Open mike 21/07/2013

78 comments on “Open mike 21/07/2013 ”

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1. lprent 1

   21 July 2013 at 8:06 am

   Database jammed up on a lock overnight. Probably due to some kind of bot?

   Needs a procedure to automatically clear locks/connections… Or I make the database ‘bigger’ with a higher cost *sigh*

   I also need to look at better ways to reduce those damn bots. This morning there are a flood of requests from Facebook and Bing. Mostly looking at images right now rather than db.
   • lprent 1.1

     21 July 2013 at 8:09 am

     I’m scheduling a database update now.
     • lprent 1.1.1

       21 July 2013 at 8:30 am

       Done. Ok that (while more costly) should give more room to handle these oddball middle of the night peaks.
2. Rosetinted 2

   21 July 2013 at 8:31 am

   This interview with Chris Laidlaw this morning could be interesting for forward looking people.
   It includes someone telling what one ohu, community farm in Lange’s time, did to become more self-catering and self-sufficient.

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday
   (Audio rerun takes about 30 mins from finish to load. But try to get it fresh off the wife (whoops wire, left this it’s a funny typo), and don’t forget to get the latest from Down the List just after 11 a.m.)

   10:06 Ideas: This week discusses the concept of Utopia
   A map of the world that does not include Utopia,” Oscar Wilde once said, “is not worth even glancing at, for it leaves out the one country at which Humanity is always landing. This morning Ideas talks to three explorers in the search for that mythical ideal. Produced by Jeremy Rose.

   Very probably we will, or our children, will need to learn the art of collective living at even a small level. Creches for adults really. Groups in contact and combining strengths and supportive lives tend to fare better than individuals, if the whanau are all contributing, not with slackers or careless types who brrow tools and then break them and don’t repair them, don’t return them to the agreed holding family etc.
3. Saarbo 3

   21 July 2013 at 8:32 am

   Great article on The Nation – Migrant Workers in Dairy Farming

   Migrant Labour to South Island Dairy farms. The main reason that Kiwis dont work on these farms is because Farmers dont pay enough…the work on a >1000 cow dairy farm is incredibly tough, particularly during calving. People need to work around the clock, 16 hour plus days . If Farmers paid people a fair salary to reflect the hard work they will get more people applying, these farms are incredibly profitable…they can afford it.

   The introduction of migrant workers is a distortion of the farmers belovered free market…

   I know of farmers in the north island letting go of their kiwi farm workers and employing multiple filipino workers to do all of the work…share milking as a step up to farm ownership has disappeared.
   • Tim 3.1

     21 July 2013 at 8:55 am

     @ Saarbo
     I haven’t yet seen The Nation – not sure I will, but it’s a nice little rort all propped up by agencies of state – not just Dairy Farms either – orchards, vineyards operated by the unscrupulous (or companies they outsource to).

     What pisses me off is that there is a nasty little “bloody immigrant taking all our jobs” thing going on in the background.
     Often when one delves into it – one finds that the “immigrants’ are people (students) who’ve been promised the world by private education providers (including relevant ‘work expeirience employment’), who have under-delivered – some shutting up shop/going out of business. Those ripped-off immigrants have very little recourse, but are faced with having to repay the exorbitant amount of money they’ve (and often their family and friends) borrowed for fees.
     It’s made all the worse when Immigration grants visas on the basis that they are tied to a specific employer – so they have to take what ever is dealt to them – OR go through another costly, long drawn out process to have it changed – often involving a catch-22 situation.

     A rort probably doesn’t describe it all adequately!
     • Saarbo 3.1.1

       21 July 2013 at 9:42 am

       Yes, I’m sure you are right Tim, so these immigrants can end up pretty vulnerable and become very exploitable.

       What i am seeing is that National are using Immigrants to reduce wages at a worker level on Dairy farms. Lets suggest that we didnt allow immigrants in to work on Dairy farms, then the market would demand that farmers pay more for labour on their farms.

       We have to keep an eye on this immigrant labour, as you have pointed out Tim, they are often exploited.

       Feudalism is already happening in dairy farming nation wide, this policy is just speeding things up.
       • Jimmie 3.1.1.1

         21 July 2013 at 10:08 am

         Part of the problem is that there are few good quality NZ farm staff available to employ (Especially the male variety)
         Over the last 6 seasons we have employed around 14 farm staff on several different farms.
         (From memory have been around 10 male & 4 female)

         Of the males the following did not finish their employment contracts with us:

         1 – Left two months shy of contract to be closer to family (Understandable but not helpful)

         2 – Was dismissed after disciplinary proceedings for repeatedly failing to come to work and/or leaving work when he felt like it. (Turned out mostly when he had run out of $$ to fund his cannabis addiction) Oh I won’t mention the sexual harassment allegations against him.

         3 – Young guy – during his first calving his grandma dies in Tasmania, he begs for time off to go to the funeral. When he is due back he never shows up. After several phone calls he tells me he has met a girlfriend over there (Already had two in NZ) and he won’t be coming home.

         4 – What about the 23 year old that ended up having a temper so when he got tired he would punch and kick what ever was around (Including animals)

         5 The old guy (with 30 years farming experience) who was bitter that he had never got a manager’s job and would repeatedly show up to work late and moan about everything. (Oh and threatened to kill the farm owner who had met only once)

         In contrast the females have all worked out well – good work ethic, reliable, honest, and are happy to help contribute towards the efficient working of the farm.

         I have not employed any immigrant labour but understand why some farmers do. They are keen for the work, they are reliable, they tend to be self disciplined (not likely to have the local bobby knocking on the door looking for them) and they don’t mind the dirty jobs.

         What they can struggle with (Philippino immigrants especially) is learning how to make decisions and to take initiative on farm – always need a boss to do the thinking for them

         This is why I have shied away from them – I would rather employ a kiwi and try to train them to be able to think and plan and to adapt to a changing situation. But it is hard to find suitable potential staff here.
         • KJT 3.1.1.1.1

           21 July 2013 at 11:13 am

           I wonder what you are paying?

           I know a lot of dairy farmers, family, locals, and the one my son works for.

           The ones, and there are many, who offer half way decent wages and conditions, and are known as reasonable employers, get more job applications than they can handle.

           Some farmers, though, are shocking employers.

           I remember all the moans from Kiwifruit growers about lack of labour a while back.

           It turned out they, millionaire growers, were effectively paying $3 an hour. After charging the workers for sleeping on a patch of hay in the old cow shed and paying piece rates where you would have to be superman to make minimum wage. Not to mention the cost of workers getting themselves there. And the stand down with WINZ after the season which would swallow up all their remaining earnings.
         • felix 3.1.1.1.2

           21 July 2013 at 8:22 pm

           Jeez Jimmie.

           A high proportion of your workforce don’t want to be there, quit at the first chance they get, and when they do turn up they’re angry and violent.

           That’s not normal. You need to look in the mirror son, you’re running a shit workplace.
         • Morrissey 3.1.1.1.3

           21 July 2013 at 8:32 pm

           You sound like a rotten employer. People like you are why we need to have strong unions.
           • Paul 3.1.1.1.3.1

             21 July 2013 at 8:42 pm

             Yet to declare the pay rate at his several farms…..
       • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.2

         21 July 2013 at 2:20 pm

         What i am seeing is that National are using Immigrants to reduce wages at a worker level on Dairy farms.

         It was Labour that altered the legislation to allow more temporary workers.
         • Tim 3.1.1.2.1

           21 July 2013 at 9:02 pm

           Geez Draco T – you keep reminding me of the endless number of reasons why I can no longer support ABC Labour. It was never a habit, just at one time the best and most sensible option.
           It waned in Helen’s 3rd term. It was almost becoming a contest between the least worst option. Thankfully there are now options if one is of a centre-left/left wing persuasion. (Hint: it ain’t Labour at the moment).
           Btw …. msg to Hilary: Read above – they’re not the best option atm (that’s shorthand for “at the moment”) and sentimentality, loyalty, solidarity towards those that have shown themselves to be obvious pratts – only goes so far.
           …and I did take your advice (“Give it a bit of time”). It’s been more than a frikken YEAR since then.
           Any new advice?
   • Colonial Viper 3.2

     21 July 2013 at 8:56 am

     This has been the case for several years now. And a lot of the surplus money produced is flowing straight to Oz banks in the form of high mortgage repayments.
     • Tim 3.2.1

       21 July 2013 at 9:13 am

       Indeed C.V. I forgot to mention too that for some of them, whilst they try and figure out how to raise money to repay their families, all the while having to take on whatever ‘work’ they can, visas will expire – whereupon they’re simply deported (out of sight, out of mind ).
       • Colonial Viper 3.2.1.1

         21 July 2013 at 9:27 am

         I know several farmers who do go out of their way to help their workers out with immigration processes, and quite successfully I might add. It’s part of why the migrant workers accept piss poor wages – they want their NZ residency.
         • Tim 3.2.1.1.1

           21 July 2013 at 9:49 am

           Yep CV – I know of such people too. It’s the luck of the draw tho’ for the immigrant (i.e. whether they get a concerned and decent sort of employer, OR an asshole). Certainly the idea of visas tied to an employer is not a good one.
           By the way – another deportation I’m aware of has just taken place a week or so ago.

           The good thing about it is that it’s going up the political food chain (I mean in the immigrant/international students’ own countries).
           We’ve already seen what can happen when the Chinese get pissed off.
           They’ve also managed to piss off a couple of Sth Americans.
           • Colonial Viper 3.2.1.1.1.1

             21 July 2013 at 10:04 am

             There are a number of nations across the world who regard the current government quite poorly, because of this and other issues. The fact that the NATs pissed off our entire diplomatic corps has not helped.
         • Tim 3.2.1.1.2

           21 July 2013 at 10:06 am

           Impending ankle-biter duty back later BUT
           I’d go so far as to say that it has been predominantly ‘immigrant’ labour and expertise, and one or two of those GOOD employers you and I know of that have gotten us over the whole PSA virus debacle – once again not helped by certain state agencies (Immigration, Bio-D, etc., and the short-sighted, cost-accounting attitudes of their Snr. Management and Munsters)
   • Draco T Bastard 3.3

     21 July 2013 at 2:15 pm

     share milking as a step up to farm ownership has disappeared.

     That was inevitable due to the simple lack of available land.
   • Murray Olsen 3.4

     22 July 2013 at 2:55 am

     I don’t remember farmers ever loving the free market. As long as I can remember, they’ve demanded government assistance and never paid any of it back with anything except the willingness to ride into town and pretend to be Cossacks.
4. Morrissey 4

   21 July 2013 at 8:46 am

   The Hall of Hogwash
   Exhibit No. 3: JOHN KERRY

   “The best way to give these negotiations a chance is to keep them private. We know that the challenges require some very tough choices in the days ahead. Today, however, I am hopeful.”

   —U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, speaking about the latest “peace talks” between Israel and the PA. He went on to praise the “courageous leadership” of Netanyahu and Abbas.

   http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Kerry-prolongs-trip-set-to-meet-Abbas-in-Ramallah-320386

   hogwash, n. 1. Worthless, false, or ridiculous speech or writing; nonsense. 2. Garbage fed to hogs; swill.
   hypocrisy, n. 1. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc., contrary to one’s real character or actual behaviour, esp. the pretence of virtue and piety 2. an act or instance of this

   More exhibits in the Hall of Hogwash….
   No. 2 DAVID CAMERON: “We never support, in countries, the intervention by the military.”
   No. 1 BARACK OBAMA: “Madiba’s moral courage…people standing up for what’s right….aaaahhhh, the yearning for justice and dignity…”
5. Clean them out 5

   21 July 2013 at 9:14 am

   Clayton Cosgrave was part of an attempt to set up a new Party funded/controlled by Michelle Boag’s National Party contacts.

   Early in 1994 Michael Laws and Mike Moore appear on TVNZ’s current affairs programme Fraser together. Here they discuss the opportunities for a new centre party on air. The two reportedly decide afterwards that they should meet again to further discuss this opportunity. A meeting between Moore and Michelle Boag was organised in to discuss the potential of National Party donors financing a new Centre party . Involved in the discussions were;
   Mike Moore – Former Prime Minister who had been replaced as Labour leader after the 1993 election.
   Michael Laws, Geoff Braybrooke, Jack Elder, Peter McCardle, Clayton Cosgrove, Ron Mark and Tony Day,
   The first week of the 1996 parliamentary session was discussed as an ideal launch date. However, in an interview with the Sunday Star-Times the following weekend Mike Moore states that he is committed to Labour.

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Democratic_Coalition
   • Rosetinted 5.1

     21 July 2013 at 11:01 am

     clean them out
     Very interesting. Something similar about the ideas and words of all those names! Some went on to Christian Coalition, Mark was NZ First wasn’t he – send them all off to Army training as an answer to everything, and MM and CC found Labour quite right-wing enough.
6. North 6

   21 July 2013 at 9:18 am

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10900914nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10900911
7. North 7

   21 July 2013 at 9:18 am

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10900914nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10900911
8. North 8

   21 July 2013 at 9:29 am

   Check out the links above re Pastor Hannah Gargoyle-Tamaki and daughter.

   No mention of the cost of the cosmetic work, or the botox, or the hairdo. How much change out of $350 for the monthly coiff’ ?

   Paraphrased: “It’s rubbish to be poor when you’re in the ‘business’ of helping the poor – ‘them’ ensconcing me and the bishop in luxury is but a God fearing step on ‘their’ way up.”

   Cargo-cult with God’s chosen nabbing all the cargo and being righteous about it !

   Daughter, ponder this: overheard (by me) in the supermarket yesterday from the mouth of a young woman with three young kids in tow – “No no no, Weetbix are too expensive.”
   • Draco T Bastard 8.1

     21 July 2013 at 2:30 pm

     Tamaki ready for expose
     Online budgeting tipster keeps link to her wealthy dad a secret

     You broke the links.
   • Tim 8.2

     21 July 2013 at 9:39 pm

     Hey North – do you realise that they once demolished and entire building because of its ‘Gargoyles’ and in the name of ‘corporate prestige’.
     Its pathetic substitute now stands on the corner of Willeston and Willis Sts, Wellington.
     (no word on its structural integrity yet – If I were a structural engineer tho’ I’d be worried about those wrap-around bits that make the columns look more substantial than they actually are – and what they’re hiding)
9. Morrissey 9

   21 July 2013 at 9:44 am

   Humbug Corner

   No. 19: BYRON BENTLEY

   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

   “He is a great guy, a good man … very caring, very interested in the school, very involved.”

   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

   —Macleans College principal Byron Bentley praises police inspector Richard Wilkie, who has admitted to assaulting two teenagers in an off-duty incident that left other officers at the scene disturbed. Wilkie has resigned from his position of Board of Trustees chairman at Macleans.
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10900944

   Humbug Corner is dedicated to gathering, and highlighting, the most striking examples of faux solicitude, insincere apologies, and particularly stupid recycling of official canards. It is produced by the Insincerity Project®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.

   More humbugs….
   No. 18 Rachel Smalley: “…heartbreak all over NSW as Queensland wins the deciding State of Origin!”
   No. 17 Jay Carney: ““He is not a human rights activist, he is not a dissident.”
   No. 16 Barack Obama: “I wish Muslims across America & around the world a month blessed with the joys of family, peace & understanding.”
   http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-11072013/#comment-661330
   No.15 John Key: “They know this is an issue of national security…”
   No. 14 Charles Saatchi: “I abhor violence of any kind against women…”

   No. 13 Toyota New Zealand: “The more Kiwis that lean, the more motivated our ETNZ crew will be to win.”

   No. 12 Pem Bird: “We’re there to do the business of advancing our people.”

   No.11 Whenua Patuwai: “They’re my brothers and to see one of them goes [sic]—it’s tough.”

   No. 10 [REMOVED]
   

No. 9 [REMOVED]



   No. 8 Barack Obama: “…people standing up for what’s right…yearning for justice and dignity…”


No. 7 Barack Obama: “Nelson Mandela is my personal hero…”
   

No. 6 John Key: “Yeah well the Greens’ answer to everything is rail, isn’t it.”
   No.5 Dr. Rodney Syme: “If you want good, open, honest practice, you have to make it transparent.”



   No. 4 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton’s… integrity beyond reproach…such great character…”
   


No. 3 Dean Lonergan: “Y’ know what? The only people who will mock them are people who are dwarfists.”
   


No. 2 Peter Dunne: “What a load of drivel and sanctimonious humbug…”
   




No. 1 Dominic Bowden: “It’s okay to be speechless.”


10. North 10

    21 July 2013 at 9:44 am

    Sorry folks – links seem to have disappeared from this morning’s Herald webpage. Articles re Pastor Hannah’s $90,000 Audi wagon and daughter’s “feed the whanau for $20 per meal”.
    • Veutoviper 10.1

      21 July 2013 at 9:49 am

      Try this link, North.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=10900914

      I found it by searching for ‘Hannah Tamaki” in the Herald search box.
      • Veutoviper 10.1.1

        21 July 2013 at 9:56 am

        Tried but failed to be able to edit the above to include this link to the article re the Tamaki daughter feeding the whanau for $20.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10900911
    • joe90 10.2

      21 July 2013 at 11:23 am

      Let’s not forget this wretched incident where the church franchise holders closed ranks, the alleged offenders (yes, there were others involved) were sheltered, Capillesque justifications were floated and victims were blamed.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/3519900/Pastors-son-facing-sex-charge

      http://www.3news.co.nz/Destiny-Church-abuse-allegations/tabid/817/articleID/148676/Default.aspx

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3712232/Sex-charge-dropped-family-turns-on-media
11. Paul 11

    21 July 2013 at 9:59 am

    “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man “(or woman..hat tip Monty Python) “to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. ”
    Glad to see she’s living by the tenets of her faith then…….
    • North 11.1

      21 July 2013 at 10:11 am

      To be blunt……..those bludgers the Tamakis don’t entertain the Kingdom of God except to the extent that the construct realises them the personal paradise they live in here on Earth.
      • Paul 11.1.1

        21 July 2013 at 10:18 am

        Well the bible encourages its followers to be sheep.
        Mrs Tamaki is the wolf that gobbled them all down.
    • David H 11.2

      21 July 2013 at 10:17 am

      Maybe she’s figuring on getting some metal worker from her church to build her a huge needle.
      • Paul 11.2.1

        21 July 2013 at 10:27 am

        And if his family are cold this winter because they can’t pay their bills as all their spare cash has been tithed to pay for the Tamaki’s bling, they can hug under a blanket, according to Pastor Hannah.
12. Adrian 12

    21 July 2013 at 10:11 am

    Bullshit, you don’t get that fat on $20 bucks a week.
    • North 12.1

      21 July 2013 at 11:03 am

      Spurred on by the exhortations of Hottie C-Rankin and Pastor Hannah Gargoyle-Tamaki on “The Vote” recently, I carefully tracked the cost of 14 individual evening meals – 8 adult meals 6 kids’ meals – consumed Friday night to Sunday night.

      Good food it was too – Friday night beef and vegetable lasagne and salad – Saturday night roast chicken with roast vegetables gravy etc – Sunday night meat sauce and pasta with salad.

      Total cost – just about everything seasonal or bought on special but excluding the cost of seasonings, energy, cooking oil, the $1.48 no-grain budget bread those pampered kids insist on – $42.

      Felt quite chuffed I did. Nearly emailed the said Hottie C-Rankin and Pastor Hannah Gargoyle-Tamaki to thank them. Then I came back to reality and remembered that in this house there are fridges x 2 and deep freezers x 2. Heaps of room to safely store “clever” specials purchases. No worry about electricity to run them and power the water pump. As many as we choose daily trips to the supermarket in one of several cars available.

      Makes you wanna tell Hottie and Gargoyle to fuck off really. “Neh neh neh – a serving of Weetbix costs 37 cents – smug smug smug”.

      Marie-Antoinette molls both of them !

      “Oh sorry kids…….no brekky or lunch Saturday or Sunday…….put that milk back ya little shit !”

      In case anyone should feel morally bound to dob me in to CYPS I note that there was breakfast and lunch both days but boy, it sure fucked my budget !
13. David H 13

    21 July 2013 at 10:23 am

    Now this is a crying shame. The death of, in my opinion, one of the funniest men in the last decade at least.

    RIP Mel, you have made me laugh for years.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/8945393/Influential-British-comedian-Mel-Smith-dies
14. Rosetinted 14

    21 July 2013 at 10:31 am

    Query lprent?
    Where did my comment as follows –
    Rosetinted …
    20 July 2013 at 7:38 pm
    reMorrissey
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-19072013/

    Rosetinted: Comment:Weekend social 19/07/2013
    Date published:
    11:37 am, July 20th, 2013

    mac1 Thanks lots for that.#comment-665584

    go to as far as Morrissey’s records are concerned?

    His records for that day in his archives finish as at –
    Morrissey: Comment:Open mike 19/07/2013
    Date published:
    10:20 am, July 20th, 2013

    Are things getting wiped or lost somewhere?
    • Rosetinted 14.1

      21 July 2013 at 10:53 am

      lprent
      See further at 10.52 am below.
15. bad12 15

    21 July 2013 at 10:44 am

    Matt McCarten in His Herald column this morning points out the cold hard facts that that mainstay of Neo-Liberalism, ‘responsibility and accountability’ is and was always meaningless gibberish and when all is said and done the Pike River disaster delivers us all the lesson that there is no such thing,

    Obviously there is needed in this country a criminal charge of ‘Corporate Manslaughter’ to enforce upon those who pay lip service to the notion of that ‘responsibility and accountability’ the cold hard reality of their actions and in-actions when it comes to the lives of their employees on the job,

    The next Labour/Green Government i would hope would have this clearly pencilled in to the first year of it’s legislative program after election,

    Matt raises a more difficult issue in the Herald column which discusses the fines imposed on the Pike River Mining Company as well as it’s break-up before-hand where all the ‘cash’ assets of Pike River including insurance payments said to be in the realm of a100 million dollars which where disbursed years befor Pike River could be convicted by any Court among the ‘secured creditors’, including Banks, Major Shareholders, and the liquidators themselves were said to have accrued millions of dollars in ‘fees’ for over-seeing such a disbursement,

    Thus the families of the 29 miners entombed in the Pike River Mine will receive a mere sniff of justice for their fallen men, hollow words and a judgement that fines should be paid to the victims families that no law can or will enforce,

    Pike River is the most glaring example of this ‘no responsibility, no accountability’ enshrined in our laws which not only lets ‘business’ get away with murder but also allows ‘business’ of many varieties to ignore the Courts on matters of compensation where the likes of Employment Tribunals make orders for payment to employees knowing that they will never be paid as the ‘business’ concerned has ceased trading under a particular name and assumed a different one,

    We need a fundamental change in the attitude that when disaster strikes, firms go belly up, or orders of compensation are made by ANY court in favor of workers those workers are somehow denied payment by ‘business’ who have circumvented any ‘responsibility’ by a simple change of paperwork,

    Employees in any disaster,insolvency, or, Court ordered payment should be made the FIRST SECURED CREDITOR and distribution of any ‘cash assets’ that any firm may have in any form must first take account of any present or future claim by employees and i would go as far as to say that the directors and shareholders in listed company’s should be made responsible for paying the employees as the first secured creditor any and all monies owed at the time of closure or at the point of any future court ordered payment,

    Changing the name of a business to avoid an Employment tribunal ordered payment should result in criminal charges of attempting to pervert the course of justice and Employment Tribunal orders should not be made in the name of a particular ‘business’ but instead be attached to the name of the person who materially owns/operates that business,

    The Labour and Green Party’s should be pushed to make such changes to our laws….
16. Rosetinted 16

    21 July 2013 at 10:52 am

    lprent
    That took a while for me to check and I ran out of edit time. I started looking in peronal archives for –
    Rosetinted 20/7 7.38p.m. re Morrissey – I couldn’t find on Morrissey’s list for 20/7.

    And then checking on both Rosetinted and Morrissey I found –
    But Rosetinted 20/7 11.37a.m. to mac1 – That is the last one on my listing for 20/7.
    And Morrissey 20/7 – last listing for that date was at 10.20 a.m.
    So where did the 7.38 pm one go. And I don’t know what others that might have been made but not showing.

    Sometimes I click on an entry in the comments list, and get sent to a completely different page.
    I don’t know whether that’s relevant to the above query.

    (I found rosetinted 20/7 at 7.38p.m. by scrolling through the thread which was Open Mike 19/7.)
17. Tiresias 17

    21 July 2013 at 12:45 pm

    An article with some thoughtful comments concerning the on-going slow-motion train-wreck of civilization, with particular regard to the failure of the left to make any progress whatsoever for the last 40 years – and as apposite to New Zealand as to the US, in my view:

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/07/chris-hedges-america-is-a-tinderbox.html
18. Polish Pride 18

    21 July 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Someone who looks into Conspiracy Theories rather than just believing the official story. Study shows you are likely to have your head screwed on better than those just simply believeing the official version of events.

    http://intellihub.com/2013/07/15/new-studies-conspiracy-theorists-sane-government-dupes-crazy-hostile/
    • joe90 18.1

      21 July 2013 at 1:37 pm

      sigh…site that carries banners for banned reports and shit cites Iranian sourced conclusions….

      http://www.frontiersin.org/Personality_Science_and_Individual_Differences/10.3389/fpsyg.2013.00409/full

      Indeed, Wood et al. (2012) demonstrated that even beliefs in directly contradictory conspiracy theories were positively correlated with one another, indicating that conspiracy beliefs may be held together not by direct agreement with one another, but by mutual agreement with higher-order beliefs about the world.
      • Polish Pride 18.1.1

        21 July 2013 at 3:07 pm

        “sigh…site that carries banners for banned reports and shit cites Iranian sourced conclusions….”

        provided the Authors credentials are good and the research was valid nothing you have sighed about should matter really now should it.
    • bad12 18.2

      21 July 2013 at 1:47 pm

      LOLZ, the most bought into Government line that is patently bullshit in this country is the anti-tobacco fanatics ‘tobacco is the only legal product that kills 50% of those who use it as directed’,

      Health officials, the anti-tobacco fanatics, Government Ministers, and MP’s by a huge majority across the whole spectrum of the Parliament will put hand on heart and swear that this is true,

      When pushed on the bad health out-comes which supposedly kills 50% of tobacco’s users they will all dutifully intone that Heart Disease and Cancers are the culprits swearing that this is a direct result of tobacco use,

      What they remain TOTALLY silent upon, as if being part of the collective Nunnery of the nation having taken the vows of silence, is what kills 50% of the population that have never used tobacco products,

      50% of the population who have never used tobacco WILL DIE of the same Heart Disease and Cancers which knock off 50% of the tobacco users, which would suggest strongly to anyone with half a brain who is neither brainwashed nor a fanatic that tobacco use does not seriously figure in such deaths,

      Of course if the above is true then 100’s of millions of Health dollars are being wasted by the anti-tobacco fanatics which would far better be spent addressing why 50% of the population whether they have ever used tobacco products or not get bumped off of the mortal coil by that Heart Disease and those Cancers…
      • joe90 18.2.1

        21 July 2013 at 2:24 pm

        Speaking about cancers and stuff, here’s some sad news that’s gone largely unnoticed.

        Yoshida was at the Fukushima nuclear complex when the tsunami engulfed the cooling system and saw three reactors go into meltdown. In an interview in November 2011, he said he thought several times that he would die.

        Defying orders from his bosses, Yoshida made the decision to pump seawater into the No. 1 reactor in a move that may have averted a catastrophic nuclear explosion.

        http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/10/world/asia/japan-yoshida-death/index.html?iid=article_sidebar
        • Rosetinted 18.2.1.1

          22 July 2013 at 1:33 pm

          Masao Yoshida is someone to remember and respect. Thanks for drawing our attention to this joe 90.

          He went against protocol and with the ‘Fukushima 50’ used seawater to cool reactors overheating. Now he is dead, and the other men in ‘the 50’ may also have shortened lives.
          They should not be forgotten or overlooked. I think there was heroism after the Chernobul event also.

          An important point in this linked article mentions the findings that there were deficiencies in the nuclear reactor oversight and control.

          The authorities’ handling of the nuclear disaster was widely criticized, with an independent investigation calling it a “man-made disaster” that unfolded as a result of collusion between TEPCO, regulators and the government.

          This occurs as a theme in other reports I’ve read after disasters. We must remember this when our pollies are prattling on about how much they care about controls and how well practices will be monitored and safety equipment…blah blah …and jobs will be created – note that. That’s what is said as a carrot for every dirty little deal the shysters want to get through the hole in the safety net.
    • McFlock 18.3

      21 July 2013 at 2:19 pm

      The authors were surprised to discover that it is now more conventional to leave so-called conspiracist comments than conventionalist ones: “Of the 2174 comments collected, 1459 were coded as conspiracist and 715 as conventionalist.” In other words, among people who comment on news articles, those who disbelieve government accounts of such events as 9/11 and the JFK assassination outnumber believers by more than two to one. That means it is the pro-conspiracy commenters who are expressing what is now the conventional wisdom, while the anti-conspiracy commenters are becoming a small, beleaguered minority.

      No, it means that if you choose 911 as a topic because the conspiracist community for that issue “is noted for its substantial online presence and focus on Internet proselytizing”, you can expect to see more conspiracy comments than comments from people who have not chosen to make the deaths of thousands of people their personal hobby.
      • Colonial Viper 18.3.1

        21 July 2013 at 2:25 pm

        9/11 was the justification for changing the course of the world. That makes it very interesting indeed.
        • McFlock 18.3.1.1

          21 July 2013 at 3:30 pm

          Well, I wouldn’t have thought that one would do a hobby that they find boring. But it’s still a fucking hobby.
19. Rhinocrates 19

    21 July 2013 at 3:18 pm

    And in memory of Mel Smith:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzPJSuAQnbE&feature=share
20. The Pink Postman 20

    21 July 2013 at 3:39 pm

    The more I think of it the more convinced I am that the huge deterioration of workers wages and rights began with the abolition of compulsory Unionism’.
    Its time to rethink the role of some form off compulsory union membership.Its not a vote winner but essential if we are to return to a society where a fair deal,foe all is the norm.
    • bad12 20.1

      21 July 2013 at 5:20 pm

      i would happily see ‘compulsory unionism’ return, especially for those earning less than 40 thousand a year…
    • Murray Olsen 20.2

      22 July 2013 at 3:18 am

      My problem with compulsory unionism is that it allowed the union bureaucrats to become a bit lazy in terms of convincing workers of the necessity of belonging. Once the legal compulsion went, so did many of the members. I think the strongest unions will always be voluntary. I also recognise that rebuilding membership isn’t easy.

      I am a union member in a non-compulsory situation. I pay for the salary rises and conditions also extended to my non-union colleagues. I object to that, but can live with it. I couldn’t live with not being a member.
21. risildo 21

    21 July 2013 at 5:13 pm

    5.10 pm we just had a quite scarey ass EARTH shake in Levin…….
    • Rosie 21.1

      21 July 2013 at 5:54 pm

      Yeah Risildo, that was a biggie, bigger than Friday’s and this morning’s one. It’s starting to get a bit much. I had just got a glass of wine to celebrate the planting of a hedge and my husband (a civil defence volunteer in training, so will have lots to discuss at this weeks class) was in the bath, recovering his sore muscles. Had a mini tsunami in the bath, windows rattling, crockery rattling, glassware tinkling, rumble rumble rumble, wine sloshing around in my glass as I found a safe place to stand. (Clearly I couldn’t put it down otherwise it would fall over!) …………

      Hope all living in Marlborough and lower north island doing ok and not dealing with too much damage.
22. bad12 22

    21 July 2013 at 5:15 pm

    Now that was a SHAKE, the ones early this morning were minor affairs but that one had the house doing the boogy on it’s foundations,

    So far out here east of the airport all these quakes have been felt less severely than elsewhere and if that was the case with that last one then there will be damage…
    • karol 22.1

      21 July 2013 at 5:27 pm

      6.5
      • karol 22.1.1

        21 July 2013 at 5:29 pm

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8945358/Big-quake-shakes-central-New-Zealand
      • Poission 22.1.2

        21 July 2013 at 5:30 pm

        link here

        http://www.geonet.org.nz/quakes/region/wellington/felt
      • bad12 22.1.3

        21 July 2013 at 5:34 pm

        Getting bigger, Power and water are still all good over the parts of wellington i can see from here, lolz, i was braced in the front porch befor that one delivered it’s full force,

        Having settled down again the mad scientists in my mind wants me to sit still in the chair for the next one,(whole house will probably come down round my ears),

        Prime news is saying power is out in parts of Wellington…
    • joe90 22.2

      21 July 2013 at 6:49 pm

      Disturbed Sunday beers here in the cliff – lots of lateral motion in two waves – tickers going pitter patter and a couple of upset kids but no damage, arrived home and an upended sauce bottle draining remnants was still standing though so it wasn’t too bad.
      Spoken to my SO who’s flying into Wellington later this PM so mildly reassured.
      • Te Reo Putake 22.2.1

        21 July 2013 at 7:45 pm

        Kia ora Joe! Glad there wasn’t any damage. The ‘cliff rocks! Had some terrific nights in the pub there back during the punk wars, 3 nights of Toy Love and an audience of two men and a dog stands out. Good times.

        And I know the footy club is also excellent, they do great work with the kids in the area. A real community club.
        • joe90 22.2.1.1

          21 July 2013 at 9:29 pm

          The pub and across the road a boarded up clubrooms – depopulation has been tough.
          • Te Reo Putake 22.2.1.1.1

            21 July 2013 at 9:42 pm

            Nice! The 4Square was the band bar. The clubrooms was the Seagulls league wasn’t it?
          • joe90 22.2.1.1.2

            21 July 2013 at 10:04 pm

            Yup, classic booze barn on the brewery circuit with a car park around the corner and yes, Seagulls – and that all came to an awful end.
23. Colonial Viper 23

    21 July 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Ahhhh crap. Keep us updated, and take care.
24. North 24

    21 July 2013 at 6:47 pm

    This is a serious and timely put question: what is the decent, honourable Kiwi to do about the renewed, indeed escalating War On The Poor ?

    Reckon it’s time to tune up on the great philosophers with a view to neutralising our natural timidities. The advised violence directed at poor Kiwis by a portly lady wearing a wan, gracelessly over-lippied, patronising smile…….it’s utterly unconscionable !

    J. K. Galbraith – “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a morally superior justification for selfishness.”

    When will we resolve that injustice cannot be permitted to go on ?
25. K 25

    21 July 2013 at 7:19 pm

    The Wellington Benefit Rights Service, otherwise known as Beneficiary Education and Advisory Service, Inc
    can be found here:

    http://www.finda.co.nz/business/listing/4q5743/wellington-benefit-rights-service/
26. Morrissey 26

    21 July 2013 at 8:02 pm

    Benny Tipene’s brother speaks an uncomfortable truth
    The X-Factor Grand Final, TV3, Sunday 21 July 2013

    Shortly before contestant Benny Tipene is due to sing, we go to host Dominic Bowden, who is sitting in the crowd, poking his microphone in the direction of a young man on his right….

    DOMINIC BOWDEN: I’m sitting here with Benny’s brother! What advice have you got for the voters?
    BENNY TIPENE’S BROTHER: Vote hard, vote often.

    ….[There ensues an extended awkward pause. A dark expression passes over Dominic Bowden’s normally cheery mien.]

    DOMINIC BOWDEN: Ha ha. “Vote hard, vote often.” [raises eyebrows to express contempt and annoyance] Back to you, Ruby….
    • Paul 26.1

      21 July 2013 at 8:58 pm

      How much money would that cost them?

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