Open mike 22/05/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 22nd, 2020 - 138 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

138 comments on “Open mike 22/05/2020 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Andre 1
    22 May 2020 at 7:16 am

    Hang in there Simon! Just remember, Bill led the party to a vote share of 20.93% yet he went on to become Prime Munster. Helen had 6 years of lousy polling and one lost election before she succeeded. You can do it, Simon. Have faith and tough it out!

  2. Andre 2
    22 May 2020 at 7:40 am

    It can't open and close gates or do fencing. Yet. But it’s got rolling in something nasty sorted.

    https://www.sciencealert.com/spot-the-robot-dog-is-now-herding-sheep-in-new-zealand

    • lprent 2.1
      22 May 2020 at 7:51 am

      That was interesting and kind of creepy.

    • Robert Guyton 2.2
      22 May 2020 at 8:39 am

      How bucolic.

      • Andre 2.2.1
        22 May 2020 at 8:49 am

        Yeah. When they take over, I'm really going to miss the dulcet tones of small petrol engines and large diesels. All lacking effective mufflers on their exhausts.

    • RedLogix 2.3
      22 May 2020 at 8:44 am

      Another aspect is that these could improve productivity in tropical agriculture which has traditionally been limited by the intensive labour needed for the crops grown in these climates.

      That could conceivably change the prospects for chronically poor nations like the Phillipines.

      • francesca 2.3.1
        22 May 2020 at 8:55 am

        I think it would be difficult to replace humans in agriculture, without inviting a world of trouble .

        We already reap the bitter rewards of factory farming

        There's a true stewardship of the soil thats not just about inputs and outputs , spraying for pests and diseases etc , as if the earth is a mechanical being

        Regenerative agriculture depends on acute observation over time ,and an intuitive "learning" of each complex environment

        Only humans can have the serendipitous moments necessary

        • RedLogix 2.3.1.1
          22 May 2020 at 9:07 am

          I totally understand what you are saying; it makes sense and I've no argument. I wasn't imagining humans being replaced. As an automation engineer I've had the chance to see the impact up close and personal’ and everything I’ve seen is that automation works to amplify and assist human capacity. It has no independent existence.

          In my view no automation or AI system will ever replace human consciousness. Superhuman AI will turn out to be one of what Vernor Vinge called 'the failed dreams'.

          The reason is that consciousness is not computational. (And if Roger Penrose says so that's good enough for me.)

        • Andre 2.3.1.2
          22 May 2020 at 9:14 am

          Where machines shine is being able to do the simple routine tasks that are able to be condensed into an algorithm. Thereby freeing up time for humans to be able to do more observing, learning, and synthesis of new and different ways of doing things.

          • weka 2.3.1.2.1
            22 May 2020 at 11:20 am

            which is good in a factory, not so much in nature.

            Shocking to some I know, but farms are nature not factories.

            • KJT 2.3.1.2.1.1
              22 May 2020 at 12:58 pm

              W've been hearing about autonomous ships for decades, now.

              In reality they haven't even developed controls and machinery, that can get reliably through a day, without human intervention.

              • weka …
                22 May 2020 at 1:11 pm

                I really don't get the whole automation ideology. Let's use that where appropriate, but there's nothing wrong with people doing things. Lots of people love growing food (and I assume love working on ships), so why not take advantage of that and design systems that are good for people and are functional.

                • RedLogix …
                  22 May 2020 at 2:31 pm

                  Yup. And that's the general pattern, automation is best thought of as a tool to extend human capacity, not to replace it.

              • RedLogix …
                22 May 2020 at 2:29 pm

                In reality they haven't even developed controls and machinery, that can get reliably through a day, without human intervention.

                I once got a major water treatment plant to run autonomously for 9 days without operator intervention … it was quite an accomplishment!

                But in general you are right, and it's my view that the prime role of automation is to reliably control the routine, predictable tasks and free up the humans involved so that they can focus their much more flexible and creative energies on higher value add.

                Autopilots are a good example you will familiar with, no-one hand steers any more than they have to or enjoy doing these days. And the modern versions do a better job of holding track than a human anyway. On the other hand deciding where the track should be plotted still remains a task better suited to people. Usually.

      • greywarshark 2.3.2
        22 May 2020 at 2:17 pm

        RL Now that's a point. The temp is said to be going beyond what humans can cope with working in the fields growing food, and can’t do enough with new tech or have enough covers, already is in India etc. So robots to do that would make sense. Unfortunately, the way our 'civilisation' is configured these days, the good of robotising will be compromised by the attack/defence capabilities. But what can't be cured must be endured perhaps.

    • gsays 2.4
      22 May 2020 at 8:49 am

      Funny. Yesty, the boss was talking about her teen son's idea.

      Getting 2 or 3 lawnmower robots. We have about 60 lawns ranging from about 2 square metres up to around 50 square metres.

      I smiled enthusiastically when mention of a drone to control them came up.

      • greywarshark 2.4.1
        22 May 2020 at 2:22 pm

        What about thoughts of having city lawn clippings as base for silage for farmers? Ever pursued that idea gsays, it would have to be planned, done carefully, a range of weeds kept out and no spraying, and people take responsibility but it could mean free lawn mowing for them.

        • gsays 2.4.1.1
          22 May 2020 at 3:32 pm

          I work in a senior lifestyle village.

          Rather than silage, I investigated and proposed composting of grass clippings, leaf mulch, tree trimmings and the kitchen scraps.

          The compost would be returned to the sub standard soil that is found in most new housing developments.

          Long story short (too late!), the residents had concerns about appearances, smell and rats. The management didn't see the benefits…. I have walked this earth long enough to try and convince folk against their will.

          Every time I tip another catcher full of clippings into the skip bin, a little part of me dies. Then the last two frosty mornings the bin has been toasty warm with the decomposition starting up.

      • McFlock 2.4.2
        22 May 2020 at 2:58 pm

        I read a while back that the DCC had bought a remote control lawnmower – still needed a remote control unit run by an operator, but it was intended to make mowing slopes safer. Ah, here we are.

        The fun question is "if the drone controls the mowers, what controls how the drone controls the mowers?"

        Not sure I like the idea of autonomous mowers – we don't need to give our robots-gone-berserk edged weapons. Very sci-fi peasant revolt, that.

        • KJT 2.4.2.1
          22 May 2020 at 3:15 pm

          Ha. Reminds me of my Dad telling us, about the self propelled mower that got away from him, and ended up drowned in the Avon. Briggs and Stratton petrol reel mower, of course.

          More recently the automated straddle carrier, that made a bid for freedom in a Dutch port. Through the gate and down the street.

          My own favourite machinery with a life of their own, are Lister and Gardener diesels, that have to be thoroughly suffocated to get them to stop. Unlike modern ones, where one dud chip on an electronics board can kill them

        • gsays 2.4.2.2
          22 May 2020 at 3:37 pm

          On an unrelated subject, I was on University Tube looking to upgrade my drill press with a DC permanent magnet motor from a treadmill…

          Anyhow, one of the videos talked about fancy saw benches have 'flesh detectors', that shut down the motor when your fingers get too close.

          I figure these lawn automatons would have a similar tech involved.

          • McFlock 2.4.2.2.1
            22 May 2020 at 7:04 pm

            I suspect it's easier to train a computer to distinguish between wood and a finger than it is between fresh mulch or dog turds and a finger.

            • Nic the NZer 2.4.2.2.1.1
              22 May 2020 at 8:06 pm

              Easier to train as long as your willing to lose a bunch of fingers getting there.

              The SawStop works by running a small electric current through the saw blade and detecting when its interrupted by an electrically conductive body part.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SawStop

              • gsays …
                22 May 2020 at 9:59 pm

                Thanks for the reading.

                There are 10 table saw amputations a day in the US.

                " After numerous tests using a hot dog as a finger-analog, in spring 2000, Gass conducted the first test with a real human finger: he applied Novocain to his left ring finger, and after two false starts, he placed his finger into the teeth of a whirring saw blade. The blade stopped as designed, and although it "hurt like the dickens and bled a lot," his finger remained intact."

                sends a shudder down the spine.

                I have gone to a mates workshop to find doors open, blood spattered table saw outside and no-one around.

                He lost his right index finger-tip.

  3. francesca 3
    22 May 2020 at 7:58 am

    Ever seen the Black Mirror series?

    There's an episode with post-apocalyptic survivors being hunted by super wired dog robots.Horrifying

    • I Feel Love 3.1
      22 May 2020 at 8:36 am

      Metalheads, my first thought too, brilliant episode, brilliant series. Check out Black Mirrors creator Charlie Brookers Anti Viral Wipe (about UKs response to pandemic) on YouTube for a good laugh and also quite insightful.

      • Wensleydale 3.1.1
        22 May 2020 at 4:02 pm

        I've been a fan of Charlie Brooker's since he wrote for nerdy games mag, PC Zone during the '90s. He's viciously hilarious and his books are great. They should really make him PM.

    • RedLogix 3.2
      22 May 2020 at 8:56 am

      Yes and it will happen too. All tools get misused, the problem is always the workman.

    • Molly 3.3
      22 May 2020 at 9:05 am

      No. But I can imagine.

      I also think that the military in many countries will already be/or looking into weaponising these.

      • RedLogix 3.3.1
        22 May 2020 at 9:10 am

        Yup. Absolutely and we will live to see the horror. Sorry if that comes across as grim.

        • Molly 3.3.1.1
          22 May 2020 at 9:17 am

          Might not be age-appropriate for the TS audience, but after having and reading the Harry Potter series to four children – (should have bought Stephen Fry's audiobooks when they came out) your Grim reference immediately struck me as appropriate.

          " The Grim is an omen of death, which is reputed to bring about the demise of the person who encounters it. The Grim takes the shape of a large, black, menaching, spectral dog. "

          (BTW: Still trying to keep the offspring reading. Just bought two Terry Pratchett novels for the nineteen year old's birthday next week. It's a shared enjoyment.)

          • RedLogix 3.3.1.1.1
            22 May 2020 at 9:22 am

            Pratchett is wonderful; he's the only other author I still keep a full collection of every published novel I could buy. (The other is of course Vernor Vinge.)

            Going Postal was pure genius.

            • Molly 3.3.1.1.1.1
              22 May 2020 at 11:50 am

              Thanks, will check out Vernor Vinge for him. He's still likes collections…

              He has the book for Going Postal, and we all enjoyed the miniseries. Even the youngest.

              Was delighted to find four pristine Pratchett hardcover books in our local charity shop last year – 25c each.

              I absolutely HATE shopping, but I was embarrassingly overjoyed to make that purchase.

            • halfcrown 3.3.1.1.1.2
              22 May 2020 at 12:45 pm

              Can't go wrong by reading Pratchett Red. I like the Big Bang Theory in one of his Disc world novels. Mort I think. I have it somewhere, will have to have a read of it again.

  4. mauī 4
    22 May 2020 at 8:32 am

    The wonderful Bob Clarkson (former MP) was just on the radio nationale. Said Todd is the equal of Simon, and would definitely be better than the "communist" currently in charge.

    Thank you Bob, for capturing the mood of the nation…

    • pat 4.1
      22 May 2020 at 8:39 am

      Bob who?

    • observer 4.2
      22 May 2020 at 8:42 am

      Worth repeating (from Colmar Brunton thread):

      28% of National voters disapprove of the "communist". That's 28% out of 29% which is … *counts fingers* … single digits.

      They don't even understand their own voters, never mind the rest of the country.

    • francesca 4.3
      22 May 2020 at 8:43 am

      haha was that Bob the Builder , who briefly ousted Winnie?

      • observer 4.3.1
        22 May 2020 at 8:54 am

        And then replaced by Bridges. The rising star.

        It'll be quite the twist of fate if Bridges leaves Parliament before Peters. He already knows he won't rise as high in government. Ouch.

        • francesca 4.3.1.1
          22 May 2020 at 9:06 am

          Wonder if he's willing to bet his left testicle?

        • swordfish 4.3.1.2
          22 May 2020 at 7:58 pm

          This is all getting a little incestuous:

          Peters = former MP for Tauranga

          Clarkson = former MP for Tauranga

          Bridges = current MP for Tauranga

          Muller = current MP for a Seat that is basically Tauranga Suburbs

    • millsy 4.4
      22 May 2020 at 8:55 am

      "Communist", really?

      Last time I looked, there was no nationalisation of businesses without compensation, collectivisation of land and agriculture or even purges of those seen as enemies of the state, unless you count Mike Hosking leaving 7 Sharp.

      People need to start calling the likes of Clarkson out.

      • Wayne 4.4.1
        22 May 2020 at 9:06 am

        You are calling him out.

      • observer 4.4.2
        22 May 2020 at 9:29 am

        "Mr Clarkson, the Prime Minister's critics say she has focused too much on keeping you alive, are you one of them?"

      • mac1 4.4.3
        22 May 2020 at 9:39 am

        A quick Google of 'Bob Clarkson MP' found that he had been called out by quite a few people in the media.
        Issues with Bob the Builder involved anti-gay and anti Muslim comments, stoushes with family over money, blaming people who lived near industrial sites for complaining about heath problems from dust.

        Now we find he doesn't like our "Communist" PM even though he does call by her first name. I presume that local National people called him out because he only had one term as Tauranga MP. Later news said he was leaving to join ACT.

        After all these years, a one term wonder is called back to comment on Bridges and Muller on RNZ. I listened to the interview. It's an interesting interview from the point of view of personal values and political support.

        RNZ did neither Muller or Bridges a favour by allying such support to them from this man.

    • I Feel Love 4.5
      22 May 2020 at 9:02 am

      "Our rights are being violated. That is all actually real," Stokes said. "But this is one of the few times that's ok. Pandemics – these call for a collectivist response. They don't work without one." An American gun rights activist gets it, the people calling Labour communist don't.

      I remember it was a trap lefties got into when National/Key were flying high, disparaging their supporters as stupid etc, I see it with the righties now, didn't work for us and shouldn't for them either.

      Also, I watched the One News last night, first time in years, and I waited to see what the Muller guy was gonna be like, and they had no footage, just some friends saying he wss a good "bugger" & that "maoris stole his flash sandwiches at school", or something.

      One last thing, to me the Labour numbers proves no one is listening to Hosking, Garner etc or reading the Herald.

    • RedBaronCV 4.6
      22 May 2020 at 11:58 am

      Who thought it was a good idea to put him up to give public comment and use airtime? He's a has been of the worst sort and his opinion as irrelevant as most of the public. It smacks of irresponsible journalists. What is national radio's guidelines for selecting commentators?

  5. Molly 5
    22 May 2020 at 8:57 am

    Interesting Guardian article yesterday about negative interest rates coming up in the UK.

    It refers to the Danish Jyske Bank which launched it's first negative interest mortgage rate last year:

    A Danish bank has launched the world’s first negative interest rate mortgage – handing out loans to homeowners where the charge is minus 0.5% a year.

    Negative interest rates effectively mean that a bank pays a borrower to take money off their hands, so they pay back less than they have been loaned.

    Jyske Bank, Denmark’s third largest, has begun offering borrowers a 10-year deal at -0.5%, while another Danish bank, Nordea, says it will begin offering 20-year fixed-rate deals at 0% and a 30-year mortgage at 0.5%.

    Under its negative mortgage, Jyske said borrowers will make a monthly repayment as usual – but the amount still outstanding will be reduced each month by more than the borrower has paid.

    “We don’t give you money directly in your hand, but every month your debt is reduced by more than the amount you pay,” said Jyske’s housing economist, Mikkel Høegh.

    In recognition of how puzzling the new mortgage is for customers, the bank’s FAQ is littered with questions and statements such as Hvordan kan det lade sig gøre? (How is that possible?) and Ja, du læste rigtigt (Yes, you read that right).

    The mortgage is possible because Denmark, as well as Sweden and Switzerland, has seen rates in money markets drop to levels that turn banking upside-down.

    Høegh said Jyske Bank is able to go into money markets and borrow from institutional investors at a negative rate, and is simply passing this on to its customers.

    But the flipside is that savers will see nothing paid in interest on their deposits – and may also suffer as they go negative."

    I'm thinking there may be benefits for this happening in New Zealand.

    1. Palatable or not, those best able to weather the financial implications of Covid will most often be those who have the excess income, and ability to amass savings. They will not gain interest but they will also retain equity on their savings, unless the savings are more than a specified amount, such as in Sweden:

    " In Switzerland, the bank UBS last week told its wealthy clients that it would introduce a charge of 0.6% a year if they deposited more than €500,000. "

    Those implications may mean that those with money may choose to invest in businesses or spend it which will circulate that money and improve the economy recovery.

    2. For mortgage holders, this will allow a practical relief from the financial commitment of a mortgage, while still maintaining a payment relationship with their bank. It may be able – in many cases – to offset financial hardship resulting from reduced pay or unemployment.

    3. A further benefit is, that if housing prices fall significantly (which would be a huge benefit to society) those who have entered the market lately, when it is most inflated, will have a reduced payment for the rest of the mortgage, offsetting a larger amount of equity loss than those who are at the end of their mortgages.

    That is, if a mortgage has been taken out for $500,000 today and goes for twenty years at 4.0% paid weekly, the interest paid over that time is $226,569 accounting for just over 31% If of payments during that time. (NB: I used the stuff mortgage calculator for these calculations)

    If that mortgage is transferred to what the Jyse bank offers there are two options:

    a. Keep the 20 year term and reduce the weekly payment to $481

    b: Retain your existing weekly payment of $699 and reduce your term to 14 years.

    c: A combination of either above.

    This is a reduction of around 30% of current mortgage commitments on offer. This provides a cushion for house prices to fall – 20-25% or more without causing excessive financial harm for home owners and tenants.

    For me, the elegance of this proposal is that those who are at the end of their mortgages – and will not gain as much benefit as those at the beginning – will have, during their mortgage term have already accumulated untaxed, and inflated capital gains so their direct investment will still be higher than what they have contributed. In fact, any mortgage transferring over will have built into it a proportional cost/benefit that relates to the loss of equity if house prices fall vs the reduction in interest payable on that property.

    This is kind of a follow up comment to the article I posted from the NEF last week.

    I am coming from the perspective that house prices and rental costs need to fall significantly – and have needed to for a while. I also understand that many NZers have all their financial wealth and security in their homes, and need to be considered.

    I would like to see our government administer or legislate for such a solution.

    Ideally, it would be a government agency, such as the State Advances Corporation that provided home loans to ex-servicemen.

    To facilitate rollout it may be necessary to provide in tranches depending on owner/occupier and citizenship status. I'd personally delay offering to family trusts or LLC's or overseas residents because their choice of vehicle provides them with some insulation from taxes, expense and financial shocks already.

    I'd be interested to hear from others about problems they can see with this proposal, to see if there are any kinks that needed to be worked out if it was to be a practical and possible option.

    (Quick correction: Just noticed the -0.5% bank rate only applies to 10 years and I used it for the whole 20 yr term, which is only offered at 0%. Will update on next comment)

    • Molly 5.1
      22 May 2020 at 9:09 am

      … still a term reduction of 6 years according to stuff at $699/wk.

    • Dennis Frank 5.2
      22 May 2020 at 9:41 am

      Hi Molly, it's a trend to watch for sure. When I grew up & got a savings account the bank paid me 3% interest to deposit money in it. Banking then had a structural incentive to get more custom. We may be returning to it!

      John Campbell interviewed a young asian guy who spoke our lingo like a kiwi a few days ago, about quantitative easing. He was representing the Reserve Bank on the TVNZ breakfast show. They've recently doubled their qe. He said the new money gets created as electronic credit (which I knew), which would have confounded many viewers but he was refreshingly forthright and sensible in not spooking them by calling those dollars imaginary. They become real when digitally invented.

      So the way to keep the economy going now is to invent money. Farmers could use this thinking in times of drought, eh? Invent rain. How? Well, easiest way is to catch and store it when it falls. They could call that process water conservation. Conservatives ought to conserve, eh? You'd think. The reason farmers don't is because they believe rain always falls eventually. As Tom Petty once sang "the waiting is the hardest part"…

      • Adrian 5.2.1
        22 May 2020 at 10:49 am

        Catching and storing rain is fine for targeted irrigation but the dam needs to be half the size of the farm for an effective grazing regime. And it does rain most of the time.

        The numbers around volume and weight for just 20mm on a thousand hectare farm are astronomical. Clever farming is a better option.

        • WeTheBleeple 5.2.1.1
          22 May 2020 at 1:18 pm

          That's utter nonsense.

          And even if it were true (it's total crap) aquaculture is more productive than farming, because gravity.

      • Nic the NZer 5.2.2
        22 May 2020 at 11:01 am

        I think the most important thing to understand about all this stuff was highlighted to me simply by the US economist Randell Wray (and recently I heard this idea repeated by the US Fed chairman in a public interview where he encouraged the US treasury to spend more).

        The statement (miss-quoted) is "the central bank lends and the treasury spends". Treasury spending gets spending moving including when facilitated by central QE programs to lower the government interest rates, but all the monetary policy stuff done by the central bank is about changing the interest rates and so all depends on the amount of interest in taking on loans.

      • Molly 5.2.3
        22 May 2020 at 11:31 am

        Hi Dennis, good analogy.

        Using that analogy, I would say that would require the government to direct the rain to fall more equitably, instead of providing torrential downpours on dams and giving the control to commercial banks and saying turn the taps on as you wish. (Or don't.)

      • Sacha 5.2.4
        22 May 2020 at 12:41 pm

        a young asian guy who spoke our lingo like a kiwi

        You mean a Chinese New Zealander or suchlike?

      • Nic the NZer 5.2.6
        22 May 2020 at 7:58 pm

        A post about many of the incorrect things you will hear said about government spending and its impacts on the economy. In this case highlighting that the Bank of England is presently falsifying many of these ideas.

        http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=45026

    • Nic the NZer 5.3
      22 May 2020 at 9:59 am

      That's a very interesting thing to observe, seeing this in practice doesn't make much sense to me however.

      Negative interest rates (which I believe Sweden's central bank is running) mean that the banks deposits with the central bank lose money. Collectively there is no way for the financial sector to rid itself of these excess deposits (other than lending them to the government) as any payments they make then go to another large financial institution. The upshot of this is that government debt often ends up lending at negative interest rates which are however lower than what the central bank is offering.

      This is what is going on with the charges banks are setting for holding onto large deposits.

      What makes little sense to me however is public loans at negative interest rates, and I suspect there is some missing piece such as a small number of these loans are made as an advertising ploy by the bank. The reason I understand things this way is because the interest component paid on a loan is basically the income part of the arrangement for the bank. If there is negative income to the arrangement then it makes little sense to enter into the loan agreement. Maybe Jyske bank is simply leading the pack in this case, but if all the banks are doing this then collectively it seems to make more sense to get out of the banking game.

      • Molly 5.3.1
        22 May 2020 at 11:23 am

        Your concerns are already covered in the comment, Nic. This is about ensuring everyone gets through intact. No interest on deposits does not remove equity, just encourages direct investment and spending.

        " Maybe Jyske bank is simply leading the pack in this case, but if all the banks are doing this then collectively it seems to make more sense to get out of the banking game. "

        Banks still can charge fees, as I believe Jyske does, but not excessively. Long-time the banks will be able to survive, and their chance of survival improves if the majority of their customers are financially secure. But we have businesses – banks included – that are not used to long-term thinking.

        And why can't the government play the game to benefit all NZers?

        • Nic the NZer 5.3.1.1
          22 May 2020 at 11:48 am

          Molly, I'm not saying it would be a bad thing if this happened. I just think its unlikely to be something which can be setup as a widespread part of the financial system, as your expecting banks to engage in widespread unprofitable lending. The long term thinking on that game is to stop being in the business of banking.

          I did consider that this can be a way to shrink the financial system which might be a good thing to do to some extent. I do think this aligns with something which seems to be not widely understood, but low (or even negative) interest rates are actually less favorable to banks than the high interest rates, which are supposed to be restraining their lending.

          • Molly 5.3.1.1.1
            22 May 2020 at 11:58 am

            I understand. But I'm not worried about the banks incentives. So, far the banks are not offering anything that doesn't improve their income substantially in the long term – which the mortgage holidays do. What the rent holidays don't necessarily do – is improve the financial security and well being of their clients.

            So, I'm trying to look at it from the perspective of the people of NZ, taking into account the inflated cost of housing that has continued not to be addressed, AND the NZ cultural attachment to housing as financial security. That is the problem I'm talking about and trying to address – not how to retain the bank as a commercial entity.

            • Nic the NZer 5.3.1.1.1.1
              22 May 2020 at 12:37 pm

              The facts became somewhat more clear when I read the guardian article in full. First its a Danish bank (which I was calling Swedish) and second the banks still make profit on the loans due to the associated fees.

              I suspect that in their banking system these fees are much higher than in New Zealand which has a much higher rate difference between the central bank (and money market interest rates) and commercial bank interest rates. In New Zealand the fees component is typically very small and often waived. This structure makes the New Zealand banks profitability much more opaque.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage_industry_of_Denmark

              I would suggest that to gain the social benefits the overall cost of lending is what is relevant rather than the specifics of only some of interest rates and costs involved in the lending.

              • Molly …
                22 May 2020 at 2:53 pm

                "I would suggest that to gain the social benefits the overall cost of lending is what is relevant rather than the specifics of only some of interest rates and costs involved in the lending. "

                I agree, and we need to start quantifying those benefits by some means in order to know where to rebuild the economy and support NZers. SROI (Social Return on Investment) has been around for a while now, but is not often referred to in policy statements or media articles while expected returns from events such as the America's Cup are calculated and accepted without much scrutiny.

          • RedBaronCV 5.3.1.1.2
            22 May 2020 at 12:07 pm

            I guess – without going into the role of the central bank – any single bank would make money by taking a deposit of $10k and then repaying $9500. It loans the $10k on mortgage but receives repayments of say $9700. So it would still have a $200 margin. I made the figures up for the above.

            • Nic the NZer 5.3.1.1.2.1
              22 May 2020 at 12:18 pm

              Its a question of how far $200 goes to paying the banks employees though, and also why you do if the borrower defaults (e.g stops making repayments).

              • RedBaronCV …
                22 May 2020 at 1:27 pm

                Same as banking now I expect – the margin plus any fees need to cover the banks expenses plus profit.

                • Nic the NZer …
                  22 May 2020 at 2:11 pm

                  Absolutely. As I highlighted in other comments in Denmark they pay a lot more in fees (including an annual percentage of the loan, as a fee), in New Zealand all the payments are rolled into interest rates, so by focusing on just the interest rates this is a bit miss leading when compared to New Zealand.

                  • Molly …
                    22 May 2020 at 2:58 pm

                    Yes, I understand that as well. Which is why I have suggested a Government run system that reduces those costs as much as possible.

                    The banks have been very profitable and have no incentive to reduce their income from clients or reducing the inflated housing costs. They are financially better off when these are as high as possible.

                    A government agency – however – can consider SROI when calculating cost/benefit and a create a system that does not need mortgage brokers and refixing every two-three years. A young relative working for one of the big four banks in the mortgage lending department receives quarterly bonuses in the tens of thousands for the process of refixing existing loans or signing up new ones. There's a lot of extraneous extras that are lost when a constant long-term loan at a fixed rate is entered into.

            • Molly 5.3.1.1.2.2
              22 May 2020 at 12:23 pm

              A bank in Switzerland is already doing that – charging clients for deposits over a certain amount.

              "Swiss banks are to start charging their super-rich clients to look after their piles of cash.

              UBS, the world’s largest wealth manager, told its ultra-wealthy clients on Tuesday that it would introduce an annual 0.6% charge on cash savings of more than €500,000 (£461,000). The fee, to be introduced in November, rises to 0.75% on savings of more than 2m Swiss francs (£1.7m).

              The minimum fee is €3,000 a year. Savings of 2m francs would attract an annual charge of 15,000 francs."

              In terms of addressing the mechanisms that produce inequality, this may also go some way to improve it. At a certain point when you have met all your financial requirements to live, and have saved enough to be secure, the current financial environment allows wealth to multiply and accumulate.

              Note: The Jyske bank also charges fees that cover admin and employment costs, but they are not excessive.

              Following the discussion with RedLogix above the following thoughts from the character of Samuel Vines seem appropriate:

              “The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

              Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

              But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet."

              This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.” – Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms: The Play

              Terry Pratchett, economist.

    • Molly 5.4
      22 May 2020 at 11:26 am

      Already thought of a possible improvement while AFK:

      IF landlords on a property take this option, they have to take the same term and the reduced payment amount and pass on at least 80% of that saving to the tenants. That would reduce financial rental pressure immediately.

      • pat 5.4.1
        22 May 2020 at 11:31 am

        That will happen anyway in current situation …and considerably faster.

        Negative rates are a very slow way of unwinding the effects of QE…. especially at -0.5%.

        • Molly 5.4.1.1
          22 May 2020 at 11:34 am

          Why and how do you think that will happen?

          I would expect quite a lot of turmoil for both homeowners, landlords and tenants that are financially stressed, and this mechanism might be a way of providing security in terms of housing without a lot of changes in ownership. (As well as providing a needed downwards pressure on housing and rental prices)

          “Negative rates are a very slow way of unwinding the effects of QE…. especially at -0.5%.”
          And why is slow considered a negative? This does allow a downward movement in housing prices and rentals – at -0.5% a 31% neutral position compared to maintaining the same mortgage at the current 4%.

          Given the love affair and financial security many NZers have with property, we need a plan to allow many to still feel and be financially secure while creating a more affordable housing environment for all.

          Any other ideas on how to do that would be great… because many have been waiting quite a while to access housing that is affordable and healthy without needing to overcrowd…

          • pat 5.4.1.1.1
            22 May 2020 at 11:48 am

            Thousands of under-utilised Air BnB properties, high and increasing unemployment, increasing State housing provision will drive it…..the same forces that will drive down property prices.

            Slow is considered negative because the need is now….the tenants and mortgagees cannot wait years or decades for the ratios to begin to become aligned with the real economy again.

            The RBNZ backstopping the banks is (I expect) designed to support that deflation while enabling bank viability….it would not surprise to see them take on the bad loan books of the banks and administer those mortgages in the near term to remove them from the private balance sheets. Hopefully they will have a mechanism to support owner occupied to continue and foreclose investment properties.

            • Molly 5.4.1.1.1.1
              22 May 2020 at 12:04 pm

              The mechanism you state, which is left to circumstance and commercial entities, will disrupt a lot of homeowners, landlords and tenants. The disruption may also continue for some time, and will result in NZers losing out – not banks who have benefitted from increasing debt levels for many years now. It just depends on where priorities lie.

              There will also be a fast response time to reduced mortgages – for financially strapped owners and tenants.

              If your housing costs are reduced immediately by 20-30% to offset the financial downturn and resulting constricting household incomes, then there is less likely to be disruption by the need to move or sell – AND find somewhere else to live. (Although, I think there still will be disruption and devastation, just perhaps reduced)

              I do agree that the state has to be more involved to direct the fallout, and ensure long-term benefits to NZers.

              • pat …
                22 May 2020 at 12:18 pm

                negative rates won't create that scale or speed of reduction (immediate)…and as stated the reduction is going to occur anyway, negative rates or not.

                And negative rates create other problems that make the whole regime problematic.

                The mechanism I outlined is hardly left to commercial entities and circumstance (market forces) for it involves market intervention by the state…..and its not as if it hasn't been done before.

                Back in the 80s high interest rate environment the government offered Housing Corp mortgages at considerably below market rate to distressed mortgages for owner occupiers….the mechanism may be different this time but the result will be the same.

                P.S. disruption is not going to be avoided no matter what is done.

                • Molly …
                  22 May 2020 at 12:29 pm

                  " Back in the 80s high interest rate environment the government offered Housing Corp mortgages at considerably below market rate to distressed mortgages for owner occupiers….the mechanism may be different this time but the result will be the same. "

                  What was the result from your perspective? Because the government also offered low rates to returned servicemen, and increased home ownership and security was also a result.

                  And, without rancour.. do you have any ideas about reducing the fallout without just allowing the market to crash? Another concern I have about that passive method is that on top of financial and housing disruption, it also reduces the likelihood of investment in improving housing stock standards, and our housing stock is still often disgracefully low in this regard.

                  (Already conceded disruption will occur, just looking to reduce the impact, while supporting NZ people – not entities)

                  • pat …
                    22 May 2020 at 12:38 pm

                    "What was the result from your perspective? Because the government also offered low rates to returned servicemen, and increased home ownership and security was also a result."

                    When the mortgage we had taken out at 8% hit 19% we applied for a housing corp refinance and from memory the rate was 11%…and the term extended to 24 years (greater than available in the market)…the result was we didn't lose our home.

                    "And, without rancour.. do you have any ideas about reducing the fallout without just allowing the market to crash?"

                    The market is going to crash whether we like it or not…the only question is by how much. I have outlined how I believe the RBNZ will reduce the fallout….remember they are required by statute to ensure the stability of the banking system but they have also stated the property ratios are unsustainable and create instability so really their options are very limited.

                    And if they bail out investors (in both residential and commercial) they create the same problem for themselves that the Fed did with their QE programme….they become captured by the underwrite and cannot withdraw it….which ultimately runs counter to their charter.

                    • pat …
                      22 May 2020 at 1:33 pm

                      "another concern I have about that passive method is that on top of financial and housing disruption, it also reduces the likelihood of investment in improving housing stock standards, and our housing stock is still often disgracefully low in this regard."

                      Gov is partially addressing this with increased social housing build and the improving standards can be covered by increased trades training though its not a given….there is room for much more particularly in regard to CC and density as Susan Krumdieck promotes.

                    • Molly …
                      22 May 2020 at 2:46 pm

                      I'm someone who thinks the inflated housing prices do need to come down – both for purchase and for rent.

                      The question is: Can this be equity adjustment occur WHILE still allowing people to live in and retain their current housing? You seem prepared to let the market which has failed us in terms of providing homes, crash AND then provide them.

                      You also seem to suggest you would support govt loans only for homeowners, but I don't think that would deflate the housing market substantially. Significantly, tenants would be delayed in receiving any benefit.

                      I would have landlords who don't use alternative entity vehicles such as trusts, or LLC's to be the next in line for government mortgages after owner occupiers.

                      Only if there was a capacity left, would you include commercial entities that trade in housing and rentals. I would also not offer the facility to overseas investors or non NZ citizens.

                      The current social housing programme is going to take a while to come online, and is inadequate unless you are counting on a vast load of properties to come on the market at diminished prices. Which while beneficial in terms of stock numbers, will have an ignored human cost to it, that might be avoided if some direct action is taken.

                      As mentioned, IF investors were included, they would only be able to take the reduced rate option AND be required to pass on the majority of that rate to tenants. Eg. they still get the 30% reduced payments over time to offset the expected loss of capital equity, and rental costs are directly and immediately reduced for tenants.

                  • pat …
                    22 May 2020 at 6:22 pm

                    "The question is: Can this be equity adjustment occur WHILE still allowing people to live in and retain their current housing? You seem prepared to let the market which has failed us in terms of providing homes, crash AND then provide them."

                    You appear to misunderstand …the equity adjustment is going to occur….and as it does we can (and I suspect will) provision home owners to remain in their homes.

                    "You also seem to suggest you would support govt loans only for homeowners, but I don't think that would deflate the housing market substantially. Significantly, tenants would be delayed in receiving any benefit."

                    Support for homeowners is correct….if you include provision for investors you are placing the floor under the market and encourage the lending…the deflation will occur because homeowners do not require a return…it is somewhere to live…whereas investors require the return to justify the investment.

                    Serviceability is the key

                    "I would have landlords who don't use alternative entity vehicles such as trusts, or LLC's to be the next in line for government mortgages after owner occupiers."

                    They can be next in line…but if the gov says sorry nothing for you then the deflation occurs….there is a disincentive for banks to provide finance.

                    "Only if there was a capacity left, would you include commercial entities that trade in housing and rentals. I would also not offer the facility to overseas investors or non NZ citizens. "

                    It is not a question of capacity…the Govs ability to finance is unlimited (if we ignore future impact) …it is what is the desired outcome…commercial property is also overvalued and over leveraged…..it cannot be subsidised as that creates disconnects and disconnects from the real economy are the problem.

                    "the current social housing programme is going to take a while to come online, and is inadequate unless you are counting on a vast load of properties to come on the market at diminished prices. Which while beneficial in terms of stock numbers, will have an ignored human cost to it, that might be avoided if some direct action is take"

                    Yes the social housing will take time and in one respect I think the gov foolish to build when they could buy cheaply existing properties (there was no shortage of houses, only a shortage of affordable housing) But there are positives to building social housing including training, employment and new technology (or systems)

                    "As mentioned, IF investors were included, they would only be able to take the reduced rate option AND be required to pass on the majority of that rate to tenants. Eg. they still get the 30% reduced payments over time to offset the expected loss of capital equity, and rental costs are directly and immediately reduced for tenants."

                    And why would an investor do that?…the incentives are to quit as they are now.

                    • Molly …
                      23 May 2020 at 8:45 pm

                      Social housing opposed to state housing helps to maintain inflated housing prices.

                      Supporting landlords while requiring them to pass on the savings to their tenants, will still allow the market to deflate while allowing the high proportion of tenanted NZers to stay in their current housing if it is still the most appropriate for them.

                      You seem to expect the market which has failed, to crash, and then as it recovers – somehow do what it has failed to do in the past. Our housing situation requires a stronger government intervention to solve. Social housing programmes won't be the solution.

                      "As mentioned, IF investors were included, they would only be able to take the reduced rate option AND be required to pass on the majority of that rate to tenants. Eg. they still get the 30% reduced payments over time to offset the expected loss of capital equity, and rental costs are directly and immediately reduced for tenants."

                      And why would an investor do that?…the incentives are to quit as they are now.

                      Well, aren't all landlords in it for the business of providing housing at a profit and not capital gains? (/sarc) In essence, their profits won't be adversely affected – their income would reduce, but so would their expenses. The return should be equitable with pre-Covid.

                      I'm advocating a bottom-up approach. What do the NZ people need. We need to be housed, fed and supported – then employed. The current social housing plan is not going to cut it, it was ineffective to address the real housing issues before, and it will not deliver now.

                    • pat …
                      23 May 2020 at 8:58 pm

                      "Social housing opposed to state housing helps to maintain inflated housing prices"

                      .Not sure your definition of social housing is the norm…social housing INCLUDES state housing, community and emergency housing.

                      "Supporting landlords while requiring them to pass on the savings to their tenants, will still allow the market to deflate while allowing the high proportion of tenanted NZers to stay in their current housing if it is still the most appropriate for them"

                      Supporting them how?…..and tenants can remain in their current housing (if they so desire) if the landlord changes…the property remains.

                      "You seem to expect the market which has failed, to crash, and then as it recovers – somehow do what it has failed to do in the past. Our housing situation requires a stronger government intervention to solve. Social housing programmes won't be the solution."

                      You continue misunderstand what I am outlining….'the market will do what the market does , and currently it is in a deflationary environment….the state intervention (or not) is crucial to the desired outcome…as it always was, its just that in the recent past the intervention was considered undesired

                  • pat …
                    23 May 2020 at 9:34 pm

                    "The World Bank also says this ratio is "possibly the most important summary measure of housing market performance, indicating not only the degree to which housing is affordable by the population, but also the presence of market distortions".

                    Based on this official work, it seems to have become accepted that a median multiple of 3.0 times or less is a very good marker for housing affordability. Much of the work in support of the 3x standard is based on US research on the US housing market"

                    https://www.interest.co.nz/property/house-price-income-multiples

                    Is that a ratio you wish the government to "support"?…..for by requiring support for investors that's exactly what you will be doing.

  6. observer 6
    22 May 2020 at 9:14 am

    I have little time for JLR but credit where it's due, this is a useful insight into how things are done inside the National caucus:

    https://twitter.com/jamileeross/status/1263570896901386240

    • ianmac 6.1
      22 May 2020 at 9:47 am

      My link didn't work Observer?

      • I Feel Love 6.1.1
        22 May 2020 at 11:42 am

        Basically he says all MPs are liars and it's anyone's guess between "mr unlikable and mr unknowable". He's quite funny.

    • ianmac 6.2
      22 May 2020 at 11:43 am

      Thanks observer. A worthwhile read. Much more credible insight on the "Vote. Far more useful than some of the commentators! Thanks Jamie.

  7. RedLogix 7
    22 May 2020 at 9:17 am

    So much for the Swedish experiment:

    Sweden now has the highest coronavirus death rate in the world per capita over the last week after continuing to shun lockdown.

    The government has insisted that its softer approach to dealing with the pandemic will pay off in the long run as restaurants, bars and businesses remain open.

    But over the last seven days, Sweden had an average of 6.08 deaths per million inhabitants – more than any other country in the world.

    This is in comparison to 5.57 in the UK, 4.28 in Belgium, 4.11 in the US, 2.62 in Spain, 2.29 in Italy, and 2.26 in France.

    Many of these other countries saw far more virus deaths earlier in the pandemic, but managed to bring down the numbers with strict lockdown measures.

    • pat 7.1
      22 May 2020 at 9:28 am

      Sweden currently ranks 8th on deaths per capita @384 per million….behind the likes of Spain, France , UK and Italy…San Marino is the highest @1209

      https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

      Ah…over the last week…lies, damn lies and statistics.

    • I Feel Love 7.2
      22 May 2020 at 10:01 am

      Also something in the Guardian about the lower than expected percentage of infected people with antibodies, the mathematicians are baffled (?????). https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/21/just-7-per-cent-of-stockholm-had-covid-19-antibodies-by-end-of-april-study-sweden-coronavirus

      • Andre 7.2.1
        22 May 2020 at 10:44 am

        There's some kind of mental disconnect going on between an expected 25% antibody rate, or even a 7% antibody rate, and a reported population case rate of 0.3%.

        Evidently they are putting a lot of hope into the asymptomatic infection and transmission rate being orders of magnitude higher than detected case rate. But that hope isn't supported by data from places where extensive testing of contacts is carried out (such as New Zealand), which shows that true asymptomatic cases are a small fraction of the number of symptomatic cases.

        Given that most reports of antibody tests highlight the fact that most tests have a very high false positive rate, the likeliest explanation is that even the 7% at the end of April is a gross overestimate of how many have actually been exposed. Which in turn suggests that the voluntary physical distancing the Swedes have done has successfully flattened the curve, but they are just somewhere near the start of a very long broad peak of the curve.

        • lprent 7.2.1.1
          22 May 2020 at 10:54 am

          Which in turn suggests that the voluntary physical distancing the Swedes have done has successfully flattened the curve, but they are just somewhere near the start of a very long broad peak of the curve.

          That was my reading of it this morning as well. Covid-19 simply isn’t as infectious as originally anticipated, or it doesn’t cause the immune system to generate antibodies unless symptoms are severe or ….

          But as was obvious from the start – this isn’t a standard disease

          • Andre 7.2.1.1.1
            22 May 2020 at 11:21 am

            Covid-19 simply isn’t as infectious as originally anticipated

            My sense is that infection spreading is mainly due to large groups getting close together and making loud noises at each other. Choir practice, bars, weddings, noisy restaurants etc. Those appear to have been the superspreading events. Then once those events stopped, and very basic precautions against spreading started, it took a lot of close personal contact for most new infections.

            It kind of makes a mockery of the idea of an R0 number when most infection spread is due to a few discrete superspreading events, each resulting in a large but random number of transmissions. Rather than the picture implied by an R0 number, which suggests each infection likely passes it on to two or three other people .(or twenty in the case of measles in an unprotected population).

            • I Feel Love 7.2.1.1.1.1
              22 May 2020 at 11:44 am

              Ever been to a resthome lately, they're squished in like sardines, and of course NZs other outbreak was at a school.

            • Nic the NZer 7.2.1.1.1.2
              22 May 2020 at 1:07 pm

              I looked into typical infection models of the kind being used to discuss policy (the SIR form) and was astounded by how unrealistically simplistic they are. While its possible to understand they are modelling a process like viral spread its always going to be questionable if they are making a reasonable forecast, specifically as the outbreak occurs people will and have been naturally socially distance themselves from others (people automatically out less and take more precautions), but the assumption seems to be a static R0 throughout any forecast which doesn't respond to the outbreak.

  8. Ad 8
    22 May 2020 at 9:22 am

    Does anyone know of government reviews going on in response to the Covid-19 outbreak?

    • Anne 8.1
      22 May 2020 at 9:50 am

      I vaguely recall talk about a review into the Covid 19 responses by DHBs after complaints about lack of surgical equipment and PPEs in some parts of the country. I can't remember the actual specifics.

  9. lprent 9
    22 May 2020 at 10:37 am

    That was annoying. Software security update reboot. It found a configuration issue from the operating system update earlier in the week. Set the IP incorrectly.

    Rapid fix while I was in a zoom webinar.

  10. Poission 10
    22 May 2020 at 10:40 am

    One interesting aspect of the lockdown,and spending constraints is that NZ has reduced both its use of credit cards,and paid off over the last 2 months 1.5 billion of interest bearing credit card debt.

    https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/c12

    • RedBaronCV 10.1
      22 May 2020 at 12:28 pm

      It sucks to be visa . Wonder what the impact is on the balance of payments and how much less is going to overseas as profit and fees. I'm assuming the local banks provide the capital circulated but I don't really know how it works in the background.

      Another random thought – so far banks and credit card companies seem to have made up the fraud losses. that happen but with the changing banking enviroment will security become a higher profile activity?

  11. Muttonbird 11
    22 May 2020 at 10:45 am

    I see James' favourite politician, Jair Bolsonaro, is butchering Brazil's Covid 19 response.

    1153 deaths today with 8000+ critical.

  12. pat 12
    22 May 2020 at 11:14 am

    "But first, the latest update records +2.4 mln more people claiming unemployment benefits in the US, taking the total since early March to more than 38 mln. We may be getting used to such large numbers and this latest week is lower than last week, but this still represents a building social disaster, the scale of which vastly exceeds the Great Depression. In 1932, twelve million Americans were unemployed and one out of every four families no longer had an income. In 2020 the social safety net is helping with the income stress in the short term, but the level of real jobless level is also now approaching 25%. US jobless benefits typically last only 26 weeks"

    https://www.interest.co.nz/news/105146/more-huge-us-job-losses-economies-contracting-beijing-clamps-down-hong-kong-china

    Over 38 million unemployed in worlds largest economy…and a virus uncontrolled…difficult to see any upside

    • RedBaronCV 12.1
      22 May 2020 at 12:15 pm

      I don't envy the state governors who seem to be the last stand of sensible politicians in many parts of the US. No money, no food and widespread gun ownership is a recipe for civil unrest. Those billionaire communities maybe don't look so secure anymore and the overseas boltholes are closed

  14. Fireblade 14
    22 May 2020 at 1:13 pm

    Newshub Breaking News:

    Todd's in, Simon's gone.

    • Bruce 14.1
      22 May 2020 at 5:39 pm

      And hes making it pretty clear, his absolute priority is the economy, no matter how many lives it costs.

  15. Fireblade 15
    22 May 2020 at 3:54 pm

    Hoots got the boot?

    National's Chinese Communist Party funding must have been cut now that Simon's gone.

    https://www.twitter.com/matthewhootonnz?lang=en

    • weka 15.1
      22 May 2020 at 8:34 pm

      maybe he's got a new job that's incompatible with his twitter account.

      Or he's arch trolling the left.

  17. roblogic 17
    22 May 2020 at 7:02 pm

    The Herald changing its tune? Pointing out New Zealand's shameful inequality of recent decades.

    Social and racial stresses arose from widely differing interpretations of the Treaty, the article said, which led to 135 years of conflict and grievance until the document was enshrined in law in 1975 and a truth and reconciliation commission formed.

    "Today, the nation has shamefully unequal rates of Māori health, educational and judicial outcomes, and youth suicide statistics are tragically high."

    Because of these disparities, many contemporary local commenters viewed the country's progressive label with scepticism, the article said.

    Many social advances previously occurred because of the nation's values of fairness and equality, but now some of the motivation was to be seen as a world leader.

    "If you look at the right of women to vote, in the 1890s, no one was saying, 'We want to be the first…'," historian Professor Paul Moon told the BBC.

    "The concern was, 'This is an important right because it will enfranchise women or be more representative, more democratic and so on'. "

    But then Granny reverts to form and tries to link 35 years of neoliberal crap to the current Labour led govt.

  18. Corey Humm 18
    22 May 2020 at 7:05 pm

    I feel like hell has frozen over. Firstly my dad has been saying nice things about Winston Peters… And I agree with them (my dad's a labour/alliance kinda guy)

    Then all the older blokes I know who have benefited enormously from neoliberal policies and absolutely hated Labour and adored key and haven't voted Labour since Lange, many of them are praising the PM, talking about nationals lack of compassion and saying they may vote labour or NZ f.

    Obviously not a poll or anything but … It's so weird to hear so many people who traditionally spit bike at me for being a lefty even entertain the idea of Labour. Perhaps covid 19 has changed how a lot of people value things. Time will tell.

    • I Feel Love 18.1
      22 May 2020 at 10:48 pm

      I hope so Corey.

      • Eco Maori 18.1.1
        23 May 2020 at 6:33 pm

        Kia Ora Newshub.

        Paddy I see you won a award. Yes it great that the government took a strong stance against the virus.

        Looks like the young ones are enjoying the night life.

        That's cool A shortage of wool for because of a The people nitting.

        Ka kite Ano.

  19. Eco Maori 19
    23 May 2020 at 6:49 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    That's correct the health of the Kaumatua comes first our traditions can still be revived later on.

    Festpack is postponed till 2024 it looks like a great Pacific people festival. of Arts

    Ka kite Ano.

  21. Eco Maori 21
    24 May 2020 at 6:30 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub

    I think it's a great idea dropping council concent for sheds and sleepouts under 30 Square metres.

    That's good $600 million being put into regional economy's.

    Looks like Kiwis are enjoying the ski fields.

    Conserving water is the best way to go so we stop putting huge pressure on our environment look around the world and learn from there mistakes.

    Ka kite Ano

  22. Eco Maori 22
    24 May 2020 at 6:53 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Some people will be able to build sleepouts to house the whanau with the guidance of a qualified builder.

    Tangata Whenua using the Internet to entertain and teach Te reo Ka pai.

    To much the tangata living off the grid.

    Ka kite Ano

  23. Eco Maori 23
    25 May 2020 at 8:53 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    The government has done a great job in their first term.

    Aotearoa is the place a lot of people want to flight to.

    Fruit juice will be good for you with no sugar or coffee. Sounds like the new drink is great.

    Ka kite Ano

  24. Eco Maori 24
    25 May 2020 at 6:29 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Great that Stuff is going to be owned by its staff.

    The magnetic virus testing is great especially with the technology being open sourced and very cost effective open source is the way of the future.

    Ka kite Ano

  25. Eco Maori 25
    25 May 2020 at 6:54 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    That's great church and tangi can have 100 tangata attending .

    The Papatuanuku has changed a lot in the last 3 years.?????.

    Mana Wahine.

    Ka kite Ano.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago

  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
    The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago

  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • New Zealand condemns Iranian strikes
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have condemned Iran’s shocking and illegal strikes against Israel.    “These attacks are a major challenge to peace and stability in a region already under enormous pressure," Mr Luxon says.    "We are deeply concerned that miscalculation on any side could ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Huge interest in Government’s infrastructure plans
    Hundreds of people in little over a week have turned out in Northland to hear Regional Development Minister Shane Jones speak about plans for boosting the regional economy through infrastructure. About 200 people from the infrastructure and associated sectors attended an event headlined by Mr Jones in Whangarei today. Last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Health Minister thanks outgoing Health New Zealand Chair
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has today thanked outgoing Health New Zealand – Te Whatu Ora Chair Dame Karen Poutasi for her service on the Board.   “Dame Karen tendered her resignation as Chair and as a member of the Board today,” says Dr Reti.  “I have asked her to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Roads of National Significance planning underway
    The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has signalled their proposed delivery approach for the Government’s 15 Roads of National Significance (RoNS), with the release of the State Highway Investment Proposal (SHIP) today, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Navigating an unstable global environment
    New Zealand is renewing its connections with a world facing urgent challenges by pursuing an active, energetic foreign policy, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Our country faces the most unstable global environment in decades,” Mr Peters says at the conclusion of two weeks of engagements in Egypt, Europe and the United States.    “We cannot afford to sit back in splendid ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • NZ welcomes Australian Governor-General
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced the Australian Governor-General, His Excellency General The Honourable David Hurley and his wife Her Excellency Mrs Linda Hurley, will make a State visit to New Zealand from Tuesday 16 April to Thursday 18 April. The visit reciprocates the State visit of former Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Pseudoephedrine back on shelves for Winter
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced that Medsafe has approved 11 cold and flu medicines containing pseudoephedrine. Pharmaceutical suppliers have indicated they may be able to supply the first products in June. “This is much earlier than the original expectation of medicines being available by 2025. The Government recognised ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • NZ and the US: an ever closer partnership
    New Zealand and the United States have recommitted to their strategic partnership in Washington DC today, pledging to work ever more closely together in support of shared values and interests, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “The strategic environment that New Zealand and the United States face is considerably more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Joint US and NZ declaration
    April 11, 2024 Joint Declaration by United States Secretary of State the Honorable Antony J. Blinken and New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs the Right Honourable Winston Peters We met today in Washington, D.C. to recommit to the historic partnership between our two countries and the principles that underpin it—rule ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • NZ and US to undertake further practical Pacific cooperation
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced further New Zealand cooperation with the United States in the Pacific Islands region through $16.4 million in funding for initiatives in digital connectivity and oceans and fisheries research.   “New Zealand can achieve more in the Pacific if we work together more urgently and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Government redress for Te Korowai o Wainuiārua
    The Government is continuing the bipartisan effort to restore its relationship with iwi as the Te Korowai o Wainuiārua Claims Settlement Bill passed its first reading in Parliament today, says Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith. “Historical grievances of Te Korowai o Wainuiārua relate to 19th century warfare, land purchased or taken ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Focus on outstanding minerals permit applications
    New Zealand Petroleum and Minerals is working to resolve almost 150 outstanding minerals permit applications by the end of the financial year, enabling valuable mining activity and signalling to the sector that New Zealand is open for business, Resources Minister Shane Jones says.  “While there are no set timeframes for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Applications open for NZ-Ireland Research Call
    The New Zealand and Irish governments have today announced that applications for the 2024 New Zealand-Ireland Joint Research Call on Agriculture and Climate Change are now open. This is the third research call in the three-year Joint Research Initiative pilot launched in 2022 by the Ministry for Primary Industries and Ireland’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Tenancy rules changes to improve rental market
    The coalition Government has today announced changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to encourage landlords back to the rental property market, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “The previous Government waged a war on landlords. Many landlords told us this caused them to exit the rental market altogether. It caused worse ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Boosting NZ’s trade and agricultural relationship with China
    Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay will visit China next week, to strengthen relationships, support Kiwi exporters and promote New Zealand businesses on the world stage. “China is one of New Zealand’s most significant trade and economic relationships and remains an important destination for New Zealand’s products, accounting for nearly 22 per cent of our good and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Freshwater farm plan systems to be improved
    The coalition Government intends to improve freshwater farm plans so that they are more cost-effective and practical for farmers, Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay have announced. “A fit-for-purpose freshwater farm plan system will enable farmers and growers to find the right solutions for their farm ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • New Fast Track Projects advisory group named
    The coalition Government has today announced the expert advisory group who will provide independent recommendations to Ministers on projects to be included in the Fast Track Approvals Bill, say RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Regional Development Minister Shane Jones. “Our Fast Track Approval process will make it easier and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Pacific and Gaza focus of UN talks
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters says his official talks with the United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres in New York today focused on a shared commitment to partnering with the Pacific Islands region and a common concern about the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza.    “Small states in the Pacific rely on collective ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Government honours Taranaki Maunga deal
    The Government is honouring commitments made to Taranaki iwi with the Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill passing its first reading Parliament today, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “This Bill addresses the commitment the Crown made to the eight iwi of Taranaki to negotiate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Enhanced partnership to reduce agricultural emissions
    The Government and four further companies are together committing an additional $18 million towards AgriZeroNZ to boost New Zealand’s efforts to reduce agricultural emissions. Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says the strength of the New Zealand economy relies on us getting effective and affordable emission reduction solutions for New Zealand. “The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • 110km/h limit proposed for Kāpiti Expressway
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) will begin consultation this month on raising speed limits for the Kāpiti Expressway to 110km/h. “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and this proposal supports that outcome ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • New Zealand Biosecurity Awards – Winners announced
    Two New Zealanders who’ve used their unique skills to help fight the exotic caulerpa seaweed are this year’s Biosecurity Awards Supreme Winners, says Biosecurity Minister Andrew Hoggard. “Strong biosecurity is vital and underpins the whole New Zealand economy and our native flora and fauna. These awards celebrate all those in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Attendance action plan to lift student attendance rates
    The Government is taking action to address the truancy crisis and raise attendance by delivering the attendance action plan, Associate Education Minister David Seymour announced today.   New Zealand attendance rates are low by national and international standards. Regular attendance, defined as being in school over 90 per cent of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • World must act to halt Gaza catastrophe – Peters
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has told the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) in New York today that an immediate ceasefire is needed in Gaza to halt the ongoing humanitarian catastrophe.    “Palestinian civilians continue to bear the brunt of Israel’s military actions,” Mr Peters said in his speech to a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Speech to United Nations General Assembly: 66th plenary meeting, 78th session
    Mr President,   The situation in Gaza is an utter catastrophe.   New Zealand condemns Hamas for its heinous terrorist attacks on 7 October and since, including its barbaric violations of women and children. All of us here must demand that Hamas release all remaining hostages immediately.   At the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Government woolshed roadshow kicks off
    Today the Government Agriculture Ministers started their national woolshed roadshow, kicking off in the Wairarapa. Agriculture Minister Todd McClay said it has been a tough time for farmers over the past few years. The sector has faced high domestic inflation rates, high interest rates, adverse weather events, and increasing farm ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • PM heads to Singapore, Thailand, and Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon will travel to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines this week (April 14-20), along with a senior business delegation, signalling the Government’s commitment to deepen New Zealand’s international engagement, especially our relationships in South East Asia. “South East Asia is a region that is more crucial than ever to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Prime Minister launches Government Targets
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced further steps to get New Zealand back on track, launching nine ambitious Government Targets to help improve the lives of New Zealanders. “Our Government has a plan that is focused on three key promises we made to New Zealanders – to rebuild the economy, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Natural hydrogen resource should be free of Treaty claims entanglement
    Natural hydrogen could be a game-changing new source of energy for New Zealand but it is essential it is treated as a critical development that benefits all New Zealanders, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones is seeking to give regulatory certainty for those keen to develop natural, or geological, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Government responds to unsustainable net migration
    ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • New Zealand on stage at global Space Symposium
    Space Minister Judith Collins will speak at the Space Symposium in the United States next week, promoting New Zealand’s rapidly growing place in the sector as we work to rebuild the economy. “As one of the largest global space events, attended by more than 10,000 business and government representatives from ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-04-16T16:52:40+00:00