Open mike 22/10/2014

122 comments on “Open mike 22/10/2014 ”

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1. phillip ure 1

   22 October 2014 at 6:45 am

   (it’s always a good idea to start yr day with a belly-laff..and this one’ll do it for ya..)

   ..parker has had his thinking cap on…

   ..and he has come up with what really ails labour..

   ..and hold onto your seats..!..it’s the colour red…

   (..and the fact that labour supporters are members of ‘a cult’..(!)..)

   ..no no..!..c’mon..!..hear him out..!

   “..Like a cult and too red – Parker on Labour..(ed:..breaking news..!..parker has discovered what labours’ problems are..it’s the colour red..(!)..(who knew..?..)

   (ed:..any reader-suggestions for a new colour from/for labour..?

   ..i reckon a pale-blue wd pretty much nail it..eh..?..

   ..and well done! to that parker ..eh.?

   ..for his keen analysis/solutions to all that ails labour..

   so..in summary:.(cont..)..”

   http://whoar.co.nz/2014/like-a-cult-and-too-red-parker-on-labour-ed-breaking-news-parker-has-discovered-what-labours-problems-are-its-the-colour-red-who-knew/
   • Barfly 1.1

     22 October 2014 at 6:53 am

     you’re up early 🙂
     • phillip ure 1.1.1

       22 October 2014 at 7:04 am

       @ barfly..

       i’m always up early..i usually start hunting/gathering stories for whoar @ about 5.00a.m..

       ..i’ve already done two editorial pieces..

       ..here’s the other..(lamenting all the brokenwood-hate..)

       http://whoar.co.nz/2014/comment-whoar-whats-with-all-the-hate-being-directed-brokenwood/

       [email protected] whoar:..what’s with all the hate being directed @ ‘brokenwood’..?

       (excerpt:..)

       ‘..and/but i have been amazed at the amount of abuse being heaped on it..

       ..it seems to be the current ‘dotcom’ for the tv reviewers…let’s all gang up on ‘brokenwood’..whoar..!

       ..and this reached a nadir on national radio yesterday..with their reviewer phil wallington…

       ..wallington got quite steamed up..and seems to have taken it personally..

       ..but you really have to wonder just how much attention wallington paid to what he reviewed..

       ..as twice in his review he claimed the series was set back in the period of the age of the leads’ old holden car..(!)

       ..he reviewed this..but he didn’t notice it is set in the present day..(!)..

       ..(they have cellphones..phil..duh..!..didya notice..?)..’..(cont..)
   • amiriterawshark 1.2

     22 October 2014 at 7:28 am

     Like, Labour is not National Lite already!!!
     SMH in disbelief.
     I hope he gets sucked into a black hole of political oblivion, or just switch on to leading ACT. That would suit his ideology I suppose.
     • les 1.2.1

       22 October 2014 at 7:30 am

       or is the reality that …National is Labour Lite?
       • Barfly 1.2.1.1

         22 October 2014 at 7:36 am

         Nope…..there mainly just a bunch of sociopaths with good camoflage
       • greywarshark 1.2.1.2

         22 October 2014 at 10:34 am

         @ lesThat was a neat thrust – didn’t see it coming. Ouch. New perspective when lying on the floor looking up your opponent’s baggy shorts!
     • miravox 1.2.2

       22 October 2014 at 7:41 am

       “Like a cult and too red “

       Jeez I’m pleased I haven’t voted yet

       Obviously Parker hasn’t any acquaintances who worship the colour blue. I had several conversations before the election with diehard National voters who constantly spoke of the importance of the colour blue *nudge, nudge, wink, wink*.
       • phillip ure 1.2.2.1

         22 October 2014 at 8:21 am

         parker..?..out of touch..?..much…?

         ..so..in his own words..he wants to become the leader of ‘a cult’..?

         ..parker has clearly not thought this one thru..

         ..and what new colour wd he like..?

         ..does he lean to a puce..?

         ..or more a turqoise..?
         • vto 1.2.2.1.1

           22 October 2014 at 8:44 am

           it is refreshing isn’t it pu
           • phillip ure 1.2.2.1.1.1

             22 October 2014 at 9:44 am

             i think ‘refresh’ cd be a good new branding-name for labour..

             ..(you cd make all sort of clean-out/emetic-references in yr advertising..)

             ..and their new colour..whatever it is..should have some bubbles in it…

             ..those parker is targeting..like ‘bubbles’..
             • greywarshark …

               22 October 2014 at 10:38 am

               phillip u
               Your mind and imagination about Labour is taking off like a jump jet.
               • phillip ure …

                 22 October 2014 at 12:39 pm

                 but nowhere near as wild and crazy as they are doing themselves..

                 ..and the basic fact is..that labour have got themselves into the position..

                 ..where the only candidate with any ministerial experience..

                 ..is wannabe cult-leader parker..

                 (and didn’t helen clark to such a good job of seeing off anyone who was a ‘threat’ during her time..eh..?

                 ..and this is what you get left with..if you do that..)
                 • Chooky …

                   22 October 2014 at 1:01 pm

                   no it was Shearer who got rid of Leanne Dalziel and Charles Chauvel
   • BM 1.3

     22 October 2014 at 7:41 am

     This is democracy in action, Phil

     Slinging mud and raising these sort of important points publicly, is what a truly democratic party does.
     • phillip ure 1.3.1

       22 October 2014 at 7:48 am

       @ bm..

       ..nah..!..this is just batshit-crazy stuff..

       ..if you made it up you’d be laffed out of the room..

       ..as he should be…
       • BM 1.3.1.1

         22 October 2014 at 7:59 am

         I disagree, I like this quote about what sort of party labour should be

         “the sort of person you’d invite round to your house for a drink or afternoon tea and feel at ease with”.

         A party where you feel comfortable enough to let one rip is the sort of party I’d want to vote for.

         Good stuff David Parker.
         • phillip ure 1.3.1.1.1

           22 October 2014 at 8:09 am

           and yr a rightwing trout..bm..

           ..so yr kiss of approval is just really ‘anti’-support..

           ..and as such worthless/meaningless..
         • Murray Rawshark 1.3.1.1.2

           22 October 2014 at 6:51 pm

           I can imagine your parties – a whole lot of slobs having a fart competition and boasting about the sexual conquests they’d have if feminism hadn’t turned women against them. Hmm, a bit like Sealord Jones and Back Pussy Tamihere mixed with Jamie Whyte Power and Simon Bridges. Yuck.
   • just saying 1.4

     22 October 2014 at 8:19 am

     You’ve gotta laugh.

     Isn’t this just the middle class answer to everything? – a fresh coat of paint and a bit of titivating. Cos everything’s still alright for them.

     I recommend something from Resene. Maybe executive navy blue.
     • Draco T Bastard 1.4.1

       22 October 2014 at 12:42 pm

       Isn’t this just the middle class answer to everything?

       Not yet but re-branding is the corporate answer to bad press.
   • odysseus 1.5

     22 October 2014 at 8:19 am

     PU – You missed out the bit where he said he didn’t want to over emphasise this point….
     • phillip ure 1.5.1

       22 October 2014 at 8:30 am

       he didn’t need to..

       ..just saying it was brainfart enough..

       ..imagine key saying national are ‘too blue’..and are members of ‘a cult’..

       ..(but he doesn’t want to ‘over-emphasise’ it..)

       ..right ho..!
       • Chooky 1.5.1.1

         22 October 2014 at 1:07 pm

         I think David Parker should start a new party…great idea!

         …and fawn should be the colour

         …and it should have a new name as well

         ….like….Wannabe Party ?

         ( no longer the Red Labour Party but the Fawn Wannabe Party !)
     • just saying 1.5.2

       22 October 2014 at 8:31 am

       lol
2. Paul 2

   22 October 2014 at 7:34 am

   Anyone hear Suzie Ferguson’s interview of Len Brown on Morning Report?
   The whole tine and content sounded like Cameron Slater provided her with the direction for the interview.
   Dirty Politics alive and well.
   And now on Morning Report.
   Disgraceful.
   • Sirenia 2.1

     22 October 2014 at 7:44 am

     Really rude interviewing. Gotcha stuff. Rather than any discussion about the need to extend rail. Why does she have to do it that way – she seems to have a particular hatred of mayors of the left because she does the same to Lianne Dalziel.
     • Paul 2.1.1

       22 October 2014 at 7:54 am

       She has really gone downhill since she got the post on MR.
       Is she told the line to take or is she just inherently a Tory tool?
     • framu 2.1.2

       22 October 2014 at 8:00 am

       “Really rude interviewing. Gotcha stuff.”

       ALL of morning reports interviews are like this – gyon only looked good on the JK/dirty pol one because of the dumb answers the PM gave – not because the interview method changed

       morning report is a sad pathetic joke
       • halfcrown 2.1.2.1

         22 October 2014 at 8:59 am

         The problem I have framu, what does one listen to or see first thing in the morning for local news
         You’ve got Gyon on Morning Report, That dick called Christy complete with simpering sidekick on TV One, and soon we will have prat Henry on Three.

         Definitely a need for a completely independent news channel.
     • phillip ure 2.1.3

       22 October 2014 at 8:01 am

       i wd like to see brown interviewed ‘hard’..on three subjects/issues..

       1)..the not small matter of auckland ratepayers having to fork out/piss down the toilet a million dollars a day..each and every day..

       ..in interest on the loans that have been wracked up by the council..

       ..cd he plse detail just what we got for that eyewatering debt..y’know..!..something concrete maybe..?

       2)..cd he explain why the council needs p.r.-trouts/spin-doctors numbering in the hundreds..?

       ..and cd he tell us just what the fuck they all do all/each day..?

       ..how do they fill all those highly-paid-for hours..?..

       (300 x 8= 2,400 hrs each working day..

       ..12,000 spin-doctor/p.r.-trout-hrs each working week..(!)

       ..that ratepayers are also forking out for..

       ..’cos..y’see..to the untrained eye..this number of the clearly un-necessary ..just points to/screams out.. a culture of excess..

       ..one that needs a serious clean/clear-out..

       ..how cd it not..?

       3..)..i remember in his first campaign how brown harvested all those soft/do-gooder votes/ers..by promising to help house the homeless of auckland..

       ,.aside from passing legislation making it easier for authorities to ‘move them on’/herd/hide them out of sight..

       ..cd he plse detail just what he has done ..if anything..to fufill that clear campaign-promise..

       ..since he has been mayor..and in the position to do just that..?
   • greywarshark 2.2

     22 October 2014 at 10:55 am

     @ Paul
     I noticed something in her interview on – Does NZ want elite universities? where she was hammering the bit about the salaries perhaps being too high as a way of bringing fees down. They do truly compete against overseas in this, unlike our many CEOs, economists and service providers to gummint who talk their own increments up and up.
     Also MPs who are two a penny, and probably should be judged for salary increases from that level!

     She let one question get away and that was the amount spent on advertising and promotion, which the speaker assured here was tiny compared to their overall budget, of which salaries amounted to 60%. I believe advertising can be around $2 million which if halved could provide $1m of discretionary money, a useful amount. And does that sum include PR also, which seems to have ballooned as a sapper of budgets in many government-related organisations.

     A good point made was that the cpi measures certain household requirements and unis have disproportionate high labour costs so really aren’t so concerned about household matters. (For instance, the rise in the price of cabbages, which was quoted one year when the CPI had risen strongly in the vegetable ‘basket’).
     • KJT 2.2.1

       22 October 2014 at 8:35 pm

       The fact is the educators and researchers are underpaid, micro managed and controlled, while a new class of University “managers” are getting the dosh.
       • Colonial Rawshark 2.2.1.1

         22 October 2014 at 8:42 pm

         Same with doctors/nurses and DHB “managers.”
       • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.2

         22 October 2014 at 10:44 pm

         And yet managers should be paid the least. They don’t produce anything and we don’t need them.
         • McFlock 2.2.1.2.1

           22 October 2014 at 11:07 pm

           some organisations might not need them.

           But hose organisations that do need them need competent ones, not managers who are merely competent at climbing the corporate ladder and empire-building.
           • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.2.1.1

             23 October 2014 at 9:17 am

             No, I’m pretty sure that there’s no organisations that need managers. They may need some administration types, and good ones at that, but not managers.
3. miravox 3

   22 October 2014 at 7:48 am

   During a debate in the House of Lords, [Lord Freud] appeared to describe the changing number of disabled people likely to receive the employment and support allowance as a “bulge of, effectively, stock”. After a furious response by the people he was talking about, this was transcribed by Hansard as “stopped”, rendering the sentence meaningless. I’ve listened to the word several times on the parliamentary video. Like others, I struggle to hear it as anything but “stock”.

   If we’re right, he is not the only person at his department who uses this term. Its website describes disabled people entering the government’s work programme for between three and six months as “3/6Mth stock”. Perhaps this makes sense when you remember that they are a source of profit for the companies running the programme. The department’s delivery plan recommends using “credit reference agency data to cleanse the stock of fraud and error”. To cleanse the stock: remember that.

   Is it reassuring or sinister that in the comments of this article by George Monbiot there are people who think this article is an over-reaction to computer language? It’s the programs that call people ‘stock’ and no problem that humans are just repeating it, they don’t really think like that, they say.
   • just saying 3.1

     22 October 2014 at 8:22 am

     Good old NZ’s ACC was criticised a few years back for referring to clients in its reports as “stock”. As in ways of reducing its stock.
     • halfcrown 3.1.1

       22 October 2014 at 8:52 am

       Another saying that has creped in is the use of the term “human resource”

       We no longer have Personnel Managers, they are Human Resource managers.

       As I told some smart arse a few years ago I am not a resource that can be harvested or disregarded when they felt fit.

       This type of language dehumanises people and I think it is done for that reason.
       • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.1.1

         22 October 2014 at 9:08 am

         Nah, it’s just new words for the same old shit. They know it’s shit, that’s why they have to keep rebranding it.
       • Te Reo Putake 3.1.1.2

         22 October 2014 at 9:38 am

         Actually, it can be seen as a sign of respect for value of workers. Without resources, businesses are nothing.
         • halfcrown 3.1.1.2.1

           22 October 2014 at 1:25 pm

           Sorry can’t agree with you on that one TRP
           I worked for one particular company for over 20 years, The owner who was an officer and a gentleman and a war hero would refer to any member of his staff as a valued member of the company. I am sure he would have been horrified if they were referred as a “human resource.”

           We know businesses need resources, but there is not the need to refer to staff as some form of stock item. to be used and abused and possibly sold off in end of year sales.

           I have just noticed, I had another silly old sod (SOS) moment
           That word creped should have been crept. Ah well, suppose you can’t win them all.
       • Rodel 3.1.1.3

         22 October 2014 at 10:13 am

         halfcrown- The best I heard in a corporate report and actually used by an HR relative of mine a few years ago was ‘human capital’ but the term doesn’t seem to have taken off.

         Shame..I’d already prepared a response (more vehement than halfcrown’s) to the first person who referred to me as human capital but I think Key & co. consider NZ workers as human capital.

         Don’t mind ‘Personnel’ as it seems to still regard employees (and employers) as persons.
4. Dont worry. Be happy 4

   22 October 2014 at 7:52 am

   So David Parker thinks that the colour red is Labour’s problem…..I would have thought it was the colour yellow.

   If not the coward’s colour perhaps the white flag of surrender?

   All our State houses are to be emptied and sold, NZ is to be plunged into a Middle East War and white collar fraud has been proven to be bleeding our society dry….and this doofus is on about colours and how passionate he can be.

   Aout what?
   • Paul 4.1

     22 October 2014 at 7:56 am

     Nothing wrong with red.
     It’s not knowing what colour you stand for that is Labour’s problem.
     They have forgotten their roots since the 1980s.
     • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 4.1.1

       22 October 2014 at 10:05 am

       It’s not knowing what colour you stand for that is Labour’s problem.

       Bingo!
       Bang on!
       Spot on!
       Jackpot!
   • framu 4.2

     22 October 2014 at 8:02 am

     parker is also showing a complete shearer level of idiocy by using such words publicly

     exactly what word are the MSM going to use to beat labour over the head with for the next few weeks? cult perhaps?

     fecking idiots
     • BM 4.2.1

       22 October 2014 at 8:04 am

       Ha Ha, democracy in action.
       • phillip ure 4.2.1.1

         22 October 2014 at 8:14 am

         yep..and one of the downsides..

         ..is that idiots like you get to have voice too..

         ..but no system is perfect..
       • framu 4.2.1.2

         22 October 2014 at 12:28 pm

         youve said it twice

         so what?
       • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.3

         22 October 2014 at 2:30 pm

         Yes, we’re quite aware that you RWNJs don’t like democracy and much prefer being told what to do by someone in power over you.
   • karol 4.3

     22 October 2014 at 8:43 am

     Meanwhile, yesterday (I guess because I was signed up as a Green Party volunteer for the last election), I got an email from Metiria Turei saying the campaign for next election starts today. It asks for donations and lays out the principles for the next election:

     We’ll be the best MPs we can be, pushing for our policies wherever we can. And we’ll re-engage young people and disenfranchised voters.

     We’re aiming to make sure every New Zealander knows we care about developing a fairer, cleaner and smarter New Zealand all of the time, not just because there’s an election.
     […]
     Each election becomes more important than the last. This National government keeps trashing our precious environment and increasing the gap between the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’.

     It’s up to us to think about our long term future and the planet’s survival. The Green Party’s future role depends on us starting the campaign for 2017 today!
     • Clemgeopin 4.3.1

       22 October 2014 at 10:35 am

       Yet I read a report that the Greens have gone cap in hand to this rogue RW government for policy concessions. What a disgrace.
       • karol 4.3.1.1

         22 October 2014 at 10:44 am

         That is pretty much what the Greens always do. their aim is to work with any party if it will further th GP agenda. The outcome last term highlighted the differences between Nats and the Greens’ policies, resulting in Nats rebuffing them.

         I expect pretty much the same this time round – the Greens therefore highlight just how radically right wing Key’s government is.
         • RedBaronCV 4.3.1.1.1

           22 October 2014 at 9:07 pm

           Used carefully that refusal can be used to embarass JK as much as possible.

           BTW what is it with Nact and others suggesting that the Greens stick only to enviroment policies. The Greens can do as they please, without Nact;’s loud controlling voice .

           At the moment the Greens go for sustainable business practices, hardly anti growth, more like a rechannel of effort, and sharing what we have equally.

           Some one a little scared perhaps?
           I’d like to see Russell/Meretai front footing some of the ‘ we have better business idea’s than you lot because you pinch them”
           • Draco T Bastard 4.3.1.1.1.1

             22 October 2014 at 10:40 pm

             BTW what is it with Nact and others suggesting that the Greens stick only to enviroment policies.

             National are trying to kill off the Greens. They know as well as I do that single issue parties haven’t got snowball’s chance in a furnace of surviving.

             A political party, to be relevant, needs to address all of a societies issues.

             Some one a little scared perhaps?

             Yep, they are.
             • KJT …

               23 October 2014 at 9:10 am

               National’s mates are delusional if they think they can load all the costs of resource depletion and climate change, while they continue with profligate lifestyles, onto the “untermensch” without the pitchforks.

               “Capitalism doesn’t work without socialism”.

               Greens are hardly extreme, with policies that would have been considered mainstream by Holyoak’s National party.;
5. Draco T Bastard 5

   22 October 2014 at 8:23 am

   Whisper Controversy Questions the Promise of True Privacy

   In the media coverage that followed, the conversation coalesced around a central idea: even if promised, is privacy truly achievable?

   Personally, I still work on the idea that nothing I do on the internet is anonymous.

   For the internet to work the computers need to track the data that is sent and received. Cannot get away from that. Even if geo-tagging is turned off the IP address will give the receivers of data packets from you a reasonable idea as to where you are. The telco will know precisely where you are.

   The question isn’t whether the data will be recorded, it will be. The question is who gets to look at it afterwards and when.
   • Draco T Bastard 5.1

     22 October 2014 at 10:08 pm

     Introducing: Flickr PARK or BIRD

     And, the Flickr Vision team has been working for the last year or so to be able to recognize more than 1000 things in images using deep convolutional neural nets. Incidentally, one of the things we’re pretty good at recognizing is birds!

     Think about it.
     • Colonial Rawshark 5.1.1

       22 October 2014 at 10:22 pm

       Indeed.
6. vto 6

   22 October 2014 at 8:47 am

   Interesting that Metiria Turei has been receiving calls from National voters urging the Greens to team up with the Nats because these Nat voters are feeling guilty about voting for Key etc.

   well blow me down with a feather ….. expect more as this term goes on …. it will be like the vote for mmp – where later on nobody admits to their voting.

   silly voters
   • BM 6.1

     22 October 2014 at 8:57 am

     What a load of bollocks.
     • vto 6.1.1

       22 October 2014 at 9:03 am

       ok, except for you BM. You will admit to voting for Key wont you.
7. ankerawshark 7

   22 October 2014 at 9:18 am

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11345976

   This today from Claire Trevett.

   NM showing some smarts getting the interview with her and the selfie. As we know selfie’s help win elections.

   Interesting NM comments about Cunliffe and what was going on in that Labour caucus!
   • Colonial Rawshark 7.1

     22 October 2014 at 9:29 am

     thanks for this!
   • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 7.2

     22 October 2014 at 10:11 am

     There is a voice of honesty and directness there, while still preserving dignity and mana.

     I appreciate that and I am looking forward to hearing her speak at the hustings.
8. karol 8

   22 October 2014 at 9:21 am

   When it comes to provisions for retirement, super etc, I suspect the default perspective many slip into, focuses more on a masculine life trajectory.

   In general, women on average earn less than men, and tend to have time out from participating in the paid workforce, in order to raise children, and tend to have smaller amounts in retirement funds or investments.

   Stuff has an article today about the trend towards a higher percentage of women working past 65 years, and the problems for women in low paid jobs.

   The percentage of women aged 65+ in the workforce has risen from 2 per cent 20 years ago to 15 per cent today. In 20 years, people aged over 65 could occupy 12 per cent of the workforce, up from 5 per cent in 2011. By then, 30 per cent of women this age will be in paid work. Only 10 per cent of women aged 65+ with no formal qualifications are employed, compared with 23 per cent of women with post-school qualifications. Women are now more educated than men in all age brackets except for those over 60.
   • Colonial Rawshark 8.1

     22 October 2014 at 9:29 am

     and not just a masculine earning trajectory, a pakeha one too. PI and Maori median income is many thousands less per annum than Pakeha.
     • karol 8.1.1

       22 October 2014 at 9:49 am

       Well, PI and Maori men, though given secondary consideration, do tend to get more focus in the debates, than do women generally.

       Yes, Pakeha men are the dominant consideration with respect to assumptions about life trajectories of older people.

       Maori and Pacific men are likely to be in a much more difficult situation as they get older, than Pakeha men, and than large numbers of Pakeha women

       But the varying situations of women are generally given even less consideration in the debates.

       Women on low pay, especially those with no formal education qualifications, and including a high proportion of Maori and Pacific women, are often in a very difficult position as they get older. They often need to keep working for the income. It’s harder for such women to find work as they get older. And on average they tend to live about 4-5 years longer than Maori or Pacific men.

       Such women probably need both super at 65 years, plus at least some part time work, because they are unlikely to have any further savings or investments.

       Also, people tend to talk of boomers as all being wealthy, owning their own homes, etc. Yet the stats in the article say that women over 60 overall have fewer formal educational qualifications than younger women.
       • Colonial Rawshark 8.1.1.1

         22 October 2014 at 9:39 pm

         Yep. Men consistently earn more than women in the same position, and also tend to get higher positions.

         NB I was referring to the big difference between PI/Maori earning power vs Pakeha earning power. My sense is that being PI or Maori instead of Pakeha is actually a bigger factor in pay inequality than gender.
         • KJT 8.1.1.1.1

           23 October 2014 at 8:38 am

           The biggest indicator of future earnings is the socio-economic status of your parents and grandparents. Which disproportionately effects Maori, and PI, and totally refutes the idea that New Zealand is a meritocracy where we have “equality of opportunity”.

           (The other big indicator, for boys and girls, is the education level of their mother)

           I wonder how much it is skewed by what I see around me. Young women in all the retail and service jobs. Young men, especially Maori, without jobs. If you are a young Maori male you would have to be very highly educated to get a job.
           Of course it means that the only young Maori males with jobs are in the higher paid ones.

           Sue Bradford’s bill advocating openness about pay would have identified whether the problem is gender, or something more complex. Then we could have argued from fact, not impressions.
           There is a whole other discussion about how keeping pay rates secret suits employers, and those who discriminate.
           With National awards a non-union shop assistant or office worker could point to what the Union members were getting, as a benchmark.
           Many of those who reckon they do not need Unions are totally unaware of how much they benefited by the foundations set in wages and conditions by Unions.
           • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1.1.1

             23 October 2014 at 9:00 am

             There is a whole other discussion about how keeping pay rates secret suits employers, and those who discriminate.

             There’s a lot of stuff that’s kept secret because of privacy that benefits the business class. Stuff that shouldn’t be kept private because it affects others thus making it public.
             • KJT …

               23 October 2014 at 9:04 am

               I think it is Norway where all tax returns are public.

               Australia is busy embarrassing tax dodging corporates at present.
   • RedBaronCV 8.2

     22 October 2014 at 9:11 pm

     They also , thanks to our judge made laws, get very little out of marriage breakdown, shoulder the bulk of the $ costs of raising the kids, as well as providing the free childcare, and meet any costs for the over 18 crowd. Women should be able to attach the super of the male parent – why not?
9. greywarshark 9

   22 October 2014 at 9:25 am

   A piece on economy and Picketty on Radionz right now Kathryn is going full on and it’s good stuff. Some opinions of worth to hear!
   • greywarshark 9.1

     22 October 2014 at 10:27 am

     A book just published by Bridget Williams here The Picketty Phenomenon- A NZ Perspective. On Radionz this morning there were three commenters Geoff Bertram, Donal Curtin, Susan Guthrie from the Morgan phenomenon!
     http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20154344

     What I have taken from this is not necessarily right but this is how it seems. The idea is to reshape the tax system to reflect fairly where wealth is being produced – from investments etc. The Morgan study on tax is taking the view that all assets should be taxed and that would include the family home. But the tax would be on the individual’s own investment, so it would be a tax on unrealised income from that.

     That may be fair on a macro level, but an income-poor person with a house shouldn’t have to sell the house so as to be able to pay for the tax on it, on top of all the other costs relating to house owning including rates, maintenance, repairs. Or sell it to someone else who can afford to pay the tax and outlay for the other costs, and rent it from them. The poor person would then change position from an asset holder to a less certain position as a renter. Which could happen.

     It is hard on the poor trying for some social upward mobility and security to have a tax on even part of their house value, that would cause their small amount of discretionary money, available for their non-necessity needs and wants, to transfer to the disposable part from which they must pay for the fixed and other costs imposed by authorities, and service providers.

     It is likely they will be stretched to pay their mortgage, which usually will be principal and interest from which banks make considerable income, which is really unearned income. Perhaps the banks should be paying the tax on the property. which is only the buyer’s by convention, and while the payments are made promptly. Under the mortgage the property can be claimed by the bank and sold for recovery in a very short time, a fortnight or month, after failure of the mortgagor to pay their required instalment owing on the required date.

     Radionz Notes.
     09:20 The Piketty Phenomenon
     The global debate on taxing wealth, sparked by economist Thomas Piketty and his proposals for improving income equality. Piketty’s thesis is contained in his bestselling book Capital in the Twenty-First Century.

     The new book, The Piketty Phenomenon collects New Zealand responses to Thomas Piketty’s argument that inherited wealth will always grow faster, on average, than earned wealth.

     Three New Zealand economists discuss Piketty’s thesis in the New Zealand context – Geoff Bertram is a research associate at the Institute for Governance and Policy Studies at Victoria University; Susan Guthrie is the co-author of the 2011 book, The Big Kahuna with Gareth Morgan which argued for significant tax and welfare reform to redistribute wealth; and Donal Curtin is the former chief economist at the BNZ and now works as a consultant.
     • KJT 9.1.1

       22 October 2014 at 9:02 pm

       A wealth or capital gains tax, can be net. After interest.

       Note that if I build a spec house, I have to pay tax on it, whereas the many people in Auckland whose house prices have risen hundreds of thousands, through no effort of theirs, pay nothing.
       • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1

         23 October 2014 at 8:25 am

         through no effort of theirs

         And that is why we get housing bubbles and why political parties have such difficulty implementing a CGT. Lazy people looking for the easy way to become rich rather than going out and working for it.
         • KJT 9.1.1.1.1

           23 October 2014 at 8:41 am

           Well you can see why. I was silly enough to start a business.

           If I had spent the same money on leveraging half a dozen rentals in Auckland I would be retired already.
           • Colonial Rawshark 9.1.1.1.1.1

             23 October 2014 at 8:54 am

             Yes its frakking annoying. Working for a living barely pays in comparison to speculating on bits of ticky tacky construction materials thrown together.
10. Chooky 10

    22 October 2014 at 9:36 am

    Youth are the new poor and the new underclass …Unless they have rich parents they will never be able to afford a house…let alone tertiary education debt and in particular postgraduate tertiary education …. both in Britain and in New Zealand… Youth have been sold out! …Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss and Prof Antal Fekete gives further background.

    http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/196944-episode-max-keiser/

    “In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert discuss Johnny Rotten challenging Russell Brand and offer the show as a platform for a debate between the two. Max notes that quantitative easing is the central bank equivalent of punk rock gobbing. They highlight several of the many market distortions similar to the insanity leading up to the 1929 market crash – including $140,000 AUD cats.

    In the second half, Max continues with his interview of Professor Antal Fekete of FeketeResearch.com about how the 1921 bond market collapse led the US Federal Reserve & Treasury conspiring to illegally introduce open market operation, leading to a situation in which profits in the bond market are risk free while profits in the commodity market are NOT risk free.
    • Colonial Rawshark 10.1

      23 October 2014 at 8:57 am

      So chuffed you go to Max and Stacey for economics classes, Chooky. These guys taught me everything I know!!! 😀
11. Clemgeopin 11

    22 October 2014 at 10:11 am

    Nanaia Mahuta: In it to win, not just to be Labour deputy leader

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11345976

    Some points from the article:

    * Yet she says she did not consult with Cunliffe before making her decision.
    Cunliffe had already given his endorsement to Andrew Little by then and did not change that after Mahuta entered. Mahuta said she had not asked him to.

    *”Cunliffe’s decision around the leadership was his. I had no influence over that.”
    However, she said he had faced “real challenges” in his year as leader and makes it clear they were from within Labour.
    “His closest supporters understood the extent of those challenges, but he didn’t let it deter him from trying to do the best job he could do to get into Government in 2014. You do what you’ve got to do. He was focussed on looking in front of him, but it is hard if leaders are having to look behind them as well.”

    * She insists she is not simply positioning for deputy. “People will be assessed on their merits and ability to contribute. If I’m not successful it’s up to the leader to decide.”

    *When told she’s a gutsy woman, she replied “got to give it a whirl.”
    Mahuta is mother to two young children responsibilities outside Parliament with Tainui. Asked whether she’ll cut some of her tribal work if she is leader, she said she is a woman “and women multitask”. “Women can do amazing things and still continue to be mums.” She said she would wind back some of the tribal work if she was leader.

    * Little known fact: She has tattoos of her children’s names on her feet.
    • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 11.1

      22 October 2014 at 10:14 am

      Well, since she has now said she is serious about being leader, and not just being deputy, then I am prepared to listen closely to what she has to say and to consider whether to rank her as #1.
      • Colonial Rawshark 11.1.1

        22 October 2014 at 10:34 pm

        I already did 🙂
12. Clemgeopin 12

    22 October 2014 at 10:23 am

    I like red. It is the colour of blood, sweat and tears……love, life and roses.
13. fisiani 13

    22 October 2014 at 10:30 am

    Chris Bishop is a future Prime Minister after Sir John retires after a record six terms.

    [lprent: I really don’t appreciate diversion trolls at the top of a post. Sure it referred to something in the post. However it had absolutely nothing to do with the actual topic of the post.

    Moved to OpenMike and be warned that the next such comment will incur a harsh ban. ]
14. Ovid 14

    22 October 2014 at 11:57 am

    Michael Cullen’s statement endorsing Grant Robertson
    • Not a PS Shark Sashimi 14.1

      22 October 2014 at 12:28 pm

      Thanks Ovid
      The last para from Sir Michael

      “Finally, there seem to be some who believe that within the Labour Party there is a small clique of Rogernomic moles who are waiting to regain control of the party. Last time round they supported David Cunliffe, this time they seem to be endorsing Andrew Little, who I am sure is far too sensible to want to be associated with such nonsense.”

      That is an interesting way of saying the ABC club is a figment of our imagination! Grant has persuaded him that the core backers of Cunliffe are accusing the ABC of being Rogernomes. That is not the case IMO. Some, like Shearer and Nash, definitely are. I believe that the majority see the ABC club as a bunch of self serving pricks with an over-baked sense of entitlement and lacking in any serious philosophical point of view.
    • ianmac 14.2

      22 October 2014 at 1:41 pm

      That helps Ovid. Michael Cullen can be trusted that his opinion is balanced. Thanks.
    • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 14.3

      22 October 2014 at 3:15 pm

      And I thought Cullen is an honourable man.
      I have known him since he was an electorate MP.
      He has been astute on many issues but, now as a retired senior statesman, having the mana of an elder within the Party, his latest piece really raises questions about him wading into the Primary, lobbying for a particular candidate and revealing the kind of judgment or wisdom that he still may have.

      Does his latest move set an example or precedent for other retired senior Parliamentarians to follow?

      Who is next in the line of august, esteemed retired Parliamentarians to step forward to lobby for his/her preferred candidate?
    • Murray Rawshark 14.4

      22 October 2014 at 7:15 pm

      Cullen has shown poor communication skills when he talks about the Rogernomic group. He makes it sound like they supported Cunliffe, whereas I thought it was the opposite.

      I think that what we need to remember is that Cunliffe was essentially a great conservative manager of the economy. He put in place a low wage, high cost economy and kept taxes slightly lower by the trick of having the state owned power companies charge very high prices. He subsidised employers and further marginalised beneficiaries with Working For Families. That he can support Robertson without mentioning the petulant anti-Cunliffe outbursts does not impress me at all.
      • Chooky 14.4.1

        22 October 2014 at 7:55 pm

        …”we need to remember is that Cunliffe was essentially a great conservative”…typo?…you mean Cullen?
        • Murray Rawshark 14.4.1.1

          22 October 2014 at 9:05 pm

          Yeah. Oops. Maybe someone can edit it for me?? Please.
15. Olwyn 15

    22 October 2014 at 1:14 pm

    Andrew Little’s letter:

    Labour is the party that was built by working Kiwis for working Kiwis. We are still that party.

    But we have to get our house in order. Because if we don’t then all we have is a bunch of good intentions gone to waste.

    We need to fix the machine. We need to bring the pieces of the Labour movement back together and focus them on winning government and making changes we need to to build a fair society.

    It’s a big task but it’s one we need to address one step at a time. First we need a caucus that communicates effectively within itself and with focus. Getting to that point will be the first job for the new Leader. Then the Leader and caucus need to reach out to the party and ensure they work well within themselves. Then we need to work alongside our affiliates.

    We must find a common cause, within the movement, and with the many, many New Zealanders who want something better for themselves and for their families.

    If we don’t find common cause as a movement we will never earn the trust of New Zealanders.

    I can do this. I have done this before.

    When I became the leader of the EPMU, one of New Zealand’s largest and most powerful unions, it was a house divided. I led the project to bring it together, to modernise it, to bring through new talent. I built a union which took our member’s issues out to the public, to the media, and won the argument again and again. We covered a lot of ground and during that time I dealt with organisations from small business to New Zealand’s biggest corporates on many different issues.

    The one unifying thing, across all of these issues, was fairness. We got fair outcomes for our members and for New Zealand workers across the board because we worked together.

    We are a party of immensely talented people. But right now we’re working as individuals, not as a collective movement.

    We must fix this. We can.

    We need to regain New Zealanders’ trust. We need them to know that when we make a promise, we can deliver. We need them to know we stand for them and their ambitions. Not just against what’s wrong but for what is right.

    As part of that we must acknowledge the trust Māori put in Labour in delivering us six of the the seven Māori seats. They are our voters and we must make good on their return to us. We must ensure that Māori are represented well within Labour and that advancing their aspirations is a cornerstone of our Party. That’s what being representative is about.

    People have asked me why I’m standing. I’m standing because I believe in Labour’s values. I believe in fairness and justice for workers, for families, for all New Zealanders. People aren’t getting a fair go right now, and I won’t tolerate a society in which the very few at the top gain at the expense of the many.

    I won’t tolerate a society in which good jobs are destroyed and replaced with insecure work, in which people in the middle are squeezed tighter and tighter by the cost of living and have no way to get ahead. A society in which those at the bottom fall off the edge of the cliff.

    These are the principles I have stood for throughout my life and they have been at the core of how I have led. They are the principles that the Labour Party embodies.

    But to stand up for those principles we must be a united Party with new ideas and a real plan to win back the trust of New Zealanders.

    I can bring the party together. I have the track record to prove it.
    • leftie 15.1

      22 October 2014 at 1:27 pm

      Thanks Olwyn.
    • Tracey 15.2

      22 October 2014 at 1:49 pm

      thanks
    • Anne 15.3

      22 October 2014 at 5:04 pm

      He speaks for me.

      Thus far, Andrew Little is saying best… all the things I’ve been thinking for many years. I’m coming more and more to the view he’s the one to lead Labour out of the wilderness. Strong, forthright, doesn’t suffer fools gladly. Just what the party needs.
      • Tracey 15.3.1

        22 October 2014 at 5:07 pm

        how do you think he can best deal with the certain meme of commie far left unionist
        • Olwyn 15.3.1.1

          22 October 2014 at 5:18 pm

          Given his years with the EPMU he will be accustomed to sticking with the job at hand and not letting others set the narrative for him. Also, they have spent a lot of their vitriol on Cunliffe – it would be hard for them to repeat the same act convincingly. I am very sad about all David Cunliffe has been forced to endure.
          • Tracey 15.3.1.1.1

            22 October 2014 at 5:20 pm

            i am not reassured that they have been deterred. little would not have had the wealth and network against him like this govt has… or the media

            i wonder if, whoever wins, they start using the word bully alot

            i wont be bullied. nzers dont like bullies. key, bennett and collins are bullies…
        • Anne 15.3.1.2

          22 October 2014 at 5:21 pm

          @ Tracey
          He’s big enough, strong enough to either ignore it or treat it with the contempt it deserves. He’s well known and been around a long time. In one way or another he has assisted thousands upon thousands of workers in the past 30 years, so I doubt that meme will have the kind of outcome his detractors will be hoping for.

          I even suspect the media will not buy into it for the simple reason some of them probably have cause to be grateful for his ‘assistance’ in days gone by.
          • Olwyn 15.3.1.2.1

            22 October 2014 at 5:23 pm

            Good point Anne! The EPMU is their union.
            • Anne 15.3.1.2.1.1

              22 October 2014 at 5:28 pm

              🙂
          • Tracey 15.3.1.2.2

            22 October 2014 at 5:27 pm

            fair comment about media. hadnt thought of that aspect. didnt cunliffe ignore their antics too?

            i was saddened to read that when murdochs papers went rabid on whitlam journos went on strike… saddened cos it was done and they are too self interested here to consider such a stance.
          • Karen 15.3.1.2.3

            22 October 2014 at 6:54 pm

            Agreed Anne. The EPMU represent journalists and so he will know most of them reasonably well in different circumstances – even those that did not join the union.
16. Tracey 16

    22 October 2014 at 1:48 pm

    john armstrong trying to be impartial, after the fact, on dirty politics. or perhaps he is giving key advice

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11346115
    • Paul 16.1

      22 October 2014 at 10:33 pm

      Most people can see through the fact this was written after the election, once Armstrong’s slavish support got the Tories in.
      I have no respect for him as a journalist.
17. karol 17

    22 October 2014 at 1:59 pm

    Question Time today: on the agenda, poverty, housing accords, Key’s communications with Slater, inquiry into Judith Collins dealings with SFO.
18. rawshark-yeshe 18

    22 October 2014 at 5:04 pm

    Another sound of silencing … the deconstruction of Maori TV now complete by forcing out Julian Wilcox following on from Carol Hirschfeld.

    What a fool the new CEO must be to deliberately provoke the loss of these skilled and genius broadcasters.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11346609
    • Karen 18.1

      22 October 2014 at 6:27 pm

      The CEO is working with board member Georgina Te Heu Heu to make Maori Television a propaganda channel for the Maori Party and the National Party. Mihi Forbes will be next on their list to be pushed out the door.
      • Murray Rawshark 18.1.1

        22 October 2014 at 7:19 pm

        I suggest a name change to Kupapa Television. That’s all it’ll be if we let them get away with it.
      • rawshark-yeshe 18.1.2

        22 October 2014 at 10:07 pm

        And what a tragedy that will be … she is delightful with her incisive brilliance. She and John Campbell are the last lights still burning through the fog.
19. None 19

    22 October 2014 at 7:51 pm

    Probably off topic. But please fix the RSS feed to have the full articles in it again. Having only the summaries makes it hard to read offline.

    [Nothing is off topic in OM. LPrent? – MS]
20. Ron 20

    22 October 2014 at 8:17 pm

    OMG Robertson is resurrecting Helen’s Pledge card.
    Not the way to move forward IMO
21. Anne 21

    22 October 2014 at 8:31 pm

    Stuff live on line (tweets) from Labour leadership meeting:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/beehive-live/10646919/Beehive-Live-And-now-to-work
    • Anne 21.1

      22 October 2014 at 8:35 pm

      Can’t edit.

      Looks like Little made the best impression. Love this from him:

      Tracy Watkins:
      Now Little takes a real swipe at the party and the caucus and has a crack at them for “flailing and faffing about” while injustice occurs.

      Hell, he’s brave. 😯
      • Colonial Rawshark 21.1.1

        22 October 2014 at 8:48 pm

        Not bad eh, let’s see if Little can hold his nerve over the next few weeks. BTW did you catch the link to my Radio 1 interview, Anne?
        • Anne 21.1.1.1

          22 October 2014 at 9:01 pm

          Yes I did CR. Great stuff. I couldn’t help wondering if a certain parliamentarian down your way heard it too. 🙂
          • Colonial Rawshark 21.1.1.1.1

            22 October 2014 at 9:07 pm

            😈
22. Rodel 22

    22 October 2014 at 10:08 pm

    Maybe Little with Cunliffe as DP. I could maybe buy that.
    I sort of like both of them.
    Don’t want to vote for the others.

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