Open Mike 22/11/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 22nd, 2017 - 105 comments
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105 comments on “Open Mike 22/11/2017”

  1. Tony Veitch (not etc) 1

    So, Mugabe’s gone. Now, one murderous thug will be replaced by another murderous thug – and all with China’s blessing!

    Beware the creeping influence of Chinese economic power!

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1

      According to the reports that Zimbaweans kept Beijing in the loop, Beijing discussed it with Washington*.

      I recall the hope that Mugabe once represented. We’re kidding ourselves if we don’t acknowledge the same dynamics at work in our alleged Social Democracy.

      All that fighting, and for what, when we just throw it away in a generation or two?

      *Edit: now I think about it: the reports were a bit vague. Maybe it was the Zimbaweans that kept Washington in the loop too.

  2. Sanctuary 2

    This is a catastrophe for the United States – they’ll cripple the internet for Americans and force organisations like Google and Facebook offshore.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/trump-net-neutrality-repeal-internet-rules-fcc-free-latest-news-ajit-pai-a8067811.html

    The scale of the disaster is unimaginable. All that will remain is anyone willing to pay the ISP a ransom. Porn? Gone. LGBT sites right wing fundamentalists don’t approve of? In the slow lane of dial up speed. Online media like theAtlantic, Huff post, or Salon? Sorry, Comcast has it’s own deal with Breitbart for news. If you like Facebook, and they don’t pay the ransom – hey! lets revive Myspace on Verizon! Like Twitch? Sorry, your ISP has a deal with Google for youtube exclusivity.

    Utter insanity is reigning in America.

    • mickysavage 2.1

      Yep Trump is one vindictive bastard. It seems anything Obama accomplished Trump will destroy.

      • mpledger 2.1.1

        The thing is that Trump thinks his revenge on Obama is some kind of success while history will forever remember Trump as a complete and utter idiot.

        Obama doesn’t need to do a thing or say a word – Trump will just bury himself.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.2

        The centre-right and their own goals. Massive gap in the market opening up for anyone who doesn’t live in the USA.

        Assuming they can get their vindictive malice past the courts, that is.

      • One Two 2.1.3

        Trump is simply continuing a process..

        Obama was also involved

    • Rightly or wrongly 2.2

      I had to laugh Sanctuary, at your possible freudian slip whereby the item at the top of your list of concerns is the likely demise of porn sites.

      • Sanctuary 2.2.1

        I listed porn first because it is the most obvious example of the sort of “going after your enemies” censorship that is going to happen. How long does anyone think porn sites are going to last once the evangelicals get a campaign going to throttle their speed back to extinction?

    • mauī 2.3

      We don’t have proper net neutrality anyway and I think its getting continually worse. Most of what people consume on the internet is all filtered through major corps like google, book of the face, and youtube.

    • joe90 2.4

      The fix is in.

      Over the last 6 mos, my office has investigated a massive scheme to corrupt the @FCC's comment process on #NetNeutrality by impersonating 100,000s of real Americans.The FCC has been unwilling to provide information that is critical to the investigation: https://t.co/xxFjSg6Pxf— Eric Schneiderman (@AGSchneiderman) November 22, 2017

      https://twitter.com/AGSchneiderman/status/933151128706936834

      View story at Medium.com

  3. eco maori 3

    I’v meet Dr Tim Mackle from DNZ a few years back hes cool
    With our water if it takes 50 years for the leaching cycle !!!!!!!!! well we have to innervate to mitigate OUR water problems . I liked the air blanket system this helps with water circulation and puts oxygen into our water but I think that it is to high tec and expensive to roll out on a large scale which is what we need to do to protect our water quality .I have seen a low tec wind mill in China that does the same thing these wind mills just had paddles that spun half in water and put oxygen in water and creates circulation low tec low cost creates employment maintenance of these wind mills we have to look for low cost options to fix OUR problems a dollar save is like earning two dollars more oxygen more fish eating algae ect .
    Another idea I have been pondering on for a few years is solar panels on Dairy sheds they could have a back up battier pack to keep milking in a power cut and keep the chiller going you will only be able to have one going at one time as It would be to expensive to have a back up system for both. And Fonterra would be-able to cut out the middle man go strait to the manufacture and cut cost heaps on solar systems battier back up systems and wind mill to oxygenate water this will help clean up Fonterras Brand around our world. Hydrogen cars are to expensive and in my view big business not wanting to cede power ie control of our energy this Is Elons Mus view . Electric vehicles and very efficient vehicles is the way to go.
    Houseing shortage keys plan to get him and his mates richer .Environment problems key and bull not wanting to upset there mates an thats why Its a big problem now.
    I buy most of my fule from Gull because they support Labour. Kia Kaha

    • eco maori 3.1

      Hydrogen all the infrastructure is to expensive to set up we are using electricity now just need charge stations installed ka pai

      • eco maori 3.1.1

        I’m going to take my moko to Kelly Tarltons It will be awesome Ka pai

      • greywarshark 3.1.2

        Could we get our own town milking systems back? They would be encouraged to be sustainable, might be offered large tax advantages for putting in solar panels and methane tanks too perhaps.

        They would work on a different cost structure to Fonterra, the main market would be town supply, they would operate on a different pasture system cutting out most fertiliser, they would be part of the food system for the region and have a protected income level, that was sufficient for profitability.

        They would probably be entirely separate from Fonterra as the corporate structure and understanding of domestic suppliers would be alien to them, not being export-oriented. The local farmers would put in some R&D and perhaps develop a product that could be sold elsewhere in NZ and also exported overseas to countries beyond Australia.

        • beatie 3.1.2.1

          Yes! i live next door to a small farm that supplies raw milk through a 24 hr vending system. it’s taken off the last few years because the milk ($2.50 per litre) tastes much, much nicer than industrial milk.

          • greywarshark 3.1.2.1.1

            I buy local milk delivered, and support Palmerston North organic milk in supermarket and now I also can buy organic milk at my co-op. I think given half a chance NZ will boom with all sorts of ideas and products from the bright sparks ready to go. Perhaps now we’ve got the arrogant bums off our government seats, the country can be released into the wild blue yonder.

  4. What the fuck? I just read the plot of a Black Mirror episode in a news report. That Charlie Brooker is one clever bastard.

    In the Guardian:

    Sesame Credit, a credit-scoring agency setup by Alibaba and Tencent, is designed to make Orwellian self-surveillance a reality. As well as creditworthiness, it measures political loyalty – based on user data gathered by China’s two biggest internet companies. People with low scores won’t get job offers, loans or high-speed internet; people who network with people with low scores will also get downgraded. The project, which is awaiting regulatory approval, has been decried by human rights groups as a mass surveillance tool. But it is nothing compared to what China is planning with artificial intelligence. Last month, the Chinese state issued a strategy designed to achieve global leadership in AI by 2030. As part of the plan, the private sector is ordered routinely to share its user data with the state. This puts China in the unique position among major powers of having no formal barriers to state exploitation of private commercial data. If it succeeds, China will create a consumer market whose customer data is completely interpenetrated with state surveillance mechanisms, and a population whose behaviour can be predicted right down to their choice of underwear.

    • Colonial Viper 4.1

      If it succeeds, China will create a consumer market whose customer data is completely interpenetrated with state surveillance mechanisms, and a population whose behaviour can be predicted right down to their choice of underwear.

      The west already achieved this in the decade after 9/11.

      As a FVEY member we are part of this, and subject to this.

        • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1

          Why? Does a citation make it more real to you?

          You don’t recall the original releases of the Snowden files through the Guardian and the follow ups to all that via WikiLeaks and other sources?

          • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1.1

            Why?

            Because it’s necessary for you to back up what you say.

            You don’t recall the original releases of the Snowden files through the Guardian and the follow ups to all that via WikiLeaks and other sources?

            I don’t recall the specific details, no.

      • The west already achieved this in the decade after 9/11

        Ah, this explains why I’m so fearful of associating with people who have low government loyalty scores in case it impacts on my own career. Or it would, if any of it had actually happened somewhere outside Colonial Viper’s head.

    • Sanctuary 4.2

      Ohhhh, you mean what National were calling “social investment”? The number of ideas National clearly got from China went up by one.

      Having said that, China is shaping up as the greatest threat to the idea of individualism and the liberty of the individual since Xerxes took out his map and said “Now I shall deal with those pesky Greeks…”

  5. Ad 5

    Who needs classical economics, when you have, from O Brother Where Art Thou, The Big Rock Candy Mountain:

    [Verse 1]
    One evening as the sun went down
    And the jungle fire was burning
    Down the track came a hobo hikin’
    And he said, “Boys, I’m not turning
    I’m headed for a land that’s far away
    Besides the crystal fountains
    So come with me, we’ll go and see
    The Big Rock Candy Mountains.”

    [Verse 2]
    In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
    There’s a land that’s fair and bright
    Where the handguns grow on bushes
    And you sleep out every night
    Where the boxcars all are empty
    And the sun shines everyday
    All the birds and the bees
    And the cigarette trees
    The lemonade springs
    Where the bluebird sings
    In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

    [Verse 3]
    In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
    All the cops have wooden legs
    And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth
    And the hens lay soft-boiled eggs
    The farmers’ trees are full of fruit
    And the barns are full of hay
    Oh, I’m bound to go
    Where there ain’t no snow
    Where the rain don’t fall
    The wind don’t blow
    In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

    [Verse 4]
    In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
    You never change your socks
    And the little streams of alcohol
    Come trickling down the rocks
    The brakemen have to tip their hats
    And the railroad bulls are blind
    There’s a lake of stew
    And of whiskey too
    You can paddle all around them
    In a big canoe
    In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

    [Verse 5]
    In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
    The jails are made of tin
    And you can walk right out again
    As soon as you are in
    There ain’t no short-handled shovels
    No axes, saws, or picks
    I’m going to stay
    Where you sleep all day
    Where they hung the jerk
    That invented work
    In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  6. greywarshark 6

    I don’t think much of that Ad as a rejoinder to the post. It is sarcastic, cynical, and you have chosen to offer derisively, a child’s dream, an excessively fantastic response.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike]

  7. gsays 7

    I have had a look at the ncea level one maths exam.
    I had helped my son study for it.
    The level of reasoning needed seemed very high, before being able to demonstrate your knowledge.
    Not sure where to from here, wether the marks get moderated and 30% becomes the new 50% or what.

    • mpledger 7.1

      In some of the questions adding a line or forming triangles to a diagram was a big step before being able to answer the question with knowledge learned in class. Sometimes you can know the math really well but just not get those insights.

      I thought it was very long. It meant kids doing multiple papers could take time from those papers to spend more time on geometry.

      NZQA have profiles of expected performance so if the exam is too hard then they adjust it back to the profiles.
      http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/nqfdocs/ncea-resource/pep/2017/91031-pep-17.pdf

      But it’s really not good practice to make an exam so hard that all the scores are bunched up – they should be well spread so that categorising scores into E, M, A & NA is obvious and fair.

      • gsays 7.1.1

        Hey cheers mp, for your insights.
        So hard to watch your child be disillusioned and have their confidence dented by a test.
        He is a resilient kid and I am a parent that doesnt shelter him from too much from life’s ups and downs, but this has been quite impactful for me (more so than him perhaps)

    • Andre 7.2

      Hey gsays, sorry this is a bit late. Been away helping at a school camp this week so I’ve been disconnected for a while.

      Had a look at the level 1 math exams, and yeah, the geometry one looked a bit intense for that level.

      But what bothers me more about it is I really don’t see how that knowledge of geometry and spatial relationships is of any use to anyone except a few esoteric specialists. The small part of geometric properties as a field that is of value to engineers or technical trades can certainly get covered in later years, and academic pointy-heads that go on to get into abstract math theory can pick it up if it ever becomes relevant to them. Seems to me it would be better for most students to drop that geometry in favour of other aspects of math that might be more broadly useful.

      The other two parts looked reasonable to me. Though I’ve no idea if the content and level of the exam was appropriate to what had been taught through the year,

      The lesson I would take from it and would have told any of mine if they had sat it is more of an exam technique one. Read through the whole lot, and start with what looks easiest then go on to the stuff that’s harder.

      • gsays 7.2.1

        Thanks Andre, Good exam advice.
        It’s funny, a couple of sleeps and a day at Himatangi beach (getting the ute stuck with a full load) and already the exam from hell has become a distant memory.

  8. Anne 8

    So, Barry Soper says Jacinda Ardern needs to drop her guard in the public eye.

    Yesterday I mildly criticised “Jacinda” for not being firm enough with Jack Tane’s infantile interrogation of her. Today I’m well and truly on her side.

    They’re ganging up on her aren’t they. On the one hand she’s too accessible. On the other hand she’s not accessible enough. On the one hand she’s too open and honest. On the other hand she’s not open and honest enough. And so it goes on…

    Soper is just the latest to jump on the bully boy/girl media bandwagon.

    He makes an interesting point when he says:

    Under normal circumstances our closest neighbour in the big league, the Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, should have done the honours as other Aussie leaders have done with Kiwi newbies in the past.

    Yes. Turnbull should have been introducing her to the leaders etc. Instead she was left on her own and Justin Trudeau stepped into the breach. Good on him for doing so. Soper then goes on and effectively blames Ardern for the whole silly nonsense.

    • It’s a testament to Key’s skill that supposedly-seasoned journalists like Soper prat on about him being an “open book” and “just like the guy next door.” I guess that in the circles Soper moves in, the guy next door could well be a corporate weasel from the currency trading business who’s well-used to playing people for suckers, but fortunately I’ve never had any neighbours like that.

      • greywarshark 8.1.1

        Jacinda and her advisors will have to be ready for various psychological ploys.
        Anne refers to the attempt to demolish her persona – not strong enough, too strong etc. It is a false debate between these RW journalist ‘apparrotchiks’ like surgeons over her body as they try to remove her authority with keyhole surgery.

        One of the tricks might be good cop, bad cop, and it may have already started.
        One will always find fault, and the other will defend her and damn her with faint praise.

        • Reality 8.1.1.1

          Seems like a form of bullying to me. Young, female, friendly, approachable – they see her as easy to pick on. She is a quick learner and will stand her ground. Ask that twerp Matk Richardson.

          • Rightly or wrongly 8.1.1.1.1

            More likely that after Hipkin’s role in interferring in Aussie domestic politics (Ardern refused to apologise for) and her further embarrassing comments arount refugees that Turnball is not predisposed to do anything for Ardern.

            Actions have consequences

            • greywarshark 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Rightly or wrongly
              You don’t care which, and aren’t going to attempt to establish truth, is that why you chose your pseudo? Hipkins didn’t interfere with Oz politics, he was just trying to establish some facts, which when viewed by someone as relaxed as yourself, is a provocative thing to do.

              Turnbull by the way is not king of Oz to hand out favours to other smaller countries, he heads a democracy and a government that we are always trying to collect facts about, and taking its pulse to ensure it is still a functioning entity, it’s just unfortunate they consider that provocative too.

          • greywarshark 8.1.1.1.2

            Yes you have to be a quick learner against journalists who are looking for the plat du jour and who often are young, female, friendly and approachable just like the PM. Jacinda will be able to sum her age and gender peer group easily, and the old hacks are predictable either in their known habits and integrity or their ‘unbearable lightness of being’.

      • Reality 8.1.2

        At least Barry Soper’s article recognised the triviality of the issue – unlike Jack Tame’s nonsensical angle. On the other hand I can just imagine MSM’s reaction if Jacinda divulged private personal details about herself like Key and his vasectomy etc etc. I think she has got it pretty well right.

    • John Shears 8.2

      At the age of 64 years and married to a 32 year old I would have expected Soper to have more savvy and manners than he shows in the trite and waste of ink and newsprint article that Anne refers to.
      He uses the story of Jacinda being Trudeau’s wife to pad out his effort instead of making it quite clear that the story was an MSM load of tripe, he has fouled his own nest by not doing so.
      He maybe a longstanding journo., Perhaps he needs to retire and find a job that he can actually handle.
      Suggesting that Jacinda should be like our previous PM is close to disgusting , not exactly weinsteinery but hey!!!!

    • CLEANGREEN 8.3

      Yes Anne I spotted that “ganging up against jacinda” it is offensive as she dererves respect not an ugly mob rule here!!!

      Media are now out of control so we want jacinda to take over our public media again and run it for our public services good not for cheap shot political events and right wing activities.

      • Puckish Rogue 8.3.1

        Wow so any questioning of Jacinda is bullying and only those journalists that are deemed worthy as decided by Labour should only be published

        • Reality 8.3.1.1

          Puckish Rogue – you are being really silly. Of course our new PM should be questioned in a professional, direct, and intelligent way. She should not be bullied and harassed by second rate reporters exaggerating a trivial issue so they can get a headline. That is all they are interested in. Jack Tame would have been a smug little chappie yesterday having got his headline. Pathetic.

          • Puckish Rogue 8.3.1.1.1

            Jacinda told a story, embellished it a bit and then it came back and bit her on the arse

            Maybe next time Jacinda won’t be quite so flippant so hopefully shes learnt her lesson

            • Tracey 8.3.1.1.1.1

              OR the media treat her the same as Key and forgive everything fir a smile and wave 😉

            • Anne 8.3.1.1.1.2

              Jacinda told a story, embellished it a bit and then it came back and bit her on the arse.

              BULLSHIT. She did the opposite. It was fancy man Tane who was doing the embellishing and creating false scenarios without a skerrick of evidence. I’m going to keep calling out you rwnjs and telling you to GROW UP and act your age.

      • James 8.3.2

        Why does she “deserve respect”? Is it because she is a woman ? Because she is the prime minister ? Just because you like her ?

        What makes her so deserving ?

        • weka 8.3.2.1

          How about because she is a person?

          • eco maori 8.3.2.1.1

            national money is still influenceing our media this is the way of our world some one need to put a rubber ring on some of those people Ka pai

          • james 8.3.2.1.2

            As is John Key – would you be happy with Jacinda being shown the same amount of respect on this blog as he is?

            • McFlock 8.3.2.1.2.1

              If she presided over the same policies he did, and did the same things he did, hell yes.

            • weka 8.3.2.1.2.2

              people behaving badly generally lose respect. Not a hard concept to understand. I haven’t seen JA do anything that deserves her not being respected (apart from the whole neoliberal capitalist thing of course but then we’d have to be look at all of us at that point).

              • james

                So its OK to call her names along the same line as Key was been called on this blog should I lose respect for her?

                Who is the ultimate arbitrator of behaving badly?

                Do one group get to decide who deserves respect and others do not?

                Can you see my point?

                AND for the record – you will see from my post that I have always commented with respect to the PM.

        • CLEANGREEN 8.3.2.2

          I think the trolls are out today still trying to piss everyone off here, but we will be best ingnoring you all who want to just criticise jacinda but forget the mountains of corrption your National paymasters did eh!

          Best we plan on dismantling the national sopin machine instead of answering to these brind nat trolls eh!!!

  9. Morrissey 9

    GROPERS
    No. 7: Joe Biden

    Amanda Terkel, writing in Huffington Post, described another incident. “The teenage daughter of Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.), for example, visibly cringed and pulled away when Biden whispered in her ear and kissed her on the head.”

    https://stream.org/joe-bidens-disturbing-groping-of-young-girls-and-women/

    “GROPERS” is researched and presented by GroperWatch, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.

    Check out all the gropers so far…
    No.1 George Herbert Walker Bush;

 No. 2 Bill O’Reilly

; No. 3 Al Franken; 
No. 4 Robin Brooke;
 No. 5 Lester Beck; No. 6 Arnold Schwarzenegger

    • mary_a 9.1

      Thanks for keeping this info going Morrissy (9)

      I wonder if our very own (hair) groping pervert’s name will pop up through Gropers sometime soon? He deserves to be named and shamed for assaulting women and young girls! In his touchy feely stroking (hair) capacity, he should be up there with the rest of the “can’t keep their grubby hands to themselves” filth!

      • Morrissey 9.1.1

        I wonder if our very own (hair) groping pervert’s name will pop up through Gropers sometime soon?

        Yes, mary, his name is on my list. Keep an eye out!

    • Ad 9.2

      I’m sure it’s a worthy challenge to kill off a good swathe of creeps and sex criminals from the US glitterati. It really is.

      But let’s not confuse this current binge-purge cycle with breaking global patriarchy.

      For example, the only reason there’s another male President in Zimbabwe today rather than a female is because the armed forces led a revolt against the female incumbent and her youth supporters, who did not have the track record of unreconstructed thuggery that the new guy and his military have. And before everyone clutches their pearls for democracy, being a wife of a President or ex-President is a primary route for a lot of women to achieve political power in this anti-female world.

  10. adam 10

    The twisting and turning of russiagate – or stupid water gate or whatever you want to call it. Is turning into some new form of McCarthyism. When the far right think tanks keep piling in on it, it starts to get worring.

    https://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/terror-cranks-sold-america-russia-panic

  11. adam 11

    The twisting and turning of russiagate – or stupid water gate or whatever you want to call it. Is turning into some new form of McCarthyism. When the far right think tanks keep piling in on it, it starts to get worring.

    https://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/terror-cranks-sold-america-russia-panic

    • Cemetery Jones 11.1

      Haha, nice. Max Blumenthal’s journalistic output must make for some uncomfortable family reunions. I’d love to be a fly on the wall in the Blumenthal household for this weekend’s upcoming thanksgiving dinner – assuming Max hasn’t been permabanned from Sidney’s presence by now…

      • Cemetery Jones 12.1.1

        Yeah I take that site for what it often is, wishful thinking and rumour mongering en-extremis.

        Confirmation bias driven by wishful thinking is one hell of a drug, which is of course why traditional methodology says don’t run stories off one source. However, I’d also point out that the guy you link here cites Snopes and Media Matters an awful lot for someone concerned with source credibility. They’re partisan sites now, you can’t uncross that Rubicon.

        But on the subject of confirmation bias driven by wishful thinking, let’s see how an awful lot of respectable sites who have written on it prolifically are looking when the Steele Dossier’s all done and dusted…

        Now, as to the article I posted. I see the journalist whose tweet this comes from has that blue Jack Dosey approved tick. And it cites and presents the image of a release of data from the Congressional office of compliance. Finally, it cites an MSNBC interview with a Democratic legislator which would seem to confirm the amounts of money spent settling sexual harassment cases.

        So I still wonder, which party will the majority of those lawmakers turn out to be from?

        Also, the byline on the article isn’t Jim Hoft. J’ss’say’n.

        • joe90 12.1.1.1

          The dumbest man on the internet’s site and the organisation employing the hack with the blue Jack Dosey approved tick are partisan AF who’re more willing to accommodate their own side’s abusers. and both sought to discredit the women accusing Moore.

          The robocall reported Tuesday is not the only instance of someone attempting to perpetrate a hoax about the Washington Post‘s reporting. Not long after the original story’s publication, a Twitter account called @umpire43 posted a message claiming that a Post reporter named “Beth” had offered an Alabama woman $1,000 to “accuse Roy Moore.” (The Post‘s story was written by Stephanie McCrummen, Beth Reinhard, and Alice Crites.) The tweet was shared by the far-right website Gateway Pundit and coursed through Moore-supporting social media. It actually wound up on television Friday when the right-wing channel One America News Network read @umpire43’s tweet as the authentic word of a “former Secret Service agent and Navy veteran,” then showed a photo of Reinhard.

          https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/11/14/hoax-robocall-going-around-alabama-claims-washington-post-seeking-information-roy-moore/

          • Cemetery Jones 12.1.1.1.1

            Interesting tack to take, but let’s look at that – one Republican vs. how many Democrats currently accused? And let’s bear in mind the political leanings of all those celebrities and mjournalists currently accused. No wonder the women of the American left are obsessed with rape culture and patriarchy – it reflects the men they associate with so well.

            • joe90 12.1.1.1.1.1

              If the left responded in the way the right has, with silence, deflection and victim blaming, I guess you’d have a point.

              But the left doesn’t respond like the right, the left calls abusers out no matter their political persuasion.

              • Cemetery Jones

                Quite a few republicans, including their house leadership have called for him to drop out of the race. And I recall them being pretty displeased about those access Hollywood Trump revelations. Including high level calls for him to quit his candidacy and allow the RNC to replace him. So by your own argument, yes, I do have a point, thank you.

                • joe90

                  Liberals are sacked quick smart on the strength of the accusations, yet Republicans say Moore is their man and the toddler in chief and his enablers continue to stand by an accused sexual predator running for Senate so they can pass tax cuts.

                  Top White House officials have now made President Trump’s position on Roy Moore absolutely clear: Trump does not believe that the allegations that Moore initiated sexual contact with a 14-year-old — and pursued three other teenagers — should disqualify him from becoming a U.S. senator.

                  This is not how they presented their position, of course. On the Sunday shows, legislative director Marc Short and senior adviser Kellyanne Conway both expressed great shock and horror over the charges. But then each of them carefully carved out a position that appears designed to allow Moore to continue with his run for Senate largely unobstructed and, ultimately, to accept Moore as a senator if he wins, while letting the allegations fade away in a fog of he-said-she-said uncertainty.

                  https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/11/13/ignore-the-spin-trump-and-gop-have-made-a-devils-bargain-with-roy-moore/

  12. greywarshark 13

    You probably saw this earlier – 14/11/2017 – but it is interesting how given an inch business will take a mile (convert to metrics yourself). This business of contracting out leaves so many loose ends floating around.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/98857100/chorus-deeply-uncomfortable-with-volunteers-scheme

    The idea of bringing people out from India who were not to be paid made Chorus uncomfortable..

    .”On investigation, our service company in Nelson, UCG, has advised…[the] intention was to help people who wanted to learn about the industry and see if a career as a fibre technician was one they wanted to pursue further,” spokesman Nathan Beaumount said.” …. (Thin, very.)

    ‘UCG [Universal Communications Group] said via a three-line emailed response it was aware that Sunwin Technologies had a voluntary program, aligned with the Employers and Manufacturers Association (EMA) guidelines.’.. (Which were??)

    “To our understanding based on Sunwin’s feedback, they have followed the guidelines as stipulated by the EMA,” general manager operations, Paul Trotman said.
    Attempts to track Sunwin Technologies were not successful.” (BAU)
    ‘The Ministry of Business, Employment and Innovation would be making further enquiries.’ (BAU)

    The commenters were highly disgusted about this.
    Aliena -“intention was to help people who wanted to learn about the industry and see if a career as a fibre technician was one they wanted to pursue further,” What complete and utter rubbish Chorus….

    RBM“……. had a voluntary program, aligned with the Employers and Manufacturers Association (EMA) guidelines.” Obviously this is a widespread rort!

    Squire – visionstream are the same, bring people over on a education visa, set them up as a owner operator, take a cut out of their wages to pay for the business startup, work them, exhaust their money and send them back with nothing.

    Happyatwork – happyatwork
    I have worked (For a sub contractor) for several of chorus service partners including UCG. Chorus now prefers service partners who have sub contractors and work for coded work (rather than staff earning wages), and with the large amount of foreign workers, chorus has been able to change the rules, requiring these sub-contractors to do more work for the same code (value of work).

    This has resulted in many NZers leaving the industry, as the service partners can just pass on the extra work without increasing the codes, because they know there are more foreign workers / sub-contractors who will just replace them.

    we now have:
    1.The Government help pay for the UFB rollout with the taxpayers money
    2.Chorus complain they need more workers to help
    3. The government change the immigration rules to support
    4. Chorus drives done the install cost and “passes” it down to the coal face workers.
    5. New Zealanders leave the industry
    6. go back to step 2.

    So our own money (Taxpayers) is destroying our jobs and reasonable standard of living!!

    7 days ago
    napmannz
    We also had bad experience with one of the subcontractors who rented the four bed house next door and promptly put twelve guys in the house. We ended up with about seven large work vans and another five cars in a small grove causing massive disruption to the neighborhood. When the property manager finally was able to shift them a large clean up was required with the number of people in the house putting a strain on the house. Talking with others they also had similar troubles in different suburbs with the same company. As others have said the cost push is downward leaving mostly foreign labor that will do the work at below market rates.

    6 days ago
    BJRBJR
    Shame on you Chorus, and what is our new Minister of Labour going to do about it. These workers have been here for years now. No or little English and the standard of installs in the homes is disgusting and when you complain and request it is fixed…. Nothing! A friend recently had the fiber box put into a brand new home, the contractor put the large screws straight through the wall in the other room. When this was shown to them they just said call Chorus and left…. Another story from a plumber who was called out after-hours as the non English speaking workers had cut through a water pipe, and begged him not to call there boss as they would be fired!

    More New Zealand businesses IN NZ: 22/11/2017

    Supermarkets owned by NZs as a co-operative making payments to its members,
    and the money largely remaining in NZ. Sounds all right to me! (Think PaknSave and New World.)

    During the past 12 months Foodstuffs South Island posted sales worth $2.9 billion, an increase of $96m or 3.3 per cent over the previous year. The growth occurred in a period of low inflation and was attributed to the opening of three new stores and higher market share of existing outlets.

    The gross profit was $341m with $262m returned to members of the co-operative.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/99042577/foodstuffs-invests-in-new-south-island-supermarkets

  13. james 14

    “New Zealand, An Economic Success Story, Loses Its Way”

    Forbes on Jacinda.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jareddillian/2017/11/20/new-zealand-an-economic-success-story-loses-its-way/#598f15d15f7a

    Not exactly a glowing endorsement.

    • Puckish Rogue 14.1

      Evil right wingers

      Just thought I’d get in first 🙂

    • Grey Area 14.2

      Typical neoliberal drivel from a free market fanatic. We should be concerned what a former trader thinks about us? “Economic success story” for who? Limited economic measures to equate with the success label while we have seen degradation in our environment, mental health, health system, social welfare, corporate and social service standards and accountability, and increases in poverty and corruption. Success story? Yeah right

    • Cinny 14.3

      A foreigner, ex wall st (like the pm who quit) is unhappy that we’ve changed/are changing the rules for foreign ownership and immigration is pissed off about it.

      Oh my word, what a freaking surprise, no more investment properties in NZ for him, of course he’s pissed off about it and writing about it.

    • Ad 14.4

      Seems a fraction early for a critique.

      Growth forecast is excellent.
      Government forecast surplus of $4.1billion.
      Headline unemployment lower than 5%.

      Maybe, with the state having now so little effect on us other than in welfare and infrastructure to changing New Zealand at all, just maybe any economic downturn will be due to markets correcting?

      Just like markets did last time.

      At immense social damage to human beings.

      My main correction to the article is that foreign investors should give us a miss for a while, as we start to support local investors.

    • Tracey 14.5

      It has been a month…

    • Bearded Git 14.6

      no bias from Forbes there then James (sarc)….maybe they should stick to listing the rich bastards as serious journalism is clearly beyond them

    • Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

      Forbes and other such institutions keep telling us that we should continue following their preferred neo-liberal ideology despite all the damage that it’s done to our society.

      Yeah, probably not worth taking their advice in that respect.

    • beatie 14.8

      Yes James, you and yours are doing just fine. So fuck the rest of us who aren’t under this system. Selfish, greedy etc.

  14. Johan 15

    What ever happened to the economic trickle-down theory or was that just for the benefit of certain New Zealanders?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1

      It still has a large number of witless dupes who believe it: Maninthemiddle, Baba Yaga, 3Stepstotheright, Groundhog, Acrophobic: there’s one for a start.

  15. Tracey 16

    Will this ruling help the guts in their case against Katherine Rich, Carrick Graham etc… especially the playing the man not the organisation bit?

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/11/21/62525/online-criticisms-cost-man-100000?platform=hootsuite

  16. Baba Yaga:

    In Slavic folklore, Baba Yaga /ˈbɑːbə jəˈɡɑː/[1] (Russian: Баба-яга, Bulgarian: Баба Яга, Polish: Baba Jaga) is a supernatural being (or one of a trio of sisters of the same name) who appears as a deformed and/or ferocious-looking witch. Baba Yaga flies around in a mortar, wields a pestle, and dwells deep in the forest in a hut usually described as standing on chicken legs (or sometimes a single chicken leg).[2] Baba Yaga may help or hinder those that encounter or seek her out. She sometimes plays a maternal role, and also has associations with forest wildlife. According to Vladimir Propp’s folktale morphology, Baba Yaga commonly appears as either a donor or villain, or may be altogether ambiguous.

  17. OnceWasTim 18

    Christ Almighty in a bubble!
    the Projek
    Let’s here it for JaiJai

  18. CLEANGREEN 19

    I see that Steven Joyce is beating his gums again! – trying to cover over his entrails of that $11.7 billiion dollar hole. Then going hard pushing Labour for their financial figures eh!

    While I see this as a “diversion” ploy to keep labour busy on the job of keeping the books straight instead!

    Labour should now be going on the defensive investigating the nine years of financial reporting they did to find some ‘anomolies’ in their own shaddy books as there will be several holes and ‘kickbacks’ to keep their supporters happy at the expense of all of us on the lower runggs of the ladder eh!

    Also Steven Joyce and hiis crims are probably feeling the heat right now with Winston preparing his case gfor the 7th December ‘discovery’ in court.

    I guess legal papers have already been served on Joyce, Brownlee, Bennett and English so they and the media are feeling the heat to as several jouralists are involved with Winston’s case too.

    Maybe that’s why the media are treating the Government like shit now eh!!!

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