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Open mike 22/07/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:40 am, July 22nd, 2014 - 294 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

294 comments on “Open mike 22/07/2014 ”

  1. john oliver dismantles the american prison system..

    ..and private prisons in general…


    • ianmac 1.1

      And NZ is nearly at the same rate of imprisonment and we have privately run prisons. John Oliver would not have to change much for a NZ program (except for the death sentence and who knows which Political Party will call for that!)

  2. Skinny 2

    Reading the NZH this morning I have to say the rightwing media propaganda are doing their level best to put people off Labour. So according to yet another crap NZH poll Labour is not a man’s man party. Well I’m not sorry to spoil your National party, just enrolled a young man who thinks National suck with their youth rates he said I do a man job so expect a man’s pay and my first time vote is going to a party that’s supports that “count me in dude I’m voting Labour.”


    • but really..the fact is that so so many men are ignorant boofheads…so of course more of them vote for ‘the ignorant boofhead party’…

      (i blame their mothers..(duck..!..incoming..!..)

      ..but should i ‘do a cunnliffe’..and feel bad about that..?


  3. Gosman 3

    Interesting that Cunliffe acknowledged on Radio NZ National that his apologising for being a man wasn’t helpful and has impacted Labour support negatively.

    • mickysavage 3.1

      You are misreporting him. He said the particular phrasing which was taken out of context was not helpful but did not apologise for taking a strong stand on the issue of domestic violence.

      • Skinny 3.1.1

        Hey Mickey no matter how you look at it, what many outside observers have said to me is it just showed DC as not being as smart compared to Key. A touch of constructive criticism I’d say Cunliffe to me comes across as trying to hard to be everything for everybody. This inturn has the negative impact of being viewed as spinning too much rhetoric, or being disingenuous. The effect is people think he is a phony, which is not actually the case. Damage control would be to put David Parker forward to shoulder more of the party heavy lifting during the election campaign. Parkers stocks are up after putting forward a positive fiscal policy in recent times.

        • Ad

          They have those kinds of discussions in caucus.

          Cunliffe does not have the kind of popularity of John Key. One would hope in that circumstance that the rest of the caucus were unified and working overtime to compensate. It is the job of caucus to be unified, both during the election campaign and after.

          As for “trying too hard to please everybody”, welcome to the Labour Party. We’re more easily characterised in the negative: we’re not selfish shits, we’re not for things as they are, we’re not radical, we’re not for pissing people off, we’re not for the rich, we’re not for overdeveloping the whole country ……..and at the end of each of those negatives there’s a “but…” and a qualifier.

          • phillip ure

            ‘but’..we don’t do much about it..(?)

            • Ad

              Actually we do.
              Labour’s ’99-’08 administration were a far superior government to the current National government.
              They sure didn’t change everything, but they made massive positive moves.

              • and that is yet another ‘yes..but’..isn’t it..?

                ..and having been better than this bunch of bastards..?

                ..is a recommendation..?..of sorts..?

                ..kind of a low bar you have set there..eh..?

                • Ad

                  As if I needed to remind you to do your own research.
                  Work your google fingers on the economic, fiscal and social performance of the Helen Clark government.

                  • wd u care to have a go at explaining why the clark govt..in boom-times..did nothing/s.f.a. for the poorest..?

                    ..and i am well aware that cullen paid down debt to near enough zero..

                    ..and if by ‘fiscal’ you mean neo-lib paradigm..?..yes..that was well-served/nurtured/sustained..

                    ..and ‘social-performance’..y’say..?

                    ..and once again..pertaining to those poorest..?..for those nine long years..?

                    ..what exactly in ‘social performance’ did nine years of a clark labour govt give them..?

                    ..have i missed something..?

                    ..(and i haven’t even gone near that environmental-neglect of that govt..

                    ..or their kow-towing to the booze-industries..

                    ..i cd go on and on..)

                    ..and looping back to the present..these are the current hurdles labour has to clear..

                    ..’cos we have largely the same people..making the same promises again ..

                    ..promises that they broke last time..

                    • Ad

                      Have you missed something?
                      Since you had to ask, it’s pretty clear you did.

                    • that is yr answer to that (genuine) question of why the clark govt turned their back on the poor…?


                      ..and i am sure you are not such a dullard as to misread my words..as you claim..

                      ..lift yr game..!..eh..?

          • Skinny

            Yes you would expect the caucus to be right up Cunliffe’s arse doing everything they can to win this election, including being totally unified. On the other hand you can expect some new candidates to be non fussed at actually wining the election, given the reality that very few come through to becoming MP’s on the party list. I was speaking to one yesterday that actually said a loss would serve them better ( not that they were not campaigning hard) as the old guard will be removed and a depowering of the LEC regarding the selection of candidates would transpire. Incumbent MP’s are hard to roll, just look at the difficulties encountered by McCarten & Co had rolling Prebble.

            • Ad

              That list candidate should be named and removed from the list immediately.

              If they think a loss would renew the party, they do not understand the factional makeup of either the caucus or the list or the candidates. So they should be removed solely on the grounds of chronic naivety.

              Lyn did a post on Labour Party renewal recently. He was hopeful. But the best renewal Labour can offer itself is a good solid win. Once in power, it’s a whole lot easier to think about retiring.

              • Skinny

                What is this a witch hunt? All the candidate was saying is their best chance of making an MP is if Labour lost, looking at it in these eyes they are quite right. Let’s not beat up on someone who is green & keen prepared to pour their heart and sole, and a large slice of dough into contesting a National stronghold with no chance of getting through on the list because over a third of the list is made up of selfish MP’s who won’t do the Labour Party the honour of knowing when to call it a day.

            • Rosie

              Skinny, that is an alarming and disturbing comment that candidate made to you. If they are in any way considering their own advancement and internal party politics at this very critical point in time they should not have signed up for the job. If they want self advancement they should go and be a sales rep or something, a job with a bonus structure built into the pay. Our MP’s are there to serve the public, not themselves.

              It is also a slap in the face to all the hard working volunteers are going hard out for a win. They know where the priorities lie, they know, and we know that Key absolutely has to go.This must be the sole focus for any candidate from any Left party.

            • Te Reo Putake

              Name the candidate, Skinny.

        • McFlock

          what many outside observers have said to me is it just showed DC as not being as smart compared to Key.

          Can you imagine what the herald would have said if Cunliffe had refused to apologise to a sexual assault complainant for the abject failure of his government to keep the accused in the country?
          ITM would sure as shit have had bigger billboards out about that one. Thank fuck I get my hardware at Mitre10 anyway.

      • Gosman 3.1.2

        Nice bit of spin there MS. To apply the context to his comments this morning (which you haven’t done I note) he was talking about making sure Labour stays focused and not go off message. When asked about an example of Labour going off message he volunteered his apology for being a man remarks. Now admittedly he did state they were taken out of context but also stated they damaged Labour’s support and basically admitted he shouldn’t have used such terms. So the question I have for you is do you think he should have used such words in his speech?

        • framu

          ” but also stated they damaged Labour’s support and basically admitted he shouldn’t have used such terms.”

          because they were taken out of context! FFS! – you say this yourself!

          once again, your attacking cunliffe for how the media reacted AFTER he said something

          now im not going to be so foolish as to think that this sort of BS from the media and the likes of time wasters like you shouldnt be expected – but the spin is all from you and the media.

          • Gosman

            Cunliffe didn’t state that the media should report his comments more accurately. He stated he and the rest of Labour should be more focused and not stray off topic such as his apologising for being a man comments. Do you think his comments were off topic like Cunliffe obviously does?

            • Te Reo Putake

              That’s not what he said, Gosman. The reply you’ve mangled was to a question about Mallard’s moa.

              • Gosman

                No it was in relation to a direct question about an example of straying off topic. Cunliffe could have used the Moa comments from Mallard but instead used his apology for being a man as that example. Why else did he bring it up?

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Nope, wrong again Gosman. The question was ‘how can you refocus on things you are already focussing on?’ Nothing about “straying off topic” as you have made up. Cunliffe then talks about the taking out of context his comments that day. Something you’re doing now, btw. He also makes the point that he was speaking in the context of Labour party policy, so very much ‘on topic’.

              • alex

                Please watch 3 news where he in no terms states he made a mistake saying “I sorry for being a man” as well as his red scarf and the holiday. If Labour are to have a chance then he needs to zip his lip, I bet within a week he will have made the same mistake. It is just a matter of time now, after election day we can re group and get rid of the old wood and get a good leader that has the backing of his MP’s as opposed to a few union thugs.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  You think the membership, affiliates and caucus of the NZ Labour Party are “a few union thugs”? How odd. The real question post election won’t be whether the leader has the support of the MP’s but whether some MP’s still enjoy the support of the party. There may be some difficult days ahead for a few of the real dead wood variety.

                • Murray Olsen

                  Who are “we”, Alex? Your rubbish about union thugs makes me think your “we” includes Blubber Boy, David Garrett, and a neutered penguin. Nice try, but as you’d know if you’d watched the original Star Trek, it’s easier for a civilised person to pretend to be a barbarian than it is for a private in the blubber army to pretend (s)he’s left wing.

            • Lanthanide

              Because if Cunliffe had said it was the fault of the media (which you know to be true), the media would have simply attacked him again for that as well. Twice shy.

              • i blame the moa..

                ..(it has crosby-textor written all over it..)

                • could crosby textor have put a chip in ‘ducky’s’ head..?

                  ..so they can program him @ will..?

                  ..and do they order him to shock/horrify the locals/bye-standers..?

                  ..by walking around clad in lycra..?

                  ..or is that his own attention-seeking idea..?

            • framu

              “Now admittedly he did state they were taken out of context ”

              you did say this didnt you?

              “Do you think his comments were off topic like Cunliffe obviously does?”

              no – i think your full of shit on purpose

              • Gosman

                Why did Cunliffe bring up the comments then especially in response to a question about examples of Labour straying off topic?

                • framu

                  now your just trying to go in circles – your not very subtle are you

                  why are you such a bore?

                  why do you always avoid and evade questions put to you?

                  why are you such a bad faith commentor?

                  • Gosman

                    Why can’t you answer a simple question over why you think Cunliffe brought up the apology for being a man comments in the context of a question over Labour trying to keep focused?

                    • framu

                      “Now admittedly he did state they were taken out of context ”

                      you did say this didnt you?

                      Perhaps you put a stop to your circular logic and behave with some honesty first?

                    • Gosman

                      Why did he bring it up in response to the question he was asked?

                    • framu

                      why on earth are you asking me what is going on inside anyone else head?

                • Te Reo Putake

                  “Why did Cunliffe bring up the comments then especially in response to a question about examples of Labour straying off topic?”

                  He didn’t. And that was not a question asked in the interview. Your memory is faulty.

                  • Gosman

                    Here is the interview


                    Please explain why he is discussing his apology for being a man comments. I don’t hear a question directly asking about it prior to him bringing it up.

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      How dense are you, Gossie? You can answer your own question by listening to the link you so helpfully provided. I guess you’re not keen to, because it makes everything you said this morning look like shite.

                    • freedom

                      The portion of the interview where the ‘apology’ is introduced Gosman is very clear. A few comments above you wrote “When asked about an example of Labour going off message he volunteered his apology for being a man remarks”

                      You are wrong! Although the wider interview topic was touching on some Labour members’ off-message incidents, the ‘apology’ remarks were to a far more specific topic.

                      Susie brought up the drop in male support in the polls, Cunliffe says there are factors to that drop which he himself had contributed to, Susie says “Like what?”

                      “Like what?” is a question.

                      Cunliffe then talks about his comments on the very serious issue of sexual violence in New Zealand, including the ‘apology’. He discusses how people have read into it in a way he did not intend and that the discussions the ‘apology’ generated and the lack of true context these discussions were placed within have been damaging in the polls.

                    • Gosman

                      I have and I can’t see anywhere in there that Cunliffe wasn’t using his comments as an example of him not staying on message. He acknowledged his stuff up for goodness sake. I ask you once again why did he feel the need to use his comments as an example of Labour not staying on message AND accept some responsibility for the negative response to his comments?

                    • freedom

                      now you are just being an obstinate [insert epithet] for the sake of it.

                      Susie brought up the drop in male support in the polls, Cunliffe says there are factors to that drop which he himself had contributed to, Susie says “Like what?”

                      “Like what?” is a question.

                      Cunliffe then talks about his comments on the very serious issue of sexual violence in New Zealand, including the ‘apology’.

                    • Gosman

                      No. Cunliffe brought up Labour not focusing on a set of key areas. Suzie asked him for an example of this and he volunteered his comments which was interpreted as apologising for being a man. He even stated he was going to take partial responsibility for the reaction to his comments. If he didn’t think the comments were unhelpful why did he volunteer them when asked for an example of straying off topic by Labour people?

                    • freedom

                      I could repost what I have already reposted and pad it out with the examples others presented that show how you are being highly generalist in your interpretation but carousels get tedious, so

                      It was this version or Sting’s
                      you may be an aggravating s.o.b with bizarre reasoning ‘skills’
                      but I’m just not cruel enough to inflict Sting on any one.

                      Have a lovely day Gosman.

      • greywarbler 3.1.3

        I put forward that criticisms of David Cunliffe from any source here should be limited to one comment. And then denial of access or the next comments be wiped or banned. This to apply right to the end of the election. I would like The Standard to consider this seriously. It is indeed a serious matter at this time of approaching an election of vital importance to us all.

        I do not see that it is helpful to the Left to allow mendacious shallow people to mock the Labour leader in a desire to destroy his standing and undermine the Labour electoral team and plan.

        It is a mistaken idea of the purpose of free speech to give these people more than the shortest opportunity to express their poisonous points.

        Nobody likes leaking of negative comments about David Cunliffe by a supposed Labour MP to the media.

        Why then would TS allow this indulgence to these destructive democratic vandals?

        • ianmac

          Agreed greywarbler. Gosman must be high fiving all round his lair everytime one of us tries to justify/explain the misrepresentation of David. It allows constant repeats of the twists of facts until even Labour supporters doubt their party. Gosman should get just one comment then blat!

          • Bearded Git

            agreed grey/ian.

            Gosman is being allowed to cast too many negatives and soak up too much of The Standard where we should be talking policies and strategy.

            • greywarbler

              What got my wick was reading Disraeli Gladstone yesterday probably in Open Mike. Not only sly comments of pretend concern, a waste of time, and insulting all the thinkers and workers here for democracy and a well-run country for all. Time to put the bouncers onto them.

          • Kiwiri

            Gosman’s time- and space-wasting reminds me of someone who is no longer here to waste people’s time, electricity and broadband quota.

        • Gosman

          I quite enjoyed the leaking of the comments about Cunliffe. I am sure there are others out there that also found them most entertaining.

          • deep throat

            that was no leak but a downright lie peddled to the media by hootonboagey.
            they have free access to the media to lie and cheat and give the fleas something to chatter about.
            new zealand is turning into a place where nobody tells the truth anymore.

        • alex

          If only he was a good leader they would have less to use against him, in the mean time he invites this type of comment. I guess if we don’t like the truth we can censor this blog and put our blinkers on.

          • greywarbler

            On what basis is DC not a good leader? On what basis do you make such definitive remarks? Who are you, and what experience have you had at leading or running anything like a nationwide election campaign. Also having the difficult task while following a reasoned line in a disciplined manner and at the same time coping with a know-all who will sneak off and put a cog in the wheel.

            DC is doing well but, amongst a bunch of lefties there will always be someone harder to pen than a wild sheep?

            You have taken the name of my favourite business cartoon character, and he is both funny, cunning and a lateral thinker. I don’t feel that you match up to him.

    • karol 3.2

      No comment about Key not taking the alleged attempted rape of Tania Billingsley seriously?

      Your priorities are showing?

      • Rosie 3.2.1

        Key is unbelievable.

        Key said: “I don’t make apologies unless there’s a serious reason for me to do that. As I said at the time I relied on the advice that was given to me by MFAT.” ”


        Clearly attempted rape isn’t a serious issue.


        • alex

          Clark would have done the same thing, A PM can’t be seen to go round saying “sorry” before a situation has been tried before the courts. Remember this Malaysian guy is innocence until he has had his day in court. I am not defending him, but I do understand how the legal system works and how Key could derail this process by commenting before an investigation has taken place. Who knows if this case will end with a conviction, in which case this girl would not be due a apology.

          • Te Reo Putake

            So why did Key promise her one three weeks ago?

          • Murray Olsen

            You have real comprehension problems, don’t you? Key apologising for not treating the problem seriously could not have had any impact on legal proceedings. Why don’t you say what you really think about this “girl”. I’m sure you’ve read it in Blubber Boy’s hate blog.

      • fender 3.2.2


        Only serious circumstances require an apology Key reckons, this must mean sexual assault and departmental inaction and/or incompetence in this regard are not considered serious.

        How people can stomach this dullard is a mystery to me, it’s a poor reflection on what was once a progressive compassionate nation.

      • William 3.2.3

        Radio NZ midday news had audio showing Key earlier stated he would apologise if he knew her name.


        Now that Tania Billingsley has bravely identified herself Key is a coward and runs for cover!

  4. Adrian 4

    Yes there is a campaign to undermine and destabilise the left and Labour in particular, and if you want to know where a huge amount of it is coming from and how it will not change, look up one name, Gina Rhienhart, probably one of the nastier pieces of work on the planet, the Bitch of Bitches. She has more influence than one could ever imagine.

    • greywarbler 4.1

      Rhinoheart is thinking of splitting Fairfax nz off apparently. Watch this space.

    • Kiwiri 4.2

      Gillard got taken down big time by the media there so that a monkey could be put in and see what the nonsense and damage that is causing.

      Gillard had all the necessary excellent qualities of being a superb Prime Minister.

  5. The Lone Haranguer 5

    Pinched this from the editorial in todays Press. See not all the MSM is against him.

    Of all the things Labour leader David Cunliffe might be criticised for, his decision to take a few days off to spend time with his children before the election campaign begins in earnest is emphatically not one of them. There is no reason to doubt his statement that he has been working extremely hard over the last few months. Just about all politicians have been.

    The three days he took last week to go on a skiing holiday in Queenstown with his children was his last opportunity to spend some uninterrupted time with them for the next nine weeks. The fact that he has been criticised for it shows there is still not enough understanding of the needs of working parents. Rather than being attacked, Cunliffe should have been applauded for setting an example by trying to achieve an appropriate work-life balance in a high-level career in which the work demands are relentless and intense.

    Worse than that, however, the attack on Cunliffe was yet another illustration of the continual indiscipline afflicting the Labour Party at present. It also demonstrates Cunliffe’s inability to get his party inside the House and outside focused on what they must do if they are to have any chance at all in the general election.

    The attack, which first appeared in the Sunday-Star Times at the weekend, was done behind a veil of anonymity. The source was described as a senior Labour figure, but it could not be discerned from the story whether it was a person in the caucus, two-thirds of which is said to support someone other than Cunliffe, or someone in the wider party. Either way, it seemed calculated to do the maximum harm.

    • Anne 5.1

      Either way, it seemed calculated to do the maximum harm.

      David Cunliffe said yesterday he believes he knows who the “anonymous source” is and the person is not a parliamentarian. He went on to say that he was not going to conduct a witch-hunt…

      I disagree with David. From my own experience, I can say the more such individuals are allowed to get away with this kind of despicable behaviour, then the more they will do it. Naming and shaming them is the only way to stop them.

      • greywarbler 5.1.1

        I think your experience is showing. Maybe someone is reading/listening and will usefully use the good advice!!

        @Ianmac – well said.

        My Compliments to The Press. It makes an attempt to sum up the present situation correctly and nearly succeeds, try again and I might be able to add, fairly. @!@!@!@!@!#!#!#! (Fireworks in anticipatory celebration)

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.2


        DC needs to find out who it was and have a very serious discussion with them. One ending with the culprit being turfed out of Labour.

    • ianmac 5.2

      The trouble with that Editorial TLH is that the writer still managed to malign the Labour Party.
      “…whether it was a person in the caucus, two-thirds of which is said to support someone other than Cunliffe,…”
      and “Worse than that, however, the attack on Cunliffe was yet another illustration of the continual indiscipline afflicting the Labour Party at present. It also demonstrates Cunliffe’s inability to get his party inside the House and outside focused on what they must do if they are to have any chance at all in the general election.”
      Do two thirds not want him? Name them.
      Ill discipline? Cameron Slater has done a great evil job of promoting that.

      • The Lone Haranguer 5.2.1

        But its not having a go at Cunliffe or misrepresenting what hes saying. And thats been complaint around here.

        Sure its having a go at those disloyal to their leader, but those comments are no different to what I read here……

        I suspect that the Labour MPs unhappiness (presuming it actually exists) is more closely aligned to the reported 25% support levels and their personal job prospects.

        It seems to me (an outsider but somebody warming to Labour due to their policies) a “combined left” with Winston getting them over the line, matters less to the MPs than their own position as an MP. If it were not so, Im sure there would be complimentary campaigning between the parties of the left.

  6. vto 6

    So John Key says, of the Green’s child policy announced yesterday “the question is actually where does the money come from, not whether it is a good idea”

    What an arsehole – where does the money come from for the dairy farmers irrigation schemes? where does the money come from for the increases in funding to private schools? where does the money come from for Rio Tinto?

    Show me the money john key, show me the money.

    • marsman 6.1

      The question that needs to be asked of John Key is:-

      The seventy billion dollar govt Debt, what was that spent on?

      • Gosman 6.1.1

        The decade of deficits that the last Labour led government left the incoming National led one in 2008. Read the 2008 Prefu.

        • framu

          so your saying the $$ was spent on a prediciton?

          • Gosman

            No the money was spent on the spending regime that Labour put in place and that was largely left intact by National. Remember when National attempted some minor reduction in spending by cutting back funding for continuing education classes and the like and how upset some lefties got at that? Well they were doing that because they didn’t want to have to cut spending on WFF and other Labour inspired middle class welfare.

            • vto

              if the current wealth distribution regime which applies in this country was right then none of that palava would be needed.

              the existing wealth distribution rules need changing don’t they gosman, as you have just highlighted

            • McFlock

              Well they were doing that because they didn’t want to have to cut spending on WFF and other Labour inspired middle class welfare.

              Well, they should have just reversed the Cullen tax cuts, rather than cutting taxes further. You forgot about that little part of the “balanced budget” equation.

              Fucksake, it’s like you’re complaining that you’re broke because of the mortgage on your house rather than the fact that you quit your job five years ago to follow your dream of all-day masturbation while rolling in caviar.

              • framu

                ” it’s like you’re complaining that you’re broke because of the mortgage on your house rather than the fact that you quit your job five years ago to follow your dream of all-day masturbation while rolling in caviar.”

                i just laughed hot chips out my nose

        • millsy

          The question that needs to be asked, is that would you choose between deficits, or US style health care.

          • vto


            NZ is more than wealthy enough to attend to such matters. The problem is the current wealth distribution rules and regime which applies in this country, which your comment ironically highlights. Egg.

        • mickysavage

          What if any role did the Global Financial Crisis play in the Prefu’s prediction of a decade of deficits?

          • Gosman

            I presume not a major part because it is difficult to base medium to long term predictions on cyclical factors in the economy. Treasury wouldn’t have known the extent or longevity of the GFC at the time it made the prediction.

            • KJT

              Don’t you mean that, Treasury couldn’t find their own arse, with a map!

              • Gosman

                Is the left going to undertake a serious reform of Treasury if they get in to power then given this lack of ability by the department?

                • felix

                  Treasury should be privatised and compete in the market to sell its services.

                  If no-one is willing to buy treasury, it should be disbanded immediately as it clearly has no value.

                  • Gosman

                    Good stuff. Now which political party is going to advocate for that?

                    • vto

                      Your type of party fool.

                      And while you’re at it you could get that rather substantial National Party rural support base, the farmers and the shoddy SCF investors, to abide by their principles instead of crying for subsidies and payouts from elderly ratepayers and taxpayers all the time. They could try standing on their own two feet for a change and operate in the open free market …. your type have no credibility

        • Bearded Git

          Wrong gosman. You assume that Labour would not have put in place policies that limited the growth in public debt, which of course they (unlike National-public debt up $50 billion) would have done.

          Lies like this should have you banned from The Standard.

          • Gosman

            Most of the policies promoted by Labour during this period seemed to consist of not making any cuts at all and trying to spend our way back to economic growth. That may have worked at some stage but would have made the deficit larger and therefore the associated debt would have been greater not less.

            • vto

              the brainless blind dogmatic ideology that says there must be economic growth is the problem.

              why is economic growth needed gosman, do tell …..

              • Gosman

                Ummmm… to provide an economic surplus that can be spent on improving individual’s and wider society’s lot in life.

            • framu

              ” seemed to consist of not making any cuts at all and trying to spend our way back to economic growth.”

              so your basing this on 1) your opinion of a policy platform 2) that doesnt take into account what might had been done differently if labour had gotten into govt

              what a cretin

              this is the exact same logic fail that resides in trying to compare nationals actions post gfc with predictions of what labour were going to do pre gfc

              as usual – deliberate or stupid

            • Murray Olsen

              Labor in Australia stimulated the economy and kept it reasonably healthy. Of course this didn’t suit people like Gooseman because if they see beggars on the street and people living under bridges, they can spend less on Viagra.

              Abbott’s moronic government are now doing what they can to drag all the wealth to the top, on instructions from Gina Stoneheart and Rupert Murdoch. Gooseman should move over here. He could get a job as a highly paid consultant to help Bjelke-Newman with asset sales.

        • Draco T Bastard

          There was no such thing. All that existed were a few projections by Treasury who have an irritating habit of under-estimating how well the economy does under left governments and over-estimating under National governments. On top of that BS Labour were reacting to the GFC once it became obvious that it was occurring (and the idiots in Treasury didn’t say that the GFC was going to occur which should tell you just how accurate their projections are) which means to say that there wouldn’t have been any deficits. Unlike under the present government which has put us under six years of deficits so far, no indication that they’re going to end soon and the highest ever level of government debt.

      • greywarbler 6.1.2

        Liza and Joel Money vid again.

    • infused 6.2

      It’s a valid question.

      It may be a good idea. But show how you are going to pay for it.

  7. vto 7

    Chris Trotter points out the obvious in the MH17 downing in his article in the paper this cold morning.

    Namely, that the US instigated the troubles in the region by aiding the throwing out of the democratically elected government of Ukraine earlier this year.

    The dribble being spouted by John Kerry, US foreign ministerthing, (he almost physically trips over on his faux outrage) is in fact very amusing. The people of the west by way of the journalists on the ground similarly getting all het up and on their high horses is also amusing. Where was John Kerry, and where were the journalists, together with their sputtering shit, when the US shot down the passenger airline from Iran in 1988 killing 290 civilians? Where were they when the hundreds of innocent civilians were getting butchered by the Ukranian government (which the US helped install earlier this year) over the last two months? The outrage being expressed over this is out of order.

    Hypocrisy by the west and in particular the US is typically amusing but in this instance it really is roll on the floor laughing time. What a frikkin’ joke.

    • while i have no brief for putin..

      ..the facts of the matter are that america toppled a democratically-elected govt on russias’s border..

      ..(think of russia toppling the canadian..or mexican govts..and installing a puppet-regime..)

      ..(and ukraine is a country that has been on americas’ regime-change shortlist..for awhile..and here we are..)

      ..so putin now has america/nato sitting on his doorstep..(think russion troops massed on canadian/mexican-borders..)

      ..and waving its’ dick at him in a threatening manner…

      ..now..given russian history..of troops massed on their borders/invasions..

      ..putins’ perspective comes clearer into focus..

      • vto 7.1.1


        The Russians interfering with the Mexican government anyone? Helping to topple it anyone? Russian troops in Central America anyone? Cuba anyone?

        • Gosman

          Russian/Soviet advisors have been in numerous areas of civil conflict of the decades.

          • vto

            avoiding the point as always

          • Draco T Bastard

            So have the US advisors but, more importantly, the US has used violence several times to change a government it didn’t like. Russia hasn’t.

            • KJT

              Hungary. Poland. Czechoslovakia?
              Chechnia. Afghanistan.

              Have to admit they are not as accomplished at the process as the USA, however.

            • Te Reo Putake

              Um, Crimea? Like only a couple of months ago?

              • Draco T Bastard

                Crimea seceded. And it could be said that they just went back to the country that they were all along.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Um, no, they didn’t secede. The province was occupied by Russian troops, a one sided referendum was held and anyone not liking the result was forced out at gunpoint. It was in the news quite a bit at the time. Strange that you missed it.

                  • McFlock

                    I just thought it’s demographic turned out to include an extra 16,000 males of military age who liked to wear green and speak Russian? Because an occupation would have been an invasion, also known as an act of war.

                    A bit like the difference between a “blockade” and a “quarantine zone”.

            • wtl

              WTF is with this USA is bad Russia isn’t anyway? All major powers are as bad as each other simply because these is too much power in the hands of too few people.

    • Gosman 7.2

      Excellent to see Chris Trotter blaming the US for somehow getting the revels to deliberately identify, target and launch the missile that hit the plane. Perhaps he believes the Russian position on this which seems to be that the Ukrainian military shot down the plane from another aircraft.

      • vto 7.2.1

        Chris Trotter did not blame the US for that. Spinner.

        And perhaps you just always believe everything the far right of the west spouts. Certainly that is what your history of commentary indicates. Not an ounce of independent critical thinking.

        • Gosman

          I don’t believe everything the official mouthpieces of the West put out. I just don’t buy in to the anti US conspiracy nonsense that many on the left lap up.

          • vto

            There is nothing conspiracy about the west’s involvement in Ukraine.

            • Gosman

              There is a huge amount of conspiracy theory over the Ukraine such as the US is supporting the neo Nazis to gain power. That is frankly ridiculous but if you want to believe such nonsense is the truth then so be it.

              • vto

                There is nothing conspiracy about the west’s involvement in Ukraine.

              • freedom

                a compilation video discussing recent and potential events in the Ukraine also outlining activity currently under way across the globe in relation to US and NATO plans. Or is RT and Press TV and other included sources forging US government policy and misrepresenting the public statements made by NATO?

                Partners Across the Globe, a real thing and involves NZ
                United States’ Prompt Global Strike, another real thing
                United States Africa Command, also a real thing

      • Puddleglum 7.2.2

        getting the revels to deliberately identify, target and launch the missile that hit the plane.

        Even according to the transcripts of supposed tapes released by Kiev, it is abundantly clear that if pro-Russian rebels downed the plane it was a mistake and they were quite confused as to why they had hit a commercial airliner:

        During the call, the militant appears to be confused why the plane bears the markings of a commercial flight.

        “It has a Malaysia Airlines logo on it, they say,” said the unidentified militant. “What was it doing in Ukraine’s territory?”

        ‘A mistake’.

        Interestingly, that was exactly the same reason the U.S. gave for downing the Iranian plane some years ago. The only difference is that, clearly, the pro-Russian rebels had far less reason to deliberately shoot down a Malaysian airliner today than did the U.S. to shoot down an Iranian airliner then.

        What did the world say then? Something like ‘Oh, what a tragic mistake.’

        Presumably, then, it will be the same response now?

        In a sane world at least.

    • bad12 7.3

      Cant quite see the joke myself, looks to me like there is a deliberate and ongoing attempt to start yet another European conflagration…

      • deep throat 7.3.1

        yeah right.
        nato and the us are planning a conflagratioon right now just for the hell of it.
        oh and to make all the nutbar predictions come true.
        just check the odds on hootons lie site to find out the troof.

        • Draco T Bastard

          nato and the us are planning a conflagratioon right now just for the hell of it.

          Oh, it’s not for the hell of it – it’s to return profits to the banks and weapons manufacturers.

        • freedom

          yeah man
          crazy nut-bars and their conspiracies
          bunch of idiots !

          like in October ’62
          when all those nukes were hot and folk had itchy trigger fingers
          getting pumped up on the threat of Mother Russia
          when all it needed was a bonehead move
          and war was guaranteed

          as if the US
          would create some pretext
          have some plan sitting there
          to start a war that could lead to the use of nuclear weapons!
          – and risk killing a bunch of innocent civilians
          just to make it happen ?

          no way man, never gonna happen

          • vto

            Holy shit – is that link true and real? Comes from George Washington University so I guess it is.

            Probably shouldn’t be surprised at all, but sheesh that is really out there ……. and puts paid to pretty much every ounce of credibility the US had, especially when it comes to foreign policy.

            Note in particular the one about the US shooting down a passenger plane and blaming it on Cuba – to justify attacking Cuba.

            it should be compulsory reading.
            for everyone.

            • freedom

              got it’s own wikipage and everything,
              but seriously, yes,
              and that was fifty years ago

              they gots lots new tricks since then

    • Olwyn 7.4

      Which paper? I would like to read Trotter’s piece on the Ukraine.

    • Rodel 7.5

      Interesting interview on the Ukrainian situation.with Stephen Cohen, emeritus professor of Russian Studies and Politics at New York and Princeton Universities By Amy Goodman and co. of ‘Democracy Now’.
      As an older experienced commentator he cuts through the bullsh*t from both sides.


  8. RTM 8

    He admires neo-fascist Geert Wilders, calls Tariana Turia a tyrant and Colin Craig a commie, regards the Catholic church as an ‘evil’ organisation striving to deprive NZers of heir freedom – and he’s number 6 on Act’s party list:

    • Gosman 8.1

      What is wrong with being anti-Islam? As far as I know Islam is merely a set of beliefs. People are entitled to dislike and campaign against a set of beliefs as much as they like. Goodness knows many here decry right wing economics and equate it with Nazism all the time without too much opposition to that.

      • fender 8.1.1

        People should have respect for the religious beliefs of others.

        Respect for the fantasy and lies surrounding far-right economic propaganda is not required.

        Hopefully the difference can trickle down into your skull soon…

        • Gosman

          Why should I have respect for others religious beliefs? Do you respect a religious belief that thinks Homosexuality is a sin that should be made illegal and punishable by death?

          • fender

            Most religions have their extreme factions and if this manifests into human rights violations then respect will be absent obviously.

            Debunked economic theory invented to make the rich richer would fall into the extremist area and equally deserves scorn.

            • Gosman

              The point is it is easy to make the case that Islam’s extreme faction as you put it is actually the point of the religion. Sure there maybe lots of people who are well meaning just as there were lots of well meaning Germans during WWII. That does not excuse the rotten belief system they buy in to though. I had an interesting chat with a Nestorian Christian the other day. He is not a big fan of Islam either mainly because he had to live with it being all pervassive for much of his life.

              • McFlock

                The point is it is easy to make the case that Islam’s extreme faction as you put it is actually the point of the religion

                No, it’s not. Otherwise you wouldn’t have had to pull the ‘and someone I met was also a bigot’ line.

                The fact is that you’re defending someone who wants to ban books and legalise methamphetamine. I’m not sure you’re on to a winner there.

                • Gosman

                  I’m not defending anyone. I asked the question why being anti Islam is a problem.

                  • McFlock

                    Why is taking the fringe misinterpretation of a major belief system and applying that to all adherents of that belief system in order to justify banning that belief system a problem?

                    Yeah, asking a question that stupid is actually a defence of your fellow bigot.

              • emergency mike

                “The point is it is easy to make the case that Islam’s extreme faction as you put it is actually the point of the religion.”

                Bullshit. That’s your Fox news Western bias talking. A tiny fraction of Muslims are ‘extremists’, do you think you understand the ‘point’ of Islam better that the vast majority of the world’s Muslims?

                I’ve read the Koran and have devout Muslim friends. Their point is that God is great, that there is more than this material realm, and that a spiritual and righteous life is the way to live. This is what they choose to believe. They explained to me that there are no ‘Islamic’ states, there are only Middle Eastern regimes who use religion to maintain their political power.

                As with the Bible there are a few vague lines in the Koran that have been interpreted by extremists to mean what they want it to mean. That doesn’t make Islam a ‘rotten belief system’ like Nazism. You really are an idiot.

              • KJT

                Actually Gosman, the moral codes of most of the worlds religions are very similar. And the people who ‘really’ adhere to them are nice to have around.

                Both Christianity and Islam, teach, for example, tolerance for others.

                It was Islam that continued with science, while the Christian countries were mired in the dark ages.

      • Daveosaurus 8.1.2

        What is wrong with being anti-Islam?

        The same thing that is wrong with being homophobic, anti-Semitic, and any other number of petty bigotries: it is irrational. It’s on the same spectrum of irrationality as murdering four little kids playing soccer on a beach because they’re of the wrong religion.

    • vto 8.2

      Ha ha betcha Stephen Berry is an ex-criminal or will commit some crime shortly. That is the Act way after all. They are funny

  9. Chooky 9

    ‘Internet MANA Auckland road show at Kelston – what the media are missing’

    By Martyn Bradbury / July 21, 2014 /

    The Town Hall in Kelston yesterday was packed well before the start time of 2pm. What many welded to Wellington in the Press Gallery don’t understand about Internet MANA is that its energy and flaxroot mobilisation is far larger than their view from Parliament can see….

    • bad12 9.1

      i had a look at the Wellington venue for the InternetMana roadshow yesterday, i should imagine Hone/Lailla and Kim DotCom will easily pack that one as well,

      The venue, Mac’s Function Center, right down the bottom of Taranaki Street for those who have, like me until yesterday never heard of the place,

      By right down the bottom of Taranaki Street i mean right down the bottom right on the waterfront,

      A note to InternetMana if anyone’s reading this morning, for the last week of the actual campaign i would suggest a repeat of ‘the roadshow’ in Waiariki, in Auckland,(maybe 2, South and Central), and last but not least a grand finale up in Te Tai Tokerau…

      • Rosie 9.1.1

        I thought the Mac’s bar/function centre was a curious choice of venue. The function centre part which I’ve never been to is probably quite suitable for their requirements, I should imagine, and that’s why they picked it.

        The bar downstairs which I’ve had the misfortune of going to twice (once not by choice, but because the staff do was held there) is a cavernous booze barn filled with try hards, rugby heads and sleezy middle aged blokes preying on young women. The formulaic theme of the bar is straight out an accountants handbook of winning formula’s for NZ pubs. The music is dire beyond belief.

        It’s the kind of place that drains all hope and creativity out of anyone who walks in there.

        Hopefully the Internet Mana roadshow above the bar will sprinkle some of it’s magic down through the floorboards and settle in the hearts of the patrons and staff.

        • bad12

          Lolz Rosie, sounds like a definition of Capitalism, ”removes all the coin from everyone’s pockets leaving them with a massive headache in the morning”…

          • Colonial Viper

            Party party venue 10 Bar in Dunedin packs out with maybe 250 people. Hope its big enough.

    • (this is from a comment on that piece..)

      “..…to stem the tide of political/financial treason that has beset this country for more than 30 years now…”

      ..hard to argue against that..

      ..and reason number 53 why labour are still not liked/trusted by so many…

      ..we’ve heard all of that ‘a better nz for all nz’ers’-bullshit before..

      ..and we remember how it all turned to ashes in the mouth..

      ..how it was the first promise broken..

      • Bearded Git 9.2.1

        Phil-so you would prefer to have Key back rather than Lab/Green/IMP?

        If you want the Left to win stop criticising and talk positively about strategy and policies.

        • phillip ure

          yeah..that’s right..like i’m the only one..

          ..and i have been clear about what i want..

          ..i want the labour vote to collapse out to the greens/internet/mana…

          ..(which appears to be happening already..and i expect that to accelerate..)

          ..ending up with a left-bloc that will actually get some stuff done..

          ..not just a growth/arbeit macht frei! national-lite…

          ..and i am offering ‘positive-policies/strategies’ for labour to adopt..

          ..but they seem determined in their veer back to the centre..(read:..right..)

          ..perhaps you need to talk to them..?

          ..and have you found out yet what has happened to my ‘hate-campaigns’-chq..?..from the rightwing..?

          ..nary a sign of it..so far..

          • Bearded Git

            ha ha phil. Very good.

            I must admit to fantasising what the world’s press would say with a result Green 23% Labour 21% IMP 6% and the announcement of joint PM’s Russell and Metiria’s cabinet.

            It is actually not so far from fantasy.

  10. Ant 10

    So it looks like Labour are following the don’t show the leader method that worked so well.

    Seen Shearer and Ardern’s mugs plastered over billboards and a generic family, no DC.

    • Bearded Git 10.1

      Are you making this up Ant? My understanding is that Cunliffe’s picture, you know the smart one with the good policies that will win the tv debates, will be on the billboards.

    • Te Reo Putake 10.2

      From what I’ve seen (and put up) there are local candidate photos and a variety of policy/Vote positive etc ones with DC’s photo on them. They’ve been going up from the weekend and if my local electorate is anything to go by, the supporters will have them all done in the next two weeks. But it is voluntary work and has to be fitted in around people’s real lives.

      Ant, if you are worried about what you’ve seen, the answer is obvious; volunteer to put up hoardings.

  11. bad12 11

    Its an interesting read here this morning in today’s ‘Open Mike’, pretty much a trail of defeatism being exhibited with the ‘media’ and the ‘Labour Caucus’ being apportioned the ‘blame’ for an expected?? low turnout for the Labour vote in September???,

    Sure the ‘media’ are biased, you only had to be listening to Linda Clark on Mora’s moronics, weekday afternoons at RadioNZ National, yesterday, to understand the deep seated ‘attitude’ that has developed within the Parliamentary press gallery to understand that,

    What of the Policy arena tho, Labour’s that is, i can off the top of my head think of a number of Labour’s key Policies that as an ex-Labour voter give me every reason NOT to vote for the Party,

    No i wont spray the list of policies that i find leads me to not be able to vote for the Party that has had my votes since the age of 18 when i cast the first one for Norm Kirk’s election all those years ago while ‘ a guest’ in Invercargill Borstal,

    Sure stupidity dribbling out of the Caucus will be part of the reason if Labour dont do well in September,

    Sure the outright bias of the mass media will also have played a part,

    Cunliffe himself tho, and those surrounding Him must also carry the can if Labour cannot lift itself in September,

    The ‘policy platform’, it would seem that those ‘inside’ Labour agree with it, or, have simply left it to the Caucus must also shoulder the burden if at the actual poll the support for Labour turns out to be that which the published media polls are indicating,

    Simply going Wah Wah Wah, the biased media are wrecking Labour’s electoral chances OR worse, resurrecting the ABC’s as a scapegoat is to simply deny the fact that Labour must have a coherent set of policies that address the People that the Party wishes to vote for it,

    IF, the published media polls are anywhere near accurate then the number indicates at least in a big part, how many of the voters out there are attracted by the so far announced policy platform,

    That number, obviously, appears to be not growing, in fact that number appears to be doing the opposite…

    • Bearded Git 11.1

      Just more defeatism there bad.

      Click on my post below and then get out there and do something about it.

      • bad12 11.1.1

        Bearded git, get out there and do something about ‘it’ yourself, and, to put forward a point of ‘just more defeatism’ would require some small modicum of intelligence directed at what in my particular comment you consider to be defeatism,

        You will be excused here of course if the suspicion that you have none, a modicum of intelligence that is, prohibits you from putting forward any idea which points intelligently to the source of the supposed defeatism in my comment…

      • deep throat 11.1.2

        waste of time asking abd to do anything.
        he only comes here because there is nowhere else for him.

        • bad12

          Aaah shallow throat, hows the get pissed on a Saturday night and beat your spouse ‘jokes’ going you little sicko…

          • deep throat

            much better when I know that you are having a fit.

            • bad12

              Like your misspelling of my user-name you are in error with the last word as well, i am having a spit, at you…

              • deep throat

                do what you like.
                do a timothy mcveegh and blow yourself up.
                I reccommend Ajax or Atlas or Hercules.
                Thats what we used down the pit.
                You know. when we were working for a living instead of fulminating about the world as if it was possible to right every wrong by getting indignant in a chat room.

                • bad12

                  🙄 the imperative word in this little exchange deep throat,(gods sake change the handle, no-one in their right mind would name themselves after the act of oral sex), is the final one of comment,

                  A hint is that it begins with an S and concludes with an O, your violence fantasy is rather worrying, 🙄 , you should seek help…

                  • deep throat

                    what does all that mean?

                    • bad12

                      Oh all that deep throat, its code for there’s a Simpson’s episode on the TV…

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    “no-one in their right mind would name themselves after the act of oral sex”

                    Hard to know what’s funnier, the porn addict’s limited definition of oral sex or the ignorance of political history. Quite made my night, Bad, well done!

                    • deep throat

                      oh gosh.
                      thats rilly rilly funnneee.
                      I cant stop larfing and larfing.

                    • bad12

                      I echo ‘oral sexes’ comment above TRP, by the way while you are present i just thought, ha ha ha, i would prove the extent of my un-homophobic nature,

                      Hell i am so deeply un-homophobic that i find it cute that you can trot of down the local rugby club on a Saturday night for a few beers and take yourself home a 120 kilo prop for the night,

                      The very thought of you traipsing, tippy toey through the tulips with said prop fills my heart with gladness,

                      my only question tho, do you still fancy Him when you sober up in the morning…

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      I think that one may have sailed over your head, DT! Perhaps I should have used an irony tag? I was laughing at bad’s ignorance about the political origin of your handle. And also what the homophobe thinks oral sex is. He’s one sad wee fucker. In so many ways, apparently.

                    • deep throat

                      Dont tell everything you know TRP.
                      Just keep poking him till he swells up and pops.
                      its not all that bright and gets confused easily by any proposition that requires logical rational thought.
                      so popping it is the only option.

                      [lprent: too many accusations about trolls for no apparent reason. Looks like a attempt to start flame wars. Banned until after september 20th. ]

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Ha! Really, I’d rather he just toned down the abuse and debated facts and philosophies. But it takes all sorts and some people don’t have those kind of skills. I’ve met plenty of angry ranters in my life, and done a fair bit of it myself, so fair dos.

                      The only downside is that the Standard now actually does have more pointless abuse than Whaleoil these days, especially now that Cam has someone running the comments for him. They even have a perfectly sensible moderation policy:


                      Pisses me off they’re doing it better than we are.

                    • bad12

                      Lolz, the ‘brainstrust’ is formed, 🙄 damn hilarious, and of course the ‘political deepthroat’ imparted Nixon’s secrets to Woodward and Bernstein of the Washington Post,

                      So far TRP, you managed to score only own goals, might be a bit of a stretch to ask the local try hard to try harder, but, to bother me in the slightest you will have to,

                      You didnt tho answer the question, do you still luuu-uuurve those 120 kilo props in the morning,(snigger)…

                    • bad12

                      That says it all TRP, a comment from you positively oozing with adoration for ‘Cam’ and whale-spit,

                      You are one sick little puppy, but, it figures, i have always seen you to be little different than any of the nutjobs that infest ‘Cams’ pond of scum,

                      That little difference being your faux claim to support of the left…

                      [lprent: Getting tired of your recent comments. Been a while since you managed to contribute in any meaningful way to the discussion. All I have seen you do recently is to attack others. I’d suggest that you learn to find some other technique quite soon. Otherwise I will start demonstrating how much of amateur you are at the skill of personal attacks. ]

                    • Te Reo Putake

                      Great that you’ve got the hang of google, bad. It only took you ten minutes to find the deep throat reference. That’s a major improvement on the hours it took you to find the Pike River transcripts after you made up that quote! You must have finally learned how to keep your knuckles from dragging across the keyboard and ruining the results 🙂

                      ps, noting that WO moderates more efficiently than TS does not mean I approve of the actual content. Hard to get your head around, I know, but think of it like hating, say, the Crusaders or Man U as a team, but admiring their style of play.

                      Faux lefty, I ain’t. I’ve got a life history that says just the opposite, as many regulars here know.

                    • bad12

                      My opinion, you could say Blubber boi’s wail-oil is being run more E-fascistly than the Standard,

                      But then you have shown by your display tonight that what you claim is utter bullshit, you neither indulge in debating the facts and are as free as i am with the abusive jibes,

                      Your ‘facts’ as you showed with these words, ”not a diesel smell” are in fact utter lies made up by you in what is best described as a scummy attempt at point scoring, not debate, a simple act of dick waving using a lie you made up for that purpose,

                      Your ilk rather sicken me,and, everything i see wrong in the Labour Party is in fact embodied in you….

    • The Lone Haranguer 11.2

      Well I reckon the Labour regional development policy is a good start, and pretty smart.

      Now I have never voted Labour before, but Im being tempted to this time. I may even join the party given that the more lefty ones indicate that they have decamped to either the Greens or the IMP.

      Im a bit unsure tho, which Labour policies are out there at the moment in “kite flying mode” that can get traded in early in any negotiations with the Greens and IMP, nd which ones they are serious about keeping.

      Personally, Im in favour of the UBI (which I dont think is Labour policy) and a financial transaction (which may be some form of the Hone tax, but Im not too sure), but I cant see IMP getting much off their wishlist unless they get over 5%

      And with the left vote fragmented over three parties, I can see a bit of a shit fight coming up if they were able to form a government. PM Winston anyone?

      • bad12 11.2.1

        Now that you mention it, i have the sneaking suspicion that Winston will be demanding the PM’s spot from both left and right as the opening ambit in the post election negotiations,(should NZFirst attain the 5%)…

  12. Molly 12

    Claudette Hauiti has drawn the short straw.

    Wonder whether this is accompanied by the National party golden handshake that other retiring MP’s are rumoured getting.

    • karol 12.1

      Why waste her time, if she’s not out to help campaign for the Nats party vote out of commitment to the party. Little chance of winning Kelston. Low list placement.

    • bad12 12.2

      Cheers, Twice Claudette has mistaken Her sense of entitlement in Her short time in the Parliament, the first hiring Her partner, on the taxpayers purse, to do ‘work’ in Her electorate office,

      The second, having a splurge on the Parliament’s P card, the credit card Parliamentary services issue to MP’s With A Set Of Rules,

      The ‘Honorable’ thing for Hauiti to have done after making Her second ‘mistake’ surrounding what can only be described as sucking at the trough far above her pay grade, was to resign…

    • freedom 12.3

      So that makes 17 new National candidates looking for a spot in their ‘stable’ government.

      Act is dead. Maori Party is dead. United Future is who? One does wonder.. with almost a third of their team being complete parliamentary novices, with seasoned MPs few and far between and with long serving Ministers caught up in numerous portfolio problems of one sort or another, (many of which will resurface in people’s minds before the election) where is this stable government they keep talking about going to get its stability from?

    • Ron 12.4

      Don’t forget she was a former Labour Campaigner, one has to admire in some ways the ability of National to remove politicians when they think it is necessary. I sometimes wish Labour had the leaders that could exercise the removal when required. One of the reasons we are getting so many problems now is the aged pollies that will not step down when their time is up.

  13. northshoreguynz 13


    The Nats lose another one. There must be a very shallow gene pool for them to choose from.

    • James 13.1

      Im wondering how many of your stars you are going to lose if the election comes in with you in the low 20’s.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.2

      About 3% – the approximate level of psychopathy in the general population.

      • emergency mike 13.2.1

        Where do you get 3% from DTB? I thought 1% was the standard guesstimate.

        • Draco T Bastard

          Depends upon who you read and how old the book is. Older books that I’ve read have it as between 3 and 5% while newer tend to be going down to the 1 to 3%. I chose the middle of the range.

          • Colonial Viper

            We’ve created a dysfunctional society and economy where latent sociopaths who would previously have been kept suppressed are now encouraged to actively flower and fully express themselves. So the higher end.

  14. Bearded Git 14

    This is so good-click on the first picture that comes up and keep clicking.

    Please share.

    • karol 14.1

      Why? If I’m going to click on something, I’d like some clue as to what it is.

      • Bearded Git 14.1.1

        Good point karol-sorry.

        It’s a long album of pictures that cleverly illustrates the poor policies and cock-ups of the Key junta over the last 6 years.

      • veutoviper 14.1.2

        It is an excellent compilation of things that Key would like us all to forget. Well put together in terms of the issues and the presentation (eg photos used in respect of each issue).

        Thanks BG. I would love to see that used as an ad on TV etc in the lead up to the election.

        • Bearded Git

          great idea veuto.

          I have suggested adding a picture related to the gutting of the RMA which will occur if the Nats get back.

        • KJT

          And! The signal that they will make the biggest changes ever to welfare and workplace rights.

          Which is why it is so important that Labour gets their shit together.

  15. karol 15

    Stuff poll not working for Key’s transport policy in Auckland:

    But in Auckland a clear majority – 54 per cent – said the Government was falling short against 43 per cent who thought it was doing enough.

    The poll will be a blow to the Government’s transport policy which has emphasised road building, and in particular its flagship Roads of National Significance, and has rebuffed calls from Auckland Mayor Len Brown for an early start to the city rail link.

    National also made its roading policy the centrepiece of Prime Minister John Key’s speech to National’s annual conference, with a promise to spend $212 million from the sale of state-owned assets to upgrade 14 roads across the country.

    “Team Key has always been very focused on roads,” Key said at the time.

    Green Party transport spokeswoman Julie Anne Genter said the numbers reflected a worldwide trend in cities that people wanted more choice.

  16. Clemgeopin 16

    TWO items of interest to me:

    [1] News from Stuff:

    Labour leader David Cunliffe will try to seize back the initiative today when he announces plans for a fund for economic development projects in the regions.

    Cunliffe is set to use his appearance at the Local Government New Zealand conference in Nelson to say that if elected Labour would set aside tens of millions of dollars a year for a contestable fund for regional capital projects, focusing on infrastructure development.

    Today’s announcement by Cunliffe will be the latest in an attempt to promote Labour’s plan for an “economic upgrade”.

    It is also expected that regional development would be restored as a ministerial portfolio.

    Labour’s fund would take a “triple bottom line” approach where projects allocated funds would not necessarily need to make a commercial return to the Crown, but would be justified on the basis that the Treasury coffers would be boosted long-term through higher income tax and lower welfare payments coming from increased employment.

    More details here:

    [2] There was a ‘Live chat with David Cunliffe’ on the Stuff website yesterday with some interesting questions and answers. What was particularly interesting to me were the comments and votes that are found under the chat in the comments section. Shows there is a lot of support for Cunliffe and Labour. But there seem to be a set of nasty right wing brigade that does not debate the issues, nor talk about Key, National or its policies, but are simply there to make very derogatory nasty comments against Cunliffe and Labour. Seems to me like an organised right wing set up. Take a look:


    • Bearded Git 16.1

      Clem-can I say thank you for this post. So good to read something positive.

      And Gosman has done enough to be banned IMHO.

      • bad12 16.1.1

        Thank the various deity then Bearded git that you do not get to participate in saying who can and who cant comment here at the Standard,

        In a short time i would imagine that there would be a very small circle of commenters sitting in the magic circle chanting ‘ohm ohm, Labour Good everyone else bad’…

    • Clemgeopin 16.2

      Take a look at the concerted dodgy unfair mass attack and votes against Cunliffe and Labour in the comments under an article today about Cunliffe.

    • Draco T Bastard 16.3

      I looked at some of the comments yesterday and they were nasty. A good moderator would not have let a lot of them through so I question why Stuff did.

      • idlegus 16.3.1

        a good moderator wouldn’t be letting someone naming themselves “David Cunliffe” leave right wing troll messages on that stuff article, i never seen anything quite like it, bad form.

  17. ianmac 17

    Another one down the drain???!!!
    “National list MP Claudette Hauiti has decided to withdraw from the election and politics altogether.”
    She didn’t do too well on Backbenchers did she.

    • fender 17.1

      “She didn’t do too well on Backbenchers did she.”

      No she really exposed herself as being way out of her depth. She wasn’t even able to articulate what rape culture is until the two males explained it to her.

      It’s a shame that a party in dire need of quality female representation can’t get anything better than the motley crew of shouty domineering (Collins, Bennett, Tolley) type.

  18. swordfish 18

    I’ve been wondering for a while now why I’ve never much cared for Deborah Hill Cone.

    I used to think it was because she’s a far Right Neo-Lib who shamelessly trades on her South African Mother’s history of liberal, anti-apartheid activism.

    But now I’ve come to realise the problem is much more simple than that: she just isn’t sexy enough.

    • ianmac 18.1

      Not sexy enough and certainly unattractive. Wouldn’t like to share a bed with her.

    • Draco T Bastard 18.2

      😆 😈

    • Tom Jackson 18.3

      I definitely would NOT hit it. Just look at those sharp knees. She is way below my standard.

    • KJT 18.4

      Then she says something like this, which is rather good.

      “Also, rich or poor, we all do stupid, irrational things. It’s just that when you are relatively rich, you can disguise it better. When you are rich, no one tells you off for doing crazy emotional s***, they just say you are eccentric.

      Why is it that people who are struggling are supposed to be more virtuous than Cactus or me, when both of us, despite not having lots of children, will have done any number of other dumb things?

      Anyway my ill-advised road trip up north ended with me driving for nine hours and going home again, cosily insulated by my privilege. No harm done. Told you: I’m stupid, but fortunate. But not everyone is as lucky as me..”

      “Cosily insulated by my privilege” are not the words of an air headed RWNJ.

      • bad12 18.4.1

        That’s interesting, Linda Clark made a couple of interesting observations on Jim Moron’s bit of drivel at RadioNZ national yesterday speaking about the old adage ”it takes a village to raise a child”,

        Clark sounded like a true Socialist when She pointed out the ‘networking’ that Her privileged life allowed Her greatly enhanced the ability of that old adage to become a reality, while the poverty and the social dislocation associated with such poverty greatly hampered the chances of the poor in creating and enhancing such networks,

        In the final analysis tho, you have to ask who or what these people vote for, the protection of their privilege or the chance to extend at least some of that privilege to those without any…

  19. Skinny 19


    • Chooky 19.1

      smirk…i dont fancy her either …

      • nadis 19.1.1

        You know when people talk about rape culture?

        Well this is what they mean, treating women as “fuckable” or “not fuckable”. “Smirk” “Not sexy enough” – seriously you guys are such incredible hypocrites. If a “righty” made these comments you’d be outraged but because you in the left are doing it, it’s ok – just having a laugh.

        Seriously? Those comments look lifted straight from the 1950’s.

        • Tom Jackson

          I take it you didn’t read her last column.

        • Chooky

          @ nadis

          i’m a girl Chooky not a Rooster …and i dont fancy her on my perch…nor do i fancy you!….smirk

          …she is a bloody right winger know- it- all philosopher/psychologist/journalist/creative BNZ writer award winner…smug know it all …..most unappealing…male , female , transgender , hermaphrodite, animal or vegetable

  20. Chooky 20

    Why we need a very strong government guaranteed Kiwi Bank….a New Zealand Bank for New Zealanders , by new Zealanders, for New Zealand’s future….Bank profits for New Zealand!

    The Greens and Winston Peters are on the button


    ….as if we didnt have enough trouble with Goldman Sachs sniffing around…and Oz Banks ripping us off ….now we have Chinese Banks wanting to get their fingers into everything

    • and shipley continuing that long tradition of national party politicians selling out new zealand..

      ..for their own short-term personal gain…

      ..walking around with big for sale/hire signs around their necks..

      • Chooky 20.1.1

        Last time I heard National Party Shipley was a trained primary school teacher…not a banker

        ….”We will be looking to be broad-based,” Shipley said.

        The bank was keen to get exposure to primary industries including forestry, fishing, agriculture, and potentially exploration, she said. “It would have to fit our appetite and criteria, but we are very much open to significant transactions.”


  21. Draco T Bastard 21

    It just keeps on happening:

    Onshore wind is now the cheapest form of new electricity generation in Denmark, undercutting coal power, according to the government’s energy agency

    And we could have that cheapness here as well – if the government stopped trying to prevent progress and started to enable it instead.

    • wtl 21.1

      I’m pretty sure that the lack of cheapness here is seen by the current government as a feature, not a bug.

      • Draco T Bastard 21.1.1

        I’m sure that they do. It won’t help them though as people start to realise that the current government is costing them more than is required as more and more of these stories get through. They’ll start to wonder why this government keeps batting for fossil fuels when they can have cheaper, sustainable power.

    • Rosie 21.2

      Drax, surprisingly one good project that has got under way during the current govt’s term is the Mill Creek wind farm out at Ohariu:


      I can see these glorious majestic beauties from my house, the ones being tested are gracefully turning in the breeze.

      To the south is the Makara wind farm

      Makara Wind Farm

      I see though, on the Meridian site, that of the 3 planned wind farm sites for NZ, that two have stalled and one is one hold. They cite “market conditions” as the contributing factor……………

      • Molly 21.2.1

        Blueskin Energy Project is a community initiated wind-generation power scheme, that resulted from the Transition Towns approach.

        From their website:

        “Blueskin Power aspires to have achieved the following by 2020

        Families and individuals in Blueskin Communities will:

        • Be free of fuel poverty, with warm comfortable energy efficient homes.
        • Own the means to generate sufficient local renewable energy to meet the communities needs.
        • Be linked to each other, and within each community, by a comprehensive walking-cycling network.
        • Provide ‘open-door’ education to promote and teach others of our achievements.”
  22. Te Reo Putake 22

    Ah, that Kim Dotcom, he’s got quite the sense of humour!


    Hi, I’m Batman.



    **kills hooker*

    Hahahahaha, hilarious. I hear the Internet party’s womens’ policy comes with a free T shirt and a bucket of water.

  23. James 23

    Its OK – he’s against Key – he can do no wrong.

    Lets bitch about “rape culture” – then talk about going onto power with someone that make rape jokes and jokes about killing hookers.

    Good look guys !

    • One Anonymous Bloke 23.1

      What a lovely circular argument you have James.

      Can you do better than construct a false frame around false assertions? I bet you can.

      The electorate will decide who negotiates with who. After the election. Meanwhile, before the election, #teamkey brings its own lubricant to meetings with Jamie Unclecousin and Cray-Cray Colin. In bed with incest advocates and fundies. Onya mate.

    • Naki man 23.2

      Kim, the lefts only hope, he is all class.

  24. James 24

    and to back it up – “15 rape jokes that work” – from the “visionary” of the party so many of you love to hate: https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/242743533524643841

    So – standing up to him on rape culture then ???? ahh, no didnt think so.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 24.1

      The way he tells it Laila gave him the smackdown, and yeah, I think he contributed to rape culture, just like no National Party supporter or MP ever did ever no matter who gets name suppression, honest, truly really why don’t you believe me?

      Your argument seems predicated on the notion that taking someone’s money means they corrupt your ethics, coughOravidacough own goal much?

  25. Minarch 25

    Ultra-rich man’s letter: “To My Fellow Filthy Rich Americans: The Pitchforks Are Coming”


  26. a formula u can rely on…

    ..jim mora + graeme bell = dog + park..

    • deep throat 26.1

      go phil.
      the trolls hate you r guts because you do your own thing.
      that is the one thing they cant stand.
      you are a real man.

  27. Clean_power 27

    The sorries keep coming – My holiday was too long.

    Why is he apologising?

    • i think it is time cunnliffe apologised..for his serial-apologising…

      • Chooky 27.1.1

        lol…maybe he needs to be a little less Christian and a little bit more hard boiled political leader?!…take some lessons from the late Robert Muldoon…maybe drink some gin and learn to snarl

        ….fuck the apologising over trivia!….the right wing and adversaries will have him apologising into his grave…falling on his sword with apologies

        …he needs to toughen up!

        ….the Left need a leader who will stick a red hot poker up the bums of John Key’s Nactional

  28. joe90 28

    So who woulda thunk it – most U.S. terrorist prosecutions have been nothing more than the FBI manipulating people with disabilities.

    The FBI often targeted particularly vulnerable people, including those with intellectual and mental disabilities and the indigent. The government, often acting through informants, then actively developed the plot, persuading and sometimes pressuring the targets to participate, and provided the resources to carry it out.


  29. freedom 29

    Covering your ass is a Minister’s reflex, we get that. But c’mon, a little detail is not a lot to ask for.
    Wouldn’t a senior reporter for the NZ Herald ask what information the Minister is referring to?
    Was this poor journalism or a suspiciously obvious Editor’s pen?


  30. Ffloyd 30

    Can someone please explain what the problem is with David Cunliffe’s scarf?????. Paddy revisiting DC’s supposed gaffes brought up the scarf. The scarf!!!! What’s wrong with his blimming scarf.?! This is all getting beyond a joke. To me Cunliffe is all about NZ and it’s people. He wants the best for NZ and is bringing out policies to achieve this whereas key rarely mentions the ordinary citizens of NZ. He would like us all not to exist. Well, we do and I will definitely be voting Labour. I am sick to death of the daily sabotaging of DC and it needs to stop. For any negative there is a positive and we should all be looking at Labour’s policies and how they will improve our country and stop indulging in this constant sideshow that achieves absolutely nothing.

    • Chooky 30.1

      @Ffloyd…it shows what a threat David Cunliffe is regarded by the John Keys Nactional and their right wing hangers- on journalists and PR spinners

      …the pettiness and bullying it is really a reassuring sign that they are seriously rattled, if you think about it

      …they also went after Helen Clark like a pack of dogs…because they saw her as being their biggest impediment to winning

    • JK 30.2

      Hey – Ffloyd – I took the “scarf” comments as David C having a bit of a joke – courtesy of Paddy Gower !!
      At the end of the apology for the apolgy about being a man, and the apology for whatever else he said that was wrong, DC then said he also apologised for wearing his red scarf too often and he’d try not to do so in future …. like, apologies are for serious things ….. and the scarf is not serious ! Its red, and it keeps him warm …… and it looks good in winter. Keep the scarf on David C – it looks good !

      • Ffloyd 30.2.1

        JK I hope he does too. Wouldn’t put it past the herald to turn it into a national discussion somehow. I had already read somewhere, someone banging on about Cunliffe’s scarf. Can’t remember where but thought at the time it was a bit desperate.

  31. greywarbler 31

    It was sad listening to Oz Julie Bishop’s impassioned speech about the airline crash and bringing the bodies home to Oz. It sounded like someone from a country with high standards of respect for people that had never seen or heard of such an outrage.

    But that country isn’t Australia, where Julie Bishop is Minister of Foreign Affairs and Tony Abbott ministers to no-one. What they have done when dealing with vulnerable people’s lives is shocking also. It’s interesting to hear outrage from countries like Oz and UK which have themselves caused loss of life, anguish, and death. Really it is just another, different sort of tragedy off the menu of man’s inhumanity to man.

    • bad12 31.1

      It also must have been ‘a different’ US navy that used a missile to shoot a fully laden Iranian civilian airline out of the sky in the Gulf in the time of my living memory…

      • Colonial Viper 31.1.1

        Which occurred while said US warship had illegally entered Iranian territorial waters, and the Captain of that warship decided to launch upon a target flying relatively slowly and gradually increasing it’s altitude i.e. behaviour exactly fitting a passenger airliner.

        • bad12

          It will be interesting what is said, if anything, about the latest from the Russian’s on the missile carrier seen on the back of the white truck on our tv screens recently,

          The footage was used to point the finger at the ‘separatists’, the Russians now say that based upon the billboard, also clearly seen in the tv footage here, the footage of that truck was not taken in the area held by the ‘separatists’ as there are no billboards which match the one shown in the territory held by them,

          There are however said to be billboards which fit the one pictured in the Ukrainian Government held areas, the Ukranian Government have also of course a number of the missile launching systems in their possession…

          • Colonial Viper

            I daresay that east Ukraine was/is the most militarily surveilled bit of geography in eastern Europe.

            With their constant aerial reconnaissance and satellite surveillance, the Russians, US and NATO know exactly where the missile which downed MH-17 was fired from, and very likely have all the command and control radio transmissions associated with the order recorded.

            With that understood, what is being played out and said on the TV cameras is very interesting indeed.

            • bad12

              The phony war CV, misinformation to direct the opinions of the uninformed, and those who choose to be so,

              Guess which powerful nation in the world has got a huge supply of unused gas and oil that is likely to last 50,60,70 years after the Western World has sucked the last of the reachable resource from the ground,

              Couple that with animosities that have traveled down through time and the history of man,

              Add in the fact that whenever the bean-counters cannot make any sense of the numbers anymore then its time for a massive conflagration, a display from the masters of their anger, their rage, which throughout history has called for the slaughter of the sacrificial lamb in the form of millions of their fellow humans when the boom that busted refuses once again to boom…

      • Murray Olsen 31.1.2

        The USS Vincennes had been taken over by Russian Muslims. The Iranian plane would never have been shot down by the peace loving US and A.

        As for Julie Bishop – she represented asbestos when people were dying and the company didn’t want to admit any liability. She is as foul as Gusher Collins, and as lusted after by sexually deprived right wingers. Yuck.

    • Chooky 31.2

      Tony Abbott is contemptible imo…an ex Catholic priest he also supports the Israelis and their atrocities

      …one has to ask in whose interests it was to bring down an Malaysian airliner over that territory ? …who stood most to gain from the adverse publicity?…personally i dont think it was the Russians or Putin

  32. Rodel 32

    Just watched Hosking’s bimbo interviewing Slater.Didn’t manage to switch off quickly enough. Bimbo’s obsequious drooling over this megalomaniac’s (psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence.) self aggrandizement and Hoskings supporting her.
    At first thought they were taking the piss but I think they were taking him seriously.
    Must be the depths of TV1.

  33. karol 33

    Israeli forces have fired warning shots into the building in which Al Jazeera is based in Gaza:

    Al Jazeera’s Stephanie Dekker reports on the warning shots that Israel army fired on Al Jazeera’s bureau in Gaza.

    “Two very precise shots were fired straight into our building.

    The Israeli army has confirmed it hit two warning shots into our office I am not sure what the reason would be.

    It caused a lot of panic, especially among the civilians working in the building.

    We are high so we have a very strong vantage point over the area and perhaps they wanted us to move out.”

    • ianmac 33.1

      That happened in the early days of the Bagdad occupation when rockets were fired into Al Jazeera’s offices, the American’s claiming that they thought people were shooting from the office. Several were killed. Accident huh?

    • vto 33.2

      The Israelis are frikkin’ mad and dangerous and hell bent on genocide of their fellow arabs…. who on earth let them have nuclear weapons?

  34. North 34

    Whadya reckon NakiLessMan ? Still wonder why I call them Nazis do ya ? You and anyone else clutching their pearls can stick ya Godwin’s up your arse. It’s the truth as you’ll conclude……

  35. Clemgeopin 35

    I think people like Gosman and other right wing plants/activists are here, in my opinion, for a non genuine or suspect reason: They seem to be here to be vexatious, argumentative and time wasting about trivia and put downs of Labour and Mr Cunliffe. The more I read their posts the more I feel so. This distracts us from discussing serious issues, politics, policies and strategies as well as creating unnecessary negative feelings and angst.

    I have no problem with honest discussions of differing/opposing views. I have a problem of the motive behind the posts seems to be crooked.

    I think the way to deal with these dodgy and nasty characters is to engage with them just a little, but not TOO much! It is enough if they are given one or two replies to their constantly negative posts and ignored after that because, no matter how much one tries to reason with them, they are not here to be corrected or to be convinced otherwise. That is one reason I rarely reply to their inane dubious posts.

    I have also noticed a swarm of right wing Nat supporters/activists/army in readers’ comments section in MSM, Stuff, and TV news sites constantly making down right unfair nasty and vicious comments/remarks/abuse about Mr Cunliffe and Labour. I can understand if there are a few such comments, even up to 40% to 50%, but not in the huge % they appear. I strongly suspect an organised plan is going on to poison people’s minds against Labour/Cunliffe. They did try similar dirty tricks against Goff and Shearer too. Now they are doing it to Mr Cunliffe.

    It is a shame that our journalists and political commentators haven’t noticed or seem to be complicit in this.

    I am hoping that most general public being honest and fair minded will soon begin to see the unfair, undemocratic, uncouth tactic that seems to have been unleashed.

    • Murray Olsen 35.1

      I agree about the Tory sub-bridge dwellers. I must remember not to respond to them. They are probably organised and paid for, even if it’s only a bottle of Key’s wine or Paula Benefat’s used intimate apparel. They are sick, lying people who set themselves above other Kiwis. I’d rather they were shut out of here, but I don’t make those decisions.

  36. philj 36

    Another deflating opinion piece in the Press on David Cunliffe today by Andrea Vance,( If I remember correctly) Such a not too subtle put down. Shocking propaganda. Two bottles of Pinot this Xmas, is it journo?

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