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Blazer (Friday): What qualities do you admire in a leader Gezza?
I asked for a few hours to think about that one before replying. I’ve had that time now (n between some rellies joining me for a few days in a working bee i n & around Pookden Manor) & I’ve decided to frame my response around the qualities I think a good PM should have – as that was the context of our discussion .
Others please feel free to critique my list, or add or replace anything they think is missing, or they have a better “quality” for.
………………………..
A Good PM
Intelligent. Able to understand complex issues & identify constructive solutions to problems, both individually & when working collectively with Cabinet, caucus, departmental advisers & industry experts.
Good communicator. Always clear. Circumspect when the situation requires it (eg for reasons of national security, diplomacy, or policy not finalised yet) but not vague or waffly.
Good people skills. Relates easily & well to people of all backrounds. Knows how to spot talent (intelligence, people skills, capacity for learning and hard work) among caucus members. Matches colleagues’ abilities to portfolios well.
Sets clear vision & strategic goals for Government, so that Ministers know what their departments – and THEY – are expected to achieve, & by when.
Sets clear vision & strategic goals for New Zealand as a society & as an independent country with its own unique national goals, priorities, & interdependencies, & international relationships.
Good People Manager. Recognises & rewards good performance by MPs by promoting them; rewards persistent bad performance or clear lack of ability by demoting MPs or not appointing them to important portfolios.
Consultative, but also decisive when Cabinet or Caucus reach an impasse & a decision MUST be taken – even if that decision subsequently turns out to be a wrong one.
Tolerant of Cabinet Ministers’ & backbench MP’s mistakes – within sensible (common sense) limits! Nobody’s perfect. Recognises this when things go wrong for Party MPs within the Parliamentary working environment, but ensures that lessons are learned.
Strong. Does not shy from sacking Ministers or taking other disciplinary measures when these are clearly required because of MP foolishness or grossly inappropriate / unlawful behaviour.
Hi Gezza, I'm not sure of the context you were asked to define Leadership but having read your list i am wondering, in our lifetime, do you think any other PM has had more of those qualities than our current one? I know others will disagree but it seems to me that Ardern fits most, if not all, of those qualities.
I came up with this list based on what qualities, from my observations over my lifetime, a good chairperson of a board, AND a good CEO (private or government) has. Because, imo, a good PM essentially combines those two roles.
Sometimes a good COTB & a good CEO has the intelligence to appoint others who have some qualities they lack to fill the gaps as their trusted advisers. Helen Clark did this with H2, for example.
I didn’t try & write it around a particular PM, but from what I remember, Norman Kirk comes close meeting most of those. Jacinda Ardern, I’m not quite so sure. Judith Collins however doesn’t get within a bull’s roar of meeting most of those requirements, in my view.
Gezza: you've expressed your disenchantment with Jacinda Ardern before, and here, it seems, you've set up a format for criticising NZ Prime Ministers; is your hope that commenters here will similarly share their anxieties about Jacinda?
I was pleased to read the response from Red Blooded One.
“Gezza: you’ve expressed your disenchantment with Jacinda Ardern before, and here, it seems, you’ve set up a format for criticising NZ Prime Ministers;”
G: No I haven’t. I’ve set out the qualities I personally think a good PM has. Jacinda Ardern has some of those qualities. Or, at least, sometimes she displays them. Helen Clark has many of those qualities. John Key had some, but not others & I learned not to trust Key.
I believe I’m a more dispassionate observer than you are when it comes to such issues, as I’m not politically tribal, Robert, like you are.
Reminds me: One obvious quality I completely missed out & I’m now adding adding. Honesty.
“is your hope that commenters here will similarly share their anxieties about Jacinda?”
G: No. You should know me well enuf by now. If that is what I meant, that is what I would have said. When I post, I say what I mean, & I mean what I say. I’m always happy to clarify if questioned, so thank you for at least asking that question. Don’t try and read my mind, Robert. You are no better a mind-reader than I am. And I can’t read minds.
“I was pleased to read the response from Red Blooded One.”
Your original post was clear, and thought provoking. FWIW:
Intelligent: Undoubtedly
Good communicator: This has been her strength; in recent months there is a risk it is becoming her weakness. An example: the proposed hate speech legislation.
Good people skills: Yes to your first point. Not so much to your second.
Sets clear vision & strategic goals (etc): No. I sense at times there is no overriding vision beyond slogans, but to be fair that could be because of the nature of our political system (e.g. in the first term she was in a coalition with a party that she is not ideologically comfortable with).
Good people manager: Jury's out. In fact this one is hard to gauge unless you are close to the workings of her caucus.
Consultative but also decisive: Again that's difficult without being an insider.
Tolerant of Cabinet Ministers’ & backbench MP’s mistakes/Strong: I've combined these. At times she's been too tolerant. Phil Twyford, David Clark and Clare Curran both got too much latitude, and right now Poto Williams and Kris Faafoi are being given latitude I'm not sure they deserve. But I'll say this – the PM may be hamstrung if she senses a lack of depth in her caucus. In other words a perceived weakness in this category may in fact reflect strengths in others as she seeks to balance the work needing doing with the talent available.
"The best way to handle people given latitude is to give them none of course."
I assume that's sarcasm. I run an international business, and I give my team a lot of latitude, but in return my expectations are clear, as are the consequences of non performance.
"What were the excesses of latitudes Ardern gave David Clark and Clare Curran?"
It took too long for her to sack them, in a nutshell. And she prevaricated. On the On 7/9/18 she said Curran's job was 'not on the line', yet accepted her resignation just hours later.
They were going off on tangents and not team players add a level of incompetency too.No govt either National or Labour are all of the same competency just like Key and Clark they pushed out liabilities.
To also show that those who didn't stick to the team plan consequences are coming .
I felt sure you were meaning the discussion to focus on Jacinda Ardern, Gezza, but if you mean us to discuss PM's from the past as well, may I ask you about your statement:
"I learned not to trust Key"
You trusted Key initially, then learned not to trust him?
For what reasons did you find him trustworthy, initially?
Sorry Robert. Not really interested in thinking about & then commenting further on Key. Projects to do at Pookden Manor & a perfect, sunny, wind-free mornng for doing them. Getting out there and into them while I’m still able to. Later, dude. 👍🏼
Key had me thinking finally an honest politican till about 4 months out from the 2008 election ,then I remember my bullshit detector starting screeching, I had know real political leaning back then .
No. Deeply pissed off at this incrementalist wet bus ticket neoliberal status quo gutless Blairite pack of weasels who are happy for homeowners/ "investors" to get billions of free $$$$$$$ in unearned capital gains but are like Scrooge when it comes to helping the poor.
Yes. I also liked your list of qualities needed for a good PM Gezza. You will have spent a lot of time putting it together so good on you.
I also agree with RBO that Jacinda Ardern reflects all those qualities. Of course she isn't perfect and she would be the first to agree. For example, I find her a bit waffly sometimes and have been known to tell her as much while watching her on TV. 😡
The largely misogynistic memes that her opponents have tried to pin on her… she's a lightweight who doesn't know what she is doing and, she has no control over her ministers etc., and they have no policies is so much hogwash. Unfortunately there are people whose memory cells are non existent and they fall for the nonsense.
“i am wondering, in our lifetime, do you think any other PM has had more of those qualities than our current one?”….really, are you serious?
Apart from Covid, Ardern has been the most ineffectual and pointless Labour PM in my life time, and that really is saying something..though to be fair she has been great for anyone who profits from banks, landowners, landlords and corporate monopoly owners and their shareholders…turns out she is great at talking, shit at actually doing anything…you only need to observe her (complete lack of) action on climate change to understand this plain fact.
Jacinda Ardern: "my generation's nuclear free moment"….get the fuck out of here!
I listened to a podcast with Murray Bolton recently. Bolton, who is 73, said he had lived through some very good Labour governments (he named the Clark government specifically). His opinion – this is the worst government in his lifetime. Of any political makeup.
Gypsy, I have to confess I said Murray Who? So I looked him up and I am now wondering why I should pay his 'reckons', his opinions, any more weight than, say, my own?
I'm 72 and have seen some ten different governments of various lengths of tenure, and my opinion is different from this 'rich-lister businessman /entrepreneur.'
One of our downslides in critical thinking being shown more clearly recently is our credence in celebrities, as if being famous gives us more intellect or specialised knowledge, when all it does is feed our confirmation bias. I bet, Gypsy, you gave this citation to listen to Murray Who? because he believes what you believe.
I ask, rather, what specialised knowledge or intellect he brings that I should pay attention, and even defer to?
This is on my mind because I have had to run a critique as part of my position in an organisation of a racist, misogynist, extremist ranting letter which had been published with a long CV of the author of the rant. The purpose of the CV was to add weight to this man's opinions, when it did nothing to show any expertise or specialised knowledge.
Funnily enough, this ranter was also a CEO and company founder, like Murray Who? All it did for me was to confirm my incipient confirmation bias about the predilection of famous persons (especially CEOs and business founders) to pontificate about things they have but lay knowledge of. Lucky I'm not famous, eh?
Murray Bolton is a highly successful businessman. He has also taken on the power of the government in court and won, and is now helping other kiwi's stuck in the insane MIQ system get home. And you are?
Doesn't mean he is right, a good guy or has any other admirable traits though.
His reckons are as good as anyone else's and no more.
This uncritical admiration and views that people have something of worth to give the nation because they have got/acquired lots of money is a less than desirable trait.
It seems to be more prevalent (eg the people who admired John Key because he had worked in the money markets) and this is sad as NZ was, in times past, a country that it was said 'Jack's as good as his master.
How does that qualify him to pronounce on what is/was the best or worst government in 60-70 years? To pronounce so certainly that we are directed to a podcast to be enlightened!
Who I am gives me no more right to pronounce upon the worth of 10+ governments more than any other reasonably well informed citizen.
That was my point. Murray Bolton from the evidence you have given, his age and business experience, and ability to pay for and win a court judgement is not an experienced politician, historian or political scientist whose measured judgement upon the relative worth of 60 years of NZ government can be trusted.
I do know that I would be looking at factors such as financial, health and employment statistics, I'd be looking at foreign policy, housing and poverty rates. I'd be researching quality of laws passed, quality of life and average income, environment and social issues, treatment of minority groups, the penal system and the use of state powers.
At least I'd be arguing from a position of some credible knowledge.
I've not heard the podcast. We were not given a reference. Does Mr Bolton traverse any or all of those areas for ten governments?
So it comes down to my other point. Why do we so accept the opinions of the famous, the celebrities, those successful in one aspect of life, be it business, acting or singing and promote them above those whose knowledge and experience is directly applicable?
"How does that qualify him to pronounce on what is/was the best or worst government in 60-70 years?"
The same as it qualifies you to disagree.
"Why do we so accept the opinions of the famous, the celebrities, those successful in one aspect of life, be it business, acting or singing and promote them above those whose knowledge and experience is directly applicable?"
Who are these people "whose knowledge and experience is directly applicable?" The politicians themselves? The opinion of successful people such as Bolton has value because they are the ones doing the hard yards to make NZ successful. They employ people, pay taxes. They lead organisations at the coalface of the very problems politicians create.
"My issue was whether I should be persuaded by the reckons of a businessman, whether anyone should be persuaded by the reckons of such folk."
I don't think you should be. My view is we should take into account a range of opinions from people we respect, even if we don't always agree with them.
Yes I have come across these types of comments where outrageous things, way outside their expertise are said and then the press (often from a press release) states XXXX YYYY was president of the Waikikamoocau Sand Fertiliser Works and owns the local Ford dealership. Because of this somehow they feel their opinions seem to be worth more than Joseph Blow who has a degree in English Tudor History and is being house husband to three children, or Mrs Taitama who runs the Kohanga Reo, or any person in the street. The NZ cringe really.
The press really should be asking sometimes, and your expertise is…….
There was a radio station recently that got some OTT letters and handled them very well on air.
I usually say 'I give nothing to racism, sexism'. etc. This puzzles people sometimes and gives me the chance to explain my view that what they are saying may be racist, sexist etc.
Good luck with the critique. I find looking at the HR Act is good to start with. Pretty simple Act and stark about its impact.
My observation of the past 4 years is that there is too much deference to the Public Service and other advice, and not enough going with what Labour actually believes (think policy platforms etc). It may or may not work, but Little's rejection of the advice and instead opting to lead Cabinet in disestablishing all DHBs was a welcome departure from that in my view.
Add Chris Hipkins to that list. He has stopped the money basis of Education, and managed to keep things intact during 4 rounds of covid.
Kris Fafoi has changed the credit trap significantly, and has slowed the "cheap labour" supply. That has not endeared him to many.
Megan Woods has beavered away at housing, using her people skills to get the opposition onside.
Jacinda Ardern has demoted Ministers who failed their brief or did not live by the morality and honesty expected.
Gezza does not like Ardern and is carefully leaving out qualities we have noted throughout her tenure.
Relationships with other Leaders, recognised by her peers.
Crisis management. Both short and longterm. She has excelled in her managment of the following in the last 4 years.
Fruit fly incursion, Micoplasma Bovis, Kauri dieback, Myrtle Rust, an erruption and the sad outcome, Two terror attacks, Covid 19 and now Delta, plus dealing with the problems of 501s being sent here by Dutton. The other big issues are climate change inequality and being a good Treaty partner, Trade and controlling the huge influence of runaway tech giants and their Algorithms.
The current memes have changed from "It is Winston telling her what to do" to she is "Going to resign and take a better paying overseas position"
Her very few flashes of anger and disparagement born out of the silly comments from the opposition, can be understood. Generally she is patient and answers questions openly, saying she will find out/come back if needing more detail to answer. Her clear full answers where she heads off journalists' loaded questions is a lesson in control. People generally said they were amazed at her tolerance.
This is a Pandemic. It is not over, and we are finding how to live with it while keeping our little boat afloat. A great number of people voted for this Government. Some have wavered in the face of the necessary decisions to keep us safe, and others are threatened by the coming changes, so they may also have doubts. The facts show an amazing balancing act.
Qualities not on the original list.
Honest, openminded, people centered, thoughtful, strength of character able to rise to the occasion able to face problems squarely and plan a way forward able to hold the respect and loyalty of those she is leading.
She clearly loves NZ. I hope she is PM for as long as possible, as given all those extra problems things are bad but by overseas standards more than acceptable with big efforts being made to turn many problems round.
Just my not important opinion. Oh and a disclaimer. I am a Life Labour Party member, and I am proud of the Labour legacy.
Congratulations on the life membership, that's fantastic recognition. I'm also a Labour Party member (VFL) and volunteer (did 5 years as campaign and LEC treasurer) but not at that level!
Hipkins' work on the Education System is an excellent example of a minister pushing past the public service advice, and possible 3 Waters could be the next big example of that. And that was a good reminder that good work has been done and continues, and it can be a long slog on intractable issues. Perhaps my frustration is that some issues have been beyond the political will of the voters rather than cabinet, like redesigning the tax system.
Gezza does not like Ardern and is carefully leaving out qualities we have noted throughout her tenure.
Neither of those assertions is true, Patricia. Another epic fail mind-reader. I do not pretend to know what you think or how you think. Please do not think you can do that with me. You can’t. You are not me. You do not see thru my eyes.
I do not adore Ardern, like some do, & see some faults or shortcomings. It is incorrect – in fact it’s false – to say I do not like her & imply that is my entire assessment.
I have NOT carefully left out qualities you think she has that should be in the list. False again.
Imo, Ardern has many of the qualities I came up with. My mission was not to write them around any particular PM, but to come with my ideal list, from my own perspective. Then see who seemed to meet all or most of them.
Those qualities are all mostly “transferable”. That skill set could almost be used in an authoritarian administration or…cough…a neo liberal state like New Zealand with a monetarist consensus among main parties. You know–free as possible in and out flow of capital, deregulation, managerialist culture, penetration of public infrastructure by private capital…that kind of thing.
What is missing is a requirement for a class left political understanding, analysis and action plan.
Certainly Gezza. Just from my perspective who needs highly efficient, even likeable leaders, that end up reinforcing capitalist class power via the neo liberal state and legislation?
It is time for a referendum on monetarism–it has never been put to the vote–not when Roger slipped it in, and Ruth aggressively continued TINA–because for the main parties structural neo liberalism is the default cultural and legislative setting via Reserve Bank Act, State Sector Act etc.
To have a referendum you have to be able to ask a clear question that can, normally, be answered with a YES or a NO. It is possible to have more than two answers but they still have to be in a simple form. ie I choose A or I choose B or I choose C.
Are all these qualities of equal value or are they different.
For example, to me, John Key scores very highly in the strong category whereas Jacinda Ardern doesn't however Jacinda scores highly on the clear vision but John does not
So do you have a ranking for what qualities are higher or lower or what qualities you're willing to 'let go' if the other qualities are there
Also, in your opinion, how would Bill English gone as leader if he'd had a proper go of it
how would Bill English gone as leader if he'd had a proper go of it
As leader of the Nats for 3 years, including 10 months as PM, English did have "a proper go of it"; personally I think English, Bridges, Muller and Kaye would all be doing a better job of leading the Nats than the incumbent, but that's not saying much, is it?
I listed them in no particular order orher than when they popped into my head & I wrote them down, Pucky.
I haven’t considered weighting them, or assigning them a priority, because I see them as a desirable set & see no useful purpose in trying to assign one quality as of more value than another when the caucus, & the national situations, can change at each eiection & throw any such attempt up in the air.
If you want to make claims about people (commenters, public figures, people in the news), then please back up. You can express opinions but once it crosses into details about people or events etc, you have to make the argument and support it with evidence.
From the Policy,
This includes making assertions that you are unable to substantiate with some proof (and that doesn’t mean endless links to unsubstantial authorities) or even argue when requested to do so. Such comments may be deleted without warning or one of the alternatives below may be employed. The action taken is completely up to the moderator who takes it.
The reason for that is to keep the debate robust. When people have links to understand a comment in context, the debate improves. Likewise when people explain their thinking.
Occasional educational short bans are likely from me over the next few months as I don’t want to be spending my time chasing people up on this. If you find your comments aren’t appearing, check the Replies tab to see if one of the mods has replied to you. If you can’t see the Replies tab, ask for help.
CV has gone off on a self imposed exile. Fallen a long way from a former Labour party candidate, into the Trump/Antivax rabbit hole. Sad to see a capable mind fall prey to nihilism
Sorry to hear that CV has fallen down the Trump/Antivax rabbit hole. It was an inevitable trajectory.
Start believing one pro fascist far right narrative and it is only a small step to the next one, and the next after that.
so the grandswill organised protests got less vehicles going through our cities than a bunch of boy racers on a casual night out . thoughts on how huge the mother of all protests wasnt?
my favourite "camera angles" case was Prebble doing a live piece to camera for ACT (yes, it was that long ago). It was in Hagley Park, for breakfast tv ISTR.
Anyway, Prebble was in front, and behind him were half a dozen or so supporters with a huge number of balloons. Sure enough, a slight gust of wind momentarily parted the balloons and through the crack there was nobody for at least a hundred yards, save one person in the distance looking vaguely towards the camera as their dog sniffed around a tree.
Hope this doesn't cause inadvertant offence to anyone, but I spotted it in my feed on a very rare visit to my Farcebook page last night & I thought it was funny….
If he wasn't then, current law change proposals may change that.
Freedom of expression is one of the primary tenets of liberty in Canada, but that may soon change.
Trans activists are cleverly constructing the legal censorship of those of us who still dare to name reality. At the forefront of this charge is trans activist Morgane Oger, who became infamous for convincing the City of Vancouver to defund Canada’s last remaining “female only” rape crisis centre. The Morgane Oger Foundation has been lobbying the Canadian government to regulate the internet, to curb, so-called ‘hate speech’, and on May 16, 2019 delivered testimony to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.
…Perhaps trans activist and professional dominatrix Hailey Heartless described the situation best when he tweeted: “The difference between us is, women like me get podiums, radio interviews, book deals, meetings with lawmakers and national audiences, women like you get your little niche newsletter and your slowly disappearing ‘safe spaces’.” Although he was mocking us, he was right. And once trans rights lobbyists, like Morgane Oger, are consulted by the Canadian government for their input on what to ban specifically, those newsletters and our voices will be lost.
It confused me. I still can't get my head around things like this (I probably never will)
Then it just made me sad, not sad like going to the cupboard and going to grab a biscuit then remembering you're on a diet sad, but sad as in this is how the worlds of 1984 or The Handmaids Tale begin.
As for Jordon Peterson…..I am glad expresses the opinions he does (mostly). A lot of it I don't agree with it, some I do.
Watched him interviewed by a feminist Helen (sorry forgotten her name) journalist.
I think its good he raises stuff about men and their contribution and service and how its men who die in wars, who CS more and who are murdered more.
But I think neither of them stressed how female biology has disadvantaged us. We are phyically weaker and we have time out for child birth and mothering (I know things are changing with this, but that is why women have more rights now).
Also most men are wired to pursue sex with females (biologically for survival of the species) but within this men have viewed women as sex objects for their gratification. Obviously this isn't the whole picture. But an importatnt one that contributes to inequality in the sexes.
'Also most men are wired to pursue sex with females (biologically for survival of the species) but within this men have viewed women as sex objects for their gratification. Obviously this isn't the whole picture. But an importatnt one that contributes to inequality in the sexes.'
Hi Molly, I came across this excerpt from a longer video. In it Africa Brooke says how she had decided what to think about Peterson, and that gets 'unpacked'.
I understand JP can get on people's nerves. I think this clip is worthwhile and gets very touching near the end when JP reveals the impact 'the haters' had on him.
Since my awareness of this issue (BDMRR) was raised by y'all here on TS I have been reading, learning and getting informed.
I am frustratingly not going to engage in the discussion as there are quite a few threads intertwined and I much rather korero in the flesh where subtleties can be expressed. I can see integrity on both sides of the issue but get turned off when debate goes to the extreme end to make a point. Most of the extremities come from overseas.
Also, as McFlock demonstrates below, chatter gets shut down quick or bogged down in petty point scoring.
It's not like Ta-Nehisi Coates is a run of the mill "hater". If "one of the foremost black intellectuals" is calling you out on something, best have a wee think.
He may be "one of the foremost black intellectuals" but hes certainly not a good comic book writer, this guy on the other hand is, and before you put on your big boy pants, Just Some Guy is black and Bisexual (since labels seem important to you), the first youtube clip is from 2018 just to let you know
Dunno about any of that, already watched one damned video of not much today, surprised I bothered with that.
The point I made was that if someone one describes as being a foremost intellectual satirises one's material (and more specifically how one's core audience recieves it), then some self reflection is in order. Peterson obviously respects Coates. Possibly should reflect upon the criticism, then.
The sad fact is there hasn't been an intellectual argument capable of supporting Marxism since Marx; and his own arguments have been disproved worldwide ever since his were made.
Yet Jordan Peterson is the one who is uneducated about him……
The point was that a supposedly deep thinker turned up to a debate using only a cursory reading of the communist manifesto to discuss marxism in general.
I'm not defending Marx, Žižek did that. Quite competently. Maybe he'd have had a more difficult task if his opponent had done his homework and actually knew the subject area at hand.
The usual transparent tactic when anyone points out marxism's manifest, catastrophic failures is to pretend 'oh that wasn't real communism'.
Peterson responds that when someone says that, what they're really claiming is 'that if I was in charge of the revolution, it would have all turned out differently'.
Which of course is nothing but a monumental conceit.
Also it may usefully inform us about where each is likely to go too far – due to a distorted overweighting of their primary motive. Conservatives become tyrants when driven by a sense of ‘purity’ engage in race supremacy and jingoist fascism. Liberals when their desire for ‘freedom’ becomes a repudiation of society and manifests as libertarianism and neo-liberal economic theories. And socialists are prone to stepping over the ‘caring’ line when they promote political theories intended to impose equality of outcomes – marxism and it’s modern derivatives in particular.
Capitalism is not complicated – it requires no appeal to an arcane theory that can only be understood by the high priests of the cult. It's a rather simple set of economic tools and ideas relating to business formalism, rule of law and markets. Neloliberalism on the other hand was the stupid theory that these useful tools would work if you applied them to everything.
OK so in short words you might understand – derivatives are a risk mitigation tool. Within limits they work very well, outside of those limits they don't.
Like say double entry book-keeping, the technical details take a bit of learning, but the basic idea is simple enough to understand. Unless of course you're determined not to.
Otherwise I see you've completely failed to address the substance of my comment and wandered off down a path of your own bewilderment.
@ arkie and In Vino, you might find some ideas of retired clinical psychologist Daniel helpful in regard to understanding scorn – I did.
In the meantime, I am trusting that you will evaluate my ideas on the basis of their relevance, reasonableness, and fit with your own experience. Readers have the right to disagree. I only ask that you do so thoughtfully and respectfully – for your sake as much as for mine. This would involve resisting two opposing tendencies. First would be a fault-finding dismissal based on a close-minded adherence to your preconceived notions. Second, and just as problematic, would be a total, unquestioning buy-in, so that you can apply the suggestions without questioning or critical thinking. I hope that you find a middle ground between these two extremes, so that you can continue exploring these matters in a spirit of curiosity, adventure, and awe. And if you like, keep me informed on your progress with this quest.
Boundaries. Marxism takes the good idea that the extremes of wealth and poverty should be moderated – and goes too far by demanding equal outcomes. Wherever and whenever this boundary is stepped over the actual result has been catastrophe.
You wouldn't suggest a 'reasoned discussion' with the ChCh mass murderer – and he only killed 51 people. Why would I engage with an ideology that directly, openly requires the violent eradication of entire classes of 'oppressors'?
Our definitions are not aligned which makes a conversation unproductive. I outlined my working definitions here.
Capitalism, conservatism and socialism normally co-exist in a balance in all modern societies. Some tilt more toward one pole than the other. However:
When the idea of liberal capitalism – which is essentially the actions of the individual within a market context – is taken too far you get neo-liberalism or libertarianism.
When the idea of conservatism – which is essentially about making what is known and trusted work in a stable fashion – is taken too far you get fascism, race purity and tyranny.
When the idea of socialism – which is about moderating the extremes of wealth and poverty, and protecting the most vulnerable – is taken too far into imposing equal outcomes you get communism and all the cultist woke variations it’s morphed into.
Using these rough definitions, ordinary conservatism, capitalism and socialism are within the bounds of acceptable political discourse. The others are demonstrably worthless ideologies.
You would be taken seriously if you actually knew what Communism is, or read what Marx really wrote. Instead of mindlessly repeating the US idea, that Communists are any Government they don't like.
Hint. A State that has a Dictatorship, and Nomenclatura., is by definition, not Communist.
Any more than another Dictatorship that claimed to be Socialist, while murdering millions, was Socialist.
Even more funny. When it is noted that "Communist" China pulled millions out of poverty more recently. Your fellow parrots start saying. "China is Capitalist, not Communist".
I am a supporter of a Democratic mixed economy. But note that Marx was largely correct. Though much of his analysis was the product of his time, it is still one of the best descriptions of Capitalisms working. We are seeing the results of the Marxist theory "diminishing rate of return on capital” in the developed countries now. It is only revolution or the threat of revelation that removes the Kleptocracy. Such as the UK after WW2. Where they started looking after returning soldiers and workers for fear of becoming Russia.
Not Marx's wishes. A description of reality.
Revolutions tend to end up with the most violent anti democratic and ruthless arseholes on top, which is why they I certainly am against them. Some circumstances, such as Batista’s Cuba, Czarist Russia, pre revolution France,, for example, make life so bad for so many that it becomes inivitable.
The US one is a good example. Resulting in a Constitution of "checks and balances" which ensure that "The Masses" will never have Democratic power over the "elite". Little different from Soviet Russia or China. Except the USA does propaganda, fooling the populace, better. As your repeating it proves.
You would be taken seriously if you actually knew what Communism is, or read what Marx really wrote.
You didn't need to read the ChCh's mass murderer's 'manifesto' to know it was a worthless pile of shit. So why the fuck would anyone take Marx's driveling nonsense seriously>
' Marx increasingly became preoccupied with an attempt to understand the contemporary capitalist mode of production, as driven by a remorseless pursuit of profit, whose origins are found in the extraction of surplus value from the exploited proletariat. The precise role of morality and moral criticism in Marx’s critique of contemporary capitalist society is much discussed, and there is no settled scholarly consensus on these issues. His understanding of morality may be related to his account of ideology, and his reflection on the extent to which certain widely-shared misunderstandings might help explain the stability of class-divided societies'- excerpt Stanford Eof Philosophy
Yes I do that Aussie cunt an injustice – he only managed 51 dead. Marx and Engels however openly justified and advocated for the eradication of entire classes of people.
Can't find a citation to back up your claim. Eh. Redlogix? Because, as we know, there isn't one.
Pontificating on "what Marx said" without actually bothering to find out what he really said, when it has shaped so much thought on the "Political economy" including influencing a whole lot of Economists, including the ones that disagreed with him, such as Milton Freidman, shows a refusal to inform yourself.
Like commenting on Western philosophy while ignoring the bible.
Commenting on modern economics while ignoring Marx, is failing to educate yourself.
How many people have been murdered in the name of Jesus Christ, who, if he really existed, only advocated for violently overturning money lenders tables?
Marx in his final and culminating paragraph of the The Communist Manifesto stated:
"The Communists openly declare that their ends can only be attained by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains.
The ambiguity of the word 'forcible' was not in question for the three of Marx's most prominent followers who all engaged in violent revolutions aimed at eradicating those they declared to be the 'oppressor' class.
Weasel all you like – the stack of bodies still buried every metre or so under the Highway of Bones is proof enough for any sane person.
If you had been a serf or factory worker in Czarist Russia. I think you would have been rather keen on “removing the oppressor”.
Unfortunately replaced with another. Would you have supported anyone who “violently removed” Stalin?
Which sort of confirms what Marx said about the History of class struggle.
We will forget about the fact that the US “highway of bones” must be getting in numbers close to Stalin by now. But they are mostly Brown people, so, who cares.
Your denial of the fucking obvious is contemptible. Unlike you I did get to travel over that grim Highway I mentioned above – on the way to a gold processing project in the region. You on the other hand cannot even bring yourself to name it.
The last para of the paramount document in all of marxist literature calls for a forcible overthrow of the social order – an instruction carried out to the fucking letter by actual marxist revolutionaries and you pretend it has another meaning.
Your conflation of the actions of 20th century dictators with the readily accessible writings of 19th century political activists is not only disingenuous but also inaccurate, as you yourself have demonstrated.
Don’t get me wrong: regimes that took the name “communist” – from Stalin’s to Pol Pot’s – committed unspeakable, monstrous crimes. But for the right, a revival of interest in Marx’s pre-Stalinist vision of communism is the most striking and chilling example of its own collapsing ideological supremacy: “communism” is synonymous with tens of millions of deaths and nothing else. Capitalism, by contrast, is presented as a largely bloodless, blameless engine of human prosperity.
The story of capitalism is more complicated than that. If you want to read effusive praise of capitalism, you’ll find it in Marx and Engels’ Communist Manifesto: the revolutionary dynamism of the capitalists, they wrote, had created “wonders far surpassing Egyptian pyramids, Roman aqueducts, and Gothic cathedrals”. But capitalism is an economic system drenched in the blood of countless millions.
…
Capitalism was built on the bodies of millions from the very start. From the late 17th century onwards, the transatlantic slave trade became a pillar of emergent capitalism. Much of the wealth of London, Bristol and Liverpool – once the largest slave trading port in Europe – was made from the enslaved labour of Africans. The capital accumulated from slavery – from tobacco, cotton and sugar – drove the industrial revolution in Manchester and Lancashire; and several banks today can trace their origins to profits made from slavery.
Capitalism was built on the bodies of millions from the very start. From the late 17th century onwards, the transatlantic slave trade became a pillar of emergent capitalism.
Spare me the tedious whaddaboudism.
Slavery is an ancient almost universal feature of most known historic societies – pre-dating capitalism by millenia. For a relatively short period slavery and an emerging capitalism overlapped, but very quickly capitalist industrialisation led to the direct end of chattel slavery. (A process incidentally led largely by the same class of 'exploiting' Europeans Owen Jones manages to completely ignore.)
If not for this capitalism you hate so much, slavery would be as commonplace and endemic as ever. Statistically you wouldn't even be alive and able to type out your complaints about it here.
Capitalism is a great system … for the capitalists. Pretty shit for the workers, the environment, wildlife, democracy, or ethics. IMNSHO is it a spiritual force of evil
Current estimates are that about 12 million to 12.8 million Africans were shipped across the Atlantic over a span of 400 years. The number purchased by the traders was considerably higher, as the passage had a high death rate with approximately 1.2-2.4 million dying during the voyage and millions more in seasoning camps in the Caribbean after arrival in the New World. Millions of people also died as a result of slave raids, wars, and during transport to the coast for sale to European slave traders.
Slavery in the 21st Century. OK so lets look at this – because clearly you didn't. Well bugger me there right at the top, a map showing where it remains most prevalent. All arguably the last places on earth you'd hold up as liberal democratic, developed 'rule of law', capitalist style nations.
How generous of those European nations to abolish slavery after benefitting from it for 400 years.
More denial. Virtually every major historic society featured slavery due to their lack of industrialisation. The only time and places where slavery has been made both permanently illegal and largely abolished have been those featuring a capitalist industrialisation – which really started to dominate from the early to mid 1800’s.
So slavery didn’t end, as you claimed, it is still ongoing despite the law. In a globalised economy those on the top still benefit from it no matter where it occurs.
In the 21st Century, almost every country has legally abolished chattel slavery, but the number of people currently enslaved around the world is far greater than the number of slaves during the historical Atlantic slave trade.
but the number of people currently enslaved around the world is far greater than the number of slaves during the historical Atlantic slave trade.
A typical piece of intellectual dishonesty that has to erase context to even look faintly plausible.
For a start the human population has increased roughly ten-fold in that period. Failing to correct for that alone makes it a meaningless comparison. To make matters worse it compares one subset of slavery, the trans-Atlantic trade, with the total global trade today.
For a second – those places where it remains most prevalent are the least developed places on earth. Nothing much of any 'benefit' comes from these places that could not be done more efficiently and profitably without slavery.
And while this residual slavery is of course deplorable – at maybe 40m people and maybe $150b of revenue it represents a diminishing and very minor fraction of the total global economy.
Given that chattel slavery is virtually non-existent in all the developed, industrialised, capitalist nations that feature a reliable rule of law and property rights – the obvious way to fully and finally eradicate slavery is to extend these conditions everywhere.
I agree with Marx's view of capital as an "egregore"; a disembodied entity with its own demonic life force; which describes the modern multinational corporation such as BlackRock perfectly. This is a popular essay on the topic:
RL. Are you really trying to argue that Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin only existed because Marx?
All the hundreds of other bloody despots in history. Many before Marx was even born. Robespierre, Pinochet, Hitler, the Shah, Stroessner, Suharto, Videla. The many that came out on top after revolutions. All due to Marx?
Are you really trying to argue that Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin only existed because Marx?
They absolutely relied on marxism as their justification. All monsters need an ideology to give cover to their madness – and classical marxism is certainly not the only one they turn to.
And as I've carefully outlined, but everyone ignores, ideology is what you get when you take a good idea in isolation, like fairness, purity, or freedom and make it into a totalising solution that will deliver some future utopia. Which is promised to be so wonderful that any amount of destruction and horror is justified to achieve it.
Which is essentially what all of the tyrants you have named share in common.
It is the wannabee tyrant that uses it as an excuse.
In the case of marxism the tyranny is baked in. Because the goal is equality of outcome but all humans are different – the revolution must impose it's new social order. The oppressor class must be overthrown and replaced with the worker class – who will magically deliver the promised utopia. (Exactly how remains mostly unexamined.)
Authoritarian personalities are deeply drawn to this prospect, they imagine they will be the ones doing the 'redistributing'. All the petty tyrants – and they lurk everywhere – come out of the woodwork like the zombies in World War Z to inflict their revenge for every slight and hurt they've carefully nurtured.
Those who have lived through communism say that it was not so much the brutality of the state they feared – because they expected that – but that no-one not even their family, could be trusted not to betray them. As a result everyone spoke in lies all the time.
Ta-Nehisi Coates … "one of the foremost black intellectuals"
LOL … more like one of the High Priests of the Critical Race Theory Religious Cult of which you are a particularly ambitious & dogmatic local cheerleader.
Somewhat akin to a Church of Scientology enforcer.
But don't let that stop you. Please, tell me more about how much I have written here about Critical Race Theory. If I'm a prominent cheerleader of it, please provide the links.
You have to go to the annotated links for that detail, but it is there..
eg. No. 3 – Combatting hate speech and hate crimes: Proposed legislative changes to the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code – Canadian Govt site.
yeah, I don't even have my head around the NZ legislation, not going to deep dive on the Canadian's, so left not much the wiser. She might be right, or she might be over egging it. It's a problem, including in NZ, that we don't have many straightforward explanations of legislation (not just in this area).
On the subject of systemic racism in medicine. This was mentioned on Morning Report. That pulse oximeters have an inbuilt bias. The readings for those with non white skin aren’t as accurate.
“Pulse oximetry devices used for warning of low blood oxygenation in covid-19 and other diseases may be missing three times as many cases of occult hypoxaemia in black patients as in white, says a study report published in the New England Journal of Medicine.1
Researchers looked at over 48 000 pulse oximetry readings in 8675 US white patients and 1326 US black patients, comparing them with more accurate arterial oxygen saturation measures taken almost contemporaneously.
Among white patients whose pulse oximetry readings were 92-96%, the proportion who actually had arterial oxygen saturation below 88% was 3.6% (95% confidence interval 2.5% to 4.6%). But among black patients the proportion actually below that figure was 11.4% (7.6% to 15.2%).
“Our results suggest that reliance on pulse oximetry to triage patients and adjust supplemental oxygen levels may place black patients at increased risk for hypoxaemia,” noted the study authors, from the University of Michigan Medical School. The study is the latest of many to find that current assumptions and algorithms, often derived from heavily white patient populations, may work against black patients.2”
When products are developed by predominantly white folks, they fail to take colour into account. The same has been found with facial recognition software.
No easy fix, unless tertiary institutions take affirmative action more seriously.
How about "men like me", who mimic women outwardly and to different degrees of success, who have an innate feeling of womanhood without any of the experience of being female.Who feel more comfortable in life presenting as a woman , looking like a woman ,behaving as if they were a woman
Women they are not, unless we are to tear down our understanding of reproduction of mammalian species, based on binary sex.And totally demolish the language that has evolved around that
Anyone keen to start degendering French and Spanish etc?
We are barely human in the eyes of some. And this movement is a MRA movement for middle class white male to assert their dominance over NON Males and bros will be supporting it. In the end, bros will not suffer from this, only non bros. And thus it was ever since.
I have long maintained the idea that men will never be allies of women. And this movement demonstrates it so nicely.
We are no longer a class. We are something that anyone can be and no one can define.
That's a sad perspective. Most men love the women and girls in their lives, and would protect them ahead of their own life. Don't focus on the criminals when most guys are quietly working to make the world better.
But the 'class' of men that is the other 50% of the worlds population is not a womens friend. Not even to their 'own' women such as 'their' wife or 'their' child.
Please point where 'guys' are working quietly to make things better for women by allowing men into female prisons, female shelters, female rape crisis centres, female changing rooms, female toilets, female swimming hours, female sports, female awards, female hospital wards and oh allowing male lesbians to demand women suck their lady dicks in the name of lesbianism.
I can't wait to see that, cause all of these things are being pushed through not by criminals but by lawmakers, lawyers, opinion makers, journalists, and the likes. Unless you are calling these people criminals and i am just missing the 'joke' in all of that.
You will find that if you look long enough at the Labour Party – the one which is currently in a single majority government – that it is not a bunch of idealistic millennial women with their heads in the clouds – but full of men and women being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars each to make this into law, and they are cynically enough to push that into law, knowing full well that non of that will ever really affect them.
You will find that if you look long enough – and you have all the submissions to watch for the spectacle of rude manners, the condescending bullthittery that came courtesy of the idealistic middle aged women of the Labour and Green Party – that Mme Kere Kere, Mme Wall, Mme Russel et al, – are really pushing hard for this to become law.
You will find that if you look long enough, that it is our lawmaker in government who push that shit on women – no debate and all – and non of the men in parliament are saying a single word but then maybe they are cowards. Who knows.
You will find that if you look long enough, that maybe it is time for the silent blokes who love 'their women' and 'their mothers' and 'their daughters' to maybe just maybe start speaking up on behalf of 'their' women.
You will find that if you look long enough, that maybe it is time for the silent blokes who love ‘their women’ and ‘their mothers’ and ‘their daughters’ to maybe just maybe start speaking up on behalf of ‘their’ women.
The problem with this solution is that two generations of men who have done so have been shouted down by women for having the temerity to “think they can speak on women’s behalf”.
And even the “tone’ of that sentence I quote, and the negative, sarcastic-seeming framing of the word “their” (apparently implying men still think they own women in this country, which is nonsense) makes men want to back out & leave it to the girls & women to fight their own battles. Which is precisely what we have been told to do over & over again by misandrist females for several decades now.
Change your language, & your approach, if you want help from men. And don’t ask “men” to change other people they can’t, any more than you can.
Newsflash: Men are not all the exact same creature, always collectively perceiving & acting in their own common group interest. That thinking is shite.
We are unique all individuals & how we relate to the women in our lives is unique & individual too. The biggest influence on who I am, how I relate to people, & how I perceive things was my mother, not my father. Though I loved them both equally, nature & nurture has made me more like mum than dad in personality. And I’m comfortable with that – because I think it makes me a nicer MAN.
Change your language, & your approach, if you want help from men. And don’t ask “men” to change other people they can’t, any more than you can.
well then, I won't expect YOU to help women – who may or may not be 'yours', as i won't change my language. But then, i don't expect men to help. I don't expect men to be allies of anyone who is not a man. I simply expect men to stand by and do nothing. As usual.
But then, i don’t expect men to help. I don’t expect men to be allies of anyone who is not a man. I simply expect men to stand by and do nothing. As usual.
I help women all the time. I also help men. Anyone who asks for my help generally gets it, if I can actually help. That’s how I was brought up.
I don’t know your full story, but some of your recent comments that I have read – and your pseudonym – point to a harrowing background, & who knows maybe even PTSD. Apparently your experience has prejudiced you against men in general.
I am sorry if that is so, but don’t expect to get away with frequently lambasting men in general because of your distorted perception of what “men” are like. You are not a man & you don’t know what you are talking about. Talking only to others who feel the same way about men will never open your eyes to what most men are really like.
And lambasting & hectoring “men” will just see you mentally categorised as a man-hater & ignored because of it, imo.
What starts off as politeness and empathy (addressing transwomen as if they were in fact truly women ) can end being embedded in policy and law, to the detriment of women
Yeah had this discussion one with some women who were lamenting their negotiation skills and deciding that they had to get better at it.
They discovered that all the men who started with them started on significantly higher salaries than they did. They had decided it was their own fault – most were more skilled and experienced than the men.
I pointed out that the person who was responsible for employing them was the only person who knew all the salaries he was starting people on and that he had made conscious decisions about each and everyone including the context of gender and the obvious disparity. These were conscious decisions to pay all the men more. The only person who could have fixed it at the time was that person.
Therein lies most of the problem – if the people who could fix it wanted to do so they don't need committees, investigations, protests, unions, legislation, etc to do so. They just need to exercise the power they already have. That they choose not to is deliberate.
When you consider the angry right and the disappointed left, that is a remarkably low number. Compare leaders of other democracies: Boris Johnson, for example has an approval rating of 25% (source: YouGov). In fact, the Evil Cindy Dictator is so unpopular in her country that she must resign no other leader in any Western democracy has a higher approval rating (except Angela Merkel as she bids farewell). And this is after a slump.
I was looking at that damned thing, and didn't get the "Mrs Ed" comment at all. Must have gotten so distracted by the overt racism that it overloaded my fuckwit-detector.
I'm ok with that in this case – it's so beyond the pale that the right whingers will end up throwing money at them. As it is, nobody can boycott it because airbnb has already ditched it from their listings.
This way, they don't even get the oxygen of complaining about freeze peach and vuctumhood.
Although NZ being small as it is, it'll probably get out in a couple of days. Even if the owners don't out themselves to explain how it was just a joke, or what have you.
Barry Soper being a real pushy prick thinking his questions are the only important ones at the stand up this afternoon. Jacinda is more patient with him than I would be.
Never thought I would see the day when this blog waxes lyrical about Jordan Peterson, guy who wants to roll back all the social gains over the last 50 years and restore a puritanical patriarchial society where all forms of pleasure are outlaws, and LGBT's have no rights.
No wonder I dont post here much any more. You guys are getting worse and worse each day.
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There are two major public consultations closing in the next week, Auckland Council’s Long Term Plan (LTP), and the draft Government Policy Statement on Land Transport (GPS). Closing dates and times: LTP closes Thursday 28 February, at 11.59pm – a minute to midnight! GPS closes Tuesday 2 April, at 12pm noon – note that’s ...
From Kiwiblog’s David Farrar – Bryce Wilkinson writes: Senior Fellow Bryce Wilkinson’s analysis reveals that since March 2009, New Zealand has spent $158 billion more overseas than it has earned, but its NIIP has only fallen by $32 billion.Statistics New Zealand shows that receipts from overseas reinsurers have ...
Is she hinting that the Coalition Government will have to back down on key promises it made in Opposition? Brian Easton writes – The Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, is telling an evolving story about her fiscal challenges. In Opposition she was confident that she could ...
Dear Nicola Willis,Right now you’ve probably got lots of competing demands coming at you. Ministers who’ve inherited quite a mess, or so you’ve told us, looking for money in the budget to improve things. I imagine that’s why they came to parliament - to make things better.You’ll have to make ...
The Local Government, Transport and Auckland Minister hasthreatened councils with intervention if they don’t merge water assets to take them off balance sheet, just as the now-repealed Three Waters plan directed. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My six things of note this morning for Monday, March 25 include:Simeon ...
A listing of 36 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 17, 2024 thru Sat, March 23, 2024. Story of the week Thanks to John Mason having the stamina to sit down to watch "Climate - the Movie" ...
This morning the Q&A programme had Simeon Brown on to talk about National’s replacement for Three Waters. In case anyone’s forgotten the three are - drinking water, waste water, and sewerage. It’s quite important not to get them mixed up. In much the same way that you wouldn’t want to ...
Today’s newsletter comes with a mini-podcast conversation between me and my buddy Liv Tennet, talking about her time as a child actor in Lord of the Rings. It’s a conversation with a lot of giggles as she talks about falling off a horse, and becoming a meme. Read ...
The Desmog Climate Disinformation Database documents, "individuals and organisations that have helped to delay and distract the public and our elected leaders from taking needed action to reduce greenhouse gas pollution and fight global warming." It's a who's who of the organised climate change denial movement, in other words. In ...
Bob Edlin writes – A High Court judge has decided miscreants who have mana – or who claim to have mana – should be treated differently from miscreants who have none. It’s a ruling that suggests indigenous law-breakers have a better chance of securing a discharge without conviction ...
Welcome to the first, and possibly last, edition of Brickbats, Bouquets and Bull’s Wool. In which I’ll take a look at the events of the last week or so, and rate them.In such ratings the numbers usually have more to do with the opinions of the reviewer, than the actual ...
Roger Partridge writes – My earlier column this month, New Zealand’s highest court could be facing a turning point, prompted a flood of feedback from business readers and lawyers alike. A common query was what Parliament can do to restrain an overreaching judiciary. This week I discuss two steps Parliament ...
TL;DR: In today’s ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.16pm on Friday, March 22: writes about New Zealand's Building Boom—And What the World Must Learn From It over at his substack. challenges the Auckland Council’s use of a 3.8 degrees of warming forecast to oppose a wave-park and data centre project ...
Is she hinting that the Coalition Government will have to back down on key promises it made in Opposition?The Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, is telling an evolving story about her fiscal challenges. In Opposition she was confident that she could deliver her promised income tax cuts. Appointed minister, she ...
Buzz from the Beehive Ministers of the Crown have drawn attention to one sector of the science sector which is unlikely to be subjected to heavy spending cuts, a state-funded broadcaster which is doing nicely, thank you, and a sporting event that had $5.4 million from the public purse puffed ...
Abbott’s Freestyle Libre sensors allow continuous glucose monitoring (CGM). The sensor is applied to the back of the patient’s arm, with a thin filament under the skin measuring glucose levels constantly. But it costs around $100 per sensor and must be replaced once every 14 days. Photo by BSIP/Universal Images ...
The Inspector General of Intelligence and Security (IGIS) recently released a report in which he exposes the existence of a foreign intelligence partner-controlled technological “capability” inside the headquarters of the GCSB, NZ’s 5 Eyes-affiliated signals intelligence collection and analysis agency. … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – Nearly three decades after the introduction of MMP and multiparty governments there should be a greater level of understanding about their finer points than often appears to be the case. The reaction to the despicable outburst from the Deputy Prime Minister at the weekend highlights ...
The sweet kisses from fruit of summerHave slowly been turning dullerYou say, "those times"And "remember the daysWhen we went outside and there still was the shade?"Taking no reason into play…Autumn. Clear, blue days shortening to longer nights, growing colder. Aotearoa.That’s us. The temperature dropping, the looming car crash - so ...
Bryce Edwards writes – “It is often said that behind every great man is a great woman”. This is the pitch by the National Party Botany electorate branch to attend their “Ladies Afternoon Tea with Amanda Luxon”. For $110 including GST, you can turn up on Saturday 20 April ...
David Farrar writes – The Electoral Commission has published the expense returns for political parties for the 2023 election. I’ve put them in a table with how many votes a party got so we can see the spend per vote. National only spent $3.34 for every vote they got, almost ...
Winston Peters’ headline-making actions over the past week may have been a show of political power intended to strengthen his hand in Budget negotiations. It was no accident that his State of the Nation speech was as it was. He made it as New Zealand First Leader, not as Deputy ...
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:Former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson bowed out of politics this week, giving a series of exit ...
Graham Adams writes — If you love the law or sausages, as the saying goes, best not to look too closely at how they are made. And after watching the orgy of self-pity when Newshub’s closure was announced on February 28, television journalism should definitely be added to the list of those ...
Venerable New Zealand political commentator, Chris Trotter (https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/), is a sad creature these days. Once one of the most reliable Leftist writers out there – Economic Left at that – Trotter seems to have absorbed the worldview of Auckland culture-war obsessives. It is not for me to categorise what he ...
The Coalition Government’s plan to ‘get Auckland moving’ is a cuts cover-up that will ultimately cost Aucklanders more to move around the city, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Slashing the Ministry of Pacific Peoples by 40% will have a devastating impact on pacific communities and further highlights how little this government cares about anything other than cutting taxes for the wealthiest few. ...
Labour has proposed an urgent inquiry to investigate the ever-increasing profits of supermarkets, aiming to lower costs for shoppers and food producers alike, says Labour Spokesperson for Commerce and Consumer Affairs Arena Williams and Primary Production Spokesperson Cushla Tangaere-Manuel. ...
With 14% of jobs on the line at the Ministry for Ethnic Communities, the responsible Minister Melissa Lee is failing to stand up for the very communities she’s meant to be representing. ...
COURT OF APPEAL: TRIFECTA OF VICTORY FOR NZ FIRST, TRIFECTA OF FAILURE FOR OPPONENTS For the third time since April 2020, New Zealand First has defeated the Serious Fraud Office and all those complicit in a malicious attack against a political party going about its lawful business in a lawful ...
The Green Party stands with people who live in public housing, people in dire housing need, experts and advocates in demanding better than the Government’s archaic approach to housing those who need our support the most. ...
New Zealand has recently lost the hosting rights of some major international sporting events including the America’s Cup, the Rugby Championship, Netball World Cup, and the Wellington Sevens. We are now at a huge risk of losing SailGP as well. And it won’t stop there. The recent issues with SailGP ...
A Member’s Bill drawn this week would modernise insurance law and make things fairer and more transparent for consumers, Christchurch Central MP Duncan Webb said. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues has confirmed she was aware of funding issues in mid-December and did nothing to stop it. On 14 March, she signed off on changes that were announced and implemented on 18 March without any consultation with disability communities. ...
Green Party MP Julie Anne Genter says her members' bill is an opportunity for the coalition government to plug the gap in electric vehicle incentives. ...
The National Government continues to talk about irresponsible tax cuts that will only drive up inflation, despite the country entering a technical recession. ...
The Minister for Disability Issues must act urgently to reinstate flexibility around the funding for disability support and apologise to disabled carers. ...
This story has been initiated by a leftie shill reporter who proactively sought to call a member of a former band, which disbanded twelve years ago, give their biased appraisal of what was said in my speech, and concocted a ham-fisted attempt at a story that does nothing but show ...
The Government has accepted Labour’s change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Many in the mainstream media have taken what was said in New Zealand First’s State of the Nation Speech in Palmerston North on Sunday and deliberately, deceitfully, and ignorantly misrepresented what I said and why I said it. The headlines and commentary on the news stated that I compared ‘co-governance ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. “I’m calling on all political parties to support my ...
Good afternoon. Thank you for, in your very busy lives, turning up to this meeting today. On October 14th last year New Zealanders overwhelmingly voted for change. That is exactly what this new government is bringing. New Zealand First campaigned to ‘take back our country’ and stop the disastrous economic ...
This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jones’ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Government’s fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Government’s miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesn’t act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed the passing of legislation to move light electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) into the road user charges system from 1 April. “It was always intended that EVs and PHEVs would be exempt from road user charges until they reached two ...
New Zealand is strengthening its ability to combat illegal fishing outside its domestic waters and beef up regulation for its own commercial fishers in international waters through a Bill which had its first reading in Parliament today. The Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2023 sets out stronger ...
Economists Carl Hansen and Professor Prasanna Gai have been appointed to the Reserve Bank Monetary Policy Committee, Finance Minister Nicola Willis announced today. The Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) is the independent decision-making body that sets the Official Cash Rate which determines interest rates. Carl Hansen, the executive director of Capital ...
Apartment owners and buyers will soon have greater protections as further changes to the law on unit titles come into effect, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “The Unit Titles (Strengthening Body Corporate Governance and Other Matters) Amendment Act had already introduced some changes in December 2022 and May 2023, and ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Egypt and Europe from this weekend. “This travel will focus on a range of New Zealand’s traditional diplomatic and security partnerships while enabling broad engagement on the urgent situation in Gaza,” Mr Peters says. Mr Peters will attend the NATO Foreign ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown is encouraging all road users to stay safe, plan their journeys ahead of time, and be patient with other drivers while travelling around this Easter long weekend. “Road safety is a responsibility we all share, and with increased traffic on our roads expected this Easter we ...
About 1.4 million New Zealanders will receive cost of living relief through increased government assistance from April 1 909,000 pensioners get a boost to Superannuation, including 5000 veterans 371,000 working-age beneficiaries will get higher payments 45,000 students will see an increase in their allowance Over a quarter of New Zealanders ...
Ensuring social housing is being provided to those with the greatest needs is front of mind as the Government restarts social housing tenancy reviews, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. “Our relentless focus on building a strong economy is to ensure we can deliver better public services such as social ...
The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary will not go ahead, with Cabinet deciding to stop work on the proposed reserve and remove the Bill that would have established it from Parliament’s order paper. “The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary Bill would have created a 620,000 sq km economic no-go zone,” Oceans and Fisheries Minister ...
Dam safety regulations are being amended so that smaller dams won’t be subject to excessive compliance costs, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on reducing costs and removing unnecessary red tape so we can get the economy back on track. “Dam safety regulations ...
The coalition Government is expanding the medium-scale adverse event classification to parts of the North Island as dry weather conditions persist, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I have made the decision to expand the medium-scale adverse event classification already in place for parts of the South Island to also cover the ...
The passing of legislation giving effect to coalition Government tax commitments has been welcomed by Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “The Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill will help place New Zealand on a more secure economic footing, improve outcomes for New Zealanders, and make our tax system ...
Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins and Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds today announced plans to transform our science and university sectors to boost the economy. Two advisory groups, chaired by Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, will advise the Government on how these sectors can play a greater ...
The Budget will deliver urgently-needed tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders while putting the government’s finances back on a sustainable track, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The Finance Minister made the comments at the release of the Budget Policy Statement setting out the Government’s Budget objectives. “The coalition Government intends ...
The coalition Government will look at options to address a zoning issue that limits how much financial support Queenstown residents can get for accommodation. Cabinet has agreed on a response to the Petitions Committee, which had recommended the geographic information MSD uses to determine how much accommodation supplement can be ...
Cabinet has agreed to a short extension to the final reporting timeframe for the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care from 28 March 2024 to 26 June 2024, Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden says. “The Royal Commission wrote to me on 16 February 2024, requesting that I consider an ...
The coalition Government is delivering an $18 million boost to New Zealanders needing to travel for specialist health treatment, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says. “These changes are long overdue – the National Travel Assistance (NTA) scheme saw its last increase to mileage and accommodation rates way back in 2009. ...
The Government is recognising the innovative and rising talent in New Zealand’s growing space sector, with the Prime Minister and Space Minister Judith Collins announcing the new Prime Minister’s Prizes for Space today. “New Zealand has a growing reputation as a high-value partner for space missions and research. I am ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has confirmed New Zealand’s concerns about cyber activity have been conveyed directly to the Chinese Government. “The Prime Minister and Minister Collins have expressed concerns today about malicious cyber activity, attributed to groups sponsored by the Chinese Government, targeting democratic institutions in both New ...
Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry Education Minister Erica Stanford today announced the appointment of three independent reviewers to lead the Ministerial Inquiry into the Ministry of Education’s School Property Function. The Inquiry will be led by former Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully. “There is a clear need ...
State Highway 1 across the Brynderwyns will be open for Easter weekend, with work currently underway to ensure the resilience of this critical route being paused for Easter Weekend to allow holiday makers to travel north, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Today I visited the Brynderwyn Hills construction site, where ...
Introduction Good morning to you all, and thanks for having me bright and early today. I am absolutely delighted to be the Minister for Infrastructure alongside the Minister of Housing and Resource Management Reform. I know the Prime Minister sees the three roles as closely connected and he wants me ...
New Zealand stands with the United Kingdom in its condemnation of People’s Republic of China (PRC) state-backed malicious cyber activity impacting its Electoral Commission and targeting Members of the UK Parliament. “The use of cyber-enabled espionage operations to interfere with democratic institutions and processes anywhere is unacceptable,” Minister Responsible for ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced New Zealand will provide logistics support for the upcoming Solomon Islands election. “We’re sending a team of New Zealand Defence Force personnel and two NH90 helicopters to provide logistics support for the election on 17 April, at the request ...
The European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill received Royal Assent today, completing the process for New Zealand’s ratification of its free trade agreement with the European Union. “I am pleased to announce that today, in a small ceremony at the Beehive, New Zealand notified the European Union ...
Public consultation on the terms of reference for the Royal Commission into COVID-19 Lessons has concluded, Internal Affairs Minister Hon Brooke van Velden says. “I have been advised that there were over 11,000 submissions made through the Royal Commission’s online consultation portal.” Expanding the scope of the Royal Commission of ...
Hardworking families are set to benefit from a new credit to help them meet their early childcare education (ECE) costs, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. From 1 July, parents and caregivers of young children will be supported to manage the rising cost of living with a partial reimbursement of their ...
A specialised Independent Technical Advisory Group (ITAG) tasked with preparing and publishing independent non-binding advice on the design of a "green" (sustainable finance) taxonomy rulebook is being established, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “Comprising experts and market participants, the ITAG's primary goal is to deliver comprehensive recommendations to the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Army, Major General John Boswell, DSD, for his service as he leaves the Army after 40 years. “I would like to thank Major General Boswell for his contribution to the Army and the wider New Zealand Defence Force, undertaking many different ...
25 March 2024 Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders Small Business, Manufacturing, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly will travel to Australia for a series of bi-lateral meetings and manufacturing visits. During the visit, Minister Bayly will meet with his Australian counterparts, Senator Tim Ayres, Ed ...
Government commits almost $3 million for period products in schools The Coalition Government has committed $2.9 million to ensure intermediate and secondary schools continue providing period products to those who need them, Minister of Education Erica Stanford announced today. “This is an issue of dignity and ensuring young women don’t ...
Good morning, it’s great to be here. First, I would like to acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of Building Surveyors and thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning. I would like to use this opportunity to outline the Government’s ambitious plan and what we hope to ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti has announced the Government’s commitment to the Auckland Secondary Schools Māori and Pacific Islands Cultural Festival, more commonly known as Polyfest. “The Ministry for Pacific Peoples is a longtime supporter of Polyfest and, as it celebrates 49 years in 2024, I’m proud to ...
Before moving onto the substance of today’s address, I want to recognise the very significant and ongoing contribution the Breast Cancer Foundation makes to support the lives of New Zealand women and their families living with breast cancer. I very much enjoy working with you. I also want to recognise ...
New Zealand has notched up a first with the launch of University of Canterbury research to the International Space Station, Science, Innovation and Technology and Space Minister Judith Collins says. The hardware, developed by Dr Sarah Kessans, is designed to operate autonomously in orbit, allowing scientists on Earth to study ...
Introduction Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today and I’m sorry I can’t be there in person. Yesterday I started in Wellington for Breakfast TV, spoke to a property conference in Auckland, and finished the day speaking to local government in Christchurch, so it would have been ...
The Coalition Government is contributing more than $1 million to support the establishment of an emergency multi-agency coordination centre in Northland. Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced the contribution today during a visit of the Whangārei site where the facility will be constructed. “Northland has faced a number ...
New Zealanders have enjoyed a broader range of voices telling the story of Aotearoa thanks to the creation of Whakaata Māori 20 years ago, says Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka. The minister spoke at a celebration marking the national indigenous media organisation’s 20th anniversary at their studio in Auckland on ...
Commercial catch limits for some fisheries have been increased following a review showing stocks are healthy and abundant, Ocean and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The changes, along with some other catch limit changes and management settings, begin coming into effect from 1 April 2024. "Regular biannual reviews of fish ...
COMMENTARY:By Ronny Kareni Since the atrocious footage of the suffering of an indigenous Papuan man reverberates in the heart of Puncak by the brute force of Indonesia’s army in early February, shocking tactics deployed by those in power to silence critics has been unfolding. Nowhere is this more evident ...
Analysis - Nicola Willis is holding firm on tax cuts despite the economic outlook being worse than forecast and critics urging her to wait, writes Peter Wilson for The Week In Politics. ...
Opposition MPs and unions are criticising a proposal by New Zealand’s Ministry of Pacific Peoples to cut staff by 40 percent. The country’s largest trade union — The Public Service Association — says the ministry has informed staff that it is looking to shed 63 of 156 positions. Opposition MPs ...
A poem by Poetry Aotearoa Yearbook 2024 featured poet Carin Smeaton. Daughtr of the 90s when she gets promoted to usherette a baby blu eel carries her all the way up to mothership she’s hovering high she lets the underaged in to see keanu reeves she lets the only lonely ...
Analysis by Keith Rankin. Keith Rankin, trained as an economic historian, is a retired lecturer in Economics and Statistics. He lives in Auckland, New Zealand. My earlier article – Can ‘Good’ be the Greater Evil? – looked at the issue of how wars should end, and how Good versus Evil ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 AMMA by Saraid de Silva (Moa Press, $38)A stunning debut novel reviewed by Brannavan ...
From Steve Martin to Ricky Stanicky, a pick’n’mix of things worth watching and listening to this long weekend. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. If you’re at a loss for something to occupy yourself with this Easter, don’t panic: The Spinoff’s got ...
Jesus had dinner with his 12 disciples right before he died. Noted historian Madeleine Chapman finds out who really deserved to be there.First published in 2018 but let’s be honest, the subject is timeless. As you sit on your couch this Easter Sunday, eating a chocolate egg you know ...
The newly-promoted Northern League club is on a mission to return to the National League for the first time in two decades. Plenty about domestic football in New Zealand has changed in that time – but the sense that this amateur competition is not an entirely level playing field remains. ...
Comment: Every year on February 2, a dozen men in tuxedos and top hats approach the burrow of a groundhog in Gobbler’s Knob, Pennsylvania and entice the beaver-like rodent to emerge and predict the weather. If the groundhog, named Punxsutawney Phil, sees its own shadow when it is summoned, legend ...
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Auckland Council has put a deadline on new weather-impacted property owners applying for categorisation as government funding looks set to run out. Councillors have voted to support a deadline of September 30 for property owners who haven’t accessed support to come forward and engage with the council’s recovery office. It ...
NONFICTION 1 BBQ Economics by Liam Dann (Penguin Random House, $40) “It’s official,” wrote Dann nine days ago in the Herald, where he works as business editor at large, “we’re in recession.” Yeah, great. He delivered the bad stats: “GDP fell 0.1 percent in the December 2023 quarter, compared with ...
By Anneke Smith, RNZ News political reporter A petition urging the New Zealand government to provide urgent humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people has been tabled in the House. More than 200 people gathered on Parliament’s forecourt today and they were met by MPs from Labour, the Greens and Te ...
Pacific Media Watch The Paris-based global media freedom watchdog RSF (Reporters Without Borders) has appealed for information about the “disappearance” of Palestinian journalist Bayan Abusultan. She was reportedly last seen on March 19 among people “sequestered” in this week’s raid and siege of Al Shifa hospital by Israeli troops in ...
EDITORIAL:The Jakarta Post It happens again and again; indigenous Papuans fall victim to Indonesian soldiers. This time, we have photographic evidence for the brutality, with videos on social media showing a Papuan man being tortured by a group of plainclothes men alleged to be the Indonesian Military (TNI) members. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robyn J. Whitaker, Director of the Wesley Centre for Theology, Ethics, and Public Policy & Associate Professor, New Testament, Pilgrim Theological College, University of Divinity A strange and eclectic range of activities takes place across these few weeks of the year. Some ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Panizza Allmark, Professor Visual & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University It’s Easter weekend, which means many of us will be kicking back with the greatest hits on repeat. But whether you’re a boomer, or an ‘80s or ’90s kid, you might be ...
RNZ Pacific Fiji’s Acting Public Prosecutor has filed an appeal against the sentences of former prime minister Voreqe Bainimarama and suspended police chief Sitiveni Qiliho in their corruption case. Bainimarama was granted an absolute discharge for attempting to pervert the course of justice while Qiliho received a conditional discharge with ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Arosha Weerakoon, Senior Lecturer and General Dentist, School of Dentistry, The University of Queensland Casezy idea/Shutterstock How does toothpaste work? What did people use before toothpaste was invented? – Amelia, age 7, Meanjin (Brisbane) Thanks for your ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brett Hallam, Associate professor, UNSW Sydney IM Imagery/Shutterstock Solar SunShot is well named. The Australian government announced today it would plough A$1 billion into bringing back solar manufacturing to Australia, boosting energy security, swapping coal and gas jobs for those ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Dix, Research Fellow in Nutrition & Dietetics, The University of Queensland Easter is the time for chocolate. The shops are full of fantastically packaged and shiny chocolates in all shapes and sizes, making trips to the supermarket with children more challenging ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emma Felton, Adjunct Senior Researcher, University of South Australia Even in a stubborn cost-of-living crisis, it seems there’s one luxury most Australians won’t sacrifice – their daily cup of coffee. Coffee sales have largely remained stable, even as financial pressures have ...
Mining company Trans-Tasman Resources has unexpectedly withdrawn its application for a consent to suck the valuable metals vanadium and titanium from the Taranaki seafloor, as it apparently wagers on the Government’s new fast-track process. It had spent two-and-a-half days putting its case to the Environmental Protection Agency’s decision-making committee, at ...
Contrary to the Associate Minister of Education’s claims, analysis of Healthy School Lunches Programme - Ka Ora, Ka Ako assessments has revealed it provides excellent value for the taxpayer dollar, as a groundswell of public opposition to Government ...
Greenpeace says wannabe Taranaki seabed miner Trans-Tasman Resources is likely banking on Christopher Luxon’s fast-track process to side-step proper scrutiny of its Taranaki seabed mining proposal by bailing out of the Environmental Protection Agency hearing ...
Kiwis Against Seabed mining today slammed Australian owned would-be seabed miner Trans Tasman Resources (TTR) for abandoning its application to the Environmental Protection Authority (EPA) to mine the seabed of the South Taranaki Bight. The company ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katie Attwell, Associate Professor, School of Social Sciences, The University of Western Australia Ground Picture/Shutterstock Months after COVID vaccines were introduced in 2021, governments and private organisations mandated them for various groups. Health and aged care workers were among the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Dzurak, Scientia Professor Andrew Dzurak, CEO and Founder of Diraq, UNSW Sydney Diraq For decades, the pursuit of quantum computing has struggled with the need for extremely low temperatures, mere fractions of a degree above absolute zero (0 Kelvin or ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne A national Essential poll, conducted March 20–24 from a sample of 1,150, gave the Coalition a 50–44 lead including undecided, a reversal ...
The Taxpayers’ Union has today made a formal request under the Regulations of the People’s Republic of China on Open Government Information () for information held about how New Zealand Members of Parliament are spending taxpayer ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robert Nelson, Honorary Principal Fellow, The University of Melbourne A Byzantine depiction of the Eucharist in Saint Sophia Cathedral, Kyiv.Jacek555/Wikimedia Commons, CC BY-SA A nasty quarrel arose in the 11th century over what kind of bread should be used in holy ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Hesp, Professor, Flinders University Patrick Hesp In some parts of Australia, coastal dunes are retreating from the ocean at an alarming rate, as waves carve up the beach and wind blows the sand inland. But coastal communities are largely ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Heemsbergen, Senior Lecturer, Digital, Political, Media, Deakin University With an impressive 60% of the US smartphone market, Apple is undeniably big, but not a clear monopoly. Yet, years of innovation by Apple have effectively given the company its own exclusive ...
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Blazer (Friday): What qualities do you admire in a leader Gezza?
I asked for a few hours to think about that one before replying. I’ve had that time now (n between some rellies joining me for a few days in a working bee i n & around Pookden Manor) & I’ve decided to frame my response around the qualities I think a good PM should have – as that was the context of our discussion .
Others please feel free to critique my list, or add or replace anything they think is missing, or they have a better “quality” for.
………………………..
A Good PM
Intelligent. Able to understand complex issues & identify constructive solutions to problems, both individually & when working collectively with Cabinet, caucus, departmental advisers & industry experts.
Good communicator. Always clear. Circumspect when the situation requires it (eg for reasons of national security, diplomacy, or policy not finalised yet) but not vague or waffly.
Good people skills. Relates easily & well to people of all backrounds. Knows how to spot talent (intelligence, people skills, capacity for learning and hard work) among caucus members. Matches colleagues’ abilities to portfolios well.
Sets clear vision & strategic goals for Government, so that Ministers know what their departments – and THEY – are expected to achieve, & by when.
Sets clear vision & strategic goals for New Zealand as a society & as an independent country with its own unique national goals, priorities, & interdependencies, & international relationships.
Good People Manager. Recognises & rewards good performance by MPs by promoting them; rewards persistent bad performance or clear lack of ability by demoting MPs or not appointing them to important portfolios.
Consultative, but also decisive when Cabinet or Caucus reach an impasse & a decision MUST be taken – even if that decision subsequently turns out to be a wrong one.
Tolerant of Cabinet Ministers’ & backbench MP’s mistakes – within sensible (common sense) limits! Nobody’s perfect. Recognises this when things go wrong for Party MPs within the Parliamentary working environment, but ensures that lessons are learned.
Strong. Does not shy from sacking Ministers or taking other disciplinary measures when these are clearly required because of MP foolishness or grossly inappropriate / unlawful behaviour.
Hi Gezza, I'm not sure of the context you were asked to define Leadership but having read your list i am wondering, in our lifetime, do you think any other PM has had more of those qualities than our current one? I know others will disagree but it seems to me that Ardern fits most, if not all, of those qualities.
I’m pondering that one, RBO. Give me some time.
I came up with this list based on what qualities, from my observations over my lifetime, a good chairperson of a board, AND a good CEO (private or government) has. Because, imo, a good PM essentially combines those two roles.
Sometimes a good COTB & a good CEO has the intelligence to appoint others who have some qualities they lack to fill the gaps as their trusted advisers. Helen Clark did this with H2, for example.
I didn’t try & write it around a particular PM, but from what I remember, Norman Kirk comes close meeting most of those. Jacinda Ardern, I’m not quite so sure. Judith Collins however doesn’t get within a bull’s roar of meeting most of those requirements, in my view.
Gezza: you've expressed your disenchantment with Jacinda Ardern before, and here, it seems, you've set up a format for criticising NZ Prime Ministers; is your hope that commenters here will similarly share their anxieties about Jacinda?
I was pleased to read the response from Red Blooded One.
“Gezza: you’ve expressed your disenchantment with Jacinda Ardern before, and here, it seems, you’ve set up a format for criticising NZ Prime Ministers;”
G: No I haven’t. I’ve set out the qualities I personally think a good PM has. Jacinda Ardern has some of those qualities. Or, at least, sometimes she displays them. Helen Clark has many of those qualities. John Key had some, but not others & I learned not to trust Key.
I believe I’m a more dispassionate observer than you are when it comes to such issues, as I’m not politically tribal, Robert, like you are.
Reminds me: One obvious quality I completely missed out & I’m now adding adding. Honesty.
“is your hope that commenters here will similarly share their anxieties about Jacinda?”
G: No. You should know me well enuf by now. If that is what I meant, that is what I would have said. When I post, I say what I mean, & I mean what I say. I’m always happy to clarify if questioned, so thank you for at least asking that question. Don’t try and read my mind, Robert. You are no better a mind-reader than I am. And I can’t read minds.
“I was pleased to read the response from Red Blooded One.”
G: So was I.
Your original post was clear, and thought provoking. FWIW:
Intelligent: Undoubtedly
Good communicator: This has been her strength; in recent months there is a risk it is becoming her weakness. An example: the proposed hate speech legislation.
Good people skills: Yes to your first point. Not so much to your second.
Sets clear vision & strategic goals (etc): No. I sense at times there is no overriding vision beyond slogans, but to be fair that could be because of the nature of our political system (e.g. in the first term she was in a coalition with a party that she is not ideologically comfortable with).
Good people manager: Jury's out. In fact this one is hard to gauge unless you are close to the workings of her caucus.
Consultative but also decisive: Again that's difficult without being an insider.
Tolerant of Cabinet Ministers’ & backbench MP’s mistakes/Strong: I've combined these. At times she's been too tolerant. Phil Twyford, David Clark and Clare Curran both got too much latitude, and right now Poto Williams and Kris Faafoi are being given latitude I'm not sure they deserve. But I'll say this – the PM may be hamstrung if she senses a lack of depth in her caucus. In other words a perceived weakness in this category may in fact reflect strengths in others as she seeks to balance the work needing doing with the talent available.
The best way to handle people given latitude is to give them none of course.
What were the excesses of latitudes Ardern gave David Clark and Clare Curran?
"The best way to handle people given latitude is to give them none of course."
I assume that's sarcasm. I run an international business, and I give my team a lot of latitude, but in return my expectations are clear, as are the consequences of non performance.
"What were the excesses of latitudes Ardern gave David Clark and Clare Curran?"
It took too long for her to sack them, in a nutshell. And she prevaricated. On the On 7/9/18 she said Curran's job was 'not on the line', yet accepted her resignation just hours later.
They were going off on tangents and not team players add a level of incompetency too.No govt either National or Labour are all of the same competency just like Key and Clark they pushed out liabilities.
To also show that those who didn't stick to the team plan consequences are coming .
I felt sure you were meaning the discussion to focus on Jacinda Ardern, Gezza, but if you mean us to discuss PM's from the past as well, may I ask you about your statement:
"I learned not to trust Key"
You trusted Key initially, then learned not to trust him?
For what reasons did you find him trustworthy, initially?
What made you distrust him, ultimately?
I never liked or trusted Sir John.
Sorry Robert. Not really interested in thinking about & then commenting further on Key. Projects to do at Pookden Manor & a perfect, sunny, wind-free mornng for doing them. Getting out there and into them while I’m still able to. Later, dude. 👍🏼
Ah! Just Ardern then.
No. Already told you, Robert, you’re a hopeless mind reader.
The way YOU think is NOT the way I think.
Give up trying to needle me. Not gonna work. 🙄
Find something more productive to do.
Hang in there Gezza
Robert gets a hard-on either defending Jacinda or having a go at a previous poster named James.
Other than that his posts are generally good.
Love your posts on the ducks and general commentary. Really enjoy reading the non-partisan commentators on this site
@ Westykev
Thanks kev. That sort of encouragement makes me want to continue to contribute.
I note that dissent & non-partisan commenters seem to be quite welcome here of late & I like that.
I’m always prepared to change my views if I’m persuaded by a good argument, or if I’m shown to be clearly wrong – at least, I hope I am.
I read a lot more here than I comment on.
Key had me thinking finally an honest politican till about 4 months out from the 2008 election ,then I remember my bullshit detector starting screeching, I had know real political leaning back then .
I voted Key in 2008 because he promised to address the housing crisis and child poverty. What a sucker I was.
And I bet you have been voting for whoever promised to fix the same problems at every election that has followed.
And guess what? Both problems have got worse every single time. What are you going to do in 2023?
And you voted Adern in 2017 and 2020?
How has housing and child poverty gotten better?
fool me once shame on you…
and remember, we were asked by Adern to judge her by her solutions to these issues
Voted TOP last time. I'm in Seymour's electorate and can't remember my electorate vote, still traumatised.
Voted TOP?!? no wonder you are traumatised
Are you pleased with the results on poverty and housing under this government?
No. Deeply pissed off at this incrementalist wet bus ticket neoliberal status quo gutless Blairite pack of weasels who are happy for homeowners/ "investors" to get billions of free $$$$$$$ in unearned capital gains but are like Scrooge when it comes to helping the poor.
We elect the "pack of weasels" we deserve Jimmy – it'll be NAct's turn again (too) soon. Hang in there Jude.
That's a great list Gezza, all good qualities but unfortunately the downside is just more Blah Blah Blah.
Adrian I agree, a huge fail on climate change, child poverty, housing crisis any many more. Big win on Banking and Property Investment.
I like JA as our PM but Labour need more action on all our crises and less Blah Blah Blah.
Thanks Gezza. I don't disagree with your list, all admirable qualities. 👍
Yes. I also liked your list of qualities needed for a good PM Gezza. You will have spent a lot of time putting it together so good on you.
I also agree with RBO that Jacinda Ardern reflects all those qualities. Of course she isn't perfect and she would be the first to agree. For example, I find her a bit waffly sometimes and have been known to tell her as much while watching her on TV. 😡
The largely misogynistic memes that her opponents have tried to pin on her… she's a lightweight who doesn't know what she is doing and, she has no control over her ministers etc., and they have no policies is so much hogwash. Unfortunately there are people whose memory cells are non existent and they fall for the nonsense.
“i am wondering, in our lifetime, do you think any other PM has had more of those qualities than our current one?”….really, are you serious?
Apart from Covid, Ardern has been the most ineffectual and pointless Labour PM in my life time, and that really is saying something..though to be fair she has been great for anyone who profits from banks, landowners, landlords and corporate monopoly owners and their shareholders…turns out she is great at talking, shit at actually doing anything…you only need to observe her (complete lack of) action on climate change to understand this plain fact.
Jacinda Ardern: "my generation's nuclear free moment"….get the fuck out of here!
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/jacinda-ardern-climate-change-is-my-generation-s-nuclear-free-moment.html
I listened to a podcast with Murray Bolton recently. Bolton, who is 73, said he had lived through some very good Labour governments (he named the Clark government specifically). His opinion – this is the worst government in his lifetime. Of any political makeup.
Gypsy, I have to confess I said Murray Who? So I looked him up and I am now wondering why I should pay his 'reckons', his opinions, any more weight than, say, my own?
I'm 72 and have seen some ten different governments of various lengths of tenure, and my opinion is different from this 'rich-lister businessman /entrepreneur.'
One of our downslides in critical thinking being shown more clearly recently is our credence in celebrities, as if being famous gives us more intellect or specialised knowledge, when all it does is feed our confirmation bias. I bet, Gypsy, you gave this citation to listen to Murray Who? because he believes what you believe.
I ask, rather, what specialised knowledge or intellect he brings that I should pay attention, and even defer to?
This is on my mind because I have had to run a critique as part of my position in an organisation of a racist, misogynist, extremist ranting letter which had been published with a long CV of the author of the rant. The purpose of the CV was to add weight to this man's opinions, when it did nothing to show any expertise or specialised knowledge.
Funnily enough, this ranter was also a CEO and company founder, like Murray Who? All it did for me was to confirm my incipient confirmation bias about the predilection of famous persons (especially CEOs and business founders) to pontificate about things they have but lay knowledge of. Lucky I'm not famous, eh?
Murray Bolton is a highly successful businessman. He has also taken on the power of the government in court and won, and is now helping other kiwi's stuck in the insane MIQ system get home. And you are?
Doesn't mean he is right, a good guy or has any other admirable traits though.
His reckons are as good as anyone else's and no more.
This uncritical admiration and views that people have something of worth to give the nation because they have got/acquired lots of money is a less than desirable trait.
It seems to be more prevalent (eg the people who admired John Key because he had worked in the money markets) and this is sad as NZ was, in times past, a country that it was said 'Jack's as good as his master.
Bolton was an admirer and supporter of the Clark government. It’s ok if you disagree with him. As far as I know that’s still allowed.
How does that qualify him to pronounce on what is/was the best or worst government in 60-70 years? To pronounce so certainly that we are directed to a podcast to be enlightened!
Who I am gives me no more right to pronounce upon the worth of 10+ governments more than any other reasonably well informed citizen.
That was my point. Murray Bolton from the evidence you have given, his age and business experience, and ability to pay for and win a court judgement is not an experienced politician, historian or political scientist whose measured judgement upon the relative worth of 60 years of NZ government can be trusted.
I do know that I would be looking at factors such as financial, health and employment statistics, I'd be looking at foreign policy, housing and poverty rates. I'd be researching quality of laws passed, quality of life and average income, environment and social issues, treatment of minority groups, the penal system and the use of state powers.
At least I'd be arguing from a position of some credible knowledge.
I've not heard the podcast. We were not given a reference. Does Mr Bolton traverse any or all of those areas for ten governments?
So it comes down to my other point. Why do we so accept the opinions of the famous, the celebrities, those successful in one aspect of life, be it business, acting or singing and promote them above those whose knowledge and experience is directly applicable?
👍🏼 🏆
"How does that qualify him to pronounce on what is/was the best or worst government in 60-70 years?"
The same as it qualifies you to disagree.
"Why do we so accept the opinions of the famous, the celebrities, those successful in one aspect of life, be it business, acting or singing and promote them above those whose knowledge and experience is directly applicable?"
Who are these people "whose knowledge and experience is directly applicable?" The politicians themselves? The opinion of successful people such as Bolton has value because they are the ones doing the hard yards to make NZ successful. They employ people, pay taxes. They lead organisations at the coalface of the very problems politicians create.
I haven't agreed or disagreed with you or Bolton about the issue of which was the worst or best government.
My issue was whether I should be persuaded by the reckons of a businessman, whether anyone should be persuaded by the reckons of such folk.
If he were to pronounce on what was the most business-friendly government, he might well have a worthy opinion.
But I offer the contention that good government is more than business friendliness.
Even though this government has been very well world ranked for business friendliness. Here's the 2020 ranking. First!
https://www.companiesoffice.govt.nz/insights-and-articles/nz-ranks-first-for-ease-of-doing-business-for-the-fourth-year/
"My issue was whether I should be persuaded by the reckons of a businessman, whether anyone should be persuaded by the reckons of such folk."
I don't think you should be. My view is we should take into account a range of opinions from people we respect, even if we don't always agree with them.
Yes I have come across these types of comments where outrageous things, way outside their expertise are said and then the press (often from a press release) states XXXX YYYY was president of the Waikikamoocau Sand Fertiliser Works and owns the local Ford dealership. Because of this somehow they feel their opinions seem to be worth more than Joseph Blow who has a degree in English Tudor History and is being house husband to three children, or Mrs Taitama who runs the Kohanga Reo, or any person in the street. The NZ cringe really.
The press really should be asking sometimes, and your expertise is…….
There was a radio station recently that got some OTT letters and handled them very well on air.
I usually say 'I give nothing to racism, sexism'. etc. This puzzles people sometimes and gives me the chance to explain my view that what they are saying may be racist, sexist etc.
Good luck with the critique. I find looking at the HR Act is good to start with. Pretty simple Act and stark about its impact.
Thanks, Shanreagh. I've just seen the letter resulting re the extremist ranting and it addresses the issues.
Joseph Blow sounds a bit like me, actually.
Dear oh dear!…you really know how to ..sugar coat things…Adrian.
My observation of the past 4 years is that there is too much deference to the Public Service and other advice, and not enough going with what Labour actually believes (think policy platforms etc). It may or may not work, but Little's rejection of the advice and instead opting to lead Cabinet in disestablishing all DHBs was a welcome departure from that in my view.
Add Chris Hipkins to that list. He has stopped the money basis of Education, and managed to keep things intact during 4 rounds of covid.
Kris Fafoi has changed the credit trap significantly, and has slowed the "cheap labour" supply. That has not endeared him to many.
Megan Woods has beavered away at housing, using her people skills to get the opposition onside.
Jacinda Ardern has demoted Ministers who failed their brief or did not live by the morality and honesty expected.
Gezza does not like Ardern and is carefully leaving out qualities we have noted throughout her tenure.
Relationships with other Leaders, recognised by her peers.
Crisis management. Both short and longterm. She has excelled in her managment of the following in the last 4 years.
Fruit fly incursion, Micoplasma Bovis, Kauri dieback, Myrtle Rust, an erruption and the sad outcome, Two terror attacks, Covid 19 and now Delta, plus dealing with the problems of 501s being sent here by Dutton. The other big issues are climate change inequality and being a good Treaty partner, Trade and controlling the huge influence of runaway tech giants and their Algorithms.
The current memes have changed from "It is Winston telling her what to do" to she is "Going to resign and take a better paying overseas position"
Her very few flashes of anger and disparagement born out of the silly comments from the opposition, can be understood. Generally she is patient and answers questions openly, saying she will find out/come back if needing more detail to answer. Her clear full answers where she heads off journalists' loaded questions is a lesson in control. People generally said they were amazed at her tolerance.
This is a Pandemic. It is not over, and we are finding how to live with it while keeping our little boat afloat. A great number of people voted for this Government. Some have wavered in the face of the necessary decisions to keep us safe, and others are threatened by the coming changes, so they may also have doubts. The facts show an amazing balancing act.
Qualities not on the original list.
Honest, openminded, people centered, thoughtful, strength of character able to rise to the occasion able to face problems squarely and plan a way forward able to hold the respect and loyalty of those she is leading.
She clearly loves NZ. I hope she is PM for as long as possible, as given all those extra problems things are bad but by overseas standards more than acceptable with big efforts being made to turn many problems round.
Just my not important opinion. Oh and a disclaimer. I am a Life Labour Party member, and I am proud of the Labour legacy.
Congratulations on the life membership, that's fantastic recognition. I'm also a Labour Party member (VFL) and volunteer (did 5 years as campaign and LEC treasurer) but not at that level!
Hipkins' work on the Education System is an excellent example of a minister pushing past the public service advice, and possible 3 Waters could be the next big example of that. And that was a good reminder that good work has been done and continues, and it can be a long slog on intractable issues. Perhaps my frustration is that some issues have been beyond the political will of the voters rather than cabinet, like redesigning the tax system.
Gezza does not like Ardern and is carefully leaving out qualities we have noted throughout her tenure.
Neither of those assertions is true, Patricia. Another epic fail mind-reader. I do not pretend to know what you think or how you think. Please do not think you can do that with me. You can’t. You are not me. You do not see thru my eyes.
I do not adore Ardern, like some do, & see some faults or shortcomings. It is incorrect – in fact it’s false – to say I do not like her & imply that is my entire assessment.
I have NOT carefully left out qualities you think she has that should be in the list. False again.
Imo, Ardern has many of the qualities I came up with. My mission was not to write them around any particular PM, but to come with my ideal list, from my own perspective. Then see who seemed to meet all or most of them.
Adrian, how long has that "lifetime" been?
Those qualities are all mostly “transferable”. That skill set could almost be used in an authoritarian administration or…cough…a neo liberal state like New Zealand with a monetarist consensus among main parties. You know–free as possible in and out flow of capital, deregulation, managerialist culture, penetration of public infrastructure by private capital…that kind of thing.
What is missing is a requirement for a class left political understanding, analysis and action plan.
Be very happy to see your attempt to set out briefly how that would look.
I don’t see my list as in any way neo liberal. Applies just as well to a capable left wing leader, imo.
Certainly Gezza. Just from my perspective who needs highly efficient, even likeable leaders, that end up reinforcing capitalist class power via the neo liberal state and legislation?
It is time for a referendum on monetarism–it has never been put to the vote–not when Roger slipped it in, and Ruth aggressively continued TINA–because for the main parties structural neo liberalism is the default cultural and legislative setting via Reserve Bank Act, State Sector Act etc.
"It is time for a referendum on monetarism"
To have a referendum you have to be able to ask a clear question that can, normally, be answered with a YES or a NO. It is possible to have more than two answers but they still have to be in a simple form. ie I choose A or I choose B or I choose C.
What on earth is you question going to be?
I've gone right off Jacinda myself….first Ireland and now the French ,beating the AB's…that was the last…straw.
Yeah it is hard to keep opinions on an even keel when these sorts of things are allowed to happen. Must be the Guvmint's fault some where some how
Hi Gezza
Are all these qualities of equal value or are they different.
For example, to me, John Key scores very highly in the strong category whereas Jacinda Ardern doesn't however Jacinda scores highly on the clear vision but John does not
So do you have a ranking for what qualities are higher or lower or what qualities you're willing to 'let go' if the other qualities are there
Also, in your opinion, how would Bill English gone as leader if he'd had a proper go of it
How on earth did English not have a 'proper go' at it?
His fav line was 'there is no silver bullet'…maintained the Key legacy….'kick the can…down the road=let someone else …deal with it.
He was PM for less than a year (from memory) and a great deal of that was electioneering
Whatabout his other 'go' at it!
In October 2001, English replaced Jenny Shipley as the leader of the National Party (and consequently as Leader of the Opposition). He led the party to its worst defeat at the 2002 general election, and as a consequence, in October 2003 he was replaced as leader by Don Brash.'
I'm talking about being PM
Twice leader of National two time looser.No Charisma .the Boag constrictor doubling down.
Key was able to hold an audience English made them fall a sleep.
fix email address
'Honest John' was a strong proponent of Dirty Politics, as was and is the current 'leader' of the opposition. Jamie-Lee Ross, Rodger 'Merv' Bridge, Sandra Goudie, Matt King, Michelle Boag, Hamish Walker, Michael Woodhouse, Andrew Falloon, Todd Barclay, Nick Smith, etc. etc. – all part of Key's 'legacy'. Just imagine – thank-you Peters!
As leader of the Nats for 3 years, including 10 months as PM, English did have "a proper go of it"; personally I think English, Bridges, Muller and Kaye would all be doing a better job of leading the Nats than the incumbent, but that's not saying much, is it?
I listed them in no particular order orher than when they popped into my head & I wrote them down, Pucky.
I haven’t considered weighting them, or assigning them a priority, because I see them as a desirable set & see no useful purpose in trying to assign one quality as of more value than another when the caucus, & the national situations, can change at each eiection & throw any such attempt up in the air.
I think the language around the idea of 'leadership' has become so debased through overuse, that no useful discussion of the topic is possible.
I was not happy how Lees – Galloway left. Not sure if there was more to the situation. Being demoted as a minister would have been enough.
Aussie cricketers. Anyone surprised?
Former Australian cricket captain Tim Paine drops bomb about coach in explosive tell-all – NZ Herald
Not at all.
I had a wry smile when some Australian cricket official said Paines behaviour did not meet the standards expected of Australian cricket.
Yes I was going to say his behaviour seems to fit exactly what we now expect from them!
Nice 10 minute segment on Gardening Australia about John Clarke and a conservation project he was involved with in his later years.
(Starts @ 43:37)
very cool.
"New Zealand will always be his spiritual home" 💚
Thanks, 'twas a nice interlude in my work day
For those following the other day, Millsy has retracted his comment about Greenwald wanting Trump back in. He's now released from the ban list.
. https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-20-11-2021/#comment-1835088
If you want to make claims about people (commenters, public figures, people in the news), then please back up. You can express opinions but once it crosses into details about people or events etc, you have to make the argument and support it with evidence.
From the Policy,
The reason for that is to keep the debate robust. When people have links to understand a comment in context, the debate improves. Likewise when people explain their thinking.
Occasional educational short bans are likely from me over the next few months as I don’t want to be spending my time chasing people up on this. If you find your comments aren’t appearing, check the Replies tab to see if one of the mods has replied to you. If you can’t see the Replies tab, ask for help.
Oh well, a legion of The Standard readers can delete their “Free Millsy” posts then.
C'mon … Tat Loo was far better comedic value than Millsy.
I miss the early cv, not so much the later version.
And me old mate Draco, where’s draco.
yeah, haven't seen Draco for ages. Did he get a ban?
I miss marty too.
Yeh i miss marty. I think he just got pissed off with the place. Or did he get a ban?
I was wondering that too, I know he had some health issues so that was my concern about his absence.
Radio silence from DTB for a few months now. Hope he's OK
CV has gone off on a self imposed exile. Fallen a long way from a former Labour party candidate, into the Trump/Antivax rabbit hole. Sad to see a capable mind fall prey to nihilism
Hope he makes a full recovery
Sorry to hear that CV has fallen down the Trump/Antivax rabbit hole. It was an inevitable trajectory.
Start believing one pro fascist far right narrative and it is only a small step to the next one, and the next after that.
I too was once a big admirer of CV and regarded him as a fellow lefty, until that is, he fell for the regime change conspiracy theory in Syria.
It was all down hill from there.
I would call Tat Loo part of the 'Post Left' now. Kinda in the same vein as Tim Pool, Michael Tracey, Jesse Singal, Aimee Terese etc and so on.
Mind you, he has been always like this. I think there is an article floating round from 2004 by him that was pretty much anti-vaccination.
Here is the article, incase anyone wants to know,.
\https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/itat-looi-to-trust-or-not-to-trust-the-basic-question/5BSDLC62LNKNKOFZVW4PKZ5ZAQ/
lol. Lonely PR.
Pity Millsy doesn't retract this load of bile as well
.https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-20-11-2021/#comment-1835076
hard to make sense of that tbh. Was it insulting PR that was the problem, or the description of Rittenhouse?
I don't mind people insulting me as long as I can insult them back
that doesn't usually work out so well though.
Here was me thinking he was describing himself 🙃
so the grandswill organised protests got less vehicles going through our cities than a bunch of boy racers on a casual night out . thoughts on how huge the mother of all protests wasnt?
Yep , the numbers were embarrassingly low, no matter how creative the camera angles got.
.
Had the same thought about camera angles.
my favourite "camera angles" case was Prebble doing a live piece to camera for ACT (yes, it was that long ago). It was in Hagley Park, for breakfast tv ISTR.
Anyway, Prebble was in front, and behind him were half a dozen or so supporters with a huge number of balloons. Sure enough, a slight gust of wind momentarily parted the balloons and through the crack there was nobody for at least a hundred yards, save one person in the distance looking vaguely towards the camera as their dog sniffed around a tree.
That was ACT's massive rally in Hagley Park, lol
Hope this doesn't cause inadvertant offence to anyone, but I spotted it in my feed on a very rare visit to my Farcebook page last night & I thought it was funny….
I'm reluctant to admit it, but perhaps Jordan Peterson was right about compelled speech and hate speech.
Women Are Human opinion article:
Gender Critical Feminism Soon May Be Criminalized in Canada
If he wasn't then, current law change proposals may change that.
Jordan Peterson is a good man.
He was never against trans people, it was the changing of the wording of the laws he was against.
From my perspective, he represents Dworkin's quote on men who view women as private property. I concede he seems to have been prescient on this topic.
(Am I allowed to suggest his approach and notoriety may have contributed to the adversarial positioning on this topic? No? Damn…)
So, what did you think of the article?
'(Am I allowed to suggest his approach and notoriety may have contributed to the adversarial positioning on this topic? No? Damn…)'
No doubt.
I haven't read it yet, I'm still dealing with idiots over the Kyle Rittenhouse trail
It confused me. I still can't get my head around things like this (I probably never will)
Then it just made me sad, not sad like going to the cupboard and going to grab a biscuit then remembering you're on a diet sad, but sad as in this is how the worlds of 1984 or The Handmaids Tale begin.
Your bang on there PR.
As for Jordon Peterson…..I am glad expresses the opinions he does (mostly). A lot of it I don't agree with it, some I do.
Watched him interviewed by a feminist Helen (sorry forgotten her name) journalist.
I think its good he raises stuff about men and their contribution and service and how its men who die in wars, who CS more and who are murdered more.
But I think neither of them stressed how female biology has disadvantaged us. We are phyically weaker and we have time out for child birth and mothering (I know things are changing with this, but that is why women have more rights now).
Also most men are wired to pursue sex with females (biologically for survival of the species) but within this men have viewed women as sex objects for their gratification. Obviously this isn't the whole picture. But an importatnt one that contributes to inequality in the sexes.
'Also most men are wired to pursue sex with females (biologically for survival of the species) but within this men have viewed women as sex objects for their gratification. Obviously this isn't the whole picture. But an importatnt one that contributes to inequality in the sexes.'
– Yeah I get this
as intended.
Hi Molly, I came across this excerpt from a longer video. In it Africa Brooke says how she had decided what to think about Peterson, and that gets 'unpacked'.
I understand JP can get on people's nerves. I think this clip is worthwhile and gets very touching near the end when JP reveals the impact 'the haters' had on him.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v8v7ueICWuU
Thanks, gsays. Will have a look after getting through the webinar below.
Did you have a look at the article?
Yes, I have read the article. Thanks.
Since my awareness of this issue (BDMRR) was raised by y'all here on TS I have been reading, learning and getting informed.
I am frustratingly not going to engage in the discussion as there are quite a few threads intertwined and I much rather korero in the flesh where subtleties can be expressed. I can see integrity on both sides of the issue but get turned off when debate goes to the extreme end to make a point. Most of the extremities come from overseas.
Also, as McFlock demonstrates below, chatter gets shut down quick or bogged down in petty point scoring.
It's not like Ta-Nehisi Coates is a run of the mill "hater". If "one of the foremost black intellectuals" is calling you out on something, best have a wee think.
He may be "one of the foremost black intellectuals" but hes certainly not a good comic book writer, this guy on the other hand is, and before you put on your big boy pants, Just Some Guy is black and Bisexual (since labels seem important to you), the first youtube clip is from 2018 just to let you know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ7wFvxMqpA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86228e0Edt4
Dunno about any of that, already watched one damned video of not much today, surprised I bothered with that.
The point I made was that if someone one describes as being a foremost intellectual satirises one's material (and more specifically how one's core audience recieves it), then some self reflection is in order. Peterson obviously respects Coates. Possibly should reflect upon the criticism, then.
Just saying his comics are crap
I'll bear that in mind.
Ironically, I have found Petterson to be one of the better, deeper, braver thinkers I have come across.
Most deep thinkers would read more than one pamphlet co-authored by marx before participating in a public debate about capitalism vs marxism.
still fighting the lost battles of centuries ago?
The sad fact is there hasn't been an intellectual argument capable of supporting Marxism since Marx; and his own arguments have been disproved worldwide ever since his were made.
Yet Jordan Peterson is the one who is uneducated about him……
Quite plainly, he was.
The point was that a supposedly deep thinker turned up to a debate using only a cursory reading of the communist manifesto to discuss marxism in general.
I'm not defending Marx, Žižek did that. Quite competently. Maybe he'd have had a more difficult task if his opponent had done his homework and actually knew the subject area at hand.
The usual transparent tactic when anyone points out marxism's manifest, catastrophic failures is to pretend 'oh that wasn't real communism'.
Peterson responds that when someone says that, what they're really claiming is 'that if I was in charge of the revolution, it would have all turned out differently'.
Which of course is nothing but a monumental conceit.
same with…'crony capitalism'…oh that's not real..Capitalism…!
You haven't been paying attention.
Capitalism is not complicated – it requires no appeal to an arcane theory that can only be understood by the high priests of the cult. It's a rather simple set of economic tools and ideas relating to business formalism, rule of law and markets. Neloliberalism on the other hand was the stupid theory that these useful tools would work if you applied them to everything.
Explain to us how financial derivatives work.
You also seem to be conflating markets with capitalism.
@arkie
Search engines are your friend.
No appeals to high priests and arcane theory huh? lol
Marx & Engels at the click of a button for those who are interested in some reading.
OK so in short words you might understand – derivatives are a risk mitigation tool. Within limits they work very well, outside of those limits they don't.
Like say double entry book-keeping, the technical details take a bit of learning, but the basic idea is simple enough to understand. Unless of course you're determined not to.
Otherwise I see you've completely failed to address the substance of my comment and wandered off down a path of your own bewilderment.
There’s no need to be so unpleasant surely, this is not complicated stuff!
Double-entry bookkeeping also predates capitalism, how interesting!
It’s important to have an understanding of that which you are criticising, that’s why I also posted a link to Marx’s bibliography.
But in the end, I guess it all depends on how determined you are, either way.
Redlogix is very determined to be fucking obtuse and obnoxiously argumentative. He wears us down, but without convincing.
Marxist apologists get the same treatment from me as do libertarians and fascists. That’s not persuasion I’m doing here – it’s scorn.
@ arkie and In Vino, you might find some ideas of retired clinical psychologist Daniel helpful in regard to understanding scorn – I did.
@ DMK
Boundaries. Marxism takes the good idea that the extremes of wealth and poverty should be moderated – and goes too far by demanding equal outcomes. Wherever and whenever this boundary is stepped over the actual result has been catastrophe.
You wouldn't suggest a 'reasoned discussion' with the ChCh mass murderer – and he only killed 51 people. Why would I engage with an ideology that directly, openly requires the violent eradication of entire classes of 'oppressors'?
You seem to be confirming that Communism and Capitalism,don't exist in any pure form.
I agree.
As for ' Why would I engage with an ideology that directly, openly requires the violent eradication of entire classes of 'oppressors'?
That bogeyman Communism is subjected to 'eradication' ,it is anathema to Capitalist construct.
Cuba is a good study.
Cuba cannot be allowed to thrive,in case it encourages other countries to adopt its ideology.
After 60 years of embargo and surviving it is now in crisis.
Trump enforced financial restrictions on Cuba.
Remittances from the U.S ,a large source of finance were halted.
Without historical Venezuelan and Soviet assistance, the screaming economy' is near…strangulation.
Capitalism still relies on …debt slavery….that's the…reality.
Newsflash: Stalin died a long, long time ago. Capitalism is busy committing global ecocide, right now.
Stalin died a long, long time ago.
And marxism should have been buried with him.
As for Hedges – long on the alarmism that will get him clicks, short on actual solutions.
@Blazer
Our definitions are not aligned which makes a conversation unproductive. I outlined my working definitions here.
Capitalism, conservatism and socialism normally co-exist in a balance in all modern societies. Some tilt more toward one pole than the other. However:
When the idea of liberal capitalism – which is essentially the actions of the individual within a market context – is taken too far you get neo-liberalism or libertarianism.
When the idea of conservatism – which is essentially about making what is known and trusted work in a stable fashion – is taken too far you get fascism, race purity and tyranny.
When the idea of socialism – which is about moderating the extremes of wealth and poverty, and protecting the most vulnerable – is taken too far into imposing equal outcomes you get communism and all the cultist woke variations it’s morphed into.
Using these rough definitions, ordinary conservatism, capitalism and socialism are within the bounds of acceptable political discourse. The others are demonstrably worthless ideologies.
You would be taken seriously if you actually knew what Communism is, or read what Marx really wrote. Instead of mindlessly repeating the US idea, that Communists are any Government they don't like.
Hint. A State that has a Dictatorship, and Nomenclatura., is by definition, not Communist.
Any more than another Dictatorship that claimed to be Socialist, while murdering millions, was Socialist.
Even more funny. When it is noted that "Communist" China pulled millions out of poverty more recently. Your fellow parrots start saying. "China is Capitalist, not Communist".
I am a supporter of a Democratic mixed economy. But note that Marx was largely correct. Though much of his analysis was the product of his time, it is still one of the best descriptions of Capitalisms working. We are seeing the results of the Marxist theory "diminishing rate of return on capital” in the developed countries now. It is only revolution or the threat of revelation that removes the Kleptocracy. Such as the UK after WW2. Where they started looking after returning soldiers and workers for fear of becoming Russia.
Not Marx's wishes. A description of reality.
Revolutions tend to end up with the most violent anti democratic and ruthless arseholes on top, which is why they I certainly am against them. Some circumstances, such as Batista’s Cuba, Czarist Russia, pre revolution France,, for example, make life so bad for so many that it becomes inivitable.
The US one is a good example. Resulting in a Constitution of "checks and balances" which ensure that "The Masses" will never have Democratic power over the "elite". Little different from Soviet Russia or China. Except the USA does propaganda, fooling the populace, better. As your repeating it proves.
You would be taken seriously if you actually knew what Communism is, or read what Marx really wrote.
You didn't need to read the ChCh's mass murderer's 'manifesto' to know it was a worthless pile of shit. So why the fuck would anyone take Marx's driveling nonsense seriously>
Surely you jest!
Marx is a legend…
' Marx increasingly became preoccupied with an attempt to understand the contemporary capitalist mode of production, as driven by a remorseless pursuit of profit, whose origins are found in the extraction of surplus value from the exploited proletariat. The precise role of morality and moral criticism in Marx’s critique of contemporary capitalist society is much discussed, and there is no settled scholarly consensus on these issues. His understanding of morality may be related to his account of ideology, and his reflection on the extent to which certain widely-shared misunderstandings might help explain the stability of class-divided societies'- excerpt Stanford Eof Philosophy
One would assume because they aren't so determined to remain ignorant or make such outlandish false equivalences.
Marx is a legend…
So was Freud.
@arkie
Yes I do that Aussie cunt an injustice – he only managed 51 dead. Marx and Engels however openly justified and advocated for the eradication of entire classes of people.
You can back up that claim with a citation of Marx & Engels doing such a thing?
On one hand you claim I know nothing about marxism, and then demand I educate you about it!
Use a search engine.
Can't find a citation to back up your claim. Eh. Redlogix? Because, as we know, there isn't one.
Pontificating on "what Marx said" without actually bothering to find out what he really said, when it has shaped so much thought on the "Political economy" including influencing a whole lot of Economists, including the ones that disagreed with him, such as Milton Freidman, shows a refusal to inform yourself.
Like commenting on Western philosophy while ignoring the bible.
Commenting on modern economics while ignoring Marx, is failing to educate yourself.
How many people have been murdered in the name of Jesus Christ, who, if he really existed, only advocated for violently overturning money lenders tables?
Because, as we know, there isn't one.
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot would all beg to differ.
On this site we do not accept: making assertions that you are unable to substantiate with some proof.
I am not asking you to educate me.
Marx supported a “Democracy of the Proleteriat”.
Not something Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot, were noted for.
Bought on by “class struggle”. Not necessarily violent. Mentions Trade Unions and other usually non violent organisations as a means.
A Utopian ideal to my mind, but close to the ideals the USA pretends to value.
Marx was being descriptive, not prescriptive.
Marx in his final and culminating paragraph of the The Communist Manifesto stated:
The ambiguity of the word 'forcible' was not in question for the three of Marx's most prominent followers who all engaged in violent revolutions aimed at eradicating those they declared to be the 'oppressor' class.
Weasel all you like – the stack of bodies still buried every metre or so under the Highway of Bones is proof enough for any sane person.
Like the US revolution, eh?
If you had been a serf or factory worker in Czarist Russia. I think you would have been rather keen on “removing the oppressor”.
Unfortunately replaced with another. Would you have supported anyone who “violently removed” Stalin?
Which sort of confirms what Marx said about the History of class struggle.
We will forget about the fact that the US “highway of bones” must be getting in numbers close to Stalin by now. But they are mostly Brown people, so, who cares.
So Marx and Engels didn't openly justify and advocate for the eradication of entire classes of people. Who'd've thunk it!
Some extra reading for those who are interested: Status of Violence in Marx's Theory of Revolution
Your denial of the fucking obvious is contemptible. Unlike you I did get to travel over that grim Highway I mentioned above – on the way to a gold processing project in the region. You on the other hand cannot even bring yourself to name it.
The last para of the paramount document in all of marxist literature calls for a forcible overthrow of the social order – an instruction carried out to the fucking letter by actual marxist revolutionaries and you pretend it has another meaning.
You demanded I provide a cite and I did.
Your conflation of the actions of 20th century dictators with the readily accessible writings of 19th century political activists is not only disingenuous but also inaccurate, as you yourself have demonstrated.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/26/communists-capitalism-stalinism-economic-model
the paramount document in all of marxist literature
No that would be Capital, the communist manifesto is a political pamphlet.
Capitalism was built on the bodies of millions from the very start. From the late 17th century onwards, the transatlantic slave trade became a pillar of emergent capitalism.
Spare me the tedious whaddaboudism.
Slavery is an ancient almost universal feature of most known historic societies – pre-dating capitalism by millenia. For a relatively short period slavery and an emerging capitalism overlapped, but very quickly capitalist industrialisation led to the direct end of chattel slavery. (A process incidentally led largely by the same class of 'exploiting' Europeans Owen Jones manages to completely ignore.)
If not for this capitalism you hate so much, slavery would be as commonplace and endemic as ever. Statistically you wouldn't even be alive and able to type out your complaints about it here.
Capitalism is a great system … for the capitalists. Pretty shit for the workers, the environment, wildlife, democracy, or ethics. IMNSHO is it a spiritual force of evil
https://twitter.com/ianpaulwright/status/1452985473580904448?s=20
Tedious whataboutism, me? lol
very quickly capitalist industrialisation led to the direct end of chattel slavery.
From your provided link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade
How generous of those European nations to abolish slavery after benefitting from it for 400 years.
I don’t hate capitalism, where did I make that claim? Why do you feel the need to fabricate the words of others?
@arkie
Slavery in the 21st Century. OK so lets look at this – because clearly you didn't. Well bugger me there right at the top, a map showing where it remains most prevalent. All arguably the last places on earth you'd hold up as liberal democratic, developed 'rule of law', capitalist style nations.
How generous of those European nations to abolish slavery after benefitting from it for 400 years.
More denial. Virtually every major historic society featured slavery due to their lack of industrialisation. The only time and places where slavery has been made both permanently illegal and largely abolished have been those featuring a capitalist industrialisation – which really started to dominate from the early to mid 1800’s.
@roblogic
Anything from Twitter = Automatic Fail
So slavery didn’t end, as you claimed, it is still ongoing despite the law. In a globalised economy those on the top still benefit from it no matter where it occurs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
but the number of people currently enslaved around the world is far greater than the number of slaves during the historical Atlantic slave trade.
A typical piece of intellectual dishonesty that has to erase context to even look faintly plausible.
For a start the human population has increased roughly ten-fold in that period. Failing to correct for that alone makes it a meaningless comparison. To make matters worse it compares one subset of slavery, the trans-Atlantic trade, with the total global trade today.
For a second – those places where it remains most prevalent are the least developed places on earth. Nothing much of any 'benefit' comes from these places that could not be done more efficiently and profitably without slavery.
And while this residual slavery is of course deplorable – at maybe 40m people and maybe $150b of revenue it represents a diminishing and very minor fraction of the total global economy.
Given that chattel slavery is virtually non-existent in all the developed, industrialised, capitalist nations that feature a reliable rule of law and property rights – the obvious way to fully and finally eradicate slavery is to extend these conditions everywhere.
"Anything from Twitter = Automatic Fail"
lol, you're missing out mate. 😛
I agree with Marx's view of capital as an "egregore"; a disembodied entity with its own demonic life force; which describes the modern multinational corporation such as BlackRock perfectly. This is a popular essay on the topic:
Marx on Capital as a Real God – 𝗗𝗔𝗥𝗞 𝗠𝗔𝗥𝗫𝗜𝗦𝗠 (wordpress.com)
Tangential: A freaky cyberpunk short story in the vein of "Snow Crash":
The Gig Economy – Zero HP Lovecraft (wordpress.com)
The closest I've seen anything truly demonic was visiting Perm 36 in 2001.
RL. Are you really trying to argue that Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin only existed because Marx?
All the hundreds of other bloody despots in history. Many before Marx was even born. Robespierre, Pinochet, Hitler, the Shah, Stroessner, Suharto, Videla. The many that came out on top after revolutions. All due to Marx?
Not the circumstances of the time?
Are you really trying to argue that Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin only existed because Marx?
They absolutely relied on marxism as their justification. All monsters need an ideology to give cover to their madness – and classical marxism is certainly not the only one they turn to.
And as I've carefully outlined, but everyone ignores, ideology is what you get when you take a good idea in isolation, like fairness, purity, or freedom and make it into a totalising solution that will deliver some future utopia. Which is promised to be so wonderful that any amount of destruction and horror is justified to achieve it.
Which is essentially what all of the tyrants you have named share in common.
Slowly getting to the point, but resisting at every turn.
That it is not the utopian ideology that is the problem.
It is the wannabee tyrant that uses it as an excuse.
Christianity was used as a reason for tyranny, for centuries. Causing more deaths than any other "ideology".
Now we have US, exceptionalism.
It is the wannabee tyrant that uses it as an excuse.
In the case of marxism the tyranny is baked in. Because the goal is equality of outcome but all humans are different – the revolution must impose it's new social order. The oppressor class must be overthrown and replaced with the worker class – who will magically deliver the promised utopia. (Exactly how remains mostly unexamined.)
Authoritarian personalities are deeply drawn to this prospect, they imagine they will be the ones doing the 'redistributing'. All the petty tyrants – and they lurk everywhere – come out of the woodwork like the zombies in World War Z to inflict their revenge for every slight and hurt they've carefully nurtured.
Those who have lived through communism say that it was not so much the brutality of the state they feared – because they expected that – but that no-one not even their family, could be trusted not to betray them. As a result everyone spoke in lies all the time.
.
LOL … more like one of the High Priests of the Critical Race Theory Religious Cult of which you are a particularly ambitious & dogmatic local cheerleader.
Somewhat akin to a Church of Scientology enforcer.
That wasn't my description. It was Peterson's.
But don't let that stop you. Please, tell me more about how much I have written here about Critical Race Theory. If I'm a prominent cheerleader of it, please provide the links.
Funnily enough, my own searches haven't brought up anything about me "cheerleading" CRT, but a post by advantage suggests that not only is the chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff a woke liberal who sees uses for CRT in his work, but he seems to have read more Marx than Jordan Peterson. At least that dude does his homework.
My own contribution to that discussion: pretty much just a lol.
I guess my thetans were weak that day, or whatever.
I got about half way through and gave up. It doesn't really explain the Bills and how they are likely to be interpreted and acted upon.
You have to go to the annotated links for that detail, but it is there..
eg. No. 3 – Combatting hate speech and hate crimes: Proposed legislative changes to the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code – Canadian Govt site.
..and it is an opinion piece.
yeah, I don't even have my head around the NZ legislation, not going to deep dive on the Canadian's, so left not much the wiser. She might be right, or she might be over egging it. It's a problem, including in NZ, that we don't have many straightforward explanations of legislation (not just in this area).
On the subject of systemic racism in medicine. This was mentioned on Morning Report. That pulse oximeters have an inbuilt bias. The readings for those with non white skin aren’t as accurate.
“Pulse oximetry devices used for warning of low blood oxygenation in covid-19 and other diseases may be missing three times as many cases of occult hypoxaemia in black patients as in white, says a study report published in the New England Journal of Medicine.1
Researchers looked at over 48 000 pulse oximetry readings in 8675 US white patients and 1326 US black patients, comparing them with more accurate arterial oxygen saturation measures taken almost contemporaneously.
Among white patients whose pulse oximetry readings were 92-96%, the proportion who actually had arterial oxygen saturation below 88% was 3.6% (95% confidence interval 2.5% to 4.6%). But among black patients the proportion actually below that figure was 11.4% (7.6% to 15.2%).
“Our results suggest that reliance on pulse oximetry to triage patients and adjust supplemental oxygen levels may place black patients at increased risk for hypoxaemia,” noted the study authors, from the University of Michigan Medical School. The study is the latest of many to find that current assumptions and algorithms, often derived from heavily white patient populations, may work against black patients.2”
When products are developed by predominantly white folks, they fail to take colour into account. The same has been found with facial recognition software.
No easy fix, unless tertiary institutions take affirmative action more seriously.
So if the doctors don't have an unconscious bias based on ethnicity, the equipment does.
https://www.apsf.org/article/apsf-statement-on-pulse-oximetry-and-skin-tone/
"women like me"
How about "men like me", who mimic women outwardly and to different degrees of success, who have an innate feeling of womanhood without any of the experience of being female.Who feel more comfortable in life presenting as a woman , looking like a woman ,behaving as if they were a woman
Women they are not, unless we are to tear down our understanding of reproduction of mammalian species, based on binary sex.And totally demolish the language that has evolved around that
Anyone keen to start degendering French and Spanish etc?
The language distortion aids in the derailing of transparency and open discussion.
It has real world impacts, often negative for women as a class.
We are barely human in the eyes of some. And this movement is a MRA movement for middle class white male to assert their dominance over NON Males and bros will be supporting it. In the end, bros will not suffer from this, only non bros. And thus it was ever since.
I have long maintained the idea that men will never be allies of women. And this movement demonstrates it so nicely.
We are no longer a class. We are something that anyone can be and no one can define.
"men will never be the allies of women"
That's a sad perspective. Most men love the women and girls in their lives, and would protect them ahead of their own life. Don't focus on the criminals when most guys are quietly working to make the world better.
I am not focusing on any man in particular.
But the 'class' of men that is the other 50% of the worlds population is not a womens friend. Not even to their 'own' women such as 'their' wife or 'their' child.
Please point where 'guys' are working quietly to make things better for women by allowing men into female prisons, female shelters, female rape crisis centres, female changing rooms, female toilets, female swimming hours, female sports, female awards, female hospital wards and oh allowing male lesbians to demand women suck their lady dicks in the name of lesbianism.
I can't wait to see that, cause all of these things are being pushed through not by criminals but by lawmakers, lawyers, opinion makers, journalists, and the likes. Unless you are calling these people criminals and i am just missing the 'joke' in all of that.
I think you'll find that half of the misguided activists pushing these idiotic reforms are idealistic millennial women with their heads in the clouds
You will find that if you look long enough at the Labour Party – the one which is currently in a single majority government – that it is not a bunch of idealistic millennial women with their heads in the clouds – but full of men and women being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars each to make this into law, and they are cynically enough to push that into law, knowing full well that non of that will ever really affect them.
You will find that if you look long enough – and you have all the submissions to watch for the spectacle of rude manners, the condescending bullthittery that came courtesy of the idealistic middle aged women of the Labour and Green Party – that Mme Kere Kere, Mme Wall, Mme Russel et al, – are really pushing hard for this to become law.
You will find that if you look long enough, that it is our lawmaker in government who push that shit on women – no debate and all – and non of the men in parliament are saying a single word but then maybe they are cowards. Who knows.
You will find that if you look long enough, that maybe it is time for the silent blokes who love 'their women' and 'their mothers' and 'their daughters' to maybe just maybe start speaking up on behalf of 'their' women.
And if they can't do it for the women, do it for the safeguarding of girls.
You will find that if you look long enough, that maybe it is time for the silent blokes who love ‘their women’ and ‘their mothers’ and ‘their daughters’ to maybe just maybe start speaking up on behalf of ‘their’ women.
The problem with this solution is that two generations of men who have done so have been shouted down by women for having the temerity to “think they can speak on women’s behalf”.
And even the “tone’ of that sentence I quote, and the negative, sarcastic-seeming framing of the word “their” (apparently implying men still think they own women in this country, which is nonsense) makes men want to back out & leave it to the girls & women to fight their own battles. Which is precisely what we have been told to do over & over again by misandrist females for several decades now.
Change your language, & your approach, if you want help from men. And don’t ask “men” to change other people they can’t, any more than you can.
Newsflash: Men are not all the exact same creature, always collectively perceiving & acting in their own common group interest. That thinking is shite.
We are unique all individuals & how we relate to the women in our lives is unique & individual too. The biggest influence on who I am, how I relate to people, & how I perceive things was my mother, not my father. Though I loved them both equally, nature & nurture has made me more like mum than dad in personality. And I’m comfortable with that – because I think it makes me a nicer MAN.
🙄 * We are all unique individuals…
well then, I won't expect YOU to help women – who may or may not be 'yours', as i won't change my language. But then, i don't expect men to help. I don't expect men to be allies of anyone who is not a man. I simply expect men to stand by and do nothing. As usual.
But thanks for stating it so clearly.
@ Sabine
But then, i don’t expect men to help. I don’t expect men to be allies of anyone who is not a man. I simply expect men to stand by and do nothing. As usual.
I help women all the time. I also help men. Anyone who asks for my help generally gets it, if I can actually help. That’s how I was brought up.
I don’t know your full story, but some of your recent comments that I have read – and your pseudonym – point to a harrowing background, & who knows maybe even PTSD. Apparently your experience has prejudiced you against men in general.
I am sorry if that is so, but don’t expect to get away with frequently lambasting men in general because of your distorted perception of what “men” are like. You are not a man & you don’t know what you are talking about. Talking only to others who feel the same way about men will never open your eyes to what most men are really like.
And lambasting & hectoring “men” will just see you mentally categorised as a man-hater & ignored because of it, imo.
@Gezza, well said. I gave up earlier because my motives were impugned. It seems that our interlocutor is projecting anger at the wrong targets.
"we are all unique individuals"
"I'm not"
https://youtu.be/KHbzSif78qQ
Happening now.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2021/11/18/french-dictionary-adds-gender-neutral-pronoun-causes-controversy/8671553002/
What starts off as politeness and empathy (addressing transwomen as if they were in fact truly women ) can end being embedded in policy and law, to the detriment of women
Jane Clare Jones does a good satire here on your point:
The Annals of the Terf Wars
(Doesn't change anything, but may raise a wry smile.)
she stopped in 2018, she needs updating.
this one fits too. https://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/10/04/this-is-how-they-broke-our-grandmothers/
And no that one ain't funny, but then history is never really funny when one is part of the losing 'class'. Right?
Thanks. Sabine.
Good article, and good links.
Still exploring the links, but will share one of the closing sentences:
"oppression is not a misunderstanding"
Yeah had this discussion one with some women who were lamenting their negotiation skills and deciding that they had to get better at it.
They discovered that all the men who started with them started on significantly higher salaries than they did. They had decided it was their own fault – most were more skilled and experienced than the men.
I pointed out that the person who was responsible for employing them was the only person who knew all the salaries he was starting people on and that he had made conscious decisions about each and everyone including the context of gender and the obvious disparity. These were conscious decisions to pay all the men more. The only person who could have fixed it at the time was that person.
Therein lies most of the problem – if the people who could fix it wanted to do so they don't need committees, investigations, protests, unions, legislation, etc to do so. They just need to exercise the power they already have. That they choose not to is deliberate.
+1
Just putting this out there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HqvbdOWpc8
JP satire — I enjoyed it anyway
https://youtu.be/2fcWGB-RABM
He nailed the voice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXb4h6cXvX4
Very long (>3hr) webinar on ROGD (Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria).
Stella O’Malley, psychotherapist & author — ‘How Clinicians Work with ROGD’
Jude, a parent campaigner — ‘From Theory to Reality: When ROGD Hits Your Family’
Dr David Bell, Former Consultant Psychiatrist, Ex-Governor at Tavistock & Portman NHS Trust — ‘First Do No Harm’
Dr Lisa Littman, Public Health Researcher — ‘Psychosocial Factors & Gender Dysphoria’
Questions from the audience.
Timestamps for each on the Youtube site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tInYPMCHOzo&t=99s
Thanks again Molly and for all who post on this.
One third of NZ voters think the PM is performing badly. That's after a drop in her approval rating.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/newshub-reid-research-poll-growing-number-of-voters-believe-jacinda-ardern-performing-badly.html
When you consider the angry right and the disappointed left, that is a remarkably low number. Compare leaders of other democracies: Boris Johnson, for example has an approval rating of 25% (source: YouGov). In fact, the Evil Cindy Dictator is so unpopular in her country that
she must resignno other leader in any Western democracy has a higher approval rating (except Angela Merkel as she bids farewell). And this is after a slump..
👍🏼
Backups failing to move to the correct place ran the database system out of disk space.
I'll change that properly later today.
Site was down for about 30 minutes.
They printed this. They're proud of it. And worse, they probably think they're funny. Because she looks like a horse, geddit?!!11!!1
Racists gonna racist
OH!
I was looking at that damned thing, and didn't get the "Mrs Ed" comment at all. Must have gotten so distracted by the overt racism that it overloaded my fuckwit-detector.
What I don't get is why the address of the place isn't up.
I'm ok with that in this case – it's so beyond the pale that the right whingers will end up throwing money at them. As it is, nobody can boycott it because airbnb has already ditched it from their listings.
This way, they don't even get the oxygen of complaining about freeze peach and vuctumhood.
Although NZ being small as it is, it'll probably get out in a couple of days. Even if the owners don't out themselves to explain how it was just a joke, or what have you.
Those owners are own-foot-shooters living in some strange Pākehā-supremacist world where being Māori is apparently some kind of social crime. 🙄
That story almost beggars belief.
Thanks for the update. Noticed that when trying to link to 22-11-2021 Open Mike and ended up with 21-11-21 Open mike showing.
All good now
Barry Soper being a real pushy prick thinking his questions are the only important ones at the stand up this afternoon. Jacinda is more patient with him than I would be.
He stormed out!
But remember, it's the woman PM who is "flaky" or does a "hissy fit" or is "emotional", etc, etc. Not Barry with the balls.
On the off chance anyone missed it, NZ moves to the Covid Protection Framework (aka traffic lights) 23:59 Thursday 2 December. Next Monday's cabinet meeting will decide which level each region transitions at, but Auckland has been flagged as being Red.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/22/nzs-new-covid-traffic-light-system-what-it-means-for-you/
thanks. That's also the best explanation of the traffic light system I've seen so far.
Never thought I would see the day when this blog waxes lyrical about Jordan Peterson, guy who wants to roll back all the social gains over the last 50 years and restore a puritanical patriarchial society where all forms of pleasure are outlaws, and LGBT's have no rights.
No wonder I dont post here much any more. You guys are getting worse and worse each day.