Open Mike 22/08/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 22nd, 2018 - 118 comments
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118 comments on “Open Mike 22/08/2018 ”

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  1. Grey Area 1
    22 August 2018 at 6:46 am

    Animal cruelty – a storm is coming

    First we learn the reality of American-style feedlots for cattle in New Zealand. Now Rachel Stewart says there is a an even darker side to Kiwi farming.

    Just maybe we can get some momentum to end animal cruelty in New Zealand as people realise the repugnant practices that produce animals for consumption by humans.

    We need to end factory farming. Clean Green NZ is a cruel joke.

    • corodale 1.1
      22 August 2018 at 7:12 am

      Hard to believe that passes local water quality laws. How do they get the effluent redistributed in spring, evenly across the fields? Must have impressive pond filtration and solid storage to last the winter. Is that on an inland marine clay soil? Not sure how else they would stop leaching. Workers would risk death by drug overdose during stormy weather. But as always, don’t panic, go organic!

    • gsays 1.2
      22 August 2018 at 7:34 am

      Thanks grey for sharing this.
      I have long been dismayed at the lack of shelter afforded to cattle.

      Such a basic requirement and yet it seems cattle with shelter are an anomoly rather than the norm as I remember growing up.

      This feedlot method is another black mark on the industry.
      The only way it can be justified is through an accounting lens.

    • Cinny 1.3
      22 August 2018 at 7:47 am

      The feed lots really disturbed myself and my girls. When we first saw it on the TV, we thought it was a story from overseas. But nope it’s here, and it’s all about making as much $$$$$$$$$ as possible.

      I wonder if David Parker and Damo are still ‘flatting’ together in Welly when Parliament sits? If so they have much to discuss and sort out, because feed lots is not the type of NZ we are proud of or want to be a part of.

      • marty mars 1.3.1
        22 August 2018 at 9:22 am

        Yep Damien needs to get his priorities right – he isn’t a farmers advocate he is a bloody minister. Time he started caring about the environment or his legacy will be shit imo.

    • Ngungukai 1.4
      22 August 2018 at 9:07 am

      Deer culled on Molesworth Station with 1080, DOC refused the offer of professional hunters to cull with weapons ?

    • Draco T Bastard 1.5
      22 August 2018 at 12:29 pm

      The things a nation will do to ruin their branding and their reputation is quite remarkable.

      It’s not the nation doing this – it’s the capitalists with the government supporting them.

      It’s an important distinction because it proves the lack of democracy.

  3. Dennis Frank 3
    22 August 2018 at 6:48 am

    Trotter loses plot, re-invents ACT: “the zeitgeist – the “spirit of the times”. If ever there was a moment for someone to lift up the banner of freedom – it is now. Combine the defence of free markets with the defence of free speech and Act – proudly rebranded as “The Freedom League” – might once again aspire to Prebble’s electoral success.”
    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/

    “The Social Contract”, Rousseau, in 1762: “Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains.” So will invoking antique liberationist philosophy currently work politically? In a culture where everyone believes they actually are free spirits?

    Trotter may have got more milage from using Orwell as the basis for reminding us of the threat from the left. At least there’s a substantial political tradition there from the most recent century past. He’d get more traction for ACT if he tossed free love into the mix with free speech & free markets, pushing the nostalgia button for many political players still alive. And how about free money as well? That’d rope in lots more!!

  4. Ad 4
    22 August 2018 at 7:10 am

    Big shoutout to Julie Ann Genter and her new baby.

    Congratulations!

    And welcome to New Zealand little one.

  5. AsleepWhileWalking 5
    22 August 2018 at 7:29 am

    12yr/old Kiwi is fighting for the trademark “Slime Princess”. GiveALittle link in article.

    Nickelodeon objects.

    I remember many Slime episodes of What Now?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12110802

  6. Andre 6
    22 August 2018 at 7:32 am

    The benefits of biodiversity and heritage strains of crops, illustrated yet again for the umpteenth time. A variety of corn in Mexico that has a legume-like ability to fix its own nitrogen. Combine this trait with the benefits of other more commercial strains and there’s a big potential for reduced fertilizer use, with flow-on benefits for better water quality from reduced run-off and reduced GHG emissions.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/corn-future-hundreds-years-old-and-makes-its-own-mucus-180969972/

    • marty mars 6.1
      22 August 2018 at 9:31 am

      Why not keep breeding the heritage breeds?

      I find this all arse about face. Heritage breeds generally discarded for the industrial production. Have to pollute to grow. Find heritage breed that reduces pollution – oh let’s genetically modify to get that trait. No thought apart from commercial imo. The thinking that fucked us up will not save us.

      Better off doing this type of thing

      “Three hundred years ago, when early American colonists took a look at the food gardens in Native American villages, they often saw a unique companion planting plan – sweetcorn, climbing beans and pumpkins or squash being grown together in the same plot.”
      https://www.growveg.com.au/guides/companion-planting-three-sisters-garden-plans/

      • Andre 6.1.1
        22 August 2018 at 9:47 am

        I kinda take the view that the entire spectrum of techniques have something to contribute, but there is no one silver bullet magic answer.

        I agree that corporate industrial farming has become an out-of-control Frankenstein’s monster. But let’s not lose sight of the way corporate industrial farming is good at maximising output given the various input price signals and constraints. Where we’ve fallen down is failing to impose appropriate price signals and constraints on things like energy use, pollution, animal welfare, border controls etc etc. One of the good and bad results of this state of affairs is that food is now awesomely cheap by historical standards, but it also makes it very hard for those that want to do things in a heritage way to actually make a living at it.

        • marty mars 6.1.1.1
          22 August 2018 at 10:08 am

          Is it cheap compared to yesteryear? If we grow and eat seasonally, locally and communally then it seems that would be very cost effective. But im in the country not the city so my view may be jaundiced.

          • Andre 6.1.1.1.1
            22 August 2018 at 10:47 am

            A quick google turned up this:

            https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/02/389578089/your-grandparents-spent-more-of-their-money-on-food-than-you-do

            A quick search didn’t show up a good illustrative article that’s NZ specific, but I’m pretty sure I have seen stuff indicating NZ trends are similar to the US. The sites I regularly visit also occasionally feature pieces about how meagre the financial returns are from small scale labour intensive farming.

            Yeah, there’s significant differences city to country on this. Not least that many country people derive a lot of pleasure from producing food, almost to the extent that income from it is just a bonus. Whereas city folk the pleasure is generally just around eating, with a small part of the population getting something out of feeling virtuous from paying extra for organic and/or ethical.

            I worry that with the ongoing worldwide drift from rural to urban and simple population increase pressures it’s going to be ever harder to preserve the few small pockets of heritage we still have. Especially since many of the areas with significant heritage resources overlap a lot with population growth pressure and overlap with where climate change is going to hit hardest.

            • marty mars 6.1.1.1.1.1
              22 August 2018 at 11:05 am

              Yes good points. I know a lot of seed savers and the heritage seeds are treasured. Going to be useful I think. Not sure about keeping them up in that seed vault in Norway though.

              http://time.com/5177165/climate-change-threatens-norway-seed-vault/

              • Andre …
                22 August 2018 at 11:12 am

                Seeds are useful, but the value in the heritage is the whole ecosystem involved which might be lost with a focus on just the seeds. For example, there’s no guarantee just the seeds will carry the symbiotic micro-organisms that do the actual nitrogen fixing.

                • marty mars …
                  22 August 2018 at 11:22 am

                  Yes lots to sort if we are going to get through the fast approaching/upon us now bottleneck

                  • greywarshark …
                    22 August 2018 at 12:04 pm

                    Robert G
                    Keep the seeds viable and fresh and you keep coming up with stuff to remind us what we could all be doing if we stopped tapping. Keep coming with info on – The Riverton Chronicle.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  22 August 2018 at 11:55 am

                  Here in Riverton we are operating a heritage vegetable seed saving network that “employs” growers across the region (and beyond) to keep the lines fresh. Our heritage fruit net is even more grounded, preserving the remnant orchards, grafting from them and creating new heritage orchards cared for by the communities from which the scions came, and providing grafted trees to individuals (about 5 000 so far) to plant at home. Keep it fresh and alive and involve people in the process; those things “belong” to all of us and spreading responsibility and stock is the best insurance against loss, Imo.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  22 August 2018 at 11:56 am

                  Broom and gorse, wild lupins too and naturalised clovers and vetches should solve that issue, Andre.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.2
          22 August 2018 at 12:40 pm

          Quoting Why we can’t afford the rich:

          Likewise ‘economic efficiency’. Of course it’s usually good to do things ‘efficiently’, though often that’s confused with cost savings achieved through cutting pay. Labour-saving technology like information technology has not enabled reductions in working hours, because the greater the competition between organisations, the more likely it is to mean that we just have to do more in the same working day. A microwave oven may save you time at home, allowing you to do other things as you wish, but in a fast-food restaurant it just means each worker has to produce more meals in a given time. We have always to ask: efficient for whom? Does it give us more time, or just speed up the treadmill? And as the case of the disposable plastic spoon reminds us, what is ‘cost-effective’ in money terms can be an absurdly wasteful and polluting use of resources. In the public sector, much cost cutting in the name of ‘efficiency’ merely reduces service quality and distracts services from their core purposes, so that schools teach to the test and hospitals reduce patient care and send patients home too early so as to free up beds. It encourages vacuous nonsense from management about ‘leveraging our skillsets to meet the challenge of competition going forward’, and suchlike, eroding professionals’ commitments to doing what is best for clients, patients and students, and other workers’ desire to do their job well. It can produce stress, disaffection and burn-out in workers – too busy to care for themselves and family or to have time for friends. We have to weigh all these things up in the different spheres of economic life and limit and regulate competition accordingly.

          Yet, in addition to that still rather instrumental view of our environment, we should not forget its beauty and richness. Being able to appreciate and enjoy it is an important part of well-being, and we should not apologise for these values simply because they don’t fit with a narrow economic perspective. As Ruskin said, ‘there is no wealth but life’.

          Destroying the environment as we have been is going to cost us far more than the apparent savings that industrial farming brought about.

  7. RedLogix 7
    22 August 2018 at 7:33 am

    Turnbull is in trouble; he survived a confidence vote yesterday by only 7 votes, but more resignations and defections keep the pressure on. Dutton might force his way in as PM for a short while, but it won’t last.

    And of Turnbull resigns Parliament as many have suggested it will likely force an election:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-22/malcolm-turnbull-leadership-crisis-deepens/10149440

    • te reo putake 7.1
      22 August 2018 at 7:53 am

      Threatening an early election appears to be the only card Turnbull has left to keep his caucus in line. Good times for Bill Shorten who can confidently tell his caucus to work hard, keep smiling and let the Libs gift them Government.

      • Dennis Frank 7.1.1
        22 August 2018 at 8:56 am

        You got it. But the threat will only have a short life-span, it seems. Dutton established sufficient support to try again soon. It hinges on how many of the seven who are most likely to switch to him see advantage in doing so prior to an election, rather than waiting.

        The PM can call an early election to stymie the plot, but would he do so with current polling making him a dead-cert loser?? And likely to get rolled in the aftermath, so a double loser. So as a ploy, not very effective. Which is why Oz political commentators call him dead man walking.

        A weak leader, but is Dutton any better? I doubt it. If I were Turnbull, I’d be in liaison with all the likely contenders other than Dutton right now, offering them a deal in which I’d rebuild in collaboration with them and offer resignation in advance while they sort out amongst themselves who ought to fight Dutton to take over.

        Under that scenario, Turnbull gets to prove he can be a real centrist leader, go out from a position of strength having developed a credible alternative to Dutton & Shorten – if he gets them back close to parity with Labour in the polls.

        • dukeofurl 7.1.1.1
          22 August 2018 at 9:01 am

          What was the margin of Tumbulls victory over Abbott back in 2016 ?

          10 votes. His recent margin is 13 votes.
          In Aussie politics its all about the numbers , you either have more than your opponent or you dont. End of story.
          All this waffle about another challenge …. it could happen but they dont really have time and who would that challenger be, its not going to be Dutton again.

        • Barfly 7.1.1.2
          22 August 2018 at 9:07 am

          I read recently that if an election were held now that Dutton would likely lose his seat (Fingers crossed for Turnbull going for the nuclear option)

    • Ad 7.2
      22 August 2018 at 8:19 am

      Red what are Labor’s key policies?

    • dukeofurl 7.3
      22 August 2018 at 11:37 am

      ‘confidence vote yesterday by only 7 votes”

      No it wasnt, it was 13 votes.( what you mean was if ‘7 voters change sides’)
      However Turnbull only won the vote against Abbott a few years back by 10 votes.
      His margin has never been great but its plenty in the scheme of things.

      remember in NZ Brash supposedly won the leadership against English by ONE vote.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.3.1
        22 August 2018 at 12:51 pm

        remember in NZ Brash supposedly won the leadership against English by ONE vote.

        And that was after Blinglish took National to their worst defeat ever.

    • Exkiwiforces 7.4
      22 August 2018 at 11:46 am

      If old Mal is rolled, he does the honourable thing resigned from the House of Representatives which would he has more morals and ethics than the current lot or the nuclear option, but I somehow don’t think Mal is that type of person.

      Shorten is not popular with public either and that’s even at the grassroots level of the Australian Labour Party as well. As he is seen as numbers man that rolled Rudd and later Gillard.
      Albo has the popular vote among the grassroots and the greater voting public, but hasn’t got the Party vote and head office support which is a damm shame as Albo is a true battler from the working class.

      Mal and Albo come solo parent homes both working class backgrounds, but they both took different paths later in life.

      • dukeofurl 7.4.1
        22 August 2018 at 12:27 pm

        Its mostly a NSW vs Victoria thing.

        Constantly happens, if one state has the leader the other state wants it. or more correctly the the big donors based in those states.

        Hawke ( Vic) v Keating (NSW)

        Howard -NSW v Costello -Vic ( he quite in the end rather than challenge)

        Rudd -Qld v Gillard -Vic That was an usual one which lead to yo yo

        Turnbull NSW v Abbott NSW that too is unusual and is reason why unresolved.

        Dutton is QLD so never had a chance – he was only interested in saving his seat at election time.

        This is why Bishop isnt putting hand up , shes from WA

        • Exkiwiforces 7.4.1.1
          22 August 2018 at 1:16 pm

          I don’t think Julie wants the job, as for Mal and the Mad Monk they come from to totally different spheres within the Lib’s and that’s the problem.

          Mal is a true a Lib probably more Social Liberal who would rather give someone a leg up, open minded forward thinking and science/ technology evidence base than the right wing bible bashed based conservatives like the Mad Monk.

          There is a lot of old money in both NSW and Vic compared to the other states and would there some religious stuff as aka the Catholics in Vic and Protestants of NSW etc thrown in just to keep everyone on their toes.

      • Exkiwiforces 7.5.1
        22 August 2018 at 3:20 pm

        It sure does RedLogix, just watching Mal on the telly atm and I’m starting to think that Mal might go the nuclear option?

      • One Two 7.5.2
        22 August 2018 at 10:52 pm

        Mudoch media vehicle says…”democracy is dead”…

        As if it’s not a primary component of the ‘death squad’…

  8. Ad 8
    22 August 2018 at 8:18 am

    With the jury due on Manafort, flipping Cohen and getting him to court in the same week is orchestrated media mastery from Mullers team.

    Well played, Sir.

  9. mauī 9
    22 August 2018 at 8:58 am

    “If that is the case, let Māori speak for us,” he told the summit. “Our people need help right now.”

    Anzac Wallace at the criminal justice summit. Enough said.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/08/government-wants-to-lower-m-ori-prison-stats-but-hasn-t-set-specific-target.html

    • marty mars 9.1
      22 August 2018 at 10:24 am

      Yep – this is part of colonisation. The fact that more police are coming on just fills me with foreboding cos we know they racially profile.
      The great kauri are dying, the rivers are sick, the land is degraded and abused – these plus the prison pop and all the other negative stats from longevity to employment that affect Māori are SYMPTOMS – of what? The continued colonisation of Māori. The continued othering and disrespect. The continued desecration of mana. Be warned kiwiland.

      • mauī 9.1.1
        22 August 2018 at 11:13 am

        Thanks marty. When I saw Anzac on the news last night it really struck a chord with me, very powerful what he said. Opened the door to reality for viewers I hope. Speaking as a pakeha I think we have to do what we can to help – and that doesn’t mean telling Māori what to do.

        As I think has been talked about on here previously that might involve discussing and changing things based from korero on the marae. Officials going to the marae for help and solutions to fix this, not the other way round.

        • marty mars 9.1.1.1
          22 August 2018 at 11:25 am

          Yes i agree with you and thanks for putting the comment up. I missed it last night (working).

          The solutions are there – not sure if they will be palatable for our society.

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.2
        22 August 2018 at 12:54 pm

        The great kauri are dying, the rivers are sick, the land is degraded and abused – these plus the prison pop and all the other negative stats from longevity to employment that affect Māori are SYMPTOMS – of what? The continued colonisation of Māori. The continued othering and disrespect. The continued desecration of mana.

        It is all the inevitable result of capitalism and the All against All society that it produces.

      • dukeofurl 9.1.3
        22 August 2018 at 2:07 pm

        Colonisation cant be attributed for say so many Maoris in prison. The vast majority are law abiding and I have been told by maori who have one of their whanau in a gang, that they just think they are a fool.
        Yes , huge amounts of land were lost from colonization policies, so not so much remains. With Maori and jails its the other way around. Very small proportion are involved in criminal activity.

  10. Andre 10
    22 August 2018 at 9:14 am

    One of the big issues Mueller’s investigation has lifted the lid on is just how soft the US has become on white-collar crime, helped along by getting distracted to focus on “terrorism”. Routine inability to keep things in perspective, or calculated strategy by white-collar crims, and the pollies and judges they buy?

    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17757636/cohen-manafort-white-collar-crime

  11. Cinny 11
    22 August 2018 at 9:33 am

    Sad news …… TVNZ news presenter and journalist Greg Boyed has died in Europe.

    Much love to all of his family and friends.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12111311

    • Blazer 11.1
      22 August 2018 at 9:39 am

      That is really sad.On the outside he looked like he had everything.

      Life is full of emptiness at times.

      • Anne 11.1.1
        22 August 2018 at 10:53 am

        He was one of the best journos and current affairs hosts in NZ – strictly fair and balanced. It’s deeply sad.

    • marty mars 11.2
      22 August 2018 at 9:41 am

      Fuck that is so sad. Suicide is shit. Sending love to all involved.

    • Dennis Frank 11.3
      22 August 2018 at 10:18 am

      Really hard to comprehend, this. I often worked with Greg during his first few years in the TVNZ newsroom, found him invariably in good humour & developed an easy rapport with him right from the start. So very sad for his family.

      There must be a deep back-story to this – wonder if it will ever come out. He became adept at presenting with both flair & goodwill to the audience. Huge loss for TVNZ.

      • Cinny 11.3.1
        22 August 2018 at 11:04 am

        Dennis, often those struggling with depression hide it so very well as they don’t want to be a bother, or feel like they’ve let anyone down.

        He was fantastic at his job and well respected.

        • Dennis Frank 11.3.1.1
          22 August 2018 at 11:36 am

          Yes, Cinny, enough of that myself in the distant past to wonder if he’d been carrying an affliction from childhood. The macho stance was widely used as repression in my generation but Greg being that much younger I can but guess how much it applied to him.

        • greywarshark 11.3.1.2
          22 August 2018 at 11:45 am

          Bobby McFerrin hams up here about problems he has faced I think and tells us how to keep on top. You can be dressed for success, get it and still not feel right. I think Robin Williams is in this vid too. Don’t Worry Be Happy
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

        • Exkiwiforces 11.3.1.3
          22 August 2018 at 5:30 pm

          Yes Cindy, we are very good at hiding it until something or someone tiggers it off again and it’s then a race back down the rabbit hole just little bit further than last time until we turn around and pop back out of the rabbit or we pass the LD.

          LD is a Military term for Line of Departure when one is about to commit than attack or counter attack on a enemy position or also known as the point of no return. I only got as far as the FUP (Form Up Point) which is just the before the LD where you do your final checks before you get ready to cross the LD. My FSGT cross his LD and the NT Police nick me before I completed my final checks before I cross the LD.

          Sorry for using Military terminology it’s the only way I can describe it to someone and actually I one step further in that I use the Military planning formula called the Military Appreciation Process or MAP which scared my treatment team and when I was down at the clinic last year my partner ( now my wife) mentioned to the staff at meeting which became a light bulb moment for staff at why we are so good at it than civilians.

    • Patricia Bremner 11.4
      22 August 2018 at 11:53 am

      That is so sad. One of life’s good folk.

    • OnceWasTim 11.5
      22 August 2018 at 4:10 pm

      Indeed @ Cinny and to all the comments below. He was/is a good bugger.
      Alison Mau (though she doesn’t claim to be ‘best buddies’ on Stuffed) has summed things up well.

      ( In my view: Decent, Humble, Intelligent, Social, Spiritual, and not at all Egotistical). Something didn’t feel quite right leaving Te Puke last Saturday

  12. marty mars 12
    22 August 2018 at 9:46 am

    Great article – thanks Clementine

    “This, to my mind, is what lies at the heart of Megan V’s original tweet. The assumption that young girls are “in their prime” and therefore free to be pursued and used by adult men who require control in a relationship in order to feel comfortable in it.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/love-sex/106462832/psa-to-girls-under-18

  13. WILD KATIPO 13
    22 August 2018 at 10:54 am

    We are not unique,… Canadians even have Pukeko’s…

    Moorhen team building a nest in Canada Water – YouTube
    Video for canadian moorhen you tube▶ 1:20
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWO0f3spbbU

  14. Dennis Frank 14
    22 August 2018 at 10:57 am

    Brainstorming a new centrist party is the latest fashion trend in UK politics: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/20/prospect-new-uk-party-grows-westminster-political-cracks-brexit

    Evidence that the trend is substantial lies in the various independent initiatives emerging. Classic niche marketing: when the niche becomes evident, entrepreneurs compete to fill the vacuum. LibDems spot the trend & wonder if they really are dead in the water (or do they flog the dead horse yet again to see if it will leap up & run).

    None of which would matter under FPP, if it weren’t for the fact that both major parties are sick nigh unto death themselves!

  15. SaveNZ 15
    22 August 2018 at 11:41 am

    Fletcher Building in red, posts $190m loss, no dividend for shareholders

    (maybe they should also add no company taxes for taxpayers in NZ)

    Apparently that is mostly due to their unusually low tender that John Key was involved with to Sky City for the conference centre that has been a balls up for taxpayers from the word go. from wiki

    Proposed convention centre[edit]
    In May 2013, the Government came to a deal with SkyCity to build a convention centre worth $402 million in exchange for gambling concessions. The concessions would allow SkyCity to install an extra 230 poker machines, 40 gambling tables, as well as a further 12 gaming tables that could be substituted for automated table game player stations (but not poker machines). SkyCity would also receive an extension to their casino licence, from its expiry in 2021 until 2048. In exchange, SkyCity would be required to meet the full costs of the convention centre project.[13]

    Describing the benefit for New Zealand, Economic Development Minister, Steven Joyce said the convention centre would add an estimated $90 million a year to the local economy, create 1,000 jobs during construction and 800 jobs once the centre is running.[13]

    Cost overruns[edit]
    In 2015 it was announced that the anticipated cost of the convention centre had increased by $70 to $130 million, to a total maximum of $530 million. Prime Minister John Key said he was considering making up the shortfall by giving SkyCity public tax money to finish the project – as it would be an “eyesore” if the extra funding was not made available.[14] Two days later on 12 February, following criticism in the media and in Parliament, the Prime Minister described the use of taxpayer funds as the “least preferred option”.[15] Subsequently, on 15 February, it was announced that instead of seeking funding from the government for project over-runs, SkyCity would instead be allowed to build a convention centre which was slightly smaller, so that total costs would remain about $400 million

    • dukeofurl 15.1
      22 August 2018 at 12:02 pm

      better than it looks, as revenue is up slightly to $9.5 bill and cash is around $660 mill.
      Because of the writeoffs they had to go back to their banks who then screwed them for $150 mill ‘to refinance’ their borrowing.

      They still paid $85 mill in tax, according the financial report – as you would expect as they are ‘still rolling in it’ on a cash basis

      • SaveNZ 15.1.1
        22 August 2018 at 12:20 pm

        All good then when the banks get $150 mill for refinancing while the tax payers only get 85 mill (if you are correct) and the shareholders get nothing? sarcasm.

        • SaveNZ 15.1.1.1
          22 August 2018 at 12:34 pm

          Wonder if Fltecher’s refinanced through ANZ…

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/97996782/john-key-to-chair-anz-board

          (if so, maybe they learn first hand about the moniker “smiling assassin”).

          • Blazer 15.1.1.1.1
            22 August 2018 at 12:39 pm

            Fletchers has been destroying shareholder wealth since Hugh ran it and it was split up.
            So many Sirs have been involved Trotter,Deans,Norris …none of them could run a bath.
            Some of their acquisitions beggar belief…lame dupe overpayers.
            New board appointments the usual shuffle of the old boy network pack.(includes women)

            • Ngungukai 15.1.1.1.1.1
              22 August 2018 at 3:51 pm

              Fletchers have been subsidised by the NZ Taxpayer ever since Adam was a cowboy ?

          • dukeofurl 15.1.1.1.2
            22 August 2018 at 2:18 pm

            It was a whole slew of banks ,
            At 30 June 2018 the Group had a $925 million syndicated
            revolving credit facility on an unsecured, negative pledge and
            borrowing covenant basis, with ANZ Bank New Zealand Limited,
            MUFG Bank Limited, Bank of New Zealand, Commonwealth Bank
            of Australia, Citibank N.A., The Hongkong and Shanghai Banking
            Corporation Limited, Bank of China (New Zealand) Limited,
            China Construction Bank (New Zealand) Limited and Westpac New
            Zealand Limited.

            MUFG is Japans largest Bank

            • SaveNZ 15.1.1.1.2.1
              22 August 2018 at 4:41 pm

              Knew ANZ would be in there somehow:) surprise surprise… JK just pops up everywhere when smaller folks and the public and even the corps lose money and banks make a killing.

    • SaveNZ 15.2
      22 August 2018 at 1:38 pm

      Back to the gambling concessions.

      So does anyone know when did the extra gambling concessions come in for Skycity? Because the deal was agreed in 2013 and my guess is the gambling concessions were near instant, while 5 years later, in 2018 and we still don’t have the convention centre and even when built we don’t get that extra large convention centre that was promised.

      Meanwhile sounds like they already have the extra gambling and no doubt the government will bend over backwards to extend it to 2048, even though we are never going to get that extra large convention centre that the whole deal was based on but instead a smaller cheaper one, that is too small for the large conferences. Not that I believe in the conference centre anyway as most of the time they are just corporate welfare jobs.

      Sounds like the F-ing bottle water fiasco, the corporate gets free water rights straight away but doesn’t even have to provide the unspecified paltry jobs going to anybody until they get full water capacity…

      And it sounds like the deal is now bringing down Fletchers profits too and their shareholders some of whom might be Kiwisaver’s, aka the poorest working class people in NZ and of course Fletchers is one of the biggest snowflakes whining they can’t get any staff cheap enough or why should they bother to train anybody or take a long term view on labour and plan for their contracts.

  16. Patricia Bremner 16
    22 August 2018 at 11:56 am

    Part of John Key’s questionable legacy?

  17. dukeofurl 17
    22 August 2018 at 12:18 pm

    Im just worried that as part of deal Key and Joyce did, that the ratepayers/taxpayers will have to cover some of the shortfall.
    The chips may not be down till the place opens and like a magic act the curtain is pulled back to reveal all.

  18. SaveNZ 18
    22 August 2018 at 12:42 pm

    Also racist to discriminate so NZ taxpayers via the government should have to give freely to anybody asking for a handout so maybe

    WINC (work, income, new Corporates, ) and since they are expecting avalanche of them with our TPPA and our new infrastructure agency, maybe (work, income, new Corporates, welcome in New capitalists)…

    WINC WINC

    • Draco T Bastard 19.1
      22 August 2018 at 1:18 pm

      One point I’ve come to understand over the years is that it’s impossible to negotiate a ‘market wage’ if you don’t what the market is actually paying and the majority of people actually don’t know, don’t have the connections to find out and don’t know where else to look.

      • Dennis Frank 19.1.1
        22 August 2018 at 2:23 pm

        In the seventies everyone discussed each others income freely – or at least they did in my workplaces. Think that changed during the eighties with the onset of neoliberalism & the privacy laws brought in to make it hard for pay info to become public knowledge.

        There’s been a corporate strategy of privatisation for much longer, actually. The radical notion that capitalism could flourish by identifying individuals as unique emerged as a re-boot strategy in the aftermath of WWII. It fostered consumerism within the USA in the fifties, then produced individualism as a cultic trend in the sixties, which morphed via hedonism in the seventies into the globalising of neoliberalism in the eighties. All of the above specifically designed to oppose the rampant collectivism of the earlier decades of the 20th century, and the class-consciousness it had produced.

        So whereas opposition to privatisation has been primarily based on ideology & economic policy grounds, there’s a deeper cultural trend driving it, of which privacy laws are a symptom – designed to operate like blinkers on a farm-horse, to force everyone into mental silos so common interests can be defeated.

      • Puckish Rogue 19.1.2
        22 August 2018 at 4:14 pm

        Theres always things people can all agree on

        • Dennis Frank 19.1.2.1
          22 August 2018 at 5:10 pm

          Yeah, like `grass is green’, `the sun rises in the east’. Perhaps a few others… 🙄

        • Draco T Bastard 19.1.2.2
          22 August 2018 at 10:51 pm

          Ah, but would you be willing to have award rates so that people can go into the negotiations with a good idea as to what the market rate is?

      • RedLogix 19.1.3
        22 August 2018 at 7:53 pm

        On that point I have to totally agree DtB. It’s become common for employment contracts to actually forbid employees from discussing wages with each other.

  20. Andre 20
    22 August 2018 at 2:09 pm

    For all the Trump fanbois and fangirls that are trying to minimise, deflect and distract by whining about the Dems and Clinton and what else isn’t being covered over in the post specifically about the Cohen and Manafort news, here’s a piece that includes some of the other big news of today in US politics.

    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17766146/michael-cohen-guilty-plea-paul-manafort-day-explained

    tl;dr

    The turd tornado’s very first supporter in the House, Duncan Hunter of San Diego, has just been indicted for misappropriating a quarter-mil in campaign funds, thereby putting a completely safe Repug seat in play.

    Don of the Deadbrains’ own administration says their new EPA initiative will cause around 1400 premature deaths every year from pollution.

    Yet another of the scaly orange swampking’s odious creatures, Larry Kudlow, has been busted for links to white supremacists.

  21. Henryg1234 21
    22 August 2018 at 3:30 pm

    R.I.P met him a couple times was a nice enough guy http://mobile.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.php?c_id=1&objectid=12111311

  22. Ed 22
    22 August 2018 at 4:47 pm

    Looking forward to Morrissey’s take on the dreadful Greg Newbold and his grim outbursts on Mora’s Panel.
    Even more interesting was Mora’s attempts to stop Joe Bennett ‘s efforts to challenge Newbold’s repulsive views.

    • Morrissey 22.1
      22 August 2018 at 9:45 pm

      I’m on the case, Ed. I heard Newbold—can anyone believe he’s a PROFESSOR?—and was amazed at how incoherent he was. He’s just not up to it.

      A transcript will be up tomorrow some time. In the meantime, here’s a snatch of Professor Newbold’s learned conversation….

      PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Bloody rubbish. Absolute rubbish. Absolute bloody rubbish, the bloody lot. If you strengthen whanau ties with Maori all you’re doing is strengthening gang affiliations.

      ….Awkward pause….

      JIM MORA: You could say the same about Pakeha offenders.

      PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

      JIM MORA: Is there research about interventions?

      PROFESSOR [believe it or not] GREG NEWBOLD: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s Canadian ones….

      REBEKAH WHITE: So we haven’t researched Integrated Centre Management in New Zealand?

      “PROFESSOR” [allegedly] GREG NEWBOLD: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah…..

      MORA: [delicately] It is interesting hearing a contrarian voice from outside the Summit, Greg….

  23. Rosemary McDonald 23
    22 August 2018 at 5:10 pm

    I’m not a fan of Newbold, but having never been in jail, much less in maximum security, I have to defer somewhat to his superior knowledge.

    When he said ‘build more prisons’ I took that to mean build better prisons….ones less inclined to be the testosterone soak pits described by Bennett.

    • Morrissey 23.1
      22 August 2018 at 9:51 pm

      I’m not a fan of Newbold, but having never been in jail, much less in maximum security, I have to defer somewhat to his superior knowledge.

      Did he sound knowledgeable or well read today? Here’s a sample of his “superior knowledge” on display on national radio:

      Bloody rubbish. Absolute rubbish. Absolute bloody rubbish, the bloody lot. If you strengthen whanau ties with Maori all you’re doing is strengthening gang affiliations. …. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. … Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s Canadian ones…. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah…..

      When he said ‘build more prisons’ I took that to mean build better prisons

      No, he meant what he said: “Build more prisons.” He supported National’s cruel and insane idea to build that mega-prison in Te Awamutu.

  25. eco maori 25
    23 August 2018 at 8:23 am

    Good morning Newshub I keep a sharp eye on all my offspring for signs of depression
    Mike I all ways talk to them and support them with love and care.
    I bet that’s people are trying to blame Eco Maori for all the emotion’s being release at the Justice reforming summit you should have seen it coming Blame me for a unjust system that you and your tipuna imposed on us for 200 year’s .
    What I will say to te emotional tangata whenua is don’t rock the government’s Waka to much because the main cause of the prison population increase was national if you throw to much emotions around national will use it as a weapon to try and sink the Labour Waka so be cool we don’t need a repeat of 2008 and the last 9 year’s of money transference to the wealthy.
    Phil Colins Mama is awsome song his music is cool Musician Sports people and all the people who make our films doco ex these people are the people who change the Papatuanuku culture to a less divided world do not accept raciest unhumane people views and back equality.
    Ka kite ano Try losing your mother at 9

  27. eco maori 27
    23 August 2018 at 6:40 pm

    Good evening Newshub There are a lot of ruff tangaroa in Australia and a storm going down in America this is the problem with the democratic systems both country’s and NZ go so far with policy’s to mitigate climate change they get voted out and the neo liberals capitalist throw those policy’s out there cots and start to burn OUR environment
    we will never beat climate change unless all the left voters stand up and keep the neo capitalist out of power.
    The air traffic control tower in Wellington will become a land mark for Wellington and Aotearoa Its a awsome building .
    The new Britsh weather satellite is a tool that will help forecast the weather more accurately ka pai .
    Ka kite ano P.S the sandflys are still swarming I ignore them they are nothing compared to Eco Maori

  28. eco maori 28
    23 August 2018 at 7:25 pm

    The Crowd Goes Wild Mulls and Makere thats cool that the Black Ferns will play the opening game for the All Blacks test thats good for wahine mana .
    I see te Ngati pakeha maori is out is he interviewing people in his jandles lol
    Ka kite ano P.S I’m quite good at applying te rubber —- on some people

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