Open mike 23/07/2021

113 comments on “Open mike 23/07/2021 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   23 July 2021 at 6:40 am

   "Meridian and Contact say they are seriously considering building a plant which would convert about 12 per cent of the country’s total electricity generation into green hydrogen. The plant would be based in Southland as an alternative user of the energy the Tiwai aluminium smelter uses, should it close as scheduled at the end of 2024."

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/125828691/the-hydrogen-problem-how-much-electricity-will-make-it-worthwhile

   "Meridian and Contact’s first feasibility report suggests New Zealand is well placed to be a leading green hydrogen producer; its high proportion of renewable electricity meaning it could export as well as meeting domestic needs."

   I suspect the devil is in the detail of how exactly hydrogen would be exported – is tank tech sufficiently secure yet? I wonder if export in liquid form would be feasible.

   "On the export front, the Government already has agreements of co-operation with Japan and Singapore to research production and explore New Zealand’s export potential. A letter of intent was also signed some years ago between a New Zealand private consortium and several South Korean companies to explore hydrogen exporting, although MBIE says it has yet to progress. There is also the research alliance with Germany, which has already committed to moving to green hydrogen."

   "According to the report, the investment in a green hydrogen economy could generate one-time benefits of $0.6 billion to $0.8 billion, and thousands of jobs, with ongoing benefits of $350 million to $450m per annum and hundreds of jobs. Some of those benefits might include attracting high tech talent and money from large sustainable investment funds, or chemical, fertiliser and other industries set up alongside the plant… Standards New Zealand has convened a hydrogen standards advisory group, and the Government will begin developing a hydrogen roadmap this year to examine the issue in more detail."
   • weka 1.1

     23 July 2021 at 11:05 am

     oh, so the Tiwai power isn't going to EVs now?
     • Dennis Frank 1.1.1

       23 July 2021 at 11:09 am

       Probably depends on the business case, eh? Or, to be more precise, the various competing business cases involved. So cabinet will have a plethora of input (refined by relevant ministers before it gets tabled) to eventually consider…
       • weka 1.1.1.1

         23 July 2021 at 11:20 am

         renewable, climate-saving power generation as a capitalist lottery rather than say a strategic asset core to how we transition and get through the next century.
         • Dennis Frank 1.1.1.1.1

           23 July 2021 at 11:41 am

           Well, it is how the cabinet is likely to decide. Jacinda being High Priestess of Neoliberalism – eventually to go down in history as St Jacinda the Neoliberal and featuring as such in the publications of next-century historians.

           If Labour were to ditch muddle thro the middle and form a govt with the Greens with formal sustainability/resilience focus, your scenario would apply.
         • AB 1.1.1.1.2

           23 July 2021 at 12:55 pm

           It's a contemporary variation on trickle-down theory. Instead of wealth trickling down from profit-driven enterprises, this time it will be salvational technology. God knows – but they may be right. Because we have spent 35 years eviscerating the State of both the will and the capacity to do much, this may be all we are left with.
   • RedLogix 1.2

     23 July 2021 at 11:14 am

     I suspect the future road map will have a mix of EV's and hydrogen. Both have their distinct optimal use cases and it will be interesting to see how this plays out. EV's definitely have a head start, but there is reason to think hydrogen could play a very large role in some contexts.

     The other aspect is using hydrogen for the direct (carbon free) conversion of iron ore to steel. One of my colleagues right now is an expert in this field and I'm impressed at what a big game changer this will be. Expect major plant startups using this technology within this decade.
   • Jenny how to get there 1.3

     23 July 2021 at 9:51 pm

     Dennis Frank

     23 July 2021 at 6:40 am

     "Meridian and Contact say they are seriously considering building a plant which would convert about 12 per cent of the country’s total electricity generation into green hydrogen……

     …….New Zealand has convened a hydrogen standards advisory group, and the Government will begin developing a hydrogen roadmap this year to examine the issue in more detail."

     Could the 'green hydrogen', proposed to be produced at Tiwai, be used to re-energise spent powdered iron fuel on an industrial scale?

     Unburnt (un-oxidised) iron powder has a higher energy density than coal and even petrol.

     For obvious reasons it can't burnt in Internal Combustion Engines, but it can be burnt in External Combustion Engines. That's right the good 'ol steam engine to you and me.

     Once burnt the only remains from the combustion of Iron powder, (Fe), is FeO2. That's right, good 'ol rust to you and me. (also in the form of a powder).

     To separate the O2 from the depleted iron, heated Hydrogen is passed over the powdered iron oxide to combine with the Oxygen to produce H2O which is vented as a vapour. The iron powder is ready to be burnt again. Repeatedy.

     If the Hydrogen is produced from a renewable source, which would be the case at Tiwai, then the whole cycle is completely carbon free.

     The energy from the hydrogen imbedded in the iron powder, can be stored for months and even years. Without the need for expensive pressure vessels, subject to leaks and explosions.

     The only downside of iron powder as a fuel is its weight, (another reason why it will never be a suitable replacement fuel for cars trucks and aeroplanes).

     In big surface vessels, ships and trains, where weight bearing is not such a big issue, iron powder is the perfect replacement for fossil fuels, especially the very dirty heavy bunker fuel oil used in ships.

     Iron powder could also be burnt in base load power stations, (Huntly could stay open).

     Iron powder could replace coal as a source of industrial heat, in bakeries and breweries and brick kilns, and for drying milk powder in dairy factories. And its non-toxic, did i mention that. (unlike oil and coal).

     We could bring back the Kingston flyer as a test bed for this new technology.
     (The Steampunks might have been on to something)

     The following article from Popular Mechanics claims that iron fuel is the fuel of the future.

     But is it?

     What is the draw back?

     it sounds too good to be true.

     Where is the fly in the ointment?

     Can anyone tell me?

     Burning Iron for Fuel Sounds Crazy. It's Also the Future.

     The most surprising renewable yet could power plenty of industries.

     Caroline Delbert Popular Mechanics, NOV 9, 2020

     A brewery in the Netherlands is making environmental history by using a cycle of renewable iron as fuel for its furnace.

     Royal Swinkels Family Brewers is working with Eindhoven University of Technology and a technology think tank calledMetal Poweron the circular economy of iron burning. “The iron acts as a kind of clean battery for combustion processes, charging up via one of a number of means including electrolysis, and discharging in flames and heat,”New Atlas reports.

     Here’s how it works: Iron is burned in furnaces, fulfilling a key industry requirement for high heat that isn’t covered by many other renewables. Then, the resulting oxidized rust waste is recycled back into newly re-burnable iron fuel using electrical energy that can be from clean sources…..

     Will this be one of the issues that the hydrogen standards advisory group, and the Government will begin examining in more detail?
     • Incognito 1.3.1

       23 July 2021 at 10:11 pm

       You forgot the linky-tinky again.

       Here it is, for everybody’s convenience: https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/green-tech/a34597615/burning-iron-powder-fuel-renewable/
       • Jenny how to get there 1.3.1.1

         24 July 2021 at 9:56 am

         My apologies. It was late, I was tired. Thanks for looking it up.
     • pat 1.3.2

       24 July 2021 at 10:12 am

       so a perpetual motion machine…..the energy required to convert and reinstate the iron is greater than the energy produced

       We must have more energy than we know what to do with.
2. left for dead 2

   23 July 2021 at 6:45 am

   Spell check,anyone ! or are we not done with the hand wringing yet.?
   • Dennis Frank 2.1

     23 July 2021 at 6:56 am

     With me it happened in primers 1,2 & 3. Come primer 4, I no longer needed to do it. But I gather the education system has slid steadily down the hill since the 1950s, so there may indeed be a real need for the techies here to come to your rescue.
     • left for dead 2.1.1

       23 July 2021 at 8:03 am

       @ Dennis

       Dyslexia is a very real problem in Aotearoa/New Zealand,most folk in prison struggle with it an it excludes a large number of people pitisapating in DEBATE.thanks to Solkta advise,I've got my self a new dictionary.It may suit some for others not too ingauge,but I will keep trying even though it might take twenty minutes to write this.

       Oh and too find the word can be difficuted,Phonics might help but that dictionary has disappeared.
       • Dennis Frank 2.1.1.1

         23 July 2021 at 8:15 am

         Okay, thanks for that explanation. I hope the techies get onto your case.
       • JO 2.1.1.2

         23 July 2021 at 9:29 am

         I don't know much about dyslexia but can imagine the frustration. A trick that might or might not work is just to write the consonants – t's srprsng hw qckly txt wrttn ths wy cn b ndrstd! Hp ths hlps?
         • left for dead 2.1.1.2.1

           23 July 2021 at 9:37 am

           Thanks u.

           Too be fair,I've always tried to spell out the word as I found txt languque a slippery slop.. but trust me I've tried many options. I see it as exclustionary,back to the dictionary,,exclusionery ,not there,Damn
           • Macro 2.1.1.2.1.1

             23 July 2021 at 1:25 pm

             My daughter has a form of dyslexia. We realised that there was no way she was going to cope in the public school system, and so we decided that we would try an alternative education for her at around the age of 9. We had been reading to her every day as she was unable to read at that time even the most basic text. The new school saw that she had a problem with connections between left brain and right brain. They began a series of curative eurythmy for her. Astoundingly, within 3 months she was able to read the first Harry Potter, and is now an avid reader, and writer. She still has difficulty with correct spelling on some of the more tricky English words.

             As you will be well aware "dyslexia" does not mean "unintelligent". There have been many advances in human knowledge and understanding and outstanding achievements made by persons with dyslexia. A cousin of mine was unable to complete school certificate because of his poor scores in English, yet he became a Professional Member of the NZ Royal Society. It was my task to proof read the papers he was about to send for publication in scientific journals to check the English.
             • Patricia Bremner …

               23 July 2021 at 2:50 pm

               Macro, the science behind the "Wobble board" is interesting. It is used in education to assist with the practice of using both right and left brain to assist learning. The brain, the new frontier.
             • left for dead …

               23 July 2021 at 3:28 pm

               @Macro
               Thanks and yes. hope your daughter is going well,intelligents has very little too do as you say,but jokingly with my self I wonder sometimes,Ha.the thing is i can speak well enough and understand what most words mean,may get out of order but hey-ho,just the print and lack of coninuity,which make a narritive difficult.I have made boo-bo's here more than once,cheers for your input.
           • Sacha 2.1.1.2.1.2

             23 July 2021 at 1:32 pm

             Thank you. So long as I can understand the other person I really do not care about how they spell. I'd rather hear what they say.
             • left for dead …

               23 July 2021 at 3:31 pm

               @Sacha

               Yes true that,online is a different kettle of fish.
         • mikesh 2.1.1.2.2

           23 July 2021 at 12:08 pm

           I don't see how just writing consonants would help with sdxl.
     • greywarshark 2.1.2

       23 July 2021 at 10:04 am

       DF Why bother to reply with only a sarky patronising response. If you can't help, don't want to, it's no help to get negatives from the self-consciously smart.
       • Dennis Frank 2.1.2.1

         23 July 2021 at 10:12 am

         Tbh, I was actually trying to help. Seemed like everyone ignored the problem yesterday, so I figured replying would draw attention to the request, thus raising the probability of a tech solution…
         • greywarshark 2.1.2.1.1

           23 July 2021 at 10:51 am

           Well just say so, Most of your reply was circumlocution. Is that spelt right? And amazingly I dd fnd mslf ndstndg.
           • Dennis Frank 2.1.2.1.1.1

             23 July 2021 at 11:05 am

             What? Are you lobbying for the style police position at TS yet again?? Last time resulted in a collective slap-down, I seem to recall, but full marks for dogged perseverance anyway!
             • greywarshark …

               23 July 2021 at 11:06 am

               DF BS
     • Macro 2.1.3

       23 July 2021 at 10:35 am

       Hmmm, I guess "bureaucrats" wasn't on the spelling list then.
     • Patricia Bremner 2.1.4

       23 July 2021 at 11:17 am

       Some people suffer word blindness Dennis. Your comment is rude.
       • Dennis Frank 2.1.4.1

         23 July 2021 at 11:48 am

         Technically, it would be ignorant – since I had to google word blindness to discover that it is an established cultural term that I'd not previously encountered. Rude is intentional behaviour, where the intent is to offend the other person.
         • Incognito 2.1.4.1.1

           23 July 2021 at 11:56 am

           Rude is intentional behaviour, where the intent is to offend the other person.

           I see that have joined others in redefining the meaning of words to suit your narrative.
           • Dennis Frank 2.1.4.1.1.1

             23 July 2021 at 1:40 pm

             When aghast at the tendency of postmodernism to accelerate the evolution of language, conservatives seek solace in a cuppaT & lie-down. This method may not work for progressives – however a switch of focus from trivia to essentials usually does.

             If, instead, you actually get off on picking nits, I'll try to generate a few more for you…

             [Sure, if you want to make up shit to suit yourself then accept the consequences without trying to put blame on others. If you don’t like to be called rude then don’t be rude and start acting all victimized because we don’t understand that you operate at a higher dimension than we do or we didn’t receive the same education as you did or because we are dyslexic, for example. Just to avoid any post-modern confusion, stop your post-modern BS and maybe apologize to make up for your unintentional rudeness; it won’t kill you – Incognito]
             • Incognito …

               23 July 2021 at 2:01 pm

               See my Moderation note @ 1:40 pm.
               • Dennis Frank …

                 23 July 2021 at 2:58 pm

                 I actually didn't blame anyone for anything – so why pretend that I did??

                 [actually, you did shift it to others and even the education system but you seem to ignore this, how convenient for you. Your comment @ 2.1.4.1.1.1 was a sly put down and avoiding taking responsibility too. I told you to stop your post-modern BS and will add to this your tendency to gaslight. In case it is not clear to you, your comments are being moderated and digging in is not smart. Maybe you keep quiet and take heed of the notes, yes – Incognito]
                 • Incognito …

                   23 July 2021 at 3:16 pm

                   See my Moderation note @ 2:58 pm.
                   • Dennis Frank …

                     23 July 2021 at 3:36 pm

                     Since when has a "sly put down" been unacceptable? I see them here from others all the time. The about page doesn't forbid them, right? Gaslight is not a term I'm familiar with. I think you're just trying to bully me by operating a double standard. I'm puzzled as to why you are…

                     [You ask:

                     Since when has a “sly put down” been unacceptable?

                     Since it is used as deflecting blame and responsibility for your own commenting behaviour, which you still haven’t accepted, I note, and you’re still digging in.

                     Google “gaslighting” and you will enrich your post-modern vocabulary.

                     Not smart at all to argue back to a Moderator and accusing them of bullying you.

                     In any case, not all context is the same, which might come as a surprise to you; different comments and commenters are treated differently depending on a wide range of reasons.

                     Since you seem to think that perception and interpretation are everything, so for your information, from the Policy:

                     What we’re not prepared to accept are pointless personal attacks, or tone or language that has the effect of excluding others. [my italics]

                     …

                     We don’t really want to ban anyone. If you’re borderline we’ll probably warn you first.

                     …

                     Generally wasting a moderators time is just not a good idea. We’re there to deal with isolated problems. People persistently sucking up our voluntary time won’t like the results.

                     …

                     Arguing with moderation is a trait requiring darwinian winnowing that usually results in a rapid education about who runs the site …

                     …

                     Finally, the moderators may put you into moderation for what they consider is bad behaviour, while they get around to having a look at your patterns of behaviour.

                     Please don’t try to argue your way out of Moderation, as it won’t work and you simply end up wasting more Moderator time. I have given you two warnings for something quite minor, but you opted to escalate it and this is your last warning. Take heed and STFU or take a ban – Incognito]
                   • Incognito []

                     23 July 2021 at 4:51 pm

                     See my Moderation note @ 3:36 pm.
   • weka 2.2

     23 July 2021 at 11:04 am

     Am happy to bring this up with Lynn again. Do you mean you want a spell check in the comment box? What do you need? Mis-spelled words are underlined, do you want to be able to click on them for the correct spelling?

     What devices are you using?
     • Brigid 2.2.1

       23 July 2021 at 1:18 pm

       I think they may mean this.

       When a word is misspelt in the comment box, right clicking on it doesn't give the list of various possible correct spellings but a 'paste' option.
       • Sacha 2.2.1.1

         23 July 2021 at 1:35 pm

         Might depend on browser settings as well.
       • Sabine 2.2.1.2

         23 July 2021 at 1:43 pm

         yep, that it does to me.

         solution, post the comment, hit edit and then the red underlined words are ok to be spell checked.
         desktop/chrome
       • weka 2.2.1.3

         23 July 2021 at 1:44 pm

         Yes, it's a long standing issue on TS, and as Sacha says I think it's browser/OS dependent. Seem to remember we had a discussion about this a while back, I'll see if I can find it.
         • Brigid 2.2.1.3.1

           23 July 2021 at 3:47 pm

           It's not browser or OS dependent. If it was it would occur on all other website comment boxes and it doesn't.

           Besides spellcheck is commonly the default. That the word is underlined shows that the browser recognises the incorrect spelling but for some reason doesn't initiate the next correct option. i.e. the list of possible words.

           I'm using Firefox and occasionally Chrome on Ubuntu.
           • weka 2.2.1.3.1.1

             23 July 2021 at 5:50 pm

             On my iPhone I have the ability to click on an underlined in red word and be offered options. Mobile version.
           • Sacha 2.2.1.3.1.2

             23 July 2021 at 6:07 pm

             I mean that the way @lprent has implemented it here may behave differently on browsers. Or not. It was a maybe..
             • Incognito …

               23 July 2021 at 6:24 pm

               Yup, Lprent can do a lot on this site but he cannot control people’s devices and browsers and settings unless he hacks them, which he tends to not do 😉
               • Sacha …

                 23 July 2021 at 6:27 pm

                 There are always limits to what components like these can do.
                 • Incognito …

                   23 July 2021 at 6:31 pm

                   Some devices are smarter than others.
           • greywarshark 2.2.1.3.1.3

             23 July 2021 at 6:47 pm

             Brigid
             I'm on Firefox but probably behind with updates. Do you notice that the spellchecker frequently underlines an s and seems to want me to put z. I think my English speller has a US bias or something. It is quite 'aggressive' about this.
             • Brigid …

               24 July 2021 at 4:01 pm

               Yes. Insisting on 'z' rather than 's' is common. That's because the spell checker default is set to American spelling. You can choose 'add to dictionary' to teach the damned thing that we aren't all American. Hopefully it wont be underlined next time you use it.
     • left for dead 2.2.2

       23 July 2021 at 3:20 pm

       Hello Weka,

       Yes the words are underlined but right click just shows paste,and I can not see how I could use that,so yes is their a spell check but not on my lap top. I have most things including replys etc. regards Al
       • left for dead 2.2.2.1

         23 July 2021 at 3:35 pm

         Oh Weka i think it is Ubuntu 1804.5 LTS
       • McFlock 2.2.2.2

         23 July 2021 at 5:00 pm

         If you're on a laptop, a temporary work-around might be to use a word processor (e.g. libreoffice on linux) to draft things up and then paste them into the comment box.

         I tend to do that with longer pieces or important emails.
         • left for dead 2.2.2.2.1

           23 July 2021 at 5:46 pm

           Ta, I'll see if that works and me working it.
           • greywarshark 2.2.2.2.1.1

             23 July 2021 at 6:49 pm

             I'm on gmail and find it useful sometimes to draft using the Compose window which has a useful set of gadgets to manage the text. Then I just copy it and paste it in TS. And my Compose window is set for frequent saves so it's virtually idiot proof.
             • left for dead …

               24 July 2021 at 9:04 am

               @ Grey,

               Cheers. Idiot proof for me,it will need to be.

               left for deadshark.
         • weka 2.2.2.2.2

           23 July 2021 at 5:48 pm

           This works on a phone too, on an iPhone Notes will allow predictive text and correction as well as post-typing spell check.
     • left for dead 2.2.3

       23 July 2021 at 3:39 pm

       Hello Weka,

       Ubuntu 18.04.5 LTS
3. Jenny how to get there 3

   23 July 2021 at 6:56 am

   I don't know whether to laugh or cry

   https://gizmodo.com/pro-trump-group-files-motion-against-fda-to-stop-covid-1847325556
   • Forget now 3.1

     23 July 2021 at 10:02 am

     Why not do both at the same time?

     Dr. Stella Immanuel, a Texas doctor who spoke at the press conference insisted that cysts were caused by people having sex with demons and witches.

     Dr. Simone Gold, a doctor and lawyer in Los Angeles, founded the group and previously appeared on Fox News when Donald Trump was president. Gold also has connections to the Tea Party Patriots Foundation. Gold was also at the Washington riot on January 6, when Trump supporters stormed the Capitol building in an attempt to stop the certification of 2020's election results that made Joe Biden president. Gold even made a speech a day earlier calling the covid-19 vaccine an “experimental, biological agent deceptively named a vaccine,” according to the Washington Post.
     • greywarshark 3.1.1

       23 July 2021 at 10:48 am

       Where do such doctors do their training in the USA? They need to get certification somewhere as sane persons capable of helping their fellow citizens?
     • Jenny how to get there 3.1.2

       23 July 2021 at 12:23 pm

       On a more serious note:

       ‘Ridiculous’: Vaccine myths cripple U.S. uptake as delta surges

       By Josh Wingrove, Kristen V. Brown and Daniael Zuidijk

       BLOOMBERG, Jul 22, 2021

       …..Unvaccinated Americans cite a litany of myths to explain their hesitance to get shots, confounding local health officials battling yet another surge of coronavirus cases fueled by the more transmissible delta variant……

       “Everything from Bill Gates putting a microchip in it — I’ve heard everything. It’s ridiculous,” said Tom Keller, chief executive officer of Ozarks Health Care in southern Missouri, a region with low vaccination rates that’s an epicenter of the U.S. delta outbreak.

       “People are listening to social media instead of listening to their docs,” he said. “Somebody who has a million followers all of the sudden becomes the expert on not getting the vaccine.”

       Just as the Biden administration appeared on the verge of snuffing out COVID-19 in the U.S., a shadow pandemic of disinformation threatens to prolong the crisis. Promulgated virus-like itself through social media platforms, a miasma of uncertainties, anecdotes and outright lies has seized the imaginations of Americans hesitant to be vaccinated, slowing the U.S. campaign to inoculate its population.

       …..A political divide has also emerged, with Republicans far more likely to be unvaccinated than Democrats, polls show. Conservative media and some Republican officeholders have in some cases amplified disinformation, or have tacitly supported vaccine hesitancy by refusing to get shots themselves — or admit they have.

       https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/07/22/world/us-vaccine-misinformation/
       • Forget now 3.1.2.1

         23 July 2021 at 1:07 pm

         This doctor's account on the ground in Alabama makes pretty sad reading (I found the days old article linked via a Guardian story today):

         Dr. Brytney Cobia said Monday that all but one of her COVID patients in Alabama did not receive the vaccine. The vaccinated patient, she said, just needed a little oxygen and is expected to fully recover. Some of the others are dying… “One of the last things they do before they’re intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I’m sorry, but it’s too late.”…

         “I hug their family members and I tell them the best way to honor their loved one is to go get vaccinated and encourage everyone they know to do the same.”

         “They cry. And they tell me they didn’t know. They thought it was a hoax. They thought it was political. They thought because they had a certain blood type or a certain skin color they wouldn’t get as sick. They thought it was ‘just the flu’. But they were wrong. And they wish they could go back. But they can’t. So they thank me and they go get the vaccine. And I go back to my office, write their death note, and say a small prayer that this loss will save more lives.”…

         “All these kids are about to go back to school. No mask mandates are in place at all, 70% of Alabama is unvaccinated. Of course, no kids are vaccinated for the most part because they can’t be,” Cobia said. “So it feels like impending doom, basically.”…

         ‘Why haven’t you gotten the vaccine?’ And I’ll just ask it point blank, in the least judgmental way possible,” she said. “And most of them, they’re very honest, they give me answers. ‘I talked to this person, I saw this thing on Facebook, I got this email, I saw this on the news,’ you know, these are all the reasons that I didn’t get vaccinated.

         “And the one question that I always ask them is, did you make an appointment with your primary care doctor and ask them for their opinion on whether or not you should receive the vaccine? And so far, nobody has answered yes to that question.”

         https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/im-sorry-but-its-too-late-alabama-doctor-on-treating-unvaccinated-dying-covid-patients.html
       • Jenny how to get there 3.1.2.2

         23 July 2021 at 5:59 pm

         '

         How should his team mates deal with this guy?

         Maybe they could go all 'old school' trade unionism on him, and threaten to go on strike, until he gets his jab, or the organisers agree to ban him.

         Tokyo Olympics: 'Foolish, selfish' US swimmer slammed for refusing Covid-19 vaccine

         Phil Lutton 17:40, Jul 22 2021

         American swimmer Michael Andrew has been vocal about his refusal to have a vaccine before the Tokyo Games. Now, as the reality of the Covid-19 situation at the Olympics starts to hit, former US swimmers are calling him out for putting the health of the powerhouse Team USA squad in peril……

         “He sounded proud as he spoke, proud of his selfish, foolish ways. Proud to be a hindrance to his teammates, a worry to all. Proud to be doing whatever the heck he wants, no matter how it affects anyone else,…..”
         Prominent USA Today columnist Christien Brennan.

         “That Michael would make a decision that puts even a bit of risk on his teammates for his own perceived well-being frustrates me,”
         Fellow US Swim Team member, backstroke gold medallist, Maya DiRado

         https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/300364203/tokyo-olympics-foolish-selfish-us-swimmer-slammed-for-refusing-covid19-vaccine

         How should we deal with vaccine hesitancy?

         Reflections on democracy;

         (debate carried over from Freedom Day)

         Democracy has been described as the dictatorship of the majority over the minority.

         I have had the honour and privilege to have had my political views about democracy shaped by my experience in the grass roots trade union movement…..

         https://thestandard.org.nz/freedom-day/#comment-1804430

         Reading about US swimmer Michael Andrew's 'vocal' and 'proud sounding' refusal to be vaccinated, reminded me of an incident I had occasion to be involved in at a large unionised South Auckland workplace back in the good old days before the anti union Employment Contracts Act.

         The workers had one of the best shop floor delegates that I ever met. Indefatigueable and fearless in confronting the boss on her workmates behalf. Naturally she was well loved and respected..
         One day, (outside of work hours), she was involved in a bad car accident that left her with hand injuries and unable to work.
         As a sign of respect and in recognition of her advocacy on their behalf, the workers took a vote to each garner their wages by $20 a week for one month to help their delegate's recovery. In those days all decisions on any collective action was decided by a vote of 60 to 40. I can't remember the winning percentage, but the vote was carried by the needed margin.
         After a week I was contacted by the stand-in acting job delegate, who informed me there was a problem. Two women had point blank refused to give the delegate their $20, and it was creating some dissention among the rest. "Really? I was surpirsed. "Who are they?". She told me their names. I recognised one name. she was a new immigrant who I knew had been helped in the past by the injured delegate.

         I told the acting delegate I would sort it out.

         At lunch time both women were sitting together at a table in a corner of the canteen. They both recognised me as I approached. The woman I didn't know had a deeply lined face and a pinched expression and just glared at me. The other woman who I knew looked glad to see me. I sat down. "Do you you remember", I began, "when you first came to this country and this was your first job in New Zealand?"
         "Do you remember that it created a fuss when everyone found out the employer had hired you on less than the agreed rate.?"

         She nodded. "Then you would remember that time in the carpark where the delegate made you all wait outside while she went in to see the boss on your behalf." She nodded again. "Then you will remember when she came back and said the employer has agreed to pay you the full rate".
         "What you mightn't know" i continued, "Is that the manager initially refused to increase your rate, saying he had no legal obligation to do so, as your qualifications weren't recognised in this country. The delegate told the boss, "I don't care where she comes from she is doing the same work as the rest of us, therefore she gets the going rate". The employer then told the delegate if she insisted that you be paid the same rate as the rest, he would have to let you go. The delelgate then threatened to call a strike, unless he relented.
         "That was more than three years ago, I have my New Zealand registration now."
         "Yes but for a long time you worked on the full rate, even without your New Zealand qualification. If it hadn't been for your delegate, you could have been working here for a lot less, or even not working here at all."
         "I also know that with the extra money you made, you and your husband were able to scrape up enough between you to put a deposit on a house". (It was much easier in those days).
         "So how about it? Will you agree to pay the levy?"

         She said she would.

         As I got up to leave, I remember the shocked blank look on the face of her friend, even the deep lines on her face had seemed to plump out.

         Some would call that exerting undue influence, or even coercion.

         I would call it democracy.

         But what would I know. I am just an ignorant old working person from South Auckland.

         P.S.

         A week later I checked in with the acting delegate. "Is that worker paying the levy?" "Yes" she replied. "What about the other one?" "Yes, she is paying it too."
         • mauī 3.1.2.2.1

           23 July 2021 at 6:35 pm

           Perhaps his teammates can force his personal medical choices on him… Although not all of us want to relive some kind of facist society.
           • Jenny how to get there 3.1.2.2.1.1

             23 July 2021 at 6:41 pm

             If he feels so strongly about it, he can always quit. It's a free world afterall.

             Maybe he could trade his celebrity/notoriety for a job in the Donald Trump re-election team.

             The Qanon movement need a hard done by martyr, maybe he could apply for the position.
         • joe90 3.1.2.2.2

           23 July 2021 at 10:32 pm

           How should his team mates deal with this guy?

           Ostracise him, isolate him and leave him on his tod to deal with the consequences of his bone-headed dogma.

           Thread.

           https://twitter.com/ggreeneva/status/1418217446121512960

           https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1418217446121512960.html
           • Jenny how to get there 3.1.2.2.2.1

             24 July 2021 at 10:07 am

             Just another Right Wing Superspreader-individualistic-covid-19-atrocious-expelia-docious

             Don’t shove your infection down our throat.

             (And into our lungs).

             Idiot!

             Against stupidity, the Gods themselves, contend in vain.

             Friedrich Schiller
     • Sacha 3.1.3

       23 July 2021 at 1:36 pm

       Link for that quote?
       • arkie 3.1.3.1

         23 July 2021 at 1:41 pm

         see comment at 3 they were replying to
       • Andre 3.1.3.2

         23 July 2021 at 1:41 pm

         It's from the gizmodo piece linked in Jenny's comment directly above it.
         • arkie 3.1.3.2.1

           23 July 2021 at 1:42 pm

           Snap
           • Sacha 3.1.3.2.1.1

             23 July 2021 at 6:09 pm

             Ta
4. Anne 4

   23 July 2021 at 9:37 am

   I think some DHBs don't like their little fiefdoms being penetrated by GPs and pharmacies. Sheesh!

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018805111/pharmacies-underutilised-in-covid-19-vaccine-rollout
   • mpledger 4.1

     23 July 2021 at 9:49 am

     It takes a lot more administrative effort to run lots of little vaccination clinics then one big clinic.
     • Anne 4.1.1

       23 July 2021 at 11:21 am

       I accept that mpledger but it is not an insurmountable problem. I doubt anyone is suggesting lots of little vaccination clinics but rather one or two well placed pharmacies/GP clinics per region who have the skills, capacity and the desire to be involved in the project.

       An example is my region – the North Shore. We have one large clinic in Birkenhead which covers an area stretching from Devonport in the south to Rodney in the North. It also stretches west into suburbs nominally considered to be part of West Auckland. That is a huge area and they are doing a tremendous job. I went there for my first jab and witnessed it for myself.

       The main problem is that some elderly and vulnerable folk do not have the capacity (for whatever reason) to get to this clinic. Setting aside retirement villages and rest homes, there are significant numbers in this category who have not had their first jab yet. A local pharmacy or GP clinic with the skills required – plus easy access – in the south of the region and another in the north would see a lot more category 3 people coming forward for vaccination.
       • Sacha 4.1.1.1

         23 July 2021 at 6:12 pm

         GPs also handle other vaccinations already and have trained nurses and appropriate storage. They are more trusted by some people than strangers in a big vax centre. Yet some DHBs seem unable to walk and chew gum at the same time. No wonder they are for the chop.
         • Grafton Gully 4.1.1.1.1

           23 July 2021 at 8:10 pm

           "Labtests NZ" collection centres too, but only two on the shore.
         • Anne 4.1.1.1.2

           23 July 2021 at 9:18 pm

           
   • Foreign Waka 4.2

     23 July 2021 at 3:10 pm

     Hmmm… I know 2 ladies at age 88 and 93 and both have no phone or computer which seem to be the pre requisite to get anything going. Both still live in their own home and it should be their GP that should contact them so that they have certainty.

     I am pretty certain that these 2 ladies are not he only ones who will forever be kept on the waiting list.
     • pat 4.2.1

       23 July 2021 at 6:28 pm

       But hopefully not if their GPs make sure they get vaccinated
5. greywarshark 5

   23 July 2021 at 10:09 am

   edit
   Good things happened in the NZ film business during Covid19, now we have proved to the world that we are up to it.

   https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55272486

   Dec.11/20 How New Zealand's film industry boomed during the pandemic

   …Thanks to its handling of the Covid-19 pandemic, the country is enjoying an unprecedented boom in film production, with directors seeking safe conditions, and that most elusive thing this year – a normal life.

   International blockbusters including James Cameron's Avatar sequels, Amazon's Lord of the Rings series and Jane Campion's The Power of the Dog – starring Benedict Cumberbatch and Kirsten Dunst – all managed complex film shoots in New Zealand this year.

   The country's home-grown movies have also received a boost at the box office by Kiwis supporting their industry, leading one local filmmaker to joke that they're now living in "the Hollywood of the Pacific".

   …According to the New Zealand Ministry of Culture and Heritage, the industry supports about 21,000 local jobs and contributes $NZ 2.7 billion (£1.4bn) to its GDP every year. The government has also announced a NZ$50 million (£26million) production grant that Annabelle Sheehan hopes “will lead to a surge in New Zealand led stories.”

   She also reports “about a doubling” of international inquiries for filming in the country in 2021.

   I read a lot of Anne Perry and see that she has shifted from Scotland to the West Coast USA and I think that movie/s are under discussion. What about making some here. She is a very sensitive writer about people, and gets cliff-hanging plots, with strong characters. A lot are set in London, with one character being in the River Police, and another more to do with society foibles. But there is a WW1 series that are good. Just an idea.
6. greywarshark 6

   23 July 2021 at 10:42 am

   https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2021/07/22/the-pegasus-proclivity-on-recent-revelations-of-israeli-international-espionage/

   This sounds like an Israeli intelligence coup. And after reading I see it as similar to arms dealers selling arms to both sides of a conflict, and if they know all about the two countries' weaknesses (through covert intelligence) then they know how to inflame them, and reap the benefit of selling them arms to fight it out. Perhaps we should go back to primitive bare knuckling, men or women, perhaps we should be gender free, or turn our trans men into national heroes.
7. Herodotus 7

   23 July 2021 at 10:57 am

   why has our minister not led the conservation and gone bush ? One reason could be he has been placed in this position because the govt doesn’t want debate and he is incapable to (promoted to fail, I know a bit Machiavellian ) Sure there are some who have taken over the role in this matter (posts on TS) but it is the govt to take control, if they cannot enter into coheriant conversation it says alot and not very complementary .
   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/447500/silence-over-hate-speech-laws-has-allowed-misinformation-in-minorities-say
   • Matiri 7.1

     23 July 2021 at 11:11 am

     "led the conservation and gone bush" lol

     think you mean conversation….
     • Herodotus 7.1.1

       23 July 2021 at 12:28 pm

       Must have been my subconscious taking over as I was about to attach a liquid bird feeder to a tree out in the backyard 😉

       I read that they are great once the birds take confidence that they are safe to feed from.
       • weston 7.1.1.1

         23 July 2021 at 10:34 pm

         What would be the liquid you,d be feeding them Herodotus just out of interest ?
         • Herodotus 7.1.1.1.1

           24 July 2021 at 9:21 am

           Water , honey and a little red food colouring all in a happily and well enjoyed (now) empty bottle of wine and a dish . The bottle upended and framed on a wooden stand with a platform for the birds to stand on. There are a few tui's around, have not sighted a kereru since the initial lock down, last April. Then the number of native birds seen was very uplifting. But city life appears to have sent them back to a more peaceful area.

           https://www.selwyncomed.school.nz/courses/1627-make-your-own-birdfeeder/
8. Dennis Frank 8

   23 July 2021 at 11:02 am

   Capitalists vs Controllers saga happening in China: "Beijing's sweeping tech crackdown has rocked firms from Alibaba and Ant Group to Meituan and Pinduoduo. And its efforts to control the sector spread even further this month." https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/22/investing/china-us-ipos-intl-hnk/index.html

   "The Cyberspace Administration of China — a powerful internet watchdog with Chinese Community Party links that trace all the way up to President Xi Jinping — banned Didi from app stores days after its initial public offering. The CAC, which has accused Didi of illegally collecting and using personal information, also joined several other government agencies, including ministries in charge of public and state security, in visiting the Beijing-based company to review its cybersecurity."

   "The watchdog, whose influence has ballooned since Xi set the agency up in 2014, is also setting its sights on curtailing overseas listings. It recently proposed that any company with data on more than one million users must seek the agency's approval before listing its shares overseas."

   "Things are looking pretty dire for Chinese tech right now, especially firms that have been considering overseas listings as a way to raise money. The chill created by tensions, both within China's borders and with its greatest rival, could bring overseas investment in Chinese tech to a grinding halt. Investors are already rattled. China's unprecedented tech crackdown has wiped $1 trillion off the value of overseas-listed Chinese tech stocks since February — one of the worst sell-offs in history, Goldman Sachs analysts said in a research report last week."

   "Goldman estimated that China's digital economy accounts for 40% of the country's GDP, and that the tech sector represented some 40% of the MSCI China Index, which is widely followed by global equity investors as a major benchmark."

   "US investors now hold about $1 trillion in Chinese stocks. That includes about $590 billion worth of exposure in Hong Kong, $330 billion in the United States, and $135 billion in mainland China, according to a recent estimate by Goldman Sachs."

   Looks like the reef fish just got shifted into flight mode, eh? Another crisis of capitalism may ensue – aversion to melt-down likely to be motivating central bankers all round the world, crisis meetings for contingency planning…
9. greywarshark 9

   23 July 2021 at 11:06 am

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018804920/the-miq-nightmare

   Today's Acronyms of note: MIQ and MoBIE

   A new word has popped up in news stories about the MIQ booking nightmare – script. It's the key to Ietting a highly contested space in managed isolation.

   Jon Brewer was offered this kind of high-tech help to get out of Singapore where he has been living with his wife.

   But he says it is cheating and he refuses to break the terms and conditions of the MIQ booking system.

   He's taking his fight to the Ombudsman and if that doesn't work he'll hire a lawyer.

   "I want them to compel MBIE (Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment) to solve the problem. I went to them (the Ombudsman) because I complained to MBIE through their process that I was unable to interact with the site in a way that would allow me to get a booking the way that they have required me to use the site.
10. Ad 10

    23 July 2021 at 11:06 am

    This public service announcement is a succinct 1 minute video push by every previous President (except Trump), and including 96-year old Jimmy Carter, urging all to get vaccinated.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCza6UGmRTk

    Once we get to the hard-to-reach and moronic who don't want the vaccine, it would be time for all of our previous Prime Ministers still around to do the same on video, and they are: Palmer, Bolger, Shipley, Clark, Key, and English.

    We need cross-Party leadership to assist in this nationwide effort.
    • Andre 10.1

      23 July 2021 at 12:01 pm

      Fortunately we in NZ have mostly avoided making the vaccine a political identity issue the way the Donnie One-Term cultists have. Who aren't likely to be influenced by Shrub's endorsement in any case. So I have doubts any of our former PMs would be influential among those that would need to be influenced.

      The political 'leaders' we would need to get on board here in NZ include the likes of Billy Te Kookiha, Sue Kedgley etc. Good luck with that.
11. Chris 11

    23 July 2021 at 11:21 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125834890/labour-list-mp-tamati-coffey-hits-back-at-81m-rotorua-motel-purchase-critics

    Good that someone's pointed this out. McClay's despicably disingenuous response reeked of the same desperation that runs throughout the national party at the moment.

    What's important, though, is that the government keeps in the front of its mind what Coffey referred to, which is that all of this emergency and transitional housing malarkey is a temporary fix. This is easy to say but hard to execute. It's easy to see emergency and transitional housing getting a permanent spot within our wider social welfare system. Just look at what food banks have become. They were talked about as a temporary measure back around the time of the 1991 benefit cuts. Now the bloody Ministry of Social Development even funds them. An extremely sad state of affairs things have come to this, but it's nothing new because it's something that affects only the poor so nobody really gives a fuck, which is the only reason this has been allowed to happen, of course. The same thing will happen to emergency and transitional housing unless there are a clear and deliberate efforts to avoid it.
    • Bearded Git 11.1

      23 July 2021 at 1:49 pm

      +100 Chris
12. greywarshark 12

    23 July 2021 at 11:33 am

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/whoseatingnewzealand/447490/booze-tops-new-zealand-exports-to-antarctica

    Can booze be used as anti-freeze? Did you ever hear that story about film star David Niven out skiing who noticed numbness in his vitals and found brandy helped?
    • Andre 12.1

      23 July 2021 at 12:07 pm

      Yes, ethanol is a very effective antifreeze. In water it lowers the freezing point progressively with increasing concentration all the way to about 93% by weight where it freezes at about -115C. Which is why it is about major ingredient in windscreen washer fluid in cold climates.

      David Niven may have thought the brandy helped, but what it actually did was open up the capillaries near his skin which gives the sensation of warmth, but actually increases heat flow away from his vitals.
      • Sacha 12.1.1

        23 July 2021 at 1:39 pm

        Helps you feel better about freezing to death, I guess. And who doesn't like a St Bernard? 🙂
        • Andre 12.1.1.1

          23 July 2021 at 1:56 pm

          Have enough of it, and you won't be freezing to death.
          • greywarshark 12.1.1.1.1

            23 July 2021 at 4:34 pm

            I seem to remember that Niven applied it externally, dunkin' donut style.
    • joe90 12.2

      23 July 2021 at 1:32 pm

      McMurdo Station is dry.
13. Stephen D 13

    23 July 2021 at 2:06 pm

    The rivers of rain we are getting are obviously an effect of climate change.

    Should this be a concern for those Wellingtonians who live on the sides of steep hills. And from memory there are a lot of them. Perhaps planning has already taken this hillside/slippage/mud slide thing into consideration.

    Any geologists out there?
14. RobbieWgtn 14

    23 July 2021 at 3:37 pm

    Race relations commissioner Meng Foon told Newshub the booklet is "racist to the core".

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/07/absolutely-culturally-ignorant-bay-of-plenty-dhb-covid-19-vaccine-booklet-withdrawn-from-circulation.html

    Hold my beer.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/125840147/covid19-mori-artist-created-offensive-pamphlet-design-with-moko-on-cartoon-virus

    DHB board chair Sharon Shea first saw it on Thursday night, was offended and found it wrong, she said in a statement.

    “Since last night, I have been informed it was designed by a Māori artist, and had input from Māori marketing specialists and it had gone through an approval process, including consultation with some local iwi,” she said.
    • greywarshark 14.1

      23 July 2021 at 4:32 pm

      Ah. Thanks for that factual piece of info with links Robbie Wgtn.

      Also on sensitive topics – women's prison study.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/re_covering/story/2018804704/03-guyon-espiner-auckland-women-s-prison
    • Jimmy 14.2

      23 July 2021 at 5:18 pm

      I guess that is what you call and own goal! What a waste of money. So Maori are being racist and offending themselves?
      • Sabine 14.2.1

        23 July 2021 at 5:21 pm

        to be fair, in the article it seems that no one asked the people involved in the design what they thought.

        maybe that will be in another article?
    • bwaghorn 14.3

      23 July 2021 at 5:26 pm

      My god where reaching peak offence stipidity at any moment, people's heads are actually going to start popping soon.
      • greywarshark 14.3.1

        23 July 2021 at 6:29 pm

        bw How will we tell what the signs are?
        • Anne 14.3.1.1

          23 July 2021 at 10:46 pm

          Bulging eyes and head jerking?
15. greywarshark 15

    23 July 2021 at 4:49 pm

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/447445/how-ordinary-kiwi-cyclists-started-being-seen-as-elitist

    I notice that many males ride on bikes in a way similar to how they would drive. Then there are ones in the twilight and dark all dressed in black, no brightness to show up, and they possibly won't have a light either. They don't indicate and they go through red lights relying on being nippy and thinking that cars can see them. They don't realise if they are in front of headlights that they are invisible.

    Drivers have to wait at busy inter-sections longer because in the middle of the only space for half a minute is a cyclist, slower, vulnerable and defenceless. Then when they choose to ride on the footpath they can woosh by and then the pedestrian gets stressed out. It's mostly males, used to getting what they want, who have started the footpath stunt for adults, okay for children though they can be fast. Because it is males who are most vociferous, they are catered to without spending on a needed division on the footpath so both wheels and feet have their own space. Happy people intermingling on coloured mock-ups for council publicity mock reality about safety and ease for walkers.
    • Gabby 15.1

      23 July 2021 at 6:56 pm

      I've not noticed this. Where is it happening? Ninja cyclists will very quickly become ex ninja ex cyclists.
16. joe90 16

    24 July 2021 at 8:24 pm

    Remember when when we thought the internet would help the world become a smarter, more informed place. Unfortunately, we got morons by the gross.

    https://twitter.com/vanbadham/status/1418795177217568769
    • bwaghorn 16.1

      25 July 2021 at 8:23 am

      What's even scarier is that people like that are allowed to vote. !!

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