Open mike 22/07/2012

97 comments on “Open mike 22/07/2012 ”

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1. Carol 1

   22 July 2012 at 7:05 am

   More crony capitalism, this time from Nick Smith?

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7324559/Money-for-mates-claim

   Former environment Minister Nick Smith provided $180,000 for meetings to resolve disputes over the Mackenzie Basin, despite officials advising it was expensive and unlikely to work.

   Smith resigned from Cabinet this year over scandals at ACC, and the Sunday Star-Times has learned ministry chief executive Paul Reynolds has met new minister Amy Adams over concerns about the funding applications.

   The Mackenzie Sustainable Futures Trust, set up to mediate between farmers and environmentalists clashing over projects in the Mackenzie Basin and Waitaki Valley, was chaired by National MP Jacqui Dean.

   And Ecologic, a firm run by Smith’s friend Guy Salmon, received about $87,000 in consultancy fees from the “collaborative process”, documents released under the Official Information Act show.

   Meetings cost around $25,000 each, of which around $18,000 a time went to Ecologic.

   Labour environment spokesman Grant Robertson said the documents showed: “Money for mates and special treatment.”

   How has this government got any credibility with, even a small percentage, of NZ voters?

   And any return to cabinet by Nick Smith looks likely to be later, not sooner.
   • Dr Terry 1.1

     22 July 2012 at 8:59 am

     This Government knows just one thing – that New Zealanders, in large part, give not a toss about “credibility”.
   • Fortran 1.2

     22 July 2012 at 11:45 am

     Carol

     I always thought that Salmon was an out and out Greenie – opposed to National in every way ?

     Am I wrong ?
     • Augustus 1.2.1

       22 July 2012 at 6:06 pm

       He was on the National party list in 2002 (I think). Missed out narrowly because of English’ and National’s abysmal showing.
     • Jilly Bee 1.2.2

       22 July 2012 at 9:28 pm

       I’m sure he used to be, Fortran – I was surprised, to say the least when he turned up as a Nat candidate. I always look sideways at converts, be it politics, religion or health issues. I used to be a relatively heavy smoker but threw it away, cold turkey in 1991. I’m now extremely intolerant of any smoker and nearly always gag at the smell of cigarette smoke, but I digress. Over the last 20 odd years there has been heaps of ‘converts’ on the political stage, some these make me gag too!
       • lostinsuburbia 1.2.2.1

         22 July 2012 at 10:30 pm

         Isn’t he leading the auckland Council’s report into alternative transport funding? So he can’t be a mate of Brownlee (which gives him some credibility)

         Perhaps the stuff’s “story” is an underhanded way by one Nats faction to undermine the Council’s work and take a shot at Smith’s camp at the same time. The timing is too perfect.
2. Huginn 2

   22 July 2012 at 8:07 am

   An extraordinarily radical, and optimistic series of articles from the Financial Times.

   Financial Times, 3:40pm Tuesday June 12th, 2012
   [Beyond scarcity] Redefining labour
   —
   Izabella Kaminska
   —
   This is the third installment in FT Alphaville’s “Beyond Scarcity” series, a somewhat radical look at the impact of technological progress

   Read the full article at: http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/06/12/1037001/redefining-labour
3. David H 3

   22 July 2012 at 8:30 am

   They got English on the Nation spouting the same old bullshit that I have heard every time he has opened his mouth in the last 20 years.
   • Carol 3.1

     22 July 2012 at 8:36 am

     Which is why I’m not watching The Nation. Is he blaming Labour still, and talking about “Planet Labour”, while saying his (distorted) figures are the basis for building a brighter future?

     I know I’ll just get angry and start shouting at the screen.
     • Dr Terry 3.1.1

       22 July 2012 at 9:04 am

       I understand how you might feel Carol, but just keep up your incisive comments in the comment pages, and you will be doing a most effective thing, have confidence in what you are doing for it will count in the end.
       • muzza 3.1.1.1

         22 July 2012 at 10:20 am

         Dr Terry, I agree with your sentiment to Carol to keep posting her posts are throughtful and interesting, but the comment about it coming right in the end, is likely to be incorrect.

         Something I have wondered about having been on this site among others for some time, is that there are some clever people, who seem to have common sense about them. Sure not all of us will agree on everything, nor should it be that way, but on the core components of what NZ needs to function, and for communiities to reconnect, and propser again, all of them, not just the ruling/corporate class.

         What might it take for some of those people of common sense and logic to begin to work together in a way that might lead to some actual “coming right” of the political landscape?

         Supporting any part of the current system is, in my opinion supporting the accellerating misery, of more and more sectors of society. As greater numbers drop off the bottom rungs, including people who thought their life was comfortable.

         Until the people take back, through active political participation, not just voting or protesting, and certainly not just blogging, the coming right, was lost decades ago.

         Cheers
         • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.1

           22 July 2012 at 10:58 am

           What might it take for some of those people of common sense and logic to begin to work together in a way that might lead to some actual “coming right” of the political landscape?

           You my man, are on the money.

           1) A media organisation
           2) Financing
           3) The attention and support of interest groups from across the political spectrum who value a strong, independent, livable NZ.
           • muzza 3.1.1.1.1.1

             22 July 2012 at 11:17 am

             Indeed CV, I will add to the list..

             Some analysis of slim margin electorate seats, at either regional or national level, depending on where one would target.

             A well thought out , delivered speech or intervention at an opportune moment, which could grab some media attention, as I feel it would only require something fleeting to “catch a break”

             Behind that none the less would require some time and planning, no question, but I believe it can be done, with the right core start up.

             Which interest groups would be necessary you think?
             • Colonial Viper …

               22 July 2012 at 11:28 am

               Some analysis of slim margin electorate seats, at either regional or national level, depending on where one would target.

               Absolutely. You apply co-ordinated pressure from the grass roots from the start, to both sitting MPs and aspiring candidates. I found this recent exchange relevant (not sure if you caught it).

               http://thestandard.org.nz/an-auckland-view-on-labours-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-495717

               Behind that none the less would require some time and planning, no question, but I believe it can be done, with the right core start up.

               Which interest groups would be necessary you think?

               Sure can. You will already know a few capable people who would be in. As do I. As do many here.

               As for the specific interest groups. That’s a bit tricky to answer, and in reality depends on who is leading the group and the nature of their exec, as to how productive discussions might be. It would have to be a cross section of provincial/rural and city interests without doubt, however.
               • muzza …

                 22 July 2012 at 11:59 am

                 Undoubtedly we will know some capable people, and there are a number on this site for sure.

                 Can’t understand why people who put their energy into supporting failed parties. which no longer represent them, or most of this country, would not want to put that energy into trying something very different.

                 The way to get in, is to be able to relate to all people, know what it is thats important to them, should be the same things important to you and me, which would make it wasy enough to tap into. Representing exactly what the current system does not, would be straight forward enough, and picking a small number of key facets that one would stand for, a start for ten.

                 Not so much that it would require “negative campaining”, because that can always be turned into positive easily enough, just that any independents, or working in tandem, would not require a full policy set in order to appeal.
       • just saying 3.1.1.2

         22 July 2012 at 10:32 am

         x2. I’ve learned a lot here from contributors like Carol and the informative links and analysis they provide. If I can learn new stuff, so can the hundreds of other readers. Learning makes (and is) a difference.

         Muzza below, I don’t see anyone claiming things will “come right”, just that Carol’s contribution can and will “count”

         edit – Muzza’s post has turned out to be above rather than below.
         • muzza 3.1.1.2.1

           22 July 2012 at 10:55 am

           JS – for something to count, to me would imply that things come right, and I guess there are a couple of points I would make.

           If anyone does a good deed, or gives wise information or knowledge etc, whatever it might be that is positive, or leads to a positive outcome, means that action has counted. The other side can also be that , it counted, but in a way which may not have been intended, either way all actions count in the end, its what that end, or the journey towards it becomes…

           With politics still playing such big part in affecting negatively, and the media supporting in its role, in order to make it count, things have to change, they have to come right, but how will that happen?

           Its a very broad query, with many possible ansers, but ultimately only a small number really matters, like people finding out what really natters in life, not just to them, but to all of us. Those things which really matter to sustain life are relatively few, we all need them, the rest is simply not necessary, the reason people are not getting what they need, greed!

           DT’s comment on it counting is correct, what it might count for if we dont all inspire in some way, is the variable.
     • mikesh 3.1.2

       22 July 2012 at 9:07 am

       Going by those parts of the speech which were broadcast on The Nation, he seems not to have mentioned Labour at all. In fact within the limitations of the neoliberal outlook it was a reasonably sensible speech, stressing the need to reduce NZ’s high indebtedness, the “black clouds” on the horizon overseas etc.
       • Colonial Viper 3.1.2.1

         22 July 2012 at 11:02 am

         You make Labour irrelevant by not mentioning Labour.
4. Uturn 4

   22 July 2012 at 9:35 am

   When I heard the Nats conference was being held at Sky City, I was overcome with joy. Finally, the nastiest criminals in NZ are off our streets for a few hours.
   • freedom 4.1

     22 July 2012 at 10:09 am

     Which must be why the Nats needed 80 Police officers.

     80 Police to stand guard inside a private commercial premises? (to keep the riffraff in?)
     80 sworn Officers paid from the public purse to stand guard in Sky City ???

     Is that not a job for, i don’t know, the Security Guards of Sky City? Why are NZ Police being used as security guards for a private meeting of a radical and dangerous political group that is threatening to overthrow the sovereignty of Aotearoa? Is this a good use of public funds?

     It’s not like anyone ever gets got robbed or raped or hurt or runover or damaged or threatened in Auckland so i guess they were just lucky there were plenty of spare hands to help out.

     (p.s. loving the new comments editor)
     • marsman 4.1.1

       22 July 2012 at 11:57 am

       Exactly freedom. I had the same thought. National want to privatise everything but when it comes to shielding themselves against protests over their nasty policies they rely on our tax-payer funded Police Force. It’s par for the course for them though, they happily call other people bludgers while they themselves shove their snouts into as many troughs as they can.
     • Vicky32 4.1.2

       22 July 2012 at 7:48 pm

       Which must be why the Nats needed 80 Police officers.

       That’s pretty blatant!
5. marty mars 5

   22 July 2012 at 10:25 am

   Kia ora koutou

   Thank you to the moderators for creating a pfree zone this week – i have enjoyed it a lot and i’ve found I have much more inclination to enter debates, instead of dissipating energy on unowho – my choice of course but thanks.

   i wonder about macrons. If we are going to use te reo Māori then surely macrons need to be used, even if just in the original post. Please I am not getting at anyone because I slip up as much as anyone else. For me, I cut and paste from a document into the comment. āĀ ēĒ īĪ ōŌ ūŪ. I am just raising this for discussion and i wonder what others think and i repeat i’m not getting at anyone.
   • just saying 5.1

     22 July 2012 at 10:37 am

     I’d love to know how to make my computer do macrons. I feel guilty omitting them. In the meantime, I’ve often wondered if doubling the letter that should have a macron is equivalent, (for example Maaori)?
     • marty mars 5.1.1

       22 July 2012 at 11:01 am

       cut and paste is old school but it works – for instance if someone cut and pasted the letters with macrons in my comment above into a doc and then added common macroned words to that file then they have it sorted, apart from knowing what macron, and where. For that i check with the Māori dictionary where I cut and paste words into that doc. The comments area can take cut and paste direct from the doc or the dictionary – but as i say – old school but works.

       http://www.maoridictionary.co.nz/
       • just saying 5.1.1.1

         22 July 2012 at 11:20 am

         Making a file of copied macroned words, good lateral thinking.
         Once in the file, I guess you can change the font etc. to match that in the text you are writing?
         Bit complicated for a non-whizz like me. But if that’s how it’s done…
         • Kotahi Tane Huna 5.1.1.1.1

           22 July 2012 at 11:50 am

           On a windows operating system, you can find macrons and much much more in the “character map”. Look for it in the “system tools” submenu, in the “accessories” folder on your “start” menu. I keep a link to it in the task bar.
           • just saying 5.1.1.1.1.1

             22 July 2012 at 12:26 pm

             Thanks Kotahi Tane Huna.
             Wow, so many interesting things in ‘accessories’.
             I’ve found the macroned letters. How do I transfer them to the text I’m writing?
             • Kotahi Tane Huna …

               22 July 2012 at 12:46 pm

               Click on whichever special character you want to use, and press “select” and “copy” – then go to whatever you are typing and hold the “ctrl” (control) key down and press “v”. Alternatively right-click and choose “paste”.
               • just saying …

                 22 July 2012 at 1:27 pm

                 Testing: Māori.

                 Cool. Thanks KTH and marty mars. The letter seems to just transform into the correct form and size. Learning this is long overdue.
                 • ropata …

                   22 July 2012 at 4:24 pm

                   On windows, hit [Win]+[R] then type “charmap”, the keyboard is the fastest way to do anything
                   • just saying …

                     22 July 2012 at 5:57 pm

                     That is a brilliant short-cut. For other novices, Win + R allows you to browse (and run) all your computer’s programmes, documents and folders, – instantly.

                     I really appreciate these sort of tips. I’ve got a notebook…
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     22 July 2012 at 7:41 pm

                     Nothing like an old fashioned command line.
                   • Kotahi Tane Huna …

                     23 July 2012 at 7:15 am

                     Nice one. Thanks.
         • marty mars 5.1.1.1.2

           22 July 2012 at 11:59 am

           this site seems to convert automatically to Times New Roman the text when copied, but i haven’t checked too many fonts
   • Anne 5.2

     22 July 2012 at 10:50 am

     Thank you to the moderators for creating a pfree zone this week

     You beat me to it by a few minutes marty mars. My thoughts entirely. I find I’m now incentivised to read all the comments.
   • joe90 5.3

     22 July 2012 at 11:45 am

     i wonder about macrons.

     Fiddling around with some of the alt codes myself with no success, yet.

     .http://usefulshortcuts.com/alt-codes

     http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu/gotunicode/macron.html
   • weka 5.4

     22 July 2012 at 7:40 pm

     I agree, using macrons would be a good thing. Here is a resource on setting up macrons on computer keyboards and in emails.
      
     http://kupu.maori.nz/Show.aspx?page=10
      
     I’ve also been enjoying the PG-free week. The debate has felt quite different this week. I wonder how people are going to deal with him when he returns.
     • Jilly Bee 5.4.1

       22 July 2012 at 9:35 pm

       Ditto about the PG free week. I commented to Clare Curran on her Facebook page [about buying shares in Mighty River Power] and guess who sprung up with a typical comment, yep Pete George.
6. fender 6

   22 July 2012 at 11:25 am

   Just heard on the radio news that weet-bix brain Crusher Collins has told the pro-gambling skyshity brown nosers that crime in NZ always increases when there is a Labour Govt in power.

   I hope one of those pokie machines malfunctions real soon and takes the roof off.
   • seeker 6.1

     22 July 2012 at 10:00 pm

     rofl at the thought!!! thanks fender
7. Dave Kennedy 7

   22 July 2012 at 11:38 am

   Why we need Greens in the next government: http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/07/save-fiordland-green-perspective.html
8. Kotahi Tane Huna 8

   22 July 2012 at 12:12 pm

   Here we go. Anyone care to comment on the legality of Key’s share loyalty package?
   • freedom 8.1

     22 July 2012 at 7:29 pm

     would love to but the excessive profanity would make the comment unintelligible 🙂
9. joe90 9

   22 July 2012 at 12:13 pm

   Something else to ignore.

   http://www.desmogblog.com/black-day-july-greenland-ice-sheet?utm
   • Kotahi Tane Huna 9.1

     22 July 2012 at 12:29 pm

     Oh great. Another positive feedback kicks in much earlier than expected.
   • joe90 9.2

     22 July 2012 at 1:09 pm

     Science Bulletins: Shrinking Glaciers—A Chronology of Climate Change

     Analysis of Earth’s geologic record can reveal how the climate has changed over time. Scientists in New Zealand are examining samples from the rocky landscape once dominated by glaciers. They are employing a new technique called surface exposure dating, which uses chemical analysis to determine how long minerals within rocks have been exposed to the air since the glaciers around them melted. Comparisons of this data with other climate records have revealed a link between glacial retreat and rising levels of carbon dioxide in the air, findings that are informing scientists’ understanding of global climate change today.
   • Draco T Bastard 9.3

     22 July 2012 at 1:23 pm

     Interesting, it’s the high altitudes that are showing that drop while the lower altitudes track close to normal.
   • joe90 9.4

     22 July 2012 at 2:54 pm

     Thought so.

     http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/07/ideology-clouds-how-we-perceive-the-temperatures/

     The authors conclude that climate change has become perceived as a form of cultural affiliation for most people: their acceptance of it is mostly a way of reinforcing their ties to the political and ideological communities they belong to. And, since temperatures have become the primary thing the public associates with climate change, people now interpret the temperatures through a filter based on their affiliations, a process termed “cultural cognition.” In other words, we tend to interpret the temperatures in a way that reinforces our identity, and our connections with others who share similar political persuasions.
10. Morrissey 10

    22 July 2012 at 12:16 pm

    http://www.medialens.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=686:incinerating-assange-the-liberal-media-go-to-work&catid=25:alerts-2012&Itemid=69
    June 27, 2012
    Incinerating Assange – The Liberal Media Go To Work
    by David Edwards

    On June 19, in a final bid to avoid extradition to Sweden, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange requested asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy in London.

    Credible commentators argue that Assange has good reason to fear extradition to the United States from Sweden. Ray McGovern, who was a CIA analyst for 30 years, commented: ‘Not only is Julian Assange within his rights to seek asylum, he is also in his right mind. Consider this: he was about to be sent to faux-neutral Sweden, which has a recent history of bowing to U.S. demands in dealing with those that Washington says are some kind of threat to U.S. security.’

    Former US constitutional and civil rights lawyer Glenn Greenwald supplied some detail: ‘The evidence that the US seeks to prosecute and extradite Assange is substantial. There is no question that the Obama justice department has convened an active grand jury to investigate whether WikiLeaks violated the draconian Espionage Act of 1917. Key senators from President Obama’s party, including Senate intelligence committee chairwoman Dianne Feinstein, have publicly called for his prosecution under that statute. A leaked email from the security firm Stratfor – hardly a dispositive source, but still probative – indicated that a sealed indictment has already been obtained against him. Prominent American figures in both parties have demanded Assange’s lifelong imprisonment, called him a terrorist, and even advocated his assassination.’

    Greenwald argued that smaller countries like Sweden are more vulnerable to American manipulation. Moreover, Sweden ‘has a disturbing history of lawlessly handing over suspects to the US. A 2006 UN ruling found Sweden in violation of the global ban on torture for helping the CIA render two suspected terrorists to Egypt, where they were brutally tortured.’

    Greenwald concluded that Assange’s ‘fear of ending up in the clutches of the US is plainly rational and well-grounded’.

    Michael Ratner, president emeritus of the Center for Constitutional Rights and attorney for Julian Assange and WikiLeaks, explained the risks associated with extradition to Sweden:

    ‘Sweden does not have bail. Now, these are on allegations of sex charges — allegations, no charges — and they’re to interrogate Julian Assange. But despite that, he would have been in prison in Sweden. At that point, our view is that there was a substantial chance that the U.S. would ask for his extradition to the United States.

    ‘So here you have him walking the streets in London – sure, under bail conditions – going to a jail in Sweden, where he’s in prison, almost an incommunicado prison; U.S. files extradition; he remains in prison; and the next thing that happens is whatever time it takes him to fight the extradition in Sweden, he’s taken to the United States. There’s no chance then to make political asylum application any longer. In addition, once he comes to the United States—we just hold up Bradley Manning as example one of what will happen to Julian Assange: a underground cell, essentially abuse, torture, no ability to communicate with anybody, facing certainly good chance of a life sentence, with a possibility, of course, of one of these charges being a death penalty charge…

    ‘So, he was in an impossible situation… This is what Julian Assange was facing: never to see the light of day again, in my view, had he gone to Sweden.’

    Journalist Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the Pentagon Papers, stated:

    ‘Political asylum was made for cases like this. Freedom for Julian in Ecuador would serve the cause of freedom of speech and of the press worldwide. It would be good for us all; and it would be cause to honor, respect and thank Ecuador.’

    In considering Assange’s plight, it is also worth considering the tremendous good he has done at extreme personal risk. Coleen Rowley, a former FBI Special Agent and Division Counsel, commented:

    ‘WikiLeaks’ efforts combating undue secrecy, exposing illegal cover-ups and championing transparency in government have already benefited the world. And I’m convinced, more than ever, that if that type of anti-secrecy publication had existed and enabled the proper information sharing in early 2001, it could have not only prevented the 9/11 attacks but it could have exposed the fabricating of intelligence and deceptive propaganda which enabled the Bush Administration to unjustifiably launch war on Iraq.’

    Newsweek recently placed Assange first in its list of ‘digital revolutionaries’.

    Consideration of the hideous suffering inflicted on Bradley Manning, who is alleged to have leaked information to WikiLeaks, should generate further concern for Assange’s plight. A UN investigation found that Manning’s pre-trial conditions of severe solitary confinement were ‘cruel, inhuman and degrading’.

    As a serving US soldier, rather than a journalist, Manning was certainly more vulnerable to this type of punishment. But consider the ferocity with which US elites are pursuing Assange. A leading article in the Washington Post commented of Ecuador’s president Rafael Correa:

    ‘There is one potential check on Mr. Correa’s ambitions. The U.S. “empire” he professes to despise happens to grant Ecuador (which uses the dollar as its currency) special trade preferences that allow it to export many goods duty-free. A full third of Ecuadoran foreign sales ($10 billion in 2011) go to the United States, supporting some 400,000 jobs in a country of 14 million people. Those preferences come up for renewal by Congress early next year. If Mr. Correa seeks to appoint himself America’s chief Latin American enemy and Julian Assange’s protector between now and then, it’s not hard to imagine the outcome.’

    On Fox News, Roger Noriega, US Ambassador to the Organization of American States from 2001-2003 and Assistant Secretary of State from 2003-2005, observed:

    ‘It remains to be seen whether Correa will grant Assange asylum in Ecuador. If he does, it will put his country on a collision course with Britain, Sweden, and the United States, which has spoken publicly of charging Assange with crimes for publishing classified government documents.’

    ‘The Most Massive Turd’ Goes To Harrods

    The evidence, then, that Assange has plenty to fear is overwhelming. But not for the great and the good of liberal journalism. The Guardian’s Suzanne Moore set the tone on Twitter on June 19:

    ‘Seems like Assange’s supporters did not expect him to skip bail? Really? Who has this guy not let down?’

    She added: ‘I bet Assange is stuffing himself full of flattened guinea pigs. He really is the most massive turd.’

    Moore later complained that, after writing articles about Assange, she had suffered ‘vile abuse’. We wrote to her:

    ‘That’s a real shame, sorry to hear that. But how would you describe calling someone “the most massive turd”? Vile abuse?’

    Moore replied: ‘no I wouldnt call that vile abuse. I mean nasty threats etc.’

    She added: ‘also I would advise you to stop sounding so bloody patronising’.

    Moore later commented to Deborah Orr of the Guardian and ‘Victoria Peckham’ (Janice Turner) of The Times: ‘I never met him [Assange]. Did you?’

    Journalists found Assange’s predicament endlessly amusing. The Guardian’s Luke Harding commented:

    ‘Assange’s plight seems reminiscent of the scene in Monty Python where…..

    Read more ….

    http://www.medialens.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=686:incinerating-assange-the-liberal-media-go-to-work&catid=25:alerts-2012&Itemid=69
    • Draco T Bastard 10.1

      22 July 2012 at 1:38 pm

      IIRC, you’ve been pulled up before about such massive copy/paste. Also, you got the format wrong disregarding all of the quotes in the stuff you did quote (the article you quoted was quoting other articles).

      Really, we don’t need the full thing, just a teaser paragraph or two and your own comments on it.
      • Morrissey 10.1.1

        22 July 2012 at 2:18 pm

        IIRC, you’ve been pulled up before about such massive copy/paste.

        It was actually much bigger than this one. And I wasn’t just “pulled up”, I was banned for a month.

        Also, you got the format wrong disregarding all of the quotes in the stuff you did quote (the article you quoted was quoting other articles).

        You mean I missed out the hyperlinks. The article still reads perfectly well without them.

        Really, we don’t need the full thing, just a teaser paragraph or two and your own comments on it.

        Fair comment, except in this case, there was a long first part to the article, quoting serious and intelligent commentators (Ray McGovern, Glenn Greenwald, Michael Ratner, Daniel Ellsberg, Colleen Rowley) before contrasting their rigorous arguments with the ridiculous, cynical attacks on dissent by the hounds of the Murdoch empire, the Grauniad, and the rest of the “liberal” media.

        In other words, to appreciate just how atrocious and intellectually impoverished the herd behaviour of the corporate media is, some context was necessary. Those who want a context-free, unchallenging read, should read the Herald on Sunday.
        • McFlock 10.1.1.1

          22 July 2012 at 2:47 pm

          Yeah, whatever dude. 
        • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.2

          22 July 2012 at 2:50 pm

          You mean I missed out the hyperlinks. The article still reads perfectly well without them.

          Nope, I mean you fucked up the formatting and no it doesn’t. Here’s the second paragraph with it’s own quote:

          Credible commentators argue that Assange has good reason to fear extradition to the United States from Sweden. Ray McGovern, who was a CIA analyst for 30 years, commented:

          ‘Not only is Julian Assange within his rights to seek asylum, he is also in his right mind. Consider this: he was about to be sent to faux-neutral Sweden, which has a recent history of bowing to U.S. demands in dealing with those that Washington says are some kind of threat to U.S. security.’

          Quite significantly different from how you have it. Formatting is really quite important especially when you’re quoting an article quoting others. It makes it far more readable and shows who said what.

          Fair comment, except in this case, there was a long first part to the article,

          But that’s just it – you didn’t need to quote the entire first part. One paragraph is enough.

          Those who want a context-free, unchallenging read, should read the Herald on Sunday.

          What we really wanted was your own thoughts and comments which you didn’t supply. If I was just after a ‘read’ I’d go read a book (sci-fi or fantasy) but on the blogs I’m looking for discussion.
          • Morrissey 10.1.1.2.1

            22 July 2012 at 3:18 pm

            Quite significantly different from how you have it.

            No it’s not. I missed nothing. If that article was to be reproduced in a book, it would be reproduced as I did it.

            Formatting is really quite important especially when you’re quoting an article quoting others. It makes it far more readable and shows who said what.

            I made it more concise, actually. You are being quite ornery and willful here, but I think you can appreciate my point perfectly well.

            But that’s just it – you didn’t need to quote the entire first part. One paragraph is enough.

            In this case, one paragraph was not enough. As I’ve already explained to you, the entire first part of the article was necessary, in order to establish something of the weight of intellectual and legal backing for Julian Assange. It puts into perspective just how insultingly trivial, vicious and lightweight the corporate media attack on him has been, and continues to be.
            • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.2.1.1

              22 July 2012 at 4:50 pm

              If that article was to be reproduced in a book, it would be reproduced as I did it.

              This blog isn’t a book and, considering the books I’ve read, it probably wouldn’t be done that way there either. It may have been years ago to keep costs down.

              As I’ve already explained to you, the entire first part of the article was necessary, in order to establish something of the weight of intellectual and legal backing for Julian Assange.

              No it wasn’t. A single paragraph should suffice to get people to go and read the article you linked to.
    • Jilly Bee 10.2

      22 July 2012 at 9:37 pm

      Hey Morrisey, that’s far too much information for a Sunday evenings viewing.
11. Logie97 11

    22 July 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Boag discovers that education in our schools isn’t as bad as her leaders would have us believe. What a shame they don’t all visit the classrooms instead of listening to phone-in radio to establish their arguments.

    55 seconds into the Panel on Friday, listen to what the wind bag has to say. (leaving aside the fact that she was probably visiting Bayfield Primary School and not Bayview which is on the North Shore somewhere – can’t expect her to get it 100 pcnt right.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2525720/the-panel-with-michelle-boag-and-brian-edwards-part-1.asx
    • Morrissey 11.1

      22 July 2012 at 2:36 pm

      After that brief dose of realism, however, Boag was back to her very worst for the rest of the programme, indulging in her trademark swingeing rants against democratic institutions. Her “Soapbox” contribution consisted of a denunciation of the very idea of protesting against the government. It’s “way out of proportion”, according to Boag, and what the HELL are celebrities like Lucy Lawless THINKING of?

      But that’s what we expect from Michelle Boag. Far worse was to hear Brian Edwards eagerly endorsing and amplifying every single thing she said. After Boag’s condemnation of celebrity protestors, Edwards named a couple more: “We see Sue Bradford and John Minto at every single protest, whatever the issue,” he said, untruthfully.

      “Rent-a-mob!” said Boag.

      “Exactly!” shouted Edwards. “That’s exactly what they are! They’re a rent-a-mob!”
      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1

        22 July 2012 at 2:55 pm

        You know, I think all those people at the protest should now take a class action defamation suit against both of them. Bankrupt the bastards while showing that they’re amoral.
        • Morrissey 11.1.1.1

          22 July 2012 at 3:21 pm

          Boag (the dominant one in this case) and Edwards (her sycophant) are entitled to say what they like. The way to challenge people like them is, for a start, to ask them to back up what they say with at least some evidence.

          The person whose job it was to do that was the host, Jim Mora. He failed to do his job, again.
          • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.1.1

            22 July 2012 at 4:52 pm

            Well, considering that the host failed in his job then the protesters need to do it and that’s where the defamation suit comes in.
            • Morrissey 11.1.1.1.1.1

              22 July 2012 at 7:18 pm

              …the protesters need to do it and that’s where the defamation suit comes in.

              In this case, however, all Boag did was spray her customary abuse. There was nothing defamatory—unlike Dr Michael Bassett calling Nicky Hager a “holocaust denier” on Mora’s programme a few years ago.

              Even on that occasion, Mora said nothing.
              • Draco T Bastard …

                22 July 2012 at 8:24 pm

                I would call being called rent a mob defamatory as it’s an attack upon your credibility.
                • Morrissey …

                  22 July 2012 at 9:06 pm

                  I would call being called rent a mob defamatory as it’s an attack upon your credibility.

                  It’s patently absurd and untruthful, but it’s about as defamatory as calling someone a bastard.

                  Bassett’s brutal slander, on the other hand, was defamatory, not only because it was malicious and untruthful, but because he alleged that Hager had said or written something that is not only morally repellent, but possibly a cause for prosecution.
                  • Draco T Bastard …

                    22 July 2012 at 10:42 pm

                    It’s the untruthful bit that makes it defamatory as some people will believe it.
      • lefty 11.1.2

        22 July 2012 at 6:54 pm

        Boag and Edwards truly reflect the values of the different political parties they support.

        The bully and their enabler.
        • just saying 11.1.2.1

          22 July 2012 at 7:04 pm

          Astute remark
        • Morrissey 11.1.2.2

          22 July 2012 at 9:15 pm

          Boag and Edwards truly reflect the values of the different political parties they support.

          On Friday, every single thing Edwards said was in support of the National Party. He was so desperate to earn the approbation of Michelle Boag that he even parroted the prime minister’s lie about there being “little opposition to asset sales.”
12. joe90 12

    22 July 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Great, blame the victims.

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2012/07/russell_pearce_responds_to_bis.php

    “What a heart breaking story,” writes Pearce. “Had someone been prepared and armed they could have stopped this `bad’ man from most of this tragedy. He was two and three feet away from folks, I understand he had to stop and reload. Where were the men of flight 93???? Someone should have stopped this man. Someone could have stopped this man.

    “Lives were lost because of a bad man, not because he had a weapon, but because noone [sic] was prepared to stop it. Had they been prepared to save their lives or lives of others, lives would have been saved. All that was needed is one Courages/Brave [sic] man prepared mentally or otherwise to stop this it could have been done.”
    • joe90 12.1

      22 July 2012 at 12:41 pm

      Arseholes.

      http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/hate-group-leaders-use-colorado-massacre-to-attack-gay-people/news/2012/07/20/44108
      • Treetop 12.1.1

        22 July 2012 at 3:31 pm

        The by stander effect or Genovese syndrome is when a group of people expect someone else to help the victim or assume that help is on the way.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

        What I see in the latest gunman going beserk is that someone else is expected to stop the offender. Due to these awful firearm killings and woundings, research/education is required to equip people on how to react, providing this can be done with a high level of success.
      • joe90 12.1.2

        22 July 2012 at 3:55 pm

        This piece from The New Yorker makes me think it’s a little to late Treetop.

        Battleground America.

        When carrying a concealed weapon for self-defense is understood not as a failure of civil society, to be mourned, but as an act of citizenship, to be vaunted, there is little civilian life left.
        • McFlock 12.1.2.1

          22 July 2012 at 4:12 pm

          outstanding line.
        • Treetop 12.1.2.2

          22 July 2012 at 4:41 pm

          I will read the supplied link as I have only skimmed through it.

          On World Watch this morning after 7.30 am on RNZ in Honduras someone is killed every 72 minutes; with help from the US a couple of drug lords have been killed. People in Honduras are too frightened to leave their home and there are some suburbs where you do not stop your car.

          As lethal as class 1 drugs are in Honduras and that they end up in the US, guns are just as lethal in the US. I find it interesting how the US can see the damage that class 1 drugs cause, but not the damage of legally owning a firearm.
          • muzza 12.1.2.2.1

            22 July 2012 at 5:00 pm

            Um Treetop, the US sees how good the drug trade is around the world, because their military machine props it up, and in many cases actively participates in the trade.

            By the time you throw in the arming of drug gangs in Mexico for example, and the laundering of hundreds of billions of dollars in drug cash, I reckon what you have in america, is exactly what the fa*cists which have run the place for decades, will be pretty pleased with!

            America is a very sick country, and they are heading in a direction which is going to a severe impact globally, as if its administrators have not done enough damage of late!
            • lostinsuburbia 12.1.2.2.1.1

              22 July 2012 at 9:44 pm

              Yep but the corruption is trans-national. Look at the stories recently about HSBC washing drug money

              And then, given our lax company and tax laws we’ve now earnt the reputation as a grubby little nation too. Not to worry though, as it’s good for the PM’s mates
    • marty mars 12.2

      22 July 2012 at 1:23 pm

      Good stuff joe – i wouldn’t have believed this unless i read it. Seems like the senator wanted people men to jump the gunman, while he was shooting potentially 50 to 60 rounds a minute out of that drum magazine, whether they had weapons or not.
13. Uturn 13

    22 July 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Test post

    Ā
    Ā
    Ū
    Ū
    ū
    ī
    ē
    ā
    Ī
    Ē
14. seeker 14

    22 July 2012 at 3:38 pm

    As a mother I cannot get my head around this abomination from dear Paula, blood still boiling. Thank God for the Standard so I can vent a little.

    “We will be introducing social obligations, so they will have to enrol their child in early childhood education and get well checks at the doctor by enrolling the local PHO,” says Paula Bennett.

    So if you’re on the DPB not only will you be expected to go back to work, but from next year you must fulfil these new obligations or you will be punished..

    “If you have kids, then you will lose 50 percent of your benefit,” says Ms Bennett. “That’s the worst case scenario. We hope it doesn’t get to that.”

    No chance of choosing to keep your child with you. Not every one is qualified at the early childhood centres, thanks to Anne Tolley, and parents who find themselves in a difficult situation i.e. suddenly alone with a very young child/children who they would do anything to protect,are being forced to hand them over to strangers ( possibly unqualified) whether they want to or not.
    As a mother I would find that very hard to do. And now parents in dire straits will have to make a diabolical choice between this or starvation. Workhouse anyone?

    Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/National-outlines-welfare-reforms/tabid/1607/articleID/262127/Default.aspx#ixzz21JkYNmUj
    • ropata 14.1

      22 July 2012 at 4:37 pm

      rwnj nats need an alt. media narrative to distract from their financial crimes against nz…
    • Vicky32 14.2

      22 July 2012 at 8:15 pm

      No chance of choosing to keep your child with you. Not every one is qualified at the early childhood centres, thanks to Anne Tolley, and parents who find themselves in a difficult situation i.e. suddenly alone with a very young child/children who they would do anything to protect,are being forced to hand them over to strangers ( possibly unqualified) whether they want to or not.

      Exactly! I was fortunate to have a proper pre-school just up the road *when my son was small, and I went with him for the first year… it was not a day care centre masquerading as an early childhood place, but genuinely educational. If DPB mums can actually find a place like that near them now, it’ll be a miracle.
      (* The Aro Valley parents co-operative, 1987-90, I wonder if it still exists? It was lovely!)
      • millsy 14.2.1

        22 July 2012 at 10:15 pm

        National sees ECE centers as profit making baby farms, not institutes to stimulate young minds..
        • Draco T Bastard 14.2.1.1

          22 July 2012 at 10:43 pm

          +1
        • Vicky32 14.2.1.2

          23 July 2012 at 1:57 pm

          National sees ECE centers (sic) as profit making baby farms, not institutes to stimulate young minds..

          Exactly, hence Paula Benefit’s new rules to make using them compulsory.
15. Logie97 15

    22 July 2012 at 4:27 pm

    … and this comes from the woman who has been a major beneficiary of what the state has had to offer for decades and is now being paid mega-bucks (again from taxation) to lessen the chances of others getting on.
16. freedom 16

    22 July 2012 at 4:37 pm

    a little music, dedicated to Our Brighter Future
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukVNEwRLOUc&feature=related *

    *the only future the National Party policies will deliver to New Zealand
17. Kotahi Tane Huna 17

    22 July 2012 at 4:39 pm

    Interesting framing from The Herald.

    People who have taken in their neglected grandchildren are among the $2000-a-week beneficiaries who will be returning to work under welfare reforms, passed through Parliament this week…

    It included a 60-year-old East Coast grandparent, the second highest paid, with nine grandchildren – several of whom have disabilities. Their partner works full-time so the couple do not receive any unemployment benefits.

    The grandparent receives $1822 each week in Unsupported Child Benefit, for people caring for children who are not their own.

    Can’t see that being a vote winner.
18. Stephen Doyle 18

    22 July 2012 at 7:46 pm

    Big ups to the Maori Party over the tobacco industry. When will they start on the alcohol industry?
19. freedom 19

    22 July 2012 at 7:55 pm

    “Most dairies will have a roller door which comes down to cover the displays.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10821353

    Apart from the thousands of hours a year in lost productivity this will cost NZ, are not the tobacco products going to be constantly and repetitively in breach of the law when the roller door is lifted for every single sale hour after hour day in day out that in a world on the brink of major War and a thousand other horrors is little more than an accommodation of pointless mindless nimby bullshit. How many new ACC cases will there be from RSI or damaged hands as these roller mechanisms are simply not designed for that sort of repitative tasking, especially the cheap stuff that will be the most commonly type installed.

    At least all the holier than thou’s will be free to drive their carbon spewing barely maintained combustion engines along bitumen soaked highways arriving at the local store to select their fresh hypocrisy from aisle after aisle of wine and beer and gaze lovingly at the ever present GM tainted products filling the anti-competitively priced goods spewing from the shelves at their local supermarket before retiring to their central bank debt traps to enjoy some heartwarming vouyerism on their flatscreen guilt machine that was put together by a migrant worker whose once rich life on the land is now a mash up of drudgery and despair that keeps them one knockoff sneaker ahead of destituion.

    So glad the right Honourable Tariana Turia is looking out for New Zealand, how’s that TPP coming?
    • Vicky32 19.1

      22 July 2012 at 8:19 pm

       

      “Most dairies will have a roller door which comes down to cover the displays.”
       

      Which explained why my local dairy had one today! The locums for the usual owner, did not look very happy about it, as it seemed to be very unwieldy and uncomfortable…

      Excellent post, Freedom! I wonder who much the dairy owners had to pay for this unnecessary piece of nonsense? I can bet they’re unhappy about it, they’re on thin ice anyway..
       
      • Draco T Bastard 19.1.1

        22 July 2012 at 8:32 pm

        Which explained why my local dairy had one today!

        I saw dairies with those decades ago – put in place along with the one on the front to stop the smash and grab. It just wasn’t operated all the time.
    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      22 July 2012 at 8:30 pm

      Couple of supermarkets I’ve been to already have the solution and have had it for years – a closed cylinder with a sliding door and an internal turnstile that the check-out person operates when someone asks for cigarettes.
    • locus 19.3

      23 July 2012 at 5:36 am

      feel better now Freedom?

      awesome rant… which i guess may in part be due to the power of tobacco addiction
      • freedom 19.3.1

        23 July 2012 at 8:17 am

        a little better locus, but it has more to do with what is actually outlined in the rant as i for one have very good control of my addiction(s) be it tobacco or Family Guy or that source of all life’s goodness, coffee 🙂 (ok I admit I have no control over coffee )

        Why do people believe tobacco is an incredibly unique mass that somehow affects our world and its inhabitants independant of all other matter in the Universe? Mainly though, the real power for that rant came from the exessant hypocrisy ignorance greed and violence that is fuelling the destruction of the few vestiges of human potential left on this f’d up little planet.
20. seeker 20

    22 July 2012 at 11:13 pm

    Loved the woman who was protesting outside Skycity on TVNZ news to night who said many of our forefathers had come to New Zealand to get away from the inhumanity that was Victorian England, and now Nastional has almost replicated those hellish times again for us here and now – unfortunately with no Charles Dickens in sight!
    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/security-cost-conference-questioned-4979230/video

    Who would have believed this could happen again?

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