Open Mike 21/10/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 21st, 2017 - 87 comments
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87 comments on “Open Mike 21/10/2017”

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  1. Nzsage 1
    21 October 2017 at 6:52 am

    I see Garner is having yet another dig at Labour,the coalition and the process and unilaterally setting a 100 day deadline for Jacinda to deliver his list of Labours election policies.

    The bitterness of the Natz and their MSM puppets will only get worse so the prposed changes to RNZ and TVNZ should also be a 100 day priority.

    See:https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/98090961/duncan-garner–the-accidental-pm-and-the-utopian-expectations

    • eco Maori/kiwi 1.1
      21 October 2017 at 7:45 am

      Yes that is the exactly the advice I would give Nzsage. We can’t have these people damaging OUR new Government and our country’s reputation yes you idiots you are damaging OUR country O but that is a bit to far forward for you to think .
      I think one of OUR more experienced people from Labour or NZFirst anyone with the skills to sort them out but they need to be wise as these people can turn any shit onto you . And put on this task of bringing OUR media to HEEL as this should be a priority plan for the long term of OUR coalition Goverment. We don’t have to control our media but they need a code of conduct slapped on them . Ka pai

    • halfcrown 1.2
      21 October 2017 at 8:51 am

      If it was not so funny it would make you cry over the opinions of some of the prats out there. I wrote yesterday about all the griping going on @ https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-20102017/#comment-1402555 and all the things that were going to happen under Labour.
      With tongue in cheek, I also added a couple of my own. I noticed that the gas had risen in price by 2c a litre and jokingly I said to my wife I should put that on the Standard saying typical Labour have not been in power 1 day and they have already put gas up by 2c

      Would you believe it some twat in the opinions to the article you have quoted has written just that, here’s the quote

      “Wait to inflation gets a grip. Oh it already has petrol rose 2c a litre on day 1”

  2. riffer 2
    21 October 2017 at 7:16 am

    Indeed NZsage. I get the feeling with all this 100 days stuff that MSM expect the new government to deliver policy that:
    a) does everything the way MSM wants it to be done; and
    b) completely solves all the issues within the 100 days.

    This is, obviously, not possible so I fear they are setting up the new Government for failure.

  3. riffer 3
    21 October 2017 at 7:18 am

    Actually, I don’t remember reading in any of the parties manifestos that they will do everything in the first 100 days.

    Is this the MSM snatching something from overseas and trying to apply it to the incoming government?

    It will be interesting seeing hoe the government will get so many things changed, given the amount of Nat members on select committees, I wonder if they will have to resort to creating law under urgency, like national did?

    • tc 3.1
      21 October 2017 at 9:23 am

      Nationals damage will take up to a decade in some cases to fix.

      It’s not going to be easy with this caterwauling going on top of the entrenching and bridge burning to overcome in fixing rail as one example.

      • millsy 3.1.1
        21 October 2017 at 11:20 am

        To paraphrase the other WInston — it is much easier to wreck a country than it is to build it.

  4. Patricia Bremner 4
    21 October 2017 at 7:30 am

    Committees will consist of 3 gov parties plus Nats. They will always be outnumbered.

    The 100 days is for essential items of change Jacinda outlined, mentioning 1 out and 1 in through negotiations.

    MSM can tie themselves in knots. Jacinda will make official announcements as and when to communicate.

    She will tease Garner again, saying ‘God loves a trier’

  5. eco Maori/kiwi 5
    21 October 2017 at 8:15 am

    I actually think this Government is the best fit for equal and fair changes to our systems
    As if any of those neo liberal state servants try and stop Jacinda from making these changes needed Winston Peters will kick there asses to touch. And Jamie will keep the focus on OUR environment. And most of the people in OUR new Coalition Government have the same left principles they just have to have there guard up and trust no one till they no they can be trusted I.E test them first before you give them that trust Tino pai

  6. eco Maori/kiwi 6
    21 October 2017 at 8:30 am

    Many thanks to Barack Obama Bill Bush and John McCain for seeing the big pitcher .
    We are all human’s we all expect to be treated like humans and when this happens OUR world will truly advance for the better of everything on her OUR mother earth.
    I can see that these three family’s love there country and OUR world and are fighting for a equal society . Kia Kaha

    • One Two 6.1
      21 October 2017 at 1:15 pm

      EMK

      You have got the family’s mixed up..

      Why would you thank any of the three you name, other than for showing who the faces are that represent the true ‘enemy’ of lifes existence..

  7. Penny Bright 7
    21 October 2017 at 10:40 am

    NZ WHISTLE-BLOWER ALERT!

    21 October 2017

    Maltese investigative journalist Daphne Caruana-Galizia, played a pivotal role in exposing NZ foreign trusts involvement in corrupt money-laundering – and now she’s dead.

    Daphne Carauna-Galizia was blown to pieces in a car bomb assassination on 16 October 2017.

    https://www.google.co.nz/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/car-bomb-killed-panama-papers-11378880.amp

    Matthew Carauna-Galizia, son:

    “I am never going to forget, running around the inferno in the field, trying to figure out a way to open the door, the horn of the car still blaring, screaming at two policemen who turned up with a single fire extinguisher to use it.

    “They stared at me. “I’m sorry, there is nothing we can do”, one of them said.

    “I looked down and there were my mother’s body parts all around me. I realised they were right, it was hopeless.

    “Who is in the car?”, they asked me.

    “My mother is in the car. She is dead.

    She is dead because of your incompetence.”
    __________________

    Malta scandal exposes New Zealand trusts again

    Neil Chenoweth and Susan Edmunds

    April 28 2017

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/world/91999096/malta-scandal-exposes-new-zealand-trusts-again

    A Malta magistrate is investigating explosive claims of money laundering and corruption that have put New Zealand in the middle of a global cash trail from the family of Azerbaijan president Ilham Aliyev.

    President Aliyev’s daughter, Leyla Aliyeva, is alleged to have channelled more than NZ$1.6 million to senior figures of the Malta government, including Prime Minister Joseph Muscat’s wife.

    These include alleged payments to Panama companies owned by New Zealand trusts set up by the Malta Energy Minister Karl Mizzi and Muscat’s chief of staff, Keith Schembri.

    On April 20, Maltese blogger Daphne Caruana-Galizia reported that she held copies of documents originally stored in a kitchen at Pilatus Bank, which showed that Egrant Inc, a mystery Panama Papers company identified by the Financial Review last year, was secretly owned by the Maltese Prime Minister’s wife, Michelle Muscat.

    In March 2016, a Dubai company controlled by Leyla Aliyeva had transferred US$1.017 million (NZ$1.47 million) marked as a loan into Egrant’s account at Pilatus Bank, Caruana-Galizia reported.

    Joseph Muscat denied the claims, calling it the “biggest political lie in Malta’s history”.

    Caruana-Galizia reported that other payments were made from Leyla Aliyeva’s company to Pilatus accounts held by Egrant as well as Tillgate Inc and Hearnville Inc, two Panama companies that are owned by Schembri and Mizzi, through New Zealand trusts.

    Schembri and Mizzi vehemently deny Caruana-Galizia’s reports. Mizzi has produced audited accounts for his New Zealand trust which shows it as dormant with no assets or income.

    LUXURY YACHTS

    Muscat announced on April 20 that magistrate Aaron Buge would conduct an inquiry into the allegations.

    In a controversial energy deal, the Maltese government in 2013 contracted with a consortium led by the State Oil Company of Azerbaijan Republic (SOCAR), which has financed a string of luxury yachts and homes across the world for the Aliyev family, to build a power station and gasification plant in Malta, with SOCAR taking an 18-year contract to supply LPG to Malta.

    In 2015, Malta’s auditor general questioned €14 million (NZ$22 million) lost on fuel hedging contracts that the government-owned EneMalta took with SOCAR “at ministerial direction” from Mizzi.

    The latest revelations, if substantiated, are an embarrassment for the New Zealand government, which announced an inquiry into its offshore trust laws on April 11 last year, the day after the Financial Review revealed details of how Panama law firm Mossack Fonseca’s Malta agent, BT Nexia, began setting up Tillson, Hearnville and Egrant five days after Muscat’s election victory in 2013.

    Mossack Fonseca’s files were obtained by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists and German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung.

    New Zealand subsequently amended its offshore trusts regime, requiring foreign trusts to file annual accounts with the New Zealand tax office, but with no further restrictions.

    At that time, it appeared the Malta trusts had never been used, after Mizzi and Schembri’s Panama companies were turned down by eight banks who refused to open accounts for them because they were Politically Exposed Persons (PEPs).

    The Panama Papers, however, show repeated cases of overseas investors filing false or implausible sets of accounts with New Zealand lawyers, who have limited means to verify the figures.

    SIGNIFICANT ROLE

    The latest wave of allegations in Malta underline how easily the New Zealand disclosure laws can be avoided, which the new laws do not change.

    If the reports are substantiated, they raise a far more serious picture of money-laundering from one of the most corrupt countries in the world, in which New Zealand’s foreign trusts played a significant role.

    The saga began in February 2016 when Caruana-Galizia revealed that Schembri and Mizzi had set up two Panama companies, Tillgate Inc and Hearnville Inc, owned by the Haast Trust and Rotorua Trust in New Zealand.

    In April 2016, the Financial Review published new details of Schembri and Mizzi’s New Zealand trusts and their attempts to open a bank account in Dubai.

    Mossack Fonseca’s Malta files read like a whodunnit.
    …..”

    RIP Daphne Carauna-Galizia.

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption whistle-blower’.

  8. Pete George 8
    21 October 2017 at 10:49 am

    I had hopes after seeing this leaked Green policy win in the negotiations:

    A referendum on legalising the personal use of cannabis by 2020. Funding for drug and alcohol addiction services will be increased.

    But thinking it through, a referendum in 2020 is 3 years away, presumably legislation would follow, so add another year or two to that.

    But James Shaw just said on The Nation that they haven’t worked out whether it will be a binding referendum or not.

    If not there will be a toothless referendum in three years that the following government will ignore, and if National is back then that's likely.

    A disappointingly soft policy.

    [formatting fixed for clarity. Link added from below. I’ve had a quick look and see we’ve discussed quoting before.

    So to be very clear – either use your own words and be prepared to back up claims of fact, or, if quoting someone else, then cite. This means if you cut and paste from elsewhere you need to provide a link. If the quote is cut and paste but not publicly available (e.g. email or behind a paywall), then name the source and link where you can. If you are quoting someone from offline, then name the source (specifically not vaguely) so others can look it up.

    The reasons for that are that it’s a courtesy to the source; it gives readers a chance to understand the context; and it lessens trolls’ and astroturfers’ ability to push certain lines unchallenged. Please take this as a moderation warning. – weka]

    [just found the last time I moderated you on this which resulted in a 2 week ban. Next time I’ll start doubling the ban times – weka]

  9. adam 9
    21 October 2017 at 10:55 am

    George W Bush gives a speech, and it really quite good. How much is the world up side down? One line from Bush in particular, is stunning.

    Here highlights from Young Turks. With commentary about republican leadership issues.

  10. Ed 10
    21 October 2017 at 10:58 am

    Jonathan Pie on Trump.

  11. tracey 11
    21 October 2017 at 11:00 am

    A few days ago Wayne Mapp was relying on OECD figures to back his view about how great the economy is under National. Lots of growth… would like his comment on the following given it shows growing GDP hasnt solved this problem…

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/07/nz-s-homelessness-the-worst-in-oecd-by-far.html

    • Rob 11.1
      21 October 2017 at 11:17 am

      So Tracey, if you follow the link from the magazine that it came from you may gain a balanced view on what it’s point is. In fact the main title of the article is this;

      “As Cities Grow Worldwide, So Do the Numbers of Homeless.
      Homelessness is more visible and varying definitions prevent global comparisons; experts debate if the problem is even solvable.”

      • adam 11.1.1
        21 October 2017 at 11:43 am

        Experts, and there is the problem. Experts has turned into code for – look our ideological agenda can be hidden behind this vernier of knowledge.

        So Rob will you be out supporting eugenics next? That was a movement full of experts – waxing lyrical about the state of the world.

        • Rob 11.1.1.1
          21 October 2017 at 1:05 pm

          adam , “do I support eugenics”, pffffft. How do you get that from my sentence.

          Do I sit around and wax lyrical about the state of the world. I think there is more than enough people on this site who do that day in / day out.

          adam , I just followed Traceys link back to the original core article that NewsHub commented on. The point I was making is that if you actually read it & it is interesting , its not as supportive to Traceys anti Nat Govt argument as she has been making out.

      • tracey 11.1.2
        21 October 2017 at 4:14 pm

        Rob, Wayne suggests that when the OECD ranks us highly it means the govt is great.He does not delve deeper nor observe IMF pronouncements that counter his world view.

        By Waynes logic, the reverse must, ipso facto, mean the govt is bad. It is Wayne making simplistic conclusions, not me.

        I know that nothing is as simple as it seems.

    • Macro 11.2
      21 October 2017 at 6:04 pm

      Whenever the meme “What a wonderful economy we have – just look at the growth rate!” rears its ugly head, one has always to ask the question – “But what is the economy for?”
      A countries economy is not an end in itself – it is only a means to an end.
      If the one boasting about the wondrous economy cannot say what this wonderful thing is for, then it is just as useless as the wonderful toy that the singer got when he was a boy. It went whizz when it moved, bopped when it stopped, and whirred when it stood still – he never knew just what it was, and I guess they never will.
      The thing is, to worship a means, and not seek the end, is simply idolatry. If the means is not delivering the end, then no matter how wonderful you might think it is – it is useless.
      So what is the economy for, anyway?
      I would answer this question thus:
      “The role of the economy is to deliver the most good, to the most people, over the longest time” If it does not do that, then it is a failing economy.
      The rate of growth may or may not be a useful indicator but only over a short term – take for instance the lack of clean water supplies in Puerto Rico following the Hurricane. One month later only 2/3 of the population have access to potable water.
      This is a slow rate of growth on the provision of a vital human need. But money is pouring into this “Island in an ocean .. a very big ocean” to use the words of Trump at a astonishing rate. ie over the past month the GDP of Puerto Rico would have been off the scale – but just how effective has it been?

      • Carolyn_Nth 11.2.1
        21 October 2017 at 6:25 pm

        Jacinda Ardern on The Nation this weekend according to Newshub:

        Capitalism is a “blatant failure” when it comes to housing the poor, says Jacinda Ardern.
        …

        “What is the point of economic growth when we have some of the worst homelessness in the developed world?”
        …

        “When you have a market economy, it all comes down to whether or not you acknowledge where the market has failed and where intervention is required. Has it failed our people in recent times? Yes. How can you claim you’ve been successful when you have growth roughly 3 percent, but you’ve got the worst homelessness in the developed world?”

        Ms Ardern said her Government wouldn’t measure economic success just on things like GDP.

        “The measures for us have to change. We need to make sure we are looking at people’s ability to actually have a meaningful life, an enjoyable life, where their work is enough to survive and support their families.”

        Asked directly if capitalism had failed low-income Kiwis, Ms Ardern was unequivocal.

        “If you have hundreds of thousands of children living in homes without enough to survive, that’s a blatant failure. What else could you describe it as?”

        Oh how the Nat shills will be spinning on the spot….. hope this kind of narrative can be kept up, and that more mainstreamers really begin to take note of the failures of capitalism, and the need for change.

      • Patricia Bremner 11.2.2
        22 October 2017 at 12:20 am

        Thank you Macro. That is sensible and sound. We need to measure how our actions help or hinder people’s lives.

        Many equate the word economy with money and forget “management of resources”

      • tracey 11.2.3
        22 October 2017 at 2:55 pm

        Great piece macro but I would add to your definition. It must be measured by how it caters for its vulnerable who have a right to thrive not just survive

        • Macro 11.2.3.1
          22 October 2017 at 4:20 pm

          Interestingly around 4000 years ago someone inscribed a piece of wisdom on a clay tablet that has survived until today. I’m afraid I cannot find a link to this because I found this in a book some years back, and it is something that has not been digitized as far as I know.
          Anyway the ancient sage wrote something like this:
          ” The greatness of a king will be judged not on the strength of his armies, but on the way he treats the most vulnerable of his subjects.”
          There have been others to whom this sentiment has been attributed, but as far as I know the Babylonian clay tablet is the first expression. And this from what could be considered the cradle of civilization.

  12. piper 12
    21 October 2017 at 11:09 am

    This mornings The Nation,what delight to see and hear from a true face of compassion, our new vibrant exiting Prime Minister,hope again is in the air optimism and a better future for families and those in need,how exiting.

    • Pete George 12.1
      21 October 2017 at 11:22 am

      Ardern stepped up into the leadership role exceptionally well in August, then lost a bit of ground when campaign weariness and lack of breadth and depth of policy became obvious.

      But she has stepped up further coming out of the negotiations. One notable thing she indicated in The Nation interview was she says she has stood her ground against Winston on immigration, retaining Labour’s position on it.

      It’s a long way to go for her but she generally looks very impressive. Not many successfully rise above hope and ambition to be a successful political leader, but so far she looks very capable.

      Minor quibbles – too much over the top language, especially ‘absolutely’, and while she sounded natural when she first became leader she is starting to sound like she is reciting written language rather than talking naturally. She’s likely to sort that out as she goes.

      • tracey 12.1.1
        21 October 2017 at 4:19 pm

        You probably dont mean to but this comes across as slightly patronising. From what basis do you make these observations? What is your experience I mean.

  13. Ed 13
    21 October 2017 at 11:27 am

    Ardern: capitalism a ‘blatant failure’ for poor children of New Zealand

    “If you have hundreds of thousands of children living in homes without enough to survive, that’s a blatant failure. What else could you describe it as?”

    Ardern was speaking on TV3 show The Nation.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11935456

  14. millsy 14
    21 October 2017 at 12:17 pm

    It will be interesting to see who gets all the jobs at the various SOE and quango boards under the new govt.

  15. Anne 15
    21 October 2017 at 12:33 pm

    Dear oh dear oh dear,

    It looks like dear Claire Robinson is pissed off she was wrong.

    She’s doing a lot of projection from National and placing it at the door of Labour and NZ First. Couched in academic-ese, her petulance and anger is plain to see.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/342071/labour-nz-first-govt-how-did-it-get-to-this

    • Barfly 15.1
      21 October 2017 at 12:48 pm

      RW sycophant spits dummy

    • Incognito 15.2
      21 October 2017 at 1:06 pm

      That’s a piece written by somebody whose (intellectual) world has been rocked because “NZ First has challenged the established business model” [my bold] and her “innovation lens” was out of focus. Robinson seems to be oblivious to the fact that all her (academic) tools & models are just that. Robinson also appears to be at the second of five stages of grief: anger.

      I can only hope that Robinson and many other ‘experts’ will find themselves outwitted and wrong-footed many times as a result of real change rather than the having to endure a “modified status quo” that Robinson seems to pine for.

      • Once was Tim 15.2.1
        21 October 2017 at 4:08 pm

        “I can only hope that Robinson and many other ‘experts’ will find themselves outwitted and wrong-footed many times as a result of real change rather than the having to endure a “modified status quo” that Robinson seems to pine for.”

        That’s exactly what she’s afraid of!

    • red-blooded 15.3
      21 October 2017 at 1:26 pm

      Well, of course this is the woman who was telling us just a week or so ago that Ardern and Labour must be “gutted” at the Specials result…

      Who’s checked out the latest rant from Richard Prebble? http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11935125
      He’s trying to tell us that Ardern is just a puppet to Peters, who has “stolen” the election – comparing it to a coup, and that the result is undemocratic (no surprises there). He also says “I blame Bill English for this debacle. He ran a great First Past the Post campaign – and a losing MMP campaign.” This comment is fair enough, maybe, but how does it compare with this one, from his last piece (on September 21st): “Bill has run a mistake-free campaign but he took too long to attack Labour’s tax policy”? Let’s forget that it can’t be mistake-free if there’s a “but” coming up and focus on the fact that before the final result was known our friend Richard thought Bill E had run a great campaign and now he thinks it was a debacle. Which was it, Richard? And why no mention of the campaign manager, Stephen Joyce? Thos two decided together to run a “take ’em all out” campaign, and were perfectly prepared to tell lies and countenance leaking of personal information as part of the strategy.

      Doesn’t look too smart now, does it? All those blue joggers running off to the opposition benches, still alone and monochromatic.

      • Anne 15.3.1
        21 October 2017 at 1:42 pm

        I’ve not an ounce of empathy for them because they conducted themselves so dishonestly and – dare I say it – corruptly over the last 9 years. Yet their supporters turned a blind eye to it all and continue to turn a blind eye. Did Labour and the Greens respond with such venom when they were ousted in 2008? No. They did not. They were just as disappointed of course – and particularly with the blatant lies and the innuendo during the campaign – but they were all gracious in defeat and continued to be gracious in defeat for the next two elections.

        • Olwyn 15.3.1.1
          21 October 2017 at 3:45 pm

          When Labour lost in 2008, a disabled man in Wellington was so frightened by the news that he rang the police. This was reported, as I remember it, with wry amusement. This time around, the howls are all about a perceived threat to the privilege and licence enjoyed by the well- heeled, that expanded exponentially under John Key.

          • Anne 15.3.1.1.1
            21 October 2017 at 5:16 pm

            I never heard about that incident but it is a profoundly story. He might have been disabled but he clearly sensed there would be a gradual removal of the support and assistance he – and others in his situation desperately needed and my goodness… how right he was.

            Some of the letters to the editor in today’s Herald are simply appalling in their venality. I will see if can find an online link…

            • Anne 15.3.1.1.1.1
              21 October 2017 at 5:35 pm

              No. They’re not currently publishing letters online. They used to, because I recall linking to one or two in the past.

              Edit: my first reply should read “profoundly sad story…”
              Having majors with my pc at moment.

            • Olwyn 15.3.1.1.1.2
              21 October 2017 at 9:39 pm

              I haven’t seen today’s Herald, but members of my family have told me some of the vile comments they have seen and heard. National, under Key, certainly unleashed a nasty streak in certain quarters, and it is still hanging around although he has moved on.

      • tracey 15.3.2
        21 October 2017 at 4:21 pm

        ACT people do have some knowledge of puppetry… but there seems to be so much writing from a perspective of;
        This is how I behave so others must be the same.

    • AB 15.4
      21 October 2017 at 2:40 pm

      “Business model”, “innovation lens”.
      Lol. If Robinson swims in the shallow pool of business language she will never understand the real world. It’s desperate and incoherent drivel.

      • rhinocrates 15.4.1
        21 October 2017 at 3:17 pm

        Worked for some years with CR. Epitomises the careerist academic. Vain, devoid of anything resembling humour or humility, and not at all an empathic, insightful or imaginative person. Made up for those deficiencies in ambition, realised that riding the coattails of the powerful and repeating their jargon back at them would serve that. Seeing her turn this bitter when she embarrasses herself is no surprise.

        … and unfortunately, far from the worst that Massey has. The place is a menagerie of malice and stupidity.

        • Once was Tim 15.4.1.1
          21 October 2017 at 4:17 pm

          Well said @Rhino.
          And, as I watched “the sage” Lisa Owen this morning interviewing both JA and JS, I was mindful of dearest Clair Robinson.
          I thought both would benefit from a listen to this – let alone a few others:
          http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018618291/audit-culture-the-creeping-problem-of-our-age

          Even RNZ’s regular gal with the balanced portfolio and work-life equilibrium (going forward) seems to have recognised things can’t continue as they are – I think she began to realise a year or 18 months ago.

          (btw – for those prepared to jump on the ‘dearest’, and ‘regular gal’ remarks above – it was said with the same intent as is common by Garners, Richardsons and many other gNats in the media and those in the political class sweetie. shorthand: /sarc

        • tracey 15.4.1.2
          21 October 2017 at 4:23 pm

          An increasing number of academics behave this way due to the great ideological culls ratchetted up under Joyce. Academic integrity sold to the highest bidders

        • Sacha 15.4.1.3
          21 October 2017 at 4:46 pm

          Interesting. How does she get on with Maharey?

    • JC 15.5
      21 October 2017 at 10:05 pm

      Fortunately only on the site temporarily!

      Disappeared within the hour, (An attempt at Balance perhaps) despite the offence!

  17. Ed 17
    21 October 2017 at 3:32 pm

    This is the important stuff.
    Any chance we cold have a thread based on this article by George Monbiot?

    Here are some excerpts…..

    ‘Which of these would you name as the world’s most pressing environmental issue? Climate breakdown, air pollution, water loss, plastic waste or urban expansion? My answer is none of the above. Almost incredibly, I believe that climate breakdown takes third place, behind two issues that receive only a fraction of the attention.

    This is not to downgrade the danger presented by global heating – on the contrary, it presents an existential threat. It is simply that I have come to realise that two other issues have such huge and immediate impacts that they push even this great predicament into third place.

    One is industrial fishing, which, all over the blue planet, is now causing systemic ecological collapse. The other is the erasure of non-human life from the land by farming.

    Some information from his article…

    ‘A study published this week in the journal Plos One reveals that flying insects surveyed on nature reserves in Germany have declined by 76% in 27 years.‘

    One study in Britain suggests that, if we stopped using animal products, everyone in Britain could be fed on just 3m of our 18.5m hectares of current farmland (or on 7m hectares if all our farming were organic).

    A recent study in Nature Plants reveals that most farms would increase production if they cut their use of pesticides

    According to the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation, at current rates of soil loss, driven largely by poor farming practice, we have just 60 years of harvests left.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/20/insectageddon-farming-catastrophe-climate-breakdown-insect-populations

  18. Ed 18
    21 October 2017 at 4:18 pm

    Dame Anne Salmond: A new start for NZ

    ‘Over the past 33 years, the neo-liberal idea of a ‘free market’ ruled by naked self-interest has led to radical disparities of wealth and privilege, and an erosion of care for others and our beautiful land.

    It has also undermined democratic institutions in New Zealand. Elections are seen as a Darwinian contest among political parties, in which the winners and their supporters take all, while the losers are shafted.

    The independence of the civil service has been corroded, with chief executives who kowtow to their ministers, rather than serving the public interest. Government bodies are stacked with political cronies, while lobby groups dominate much decision-making.

    In New Zealand, it is not just our waterways that have turned toxic as a result of greedy, self-interested politics. This is the real challenge for the new government – to clean up and restore life to our democracy, as well as to rivers and lakes across the land.‘

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/10/19/54722/dame-anne-salmond-a-new-start-for-nz

    • tracey 18.1
      21 October 2017 at 4:25 pm

      And the free market has not ruled in its entirety. When the free market dictates that skill shortages = higher wages those industries turned to the govt and immigration to circumvent free market and keep wages down.

      • Macro 18.1.1
        21 October 2017 at 5:20 pm

        Oh yes. Regulation is very useful, when applied in the “Right” way.

      • NewsFlash 18.1.2
        21 October 2017 at 7:09 pm

        That’s correct, as Ardern and Peters have stated, capitalism can be made to work for the people through “REGULATION”, something sadly missing in most countries today, preferring market driven outcomes which have been distorted by MONOPOLISATION.

  19. NewsFlash 19
    21 October 2017 at 7:33 pm

    There is considerable backlash on social media by those who now don’t like MMP and how it delivers democracy, still pushing moral right and how they had 44.5% of the vote, but it appears they’re not quite intelligent enough to work out that 55% is actually a majority and MMP stands for “Mixed Member Proportional” representation, still living in the FPP days, even after requiring the support of Dunne, ACT and the Maori Party for there previous Governments.

    One of the articles goes:
    92.8% didn’t vote for NZF
    93.7% didn’t vote for the Greens
    63.1% didn’t vote for Labour

    And when you add that up??

    And then there’s this one

    Breaking news

    All Blacks lose Rugby world Championship as
    Aus, SA and Argentina combine their points and become coalition winners!

    I have NO sympathy for any of them, just bad LOSERS

    • Anne 19.1
      21 October 2017 at 8:15 pm

      I’ve got some figures too:

      55.6% didn’t vote for the Nats
      99.5% didn’t vote for Act.
      99.9% didn’t vote for UF
      99% didn’t vote for MP

      And since it’s leader indicated he would go with the Nats;
      97.6% didn’t vote for Top.

      If they want to go down that road, its a much more damming outcome for the Right.

      • NewsFlash 19.1.1
        21 October 2017 at 10:04 pm

        Anne

        These people only like democracy when they win, but it’s not working properly when they lose.

        • Anne 19.1.1.1
          21 October 2017 at 10:59 pm

          🙂
          They had it so damm good for so long. All that power and prestige fed down the line to the henchmen and henchwomen from those at the top and suddenly… its gone. No wonder Mike Hoskings went berserk. They’ll be demanding a change of name for Labour Weekend next.

    • mac1 19.2
      21 October 2017 at 10:04 pm

      The thing is, to further complete the analogy, the All Blacks were playing in a different competition. They were playing in the Federation of Past Players, under the old rules, and the other three were competing for the Modern Mixed Players cup. Guess who won the MMP Cup?

    • millsy 19.3
      22 October 2017 at 12:11 am

      Who gives a shit anyway. If National was in the same position they would have done it. And they know it.

      Some times you need a coup. This was the coup we needed — a second October Revolution.

      When you play the Game of Thrones, you play to win. Jacinda did iust that. Power was sitting right in front of her, and all she had to do was take it. She took it alright, outflanking National in the process. Completely within the rules.

  20. North 20
    21 October 2017 at 9:07 pm

    The intent is to delegitimise the expression of a majority of voters and paint as palpable high morality the expression of a minority of voters. This is a seminal fight for democracy.

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