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Open mike 23/08/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 23rd, 2015 - 69 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

69 comments on “Open mike 23/08/2015”

  1. Gael 1

    Just received this on my facebook page… NZ ranks 3rd in the highest rates of child poverty in the western world… how Appalling… is this true???


    Maybe if Mr Sanders doesn’t win the US Primary, it would be nice if he might immigrate to NZ and lead the Labour Party, we need a gentleman like this, I watched his speech in Senate opposing TPP, he spoke for at least 45 mins only barely referrring to his notes… currently our guys have to have notes to ask 3 questions…. I miss Sir David Lange I really do.

    • Morrissey 1.1

      Let’s hope Bernie Sanders is a lot sharper than poor old David Lange was. Remember that it was Lange, an economic illiterate, who let Douglas, Prebble, De Cleene and their ideological masters like Roger Kerr run riot in 1984.

      I doubt that Bernie Sanders would go about wrecking the education system like Lange did either.

      • Chooky 1.1.1

        +100…Lange sure did wreck and de professionalise the education system!…”Tomorrow’s Schools’ …was cost cutting, ignorance and arrogance

        You would not put parents in charge of the legal system or the medical system…why put them in charge of schools and education?

        • Adele


          Lange was a good man. He was a man of and for the people. Why are you blaming him for how other people used and abused his goodness.

          • Morrissey

            Lange was a good man.

            He was. But that is not enough to run a country, sadly.

            He was a man of and for the people.

            He certainly was conflicted when he saw the effects of his government’s actions on working people. So he was a better person by far than the likes of Moore, Douglas, Prebble and De Cleene, who actually ran the country or, more accurately, ran down the country for six years.

            For a good man, he didn’t show much empathy for teachers as his ideologically driven “reforms”—clearly the product of the fevered brains of the Business Round Table rather than Lange himself—were imposed over serious protests from those in the education sector. In fact, he publicly expressed his contempt for them on at least one occasion.

            Why are you blaming him for how other people used and abused his goodness.

            He was the prime minister. He allowed himself to be manipulated and used by the Douglas-Moore-Prebble faction.

            • Adele

              Teenaa koe, Morrisey

              The Prime Minister is not the government. Not even Key has been credited with this much power by lefties such as yourself.

              Where was the rest of Labour? At a perpetual smoko?

              He was a good man let down by his party.

              • Morrissey

                Not even Key has been credited with this much power by lefties such as yourself.

                Key is on board with National’s agenda of flogging off our assets, attacking public institutions and destroying dissenting journalists. Unlike Lange vis a vis Douglas, Moore and Prebble, he is not unaware of, or uninterested in, what the likes of Bill English and Steven Joyce are doing.

                Where was the rest of Labour? At a perpetual smoko?

                Yes. They were organizing their boroughs to be nuclear-free, and left Douglas and his cronies to take care of the boring stuff. Like Lange, the rest of us—except for a few like Bruce Jesson and Jane Kelsey—had little or no idea what they were up to.

                He was a good man let down by his party.

                No, he was a good man who allowed a small gang of ideologically fanatical theorists to seize control of his party.

    • Foreigne waka 1.2

      Agree, agree, agree. It is sad that the left in NZ is as bad as pure politicking is the only game in town. No humanities here I am afraid.

  2. The Chairman 2

    The art deco buses that were a financial disaster for Napier City Council have proved a great success for their new owner

    The council bought the two converted American school buses for $837,000 in 2011 then spent a further $300,000 repairing numerous faults and getting them shipped from California.

    The council then incurred a further $323,000 in operating losses.

    When sold last year, bids of around just $25,000 for each bus were accepted


    • Kevin 2.1

      The biggest problem was the NCC was running the buses on an almost identical route run by the HBRC who control the commuter bus network. The deco buses were charging $15 a ride where the commuter buses were around $3.50. No-brainer really.

  3. Penny Bright 3

    This is a REALLY big deal, and, in my opinion, these gutsy and persistent members of the Mangawhai Residents and Ratepayers’ Association (MRRA) deserve the full support of every decent New Zealander who supports the ‘Rule of Law’ equally applying to Councils / territorial authorities.

    What has happened to members of the MRRA is an absolute disgrace to democracy and proves that New Zealand’s ‘perceived’ status as ‘the second least corrupt country in the world’ is a massive crock of the steaming proverbial.

    I for one, will be at the NZ Court of Appeal in support of these fellow New Zealand CITIZENS – not SLAVES.
    Democracy on the Line

    The Mangawhai Ratepayers’ and Residents’ Association in Northland has been challenging the Kaipara District Council ( run since 2013 by a government-appointed commission ) through a Judicial Review in the High Court over illegal borrowing and illegal rates

    The issues affect every ratepayer in New Zealand because they centre around a council’s ability to set rates to fund illegal activities.

    The High Court effectively says they can, and we are asking the Court of Appeal to reconsider that question.

    But Democracy is also on trial here, because Parliament trampled on the community’s civil rights.

    The German-American Philosopher Hannah Arendt famously said “Nobody has the right to obey bad orders”

    In our context that means “Nobody should uncomplainingly pay illegal taxes”

    The people of Mangawhai are law-abiding decent and mostly elderly.

    We will pay our rates the instant they are lawful.

    Before that can happen there has to be a full independent investigation to ascertain who caused the loss of over $57,000,000.

    Without that, we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

    If we fold, we consign every ratepayer in the country to tyranny at the hands of their councils.

    If you can, please come and hear the arguments. 10:00am Tuesday 25/08/2015,

    in Wellington at the Court of Appeal Molesworth St. Courtroom 2.

    – or in Auckland at Level 11 280 Queen St (opposite Smith & Caughey) where we have a dedicated video link

    – and again on Wednesday the 26th of August 2015.

    Approved by Mangawhai Ratepayers and Residents Association.
    Mob: 02108180162 – e-mail: mangawhairatepayers@gmail.com

    For more background on our case , go to http://www.kaiparaconcerns.co.nz/


    Penny Bright

    • Chooky 3.1

      +100 Go Penny!

    • Blue Horsehoe 3.2

      These folks need all the support they can get

      The implications of this are wide reaching, so it is expected the establishment will use every level of the corrupted frameworks at its disposal

      All at tax payers expense of course

      To the good people of the MRRA and their supporters – Give it heaps

  4. Gangnam Style 4

    Guy Williams – Key “Protesters don’t know what they’re talking about because they don’t know what’s in the TPPA.” Protesters “THAT’S WHAT WE’RE PROTESTING”


  5. Morrissey 5

    John Pilger advises a shoddy Kim Hill: “Read. Just read.”
    Face to Face, Television One, Thursday 20 March 2003

    Later this morning Wallace Chapman is going to interview John Pilger. Let’s hope Chapman’s done a bit more prep. than one of his colleagues did a decade ago, otherwise we could be subjected to the unedifying sounds of someone being keelhauled—metaphorically of course.

    Intellectually and morally superior journalists like Glenn Greenwald always humiliate lazy and poorly informed chatterers like Bill Maher, Stephen Sackur and Kirsty Wark. This is why the likes of Greenwald are kept off the screens as much as possible.

    In 2003, another of the world’s top journalists, John Pilger, in Sydney, was interviewed by a poorly prepared Kim Hill (in Wellington). Now we all know that Kim Hill is a smart, well read woman. But she’s sometimes a little lazy, and doesn’t always do her due diligence. That’s fine in those cases when she’s far smarter than the person she’s interviewing, as she usually is.

    Unfortunately, however, shoddy thinking is not going to work when you try to confront someone like John Pilger….

    Face to Face, Television One, Thursday 20 March 2003

    Pilger was critical from the beginning, correcting Hill’s lead-in statement and saying he had to “deconstruct” her questions….

    KIM HILL: All this time, then, the United Nations and weapons inspectors have been some kind of puppets of the US.
    JOHN PILGER: Are you saying that?
    KIM HILL: I am asking you whether that is what you are implying?
    JOHN PILGER: That’s a leading question, I wouldn’t …

    KIM HILL: How would you describe the activities of the United Nations up until this point?
    JOHN PILGER: Which area of the United Nations? It’s a very big organisation.

    In the end, the interview dissolved into the journalists talking and shouting over the top of each other.

    JOHN PILGER: You waste my time because you have not prepared for this interview, as any journalist does, and I’ve done many interviews. The one thing is to prepare for them and this interview, frankly, is a disgrace.
    KIM HILL: What preparation would you have cared for, Mr Pilger?
    JOHN PILGER: To read. Read. It takes time.
    KIM HILL: It’s a pity you wasted a lot of your time tonight, Mr Pilger. I was looking forward to …
    JOHN PILGER: No, I haven’t. I’m quite pleased with my answers. I hope you broadcast them as I’ve given them.
    KIM HILL: We broadcast you exactly as you are. It’s been interesting to speak with you.

    • Morrissey 5.1

      And sure enough, Chapman has put his foot in it. At 9:48 a.m. he said something really careless and an irritated Pilger pulled him up for it.

      But Chapman had the grace to admit he’s not really up to speed on the situation, and he let Pilger clarify for him. A stark contrast to what happened twelve and a half years ago, when poor old Kim Hill foolishly tried to match wits with him.


      Incredibly, Chapman continues to put his foot in it. He’s just stated that Jeremy Corbyn is far to the left of the mainstream Labour Party. Pilger politely, but devastatingly, corrected him.

      Why do radio interviewers like Chapman not do their homework?

      • Vicky32 5.1.1

        Oh dear. I missed this because I was out, but from the sounds, it was a good thing to miss. I have become very disillusioned with the aptly-initialed W.C.

        • Morrissey

          Actually Vicky, or friend Wallace did a pretty good job—far better than Kim Hill’s foolish performance twelve and a half years ago. When a clearly irritated Pilger pounced on him for lazily recycling the lies against Assange, he accepted it in good grace.

        • weston

          what an incredibly cheap shot vicky perhaps yr initials should be sb….i thought the whole show was excellent and didnt wallace have to ask the questions that are on so many misinformed minds anyway ?

    • Chooky 5.2

      Great interview with John Pilger – Julian Assange this morning, on Wallace Chapman’s ‘Sunday Morning’ Radio New Zealand!


      “The internationally renowned investigative journalist and filmmaker discusses WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and his bid for his own freedom – and for freedom of information. John Pilger also gives us his take on Jeremy Corbyn’s bid for leadership of the UK Labour Party”.

      Also worth listening to is ‘Media Watch’ on bias in NZ journalism…eg. Mike Hoskings

      ( sound links yet to come up)

      (@ Morrissey…I thought it a pretty fair and good interview …interviewers can not be experts or perfect on ALL subjects…nor can they be perfect interviewers….As long as they tackle the BIG ISSUES with courage …and engage and stand corrected …that is all that matters!….and Pilger is notoriously tetchy)

      • Morrissey 5.2.1

        A couple of embarrassing slips by a well-intentioned but poorly prepared Chapman. Still, it’s better than nothing—which is the amount of time John Pilger will receive on our media for the rest of this year.

        By comparison, this fellow is on virtually non-stop….

      • Bearded Git 5.2.2

        @chooky +100 I thought Wallace did a good job.

      • Morrissey 5.2.3

        (@ Morrissey…I thought it a pretty fair and good interview …interviewers can not be experts or perfect on ALL subjects…nor can they be perfect interviewers….As long as they tackle the BIG ISSUES with courage …and engage and stand corrected …that is all that matters!

        Fair comment, Chooky. I agree that it was a pretty fair interview. However, I was annoyed—as Pilger clearly was—to hear Chapman recycling the brutal, discredited smears against Assange.

        ….and Pilger is notoriously tetchy)

        No, he is not tetchy. He simply does not suffer fools—as anyone who watched the Kim Hill interview will acknowledge. And Wallace Chapman, nice guy that he is, was a fool to come not fully briefed into an interview with a rigorous thinker like Pilger.

  6. Chooky 6

    Mike “Mish” Shedlock, of ‘global economic analysis’ on China’s economic woes


    and on America’s economic woes…as interviewed on the Keiser Report on



  7. Morrissey 7

    This jackass will endorse ANYTHING…

    • maui 7.1

      And who in their right mind would use that jackass to endorse their product. Accumulating as much wealth as possible seems to be his endgame.

  8. Blue Horsehoe 9

    CDC – No Link Between Vaccine and Infant Deaths


    From 2 to 4 months old, babies begin their primary course of vaccinations. This is also the peak age for sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). The timing of these two events has led some people to believe they might be related. However, studies have concluded that vaccinations are not a risk factor for SIDS


    Is it safe?

    The Hib vaccine is very safe, and it is effective at preventing Hib disease. Vaccines, like any medicine, can have side effects. Most children who get the Hib shot have no side effects.

    What are the side effects?

    The most common side effects are usually mild and last 2 or 3 days. They include the following:

    Redness, swelling, and warmth where the child got the shot




    VAERS received 29,747 reports after Hib vaccines; 5179 (17%) were serious, including 896 reports of deaths. Median age was 6 months (range 0-1022 months). Sudden infant death syndrome was the stated cause of death in 384 (51%) of 749 death reports with autopsy/death certificate records. The most common nondeath serious AE categories were neurologic (80; 37%), other noninfectious (46; 22%) (comprising mainly constitutional signs and symptoms); and gastrointestinal (39; 18%) conditions. No new safety concerns were identified after clinical review of reports of AEs that exceeded the data mining statistical threshold.


    Review of VAERS reports did not identify any new or unexpected safety concerns for Hib vaccines

    “Underreporting” is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, underreporting refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for only a small fraction of actual adverse events. The degree of underreporting varies widely

    * USA – Most vaccinated babies on earth
    * USA – Highest rates of infant mortality in developed world

    Must be, coincidence

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      Must be, right…

      • Blue Horsehoe 9.1.1


        CV ,can you take a read through of the above link, and see what stand out from your perspective


        • Colonial Viper


          • northshoredoc


            • McFlock

              I dunno. It’s strangely fascinating watching paranoiacs try their hand at sciencing.

              Next they’ll discover that countries that vaccinate against polio have high polio rates, dun dun DUUUHHNN

              • Blue Horseshoe

                No doubt you’re a total fuckwit

                Use of ad homs deflection and ignoring the information in the links leaves little room for error with that call

                Interpreting lies spin and outright bullshit is nothing related to science , dickhead

                By all means keep flapping your ignorance

                • McFlock

                  Oh, I found your information most interesting, especially the way you highlighted insufficient information in order to justify your sarcastic last sentence.

                  But really, the best bit was you asking CV to see what stands out from his “perspective”. That’s like asking a Cantabrian to ref a rugby match.

                  • Blue Horseshoe

                    Wait on.

                    CDC says – HiB vaccine is safe

                    VAERS – Stats indicate CDC statement is a lie

                    National Library of Medicine – Study rationalized VAERS stats around vaccine related injury and deaths confirming the CDC lie

                    McFlock – Flings his own shit and can’t or won’t see that the CDC statement about safety of the HiB vaccine is a lie

                    Slow hand clap

                    • northshoredoc

                      The CDC statement that Hib vaccine is ‘very safe’ is quite correct as is their conclusion that no new or unexpected safety concerns have been identified.

                      That you misunderstand the data and try to raise an argument that Hib vaccination is causative in SIDS is due to your inability to understand the information.

                      One can only be thankful that you aren’t also raising false allegations and conspiracy theories about fluoridation and the twin towers.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      After the Berlin Wall fell, West Germany ordered a halt to the water fluoridation that was occurring in Wast Germany.

                    • McFlock

                      VAERS – Stats indicate CDC statement is a lie


                      National Library of Medicine – Study rationalized VAERS stats around vaccine related injury and deaths confirming the CDC lie


                      From the VAERS paper:

                      VAERS generally cannot assess whether a vaccine caused an AE. VAERS does not collect data on the number of individuals vaccinated; therefore, with no denominator data, it is
                      not possible to calculate incidence rates of AEs.

                      So your comment “VAERS stats around vaccine related injury and deaths ” is pretty misleading – if someone had been hit by an asteroid after vaccination, you’d call that a “vaccine related injury”? Nope.

                      You’re a fucking moron, but good on you for not letting that get in the way of your belief in your own brilliance.

              • joe90

                More so when they do their research.

          • Blue Horsehoe

            Thanks, CV

        • Colonial Viper

          The infant mortality rate (IMR) is one of the most important indicators of the socio-economic well-being and public health conditions of a country. The US childhood immunization schedule specifies 26 vaccine doses for infants aged less than 1 year—the most in the world—yet 33 nations have lower IMRs. Using linear regression, the immunization schedules of these 34 nations were examined and a correlation coefficient of r= 0.70 (p<0.0001) was found between IMRs and the number of vaccine doses routinely given to infants. Nations were also grouped into five different vaccine dose ranges: 12–14, 15–17, 18–20, 21–23, and 24–26. The mean IMRs of all nations within each group were then calculated. Linear regression analysis of unweighted mean IMRs showed a high statistically significant correlation between increasing number of vaccine doses and increasing infant mortality rates, with r=0.992 (p=0.0009). Using the Tukey-Kramer test, statistically significant differences in mean IMRs were found between nations giving 12–14 vaccine doses and those giving 21–23, and 24–26

          A closer inspection of correlations between vaccine doses, biochemical or synergistic toxicity, and IMRs is essential.

          Quite a stunning summary.

          As I read it, the researchers suggest a very strong mathematical relationship between the countries utilising the highest numbers of vaccination doses on infants and those same countries having higher rates of infant mortality.

          One imagines that countries which can afford to mandate the most vaccination doses to their populations are the richest countries in the world where infant mortality should be lower, not higher.

          Given recent advances in understanding how individually safe chemicals can combine in effect to be toxic (i.e. synergistically toxic) in the human body, I think it can be said that the recommendation of the researchers to pursue “closer inspection” is well taken.

          • northshoredoc

            CV the information you’ve posted has been well and truly debunked.


            “The current study joins a long list of poorly planned, poorly executed, poorly analyzed studies that purport to show that vaccines cause autism, neurological diease, or even death. It is not the first, nor will it be the last. The question is: How do we respond to such studies? First off, we as skeptics have to be very careful not to become so jaded that knee-jerk hostility predominates. As unlikely as it is, there is always the possibility that there might be something worth taking seriously there. Next off, we have to be prepared to analyze these studies and explain to parents, when appropriate (which is the vast majority of the time) exactly why it is that they are bad science or why their conclusions are not supported by the data presented. Finally, we have to be prepared to provide these analyses fast. The Internet is speed. Already, if you Google the terms “infant mortality” and “vaccine,” anti-vaccine blogs gloating over Miller and Goldman’s study and the study itself appear on the very first page of search results.”

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              A lie runs the world around while truth is still strapping on its boots. An aphorism that surely predates the interwebz.

              I think people who tell the lies that kill can be prosecuted. I hope they will be.

            • Blue Horsehoe

              How much of a dishonest wanker must you be to continually use that website

              Not only that, but you actively fight to ‘debunk’ every and any study that might remotely threaten the establishments doctrine which you have been pushing on behalf, for christ knows how long

              What sort of arsehole claims to be a medical professional carrying the way you do on this blog site. I suspect there is no amount of ‘evidence’ which would sway you from the blind belief

              Fuck the deaths and injury, seems to be your position, and I imagine that Paul Offit is an idol of yours

              Here is the news for you dickhead. The world as you believe it to be is currently coming under the most intense scrutiny courtesy of your ‘colleagues’ in the USA who are fronting the ‘mandatory agenda’

              I concur with OAB, and hope that those whose lies maim and kill are prosecuted, one way or another

          • Blue Horsehoe

            Thanks for taking the time to read the link, CV

            No amount of diversion will prevent the crumbling wall created by the lies and bullishit, about ‘benefits’ of vaccination

            It is phenomenal to me, that the same types who put such stock in ‘scientific method’, are seemingly oblivious to the hypocrisy they peddle via their willingness to accept with little more than a shrug, the continual exposure of corruption and fraud seeping from the cesspool CDC/FDA and the networks which they ‘oversee’

            The drive towards compulsion, is going to expose the death and injury causing fraudulent entities, by putting the industry structures under the microscope like nothing previously witnessed in the history of modern medicine. This is where the ‘scientific method’ is going to be shown has having been utterly bastardized for profit

            Staggering is the juvenile attitude by some, who (must) deliberately refuse to see the gaping holes, which even the most fundamental techniques in logical thinking can drive a truck through

            I do agree with the comment from One Anonymous Bloke. People that tell lies which kill, maim and injure, should be prosecuted…

            Starting with war criminals, and swiftly followed by medical professionals who have accepted lies as knowledge, and uncritically pushed the amoral, and unethical establishments medical agenda, onto unwitting yet trusting populace

            • McFlock

              The drive towards compulsion, is going to expose the death and injury causing fraudulent entities, by putting the industry structures under the microscope like nothing previously witnessed in the history of modern medicine. This is where the ‘scientific method’ is going to be shown has having been utterly bastardized for profit

              So you’re in favour of compulsion then, as it’s the quickest way to expose teh liez…

              I do agree with the comment from One Anonymous Bloke. People that tell lies which kill, maim and injure, should be prosecuted…

              Starting with war criminals, and swiftly followed by medical professionals who have accepted lies as knowledge, and uncritically pushed the amoral, and unethical establishments medical agenda, onto unwitting yet trusting populace


              You’ve just completely slipped off Sanity Hill, haven’t you…

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              Nope, I was talking about Mr. Andrew Wakefield et al.

  9. adam 11

    This sucks.

    This is deliberately miss leading the public – well done Russell Norman on pulling the git up on his remarks.


    • Pat 11.1

      par for the course from this bunch of corrupt p***ks

      • Skinny 11.1.1

        Oh there is no confusion from Mr Leitch and his possie of Demo Creds. Caught out again ‘same confused excuse’. Bit of cannon fodder for Peters who will be looking to add Whangarei to his Northern Kingdom. His loyal Greypower command post crew in Wellsford will be keeping their eyes peeled for the fleet of Ministers limo’s racing North in a hurry.

        Subject: Mr Reti Challenged To Come Clean On TPPA

        Democrats for Social Credit Deputy Leader and Whangarei candidate Chris Leitch, has called on MP Shane Reti to “come clean or resign” over his attempt to mislead constituents on the ability of the public to have input to the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement.

        Mr Leitch said he had a copy of the material Mr Reti had sent out and the claims in it were “blatantly untrue”.

        “Putting it down to “bad grammar” is like a naughty child getting his hand caught in the cookie jar, and claiming “I was just counting them”, said Mr Leitch.

        “As deputy chair of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, Mr Reti should know exactly what the government is proposing to allow in the way of public input and I challenge him to make a clear, definitive, detailed, public statement”.

        The best way for him to do this would be at a public meeting where he could put his case for Whangarei voters to support the government’s stance on the TPPA, and explain the process.

        “If his statement was honestly intended, this would give him an excellent opportunity to demonstrate his sincerity to the general public”, Mr Leitch said.

        “In response, I would be keen to put the opposing point of view so the public could hear both sides of the debate, and get their questions answered”, he said.

        If he would just name the day and time, I will book a hall and arrange advertising for a public meeting.

        Failure on Mr Reti’s part to “fess up” and “front up” over his press statement would likely be seen by constituents as admission that he did indeed try to mislead them.

  10. Plug for my long rebuttal of Karl du Fresne’s attack on Otago academics.


  11. Gael 13

    May I humbly note that Hib presents like the flu, however it is a bacterial infection that if not treated or immunised against in under 4yrs age (because child can’t tell diff between viral flu and bacterial Hib) it will kill them. As an “attached” parent, maybe an answer to SIDs being high in the US as opposed to say 3rd world country may lie in the lack of contact the baby has with its mother, being that the ‘norm’ in western world is to put them in their cot and let them cry themselves to sleep aka “self soothe”…in the “3rd world” babies are attached to mum day and night… no SIDs… coincidence too maybe. Of course there are many what ifs when a baby dies, but loneliness doesnt just kill babies. But being unvaccinated will definitely up the odds of your baby failing to reach 5.. and if you havent heard a small child with whooping cough then you are very lucky. Its not a sound you ever forget. We immunised our child and strongly recommend it. Just my opinion. And 100+ for comments re Lange, I forgot those bits.

    • northshoredoc 13.1

      Hi Gael

      From memory Haemophilius influenza used to cause death in around 3% or less of those who presented with an infection.

      Before we used to vaccinate against it, it was the most common cause of meningitis in children, i can remember seeing 1-2 a week when I was training many years ago.

      SIDs is considerably lower in the US than in any 3rd world country. The data that has been shown above is defective as countries measure things such as SIDs differently.

      Importantly there are many studies and much information to show that immunising as per the schedule along with Hib immunisation lowers the risk of SIDs, indeed one of the studies that shows this to be the case was completed in NZ many years ago.

    • Blue Horsehoe 13.2

      But being unvaccinated will definitely up the odds of your baby failing to reach5 .. and if you havent heard a small child with whooping cough then you are very lucky. Its not a sound you ever forget. We immunised our child and strongly recommend it

      As a parent who has chosen to vaccinate, you HAVE TO believe that statement, because you have painted yourself into a corner through the choices you have made

      Because of the choice you made, you have no control over the long term (unknown) outcomes which could seriously impact the health of your offspring. You have no choice but to emphatically believe the decision you took, was the best one

      It is the ultimate conundrum for parents, which can leave them terribly exposed and vulnerable. Fear that vaccinating / not vaccinating will lead to their child experiencing pain, injury or death

      I note that your ‘strong recommendation’, reads like an attempt to to validate and endorse the decision which you made. Making a recommendation on such a sensitive topic, is terribly ignorant, and a herd mentality tactic

      Consequences are too serious on either side of the decision tree, to be making ‘strong recommendations’

      • northshoredoc 13.2.1

        “Consequences are too serious on either side of the decision tree, to be making ‘strong recommendations’”

        No they aren’t, all sound medical and public health authorities strongly recommend vaccination as per the schedule for all those people as long as they don’t have contraindications to vaccination.

  12. greywarshark 14

    Was it Labour who enthusiastically closed down the mental institutions? Now many people who would have had care there are in prison. Or wandering the streets taking up police time, causing problems to the people they obssess about.

    Caring for but limiting the freedom of people not in control of themselves must save money in the long run. And that was one of the reasons for deinstitutilisation, the other was to give people who would benefit from being on their own in the community that chance. But their was no place for those who needed to return to the closer environment.

    • Pat 14.1

      no must have been the Nats as it hit its straps in the early mid nineties…given some of the activities uncovered in the institutions over the years there is a case to be made for it, certainly in the majority of instances, but unfortunately the policy has never been able to implemented as intended due to chronic underfunding….what else is new. Dont worry Im sure Serco have a mental health division…they’ll do it better and cheaper…and still provide a return to their shareholders…..Tui moment.

  13. maui 15

    Could angry andy get some tips from angry jeremy corbyn? At 8:00 minutes in for about 3 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZAn7ZEvwek

    Straight talking and not taking any shit has it’s merits.

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