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Open mike 23/01/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, January 23rd, 2015 - 213 comments
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213 comments on “Open mike 23/01/2015 ”

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  1. Heartbleeding Liberal 1
    23 January 2015 at 6:48 am

    Who is a greater threat to our civil liberties? The Le Pen’s of the world (as represented in the readership of various blogs), or the muslim guy living down the road?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1
      23 January 2015 at 8:18 am

      Neither.

      The threat to our civil liberties comes from those in positions of power.

      • vto 1.1.2
        23 January 2015 at 8:25 am

        Yes and the evidence for this is collosal;

        1. John Key legislating to spy on us, as recently as last year ….
        2. Many countries requiring ID to be carried and provided ….
        3. Reversing the burden of proof when charged by the state for a crime ….
        4. Ability to arrest and incarcerate without charge ….

        please add

      • Murray Rawshark 1.1.3
        23 January 2015 at 4:51 pm

        But the Le Pens are more likely to get into power. In fact, many of them already are in France and Ukraine. Unless you’re in a country with a Muslim majority, the Muslim guy down the road is nowhere near power.

    • Truth Will Out 1.2
      23 January 2015 at 11:10 am

      The greatest threat to our civil liberties are apathy and a lack of vigilance.

      This is driven by the failure of many people to take 100% personal responsibility for their lives, causing them to assume they have no power, leading them to confer power upon those who seek to have it over them.

      This is achieved by deifying those who seek such power, and imagining them to be superior human beings with special qualities, which they invariably are not, and do not have.

      All of which is driven by deep seated insecurity on the part of most people, secretly believing themselves to be powerless and worthless (as in “worth less than other people who have the appearance of greater material status”).

      The greatest danger we face in society is the degree to which people have given money the meaning and power it now has over us.

      In reality it is just money, but the meaning and the power we now imagine it to have has got us all addicted to it like methamphetamine or cocaine, to the degree that people will behave in obscene and inhuman ways to protect their sources and supplies of it.

      We have become dehumanised and desensitised to each other’s feelings, suffering, and needs because of our need to protect and maintain our income(s).

      Like gerbils on treadmills, we have to run faster and faster after the money dangled in front of us,increasingly unable to care about what is going on around us, in order to maintain our supply of it.

      We now do this at the cost of our sanity and health and relationships, in many, many cases.

      Such is the power and the meaning we have given every dollar.

      We treat people who drive expensive cars and live in expensive homes dramatically differently to the way we treat people who don’t.

      Our definitions of success are almost solely rooted in financial and material status, which in turn defines our social status in our hierarchies.

      All of these things combined are serving to weaken our civil liberties, because our obsession with the power we believe money gives us causes us to fear the loss of it to the degree that we will tolerate almost any inhumanity and/or indignity in order to maintain our supply of it.

      Even more so if such inhumanity and/or indignities are being inflicted upon other people.

      These observations make me neither left nor right.

      These observations make me human.

      • Crashcart 1.2.1
        23 January 2015 at 11:46 am

        Very well put. Power will remain with those who currently control the money as long as the majority firmly believe they have no power to change that.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1
          23 January 2015 at 5:17 pm

          Our entire socio-economic system has been designed to shift the power to those with money and to make others believe that they have no power to change it. This is helped be the fact that the representative governments do what the rich want and don’t listen to the people.

      • The Murphey 1.2.2
        23 January 2015 at 12:16 pm

        Excellent summation

        Imagination has left the human being via a combination of compliance and force

        Without imagination there will be no change to the status quo and the status quo controls ‘reality’ ergo controls imagination

  2. Heartbleeding Liberal 2
    23 January 2015 at 6:52 am

    I see that the herald is leading with the typical teacher-bashing bait that will get the relevant people frothing. They made sure to put the word “free” in quotations, to make sure the plebs know that it’s a crumb being thrown off the table.

    • Ergo Robertina 2.1
      23 January 2015 at 9:51 am

      The inverted commas merely highlight the angle of the story, the cost of NZ’s supposedly free education; in fact, it’s about as disingenuous a notion as your blatantly stirring comment, Heartbleeding Liberal.

  3. Heartbleeding Liberal 3
    23 January 2015 at 7:05 am

    “House Republican women and moderates are in an escalating battle against their leaders on an antiabortion bill slated to come to the floor Thursday, deepening a rift between centrists and conservatives who are at cross-purposes on which issues the party should be highlighting.

    The bill may still be tweaked, but Republican leaders are insistent they will move ahead with legislation banning abortions after 20 weeks, despite concerns from those within their conference that the bill might alienate millennials and female voters. But many female lawmakers are furious over its clause stating that women can be exempt from the ban in cases of rape only if they reported the rape to authorities. ”

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/gop-leaders-pull-abortion-bill-after-revolt-by-women-moderates-20150121

    • joe90 3.1
      23 January 2015 at 11:02 am

      meh

      Several news organizations reported last week that some Republican women, including Rep. Renee Ellmers, had objected to the clause requiring rape survivors to report to the police. But the same provision was in the 2013 version of the bill, which passed with all but six Republican members voting yes, including Elmers.>

      http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/white-house-signals-obama-will-veto-abortion-ban

      • joe90 3.1.1
        23 January 2015 at 11:16 am

        ddouble meh

        NWLC ‏@nwlc

        BREAKING: The House just passed a bill eliminating insurance coverage for abortion, barring many low-income women from #reprohealth care.

  4. North 4
    23 January 2015 at 7:23 am

    Misogyny Supremacists – The suppurating arrogance of the ‘rape’ clause beggars belief. “Bear your burden uncomplainingly woman !”

  5. phillip ure 5
    23 January 2015 at 7:27 am

    “..The Likely Cause of Addiction Has Been Discovered – and It Is Not What You Think..

    ..what I learned on the road is that almost everything we have been told about addiction is wrong –

    – and there is a very different story waiting for us –

    – if only we are ready to hear it..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

    • CnrJoe 5.1
      23 January 2015 at 8:33 am

      Thanks for the that phillip.
      Only Connect.

    • JanM 5.2
      23 January 2015 at 8:49 am

      good article – makes sense – our society has become so individualistic and competitive that trust and collegiality is difficult to come by and whereas we might have eliminated most of the things that used to eat us, we live in a much more dangerous world than our ancestors

    • Molly 5.3
      23 January 2015 at 11:36 am

      Author of the book referenced in the article was on Russell Brand’s – The Trews a couple of days ago.

      I personally think sometimes there is more than one answer, though the “cage” idea has merit, and the success of Portugal’s approach demonstrates the failure of the punitive approach to drugs.

      I do actually think that there is a genetic disposition for some to develop addictive behaviours, as well as there being some mental health issues that when unresolved will lead to people self-medicating with addictive substances or behaviours.

      • Crashcart 5.3.1
        23 January 2015 at 11:51 am

        Genetic is a dangerous idea. It gives the impression that someone was born that way and ther is nothing that can be done. research hows this to not be true and infact Genes turn on and off based upon environment. there as a great segment on this in the Zietgiest movie.

        • weka 5.3.1.1
          23 January 2015 at 12:16 pm

          I agree, but that doesn’t preclude genetic presdisposition (in general, I’m in two minds about what that means re addiction).

          • Crashcart 5.3.1.1.1
            23 January 2015 at 1:14 pm

            Exactly. As stated in the video there are somethings that can have a genetic componant but that in no way makes it preditermanate. As to addiction they specifically state that it is one that is far more attributal to environment and in particular stress on the mother during pregnancy. This could be why as we see the stresses applied to families by growing inequality increase we also see rates of addiction increase. That is of course supposition on my part and in no way the result of any research I have done.

            • Colonial Rawshark 5.3.1.1.1.1
              23 January 2015 at 6:59 pm

              Genes get turned on and off all the time. “Genetic determinism” is a dogma which is now decades out of date.

        • Molly 5.3.1.2
          23 January 2015 at 2:14 pm

          I thought genetics had recently identified some genes that predicate (not ensure) addictive behaviours.

          If your family does have this gene and is aware of it, they are more likely to avoid trying substances etc in the first place.

          If this has been debunked, then you are right – it is a point prone to abuse.

          However if it is true, then treatment for those unlucky enough to carry the gene may be more effective if it is designed around that perspective.

          Most often we look for one simple answer, or one catch all solution but when it comes to people and living organisms the diversity of life should show us that multiple solutions and approaches are the most effective way of dealing with problems.

      • Once wasTim 5.3.2
        23 January 2015 at 1:39 pm

        @ crash – the key word Jan uses is ‘disposition’ – or propensity or an enabler of the possibiity towards ….. whatever.
        In my case, I have various family members up and down the chain on one side of the family with some sort of switch that’s been turned on enabling them to choose addiction to drugs, alcohol/pot (and all plus gambling) …. you name it – violence even. On the other ‘side’, they’re right little angels all the way up and down that chain.
        The whole nature versus nurture thing has had me pondering it all for most of my life but I’m convinced there is a genetic switch that enables – but in a way that doesn’t compel – i.e. not compulsory – otherwise I can’t explain my existence.

        I’d be interested in Mr Ure’s opinions ekshully though I dare not ask because there’ll be a clamour of bs nastiness and ego-driven kaka – one that caused me to make a point of avoiding TS for a few days.
        (Oh, and I noticed doing a search by author of my last comment re Fletch of CSB fame – a few days back, that it apparently disappeared up its own arse – just as he should. As Little once put it “Cut the crap”. He DIDN’T resign for “family reasons”. He, ( being the sucker-of-dick-in-chief) crossed the line. A line of which future masters-of-the-Universe felt threatened by.

        Anyway – back to Ludditeville. Right now’ tis a very releckzing place to be ….. one where a human has time to consider things; where 24 hour news cycles are meaningless; where cellfone coverage is almost non-existent; where trees can grow and clean water can flow; where people propping up those in power who represent the closest thing we’ve seen since the last war to fascism are absent; where trains pass by from time-to-time carrying the loads of several dozen rigs whose drivers probably idolise Phil Stein but who in reality are part of the precariat should they have to cash up (a wishin and a hopin, stand by your man – and all that sort of shit); and best of all where E-spinners, Fergussons, Christies … (in fact half of TVNZ, most of Fearfucks and the self-appointed ‘in crowd’) would be screaming mummy mummy come rescue me. There’s also no hospital – or even a primary care establishment that’s capable of surgically removing electronics from robotic life forms.
        Paradise! (It isn’t Davos btw)

        • Murray Rawshark 5.3.2.1
          23 January 2015 at 6:27 pm

          You could ask for my opinion. I was a good mate of Baine’s for a while and my ego wouldn’t get in the road.

    • Murray Rawshark 5.4
      23 January 2015 at 4:58 pm

      I don’t even know why we should worry about substance addiction. Addictions can be managed and the negative effects are usually tied up with illegality anyway. I reckon if people want to be addicted to something, good luck to them. Currency and property speculators on the other hand have an addiction which damages the whole of society.

      • phillip ure 5.4.1
        23 January 2015 at 5:12 pm

        as far as heroin is concerned..there is also the age-factor..

        ..’cos what i have found..is that most heroin addicts kick in their mid-thirties..

        ..and i dunno why that is..other imperatives kick in..(with me it was having to raise a daughter on my own..and being unable to discharge both responsibilities at the same time…so..in a way..she saved my life..)

        ..there is also the fact that you get sick of the lifestyle..(being a junkie really is a full-time job..and most tire of it..)

        ..so my harm-reduction prescription for young heroin addicts..

        ..is for them able to register..to be supplied/maintained with medical-grade narcotics..(most of the physical harm done to junkies is from adulterants in the blackmarket products..most overdoses are a result of the vagaries of blackmarket-priduct quality..)

        ..until that time that they themselves decide to wean off..

        ..currently we have the blackmarket..and the only other option that brain-screwing vile-muck methadone..(a drug more addictive/harder to kick than heroin..duh..!..eh..?..so much so that for most who go on it..methadone is a life-sentence..double-duh..!..eh..?..)

        ..we are doing everything the wrong way..

      • weka 5.4.2
        23 January 2015 at 5:41 pm

        “I don’t even know why we should worry about substance addiction. Addictions can be managed and the negative effects are usually tied up with illegality anyway”

        Substance abuse can be pretty hard on the body/health, although you are probably right about the negative effects in that some of that would be mitigated if drugs weren’t illegal and were available with medical support.

        • Murray Rawshark 5.4.2.1
          23 January 2015 at 6:30 pm

          Using street rubbish, spending your money on drugs instead of food and rent, getting bashed by ngati poaka, and imprisoned on a regular basis is pretty hard on the body/health.

          • weka 5.4.2.1.1
            23 January 2015 at 7:55 pm

            “Using street rubbish, spending your money on drugs instead of food and rent, getting bashed by ngati poaka, and imprisoned on a regular basis is pretty hard on the body/health.”

            True, but solve all those problems, and you still have effects, sometimes significant, on the body. All drugs, including prescription, have side effects, some worse than others. Continuous use over years is far from ideal if it can be helped.

        • b waghorn 5.4.2.2
          23 January 2015 at 6:52 pm

          I think the mind suffers most when you have a substance abuse problem due to low sense of worth that comes from not being able to control you own behaviour.

          • Colonial Rawshark 5.4.2.2.1
            23 January 2015 at 7:01 pm

            +1

          • phillip ure 5.4.2.2.2
            23 January 2015 at 7:12 pm

            and i think yr guess is that of a purse-lipped cleanskin..

            ..who knows very little of what they speak..

            • b waghorn 5.4.2.2.2.1
              23 January 2015 at 7:19 pm

              Meet my 1st love alcohol as a 14 year .

              • phillip ure …
                23 January 2015 at 7:24 pm

                aahh..!..alcohol..!

                ..that is the low-esteem drug…

                ..(it is..after all..a depressant..)

                ..i used heroin mixed with cocaine..

                ..too much of a chemical roller-coaster to wallow in self-doubt..

                ..too blasted..no time..!

                • b waghorn …
                  23 January 2015 at 7:44 pm

                  If it was so good why stop?

                  • phillip ure …
                    23 January 2015 at 7:49 pm

                    see 5.4.1

                    ..and i was just answering yr false-surmise..

                    ..that you piled on top of yr first false-surmise..

                    • b waghorn …
                      23 January 2015 at 7:55 pm

                      Good on ya. I still drink but the switch that used to click over and drive me on on and on has long gone.

                    • weka …
                      23 January 2015 at 7:56 pm

                      if you don’t mind me asking, how did that happen (the switch no longer working)?

                    • b waghorn …
                      23 January 2015 at 8:06 pm

                      A mix between will power , growing up , having stepdaughters and the love of a good woman and sick of wasting my days recovering from hangovers.

                    • phillip ure …
                      23 January 2015 at 8:12 pm

                      @ weka..

                      ..how did what happen..?

                      ..if i u r asking what i think u r asking..

                      ..the answer is in 5.4.1..

                      ..but i also got really fucken messy..

                      ..and kinda smacked into the wall at the end of the dead-end alley…

                      (and this might blow yr mind..but i had an out-of-body experience that helped convince me it was time to stop..

                      ..i went out and looked back down at myself..

                      ..and what i had become..

                      ..and i was not impressed by what i saw..

                      ..it was clear i cd not do that for much longer..

                      ..i stopped soon after..

                      ..(the upside of that experience of course..is that i don’t fear death..as i know we are not just the body..i don’t know any more than that tho’..but that i know..and i found that quite liberating..and u can believe that..or not..)

                      ..also..with heroin..each time u get another habit..drop it..and then u start again..u get hooked quicker/harder than the time before..and the withdrawals are worse..

                      ..and i had got to the stage where i only had to see a picture of the stuff to get wired..

                      ..the pleasure/pain scales were tipped way over on the pain side..

                      ..plus i reached the age when most stop..

                    • Clemgeopin …
                      24 January 2015 at 12:03 am

                      @ Phil Ure
                      and this might blow yr mind..but i had an out-of-body experience that helped convince me it was time to stop..

                      That interests me. If you don’t mind, what I want to know is
                      (a) Were you on death bed and clinically dead?
                      (b) Did you go through the ‘tunnel’ with bright lights at a distance, ‘see’ a white robed figure, welcomed by deceased close friends and relatives, see heaven etc (c) Had an enjoyable experience from which you were reluctant to return or (d) was it just a drug induced high hallucination? (What drug were you using at that time?)

                    • phillip ure …
                      24 January 2015 at 5:55 am

                      @ clem..

                      no…and no..

                      ..i was straight @ the time..

                      ..and given my previous experiences with self-induced/fun ‘hallucinations’..

                      ..i do know the difference..

                • McFlock …
                  23 January 2015 at 8:16 pm

                  ..that is the low-esteem drug…

                  ..(it is..after all..a depressant..)

                  🙄

                  • phillip ure …
                    23 January 2015 at 8:19 pm

                    do/did u not know that alcohol acts as a depressant on the central nervous system..?

                    ..drink up..!..feel sad..!

                    ..and then a hangover..

                    ..what a deal..!

                    ..where do i sign up..?

                    ..cannabis gets u ‘high’..eh..?

                    ..it acts as a stimulant on the central nervous system..

                    ..smoke up..!..get mellow/hungry/sleepy..

                    ..sleep like a baby..

                    ..and no hangover..

                    ..(it’s a hard/difficult choice.)

                    • McFlock …
                      23 January 2015 at 8:34 pm

                      I was a bit surprised that our resident drug expert would link a physiological depressant with something that lowers self esteem ( a depressogenic).

                      Easy enough mistake for someone who doesn’t spend much of their time considering issues relating to drugs in society, but you seem to have spent years in doing field research…

                    • phillip ure …
                      23 January 2015 at 8:45 pm

                      “.. someone who doesn’t spend much of their time considering issues relating to drugs in society..”

                      crikey..!..others wd say i spend far too much time doing just that..

                      ..and i am no ‘expert’..i can just speak of what i know/have experienced..

  6. phillip ure 6
    23 January 2015 at 7:32 am

    wow..!..what a total hatchet-job on gareth morgan by tvone breakfast…

    ..du plessy allen and christie spent an inordinate amount of time cynically sneering at as to why morgan should even be @ ratana..

    ..how he is using the gathering to just promote his book..etc..etc..

    .factcheck:..morgan was invited to speak @ ratana..by ratana…

    ..real shabby/shit-journalism…

    ..by/from a pair of toxic-toads..

    ..they should both hang their heads in fucken shame..

  7. Heartbleeding Liberal 7
    23 January 2015 at 7:34 am

    Anyone else remember a certain someone saying that they are tightening up on the moderation? It seems that that quite a lot of vile (as shown in the post on this blog yesterday) doesn’t quite meet the threshold. I wonder what does.

    On another note, the readership sure has a lot of time on its hands to comment all day, considering that they generally self-identify as the “keeping this country running through hard work” type.

  8. les 8
    23 January 2015 at 8:05 am

    and the Bain train rolls on…whats the deal?David gets 50% of the take after expenses?

  9. vto 9
    23 January 2015 at 8:21 am

    National Radio, late yesterday afternoon listening to some story about Yemen’s so-called “terrorists”, the American news story had the presenter stating “we” as in “we need to work to curb these terrorists”. Not objective journalism at all, not one iota.

    I aint no part of their “we” the bloody wankers. The journalist should be referring to something like “the American government wants to curb the terrorists”, not “we need to curb the terrorists”

    Gobsmacked I was, gobsmacked.

    Wtf is Nat Radio doing running American fox-type shite like this? Unbelievable. Where is Morrisey?

    • Gosman 9.1
      23 January 2015 at 8:49 am

      Don’t you want to curb militant Islamic terrorism?

      • vto 9.1.1
        23 January 2015 at 8:52 am

        Why don’t you answer the point?

        • Gosman 9.1.1.1
          23 January 2015 at 9:03 am

          I am answering the point. I suggest the widely held view in our society is that militant Islamic fundamentalists (who are attempting to confront Western nations or western backed governments due to their virulent opposition to many values of the West that we generally all share) should be opposed around the world. Hence why Radio NZ National probably used the term ‘We’ in the piece you refer to.

          • vto 9.1.1.1.1
            23 January 2015 at 9:07 am

            The point was about objective journalism, not war.

            • Gosman 9.1.1.1.1.1
              23 January 2015 at 9:10 am

              Yes but objective journalism is not the same as perfectly balanced journalism. For example during a genocide it is not necessary to respect the views of those carrying out the genocide in any reports and refrain from calling it a genocide as a result.

              • vto …
                23 January 2015 at 9:14 am

                You mean like the western governments and media calling the Ottawa event an act of terrorism when it clearly was anything but.

                First casualty in war is truth, and this conspicuous blurt by Nat Radio yesterday is evidence of that.

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  23 January 2015 at 9:26 am

                  The Ottawa shooting was a terrorist attack by a mentally ill man. His illness doesn’t change the nature of his crime, which was essentially a copy cat of similar terrorist attacks.

                  Re: the RNZ piece, you haven’t given us anything to work with. There are several groups fighting in Yemen, including Al Qaeda. The group beseiging the capital probably don’t deserve the label terrorist, so if it was them being referred to, you are right to be critical.

                  A link would be useful.

                  • vto …
                    23 January 2015 at 9:48 am

                    But there was nothing “terrorism” about the Ottawa event … it involved a soldier and a government at war being attacked. No civilians involved at all. No terror.

                    Re the RNZ piece, yes no link sorry, bit hopeless ate fnding those. But the point was not about the subject of the piece, which is immaterial, it was entirely about how the piece was presented.

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      23 January 2015 at 10:03 am

                      Re: Ottawa, it won’t be much comfort to the family of the dead part-time soldier that a bloke on a blog in NZ reckons his death wasn’t terrorism. Your definition of terrorism (must involve civilians) is unique. That’s not how the Canadian parliament, the Mounties, or even the Ottawa Muslim Association (who arranged his burial), saw it.

                      However, I would agree that the label, accurate or not, is often co-opted for other political purposes and it certainly was immediately after this incident.

                      I think this statement is probably the most dignified response:

                      “Nathan Cirillo was my boyfriend. I loved him deeply, as did all of the family and friends who knew him and we all still mourn him every day. That being said, I feel I should weigh in on this ridiculous “was he a hero or was he not” debate. My response is:

                      “we should be talking about is the dismal state of mental healthcare in our country. What that deeply disturbed man killing my boyfriend should make Canadians focus on is how we can prevent another event like this through more accessible and effective mental health treatment programs that target the real source of this tragedy. Stop tearing apart the honour and love bestowed upon a wonderful man who deserves every bit of it and start taking a good hard look at the awful, dysfunctional systems in our nation that this has shown us need to change….I am a very proud Canadian, but the fact that this hero/not business is what the media here and the general public has chosen to talk about, I must say I am very disappointed. We can do, and are, better than this, Canada…..I feel as though this is an important discussion that needs to continue happening.””
                      Andrea Polko.

          • Pascals bookie 9.1.1.1.2
            23 January 2015 at 10:16 am

            “due to their virulent opposition to many values of the West”

            It’s been quite a while now Gos, you should try and get your head around what the conflict is about.

            “Muslims do not ‘hate our freedom,’ but rather they hate our policies,”

            http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/24/politics/24info.html?pagewanted=print&position=&_r=0

      • ianmac 9.1.2
        23 January 2015 at 9:09 am

        Yes I do Gosman and I want to curb militant American terrorism as well.

      • Sabine 9.1.3
        23 January 2015 at 12:17 pm

        Have you joined the Army/Navy yet? So that you will be ready to curb terrorism the day that Dear Leader announces our most excellent adventure in the Middle East?

        IF not… Why not? Don’t you want to curb militant Islamic terrorism?

      • joe90 9.1.4
        23 January 2015 at 12:32 pm

        Don’t you want to curb militant Islamic terrorism?

        Don’t you want to curb militant American racism?.

        Roqayah Chamseddine ‏@roqchams

        American patriots still tweeting about killing “ragheads” and “sandn—-rs” #AmericanSniper cc @adctweets

        https://twitter.com/roqchams/status/557913195289903105/photo/1

  10. phillip ure 10
    23 January 2015 at 8:27 am

    a ‘good-news’ seachange..

    ..the american senate has just voted on a motion..that voting yes on indicated an acceptance of the science of climate-change as a reality by the voting senator..

    ..and only one senator voted against it..

    ..2015 really will be the yr of climatechange taken seriously..

    ..and the drill baby drill!/mine baby mine! policies of this key govt..and our (pollution-charging exempt) dirty-dairying exporting ‘industries’..

    ..will make us more and more international-outliers..

    ..key will no longer be able to fall back on our high rate of renewable-energy as his answer/counter to any calls to clean up our act..

    ..the international pressure/imperatives on us/key is going to seriously ramp-up..

    • Gosman 10.1
      23 January 2015 at 8:55 am

      Are you seriously suggesting that the GOP is now full of Climate change accepting anti-oil people? I think you might need to change the variety that you are smoking at the moment as it could well be too strong 😉 .

      • phillip ure 10.1.1
        23 January 2015 at 9:03 am

        do try to keep up..gosman..

        ..i am reporting on a vote held in the american senate..in the last 24 hrs..

        ..where last time i looked..the denialists were in a serious majority..

        ..nothing more..nothing less..

        ..(of course..u r a denialist..eh..?..

        ..heads-up..!..it’s sunset-time on you..)

        (and romney has come out today denying he is a denialist..)

        • Gosman 10.1.1.1
          23 January 2015 at 9:48 am

          I have never denied the scientific consensus around any topic. I suspect you on the other hand have been at odds with the mainstream scientific view numerous times in the past and currently.

          • phillip ure 10.1.1.1.1
            23 January 2015 at 10:30 am

            ‘at odds with’ political views..more than ‘scientific’ views..

            ..’science’ supports most of the arguments i make..

            • Gosman 10.1.1.1.1.1
              23 January 2015 at 10:37 am

              Not the scientific consensus though.

              Strangely you read like some of the hard core Climate change deniers I have seen. They too argue the IPCC is driven by political rather than scientific notions.

    • joe90 10.2
      23 January 2015 at 11:10 am

      Yeah nah…

      Senate Republicans head-faked Democrats on climate change Wednesday, agreeing in a floor vote that the planet’s climate was changing, but blocking language that would have blamed human activity.

      http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/senate-climate-change-vote-114463.html

      • phillip ure 10.2.1
        23 January 2015 at 11:27 am

        that is a more nuanced report than the one i saw..

        ..(curse you..!..huffington post..!..)

        ..but everything else i said about increasing international pressure on us..

        ..still applies..

  11. vto 11
    23 January 2015 at 8:36 am

    Bloody 18th century colonials, still wanting to eat the environment …

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/65331060/farmers-want-to-tap-tekapo

    It will be good for the planet when this generation passes. Though I imagine there are many mini-colonials being brainwashed at the breakfast table each day in these regions

  12. phillip ure 12
    23 January 2015 at 8:59 am

    comment@whoar:..the govts’ war on the poor continues apace..(we shall know/mark them by their spectacles..)

    the government’s/work and incomes’ war on the poor continues..

    ..their cementing in of beneficiaries as second-hand citizens..

    ..soon you will be able to pick beneficiaries by the shitty/cheap glasses they are wearing..

    ..’cos..what used to happen..was beneficiaries would go to optician..

    ..and work and income wd lend them the money for them..(i repeat..’lend’..not give..)

    ..this was paid back in weekly increments..

    ..and that all seemed to work well for everyone..

    ..now there is a new regime..

    ..where you walk into an opticians..and don’t even bother looking at the frames lining the walls..they are not for the likes of you..

    ..beneficiaries get to choose from a very small selection of cheap/crappy frames..

    ..really fucken ugly they are..

    (cont..)

    http://whoar.co.nz/2015/commentwhoar-the-govts-war-on-the-poor-continues-apace-we-shall-knowmark-them-by-their-spectacles/

    • phillip ure 12.1
      23 January 2015 at 9:17 am

      (and after banging on at length..i finish with this..)

      .and while we are at it..how about an mp ask a question about this in questiontime..?

      ..as to why was this actually done..?..and for whose benefit..?..

      ..and as a follow-up..how much did this new schema cost to plan/set-up..?

      ..but the main question being..

      ..for why..?

      ..to my mind what they are doing is cruel..and a form of persecution..

      ..and surely this is a matter of civil-rights..?

      ..beneficiaries are clearly being treated as second-class citizens..and this is wrong..

      ..and the rub being..there is no cost-saving/rationale for this latest way to fuck over the poor..

      ..it is poor-bashing ideology writ-large..nothing more..nothing less..

      ..and cruel/an exercise in persecution with it..

      ..opposition mp’s should demand this logic-free policy/schema be scrapped..

  13. Skinny 13
    23 January 2015 at 10:09 am

    Today is a day National & the Maori-Tory party’s will be dreading. Fronting up at Ratana where Little & Labour are the main act. Peters will be rubbing Nationals frontman, Bill English nose in it over pretty much everything 🙂

    • Gosman 13.1
      23 January 2015 at 11:16 am

      Not sure why they should even bother going. Why kowtow to a religious and ethnically based organisation that formally supports your opponent?

      • Skinny 13.1.1
        23 January 2015 at 11:44 am

        Tradition dear boy, whatever next Gosman? Don’t tell me you would suggest the Government abstain from attending the Waitangi commemoration?

        Speaking our which I see the NZH are starting their divisive nonsense early by putting out the question of is being called Pakeha an insult? Something like that I read on their Facebook feed. Oh yes and as they intended the amount of thin skinned people taking offense was overwhelming.

        • Gosman 13.1.1.1
          23 January 2015 at 12:57 pm

          I don’t like being described as a Pakeha. I much prefer NZ European. I would rather not be defined by the other partner in our bi-cultural nation. It isn’t as if Maori people still go by the name ‘Natives’ any more.

          • McFlock 13.1.1.1.1
            23 January 2015 at 1:06 pm

            An optimistic tory would feel lucky if the descriptions stopped at “Pakeha”.

            • Gosman 13.1.1.1.1.1
              23 January 2015 at 1:15 pm

              Exactly. Let us acknowledge that many people prefer not to be called Pakeha or any other name they feel may be derogatory. Maori have defined what name/s they prefer (e.g. Maori, Tanga te Whenua etc). Non Maori should have the same right.

          • Pascals bookie 13.1.1.1.2
            23 January 2015 at 1:13 pm

            It isn’t as if Maori people still go by the name ‘Natives’ any more.

            Euros original term for them seems to have been “New Zealanders” when you look at old docs.

            • Gosman 13.1.1.1.2.1
              23 January 2015 at 1:17 pm

              But the term was used as a broad description of them.

              • Pascals bookie …
                23 January 2015 at 1:23 pm

                Not really though eh. “natives” is just a description. Loads of people all over the world were called natives by colonial powers. It doesn’t apply to Maori specifically. The term used for Maori specifically, to distinguish them from other peoples, was New Zealanders

                But whatever. I like being called Pakeha, and the term isn;t going away, so you’re just going to have to live with it I’m afraid.

                • Gosman …
                  23 January 2015 at 2:55 pm

                  If you want to be called Pakeha then that is your choice. But worrying that other people don’t want to be called one is a different matter entirely.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    23 January 2015 at 3:03 pm

                    You need a march to reclaim the language for oppressed Pakeha Gosman; a Pakeha Walk.

                  • Pascals bookie …
                    23 January 2015 at 3:12 pm

                    I’m not worried Gos.

                    You are quite free to your identity politics driven idea here. That’s fine.

                    All I’m saying is that many people will find you ridiculous. This is to do with the nature of identity politics.

                    It’s like how “meninism” is trying to become a thing, but is only becoming a silly thing that most people will laugh at.

                    Complaining that you are being othered, that your identity is being forced on you by a marginalised minority is always going to sound odd to many people.

                    ‘I’m a white male facing structural oppression, and I demand the right to have my voice as a white male heard’, is simply hard argument to make and not come across as being a bit of a fuckwit, what with society being the way it is.

                    But like I said, go for it. Print a T-shirt. Reclaim the streets, or something.

                    • Gosman …
                      23 January 2015 at 3:31 pm

                      Except the NZ Herald is holding internet polls on the issue. Remember it wasn’t me who raised this issue but someone who objected to the Herald doing this. Why would they be holding polls if it is such a non issue as you seem to think it is?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      23 January 2015 at 3:35 pm

                      Geez, Gosman, are you a bit slow today? Might the Herald not be blowing that dogwhistle of theirs to deliberately inflame racist sentiment?

                      Or is that so far outside the realms of possibility on Gosman?

                    • Pascals bookie …
                      23 January 2015 at 3:43 pm

                      The Herald holds ‘polls’ on all sorts of jack ass nonsense.

                      Who are the spokesbots for the poor oppressed white folk being othered by Te Reo?

                      Umm. Colin Craig perhaps? Mike Butler maybe? Jamie Whyte?

                      How they all doing?

                      ‘Pakeha’ gets used every day. No one* gives a shit.

                      *except for people who get ignored because *pretty much* everyone can see that the claim is inherently ridiculous.

                    • Gosman …
                      23 January 2015 at 3:55 pm

                      Objecting to being called Pakeha does not make you a racist. That stated many racists it is true would likely object to being labelled by the term. That still doesn’t make objecting to the term wrong.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      23 January 2015 at 4:00 pm

                      Objecting to being called Pakeha does not make you a racist, just very very precious, Pakeha.

                    • greywarshark …
                      23 January 2015 at 4:07 pm

                      I repetitively remind everyone of the Monty Python skit of the political underclass the unrestructured anarchists or something.
                      Ends with the king getting totally pissed off with the peasant who won’t Shut Up. And gives him a shake. ‘Help I’m being repressed’. See the violence inherent in the system Gosman.

          • tracey 13.1.1.1.3
            23 January 2015 at 1:16 pm

            aren’t you lucky that the census gives you that choice. Of the things you get called here and other places that may be the less offensive ?

          • framu 13.1.1.1.4
            23 January 2015 at 2:35 pm

            When your in france do you insist on using english names for things?

            Its the same idiocy you get from people who refuse to use proper maori pronunciation.
            Yet those same people would pronounce “faux pas” as “fo par” because they can somehow accept that the spelling of a word is said differently in french – yet they shit their precious little y-fronts if its in maori

            Maori is an official language of NZ and pakeha was the name they used to describe/label/denote europeans – so your a pakeha, big whoop

            Ooh noes – some is labeling me in a language i dont speak! The horror!

            Get over yourself ya big baby

            • Gosman 13.1.1.1.4.1
              23 January 2015 at 3:00 pm

              As stated I am happy if you want to define yourself as a Pakeha. I would prefer not to myself and would correct people if they decide to do so. They are free to ignore me but then they make the choice to be deliberately provocative.

              • framu …
                23 January 2015 at 3:21 pm

                do you object to different names in other languages or are you just a baby if its in maori?

                • Gosman …
                  23 January 2015 at 3:34 pm

                  I usually object to someone trying to define me as anything I disagree with. I make exceptions in places where I should expect such things such as this site.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    23 January 2015 at 3:36 pm

                    You have the right to come and see the violence inherent in the system. You’re being oppressed.

                  • McFlock …
                    23 January 2015 at 5:00 pm

                    You said above that you prefer to be defined as “NZ European”.

                    Is “Pakeha” that different in “definition” from “NZ European”? How so? I’m not sure it is.

                  • framu …
                    27 January 2015 at 9:49 am

                    so you disagree that your a european? You still havent even explained what you think pakeha means

                    your doing a shit job of papering over your knee jerk

              • marty mars …
                23 January 2015 at 3:28 pm

                “I would rather not be defined by the other partner in our bi-cultural nation.”

                why not?

                If you believe the sentence you wrote, what is the big issue for you gos?

                • Gosman …
                  23 January 2015 at 3:35 pm

                  Just as I would expect Maori wouldn’t want to be defined by non-Maori . In fact I believe that has been the objection to much policy in the past.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    23 January 2015 at 3:38 pm

                    You see what a learning experience this could be for you?

                  • marty mars …
                    23 January 2015 at 3:50 pm

                    is it the ‘defining’ bit that you don’t like? In that someone else is making a categorisation of you in some way that is beyond your control.

                    • JanM …
                      23 January 2015 at 5:13 pm

                      As far as I’m concerned, and following my own definition of ‘pakeha’ I would agree with Gosman that he isn’t one. I tend to think of a pakeha as someone who tries to honour the Treaty, is proud of it and acknowledges Maori as tangata whenua. It is, as far as I’m concerned, a compliment and not to be handed out to any old ‘european’.

                  • ropata:rorschach …
                    23 January 2015 at 5:14 pm

                    I have defined myself as God-Emperor of Tamaki Makau Rau. In future you shall address me this way.

                    [lprent: Translating…. Please wait….

                    A large worm?

                    😈 ???? ]

                  • Psycho Milt …
                    23 January 2015 at 7:38 pm

                    Thing is, immigrants to a country already populated by some other culture have to suck it up and take what the locals call them – for instance, I doubt Chinese immigrants call themselves Chinese, but that’s tough shit because we’re not going to call them whatever it is they call themselves. And if we moved to China, they’d have some word for us that wouldn’t be “NZ European,” and they wouldn’t be interested in being taught to call us “NZ European” instead of whatever word they already came up with. Them’s the breaks, kid – Maori got here first. People who want to be Europeans should go live in Europe.

                    • Pete George …
                      23 January 2015 at 8:10 pm

                      “have to suck it up and take what the locals call them ”

                      I know what you mean. I don’t like being called “NZ European” but just have to suck it up sometimes.

                      But I don’t have any problem with being called ‘Pākehā’

              • North …
                23 January 2015 at 4:10 pm

                Gosman @ 13.1.1.1.4.1 – “……but then they make the choice to be deliberately provocative.”

                Back up the truck bro’ ! Ain’t that all part and parcel of “Freedom of Speech” ? Yeah. Without limit apparently. So why the unmissable pejorative about provocativeness Gosman ?

                (“I would suggest…..”) that your ridiculously self-centred, eurocentric exceptionalism, the father of your hypocrisy, is risible Mr Pakehahahaha Gosman.

          • Alpha 13.1.1.1.5
            23 January 2015 at 4:10 pm

            “I don’t like being described as a Pakeha”-Gosman

            How about, ‘Honky-Ori Supremist’?

  14. Sanctuary 14
    23 January 2015 at 11:22 am

    Our commercial media is so transparently biased it is ridiculous. Today Kim Dotcom’s Mega launched a new, end to end, encrypted voice service called “MegaChat”. How do I know this? Not from the business pages of the Herald or Stuff, even though the service is based here. No, I read it in the Guardian – http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/22/kim-dotcom-launches-encrypted-voice-chat-skype-killer – a British newspaper that thought the story worth a reasonable amount of coverage.

    It is almost as if the word has gone out from the corporate owners of our commercial media – Dotcom can only be reported on if it furthers a certain new narrative about the guy – maybe a hint of perversion in some hot tottie being lured to the lair of the fat man (Sarah Torrent) or his “dubious” legal battles to avoid extradition.

      • greywarshark 14.1.1
        23 January 2015 at 1:22 pm

        One for you phillip ur the best!

        • phillip ure 14.1.1.1
          23 January 2015 at 1:40 pm

          chrs grey..

          ..i know it..u know it…

          ..i do wonder @ the resistance from others..

          ..’cos as u know..given their politics etc..(and esp considering the constant laments about ‘the news’ in this country..)..

          ..in a way those resisters are cutting off their own noses..

          ..as (so far) today i have posted 41 stories/links..

          ..many of which wd interest them..

          ..and more than that go up every day..(and i mean..’every day’..)

          ..and i know..as far as quality of material posted..in variety/quality/good-writing..

          ..i haven’t found a better site..(i source from excellent sites..but for that overall global-grab i haven’t found better..)

          ..if anyone knows of one..let me know..and i will add it as a resource..

          ..from day one i set out to be the best..

          ..and as far as reliability of constant high-quality content is concerned..i think i am..

          ..again..chrs 4 the feedback..

          • phillip ure 14.1.1.1.1
            23 January 2015 at 1:58 pm

            and..btw..i run this thing on the smell of an oily-rag..

            (..and as a prototype of what can be done by one person..i wd submit it is an example..

            ..and if anyone else kicks one off..let me know..and i will link to/promote ya..

            ..that world is open..where we are from doesn’t matter..)

            so anyway..i can’t afford to advertise..

            ..so if u like what i do..if u cd alert yr networks..?

            ..that wd b much appreciated..

            ..both by me..and by them to you..for turning them on to what i offer each day..

            • greywarshark 14.1.1.1.1.1
              23 January 2015 at 4:11 pm

              @ phillip u
              Oh blah blah don’t get carried away becos you’re so good. Just quietly sit there and feel superior.

              • phillip ure …
                23 January 2015 at 4:20 pm

                “.. Just quietly sit there..”

                yeah..that makes sense..

                (i forgot..!..we’re in nz..!..u aren’t allowed to say here that what u do is ‘good’..eh..?..

                ..the national inferiority-complex kicks in..)

                • greywarshark …
                  23 January 2015 at 4:31 pm

                  phillip ure
                  Go ahead tall poppy, shoot up to match the sunflower. Good for a bumper sticker that sounds positive and happy eh!

              • Murray Rawshark …
                23 January 2015 at 6:44 pm

                “Oh blah blah don’t get carried away becos you’re so good. Just quietly sit there and feel superior.”

                Real superiority comes from the quietly sitting part.

  15. Penny Bright 15
    23 January 2015 at 11:47 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wairarapa-times-age/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503414&objectid=11390635

    “Hecklers give super-city plan slow handclap”

    Preparing for my Public Meeting tonight, Friday 23 January 2015, 7.30pm – 9pm, at the Carterton ‘RSA’ 35 Broadway – to SLAM the Auckland ‘Supercity – for the 1%’, by exposing what a SUPER (expensive) mess and disaster it has been for the majority of citizens and ratepayers.

    Why on earth would anyone (apart from the 1% who stand to benefit from the ‘economies of scale’ – ie: bigger infrastructure and service contracts for fewer, but bigger private contractors / consultants), want to even consider any further Council amalgamations, before a full, thorough, genuinely independent audit, based upon FACTS and EVIDENCE, which prove just how ‘cost-effective’ the Auckland ‘Supercity’ has been for the majority of citizens and ratepayers?

    In my considered opinion, the Draft Wellington Reorganisation Proposal should STOP – NOW!

    How can future ‘cost-effectiveness’ of any proposed Council amalgamation be measured without a FACTUAL ‘datum’ of where costs fall NOW for Council services and regulatory functions?

    How can any citizens and ratepayers make an informed submission on this Draft Wellington Reorganisation Proposal – without such FACTS and EVIDENCE?

    Where does the ‘Tax Payers Union’ stand on the proposed Wellington ‘Supercity’?

    When are the Labour Party going to come out, hard and strong against the proposed Wellington ‘Supercity’?

    Penny Bright

    (For more information – check out http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz )

  16. marty mars 16
    23 January 2015 at 12:48 pm

    I’m a fan of this

    Greens co-leader Meteria Turei used the occasion to berate Key for his response to the first part of a landmark Waitangi Tribunal inquiry.

    “The Prime Minister’s response was to knock us several steps back,” she said in a speech to morehu [followers].

    “John Key had the gall to claim that New Zealand was settled “peacefully,” as if all Maori grievances evaporated into irrelevance on his command.

    “But he didn’t finish there. In an attempt to really put us in our place, John Key said Maori would have been grateful for the injection of capital early Pakeha brought with them when they settled in Aotearoa.”

    The Greens had no faith in the Treaty settlement process under National, she added.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/65343562/greens-use-ratana-meeting-to-attack-john-key

    key must be reminded constantly of his lies, misinformation and idiotic utterings. Onya Greens.

  17. tracey 17
    23 January 2015 at 1:20 pm

    Will our PM be taking the opportunity to call the European union “loonies” while he is in their neck of the words?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30933515

    • Gosman 18.1
      23 January 2015 at 2:52 pm

      Fascinating read. Thanks nadis.

    • The Murphey 18.2
      23 January 2015 at 3:08 pm

      Q. How does the figure make the world a better place ?

      Q. How can untraceable untrackable ‘wealth’ be measured ?

      Q. Do you know the contents of the Vatican vault ?

      • North 18.2.1
        23 January 2015 at 4:39 pm

        From the Klein article. “So be careful with that Oxfam statistic. It’s not telling you what you think it is. But it’s still telling you something.”

        Care to share what it is telling us Gosman, since Klein doesn’t. Or is “fascinating read” simply GosSpeak for “See, meaningless rubbish !” ? Come on Gosman……there must be a reason you find it “fascinating”.

        • Macro 18.2.1.1
          23 January 2015 at 7:08 pm

          hmmmm don’t expect too much of an answer from Gossy the hardly impressive analysis by klein involves a lot of waving of hands – but then if it supports the religion of the hidden hand – it must be “fascinating”

  19. philip Ferguson 19
    23 January 2015 at 4:23 pm

    In recent years the NZ state’s ‘terrorist’ designation list has expanded to include what are clearly several liberation movements.

    We’ve stuck up an article on developments in the repressive legislation in NZ in relation to this (and state powers), including a list of the organisations that now fall under this designation.

    See: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/the-terrorism-suppression-act-since-2007/

    Phil

  20. North 20
    23 January 2015 at 6:21 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11390420

    Sneering little article from sneering little Pakeha Claire Trevett. Using Morgan to sneer at Maori. Akshilly. Rubbish journalist. Probably out of sorts not being with Mr Akshilly in Europe.

  21. Pete George 21
    23 January 2015 at 7:28 pm

    2015 IT IS 3 MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT (from 5 minutes to midnight in 2012)

    Unchecked climate change, global nuclear weapons modernizations, and outsized nuclear weapons arsenals pose extraordinary and undeniable threats to the continued existence of humanity, and world leaders have failed to act with the speed or on the scale required to protect citizens from potential catastrophe. These failures of political leadership endanger every person on Earth.”

    Despite some modestly positive developments in the climate change arena, current efforts are entirely insufficient to prevent a catastrophic warming of Earth. Meanwhile, the United States and Russia have embarked on massive programs to modernize their nuclear triads—thereby undermining existing nuclear weapons treaties.

    “The clock ticks now at just three minutes to midnight because international leaders are failing to perform their most important duty—ensuring and preserving the health and vitality of human civilization.”

    It was 17 minutes to midnight in 1991 – it’s hard to believe that we are more than five times more precarious now than then.

    But the Greens weren’t formed then.

    http://thebulletin.org/timeline

    • vto 21.1
      23 January 2015 at 7:38 pm

      Follow the hippies Pete, follow the hippies ….. They are always onto future happenings while the hapless conservatives mooch around behind their lace curtains until the ground is broken and tested by others. It is only then that they are brave enough to face the future….

      Conservatives never face the future.

      Remember that next time you are considering the National Party’s approach to anything …. it is in their DNA – conservative, fearful and afraid, unable and unwilling to look ahead…..

      little use they are, little use …

      are you a conservative Pete? (btw, don’t be afraid to admit that you are, they do have a purpose although it is a small and little used one – do you know what it is?)

      • vto 21.1.1
        23 January 2015 at 7:53 pm

        I was actually thinking about this today while bumping over bumps and road-coning along (road-coning being the trick of clipping cones just enough to topple them, especially when they are used to divert from where there is no need… which is unbelievably common)

        If society is a ship on the sea then the conservatives are the lead in the keel and the ballast in the bilges. They keep the ship upright and stable but they have no idea where they have been or where they are going, let alone how to sail or any other such useful functions in the ship. Their use is as dead-weight….

        … whereas the future-facers, they are everything… they are the navigators, the ones at the helm, they raise and drop the sails, stitch and mend the sails, the list goes on…

        The problem arises of course when the dead-weight tries to navigate and sail… they should just stay in the bilges…

        Just look at Peter Dunne

        • Pete George 21.1.1.1
          23 January 2015 at 8:00 pm

          Interesting analogy. And who do you think would be the ones fighting over everyone having an equal share of the sails and shredding them in the process? And throwing everyone over starboard for standing on the wrong side?

          • vto 21.1.1.1.1
            23 January 2015 at 8:08 pm

            All sailors know that order is required at sea and as such disorder is very uncommon as the result is disaster for all …

            Of course the ship requires all components as otherwise without the lead and ballast the ship would roll over and sink.. while without the sailors and navigators the ship would hit rocks and sink…

            Again, the problem arises when the dead-weight tries to sail, while the effect of sailors adding their (typically skinny) mass to the dead-weight is negligible.

            It IS an interesting analogy isn’t it. It works in many many senses …

        • joe90 21.1.1.2
          23 January 2015 at 8:57 pm

          The problem arises of course when the dead-weight tries to navigate and sail… they should just stay in the bilges…

          We’re all sailors but every three years we get to navigate and elect helmsmen.

          Problem arises when navigators allow helmsmen to navigate.

      • Pete George 21.1.2
        23 January 2015 at 7:55 pm

        are you a conservative Pete?

        Depends on what you’re referring to as ‘conservative’. I was nowhere near being a supporter of Colin Craig’s so-called Conservatives.

        I’m conservative about some things but can be radical about others. I don’t have much in common with the conservatives who frequent Kiwiblog. Or here (for example lprent and others are quite conservative/old school in how they approach doing politics).

        I generally tend to think and act outside the crowd, am prepared to consider minority views and willing question groupthink.

        • Clemgeopin 21.1.2.1
          23 January 2015 at 11:00 pm

          Which do you prefer : A National led government or a Labour led government?

          • Pete George 21.1.2.1.1
            24 January 2015 at 6:41 am

            In 1999, 2002 and 2005 I preferred a Labour led government. In 2008, 2011 and 2014 I preferred a National led government.

            I hope I can prefer a Labour led government again but they have got to sort a lot of stuff out before I think they will be up to it. It’s a big ask to reverse a decade long declining trend in three years but I hope they are at least competitive in 2017.

            If Little and Labour have improved sufficiently there’s a better than even chance I’ll be interested in improving Labour’s share of the vote, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they will be ready to be preferred lead party in Government.

            • phillip ure 21.1.2.1.1.1
              24 January 2015 at 7:00 am

              “.. I’ll be interested in improving Labour’s share of the vote..”

              delusions of grandeur..much..?

            • Clemgeopin 21.1.2.1.1.2
              24 January 2015 at 11:24 am

              I hope I can prefer a Labour led government again but they have got to sort a lot of stuff out before I think they will be up to it.

              What do you mean by ‘they have to sort a lot of stuff?’ What stuff? Explain.

    • Psycho Milt 21.2
      23 January 2015 at 7:43 pm

      But the Greens weren’t formed then.

      Yo wut? Anyway, the NZ Green Party may not have been formed then, but the German version was.

    • Pascals bookie 21.3
      23 January 2015 at 8:38 pm

      Hi Pete.

      What do you mean by this?

      “It was 17 minutes to midnight in 1991 – it’s hard to believe that we are more than five times more precarious now than then.

      But the Greens weren’t formed then.”

      An obvious reading is that it is the formation of the Greens that has moved the clock forward. Is that what you meant?

      • Pete George 21.3.1
        23 January 2015 at 9:28 pm

        No I didn’t mean that. The Greens haven’t been in government so could hardly be blamed.

        However they keep warning of the end of the world as we know it unless we change everything so have raised fears of the end of the world.

        Ironically for a Bulletin of Atomic Scientists there doesn’t seem to be a lot of science involved in tweaking their clock. It seems to be based on perceptions.

        It may have worked effectively in the 1940s and 1950s but it seems a bit quaint and impotent now. And that’s similar to what the Greens are now struggling with.

        • weka 21.3.1.1
          23 January 2015 at 9:49 pm

          So many riches in one comment, I don’t know where to start, so am just going to back away while I still can, lol.

        • lprent 21.3.1.2
          23 January 2015 at 11:47 pm

          Perhaps people who are interested in the physical measurable world and less in the imaginary have a better “subjective” opinion than you do?

          I believe they do a statistical sampling.

          But based on the current population and that effects we are seeing now are far more irreversible than just dropping bombs, then I’d agree with them. Of course I have a science degree in the area of most concern?

          What is the basis of your opinion? Navel hair?

          • Pete George 21.3.1.2.1
            24 January 2015 at 6:17 am

            “I believe they do a statistical sampling” is not very scientific. They don’t cite any methodology in their announcement. Can you cite anything on their methodology or do you just have a belief in it? ?

            How can you do statistical sampling of the nuclear threat?

            “Modernization of huge arsenals” is mentioned but they don’t explain how that would make the weapons more dangerous, I would hope that they would be making them safer.

            I can understand that “Disarmament machinery that has ground to a halt” might not reduce the risk but why would it significantly (from 5 to 3) increase the risk?

            “From 2009 to 2013, the Obama administration cut only 309 warheads” shouldn’t increase the risk markedly.

            “Progress on climate and nuclear weapons issues has been too limited in recent years, according to the Board statement” – again, maybe a reason not to increase the minutes but reason to change it from 5 to 3?

            What they seem to have done is substantially increase the climate risk.

            Atomic scientists are presumably not climate scientists (ok, some of them cite climate connections but that seems odd for a Bulletin of Atomic Scientists).

            The climate risks have been talked about for decades, it isn’t some sudden new risk or suddenly escalated risk.

            And atomic scientists are presumably not psychologists who are able to assess the risk of nuclear nation leaders going momentarily mental.

            There’s plenty of dramatic statements in their announcement but no sign of scientific backing apart from stating they are scientists.

            I’m surprised to see them nearly double the risk in three years. Without any apparent science.

            Source: http://thebulletin.org/press-release/press-release-it-now-3-minutes-midnight7950

            “Of course I have a science degree in the area of most concern?”

            Climate science?
            Atomic Weaponry science?
            Risk Assessment science?

            When did you last study or research in “the area of most concern”?

            I’m interested to see your scientific backing for a change of risk from 5 to 3. You must have some good science to support “then I’d agree with them”.

            My impression is they are confusing a need for urgent action with the imminence of apocalypse. One scientists says “by the end of this century to profoundly transform the Earth’s climate” but also “We all need to respond now”.

            We call upon world leaders to take coordinated and rapid action to drastically reduce global emissions of heat-trapping gases, especially carbon dioxide.

            What is your scientific assessment of the consequences of “rapid action to drastically reduce global emissions of heat-trapping gases, especially carbon dioxide”?

            There must be some scientific analysis of the possible and probable positive and negative effects of rapid and drastic reductions in global emissions.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 21.3.1.2.1.1
              24 January 2015 at 7:44 am

              Do you seriously expect people to go and read the whole bulletin and then summarise it for your beige benefit?

              I read it. It contains the answers to your questions.

              • Pete George …
                24 January 2015 at 7:53 am

                So it should be easy for you to provide citations then.

                Interesting that the bulletin would answer questions about lprent’s scientific credentials. I must have missed those bits.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  24 January 2015 at 7:59 am

                  The answers to that are available here. Not searching them out for you either.

                  Go play your games at Yawns, Petty.

                  • Pete George …
                    24 January 2015 at 8:12 am

                    The usual OAB MO, make a dubious claim, fail to back it up, and divert into petty attack.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      24 January 2015 at 8:19 am

                      The claim that The Bulletin Of The Atomic Scientists answers Pete’s questions about The Bulletin Of The Atomic Scientists is easily verified, as is the claim that Lprent has mentioned his academic credentials on this forum.

                      Pete’s too lazy to read the lengthy articles of the former, and too dishonest to admit that he remembers the latter.

                      Yawns.

                    • Pete George …
                      24 January 2015 at 8:33 am

                      Same old empty retchoric.

                    • phillip ure …
                      24 January 2015 at 8:39 am

                      “.. make a dubious claim, fail to back it up, and divert..”

                      petey..!..that’s yr m.o..!

                    • marty mars …
                      24 January 2015 at 8:47 am

                      pete why didn’t you at least learn some skills when you were the fackchecker – you are just making yourself out to be silly here slackchecker

                    • Pete George …
                      24 January 2015 at 8:58 am

                      The usual suspects lining up to contribute positively to discussion. /sarc

            • lprent 21.3.1.2.1.2
              24 January 2015 at 4:58 pm

              Been playing with code on site today. This will be short.

              I can’t cite anything for it without spending more time than I currently have. It was from a Economist article just after the fall of the Berlin wall in the late 80s. From memory they sample the views of the members of the atomic scientists membership, which can include everyone who works with radioactives from physicists to geologists and even climate scientists.

              Playing with nuclear weapons even to upgrade or improve them is dangerous in its own right. However I suspect that the underlying issue is that trying to make weapons that are more able to bypass or destroy defenses or attack systems (the GPS sats for instance) is inherently dangerous. It is effectively an escalation of posture and makes it more likely that a cornerstone of deterrence fails.

              BTW: Virtually every scientist or person trained deeply in science understands the basis of climate science and why they are worried about climate change. Everyone from physicists to people with just bachelor degrees knows the basis of the science. They may disagree about how to cope with it and the degree of alarm, but it is really hard to find one who isn’t paid by the carbon industries who wouldn’t put that up as one of the most dangerous issues politically today.

              Especially people playing with nuclear arms. They are aware of the history that a high proportion of wars are triggered by disputes over scarce resources.

              The reason that the climate change issue is imminent is because you are confusing the cause and the effects because of the oceanic and icecap buffering. The cause is excessive CO2 (and a few other gases – but CO2 is the killer) in the volatiles that make up the oceans and atmosphere. Currently the excess CO2 is piling into the oceans and what extra CO2 is resident in the atmosphere is largely pumping its extra warming into melting ice and warming oceans.

              After those buffers start having a diminished ability to suck up excess, then everything that gets dumped into the atmosphere causes a much greater effect than we see today. Moreover the oceans aren’t static. They run with deep currents and the bulk of the stored heat and CO2 from the last century is currently being transported to the equators to pulse out at some time in the future (and BTW we still don’t really know how long that is away).

              The big risk is that if we don’t stop dumping waste CO2 until we see some effects, then we are likely to not see a gradual climate shift, but one that is periods of gradual change (like the last 15 years) punctuated by big spikes of change (like the decade prior). The level of the shifts are likely to keep getting larger.

              What that means for war is that instead of a gradual movement out of somewhere like Bangladesh as the farmlands get saline, we’re much more likely to see a 150 million starving people pouring over borders in a single year. Or instead of having the monsoons move offshore slowly over years, they simply will stop falling on land for years on end. Same in NZ, we’d get droughts year after year, followed by floods year after year. Climate change directly hits food production because it makes it more unpredictable.

              My first degree was in earth sciences. Look up what it covers. I study in it all of the time, just as I do in every other area I have trained or work in.

              There is this elegant thing called “searching the net for resources” and I have these abilities to “read” and “comprehend”. I know that the first and the last are difficult for you. But I have provided some hints on topics above.

  22. Pete George 22
    23 January 2015 at 9:06 pm

    The latest Roy Morgan poll is of minor interest but I wouldn’t bet the year on it – National up to 52%, they same as they were mid-last year.

    – National 52% (up 6% since November 24-December 7, 2014)
    – Maori Party 1.5% (down 0.5%)
    – Act NZ 1% (down 0.5%)
    – United Future 0% (unchanged)

    – Labour Party 26% (down 1%)
    – Greens 11% (down 1%)
    – NZ First 6% (down 1%

    Apart from National hey are insignificant changes especially for this time of year.

    – Conservative Party of NZ 2% (down 0.5%)
    – Internet-Mana Party alliance 0% (down 1%)
    – Independent/ Others 0.5% (down 0.5%)

    Internet-Mana down to 8% is one of the more notable results. The Internet Party seems doomed but Mana has been dragged right down with them.

  23. weka 23
    23 January 2015 at 9:07 pm

    Not sure which is more shocking, that the Herald ran this McDonalds advert as a news story, or the list of ingredients in US made McDonalds chips.

    Dimethylpolysiloxane, which Imahara struggles to pronounce, is added for safety reasons to prevent cooking oil from foaming.

    While tertiary butylhydroquinone (TBHQ) is applied as a food preservative.

    Imahara explains that there are numerous steps involved in the creation of McDonald’s fries.

    First potatoes are harvested from fields before being peeled, cut and blanched.

    They’re then fired through a cutter at up to 70 miles an hour into thin sticks.

    After being chiseled into the perfect shape, the strips of potato are sauced with a blend of canola oil, soybean oil, hydrongenated soybean oil, natural beef flavor, hydrolyzed wheat, hydrolyzed milk, citric acid and dimethylpolysiloxane.

    Dextrose – a natural sugar – is sprayed on the batons to help them maintain a golden fried color.

    Sodium acid pyrophosphate is also added to prevent the fries from going grey.

    Last but not least, salt is sprinkled on for flavor.

    The fries are then flash frozen at the Simplot factory and transported to McDonald’s outlets across the country.

    Once they are at restaurants, the potato sticks are fried for a second time.

    The oil blend is similar to the factory mix, with the addition of tertiary butylhydroquinone and hydrogenated soybean oil – a manufactured form of trans fat.

    And voila! McDonald’s World Famous Fries are served.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11390699

    • joe90 23.1
      23 January 2015 at 9:24 pm

      McDonalds, because despite their food tech the best chips on the planet are made with the right spuddies cut, soaked and double fried, in dripping, by Stan in his shed.

      • weka 23.1.1
        23 January 2015 at 9:46 pm

        😀

      • Tracey 23.1.2
        24 January 2015 at 10:53 am

        OR

        cut into wedges… par boiled, dried off, shaken to rough up… heat oil/duck fat in oven til piping hot. In they go, turn every ten minutes till cooked. Sprinkle with salt.

        Yum-Bloody-O

    • Clemgeopin 23.2
      23 January 2015 at 11:16 pm

      natural beef flavor

      If the cow worshiping Hindus read this, there could be riots in India!
      And if McDonald’s use lard or pork flavor, the 1.6 billion Muslims plus 13 million Jews in the world will go gaga!

      Apart from that, they use 19 ingredients to make the chips! Wonder how healthy and safe these chips are.

      They taste damn good though!

  24. weka 24
    23 January 2015 at 9:59 pm

    It’s shameful that the NZ MSM is still/i> so ignorant of the the Māori world.

    Andrea Vance promotes the Pākehā imperialist agenda,

    “Greens use Ratana meeting to attack John Key”

    Politics soured the atmosphere at Ratana today as the Greens attacked Prime Minister John Key’s “warped and outrageous” grasp of history.

    Unusually, all politicians were due to walk onto the marae south of Whanganui together as events marking the birthday of prophet T W Ratana ran late.

    But that was where the unity ended.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/65343562/greens-use-ratana-meeting-to-attack-john-key

    Dave Kennedy puts the speech in context.

    “Turei Ratana Speech Justified”

    For a Maori woman to express disappointment, in a Maori setting, regarding the negative effects that the Prime Minister’s comments will have on the relationship between Pakeha and Maori was fully justified.

    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2015/01/turei-ratana-speech-justified.html

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