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Open mike 23/04/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 23rd, 2022 - 60 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

60 comments on “Open mike 23/04/2022 ”

  1. Here's a video (24 mins) for Tsmithfield – Ukraine has already won the war!

    Full of hope and patriotism – but perhaps not too far off the mark.

    • Barfly 1.1

      Good stuff yes

    • Tony 1.2

      Full of hope patriotism and propaganda, very little connection to what's actually happening on the ground. Without going into detail I will cut to the chase and offer a $100 bet that Russia is and will decisively win this Special Military Operation which is to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, all bets to be held by a neutral party, so come on all you armchair experts put some money where your mouths are ..

      • Adrian Thornton 1.2.1

        @ Tony….Good on you…let's see who will put their money where their mouth is…in my experience of these Liberal Imperialists, I think you will find most of them are just so much all hot air and very little else.

        • DB Brown

          "these liberal imperialists" – wow what a try-hard. Do you have a beret and a Che t-shirt?

          • joe90

            And can't see me pants, too?

            btw, a joint statement from Russian and Ukrainian socialists points the finger

            Although the majority of the left has condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the left camp’s unity is still lacking. We would like to address those on the left who still stick to “a plague on both houses” position that views the war as an inter-imperialist war.

            It is high time the left woke up and carried out a “concrete analysis of the concrete situation” instead of reproducing worn-out frameworks from the Cold War. Overlooking Russian imperialism is a terrible mistake for the left. It is Putin, not NATO, who is waging war on Ukraine. That is why it is essential to shift our focus from Western imperialism to Putin’s aggressive imperialism, which has an ideological and political basis in addition to an economic one.


            • aj

              That is why it is essential to shift our focus from Western imperialism to Putin’s aggressive imperialism, which has an ideological and political basis in addition to an economic one.

              I think many countries would be quite surprised to find western imperialism is not aggressive and is devoid of politics and ideology.

              Modern Imperialism not only involves the expansion of multinational corporations but the spreading of the dominant nation’s political ideology. America has made no secret of the latter.

        • Adrian, regardless of the background history between the Ukraine and Russia, the facts remain that the Ukraine is a (however imperfect) democracy, while Russia is a dictatorship where opposition to the government line can be quite detrimental to your health, and Putin/Russia needlessly invaded another country and has, apparently, committed some quite horrendous and, it seems, unnecessary crimes in doing so.

          My backing is for David against Goliath!

          But I'm not crass enough to put money on human suffering, Tony.

          • Tony

            TV, I am betting on the outcome of a situation that has been the subject of the most intense propaganda programme I have ever witnessed and the truth must be searched for, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, most on here are as Adrian said full of hot air and have only MSM as their source of information, when you say "Putin needlessly invaded another Country" that shows me you have done no research into the whole story, I am happy to share independent intelligent well researched journalists ex Military strategists and academics informed views if you want to educate yourself ..

        • Tony

          Cheers Adrian T, no takers so far from here, however I have already collected 2 x $100 wagers that President Putin would be assassinated by his own staff by the 6th April and one of the punters is still so convinced it's going to happen I have given him until May the 6th and we have another $100 on it .. I have enjoyed reading your comments and laugh at the pile on when the tribe doesn't like something you say, they rush to shoot the messenger and ignore the story.

          • It's just a game, a money-making opportunity, that's all! Such a callous disregard for human suffering because it's 'over there,' far away from NZ.

            I find your attitude appalling!

  2. Molly 2

    Discussing with another commentator the lack of adequate mental health provision in NZ, and the damage done by the failure of recognising the distinct and particular needs of the transgender community, I'm reposting some links I put in a couple of days ago on Open Mike (if that's OK by the moderators).

    The update since this comment is that Norway has now also indicated that it will join the following countries in recommending quality therapy for the transgender community as their reviews of present methods of medication and surgery show net harm, instead of the expected benefits.

    We have multiple examples historically and recently of iatrogenic harm done to people from unqualified or non-scrutinised medical treatments.

    People asking for good clinical evidence for medical interventions – are often dismissed as transphobic – but really should be everyone.

    Links below are particularly pertaining to the medical response for children and young people.

    Netherlands; https://www.voorzij.nl/more-research-is-urgently-needed-into-transgender-care-for-young-people-where-does-the-large-increase-of-children-come-from/

    Finland; https://segm.org/Finland_deviates_from_WPATH_prioritizing_psychotherapy_no_surgery_for_minors

    Sweden; https://segm.org/segm-summary-sweden-prioritizes-therapy-curbs-hormones-for-gender-dysphoric-youth

    France; https://segm.org/France-cautions-regarding-puberty-blockers-and-cross-sex-hormones-for-youth

    the UK in the form of the Interim Cass Review; https://cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

    But here in NZ, we were late to the party, and it was only 2020 when the curriculum guidelines for Relationships and Sex Education were created and slapped on as an addition to the TKI – from the Ministry of Education.

    For those unaware, the TKI guidelines set out the curriculum for all primary and secondary students in NZ. They specify what learning outcomes are needed, to meet curriculum requirements. Curriculum resources can therefore be created by teachers, schools or purchased from third-party organisations.


    Guidelines can be found here on this page for both primary and secondary students as a pdf download.

    There is a lot to unpick – and justifiably critique in these documents – but the one relevant to this point can be found in both documents (Pg 30 of Yrs 1-8 guide):

    In science, ākonga can:

    • consider variations in puberty, including the role of hormone blockers

    This means that every child within the NZ education system is introduced to the idea – (and due to the diversity of curriculum that can be taught we have no idea how) – that puberty is something that can reasonably be avoided, and puberty blockers are the method to do so.

    Our Ministry of Health follows "gender affirming health care" for transgender NZers, including children. (Without getting into details, note that "gender affirming healthcare" is a pre-determined diagnosis and treatment, not equal to quality healthcare).


    Puberty blockers

    For young people where these feelings continue into puberty or emerge during puberty, particularly if associated with distress, it is important to see a health professional. Puberty blockers are a medication that can be used to halt the physical changes of an unwanted puberty.

    Blockers are a safe and fully reversible medicine that may be used from early puberty through to later adolescence to help ease distress and allow time to fully explore gender health options.

    Service providers that can help access blockers include:

    • paediatric services
    • youth health services
    • endocrinologists
    • primary health care teams.

    Late to the party, and staying for the hangover. NZ education normalises the idea of delayed puberty, while offering – without reserve – off-label medications that have no robust clinical evidence of benefit.

    In fact, the countries above, that have reviewed evidence have found that the net result is harm.

    If any of this bothers you, write to both the Ministry of Educaation and the Ministry of Health, asking them what evidential base did they use as reference for these TKI outcomes, and current medical response.

    If your concern is for high-quality appropriate care for transgender youth, then you should be bothered. The likelihood of iatrogenic harm from the current approach is high, and the evidence of that occurring is starting to accumulate and be collected.

    • Molly 2.1

      Forgot to add, Florida state, in contradiction of Federal guidelines, has also concluded after review that therapy is the best response in terms of outcomes.

      Link to Independent article below, in which the first link is the pdf issued by Florida state, that outlines their reasoning.


      As you may know, Florida has also regulated for appropriate age teaching regarding sex and education in public schools. Misnomered as "Don't Say Gay" bill.

      They had the same issue, as we have here, where schools were instructing young students that puberty blockers were a reasonable and perfectly safe option for them without clinical evidence that this is true.

    • Rosemary McDonald 2.2

      Late to the party, and staying for the hangover. Very good…okay if I borrow that?

      I see the trans thing as a (very significant) part of a wider crisis we are going through where it is demanded of us that we accept without question the pronouncements of the Establishment. However bizarre, nonsensical and downright unscientific they may be.

      We are being told by Government and the media that 'This' Is So…and anyone who doesn't 100% believe 'This', is clearly transphobic, anti-vax, scientifically illiterate etc.etc. (Insert whichever slur fits.)

      I am trying to figure out who the mentally distressed are. Are they those who go along with the bullshit (that people can change sex and the Covid vaccines are 'effective' etc. ) and the rational part of their brains are rebelling, or are they those of us who call out the bullshit when we see it… and the distress is caused by the Establishment's derision.?

      I fear this batshit crazy is going to persist for some time here in Godzone.

      (Thanks for those links btw. Many other nations are accepting that some policies and protocols might have have been in error and are making definite attempts to rectify and move forward.)

      • Molly 2.2.1

        Iatrogenic harm is something I have personal experience with, as I know you do.

        So I have a learned response to question what evidence is provided regarding outcomes and the expected harms. Providing quality information in that regard is necessary for true informed consent. Otherwise, it is a tickbox exercise only, which renders the process harmful rather than neutral, because it pretends to provide a standard of care that it doesn't.

        That doesn't mean that I expect all information to be 100% conclusive, I actually believe that to be impossible.

        I do expect it to withstand scrutiny, and be able to say "The long-term effects of this are unknown…" or "Data is unavailable in regards…".

        As soon as certainty is paired with a new medication, treatment or device my interest is piqued.

        “Late to the party, and staying for the hangover. Very good…okay if I borrow that?”

        Feel free to use whatever you want.

        (The alcoholic theme may or may not be a reflection of my younger days. )

    • Visubversa 2.3

      I am bothered about what this "Relationships" stuff is teaching Gay and Lesbian kids also. Tells us that we are "same gender" attracted – not "same sex" attracted. As a Lesbian – attracted to women (as in "adult human females" – rather than "anybody who says they are") I find this offensively homophobic. I don't see any definition of "Homosexual" in the Glossary.

      • Molly 2.3.1

        This language appropriation has consequences in regards to discussion and public discourse. If "Transwomen are Women", then the word women has been appropriated to included men. Discussion of women right's and the impact of being a woman in terms of both biological sex and the impact of that on societal expectations becomes a minefield.

        I noticed that those trying to maintain those discussions, then moved on to using female, but that also is being considered by many advocates of gender ideology to be transphobic. So, I returned to using women to describe women.

        Lesbians were at the forefront of noticing that gay support organisations were shifting language and definitions to obscure original meanings, and eradicate the understood same-sex attraction definition.

        The consequence of teaching children that attraction is gender based, and anything other is discriminatory, is that we are essentially saying that a healthy sexual orientation is bisexual – and only bisexual.

        The organisations that the Ministry of Education refers the teaching profession to for classroom resources and curriculum, if they do refer to lesbian or homosexual, define it as "same gender attracted" rather than "same sex attracted".

        There's a number of links you have to get through to get to this. But you end up with a pdf link.


        Rainbow Youth – the most visible of the support organisations for young NZers, and also referred to as a resource by the Ministry of Health – does not use the word ‘lesbian’ at all on its website, and ‘homosexual’ only appears in their submissions to select committee. (Note: I haven’t checked this for a few weeks, so may have changed).

        Planned Parenthood has moved on from issues to do with reproduction and their method of providing easy and unscrutinised access to hormones is widely shared on transitioner forums.

        It takes a while to go through all links, and some are only available to registered users.

        As is the information regarding this which seems to have been added on 13 April 2022:

        Ka huri i te kōrero: changing the conversation around pornography

        "A resource, focused on pornography within the broader context of Relationships and Sexuality Education, is for all educators, including teachers. The activities, reflective questions, and additional materials are designed to ensure flexibility for educators. Parents and whanau: You can 'browse as guest' and find the public version using the search tools…"

        Haven't had a good look around yet. The resource keeps taking a while to load.

        Regarding Relationships and Sexuality, I think the provision of guidance that allows external organisations and individuals to provide varying and ideological perspectives on sexuality, is the wrong approach.

        I would much prefer the Ministry of Education compiled and published their own curriculum to be used, so that teaching staff provided the same information to all students, and transparency was given to parents and caregivers on what that information is.

        • Molly

          Also, coming to the view that not only should biological development of childhood and puberty be covered, but the full timeline of biological sex from birth to death should be included in secondary school teaching.

          This will result in a universal understanding of some of the basic common health concerns relating to sex, as children grow into adults. Eg. issues regarding infertility, endimetriosis, breast cancer, prostate cancer, menopause etc. Parents/caregivers of the same sex can be invited to attend sessions to fill in some of the knowledge that the occasional public campaigns endeavour to fill. In particular, this may be of worth to English as a second language NZers. A colloborative effort between the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Health.

      • Molly 2.3.2

        Continuing the talk about language appropriation, the self-named Human Rights Campaign organisation, has put out a wonderful resource for those who are finding it hard to keep up with language, The Safer Sex Guide for Trans Bodies:


        Do you remember (baby) last September… when women were foolishly complaining about the cover of the Lancet with "bodies with vaginas" quote?

        Well, we've moved on from there.

        Bodies with vaginas, are not the bodies with vaginas of yesterday.

        However, the dicks of today are the same as the dicks of yesterday. devil

  3. weka 3

    Just keeps getting better and better,

    if it’s a sexual fetish, doing it publicly involves other people who haven’t consented.

    • Sabine 3.1

      I saw a clip of someone wearing a full body suit/mask in Sidney walking the streets. Creepiest shit i have ever seen. But as in Germany and Australia , coming soon to a non gendered pissoir soon enough, thanks current government. This could not have happened without them. s/

      These new woman are something. Aren't they?

      • Molly 3.1.1

        Who would have thought #NoDebate would lead to this kind of boundary pushing?

        • Visubversa

          All of us who knew that this was the latest iteration of the "men's rights" movement and that it was all about the removal of boundaries. They draped it in a rainbow flag, but it was all about men's access to women's spaces and women's bodies. Anything that women had fought for or utilised has been fetishised for their enjoyment. This includes even mass murder. After years of demanding to have access to the memorial to these women murdered because they were women, Trans Rights Activists have succeeded in invading the annual commemoration to talk about themselves. https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/tributes-to-victims-on-32nd-anniversary-of-montreal-s-polytechnique-mass-shooting-1.5694861

          • Molly

            Well. there were those of us bwho were aware that removing boundaries without discussion, may invite those for whom those boundaries were intended too keep out in, alongside the welcoming rainbow flags.

            We need to talk about Chesterton's Fence, and become as familiar with it as we did with the Overton Window.

            "There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.”

            • Poission

              Chesterton was a thinker well ahead of his time.

              • Molly

                Thanks, Poission. That seems very appropriate.

                Do you know what context this quote was made in?

                • Poission

                  Its from an essay [ sex and property] that also has analogous arguments,that relate to the forthcoming dystopian regimes that were appearing.


                  • Molly

                    Thanks for that Poission. I'm not religious myself, but follow and agree with some of the points made.

                    Interestingly, this sentence "Now it is not unnatural that this unnatural separation, between sex and fruitfulness, which even the Pagans would have thought a perversion, has been accompanied with a similar separation and perversion about the nature of the love of the land." seems to relate to a theme that's come up several times lately, regarding the removal of the material body from discussions about sex, and replacing it with more of a focus on the hedonistic and pleasurable aspects of it. As this becomes more common, further exploration of the diversity of sexual acts are introduced. Not necessarily a problem, unless it makes it's way into standard education for children and young people.

                    (Which appears to have happened in the UK, which resulted in my first experience of watching a Benjamin Boyce video, where he lightly touches on this topic after a Family Sex Show was cancelled at several venues after complaints were made about safeguarding.)

        • Sabine

          lol, all of us? 🙂

    • Visubversa 3.2

      None of us have consented. This is Alex Drummond – identifies as a woman and a lesbian, No surgery, no hormones, does not even have to shave off the beard. Stonewall sends Alex around schools to talk about diversity and inclusion and Alex tells kids that this is what a lesbian looks like.

      This is Alex Drummond. Stonewall... - IWD Brisbane Meanjin | Facebook

      • weka 3.2.1

        do you think he's AGP?

        • Sabine

          The most splendid Magdalene Berns.

          But yes, yes he is. And he clearly enjoys the power to make women feel uncomfortable around him, and imo that is why he does it.

      • Molly 3.2.2

        This continual pushing against boundaries, brings to mind the open letter sent to Madison Metropolitan School District in 2020 about their transphobic bathroom policy written by a teacher of 23 years:


        I don't want to discourage anyone from reading the full(some) complaint (that makes no mention of the risk assessments part of safeguarding) but here is the introduction – in their own words:

        "The leadership of Madison Metropolitan School District (MMSD) is currently enacting a transphobic policy. And yes, it’s about bathrooms. It’s ALWAYS about bathrooms.

        Here are the facts:

        The policy our leadership is enacting is to require that staff and students use different bathrooms. I know, that doesn’t seem transphobic on the face of it. Our leadership wants to push the idea that it’s just a clarification of existing expectations. They want us to believe that it’s not transphobic, it’s just about safety and about “listening to all stakeholders”. And if that were true, this would not be a problem."

        Now, in someone else's words, who understands the place risk assessment has in quality safeguarding policies:


        US — Madison, Wisconsin. In January 2020, a male teacher penned an open letter in Our Lives, an LGBT Madison newsletter, accusing the Madison Metropolitan School District (MMSD) of transphobia because the district encouraged adult staff to use staff washrooms, not those designated for children. Vica Steel who was previously named Mark Busenbark and currently identifies as a woman, wants to continue using the girls’ washroom directly across from the science teacher’s second-floor classroom, rather than an “all-gender” bathroom further away on the first floor.

        …An Allis parent, (whose) child reported feeling uncomfortable using a children’s bathroom while an adult staff member was also using that same bathroom, contacted MMSD central office to inquire about what district practice was regarding adults using children’s bathrooms …

        While staff members are able to use adult washrooms in the school “based on the gender with which they identify”, LeMonds indicated it is a best practice for adults to use a different bathroom than students “for safety purposes”.


        • Visubversa

          Who would possibly not want this person in the same bathroom as their 13yo daughter? This is Vica Steel.

          Male Teacher, Now 'Transgender', Demands Access to Washroom for Elementary  School Girls - Women Are Human

  4. Dennis Frank 4

    Kim Hill interviewed Bill Browder this morning. He's living in seclusion for the same reason as Salman Rushdie (perpetual threat of assassination and/or kidnapping) but has to protect his wife & family simultaneously too.

    Surprisingly, I managed the 48 mins without a moment of boredom. Most unusual. I liked his verbal style: fast, precise, low-key – yet always clear and direct.

    They deployed useful-idiot theory for the Trump/Putin negotiations (in respect to the 2016 campaign meeting & offer of dirt on Hillary). Putin wanted Trump to ditch the Magnitsky Act. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act]

    Most interesting bit was his explanation for why the goons who beat Magnitsky to death in prison put on the official form that they had used rubber truncheons on him: same as for Nazi goons under Himmler (to protect themselves against higher goons) – they had to create a bureaucratic record that they'd followed their orders properly.


    • I found him interesting but too glib Dennis.

      For instance he said "Putin got 50%" of the Russian oligarchs billions for protecting them. How does he know this?

      He also came across as money hungry to a point where, by the end, I was thinking he was getting his just deserts having to live his life as though he and his family were under threat of Russian violence at all times. When you dance with the devil…..

  5. Temp ORary 5

    This is simply despicable:

    A Mount Maunganui museum dedicated to the military history of white minority-ruled Rhodesia that’s been likened to “celebrating the holocaust” is being used as a venue for Anzac commemorations this weekend…

    A spokesperson for the government’s Department of Internal Affairs said the department had not received any complaints relating to the Rhodesian Services Association’s eligibility for registration under the Charities Act 2005.

    However a letter sighted by Stuff dated 2010 from the Charities Commission refers to a complaint lodged with the commission regarding the charitable status of the Rhodesian Services Association, leading the commission to investigate “whether the Association was engaging in some form of public advocacy, advocating racial discrimination, or extolling the past racially based Rhodesian regime.”.


    Hugh Bomford, spokesperson for the Lion and Tusk museum, run by the Rhodesian Services Association… said the museum is funded through membership, trading, donation and fundraising.

    There have been recent concerns about white supremacy activity in Tauranga following the distribution of leaflets throughout the city.

    Police said that they are aware of this and while they understand it may be offensive, it does not constitute a criminal offence.

    It seems likely that the DIA will soon be getting a few complaints about the Rhodesian Services Association (including their cooption of the RSA TLA on ANZAC Day). From myself and my whanau if no one else.

    I am put in mind of this NRT piece from yesterday:

    The BORA's affirmation of the right to freedom of expression means that it is phenomenally difficult to prosecute for inciting racial disharmony, and this is only the second-ever case. But the penalty for that is only three months, so the bulk of his sentence (12 months' home detention and 300 hours of community work) was due to knowingly making an objectionable publication. Which I guess shows the opponents of a specific hate speech law the existing alternative: rather than risking three months in jail, they can risk 14 years, and be tainted by an offence normally reserved for child pornographers.


      • Temp ORary 5.1.1

        Thanks for the links Joe90. I don't spend much time on Twitter so wouldn't have thought of looking there myself. Though admittedly I do glance at Te Taipo and the disinformation project every so often since the Wellington occupation(/ inept coup attempt).

        The second link didn't take me to a specific article, more a Google search in which the most relevant piece was about Don Brash in 2017. I didn't read it in full. Was that what you intended to link to?

        • joe90

          Just noting that Scott's been writing about Rhodesians in NZ and their connections since 2009.

    • Molly 5.2

      That's an informative Stuff article.

      Seem's like the Charities Commission should have a more robust system of dealing with complaints, and publishing decisions. In this era of technology, it should be a fundamental automatic process.

      Scott Hamilton, always seems to be ahead of the ball in these situations.

      I hope that those that do complain, are responded to in detail and that the Charities Commission not only publishes the complaints but the decision making process that leads to their response.

      I waver between the balance between knowing where such possibilities for racial extremism are, against sending them underground or onto the dark net where they are fully hidden.

      I don't support the use of the venue for Anzac though, seems a bad judgement call on the part of the Ministry of Defence.

  6. Ad 6

    It's been great fun seeing Keir Starmer do the slow roast of Boris Johnson.

    Even if her survives the Parliamentary inquiry he will have holed the Conservatives below the waterline. Great to see Starmer finally harvesting the results of all those carefully set Parliamentary questions.

    (14) Labour Produced Strategic Masterstroke in Trapping Boris Johnson – YouTube

  7. aj 7

    President Xi Jinping speaks wise words at the Boao Forum for Asia Annual Conference 2022, a thread outlining 10 major observations & messages from the speech. Actions mean more, but I live in hope.

    He requests the international community to cooperate to keep global peace & warns against unilateralism, Cold War mentality & hegemonic tendencies & ambitions of the old order:

    “We need to work together to maintain peace and stability in the world….The Cold War mentality

    would only wreck the global peace framework, hegemonism and power politics would only endanger world peace, and bloc confrontation would only exacerbate security challenges in the 21st century.

    “Keep walking and one will not be daunted by a thousand miles; make constant efforts and one will not be intimidated by a thousand tasks.”


  8. pat 8

    What Government services are currently underfunded?

  9. joe90 9

    IDF gotta IDF.

    Al-Aqsa is Islam's third-holiest site, and the most sacred site in Judaism where it is known as the Temple Mount. Police fired tear gas and rubber-tipped bullets at stone-throwing Palestinian youths, and later used drones to spray tear gas from the air, an AFP photographer said.

    After midday prayers, some worshippers chanted "incitement" and tried to damage a security post, police said. More than 200 people, mostly Palestinians, have been hurt in clashes in and around Al-Aqsa in the past week. Palestinians have been outraged by massive Israeli police deployment and repeated visits by Jews to the holy site.

    By long-standing convention, Jews are allowed to visit under certain conditions but are not allowed to pray there. Palestinian worshipper Alaa al-Haddad said Israel was restricting access to Al-Aqsa, and that this had created "tensions that lead to clashes", with hundreds of people arrested in recent days."It's all because the occupation forces are regularly storming the holy Al-Aqsa mosque," Haddad said.


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