Open mike 22/08/2011

121 comments on “Open mike 22/08/2011 ”

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1. travellerev 1

   22 August 2011 at 7:46 am

   Why is nobody asking questions?

   Today it was announced that we should prepare for more leading combat roles for SAS members in Afghanistan!

   So let me get this straight; Osama bin laden is dead, chucked of a boat in the Indian ocean, women have been liberated and the Afghan people are forever grateful for their “Liberation” (As MSM propaganda will have you believe) and we have been at war for almost 10 years in that God forsaken hell hole contaminating the country for the next 4.5 billion years with Depleted Uranium and now we are to take on more lead roles fighting the “Taliban”?

   And all this when the Pentagon plans to stay in Afghanistan forever while selling the war as ended to the US citizens?

   So again: Why is nobody here asking questions?

   Such as why should we send more soldiers to their deaths when the “International” communities are saying no to requests of the US to stay involved and Aeroplane pilots and Engineers are staking their careers in TV ads in the US to demand a new and independent investigation into the events of 911?!

   Could it be that we have now officially become part of the Global US army and that they need our soldiers to die in Afghanistan while they spread more destruction and death in Libya and soon too in Syria?

   Do Kiwi’s want to be part of the war crimes of the international money master elites and do they want to help rich oil barons steal the oil from every country around the world were it is found?
    
   • The Voice of Reason 1.1

     22 August 2011 at 7:56 am

     I must say, it’s going very well in Libya. The new regime have entered the outer suburbs of Tripoli to be greeted by jubilation from the citizens. Gaddafi will be dead or gone in days, which is excellent news. And in Kabul, our soldiers continue to do the hard yards training the locals despite the risks. You’ve really got to admire our guys for upholding NZ’s international reputation as being some of the world’s best fighters.
      
     As for airline pilots and engineers risking their jobs talking bollocks, well, that’s their choice. Personally, I prefer my pilots to be sane, so no downside there that I can see.
     • travellerev 1.1.1

       22 August 2011 at 9:19 am

       For those of you who don’t have blinkers on and want to know about the reality of the war in Libya Here is a link about how the NATO is supporting Muslim extremists in Libya while fighting those same Muslim extremists in Afghanistan and here is another one about how the MSM is lying about what they are doing in Libya and here is a leaked plan about what they are planning for Libya after they conquer it with their illegal war of aggression.

       TVOR, Good for you to be proud of the killing capacity of the NZ soldiers while they fight Muslim extremists in Afghanistan while NATO is fighting with the same Muslim extremists to steal the Libyan oil and gold. God, you’re soo stupid.

       And for those of you who are actually capable of learning something new here is a 15 minute video from Architects and Engineers for a new investigation into the collapse of WTC 7
       
       • rosy 1.1.1.1

         22 August 2011 at 9:35 am

         here is another one about how the MSM is lying about what they are doing in Libya
         I’m watching the rebels rolling into Tripoli and people celebrating in the streets on SkyNewsUK right now. The contradicts your second link completely. Strange watching the reporters rolling through the streets and seeing Gaddafi’s spokespeople denying it at the same time. Apparently Gaddafi’s son, Saif al-Islam, has been captured and his presidential guard has surrendered.

         Edit: I’m not saying I agree with NATO, or not. Just that it’s very strange to see something on TV at the same time as reading a link that so clearly denies it.
         • travellerev 1.1.1.1.1

           22 August 2011 at 9:59 am

           I’m watching Sky online.

           Here are a few issues to remember when watching this footage:
           First of all NATO has been bombing the only water supply to Tripoli several weeks ago, they bombed food supplies and hospitals making the lives of the People living in Tripoli a living hell so they would be relieved to find that that may come to an end. 

           Second the Muslim extremist rebels are closely aligned to tribes traditionally opposing leadership from Gaddafi’s tribe and many of those could be living in Tripoli accounting for the people welcoming them at the outskirts of Tripoli.

           I will be watching and reading as I usually do but to be honest in a city of more then a million people the turn out struck me as less then overwhelming.
           • rosy 1.1.1.1.1.1

             22 August 2011 at 10:06 am

             I’m guessing it;s all pretty fragile and there may be fighting yet to come. Notable is that NATO have given a warning to the rebels that they remain intent on protecting civilians – a warning not to exact revenge maybe? Surely Gaddafi is gone. It’s the forming of a new government and cohesion between opposition forces that’s the focus now. Interesting times.

             Edit: Al Jazeera is reporting that two of Gaddafi’s sons, Saif al-Islam and Al-Saadi, have been arrested and another son, Muhammad, has surrendered. Gosh it’s moving fast.
             • vto …

               22 August 2011 at 10:11 am

               Yes well done to Britain, France and Italy in invading another sovereign nation again.

               Who will next be subjected to English bombs do you think?
               • travellerev …

                 22 August 2011 at 10:26 am

                 Syria.

                 And for your information NATO is an extension of the US empire army they just did not want to be the one calling the war so France and England took the lead on this one.
         • travellerev 1.1.1.1.2

           22 August 2011 at 11:00 am

           Interesting. Here are photos of the events in Libya. The masses shown celebrating the “liberation” are photographed in Benghazi which is the town where the rebellion started and most definitely of the tribe opposing Gaddafi. Photo’s of rebels entering Tripoli do not show huge masses greeting them.
           In fact 375 people have died and a 1000 wounded in the fighting indicating opposition to the rebellion.
       • The Voice of Reason 1.1.1.2

         22 August 2011 at 9:54 am

         Ha! You’re a truther, a birther and and a climate change denier, trav and yet you reckon I’m the one with the blinkers on. Funny old world, eh?
         • travellerev 1.1.1.2.1

           22 August 2011 at 10:18 am

           Here are a nice couple of photo’s of Chemtrails as they are caught on film around the world and here is a clip of Germany at least admitting they are releasing tons of toxic chemicals in the air to influence weather patterns and here is Ron Polland, Ph.D telling in a press conference that he is the one who created the short form birth certificate and that it is a forgery.

           I will have you know I live rurally were I try to live as sustainable, toxin free and of the grid as possible without returning to the stone age and will continue to do so but while hundreds of weather modification businesses in the US alone are playing with the planets weather patterns I will keep my opinion about what is causing the Chaotic weather patterns of the last 10 years firmly close to the chest knowing there are idiots like you around.
         • Vicky32 1.1.1.2.2

           22 August 2011 at 6:31 pm

           Ha! You’re a truther, a birther and and a climate change denier, trav and yet you reckon I’m the one with the blinkers on. Funny old world, eh?

           And you’re a pro-war, militaristic creep, with a hate-on against brown people, or is it just Muslims you loathe? Your blinkers are red white and blue, and I am sure you masturbate to the Star Spangled Banner. Words can’t describe how loathsome I find your militaristic rants.
           • The Voice of Reason 1.1.1.2.2.1

             22 August 2011 at 7:30 pm

             And you’re an idiot, Deb. Where did I say I was in anyway opposed to “brown people”? Go on, give me an example of racism of any kind. Here’s a time saving hint: don’t bother. There aren’t any.
              
             Ev is indeed a truther, birther and climate change denier. If you have an issue with that fact, take it up with her.
              
             I am not militaristic in any sense, but I respect the fact that our armed forces have always punched above their weight in every war since we were a country, even the dodgy ones. That, in part, gives us the international respect that allows us to be able to lead the world in other areas, such as the peace and nuclear free movements. We are seen as honest brokers with significant moral authority, because we have always carried our load and more.
              
             And as for the red white and blue blinkers, I have never been to the States, have no interest in going and if the welcome at airports still starts with ‘are you now or have ever been …’ then they’re not letting me in anyway. 
             • prism …

               22 August 2011 at 8:05 pm

               @TVOR – Are you taking issue with Deb or vicky32?
               • The Voice of Reason …

                 22 August 2011 at 8:14 pm

                 Vicky 32 has ‘signed’ comments as Deb on occasion, but I’m not sure if the poster using Deb as a handle is the same person.

                 [lprent: There is also a different Deb who is not Vicky32. ]
             • Vicky32 …

               23 August 2011 at 4:46 pm

               And you’re an idiot, Deb. Where did I say I was in anyway opposed to “brown people”? Go on, give me an example of racism of any kind. Here’s a time saving hint: don’t bother. There aren’t any.

               I inferred your racism from your many enthusiastic posts about killing Muslims, most of whom are brown.

               Ev is indeed a truther, birther and climate change denier. If you have an issue with that fact, take it up with her.

               I have no issue with Ev, so stop trying to turn her and me against each other. It won’t work, we’re not as stupid as you seem to think. My issue is with you. 

               I am not militaristic in any sense, but I respect the fact that our armed forces have always punched above their weight in every war since we were a country, even the dodgy ones. That, in part, gives us the international respect that allows us to be able to lead the world in other areas, such as the peace and nuclear free movements. We are seen as honest brokers with significant moral authority, because we have always carried our load and more.

               What utter tripe! Respect, honest brokers and all the rest? Just Shonkeys impious hope… 90% of recent posts by you have shown you creaming your jeans about our military and that of the USA. You don’t have to have been there, to pin all your hopes and dreams on the Evil Empire…
               • Vicky32 …

                 23 August 2011 at 4:49 pm

                 By the way, I have asked before that you stop calling me Deb. I might be forced to call you Dick! 😀 Now, since you ignored my request I am begging.
               • The Voice of Reason …

                 23 August 2011 at 5:31 pm

                 So no evidence that I’m a racist then, Vicky32? Just your own feeble fantasy again? Just for the record, can you point me to one of my many enthusiastic posts about killing Muslims? Nah, don’t bother. You can’t, because you are making it up. You, on the other hand, clearly do have issues with bigotry. I recall you are proudly homophobic and your references to Fatty Garner and Fatty McRoberts suggests you have problems in other areas, too. Rather than make shit up about me, why don’t you get help for those character flaws?
                  
                 And as for the masturbatory references, I can only repeat that I am not your posh Pommie boyfriend from long ago so please keep the wanking to yourself.
                  
                 I will stop using your name, as it’s entirely your business what you prefer to be called by so I’ll stick to Vicky32 in future.
                  
                 • Vicky32 …

                   23 August 2011 at 5:48 pm

                   So no evidence that I’m a racist then, Vicky32? Just your own feeble fantasy again? Just for the record, can you point me to one of my many enthusiastic posts about killing Muslims?

                   Seriously? You’re pro every war against Islam that’s going. Either because you’re right wing, racist or a screaming terrified atheist. Pick one. I’ll get help when you do. Your idols Garner and McRoberts have lost weight recently, so I will stop calling them fatty, if you demand it.

                   And as for the masturbatory references, I can only repeat that I am not your posh Pommie boyfriend from long ago so please keep the wanking to yourself.

                   Nasty and personal! I don’t know what “posh Pommie boyfriend” you’re referring to, but it’s just like you take what was probably a throw-away line to bash me with. I thank God you are not my boyfriend, I would never consider you for a micro-second. FYI the person you’re probably referring to, was a husband, not a boyfriend, and my current boyfriend is an Italian. Care to dish out any anti-Italian remarks? I can help you out with them if you wish.. 
                   • travellerev …

                     23 August 2011 at 5:54 pm

                     Vicky,
                     Does he cook?
                   • The Voice of Reason …

                     23 August 2011 at 6:03 pm

                     Cheers for the response. Just to clarify, you have no evidence what so ever that I am a racist, but you ‘think’ I support every anti-Islamic war going. Again, I’d love to see the evidence of that, which I guess will be hard because I don’t think they are any, though the Sudanese secession had elements of religious factionalism.
                      
                     Citations, please. Show me where I’ve ever said anything specifically anti-Islamic. Not just anti-religious in total, but specifically against Islam. And also where I’ve ever said anything nice about Garner and McRoberts.
                      
                     I do think that Paulo di Canio is a twat though and gelato would be better if it came in Hokey Pokey flavour. Does that count as anti-Italian?
                     Ciao for now!
                 • travellerev …

                   23 August 2011 at 8:18 pm

                   Well actually this is one reason why you are a racist:

                   You have not taken any interest in finding out who Gaddafi is in the bigger picture and have not asked a single question as to why NATO and the US are attacking every fucking Muslim country that takes their fancy.

                   Another reason for calling you a racist is the fact that you have absolutely no doubt that 19 young mostly Saudi males would have wanted to engage in terrorist attacks in the US even though science clearly shows that to be impossible and…

                   You are a racist for believing everything in the MS media about Muslims and their “Crazy” religion and their perceived aggressiveness while I who have lived with tens of thousands of Muslims for decennia never have encountered any aggression not to me as a woman and not amongst themselves and not towards Jews and Christians until 911 happened and they were criminalised and ostracised.

                   Same for the many women that lived in the same neighbourhoods and for my mother who travelled alone across Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan and did not have a single bad experience with the many many total strangers she encountered and was always treated with the utmost courtesy.

                   You are above all a racist because you assume that the “Western” democratic way is the only way and that we are entitled to attack other countries with brown people because they are not organised the same way while being utterly and totally ignorant of the said countries and their cultures.
                   • The Voice of Reason …

                     23 August 2011 at 8:20 pm

                     So no evidence I’m a racist then? Bugger!
       • grumpy 1.1.1.3

         22 August 2011 at 10:09 am

         I didn’t realise the Taliban were in Libya.

         I agree with VoR, publish the names and employing airlines of those pilots – I too, like my pilots to be sane!
         • travellerev 1.1.1.3.1

           22 August 2011 at 10:21 am

           Operating out of the Libyan cities of Benghazi, Darna, and Tobruk, Libyan rebels themselves have admitted that many of their members are drawn from Al Qaeda. The London Telegraph has reported that Libyan rebel leader Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi had admitted many of his fighters had just returned from fighting US forces in Iraq. The Telegraph also reported that Hasidi himself had “earlier fought against “the foreign invasion” in Afghanistan, before being captured in 2002 in Peshwar, in Pakistan. He was later handed over to the US, and then held in Libya before being released in 2008.” A United States Army West Point report confirms indeed that fighters drawn from the Libyan cities of Benghazi, Darna, and Tobruk were second only to Saudi Arabia in contributing forces to fight US troops in Iraq. (Prison planet)

           The pilots are happy to identify themselves here
       • aerobubble 1.1.1.4

         22 August 2011 at 12:37 pm

         Saudi Arabia uses its influence differently now. Terrorism is a tool. States clamp
         down on terrorism that serves them no useful purpose, so Nation State will help
         each other where terrorists are not useful to them in some way.

         Cold war meant terrorism was part of the cold war to over throw states.
         After the wall, terrorism has been about extending the pre-peak oil market.
         Now peak oil has arrived, terrorism is about food and energy security,
         Europe, US, China, Saudi, all need state democratic states where terrorists
         cannot hold the world to blackmail.

         Libya sits in the way of substantial expansion of alternative energy sources.
         The world is changing, get over it. Terrorism is being used to push the
         necessary changes and will be heavily clamped down by middle eastern
         muslim ‘soon to be’ democratic states after they have served their purposes.

         This is what Assad, Gaddafi don’t understand or cannot accept.
         Get out of the way already.
     • Colonial Viper 1.1.2

       22 August 2011 at 4:56 pm

       TVOR – why send our SAS to support US/EU oil hunts?
       • The Voice of Reason 1.1.2.1

         22 August 2011 at 7:34 pm

         We’re not, CV, and we shouldn’t go if we are asked. You trying to make a point?
         • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.1.1

           22 August 2011 at 8:02 pm

           Oh the small matter of Libya having the second largest oil reserves in Africa, after Nigeria.
           • The Voice of Reason 1.1.2.1.1.1

             22 August 2011 at 8:03 pm

             Are the SAS in Libya?
             • Colonial Viper …

               22 August 2011 at 8:06 pm

               If our PM is asked for them by Obama they will be. Perhaps as part of a wider reconstruction, peacekeeping or whatever exercise.
               • The Voice of Reason …

                 22 August 2011 at 8:09 pm

                 Ok, gotcha. I don’t think I’d have a problem with a peacekeeper or reconstruction role, but that’s not what the SAS do, that’s regular army work.
       • Gina 1.1.2.2

         23 August 2011 at 8:17 am

         Viper at first glance Libya appears to about oil and that is part of the equation but take a look at this article by Ellen Brown.

         http://www.readersupportednews.org/opinion2/289-134/5625-libya-all-about-oil-or-all-about-banking

         Libya: All About Oil, or All About Banking?

         Several writers have noted the odd fact that the Libyan rebels took time out from their rebellion in March to create their own central bank – this before they even had a government. Robert Wenzel wrote in the Economic Policy Journal:
         I have never before heard of a central bank being created in just a matter of weeks out of a popular uprising. This suggests we have a bit more than a rag tag bunch of rebels running around and that there are some pretty sophisticated influences.

         Alex Newman wrote in the New American:
         In a statement released last week, the rebels reported on the results of a meeting held on March 19. Among other things, the supposed rag-tag revolutionaries announced the “[d]esignation of the Central Bank of Benghazi as a monetary authority competent in monetary policies in Libya and appointment of a Governor to the Central Bank of Libya, with a temporary headquarters in Benghazi.”

         Gina
         Right now there is more oil available for consumption than ever before yet the price is rising because of market manipulation. Oil is now traded as a commodity on markets and apparantly traded thousands of times before it reraches the markets. High oil prices and high demand prevent the US Dollar from collapsing due to the Opec rule stipulating all oil must be traded in American dollars. If the price of oil Doubles then countries need to get twice the the amount of US dollars thus creating demand for the dollar and preventing collapse. I have heard several reports that the 1970’s oil crisis where the price of oil quadrupled was actually a deliberate ploy to save the US dollar. And it seems that any country that starts trading in a different currency is attacked sanctioned and threatened. I.E. Iran, Iraq. They are deemed part of the Axis of evil by the US.
     • Vicky32 1.1.3

       22 August 2011 at 6:17 pm

       I must say, it’s going very well in Libya. The new regime have entered the outer suburbs of Tripoli to be greeted by jubilation from the citizens. Gaddafi will be dead or gone in days, which is excellent news.

       Well, there’s no doubt where you’re coming from, is there? You fit so comfortably with the standard mainstream point of view, you just have to work in finance or human resources! You may say it’s “going very well” in Libya only if you’re either very naive, very conformist or fascistic. To judge by some of the other things you’ve said, I vote for the latter. Why aren’t you out there killng brown people, women and children? A keyboard warrior, oh I see. Send your son if you have one, but your genes where your nasty martial little mouth is.
       War is evil. Those who support it are even more evil.
       • The Voice of Reason 1.1.3.1

         22 August 2011 at 7:32 pm

         There’s no such thing as evil, Deb. There is just human behaviour.
         • Colonial Viper 1.1.3.1.1

           22 August 2011 at 8:01 pm

           Reducing people down to behavioural responses is an over simplistic approach.

           And I’m not comfortable with the ‘evil’ moniker as it gets bandied around too much and has a bunch of judeochristian interpretations associated with it.

           But some stuff that people do, a toxic mix of callous, calculating and cruel, is pretty close to evil.
         • Vicky32 1.1.3.1.2

           23 August 2011 at 4:58 pm

           There’s no such thing as evil, Deb. There is just human behaviour.

           I disagree, and please, please before one of us dies, stop calling me Deb! I have never intentionally signed myself Deb, only when my log-in was malfunctioning… I am not the other woman who signs herself Deb, by what I have seen of her posts, she and I are ideologically opposed. There is such a thing as evil, Dick, and I see that you are wilfully naive, at the very least. (I am not talking about supernatural evil, I believe in it, but I see thaty most do not), I am talking about human evil, of which there is more than enough to go around.
2. Akldnut 2

   22 August 2011 at 8:06 am

   Paula Bennet has already hit the campaign trail door knocking in Glen Eden and handing out her personal businesss cards. It appears that she has started in the area the she faired the worst and had a guy with her ticking off households that took her card so that they would be targeted with campaign literature.

   I wouldn’t shake her hand or accept her card, she said that if there was anything I wanted that they would like to know and help out, so I told her to get off my property lol.

   It came out so fast I missed the opportunity to go off at her.
   • Bored 2.1

     22 August 2011 at 8:39 am

     There is something UNCLEAN abouut these buggers coming to your door. Bit like Jehovahs Witnesses, you try to be civil but you just want them to fuck off.
     • Akldnut 2.1.1

       22 August 2011 at 9:24 am

       Bahaha I was going to but had my wife breathing down my neck telling me not to.
     • Dave 2.1.2

       22 August 2011 at 9:28 am

       A downside to living rural, apart from the slow broadband, is that I don’t get any politicians walking down my driveway. They wouldn’t enjoy the debate I would start, that’s for sure! Asset sales are complete and utter crap, enough said.
   • Lanthanide 2.2

     22 August 2011 at 12:13 pm

     Should have taken her card so she’d waste money sending you campaign material.
   • the pink postman 2.3

     22 August 2011 at 4:03 pm

     Well its the same in Taupo .The blousy L.Upton spends more money advertising than you can imagine.She dominates one of the local papers ,which can only be described as a blue rag, Its a bit annoying but what can one do ? She is a double for a comedic bar maid , a vivious know all . The farmer population preferers her to our former MP Mark Burton who was a far superior MP than this hopeless women will ever be ,Such is the way most farmers vote .Of course they pay very little tax and its such as MP Upton that make that possible.
     • Ianupnorth 2.3.1

       22 August 2011 at 5:05 pm

       Meanwhile in Rotorua Todd ‘Nice but dim’ – body double for Boris Johnson – McClay drives round it his 4×4 texting as he drives.
       BTW – the mayor of Taupo is another tory fruit loop!
3. William Joyce 3

   22 August 2011 at 9:19 am

   Some new pics to send to friends and foes alike.
4. vto 4

   22 August 2011 at 9:45 am

   Why is New Zealand at war in Afghanistan?
   • grumpy 4.1

     22 August 2011 at 10:11 am

     Good question……the best I can find is that Helen Clark sent us there to get brownie points with NATO and the US/UK to get a job at the UN……….
   • the pink postman 4.2

     22 August 2011 at 4:22 pm

     The same reason that the British were there ,the Russian were there ,the Yanks were there and all the rest .WS
5. Cartwright 5

   22 August 2011 at 10:33 am

   “Fat Boastful Blogger Beaten by Old Man with Broken Leg”

   Whale should have put in as much effort in training as he has done in blogging since he lost!! Obviously trying his best to bury the post where he admits defeat.

   Oh, but wait!! He doesn’t have the grace to admit defeat-
   “The result is in. Trevor Mal­lard chal­lenged me to a cycle race. He said I would be too chicken to accept the chal­lenge. I wasn’t and today I fin­ished the challenge.”

   No Whale – a Race Challenge is about Winning, not Just Racing!!He lost the race to the Cripple Duck- but is too juvenile to admit it.

   After months of arrogantly spewing boasts out his blowhole he couldn’t deliver the goods – against an opponent he repeatedly said wouldn’t be good enough.

   “Nev­er­mind. I am fit, have lost weight and what is abun­dantly clear is that trevor Mal­lard has spent 3 months train­ing his arse off to make sure he didn’t lose a bike a race against a fat blogger.”

   All of a sudden when the battle is won – it was all unfair, poor old Fat Blogger.
   Ungracious to the last.

   Whale should man up and realise the proof is in that he’s a nasty boaster, a bad competitor, and a lousy loser.
   • Ianupnorth 5.1

     22 August 2011 at 5:06 pm

     And about to be nailed for being a sickness beneficiary who should go and get a job instead of drawing a benefit!
6. grumpy 6

   22 August 2011 at 10:47 am

   News reports state that the dead NZ SAS soldier was shot by a .50cal round. Now, I may be wrong but I think it unlikely that the Taliban would be using these.

   Could it have been “friendly fire”?
   • McFlock 6.1

     22 August 2011 at 11:42 am

     That’s what investigations are for.
   • the pink postman 6.2

     22 August 2011 at 4:18 pm

     Well grumpy if the Americans were around it well could be. USA forces are well known for their “friendly fire”. Ask any old time Royal Marine who were involved in WW11.
     • Vicky32 6.2.1

       22 August 2011 at 6:39 pm

       I’ve heard of friendly fire incidents even in WW1. The f**king Americans are hopeless.
       • The Voice of Reason 6.2.1.1

         22 August 2011 at 7:46 pm

         What would friendly fire in WW1 have to do with the yanks? They only turned up at the end, remember? I’d say it would be the Poms, and particularly the RAF, who are most associated with historical friendly fire incidents. Including a rather infamous WW2 one in Egypt where hundreds, including many Kiwis, were killed. Mind you, the yanks probably went a bit OTT in the ‘nam, so it may all even out in the end.
         • Puddleglum 6.2.1.1.1

           22 August 2011 at 9:08 pm

           My Dad (Royal Navy, Pacific Fleet then the Normandy landing) told me the following saying:

           When the British fly over the Germans hide;
           When the Germans fly over the British hide;
           When the Italians fly over no-one hides;
           When the Yanks fly over, everyone hides.

           Of course, British soldiers/airmen/sailors had their issues with the Americans in WWII.
         • Vicky32 6.2.1.1.2

           23 August 2011 at 5:02 pm

           What would friendly fire in WW1 have to do with the yanks? They only turned up at the end, remember? I’d say it would be the Poms, and particularly the RAF, who are most associated with historical friendly fire incidents. Including a rather infamous WW2 one in Egypt where hundreds, including many Kiwis, were killed. Mind you, the yanks probably went a bit OTT in the ‘nam, so it may all even out in the end.

           Oh man, and I use the term advisedly, you are so predictable… Sigh…
           • The Voice of Reason 6.2.1.1.2.1

             23 August 2011 at 5:20 pm

             Yep, I’m predictably correct. Look up friendly fire and WW1 and educate yourself.
7. Lanthanide 7

   22 August 2011 at 11:20 am

   Overdue, but welcome:
   “Police have dropped all charges against an autistic man accused of burgling a Christchurch property soon after the February earthquake.”

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5484757/Charges-dropped-against-autistic-looter
   • prism 7.1

     22 August 2011 at 11:33 am

     Defence counsel for autistic man who stole light globes – “He said the physical act was admitted, but issues of mental health and capacity had to be considered.”

     I would suggest also these should have been considered – issues of relevance, triviality and lack of balance in police mission and decision-making, and an attitude of prejudice and authoritarianism.
     • aerobubble 7.1.1

       22 August 2011 at 12:46 pm

       Surely ordinarily Police would have. Just as it could be argued that there was no fence,
       lock door, and the lightbulbs were unlikely to be used tipped this autistic over the edge,
       but also anyone watching him might very well have been otherwise burdened. So
       Should Police have known that something like this would have happened? Yes and No.
       Since they were already hard pressed by the Earthquake.
       Shit happens, the only problem I have is he was locked up, but that seems to be
       due to the rigidity of the rules and not Police but parlliamentary hangups with their
       own nasty controlling egos rather than reality for people on the ground.
       And as we are all aware we have no human rights when it comes to parliamentarians
       making abusive and obscene laws. Government signed the convention but can
       discriminate anyway.
       • prism 7.1.1.1

         22 August 2011 at 3:34 pm

         aerobubble I think you are being too kind to the police. I am shocked at this breach of reason and reasonableness on their part. And the thing is – even the building’s owners were not fazed. There must be some testosterone rush which affect the police in emergency situations like this (and remember women have some of this hormone too.. Or that part of our brains called an amygdala which goes on alert at moments of stress (the fight or flight reaction) before the reasoning part takes over and perhaps this has happened in this case.
         • aerobubble 7.1.1.1.1

           23 August 2011 at 3:04 pm

           I sort of disagree, police by wanting to refer the man to a psychologist are
           essentially handing the defense their case. There was reasonable suspicion in
           the minds of Police that intent was dubious. As to the brain, everyone of us
           has a hang up of some kind, even not having any is itself called narcissism.
           I can see how stressed Police may have acted authomatically in the stressful
           Earthquake city context, a bout of organizational aspbergers.
           Police should know surely that past behaviour is heavily predictable for future
           behaviour. The individual was somewhere he should not have been, doing
           something that was dangerous, bricks may have fallen on him. Now
           Police surely should have twigged that someone stealing light fixtures,
           risking their life to do so, was a form of self harming and so more suidical
           than criminal. Police should not be seeking evidence for guilt, they should
           be building a case from the ground up, and if they had they would have
           realized this individual has serious problems in their life.
           • vto 7.1.1.1.1.1

             23 August 2011 at 3:28 pm

             What about the investigation into the officer/s who assaulted the poor lad leaving him with a black eye or two?

             Or do we all just quietly ignore that ………………….
             • aerobubble …

               24 August 2011 at 2:06 pm

               Yes. I hope we find out why he ended that night like that. He says he can’t
               remember. It looks really bad for Police to lock someone away for do something
               suicidally stupid because he couldn’t help himself. But hey, that’s also what JK
               does all the time with ignoring the global debt, peak oil and climate change.
               So what’s new? Well trust in our government to govern. At first I didn’t
               see the problem but now I think about it, it goes to the heart of conscientious
               people. If you see someone driving irratically then thanks to the anti-drink
               drive campaigns you think they are a drunk not having a heart attack.
               When someone is found in a earth quake shaken building risking their lives
               people ordinarily assume thanks to MSM that they were a theif, who else
               would risk their life. But it turns out that the face of crime was a minority
               group, what a surprise! Even Police should have known better. We are taught
               to see crime everywhere and so don’t give people the benefit of the doubt.
               JK did so when he pushed the youth card that stops youth saving money
               and getting ahead.
   • the pink postman 7.2

     22 August 2011 at 4:12 pm

     This has been a sad but disgracefull business. How have we allowed this not only to happen but too have go so far.
     I would suggest to the police and all who have been involved in this sad.sad episode that they take this young fellow out to a slap up feed and to some other pleasant event.
     • aerobubble 7.2.1

       24 August 2011 at 2:08 pm

       No. I think he should be allow to store his light fixtures on JK’s lawn and get a job at
       the local recycle center with first dibbs on anything bright and sparkerly.
8. prism 8

   22 August 2011 at 11:27 am

   Hooten and Pagani having a lively discussion on radionz. Hooten thinks that the government retaining 51% ownership of our infrastructure companies means that we aren’t losing them not shooting us in the foot. Business people would tell him that a firm loses control at much less than 51%. Hooten says that overseas companies aren’t going to buy them because Mums and Dads will buy them. (Then they will be offered a higher price and sell them overseas.) The Maori consortium should be a major player if shares are allocated away from government.

   Hooten quote – “They [government companies] are not being sold.” Also “Helen Clark didn’t like big ideas.”
   • Zaphod Beeblebrox 8.1

     22 August 2011 at 1:11 pm

     Somehow he feels Air NZ, Contact, Mercury etc.. are minor and unimportant. Apparently we should be grateful they are not selling all the schools, hospitals and water supply structures (well not yet).
9. randal 9

   22 August 2011 at 12:11 pm

   I heard all that too. Hooton is a swingeing little ratty apologist for the neanderthals.
   But he also said National was going to provide 210,000 new jobs in the next two years.
   well pull the other one.
10. ianmac 10

    22 August 2011 at 12:17 pm

    And there was no need for English or Key to front up on Q&A to debate Asset Sales. “Cunliffe just tells lies and anyway why discuss such policy when it has already been laid out for months. Nothing left to discuss.” (paraphrased.)
    • ianmac 10.1

      22 August 2011 at 1:29 pm

      Oh. And Hooten’s parting shot was that “John Key wants the Labour front bench to stay the same.” Yeah right. As if the question of Phil’s leadership is not in the interests of Key.
11. John D 11

    22 August 2011 at 12:57 pm

    . Funny how ‘wealth creators’ never want to pay their fair share.

    I presume you exclude yourself from this category.

    How would you describe yourself then? Someone who takes other peoples wealth?

    [lprent: Diversion comment – to Open Mike. ]
    • RedLogix 11.1

      22 August 2011 at 1:07 pm

      If your only measure of humanity, or the value of people, is wealth JohnD … you live in a very narrow, drab world.
      • John D 11.1.1

        22 August 2011 at 1:13 pm

        … you live in a very narrow, drab world.

        I live in a very exciting world, RL. It is the nihilistic tedious beige “give me your money because I deserve it” socialist dregs like you that are drab no-hopers.
        • Akldnut 11.1.1.1

          22 August 2011 at 5:19 pm

          “It is the nihilistic tedious beige “give me your money because I deserve it” socialist dregs like you that are drab no-hopers.”

          Ahhhh…..Moral nihillists = Nact
          I don’t want your money, I pay way easily enough in tax and get my own money back and I’m not a drab no-hoper – my hope is that we can rid ourselves of the right wing hypocritcal scourge we currently have calling the shots around here. (See….I have a goal and it’s very colourful)
    • aerobubble 11.2

      22 August 2011 at 1:44 pm

      We need wealth creators, we need poorer people to strive to take risks,
      spy opportunity and cease on them. Opportunities abound, green energy,
      better use of technology to capture carbon savings, move away from
      centralized media…

      The people who have money, influence, are of course rightly afraid
      (as opposed to the poor who have no share in it). The now wealth gained
      their money by shift goal posts in growing markets, housing, shares, etc.
      They don’t have the right stuff for the new economy, since it requires
      openmindedness, tolerance, progressive thinking, balance between
      libertarian and society needs.

      And really when you thought you’d down everything right being a blind
      follower of market orthodoxy, neo-liberals most brown nosing fellow
      traveller, of course you are a bit miffed that the world call on wealth
      far exceeds the amount of value that can compensate it.

      The choice for NZ is old stale National visionless world, or seizing on
      the newer policies (that should have introduced decades ago).

      Blah humbug.
12. jackal 12

    22 August 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Destroyed by Forced Obsolescence

    I watched a program about planned/forced obsolescence called The Light Bulb Conspiracy on the weekend. It documented the terrible consequences of our modern consumerist societies, the waste produced and how that waste is currently causing environmental problems that cannot continue to be ignored…
    • Ianupnorth 12.1

      22 August 2011 at 5:12 pm

      Whilst on light bulbs http://iansescapevalve.blogspot.com/2010/09/austerity-new-black.html
      The bit near the end – America closed its last light bulb factory about a year ago; they are all now made overseas – go figure!
       
      Also, I had a friend who had his own skateboard company; when asked “what size wheels were fastest” he pointed out that once per year the big players get together, decide that years standard and then mass market accordingly. There is only a finite market for any product, therefore they need to make more ‘trendy’ new models to keep their business model working.
    • aerobubble 12.2

      24 August 2011 at 2:55 pm

      Every new niche has the same transition. A mutation means that a species can bloom from
      a abundant resource until they wear it down and shift to a more sustainable usage pattern.
      Once we have dug the pristine ores and fuels of the world up, we have to transition to
      recycling them. Its a green concept and so our elites are loathed to understand anything
      tainted by anti-God evolution. So thank the theists for the unusal harshness of any
      civilisation collapse, as per usual given the history of human societies.
      There is a reason the founding fathers pushed religion out of the constitution and government.
      No test of faith thank you should be on all US currency.
13. randal 13

    22 August 2011 at 2:41 pm

    its funny how rugged individulists thing that they did everyhting themselves and that they and only they are entitled to anything.
    so tell me John D did you make the computer you use and do you think its right pay the person who made your underwear and sneakers a pittance so that you can walk around displaying your command over resources and what a wonderful person you are..
14. ianmac 14

    22 August 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Imperatorfish has an intriguing post on the respect of John Key from within. (Hope Imperatorfish doesn’t mind.) It is what some of us suspect and wonder about the support for the installation of Brash.

    “The intriguing part was when we began talking about John Key and his popularity. My friend let slip that, while Key may well be the Second Coming in the eyes of many in the public, within caucus he is not universally loved. He’s regarded as too centrist and timid for some within caucus, and many within the party have been urging Key to take a stronger stand on privatisation and welfare reform.”

    http://www.imperatorfish.com/
    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      22 August 2011 at 4:54 pm

      Yeah the dry combustible neo-liberals in his caucus and behind the scenes think Key has been far too soft and cautious.

      And he can stand up to them because he has the money and personal networks backing him up. (Definitely one good thing about his wealth – Key will not be easy to buy off).

      Simon Power’s exit is another sign that the voices of moderation in the NAT caucus are being shut down.
    • ianmac 14.2

      22 August 2011 at 10:58 pm

      Ooops. Imperatorfish made that story up. Fooled the ever hopeful me.
15. mickysavage 15

    22 August 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Pete George is going for Parliament!  He is number 3 on United Future’s list.

    He is part of the “first wave” of candidates to be announced.  I am not sure why they think they need future waves.

    No doubt he and the coiffured ones are the best of mates and are looking forward to the worm turning.

    Figuratively. 
    • Anne 15.1

      22 August 2011 at 5:35 pm

      Well, at least they will have someone available to ‘state the obvious’ when Peter Dunne is otherwise engaged or feeling poorly.
    • lprent 15.2

      22 August 2011 at 5:44 pm

      Jeez, that was so unexpected ! (not)
    • Colonial Viper 15.3

      22 August 2011 at 5:56 pm

      *Sigh*
    • rosy 15.4

      22 August 2011 at 7:28 pm

      Well knock me down with a feather! not.

      But who is he going to vote for, seeing as he doesn’t make up his mind until election day? http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13042011/#comment-319558
      • mickysavage 15.4.1

        22 August 2011 at 8:41 pm

        Ha!

        To quote …

        I don’t make up my mind which way I’ll vote until election day. 

        Mind you if by some extraordinary chance I was a member of the United Future party I would probably feel the same … 
        • rosy 15.4.1.1

          22 August 2011 at 9:26 pm

          And I think I might take credit for picking it first? ….
          http://thestandard.org.nz/labour-exposes-planless-key/#comment-308643

          Comment on 16 March to PeteG (it wasn’t a compliment)

          “I don’t know if you were around for the election when Peter Dunne came back from the dead – you’re sounding exactly like him when he was dubbed ‘Mr Commonsense’”

          All credit to MS putting up the idea that PeteG was working for someone though 😉
          • Pete George 15.4.1.1.1

            22 August 2011 at 9:43 pm

            MS doesn’t deserve any credit, he was so far off the mark it was hilarious. Up until now I’ve been working for myself only, floating ideas, testing a things out, and having a bit of fun.

            In the end it’s hardly surprising that common sense finds common ground.
            Pragmatic politics.
            • Colonial Viper 15.4.1.1.1.1

              22 August 2011 at 9:51 pm

              Who are you implying has common sense? You? Dunne?

              Can’t be both of you, unless personal opportunism has somehow been rebranded “common sense”?
            • rosy 15.4.1.1.1.2

              22 August 2011 at 10:03 pm

              Just a bit of fun Pete. If MS didn’t speculate about who you were working for, I wouldn’t have speculated about who you sounded like. It’s worth remembering Peter Dunne labeled his ideas as ‘commonsense’ in that debate not anyone else.

              I don’t see any commonsense in them at all – pretty self-serving IMO. Anyway, I hope the campaign is a useful experience for you.
            • mickysavage 15.4.1.1.1.3

              22 August 2011 at 10:08 pm

              So Pete Squirrel when you said 

              I don’t make up my mind which way I’ll vote until election day.

              were you telling fibs? 
              • Pete George …

                22 August 2011 at 10:11 pm

                No, I haven’t even thought about voting yet. Have you already decided?
                • mickysavage …

                  22 August 2011 at 10:17 pm

                  Let’s see, you are number 3 on the United Future list and you have not thought about who you will vote for …

                  I think someone has taken over PeteG’s email account and is posting highly satirical comments from him.

                  Please can someone ring him and tell him what is happening?   
                • The Voice of Reason …

                  22 August 2011 at 10:17 pm

                  Eh? You’re the UF candidate for Dunedin North and you haven’t even made up your mind who you’re voting for?
                • McFlock …

                  22 August 2011 at 10:22 pm

                  lol
                  I seem to recall United Future had the candidate who wasn’t a citizen and the MP who wasn’t a doctor – now they have the candidate who’s not a supporter
                  • Colonial Viper …

                    22 August 2011 at 10:26 pm

                    Sounds “pragmatic” and “common sense” to me.
                • rosy …

                  22 August 2011 at 10:24 pm

                  Pete, Politics101 – own your mis-speaks. In the words of John Key (well, maybe not exactly) – I always find that if you’re in a hole it’s best to stop digging.
                  • Colonial Viper …

                    22 August 2011 at 10:27 pm

                    Wasn’t that “if you’re in a hole, don’t sell your ladder?” 😛
                    • rosy …

                      22 August 2011 at 10:37 pm

                      I heard that yesterday, Brash was it? It’s much more appropriate in this case – a certain symmetry methinks.
    • Puddleglum 15.5

      22 August 2011 at 9:15 pm

      Does this mean he has resigned as a member of the party he was trying to start?

      Was he trying to do a Don Brash style takeover of UF (i.e., giving them an ultimatum that he might resign from his current party if they offer him the leadership) but had to settle for a position on the list?
      • Pete George 15.5.1

        22 August 2011 at 9:44 pm

        It’s served it’s purpose and is no longer required as a party, but will continue as a tool.
        • The Voice of Reason 15.5.1.1

          22 August 2011 at 9:58 pm

          As, indeed, will you!
          • mickysavage 15.5.1.1.1

            22 August 2011 at 10:10 pm

            Classic!  LOLed and ROFLed at the same time!
16. Vicky32 16

    22 August 2011 at 6:02 pm

    On 3 News, Fatty McRoberts insists that Ghaddafi is dead and gone, and that John Key has got in touch with the rebels to “offer our help” to them.
    WTF????????????????????????????????????????????
    There is something so completely dodgy about it all… “The regime was defiant to the end… but they were out-gunned” 3 News says joyfully.
    How long will it take before we know what the heck’s really going on?
    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      22 August 2011 at 6:09 pm

      Look for reports of western oil corporations moving in. They’ll already be on the ground in areas which have been rebel held for the last several weeks.

      Libya has massive oil reserves and Ghaddafi’s likely mistake was not playing ball with TPTB.
      • rosy 16.1.1

        22 August 2011 at 11:31 pm

        I dunno. I think the West have any problem with Gaddafi’s dishing out of oil concessions . I suspect the ease of getting them may have delayed the west helping the rebels earlier.

        I reckon this is all about revenge for Gaddafi’s 30 years of supporting terrorism in the west (long memories, the Brits and the U.S.), they’ve made a few attempts to assasinate/depose him before this, and Sarkosy and Cameron trying to up their popularity rating at home (both were looking to take the focus off unpopular measures and recessionary fears).

        It was a big call to lose the concessions they had, and probably part of the intervention deal with the rebels for business as usual.
        • rosy 16.1.1.1

          22 August 2011 at 11:59 pm

          Al Jazeera have a 3 min summary of Gaddafi’s relationship with the west.
      • thatguynz 16.1.2

        23 August 2011 at 12:13 am

        CV, don’t forget of course the new “Central Bank” that was set up for/by the rebels months ago when NATO started their “involvement”.. OK, well the MSM publicised part of their involvement anyway..
        • Colonial Viper 16.1.2.1

          23 August 2011 at 12:23 am

          http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD14Ak02.html

          Ahhhh thanks for reminding me. That was very very odd. It suggests that bankers were influencing Rebel activities.

          I read somewhere else that the Libyan Central Bank kept a strangle hold on the money supply in the country. Foreign bankers could not get a look in.

          Bet you they will be able to now.
    • millsy 16.2

      23 August 2011 at 9:12 pm

      Ghaddafi outlived his usefulness to someone, hence the events in Tripoli. As did Saddam and Mubarak before him. Assad in Syria is about to be hung out to dry in turn.

      Bahrain and Yemen however are different stories, they are still of some use, so those dictatorships will stay, as will the al-Saud dynasty.
      • Vicky32 16.2.1

        24 August 2011 at 1:56 pm

        Bahrain and Yemen however are different stories, they are still of some use, so those dictatorships will stay, as will the al-Saud dynasty.

        Certainly!
17. Alice 17

    22 August 2011 at 10:16 pm

    dream on dickhead!

    No you didn’t.

    I know Ian.
18. Samara 18

    23 August 2011 at 12:09 am

    What are you saying? that we can’t have a relationship because we are incapable because of our differences?

    If you love me, then it an easy relationship. You just have to love me, love yourself, write brilliant independent journalism and be happy.

    There are no difficulties is there?

    We create difficulties for no reason.

    If you love me then, you have to honour that- you have to love me properly and I will love you and protect you and honour you too.

    [lprent: You really need to use the reply button and to write something relevant. Some of your comments spent some time in spam because they look like a robot wrote them as they seem rather disconnected from the conversation. ]
19. Samara 19

    23 August 2011 at 12:11 am

    So is that your happiness- I think it is.

    Peekaboo I see you!

    [lprent: You really need to use the reply button and to write something relevant. Some of your comments spent some time in spam because they look like a robot wrote them as they seem rather disconnected from the conversation. ]
20. Vicky32 20

    23 August 2011 at 6:04 pm

    Vicky,
    Does he cook?

    Divinely, yes! 🙂 We swap recipes…
    • travellerev 20.1

      23 August 2011 at 8:01 pm

      Tell him that last year I made my own version of Prosciutto di Parma (No match to the real thing of course but still pretty darn good) and Guanciale. We so miss Italy (visited Friuli amongs others and had the most divine home cooked food and home made grappa) and good food. I’m grateful my hubby loves good food and indulges my every whim when I go off on a tangent and come up with truffle omelets and other “strange” food but oh, we miss Europe and fooood! 🙁
      • Vicky32 20.1.1

        24 August 2011 at 2:05 pm

        It sounds lovely! He gives me recipes and directs me to where I can see lovely pictures… (He lives in Salento, sadly, not here, at least not at the moment..) and he’s obsessed with dieting, but he’s not fat! At least not yet… 🙂

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