Wayne Mapp says that the attack was justified because the NZers were under attack. They were entitled to defend themselves. Seems a bit odd as on the night, apart from some bullets there is no mention of weapons found or being fired at the NZers.
I currently don’t believe their excuse, that NZer’s were under attack as the reason to their behaviour, and I won’t believe it until I see the video footage, because there will be video of it.
On the night in question there was no report of “coming under fire.” Only some bullets were found
Therefore the justification must be that 2 weeks previously their patrol had been attacked. Therefore this would form the “self-defence” response. The attack had been from the direction of the valley and those two villages.
Seems to be a tenuous excuse to me, but maybe that is what happens in a messy war. If so, let it be part of the Terms of Engagement.
‘coming under fire’ would only be believable as an excuse if it happened in the immediate moments prior to their attack.
Revenge takes time to plan, maybe two weeks? Someone has stoked a fire, in times of ‘war’ it is easy to do, a good solider follows orders. Only some bullets were found, i wonder whose bullets and when they were fired? (i’m still reading the book, digesting it)
No wonder so many SAS have spoken to the authors, the decision of a few affecting the lives of many, not only deaths and casualties of innocents, but the PTSD and burden of guilt on those whom were good soldiers, following orders.
“Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood.
But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
– Hermann Göring (Nazi and Hitler Successor, death by suicide in 1946)
“Hitler appointed the following as the new Cabinet and as leaders of the nation:
President of the Reich (Reichspräsident), Minister of War (Kriegsminister) and Commander-in-Chief of the Navy (Oberbefehlshaber der Kriegsmarine): Grand Admiral Karl Dönitz
Chancellor of the Reich (Reichskanzler): Dr. Joseph Goebbels
Party Minister (Parteiminister): Martin Bormann
Foreign Minister (Aussenminister): Arthur Seyss-Inquart
Interior Minister (Innenminister): Gauleiter Paul Giesler
Commander-in-Chief of the Army (Oberbefehlshaber des Heeres): Field Marshal Ferdinand Schörner
Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force (Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe): Field Marshal Robert Ritter von Greim
Reichsführer-SS and Chief of Police (Reichsführer-SS und Chef der Deutschen Polizei): Gauleiter Karl Hanke
Minister of Economy (Wirtschaft): Walther Funk
Minister of Agriculture (Landwirtschaft): Herbert Backe
Minister of Justice (Justiz): Otto Thierack
Minister of Culture (Kultur): Dr. Gustav Adolf Scheel
Minister of Propaganda (Propaganda): Dr. Werner Naumann
Minister of Finance (Finanzen): Johann Ludwig Graf Schwerin von Krosigk
Minister of Labour (Arbeit): Dr. Theo Hupfauer
Minister of Munitions (Rüstung): Karl-Otto Saur
Director of the German Labour Front and member of the Cabinet (Leiter der Deutschen Arbeitsfront und Mitglied des Reichskabinetts: Reichsminister) Dr. Robert Ley”
EDIT… Words spoken by Herman Goring (Nazi, in 1941 Hitler designated him as his successor and deputy in all his offices. However… When Goring was informed on 22 April 1945 that Hitler intended to commit suicide, Göring sent a telegram to Hitler requesting permission to assume control of the Reich. Considering it an act of treason, Hitler removed Göring from all his positions, expelled him from the party, and ordered his arrest.) to Gustave Gilbert.
Part of a conversation Gilbert held with a dejected Hermann Goering in his cell on the evening of 18 April 1946, as the trials were halted for a three-day Easter recess:
Is that better red hand?
“Do you train for passing tests or do you train for creative inquiry?,” Noam Chomsky
Ian, you’re just causing trouble. When our friend Wayne told his lies to his colleagues in the National caucus, they accepted what he said without demur, as did our leading journalists, such as Duncan Garner, Mark Richardson and Mike Hosking.
Apple paid no tax in New Zealand for at least a decade, reports say
Investigation says company paid nothing to Inland Revenue Department because parent company registered in Australia
….So the National party immigration and foreign ownership policy mostly helps businesses, businesses only contribute about 15% of NZ taxes and some like Apple earning billions in NZ and paying no tax at all.
so those actually living here probably middle NZ, have to pay most of the taxes, local businesses compete against billion dollar companies who pay nothing and now many Kiwis don’t even have a home to rent, let alone own.
Does not make sense!
No wonder NZ is going backwards!! The global economic experiment has failed and it’s not just NZ – it is all around the world. Inequality has risen with neoliberalism.
The New Zealand Housing Foundation’s Affordable Rental scheme
• Helps low-income Kiwis buy homes under a shared-ownership model
• Must be a first time home buyer
• Must have minimum deposit of $10,000
• Have a regular combined household income, (in Auckland, between $55 000 and $95,000)
• Have a good credit record
• Currently looking for applicants for housing devolopment in Waimahia Inlet, Weymouth, Flat Bush, Hobsonville, Awatea, Christchurch and Hornby, Christchurch
There is no indication of the price of the house OR the on going mortgage payments.
The saving effort was/is impressive
She and her partner were able to buy the home, valued at $580,000 at the time, thanks to two things – the acceptance of their application for support from the New Zealand Housing Foundation, and their knuckled-down efforts to save $13,000 in five months.
What’s this scheme and how can I get in on it? Servicing a $567,000 mortgage on $55k a year? That’s tight, even for a singleton/no kids.
yep, good on the family for getting their own home and the sacrifices they made but when you are homeless and on the benefit how realistic is it to save $250 a week?
It seems like it is legal for Apple and many other corporations to pay no tax – so you have to wonder why do the NZ government and other governments allow it and discriminate against their own people paying tax and big companies can pay nothing?
Likewise if NZ is opened up to global housing trade and have to compete against real wages overseas and god knows how many tax advantages off shore people have and the massive amount of people in the world, not only is it not moral, it is not fair.
“We know that the Maori Party is using its negotiating position to demand concessions that National would never usually give,” says Mr Seymour.
“Today ACT and UnitedFuture are offering the Prime Minister another option in order to pass the bill without undermining the rights of property owners and local communities.”
Lest we forget the mass hysteria that pervaded this site recently and in fond memory of CV
1 the russians have not been shown to have engaged in anything more than the usual “intellegence” that is ongoing.
( i do not cite to prove a negative , that would violate logic!)
1: trump specifically said that his phones in trump tower had been “tapped”. Even Nunes rejects that in his statement
2: it says ” incidentally collected information about U.S. citizens involved in the Trump transition.”. Not Trump personally, and not that the “US citizens involved in the Trump transition” were the targets of that surveillance. A farcical example of that would be if Ivanka was photographed buying a hot dog from a vendor who was under surveillance for being a message hub for an international criminal cartel.
4: did Nunes say any damned thing about the Russians? I must have missed it.
5: to recap: Trump is still a paranoid wee oompah-loompah who mashes words together.
So you are suggesting a report on what he said “really means” somehow trumps (pun intended) the actual video of him saying it?
I do agree with your point 5 ! (Yes i really do!) but would add that he is also Is cunning as a rattlesnake and has honed his skills in media manipulation over many series of the apprentice . I am not fooled for a minute that the “obama tapped my phones” tweet was unintended or unproveable he is playing the media at their own game and winning. In the end i am convinced that 1. everyone with any profile had their phones tapped. 2. Obama knew this . Yes that is only my uncited conviction but notwithstanding the atlantic’s spin, That has to be the most likely truth (to set along side “fake truth” and “alternative truth”)
OK, where in the 1m15s video wikileaks have taken out of context does Nunes say trump’s phone was tapped, that trump himself was under surveillance, or the individuals close to trump’s campaign were targets of surveillance (as opposed to being seen connected with legitimate targets of surveillance)?
Because what I said and the Atlantic article says are consistent with the wikileaks video. They are all irrelevant to the claim that trump’s phones were tapped by obama, or even that trump himself came under any surveillance whatsoever.
I would suggest that:
Any communications across the US border were monitored automatically; and
anyone in the Trump campaign who made contact with an actual target of surveillance (either from spying or international crime) would have been logged as having that contact.
But then we know all that everyone is under those conditions, because Snowden and Flynn.
What I think is [insert word “odd” here] is the idea that Obama ordered any intelligence agency to make trump a surveillance target. For what – Democrats to lose the presidency and […], enabling world domination?
He states very clearly that having identified members of trump team as incidental to the target of survellance , these names and details were then disseminated thru the intelligence community ie they became targets themselves.
Let me put this another way (dramatic reconstruction, actual facts may differ!)
Scene one (combined intellegence headquarters)
“how can we get trump?” “I know say the russians helped him to win” this while not true can be proven (heh heh) , of course the russians can be shown to have tried to infuence the us election just as they always do and we always do. And trump won, “brilliant lets do it”
scene two (trump in his regal slendour of trump towers surrounded by cheap gold plated bathroomware)
“Hmm how about this” i accuse obama of ordering the tapping of my phones this can be proven even tho its not true (“heh heh”) everyone knows the cia taps everyones phone and because the cia reports to the president he technically has ordered all that they do.
Scene three (news room of theatlantic.com)
(ChIef editor)
“Ha ha trump has accused obama of tapping his phones we can shoot this down easily by showing that it was all just normal activity and the president had nothing personally to do with it,”
(Junior copywrtier) ” but dosn’t that approach rather undermine the russians helped trump line”
First of all, “i.e.” does not mean “I’ve just said A, now I will pretend B is A”. Having your name go through the intelligence cycle does not mean you are a target of surveillance. It just means you have been associated with one.
Secondly, the US intelligence services do not tap everyone’s phone. They monitor international calls, and those domestic calls for which they have a court order. That is not “everyone’s phone”. It is nowhere close.
Thirdly, the president cannot legally order phones to be tapped. If the president were dumb enough to interfere in an investigation, the tap would still need a court order. That is why the allegation Trump made is a big deal: he was accusing Obama of breaking a multitude of laws, for which Obama had no motive. That is not business as usual by intelligence services, it is a highly unusual and illegal act.
Either Obama goes to jail, or Trump is full of shit.
Well, either you have read a fair chunk of what Snowden and others released and matched it against what Nunes actually said, or you have no idea what you’re talking about when you use sentences like “target of survellance” and your comments are the product of wishful thinking and orange fantasies.
yes but the thing is my (dramatic reconstruction actual facts may differ) still offers a more plausable and believable scenario (that both stories are bullshit and one is designed to head off the other) than your uncited certainties. why is that?
well, your scenario revolves around the logical impossibility of something that is untrue being “proven”, so I guess you have an alternative definition of “plausible”.
BTW, pretty much everything in this discussion is “uncited”, including trump’s claim that obama ordered him to be wiretapped. Your comments included.
I can tell you that many things that are untrue can be “proven” particularly when they are reputational attacks. The whole point is that you need to have a healthy scepticism …. especially if you dont like the person being inpugned … or their politics
The other point is that you have a pretty weird idea of what “proven” means.
Trump made a massive claim. He has a history of making claims that turned out to be bullshit. He just says whatever is convenient at the time. There is no reason to think that his massive claim about Obama ordering trump tower to be wiretapped is any different.
He might be a genius masquerading as an oaf. It might be an amazing act. But so far the signs point to him being a privileged, stupid bully who got richer and powerful because capitalism rewards privileged, stupid bullies.
managed to come back from a ban and get another one within hours. It was pretty funny – he got back from a ban that was for making up unsubstantiated shit, then got another ban for making up unsubstantiated (and incorrect) shit about his previous ban.
Worthy aspiration. So why show us a clip of a deeply partisan political hack disseminated by an outlet that seems to have developed a penchant for manipulative partisan political games?
Nunes has made clear by his actions he’s more interested in protecting Trump than finding and publicising what actually happened. So his credibility is on the same level as Trump’s. There’s no discernible relationship between his words and reality. That wikileaks choose to spread this fertilizer in an apparent attempt to defend their past actions further trashes their credibility.
Digby reckons it’s just another coincidence in a big fat series of coincidences.
Then on March 15, in the wake of the president’s manic early-morning tweetstorm accusing former President Barack Obama of arranging for him to be wiretapped, Trump demonstrated his own awe-inspiring clairvoyance. Trump told Fox News’ Tucker Carlson that despite all the denials from every institution and person in a position to know, “You’re going to find some very interesting items coming to the forefront over the next two weeks.”
Wouldn’t you know it? On Wednesday House Intelligence Committee chair Rep. Devin Nunes, R-Calif., was shown some documents by a “source” that had him so up in arms he couldn’t even take the time to alert the other committee members before he ran to the White House to show the president. When asked if he felt vindicated by this alleged bombshell, Trump replied:
I somewhat do. I must tell you I somewhat do. I very much appreciated the fact that they found what they found, I somewhat do.
It’s amazing how Trump and his people are able to see into the future this way, isn’t it?
Andre
I am unable to discern any actual content in your last post. Apart from attacks on the credibility of sources based on attacks on their credibility…….. nothing!
WTF ? ?? is this what substituts for discorse here?
A hoot yet a good point:
“A conservation trust manager angry at Environment Minister Nick Smith’s swimmable river stance has challenged him to a boxing match – with the loser to “frolic” in one of Christchurch’s most polluted swimming holes.” http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11824103
Just watched it thanks Cinny. Jacinda calm measured questions well ordered.
Paula discomfited, unable to answer for the PM, lacking her usual spite/arrogance.
Well done Jacinda.
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This article, authored by Dr Lisa Schipper, Dr Morgan Scoville-Simonds, Dr Katharine Vincent and Prof Siri Eriksen, was originally published on the Carbon Brief website on Feb 10, 2021. It is reposted below in its entirety. Click here to access the original article and comments posted on Carbon Brief. Photo by ...
The Green Party are calling on the Government to assess how the COVID-19 leave support scheme can be better improved, distributed and enforced so that workers can properly take leave when self-isolating. ...
We know that when our rural communities do well, all of New Zealand benefits. Labour is committed to supporting our regions so that, together, we can achieve even more. Here are just some of the ways we’re backing rural communities. ...
Government data today shows that the wealthiest New Zealanders aren’t paying their fair share of tax, whilst everyone else chips in, Green Party spokesperson on Finance Julie Anne Genter said today. ...
The Green Party welcomes the change in the Reserve Bank’s remit to consider the impacts on housing when making financial decisions, but housing affordability shouldn’t be left to the Reserve Bank, Green Party Co-leader and Housing spokesperson Marama Davidson said today. ...
The Green Party welcomes the passing of the Local Electorate Act Māori Wards Amendment Bill which ensures Māori have a say on local issues across Aotearoa New Zealand. ...
New UMR research reveals that 69 percent of New Zealanders agree that the government should increase the amount if income support paid to those on low incomes or not in paid work. ...
The Green Party are celebrating the Labour Government bringing forward the timeline to ban conversion therapy, and will push to ensure any draft bill properly protects all of our Rainbow communities. ...
The Green Party is joining the call for ‘brave policy action’ to address rapidly increasing inequality in New Zealand, which is likely to be exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. ...
Green MPs currently in Auckland, Marama Davidson, Chlöe Swarbrick and Golriz Ghahraman, will remain in Auckland for the next 72 hours. Those in Auckland today for Big Gay Out who have flown home will self-isolate for 72 hours. These decisions will be subject to any new information that may arise ...
It’s Pride month, and as we celebrate our LGBTIA+ community, we’re taking the next steps towards a more inclusive Aotearoa. From investing in mental health services to banning harmful conversion therapy, we’re building a New Zealand where everyone can be safe, healthy and happy. ...
The Government has confirmed details of COVID-19 support for business and workers following the increased alert levels due to a resurgence of the virus over the weekend. Following two new community cases of COVID-19, Auckland moved to Alert Level 3 and the rest of New Zealand moved to Alert Level ...
The Government remains committed to hosting the Women’s Rugby World Cup in New Zealand in 2022 should a decision be made by World Rugby this weekend to postpone this year’s tournament. World Rugby is recommending the event be postponed until next year due to COVID-19, with a final decision to ...
Community and social service support providers have again swung into action to help people and families affected by the current COVID-19 alert levels. “The Government recognises that in many instances social service, community, iwi and Whānau Ora organisations are best placed to provide vital support to the communities impacted by ...
The Government is following through on an election promise to conduct an independent review into PHARMAC, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Andrew Little announced today. The Review will focus on two areas: How well PHARMAC performs against its current objectives and whether and how its performance against these ...
Some of the country’s most forward-thinking early-career conservationists are among recipients of a new scholarship aimed at supporting a new generation of biodiversity champions, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. The Department of Conservation (DOC) has awarded one-year postgraduate research scholarships of $15,000 to ten Masters students in the natural ...
I acknowledge our whānau overseas, joining us from Te Whenua Moemoeā, and I wish to pay respects to their elders past, present, and emerging. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you all today. I am very pleased to be part of the conversation on Indigenous business, and part ...
Social Development and Employment Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced today that main benefits will increase by 3.1 percent on 1 April, in line with the rise in the average wage. The Government announced changes to the annual adjustment of main benefits in Budget 2019, indexing main benefit increases to the average ...
A Deed of Settlement has been signed between Ngāti Maru and the Crown settling the iwi’s historical Treaty of Waitangi claims, Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Andrew Little announced today. The Ngāti Maru rohe is centred on the inland Waitara River valley, east to the Whanganui River and its ...
With a suite of Government income support packages available, Minister for Social Development and Employment Carmel Sepuloni is encouraging people, and businesses, connected to the recent Auckland COVID-19 cases to check the Work and Income website if they’ve been impacted by the need to self-isolate. “If you are required to ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has expressed her condolences at the passing of long-serving former Prime Minister of Papua New Guinea, Grand Chief Sir Michael Somare. “Our thoughts are with Lady Veronica Somare and family, Prime Minister James Marape and the people of Papua New Guinea during this time of great ...
E te tī, e te tā Tēnei te mihi maioha ki a koutou Ki te whenua e takoto nei Ki te rangi e tū iho nei Ki a tātou e tau nei Tēnā tātou. It’s great to be with you today, along with some of the ministerial housing team; Hon Peeni Henare, the ...
The Government is backing a new project to use drone technology to transform our understanding and protection of the Māui dolphin, Aotearoa’s most endangered dolphin. “The project is just one part of the Government’s plan to save the Māui dolphin. We are committed to protecting this treasure,” Oceans and Fisheries ...
Major water reform has taken a step closer with the appointment of the inaugural board of the Taumata Arowai water services regulator, Hon Nanaia Mahuta says. Former Director General of Health and respected public health specialist Dame Karen Poutasi will chair the inaugural board of Crown agency Taumata Arowai. “Dame ...
The newly completed Hibiscus Coast Bus Station will help people make better transport choices to help ease congestion and benefit the environment, Transport Minister Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff said today. Michael Wood and Phil Goff officially opened the Hibiscus Coast Bus Station which sits just off the ...
New funding announced by Conservation Minister Kiri Allan today will provide work and help protect the unique values of Northland’s Te Ārai Nature Reserve for future generations. Te Ārai is culturally important to Te Aupōuri as the last resting place of the spirits before they depart to Te Rerenga Wairua. ...
Today the Government has taken a key step to support Pacific people to becoming Community Housing providers, says the Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio. “This will be great news for Pacific communities with the decision to provide Pacific Financial Capability Grant funding and a tender process to ...
Conservation Minister Kiri Allan is encouraging New Zealanders to have their say on a proposed marine mammal sanctuary to address the rapid decline of bottlenose dolphins in Te Pēwhairangi, the Bay of Islands. The proposal, developed jointly with Ngā Hapū o te Pēwhairangi, would protect all marine mammals of the ...
Attorney-General David Parker today announced the appointment of three new District Court Judges. Two of the appointees will take up their roles on 1 April, replacing sitting Judges who have reached retirement age. Kirsten Lummis, lawyer of Auckland has been appointed as a District Court Judge with jury jurisdiction to ...
Government announces list of life-shortening conditions guaranteeing early KiwiSaver access The Government changed the KiwiSaver rules in 2019 so people with life-shortening congenital conditions can withdraw their savings early The four conditions guaranteed early access are – down syndrome, cerebral palsy, Huntington’s disease and fetal alcohol spectrum disorder An alternative ...
The Reserve Bank is now required to consider the impact on housing when making monetary and financial policy decisions, Grant Robertson announced today. Changes have been made to the Bank’s Monetary Policy Committee’s remit requiring it to take into account government policy relating to more sustainable house prices, while working ...
The Labour Government will invest $6 million for 70 additional adult cochlear implants this year to significantly reduce the historical waitlist, Health Minister Andrew Little says. “Cochlear implants are life changing for kiwis who suffer from severe hearing loss. As well as improving an individual’s hearing, they open doors to ...
The Local Electoral (Māori Wards and Māori Constituencies) Amendment Bill passed its third reading today and will become law, Minister of Local Government Hon Nanaia Mahuta says. “This is a significant step forward for Māori representation in local government. We know how important it is to have diversity around ...
The Government has added 1,000 more transitional housing places as promised under the Aotearoa New Zealand Homelessness Action Plan (HAP), launched one year ago. Minister of Housing Megan Woods says the milestone supports the Government’s priority to ensure every New Zealander has warm, dry, secure housing. “Transitional housing provides people ...
A second batch of Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines arrived safely yesterday at Auckland International Airport, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. “This shipment contained about 76,000 doses, and follows our first shipment of 60,000 doses that arrived last week. We expect further shipments of vaccine over the coming weeks,” Chris Hipkins said. ...
The Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Carmel Sepuloni has today announced $18 million to support creative spaces. Creative spaces are places in the community where people with mental health needs, disabled people, and those looking for social connection, are welcomed and supported to practice and participate in the arts ...
Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Minister Andrew Little today welcomed Moriori to Parliament to witness the first reading of the Moriori Claims Settlement Bill. “This bill is the culmination of years of dedication and hard work from all the parties involved. “I am delighted to reach this significant milestone today,” Andrew ...
22,400 fewer children experiencing material hardship 45,400 fewer children in low income households on after-housing costs measure After-housing costs target achieved a year ahead of schedule Government action has seen child poverty reduce against all nine official measures compared to the baseline year, Prime Minister and Minister for Child Poverty ...
It’s time to recognise the outstanding work early learning services, kōhanga reo, schools and kura do to support children and young people to succeed, Minister of Education Chris Hipkins says. The 2021 Prime Minister’s Education Excellence Awards are now open through until April 16. “The past year has reminded us ...
Three new Jobs for Nature projects will help nature thrive in the Bay of Plenty and keep local people in work says Conservation Minister Kiri Allan. “Up to 30 people will be employed in the projects, which are aimed at boosting local conservation efforts, enhancing some of the region’s most ...
The Government has accepted all of the Holidays Act Taskforce’s recommended changes, which will provide certainty to employers and help employees receive their leave entitlements, Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Michael Wood announced today. Michael Wood said the Government established the Holidays Act Taskforce to help address challenges with the ...
The Government’s handling of the COVID-19 pandemic and faster than expected economic recovery has been acknowledged in today’s credit rating upgrade. Credit ratings agency Standard & Poor’s (S&P) today raised New Zealand’s local currency credit rating to AAA with a stable outlook. This follows Fitch reaffirming its AA+ rating last ...
Tena koutou e nga Maata Waka Ngai Tuahuriri, Ngai Tahu whanui, Tena koutou. Nau mai whakatau mai ki tenei ra maumahara i te Ru Whenua Apiti hono tatai hono, Te hunga mate ki te hunga mate Apiti hono tatai hono, Te hunga ora ki te hunga ora Tena koutou, Tena ...
The Minister of Justice has reaffirmed the Government’s urgent commitment, as stated in its 2020 Election Manifesto, to ban conversion practices in New Zealand by this time next year. “The Government has work underway to develop policy which will bring legislation to Parliament by the middle of this year and ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage and Social Development Hon Carmel Sepuloni today launched a new Creative Careers Service, which is expected to support up to 1,000 creatives, across three regions over the next two years. The new service builds on the most successful aspects of the former Pathways to ...
Overseas consumers eager for natural products in the face of the COVID-19 pandemic have helped boost honey export revenue by 20 percent to $425 million in the year to June 30, 2020, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor says. “The results from the latest Ministry for Primary Industries’ 2020 Apiculture Monitoring ...
Thanks to more than $10-million in new services from the Government, more rangatahi will be able to access mental health and addiction support in their community. Minister of Health Andrew Little made the announcement today while visiting Odyssey House Christchurch and acknowledged that significant events like the devastating earthquakes ten ...
Two month automatic visitor visa extension for most visitor visa holders Temporary waiver of time spent in New Zealand rule for visitor stays Visitor visa holders will be able to stay in New Zealand a little longer as the Government eases restrictions for those still here, the Minister of Immigration ...
The Tourism and Conservation Ministers say today’s report by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment (PCE) adds to calls to overhaul the tourism model that existed prior to COVID19. “The PCE tourism report joins a chorus of analysis which has established that previous settings, which prioritised volume over value, are ...
The Government is providing certainty for the dietary supplements industry as we work to overhaul the rules governing the products, Minister for Food Safety Dr Ayesha Verrall said. Dietary supplements are health and wellness products taken orally to supplement a traditional diet. Some examples include vitamin and mineral supplements, echinacea, ...
The Government is joining the Council of Europe Convention on Cybercrime (the Budapest Convention), Justice Minister Kris Faafoi and Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications Dr David Clark announced today. The decision progresses a recommendation by the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Christchurch terror attack to accede to ...
Our dairy provinces are reverberating to the news that prices soared at the latest Fonterra GDT auction. The prosperity this brings to the regions will provide a significant counterbalance to the loss of earning power in the tourism sector because of the pandemic. The average price at the auction climbed ...
How to recognise possible symptoms of the new B.1.1.7 variant of Covid-19, in illustrated form, in seven different languages.Our Covid-19 coverage is funded by The Spinoff Members. To support the ongoing work, please donate here. In April 2020, Toby and Siouxsie created a symptoms chart so people could ...
One of the final public battles over the Nicky Hager book Dirty Politics - a defamation trial over the defunct Whaleoil blog site - could be over within hours of its High Court opening today. Tim Murphy reports. A long-running defamation case against former Whaleoil blogger Cameron Slater and PR man ...
New Zealand Infrastructure Commission, Te Waihanga’s latest discussion document looks at the state of play of infrastructure in the resource recovery and waste sector. One of a series of reports into key infrastructure sectors, it highlights some of ...
E tū, the biggest private sector union in Aotearoa New Zealand, says that workers should not lose out on pay when they are required to self-isolate, or otherwise miss work, because of COVID-19. E tū has been calling for workers’ wages to lead the ...
The shortlist for the prestigious Mary and Peter Biggs Award for Poetry, which carries prize money worth $10,000, was made public this morning. Our poetry editor Chris Tse is ecstatic. Here’s a sobering statistic: since 2001, only two non-Pākehā poets have won the poetry category at the book awards – David ...
Over the weekend Jacinda Ardern appeared on Newshub The Nation and made some problematic comments about lifting people out of poverty, saying the Labour government has prioritised targeting families with children. “This is the problem - Jacinda Ardern and this ...
Cohort life tables track the mortality experience of people born in each year from 1876. Visit our website to read this information release and to download CSV: New Zealand cohort life tables: March 2021 update CSV files for download ...
Unlike most developed countries, New Zealand doesn’t have a capital gains tax. But if we did, it would bring in billions worth of revenue over the next five years. Here are some of the things you could spend that money on.There’s little point dwelling on things that didn’t happen. Lamenting ...
The public attacks and investigations against a Hutt City Councillor asking questions about allegations relating to the Mayor, look more like a vindictive witch hunt than a Council striving for good ethical standards, says the Taxpayers’ Union . “For ...
The latest documentary in the New Zealand Wars series hit different for presenter Mihingarangi Forbes. She explains why to Leonie Hayden.Content warning: contains descriptions of the murder of women and children, and sexual assault.The military campaign by the British Crown to suppress Māori sovereignty and acquire Māori land for the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Martin Drum, Lecturer Politics and International Relations, University of Notre Dame Australia Time is running out for the Western Australian Liberal Party. Polling points to a massive Labor landslide at the upcoming state election on March 13. Following last month’s Newspoll, which ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra A substantial minority of Chinese-Australians have experienced a backlash from the COVID-19 pandemic and the 2020 deterioration in bilateral relations, according to a survey from the Lowy Institute. In the poll, 37% said they had ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Neeraja Sanmuhanathan, Senior Sexual Assault Counsellor, Royal Prince Alfred Hospital. Lecturer in Counselling, University of Notre Dame Australia As a senior sexual assault counsellor working with Sydney’s Royal Prince Alfred Hospital, I often sit across from people on the worst day of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Monique Retamal, Research Principal, Institute for Sustainable Futures, University of Technology Sydney We all know it’s wrong to toss your rubbish into the ocean or another natural place. But it might surprise you to learn some plastic waste ends up in the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cody Reynolds, Researcher & Educator, University of Newcastle “She’s more crazy than she is female.” So declared a senior student in a furious critique of Sylvia Plath’s poetry. The classroom was entirely male, myself included. As the teacher, I mediated discussion but ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jennifer Stokes, Senior Lecturer in Digital and Information Literacy (Education Futures), University of South Australia Starting university is usually a time of hope focused on bright futures. This year feels different. As cities move in and out of lockdown, new students are ...
Live coverage of the snap lockdown and the search for a source of the latest infection. Auckland is now at alert level three, NZ at level two. Get in touch at stewart@thespinoff.co.nz 7.45am: ‘An encouraging sign’ – no new Covid-19 cases overnightThere are no new community cases of Covid-19 this morning, ...
Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Pharmac review unlikely to give patient advocates what they want, feedback shows confusion on managed isolation communication, and National wants more generous Covid leave scheme.An independent review into Pharmac has been announced, and will focus on how and how quickly ...
Ahead of the Finance Minister's speech to the National Economic Forum, Otago University's Dr Dennis Wesselbaum says the Government's focus on wellbeing has undermined the ability of economic research to inform policy-making, just when we need rigorous research the most Since the end of the Second World War, the New ...
The government has been quietly investigating if returnees and border workers should use a phone app that can detect Covid-19 two or three days before symptoms set in. ...
“The Prime Minister has some serious explaining to do after her Government's Official COVID-19 Facebook Page contradicted her claim that Case J (Kmart worker) and Case L (KFC worker) were told to isolate. The Page replied to a member of the public saying ...
Māori Development Minister Willie Jackson has taken a swing at National’s Simon Bridges and ACT’s David Seymour, saying they’re a “total waste of bloody time’’ when it comes to advocating for their own Māori people, writes political editor Jo Moir Willie Jackson is offended, hacked off, but not surprised there ...
How did two weed control operations on public conservation land go so wrong? David Williams reports The effects of the herbicide spraying becomes obvious just past the old, corrugated-iron musterers’ hut, with its tack shed and veranda. Scattered among grasses at the southern edge of Lake Emma in Canterbury’s Hakatere ...
A sailing rookie hailing from the mountains of Colorado, Kelly Hartzell plays a crucial part in Team New Zealand's defence of the America's Cup. She explains her role as a mechatronics engineer to Suzanne McFadden. Kelly Hartzell may have one of the coolest offices in New Zealand right now. Most ...
With China shutting its doors to New Zealand’s waste, Auckland Council is pinning its hopes on community-run recycling centres. Auckland Council has approved a plan to more than double the number of recycling facilities across the region by 2031. The updated Resource Recovery Network Strategy calls for a dramatic expansion ...
Rocket Lab is promising the sky with its NZ$5.7 billion Nasdaq listing, but potential investors should go in with their feet firmly on the ground. There’s something crazy exciting and deeply scary about Rocket Lab’s announcement it will soon be listing on the US’s Nasdaq stock market, with a valuation of US$4.1 ...
Councils use wards to recognise communities of interest, so why are Māori wards singled out for this criticism when other wards are not? The Government recently removed the provision in the Local Electoral Act that allowed a public poll to overturn a council’s decision to establish a Māori ward. This has reignited ...
The Climate Commission has an urgent task, but not so urgent that the work should forgo basic scrutiny, says Eric Crampton Academic debates are rarely high stakes. Compared with the kind of work the Climate Change Commission is doing, debates among academics are of almost no consequence at all. But ...
At the heart of our Covid-19 response has been the recognition that health and economic goals are intertwined. We can cement those values in an independent Public Health Agency,writes Robert Beaglehole, a public health expert who is professor emeritus of the University of Auckland and formerly based at the World ...
Mōrena! A minute ago the embargo lifted on the shortlist for the 2021 Ockham New Zealand Book Awards. Quick stats: 179 entered; 40 made the longlist; 24 of those just bit the award dust. Here are the 16 that remain, followed by analysis from our books editor Catherine Woulfe. JANN MEDLICOTT ...
Elon Musk's Starlink satellites are a wondrous sight - and also a slightly disturbing one. How many foreign objects can we fit into the night sky before they start crashing into each other? A dark, clear night, and a milky way of glorious stars. Amateur stargazer Jeremy Rees was ...
ReadingRoom Steve Braunias comments on the Ockham New Zealand book awards shortlist New Zealand literature has long tried to be woke, made various woke noises, and had very woke intentions but really it's operated as a safe enclave for good old whitey to enjoy the awards, the grants, the cash ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The minister accused of historical rape is set to identify himself on Wednesday, after NSW police on Tuesday declared their examination of the claim “closed”. The push by the friends of the alleged victim – ...
The Myanmar army, police and militia’s use of violence against peaceful protestors reached another level on Sunday, February 28. By 5pm, local media reported at least 19 confirmed killings and another 10 unconfirmed. The International Federation of Journalists (IFJ) spoke to journalists covering the nationwide protests. Toe Zaw Latt, a video ...
By Kalino Latu, editor of Kaniva Tonga A group of Tongan missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) in Papua New Guinea has gone into hiding in a church in Lae as unrest and violence erupted in the country yesterday. The chaos came after days ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Liz Giuffre, Senior Lecturer in Communication, University of Technology Sydney In the book 25 years of Mushroom Records, published in 1998, Michael Gudinski described himself as “Chairman, Mushroom Group of Companies and music fan”. There could be no better description of Gudinski, ...
Covid-19 restrictions have forced a postponement for the NZ Spirit Festival, an alternative lifestyle event due to begin this week. Now some ticket-holders are angry that organisers are refusing to refund if they can’t make the new date – even for those who’d bought Covid ‘refundable’ tickets. Jihee Junn reports.Set ...
Amid reports of confusing information being given to people after Covid tests, we asked our readers what they’d been told – and sought to clarify what the rules really are.When one of the people who has now been confirmed as having Covid-19 went to work at KFC, it represented an ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Josh Frydenberg has the opportunity to become a transformational Australian treasurer. He has been bequeathed a set of circumstances that comes along rarely. He has already shown himself able to ...
The Government’s announcement of a review into Pharmac declares that its budget, and the total amount allocated to pharmaceuticals, will be out of scope. This ignores the most serious weakness with current arrangements: that no one really knows whether ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Effie Karageorgos, Lecturer, University of Newcastle Last year, 56 women were allegedly killed by their partner or ex-partner in Australia. Domestic violence against women is a national issue, and the media plays a key role in setting the public agenda on the ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is calling for calmer heads to prevail after former Tauranga Mayor Tenby Powell’s calls for an amalgamation of the district’s councils into a mini ‘super city’. “Intellectually, bigger might sound better or more efficient, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Claire Greenwell, PhD Candidate, Murdoch University Environmental scientists see flora, fauna and phenomena the rest of us rarely do. In this new series, we’ve invited them to share their unique photos from the field. Each year, oystercatchers, plovers and terns flock ...
Our Beehive Bulletin … The Beehive has drawn attention today to the help being dispensed by the kindly Ardern government and other agencies for Covid-affected communities after alert levels (and levels of social inconvenience) were raised. But Pharmac, the state’s controversial drug-purchasing agency, is to undergo a rigorous examination before ...
Government Ministers need to review their decision to leave out nitrogen pollution limits from last year's freshwater law reform. Yesterday, Radio New Zealand revealed the Government ignored advice from the Freshwater Leaders' Group, Kaahui Wai Māori, ...
Hot on the heels of the Bachelorette finale, a new season of The Bachelor NZ begins tonight. Tara Ward introduces the women competing for Moses Mackay’s heart.Last night’s dramatic finale of The Bachelorette NZ may still be ringing in our ears and beating in our hearts, but it’s time to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Natasha Yates, Assistant Professor, General Practice, Bond University Australia is now more than a week into rolling out the Pfizer vaccine, while AstraZeneca shots are due to start from next week. But many of us may still have questions about when and ...
Calls by senior business leaders for more openness and cooperation around the Government’s plan for the ongoing management of COVID-19 are strongly supported by the EMA. Chief Executive Brett O’Riley says business owners are being crippled by increasing pressure ...
Wellington (Tuesday, 2 March 2021) – The New Zealand Initiative welcomes today’s call from business leaders for greater clarity about the border. The Initiative also urges the government to further strengthen the testing regime at the border. Making ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has admitted to the NZ Herald’s Claire Trevett that ”Covid is constantly in my mind”. In an interview at the weekend, extending over two pages of the newspaper, Trevett observed: “Ardern is now very confident in her Prime Ministerial skin. There is nothing tentative about her ...
The Ministry of Health has submitted a written submission to the Health Select Committee, dismissing a Parliamentary petition signed by 17,357 Kiwis supporting ongoing access to vape flavours. Petition organiser, Nancy Loucas, who is co-director of Aotearoa ...
The New Zealand Police Association considers the IPCA report on bullying, culture and related issues within Police, to be a fair assessment of the current situation in that it identifies the key problem areas, the progress Police has recently been ...
Te Rito Maioha Early Childhood New Zealand (ECNZ) supports renewed calls for pay parity for all early learning teachers. Chief Executive, Kathy Wolfe says, “teachers want better pay and working conditions, and the message is coming through strongly ...
From being barred from competing in apartheid-era South Africa to being embraced by his adopted home country, Precious McKenzie’s is a story of perseverance and the importance of knowing your value.Watch more episodes of Scratched: Aotearoa’s Lost Sporting Legends here.Every Olympic or Commonwealth Games has its cult heroes, athletes who ...
Today Jackie Clark is at home in South Auckland, tired after a long morning of delivering care packages to the women she walks alongside as the founder of The Aunties, a support community for those living with the effects of family violence. She’s also exhausted by all the opinions being ...
The New Zealand Maori Council welcomes the review announced by the Prime Minister into PHARMAC. Executive Director, Matthew Tukaki, has called for such a review over the course of the last two years with a particular emphasis on the ways and means ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Neal Hughes, Senior Economist, Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics and Sciences (ABARES) Water markets have come in for some bad press lately, fuelled in part by the severe drought of 2019 and resulting high water prices. They have also been ...
New Zealand has the highest rate of homelessness in the developed world — and this could be the only way to fix this shocking crisis. Wealth Morning , an Auckland-based research house focused on global finance, has just announced a parliamentary housing ...
With sound knowledge of personal finance, debt, charity and social inequality, these students are learning a recipe for positive social change as early as possible.It’s well documented and well supported that children who learn financial literacy skills in school have better outcomes in later life. Even a basic concept like ...
Last week the government released their latest data on child poverty statistics and 1 in 4 children living in poverty in NZ are Pacific. Carmel Sepuloni, our Minister of Social Development also admitted that current benefit levels aren’t enough to ...
Across about a third of the country, parents are staring, empty eyed, into the middle distance, while their beloved kids unleash a special hell around them. Emily Writes shares some timely advice.Aucklanders are once again stuck at home with their children with very little notice. If you have to work ...
A Royal Commission investigation into the Lake Alice Child and Adolescent Unit indicates a far higher number of patients were admitted than previously thought. The Abuse in Care Inquiry is investigating what happened at the Manawatu-based Unit, following ...
Partial reinstall of the search mechanism.
Still to do…
1. It doesn’t remember your advanced settings
2. The @author isn’t working well.
3. Nor is the multiple selections
Could probably do with an update to the search form to allow more advanced searches.
But it is FAST. Try the topical search for “Wayne Mapp” or “robinsod”
Incidentally for mods. I know the easy way to leave message son a post before publication… It is a weird trick…
…. and now I’m sounding like one of those come-on net ads
@lprent “Replies” is working well and I love it.
Using “Replies” is really the only way a debate can develop on a posting over a period of a few days or longer.
I was pleased with that when I got it operating cleanly and without excessive overhead a few year ago.
wow, that is fast. Looks better than google by site too, I’d forgotten what it does.
Wayne Mapp says that the attack was justified because the NZers were under attack. They were entitled to defend themselves. Seems a bit odd as on the night, apart from some bullets there is no mention of weapons found or being fired at the NZers.
Listen to Wayne Mapp interview from Morning Report: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201837663/mapp-sas-not-guilty-of-war-crimes-operation-a-fiasco
He says that the soldiers were under constant attack from the village, and that bomb makers lived there. Was that confirmed in the book?
I currently don’t believe their excuse, that NZer’s were under attack as the reason to their behaviour, and I won’t believe it until I see the video footage, because there will be video of it.
On the night in question there was no report of “coming under fire.” Only some bullets were found
Therefore the justification must be that 2 weeks previously their patrol had been attacked. Therefore this would form the “self-defence” response. The attack had been from the direction of the valley and those two villages.
Seems to be a tenuous excuse to me, but maybe that is what happens in a messy war. If so, let it be part of the Terms of Engagement.
‘coming under fire’ would only be believable as an excuse if it happened in the immediate moments prior to their attack.
Revenge takes time to plan, maybe two weeks? Someone has stoked a fire, in times of ‘war’ it is easy to do, a good solider follows orders. Only some bullets were found, i wonder whose bullets and when they were fired? (i’m still reading the book, digesting it)
No wonder so many SAS have spoken to the authors, the decision of a few affecting the lives of many, not only deaths and casualties of innocents, but the PTSD and burden of guilt on those whom were good soldiers, following orders.
“Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood.
But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
– Hermann Göring (Nazi and Hitler Successor, death by suicide in 1946)
Goering was not Hitler’s appointed successor.
“Hitler appointed the following as the new Cabinet and as leaders of the nation:
President of the Reich (Reichspräsident), Minister of War (Kriegsminister) and Commander-in-Chief of the Navy (Oberbefehlshaber der Kriegsmarine): Grand Admiral Karl Dönitz
Chancellor of the Reich (Reichskanzler): Dr. Joseph Goebbels
Party Minister (Parteiminister): Martin Bormann
Foreign Minister (Aussenminister): Arthur Seyss-Inquart
Interior Minister (Innenminister): Gauleiter Paul Giesler
Commander-in-Chief of the Army (Oberbefehlshaber des Heeres): Field Marshal Ferdinand Schörner
Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force (Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe): Field Marshal Robert Ritter von Greim
Reichsführer-SS and Chief of Police (Reichsführer-SS und Chef der Deutschen Polizei): Gauleiter Karl Hanke
Minister of Economy (Wirtschaft): Walther Funk
Minister of Agriculture (Landwirtschaft): Herbert Backe
Minister of Justice (Justiz): Otto Thierack
Minister of Culture (Kultur): Dr. Gustav Adolf Scheel
Minister of Propaganda (Propaganda): Dr. Werner Naumann
Minister of Finance (Finanzen): Johann Ludwig Graf Schwerin von Krosigk
Minister of Labour (Arbeit): Dr. Theo Hupfauer
Minister of Munitions (Rüstung): Karl-Otto Saur
Director of the German Labour Front and member of the Cabinet (Leiter der Deutschen Arbeitsfront und Mitglied des Reichskabinetts: Reichsminister) Dr. Robert Ley”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_will_and_testament_of_Adolf_Hitler
EDIT… Words spoken by Herman Goring (Nazi, in 1941 Hitler designated him as his successor and deputy in all his offices. However… When Goring was informed on 22 April 1945 that Hitler intended to commit suicide, Göring sent a telegram to Hitler requesting permission to assume control of the Reich. Considering it an act of treason, Hitler removed Göring from all his positions, expelled him from the party, and ordered his arrest.) to Gustave Gilbert.
Part of a conversation Gilbert held with a dejected Hermann Goering in his cell on the evening of 18 April 1946, as the trials were halted for a three-day Easter recess:
Is that better red hand?
“Do you train for passing tests or do you train for creative inquiry?,” Noam Chomsky
Ian, you’re just causing trouble. When our friend Wayne told his lies to his colleagues in the National caucus, they accepted what he said without demur, as did our leading journalists, such as Duncan Garner, Mark Richardson and Mike Hosking.
All MSM personalities are falling over themselves to be apologists for our military blunders.
None of those are journalists. You have referenced an egotist, a sports jock/egotist and a self centered tosser/egotist.
Apple paid no tax in New Zealand for at least a decade, reports say
Investigation says company paid nothing to Inland Revenue Department because parent company registered in Australia
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/23/apple-paid-no-tax-in-new-zealand-for-at-least-a-decade-reports-say
Eleanor Catton’s new book is about rich Americans buying NZ boltholes
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/entertainment/90447796/Eleanor-Cattons-new-book-is-about-rich-Americans-buying-NZ-boltholes
contrast with….
Stressed homeless mother’s desperate plea: ‘It’s too much for me’
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503438&objectid=11821826
….So the National party immigration and foreign ownership policy mostly helps businesses, businesses only contribute about 15% of NZ taxes and some like Apple earning billions in NZ and paying no tax at all.
so those actually living here probably middle NZ, have to pay most of the taxes, local businesses compete against billion dollar companies who pay nothing and now many Kiwis don’t even have a home to rent, let alone own.
Does not make sense!
No wonder NZ is going backwards!! The global economic experiment has failed and it’s not just NZ – it is all around the world. Inequality has risen with neoliberalism.
Yet there are pathways to succeed…http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11822488
From the article
What’s this scheme and how can I get in on it? Servicing a $567,000 mortgage on $55k a year? That’s tight, even for a singleton/no kids.
yep, good on the family for getting their own home and the sacrifices they made but when you are homeless and on the benefit how realistic is it to save $250 a week?
It seems like it is legal for Apple and many other corporations to pay no tax – so you have to wonder why do the NZ government and other governments allow it and discriminate against their own people paying tax and big companies can pay nothing?
Likewise if NZ is opened up to global housing trade and have to compete against real wages overseas and god knows how many tax advantages off shore people have and the massive amount of people in the world, not only is it not moral, it is not fair.
“We know that the Maori Party is using its negotiating position to demand concessions that National would never usually give,” says Mr Seymour.
“Today ACT and UnitedFuture are offering the Prime Minister another option in order to pass the bill without undermining the rights of property owners and local communities.”
http://act.org.nz/act-and-unitedfuture-offer-national-a-way-out-of-rma-quagmire/
Super eyerolling at that.
Lest we forget the mass hysteria that pervaded this site recently and in fond memory of CV
1 the russians have not been shown to have engaged in anything more than the usual “intellegence” that is ongoing.
( i do not cite to prove a negative , that would violate logic!)
2 trumps communications were “Surveiled”
https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks/status/844632137072623616/video/1
I am disapointed that so many here seem to welcome gladly being misled
lol
1: trump specifically said that his phones in trump tower had been “tapped”. Even Nunes rejects that in his statement
2: it says ” incidentally collected information about U.S. citizens involved in the Trump transition.”. Not Trump personally, and not that the “US citizens involved in the Trump transition” were the targets of that surveillance. A farcical example of that would be if Ivanka was photographed buying a hot dog from a vendor who was under surveillance for being a message hub for an international criminal cartel.
4: did Nunes say any damned thing about the Russians? I must have missed it.
5: to recap: Trump is still a paranoid wee oompah-loompah who mashes words together.
better than wikileaks
So you are suggesting a report on what he said “really means” somehow trumps (pun intended) the actual video of him saying it?
I do agree with your point 5 ! (Yes i really do!) but would add that he is also Is cunning as a rattlesnake and has honed his skills in media manipulation over many series of the apprentice . I am not fooled for a minute that the “obama tapped my phones” tweet was unintended or unproveable he is playing the media at their own game and winning. In the end i am convinced that 1. everyone with any profile had their phones tapped. 2. Obama knew this . Yes that is only my uncited conviction but notwithstanding the atlantic’s spin, That has to be the most likely truth (to set along side “fake truth” and “alternative truth”)
OK, where in the 1m15s video wikileaks have taken out of context does Nunes say trump’s phone was tapped, that trump himself was under surveillance, or the individuals close to trump’s campaign were targets of surveillance (as opposed to being seen connected with legitimate targets of surveillance)?
Because what I said and the Atlantic article says are consistent with the wikileaks video. They are all irrelevant to the claim that trump’s phones were tapped by obama, or even that trump himself came under any surveillance whatsoever.
I would suggest that:
Any communications across the US border were monitored automatically; and
anyone in the Trump campaign who made contact with an actual target of surveillance (either from spying or international crime) would have been logged as having that contact.
But then we know all that everyone is under those conditions, because Snowden and Flynn.
What I think is [insert word “odd” here] is the idea that Obama ordered any intelligence agency to make trump a surveillance target. For what – Democrats to lose the presidency and […], enabling world domination?
He states very clearly that having identified members of trump team as incidental to the target of survellance , these names and details were then disseminated thru the intelligence community ie they became targets themselves.
Let me put this another way (dramatic reconstruction, actual facts may differ!)
Scene one (combined intellegence headquarters)
“how can we get trump?” “I know say the russians helped him to win” this while not true can be proven (heh heh) , of course the russians can be shown to have tried to infuence the us election just as they always do and we always do. And trump won, “brilliant lets do it”
scene two (trump in his regal slendour of trump towers surrounded by cheap gold plated bathroomware)
“Hmm how about this” i accuse obama of ordering the tapping of my phones this can be proven even tho its not true (“heh heh”) everyone knows the cia taps everyones phone and because the cia reports to the president he technically has ordered all that they do.
Scene three (news room of theatlantic.com)
(ChIef editor)
“Ha ha trump has accused obama of tapping his phones we can shoot this down easily by showing that it was all just normal activity and the president had nothing personally to do with it,”
(Junior copywrtier) ” but dosn’t that approach rather undermine the russians helped trump line”
Trump “heh heh”
🙄
First of all, “i.e.” does not mean “I’ve just said A, now I will pretend B is A”. Having your name go through the intelligence cycle does not mean you are a target of surveillance. It just means you have been associated with one.
Secondly, the US intelligence services do not tap everyone’s phone. They monitor international calls, and those domestic calls for which they have a court order. That is not “everyone’s phone”. It is nowhere close.
Thirdly, the president cannot legally order phones to be tapped. If the president were dumb enough to interfere in an investigation, the tap would still need a court order. That is why the allegation Trump made is a big deal: he was accusing Obama of breaking a multitude of laws, for which Obama had no motive. That is not business as usual by intelligence services, it is a highly unusual and illegal act.
Either Obama goes to jail, or Trump is full of shit.
gosh you are an expert on the internals of the CIA, who wouda thunk it.
well thats a great relief to everyone . carry on
Well, either you have read a fair chunk of what Snowden and others released and matched it against what Nunes actually said, or you have no idea what you’re talking about when you use sentences like “target of survellance” and your comments are the product of wishful thinking and orange fantasies.
yes but the thing is my (dramatic reconstruction actual facts may differ) still offers a more plausable and believable scenario (that both stories are bullshit and one is designed to head off the other) than your uncited certainties. why is that?
well, your scenario revolves around the logical impossibility of something that is untrue being “proven”, so I guess you have an alternative definition of “plausible”.
BTW, pretty much everything in this discussion is “uncited”, including trump’s claim that obama ordered him to be wiretapped. Your comments included.
I can tell you that many things that are untrue can be “proven” particularly when they are reputational attacks. The whole point is that you need to have a healthy scepticism …. especially if you dont like the person being inpugned … or their politics
The other point is that you have a pretty weird idea of what “proven” means.
Trump made a massive claim. He has a history of making claims that turned out to be bullshit. He just says whatever is convenient at the time. There is no reason to think that his massive claim about Obama ordering trump tower to be wiretapped is any different.
He might be a genius masquerading as an oaf. It might be an amazing act. But so far the signs point to him being a privileged, stupid bully who got richer and powerful because capitalism rewards privileged, stupid bullies.
Where is CV? Is he banned again?
managed to come back from a ban and get another one within hours. It was pretty funny – he got back from a ban that was for making up unsubstantiated shit, then got another ban for making up unsubstantiated (and incorrect) shit about his previous ban.
I think this one was for until october.
Ooooo – [uses reactivated search function] here’s the episode in glorious Panavision.
Hehe oops
Here’s some bedtime stories for you Xanthe.
BTW, do you really think Nunes is the best source to back up an argument about Trump’s campaign possibly having inappropriate contact with Russia?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nunes-trump-russia-investigation_us_58d2e0b5e4b02d33b748452d?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/22/politics/us-officials-info-suggests-trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians/index.html
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/schiff-russia-trump-collusion-236386
I prefer source documents to editorialising personally
Worthy aspiration. So why show us a clip of a deeply partisan political hack disseminated by an outlet that seems to have developed a penchant for manipulative partisan political games?
Because it was raw source , not someone elses opinion about what It means , who published it is not relevant
Nunes has made clear by his actions he’s more interested in protecting Trump than finding and publicising what actually happened. So his credibility is on the same level as Trump’s. There’s no discernible relationship between his words and reality. That wikileaks choose to spread this fertilizer in an apparent attempt to defend their past actions further trashes their credibility.
Digby reckons it’s just another coincidence in a big fat series of coincidences.
Then on March 15, in the wake of the president’s manic early-morning tweetstorm accusing former President Barack Obama of arranging for him to be wiretapped, Trump demonstrated his own awe-inspiring clairvoyance. Trump told Fox News’ Tucker Carlson that despite all the denials from every institution and person in a position to know, “You’re going to find some very interesting items coming to the forefront over the next two weeks.”
Wouldn’t you know it? On Wednesday House Intelligence Committee chair Rep. Devin Nunes, R-Calif., was shown some documents by a “source” that had him so up in arms he couldn’t even take the time to alert the other committee members before he ran to the White House to show the president. When asked if he felt vindicated by this alleged bombshell, Trump replied:
I somewhat do. I must tell you I somewhat do. I very much appreciated the fact that they found what they found, I somewhat do.
It’s amazing how Trump and his people are able to see into the future this way, isn’t it?
http://digbysblog.blogspot.co.nz/2017/03/yes-it-almost-certainly-came-from-white.html
well good on “Digby” …….. I guess that settles it then!
Andre
I am unable to discern any actual content in your last post. Apart from attacks on the credibility of sources based on attacks on their credibility…….. nothing!
WTF ? ?? is this what substituts for discorse here?
A hoot yet a good point:
“A conservation trust manager angry at Environment Minister Nick Smith’s swimmable river stance has challenged him to a boxing match – with the loser to “frolic” in one of Christchurch’s most polluted swimming holes.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11824103
I suspect the manager will be powered by righteous fury and pummel Smith.
Jacinda totally OWNED Paula in Parliament today.
Feeling very proud of Labours Deputy 😀
Yes pullya is going to be fun to watch as karma cycles back to run over her dogma
Just watched it thanks Cinny. Jacinda calm measured questions well ordered.
Paula discomfited, unable to answer for the PM, lacking her usual spite/arrogance.
Well done Jacinda.
Rogue state thirsting for blood
http://normanfinkelstein.com/2017/03/21/the-vampire-state-thirsting-for-blood/