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Open Mike 22/07/2018

Written By: - Date published: 5:54 am, July 22nd, 2018 - 171 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

171 comments on “Open Mike 22/07/2018 ”

  1. Noam Chomsky on Trump – a salutary listen for a Sunday morning! 24 minutes. Particularly the first minutes about the orange powder-puff.

    The Republican Party the most dangerous organisation on earth!!!

    • Bill 1.1

      Google search “Pied Piper Democracts”.

      “Everything” is behind liberalism’s (arguably) fascist drift. In politics, you don’t create a space unless you intend to fill it. Pushing the Republicans to supposedly untenable positions, surely means the “lesser evil” intends to occupy the space they’ve cleared out – which by the traditional way of viewing politics, is ever further to the “right”.

      A cursory glance at the treatment meted out to the likes of Sanders, Corbyn or Melenchon shows various centres of power certainly don’t favour striking off in a social democratic direction.

      And (in line with the “pied piper” strategy) the amount of oxygen and arm waving around the Le Penns and Farages of the world, that then scares the horses back to the status quo and its inexorable drift….

      Footnote. Macron – the poster boy of liberalism – two of his body guards (Alexandre Benalla and Vincent Crase) disguised themselves as cops, and Benalla was filmed beating the crap out of protesters on May Day.

      Imagine the furore if that had been Le Penn’s body guards? And yet, here we are, nearly two months later, and all we have is disapproving “tsks” that the guys retained their employment.

  2. marty mars 2

    Why do we allow these disgraced wankers to come here and buy our country? – tell him to piss off I say – buy the land back – give it to Iwi and make the edges and tracks publicly accessible.

    “Taxpayers could be forced to pay millions of dollars in compensation to disgraced TV host Matt Lauer to guarantee public access to his high country station.”


    • dV 2.1

      The land is still owned by NZ, he has the bought the lease,
      BUT obviously the principle of access is not a problem, its ONLY the money.

      AND why not cancel his visa as he is an undesirable.

      • James 2.1.1

        From what I have seen allegations have been made but none proven legally. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

      • Bearded Git 2.1.2

        The lease will come up for renewal some time in the future…at this point the access available to the public can be improved by the government…lets hope the Greens are in government when the lease comes up.

        Meanwhile a little birdy tells me Peter Thiel is about to start building his mansion…since the Nats changed the RMA this can no longer be publicly notified so doubtless his unsightly development will be waved through in the Outstanding Natural Landscape his property is situated within by the pro-rich pro-development Queenstown Lakes District Council.

    • gsays 2.2

      I suppose he wasn’t known to be disgraced when he made the purchase.

      What I am curious about is what does it take to fail the good character test?
      From the article: November last year, the OIO is concerned about his character after being fired for alleged sexual misconduct and starts an inquiry.
      June this year OIO is happy and he ‘passes the test’.

      • OnceWasTim 2.2.1

        OIO probably should have been added to yesterday’s Open Mike 2.2 and below.

        I can hear the “buzz” now from ‘officials’ along the lines “we follow international best practice”; and “we make comprehensive checks with our international partners going forward”; and “good faith” thrown in a few times, and “we’re satisfied we’ve abided by our legal obligations and in compliance with the points system’ etc etc etc rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb

        money money money, foreign investment, what’s wrong with it, they can’t take the land with them (/sarc)

        Interesting RNZ’s Insight this morning http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/insight/audio/2018654295/insight-money-laundering-in-nz
        which kind of scratched the surface re the kinds of rackets going on

          • OnceWasTim

            Oh, and ComCom that allowed a duopolistic supermarket supply chain that disadvantages the little players (such as the dairy producer also on RNZ Sunday this morning), or NZTA or or or.
            Again, let’s hope Skippy’s wish for reform goes a little deeper than window dressing.
            On the positive side, there are a few ministers who seem to be aware that they’ve been severely let down by various ‘deficiencies’ in our current ps model.

            (you should hear what I really think though – and not just me)

    • SaveNZ 2.3

      Why did they not put in full access when the granted the lease? Again very bad advice and paper work by the NZ government! Too much sensitive land is being sold and leased without enough provision for public access, it is even worse if it is public land in the first place!

      Although with public access there should be responsibilities for those using it, to behave reasonably and enforcement options strict, (no litter, no walking off paths, no noise and partying, fire risks respected, dogs under control, clear ideas on motorised use etc) and there should be instant penalties for those that can’t respect these public paths.

      Overseas public access is completely normal and people behave reasonably.

      In NZ there are problems of bad behaviour, hooning, dangerous and noisy ATV use with non licensed and registered vehicles destroying the sand dunes around Auckland and making forests dangerous to walk in with crazy ATV use and so forth. As Kiwis get more obese their ideas of public access are becoming motorised actually stopping people from walking with the amount of danger from this. People making fires and driving around drunk. Kauri forests and Kauri die back disease being spread. This is what frightens people about public access.

      Public access needs to be protected for everyone that includes safety and enforcement of those who abuse the public access. It is normal overseas for people to enjoy full public access, in NZ there needs to be a bit more thought about why with such small population we seem to not be able to get this right.

      Hopefully in remote areas people know how to behave, sadly around urban public areas many people don’t and the enforcement needs to be tightened as well as more access allowed.

    • Graeme 2.4

      Land access to the Hunter has always been severely restricted by the lessees going back a long way. The previous lessee (who’s still there as Lauer’s manager) was particuarly hard nosed about this. So there’s really been no change with the new ownership.

      How it’s going to pan out going forward as the owner discovers that owning the lease over Hunter Valley Station becomes a cashflow negative undertaking, and tenure review may not work out on that lease.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 2.5

      Taxpayers aren’t “forced” to do anything. Change the law and tell him to fuck off.

  3. gsays 3

    I had a wee epiphany yesterday.
    Listening to Venus Envy, a podcast from spinoff and RNZ.
    Talking about identity and multi cultural feminism intersectionality in the workplace.

    I must admit, in the past, to trying to understand and get my head around this and putting it in the too hard basket.

    What emerged from the conversation was that it is the practice of manaakitanga.

    “To how you bring people together, how you look after them inside a space, how you ensure that their mana, all peoples mana, is taken care of and looked after. Manaaki – to give mana to all sections. By the end of that a lot of people were a lot more comfortable with the term ‘Manaakitanga’, rather than intersectionalising their practice inside the workspace.”

    This really helped, ensuring someone’s mana is looked after seems a lot easier.


  4. Carolyn_Nth 5

    human Rights Conference organisers denied visas to NZ. Thank goodness we have the Freeze peach Coalition to raise $90,000 to challenge these decisions!


    • Bill 5.1

      Hearing you, but thinking a campaign against NZ Immigration’s apparent racism would be more in order. And given that, expect “nuffin happenin”. 🙁

      From the link.

      A woman who campaigns for sex education in Uganda was denied entry because Immigration NZ deemed her at risk of overstaying, and a man who is part of a group starting schools in Uganda is still waiting to find out if he will be granted entry, months after applying. The idea the members would overstay here, when they were heavily invested in projects overseas was laughable, Passmore said.

      Nigerian Leo Igwe​ just finished a PhD in Germany, and arrived in the country this week. He said he was not given a reason his visa was declined initially, but after doing extensive international travel it was a surprise, and he believes it is likely because he holds a passport from a poor country.

    • SaveNZ 5.2

      Typical, human rights activists seem more ‘dangerous’ to immigration than the abusers of them, who are waived through.

  5. ianmac 6

    Seems odd to me that Bridges has opposed the setting up of a Review system for doubtful court cases. He concedes that there are miscarriages of justice but is against a system for investigation. Will this help him win friends?

    • dV 6.1

      AND he has discovered the Ellis case from ChCh.
      Shame he didn’t find it in the 9 years of Nat power.

      • SaveNZ 6.1.1

        Bridges trying to be relevant, but just hot air behind it, zero substance. Also sounds like the National party and ACT has repeatedly halted the Nepata brother’s requests for defence compensation. Then Pike River, nothing for the Ellis case either over their decade of rule… the National party record is truely despicable.

    • Graeme 6.2

      Maybe he’s a little concerned some of the work he did in his previous occupation might come under scrutiny.

      I know of a case he prosecuted that has many of the elements of the Ellis case.

      • gsays 6.2.1

        “I know of a case he prosecuted that has many of the elements of the Ellis case.”
        Can you give another clue please.

        By elements of the Ellis case I am keen to know what you mean.

        Evidence obtained by leading questioning by ‘experts’- a discredited method from the ’80s?
        Selective quoting of children?
        The senior investigating officer having ‘relationships’ with the mother of the main witness?
        An underworked, over excited police ‘child sex ring’ investigation unit, looking for its first scalp?

        Do share.

        • Graeme

          You could remove “The senior investigating officer having ‘relationships’ with the mother of the main witness?” The other aspects appear to be common.

          The prosecutor’s personal beliefs may have clouded objectivity as well.

          I don’t want to say too much here, the guy was convicted, served society’s sanction and now is trying to get on with some sort of life. I’ve only heard that side of it, but knowing both the accuser and convicted I am very sceptical.

          The Ellis case would make an interesting interview topic for Mr Bridges, and leading into his time as a prosecutor.

          • Gabby

            Does Ministerial connivance fit into the picture as well?

          • gsays

            Thanks Graeme for your response.
            I’d be curious as to how much Mr Bridges would reveal and how clearly he would state his position or beliefs.

  6. SaveNZ 7

    More inequality in NZ
    …now you need $60k for ‘experts’ to have your say in court under the new RMA rules trickled in by the Natz to stack the decks to keep the rich getting richer and creating an expensive system to have your say (only a micro amount of ‘issues’ are allowed to be considered all stacked towards industry and excess) .


    • SaveNZ 7.1

      Considering you can go to most tribunals in NZ like disputes tribunal for under $100 and get a ruling, interesting when it comes to land, taking from communities and plundering of our resources and pushing risks onto others, it’s now taking $60,000+ to have your say…. which is very revealing of where our power interest lie.

      We are no longer an equal country but one that is wink wink, open for exploitation to the right sorts…and our legal system has been changed to allow for this.

      • Rosemary McDonald 7.1.1

        “… interesting when it comes to land, taking from communities and plundering of our resources and pushing risks onto others, it’s now taking $60,000+ to have your say…. ”


        The local activists who stepped up and spoke at the consent hearings in Kaitaia cost bugger all. The hard ground work was done by a few staunch locals who found and dug up their greatest assets. Long term locals with generations of living with the Aquifer. Locals with degrees and engineering experience. Locals who were wise and knowledgeable and one outstanding woman who had taken her legal qualifications around the world.

        The $$$ spent by the opposition was from DOC, who sent in a Team to speak on behalf of the vulnerable Kaimaumau wetlands.

        Despite presenting a staunch opposition at the hearings (which were heavily weighted in favour of the applicants, with some seriously dubious shit going on) the consents were granted…https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/359123/suck-it-and-see-avo-water-consents-worry-conservationists

        And after a pause for breath….DOC, bless them, are taking the bastards to the Environment Court.


        Those folk rightfully objecting to the Super Chook Farm need to take a breath or two before spending hard won $$$ on ‘experts’. They should go have a chat with others who have run interference on such plans without going into hock. NZ environmental activist history is peppered with cautionary tales of groups that have formed to fight this kind of shit who have ended up in financial crap because they have tried to fight the moneyed enemy with extremely limited resources.

        I’ll be watching closely for when the hearing is….they need to make sure supporters know. So we can plan to be there.

    • Ed 7.2

      How convenient for corporate interests.
      1.3 million chickens in concentration camp conditions.
      And Tegels profit from torture, misery and environmental degradation.
      The dice are stacked folks.

      • Yes and they bought out Inghams.

        • Ed

          So the torture and killing of the vast majority of chickens in NZ, the degradation of our environment, the dehumanising of some of our workers all occurs to make a profit for overseas owners.

          It leaves you speechless.
          We are owned.
          And far too many New Zealanders are ignorant, apathetic and too self absorbed.

  7. SaveNZ 8

    Ed, stinking out an entire community including Marae, having incinerators burning waste daily, needing copious amounts of water, clogging up and making the ratepayers pay to repair the roads between Dargarville and West Auckland as well as add to the Auckland congestion and increase risks like bird flu with intensive farming like we have never seen before in NZ , while destroying the tourist opportunities of a town so that a Chinese firm can profit, is all in a days work for our RMA, free “rich” market approach and their champions the ‘environmental’ lawyers NZ resource asset stripping.

    • Ed 8.1

      I never knew that Tegel was owned by China.

      “Tegel Foods Limited is a poultry company based in New Zealand. It employs approximately 1,700 people at locations across New Zealand. Pacific Equity Partners acquired the company from Heinz in 2005, and sold it to Affinity Equity Partners in 2011.

      Affinity Equity Partners is one of the largest dedicated Asian private equity firms and focuses on leveraged buyout and growth capital transactions.

      Affinity operates as a Pan-Asian firm focusing on investment opportunities in Korea, Australia and New Zealand, Greater China and Southeast Asia.

      The firm is led by Kok-Yew Tang (Founding Chairman and Managing Partner), Young-Taeg Park (Chairman and Managing Partner) and Chul-Joo Lee (Managing Partner). It has over 60 employees with offices in Hong Kong, Singapore, Seoul, South Korea, Sydney, Australia, Jakarta, Indonesia and Beijing, China“

      Now I do.

      Is anything in New Zealand still owned by New Zealand companies or New Zealanders?

  8. Sacha 9

    The smartest parts of the NZ economy have been strangled over recent years, says Global Innovation Index: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12091676

    For example, the number of locally generated patents per billion dollars of GDP fell to 6.1 – it was 13.1 in the 2012 survey.

    Cultural and creative services exports have slipped from 0.5 per cent of total trade to just 0.3 per cent.

    High-tech exports as a percentage of total trade have fallen from 2 per cent to 1.4 per cent.

    The growth rate of GDP per knowledge and technology sector worker has slipped from 1.6 per cent to -0.6 per cent.

    We’re going backwards on almost every measure.

    • SaveNZ 9.1

      @Sacha, interesting stats. We seem to have been going towards a scary path under National hopefully the rot starts being reversed…

      • Sacha 9.1.1

        Can’t afford not to improve or we will just be a low-wage economy owned from overseas.

  9. Ed 10

    The Herald sinks to another new low, publishing this ignorant. Ill-informed piece of war mongering. The level of propaganda emanating from western media atm is McCarthyesque.
    The Herald’s owners and editors should enlist for service in Lithuania as they are so keen for World War 3.


    • joe90 10.1

      Invaded by Russia in 1918, again in 1940, and annexed in 1944 to endure Stalin’s reign of terror as tens of thousands were deported to the far east to make way for ethnic Russians.

      So yeah, 50 years worth of oppressive Soviet rule gives Lithuanians a fucking good reason to be terrified by Putin’s posturing.

      • weston 10.1.1

        Dictators come and go and stalins brutality is well documented but its worth remembering it was that same brutality and that same dictators willingness to sacrifice millions of his countrymans lives that led to the eventual defeat of nazism in europe .What has that got to do with putin ?

        • joe90

          A falling out between thieves [Molotov–Ribbentrop/Unternehmen Barbarossa] doesn’t change the fact that Putin believes he’s destined to make Russia great again by reunifying the Soviet Union.

          Lithuanians believe him, and so do I.

          • Ed

            You should join Stuart and enlist. Then grab your tin hat and race to the Suwalki Gap, where John Roughan and the rest of the Herald warmongers are scrambling to head off the Russian beast.

            Or you could just stop talking utter crap.


            • joe90

              Oh look, wee Eddies a cowardly appeaser of an imperialist thug.

              • Ed

                I never supported the imperialist thuggery of the US in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Yemen, Laos, Chile,…….
                Did you?

                • McFlock

                  so you’re an inconsistent cowardly appeaser of an imperialist thug…

                  • Ed

                    Sadly for you name calling, no.
                    Unlike you though, I support attempts for detente and lowering of tensions between nations.
                    Jaw jaw beats war war.
                    If the 2 countries with the biggest stockpiles of nuclear weapons sit down to talk , what is wrong with that.
                    Russia is not about to invade Europe. Get real.
                    And be honest about NATO.
                    It is the expansionist side. The west promised it would not move NATO east in the 1980s .
                    It lied.

                    Why are you so keen for war?
                    Are you mad?

                    • Morrissey

                      Ed, just ignore him. Before you know it, he’ll be calling you an anti-Semite.

                    • Ed

                      Some reading for him.

                      How the Bill Clinton administration successfully meddled in Russia’s 1996 election, elevating Boris Yeltsin to the presidency.
                      Irony: Yeltsin would later appoint a successor – a then little known former KGB agent by the name of Vladimir Putin.

                      In 1996, not only did the Clinton team influence Russia’s election to Boris Yeltsin (who collapsed their economy and made the life expectancy go down by 5 years), they bragged about it in Time Magazine. “


                    • McFlock

                      Russia has no further territorial demands in Europe? Good to know.

                      Edit: ed, the point isn’t that the US is wonderful and Russia is bad. The point is that Russia is as bad as the US, and maybe even quite a bit worse..

              • Gabby

                Shootin’ all the bad guys, one, two, three, four.

                • Ed

                  Too many Rambo films when young , I fear.

                  • Morrissey

                    As for the Kiwi Rambo, spreading death and destruction in Afghanistan….


                    • Ed

                      Yes until Jon Stephenson investigated, we were given a John Wayne version of our involvement in another people’s country.

                    • Morrissey

                      Actually the government—-first Clark’s administration and then Key’s—-pretended we were over there “helping the Afghan people to rebuild.”

                      John Wayne killing Native Americans is in fact pretty much like it was, and is.

                      By the way, did you hear Paula Penfold on Mora’s show a few weeks ago calling out the retiring head of the “Defence” force? She reminded listeners of how he had consistently refused to answer questions about reports of New Zealand troops committing war crimes in Afghanistan. She called him a “coward”. To my knowledge, he still hasn’t answered the allegations.

                    • Ed

                      Penfold is another with courage.
                      I did hear that – but can’t temember how Mora coped.

            • Stuart Munro

              I haven’t enlisted Ed.

              That’s just another facet of your puerile fantasy.

      • Ed 10.1.2

        Swearing really adds to the strength of your argument.

        • joe90

          Anytime there’s mention of resisting the imperialist thug, Putin, wee Eddies loses his head, runs around squealing war! war!.

          • marty mars

            Yep this – ‘go to the front’ really shows the low calibre of the man. He’s done fuck all yet he’ll encourage people to war and death. Anti hero.

          • Ed

            Most of the world sees the US as the imperialist thug.
            You are in the minority that regards Russia as a clear and present threat.
            Does calling me ‘wee’ add strength to your argument?
            You seem a very angry person joe.
            Give peace a chance.
            There is no Planet B.

            • marty mars

              Give peace a chance while encouraging people to go and kill and die in war is sorta creepily sick mate – you should reread some of 5the he heinous encouragement to war that you are doing – pull your head out your arse ed.

          • mauī

            Resistance against Putin? What’s he done this time? Apart from solving the west’s terrorism problem in Syria.

    • Stuart Munro 10.2

      You need to refresh your understanding of McCarthy Ed – try this if books don’t appeal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Night,_and_Good_Luck McCarthy was domestic policy hounding moderates while ostensibly hunting down sympathisers like the Rosenbergs.

      Resurgent Russian militarism is a problem for lots of countries. But they won’t lie down and let it happen again.

      • Ed 10.2.1

        It’s Stuart, posting from the Donbass.
        How’s your tin hat?

        • Stuart Munro

          Geez Ed – you backward fuck.

          Inform yourself on these issues – you’re an embarrassment.

          • mauī

            Ed follows independent and decent journalists/commentators. You follow the corporate propamediaz.

            • Ed

              I provide my sources transparently.
              To call Pilger, Chomsky, Greenwald, Fisk, Cockburn, Bartlett and Bealey uninformed is quite a statement by you Stuart.
              What are your sources?

              And again swearing doesn’t strengthen your argument.
              You seem very angry.

              Give peace a chance.
              In your own world.
              And the whole world.

              • marty mars

                Tell him to go to war why dont you eh ed. Go on warmonger send another body to the front line to kill and die.

                • Ed

                  I’m not telling them. They just seem so keen for war that these armchair warriors should back up theirs views rather than forcing others to die for their Russophobia.

                  • marty mars

                    You are inciting killing – SHAME SHAME SHAME

                    • Ed

                      I’m not actually.
                      I want Russia and the US to be at peace.

                    • marty mars

                      I can’t be bothered cutting and pasting all of your incitements – they are many and they are obvious.

                    • joe90

                      I want Russia and the US to be at peace.

                      They’re at war?

                      detentedeɪˈtɑːnt/nounnoun: detente; plural noun: detentes; noun: détente; plural noun: détentes

                      1. the easing of hostility or strained relations, especially between countries
            • Stuart Munro

              Ed follows third rate propagandists with no journalistic standards whatsoever. And he follows them inconsistently.

              • Ed


                Third rate propagandists?

                • Stuart Munro

                  Sometimes, yes.

                  I know you can barely read, but journalists produce a lot of material. Some of it is professional, it goes to multiple and original sources and takes care to uncover the position of local people.

                  And some doesn’t.

                  But you argue from authority – as if the journalist is an authority in their own right, rather than according to how assiduously they make sure that they have the real facts.

                  You might want to consider how it is with such a list of luminaries supposedly informing you, you consistently manage to be completely wrong on everything pertaining to Russia and Syria.

                  So that you – a self-styled progressive, have become a vociferous apologist for the murdering and invading Putin regime.

        • Bewildered

          Love it Ed quoting Tin hats, the world is crazy

      • Morrissey 10.2.2

        Resurgent Russian militarism is a problem for lots of countries.

        And what about the militarism of the United States, Britain, France, Saudi Arabia, the U.A.E., and Israel? And what about the Al Qaeda-linked forces they support in Syria?

        • Ed

          A question joe90 and Stuart ignore.
          For some reason the only places in the world to suffer imperialist advances are the Nations on Russia’s borders…..

          I don’t understand their world view. Do you?

          • Stuart Munro

            Yeah You’re right – Chechenya, Georgia, the Ukraine – bordering Russia is a really dangerous place to be. Because of Russia, though of course the extremity of your biases won’t let you see that.

            Russian murder is good, US murder is bad – politics according to Ed.

            Six year old stuff.

            • mauī

              Extremity of your biases.. on the other hand I don’t think you’re biased at all Stuart.. though somehow I doubt it.

              • Stuart Munro

                On the day that Ed begins to recognize ANY flaw whatsoever in his totalitarian crush I might entertain such critiques.

                But he never has and probably never will.

                Which is why I correct him with such frequency.

        • Stuart Munro

          Although that’s a problem too, Russian militarism doesn’t make it go away.

          • Morrissey

            “Although that’s a problem too”.


            You seem to be implying that U.S. militarism is comparable to Russia’s. It’s far, far more widespread, and far more lethal. The U.S. is directly responsible for massive destruction in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Palestine and much of the African continent.

            Russia’s aggression is, by comparison, negligible.

            Just compare each country’s “defence” spending.

            • Stuart Munro

              Right – so two wrongs eh?

              You can ignore Putin’s murders because of America’s.

              Actually both are a concern.

              • Morrissey

                Not at all. That’s not what I said and not what I implied. What I did point out—and I’m sure you already knew it anyway—was that if Russia is bad, and I acknowledge that it is bad, then the United States and its vassals like the U.K. are off the scale.

                • Ed

                  And you won’t ever hear an admission of that from Stuart.
                  Humans rights and independence for the Ukrainians, the Latvians, the Poles, the Georgians…
                  Yemenis, Palestinians, Iraqis, Chileans……not so much.

                  • Stuart Munro

                    Right back at you Putinella.

                    It’s fine for Putin to murder these people – Ed says so.

                    Ed is like a third rate Lord Haw Haw – a tireless promoter of murderous totalitarian dictators.

                    And with fuckwits like him contaminating the discourse, no discussion will ever get anywhere.

                    The Rohingya will never get a kindly word on the Standard because Ed will use that space to promote his murderous buddy Putin.

                    You’re a disgrace, Ed.

                    • Ed

                      Calm down.
                      Did you not read my last comment.
                      I agree with Morrissey on this statement.

                      “What I did point out—and I’m sure you already knew it anyway—was that if Russia is bad, and I acknowledge that it is bad, then the United States and its vassals like the U.K. are off the scale.”

                      So I guess what we would like to see a more balanced critique by you on joe. You seem to see the world In a simple goody/ baddy framing, whereas – even in the Ukraine, Lithuania etc its a lot more complex than that.
                      Crimea voted to rejoin Russia.
                      The present Ukrainian government was established by an anti democratic coup, aided by fascists.
                      NATO, not Russia, has expanded since the Reagan Gorbachev agreements.
                      We were lied to abt it chemical weapons in Syria by our western governments.
                      We were lied to about Salisbury.
                      It’s not that simple Stuart.
                      We are not living in a Bruce Willis film.

                • Stuart Munro

                  If that were true we could be forgiven for misunderstanding you.

                  That’s exactly what Ed is saying, and you’re endorsing him.

                  • Ed

                    I am saying the same as Morrissey, whose views I respect.

                    • Stuart Munro


                      You’re just grasping at the only friendly straw you can find.

                      You need to straighten up, my little totalitarian fellow-traveler – you’re not fooling anyone.

                  • Ed

                    Most people on this thread are for peace with Russia.

                    • mauī

                      Absolutely correct, and we don’t work for the Tzar either.

                    • Ed

                      You can support Trump talking with Putin and not be a sopportercof either.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      “You can support Trump talking with Putin and not be a sopportercof either.”

                      It’s certainly possible.

                      But you have established time and again that you are nothing more a lickspittle lackey of Putin without an independent thought in your head.

                      I’m for peace with Russia Ed – but that doesn’t license them to murder Chechens, Georgians, Ukranians, journalists, political opponents or former spys. Or Syrians come to that.

                      Your conspicuous silence on those issues looks a lot like guilt.

              • In Vino

                Yet it seems to me that you and others seem to bleat only about one side, not both.

                • Stuart Munro

                  That would be because I’m not posting pro-US comments, I’m merely trying to contain Ed’s most egregious failures.

                  • One Two

                    You’re a self avowed ‘russophobe’, Stuart..
                    You and J90 both…

                    Focus on containing your own egregious failures, eh…

                    • Ed

                      Thanks for the support.
                      I have copped a lot abuse for simply pointing out the Herald’s propaganda this morning !

                    • Stuart Munro

                      How about you lift your game One Two – instead of boosting Ed’s dysfunction.

                      I come here for progressive views and by golly Putin is not the revolution I’m looking for.

                      Any more than Stalin was. But you could excuse the Old Reds to some degree – they didn’t know what they were dealing with.

                      We do. There is no excuse.

            • Ed


  10. Ed 12

    “Democratic Institutions?” – 10 Lessons from history that will destroy your trust in the CIA”


  11. joe90 13

    So, long time US allies Canada, Germany, and Japan’s aluminum and steel is lumbered with tariffs because national security threat, but Russia’s off the hook because…..oh, oligarch mates.

    You couldn’t make this shit up.

    SAO PAULO (Reuters) – The U.S. Treasury is open to removing Russian aluminum producer Rusal from a U.S. sanctions list, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on Friday, adding the objective was “not to put Rusal out of business.”


    • Morrissey 13.1

      The U.S. had no right to place sanctions on Russia in the first place.

      • Stuart Munro 13.1.1

        Russian soldiers have no business being in the Ukraine either.

        • Morrissey

          They have more right to be there than the U.S. and U.K. have to be in Iraq or Afghanistan or Yemen.

          Russia should be sanctioned straight after the U.S. and U.K. are sanctioned.

          • Stuart Munro

            I don’t think the Ukrainians would agree.

            And it’s for the Ukrainians to decide.

            • Ed

              West Ukraine or East Ukraine.
              They are quite different ethnically.
              Most of the country voted for the government which was ousted by an anti democratic coup, supported by the CIA and fascist groups in west Ukraine.

              You see, it’s complicated Stuart….

              • McFlock

                Only if you need to reconcile the contradictory ramblings if RT.

                Otherwise, it’s pretty simple: Russia sent Russian troops into part of the Ukraine.

                  • McFlock

                    awww you’re sweet.

                    Thanks. The map is clearly labelled “ukraine”. where did Russia send it’s troops?

                    • Ed

                      Here is some more help.

                      “Yanukovych was elected President in 2010, defeating Yulia Tymoshenko. The election was judged free and fair by international observers.”


                      Seamus Milne in 2014.

                      “The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all

                      The threat of war in Ukraine is growing. As the unelected government in Kiev declares itself unable to control the rebellion in the country’s east, John Kerry brands Russia a rogue state. The US and the European Union step up sanctions against the Kremlin, accusing it of destabilising Ukraine. The White House is reported to be set on a new cold war policy with the aim of turning Russia into a “pariah state”.

                      That might be more explicable if what is going on in eastern Ukraine now were not the mirror image of what took place in Kiev a couple of months ago. Then, it was armed protesters in Maidan Square seizing government buildings and demanding a change of government and constitution. US and European leaders championed the “masked militants” and denounced the elected government for its crackdown, just as they now back the unelected government’s use of force against rebels occupying police stations and town halls in cities such as Slavyansk and Donetsk.


                      It’s not simple.
                      It’s complex.

                    • McFlock

                      So that map you supplied that was labelled “Ukraine”. Were Russian troops sent there?

                      Is that a map of part of Europe?

              • Stuart Munro

                And you are not sufficiently informed to unravel that complexity Ed.

                And neither is Putin, which is why he tried to unravel it with tanks.

                By all means get into the complexities – astound us with something not pasted from RT for a change.

                • Ed

                  Have you read Patrick Cockburn on these matters?
                  I have.

                  Have you read John Pilger on these matters?
                  I have.

                  Have you read Robert Fisk on these matters?
                  I have.

                  Have you read Glenn Greenwald on these matters?
                  I have.

                  Have you read Eva Bartlett on these matters?
                  I have.

                  Have you read Craig Murray on these matters?
                  I have.

                  Have you read l Vanessa Beeley on these matters?
                  I have.

                  • Morrissey

                    Ed, you’re in an environment now where reading and understanding something is a liability. This site is more and more being dominated by the sorts of people who would normally have only posted on Whaleoil or Kiwiblog, or spent their time ringing up Leighton Smith to agree with him.

                    • Ed

                      I’m realising this.
                      Stuart Munro is an out and out bully boy.
                      He doesn’t debate, doesn’t actually read my links: he just attacks like a pit bull with lies about me.
                      I shall give up replying to him.
                      There is no point.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      Good – on your bike you vile apologist for totalitarian dictators.

                    • Ed

                      This excellent article I recommend to you Morrissey,
                      It is by Craig Murray. He is an author, broadcaster and human rights activist. He was British Ambassador to Uzbekistan from August 2002 to October 2004 and Rector of the University of Dundee from 2007 to 2010.


                  • Stuart Munro

                    Have you talked to real Ukranians Ed?

                    Have you read anyone outside your RT circle-jerk?

                    Because you don’t come across as being well-informed so much as a blatantly ignorant and partisan supporter of Putin’s military ambitions.

      • Macro 13.1.2

        And Russia had no place meddling in US elections.
        And yes there is plenty of evidence.

        • Morrissey

          No there’s not. You can’t supply us with it, any more than the hapless and doomed Democratic Party “leaders” can.

          • mauī

            lol we’ve got another one who’s been watching too much Rachel Maddow and CNN.

            • Morrissey

              The embarrassingly bad Rachel Maddow is, sorry to say, a conspiracy theorist.

            • marty mars

              Everyone knows it even your man t.rump. Didn’t you get the memo?

              • Morrissey

                My man is Trump, is it? When did that happen?

                Oh, I SEE now! If you point out the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the Democrats and their media megaphones like Rachel Maddow, that makes you a Trump supporter.

                Got it.

                • marty mars

                  Check out who i replyed to fuckwit and apologise again.

                • Ed

                  Why are joe90, Munro and mars so anti Russia?
                  Why are they so angry?
                  And why are they make things up up what we say.

                  And to prove my point, I receive this hate speeech from Munro.
                  “Good – on your bike you vile apologist for totalitarian dictators.”

                  How does one respond without being banned?

                  • McFlock

                    Change your behaviour and apply your cynicism to Russia as well as the west. That might help.

                  • Stuart Munro

                    “How does one respond”

                    Learn, you ignorant muppet.

                    Learn from the people occupied by the last Russian empire.

                    • Ed

                      I was asking Morrissey.
                      I tend not to listen or learn from people who routinely abuse people for a differing point of view.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      So you don’t listen to yourself.

                      You abuse me all the time.

                      Lay off the Putin boosting. This is not a Putin fan site.

                      Learn to make real arguments and learn a bit of 20th century history. Your position is no better than that of neo-Nazis.

                  • mauī

                    Yes another ghastly comment from Munro.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      Another piece of empty Ed echoing from Maui.

                      Got anything intelligent to say?

                      I guess not.

                    • Ed

                      Maui, how would you respond to the litany of abuse Munro throws at me? Quite a list today. The most recent being a neoNazi.

                      I wish to avoid being banned and I want to keep sharing well written articles by journalists I respect.

                    • mauī

                      Sorry, I don’t feel like reliving the cold war right now.

                    • mauī

                      Not sure Ed, it has turned into quite a harsh winter with all this rhetoric flying around. Maybe just hunker down and wait them out.

                    • Ed

                      Ok. Thank you for your usual kind words and wisdom.
                      You are a breath of fresh air and enlightenment on this site.

                  • Stuart Munro

                    “Why are they so angry?”

                    Half a million murdered Chechens Ed. Can you tell me how many Georgians?

                    I’ll bet you don’t care enough to find out.

                    Because all your pretensions to progressive values are empty.

          • Ed

            What’s wrong with all these people?
            Surely Iraq in 2003 made them start to look at what their governments, ‘intelligence’ agencies and media told them with a touch of critical thinking and skepticism.

        • Ed

          You saw the link to US meddling in Ruusia’s elections in the 1990s.
          Bill was so proud he bragged about it.
          And of course US interference in other countries ‘ democratic processes – we ignore all that, don’t we.

          And we beat the war drums……

          Russia bad.
          Putin bad.
          Russia bad.
          Putin bad.
          Russia bad.
          Putin bad……..

    • Ed 13.2

      The three times daily beat of the Cold War drum……..

  12. Andre 14

    Michelle Wolf’s recruitment video for ICE.

  13. joe90 15

    Soros funds Soros.

    Who’s funding Bannon?

    LONDON—Steve Bannon plans to go toe-to-toe with George Soros and spark a right-wing revolution in Europe.

    Trump’s former White House chief advisor told The Daily Beast that he is setting up a foundation in Europe called The Movement which he hopes will lead a right-wing populist revolt across the continent starting with the European Parliament elections next spring.

    The non-profit will be a central source of polling, advice on messaging, data targeting, and think-tank research for a ragtag band of right-wingers who are surging all over Europe, in many cases without professional political structures or significant budgets.

    Bannon’s ambition is for his organization ultimately to rival the impact of Soros’s Open Society, which has given away $32 billion to largely liberal causes since it was established in 1984.

    Over the past year, Bannon has held talks with right-wing groups across the continent from Nigel Farage and members of Marine Le Pen’s Front National (recently renamed Rassemblement National) in the West, to Hungary’s Viktor Orban and the Polish populists in the East.

    He envisions a right-wing “supergroup” within the European Parliament that could attract as many as a third of the lawmakers after next May’s Europe-wide elections. A united populist bloc of that size would have the ability to seriously disrupt parliamentary proceedings, potentially granting Bannon huge power within the populist movement.


  14. Ed 16

    Thought provoking and worthy of a post.

    “The Useful Altruists: How NGOs Serve Capitalism and Imperialism
    Global imperialism doesn’t just give NGOs a reason to exist, but involves them actively in the project of imperialist domination.”


  15. Ed 17

    James Renwick tweets with reference to an article about Arizona.
    “The water that we can’t see, the groundwater, is quietly disappearing.”
    Capitalism + disregard for environmental limits = disaster. Is the Mackenzie any different?”

    The New York Times article.

    A follows up tweet from Peter Harkess nail it.
    “It’s almost as if our economic system will simply not allow humanity to avoid complete global catastrophe.”

    We have a choice.
    Capitalism or a sustainable planet.

  16. eco maori 19

    The Wealthy business owner’s are having a tangi because there hoiho tripped up on the last leg of te race and ended up with ———- on there faces .
    They poured te putea into backing this hoiho .
    Business confidence has no correlation to economic performance its just a trick to get the .99% to let business get there way with employment laws that are inhumane.
    The 90 day trial is a farce the employer can sack some one with no reason no paper work given .??????????????????? it could be because one is brown or many reason that have nothing to do with the employee work performance . It could be that the employer only wanted the employee for 89 days and did not tell the employee this because if he did the employee would not take the job as it would put them in hardship at the end of the job.
    Employers think that employees are not human that they don’t deserve to be treated with respect and dignity . What they have to know is that employment is a major part of ones life and if one loses a job for bullshit reasons they are placing the employee in hardship they are placing the person whole whano in hardship. The hardship is even greater if your a Dairy-farm worker as you lose your house . But are it doesn’t matter they are not humans .
    I my eyes employees should be treated like diamonds if you look after them and polish them the will make you putea if you don’t well you lose your daimond and your putea .
    Yes I know there are some bad employees out there its up to the employer to find the correct employee and train them to be productive employees and a bit of polishing will go a long in improving the prospects of this relationship being positive for the employer and the employee. ANY WAY Eco Maori says the 90 day clause is a breach of the human rights act.
    link is below ka kite ano


  17. eco maori 20

    This is why I say the 90 day trial breaches the Human Rights ACT .
    ACT 27 The rights to justices . When a employer can sack a employee without giving a written warning or reason in writing during the 90 day trial . This employment act breaches the employee rights to justice or a fair trial they can not defend there employment rights fairly if the employer does not give a written reason why they sacked the employee.
    No written evidence and the employer can change the facts they uses to suit there dismissal of the employee employer wins case .Thats it in a karaka shell. link below. ka kite ano


  18. eco maori 21

    Good evening Newshub Mike I will have to chose my words wisely .
    Winston handles te media in his unique way he is Maori ka pai some will have
    nightmares because of this fact. Who wants to get involved with that circus in America at the minute .
    Condolences to the whanau of the boy who died in Tokomaru Bay of a heart attack .
    With our homeless this is still the tsunami of the inhumane policy’s that national have imposed on us for the last nine years thats a fact . Helen Kelly will be smiling at the humane changes that the Coalition Government has made to our society ka pai.
    One day our beaches could like the Cuban beaches if we keep putting our head in Papatuanuku on this subject of waste its everyones problem and we should all pay to get rubbish recycled in a sustainable way manufactures and consumers .
    Ka kite ano

  19. eco maori 22

    The Crowd Goes Wild James and Mulls Congratulations to our AllBlack 7 teams win in the Rugby Papatuanuku Cup Kia Kaha .
    I will preform a Haka for one person I tautoko who is on the up.
    Some people still have to learn to stop spraying on Eco Maori.
    Mulls how the guys at the Rock Radio going I heard you when you first come back to the Rock you were a bit quite for the first 2 days then you got your hilarious mojoe going the first week I thought you were James till my Son in law corrected my mistake .
    Ka kite ano i would not like those ear warmers

  20. eco maori 23

    Good morning Newshub The block Mark is a unfair contest to be fair each team should have one person who is qualified In a trade in the construction industry per team the way it is at the minute you have two teams with a big advantage over the other teams.
    And that creates tensions was that the plan.
    Aotearoa produces some of the best meat in Papatuanuku grass feed Meat has properties beneficial to the consumer . The animals get to live a life close to what they would in the wild they are less stressed =better meat quality less stress = more humane way of farming. I see some organization is still scare mongering saying meat prouduction is going to wreck our environment YEA RIGHT .. These studys are conducted in country’s were the have to irrigate grow harvest and feed the stock in feed lots . 1 This is not a natural environment for the animals 2 they have to use alot of carbon to produce this meat they probably have to pump the water from hundreds of miles away as well’.
    Were as in Aotearoa most farms the wai falls from tawhiri for free the stock harvest the grass for free they get a wider variety of fodder . Producing meat in Aotearoa has a lot less carbon input and more humane that meat produced else were . And I know that Aotearoa farmers can reduce there carbon foot print they just need to be guided in correct direction to achieve that goal of lowering our farming foot print .
    Its so hypercritical the Tsunami of home less people. people who are living in squalor mokopunas going hungry is still growing .This phenomenon has been created by nationals policy’s of the last nine years and they decide to kick sand in the common persons face who cares who these statements hurt so long as they mite get a lift in there poles so primitive .
    The problem with OUR employment is wages to the common tangata has only risen by %50 in 30 years this is lower for contracted piece rates 30% mean while the cost of living has risen 300% .Rents were $60 now they are $400 to $600 so with these facts poking us in the eyes any intelligent person can predict from the math that there was going to be big problems but O tangata its better to rent than buy a house YEA RIGHT. Mark a common person most likely pays more tax than you they don’t have the fancy accountant that you have to minimizes your tax bill O we will not raise GST whose are those words . Ka kite ano .P.S I have been missing your right clawed guest Duncan I will sort them out in good time


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