Open mike 23/09/2022

116 comments on “Open mike 23/09/2022 ”

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1. Jenny are we there yet 1

   23 September 2022 at 6:11 am

   The Prime Minister has ordered a paid national day off work on the death of the Queen
   The death of 50 Muslim men women and children murdered in Christchurch got only two minutes.

   What does this say about us?

   Christchurch mosque shootings: Two-minute silence on Friday to honour the dead, PM Jacinda Ardern announces

   By Derek Cheng

   20 Mar, 2019 04:45 PM

   A two-minute silence will be held on Friday to commemorate the one-week anniversary of last week's massacre.

   Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern made the announcement during a visit to Christchurch today…..

   The first burial of those who died took place today – two refugees from Syria – and Ardern said they should have been safe in New Zealand…..

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christchurch-mosque-shootings-two-minute-silence-on-friday-to-honour-the-dead-pm-jacinda-ardern-announces/JMUM3X2RGGDLMGKDEH444MBCCY/?
   • DB Brown 1.1

     23 September 2022 at 6:45 am

     What a ridiculous comparison.
     • Jenny are we there yet 1.1.1

       23 September 2022 at 8:06 am

       Ridiculous?

       How?

       DB could you expand on your objection

       In your opinion which is more ridiculous? A one whole day national stoppage for the death on the other side of the world of the Queen of England in her bed? Or the two minutes national stoppage for innocent deaths of Muslims murdered at prayer in this country?

       I would like to ask you, DB which commemoration is more ridiculous?

       I know which one I think is more 'ridiculous'

       DB I can't help thinking how much more significant and worthwhile it would have been for us if the PM had ordered the country to take a day off for us to reflect on the lives and cruel deaths of of 51 defenceless innocent Muslim men women and children here in our country at the hands of a racist white supremacist?
       How much more significant and worthwhile this would have been than ordering the country to take the day off in honour of the life and death of an uber rich white women on the other side of the world?

       Maybe our leaders could pass legislation as they have done for the Queen's death, order that on the next significant anniversary of the Christchurch killings, that we are insightful and caring enough to mark out of respect for the dead in the terrible tragedy in Christchurch with a one off day off.

       Would that be ridiculous or too much to ask?
       • DB Brown 1.1.1.1

         23 September 2022 at 8:12 am

         You may ask of me nothing you ridiculous fake.
         • Jenny are we there yet 1.1.1.1.1

           23 September 2022 at 9:40 am

           '

           "…..they should have been safe in New Zealand."

           Prime Minister Ardern, March 20, 2019
       • Incognito 1.1.1.2

         23 September 2022 at 8:15 am

         There goes my Good Friday …
         • DB Brown 1.1.1.2.1

           23 September 2022 at 8:23 am

           I played the ball she replies with a bunch of personal pleas like one of those email ads trying to sell us a course for a motivational speaker. It may go on and on but I'm done with that speaker on that topic.

           Also, you might have noticed – I short-ban myself if I get too tetchy.
           • Incognito 1.1.1.2.1.1

             23 September 2022 at 9:53 am

             Sorry, you took it the wrong way – it was meant as a very subtle response to Jenny’s … musings. I used capitals …
           • Jenny are we there yet 1.1.1.2.1.2

             23 September 2022 at 10:50 am

             "I played the ball she replies with a bunch of personal pleas…."

             DB Brown

             With respect DB, you didn't play the ball you replied to me with an ad hominem insult.

             "You may ask of me nothing you ridiculous fake."

             DB Brown
             • DB Brown …

               23 September 2022 at 2:13 pm

               Fuck off you and your clown shoes. I called you out when you, by name several times, tried drag me into your pathetic charade. You utter fuckwit.

               [lprent: Less of that, please. While that is how I often think of you, I really don’t think that it adds anything to the debate. It is the act of a simpleton with poor control and no argument. ]
       • Jimmy 1.1.1.3

         23 September 2022 at 9:25 am

         Do you think there should be a day off for the Pike River miners as well?
         • Belladonna 1.1.1.3.1

           23 September 2022 at 9:40 am

           And certainly one for the people killed in road accidents (over 350 of them every year)
           • Jenny are we there yet 1.1.1.3.1.1

             23 September 2022 at 10:33 am

             Now there's a thought.

             Great idea.

             Again. Why not?

             We could have a real debate to examine the real cost of private transport on deaths and environmental damage, and how to effectively lower the road toll.

             Why should one off commemorations be limited to celebrating royalty?

             Maybe having one off paid days off work could be the way to have a national discussion and debate to examine and reflect on such major questions. It may very well be a way to engage the public and enhance our democracy.

             Bring on this national debate I say.

             https://www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/articles/17905-public-transportation-is-10-times-safer-for-commuters-analysis-shows
             • Belladonna …

               23 September 2022 at 5:39 pm

               Anyone who believes that a day off work involves people engaging in national discussion and debate on major questions, is invited to observe how the majority of Kiwis spend Waitangi Day.
         • Jenny are we there yet 1.1.1.3.2

           23 September 2022 at 10:19 am

           ‘

           “Do you think there should be a day off for the Pike River miners as well?”

           Jimmy

           Yes.

           It should have been done.

           We can have a one off day for the death of the figurehead of one of the most brutal empires in the history of the world, but we can't have a day off to commemorate the deaths of honest working men who died arguably unnecessary deaths in the service of a fossil fuel company. .

           Maybe if we had had a one off day to commemorate those men's deaths, it would have given us a chance to have a national debate to examine our collective consciences over whether those workers should have been engaged in that dangerous and environmentally damaging practice in the first place.

           …..The most dangerous form of energy for workers is:

           In raw number of deaths: coal (by a long shot).

           ….Britain built itself on dangerous coal mines. The Oaks colliery disaster in 1866 killed more than 380 miners, close to the number who have probably died in Soma. Industrial advancement has invariably killed thousands of coal miners. It's true that now, better means of extraction are available. But coal mining remains inherently dangerous. Maybe it's time for a better way to modernise?

           https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/15/most-dangerous-form-of-energy-coal

           Coal is a fossil fuel, and is the dirtiest of them all, responsible for over 0.3C of the 1C increase in global average temperatures. This makes it the single largest source of global temperature rise…..

           https://www.clientearth.org/latest/latest-updates/stories/fossil-fuels-and-climate-change-the-facts/#:~:text=Coal%20is%20a%20fossil%20fuel%2C%20and%20is%20the,a%20third%20of%20the%20world%E2%80%99s%20total%20carbon%20emissions.

           Instead of being treated as adults and equals we are made to passively consume images of empty pageantry and rituals of a dying empire on the other side of the world. Spoon fed endless mindless discussion and debate over the smallest minutia of the British Royals' lives (and deaths). Not that any of this has any relevancy at all to most people's real lived experience. Except as a form of escapism.
           • Belladonna 1.1.1.3.2.1

             23 September 2022 at 5:47 pm

             we are made to passively consume images of empty pageantry and rituals of a dying empire on the other side of the world.

             Ah, no. You are perfectly free to switch the channel on the TV coverage (should you actually watch that archaic form of media), and read/watch something else.

             As, based on your frequent posts on international affairs, you clearly have done.

             No one is forcing you to watch anything – either passively or actively.

             Just as I (oh, heresy in NZ) am not particularly interested in rugby, and don't enjoy/watch or 'passively consume' the endless forensic analysis of the latest AB win or loss – and, therefore, choose not to watch/listen/read the coverage. However, I don't demand that the coverage cease to be produced for the benefit of those who do enjoy it – simply because I'm not interested.
             • Jenny are we there yet …

               23 September 2022 at 7:21 pm

               Point taken.

               If I hadn't rushed I would have written;

               A lot of time and money and effort has been put into encouraging us to become passive consumers of the pageantry and rituals of a moribund empire on the other side of the world. The purpose of course is not to change it. (to paraphrase mangle Marx)

               Public opinion is a manufactured product.
               • Belladonna …

                 23 September 2022 at 8:04 pm

                 Public opinion is a manufactured product.

                 Well, yes. That is just as true of the Kardashians, Johnny Depp & whoever the latest sports royalty is.

                 Railing against press coverage of something which demonstrably has a significant degree of popular interest – but which you don't happen to like – is an entirely futile activity.

                 Vote with your feet (or eyes in this case).
                 • Jenny are we there yet …

                   24 September 2022 at 7:46 am

                   “Vote with your feet (or eyes in this case).”

                   With the wall to wall coverage, that would have been hard.

                   Even if you were actively averting your eyes I am sure Belladonna that you would have viewed at least some of this footage or been aware of the massive fandom generated by it. If you did the opposite and watched the MSM media all you liked and you would have found it hard to get news of the terrible climate disaster in Pakistan unfolding before our eyes, removed from before our eyes.

                   [deleted]
                   • weka …

                     24 September 2022 at 8:18 am

                     I’ve deleted the paragraphs that looked like they were copy and pastes but didn’t have any formatting to show that and didn’t link to the source.
                 • Jenny are we there yet …

                   24 September 2022 at 9:12 am

                   ‘

                   "Vote with your feet (or eyes in this case)."

                   Belladonna

                   With the wall to wall coverage, hard to do in this case.

                   And I sure Belladonna that you, and probably everyone you know, would have watched at least some of it.

                   And even if you didn't, you would still have been aware of the massive Stan-dom being generated by this wall to wall coverage and hype.

                   But let's say, for arguments sake, you did the opposite to what you advocate, and didn't boycott the mainstream media.

                   The climate disaster and resulting deaths of ordinary people in Pakistan unfolding in front of our eyes removed from in front of our eyes, replaced with wall to wall coverage of the death of one, very white, very rich, very old lady.

                   You would have to be a hermit living in a cave to not be aware of the Queen's death. But you could easily be unaware of the climate catastrophe in Pakistan. Which is still ongoing, with little relief for the people caught in it.

                   Royal pageantry and ritual is the original and oldest way of generating Stan Culture. As Juvenal said give them circuses to keep the people diverted from public policy and civic duty.

                   "Bread and circuses"

                   …. is attributed to a poet active in the late first and early second century CE, and is used commonly in cultural, particularly political, contexts.

                   ….. the phrase means to generate public approval, not by excellence in public service or public policy, but by diversion, distraction,

                   …..The phrase implies a population's erosion or ignorance of civic duty as a [political] priority....

                   The Queen's greatest public service, for which she has been heaped endless praise and honours, has been to rehabilitate the reputation of imperialism and colonialism.

                   King Charles will be allowed to continue his mother's work and carry out his main political duty to white wash imperialism.

                   But Charles Windsor the former Prince of Wales has been reminded (more than once) of his civic duty, now that he is King, not to agitate on climate change and to concentrate on his main role.

                   ……environmental campaigners will be watching closely to see if he continues to advocate for climate action and is able to help drive change as monarch.

                   In his first speech to the nation as monarch on Friday evening, Charles warned his new role will now limit his activism.

                   "It will no longer be possible for me to give so much of my time and energies to the charities and issues for which I care so deeply," he said in a televised address. "But I know this important work will go on in the trusted hands of others.”

                   https://news.trust.org/item/20220909094629-dli0s/

                   Unfortunately all the gold braid and pageantry in the world will not save us, or our King.

                   [You failed to provide the link to Wikipedia for your quote on “Bread and circuses”.

                   You changed the quoted text (aka butchered it) in a way that was not clear and this only became clear by going to the original text.

                   This may not seem a big deal, this time, even relatively harmless, but this apparent clumsiness with selective quoting, altering text, removing context, et cetera, is often used as a tool for influencing and manipulating.

                   When you quote we have to trust you that your quote is a perfect representation (aka copy & paste) of the original text and an accurate representation of the meaning/message. Please lift your game – Incognito]
                   • Incognito …

                     24 September 2022 at 10:37 am

                     Mod note
                   • Belladonna …

                     24 September 2022 at 1:09 pm

                     Not really hard to avoid at all.
                     I chose to stay up and watch the actual funeral coverage (I happen to like old buildings, pageantry and church music)
                     But it was a deliberate choice – it was hardly in prime time viewing (from about 10pm onwards).

                     And haven't paid attention to any other coverage subsequently. I read the papers online, and simply choose not to read any of the articles. And, in common with the majority of Kiwis under 60, I don’t watch TV news – and catch up with any programmes on demand (i.e I choose what to watch and when to watch it)
                     It hasn't been hard.

                     Disasters in Pakistan would still not have had high profile coverage in NZ – regardless of any royal pageantry. Our media is fairly parochial – and those of us with wider interests know that we have to supplement them from overseas.

                     Luckily, in this modern age, this is relatively easy to do.

                     Your complaint about saturation coverage might have had validity in the 1950s (King George VI's funeral and Elizabeth's coronation) – when there were few (if any) media alternatives in NZ – the local paper and the TV channel were the sum total. These days – people's consumption of media comes from so many sources that it's virtually impossible to achieve the slanted presentation that you appear to believe is the secret plan of the British monarchy.

                     I can assure you, that the coverage of the Kardashians, Johnny Depp and Roger Federer continues unabated (based on a quick sample of my newsfeeds this morning). All continuing to suck media attention away from Pakistan, Ukraine & climate change. Why are those circuses (without even bread) not a target for your ire?
   • Blazer 1.2

     23 September 2022 at 8:04 am

     It says alot about you.

     Trying to beat up a story where none exists.
     • Jenny are we there yet 1.2.1

       23 September 2022 at 9:17 am

       '

       "Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it"

       George Santayana

       If the government passed legislation that at the next significant anniversary of the Christchurch massacre a one off national day of reflection on the causes of this tragedy, it would be sign of our maturity as a nation.

       We commemorate the war dead of the First and Second World Wars. We don't commemorate the war dead of the New Zealand Wars.

       We condemn German and Japanese fascism but we don’t condemn British imperialism or colonialism.

       Because alongside our culture of remembering and commemorating historical events, we have another culture of forgetting historical events that we don't want to remember.

       I have heard a number of commentators saying that the death and life of the Queen of England will be remembered for ever in history. They are probably right.

       How about this: Heeding George Santayana's caution, taking the precedent of a one off day to remember and reflect on life and death of the British Monarch. the government legislate; That at the next anniversary milestone of the Christchurch massacre a one off day stoppage will be called to reflect on this terrible tragedy committed in our midst, to learn and never forget, so that such a thing is never repeated.

       https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57322/for-the-fallen
   • mikesh 1.3

     23 September 2022 at 8:12 am

     Do you think we needed to have assassinated the queen before we were entitled to a day off?
     • Jenny are we there yet 1.3.1

       23 September 2022 at 9:23 am

       Now that would’ve been an event worth commemorating with a day off. [Sarc.]
   • SPC 1.4

     23 September 2022 at 1:04 pm

     We're just following the practice of others – to commemorate the end of an era of a head of state. These are (normative) national occasions.

     The argument for the utility of another memorial is a separate matter – and there was a planned one (annual, pandemic impacted).
     • Jenny are we there yet 1.4.1

       23 September 2022 at 7:02 pm

       '

       "We're just following the practice of others…."

       SPC

       We should all be heartilly sick of being global followers. John Key wanted us to be 'Fast Followers' It's time we stopped being followers and started being leaders. I have long supported calls for this country to be a global leader, in social in climate justice and peace issues.

       .https://thestandard.org.nz/our-plan-to-change-the-government/#comment-1183829

       P.S. It was very heartening to see on TV1 News tonight that New Zealand will be taking a global lead on dealing with plastic waste, especially encouraging are moves to sheet the responsibility back to the big plastic polluters at the point of production instead of the public at the point of consumption. Something I have long argued was sorely needed
2. bwaghorn 2

   23 September 2022 at 6:53 am

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/129960960/50000-people-may-need-to-lose-their-jobs-to-bring-inflation-under-control

   Maybe the cold hearted zolner lady needs to go and come up with a better plan than fucking people lives to lower inflation
   • DB Brown 2.1

     23 September 2022 at 7:11 am

     Yeah I saw this. These economists and their banking buddies are worse than useless, they're detrimental to society.

     The plan here is to make many people poor so they can't afford to participate in society. This will in turn reduce demand for goods so prices drop and rich people can get cheaper goods.

     We could have put ceilings on corporate profitability – the prices got jacked by corporations, not consumers. We could have retrospectively hit them with windfall taxes, of course we have not.

     They blame supply and demand. They blame employment figures. They blame subprime mortgages, wars, pandemics, markets – anything but the truth of bank and corporate roles in society today – to take everything they can get their grubby hands on.

     Yesterday, after widespread advertising for stories of supermarket profit gouging, I noticed several exorbitant prices have suddenly shrunk overnight. Flax meal, tahini, dried fruit, nuts, seeds, vegan mayo – all came down significantly since the last shop… Almost like they've been taking the absolute piss.

     These people are a fucking disgrace. But just try stop the profit gouging – communism!
     • dv 2.1.1

       23 September 2022 at 8:14 am

       Banks have taken 30$ per week in PROFIT from every person in NZ
       • DB Brown 2.1.1.1

         23 September 2022 at 8:27 am

         Can you link to where that figure came from? Sounds excessive…
       • Blazer 2.1.1.2

         23 September 2022 at 8:33 am

         It's more like $22 per person…..x52 x5million.
         • dv 2.1.1.2.1

           23 September 2022 at 8:39 am

           Last quarter 1.74 billion profit / 5 mill in 12 weeks

           Is 29$
       • Barfly 2.1.1.3

         23 September 2022 at 8:51 am

         That's $7.8 billion in bank profits per annum I think they are about $6 billion altogether so that would be $23 per week from every person in NZ

         Ouch
   • Nic the NZer 2.2

     23 September 2022 at 7:40 am

     Don't shoot the messenger, wags. Thats just a more or less plain english description of what the RBNZ is planning to achieve via monetary policy.
     • bwaghorn 2.2.1

       23 September 2022 at 8:32 am

       The messenger is part of the establishment, so fuck im ,fire at will!!
   • Blazer 2.3

     23 September 2022 at 8:06 am

     'been spending most of life….living in a banksters….paradise'!
     • bwaghorn 2.3.1

       23 September 2022 at 9:12 am

       "THERE HAS GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY "

       the profit Lenny Kravitz I believe
   • mikesh 2.4

     23 September 2022 at 8:17 am

     I think, in general, that jobs might be lost if people demanded higher wages to compensate for the inflation. That would seem to be the theory.
     • bwaghorn 2.4.1

       23 September 2022 at 8:35 am

       Belive me I'm less than pleased that just when I finally got into a wage bracket that I thought might give me a chance of getting some security for my future, just got gobbled by the inflation monster, but I don't want 50,000 extra people on the dole to fix it for me.
       • Jimmy 2.4.1.1

         23 September 2022 at 9:33 am

         Now that you have received an increase in income, do you feel that you are better off than before?
         • bwaghorn 2.4.1.1.1

           23 September 2022 at 9:42 am

           Yes but inflation has nicked a decent chunk of it, and no I don't think it's 'cindys' fault if that's where you going jimmy old boy.
           • Jimmy 2.4.1.1.1.1

             23 September 2022 at 10:31 am

             No wasn't 'going there at all'. A large portion of the inflation is beyond NZ's control and would not matter who was in government.

             Some though is definitely due to the reserve bank.
             I genuinely think that making ends meet and affording petrol, groceries, mortgage and rent payments are the biggest and most immediate concern to many NZers. Many people have had pay increases this year (and it is a good time to ask the boss for a rise), but I think it will really tighten up next year with many companies unable to afford to give further pay increases.
             • KJT …

               23 September 2022 at 10:35 am

               As NZ inflation is mostly less than our trading partners.

               No. It is not due to the reserve bank.

               Except, of course for the house price inflation over the last several decades, Which is due to tax policy since the 90's, lack of curbs on foriegn "investment" and imported cheap labour numbers.
               • Poission …

                 23 September 2022 at 11:06 am

                 NZ inflation is greater then all our trading partners except the Americas and Europe.

                 The NZ $/US$ of which all trade is realized to include Freight and insurance has depreciated 14.4% YTD,

                 Our current account is 7.1% of gdp and is nearing the worst it has been,our debt loading is increasing as is government debt and with an increasing interest bill on sovereign debt doubling over the next 2 years.

                 High interest rates are here to stay,the days of easy money are gone,and can only be dampened when core inflation ( shelter,utilities and service inflation) reduces.
                 • Nic the NZer …

                   23 September 2022 at 11:38 am

                   Nah, if there is such a concern of govt spending impacting interest rates then there will be a quiet conversation between Orr and Robertson (in a smoke filled room), followed by another round of QE and the govt owning more of its own debt.

                   If the RBNZ wanted interest rates at zero it could of course lower the OCR just as it has raised it recently.

                   This means sweet FA, but may well send you into a commenting frenzy.
                   • Poission …

                     23 September 2022 at 11:57 am

                     The RBNZ balance sheet has increased around 7 billion since march,the so called QT has not happened as the RBNZ lent at OCR rates to Banks ( 12 billion to xmas)

                     https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/series/reserve-bank/our-balance-sheet

                     The Australian RBA took a hit removing all equity for a 36b loss on the effects of QE .

                     https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/21/australias-central-bank-has-equity-wiped-out-by-billions-in-bond-losses.html

                     NZ debt is firmly in the hands of the kindness of strangers very similar to the UK were debt rates go through the roof.

                     Nabarro at Citi said the changes in the markets will not have escaped the BoE's Monetary Policy Committee which will see declining investor confidence in British assets as an unwelcome complication in its fight against inflation and could leave interest rates higher for longer.

                     "We suspect at least some on the committee have observed the simultaneous sell-off in sterling and gilts with no small degree of concern," Nabarro said. "In our view, these risks should increasingly be at the centre of the UK policy discussion."

                     https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/suspicious-minds-leave-uk-assets-all-shook-up-2022-09-14/
                 • Nic the NZer …

                   23 September 2022 at 12:30 pm

                   The only entity which can bankrupt a central bank is its legislature. This makes the question of central bank profit, loss and equity completely irrelevant. Unlike most entities, negative equity has zero impact on central banks ability to function.

                   Of course the way Citi bank talks about policy is in those terms because this is just the common language for "we recon the BofE should keep bumping interest rates up" (which co-incidentally helps Citi's profits). But, as Japans central bank policy is highlighting, alternate policies can equally be pursued at their discretion, including to lower interest rates.
                   • Poission …

                     23 September 2022 at 12:38 pm

                     Japan has 2 trillion in foreign exchange sitting in overseas banks,earning increasing interest payments.Its offshore investments outweigh its onshore foreign liabilities,this weak its 10 yr bond did not trade for 3 days.

                     The RBA decreased the ability to raise funds to protect its currency or Interest rates it de levered.
                   • Nic the NZer []

                     23 September 2022 at 1:28 pm

                     Sure, the RBA probably did for some combination of those reasons. But for some reason you didn't put it that way instead focusing on the "cost" of economic policy as if the RBA has any need to earn profits.

                     And regarding the BoJ (or other central banks) we can only evaluate any external limitations to its policy when they visibly buck market expectations and considering how that works. Highlighting foreign exchange reserves on a balance sheet is about as credible as the old story that, Japans long history of avoiding inflation while running QE for decades, was due to Japanese house wives saving rates.

                     Obviously when we consider some of the actual outcomes of RBNZ policy (e.g maybe 50,000 additional unemployed) some people are proposing its time to actually run some of the experiments and see how these theories stack up. Frankly if the NZ exchange rate fluctuates 2% off US inflation coming in low (but somehow also above market expectations), we could maybe focus on the economic policy bits we can actually control.
                   • Poission …

                     23 September 2022 at 1:45 pm

                     The Japanese household saving rate in July (last data) was 37.7% of disposable income..

                     With unemployment and some model showing 50k,would it not be better to reduce immigration,( which is a similar number) or would there be just a pool of unemployable.

                     Jobs full time positions increased by 7000 in the week ending 14/8.When the data reflects a decrease in value,the first affects will be in the service industry which it seems is not affected.

                     https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/employment-indicators-weekly-as-at-19-september-2022/
                   • Nic the NZer …

                     23 September 2022 at 2:54 pm

                     Sure, maintaining the lower immigration rate does seem to be having some positive outcomes for NZ.

                     As far as RBNZ policy implementation goes, their official policy position of running a raised cash rate, is supposed to flow through to the economy via elevated unemployment. AFAIK their expectations should be that domestic inflation will not decrease without the extra 50,000 unemployed. But this seems to have changed since they were initially just saying the country would need to accept the transitory (e.g. supply side) inflation and spread its burden fairly until it abated.
                 • pat …

                   23 September 2022 at 12:44 pm

                   The fundamental question appears unstated….what can the NZD provide?

                   The answer is very little…. and even less if it is undesired offshore.
                   • Poission …

                     23 September 2022 at 12:51 pm

                     A low nz$ makes assets very cheap,especially rural land.
                   • pat …

                     23 September 2022 at 12:57 pm

                     And inputs expensive…and it is all relative as your 'trading partner inflation rate' comment indicates.

                     A major issue is our exchange rate volatility….it makes long term investment decisions problematic…who will (either onshore or off) commit capital when any decision can be rendered a loser with a currency swing such as we have been subjected to the past 40 years?…a low of 0.39 to near parity with the world default trading currency and widly variable in between.
                   • Poission …

                     23 September 2022 at 1:23 pm

                     True,some will have local substitution possibilities such as cereal imported from Aus,where a new bulker on the coast will make shipping competitive SI-NI,cheaper then oz-nz. (up 70m in August)
                 • KJT …

                   24 September 2022 at 3:14 am

                   So. Most of them. As I said.
                   • Poission …

                     24 September 2022 at 9:03 am

                     No .not by price or volume.

                     https://www.worldstopexports.com/new-zealands-top-trade-partners/
                   • KJT …

                     24 September 2022 at 9:38 am

                     Trading partners are not only "exports".

                     From your own link. Which is about export reciepts.

                     "New Zealand incurred the highest trade deficits with the following countries.

                     1. Germany: -US$1.8 billion (country-specific trade deficit in 2021)
                     2. Thailand: -$1.5 billion
                     3. United Arab Emirates: -$1.3 billion
                     4. Germany: -$1.2 billion
                     5. Italy: -$947.5 million
                     6. South Korea: -$818.2 million
                     7. Australia: -$649.3 million
                     8. Japan: -$647.8 million
                     9. France: -$627.6 million
                     10. Malaysia: -$608.3 million"

                     Imported inflation comes from imports and services supplied from overseas, does it not?
                   • KJT …

                     24 September 2022 at 9:43 am

                     Global inflation tracker: see how your country compares on rising prices | Financial Times (ft.com)

                     
                   • Poission …

                     24 September 2022 at 10:04 am

                     Of the top 10 import countries into NZ,only the US and Germany have higher inflation rates.

                     The largest increases in cost are actually freight rates,insurance etc,with import values include CIF, which are now starting to contract.

                     The argument was not all our trading partners have high inflation,which excluding the Americas and Europe (excluding switzerland) they do not.
   • Mac1 2.5

     23 September 2022 at 8:58 am

     President of France Jacques Chirac knew in 1996. Hs told the ILO that the economy serves the people and not the other way round.

     https://www.ilo.org/global/about-the-ilo/newsroom/news/WCMS_008059/lang–en/index.htm

     How much further away from a notion of a decent society is that 5% of the people should be unemployed so that others may prosper. This latest advocate talks of a necessary pain. One Mark Lister gives away the mantle of altruism to the unemployed when he would better serve us and himself by trying a little altruism in his own life.

     “You’ve got to cause some pain. You’ve
     got to create some unemployment” he said. Marlborough Express Sept 23 2022 page 7 Business section

     Anybody's pain but mine…….
     • bwaghorn 2.5.1

       23 September 2022 at 9:13 am

       What a truly ugly man
       • Mac1 2.5.1.1

         23 September 2022 at 9:35 am

         Have these people not twigged the inherent stupidity of their version of an economy where it is argued that we need more workers and also we need more unemployment?
     • Sabine 2.5.2

       23 September 2022 at 10:38 am

       Locally in Rotorua its 11%. – per the pre election report from the current Rotorua council.

       5%unemployment in Rotorua currently would be awesome.
     • Patricia Bremner 2.5.3

       23 September 2022 at 1:54 pm

       Shift the pain and 50 thousand pawns, play the blame game!!!
   • Barfly 2.6

     23 September 2022 at 9:02 am

     Will somebody please ask Luxon for his 'wisdom' on this.
     • Patricia Bremner 2.6.1

       23 September 2022 at 8:56 pm

       Wisdom? Best laugh of the day Barfly!! Opinion yes… Wisdom lol, no!! He will lead with his arrogant chin.
   • DB Brown 2.7

     23 September 2022 at 9:24 am

     Here's an interesting take on this:

     Which 50 000 has to go?

     If it's supply and demand issues, then we must get rid of the useless from the workforce, not the actual workers who produce the supply! Anything else would be madness. We know who is essential now (we've always known), the people who actually keep the lights on.

     But there are others:

     Economists are clearly useless, how many of them are there?

     There's bound to be plenty of middle management playing paper-go-round in plenty of places.

     Who must go?
     • Belladonna 2.7.1

       23 September 2022 at 9:35 am

       Reminds me of the Douglas Adams Golgafrinchams

       https://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/golgafrincham.shtml
     • Mac1 2.7.2

       23 September 2022 at 9:38 am

       We do know that the social value of a banker is negative but hospital cleaners add x15 the value of their salary.

       https://www.theguardian.com/business/2009/dec/14/new-economics-foundation-social-value
   • SPC 2.8

     23 September 2022 at 12:58 pm

     Economists are funny, one day they say we need more unemployment to reduce inflation BUT the next day they say the economy lacks workers and we need more migration.

     These two things are not coherent. They and their neo-liberal school are out of their depth in the real world 2022.

     I'll note that when Muldoon was PM 1976-1981 there was 5 years of wage growth/inflation during which house prices flatlined and fell in real terms.

     Inflation reduces the real value of assets (which one can note are overvalued) and debt (good for coming out of the QE debt of the GFC and pandemic). Containing inflation by holding down wages merely to preserve the asset wealth of a privileged elite (after a period of extreme inequality) is risible.

     RBG's applying neo-liberal policy are going to risk populist pressure to the democratic fabric in way not seen since the 1930's.
     • bwaghorn 2.8.1

       23 September 2022 at 7:01 pm

       You can have both national proved that I believe last time , flood the country with cheep foreign labour ,have kiwis on the dole , added bonus is a bigger target for right wingers to hate on.
       • SPC 2.8.1.1

         23 September 2022 at 8:40 pm

         … they'll allow prison for profit growth to manage homelessness (known as three strikes and clearances for urban renewal in the USA and here to manage the lack of housing).
     • KJT 2.8.2

       24 September 2022 at 9:51 am

       one day they say we need more unemployment to reduce inflation BUT the next day they say the economy lacks workers and we need more migration.

       That is actually coherent. More imported cheap labour = in their minds, more unemployed, less wage rises and less inflation.

       The idea that you fight inflation by driving down wage price pressure regardless of other factors.

       Obviously it means workers, and unemployed pay all the coats of reducing inflation. But we can't have banks and assett/housing speculators taking the pain instead, can we??
       • pat 2.8.2.1

         24 September 2022 at 10:06 am

         All the costs???

         Both will take the hit…a consequence of the interest rate hikes is asset depreciation. (or revaluation)
         • Poission 2.8.2.1.1

           24 September 2022 at 10:15 am

           Wealth destruction,global sharemarkets 25 trillion ytd,Crypto 2 trillion,Housing will be big here as the half billion pumped bubble implodes.

           https://edition.cnn.com/markets/fear-and-greed
         • KJT 2.8.2.1.2

           24 September 2022 at 5:27 pm

           Why do you think, speculators and banks are so keen on wages taking the hit to contain inflation?

           So they don't, of course!
       • SPC 2.8.2.2

         24 September 2022 at 1:45 pm

         I would argue the stimulus from population growth (more migrants) would in fact increase demand/inflation.
   • Jilly Bee 2.9

     23 September 2022 at 2:05 pm

     Hubby and I banked with ANZ – well firstly the National Bank, for 55 years. We told them where to go 3 years ago and moved to Kiwibank. We'd had enough of their utterings from John Key and the CEO in Melbourne (who I believe is a Kiwi) who threatened to close the N Z division down. I guess he was bluffing, but sheesh, what a tosser. Sharon Zollner also needs to pull her head in, but of course the unemployment subject is a favourite among such pointy heads who wouldn't be at all affected by such a move. Just don't get me going on the report in the Herald today about the Mood of the Boardroom
     • Patricia Bremner 2.9.1

       23 September 2022 at 9:02 pm

       Exactly Jilly Bee.
     • Anne 2.9.2

       23 September 2022 at 9:15 pm

       
3. Grey Area 3

   23 September 2022 at 7:01 am

   The Former Guy claims he declassified the documents he removed from the White House just by thinking about it. We didn't know he has the amazing superpower of teledeclassification.

   https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/9/22/2124549/-Donald-Trump-claims-he-declassified-documents-by-thinking-about-it-but-that-s-not-the-worst-thing
   • Tiger Mountain 3.1

     23 September 2022 at 9:20 am

     Plotting, scheming, embezzling, gouging, dodging, lying, bullying–all skills Mr Mango Mussolini has amply demonstrated–but thinking? is a stretch.

     In a fairer world Mr Trump would have been locked up years ago, but the US political establishment really has not chosen its battles with the ex President wisely at all.
   • Bearded Git 3.2

     23 September 2022 at 1:12 pm

     Donald who?
   • joe90 3.3

     23 September 2022 at 2:24 pm

     He's not a well man.

     https://twitter.com/ZTPetrizzo/status/1573012229661810694
4. AB 4

   23 September 2022 at 12:14 pm

   New Zealand's very own Fox News, the NZ Herald, running their annual hit job on the left today. It is laughably titled, "The Mood of the Boardroom" – a name so suffused with fake gravitas it can only have come from the ponderously dull Fran O'Sullivan. The conclusion of 90 CEOs and 18 Directors is that this is the worst government since Muldoon. Yawn – rich, powerful private sector interests wanting the playing field tipped in their favour, and completely without irony, equating that with good economic management.
   • SPC 4.1

     23 September 2022 at 12:35 pm

     The winter of discontent team leader (2000) also ran an ad/editorial demanding New Zealand voters prevent a Labour-Green government (2005). Must have been so sad there when one law for all, across the board tax cuts (less money for poor families), keep interest on tertiary loans Don Brash was defeated

     (Winston Peters kept his word to go with the party with more votes – Labour)(but in its way NZH represents the Koch brothers denial of need for global warming action and maintenance of a neo-liberal global regime)
   • Bearded Git 4.2

     23 September 2022 at 2:11 pm

     The government must be doing something right then.
   • Anne 4.3

     23 September 2022 at 3:44 pm

     Yep, and one of the Herald and ZB adherents – who also happens to be a relative – told me yesterday we have a Communist government and its going to go next year before we are all destroyed.

     Does anyone know where I can locate a membership form for the VFF crowd so I can send it to her? Or the Brash crowd will do – Hobson's Choice they call themselves? 😛
     • Shanreagh 4.3.1

       23 September 2022 at 5:00 pm

       But, but, but if we have a Communist Government it is headed by a 'pretty little communist' isn't it and that must count for something surely. I mean better a pretty little communist than some idiot riding a bear? Your relative should thank their lucky stars. I didn't see the man on the bear being pressed to speak at the UN or being invited to the Queen's funeral.

       I know the 'pretty little comm' is correct as I read it on a poster on the tractors and trucks in the Groundswill protest. And farmers know everything don't they? Those ones do anyway.

       Perhaps get a membership form for Groundswell too so she can feel the faint pulse of this crowd from the rural sector. They are not supported by the majority of rural dwellers that I can see so should be a good match for VFF & Brash's rush of blood to the head group.

       
       • Anne 4.3.1.1

         23 September 2022 at 5:55 pm

         Actually I think it is the "pretty little communist:" who started it cos the plc is very attractive and intelligent and she's younger and oh so popular with her overseas peers.

         Its called jealousy and afflicts a lot of women. HDPA is another example.
         • Shanreagh 4.3.1.1.1

           23 September 2022 at 6:11 pm

           Yes indeed.
   • rod 4.4

     23 September 2022 at 4:59 pm

     The Mood of the Boardroom in the Herald is just more right wing propaganda. Plenty more to come daily from Ganny Herald folks.
   • Finn McCool 4.5

     24 September 2022 at 8:26 am

     As a swing voter looking for excuses to stay with Labour, I'm finding it harder by the day. This so called '' hit job'' on Labour was in reality a reflection of what many voting people are pondering. Grant Robertson taking at hit in the ratings should be ringing alarm bells. He has generally until now been well tolerated by the opposition and general public. For me there were some surprises in the survey. Co-governance having some support for example. Labour has been given fair warning. They can continue to flip off such findings as the deluded rantings of rich white boys wanting more bucks in their pockets, or they can cross reference this survey with public opinion polls, gain a reality check, and do something about it.
5. SPC 5

   23 September 2022 at 12:29 pm

   25-26% of rain forest loss …

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIdwf717p0w
6. SPC 6

   23 September 2022 at 2:22 pm

   A study on Vitamin D levels and health outcomes.

   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8541492/
   • swordfish 6.1

     23 September 2022 at 4:21 pm

     .

     Blimey ! You appear to be the first tragically-smug Woke dogmatist here to conspicuously break ranks from the well-rehearsed narrative that Vitamin D is all part of some Far Right Trumpist conspiracy theory to deliberately perplex the hoi polloi who lack the "unusually refined moral & intellectual sensibilities" of those wannabe elites trapped in your stifling little echo-chamber.

     How did dear old muttonbird put it, again ? … oh yes:

     The conspiracy theorists will be disappointed, Anne. Perhaps drowning their sorrows with horse-paste and Vitamin D cocktails under tin foil umbrellas.

     https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-03-08-2022/#comment-1903527
     • SPC 6.1.1

       23 September 2022 at 4:58 pm

       I was posting John Campbell on this back in 2020. and also on old fashioned “aspiration” in vaccination.
     • Nic the NZer 6.1.2

       23 September 2022 at 11:18 pm

       The only reason I take my vitamins is when instructed by my partner, and I don't think they are doing anything either.

       I will now compare myself to Niels Bohr.

       https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/magic-shows/miscellany/niels-bohrs-lucky-horseshoe
   • Belladonna 6.2

     23 September 2022 at 4:42 pm

     Meanwhile the Medical Council of NZ says that Vitamin D supplementation is not required, except in some very specific population categories:

     Supplementation is not recommended for the general population, but it can be considered for individuals from groups at risk of vitamin D deficiency.

     At-risk groups are identified in this guidance: people with deeply pigmented skin, especially those who wear full-body coverage clothing; people who actively avoid sun exposure; people with low mobility who are frail or housebound; people in southern regions who spend a limited amount of time outdoors; and people with certain medical disorders (eg, kidney failure, malabsorption syndromes).

     Unlike the Northern Hemisphere, Kiwis in general get enough sun exposure to ensure our levels are well within the healthy range.

     Vitamin D prescription in NZ doesn't correlate with a reduction in the known medical consequences of low rates (rickets, etc). And is no longer prescribed for prevention of osteoporisis (no clinical benefit). It seems as though most prescriptions are to the 'worried well'

     Collectively, these findings suggest that the supplementation of vitamin D in New Zealand needs to change. Although vitamin D supplements are inexpensive to prescribe to an individual, their widespread use creates substantial costs for the health system and individual patients, and there is no clear clinical benefit from this expenditure.

     https://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal-articles/vitamin-d-deficiency-supplementation-and-testing-have-we-got-it-right-in-new-zealand
7. Ad 7

   23 September 2022 at 2:32 pm

   Has anyone seen this rating of each Auckland Councillor?

   Rating every Auckland councillor: Bernard Orsman and Simon Wilson give their verdicts – NZ Herald
   • Belladonna 7.1

     23 September 2022 at 4:44 pm

     It's Herald Premium content – but Aucklander's with a library card should be able to view it using Press Reader, through the library website.
   • Belladonna 7.2

     23 September 2022 at 4:44 pm

     I think this is absolutely accurate

     Now, deep in the third Covid year, we're all tired and grumpy and looking for someone to blame.
8. Stuart Munro 8

   23 September 2022 at 3:45 pm

   CEOs give the govt. a fail report card. 'Wost Govt since Muldoon': Ardern, Robertson blasted by business leaders in CEO survey (msn.com)

   Even from the title the illiteracy of said CEOs suggests their opinion is less than bankable.
   • Shanreagh 8.1

     23 September 2022 at 5:03 pm

     Yes just get woser and woser really.

     
   • Bearded Git 8.2

     23 September 2022 at 5:12 pm

     Stuart-listen to this afternoon's The Panel on RNZ. Fran O'Sullivan got a roasting, got pissed off and basically fell apart when questioned by Panel members about the Mood of the Boardroom survey.

     Here it is:
     https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018859987
     • Blazer 8.2.1

       23 September 2022 at 5:46 pm

       Fran O….ex NBR…now with NZ Herald ….is so biased it's hard to take her…seriously.
       • Stuart Munro 8.2.1.1

         23 September 2022 at 6:23 pm

         I'm going to differ with you there. Fran is a damned good journalist when she sets her mind to it. I'll grant you, that may be less than half the time, but she knocks sad idiot panel hacks out of the park from time to time. It's just that she spends too much time rubbing elbows with CEOs to be a full-on Blomkvist.
     • pat 8.2.2

       23 September 2022 at 5:59 pm

       "Fran O'Sullivan got a roasting, got pissed off and basically fell apart when questioned by Panel members about the Mood of the Boardroom survey."

       Think we must have listened to a different panel discussion
       • Bearded Git 8.2.2.1

         24 September 2022 at 9:51 am

         Perhaps Shanreagh and Anne describe it better below, but I stand by the fact that O'Sullivan was very unimpressive, mostly because she was defending the indefensible because the Mood of the Boardroom survey is wrong to attack the performance of this government.
     • Shanreagh 8.2.3

       23 September 2022 at 6:06 pm

       From about 10.00 in. But, but, splutter is a good summary of Fran's response to some of Simon Wilson's questions…she quickly switched to saying it was a snapshot of a mood and overseas there was inflation that the CE's were reflecting on.

       Most unimpressive but then these are not a group given to self reflection or acknowledgement that we have faced tough times. She did not seem to have an answer to the query about pushback on paying workers more being a way to lift people out of poverty……something that the CE's group are ostensibly concerned about.

       The group does not include large NGOs
     • Anne 8.2.4

       23 September 2022 at 6:56 pm

       The best response was made by Wallace Chapman when he pointed out that the report did not acknowledge the fact this government had been through a major pandemic that no other government in NZ has had to grapple with, and was able to bring NZ through in far better shape than most other countries.

       I note Fran O'Sullivan immediately changed tack and pointed out that the pandemic emergency has passed, and the CEO's are concerned about what is happening now.

       I paraphrase both responses.

       Surely what is happening now is a direct consequence of that pandemic and the world wide disruptions etc. it created. All the blame cannot be laid at the feet of the government. It will take time to re-establish normality in all sections of society including the business sector, so it is disingenuous to pass judgement at this stage of the procedure.

       I gather also there was no mention of the impact being felt over the Russia/Ukraine conflict.
       • Shanreagh 8.2.4.1

         23 September 2022 at 9:23 pm

         Yes Anne, 'disingenuous' is a good word to describe the responses from the CEOs being discussed with Fran O'Sullivan.

         As well there have been thoughts that while the situation was 'fluid' we could generally have a look at whether we wanted to go back to BAU circa 2021 or if we could be 'nimble' and take the opportunities for change.

         NZ used to have a reputation for this nimbleness in days gone by not so long ago. Nimbleness is not a product of $$$$ or of handouts but of far-sightedness in business and brains working. Also adequate R & D and product and market investigation and investment.

         Perhaps the CEs have been struck down by a late arriving variant of the Moaning Minnie virus that my ‘research’ showed accompanied earlier Covid variants in the general population.

         This Covid virus has been long lasting, we have had to help those affected and so we have had to take time to deal with it. Some of the responses I have seen have built on the bull kaka that every country in the world except NZ has moved on. Partner is in the south of Italy travelling by public transport and says operators of public transport are fanatical about continued mask wearing on buses etc. NB NZ has no mask wearing restrictions on public transport.

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