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Open mike 21/11/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 21st, 2013 - 236 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step right up to the mike …

236 comments on “Open mike 21/11/2013”

  1. amirite 1

    So..how will the Nats reconcile their own policies with what Colin (Cray) Craig stands for:
    1. wants to abolish the anti smacking law
    2. wants to abolish the right to abortion
    3. is against asset sales
    4. wants to put higher taxes on alcohol
    and some other big unknowns about CC’s policies and the people he may bring to Parliament with him?

    The Opposition should start stacking up their ammunition…

  2. Sanctuary 2

    I was talking to my mate, who grew up in the Herald island area and is a stalwart North Shore Tory hang-em’ high guy from way back, and he reckons that if Key tries an Epsom style deal to get Colin Craig into the new seat the locals won’t cooperate as their is no appetite for God-bother parties. If Labour has a half decent candidate they would have a real chance of winning the seat.

  3. David H 3

    Now thats interesting no reply button until I had logged in, and only on articles that were put up today. Now thats an excellent way to keep the Troll problem under control, well done Lynn.

  4. David H 4

    Colin Craig on TV3 breakfast just running thru all the AK seats I reckon all the punters must be going “Oh hell here we go again they are going to turn us into another Epsom”

  5. Sanctuary 5

    Look on the bright side,. Paula Bennett is dog tucker to whoever stands against her in the new Kelston seat. Which raises the question – who is the ideal candidate for that new seat? Carmel Sepuloni? Andrew Little?

    • David H 5.1

      Has to be Carmel she did such a good job last time only lost by 9 votes. Sorry but I don’t figure Little in there at all, or do Labour want to gift the seat to the Nats. Little has all the appeal of a toothache.

      Waitakere BENNETT, Paula Lee National Party 13465 9 44.74% yes

      • Ad 5.1.1

        Absolutely vital that Labour and Greens get this right. The North Harbour seat is potentially winnable if the Greens step aside and enable National and the Conservatives to split each other off. This kind of opportunity won’t arise again for quite some time.

        In return Labour could consider pulling out of the Waitakere Ranges area to enable the Greens to harvest higher party votes from the Blue-Greens up there in the forested hills. And their donations.

        Similarly for specific areas like Waiheke Island which although not an electorate seat has a high Greens activist base. Labour could effectively not campaign there and leave the Party votes to the greens entirely.

        In return the Greens could withdraw their candidate from Auckland Central to enable Labour an electorate win against National’s Member.

        And while we are at it, be bold and put Grant Robertson on the list, and enable the Greens to get an electorate seat in Wellington. Thhis could conceivably make the whole coalition safer.

        • Tat Loo (CV)

          Forward thinking strategy.

          Or will Labour stick with a 1980s FPP mindset: we must campaign to win in EVERY seat!

          The LEFT vote will be energised by a smart, tactical, campaign.

          • northshoreguynz

            But will it be in the same light as “cups of tea?” I suspect that’s the way the media will play it.

            • Pascal's bookie

              Of course it will, and rightly so.

              It’s not difficult. Just campaign. ‘Giving’ the Greens electorate seats they don’t need only justifies what National does.

              In close seats. Labour candidates should be explicit about the fact that while they obviously want list votes as well, they are also the only electorate candidate that can beat National.

              Appeal to voters, don’t do backroom deals and announce them to voters and expect them to fall into line. Left wing voters aren’t tories, they will not like you treating them like tories. Treat them like fucking citizens making choices.

              • Draco T Bastard

                All of this “tactical” voting that we’re seeing is the reason why we should have preferential voting in the electorates.

              • Colonial Viper

                In other words, you want a Labour campaign as per all previous – no consideration or quarter to be given to any potential allied parties.

                • McFlock

                  It’s votes, not bullets they’re looking for.

                  And the objective is an increase in votes across the left – labour swapping votes with the Greens or Mana in various electorates (and vice versa) does absolutely nothing towards changing the government.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    the MMP objective is not just to increase left votes, it is also to minimise wasted left votes.

                    That’s why the strategy needs to be refined. Just watch Key. He’s understands the subtleties of the MMP marketplace rules.

                    • McFlock

                      under mmp, there’s no such thing as a wasted vote.

                      edit: and the flipside for trading electorate votes of minimal value is to be seen to play voters for chumps, or divvying them up with an undeserved sense of entitlement.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I disagree but there you go.

                  • Rogue Trooper

                    and, being the astute political analyst that you have demonstrated, the proposition would be… (not avocado on toast, although, with a little cayenne and freshly-ground black pepper- Very Yummy indeed).

              • Rogue Trooper

                was thinking this very thing Pb

            • vto

              that is the way the people will see it and they will not like it, playing around with their vote like that, no matter how smart it is.

          • David H

            No sorry thats old thinking. We need to be tactical on this. As it didn’t work in 08, and it won’t work in 14.

        • phillip ure


          i have this recurring nightmare of the tories getting a third term.

          ..just because/lab/grns/mana etc can’t get their shit together..

          ..on how to operate for the good of all..

          ..under mmp..

          ..how the tories must laugh..eh..?

          ..as the progressive parties camapign still locked into first past the post/ego-battles mentality..

          ..then at the end..whoever is left standing glares suspiciously at each other..

          ..and meanwhile the right gift craig a seat..

          ..and win re-election..

          ..the progressives return to their seperate bunkers..

          ..and point fingers at each other..


          ..grow up..!


          ..stop being so fucken stoopid..!

          phillip ure..

        • David H

          And don’t forget an end run around Dunne as well, if the Lab Greens sort their shit out, Lab could take that as well.

    • Naturesong 5.2

      Given the closeness of the result last time, I’m pretty certain Paula Bennet was going to lose anyway.

    • Tracey 5.3

      she will be high on the list so not gone. Gotta be Carmel.

  6. vto 6

    Nicky Wagner has admitted that the National Party has failed the east of Christchurch, which suffered by far the most and whose communities have been completely sacked and devastated by the earthquakes. Completely.

    In The Press this morning she says that if the new boundaries of Christchurch Central, which she won last time by 47 votes, moves anywhere but west (towards the Ilam and Fendalton nether regions) then the seat will be unwinnable for National.

    That is what she said (no link available yet).

    Why is that Nicky? Why will it become unwinnable? You have just had one of NZ’s biggest ever disasters which devastated huge chunks of your electorate. That is surely an opportunity for the sitting MP to work to help the constituents through the disaster. Such help would of course be recognised at the ballot box with a return to the seat by the incumbent, namely you Nicky. But you yourself admit, unthinkingly, that that is not going to happen to you.

    So why is it not going to happen to you? Why will it be impossible to win Nicky? Why? Surely, if you have helped these people then there is a chance at least you could win again? Yes?

    But you aint going to are you. Because you aint done shit for the people of the east of Christchurch. They are about to tell you that aren’t they Nicky.

    The people of the east and south of Christchurch are about to tell you to fuck right off because you aint done shit.

    Fuck off.

  7. tc 7

    About time the opposition totalled up NACT’s lolly scramble promises against the actual proceeds now that AirNZ’s been sold down.

    Swingers need to be woken up to the BS raining down when ever Key/Joyce/Blinglish etc open their mouths.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.1


      People need to be shown that National think so little of everyone else that they make multiple promises with the same money.

  8. James Thrace 8

    Andrew Little has a private members bill proposing to limit personal grievance procedures to those earning $150k and under.

    The man is a pillock.

    [lprent: Incorrect – Paul Goldsmith private members bill – see here.

    I’m unsure how you put Andrew Little into the frame.

    But perhaps you are as much of a pillock as Goldsmith is? ]

    • Tat Loo (CV) 8.1

      Doesn’t sound right…are you sure of your facts? Well paid serfs can get shafted by the machine they help run as well as poorly paid ones.

      • miravox 8.1.1

        I thought sounded a bit wrong as well. Turns out it’s a Paul Goldsmith private members bill


        Contracting out of personal grievances sensible

        Excluding higher paid employees from personal grievances makes sense, says BusinessNZ.

        A private member’s bill proposes that employees on salary packages over $150,000 should be able to contract out of the personal grievance provisions of the Employment Relations Act.

        The bill, promoted by National’s Paul Goldsmith, would mean a higher paid worker would have to use the civil court to challenge a wrongful dismissal.

        Going after high paid employees now. Big business must realise there isn’t a lot more they can take off the low paid.

        • Colonial Viper

          The white collar professionals who thought that National was on “their side” have another think coming. National is the party of corporates, and the corporates don’t want any trouble from the $200K pa serf overseers that they use.

        • Draco T Bastard

          And here’s me thinking that National was the One Law for All party.

    • Tracey 8.2

      Turns out Goldsmith is the pillock, and I couldn’t agree with you more.

  9. greywarbler 9

    Titford to go away for a decent stretch for a nasty lot of violence against his wife and family.
    I remember an article in North and South or Metro with him photographed against a beautiful background of Northland coastline. Poor little asperashunal businessman, his future projected profit of coastal development and sale of the rich, floating in the fluid around his eyeballs. He was afraid to cry in case his dreams washed away. But he hollered and moaned and complained to good effect and the government paid him out though apparently he didn’t get much out of it. Similar to the Crafar ambition of becoming very rich through land speculation.

    And interesting to compare Titford and his anti-Maori rhetoric which the government had to quieten with money, and the poor farmers that the government virtually hounded off their farm. They were charged with negligence in the maintenance of a bridge on their property which collapsed resulting in the death of a beekeeper crossing it. The bridge was built by the Army but they did not warn of the likely problem that is well known with fungus-treated timber – when there is an entry through the outer seal, either from bolts, or a cut to reduce length, fungus can enter and rot it unless there is regular sealing with suitable paint. They were tried for manslaughter I think. Defended by a barrister who fought for years trying to prevent the case being brushed under the political carpet. Over that they had an enormous loss, Titford got his payout, they had to get off their farm. No consideration for them.

    In the news about an art auction -Goldie painting a rare portrait, sold to a private buyer for $700,000 odd. Before photography got established, this was the equivalent of a family memorial. I hope that private buyer will now gift it to the relevant tribe if they have a safe place to house it, or allow it to be displayed there, and pay for insurance on it.

    • Ad 9.1

      If there is a public interest in the Goldie portrait then a public institution should buy it for the public good. eg The Auckland War memorial Museum has a fine collection of Lindauers. Te Papa has a good few Lindauers and Goldies. All reverentially displayed.

    • Tracey 9.2

      Did Slater breach Titford’s suppression order on his site or not?

      • Hayden 9.2.1

        Apparently his wife waived her own suppression, which in turn allowed his to be lifted.


        • Tracey

          I know, but Mr Slater claims to be even-handed in his treachery but let this guy’s name stay safe from his crusade against name suppression…

          • Hayden

            Right, sorry. That did occur to me a bit later on… I didn’t hear about the case until his name was out there, I guess on its own it didn’t really rate as nationally news-worthy,

            • Tracey

              Yup, Slater might just have been saving victims of further abuse or giving victims a chance to come forward… nothing to see here aye Mr Slater.

          • Puckish Rogue

            Hes already paid thousands in outing suppression orders, didn’t see anyone from the left willing to put their hands in their pockets

            • Tracey

              not the point, he says he is even handed in his crusades. According to his own “logic” this guy should have been outted to save the folks of the north from his abuse. Slater hasnt put thousands of his own money into anything… he has backers. Seems this guy didnt warrant outing. Just sexually assaulting women and children after all.

            • fender

              I’d put money towards relocating him to Anchorage so he could be with his own kind.

            • Hayden

              Holy shit, now it’s philanthropy rather than his business. I’m sure the victims appreciate his generosity in spreading their personal information about the place for profit and prurience.

              Hes already paid thousands and received criminal convictions in outing suppression orders


    • gobsmacked 9.3

      Check out the comments on this article in E-local (you might have seen it in your mailbox, it masquerades as a community newspaper, but pushes right-wing propaganda):


      The article’s not worth reading, but the comments are!

      • phillip ure 9.3.1

        chrs for the link to that rag..

        ..that pro-titford/anti-maori/racist crap was published in june this year..(!)

        ..it was written by a ross baker ..

        ..(and this is an example of the high-standards @e-local..)

        “..- Sub editied Lisa Williams..” (incompetent at job..as well as being racist scum..)

        ..and yes..will they be issuing an apology/retraction..?

        ..and more interestingly..

        ..will those maori featured/named/slandered so in this article..

        ..will they sue the arses off the writers/publishers of this rag..?

        ..and thus close it down..?

        ..i fucken hope so/they do..

        phillip ure..

        • Arfamo

          Why all the fucken swearing today, phillip?

          • phillip ure

            @ swearing..linguistic-laziness probably..

            ..(i’ll try harder..)

            ..tho’ i do defend the use of a resolute ‘fuck!’ here and there..

            ..as an emphasis-tool..

            ..(and the racist race-baiting from that rightwing-rag..

            ..deserves a string of expletives..)

            ..phillip ure

      • marty mars 9.3.2

        In 2009 Scott at Reading the Maps wrote about the Franklin E-Local. Great article and worth a read. They are a very mixed up crew that bunch.


      • Rogue Trooper 9.3.3

        well, that was a waste of bytes.

      • Murray Olsen 9.3.4

        I see that pseudo-historian of Celtic New Zealand, Martin Doutré, is vigorously defending Titford as a political prisoner. I remember when the first book about that rubbish came out. It took me about 2 seconds to realise it was racist crap designed to delegitimise the Treaty. I wonder how long before WhaleSpew leaps on the same filthy bandwagon.

        • Rogue Trooper

          regrettably, Miss Otis had to decline the invitation to the ‘Young Nats Christmas Function’ (going as Hugh Hefner (lol) to another ‘do’ this year) just gotta rustle up a burghandi smoking jacket and a satin dressing gown before next Friday. 😉

    • Morrissey 9.4

      Titford to go away for a decent stretch for a nasty lot of violence against his wife and family.

      And don’t forget the nasty lot of violence against the local Tangata Whenua. You can be sure the media are studiously ignoring that, and concentrating on the family violence; we need to remind people at every chance that Titford’s rage was aimed at Maori as much as his own family.

  10. greywarbler 10

    An Auckland school, and communities, being sacrificed, sliced and diced, to make way for new motorway, east-west motoway decided on by Auckland Transport. It is a little example of the state that New Zealand is in. Education isn’t getting railroaded, but roaded, out from our prime consideration. It is expendable as roads are the priority. When I was in Naples around the 1970’s I was told that the Mafia made a lot of money building roads. They found them a good little earner, often not necessary going by the volume of users.

    In NZ we have the same focussed thinking. It is now 2013 with peak oil and bad climate change developments leading to destruction of infrastructure and our past style of living. More education in the broad understanding, problem-solving, analysing skills are what is needed.

    The young have to learn because it is their future that is being warped and wiped. Just as more animals and simple living entities are being lost, those are canaries warning about their possible future. It is sad for them to be raised to adulthood and reach understanding that irreversible conditions have degraded their world and future unfolding before them.

    The old have got to a state where most refuse to face difficulties being caused by their present lifestyles that will compound in the future. In general the population is more likely to give active consideration to matters of sex, and personal behaviour especially it is obviously dysfunctional, than the deep structural problems that are very real but not immediately impacting them and contentious. And when the impacts become felt directly, there is surprise, shock and anguish – but still without the energy to address the problem except in band-aid and knee-jerk reaction.

    • Rogue Trooper 10.1

      and ‘waste management’ gw. We discussed the privileged response to some recent, local, young-teen “sudden deaths” today; one such response advising (deputy mayor), “having a positive future outlook”! (I am privy to an overview of the case-notes of these two tragedies, and really, they were well-fu#ked already, at such a young age; There was no ‘positive future outlook’! for them, or many others.

  11. vto 11

    Good to see David Parker and Poto Williams out pounding the streets in east Chch yesterday.

    It’s like seeing coppers on the streets – very very good and provides an impression and reality of standing with the people.

  12. Colonial Viper 12

    Indonesian/Australian bilateral relationship blowing up – Mark Textor not helping

    The Indonesians are preparing to suspend all co-operation with Australia on military and immigration matters. Meanwhile, Mr Textor is looking to throw in a few bombs of his own.


    • Chris 12.1

      In another, the opinionated Liberal insider asked: ”What sort of head of state communicates with a head of a neighbouring government by twitter FFS? SBY”.

      Looks as though he forgot to counsel Mr Key re twitter…

  13. vto 13

    Dear old Brian Edwards on te panel yesterday took an opportunity to jump on his bandwagon about comments from anonymous bloggers etc that are nasty and how he could not get away with it because he is known…. well go for it Brian – who do you want to be nasty to?

    He really needs to get over this anonymous thing the silly fool…

    He is known with his comments, and that carries some extra cred – take it and be happy.

    People who are anonymous have less cred when they comment – that is fine. Their anonymity diminishes the value of their comments, at times, especially when flecked with personal nasties..

    however, what the anons can do is, by stripping out all of the known and personal of the commentator, place bare facts on the table for objective evaluation, devoid of any issues and credibility around the person who made the comment. And that has additional value above Brian’s known position.

    Is that what he cannot handle perhaps?

    I wonder if he pokes around here under some nom de plums.

    • lprent 13.1

      I wonder if he pokes around here under some nom de plums.


      a. I’d have probably have noticed. I’m hyper-aware of any IP that I have worked with, and I’ve helped him on his site from his home system a number of times.

      b. Doesn’t fit his style anyway.

      It is more of thing from people who haven’t been around online forums for any length of time. They tend to not understand exactly either how the law views everything (basically there is no particular difference between a name and a pseudonym) or how seriously people invest in their online personas.

      Essentially the only benefits of using a real name are

      1. It makes it easier to claim special knowledge by virtue of who you are.
      2. It makes it easier to target people for retribution in the real world

      The first is generally irrelevant because you have to demonstrate your effective breadth of knowledge anyway (there are a lot of smart people online). The second happens all of the time for many people outside of the media industry where some degree of legal protection exists which is why the vast majority of people commenting on political forums operate with psuedonyms.

      Effectively BE is saying that he’d prefer that only media commentators have a public voice on politics or the media. Since that is never going to happen because of the legal position referred to above, it just becomes a rather useless club.

      • rhinocrates 13.1.1

        Yeah, Brian Edwards and Pete George like to rattle on about how personally brave they are with their pensions and lifestyle blocks, which only shows how cowardly and out of touch they really are. Those of us in the real world have bosses who trawl our comments – I’ve already had one who tried to out me.

        They aren’t heroes by any definition, they only perpetuate the system that supports their privileges. There’s a golden quote by Danyl McLaughlan on Giovani Tiso’s blog (actually, it was in the replies to some Trotter bullshit about what martyrs “Willie” and “JT” are, but I’m not going to link to that):


        ‘we’re doomed to be hectored and talked down to by droves of reactionary bewildered old men’

        That’s what Edwards has become.

        I have to add, I did argue the point about employer surveillance with Edwards and he conceded, but he’s spouting the original bullshit again, which proves that he’s disingenuous at best or a lying bastard in other words.

        • Arfamo

          The main thing I like about Brian Edwards is that he used to be worth listening to. But that was a long time ago.

    • rhinocrates 13.2

      There is a difference between anonymous and pseudonymous. After all, is Borat really anonymous? How about Woody Allen or Mel Brooks or David Bowie or Michael Caine? (Allen Koenigsberg, Melvin Kaminsky, Maurice Micklewhite and David Jones).

      Or George Eliot (Mary Ann Evans), for an historical precedent.

      Or “lprent” for that matter?

      People who use pseudonyms online build up avatar personas in which they have invested a lot of worth, and they keep using them and are willing to be held to their stated opinions at the risk of having to abandon their identities.

      Edwards is disingenuously trying to blur the line between pseudonym and anonymity to pump up his own image as some sort of hero. He’s an old man, out of touch in the media in which he tries to make his money. If he doesn’t understand new media, then he’s not competent to serve his clients. I wouldn’t want to hire him if I needed someone to manage my image any more than I would want to use carrier pigeons to deliver mail.

      And then we can compare people who use names that by sheer coincidence are the same as those on their birth certificates. “Matthew Hooton” for example is nothing but a brand – everything about him is as fake as Patrick Bateman.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.3

      A comment should rest upon what it says and not who said it.

      • rhinocrates 13.3.1

        “Brian Edwards” is a brand too. He’s trying to use it to lend authority to what he says, however nonsensical.

        By the way, I have a PhD (Eng Lit, utterly useless), so you can call me Doctor… Who?


    • karol 14.1

      Yeah. Saw that. Laughed.

    • Tracey 14.2

      BIG ups

    • greywarbler 14.3

      A very workmanlike job. Nicely printed sign in clear font, appropriately sized and evenly cut, fit for its purpose. Quality zinc coated screws of modern type. 100% for meeting all requirements of test. Well done. signed Gerry Brownlee Physical Materials Trade Teacher (Woodwork).

      • Colonial Viper 14.3.1

        Nice to see someone still appreciates a fine quality of work. Who does these days? (The art of maintaining motorcycles).

        • karol

          Ah the zen of some friends back in the day!

          • Rogue Trooper

            a little over-rated, like The Road Less Travelled ; to be frank, by the time I finished the work of of maintaining the vehicles of consumption, trucks, forklifts, buses, dozers, loaders, I was interested in just riding and drinking piss!, and occasionally that which followed! 😎

            • karol

              I never actually read it. But I and a couple of my friends did our own (usually small) motorcycle maintenance. One or two of them liked the book. I just did the practicum.

              • Rogue Trooper

                however, I have built, or rebuilt, a few bikes, one completely.

                • karol

                  Impressive. I have stripped down and rebuilt a bike engine or 2, but not built a whole bike. That was in the pre-digital era. I imagine they are a bit different now.

    • rhinocrates 14.4

      Love it!

  14. bad12 15

    Talking of ‘personal nasties’ it is nearly beyond me to refrain after having watched the abysmal Paula Bennett on TV3’s 3rd degree last night decrying the rack-renting landlord who owns a ‘holiday park’ in Her electorate and then having the gall to call a public meeting about it,

    Rack-renting landlords charging over the top for what are basically ‘slum-dwellings’ need two things to survive and thrive, a severe lack of affordable rental accommodation and the tenants effected by this and the Government that Paula Bennett is a minister of has for the past five years done everything in it’s power to provide the rack-renting landlords of Auckland with plenty of them,

    Go round the ‘Holiday parks’ and boarding houses of Auckland and see just how many are trapped in slum conditions paying dearly to live in one room or a mouldering caravan and then count the number of HousingNZ properties this National Government has either knocked over and not replaced or simply flicked off because the property was valuable and the numbers look remarkably the same,

    A big Cheer sis goes out to that young woman who stood up to Bennett at that public meeting first asking Her the rhetorical question of exactly where are the HousingNZ properties for the 300 tenants crammed into the slum-park and as there are none where does Bennett get off attempting to ferment trouble for them when that ‘slum’ and it’s rack-renting is all that stands between the tenants and life on the street,

    A thought occurred to me this morning that perhaps ‘out on the street’ is where Bennett and National want to see these people….

    • karol 15.1

      Ah, she’s talking about the Ranui Caravan Park.

      I included stuff about it in this post.

      Of course, such articles and other communications about the Ranui encampment expose the brutality of her social security reforms, so she is going on counter-attack. Of course, if such rack-renters are put out of business, many would just end up totally homeless.

      Shameless, heartless, brutal Bennett. No wonder she prefers to move to Upper Harbour where there are little such parks to annoy her – will leave Ranui to Twyford, and other parks to other MPs.

      • bad12 15.1.1

        They have no shame these Tory SCUM, in the week National passed under urgency Legislation that will see HousingNZ tenants re-applying en masse to be able to retain their homes and trumpeting the ‘fact’ that they plan to kick out 3000 tenants Bennett is doing a perfect act of ‘violin playing’,

        Having cemented into place ‘rotational employment’ this National government will start playing musical chairs with the State’s housing stocks where we will have rotational housing,

        As has been shown in Her Social Development portfolio there are plenty of mistakes made and in the rush to give the 3000 State tenants the kick there will be plenty more and guess where the last port of call will be for those mistakenly given the kick from their homes by the overly zealous minions of this particular Minister,

        Not the rack-renting slum-lord of the slum-park that Bennett hypocritically decries by any chance…

      • greywarbler 15.1.2

        The mealy mouthed Poorer Benefit – Social Development Minister makes out it is well in hand and anyway housing for others is everyone’s business, so get to tit and help her be the good husband to the homeless that she wants to be!

        Paula Bennett says assistance is available.
        “Those who are having housing and other social issues will be helped where possible,” she says.
        “Rising rents in Auckland will no doubt present challenges but it is up to us as a community to come up with innovative solutions to resolve housing problems.”

        The Caravan Park term got me to look for this item on closing a caravan park and dispersing needy people who needed drug and health treatment, some suitable work and income, and support and supervision. Instead they got a hell of a fright with heavy police presence and a clearing out of people who obviously had no or few options for homes and security.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm? c_id=1&objectid=10010412
        Drug raid closes caravan park 10/2/2005
        Acting Detective Senior Sergeant Neil Grimstone said Green Acres (Mangere) was a well-known drug supermarket and police had attended nearly everything from domestic disputes to sexual violations there in the past few years….
        Just after 6.30am they
        left for 142 Favona Rd in 45 police cars.
        Intersections were closed to allow the huge convoy to arrive together. The police Eagle helicopter followed from above. By 7am, the caravan park – the subject of endless complaints from local residents – was raided…

        Occupants – Yesterday there were about 60, some of whom were children. Manukau City Council environmental health and enforcement manager Kevin Jackson said the park had been operating since 1986 but did not have a camping ground licence. Nor did it have code of compliances or resource consent.

        Mangere councillor James Papali’i said although there was an element of criminal activity there were also a lot of good people living at the park.
        He said many tenants faced real hardships and his main concern was for their future if the park was permanently closed down.

        Police found what could be expected –
        * Hundreds of tinnies and “dealing amounts” of methamphetamine.
        * Two shotguns, one sawn-off rifle and one handgun.
        * 14 unregistered and two registered dogs, which were impounded.
        * 12 arrests, possibly more to follow.

        A lot of money was spent on this raid, and order was restored for the people around. The question is why couldn’t some of that money go into working with the good, stable people within that group, and helping to get people off drugs, etc, keeping the younger ones stable, and enabling them to stay in work. If selling drugs was not against the law, and the government didn’t choose to irrationally hate one set of drugs and embrace others, then protection from shotguns wouldn’t be thought necessary. Unregistered dogs are not usually a criminal offence and without drug illegality they would not be so important for protection.

        The way we mishandle the drug situation must be the cause of much of the poverty and criminality in low socio-economic areas in NZ.
        This item on the Portman murder case reads like an episode from the USA tv servies on drug making and dealing Breaking Bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_Bad

        • karol

          Poverty creates a context where crime and dug peddling are very likely to occur.

        • bad12

          The point is that the condition of that particular ‘slum’ had little to do with the criminal behavior of some of it’s occupants, having all been booted out of this particular ‘slum’ do the authorities or anyone else believe that such criminal behavior was curtailed for more than the time it took for the criminal element that that particular ‘slum’ housed to find new housing,

          Only the brainless would draw such a conclusion,

          This brings to mind the Housing Minister Nick Smith’s recent gloating song and dance over putting the bulldozers through a whole street of units in the Lower Hutt suburb of Pomare and then flicking off the land for private housing,

          The street He said harbored a number of criminals, what He of course didn’t say,(nor care about obviously), was that the criminals who were housed there, if not in jail, are now housed somewhere else, i do not believe even Nick Smith is stupid enough to believe that kicking these people out of their houses and bulldozing the houses to the ground will for more than a moment have altered any criminal activity,( the point of Smith’s stupidity is of course debatable),

          The effort put into kicking the ‘offensive’ tenants out of this particular street is said to have in the end cost the State at least a million dollars, the demolition of the houses and selling off of the land from where i sit looks simply like a Fascist retaliation against all State tenants by the Minister hell bent on extracting the cost of these evictions from within the portfolio He is tasked with managing…

          • vto

            What would be done though? For those well past redemption and just causing mayhem and pain ….

            The constant harassment method works for rats, maybe it would work here too.


            • bad12

              Vto, what the fuck would you know about who is and who isn’t redeemable, well past redemption is simply right wing bullshit,

              In the case of HousingNZ tenants there should be a ‘spelling out’ of the tenants resposibility surrounding their neighbour’s right to ‘quiet enjoyment’ of their tenancies without harrasment or standover tactics with the full knowledge of the consequences,(something HousingNZ still do not bother to do),

              What or who is irredeemable??? i left Paremoremo Maximum security prison many years ago with a pre-release report which in part read, ”as the divisional Officer in charge of this individual and were it not for the fact that He is serving a finite sentence i would recommend that He never be released, He is one of the most dangerous individuals i have had custody of in 20 years of service”,

              Theoretically irredeemable according to ‘an expert’, yet i have never served another term of imprisonment and have lived in this little street for 5 years without a single dispute with any neighbour and i piss on your ‘irredeemable’…

              • vto

                well that is a doozy and very honest of you. congrats. people like you are an asset to the community (i think? tell me). though quite how you would assume was talking of you I’m not sure.

                and what would i know? that is immaterial and it would be a mistake to assume.

                but rather than revert to the original point, maybe it could be moved on in order to grease-gun the nuts…. how does this happen to people? are they actually in that irredeemable position or is that the officer alone? what factors bring about the ‘redemption’ (terrible word)? some distinguishment may be of assistance.

                but more importantly, what of those who must live with a ‘redemption’? Next door? While bringing in the milk….

                • “in order to grease-gun the nuts”

                  What does that mean?

                  “redemption – an act of redeeming or atoning for a fault or mistake, or the state of being redeemed.”

                  either way redemption seems to me to allow people to move forward and I think that is the way to do it. After all, stones and glass houses and the people who throw and all that.

                • bad12

                  Vto, yes you made the mistake in the earlier comment of assuming which is the only reason i ‘outed’ myself as one previously marked as irredeemable so as to disabuse you of such a notion,

                  There are very few people who with the right incentives and management i would consider to be irredeemable, and a far as the neighbours go i am sure when they realized who it was living next door they might have had the odd heart stopping moment but as i say i have been here for 5 years,

                  i will simply finish by saying that the less chances of redemption that there are then the less of it there will be…

                • Rogue Trooper

                  a little non-fiction story: My neighbour is the Sergeant-Of-Arms, notorious throughout NZ. He has been (not a little) aggressive and intimidating to a particular dog for about a month, more than a little concerning considering the implications of where I have been ‘located’. Last night, after I had retired to bed with a book, there was a knock at the door…I allowed him in, and was a little surprised that he went on to apologise for (three times), and explain his behaviour: A Modern Miracle. Really, I do not understand where some folk on TS get-off, yet I usually just put it down to ignorance. Very sad.

                • ghostrider888

                  Here is The Proposition
                  Death, or Dishonour.

              • Tim

                Indeed – there have been a number of supposedly “irredeemable” people who’ve proven their accusers wrong.
                It’s a shame there’s such a change in attitude over the years.
                I wonder @bad12 whether you ever had the pleasure of meeting a lady called Ana Tia.
                Her lessons seem to have been lost by those running our institutions these days – and of course the politicians driving it all

    • Murray Olsen 15.2

      It’s not just National. I noticed boarding houses and caravan parks filling up shortly after the first ACT government sat their traitorous bums on the green leather. I think the situation has only worsened since.

  15. greywarbler 16

    Is there anyone in Labour or the Greens especially interested in keeping an overview of IT in NZ especially in Government and other connected entities. It seems to me that supplying substandard programs and probably soon, hardware, has become on the great scams of the 21st century. We can see roads and get an idea of what they are doing and costing by applying to the OIA if necessary. Computers and electronics and all their complexity, languages, redundancies, paradigms, algorhithms blah blah , cables, mirroring, peer something, off the shelf programs cf to bespoke ones. Sheesh. We need to have a Ringmaster (or Mistress and no S&M intended) for this Circus.

    Who would be appropriate and knowledgable for this role either in left wing Government or well connected to give balanced unbiased advice, or if biased a revealed one. There are sure to be connections within the sector so I’m thinking pragmatically here.

    • Draco T Bastard 16.1

      The government should have its own IT department. It’s large enough to require work done all the time and it also requires compatibility between departments. This being true it’s actually massively inefficient (read: Costs a hell of a lot more) to bring in private contractors who would be unlikely to work to a set of standards and won’t have the IT dependent inter-departmental knowledge needed to make compatibility between departments both secure and cost effective.

      • greywarbler 16.1.1

        Sounds like what I’ve heard. Not that I know all that much. But who in Labour and Greens would know enough to understand what’s going on and stop the waste of money and time now happening?

        There are people who can talk the talk very impressively at present, but should be walking down a plank and being pushed off. But they aren’t and don’t. They leave at a certain crucial point in time, which is before they lose the chance of getting some great reimbursement.

        What I read in the news and hear is disgraceful and there needs to be someone with an overview. I have a copy of an email which talks about the happenings in his area of expertise and it seems to make valid points that would relate to numbers of programs and sites.

        I wonder who is going to take responsibility for technology in Labour and Greens. Because this is a black hole which we can’t keep dropping money into and getting trouble out of. It should not be a lucky dip that we reach into hopefully, luck is what we need though at present.

        • karol

          greywarbler, Cunliffe is making IT his area. He has some background in the area of politics of ICT.

        • ropata

          greywarbler and DTB :

          SSC has generic oversight. Each ministry *does* have its own IT department… very large in the case of MSD.

          Backoffice work isn’t glamorous but seeing IT purely as a cost to be minimised is a typical management error which often leads to disaster, when critical systems become neglected.

          Complex real world problems are only solved with sophisticated systems, and no technology lasts forever.

          • Draco T Bastard

            True but what they don’t have what I think the government needs is their own people developing their own software. At the moment they tend to go to private providers and we end up, seemingly more often than not, with a complete balls-up that costs far more than it should have. An internal government department tasked with providing all of the software (including the OS) that the government uses would, IMO, go a long way to eliminating those fuck-ups.

          • greywarbler

            I see your points. But thinking about money spent. The effectiveness and efficiency thing once new systems are up and running I would think is far from what is expected. That costs money trying to fix.

            Then there is compatability of systems which could help to keep costs down but there are limits on the ability to bring complex systems together.

            And as you say not having sufficient staff to maintain systems, and control new add-ons and rotate the hardware, ageing out and updated in and incorporate the new fully into the system with firewall etc and check on the back-up batteries and the generators and… There is not enough money allocated to properly maintain systems, and more needs to be spent in the right place to get the best bang for each $. That’s an interested newbie outsider’s view.

  16. karol 17

    Woman’s mastectomy photo’s taken off FaceBook overnight. RoastBusters rape boasts were on FB for 2 years.

    • greywarbler 17.1

      Typical, useful information gets mixed up with gynaecological warped curiosity.

      Decades ago when swearing in public and bad language, abuse etc was criminally punishable it was not allowed to be repeated in public, and the written words could not be legally carried within the postal system. A difficulty in gaining the facts and information for bringing a prosecution was caused.

    • Tracey 17.2

      *shakes head*

    • Colonial Viper 17.3

      That’s typical Facebook behaviour. Trying to get a page on breast feeding on Facebook showing actual breast feeding was almost impossible for years.

    • rhinocrates 17.4

      Worse – rape is not a sex crime but an act meant to humiliate and destroy a person, so the Roast Busters page was an extension of their rapes… and the police, for “operational” reasons knowingly allowed their crimes to continue. The police didn’t just turn a blind eye to rape, they facilitated it… because the son of one of their own was doing it.

      Now what’s the difference between saying that your hands were tied and hypocritically wringing them? There’s a question for Marshall.

      • Puckish Rogue 17.4.1

        Why don’t you ask him yourself?

        • rhinocrates

          Ooh, let me guess, in order to score a trivial point, are you pretending to some sort of sophistication and even – dare I say it, wit? You subscribe to the myth that there is some equivalence of power. If Marshall had shown up on my doorstep wearing his shiny hat with a box of chocolates and a bunch of roses, the real message that he would be delivering would be “We know where you live, matey”.

          Jesus PR, you really are dumb, and trying to be “witty” you only make that more obvious.

          As an aside, why is it that the most reactionary arselickers try to name themselves as “rebels” or “jesters”?

  17. greywarbler 18

    From China Weekly
    Palestinians’ first ever UN vote symbolic yet historic
    English.news.cn 2013-11-21 03:53:53
    RAMALLAH, Nov. 20 (Xinhua) — The Palestinians’ first ever vote at the UN General Assembly was symbolic but historic on their way toward the world’s full recognition of a Palestinian state, officials and analysts said here on Wednesday.

    Almost a year after the UN General Assembly upgraded the Palestinian status to that of a non-member observer state, the chief Palestinian UN observer Riyad Mansour cast a ballot on Monday in an election of a judge for the International Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia.
    The casting of the Palestinian ballot was accompanied with a loud applause in the 193-nation assembly, a matter that angered the Israeli envoy.

  18. bad12 19

    So Chris Tremain the obscure minister of Internal Affairs is worried that 414 people voted for the criminal Allen Titford when His standing as a candidate was illegal,

    i would worry more that there are 414 people in Northland with the sanity,(lack of), to express a desire to have someone of Titfords ilk as their Mayor,

    i would further worry about ‘birds of a feather’ and wonder what might be occurring within the families of the 414 who would choose a man,(a thing), of Titford’s ilk as their Mayor,

    That small demographic of electoral support i would suggest is worthy of a serious dose of community mental health or perhaps more to the point worthy of bearing the brunt of the prying eyes of a criminal investigation…

    • Tracey 19.1

      is it possible most of them didnt know what he had done?

      • bad12 19.1.1

        Wouldn’t just the ‘politics of ‘it’ make you want to run a mile let alone knowing what the total amount of insanity He obviously has ensconced in His cranial cavity….

  19. Draco T Bastard 20

    Five years of QE and the distributional effects

    As we approach the fifth anniversary of the start of the first quantitative easing program, some are asking the thorny question about the so-called “distributional effects” of these unprecedented programs. Who really benefited since the first QE was launched? There is a great deal of debate on the topic, but here are a couple of facts. Financial asset valuations, particularly in the corporate sector have seen sharp increases. For example the S&P500 index total return (including dividends) has delivered 144% over the 5-year period. Those who had the resources to stay with stock investments were rewarded handsomely.

    Instead of calling it Quantitative Easing it really should have been called Massive Stock Bubble and Gift to the already Wealthy

  20. North 21

    Lo, the magnificent thinking of one great philosopher/arsehole Brian Emerson on Stuff re home ownership ???

    Profound !!!


    • Draco T Bastard 21.1

      Wow, now that’s a sociopathic rant if ever I heard one.

      • Hayden 21.1.1

        Who wakes up in the morning and thinks to themselves, “I know, I’ll out myself as a complete prick in front of the whole nation!”?

        Actually, I know a couple of people who might do this, mainly due to a complete lack of self-awareness.

      • Puckish Rogue 21.1.2

        He could have written it better

    • rhinocrates 21.2

      Oops, being a bit too honest there about your utter arseholeness, Brian. You’re supposed to be slicker than that. The same goes to everyone who’s drawing paycheques from The Herald.

      Gosh, I wonder why newspapers are dying? Could it be because they’re becoming increasingly out of touch and irrelevant? Nah…

      • greywarbler 21.2.1

        DTB 21.1 Whose rant do you mean? Brian Emerson’s I take it.
        I had a look at this and came upon the Stuff Nation Assignment set-up. First time I’ve seen it.
        They set some topics and if you are a dick capable of shooting your mouth off without rude words you can write a few paras and put them forward for consideration.

        I had a look for Brian Emerson and the one that I came up with is someone in Gisborne who has a motor trade licence to repossess vehicles. Someone who would have strong understanding of the stresses of being short of money and not able to manage in today’s flash NZ economy! And getting flasher. Probably more work for B.E.

    • vto 21.3

      Brian Emerson is completely without understanding.

      He says this … “The problem with New Zealand’s housing crisis is that everyone wants their own house but many did nothing in their lives to enable this to happen. ”

      It doesn’t even come onto his radar that there are well established practices and beliefs in pretty much all societies throughout history that people don’t have to do anything but be born to expect a home. It is a baseline for human societal existence.

      His rant there is incredibly narrow. Like looking out through a slit in the wall.

    • Rogue Trooper 21.4

      regarding ‘support’ Brian, life support will inconvenience your perspective, yet we’ll be there, smiling down on your comatose frame!

    • Murray Olsen 21.5

      The odds are that he inherited his house. It’s quite common with loud mouth fools who preach the virtues of hard work and self reliance.

  21. Draco T Bastard 22

    A while ago someone asked why we needed FttH. Well NASA, indirectly, answers:

    Why Optical Communication?
    The scientific instruments in near-Earth and deep-space missions increasingly require higher communication rates to transmit their gathered data back to Earth or to support high-data-rate applications (e.g., high-definition video streams). Optical communications (also referred to as ‘lasercomm’) is an emerging technology wherein data is modulated onto laser beams, which offers the promise of much higher data rates than what is achievable with radio-frequency (RF) transmissions.

  22. gobsmacked 23

    The crazy gets more crazy …

    In response to criticism from readers, the editor of “E-local” (see above) replies –

    “elocal told Titfords story, one of a modern day land grab. As for your comment re conspiracy stories, I as editor don’t need to defend what we have presented. For one the authors put their names to their pieces not like you who hides like a coward under the title of anomymous. I doubt if you have half the accademic record or research under your belt to have a comment or article even to be considered to be published.”

    (emphasis added)

    So, just to be clear – the editor’s moral code says …

    – commenting anonymously is bad

    – decades of assault, rape, arson – and incidentally, cowardice – is not so bad

    – and the editor isn’t responsible for his own work!

    Feel free to e-mail them – I have (links in my comments above). This matters, because ‘E-local’ is not just a bigot blog, it’s a free magazine distributed throughout Auckland. You can find it in cafes, etc. It’s poison, spreading far and wide.

    • karol 23.1

      Thanks gobsmacked – submitted a pseudonymous comment – particularly querying the use of the pseudonym “editor” to criticise “anonymous comments.

      The editor might be the female sub-editor mentioned at the top of the article, but who knows. And her name and the name of the author of the article mean nothing to me – they might as well be anonymous. Anyway the article stands and falls on its content.

  23. aerobubble 24

    Parliament is an adversarial chamber. As can be seen as the Speaker keeps taking sides against the opposition, but I think that’s not the purpose of the Speaker to sit around and listen (and laugh) with the government points. Take for example the way the speaker does not jump in to the highly political questions that National asks its own ministers, the more boring they are, the more irrelevant, the more parliamentary time they take up, the less useful parliament is. But its worse, the Speaker allows the government to spend minutes on ‘good news’ dross, statistics and governing nonsense.

    Yet when the opposition put up in any way, a slight against the government the government are up on there feet giving renditions of opposition policy, and welll might they, as the Speaker has allowed government to preach its own policies off its own questions, letting the government preach wrongheaded views of opposition policies seems so justified.

    Question time is a time used to hold the government to account, so the asking of patsy questions that appeal to the government is a waste of time and should be ruled out of order, I never get to hear opposition policies stated without contention from the Speaker.

    Ministers have a ministry stacked with knowledge that oppositions do not have access to, so it seems quite wrong for the Speaker to argue that balance means equality. Opposition questions, without the wrap around of a minister office, or having never been in government, are likely to be politically tinged, whereas ministers have no such excuse. For the Speaker to be unbiased he needs a thicker left ear and a much more honed right ear. Where questions are not of a higher charged nature, where they do not hit home, then the Speaker has the duty to call into the questioners waste of parliamentary time (and eject government ministers who revere their own great leadership).

    So the Speaker should ignore political questions where the underlying question is well purposed.

    And the Speaker should eject Joyce, for his nonsense. Joyce has a problem with nuance. Greens correctly informed the market about power policy, and correctly point out that National power sell off is a failure yet Joyce does not believe those two acts of opposition can him are justifiable. That’s just nonsense, he may not understand that being principled can come across as contrary, he obviously has never done principled politics.

    • karol 24.1

      Yeah. I’m getting thoroughly bored with Question Time. it’s a farce and has little to do with democracy.

  24. Draco T Bastard 25

    Dairy will destroy our waterways

    The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment released a major report today on Water quality in New Zealand: Land use and nutrient pollution. The core finding? Continued dairy expansion will pollute our waterways, rendering them unusable for recreation or drinking:

    And yet National and several city councils want more of this. All they see is the money and fail to see the reality behind it.

  25. James Thrace 26

    Can’t reply on mobile. Cant imagine why I put in Andrew Little… stil Paul Goldsmith is a pillock. No one should be excluded from taking a pg case.

    • Tracey 26.1

      fair enough. Everyone makes mistakes. Take Mr and Mrs Goldsmith for instance 😉

    • Hayden 26.2

      Fair cop. Is Paul Goldsmith good for anything other than a little pulling-down-signs hilarity?

      No one should be excluded from taking a pg case.

      No. Not even employees of less than 90 days’ standing.

  26. Paul 27

    Another right wing hack on Mora’s show.
    Josie Pagani.

    • vto 27.1

      I don’t mean to be mean but there were a few different planets spinning on that te panel with nary a near miss

  27. Rogue Trooper 28

    Adams obscures 😉 Anadarko Oil Spill Risk of Kaikoura
    Report: 70% probability of a ‘reportable’ incident (not just spills) at Kaikoura well within a year of exploration opening; 7 Times more probable on a deep-sea exploration drill than an in-shore one. Bridges pours more slick on.

    -He’s a Bright’on that David Cunliffe 😀

    • McFlock 28.1

      And the petrolobbyists reckon “reportable incident” includes a cut finger.

      Why would you be seven times more likely to cut a finger 100km in the new spots rather than off Taranaki?

  28. Rogue Trooper 29

    …and that’s the effect of dairying; a zero-sum dirty game

  29. vto 30

    if only we all took the long view

  30. Morrissey 31

    “When was the last time I lost the plot?”
    Leighton Smith snarls at critic of deep sea oil-drilling

    NewstalkZB, Thursday 21 November 2013, 9:10 a.m.

    “Newstalk ZB is for ignorant louts, the intellectually challenged and the modern day version of the 1930s brown shirts.”—Anne, The Standard, 9 August 2013

    As I was driving the Breenmobile around the East Coast Bays this morning, I chanced on the following brief encounter involving a caller (Mike) trying, unwisely, to talk intelligently with NewstalkZB’s most notorious loon, the race-baiting supercrank and science-denier Leighton Smith. Hatin’ Leighton spent a couple of minutes reflecting on the escapades of Toronto’s crack-smoking mayor Rob Ford, then came down from Mt Olympus to took his first call…..

    LEIGHTON SMITH: Ummmmm, ahhhhhhhh. Ummmmmm, it’s ten minutes past nine. Ummmmmmmmmmm. Mike is on the line.
    CALLER MIKE: Yes, Leighton, it’s quite amazing how these politicians can get away with behavior like that.
    LEIGHTON SMITH: Hrrrrumph.
    MIKE: It’s hard to get information out of politicians. They do their best to hide it from the public.
    LEIGHTON SMITH: Hrrrrumph. Ahhhhmmmmmm….
    MIKE: I hear that Gareth Hughes is finding it very difficult to get information about deep sea oil drilling.
    LEIGHTON SMITH: [suddenly hostile] What’s THAT got to do with it?
    MIKE: This is the biggest issue of our time.
    MIKE: Deep sea oil drilling off our coasts is the biggest issue in New Zealand at this time.
    LEIGHTON SMITH: You wouldn’t happen to be OPPOSED to it by any chance, would you?
    MIKE: I’m not opposed to all oil drilling. Just to dangerous oil drilling.
    LEIGHTON SMITH: Ummmmmmm, ahhhhhhhh. You don’t think you should be concerned about your own state of mind, and possible depression?
    MIKE: [taken aback] I’m not depressed. You’re playing games.
    LEIGHTON SMITH: Ummmm, ahhhhhhh. When was the last time you heard me being cranky? When was the last time I lost the plot? Thanks for your call. [Long pause.] He thought I was having a go at him, but I wasn’t. Was I? I just wanted to have a conversation with him. He’s actually put me in a good mood! Back in a minute!

    ……Advertisements, including this station promo: “From the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed: NewstalkZB is one long conversation!” A montage of NewstalkZB voices, including Larry “Lackwit” Williams snarling, “This GARBAGE!” and Mike “Contra” Hosking ranting against state housing.

    LEIGHTON SMITH: Ummmmm, ahhhhhhh. Some of you have been very UNKIND about Mike! “This guy’s off the planet,” says one text. Here’s another one: “Please kill this call because I’m losing the will to live.” Leonie, you are VERY unkind! It is ahhhhhhh, ummmmmmmm, twenty-five past nine…..

    More Leighton Smith nonsense….

    Open mike 20/12/2012

    • Anne 31.1

      “Newstalk ZB is for ignorant louts, the intellectually challenged and the modern day version of the 1930s brown shirts.”—Anne, The Standard, 9 August 2013

      I did say that too. Nary a truer word hath been spoke. 😈

      Once in a blue moon, an idle twisting of the dial lands me on the Leighton Smith Show. Every time within minutes of tuning in, the brown shirt in question launches into yet another climate change denying diatribe. To say he’s obsessed with, and ignorant of, the reality of the scientific evidence is an understatement.

  31. so..did helen clark agree to the american request for their spooks to spy on new zealanders..?

    ..when they asked..?

    ..and if she had disagreed/said ‘no’..

    ..do you think the americans would have given her the green-light/tick for her u.n. job..

    ..’cos make no mistake..had they said ‘no’..clark would not today be in new york..

    ..so it would appear to have been ‘yes!’es all around..




    ..and has john key just allowed that spying on us to continue/expand..?

    ..i think we all know the answer to that one..


    phillip ure..

    • vto 32.1

      Yes phil ure, we do need an answer to that question.

      And what difference would it make to their ‘spying’ if they told us anyway? If they said “yes, we are recording everything you punch into a key board” then so what?

      don’t make no difference
      don’t make no difference

      except for what gets punched into a key board

    • Anne 32.2

      ..did helen clark agree to the american request for their spooks to spy on new zealanders..? … do you think the americans would have given her the green-light/tick for her u.n. job..

      Actually it was revealed a couple of years or more ago that Ban Ki moon had Clark in his sights for the job immediately following the 2008 election. She was approached by him (or an intermediary on his behalf) not the other way around. That is my recollection anyway. The US has no more influence on UN decision making than any other nation.

      You should read Nicky Hagar’s book “Other People’s Wars” phillip ure. It concerns Afghanistan, Iraq and the war on terror. The Clark government was not informed about quite a few things that happened involving NZ Defence personnel in the name of those wars. I would expect that any spying by the Americans on NZers during Labour’s tenure in office did not occur with their knowledge and blessing. Certainly there would have been formal communications concerning a handful of citizens with suspect contacts in the above countries, but wholesale spying? Not with Clark’s approval – that’s a given!

      • phillip ure 32.2.1

        and that’s a matter of faith on yr part..anne..not a ‘given’..

        ..the facts are that according to the latest snowden leaks..the americans spied on their five eyes partners..

        ..and in the case of britain..the prime minister was asked and gave permission..

        ..why would/should that be any different here..?

        ..to me..that is both the ‘given’..

        ..and the question that needs answering..

        ..i’m afraid i don’t share yr belief..anne..

        ..phillip ure..

        • Anne

          They spied on Angela Merkel and German citizens without her knowledge. Why would Helen Clark be any different?

          As for the British PM… Cameron is part of a very close relationship between the two countries. The UK and the US have been a terrible twosome for years. It’s not a belief phillip ure. I know Helen. I suspect you don’t.

          Dare you to read “Other People’s Wars.” You might discover quite a lot of things. Might even change your mind.

          • phillip ure

            anne..just because you ‘know helen’..

            ..does not mean she would necessarily share information such as that with you..?


            ..and do you believe key is letting the americans spook all over us..?

            ..and if so..

            ..do you think that spooking started with him..

            ..and not under clark..?

            ..phillip ure..

          • Colonial Viper

            In theory being one of the Five Eyes, NZ should have a higher degree of protection

            HOWEVER this latest report shows that the UK govt gave away their citizens protection to the US…and the US were about to take it away from the UK anyways.


            • aerobubble

              Snowden worked for a ?private? company with the govt contract?…. ….if you want conspiracy to believe why not choose greed, the dot come market had run its course, some arab terrorists were flagged training in the US to fly planes, the markets were due for a collapse (global derivatives company went bust).

              Opportunity to sit on hands and be in front to move the new apparatus up into position.

              Now the US has a global model of the world economy, and can drill down into any board room on the planet. This can now not be ignored by the US’s allies.

              Its the economy stupid.

              • Colonial Viper


                It was about the economy. And sure, TBTF and the other corporates are grabbing everything they can asap before they have to run out the door. It is of course, an insane, sociopathic game of building up points on electronic score boards (printed $) with the unrealistic assumption that its going to be worth a damn in real life after the ecosystem collapses and our fossil fuelled global civilisation starts grinding to a halt.

                So it was about the economy. Now it’s primarily about the oligarchy maintaining power and control in the face of an increasingly restive homeland. Put it another way; we are well into the transition from Huxley to Orwell.

  32. chris73 33


    – Is someone in Labour trying to trip up Cunliffe?

    • rhinocrates 33.1

      Hi chris73, been flashing your willy at any octogenarians lately (since you’ve said that was your favourite fantasy)?

      • chris73 33.1.1

        Hi rhinocrates, I’d take your comments more seriously if you hadn’t outed yourself as a coward in real life

        • rhinocrates

          Why should you take me seriously? I don’t. And you talking about “courage”? Oh dear…

          Yep, I’m a coward, I’m fat, I’m balding – I have all sorts of faults.

          So tell us all about your enormous dick since you’re so proud of it.

          • chris73


            • rhinocrates

              You’re a big shiny red button and I just can’t resist pushing it. Go ahead please.

              • chris73

                Oh well since your being honest I guess I’ll be honest as well…

                I don’t expect that what I’m about to say will have any effect on you at all but for what its worth I respect courage, I respect people who take a stand, I may not agree with what they’re saying or doing but I respect the courage behind it

                You in my opinion are a coward, in fact you’re cliche, you’re the type of blogger the media loves to portray, the type thats big and tough in front of a keyboard but in reality is nothing more then a scared little boy

                When I type something on here or other websites I always think to myself “would I say this to the other person in real life”

                Do you?

                • rhinocrates

                  Push the button and he lights up…

                  OK, you’re missing the point, chew toy. Stop flexing your biceps and just go down to the beach and kick sand in your own face.

                  I would say what I say here to anyone in real life, and they’d get the joke.

                  The only people who can hurt me are those I love – go ahead and make me love you if you like.

                  … and anyway, I’m not a pervert who fantasises about sex with elderly women.

                  • chris73

                    Lie to me all you like I don’t care but what I know is if you and met in real life you wouldn’t say any of the things to me that you’ve posted on here and that makes you a coward and a liar

                    • rhinocrates

                      Wow, a complete syntax breakdown – we might even be seeing a full scale tantrum here!

                      God I’m cruel. Sorry everyone.

                    • bad12

                      Rhino might not, but i certainly fucking would…

                    • fappity

                      No this is a full scale tantrum.

                      Open mike 10/11/2013

                    • rhinocrates

                      Look at it this way “fappity”… do you understand the nature of power? The cops have power and they routinely abuse it. I’ve a lot of friends whose experiences would in themselves be automatic Godwins because they have seen up close and personal Nazism and Stalinism. If you aren’t scared by that, you’re an arselicking fool.

                      What are you going to say? “It can’t happen here”? That’s the usual one.

                    • rhinocrates


                      Oh I would, no doubt about that. I’m worse in real life and apologise much less.

                      I’ve had students say to my face that they think I’m like Hannibal Lecter, the Joker and Tony Soprano and meant – judging by their expressions and tone of voice – to compliment me.

                      Again: If I love you, you can hurt me. Otherwise… nah.

                    • fappity

                      Yeah……nah you’re just another sad internet blowhard…. a man of your age squawking about the police and calling them pigs then having a big cry, it’d be quite funny if it wasn’t so pathetic.

                    • rhinocrates

                      Oh “fappity” is back, pulling faces and blowing raspberries. I’m sorry, but I can’t reply in depth since there’s not even the remotest semblance of syntax or intimation of meaning.

                      “You’re sad”

                      Actually I have depression and take pills for it. Next insult please.

                      Make me love you and then you can hurt me.

                • Murray Olsen

                  I tell all my mates in real life that right wing trolls are wankers, same as I say here. I don’t really get the point of this real life stuff. Does it prove something? On the internet, I’ve had to learn not to spit for emphasis. Makes a mess of the screen.

                  • chris73

                    I tell all my mates in real life that right wing trolls are wankers, same as I say here.

                    – Good

                    I don’t really get the point of this real life stuff. Does it prove something?

                    – Its quite easy to say anything you like because of the protection of distance but its meaningless you’re willing to back it up face to face

                    – Thats why I tend to reflect other peoples attitudes back towards them ie if people are civil to me then I’m civil back if people are arseholes to me well then I’m an arsehole back etc etc

        • Murray Olsen

          I didn’t see a coward. I saw a person full of empathy, worried about how legal protections are disappearing, being more worried than I would have been by an unexpected phone call.

          We can’t all be as tough as you, piss73. I’m too scared to even wave my walking stick at people on the internet. I wish I had a huge e-penis like you, or are you just a dick?

          • chris73

            He sounded off against Marshall
            He freely entered his contact details
            He chickened out of having a conversation via phone with Marshall
            He left paranoid ramblings about his misadventures
            and not that its that important but he also started talking about my penis first, tried to suggest I’m homophobic and that I have rape fantasies about elderly women

            So if I’m a dick I’m going to out on a limb and suggest this guys a bigger dick then I

            • rhinocrates

              “He sounded off against Marshall”

              Apparently disrespect for an incompetent police officer is a crime? Good to see your essential authoritarianism so plain.

              “He freely entered his contact details”

              In good faith, expecting due process, not intimidation.

              “He chickened out of having a conversation via phone with Marshall”

              I know too many eastern european and german friends who’ve had unwelcome knocks at the door not to be freaked by that.

              You are the one who claimed to have raped my mother, scum.

              Stop rolling about on the floor pretending to be a victim.

  33. greywarbler 34

    Slavoj Zizek – Listen to this terrific guy, if you can’t watch him, turn away or just listen to the audio.

    Living in the End Times According to Slavoj Zizek from lectures

    Odd things that have stayed in my mind – I will have to watch again.

    How we are being undermined by the Right. In Italy Berlusconi and his system suspended rights and went into emergency powers and that might be that they could clear parks to prevent rape. It’s a mixing of left wing thoughts, with right wing domination.
    Italy, he says it is like Duck Soup Groucho Marx film, having Berlusconi in power.

    The left has concentrated on people’s rights gay, etc. and left the large core of left ideas for the Right to pick up. Now we are being subverted. Very interesting.

    Point of view put forward by one speaker:
    If capitalism had been able to work we wouldn’t be where we are today.
    It’s government interference. If capitalism had been able to work everything would have gone down, and the cleansing system of capitalism would have got everything right. Zizek says that it is not the socialists that have brought this about its capitalism out of control. You never admit the system is wrong he says. He quotes the communists in Yugoslavia coming out with the very same thought.

    • rhinocrates 34.1

      Thanks GW, always interested in SZ.

      • karol 34.1.1

        SZ is interesting – agree with many things he says, but not all.

        He was at a conference in Auckland a few years back. One of the things that sticks in my mind is him talking about how he avoids doing “office hours” – ie those hours when a Uni lecturer or tutor is meant to be available to talk with students. he really doesn’t like Office Hours.

  34. Herodotus 35

    To get around Low Equity Mortgages banks are, from my sources. approaching real estate agents and some potential new home owners with good earning capabilities, to increase their equity by offering extremely low credit cards (interest rates around 3%)Even though credit cards are unsecured (that is why we pay 19%interest rates), that should the debt be defaulted this would still be tied to the property.
    Wonder how the authorities feel about such discrepancies of interest rates and how the banks can justify charging from 3% to some and 19+% for the rest. 🙁

  35. chris73 36

    Wow, a complete syntax breakdown – we might even be seeing a full scale tantrum here!

    God I’m cruel. Sorry everyone.

    – Yes that is exactly what is happening here, you got me. I’ll say one thing for you and thats you don’t lack self-belief

  36. xtasy 37

    Given certain posts and threads of comments over the last week or so, which to me are reaching a bit into the “bizarre” territory of discussion, and having dared to question some “slogans” and “sloganised” arguments, I will try to in future stay away from The Standard, apart from perhaps commenting now and then on Open Mike.

    It is my strong conviction, that “the left” that chooses to express themselves here under various names and from various groups are representing certain views and positions, that I can partly accept, but I feel that most of society will not understand and accept. That is not my worry, so I leave it up to the democratic process for that to be dealt with.

    At NO TIME did I ever try to excuse or support “rape” or anything of such behaviour, and what came out of all that has disappointed me, yes shocked me, and it taught me, to stay well clear of certain commenters and bloggers here now.

    As for what concerns me and some other personally, I am posting this to simply remind those that are interested, what deserves attention, analysis and resolution. I will NOT support any future party that does not address this, does not distance itself from this, and that keeps quiet on this:




    Also of interest should be:




    I know the forum it has been posted on has received a bit of controversy re some “members”, but apart from that it was created and is being maintained for the purpose of informing persons on issues, and how they can find help, perhaps.

    That is also where I and a few I know and have cooperated with are coming from, and hence we will maintain all said, written and posted, and push for this to get more public attention.

    While this may disinterest certain more “politically minded” various persons here, I leave it to all others, and the many readers, to make use of and to judge or decide on.

    Best wishes Standardistas, have a “happy new year” coming up!

    • Rogue Trooper 37.1

      “Best Wishes” to you xtasy.

    • bad12 37.2

      i think your violin need a tune up X, it seems to play this same song over and over again…

      • Rogue Trooper 37.2.1

        are you pluckin’ their strings.

      • xtasy 37.2.2

        “bad12”, with all respect, I accept that I am diagnosed as “mentally ill”, so perhaps understand some previous “songs” and “violins”. Being ill like this does not mean “insanity”, although at times I may have been close to it, but then again, it takes a genius to be bordering on insanity.

        I have nothing more to say, but perhaps you may understand now, I do withdraw for my own mental health, and perhaps that of others. Besides of that, the information I provided remains to be valid, irrespective of my mental state. Good luck I appreciated always your smart thoughts, but sometimes against me. Life is a never ending journey, hopefully leading to some maturity and wisdom.

        • ropata

          Illegitimi non carborundum, xtasy

        • bad12

          Lolz X, i thought you might take my little comment in the vein that you have, the violin overture i hint at has nothing to do with the useful information you provide and is simply a reference to your developing preference to indulge in the little ‘drama queen moments’ where you are leaving this site, restricting your comments on this site etc etc,

          Having over the course of many year been diagnosed by the Doctors in charge as being afflicted with, depending upon ‘their moods’ it would seem, untreatable bouts of psychotic behavior to full on paranoid schizophrenia i will regrettably decline what i see as your open invitation to label myself a genius,(criminal madman in my case seems more appropriate),

          Keep commenting X and learn that this is a little battlefield of ideas where if you believe in the content of the comments you post you fight with all and sundry without either a backward step or a moan about the comments of those who disagree with your point of view all the while realizing that all of us, even the self appointed genius, are wrong sometimes and only the bigger person is willing to admit that…

  37. Fisiani 38

    TV3 News saw The Cunliffe score an own goal with his oil hyperbole exposed for all to see again. Will he never learn. Each time he is on TV the Labour vote drops.

    • lprent 38.1

      Will he never learn. Each time he is on TV the Labour vote drops.

      Ummm I’m sure that if I wanted to make the effort of doing a search, then I could find you saying exactly the same thing in the same words about the previous two Labour party leaders. It also wouldn’t surprise me that if I looked into your IP pattern, I could find you making exactly the same observation about Helen Clark and Michael Cullen…

      If I did make that effort, then I’d have to assist you to amend your behaviour. If you are going to troll, then at least do it so that I don’t get bored. Then I won’t feel like booting you off the site like a bad TV advertisement. It isn’t you opinion, it is your lamearse pisspoor excuse of a way of trolling. It is so frigging awful that neither I nor anyone else can be arsed listening to your appalling lack of originality. You are a wit that is just witless.

      This is particularly the case incidentally when you jump from negative advertising to that rather horrible slavish purse-dog imitation you do whenever you mention the Great and Wonderful Leader.. You read like a Paul Goldsmith biography.

      Here – try the mirror… Looks like Paula Bennetts purse..

      Clear? I don’t think it will be long before I get moved to boot you off the site again.

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  • $14.7m for jobs training and education
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  • Is it time to further recognise those who serve in our military?
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  • Paving the way for a fully qualified early learning workforce
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  • Sport Recovery Package announced
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  • Legal framework for COVID-19 Alert Level referred to select committee
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  • New Zealand condemns shocking attacks on hospital and funeral in Afghanistan
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  • A modern approach to night classes
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