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Open mike 21/10/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 21st, 2013 - 160 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy). Step right up to the mike…

160 comments on “Open mike 21/10/2013 ”

    • karol 1.1

      Yes. It’s worrying. Seems early in spring for such devastating fires…?! Hard summer coming up?

      • Ennui 1.1.1

        We sleep walk toward “interesting times”…as we all (me included) burn heaps and heaps of fossil fuels. “Ah but it was not my fault”, we will all say as we are forced to take a sailboat to the warm beaches of South Georgia.

        Yesterday when Tat “came out” Jim Nald asked him about “megatrends”. Well the biggest megatrend of the lot is SEP (somebody elses problem). Its from the Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy, something so preposterous and out there that ones brain rejects it being possible and blithely ignores it.

        This morning I watched Keiser on RT, he interviewed a British “academic” who has co authored a book called Turn Around Challenge. http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/news/201308Turnaround Challenge

        The premise is the same old techno narcissism that we are so bloody clever that we can subvert the rules of thermodynamics to “invent” alternative energy sources. On a finite planet.. not to mention consuming more through “growth”. And the common wankspanner idea of today that information technology can create tangible “growth”…last time I tried I found the Mac was neither edible, tasty or able to cloth me. I am so fekkin bored with this trite nonsense. Reality can be seen, its not an SEP, we just need to stop fantastic drivel like that proposed by the aforesaid “academic” and deal to facts.

        • Rogue Trooper

          Enne Mondayitis? open wide and say “arrrgh!”

          -When the government is invasive,
          the people are wanting.
          Calamity is what fortune depends upon;
          fortune is what calamity subdues.
          Who knows how it will all end?
          Is there no right and wrong?
          The orthodox also becomes unorthodox,
          the good also becomes ill;
          people’s confusion
          is indeed long-standing- 58

        • greywarbler

          This morning Radionz was interviewing a South African Ivo Vetger who has written a book that highlights how some of the fears and statements that have been made about harm from environmental pollution or climate change, have been false, exaggerated, not come to pass,.
          It isn’t fair to make such statements he thinks, it frightens people as in the Gulf of Mexico debacle fishermen were told they would not be able to fish again, and some/one committed suicide. And now they are fishing again and the dugong, manatees, or whatever, other sea creatures are just fine. And oil on the seafloor – that is not anything new and the environment can handle it.

          Just another excuse maker for doing nothing, fiddling while Rome burns BAU BUM. He’s a smoothie, good talker, written a book. Why bother RadioNZ 9toNoon?
          This is a considered opinion from Twitter (says it all).
          The latest from Ivo Vegter (@IvoVegter). Free-market columnist. Author: Extreme Environment. ‘A sniveling sycophant, rotten little shill, dribbly contention monger …

          And about our capacity to think things out rationally using reason.
          from Jonathan Cainer (b1957) – got this from the newspaper don’t know the guy.

          Our brains are not capable of comprehending the infinite so, instead, we ignore it and eat cheese on toast.

          I’ve mentioned how useful Transactional Analysis methods are for understanding thinking states but will do so again. It helps to see where we or others, are coming from. From book I’m OK – You’re OK.
          Three states –
          Parent – Authoritarian, behaviour forming rules, inhibitions, often from childhood and still
          being applied in present whether appropriate now or not.
          Child – Tends to be joyful, irresponsible, uninhibited, artisitic expressive.
          Can adopt certain behaviours – The Little Professor is one.
          Adult – Tries to think rationally using appropriate information, trying to make balanced
          decisions. Can lack empathy if not allowing any child thoughts. Can be too
          rule bound and judgmental if drawing on parent too much. But can keep thinking
          and examining, can make appropriate changes.

          With better understanding of how we think, we can think out better solutions. Maybe we will succeed to cope with our future.

          • Rogue Trooper

            TA is helpful.

          • Ennui

            Thanks P, I have read a little on TA, seems to have merit. Gotta be some circuit breaker to willful non acceptance of reality. Still there is nothing new, how old is the story of the emperors clothes?

            PS love the Tweet on the sniveling sycophant!!!

          • North

            To be honest the first thing I said to myself listening to that guy was “Who’s paying you ?”

            There was that ring to it to my ears.

        • aerobubble

          Two stories. One Germany has so much renewable power its causing its neighbors problems, and another story about a low energy carbon segrestrator? that produces charcoal. Its not that far off but instead of Germany pumping the excess supply around europe it just needs to use up the excess to create something useful like charcoal – reducing the carbon from the atmosphere (for a time).

          • Ennui

            Aero, apologies for being a kill joy but the stories demonstrate the way the whole techno narcissistic spin doctors work. Germany may well have too much energy, I was there a few months ago, windmills everywhere. But they burn oil and coal as well to generate electricity. What I read there was that they were dependent on that, wind was a thin layer of cream on the cake.

            • miravox

              I’ve read a couple of articles that suggest Germany’s biggest problem with renewables is the wind is in the north and the manufacturing is in the south and as far as the lines to connect the two go, the nimbys are in the middle.

              Masses of local solar power in the south… well, it looks like masses from the autobahn. Though I don’t know what proportion of energy needs it meets. The BMW plant has pretty impressive solar architecture the pics look pretty , anyway.

            • Tat Loo

              Looks like German renewables share of electricity generation has gone from 8% to 22% over the last ten years. Not bad.

              They suck compared to us though: we’ll hit 90% before long iirc. Which places our country in a very special position.

      • greywarbler 1.1.2

        I hope that our Government is offering help to any NZs affected by the fires. Presumably the Oz Government will be more reasonable after their past neglect but there needs to be help and transport available to very needy people and particularly families that might have lost jobs or homes, and be absolutely skint when they were just managing before.

        They are virtual refugees, our own, so get with it you sloppy pollies and do something for our own. And while you are thinking of responsibilities to people, what about that Afghan interpreter who is in Germany and who you are shouldering out because he doesn’t fit some narrow criteria you have set up. It appears they are being bounced around the Defence Force, the Defence Minister Jonathan Coleman, and the Immigration Minister Michael Woodhouse.

        Getting through your narrow limitations is worse than trying to get an Afghani camel through the eye of a needle. Same for the 6 in Kabul. They are thinking what a lot of bull you talk, and need help from the officials over there which apparently has been reluctantly given. They are now being asked to make their third application.

        Are you trying to freeze them out the poor sods. I hope that you are not encouraging the NZ officials there to be like Bennett’s Nazi WINZ men and women here.

  1. chris73 2


    – This is bullsh*t, I read this a while back (I had just got into The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) and while its not quite my cup of tea its certainly interesting, thought provoking and not salacious at all (though some of the themes are heavy going)

    and on a different note:


    – Always wondered what had happened to him

    • millsy 2.1

      Thats what happens when you start listening to the likes of Bob McCroskie and Colin Craig. Expect more of this as their movements become more prominent.

      They are as bad as the Nazis when it comes to book burning.

      • Tat Loo 2.1.1

        Only really picked up on your idea yesterday of a “Centennial Labour Government”. What a great idea Millsy!

    • Rogue Trooper 2.2

      Interesting; a fairy-tale indoctrination chris73

    • greywarbler 2.3

      He’s in different parts now. (Joke – And he is all right so I’m not being callous.)

  2. miravox 3

    A tale of two solutions to housing shortages. I know I shouldn’t compare, but the differences in vision are stark.


    New Zealand’s largest community housing development involving 282 social and affordable homes on surplus Government land at Weymouth in South Auckland was announced today by Housing Minister Dr Nick Smith and Auckland Mayor Len Brown.

    “This exciting development involves both the Government’s social and affordable housing reforms and will help 113 families into their first home. It will also expand the provision of community and social housing by 169 units,” Dr Smith says.

    Affordable and pleasant

    There are seven development areas which will emerge as new parts of Vienna from various construction sites. In these seven urban developments almost 34,000 persons will find new homes on about 177 hectares. A home means in particular affordable and pleasant living. This is first of all ensured through funding granted by the City of Vienna and, secondly, by attaching great importance in planning to an enjoyable environment for the dwellers with adequate shopping and recreational facilities but also cafes and restaurants. Schools, nurseries and offices are an integral part of the concept. But a well-developed infrastructure is at least as important as the buildings themselves.

    We went out to the opening day of the new underground line to the new Seestadt development last weekend (us z-listers will go to the opening of anything) Amazing to see 30 cranes operating to build the second phase of the development on brownfield land (old airstrip) and transport infrastructure already in place.

    No short-term thinking here – this is a 20-year development with multiple aims, including social housing interspersed with private homes, transport infrastructure, environmental sustainability, business growth and jobs, jobs and more jobs.

    • bad12 3.1

      Good link Miravox, what we stopped doing here in New Zealand as we let the ‘market’ decide for us was this sort of planning around housing needs,

      What is wrong with the current ‘planning’ hastily ‘dreamed’ up by Slippery’s National Government as a ‘political response’ is that the building of such housing here will still be at the whim of the ‘market’,

      It is obvious that in this area of total market failure to meet the demand for affordable housing it is Government’s role to step in and cause the actual building of the numbers of homes needed…

    • karol 3.2

      That Weymouth project was the one that was begun to be scoped under Helen Clark’s watch. not exactly a slippery government intitiative. Looks like it began with Clark & Len Brown’s blessings, and Nick Smith and the Slippery one are only now giving it the green light? What a pathetic, too late, too little effort!!

      • bad12 3.2.1

        Yes Karol, of course you are right, look at everything that the current National Government has accomplished within the area of ‘social housing’ and ALL of it was well into the planning stage at the point Labour lost the 2008 election,

        Much of such planning even by Labour i consider to be part of the ‘Neo-Liberal abdication of responsibility’ from Government as far as affordable housing across the whole spectrum is concerned,

        To be blunt, Labour looked to be only interested in building actual houses for those in the middle class who can immediately afford to buy them, the deliberate downsizing of the HousingNZ stock has with deliberation been assigned as beneficiary only territory while the working poor have been deliberately trapped paying 50%+ of their weekly income to the burgeoning middle class demographic of Landlords,

        Has any of this changed under the new leadership of David Cunliffe, there has been no indication of any such change and we await Labour’s spokesperson on Housing Phil Twyford’s recipe of change if there is to be any…

        • Papa Tuanuku

          The privatisation of Glen Innes, and the blue print to do the same everywhere, which is happening, began under Labour.

        • miravox

          I get the feeling that NZ politicians won’t see the market failure in affordable home until people start living in cars in their own suburbs. As long as people are homeless somewhere else, they’ll keep putting off the problem.

          When they do come to terms with it, I reckon it will be loadsamoney to private developers, private companies to run social housing (not social housing trusts – not to mention the sidelining of the role of the state)… and a massive increase in caravan parks.

    • vto 3.3

      Miravox, recent government-led attempts at property development in New Zealand leave a lot to be desired. Local example – rebuild of central Christchurch. Compare central city progress and standards to fringe city progress and standards. The government’s CCDU aint much chop. Private sector is outperforming them by a massive factor. Government in this arena is performing like miley cyrus – bleeaaargh!

      • miravox 3.3.1

        Is the government actually leading anything in housing in Christchurch? I mean, really, do these people want to provide evidence that the state should be involved in housing?

    • greywarbler 3.4

      Great to know what other countries do that have pollies that have entered the 21st century.

      I think I heard a whisper at the pub, that the leaky homes were being assessed on a standard of whether they were more water tight than a raupo hut. Probably some unreliable drunken joker though.

      • miravox 3.4.1

        Hah! It’s certainly not perfect here – but the local government does has a long-standing housing research department, forward planning and commitment to affordable housing. I think the most pressing problem at the moment is the lack of provision of smaller apartments for younger and single office workers. The council has contracted for a few buildings around town being stripped out and refurbished to deal with that.

        I doubt there would be a leaky home scandal here. Solid builds here – otoh – being from NZ, when I first saw all the brick and masonry apartment blocks my first thought was ‘that’s not going to stand up in an earthquake’. Having said that, I’ve no idea what the earthquake standards are over here… I was told there weren’t any quakes – that was before the 4.5 last month.

  3. Philgwellington Wellington 4

    My theory is we don’t really have a ‘government’. If it looks like corporate interest, and it behaves like corporate interest
    and its called government, it’s
    really corporate interest. Just
    like the USA. Follow the money
    folks! You will understand how it really works.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1


      Our government hasn’t been “our government” for the last thirty years. It’s been the agents of the corporate takeover.

      • muzza 4.1.1

        Expect it goes back much longer than than…

        How is it allowed to happen, get digging!

        • Draco T Bastard

          Expect it goes back much longer than than…

          Probably. IIRC, many of the USA’s Founding Fathers didn’t want participatory democracy because the peasants would vote all the wealth into their hands rather than allow it to remain in the hands of the rich and so they made the US a representative democracy. As far as I can make out, this is where the fear of “mob rule” came from.

          • McFlock

            hence the electoral college, rather than the vote directly electing the president

            Modeled on Rome, rather than a more inclusive version of greek democracy.

      • Paul 4.1.2


    • greywarbler 4.2

      Yes not fair. We are the dingy dinghy bobbing behind the behemoth of the stately ship The United States of America, we still haven’t got anything half as good as Disneyland, and our own theme park area is being taken over by corporate interests, to be demolished by miners (sing, underground, over-ground, wombleing free) or salivated over by resource drillers who might be miners or for energy or water suckers.

      At the end there’ll be just us suckers left and we won’t have a playground with any amenities.
      Just a sad lonely swing that creaks in a sinister manner even though there’s nothing moving.

    • aerobubble 4.3

      I disagree, the problem is we fall for the idea that National is competent, that they are even capitalists, they aren’t, they want power by any legal means however harmful to long term outcomes. A good business, corporation, does not work like that, its just we have so few good business CEO in NZ, its just too easy to paddle in the shit stream coming from our lazy small parliament. We need a upper Chamber to expose how laughably shortsighted the lower house is when it comes to making law. Hell, Winston would be great in there 😉

      • Draco T Bastard 4.3.1

        that they are even capitalists, they aren’t

        Yes they are. You just fail to accept that capitalism is just another form of feudalism. Although you do seem to realise it:

        they want power by any legal means however harmful to long term outcomes.

        We need a upper Chamber to expose how laughably shortsighted the lower house is when it comes to making law.

        The US has one of those – they just had to shut down the government.

        An upper house really doesn’t answer the problems as the upper house will be drawn from the same partisans. The only solution is a participatory democracy where the administration actually does what the people want rather than what the corporations want.

        • Bill

          The only solution is a participatory democracy where the administration actually does what the people want rather than what the corporations want.

          That’s just a description of representative democracy with some wishful thinking tacked on the end. There are systemic reasons why representative administrations will never do what people want over the long term.

          Far better to push for an actual participatory democracy rather than a feel-good nicety-nice representative one. So…a particpatory democracy where we, the people, are the multiple administrations – administrative systems that we form and dissolve according to our given situations – and that absolutely ensure that what is done is what we want.

  4. karol 5

    Another excellent bit of analysis from MattL at the Auckland Transport blog, on how their planned Congestion Free Network saves money – partly from its positive effects and partly by scrapping costly and useless road projects.

  5. Rogue Trooper 6

    Younger: Man’s Inhumanity to Man

    More Sheep Flock to Pinstripes

    NZ First to “KiwiFund”

    -but Colin Craig is promising to “knock Winston off his perch” (with laughter)…”us versus NZ First, played out with Greypower”.

    Now who is up for a Brazilian Libra ? :Chinese and Indian state-owned a shoe-in.

    • greywarbler 6.1

      Colin Craig is dreaming….
      Lovely bird mate. Lovely parrot.
      What do you call it?
      Oh Winston it’s called. Say hello Winston. Oh I think he’s gone to sleep on his perch. He’s tired after a long squwark??.
      That is a dead parrot! It has ceased to be.
      No no mate. There is life in the old bird yet.

  6. richard 7

    Just another day at the Overseas Investment Office; just another 4,000 ha of land to be alienated from NZ ownership —

  7. bad12 8

    Whatever we think of NZFirst and Winston Peters you have to admit that He certainly has His nose attuned to which way the political wind is blowing,

    In what looks like a large leap to the left Winston is not only proposing a Government provided KiwiSaver but also a Government insurer,

    You forgot one Winston, how about a Government retailer of electricity to compliment KiwiPower, ensure prices savings are passed on to consumers and introduce real price competition into the retail pricing of electricity…

    • Rogue Trooper 8.1

      NZ First certainly deserve the seats handed to them. It’s an ageing population at one end.

    • vto 8.2

      Winston Peters should stay firmly in opposition. In fact, he should campaign on staying in opposition. He is bloody useless once in government – gets all carried away, wraps himself in baubles, rants and wanders, gets in stoushes and finally the whole edifice comes crashing down. Nobody benefits.

      He is more effective in opposition.

    • northshoreguynz 8.3

      The Herald running interference again.

      Seems to me that some, and I emphasise some, of NZFirst and the Labour Party policies aren’t that far apart in ideology.

      • richard 8.3.1

        I guess they feel they have to run interference as Key rejected the idea – which effectively rules out working with NZF after the election.

        Prime Minister John Key has dismissed NZ First’s policy to create a state-run, locally focused KiwiSaver fund.

        NZ First would not form a coalition, or even sign a confidence and supply agreement, with any party not willing to adopt it as government policy.


      • bad12 8.3.2

        Across the spectrum, :Labour/Green/NZFirst/Mana,(and i will add here Maori Party although i see that Party facing political oblivion), there is MUCH that they all have in common with each other in the policy arena,

        As a ‘leftist’ attempting to look forward past the 3 yearly electoral cycle i am dearly hoping for Labour/Green as the numbers are tending to suggest to gain 50% of the vote in 2014,

        Looking ahead tho i think much more could be done by the left fostering a far larger coalition which would include ALL the parties listed above as a coalition should they all be represented in the Parliament after the elections in 2014,

        What i am suggesting is a coalition that over numerous elections has at least, if not more, then 50% of the popular vote where such could be an effective Government of the left over at least 4 terms and preferably as far as a 5 term Government,

        What Peters and NZFirst have come out of their annual conference advocating, the Government becoming an insurer and the Government becoming a provider in the KiwiSaver mix is hardly outrageous and i would advocate the Government becoming far far more involved in many other areas of business where once a successful business has been established the shareholdings could be transferred into funds such as ACC and the Cullen retirement Fund,

        What 30 years of Neo-liberal wankerism has or should have taught us all is that ‘the market’ in New Zealand has been a FAILURE in so many ways on so many levels that ‘the Government’ does and must have a role and involvement in business far above that of simply setting rates of taxation and industry regulation, Government must also assume the role of catalyst in new areas of business as well as old…

        • Lanthanide

          Yes, Key getting the MP on in the first term ended up saving their bacon for the second term.

          It’s good politics. Whether or not Cunliffe would be willing to rope Winston in even if his votes weren’t required is hard to say, though.

        • northshoreguynz

          Is there any mileage in A Grand Alliance, one that locks up at least 55% of the vote, that, in theory anyway, should ensure at least three, and possibly more terms?

    • Lanthanide 8.4

      We already have a lot of competition in electricity retail.

      The cause of the price hikes have been lines companies (no competition) and generators (no genuine competition).

    • aerobubble 8.5

      Winston is right of center, so he appeals more to National voters view of the world, so why would you, when you have a uncomfortable story about Key’s govt want to give it to Winston. Well because he speaks to National voters better than a Green or a Labour MP. And if he’s wrong, well thats a burnt right of center MP thats self-harmed. Win-win.

  8. Chooky 9

    What is happening in Auckland?….Chief Exec, Head of Communications, Head of Legal, Chief Financial Officer ….all either resigned , resigning or potentially resigning

    It seems to be a Council in disarray….why?….usually when so many top people resign at the same time there are serious governance, management and morale issues

    ….See Ad’s post…it needs revisiting:

    Ad 19
    20 October 2013 at 7:22 am

    ……We need to get back to debating the agenda of the Council. At the moment, the Council will lose its Chief Executive within months, has lost its Head of Communications, head of Legal, and (if a successful CE candidate) their Chief Financial Officer. It is highly likely to lose more. Like it or not, the staff at Council are a whole lot more powerful than these politicians who meet very occasionally.

    We also currently have a Council with no Committee structure, no Committee delegations, and no functioning democracy at all. Five of the new Council are brand new and either have no Council experience or none playing at this level.

    This is for steering an entity far larger in its assets than Fonterra.

    We have a Unitary Plan preparing for public hearings which the Government has determining it will select the Commissioners for.

    We have Cabinet decisions coming down the pipeline that will currently greatly expand motorway investment and do very little for public transport.

    You people are obsessed with the media when the policy content and all the other players underneath the Council that will make it happen are far more at risk. Change your viewfinder quickly.

  9. aerobubble 10

    Garth McVicar turned up again on the Nation, this time,
    to talk about the defense laywer his friend who committed
    suicide. Bad things happen to good people, successful
    lawyers do breakdown and commit suicide; innocent people
    are drawn into and become harmed by heinous crimes; but
    you’ll never hear McVicar say a person convicted of a crime
    might be innocent, and that the rub for me because justice
    is all about balance and assuaging bias.

    McVicar cannot be trusted.

    But on the Nation he went further, in a disgraceful display of a
    mix of ignorance, false pleading and self-victimization.

    McVicar declared his friend had been taken from him, so he
    was a victim of a crime, the crime of suicide. Yet, he claims
    the man who would have joined his cause was a great lawyer,
    and by inference would not have know suicide was a crime.

    I ask you in all of Christendom what was the man thinking!

    How could someone hoping to speak for the victims of crime
    have wanted a criminal in his organization. But wait, its worse!

    Suicide is a mental state, a derangement of the mind, what
    in all of Christendom was McVicars thinking when he was
    declaring that the time of this expert lawyer derangement would
    have made such a great colleague in his cause.

    McVicar ignored, was ignorant of the legal fact that suicide is a crime.

    To my mind McVicar must have so hated this poor man that he was
    willing to go on the record, the only other way to see this, is to
    suggest that this man is a very poor voice for victims rights to not
    worry about pleading for victims, victimize himself, and to want to
    engage deranged criminals in his cause.

    Seriously, suicide victims are many, we live on after loved ones kill
    themselves, what does McVicar not get? That pleading for the
    perpetrator to the crime of suicide would be such a great friend of
    his cause, how would that make suicide victims feel?

  10. Draco T Bastard 11


    So the Nobel committee could recognize Fama the Younger, awarding him the prize for his work on unpredictability. But it could distance itself from the silliness of Fama the Elder, by having the Younger share the award with Shiller. And that is how the most astute critic of the efficient-market hypothesis helped its creator win a Nobel Prize in economics.

  11. lprent 12

    Damn. Outage earlier..

    The CDN/storage updates that were meant to allow me speed up the site caused more CPU at the web server.

    Turned off the CDN/storage until I can look at it tonight. Turned up the number of cores on both the webserver and the database server

  12. johnm 13

    IMHO This “government” Intend to and are already copying the Draconian harassment and punitive sanctions regime applied to bennies of the hell bound sold out (Sold out because they’ve privatised everything in sight)clapped out U$K, that slavish puppet of the collapsing U$$$$$$$.

    I just hope it doesn’t get as bad here as this in the shameful Tory Toff hell of a greed cesspool:

    ” Cancer killed my husband, but Atos took his dignity a long time before his death”
    19 Oct 2013 00:00
    Widow Lyn Coupe has vowed to fight in her dead husband’s name to overturn the decision to axe his £50-a-week incapacity benefit

    Comment: “Cameron and his buddies are true psychopathic serial killers, except they can do it with impunity. How many deaths are they responsible for in this country? Probably runs into thousands since they have been in power. Like a bully they love to kick people when they’re down and they don’t care if it’s a man, woman or child.”


    Hope XTASY’s OK?

    • johnm 13.1

      Now that we’ve reached the end of growth and the endless creation of debt based money supply. Plus we’ve totally maxed out our credit card with the environment, we are now witnessing the Cannibalisation of the people’s Commonwealth as follows:

      1. Privatisation into private hands of the nations commonly held assets. The U$K is currently flogging of the NHS and the Royal Mail.

      2. Attacks on the entitlements of the unemployed and sick and disabled to make their money available for the private interests who are destroying U$K society .

      3.The current U$K Tory Government doesn’t understand that a paradigm shift is happening and are determined to support their aspirations my making the ordinary Brit pay for them by a return to Dickensian cruelty.


    • greywarbler 13.2

      Xtasy seems to have been looking at Chile lately. If he knows Spanish he may like to give a translation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67b5oTV7nWA

      Open mike 18/10/2013


      Open mike 18/10/2013

      bad 12
      i don’t take kindly to the deliberate insults X has taken to tossing around and have deliberately, having ‘had words’ with that one previously where he/she has gone off the deep end, shrugged off the insults,

      Open mike 18/10/2013

      If someone has a rant then you don’t have to take it personally or react against it on behalf of us all. What about, if you can’t say anything supportive and the person irritates you just by their approach, say nothing. Everybody who comes to The Standard is unhappy about something that is going on and some are having a harder time than others, just saying something about it can be therapeutic. And much of it is just not about oneself personally, it extends to a general unsettling anxiety, a lack of hope for an improvement for everyone ‘going forward’.

      • bad12 13.2.1

        Pfft, Hogwash, in my world such insults as X was tossing around in the wee small hours of the other morning are demanding of a reply far more energetic than that which i supplied,(in consideration of that ones mental state at the time),

        Your comment Greywarbler in consideration of the way you have presented it is fucking dishonest and in effect appears to highlight just one thing in that the grey matter inside your head looks from here to be shit brown,

        The link you have given to readers is not a reply to the comments you have linked to and you obviously fucking know this yet choose to behave in a devious dishonest portrayal of myself in a supposed reply to X,

        The comments i made to and about X on the morning of 18/10/2013 were directly addressed to a comment that X made in ‘Open Mike’ number 37 at 2.48am on that morning, yet you choose to not link to that comment made to X and instead insinuate by omission that i am commenting to the links you provide,


      • bad12 13.2.2

        Ps, what does the word i signify to you at the start of that particular comment??? i says that i am replying to X on behalf of no-one but me, some people are just dense…

    • Draco T Bastard 13.3

      How many deaths are they responsible for in this country?

      I’m starting to wonder just how many deaths our government is responsible for and if there’s there’s any way we can charge the bastards.

    • Tim 13.4

      “IMHO This “government” Intend to and are already copying the Draconian harassment and punitive sanctions regime applied to bennies of the hell bound sold out (Sold out because they’ve privatised everything in sight)clapped out U$K, that slavish puppet of the collapsing U$$$$$$$.”

      Why not? In the absence of a Nat politician equipped with his or her intelligent life form and beating blood pump (sometimes known as a heart) that places them above blind ambition, ideology. and a ‘dear leader’ is yet to be discovered. They have 3/5ths of SFA of an idea to rub together with the other 2/5ths of an esprayshunally collective in waiting.

      (I’m gonna watch “The Block” tonight). I hear the Bunnings taps chosen are going to be simply fucking gorgeous

  13. captain hook 14

    wailoil be a piece of sh*t is beginning to look more and more like someone who has had too many cheezeburgers.

  14. North 15

    Tut Tut Tut ! How repugnant, how egregious of Teina Pora at 38 years of age to pursue a sexual liaison and to seek the association of a friend. Human, lawful behaviours denied him by an evil fit-up which endures 20 years on !!!


    Meanwhile those who fitted him up are free to pursue their lives as they please, including associations of the type sought by this victim of the grossest travesty.

    It’s cruelly ironic that on top of the specific matters considered by the Parole Board one of the grounds for denial of parole seems to be a potential not to handle life on the outside after 7,300 days and nights on the inside. Also seemingly that he was not saint-like honest about behaving as a human being after 20 years.

    For the justice system to continue abusing Teina Pora on account of the above piss-nothing expressions of being human is no less repugnant than the acid thrower holding the victim to account for the horrendous scarring the victim bears. Of course after 20 years of incarceration it should not frighten the horses that he seeks to exercise his sexuality or to exercise fraternal bonds. To then go “tut tut tut you weren’t honest with us and you’re not fit” is utterly risible.

    There must be a change to the Parole Act to ensure that in cases such as Teina Pora’s the Parole Board cannot impose ridiculously unrealistic conditions which inevitably will be breached because the conditions demand of the parolee an effective inhumanity.

    As it is the law looks an absolute ass. Worse, in so righteously focusing on Teina Pora’s culpability in expressing the humanity which to his credit he retains after 20 years, the justice system is permitted to take focus off its grievous moral and physical culpability in his case.

    Meanwhile a number of highly respected former policemen are enjoying the pleasant weather from their retirement homes, playing golf, or fishing, or having a beer with their mates ???

    Given what we now know about this travesty Teina Pora should not be sitting around in prison at the pleasure of the slowly turning wheels of “justice” and several individuals possessed with statutory power to further victimise him in effect, thus further humiliating the justice system.

    The law can and must be changed.

  15. aerobubble 16

    Blood girl found in Gypsy home. Just out of interest, do Police run parental tests on kids found in P labs? Should any case of child abuse immediately mean a dna parental verification?

  16. Treetop 17

    I think that when paternity is disputed in NZ the person named as being the biological father has to pay child support and for the DNA test when not the father in order to cease payments.

    The case of the young girl found in a Gypsy home warrants investigation due to the likelyhood of not being the carers child. Probably when the suspicion is so great proof is required.

    Children found in P labs this is a child protection issue.

  17. Rogue Trooper 19

    Why We Need To Politicize The Bushfires (Mega-)
    from The Guardian

  18. Rogue Trooper 20

    The TPP and US Foreign Policy

  19. http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/events-shifting-strongly-len-browns-favour-pundit-ck-147245

    Interesting that Auckland Council CEO Doug McKay has ‘asked Ernst and Young to conduct an independent review of the use of council resources in the mayoral office’ – when he, Ernst and Young (and Nigel Morrison, CEO of Sky City) are all members of the Committee for Auckland?

    (Who must be horrified at how this has got so horribly ‘out-of-hand’ – as it were).


    MAJOR ‘conflicts of interest’ here, in my considered opinion.

    Time for an NZ ‘Independent Commission Against Corruption’.

    In the meantime – time for the SFO (purportedly the ‘lead’ agency in fighting corruption in NZ) to use their powers to do a VERY thorough investigation -particularly of the use of Sky City – in ANY way by Len Brown, during his illicit affair with Bevan Chuang.

    I’m looking forward to the future by-election…….

    Penny Bright


  20. Morrissey 23

    “If everybody around us was acting abominably”
    Principled broadcasters cogitate about those wicked Germans

    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Monday 21 October 2013
    Jim Mora, David Farrar, Julia Hartley Moore

    On National Radio this afternoon it’s been a big day on the morality front. Jim Mora is obviously still affected by an interview he has conducted with a woman about the phenomenon of the Schreibtischtäter (“desk murderers”) in Nazi Germany, i.e. the women who helped the Nazis to run their wicked, criminal state. Just before the Panel pre-show segment gets started with Jessica Maddock’s round-up of world news, Jim makes a few solemn observations about moralité and courage….

    JIM MORA: A reader recommends we read a book written by the daughter of Hans Frank, who was hanged as a war criminal at Nuremberg in 1946. …[Deep sigh to indicate moral seriousness]…. We like to think we would stand apart, don’t we, if everybody around us was acting abominably.

    JULIA HARTLEY MOORE: It’s a problem when the WOMEN start acting like that.

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


    I am sure many listeners mused on just how the brave and moral souls, including the women, on Jim Mora’s Panel would have behaved in Nazi Germany.

    I think we would all agree that there’s little doubt how David Letterman would have behaved….

    Open mike 24/12/2012

    Keep watching “Open Mike” over the next few days to see how Jim Mora and co. would likely have behaved in Nazi Germany…

    • McFlock 23.1

      [any relationship with any conversation on The Panel that actually took place is purely coincidental]
      cf: the first two minutes

      • Lanthanide 23.1.1

        Wow. Just wow.

      • Morrissey 23.1.2

        Jim Mora said all those things, and he sighed like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders too, just as I recorded. Ms. Hartley Moore made that comment too.

        But YOU are trying to say I made up this little conversation. You’ll transcribe that for us then? There’s a good fellow.

        • McFlock

          I’m not going to be a full-time amanuensis just because you’re a fucking idiot.
          It’s within the first two minutes of the recording I linked to. Anyone who wants to see just how much of a liar you are (again) can go there.

          • Lanthanide

            I didn’t even hear this supposed sigh. Seems more like a standard inhalation one makes when talking after long sentences.

            • Morrissey

              I didn’t even hear this supposed sigh. Seems more like a standard inhalation one makes when talking after long sentences.

              These things are subtle. Your interpretation is just as valid as mine. Jim Mora has a habit of making these heartfelt sighs whenever a difficult or trying problem comes up. I have often described them as “baffled sighs”, but then again maybe this afternoon it was more like you say, just inhaling.

          • Morrissey

            I’m not going to be a full-time amanuensis….
            I think you should reconsider. It really would be a useful way to use your talents.

            ….just because you’re a fucking idiot.
            ?!?!? Really? Why so?

            It’s within the first two minutes of the recording I linked to. Anyone who wants to see just how much of a liar you are (again) can go there.

            This is a bit sad really. I don’t like to see someone humiliate himself like you are doing by engaging in this bizarre little campaign of yours. You know, if you had simply pointed out that my rendition of that little display of hypocrisy this afternoon was not word-perfect, you’d have been fine.

            But, unwisely and rashly, you’ve made the stupid accusation that I am making it up. Anyone who listened to the program this afternoon will know I did not make anything up.

            With your extreme language, you’ve put yourself way out on a limb.

            Silly fellow.

            • McFlock

              I’m not your employee, you egotistical fuckwit.

              You’re welcome to link to the datestamp or recording that you did actually transcribe accurately, and I will retract.

              At the moment, as far as I can tell you’ve grossly misrepresented what was said to a massive level.

              Gimme a link or a timestamp – was it further in to the recording? Maybe you’ll learn something about how good it is to accurately say what your source is supposed to be.

              • Morrissey

                I’m not your employee, you egotistical fuckwit.

                Say, I LIKE that sentence. It has rhythm, and balance, and a certain je ne sais quoi—-or in English, zing!

                May I use it for a playscript I’m preparing? Please?

                • McFlock

                  yeah, you can follow it up with “suck my balls”

                  I take it you’ll be admitting that the script is almost complete fiction, unlike here?

                  • Morrissey

                    I take it you’ll be admitting that the script is almost complete fiction, unlike here?

                    You know, your display of bad temper and crude lack of generosity doesn’t bolster your flailing efforts one little bit. You can call me a liar as often as you like; the fact is I have a substantial body of work on this site, none of it made up. None of it.

                    Well, okay, I did have Leitermann’s moronic audience chanting “Heil, Heil, Heil!” which was obviously not literally true. But it did capture the Nuremberg Rally atmosphere which prevailed in the presence of that race-baiting, lying “comedian” Sacha Baron Cohen.

                    Otherwise, it’s strictly transcripts of villainous, hypocritical, sanctimonious commentators laughing their heads off, all the way to the lounge bar. As you know perfectly well, of course. And resent, what with you supporting some of the reprobates I’ve held up for inspection.

                    • McFlock

                      the fact is I have a substantial body of work on this site, none of it made up. None of it

                      Do you say that as a continuation of surrealist performance art, or simply because you received a severe blow to the head?

                      In the fabrication that is comment 23, about 90% of the excerpt (including the context, spirit and intent of the discussion) is fabricated. Go back to my link in 23.1, and compare them word for word, and even general point for point. They are nothing alike.

                      I cannot comprehend how someone can be so stupid, yet still work a computer. So you’re a barefaced liar. But I see no benefit to the lies if they are intentional, and that just leaves performance art – but really?

                    • Morrissey

                      “surrealist performance art….you received a severe blow to the head…. fabrication 90% … fabricated…. stupid…. you’re a barefaced liar…. lies…. performance art…”

                      That’s a litany of abuse, and a display of calculated dishonesty that would give even an ACT campaign manager pause for thought.

                      As I have pointed out to you several times now, my substantial body of work trumps your abuse. You can make your baseless, foolish accusations as often as you like, but they don’t bestow the slightest credibility to your disastrous case.

                      If you had corrected one of my inadvertent mistakes or objected to the tone or accuracy of one or more of my descriptors, that might have constituted intelligent and thoughtful criticism. As it is, all you have to offer is that rancid, limp stream of abuse.

                      Here it is again, in condensed form: “surrealist performance art….severe blow to the head…. fabrication …. 90% fabricated…. stupid…. you’re a barefaced liar…lies….”

                      Gosh that really is sad. I feel concerned for you. Are you sober?

                    • vto

                      I don’t understand why Morrisey comes in for such heat. Morrisey, your reviews of the panel are amusing imo. Clearly your take on the show is a personal assessment, which is fine. Reading them puts a ring and zing around Jim’s show now – his show is tainted by your near daily assessments. Some nob utters something utterly foolish or ill-informed and sure enough there it is in all its Morrisey-glory a short while later.

                      Most amusing.

                      Perhaps someone could do a Morrisey review review…. oh, wait a minute ….

                    • McFlock

                      Your substantial body of work is a huge pit of electronic silage.

                      you kindly provided a transcript which is reasonably accurate, it is substantially different to your original “transcript” of the same recording, and you still claim to be accurate?

                      I’m stone cold sober, but I fear I’m talking with someone in the Twilight Zone.

                      Yes, I swear and call you names. The reason is that assuming anyone would believe your shit is quite obviously intended to be an enormous fucking insult.

                    • Morrissey

                      Thank you for the kind words, vto, your support and encouragement really is appreciated.

                      Perhaps someone could do a Morrisey review review….

                      I’ve already been flattered with a parody of my work by my good friend Te Reo Putake. It wasn’t all bad, but it could have been a bit sharper. Dave Armstrong won’t hire him on the strength of yesterday’s little send-up.

                    • felix

                      “Some nob utters something utterly foolish or ill-informed and sure enough there it is in all its Morrisey-glory a short while later.”

                      Or, as is usually the case, some nob utters something boring and Morrissey invents a far more exciting fantasy conversation which he then insists is “near word perfect” and “none of it made up”.

                      Yeah, sometimes it’s funny, but he’s presenting these stories as actual quotes from real people when they’re just not. He even attributes quotes to people that are the exact opposite of what they said.

                      It’s no different from what Cameron Slater does and I have no idea why such blatant lies are allowed to be presented as fact on this site.

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      It wasn’t a parody, it was a piss take. Took about five minutes and it’s still a work of genius compared to your steaming mounds of bullshit. How’s that apology coming on, liar?

        • felix

          “But YOU are trying to say I made up this little conversation. You’ll transcribe that for us then? There’s a good fellow.”

          Can’t prove a negative, Moz. But McF has supplied a link to the audio and after listening to it, I can’t hear any of the things you claim.

          “Jim Mora said all those things”

          Please indicate where he said those things. The link to the audio has been provided for you. All you have to do is listen to it and write down the time in mins and secs where each statement occurs.

          “and he sighed like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders too, just as I recorded.”

          Again, please note the time.

          “Ms. Hartley Moore made that comment too.”

          Again, please note the time. If you’re right, and your transcript is accurate, then simply posting the exact time each statement was made will easily clear the matter up.

          • Morrissey

            Here you go: a word-perfect transcript. I think you’ll agree that anyone who listens to the tape, looks at the script and then compares it with my admittedly imperfect rush transcript/rendition will agree that, contrary to our friend McFlock’s crazed allegations, I catch the tone—of faux seriousness—pretty much perfectly. I believe that Jim Mora’s supposedly concerned conjectures about moral behaviour under pressure have to be considered in the light of his own abominable behaviour and the chilling exhibition of group-think by most of his guests whenever he expresses scorn and contempt for the victims of state-run vendettas…..

            [STARTS at 1:25….

            JIM MORA: And your question, says Elaine, about whether each of us would be morally independent of the overall group view is a good one and the answer is: probably not. ……[Pause]….. Yeah, we were saying in that interview, you know, if you were in Nazi Germany in the 1930s, to what extent would you have resisted if everybody around you was behaving abominably? I mean you’d like to think that you’d stand apart and be noble and you—-

            JULIA HARTLEY MOORE: But the reality is that the pressure, you know—exactly right. I just think, you know, that when women do stuff like this, many times I think women can be far worse than men.

            JIM MORA: Or so it seems, in certain cases.

            JULIA HARTLEY MOORE: Yeah.

            JIM MORA: [sigh] Ah, the book Hitlers Furies. ….[Suddenly brightens up] Nice to see you! Ha ha ha! Sorry I’ve roped you in on the conversation right away! I don’t think we’ve got David Farrar yet….

            …..ENDS at 2:09]

            • Tim

              “his own abominable behaviour and the chilling exhibition of group-think”.

              Jim doesn’t actually ever THINK. He simply agrees with everything – how else could he possibly be the nicest man on Earth?

              O hell … it’s 9:57 pm … I’m pekish. I wonder if that healthy fast food Subway is open. It’s an OK option taken in moderation. Loverly!

              • Morrissey

                Try Carl’s Jr. some time, Tim. I highly recommend it.

                • Tim

                  … but does the nicest lady on Earth own it – and do they serve Lambie with bits of greenery served up by poor bastards on minimum wage?
                  I need to be able to satisfy my cravings for good, clean, conservative food (in moderation) and be able to look down on those aspirational staff members busting for a leak, content in the knowledge that I’m ‘considerably richer than they’ are, and who are loathe to take a piss break for fear their pay will be docked.
                  Afternoons is a bit like that TV smaltz she used to host – without the pictures, but complete with subtle Natty advertorials.

            • McFlock

              But morrissey, if you never made up a single thing (“none of it made up. None of it.”) and, indeed, your transcripts are near word-perfect (as you’ve recently claimed), how can your two “transcripts” be so fundamentally different?

              • Morrissey

                ….how can your two “transcripts” be so fundamentally different?

                That is my point: they are not fundamentally different. My rush transcript (which as you and others are quite right to point out, is not perfect) has the germ of Jim Mora’s comment, and just as importantly, the spurious and cynical pretence at engagement with a moral issue.

                Someone listening to that show for the first time ever this afternoon may well have taken his solicitous tone as genuine. But as you and I know, his record of laughing, guffawing and snorting at the victims of state terror casts doubt on that.

                My transcript—or as you might justly prefer, my sketchy impression—was not fundamentally different from the full transcript. Just not as complete.

                • McFlock

                  If your target was Mora, why invent the JHM comment?

                  ” the spurious and cynical pretence at engagement with a moral issue” is completely your invention. Your perspective. Your interpretation. So it’s not an accurate reflection of The Panel, it’s a reflection of your interpretation of what went on. You can either stick with ACTUAL near-word-perfect transcripts, or you can make up caricatures of your interpretations of the vibe of what you heard, but to invent the caricatures and then insist that they’re even fundamentally similar to what was actually said is akin to spitting in your audience’s face.

                • felix

                  So if they’re no different then why won’t you make a note of the times of the statements from your first transcript?

                  It would be far, far quicker and easier than all that typing and would prove once and for all that there was “none of it made up. None of it.”

              • felix

                And why go to all the trouble of writing the second transcript when all he needed to do was note the times of the totally-not-made-up statements and secret sighs in the first transcript?

            • Te Reo Putake

              Wow, now you’re even proving yourself to be inaccurate, yet you still don’t see it. No wonder you won’t apologise for lying. You have no compass for the truth, no sense of the essence of a conversation and you’d rather be thought of as an idiot than accept criticism from others.

              All while making unfounded and pointless criticisms of a typically light afternoon talk radio show. Fluffy radio show is fluffy. Well done for spotting that Moz.

              Still waiting for the apology for your lies, Moz. Still waiting, you lying sack ‘o’ shit.

              • Morrissey

                Sorry, Te Reo, but I just haven’t got the time to reply to your (sadly abuse-laden, fact-free) contribution now. I’ll address it some time tomorrow on Open Mike 22 October.

                I recommend you go to bed and run through a few more names to call me. The ones you’ve been using are getting tired. (That’s because they have no substance to them.)

                Sleep tight, my hatchet-wielding friend.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Fuck fuck fuckity off, then you lying, cowardly sack ‘o’ shit. Your chickenshit excuses can’t hide your weakness.

          • Morrissey

            Your substantial body of work is a huge pit of electronic silage.
            Errr, isn’t silage a good thing?

            I’m stone cold sober,
            Good. You seem to have calmed down a bit too. You’re back to your old self again.

            ….but I fear I’m talking with someone in the Twilight Zone.
            Arrrrggghhhh! We can discard the theory about McFlock going straight.

            Yes, I swear and call you names. The reason is that assuming anyone would believe your shit is quite obviously intended to be an enormous fucking insult.
            Oh come on, McFlock, let’s dispense with the throwing of horseshit for a while. How about you try critiquing me for a while without the obligatory side-order of abuse? But really I think both of us need a good sleep now. I have to leave, unfortunately.

            Adieu, mon ami.

            • Te Reo Putake

              Fuck off then, you coward. You’re not even skilled enough to be a jonolist.

              • Morrissey

                Gosh, you do know that crude language doesn’t make a lie one bit less of a lie, or an insult one whit cleverer? Don’t you?


                Please don’t waste your time shouting abuse like that. It only makes you look bad.

                Then again, maybe it plays well down there in Hurricanes country….

                • Te Reo Putake

                  You know all about lying, Moz. It’s pretty much all you’ve got. Nice to see you keeping up the stalking though. Nice sideline, creep.

            • McFlock

              Je ne suis pas votre ami, Guy

              • Morrissey

                Je ne suis pas votre ami, Guy


                • McFlock

                  not bloody likely

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    Indeed. “vous n’êtes pas mon guy, ami” would have been ‘touche’, if I remember my schoolboy french-canadian correctly. Simply repeating the phrase is a fail in any language.

                  • Tim

                    The very best thing about Moz the Morrisey is that he/she stirs fire in the belly (Burp). It’s been sadly lacking of late.
                    Moz – I do wonder about your health though – transcribing anaesthetic for the masses just seems like an exercise in elevating a complete load of kaka to undeserved high status.
                    60’s ZB, Afternoons, Radio NZ National – brought to you by Rinso – the housewife’s choice and the nicest man on Earth with the best song ever written! Whites are whiter, colours are brighter. Wipe it up wipe it up with XLO

                    • Tim

                      Please assure me you’re OK though … I’ll save ya a bit of Lambie on brown – (minus the olives)

                    • felix

                      “I do wonder about your health though – transcribing anaesthetic for the masses just seems like an exercise in elevating a complete load of kaka to undeserved high status.”

                      What the fuck would Moz know about transcribing? His comment above at is literally the first time he has ever tried it.

    • The Al1en 23.2

      Big boyz and girlz you say, Rogue? 🙄

      So that’s what a grown up internet peer group, gang bang kick-a-thon looks like.
      e-peen sword fighting for beginners 😆

      • felix 23.2.1

        Are you still upset about being called on your passive/aggressive victim bullshit?

        Poor baby.

        • The Al1en

          I don’t even know what you’re on about, catman, but it would be a good bet to say you haven’t got gifting an own goal to kong the other night out of your system yet. Look, don’t blame the guy who provides the ammo just because you shoot yourself in the foot 😉

          I say go hard and vent away. The nhs will provide you with a strap-a-spleen-to-me operation should you wear your old one out 😆
          You might want to ask for some bum kiss cream when you’re in. You must be running low.

      • Rogue Trooper 23.2.2

        I only speak on behalf of myself, and get buy with a little help from my friends. 😀 (to credit grumpy, “it’s a piss poor day when you don’t learn something”)

  21. Jim Nald 24

    Across the Ditch, former PM Malcolm Fraser asks “Can Australia Claim to be a Sovereign Nation?” and asserts “The increasing American attention to the Pacific is bad news for Australians”, while drawing attention to the drone-killing programme ‘Pine Gap’:


  22. October 21st 2013.

    Only two more years!!

    It better happen!

  23. Fender:

    Cool clip, but only the real thing will do. If there is not one by october 21 2015, I
    will lose all faith and bawl like a baby, the hoverboard represents childhood dreams,
    (although I was a teen when the movie came out) if there is not one, my childhood
    will officially be dead, and all that will be left is reality and reality is no friend of the

  24. downton abbey is like taking a bubble-bath..

    ..so so much soap..

    ..coro st in period costume..


    ..phillip ure..

    • Tim 27.1

      .. the answerrrrr loys in the soil! They just haven’t discovered it yet and the Archers seem to have died out

  25. Tim 28

    Fuck me!!! now there’s a winner for Mora’s “Afternoons”. It could follow the best, bestest, better by farrrrr better than bestest song ever written. Could even give Josie Pagani a regular spot immediately after, and perhaps Oik Williams. I’m sure they’d both be “inclined to agree”. RNZ needs a ratings shakeup (ratings of course being of paramount importance for a ‘public service broadcaster’ – especially since its the only one left)

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