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Open Mike 23/06/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 23rd, 2018 - 63 comments
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63 comments on “Open Mike 23/06/2018”

  1. saveNZ 2

    I guess Jacinda’s baby will not get to swim in the oceans around her house as by the time she grows up that will not be possible by the look of things.

    “Opposition grows to pumping sewage into Waitemata Harbour near the harbour bridge”


    When Water care stared charging water separately from the Auckland rates it was supposed to transform Auckland’s water into 21 century with no sewerage going into the sea.

    Instead Water care via Auckland council took the money, and have not separated the pipes and applying to keep polluting. Even if they do separate the pipes, there is growing pollution from the diesel and pollution of the wastewater due to the very poor planning in every area from Auckland council and the government.

    In spite of all the growing problems local and central government stubbornly refuse to acknowledge they did this to make a short term buck out of immigration and leave the mess to the residents to clean up (or price them out as it seems to be turning out).

    Like transport it is not just money that is needed. Watercare needs to be de corporatised into an organisation that answers to the people, has a clear mandate to stop pollution and does not have any salaries over $300k.

    Less managers and a smaller more expert team to do the job instead of send out glossy pamphlets every month saying what a great job they do and asking for more money from ratepayers.


    • Wayne 2.1

      I live right beside the sea in Ngataringa Bay and have done so for the last 17 years. I swim October through to May.

      The water quality has been steadying improving during that time. The old Devonport tip (long since closed) does not leach out nearly as much as in the past. Watercare has spent a lot of money in the last 15 years upgrading pipes, so sewerage overflows basically no longer happen.

      I certainly recall water quality being much worse than it is now at Narrow Neck and at Cheltenham.

      Sure Watercare could do better, but so far they are doing a pretty good job. Probably the best of all the Council Controlled Organisations. It certainly does not need major reform.

      Jacinda’s baby will still be swimming in the sea around Auckland well into her old age.

      • marty mars 2.1.1

        Lol my confidence is not increased based on those anecdotal musings.

        I wonder how many beaches will close next summer in Auckland due to pollution – 10? 16? 30? Who knows but it ain’t going to be zero.

        • Andre

          Now, now, marty. Just because he’s a Nat doesn’t mean Wayne is always wrong.

          The Manukau harbour has massively improved in the 19 years I’ve been in Titirangi. Problems now generally occur after heavy rainfall in areas where the sewage infrastructure is newish. Which leads me to suspect the coliforms are probably from pets, rather than inadequate infrastructure.

          • Ad

            Plenty of Do Not Swim signs around the Titirangi area still.

            Some of the pipe and pumping stations that they put in place in the early 1980s seem to be wearing out.

            There’s no doubt Watercare has done amazing and positive things to the Manukau by brining the entire treatment system onshore over the past 15 years.

            But Piha, Muriwai, Wood Bay, Blockhouse Bay and others are still pretty bad.

          • marty mars

            Good the poos and weese going in has reduced. Localised sea water quality may indeed be slightly better, once the plastic is ignored, I spose.

      • SaveNZ 2.1.2

        @Wayne, we can’t all afford to live in Devonport, according to the article, “Auckland Council has red alerts in place at more than 60 of the city’s 84 beaches; red alert means a “moderate to high risk of infection” from swimming.”

        I don’t see that as a good omen for Jacinda’s baby or anyone elses kids either, look at the damage they are doing down Long Bay with their developments, and they are thinking of pumping sewerage into St Mary’s Bay, when Cox is bay is permanently polluted!

      • AB 2.1.3

        Excellent – Wayne has just reported in from his dacha on the Black Sea that all is well. Fantastic – I am so relieved.

    • Ad 2.2

      Watercare don’t deal with stormwater – Council’s Healthy Waters Department does that. It’s the storm water overflows at peak mixed with old sewer lines that Auckland Council failed to separate that do the most damage.

      Watercare are separating most of this in the isthmus through the Central Interceptor project. That $900m+ job is preparing its bidders now.

      • John Shears 2.2.1

        Wayne & Ad overlook the fact that stormwater is not the polluter, wastewater is, and Watercare deceitfully opted out of the 3 waters concept when the greater Auckland City was formed they have been talking about a new Western interceptor for years and now they are involved with ACC in suggesting that money should be spent to ensure that wastewater can be discharged into the harbour above the bridge.
        Watercare needs to be completely restructured it it no longer fit for purpose as far as handling wastewater is concerned except that they are keeping the North Shore Rosedale plant at the high standard that it had been brought up to before they acquired it from NSCC in the amalgamation ion process after many years of neglect.

    • Jenny 2.3

      23 June 2018 at 9:10 am
      I guess Jacinda’s baby will not get to swim in the oceans around her house as by the time she grows up that will not be possible by the look of things.

      With rising sea levels my guess is Jacinda’s baby may get to swim in the oceans around her house, whether she wants it or not.

  2. soddenleaf 3

    Trump targeting of women and children, as criminals, rapists and murderers is so so sad. Dumb. Fake News.

  3. saveNZ 4

    More disappointment for affordable homes. Funny how when business and richer influential individuals consult they are listened too, but when the public consults they are ignored and called Nimby’s.

    So first we had the Super city under the Natz, getting ready the assets for privatisation, next we had the unitary plan to sky rise the price of land and make instant profits out of thin air under the Natz, but now we have Labour believing the lie that it is the land that needs to be made affordable, and it is ok for NZ to open our land to the world to be speculated by foreign buyers driving up the prices?

    Apparently that was so the ‘neoliberal mantra says’ foreigners put money in to build houses on the land.

    But now backtrack, foreign buyers are actually now able to buy and speculate on the apartments as well as the land?

    Surely we are worse off now than before because we just put another million low wage workers into Auckland to help keep the Ponzi housing and transport going and expect the residents to pay for it?????

    “The select committee report, released today, recommends:

    – allowing pre-selling up to 60 per cent of units in big housing projects to foreigners, without them having to on-sell once construction is finished, as long as the investors don’t live in the properties.

    – Waiving the requirement to on-sell immediately for investors in big developments intended to be rented out or sold under a rent-to-buy model.

    – Allowing all resident visa holders, not just those with permanent residents visas, to buy land without Overseas Investment Office consent.

    – Putting the burden of proof on purchasers, not lawyers, to make sure they meet the residency criteria.

    – Allowing foreigners to invest in major hotel developments as long as they lease the rooms they buy back to the hotel.”


    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      Yep, bloody stupid.

      We need an outright ban on offshore ownership. Not excuses for them to keep pricing NZers out of living in NZ.

    • Bearded Git 4.2

      When David Parker is mates with John Darby you have to expect this kind of fudged policy.

      • veutoviper 4.2.1

        You seem to be well out of date there with that remark/innuendo BG.

        Go have a look at the threads under 8 (not 8 itself but further down the thread) and 11 in Open Mike yesterday. Parker made it very clear on Thursday in the House, and on RNZ Morning Report yesterday morning that he is not mates with Darby and has hardly seen him for many years.

        As Anne remarked at 8.2.2 Parker “was obviously very angry and at one point politely advised Espiner that some of the claims he was making were bordering on defamation.”

        Hooton’s original article in the Herald has apparently also disappeared off the website …

  4. saveNZ 5

    Love how the ‘poor’ lawyers can’t possibly be held accountable for residency criteria. Happy to take the money but not liable for any frauds I see.

    It’s like John Key’s back in town.

  5. saveNZ 6

    How about electric buses and trucks being mandatory to reduce pollution, get the rail going to and out of the centre of Auckland, remove ports of Auckland somewhere else so freight is not going there and reducing congestion and putting the Vancouver tax on foreign sales ASAP!

    Oh and actually have a 15 year period before giving out NZ permanent residency and citizenship like lollies while saying we can’t afford to pay super or care properly for our our residents hospital and educations and throwing up our arms and thinking a tax will stop the pollution of the oceans when they are pumping in more sewage and wastewater and forgetting about climate change and increased flooding in their haste to create more ‘tenants in our own country’ under a Labour government and NZ First government and Green government that campaigned on stopping foreign speculation!

    Vancouver slaps 15% tax on foreign house buyers in effort to cool market

    • AsleepWhileWalking 6.1

      People need to reduce their travel and rely mainly on local produce.

      Electric isn’t going to cut it.

    • solkta 6.2

      giving out NZ permanent residency and citizenship like lollies while saying we can’t afford to pay super

      One of the big benefits of immigration is that it makes our superannuation more affordable. New Zealand has a demographic bubble which will mean super costs will continue to increase for the next couple of decades. Increasing the ‘working age’ population and enlarging the economy means more tax revenue to fund our over 65 UBI.

      • saveNZ 6.2.1

        Clearly not working when the migrants can bring their aged relatives over and they have full health benefits straight away and super within 10 years. So the average age of retirement is 65 and the average age of life is now over 80 years. Plus the last 3 years cost the most.

        “Mr Woodhouse said another factor in closing the parent category was the strain being put on the health system.

        “Information that I’ve been given about the burden … on the health services that are considerably higher than other people of that age who are eligible for New Zealand public health services.”

        New Zealand First leader Winston Peters has been a relentless critic of the parent category.

        He said after years of denying there was a problem, the government was now finally admitting something was wrong.

        “You’ve got 87,000 people now who have arrived in the last 15 years, who are able to access our health service immediately and our superannuation within ten years, which other country in the world allows that?

        “Well the answer is none – just New Zealand.”



        Is it fair to allow migrants to bring aged relatives over to access our health care, while Kiwis who worked for years and paid taxes wait months and years for health access to operations and then have to compete on the waiting lists for more and more people???

        Likewise they have already found the migrant parents cost far more in health care than equivalent aged Kiwis according to the links above.

        Even in OZ they wait 15 years but it is not long enough when the burden is on the young who are getting poorer and poorer in their own countries.


        • Draco T Bastard

          Shouldn’t be allowed to bring in the parents at all. Immigration should probably be banned for anyone over the age of 30.

          • saveNZ

            Yep, they should just have 2 year visas for visiting when the parents have to have private health insurance and pay a fee to cover all the infrastructure they will use that the exisiting tax payers pay for and certainly not buy up housing!

            I’m not against migrant parents visiting their kids and grandkids, but the present system is having a laugh, and grossly unfair on existing residents who are told pay more, get less while somehow someone’s aged parent can rock up, pay no taxes, get a gold card with free transport, super, free medical and their 20yo kids are on $20 p/h and qualify for WFF and free education, including one year free tertiary while the existing tax payers are paying of $50k student loans from the 1990’s and going to food banks in Auckland while they are both working.

            It’s not a fair deal for those that have been taxed to death already from neoliberalism, when the government is happy to give hand outs to new comers who in many cases are far wealthier than the local tax payers.

            In addition recent migrants, having babies which is only to be expected for 20 and 30 year olds so they ain’t working and paying taxes for that long in NZ and will never cover the taxes if they are on low wages, so maybe that is why our productivity is flat and we need to borrow more government and council money to pay for bad decisions while our public service are groaning under the load?

            Certain people like Solka seem to think that’s fair on existing people to help new mostly richer people get even richer while poorer people pay for their care as those on $90k apparently are keen to abandon and not even bother looking after their own kin when NZ taxpayers will do if for them. It’s insane!

      • Incognito 6.2.2

        Can you please walk me through your argument?

        I believe our economy has been growing roughly at the same rate as net immigration and our productivity is almost flat.

        Not all immigrants are ‘workers’ and certainly not all will contribute to diversifying the economy and make it more innovative and sustained & resilient to future shocks (of any kind).

      • Draco T Bastard 6.2.3

        One of the big benefits of immigration is that it makes our superannuation more affordable.

        No it doesn’t.

        Increasing the ‘working age’ population and enlarging the economy means more tax revenue to fund our over 65 UBI.

        The government doesn’t actually need tax revenue. That’s a lie by the private sector that has helped them shift the power from the people into the hands of the rich.

        The fact that you’re repeating that lie shows how you don’t understand why the demographic bulge is a problem and why immigration won’t fix it.

        The demographic bulge is a physical problem. With so many leaving the workforce there won’t be enough people working to support both themselves, the retired and the bludging rich.

        Immigration won’t fix that problem because it will cause other problems itself. Some will be social but mostly they’ll be economic (real economics not the delusional stuff based around money) and those will be to do with over-population. The government is trying to increase population growth to meet those retiring but to do that will push us well sustainability.

        The government and NZ really would be better off spending huge amounts developing 3D printing factories and our extracting and processing our own resources. The problem the government has with that is that it will destroy jobs and cause an even faster collapse of our society as all the wealth created would simply go to the rich even fatser.

      • Bill 6.2.4

        Unless a parent has an annual income of more than $60 000, and a spare $1 million that they’ll invest in NZ over four years and another $500 000 to live on, then they ain’t getting in.

        And even satisfying the above only allows for an application for permanent residence after four years. During those four years it would appear that medical expenses must be covered by the patient.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.3

      Permanent residency needs to be removed. You’re either a citizen or your out.

      • marty mars 6.3.1

        That would affect a lot of people – do you know the numbers?

      • Bill 6.3.2

        I’m a citizen DTB. Just not a recognised New Zealand citizen.

        Now, what’s your problem?

        You’re concerned or agitated that I cannot hold a NZ passport, stand for public office, represent NZ in international sport…or are you in a fluster about the fact that I can be deported?

        Oh. And as a permanent resident, bar any dependent children I may have, there is no easy pathway available for me to bring any family members into the country.

        The stuff your railing against (it seems) is the benefits that accrue more readily to people accepted as and recognised as New Zealand citizens. That being the case, I fully expect the next sentence your piles mouth out for you to type will be calling for a ban on citizenship, yes?

        • saveNZ

          Bill, when the right comes from all this lazy immigration, like Windrush they will be deporting the most vulnerable, after cutting all the benefits, and it will be people like you for the chop, while those who came here 5 years ago and got so much for free and have the money, will be sitting pretty.

          That is the lesson from Windrush. They go after the venerable who don’t have access to lawyers, not those who came here last.

          So migrants who think that defending lazy immigration is benefiting them, should check their paperwork is in order, because Auckland is ground zero and there’s been a massive change in demographic and they keep putting more taxes in to help the rich who don’t live here, while taxing the poor and existing residents.

          Those coming in are voting for National and rights for the rich. Aka look at the recommendations from the select committee to give more rights to foreign investors in property and let bad lawyers off the hook.

          As for not getting your parents in, you just don’t know the right immigration lawyers as 87,000 have arrived in the last 15 years, who are able to access our health service immediately and our superannuation within ten years.

          Possibly that is why the lawyers apparently are trying not be responsible for their residency decisions in the select committees…

          • Bill

            See my comment at 2.6.4. (or better, do some reading on immigration criteria before running off at the mouth)

            • saveNZ

              “Unless a parent has an annual income of more than $60 000, and a spare $1 million that they’ll invest in NZ over four years and another $500 000 to live on, then they ain’t getting in.”

              Your comment makes it even worse that the poor long term resident Kiwi’s are expected to support new rich aged coming into NZ.

              One million doesn’t even buy you much of a house in Auckland, and super and health is not means tested…so you get your 500k to live on while our laws allow new rich people to then get extremely generous benefits including free transport that beneficiaries who are disabled or very poor don’t get.

              Surely the 1.5 million better spent of making the new aged migrant pay their own way via super and health care not expect the Kiwis to chip in for their affluent lifestyle? Apparently there are aged care issues as well as hospital issues, and many Kiwis who paid many taxes are on waiting lists for health care, but money apparently can just wave new people through.

              Of course as well as all that, you can just convert that money into a trust once you gain citizenship and viola, you have no income!

      • saveNZ 6.3.3

        +1 Draco. And you have to live here Permanently to achieve citizenship with provable taxes that are positive not negative and prove good character for 20 years! Unless you are a refugee. We are all living longer, yet our laws seem to think we all die at 70 years!

        If we had a country without poor people it would be all well and good to be throwing money to the world’s rich and opportunistic migrants.

        Sadly we have people living in cars and going to food banks and are shutting down our university libraries to save money and have mouldy hospitals. I’m not sure how the government can justify constant immigration hand outs to the world’s rich and working poor, until we can get our existing citizens problems under control

  6. AsleepWhileWalking 7

    I think this tits thing has legs.

    There is a test you can get when replacing mercury fillings called a serum compatibly test. This shows what material your system will react to vs what will be inert so when your fillings are replaced you know the new filling isn’t harming you. Its different for everyone and there are apparently over a thousand(!?) different types of materials that can be used in dentistry.

    Q: Why would it not be the same for other foreign materials placed in the body?


    • marty mars 7.1


    • Brigid 7.2

      “They were so cheap, they were only $3500, so I thought why not.”
      “She spent the $15,000 she had saved to go travelling on the procedure.
      “I had to choose my health or my happiness to go travelling.””

      I cannot believe how somebody so moronic still breathes.
      Well of course she nearly didn’t
      What a fucking stupid brainless person

    • Incognito 7.3

      “He said ‘it’s your body, your health and I understand it because I’ve had so many girls come in recently with the same thing’.” [my bold]

      Make of it what you like …

      • AsleepWhileWalking 7.3.1


        What do you call the person who graduates bottom of the class in med school?

  7. David Mac 8

    I used to having fucking Tourettes, now I just swear.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • DH 8.1

      It’s no laughing matter. The guy I met was incredibly brave to keep going out in public. He faced his fears. I doubt I could have done it.

      We are a community here, albeit an unusual one to be sure, and while it’s common for people to have the odd spat we all need to show a little more understanding and tolerance for each other IMO.

      • David Mac 8.1.1

        DH, I didn’t read the sign on the door, I was bantering under the belief I was in Open Mike.

        Yes, I’m aware Tourettes is no joke, nor should it be taboo. Yeah me too, I’d turn hermit.

        I agree DH, I think reasoned contrasting views is what makes this blog vibrant and we should be fostering an environment that induces more of it.

        I wonder if the Germans are more open to immigration. The right leaning practical thinking executives at BMW realising they’re going to more retirement parties than apprentice inductions.

  8. David Mac 9

    For those that haven’t seen it and dig the Fab Four, car karaoke with Paul McCartney is a bit of a hoot.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  9. adam 10

    Fantastic Negrito, Love this video. Rock and Roll baby with a great chorus!

  10. chris73 11



    ‘Labour commissioned Wellington lawyer Maria Berryman in March to investigate how it handled the affair, its general culture and any other incidents of sexual harassment or abuse within the party. She had three months to report back and her findings were not to be made public but go to key party leaders.’

    I’m sure its a complete coincidence that its been three months and Andrew Kirton is leaving, not that we’ll know since the report isn’t being made public

  11. Ad 12

    Rest in peace Koro Wetere.

    All the way from Kirk to Lange, with a haul of policy wins and the great Tainui settlement.

    A life well lived, in the service of others.

  12. patricia bremner 13

    Pleased to see that addiction support workers and mental health workers are getting equity. $3 to $5 dollars an hour back paid to July 1 2017. Let’s do this!!

  13. Bewildered 14

    Great win for Abs and test debutants

    • CHCOff 14.1

      ABs wins havnt been great for a long time and won’t be until they are representative of NZ community again. Winnng by any means #1 is at the detriment to NZ, sport is to bring together, not isolate.

      Neo-liberal nitwittedness elitism pee poor excuse for a ruling class!

  14. eco maori 15

    Q*A Michael Barnett is full of national propa-ganda pushing the doom and gloom to try and make labour look bad . Business have been Creaming it with all the business friendly changes to taxes and labour laws under national . The skill shortage well we know who to blame for that mess national did not invest in training tangata there cheap solution to this was to import foreign skilled workers and who gives a toss about the common tangata whom these foreign workers put on the couch.
    Its not just multi national company’s that pay a low wage its a lot of big business who do this don’t be afraid of a wage rise take it as a challange to lift your productivity its not rocket science .The low wage society is the reason OUR productivity is low on the OECD list why bother to try and gain productivity efficiencys when one can just hire cheap labour efficient productivity is what we need to do to help save our environment No. Yes there is only one person in trumps world and thats himself he is trying to spread his dumb ass views around Papatuanuku Many thanks to the European Union and OUR Labour lead coalition goverment. ka kite ano P.S in the near future we are going to have a lot of Pacific Island environmental refugees and we need to plan for that

  15. eco maori 16

    thehui the meth testing was a sham and look whom that bad behavior by the national government and there meth testing m8s affected mostly Maori there views on this is who cares . ka kite ano P.S $100 million flushed into the wealthy m8s of the national party’s pockets

  16. eco maori 17

    Newshub Nation there you go the justices system is a big sham when the police can not get enough evidence to set up there fall person for a unsolved crime they bribe and manufacture evidence Lisa Arthur Taylor is letting everyone know how corrupt the jail house witness police bribed witnesses are the courts should be baned from using this bull—- evedince. tangata are just sheep in there reality . Ana to kai
    Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 17.1

      Newshub did you know that tangata classes for learning te reo are in high demarned now ka pai Maori culture is a beautiful caring historic respectful culture .
      Germany has won there game in the Russian football World cup ka pai.
      Loyd that will be great if Peter Burling won the Volvo Ocean race around Papatuanuku I say you will have a couple of refreshments tonight to celebrate the team and Peters win Loyd and that will be the triple wins for Peter Burling .
      Ka kite ano P.S I miss my days working on Tangaroa watching the wild life we have to get this poisons stuff plastic out of OUR environment asap

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  • Speech to Labour Party Congress 2020
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