Open mike 21/03/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 21st, 2016 - 148 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

148 comments on “Open mike 21/03/2016 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Whateva next? 1
    21 March 2016 at 7:13 am

    Reading about resignation of Tory Minister Iain Duncan Smith, and watching BBC interview with Andrew Marr, well I never, could this be a sign that we have reached peak Crosby Textor, greedy elitist politics?
    Cannot see any one in National government having the guts to stand against Key…..except maybe Collins, and that would be greed, not guts.

    • ScottGN 1.1
      21 March 2016 at 8:09 am

      Maybe we have. Don’t forget Crosby was dispatched by the gang to Ottawa late last year to try and save Harper’s sorry old arse and failed miserably in that endeavour.

    • Skinny 1.2
      21 March 2016 at 9:28 am

      “Cannot see any one in National government having the guts to stand against Key…..except maybe Collins, and that would be greed, not guts.”

      I can not see the old guard permitting Judith Collins to become Leader.

      Too much of a liability given the business activities of her husband Mr Wong-Tung i.e Oravida and the murky goings on Milk-Swamp Kauri-Bottled Water, especially Swamp kauri which there has been a reputed $200 million dollars worth of illegal activities. While there is no proof of any wrong doings by Oravida, there has been plenty of noise in the media. Tarred by association I guess one may say.

  2. Pascals Bookie 2
    21 March 2016 at 7:39 am

    Assad -Putin fans got any comments about the images coming out of Daraya?

    eg

    https://twitter.com/ward_alyafe/status/711328608665600002#tweet_711328608665600002

    If you support that, you sure as shit better not have had anything bad to say about Fallujah.

    • Agora 2.1
      21 March 2016 at 8:11 am

      Anyone can post an image like that without date stamp, co-ordinates, or verifiable attribution. The internet is one huge information bubble. Bubbles have a tendency to pop.

      • Pascals Bookie 2.1.1
        21 March 2016 at 8:34 am

        Well he’s right there on the internet if you wish to directly call him a liar. Post the link so we can see how you get on.

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2
          21 March 2016 at 1:37 pm

          PB: Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar – with help from the US – supplied foreign fighters in Syria with both money and heavy and advanced weapons.

          As part of a regime change attempt to depose Assad’s secular government and replace it with Islamist/Jihadi rule.

          Not going to happen now.

          • Pascals bookie 2.1.1.2.1
            21 March 2016 at 1:43 pm

            See, doesn’t he sound just like one of those little Pro-Israel propaganda commenters that swarm onto threads when Palestine is discussed?

            At least they get paid.

            • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2.1.1
              21 March 2016 at 1:48 pm

              Wikileaks have helped open a window on this matter, PB:

              WikiLeaks Reveals How the US Aggressively Pursued Regime Change in Syria, Igniting a Bloodbath

              The cables gave the public a recent window into the strategies and motivations of US officials as they expressed them to each other, not as they usually expressed them to the public. In the case of Syria, the cables show that regime change had been a long-standing goal of US policy; that the US promoted sectarianism in support of its regime-change policy, thus helping lay the foundation for the sectarian civil war and massive bloodshed that we see in Syria today; that key components of the Bush administration’s regime-change policy remained in place even as the Obama administration moved publicly toward a policy of engagement; and that the US government was much more interested in the Syrian government’s foreign policy, particularly its relationship with Iran, than in human rights inside Syria.

              A December 13, 2006 cable, “Influencing the SARG [Syrian government] in the End of 2006,”1 indicates that, as far back as 2006 – five years before “Arab Spring” protests in Syria – destabilizing the Syrian government was a central motivation of US policy. The author of the cable was William Roebuck, at the time chargé d’affaires at the US embassy in Damascus. The cable outlines strategies for destabilizing the Syrian government.

              http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath

              • Pascals bookie …
                21 March 2016 at 1:59 pm

                What matter.

                Everyone knows about that cable, ffs.

                Millions of cables are produced, they are not ‘plans’.

                BUt what has that got to do with the warcrimes committed by Assad and Russia? Di they justify it?

                Did the US create the protests?

                Did the US force Assad to respond as he did?

                Did the US force assad to support islamist insurgents during the Iraq occupation?

                None of this is relevent. That cable does not justify what Assad has done, and what you support.

                the fact you front page on this site with thie crap you do, and your support for war crimes, will make it that much harder for us to oppose NZ involvement on whatever the next US president dreams up.

                Your complete failure to condemn war crimes has finally made my mind up to abandon this blog.

                I’m out.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  21 March 2016 at 2:45 pm

                  Sorry to hear that. Just one of your comments is worth more than some people’s entire output.

                  • McFlock …
                    21 March 2016 at 2:54 pm

                    +1

                  • miravox …
                    21 March 2016 at 8:23 pm

                    +1

                    Sorry to read that Pb. Please reconsider.

                    I’ve gotta say, that when I wander into central Vienna in the weekends the Syrians standing silently with their flags, banners, leaflets and their stories and photos of horrific war crimes are condemning Assad, not the US.

                    Assad is willing to destroy his country and his people (and clearly he does believe he owns them).

                    He is a dictator of the worst order.

                    Russia is not acting as peacemaker, but to to protect its own strategic interests (Russia’s interests are obviously best served by peace – and that means Assad in control until an acceptable transition is in place). This does not make Assad or Putin the nice guys.

                    Actually every photo I’ve seen of Putin shaking Assad’s hand, Putin looks as if he wants to vomit.

                  • Anne …
                    21 March 2016 at 8:38 pm

                    +100
                    When the rest of us are getting ourselves tied up in knots, along comes Pb and sorts us out. Not only have we seen some good authors disappear, we are losing our best commenters and Pb was up there near the top with felix. Very sad.

                • McFlock …
                  21 March 2016 at 2:54 pm

                  Bugger.
                  Hope you come back some time.

                • Acting up …
                  21 March 2016 at 7:43 pm

                  PB, don’t bail buddy – I have always appreciated your contributions to debate.

                  • The lost sheep …
                    21 March 2016 at 10:24 pm

                    Yet another alienated intelligent voice…

                    That’s all good eh?
                    If PB doesn’t like what happens here he knows where the door is?

                    Nothing wrong with the format or policy then?
                    Nothing worth discussing. Let’s just move into tomorrow with the newly reduced gene pool.

                    oh. Sarc.

              • Chooky …
                21 March 2016 at 4:45 pm

                +100 CV..it is quite clear USA and friends ( Israel and Saudi Arabia) want Assad out and Syria destabilised …so they can subdivide it up for themselves

                Russia went into the conflict at the behest of Assad the democratically elected leader ( unlike USA and friends)

                http://journal-neo.org/2015/12/20/bashar-al-assad-the-democratically-elected-president-of-syria/

                http://217.218.67.231/Detail/2015/09/30/431381/Syria-Russia-air-force-President-Assad-

            • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2.1.2
              21 March 2016 at 3:05 pm

              From the link above, the memo makes it quite clear that the US had made a detailed analysis on how to destroy Syria as a country.

              And the intervening years show that at least some of these plans were successfully actioned against the Syrian people.

              This cable shows that, in December 2006, the top US diplo mat in Syria believed that the goal of US policy in Syria should be to destabilize the Syrian government by any means available; that the US should work to increase Sunni-Shia sectarianism in Syria, including by aiding the dissemination of false fears about Shia proselytizing and stoking resentment about Iranian business activity and mosque construction; that the US should press Arab allies to give access in the media they control to a former Syrian official calling for the ouster of the Syrian government; that the US should try to strain relations between the Syrian government and other Arab governments, and then blame Syria for the strain; that the US should seek to stoke Syrian government fears of coup plots in order to provoke the Syrian government to overreact; that if the Syrian government reacted to external provocations, it proved that the regime was paranoid; that the US should work to undermine Syrian economic reforms and discourage foreign investment; that the US should seek to foster the belief that the Syrian government was not legitimate; that violent protests in Syria were praiseworthy and exemplary; that if Syria is the victim of terrorism and tries to do something about it, the US should exploit that to say that the Syrian government is weak and unstable, and is experiencing blowback for its foreign policy.

    • gez the rev 2.2
      21 March 2016 at 9:16 am

      looks like most of the countries America “visits”

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3
      21 March 2016 at 9:19 am

      Images tell us nothing. We need history, actions and reactions.

      And, no, I’m not a supporter of Assad/Putin. Although in Assad’s case he is the legitimate ruler of Syria and that’s solely a decision of the Syrians via democracy.

      What we see in Syria today seems to be a result of the actions of the US in their attempts to forcefully remove Assad via proxies.

    • Pascals Bookie 2.4
      21 March 2016 at 11:40 am

      ok, so the general consensus is that y’all need more info.

      Google can be your friend on that I guess.

      However, how about, just for the sake of argument, we assume that areas of Daraya have been hit as hard as that photo suggests. Would your opinions change re Assad and Russia and the legitimacy of what is happening?

      What is depressing me, friends, is the clear double standard being displayed on this blog of late.

      If that photo was from Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Yemen, how many of you can hand on heart say you would be reacting to it in the same way, and giving the US the benefit of doubt before having something to say?

      Really.

  3. RedLogix 3
    21 March 2016 at 8:03 am

    Last weekend we were in Mildura. Walked into the info centre, “What’s it like out there?” asks a pleasant woman behind the desk. “About 36 deg” we tell her. “Oh that’s a relief she says, come right down from 46 deg last week!”

    THE HEAT IS ON
    Maximum temperature at least 4C above average, from March 1 to 4
    Temps 8 to 12C above average for most of southeast Australia
    Record 39 straight days over 26C in Sydney
    Perth had more 40C days this summer than ever before
    Melbourne had hottest March night on record, at peak of 38.6C
    Canberra had 10 straight days of 30C or more
    Echuca, VIC, and Tocumwal, NSW, sweltered through eight straight days of 38C or more in March, breaking records for any month of the year
    Temperature records shattered around the world, with this January and February hotter than any other.
    (Source: Climate Council)

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/record-temperatures-for-march-a-warning-of-whats-to-come-say-experts-20160320-gnmkc9.html#ixzz43TIBkjhx
    Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

    • TC 3.1
      21 March 2016 at 10:49 am

      Yup those inland areas are frying, how long before its too hot to sustain the crops that drive them like citrus, grapes etc.

      I thought the murray down around albury, echuca etc were bad enough 20 years but mates still there are looking at tassie now as its simply too hot now.

      • RedLogix 3.1.1
        21 March 2016 at 11:22 am

        It’s the high night time temps that are the killer. When it’s midnight and still > 30 degC for days on end, or it’s still > 26 degC at 6am you just don’t get any respite or proper sleep. After 4 -5 nights I’m definitely starting to lose the plot.

        Aircon becomes mandatory. Which of course only makes the root cause worse.

        Still it’s amazing how much water they can keep pumping out of the Murray; the place was the most green I’ve seen over here in ages. The big new crop in the past few years is almonds. Endless km of them.

        • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1
          21 March 2016 at 8:51 pm

          When it’s midnight and still > 30 degC for days on end, or it’s still > 26 degC at 6am you just don’t get any respite or proper sleep.

          Got up the other morning and it was still 19 C. Cooler than it has been but still bloody warm for that time even for summer.

          And yeah, temperatures made sleeping difficult over the summer months here as well.

    • Colonial Viper 3.2
      21 March 2016 at 11:15 am

      Pretty sure the Australians are going to invade NZ within the next 20 years.

      • RedLogix 3.2.1
        21 March 2016 at 11:26 am

        In many ways we really like it over here. Not hiding from some of the downsides, but the positives are worth embracing and celebrating.

        But this sort of thing does prompt me to keep the Plan B option of coming back home very much alive.

      • Sacha 3.2.2
        21 March 2016 at 1:55 pm

        “Pretty sure the Australians are going to invade NZ within the next 20 years.”

        Why bother invading when we are willingly selling the country to them, piece by piece?

    • Rosie 3.3
      21 March 2016 at 11:42 am

      Those temps are unsustainably insane. Will have put the unwell and elderly at risk of death associated with heat stroke too.

      • paaparakauta 3.3.1
        21 March 2016 at 1:04 pm

        When you have seen the horizon blacked out by bushfire on an annual basis you take climate change seriously.

      • alwyn 3.3.2
        21 March 2016 at 6:06 pm

        Believe it or not but that sort of temperature in Mildura really isn’t that bad.
        The very high temperatures in Victoria are associated with very, very low humidity.
        The wind just comes south across Australia, getting hotter and hotter, but drier and drier as it does so.
        I am not saying it is pleasant but 46C in Mildura is easier to tolerate than 34C in Singapore or 38+C in Sydney. That is my opinion of course but I have experienced them all. The hard part is 30+C at night. You can’t sleep.

  4. Janice 4
    21 March 2016 at 8:47 am

    So Nick Smith has made yet another FU with his Kermadec marine reserve. I really can’t think of anything this professional trougher has achieved in his decades on an MPs salary.

    • Bearded Git 4.1
      21 March 2016 at 9:07 am

      Yep Smith is hopeless. Total lack of consultation on the end to fishing rights for Maori in the proposed marine reserve-off to Court they go.

      Loved Key on Morning Report this morning saying that the Kermadec’s haven’t been fished for over 10 years. Then the Maori guy comes on and says they fish there every year. Another lie for the Blip list.

      When is the Maori Party going to realise that the Gnats are riding roughshod over their rights?

      • kieron 4.1.1
        21 March 2016 at 9:28 am

        Nats get marine reserve then it’s open slather for commercial (non-maori) vessels to come in and fish the hell out of the area after bypassing maori rights

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2
        21 March 2016 at 9:34 am

        Yep Smith is hopeless. Total lack of consultation on the end to fishing rights for Maori in the proposed marine reserve-off to Court they go.

        Māori didn’t have any fishing rights there as they never settled the Kermadecs and thus it doesn’t come under Ti Tiriti. Can’t be considered traditional.

        • Bearded Git 4.1.2.1
          21 March 2016 at 9:57 am

          Thanks Draco-noted.

        • Molly 4.1.2.2
          21 March 2016 at 11:28 am

          From admitted limited personal knowledge, I understood that māori land rights were more than the rights of residence.

          Particular land rights could be issued for different uses. ie. one tribe might have seasonal fishing rights, while another had the right of residence or agriculture.

          There are many tribes that had seasonal visits to particular locations for food gathering, fishing etc.

          Just because it was not used as a residence, does not mean that it was not used.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2.2.1
            21 March 2016 at 11:45 am

            History is that it was used as a stop on journeys by many peoples but no one settled there. If we were now to extend fishing rights to peoples who once fished there before annexation by New Zealand then we’d have to extend them to the entire Pacific. Even the US would have a reasonable claim under those conditions as their whalers once used the place as a stop as well. The sanctuary would never come into being.

            Personally, I’m more in favour of the sanctuary than trying to find out if anyone once fished there.

            Simple fact of the matter is that no one claimed the Kermadecs in any way until the British did during WWI which was then subsequently transferred over to NZ thus it was not part of the promises made in Ti Tiriti.

            • weka 4.1.2.2.1.1
              21 March 2016 at 12:06 pm

              I agree a sanctuary is very important.

              Lots of places in NZ had no permanent settlement but were still part of local Iwi and Hapū’s rohe. Many places were lived at seasonally rather than settled. I don’t think lack of settlement is relevant. There is also an issue of what rights Māori have in decision making beyond traditional use.

              As always the MSM doesn’t know how to report the complexities of issues that involve Māoridom. To be informed we would need to know what the fisheries trust objections are (they appear to be around lack of consulation), and who the Iwi were that Smith is claming supported the sancturay and what their perspectives are. Is that clear yet? I only read the article linked yesterday.

              I also don’t trust National on this.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                21 March 2016 at 12:27 pm

                Lots of places in NZ had no permanent settlement but were still part of local Iwi and Hapū’s rohe.

                The Kermadecs weren’t part of NZ until 1918. This is actually important as they’re making a Ti Tiriti claim.

                The point is that no one claimed them but many people used them. Usually as a source of food/water on their journeys from A to B. There are no particular rights to any particular people.

                • weka …
                  21 March 2016 at 1:01 pm

                  And New Zealand didn’t exist until the Crown established that it did. I’m asking what the Māori perspectives are, and those are independent of the State or Eurocentric ideas about claims and entitlement.

                  edited.

            • Pascals bookie 4.1.2.2.1.2
              21 March 2016 at 12:08 pm

              I dunno mate.

              The relevant thing would be the settlement, no?

              If implied or explicit rights to fish there were included in the settlement reached for acknowledged breaches, then there is a right.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                21 March 2016 at 12:28 pm

                The Treaty settlements gave them a quota. They still have that quota.

                • maui …
                  21 March 2016 at 1:03 pm

                  Maori were given a decent slice of NZ’s existing commercial fisheries in the 90s through the Treaty. Also the Treaty gives them rights over NZ’s total fishery. I think that gives them the right to be involved in decision making where existing fisheries are to be made into sanctuaries. They may not have used the Kermadecs much in the past, but I think this is more about the present day Maori involvement.

                  • Sacha …
                    21 March 2016 at 2:02 pm

                    I agree the issue seems more about the modern govt/Maori relationship around fisheries governance than about any location-based rights.

                    Smith’s track record on respecting co-governance is shocking. No surprise whose electorate the whole foreshore and seabed debacle spread from.

                  • North …
                    21 March 2016 at 6:41 pm

                    Yes

              • Stuart Munro …
                21 March 2016 at 2:37 pm

                You might find this book interesting – settlers on the Kermadecs in 1878 – it was read to us at school 😉 http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-MorCrus.html

            • alwyn 4.1.2.2.1.3
              21 March 2016 at 6:26 pm

              ” Even the US would have a reasonable claim under those conditions”
              That reminds me of the fate of the kumara in the Waitangi Tribunal claim 262.
              Maori claimed intellectual property rights to, among other things, all kumara sold in New Zealand. Unfortunately DNA evidence submitted to the tribunal showed, according to the scientist who did the analysis.

              “The modern commercial crop was based on three cultivars: the beauregard, a recent import, the toka toka gold, a 19th-century import, and the owairaka red.
              “There is no link between commercial lines and any varieties assumed to have been present in New Zealand pre-contact,” Dr Gould said.”.

              Royalties should, one imagine be owing to people in South America from whence these came. Funny that the whole thing was rapidly dropped and the subject forgotten.
              From.
              http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10422951

    • Rosie 4.2
      21 March 2016 at 11:54 am

      Forest and Bird have been intensively lobbying the government for seven years to secure environmental protection in the Kermadec’s.

      They say it “will go down in the history of Forest and Bird as one of our greatest
      moments, the result of a seven year public campaign that will protect one of the most complex and pristine deep sea habitats left on earth”

      “This monumental decision expands the amount of marine protection in New Zealand waters from an insignificant 0.5 percent to 15 percent”

      Forest and Bird, issue 358, summer 2015 pg.8.

      Maybe best to take it up with Forest and Bird, WWF New Zealand and the Pew charitable trusts, who worked so hard on this campaign that “Nick Smith even said he was getting sick of having Forest and Bird’s postcards coming across his desk, and complimented us on a textbook campaign”

      • Saul 4.2.1
        21 March 2016 at 12:00 pm

        Don’t go all poohie on me because I rang nicky, I was bored sh*tless, I have no friends, you don’t pick up the fu*king phone. Anyway I’m not attracted to nicky, he isn’t my type.

        Julie need not worry, I’ve already told them the website will be up in June. I already have my website material – just need to brush it up a bit. Then I will save my pennies all of May. If I say I’m going to do something I will.

  6. kieron 6
    21 March 2016 at 8:51 am

    Imagine a coin, one side national, other side labour…still the same coin is it not?

    • weka 6.1
      21 March 2016 at 2:21 pm

      Imagine a coin with a fish on one side and a potato on the other. Still the one coin right?

    • kieron 6.2
      22 March 2016 at 1:23 am

      All i’m saying is that it doesn’t matter who you vote for (national or labour) you end up with the same 5-10 years down the track (they’re all bought out before the election starts), illuminati anyone?

  7. Herodotus 7
    21 March 2016 at 8:53 am

    Is this the same Fonterra that was, to stay competitive requesting from its suppliers to extend the time that they get paid, request discounts or to be paid “normally” to give a prompt payment discount.
    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11604140
    And now we get this “Forsyth Barr analyst James Bascand expects the co-operative’s normalised earnings before interest and tax to leap 83 per cent from $376 million to $687 million, and for an increased interim dividend to 18.5c from 10c, reflecting lower inputs and a big turnaround in the business.” And for many out their “normalised profits” are what many senior execs have part of their bonus calculated on.
    This defies belief, and any resemblance of being a good corporate citizen.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11608977

    • pat 7.1
      21 March 2016 at 8:58 am

      that was Fonterra when it was wearing a different hat

    • Molly 7.2
      21 March 2016 at 1:34 pm

      The short-sightedness of putting your major suppliers or services under cash-flow stress to compensate for your own flawed decision making is just more of the same.

      Have they not considered that they may be putting their own business under further stress when those necessary suppliers and service providers go to the wall?

  8. Draco T Bastard 8
    21 March 2016 at 10:10 am

    Earth to Economics: Welcome to Science 101

    I can’t help but remark on the irony of this stance. By Smith’s own account, the field of economics is experiencing an empirical revolution. Unlike the past, it has become necessary to test theories against reality. That places the field of economics many decades behind the field of evolution and numerous fields in the human social sciences that have been rigorously evidence-based all along. Earth to the economics profession: Welcome to Science 101!

    As I’ve noted for sometime now. Economics has become delusional as it’s completely divorced itself from reality.

    More trade, more consumption has been the cry of politicians and economists for more than 200 years.

    We have a failed economic system because it:
    1. Makes being rich the sole goal of economics
    2. Dismisses the fact that resources are limited
    3. Dismisses the fact that we do actually need the environment in good working order

    We need to change this and fast. Unfortunately, National and other greedy bastards are standing in the way of rational action.

    • saveNZ 8.1
      21 March 2016 at 11:10 am

      +1 Draco

    • alwyn 8.2
      21 March 2016 at 6:30 pm

      Do you actually know anything about economics and have you ever studied the subject?
      Your rant here would indicate that you haven’t and are entirely ignorant on the subject.

      • Stuart Munro 8.2.1
        21 March 2016 at 6:41 pm

        You’re not measurably better.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.2.2
        21 March 2016 at 8:45 pm

        Yes I do and yes I have. The ignorance is all on the part of the economists and politicians who still think that the economy is about money.

    • Craig H 8.3
      21 March 2016 at 8:52 pm

      I’ve studied economics, and the basic tenet of economics is allocation of scarce resources. I wish politicians remembered that from time to time…

      • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1
        21 March 2016 at 8:56 pm

        I wish that the economists would remember that.

        • alwyn 8.3.1.1
          21 March 2016 at 9:19 pm

          “allocation of scarce resources”
          That is the entire focus of the discipline.
          Every economist considers it on every topic.
          Just above you claimed “yes I do and yes I have” about learning Economics.
          Just 11 minutes later you demonstrate that, even if you may have attended some classes, you failed to learn anything.

  9. arkie 9
    21 March 2016 at 10:42 am

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/299487/wicked-campers-'overstepped-the-mark‘

    “Associate Minister of Tourism Paula Bennett said she was determined to stop a company from using sexually provocative slogans on the sides of its camper vans.”

    Now where are the anti-PC crowd calling Nanny State about this overreaction?

  10. Puckish Rogue 10
    21 March 2016 at 11:38 am

    http://www.labour.org.nz/growing_gun_use_impetus_for_reforms

    “It won’t be a witch hunt. I get the feeling that the current licensing regime works – the majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens who follow the rules – and my concern is not with recreational hunters and sporting folk, but rather the criminal element of society.”

    As long as he leaves semi-autos alone it’ll be all good but more importantly Labour could do a lot worse then to look at Stuart Nash after they suffer another embarrassing election loss

    • saveNZ 10.1
      21 March 2016 at 11:53 am

      @ Puckish Rogue National are so short on talent maybe they should recruit Stuart Nash themselves as future PM? They are a much better fit!

      Wasn’t National vowing to do a war on P crimes as part of their government? What tends to follow drugs, are guns. Surprise surprise. More P imports, more Gun imports.

      In true neoliberal style it sounds like the police resources were diverted into marijuana seizures so they could seize the owners assets rather than actually cracking down on the criminal activity of P and guns, being bought into the country. (Maybe those MAF layoffs checking imports, were not a good idea after all?)

      Another great neoliberal idea, similar to police being used to issue speeding tickets instead of solve burglaries or protect dairy owners?

      Or political harassment of Hager rather than police day jobs? Didn’t police even prosecute the messager aka du Plessis-Allan case who showed how easy guns were to get under current laws.

      • gez the rev 10.1.1
        21 March 2016 at 12:49 pm

        our immigration policy has a lot to do with the P problem, Nazis will never sort that out , so our P problem will never be sorted.

        • Tautuhi 10.1.1.1
          21 March 2016 at 3:38 pm

          Natzis bringing in triad Asian P Importers as part of its Immigration Policy?

      • Puckish Rogue 10.1.2
        21 March 2016 at 12:49 pm

        “du Plessis-Allan case who showed how easy guns were to get under current laws.”

        She didn’t use a loophole to purchase the rifle, she broke a number of laws to obtain said rifle, all she demonstrated was how easy it is to purchase a rifle if you’re prepared to break a number of laws

        How many rifles were found to have been illegally purchased in the way she demonstrated…none, she highlighted a problem that doesn’t exist

        She should have been prosecuted because she knowingly broke the law, it wasn’t bringing up a loophole and it all really does is show how feeble our firearms laws are or rather the enforcement of the laws

        A good starting point would be the strict enforcement of all laws pertaining to firearms

        • saveNZ 10.1.2.1
          21 March 2016 at 1:20 pm

          My god, criminals who break the law to acquire guns? Who would have thought?
          Since I’m boycotting TV3 never watched the show.

          • Puckish Rogue 10.1.2.1.1
            21 March 2016 at 1:39 pm

            Heres the thing though she was trying to say it was a loophole, it wasn’t it was breaking the law. To me that’s a big difference.

            I don’t blame you: boycotting TV3

        • Graeme 10.1.2.2
          21 March 2016 at 1:36 pm

          Yeah, including proper checking of documentation by dealers.

          If they’d checked the documents before they sent the gun out we wouldn’t be having this discussion and HDPA would be looking a bit sad right now.

          • Puckish Rogue 10.1.2.2.1
            21 March 2016 at 1:50 pm

            True that

            It just bugs me though that this will be used by those who’re convinced we’re in the USA that the best way to deal with this is ban all weapons or at the very least ban all MSSA weapons even though most crimes are done with normal rifles and shot guns

            • Graeme 10.1.2.2.1.1
              21 March 2016 at 3:00 pm

              And I wonder how many times the same stunt had been pulled by those of less honourable intention.

              HDPA wouldn’t have been going there with less than 80, probably more like 95% chance of success. I’m picking a pretty well trod path.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                21 March 2016 at 3:08 pm

                Have any firearms found to have been sold illegally by the method she used?

                The answer is no

                • Graeme …
                  21 March 2016 at 3:25 pm

                  Well considering we have no ability to track individual firearms in this country, and neither party to the dodgy transaction is going to incriminate themselves, hardly surprising.

                  Sorry, but it defies logic to think that HDPA and her producer sat down and looked at the form and thought “Oh, we’ll just make it up and she’ll be sweet”. They knew it would go straight through, that’s why they did it.

                  The question you need to answer is how did they know it was going to work?

                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    21 March 2016 at 4:17 pm

                    Sorry, but it defies logic to think that HDPA and her producer sat down and looked at the form and thought “Oh, we’ll just make it up and she’ll be sweet”. They knew it would go straight through, that’s why they did it

                    – Actually it doesn’t, it sounds like they had a heads from Greg O’Connor for whatever reason

    • gez the rev 10.2
      22 March 2016 at 10:33 am

      if they had any brains they would be taking all guns off farmers , the way they have treated them, we wouldn’t want one to lose it and do something crazy(not to himself, the govt of course)

  11. Puckish Rogue 11
    21 March 2016 at 11:50 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/78064003/parents-on-trial-after-death-of-son-whose-meningitis-they-treated-with-home-remedies

    An extremely sad tale and nothing the courts decide will bring the child back but hopefully, if the punishment is harsh enough, it’ll cause some dick smack parents to go to doctor earlier

    • weka 11.1
      21 March 2016 at 2:33 pm

      Are you suggesting that if a parent suspects their child has bacterial meningitis they should take it to their GP? Have you thought that through?

      • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1
        21 March 2016 at 2:51 pm

        “It did not jump out at me that he was that seriously ill,” she told court, according to the Lethbridge Herald.

        She did suggest, however, that he could have viral meningitis, and told Collet to seek medical help.

        “I think you should take him to see a doctor,” Meynders testified, according to CBC.

        – First suggestion to see a doctor

        “You need to tell the lady to take the child to emergency right away,” the naturopathic doctor, Tracey Tannis, told an employee on the phone with Collet.

        “I think you should see a medical doctor,” the employee, Lexie Vataman, relayed to Collet, according to court testimony.

        – Second suggestion to see a doctor

        By the time the Stephans drove to the naturopath to pick up the tincture a day or two later, however, Ezekiel’s body was so stiff from his illness that he couldn’t sit in his car seat, according to an interview – played in court – the couple gave to Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

        Instead, the couple put a mattress in the back of their vehicle to take him to the naturopath.

        – I’m not a doctor (obviously) but I’d suggest that if your kid is so stiff you have to put him on a mattress then you really should be taking him to hospital

        I guess I’m really suggesting that if your child is ill you take them to the doctor, if you’re child is so stiff you can’t sit them down then you take them to the hospital

        What you don’t do in a first world country is rely on placebo (homeopathy) when your child is sick

        • weka 11.1.1.1
          21 March 2016 at 5:07 pm

          My suggestion is that if you think your child has meningitis, phone your doctor and/or the hospital, don’t take your child to a waiting room full of sick, contagious and immunologically vulnerably people (unless it is an emergency). Meningitis is contagious. If you think it’s bacterial meningitis, you shouldn’t be waiting for a GP appointment, you should be acting immediately.

          They didn’t rely on placebo. I’ve read about this case elsewhere and there is a huge amount of misinformation on all sides. And assumptions being made, including ignorant ones like yours regarding homeopathy and the parents’ intentions and motivations.

          For every child that dies from this kind of mishandling of a situation (whether from neglect or ignorance) there are children that die from medical misadventure. It’s not as simple as saying take your child to a doctor. Plenty of people successfully use alternative medicine at home. You are conflating use of alternative medicine with ignorance around risk assessment and action.

          • McFlock 11.1.1.1.1
            21 March 2016 at 5:21 pm

            When the naturopath says take the child to a doctor, take the child to a doctor.

            As for your claimed 1:1 ratio of medical misadventure to medical mishandling, I’m sure you’ve previously linked to a source for that figure…

            • weka 11.1.1.1.1.1
              21 March 2016 at 5:53 pm

              “When the naturopath says take the child to a doctor, take the child to a doctor.”

              Of course (although I still think it’s better not to expose a clinic full of people to meningitis).

              It’s not 1:1, it’s far worse. Look it up yourself.

              • McFlock …
                21 March 2016 at 5:57 pm

                lolright

                whatever.

                • weka …
                  21 March 2016 at 6:14 pm

                  Sweet, I’ll assume you believe that iatrogenesis is equal to or less then parental neglect via healthcare in terms of child deaths.

                  • McFlock …
                    21 March 2016 at 7:35 pm

                    You go right ahead and assume that. Apparently asking for actual evidence to support your assumptions is some sort of paradigmatic bullying by an epistemological reductionist.

                    I’m sure the distinction isn’t lost on the dead kids.

        • gez the rev 11.1.1.2
          22 March 2016 at 10:36 am

          have to agree PR (im punching myself in the head as I write)
          there are some fucked up parents around(if they were kiwis they would probably vote united)

  12. joe90 12
    21 March 2016 at 12:57 pm

    Aww, FJK missed out on the one mention he desires the most.

    How Obama Views the Men and Women Who (Also) Rule the World

    A rough guide to the president’s relationships with other leaders

    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/obama-goldberg-world-leaders/473367/?utm_source=nl__031816

    • RedLogix 13.1
      21 March 2016 at 1:52 pm

      Just spotted this myself. Part of me wonders if Turnbull hasn’t just done a Muldoon.

      With the polling numbers heading south for the Coalition, there was every reason for Turnbull to pull the pin early, but my instinct is that it could backfire badly.

      Still very interesting times over the ditch.

  15. Rosie 15
    21 March 2016 at 2:29 pm

    Over the weekend I watched this Witness documentary about the flourishing Israeli international arms trade, on Al Jazeera. It was an unsettling watch. A military “philosopher” ( as he was referred to) oozed a fascist blood lust, grinning constantly about the efficiency and skill of the IDF. Arms dealers at a trade fair sold their weapons proudly, stating they had been “tested” and that they were the best on the market – testing, meaning they had used them “successfully” on the Palestinians. The narrative of the dealers and military was purely barbaric.

    Then in a surreal parallel with our very own abuser PM, a retired IDF general who became involved in the arms trade for all its lucrative gains, filmed attending the trade show, was standing next to a female soldier, and couldn’t help but give her ponytail a violent yank, enough to pull her head back.
    It was a few seconds of footage but demonstrated how these war lords view themselves as untouchable and all powerful, with the god given right to abuse.

    The sense of entitlement that those in power can have, to do as one pleases, for their own pleasure and entertainment was quite apparent in those few seconds. While Key hasn’t quite reached the status of war lord, he does share the same level of unaccountability and sense of entitlement as anyone in a position to abuse their power. Pure creepy and sick.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/

    • Chooky 15.1
      21 March 2016 at 8:06 pm

      +100 thanks Rosie…will watch

      ….and the arms dealers are often coexistent with the drugs dealers , the other side of the coin, if not one and the same…and the mafia are involved…and it is even more scary when hidden government agencies are involved

      …democracy is a fragile thing when these forces are unleashed

  16. debatewatcher 16
    21 March 2016 at 2:49 pm

    Article on the establishment’s approach new Alternative for Germany party, with reference to the Left Party and the relationship with the Social Democrats (Germany’s Labour Party equivalent):

    “The Social Democrats hate the Left Party so much (ostensibly because of its links to the old SED communist party which ruled in East Germany, but also because of personal rivalries as the Left Party grew out of a disgruntled SPD faction) that they have refused to work with it at state or federal levels.

    In 2013, this led to a further Grand Coalition at the federal level, even though the SPD-Greens-Left party had a majority in the Bundestag – graphically illustrating the depth of ill-feeling towards the Left Party.”

    http://bit.ly/25efMc4

  17. esoteric pineapples 17
    21 March 2016 at 3:12 pm

    Turkey appears to be stuffing jihadist gangs as faux refugees in one of its own state-run refugee camps (which no outside agencies have access to) in preparation for sending them to attack the Syrian Kurdish fighters. They also appear to be coercing refugee women into prostitution

    http://www.kurdishinfo.com/akp-places-jihadist-gangs-tent-camp-suruc

  18. Paul 18
    21 March 2016 at 4:40 pm

    Vodafone prepared to fund a waterfront stadium.
    I’d prefer it if they’d pay their taxes.

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11609365

    AIG sponsor the All Blacks.
    I’d prefer it if they spent their money fixing homes in Christchurch.

    No wonder so many sports players end up as out and out Tories.
    The blood money ends up poisoning them.

    • North 18.1
      21 March 2016 at 7:15 pm

      That’s my feeling Paul. Richie, Dan, blah blah blah, millionaires probably many times over. No offence to them but what’d ya expect ? Rich, white, Tory boys.

      Quite buzzes me though that League…….Kiwis and Warriors down, don’t seem to exhibit that shit. Except Old Sir Peter Mad Butcher who couple of times has sailed with salivated tongue disgracefully close to Key’s nethers……..

  19. Chooky 19
    21 March 2016 at 8:00 pm

    N. Korea launches missile towards Sea of Japan – reports

    https://www.rt.com/news/336397-north-korea-launches-missile/

  20. North 20
    21 March 2016 at 8:09 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11609120

    No comment at all on the fact/fiction balance here but we really are seeing “celeb’s” lashing back…….Hosking ‘cos someone called him an arse licker…….then we got poor Max…….then this lass……the glassing that wasn’t a glassing and three months later less chance of it ever being a glassing.

    Always knew the shallow vainglorious bastards wouldn’t give up without a fight. But the fight is there and it’s being fought out this way…….I don’t watch any 5.30-7.30 pm TV anymore. Replicated my switch-off tens, eventually hundreds of thousands of times ? What’s the advertiser think ?

    Good job really. Licking licking licking ended up quite the wrong styles didn’t it Gower, Williams, Ralston et al. I know I’ve missed some worthies but they’ll know who they are.

    • Gangnam Style 20.1
      22 March 2016 at 5:20 am

      Current themes in the MSM, trolls aimed at ‘celebrities’ (inlcuding media ‘personalities’) & ‘P houses’ – I wonder if there’s some GOVT announcement coming up. I also noticed both Stuff & Herald love ‘thought dead but coming back alive’ stories, maybe John Banks is going to be making a come back?