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Open mike 23/04/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 23rd, 2012 - 139 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

139 comments on “Open mike 23/04/2012 ”

  1. muzza 1

    Not sure what to make of this on balance

    I would say to the guy take the business back to the UK mate and see how many people you get lining up for the jobs. Use of the word disgrace..LOL the pomes are some of the laziest human beings I have ever worked with anywhere….

    But really its likely part of the campaign to demonise the unemployed by showing that there are “jobs” out there…I’m sure we will see a series of such articles now…

    These jobs must have been way Key was referring to with the “Brighter Future” slogan!

    [lprent: I must have missed this morning. Denigrating any group (pomes) on the basis of the ethnicity is just stupid, inherently inaccurate given human variability, and violates the policy. Banned for a week. ]

    • Te Reo Putake 1.1

      The common element in that story is the boss. I’m thinking he’s not actually paying them for the work they are doing; offering them a few days ‘work experience’ or similar, then bleating when they don’t hang around.

      • felix 1.1.1

        Yep, or paying them for 40 hrs for a set amount of work that’d take anyone 80 so they end up working for $10 ph if they want to keep the job.

        Seen it plenty of times.

        • rosy 1.1.1.1

          Agree, the mention of a franchise in the future and the ‘up to’ on the $20/hr are the clues. He’s trying to get them to put in the work now for future benefit (if it ever eventuates) when you can employ someone else to put in horrendous hours.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.2

          That’s pretty much it. It even says so in the article:-

          “So while a person new to the cleaning industry will put up with that for a couple of weeks, after that period of time they’re utterly exhausted.”

          He’s pretty much working them to death and then complaining that they don’t hang round to die.

    • Vicky32 1.2

      the pomes are some of the laziest human beings I have ever worked with anywhere….

      As a ‘pom’, all I can say is “Charmed, I am sure”. You could have made your point without the usual New Zealand anti-English slurs, and why you chose not to, is one of the reasons why no matter how long I live here, despite that my mother was a New Zealander, I will never identify myself as a Kiwi… (after all, the Kiwi eats, roots and leaves….)

      • muzza 1.2.1

        I am half English, and worked there for a very long time, and while I did not mean to cause anyone direct offence, I can see how my words have done so.
        V32, this was my experience, and when I read an article about a bloke from Newcastle, England moaning about people in this country being laxy, and using words like disgraceful, I will put my make comment, and it is a first hand comment.

        • Vicky32 1.2.1.1

          Fair enough, Muzza – I am simply hyper-sensitive on the subject owing to having copped a shed-load of abuse at Primary school when my sister and I started with Liverpool accents.
          “Get back to Pongolia” was the mildest (and quite incomprehensible, until my NZ born brother in law explained the term decades later). The slur about Pacific Islanders using their baths to store coal, which I heard in the 1970s, was being used against us in the 1950s and 1960s.
          Lazy, dirty, whiners… I’ve heard it all, and so adopted the NZ accent as protective colouring. (But I, thankfully, couldn’t make it stick.)
           

          • muzza 1.2.1.1.1

            Shame to hear that you had to deal with that V32, ignorance is an ugly trait however it shows itself.

            I’m a huge fan of the scouse accent, and really enjoyed Liverpool as a city when I went there..

            Never be ashamed of where you are from, and never let anyone else have the power to take away pride in where you are from.

            Politicians, its seems want to take away pride in NZ, and appears that this is an extension of what has been done in the UK also…

            We must keep our identities, and be happy with who we are.

            • Vicky32 1.2.1.1.1.1

              We must keep our identities, and be happy with who we are.

              Absolutely true Muzza – thank you! 🙂

  2. rosy 2

    I’m watching the results of the French presidential race with interest. In part because of hard left policies of Melechon with his hard left agenda, and the Socialist candidate Hollande who has a profile and attitude to politics that is very similar to that of Shearer. So it’s President Bling Bling against Monsieur Flanby (caramel pudding). Sound familiar?

    Although Hollande has been lambasted as the bland to Sarkozy’s bling, the man with no government experience and even less of a profile on the international stage, his very ordinariness seemed to play in his favour as the campaign progressed.
    Even the nickname given to him of Monsieur Flanby, after a caramel pudding, over his perceived wobbly political views, lost its relevance as he elaborated his programme. If it was heavy on social “justice” and “fairness”, it was not always that nice: renegotiating the deal struck with Germany on reining in France’s budget deficit, regulating financial markets, increasing taxes on large companies and the very rich. Hollande has also pledged a 75% tax band on those earning over €1m a year.
    Asked by the left-leaning newspaper Libération why his campaign had not sparked “élan and enthusiasm” and appeared not to have “inflamed the electors”, Hollande remained courteous. “I’m not asking people to marry me … I’m not campaigning just to make people happy. I have a higher responsibility than that,” he replied.

    Despite lots of talk of dissatisfaction with candidates it appears the voter turnout was quite good, around 80%, with Hollande taking the early exit polls.
    Hollande 28.4%
    Sarkozy 25. 5%
    Le Pen 19.6%
    Melenchon 11.7%

    Marine Le Pen of the National Front puts a spanner in the works with a second round of voting to come – this F@scist party probably gained a lot from the recent murders in Toulouse – she’s also anti-financiers (I’ve heard it described as ‘social protection and sovereignty’) – pushing her talk to what would be our Labour traditional voters and beyond the usual racists. Scary.

    Melenchon doubled the vote of the Party de Gauche, but I was hoping for more and the pollsters got it wrong with much of the disenchanted left-wing going to Le Pen. The Green candidate finished on 2%. A number of smaller parties make up the rest of the vote.

    Commentators are saying the extremists will decide the second round. Melenchon has already pulled Hollande further left due to the huge crowds he attracted in the campaign. The political ideology was seceded by Sarkozy and Hollande to the Left and Right Front parties. The centrist candidate, at around 9% dropped to half his previous tally. It appears he won’t support any candidate fro the next round.

    Anyway, it’s really made me think about Shearer’s strategy: aiming for the provinces, and everyman, and not ‘presidential’ according to the French. I’m not sure what it means, but for me it’s very interesting to see the similarities between Hollande and Shearer and to reflect on Shearer’s stragtegy and if it will work in Aotearoa (maybe only if we have a Melenchon and don’t have a Le Pen). The second round will give a clearer picture methinks.

    Edit: Sarkozy rising and Le Pen falling as the bigger booths come in.

  3. Uturn 3

    haha what a typical Harold story. I feel dumber just having read it. National secretary of the Service and Food Workers Union, John Ryall, basically accuses the guy, if not of out-and-out lying, but of withholding the truth. The guy himself unintentionally admits to a history of choosing the wrong kind of worker and EMA basically tells him that since his industry isn’t high enough up the social ladder, what has it to do with them?

    How’s that Brighter Future looking NZ?

    In my experience, it’s always hard to find people to work like slaves for similarly poor conditions – whatever the industry. There is nothing wrong with someone telling an employer that, “Hey, I suck at this job”, and the employer should be smart enough to figure out that a squadron of struggling incompetent employees isn’t a recipe for a healthy or profitable business. Our intrepid employer should get out of cleaning and into something that the local resources can do well. That would be the smart move – matching what the locals are good at with local resources. Isn’t that what the unemployed are told to do: diverisify, shift location, change industries, take a pay cut, retrain, accept the acceptable?

    • Uturn 3.1

      bah! This should attach to post #1

    • Vicky32 3.2

      Isn’t that what the unemployed are told to do: diverisify, shift location, change industries, take a pay cut, retrain, accept the acceptable?

      Certainly! In my case “lower your sights, why not work at a rest home, or MickeyDs?” ….
      Would could, can’t won’t, as my sister used to say… I am way to old for MickeyDs, they want teens, so they can pay youth rates, and fire them when they hit 18… as WINZ ought to know.

  4. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 4

    Anyone see Shearer on Would I Lie to You last night?

    • Sitiveni 4.1

      Yes, and I have to ask who in his PR team set the man up to appear on a show where he was highlighted as a good liar! Just wait until he’s asking questions in Parliament this week on the Crafar farms or the bribe known as the Auckland Convention Centre. Instead of having the government on the ropes, they’ll be turning the tables on him asking how can you trust anything the man says when he’s been branded the best liar on that dumb TV show!

      This is almost equivalent to Brash being pictured walking the plank!

      For gawds sake get rid of those dumb PR advisors before they ruin what is Labours best chance to counter.

    • ianmac 4.2

      Yes. Only watched because Shearer was going to be on. Blokey. Having fun. Henry gave him the “best liar” award of the night but with a certain degree of malice.

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 4.2.1

        Was it undignified for the leader of the opposition to appear on a light entertainment television show?

        • locus 4.2.1.1

          i don’t know. Was it shameful and embarrassing for our nation’s pm to appear on bbc hardtalk and say what he said?

          • Sitiveni 4.2.1.1.1

            Yes when he demonstrated his lack of education.

            • ianmac 4.2.1.1.1.1

              The underlying thread is that the people who watch such shows get to know just who is David Shearer. Apparently many in general public do not know or care. Exposure good.

              • Colonial Viper

                Agree there. Not that the forum is particularly dignified, but the MSM exposure is very helpful to Labour.

            • Fortran 4.2.1.1.1.2

              Lack of education.

              Hell he is/was a trained teacher.

        • joe90 4.2.1.2

          Was it undignified for the leader of the opposition to appear on a light entertainment television show?

          Compared to the snivelling toe sucking of the PM, Shearer’s appearance was positively Churchillian..

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 4.2.1.2.1

            I understood that the left’s problem with Key’s appearance on Letterman was that it was inherently demeaning for the PM to appear on a light entertainment programme. I had understood that this was so irrespective of his performance on the show.

            Did I get that wrong?

            • ianmac 4.2.1.2.1.1

              I think it was the lack of dignity and cringing demeanor on Letterman, on a par with the mince walk which was so awful.
              To actually appear as a real guest on the Letterman Show could have been advantageous.

            • freedom 4.2.1.2.1.2

              At the time it was a lucky dip of views both pro and con. There certainly were those who would agree the entire idea was below the dignity of the PM’s office, but it was doing the Top Ten spot that slammed the lid shut on any debate.

              then again, plenty of media puppets present the Top Ten;
              : Homer Simpson
              : Justin Bieber
              : Barack Obama

          • joe90 4.2.1.2.2

            My objection was that the oik couldn’t get himself an appearance so he settled for the idiot spot.

    • tc 4.3

      Saw the promo and thought OMG has it come to this…subjecting yourself to a low brow gameshow hosted by a former Nat Party candidate.

      Henry would always take an opportunity to boot a labour polly and as for being seen as a credible alternative to the serious issues at hand….epic fail in my books.

      How’s that choice of leader working for you Labour caucus geniuses…..Trev’s relaxed of course.

      • Sitiveni 4.3.1

        This is more poor PR advice rather than anything to do with the selection of the leader. IN my view this is akin to the Brash “walking the plank” photo op. Henry highlighted DS as the best liar of the night and that was a theme taken up by the opposing team. Now he needs to have some good lines to bat away the government targetting him as a liar although perhaps that’s perhaps against standing orders to say it directly but watch this space.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.4

      Oh god, Shearer tried the John Key Letterman trick?

  5. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 5

    See the government is as popular as ever:

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Poll-National-remains-strong/tabid/1607/articleID/251377/Default.aspx

    What will it take for the people to “wake up”, do you think?

    • Rosie 5.1

      A dose of anti denial serum

    • Te Reo Putake 5.2

      Actually, Gormless, this poll, and Friday’s Roy Morgan, show the Government has continued to lose support this year. National remain below the point at which they can govern alone and two of their three support parties have ceased to register any voter interest at all. The left alternative are mid forties between them and the gap is made up by Winston Peters, who is not motivated to help the Nats as well.
       
      Slowly, slowly, catchee Shonkey!

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 5.2.1

        This poll shows support for the government up 2.3%. How is this losing support?

        • Te Reo Putake 5.2.1.1

          Support for National is up, support for the Government is down. UF and ACT have ceased to exist, the MP is limping along. And this in the 3news/Reid poll, the one most biased to the right. Have a look at the far more accurate Roy Morgan, the rot has well and truly set in.

          • Pete George 5.2.1.1.1

            The far more accurate Morgan poll that shows goverment coalition support at 52%? Which would translate into more than 52% of seats. Strange looking rot.

            The far more accurate Morgan poll that shows UF at 1% which is higher than usual there? TV3 has not shown anything for UF for yonks, even during the election.

            • Te Reo Putake 5.2.1.1.1.1

              Look at the year so far in the RM, Pete. It’s not good news for you righties.

              • Chris

                The first RM of the year had the government at 49.5% which has climbed to 52%? Happy to admit that is well within the margin of error but is still quite far from bad news for righties?

              • I think most righties – and centries like me – will be surprised that the National vote has held up so well considering the issues that have been on the go over the last few weeks.

                I think a widespread view is “not to keen on some of their policies but there’s no credible alternative”.

                Labour has to somehow change into a credible alternative.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Agreed, Pete. An improved Labour performance is needed, but not at the Green’s expense, hopefully. We’ve got to start taking the middle ground back from National, while building a solid working relationship with them and, shudder, NZF.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Pete George centrist? Selling off our assets is centrist? What BS.

            • bad12 5.2.1.1.1.2

              Percentages can ‘lie’,Labour has since the election gained,according to the TV3 poll,some 20,000 votes that it did not have at the 2011 election,

              For reasons we believe that lie in the mis-use of the margin of error,IE, continually applying the margin of error to National as the high side of the judged % of the poll while applying that margin of error to Labour and NZFirst from the low side of the percentage we continually have within these polls National polling ,more than its actual vote on election day,

              Apply the margin of error to National as the low side of its % in the poll while applying to Labour and NZFirst the % from the high side of that margin of error gives an entirely different picture of the political landscape,

              Labour tho can be a little satisfied with the 20,000 extra votes as judged by the TV3 poll…

      • Vicky32 5.2.2

        National remain below the point at which they can govern alone

        Not that Matthew Hooten would admit that, this morning! :0

    • locus 5.3

      Economic and social performance indicators don’t lie, and when it comes to the next election it will not be about right or left wing ideology, but about track record, and which parties are more believable when they talk about how they will increase jobs, stimulate economic growth, cut debt and tackle corruption and tax avoidance.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.3.1

        Can’t increase jobs as economic growth finished with Peak Oil, cutting government debt is actually easy as all that’s needed to do is raise taxes, private debt is a little more difficult and the corruption is going to be difficult as it’s become systemic, so much so that we can’t even see it.

    • felix 5.4

      “What will it take for the people to “wake up”, do you think?”

      A credible opposition. Fullstop.

  6. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 6

    Neil Diamond married:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/22/neil-diamond-married-katie-mcneil_n_1444148.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

    There goes another fantasy.

  7. David 7

    David Cunliffe on Breakfast this morning: simply stunning. This is how you do it.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10800725

    • tc 7.1

      Makes you wonder where Shonkey and co would be if this lad was leading the charge not Mr guns on the inside gameshow contestant…..remind me where nice guys finish ?

    • Cunliffe has that extraordinary ability to express a complex concept simply.  And interviewers always appear respectful of him because he listens to their question and answers it rather than trot out pre ordained attack lines.

      Labour really needs to use him more.  If only his performance could be matched against that of David Parker and the more talented person allowed to hold the senior role.

      • felix 7.2.1

        “Labour really needs to use him more.”

        Yep, I can think of one role in particular they should be using him for…

        • muzza 7.2.1.1

          Makes you wonder why they didn’t, and as a result of that not happening, why they are not!

          Two sides of the same coin…

        • Kevin Welsh 7.2.1.2

          +1 Felix

          Cunliffe and Little

          Can’t be bullshitted. Come across extremely well on TV and have personality and charisma.

          Shearer does not do it for me on any level.

          • mike e 7.2.1.2.1

            Shearer needs to go if by xmas things haven’t improved Cunliffe is more Natural

    • felix 7.3

      ps I think this is the video David mentioned: http://tvnz.co.nz/breakfast-news/monday-april-23-4845240/video

      • Tigger 7.3.1

        Lol Felix…can’t say I disagree…

      • freedom 7.3.2

        love the interviewer’s sardonic ‘well that aspect remains to be seen’, when discussing the (forgone conclusion of) rising power prices that will result when our energy companies have all been thrown into the firesale. Seems Toad is not a gender specific term after all.

  8. Jackal 8

    Romney is a joke

    It’s little wonder that Barack Obama’s so-called Truth Team has decided to make fun of the opposition. What else can they do when presented with such vast amounts of material…

  9. just saying 9

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/father-of-shot-teenager-slams-sydney-police/story-e6frg6nf-1226335711058

    It’s weird. When I saw the first TV coverage that night, as I understood it, eyewitnesses described the police officers walking up to the stationary car full of unarmed kids from 13 yrs up and opening fire on them execution style. I took Draco’s word for it that the cops were trying to protect the public, but that wasn’t my understanding at the time.

    Since then it has been difficult to find any information on what happened, and the article above seems to be (possibly legally) guarded in describing the salilent events.

    Still as clear as mud.

  10. The below link is to my own blog site, just so no one goes there without wanting to. I think this will be relevant to the interests of the users of this site though. Feel free to copy and paste any of the information when discussing this with people.

    Seven Myths Deniers Use To ‘Debunk’ Peak Oil, Debunked

    Peak oil is a fact, not a theory. From US conventional oil production peaking in 1970 to global conventional oil production peaking in 2006 the figures are indisputable. Even institutions such as the International Energy Agency (IEA) and publications like The Economist that are not known for alarmism have admitted that oil production from conventional sources has peaked. So why are there still commentators out there that refuse to believe peak oil? Similar to the climate change debate many, but not all of the most vocal deniers tend to be politically conservative, pro-business and by their refusal to take into account basic statistics, anti-science. They are ideologically opposed to what will happen now that we are living in a post-peak world in terms of reduced energy use per capita and the inevitable downsizing of the global economy. So what are their arguments and why are they so wrong? The top seven are listed below:

    http://www.southernlimitsnz.com/2012/04/seven-myths-deniers-use-to-debunk-peak.html

    • Thanks Southern.  I have to go and make submissions today on Auckland Transport’s Regional Land Transport strategy.  The document is meant to look 30 years ahead into the future but does not mention peak oil …

      Your post summarises the situation well. 

      • Thanks Micky. Good luck with the submission.

        You might be interested to know that Wellington Regional Council, Otago Regional Council and Taranaki Regional Council all at least mention peak oil in their transport plans.

        • Bored 10.1.1.1

          Lets hope none of the cornucopian techno idiots start taking nuclear when they realise they are short of oil and hydro to meet current demands. Here’s the big reason:

          Waste storage. I think it is possible for us to store waste for the short term. It’s the longer term that is a bit more doubtful, and regardless of the duration it’s an expensive undertaking. The 2010 documentary Into Eternity on Finland’s waste storage plans reminded me of a few things: a) Finland is a small country, and yet the scale of the waste site is huge, b) planning for the 100 years it’ll take to finish the waste site is hard enough (will there be the money needed to complete it? how is it possible to plan for 100 years when we can’t plan beyond the next congressional election?) let alone the hundreds of thousands of years it needs to survive intact, and c) they’ve been working on this for a decade already, while no other country has even the beginnings of a solution. (The documentary was a bit sad: Finland has assembled a number of expert, sincere people trying to solve a problem that you sense they realize cannot be solved.)

          Mere hundreds of thousands of years duty of care……talk about sell your descendants down the river.

          http://energybulletin.net/stories/2012-04-22/wisdom-deathbed-conversion

          • Southern Limits 10.1.1.1.1

            Well the big thing with that Bored is that we are facing a liquid fuels crisis, not an electricity production crisis. You can’t run the current world car fleet on nuclear generated electricity. And for anyone to suggest that we can easily build a new fleet of purely electric cars is living on another planet.

            • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1.1

              And its not just building the new cars, its about building the charging infrastructure which would be required.

              And note that you can transfer as much energy at a petrol pump in 60s with a standard car, as you can in 2 days charging an electric vehicle out of a socket.

              The magic of fossil fuels – humanity has nothing which can match it.

          • Vicky32 10.1.1.1.2

            Lets hope none of the cornucopian techno idiots start taking nuclear when they realise they are short of oil and hydro to meet current demands.

            From what I read, it’s not the ‘techno idiots’ who talk nuclear, but the global warming/climate change alarmists! I was rather taken aback to see in New Scientist last week, a bitter little article by a guy who was deeply unhappy that people are talking anti-nuclear, as ‘obviously’ nuclear power is the only answer to climate change! Yes, let’s go nuclear, what could possibly go wrong? Er – Fukushima?
            But the fact that Greenies all want nuclear power stations everywhere so’s we won’t face climate change, is one of the reasons why I distrust (a) Greenies and (b) Climate change hysterics.
            It makes zero sense to me that having spent the 1980s opposed to nuclear weapons and power plants, I am now, as a person on the left, expected to embrace nuclear power so as to avoid ‘global (hah!) warming…

            • Pascal's bookie 10.1.1.1.2.1

              But the fact that Greenies all want nuclear power stations everywhere so’s we won’t face climate change, is one of the reasons why I distrust (a) Greenies and (b) Climate change hysterics.

              You can be at rest about that, because it’s not a fact. I don’t know of a single Green in NZ who thinks we should build Nuclear plants everywhere, or even at all.

              Are you sure you didn;t just read that one guy, and assume that because he talked about AGW then he must be a ‘greenie’ and that that therefore all greenies would agree with him/

              that would be an error.

              • Vicky32

                You can be at rest about that, because it’s not a fact. I don’t know of a single Green in NZ who thinks we should build Nuclear plants everywhere, or even at all.

                That’s very reassuring… No, it hasn’t been just that one guy, it seems to be the general New Scientist view. Almost every issue they have a story about climate change, and 60% of them promote nuclear power as The Answer. 🙁

                • Pascal's bookie

                  I would expect New Scientist to be biased towards technology based solutions ( get better energy sources), so that’s not too much of a surprise. The ‘anti-nuclear’ folks the guy was bitter at would be Greens for the most part, who are biased towards behavioural solutions, ie, ‘use less energy’.

                • felix

                  So just to be clear, are you standing behind “Greenies all want Nuclear plants everywhere” or not?

                  • Vicky32

                    So just to be clear, are you standing behind “Greenies all want Nuclear plants everywhere” or not?

                    Why so hostile? Don’t be silly. After PB’s comment, I stand corrected, why would you think otherwise?

                    • felix

                      Didn’t intend any hostility. Can’t see any on re-reading either.

                      I was just wondering. It seemed quite an outrageous statement to make so you had to have guessed it would be noticed and/or questioned. Because of that I figured it might be something you had a very strong opinion on or a story to tell or some other info.

                    • OneTrack

                      Sounded pretty hostile to me

  11. I’m in awesome company, meet the translation team!

    • freedom 11.1

      The long awaited public admittance that the 9/11 Commission was “unable to provide a full explanation of the collapse” was perhaps the most illustrative fact showing how few deniers have looked at the report at all. This is odd when you consider that so many preach its findings as if quoting from some sacred text. 10,000 hallow pages that fail to follow basic investigative method. 10,000 pages that decided to openly ignore the ninety four steel columns that were the super-structure of WTC 1&2. 10,000 pages that make no attempt to accurately present forensic evidence of the crime scene because let’s face it, the whole scene was shipped offshore faster than you can say Jeb Bush. 10,000 pages where testimony was taken without oaths, witnesses or accountability. 10,000 pages that fail to mention the third tower that fell that day. When they finally do convene a study on the third tower they are forced to change their final official findings three times.

      Endless ranks of deniers hammer on about how the [9/11 Omission Commission] Report answers all our questions and the presentation of any physical evidence to the contrary is somehow harmful to the greater good. Like that pesky notion of democratic freedom getting in the way of State sanctioned liberty. If dear reader, you are one of the flock who believe the official story then please explain how you agree with reports that not only fail to explain the collapse of three steel framed skyscrapers but actually fail to follow the known laws of physics.

    • Te Reo Putake 11.2

      Can you translate ‘no evidence’ into gibberish, Ev? Oh, wait, here’s freedom to do it for you!

      • travellerev 11.2.1

        Wow, some of the most eloquent, beautiful languages discarded as gibberish. You really show your colours there P. How many of those languages do you speak? Oh wait, none of them and you have only a very moderate grasp of your own language.

        And for those of you who want to hear some of the evidence compiled by Architects, Engineers, and Scientists here are some of the most important findings about what happened on 911. Don’t let an indjit bully you on what to think and make up your own mind

        • Te Reo Putake 11.2.1.1

          “Wow, some of the most eloquent, beautiful languages discarded as gibberish.”
           
          Nah, not even close. Here’s what gibberish means.
           
          Freedom: Ten years and counting, still no evidence. Get back to me when you have some. Cheers.

          • muzza 11.2.1.1.1

            LOL – Give evidence supporting the “state’s version of events” is in fact accurate…get’s funky at that stage eh, because you have to hand over your faith to people with a history of being dishonest. While you’re gathering that “empirical evidence”, you can wash the blood of the millions dead/maimed as a result of the wars, the theft via the wars, and human misery via the wars, and the collapse because of the deceit. Believing the story is supporting the death deceit by proxy!

            People don’t want truth, they want lies, actually they demand lies, its how they have been trained. Most have no idea this has happened to them or how, let alone why! Their minds are not equipped for truth, any more than politicians are allowed to speak it, or the media are allowed to report it!

      • freedom 11.2.2

        oooh ouch, Te reo putake such biting words will hurt my fragile ego. If you honestly believe that a couple of isolated fires caused the collapse of a 47 story steel-framed skyscraper then you must be a nervous wreck every time you boil an egg on your stove or throw a log into your woodburner. I was one of the unlucky few watching BBC in the early hours of September 12 when the first newscast was transmitted to the world, it smelt wrong then and it still stinks today. I have been actively investigating and discussing 9/11 ever since.

        So if you feel a game of patti-tennis with a few hackneyed liner notes regurgitated adnauseum will eradicate the mountains of evidential data that has been collected over the past decade, you will be sadly dissapointed that I am not going to play along. If you actually want to debate evidence in a rational format then go to one of the many truth blogs and share your obviously strong views. Please do let us all know when and where you plan to eviscerate the evidence that has been studied by thousands of professionals, it should be a good show.

  12. Adrian 12

    Wet-behind-the-ears advisor to David Cuniliffe ” Hey, here’s a good idea. Go on a game show that you have to lie on to win ” . DC ” Fuck off! “.

    • belladonna 12.1

      Dont you mean David Shearer?

      • bad12 12.1.1

        Nah that commenter appears to be giving David Cunliff a plug for any future leadership bid by creating an allusion to what Cunliff would have told an advisor should one have told Him of bein g invited to appear on that Dickheads supposed comedy show on TV3,

        As opposed to David Shearer actually consenting to being insulted by that f**king nutbar with His ”David Shearer is the best liar on tonights show and He is a Socialist as well”…

  13. felix 13

    Josie Pagani speaking for “the left” on radio nz this morning.

    Waste of a perfectly good microphone.

    • tc 13.1

      Says alot about RNZ’s direction under Griffin that they continue to use this person. There’s plenty of much better alternatives.

  14. cptain hook 14

    radio new zealand is weak overall.
    their standards have slipped and the positions have become sinecures ofa sort for noodle heads.
    kathryn ryan is shrill.
    chris laidlaw isa dope.
    brain krump is oily and thick and should be a used car salesman.
    and kim hill is frigid.
    and they are all inveterate users of interrogatives and other slipshod rhetorical tricks and sloppy verbal elisions.
    and its serious politics you want?

  15. s y d 15

    Starter for 10 – who would write this….

    “I am outraged that as a hard-working taxpayer I am helping bankroll strikers at Rangiuru who choose not to work and then ask for a handout”

    • Uturn 15.1

      An ignorant twat. His arguments in the editorial display a deep ignorance of how and why our economic system functions the way it does and a stale disrespect for the law. I swear, being a “proud capitalist” is really just a euphemism for self inflicted brain damage.

    • freedom 15.2

      an idiot who does not understand the difference between a lock out and a strike !

      and from an Editor no less. The liquid incendiary of journalistic integrity has been dessicated. The powder that remains could barely be used as tinder for a billy-pot.

  16. bad12 16

    Labour’s Jacinda Adhern on RadioNZ at noon explaining that the ‘new’ dole for those under the age of 18 will as evidenced by the same ‘changes’ having been implemented in England where the private providers chasing the offered bonuses from Government indulge in ongoing ‘frauds”,

    the whole ISM is a fraud Jacinda,create a monetary system that creates unemployment to keep inflation low so as to protect the ‘wealth’ of the few and save on the mortgages paid by the ownership class and what we have is a system of ‘misery making’ being leached off of by those who are all in favor of such creation and fraudulent mis-use simply becomes a tool of ‘wealth gathering’…

  17. Guest Post: Fiscal prudence and transport priorities

    A worthwhile guest post by Julie-Anne Genter on transport costs and options, following up from her recent questions in Parliament.

    • bad12 17.1

      Whats up,you seem to be attempting to change your over-coat,not by any chance angling for a ‘spot’ on the Green party List are you,

      I Suppose its a UF Party thing with the leader the ‘hair-do from Ohariu’ having the dubious ability of being able to,chameleon like, change His colours at will,

      I still believe your best bet to gain a seat in the House is to stage a palace coup and roll the prick…

      • Pete George 17.1.1

        Genter seems to be a worthwhile addition to the seats in parliament. That seemed to be a good post that I thought would be of interest to some here – Genter’s parliamentary performance has been complimented here.

        I’ve often complimented and promoted what I think is worthwhile political discussion or performance. Seems odd you’re dissing me for posting that link. Are you stuck on attacking the messenger regardless?

        • bad12 17.1.1.1

          Dissing you for posting the link???far from it,at the time Ms Genter was aquainting Gerry Brownlee in the House with the fact that He didn’t appear to have any in-depth knowledge of any of the cost benefit projections on the Roads of No significance National intend to waste billions of dollars building I was commenting here on the Standard praising Her performance in the House,

          And if My memory serves me correctly also suggesting that the younger members of the Green caucus while having done an excellent job on Brownlee in the House could have embarrassed the over-indulged Minister even further by using Standing orders to raise a Point of order with the House speaker over Brownlees insulting patronizing non-answers to the questions raised by Ms Genter,

          Far from attacking You as the messenger I am simply pointing out in Your best interests that I see as Your only possible means of gaining a seat in the House of Representatives would be to roll the ‘Hair-do from Ohariu’ in a palace coup and hope that the majority of electoirs in the electorate didnt in fact notice the change,(a quick dye job followed by a perm and set should just about do the trick)…

          • Pete George 17.1.1.1.1

            Gaining a seat in the House of Representatives has never been a priority for me, and at best it was a very long shot.

            Metiria Turei stood for Dunedin North with openly no intention of trying to win the seat, she put all her efforts into getting party votes. She used the electorate campaign as a means of promoting what she wanted.

            Similarly I chose to stand for Dunedin North because it gave me a platform. It enabled me to make very useful contacts, with politicians, parties, media and the public. I did look for Nek Minut opportunities but they don’t come up very often, and didn’t.

            There was an outside chance of riding in to parliament on the back of a worm type quirk in the campaign, but cups of tea and crafty old campaigners clipped that opportunistic ticket. So eighth on the NZF list did make it (unexpectedly), and eighth on the UF list didn’t. I moved on from that at the end of November.

            The next election is nearly three years away, so in the meantime I’m continuing with my original goals.

            • bad12 17.1.1.1.1.1

              The difference between Green co-leader Metiria Turei and you would seem to be that Metiria is in for the long haul, Her path to the House of Parliament being a long march over the decades starting in the late 1980’s,

              Unlike United First who give every appearance of believing in nothing and everything all at the same time the Greens and Metiria Turei have a long held set of principles and beliefs that they have refused to at any time in the Parliament trade for the 5 minute power rush or the butte on leather Beamer ride,

              Holding firmly to such principles and beliefs as opposed to believing in nothing and everything all at the same time has seen Metiria Turei and the Green Party secure ongoing increases in the votes neccessary to gain seats in the Parliament whereas believing in everything and nothing at the same time has seen the ‘Hair-do from Ohariu’ rewarded in kind by the electorate with continually decreasing share of the vote…

              • deuto

                Excellent points, Bad 12 – well put. That is why I have great respect for Turei and most of the other Green MPs, as opposed to my now almost complete disrespect for Dunne. I am prepared to give him an opportunity to improve his ratings – by not voting for the Sky City deal and partial asset sales. But not holding my breath, notwithstanding that the UF/Nats C and S agreement should be giving him some discomfort.

                • bad12

                  Tah much for the ups,Green Party policy far from being touchy feely ‘hippy dreams’ comes from the fracturing of the left in the 1980’s,the politics of Metiria Turei were honed within the gutter politic of ‘Rogernomics’ and later ‘Ruthenaisia’, much of which could never be described within the circles of power as pretty,

                  In short there is nothing soft or touchy feely about Ms Turei as Ann Tolley as Education Minister found out when a 30 second withering blast from Metiria shut the then Ministers babbling mouth and was the cream on the cake which ensured Tolley’s removal as Education Minister,(that’s not to say that Tolley’s replacement, Parata, is any better in the position),

                  The Green Party is in for the long haul,the beliefs and principles will not be traded for a sniff of power and given time, possibly as early as the 2014 election I fully expect that Green MP’s will secure electorate seats in the Parliament in both wellington and Auckland as a matter of course…

      • felix 17.1.2

        Pete has complimented Genter before.

        Her straight up, persistent, evidence-based style of questioning should impress people right across the political spectrum, I’d have thought.

        • deuto 17.1.2.1

          Agreed, as someone who has been very impressed with Genter’s performance – and I recall the exchange of earlier opinions where for once I agreed with PG.

          • mickysavage 17.1.2.1.1

            I recall the exchange of earlier opinions where for once I agreed with PG.

            I have done the same too recently.  It is rather unnerving … 

            • deuto 17.1.2.1.1.1

              Much as he annoys the hell out of me at times – and i refuse to bite in most instances – I actually don’t think he is totally beyond redemption ……. as opposed to some who come on here! Won’t mention any particular names/ or rather singular or multiple aliases Writing styles usually give the latter (multiples) away.

            • Anne 17.1.2.1.1.2

              Yes, I once wholeheartedly agreed with PG on Red Alert. Confess to forgetting what it was about, but think it had something to do with electoral reform. Whatever, I wish PG would confine himself to his ‘sensible’ statements and leave the rest floating in the ether. He wouldn’t get such a ribbing here if he did.

              For starters Pete: your leader has done it again over the Sky City gaming affair. Shown himself to be nothing but a self-serving hypocrite. Don’t cover up for him this time. Surely you know by now he’s not worth it!

              • deuto

                Haven’t caught up with Dunne’s view on the Sky City issue, and would be interested to know what his stance is, what he has said etc. but would prefer it to come from some-one other than PG.

                Got the feeling from a PG comment here earlier today (?) that some level of disillusionment /looking elsewhere may be setting in – if so, would like to give him some leeway as afterall we are all human and need some space etc to sort ourselves rather than having to be on the defensive. Feeling rather mellow tonight – must be the wine after abstinence following a nasty tooth removal last week!

  18. Campbell Larsen 18

    The Mexican letter

    Parker has expressed a very real concern. The move to a shared currency would cripple NZ.
    There is no comparison with Jabba Brownlee. Note the spin in the stuff link – “Is mexico a cigarette based economy?”

    I’m betting that Parker never said it was, but if anyone has the transcript then prove me wrong.

    And in the letter itself:

    “Honourable Mr Parker, I hope this information may be useful to you should you wish to make any other comments regarding the Mexican economy”

    Only his comments weren’t about the Mexican economy they were about comparisons between neighbouring countries (Aust and NZ) and the a reference to the less well off position financially that Mexico is (still) in when compared to its neighbour (the US)

    I would like to see the actual transcript – but at the moment its looking like a lame as beat up.
    LAME.

  19. Campbell Larsen 19

    The Mexican letter

    Parker has expressed a very real concern. The move to a shared currency would cripple NZ.
    There is no comparison with Jabba Brownlee. Note the spin in the stuff link – “Is mexico a cigarette based economy?”

    I’m betting that Parker never said it was, but if anyone has the transcript then prove me wrong.

    And in the letter itself:

    “Honourable Mr Parker, I hope this information may be useful to you should you wish to make any other comments regarding the Mexican economy”

    Only his comments weren’t about the Mexican economy they were about comparisons between neighbouring countries (Aust and NZ) and the a reference to the less well off position financially that Mexico is (still) in when compared to its neighbour (the US)

    I would like to see the actual transcript – but at the moment its looking like a lame as beat up.
    LAME.

  20. Campbell Larsen 20

    The Mexican letter

    Parker has expressed a very real concern. Studies have shown that the move to a shared currency would cripple NZ eventually turning us into a low wage primary producing rural backwater of a larger Australia. It seems even with out loosing our currency we are already heading that way….
    There is no comparison with Jabba Brownlee. Note the spin in the stuff link – “Is mexico a cigarette based economy?”

    I’m betting that Parker never said it was, but if anyone has the transcript then prove me wrong.
    Tobacco production was part of the topic being discussed but since no-one has actually said or implied that Mexico was a cigarette based economy what’s up with the article title?

    And in the letter itself:

    “Honourable Mr Parker, I hope this information may be useful to you should you wish to make any other comments regarding the Mexican economy”

    Only his comments weren’t about the Mexican economy they were about comparisons between neighbouring countries (Aust and NZ) and the a reference to the less well off position financially that Mexico is (still) in when compared to its neighbour (the US)

    I would like to see the actual transcript – but at the moment its looking like a lame as beat up.

  21. bad12 21

    The fight within capitalism, Productive Capital V Speculative Capital is still going on in the form of dairy farmers being set upon by the Slippery lead National Government who have Legislation befor the House that simply attempts to strong-arm the Dairy Farmers who own 100% of their own dairy production company, Fonterra, into selling 8% of the company to ”investors”,

    Geez that has to be the ultimate in penis envy Legislation, Slippery’s mob having put nothing into the dairy industry that they havn’t been well paid for in terms of interest payments on loan’s wants ‘in’ and like any group of speculative ‘Banksters’ have now made the dairy farming owners an offer that they cannot refuse…

    • vto 21.1

      The banksters will not win this one. Most farmers are inter-generational and they have seen this many times before. They are not and will not be swayed.

  22. Pascal's bookie 22

    Old Jock Anderson seems to have stirred up a right hornets nest.

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/opinion-how-anzac-truth-sometimes-hard-handle-ja-117378

    Read the comments.

    They’re tame compared to what the KB chaps are saying:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/04/general_debate_23_april_2012.html#comment-959356

    gut shoot him and leave him to bleed out, one tough guy says.

    Bloody journalists. What did we fight for anyway?

    bell ends.

  23. joe90 23

    The most powerful women you’ve never heard of?.

    Nah, we all know who number one on the list is.

  24. Draco T Bastard 24

    MMP review under way

    And National is in a strong position to get what it wants.

    That is because once the Electoral Commission decides which of the submissions it likes, the Government will get the chance to vote on them and National and its allies currently wield all the power.

    Wait, what?
    Oh, NACT are being dictatorial again and not listening to the people.

  25. Georgecom 25

    Can someone please clarify this issue for me.

    On the news this morning I heard John Banks saying he intends to take ACT back to 5% polling.

    I wasn’t sure whether that was 5% or 0.5%.

    Either appears to be a challenge, especially for Banks.

    Rob

  26. Tazirev 26

    Can’t resist posting this

    Once upon a time in a nice little forest, there lived an orphaned bunny and an orphaned snake.
    By a surprising coincidence, both were blind from birth. One day, the bunny was hopping through the forest, and the snake was slithering through the forest, when the bunny tripped over the snake and fell down.
    This, of course, knocked the snake about quite a bit.”
    Oh, my,” said the bunny, “I’m terribly sorry.
    I didn’t mean to hurt you.
    I’ve been blind since birth, so I can’t see where I’m going.
    In fact, since I’m also an orphan, I don’t even know what I am.”
    “It’s quite OK,” replied the snake.
    “Actually, my story is much the same as yours.
    I, too, have been blind since birth, and also never knew my mother.
    Tell you what, maybe I could slither all over you, and find out what you are, so at least you’ll have that going for you.”
    “Oh, that would be wonderful” replied the bunny.
    So the snake slithered all over the bunny, and said, “Well, you’re covered with soft fur, you have really long ears, your nose twitches, and you have a soft cottony tail.
    I’d say that you must be a bunny rabbit.”
    “Oh, thank you”
    Thank you,” cried the bunny, in obvious excitement.
    The bunny suggested to the snake, “Maybe I could feel you all over with my paw, and help you the same way that you’ve helped me.”
    So the bunny felt the snake all over, and remarked, “Well, you’re smooth and slippery, and you have a forked tongue, no backbone, and no balls.
    I’d say you must be the Prime Minister

  27. Jackal 27

    $1.7 trillion wasted on war

    Spending so much money on war is not only a waste because there are far more humanitarian and productive undertakings that deserve those funds, it’s a complete waste of human potential as well…

  28. rosy 28

    It looks like Dutch government is is about to resign after 18 months or so over failure to agree to an austerity budget to sort out its budget deficit by 2013. After this government being one of the most vociferous critics of Greece and Spain and absolutely against giving them any leeway the word schadenfreude comes to mind…

  29. captain hook 29

    what makes me laugh is the national government getting ready to privatise fonterra and then collectivise the dairy industry.
    soicalising the losses and privatising the profits again.

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