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Open mike 21/04/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 21st, 2013 - 142 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

142 comments on “Open mike 21/04/2013 ”

  1. This week has been Labour’s best week in a long, long time. Between a movement left against neoliberalism, and achieving (slightly) improved conditions for workers through the mondayising of Anzac day and Waitangi day and Louisa Wall’s wonderful achievement of Marriage equality they achieved a great deal.

    National gives the impression of being on the ropes with the Dotcom and other fiascos and you get the feeling that Key’s reputation is finally being tarnished. And although one poll does not a summer make the latest Roy Morgan suggests that things are finally improving.

    • karol 1.1

      It was a good week for Labour-Green. Without the Green support, NZ Power would have had less impact. Some very good Green support for the marriage bill: especially liked Mojo Mather’s speech.

      And the polls are promoting the possibility of a Labour-Green government.

    • Tim 1.2

      Aye! And there are one or two Plunkets who’ve had their wet little fingers in the air testing which way the most popular wind is blowing. I think they detect a change. Hopefully there’ll be morA.

      • Rosie 1.2.1

        This change in the wind. Sensed as a slight and new fluttery movement in the air. Can we say its finally come? Can we begin to hope again?

    • veutoviper 1.3

      Agreed re Labour (and the Greens) but I just hope that Labour – or rather certain Caucus members – don’t mess it up as has happened on too many previous occasions by shotting themselves and Labour in the foot.

      IIRC both the TVNZ and TV3 polls are due out today, so here’s hoping the Roy Morgan results are reflected in these.

      Just to add to Key’s week, he has been included in BuzzFeed’s selection of the “15 Most Ridiculous World Leaders Of All Time” for his three way handshake.



      • Jenny 1.3.1

        This change in the wind. Sensed as a slight and new fluttery movement in the air. Can we say its finally come?…


        The news that the Green Party are to host an all party conference on climate change is another sign that we may be witnessing a sea change in New Zealand politics. From conservative and timid to more left and bold.

        This sea change in politics may not be limited to just New Zealand.

        A sample poll of American Republican Party members carried out by George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, revealed that most conservative voters want action on Climate Change.


        Only 52 per cent thought climate change was happening, but 62 per cent said the US should take steps to address the issue – suggesting that even some who are unsure about climate change still think it’s worth responding to the potential threat. Seventy-seven per cent thought the US should use more renewable energy.

        Does this study say something for our politicians here?

        It has been accepted wisdom for some time now, that raising the issue of climate change in an election campaign is a vote killer.

        On this understanding, in 2011, an unspoken gentleman’s agreement made sure that climate change, was not made an election issue by any of the contending parties standing for parliament.

        Could this be about to change?

        Could a political party that made climate change an election plank, with a campaign demand to drastically cut Green House Gas emissions, do well in the polls?

        Going on the US poll it is possible. Times have moved on, the signals are stronger and public awareness is greater.

        Whatever the resulting fortunes, for individual parties, we need to hold this debate. Every election we put it off, means one more term of the government cycle without a mandate to act.

  2. Dv 2

    Polling company rang us Reed?.

    Interestingly one of the questions was do you think Key is a liar!!!

    • Te Reo Putake 2.1

      Crikey! Was there a 1-10 option (say 1 being Lance Armstrong, 10 being Goebbels)?

      • Dv 2.1.1

        My wife answer and I think it was Yes or No only.

        • Alanz

          The government is fast rotting from the head down.
          Blatant lies and dissembling are right in our faces from John Key, John Banks, Tony Ryall, Paula Bennett, Judith Collins to Susan Devoy.

    • Reid Research do TV3’s polling and a poll is expected to be released tonight.

      Hmmm …

      A bad result will have them scurrying to renew the Crosby Textor contract quick as …

    • Jenny 2.3

      Interestingly one of the questions was do you think Key is a liar!!!


      Certainly a revealing departure from the usual bog standard sans-political, political poll questionnaires;


      “Who is your preferred Prime Minister”,

      “If an election was held tomorrow. Who would you vote for?”

      etc, etc.

      That such a question is being asked, shows that the government must be worried about their image. After all, that is all they have. When will we ever get a poll that actually asks about policy?

      What I would like to see a poll where there is a polling question that asked;

      “Would you vote for a party that advocated:

      (a) No action against climate change

      (b) Moderate action against climate change

      (c) Extreme, or possibly extreme actions against climate change?”

      • Dv 2.3.1

        Oops Sorry. Not as blunt as that.
        Do politician suffer from brain fade.
        I made the wrong interpretation from my discussion with her!!!

  3. karol 3

    The Slate, on why we should be worried the captured Boston (alleged) bomber is not being read his Miranda rights.

  4. David H 5

    Watching Q+A and the on panel is Heather Roy, Army Reservist???? FFS how is that relevant? apart from the Army stories on the show.

    • Belligerent idiotic opinions have just as much right to be broadcast as thought through informed opinions …

    • Rosie 5.2

      Oh God, Heather Roy. The Army Reservist buzz was something that she used to promote her “I won’t take any nonsense” tough commando girl image back in the day. It seems that militancy is a theme that right wingers are fond of. Think of those right wing extremist that are also survivalist nuts. Kyle Chapman springs to mind. They think that authoritarianism is the way to solve the worlds woes.

    • ghostrider888 5.3

      ANZAC Day approaching.

  5. Red Rosa 6

    National education policy in a total shambles.


    Touting dodgy charter schools, pouring money into elite private schools, while they can’t even ensure their state schools are open for the required time!

    • Tony P 6.1

      As a teacher this article annoys me. Obviously published at the beginning of the school holidays to generate more anti feeling towards teachers and imply that they are having even more time off. The facts are shoddy-I don’t know of any school that would have closed just for a meeting about Novopay. Under our collective agreement we are allowed to have 2 Paid Union Meetings a year and the one just taken was to discuss and be informed about our negotiations which have been ongoing since August last year and don’t seem to be progressing much. The parents interviewed seemed more upset that their children had to be looked after for a day rather than being concerned that the children were missing out on learning, showing that some look on school as a baby sitting service.

      • ianmac 6.1.1

        That article must have been written by a 10 year old. What a mess. I think this is the first time that Easter has fallen outside the term holiday. That would be easy to miss but easy to adjust. A pity Private Schools were not subject to the minimum number of days. They can start finish whenever they like.

  6. Morrissey 8

    “Security is not really a problem any more.”
    The NZ Army has made Bamiyan safe—according to the NZ Army

    Radio NZ National, Insight, Sunday 21 April 2013.
    Presented by Belinda McCammon

    There’s a brilliant scene in the TV series Friday Night Lights, where young Matt Saracen is talking with his dad, who’s just come back from Iraq.
    MATT SARACEN: How are things going over there?
    HIS FATHER: [long, uncomfortable pause]Great. We’re building schools, fixing roads….

    This is followed by a long long pause, as father and son acknowledge the unspoken truth behind the pat, formulaic lie.

    I was reminded of that superb piece of television when I listened to Insight this morning. New Zealand is finally pulling out of its unwise, unhappy, shameful decade-long involvement in the occupation of Afghanistan. To finally get shot of it, the government sent over the Governor-General, the Minister of Defence and some compliant reporters, on this occasion required to fill the role of public relations people. One of those reporter/PR flacks was Belinda McCammon….

    The mission to Afghanistan gets off to a very poor start with the planeload of New Zealand dignitaries stranded on the tarmac, unable to leave the plane because of “security concerns.”

    Once they do get off the plane and into the heavily fortified New Zealand compound, the interviews are almost comical in their evasion of reality….

    BELINDA McCAMMON: So is Bamiyan province making progress?
    COMMANDER SHOLTO STEPHENS: Oh, definitely. Around this area there were several documented massacres of Hazara people by the Taliban. They now have good governance, security and sealed roads. So that’s three major ticks that they’ve got. Don’t try to tell them that the New Zealand involvement hasn’t been a success!

    One voice above all others is almost sublime in its glibness and hypocrisy….

    JONATHAN COLEMAN: We’ve done a lot to get rid of corruption. There’s still a need to build up institutions, like the public service. There’s lots we can be proud of.

    But all the assurances and and all of the spin has obviously not convinced Belinda McCammon. She is a lot brighter and less biddable than other officially approved “journalists” who have been sent over there. She actually has the courage to undermine the words of Coleman and Commander Stephens….

    BELINDA McCAMMON: But it’s hard to escape the feeling of uncertainty.

    Then it’s back to the bullshit from the army spin merchants….

    ARMY SPOKESMAN: The atmosphere here is benign. We are reasonably confident that the local security forces can manage the situation.

    This is promptly undermined by radio time pips, and recordings of a recent news broadcast: “The Minister of Defence says that reality has come home to New Zealand troops in Afghanistan, after two New Zealand soldiers were killed overnight….”

    And then another one: “New Zealand has lost three more soldiers, just a few days after the deaths of two of their colleagues in Bamiyan….”

    Cut to a ceremony unveiling a memorial to New Zealanders who have died in Bamiyan. Belinda McCammon notes that the locals all have their faces covered. Obviously they do not share the bounding optimism of Jonathan Coleman and Sholto Stephens.

    Somebody from the New Zealand Embassy vapors enthusiastically: “There’s a general air of prosperity here, you know. There’s endless possibility out there… a great WORLD of opportunity out there…President Karzai remarked to us over lunch that the GDP per capita has increased TEN-FOLD over the last ten years and I like to think we have played our part in that.”

    Then we hear the Governor-General, Sir Jerry Mateparae, talking platitudinous nonsense as always: “Many challenges remain for Bamiyan and Afghanistan…The seeds we have sown together…”

    There are 29 interpreters, plus their families, coming to live in New Zealand. The young interpreter who spoke to Belinda McCammon obviously does not believe any of the talk about Afghanistan being safer. He wants to get out as fast as possible.

    Some pompous nonsense by Lt. Gen. Rhys Jones, and some sober analysis by Robert Ayson from Victoria University.

    Final “analysis” is by the ever-positive Commander Sholto Stephens. “The locals have got a good grasp of the security situation,” he states, still maintaining that diligent air of high seriousness. “In fact,” he goes on, “security is not really a problem any more.” (Perhaps he’d forgotten that planeload of New Zealanders too afraid to even leave the plane at the airport.) The fact is, continues Commander Stevens, Afghanistan is simply engulfed by crime, which makes it no different to other places around the world.

    So there we have it. According to the New Zealand Defence Force, all the crime and all the killings are a POSITIVE SIGN. Things are getting better! Every killing, every bombing, every standover, every act of extortion is a step to true liberation!


    There was not a mention of the shameful episodes of New Zealand soldiers being browbeaten by American goons into breaking the law and handing over captive civilians to possible torture and summary execution. Of course, there is one respected and knowledgeable New Zealand journalist in Afghanistan: Jon Stephenson. He was not even mentioned, let alone interviewed. Instead we got to hear the rigorously on-message voices of Jonathan Coleman, Lt. Gen. Rhys Jones, Sholto Stephens, a vapid diplomat, and the Governor-General.

    Belinda McCammon, or her editors, did a splendid job of undermining these official lies by playing those radio news broadcasts straight after the lies; however, an assessment of New Zealand’s foreign policy requires robust and rigorous analysis, not ironic counterpointing. Irony is the resort of the weak, the fearful and the heavily censored. We need honest and forthright journalism. Belinda McCammon did a good job, but she is no Jon Stephenson.

    Here’s a more honest assessment of the situation in Bamiyan….

    And here’s why the Governor-General could be looking at a date with the International Criminal Court….

    • Paul 8.1

      There’s a documentary on Wednesday evening on Maori T.V. at 8.30 p.m. that ‘challenges New Zealand’s Role in Afghanistan.’ It’s called ‘He Toki Huna: New Zealand in Afghanistan’.

  7. Clockie 9

    Check out this rather sweet slap-down of a notable academic justification for austerity programmes. Very nice I thought.


    • North 9.1

      Rather sweet slap-down Clockie ? You are an admirably calm fulla aren’t you ?

      Magnificent, bloody magnificent I’d call it !

      Thank you so, so much for the link.

      Note the first of 253 comments at the foot of the article from one Glebec.

      Just how much of the TINOW justification for austerity derives from negligence, clay feet, wilful fraud, variously ?

      • Clockie 9.1.1

        Glad to know it’s not just me who felt a warm glow reading that one North :). I received the link from my politically and environmentally active twenty year old daughter this morning and after quickly reading it thought, that’s my girl! I would have been more effusive and enthusiastic in my recommendation but reined myself in and went for dignified endorsement instead..

        I was on brunch cooking duties this morning so I haven’t had a chance to trawl through the comments. I’ll have that pleasure this afternoon.

        • Colonial Viper

          That grad student is from U Mass Amhurst. Which happens to be where the USA’s leading Marxian economist, RD Wolff, is emeritus professor 🙂


          • Clockie

            I guess the Right will attempt to tar the lot of them with the “commie academic” label. I was reading an article somewhere recently about a British born Marxian economist (can’t recall the name dammit) who has been teaching courses on Das Kapital since he arrived in the USA back in the sixties. Sounded fascinating but I doubt if I possess the intellectual heft to read and follow fellas like that.

            • ghostrider888

              don’t put your self down (plenty of people on the right of the political speculum to do that for you).

              • Clockie

                I know I’m not a total moron but neither am I a practised intellectual, so, just being realistic really :). Here is the guy I was trying to remember:


                He’s a social theorist rather than an economist but I guess in some ways the difference between those two things is, well, academic really. 🙂

                There is a series of talks and interviews featuring him on you tube;


                which I dipped into one day. Very interesting guy.

                Sorry, I’m a mechanical guy not digi-tech enough to know how to fix that link.

                • ghostrider888

                  Clockie: will be sourcing some David Harvey in book form (so many books, so little time) I was, as many know, a diesel / truck mechanic before I went mad and took up gardening and fear of the Lord 😀

                • Draco T Bastard

                  He’s a social theorist rather than an economist but I guess in some ways the difference between those two things is, well, academic really.

                  The difference is that the economists are far lesser people as they’ve forgotten or purposefully dropped the fact that economics used to be part of philosophy. They forgotten the should part of economics.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Also they’ve created an economic theory which doesn’t involve people and their social wellbeing in the least.

                • rosy

                  Heh. David Harvey is a Geographer. I had a fair few of his readings in my Human Geography classes. I didn’t have the intellectual heft to fully understand him either. Heavy writing. I’m glad he started making videos, they’re so much easier to understand so I stick with those unless I need the detail.

                  “He’s a social theorist rather than an economist but I guess in some ways the difference between those two things is, well, academic really.”

                  Imo the difference between a Human Geographer and an Economist is that the Geographer will take on any theoretical perspective that suits what they’re investigating – the scroungers of the academic world 😉 – and incorporate society, environment, economy and whatever else is needed to get a full picture of the research in question. It means they’re good academic and research collaborators. Human Geography went through the ‘lets be a science’ bent and came through it. Economists are still stuck in a reductionist mode, discarding any societal or environmental intrusion in their purist models.

                  It made it quite difficult to reconcile the two views as an undergrad studying both, so I stuck with geography, it made much more sense to me.

                  • ghostrider888

                    really enjoyed this comment rosy; hope that you get the feedback

                  • karol

                    Yes, I do like some of the developments in Human Geography over the last couple of decades.

                    I have been into David Harvey since I read his “Condition of Postmodernity”. I think he focuses a lot on urban geography.

                    His book “A Brief History of Neoliberalism” is my main reference point for my thinking on “neoliberalism”.

                    • ghostrider888

                      what led you to yesterdays OM, or do you rely on an RSS feed?

                    • rosy

                      Thanks Ghost, pleased you enjoyed it. It’s unusual to have an opportunity to put in a word for Human Geography.

                      Karol, Social Justice and the City was my introduction to Harvey. It really hard work for me to understand the concepts because I had begun university years after leaving school at 15 and with no qualifications. I felt that book pretty much marked the end of Geography’s ‘scientific’ project, and gave me the sense I could take more of a holistic view of a topic than I otherwise would have.

            • Draco T Bastard

              Sounded fascinating but I doubt if I possess the intellectual heft to read and follow fellas like that.

              Just do what Harvey himself did – re-read it. He didn’t get it the first time either.

    • emergency mike 9.2

      Ha, guy with the ability to add a row of numbers together disproves theoretical pillar of austerity economics.

      • Clockie 9.2.1

        Also, I think someone has posted this link:

        before, but it’s so good it bears being brought to the fore again.

  8. Colonial Viper 10

    Moment of the Waco fertiliser plant explosion. Ouch. And notice how light travels faster than an atmosphere propagated shockwave.

  9. North 11

    Lovely to see Joyce on Q + A mouthing ” these (‘communist’) clowns……. ” as he tried to dismiss Parker.

    Lovely because if that’s how National intends to counter (1) the smack to the head which Labour/Greens have delivered re electricity and (2) a seeming trend towards dissatisfaction generally, a great bunch of the public are going to hoot and say – ” So those clowns are calling everyone else clowns now……..What ? What ? ”

    Additionally, significant numbers will identify and be repelled by the disgustingly arrogant look of it – ” Now don’t you worry about it you (dumb) people. Take it from us…….they’re just clowns “. Wanking on about North Korea and Albania and Chavez and communism is only gonna make National look more desperately bullshitty.

    This is not 1975. Dancing Cossacks was a stunt which will not work today. Why ? Because in ’75 the Cold War spectre was Kiwis’ property being forcibly appropriated by the government into the hands of the government, a la communism. Today the Global Bankers’ Bonuses spectre is Kiwis’ property being forcibly appropriated by the government into the hands of fifty times millionaires and their foreign buddies. And this as the people get inexorably poorer and the already fabulously wealthy get inexorably richer.

    So this government is left to deal in some other way with the incompetent clown equation already more or less set in stone: Key – “I don’t have a clue smirk smirk……..”, ” I don’t recall……..oh hang on, yes I do………as you were, I do, but differently “. Parata. My God who doubts it ? The dodgy Banks. Key put him there over a cuppa. He’s still there because Key won’t read official reports. The list goes on.

    To the Gosman and the Chris73 and the King Kong and the BM and others – perceptions boys and girls. Perceptions. Your snorting arrogance has blinded you to the fact that perceptions cut both ways. And to the fact that lies and corruption while not capitalised quite yet are certainly in the frame. Simply, the public at large are not like your greedy hardcore neo-liberals or your snotty wee wannabee John Key cargo-cultists. The public smells the whiff of bullshit once, then twice, then again and again – Whanganui-like hoha at the cumulation of repeated whiffs producing stench. Add arrogance. As above – “What ?……What ?”

    Can Gosman’s Mum please update her report that he/she was last seen in his/her room crying inconsolably ? Mum, you need to be warned. There’s a poll out tonight which apparently asks the question – ” Is John Key a liar ? “. Mum, there’s an 0800 number you can have.

    • Alanz 11.1

      Taxpayers are paying Cabinet Ministers their high salaries and want to see value for money; taxpayers expect them to govern for us and to do a lot more than abuse great policy ideas on prime time television.

      Meanwhile, the power bosses should be coming out and be really strident – a lot more vocally nasty, given their obscene remunerations are being put at risk:


    • ianmac 11.2

      And even if you did consider buying shares in MRP there may be a problem in getting advice as Rod Oram found.
      “Professional advice on Mighty River Power is highly elusive. ”

      • Alanz 11.2.1

        My conversations with investment advisors at social events have been that it is difficult for ‘mums and dads’ investors to get fuller information, unlike institutional investors. So Rod Oram is quite right.

        My advice to the NZ public at this stage is to think very carefully about buying the MRP shares, especially if there are other investment options.

        Looks like John Key is lining up mums and dads to be screwed.

        With the general trend towards a new normal, the power market, taken together with the domestic and international economic climate, do not bode so well.

    • BM 11.3

      Funny thing is, if labour and the melons form the next government, I’d make a ton more money under them than what I’d do under National.

      By the time the next election rolls around I should be making basically all my money overseas
      With the dollar collapsed and all the wealth fleeing off shore, my money will be safe overseas gaining in value while all the other poor souls suffer with job losses collapsing house prices sky rocketing food bills etc.
      I’d be amazed if they last a term and when Shearer and the rest of the communists do get the boot you won’t see a left party in government for a generation.
      In the aftermath of the economic destruction, I will bring my money back and buy up properties etc at pennies on the dollar.

      • Colonial Viper 11.3.1

        You really shouldn’t believe in the Apocolypse mate, it makes you seem like a nutter.

        Especially since the greatest capitalist nation in the world the USA has just suffered massive house price collapses, rocketing unemployment, wages deflation, and people fleeing the USD into gold and also hard productive assets.

        • BM

          See isn’t that interesting, we haven’t experienced any of that.
          I wonder why?

          As for the apocalypse comment, that’s what Normans whole economic policy is based around which is the collapse of the worlds economies due to fossil fuel depletion,he’s bet the house on it.
          The guy’s a dangerous religious zealot, he will try to disconnect NZ from the world economy and it will be a disaster.

          • Colonial Viper

            See isn’t that interesting, we haven’t experienced any of that.
            I wonder why?

            We’re a more socialist nation than the USA, with tighter regulations on our banking and financial sector.

          • Murray Olsen

            Because Australia regulates banks far more than the US and A do. That’s the only reason I can see. Or is the right answer Obama Muslim Communist Kenyan?

          • Draco T Bastard

            See isn’t that interesting, we haven’t experienced any of that.
            I wonder why?

            Probably because John Key and National hadn’t yet got round to turning us into their financial hub of the South Seas?

      • North 11.3.2

        BM – I wonder you could see your keyboard through your gales of tears. Gosman’s Mum is setting up a support group. Join it. But hang on…….all is not lost:

        Para 1 – You’d make a ton more money under labour/melons.

        There’s the answer that really attracts you BM.

        Para 2 – Your money will be offshore safe and secure, gaining in value

        You absolutely sure about that ? Don’t choose Cyprus.

        Para 2 – Collapse collapse collapse in NZ

        Because YOU would take your money out ? Thick self-centred fool you are.

        Para 3 – Shearer and the rest of the communists…….

        Well done Senator Joe McCarthy The Dancing Shitshack ! You must be 120 years old by now.

        Para 4 – “I will come back and buy up properties etc at pennies in the dollar……..”

        So you’ll be voting labour /melons then BM ?

        Nothing you’ve ever said on this blog suggests the vaguest understanding of the concept of an economic common good so of course you’ll be voting for them labour/melon communists. If what you say is correct you’d shoot yourself in the foot if you didn’t wouldn’t you ?

        I suspect the truth is this: you’ve made a bob (probably less than your blowhardish allusions imply) and you’re on this blog demanding congratulations. Don’t talk to the people on this blog BM. Without documented proof of the financial empire you’ve built you’re not likely to get the lionising and obedience you seek. Talk to Dunnokeyo. He’s got a few knighthoods left in his back pocket.

        Imagine the thrill of first-class check-in out at the airport mate………..Sir Bowel Motion !!!!

      • prism 11.3.3

        Send your requirements to all the political leaders. I am sure they will tailor their policies for your particular benefit.

      • ghostrider888 11.3.4

        sour grapes then

      • Draco T Bastard 11.3.5

        With the dollar collapsed and all the wealth fleeing off shore, my money will be safe overseas gaining in value while all the other poor souls suffer with job losses collapsing house prices sky rocketing food bills etc.

        Wow, you don’t even the delusional economic theory that you follow.

        HINT: A lower dollar will boost demand of NZ goods on the world market and so demand for workers will also increase and thus wages will rise.

        I’d be amazed if they last a term and when Shearer and the rest of the communists do get the boot you won’t see a left party in government for a generation.

        Keep dreaming – it’s National and their stooges that we won’t see in government for a generation. Same as what happened to the first Labour government.

        • muzza

          It makes no difference, in the greater scheme of things, who the government of this country is.

          We do not control our own country, and have not since 1961!

          Control was ceded earlier than that, but the 1961 IMF loans, and conditionality’s policies which came with those loans, are still playing out!

    • geoff 11.4

      Dreadful interviewing from Corin Dann, he let Joyce push him around. David Parker is terrible on TV, especially against a bully like Joyce.
      Dann should have just said, “ok so you’re telling the public that you have no solution to higher electricity prices and that they should just suck it up?”

      • ghostrider888 11.4.1

        Dann repeatedly appears to be a light-weight.

        • Alanz

          Parker is terrible but Shearer is much worse and must be kept out of sight even if the interviewer is a light-weight like Dann. Natz’ tactic would be to smoke out Shearer and then put his mumble, stumble and fumble on display.

          • Rogue Trooper

            Shearer is improving; practice makes an expert; even Joker’s can shape-shift; U seem either practiced or a quick learner yourself at this collectivity gig. 😉 Hope that you are enjoying your day and that lunch has settled.

            • Alanz

              Shearer should have been practising on tv this morning then?
              Still lots of time on this side of the let’s-give-him-another-six months.

              • ghostrider888

                “scales” lift from their eyes; Shearers assurance rises as NAct spokes people fall and foul;
                Middle Earth may be a little naive but given enough time they catch on.(crosses fingers and prays three times)

                I consistently watch the pollies presentation critically; Shearer is improving, both in the house and on the box.

                • Rogue Trooper

                  Labour are playing a more restrained game it appears, for example moderation in exposure of Cunliffe, even Robertson appears settled (at the end of the day it is the perception of the potential voters that elect parties to power) and solidarity, co-operation, appears to be cementing their progress. It is definately the tory-shill MSM they have to be careful of and the incompetence and bias of interviewers like Wood and establishment commentator fools like Edwards and Ralston (what is it about wealth and privilage that generally makes it inversely proportional to real humanity?)
                  My gardening tip of the day: take deep slow belly breaths, in through the nose 1 2 3 4 5…out 2 3 4 5, it appears that those on the right of the political spectrum are less able to put this technique into practice and defer to instinct primarily; they cannot help themselves, as a generalization. (the political polls, and analysis of such that is to be found on The Standard is far superior to any image / sound bite to be entertained by on the 6 O’Clock News ;-D

  10. ghostrider888 12

    Linking TDB posts into TS is catchy

    Salt, and Light

    16:8 Better a little with righteousness than much gain with injustice
    16:7 When a man’s ways are pleasing to the Lord, he makes even his enemies live at peace with him.

    Better to Give A Little Bit than a
    Crime Of The Century

  11. Colonial Viper 13

    Remember the days they used to leave hanged or crucified criminals or political enemies near the gateways of ancient cities to serve as visual warnings to all citizens?

    Well, they’ve just done it with a post autopsy photo of the dead, older, badly disfigured Boston Marathon bombing suspect. Screw friends, family, due process, coroners report, etc.

    Who says that the parallels between Imperial Rome and the US don’t hold?

    I saw the photo, its not nice. Following link is just a text description of the leak.


    • Rogue Trooper 13.1

      Do you subscribe to reddit or was it a ghost protocol search?

      Hows your day going?

      • Alanz 13.1.1

        assuming that picture is authentic, let’s hope that is not a symbolic cadaver of miranda caution, legal representation, and trial by jury and judge according to the laws of the land.

      • Colonial Viper 13.1.2

        Cruising along, dreary day, bright spirits, thank you kindly

    • Matt 13.2

      Who is “they”?

      If Obama – or, say, anybody – were standing in front of banners of the bullet riddled corpse then yeah, that would seem to be an apt comparison. The fact that a photo was circulated among law enforcement and leaked, in this electronic media driven world we live in, is utterly unsurprising.

      • Colonial Viper 13.2.1

        The photo sends a pretty clear signal. Did I say it was surprising? Where did I indicate surprise that officials would break their own rules and circulate images like this?

        • Matt

          The photo sends a pretty clear signal that there are no secrets any more.

          For God’s sake it isn’t even front page on Reddit, how much of a warning could it be? And by tomorrow no one will remember anyway, because Taylor Swift is going to wear something really interesting. Lighten up!

          • Colonial Viper

            I had hoped you would take the actions of law enforcement and government officials more seriously.

            • Matt

              Oh, you’d be unhappy about anything less than a full embrace of your empire-conspiracy-fetish narrative.

              • Colonial Viper

                Evidence and documentation regarding investigations in process should not be forwarded to unauthorised persons. Especially where the dignity of otherwise unassociated friends and family members is involved.

                Is that really so hard for you to understand?

  12. Boston Red Sox fans and Neil Diamond.

  13. ghostrider888 15

    coincidentally, was just listening to Neil Diamond singing
    Last Thing On My Mind off the album “Stones”

  14. vto 16

    Just listening to a piece on nat radio about the constitutional review going on. A Dr Maria Barge talked about Maori representation, how it arose and what it should be, etc. She was certainly correct about most everything she said but completely missed the elephant in the room, namely whether such racial separatism is any good for a modern society. Her entire piece was predicated on the existence of the Treaty and rights that existed pre-Treaty, which is all fine and dandy, but like pretty much every commentator in this area the question of the suitability of the Treaty and any pre-existing rights is completely and utterly ignored.

    I think this is a major flaw in this area. The use of the Treaty and whether it actualy achieves what it needs to achieve today is simply not looked at. It is not discussed. It is not considered. It is like everyone just blindly goes on about the existence of the Treaty and what it contains, leading to the question f whether it has been honoured. Of course, those components are entirely legitimate. But the underlying value and quality of the Treaty is not considered and this is very poor form on our part as a country.

    If the Treaty turns out to be flawed and it is unthinkingly set in even harder stone in our constitutional arrangements then it will clearly lead to trouble.

    This subject is ignored. It is not the right approach.

    • vto 16.1

      And then dear old Geoff Palmer goes and does the exact same thing in relation to a question from the floor.

      A person asked about equality / racial separatism in the constitution. Palmer answered by saying he disagreed with the person because various rights such as aboriginal title existed before the Treaty.

      See? He missed the elephant in the room too.

      Nobody disputes that various rights such as aboriginal title existed before the Treaty, but that was not at all what the question was about. The question was about the quality, value, usefulness of those various rights (and te tiriti), not whether they exist.

      I would have thought at least Palmer would hae understood the difference. Bit disappointing.

    • ghostrider888 16.2

      ethnic / racial “trouble” is a’blowin in anyway vto; this constitutional reveiw, which is Excellently-timed, is just fueling the fire; listened to talk-back radio, read a right-wing blog lately, or the comments in The Herald?

      • vto 16.2.1

        Yes, no I don’t try to listen to or read them things, they just get depressing. But yep, unfortunately such a question as that posed does also drag in all the ugly yuckiness that throws itself up everytime such an issue arises.

        I was kind of hoping that the clear air in such a forum as that on nat radio may have allowed some space to discuss the issue, particularly as it is about constitutional arrangememts in the future. It is about the most appropriate place ever for the issue to be well aired and considered – yet to date it is missing.

        • ghostrider888

          yes. one does have to have a strong constitution to be a witness to these times; still, nothing to be achieved by looking away; at least at The Standard many are on the same page literally, if not actually 😀

  15. Jokerman 17

    comment 101, or not…
    Calling All Angels
    (thanks for the guidance re a desktop folks, felix, Al1en, Lanth. DoSs, Draco and Lynn; hopefully a few others took notes; I wrote those components down Viper; $600 and bits left over, cheap as chips)
    More Power To Ya. Yeeeeeeeeeeha!

  16. TruthSeeker 18

    Colmar Brunton has Nats on 43%. Lowest since 2005. Labour is on 36%.

    Key’s personal popularity has taken a hit too. Down five to 39%.

    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      Good solid result for Labour. I can hear the sound of knives sharpening over in the National caucus. What did they have the Greens come in at?

      • Te Reo Putake 18.1.1

        Greens 13, Winston 3. Conservatives 2, others 1 each, except the MP, who have vanished, apparently.

        • Colonial Viper

          I see Key lost 5 personal points, but Shearer’s own rating did not move.

          • Te Reo Putake

            As long as we fight the election on policy, it shouldn’t matter. Brand Key alone isn’t enough this time.

      • North 18.1.2

        Judy’ll be hosting a pregnantly “nudge nudge wink wink don’t mention Colmar-Brunton” Sunday supper out in Clevedon right now. Repeatedly excusing herself to call Steven J – “Kia Ora Steven…….just calling to see how you are……. who’s over at your place ?”. SJ’s not picking up.

        Meanwhile over in Parnell Dunnokeyo’ll be taking solace in big-noting at a BBQ for Max’s adoring, entitled wee prat mates from down the street.

        Gerry’ll be cruising the broken streets of Christchurch hazard-jacket clad looking for someone to witness a malodourously flatulent display of being on the job.

        Banks’ll be manically swilling down botox pills with rare single malt.

        Pointless you say ? Indeed not !

        Out of this extraordinary phenomenon of hoi-polloi temeritousness will arise a record-grossing new tele-drama……… “Shonky Python”. I’m not kidding. Pete and Fran emailed the concept to Warners shortly after lunch.

        • North

          Sorry……..failed to mention Gossie. According to hisher Mum heshe is still locked in hisher room, sonorous sobbing emanating therefrom. My God. This will not end well. It’s been 48 hours.

          Meanwhile BM is running reds on the way to the airport in the BM?, sans chauffeur (to whom heshe owes holiday pay, the cad). Boarding the first flight bound for……..well anywhere really. Anywhere there’s no extradition treaty. Careful about that departure card declaration re the excess of $10K mate. You may not be able to come back to buy up all that threepenny real estate.

          Oh how Cruel Chance has beset us and laboured our melons !

        • ak

          SHONKEY PYTHON! You just made my day Northie, ta muchly

    • karol 19.1

      Shearer on 3 News: “That’s just John Key talking out of his…. mouth.”…?

      PS; And Key saying it’s his “centre right” government versus the Labour Green’ “far left”…. somebody please get out there and call it the BS it is!

      • Te Reo Putake 19.1.1

        Yep, awful. The are other ways to say arse without looking lame.

      • Pascal's bookie 19.1.2

        Don’t call it bullshit. Laugh, and say ‘Look, John Key just doesn’t know where the centre is anymore’.

        • Colonial Viper

          Damn, that’s a good line…

        • Paul

          He is beyond training. Someone in the caucus must see that the Labour Party needs an effective spokesperson for their policies.
          Compare and contrast with Norman.
          This is too important to stuff up. NZ can’t afford 3 more years of the neo-liberal experiment. our schools, health system will be destroyed if change does not happen in 2014.
          If the Labour Party are reading this, please act on behalf of NZ.

          • muzza

            I must have missed the announcement that Labour/Greens was taking control of NZ’s monetary supply, and instead of borrowing itself into oblivion, was going to have the RBNZ issue any funds required to *keep the lights on*, build hospitals, schools etc…

            We know that Norman has referenced *printing money*, but I am quite sure he does not want to be the victim of a *truncated existance*, being part of the governmment, that was going to turn the debt tap off, and pull the banksters a brown eye!

            No, no….the neoliberal experiment will continue quite nicely, regardless of who is in charge!

            Edit: Yes, Shearer is byond training, but filling his role beautifully!

  17. TruthSeeker 20

    The Reid Research is a rogue.

    Colmar Brunton usually favours the Nats. That they are now polling their lowest since 2005 in CB is the most significant sign yet that John Key has “jumped the shark”.

    Let’s see what the next Digipoll says. If that confirms the trend, then knives sharpening indeed…

    • ianmac 20.1

      A bit odd at TV3. Reid poll:
      Nat 49.4
      Lab 30.2
      Green 11.5
      NZF 3.8
      Trends and all that but differences a bit umm strange?

      • Paul 20.1.1

        How do Reid source their poll?
        Any difference between this poll’s methodology is different from the other companies’ technique?

  18. NickS 21


    And muzza “believes” which ever ones get the best response :3

    • muzza 21.1

      Nicky boy, you never got around to saying what your life experience actually consisted of, mentioning of mental health issues aside, and know it all, online demeanor, and part time blog tough guy…

      Far as I can tell, you do not have anything which resembles *understanding*, which was gained by living outside what ever little place you inhabit!

      Lets hear it sonny jim!

      Or at least give me a rage fuelled rant, I so miss those of late…

      • ghostrider888 21.1.1

        or, you may both park up on a sandy knoll and enjoy a spot of surf-casting…

      • McFlock 21.1.2

        nor have you, muzza

        • ghostrider888

          I gotta ride; me movie is on I’m told. :-D.

        • muzza

          How does my RFI to Nick, involve you, McFlock?

          • McFlock

            Open mike, fool. Just pointing out your double standard, just in case you want to correct it for the spectators.

            • muzza

              Its got nothing to do with you, double standards, Open Mike or otherwise, you know that, and it was the best you could come up with to run interference for another clumsey interjection!

              Let Nick speak for himself, if he can manage it!

              • McFlock

                Oh, I’m sure ‘the man’ muzz would like shut me up for speaking truth to lunacy, but I have the interwebz! I am invincible!

                Come see the censorship inherent in the system!

      • NickS 21.1.3


        *goes back to Firefall*

  19. karol 22

    *groan* – now Key is picking himself up off the ropes, and, desperate to appear relevant, is promoting incentives to attract big spending tourists to NZ – via convention centres, etc. and targeting emerging economies in places like Indonesia, India and Latin America.

    What planet is he on? Latin America? Wouldn’t they get more and bigger for their bigger bucks in the US and Canada? Indonesia? Wouldn’t Aussie be more attractive?

    • ghostrider888 22.1

      look forward to a cable-car being laid under the sea-bed to Beijing.
      essentially karol, attracting more Asian migration and investment is the big picture for the business class.

  20. Rogue Trooper 23

    now, where were we before we got all hot and distracted, oh yes,
    China’s State Council, or cabinet, examines US Human Rights Records (see, vinyl’s back in style)

    How the West missed a chance to make peace with Tehran,

    oooh, Revolving Doors

    oooh, declines in the EU Stockmarkets too; wonder what it all means 😀

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