Open mike 23/11/2012

106 comments on “Open mike 23/11/2012 ”

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1. Jenny 1

   23 November 2012 at 6:10 am

   Reports are coming in saying, “the siege of Gaza, which Israel has fought so bitterly and for so long to maintain has ended.”

   “The [Israeli-Hamas ceasefire] agreement signed on Wednesday states that all crossings into Gaza – presumably not just the Rafah border with Egypt but the ones on the Israeli side as well – will be open to the movement of people and goods.

   The Gaurdian 21 November 2012
   • Jenny 1.1

     23 November 2012 at 6:19 am

     Guardian editorial says ‘siege of Gaza has just ended’

     http://kiaoragaza.wordpress.com/2012/11/22/gaza-shows-limits-of-force/
   • millsy 1.2

     23 November 2012 at 9:55 am

     My solution:

     Isreal and Palestine merge to form one singluar bicultural/multicultural state, where Arabs, Jews, and everyone else are treated as equal in a democratic secular state. Jerusalem to be internationalised as a free city for all peoples and faiths, under UN control. Will require both sides to make consessions, but people actually want to go out without worrying being blown to pieces by some fanatics.
     • Fortran 1.2.1

       23 November 2012 at 1:34 pm

       It is reported that the Palistinians are moving new arms through their tunnels from Egypt, although 143 were destroyed, they still have many more which are being used.
       In addition at the start of this skirmish they had 15,000 rockets of which only 15% were fired.
       Cannot see Kumbaya yet.
       • Te Reo Putake 1.2.1.1

         23 November 2012 at 1:44 pm

         It’s being reported? Er, no. It’s being alleged by an Israeli Government shill that the defenders of the Gaza ghetto had 15000 rockets. And these rockets are low tech; unguided and ineffective. On the other side, the invaders have the latest tech and overwhelming strength of numbers. Hardly a fair fight.

         And just for fun, can I point out that only a couple of the Gaza rockets have ever landed on Israeli soil. Most are aimed at Palestinian land, stolen by the oppressor.
         • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.1.1

           24 November 2012 at 10:01 am

           The Archdruid report says that Israel’s time is going to get harder as the USA declines further

           http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/in-twilight-of-empires.html
     • Chalupa Batman 1.2.2

       23 November 2012 at 2:53 pm

       Good luck policing that,,,
     • PlanetOrphan 1.2.3

       23 November 2012 at 3:06 pm

       Nice sentiment millsy,
       Israel appropriated land because Palistinians didn’t believe in Fencing ?
       Communal grazing versus “Fenced” farming ?

       Israel is the bigoted “Right Wing Authority” in the conflict M8!
       No respect for another culture is the underlying cause.
     • AAMC 1.2.4

       23 November 2012 at 4:10 pm

       Not disimilar from this interesting plan for the Palestinians..

       http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-24/why-palestinians-have-time-on-their-side.html
     • Populuxe1 1.2.5

       23 November 2012 at 4:37 pm

       Except you’d never get either side to agree to a secular state, and demographically Israelis would be quickly outnumbered – so no. I do like the idea of Jerusalem being a free city.
2. Jenny 2

   23 November 2012 at 6:12 am

   Wow. This is world shaking news. This is almost as momentous as the collapse of the Berlin Wall.

   Surely the Separation Wall will fall next. We are seeing a complete reshaping of the whole Palestinian Israeli question.

   Will these developments see a negotiated peace, where the Israelis have to organise an evacuation of the illegal settlements in the West Bank?

   With the borders open can the refugees in Gaza return to their former lands and houses at least in the current occupied territories especially if they are freed up by the evacuation of the settlers?

   This is unbelievable and a cause for great celebration and no doubt for the Palestians particularly.

   Will there be a formal announcement of the two state solution?

   Will Abbass bid to the UN for observer status, be upgraded to a request for full membership?
   • Pascal's bookie 2.1

     23 November 2012 at 8:18 am

     Good lord, steady on.

     You, (and the Guardian editorialist), are reading a hell of a lot into a few lines of text.

     the borders have been open to the movement of goods and people throughout the seige. It’s how stuff gets in and out, it’s tightly controlled, but not ‘closed’. Presumably during the last week they have been sealed.
   • Clashman 2.2

     23 November 2012 at 8:18 am

     Give it a week or two and it will be business as usual. The Israelis talk the talk but still haven’t learnt how to walk.
     • higherstandard 2.2.1

       23 November 2012 at 8:38 am

       “Give it a week or two and it will be business as usual.”

       That’s a pretty safe bet.
3. Logie97 3

   23 November 2012 at 7:56 am

   Some would claim, and perhaps with good reason, that the All Blacks are probably the best (only) export promotion bill board we have.
   Yet, watching a snippet of the Italian – New Zealand game, I could not help noticing the socks of both teams. The Italians were wearing the Canterbury clothing brand and the All Blacks, the Adidas motif …
   • Rob 3.1

     23 November 2012 at 8:39 am

     Yes, proves the point , Canterbury capability and cred came off the back of many successful AB seasons. Now they are one of the premier international suppliers of tech gear for a range of sporting codes.
   • Chris 3.2

     23 November 2012 at 1:19 pm

     Canterbury is majority owned by an English company now anyway
4. Northshoreguynz 4

   23 November 2012 at 9:31 am

   Wonder if our IRD is on to this.
   http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/11/22/uk-australia-google-tax-idUKBRE8AL04Y20121122

   Or is it too much for Finance, Revenue to cope with.
5. freedom 5

   23 November 2012 at 9:50 am

   I was listening to the Secretary for Education on National Radio this a.m. and the ongoing bleating of how complex the payroll system is. The Secretary patiently explained how the gargantuan task of paying our Teachers would cripple Hercules, immobilize Job and probably break DangerMouse , even if Penfold and all the Argonauts popped in to lend a hand.

   I began wondering how our Health workers manage to get paid then?
   Home help, OT’s, Physios, Nurses, Locums, GP’s, even the Surgeons seem to get paid without weekly drama and that Industry has exactly the same parameters of complex issues the Secretary ascribed to Education.
   • vto 5.1

     23 November 2012 at 9:53 am

     If the Secretary of Education finds getting the teachers paid all too much then how on earth can we have any confidence that the Secretary is even remotely capable of doing the far more complex and important job of actually educating our kids?

     For fucks sake what a bloody moron
   • Northshoreguynz 5.2

     23 November 2012 at 9:59 am

     Another worry is that some teachers are finding out that although their Kiwisaver and PAYE deductions have been made, they haven’t made it to the IRD.
   • higherstandard 5.3

     23 November 2012 at 9:59 am

     I have a close friend in the senior government IT echelons, while it seems obvious to anyone with half a brain that one could and should replicate well operating IT (and other) systems throughout government and the public service this is not the way the aparatchiks operate as theirs is a system based on troughing, incompetence and reinvention of the wheel – often in non circular form.
   • ianmac 5.4

     23 November 2012 at 9:59 am

     And of course those hugely complex teacher payrolls with over 90,000 employees managed in the past, so not really a sudden revelation. Why such a surprise?
     • Dv 5.4.1

       23 November 2012 at 12:00 pm

       And what more
       Levy reckons it will take ONE year to get it right!!!!
       AND
       Talent 0.5 have started to blame to schools for incorrect data entry.
   • weka 5.5

     23 November 2012 at 10:39 am

     Don’t worry freedom, the health sector will be next (and I seem to remember some hooha in the 90s when they changed to a new computing system in hospitals)
   • Beatie 5.6

     23 November 2012 at 10:40 am

     I worked as a relief teacher for 10 years and not once did I have a problem with Datacom (the previous payroll company). Also they answered the phone instantly.
     • Daveosaurus 5.6.1

       23 November 2012 at 8:20 pm

       Yes, but Cabinet Ministers didn’t have shares in Datacom, so they had to be axed.
       • Colonial Viper 5.6.1.1

         24 November 2012 at 10:02 am

         Datacom…a NZ company.
   • KJT 5.7

     23 November 2012 at 9:25 pm

     Datacom seemed to manage fine.

     Obvious that they had no cronies in National, though.
6. starlight 6

   23 November 2012 at 11:25 am

   Teachers etc got paid ok under the old system without any problems, the old saying, if it ain’t broke, dont fix it.
   My thoughts go out to those poor teachers etc that featured on Campbell Live, it’s a terrible
   situation.
   • ianmac 6.1

     23 November 2012 at 11:31 am

     But the Ministry is still saying that if one has not been paid, then the school should write a cheque out of school funds. More paper work then a payback from someone to someone else. Hell of a way to run a business.
7. lprent 7

   23 November 2012 at 11:31 am

   There appears to be a problem with accessing akismet this morning. Comments are lagging through the spam checks and I have this message showing.

   Akismet has detected a problem. Some comments have not yet been checked for spam by Akismet. They have been temporarily held for moderation. Please check your Akismet configuration and contact your web host if problems persist.

   They are getting through, but there can be a few minutes lag. The peak I have seen has been 8 comments queued and with a delay of a less than 2 minutes (displays comment time only to the minute).

   We get these on the odd occasion. They usually only persist for 10 minutes or so. But this one has been running for somewhat longer.
   • Planetorphan 7.1

     23 November 2012 at 11:45 am

     Local NZ connection to root name servers are down ….
     Nothing resolves , using hosts file for thestandard at the mo.
     Someone should tell Telecom / sprint net
     They need to switch their “Local” root server to “Cached-Only” mode 🙂
     • PlanetOrphan 7.1.1

       23 November 2012 at 12:31 pm

       Been seeing a lot of high numbered port, DOS attacks last 3 – 4 months.
       Mainly around the address translation ports, Turkey and southern north american origins.
       Attacking “apple” ports as well.
       • Rogue Trooper 7.1.1.1

         23 November 2012 at 12:40 pm

         clever
     • lprent 7.1.2

       23 November 2012 at 12:38 pm

       I’d have expected it wouldn’t make a difference. The name -> IP would normally be cached in the server’s client DNS rather than having to resolve all of the time. And we are talking about comments being entered which is something that this site several times per minute during the peaks, and several minutes between for the rest of the NZ day.

       Depends on what they set the TTL’s to I guess. If it was extremely short, then we might get DNS resolution lags. If there was a man in the middle attack on the DNS, then they’d set the TTL way up anyway.

       More likely there is just maintenance or a DDOS. But this isn’t an area that I focus on that much. More jbc’s than mine.
       • PlanetOrphan 7.1.2.1

         23 November 2012 at 12:44 pm

         DNS is a fundamental, slow it down and every spam engine in the world slows down.
         And the TTL is meaningless unless u r in “cached-only” mode, it’ll still check the root server, it may time out, but slow is the end result.

         It’s a last resort response to DNS DOS, which is what I think is happening , maintenance is not “down time” with revolving dns names etc.
         • lprent 7.1.2.1.1

           23 November 2012 at 4:08 pm

           Been seeing a bit of it at work. Seems to have cleared up now.
8. Rogue Trooper 8

   23 November 2012 at 12:28 pm

   RAM 🙂
9. Rogue Trooper 9

   23 November 2012 at 12:35 pm

   oops, forgot
   Spin. Support your local Red, or black.
   “She’s mighty mighty, lettin it all hang out”
   Masters of War meet Masters of Reality

   some rollin radical people (such is plurality)
   http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=christian+anarchism&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=8rWuUOPtK6nYigeT6oDYAw&sqi=2&ved=0CE0QsAQ&biw=1003&bih=499

   -Dredd
10. Professor Longhair 10

    23 November 2012 at 1:05 pm

    As Gaza is Savaged Again, Understanding the BBC’s Role Requires More Than Sentiment
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33126.htm
    by JOHN PILGER November 22, 2012

    In Peter Watkins’ remarkable BBC film, The War Game,which foresaw the aftermath of an attack on London with a one-megaton nuclear bomb, the narrator says: “On almost the entire subject of thermo-clear weapons, there is now practically total silence in the press, official publications and on TV. Is there hope to be found in this silence?”

    The truth of this statement was equal to its irony. On 24 November, 1965, the BBC banned The War Game as “too horrifying for the medium of broadcasting”. This was false. The real reason was spelt out by the chairman of the BBC Board of Governors, Lord Normanbrook, in a secret letter to the Secretary to the Cabinet, Sir Burke Trend.

    “[The War Game] is not designed as propaganda,” he wrote, “it is intended as a purely factual statement and is based on careful research into official material… But the showing of the film on television might have a significant effect on public attitudes towards the policy of the nuclear deterrent.” Following a screening attended by senior Whitehall officials, the film was banned because it told an intolerable truth. Sixteen years later, the then BBC director-general, Sir Ian Trethowan, renewed the ban, saying that he feared for the film’s effect on people of “limited mental intelligence”. Watkins’ brilliant work was eventually shown in 1985 to a late-night minority audience. It was introduced by Ludovic Kennedy who repeated the official lie.

    What happened to The War Game is the function of the state broadcaster as a cornerstone of Britain’s ruling elite. With its outstanding production values, often fine popular drama, natural history and sporting coverage, the BBC enjoys wide appeal and, according to its managers and beneficiaries, “trust”. This “trust” may well apply to Springwatch and Sir David Attenborough, but there is no demonstrable basis for it in much of the news and so-called current affairs that claim to make sense of the world, especially the machinations of rampant power. There are honourable individual exceptions, but watch how these are tamed the longer they remain in the institution: a “defenestration”, as one senior BBC journalist describes it.

    This is notably true in the Middle East where the Israeli state has successfully intimidated the BBC into presenting the theft of Palestinian land and the caging, torturing and killing of its people as an intractable “conflict” between equals. Standing in the rubble from an Israeli attack, one BBC journalist went further and referred to “Gaza’s strong culture of martyrdom”. So great is this distortion that young viewers of BBC News have told Glasgow University researchers they are left with the impression that Palestinians are the illegal colonisers of their own country. ….

    Read more…
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33126.htm
11. Fisiani 11

    23 November 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Posted from Kiwiblog

    The Government will build 10,000 new houses a year. Now let’s break that down.

    10,000 houses a year is 192 houses a week. Now if you take the working week of 40 hours, that is 4.8 houses per hour. That is a new house every 13 minutes of the working week.

    Hands up those who think the Government can build a new house every 13 minutes? If your hand is up, please keep it up and please join the queue for free trips to the North Pole to see Santa Claus.

    So can anyone tell me who put forward this obviously unworkable shonky promise and were they on Team Cunliffe trying to discredit Shearer
    • vto 11.1

      23 November 2012 at 2:40 pm

      yep, and I see farrar gets panned by many kiwiblog punters for the clear silliness and empty-headedness of his post ha ha ha ha ha

      Flailing around………. walking in circles ………. trying ever so hard to polish the Nats turds ……..
    • PlanetOrphan 11.2

      23 November 2012 at 2:41 pm

      40 hours times 100 workers = 4000 hours per week.
      • Fisiani 11.2.1

        23 November 2012 at 3:28 pm

        Still not nearly enough. If by some miracle you can build a house in 500 hours that equates to just 8 houses a week. Still not near one every 13 minutes.

        Someone is having a laugh that they allowed Shearer to make a claim that will be forever ridiculed. That was sabotage.
        • PlanetOrphan 11.2.1.1

          23 November 2012 at 3:34 pm

          There are 170,000 unemployed …. even if you get 50,000 employed thats ….

          5 workers per house per week, a modular house can be erected in 5 days.
          How many houses in one week Fisiani ?

          Of course we might want to take our time and get it right though.
          • vto 11.2.1.1.1

            23 November 2012 at 3:41 pm

            No perhaps fisiani and farrar and all the other pesimists and naysayers are right. The whole thing should be called off. It is just too hard. Everybody go home, the policy has been cancelled as it is impossible to provide less expensive housing in New Zealand……… ffs
            • PlanetOrphan 11.2.1.1.1.1

              23 November 2012 at 3:47 pm

              They’ve even “Invented Maths” that prove it!
              Quantify the variable, don’t invent it out of thin air M8!
    • Draco T Bastard 11.3

      23 November 2012 at 4:29 pm

      The RWNJ logic (if we want to call it that) goes like this:

      That’s a house every 13 minutes and nobody can build a house in 13 minutes thus the Labour party must be lying.

      Yes, the RWNJs like Fisiani really are that stupid. They’re actually incapable of the basic maths to work out what it would take to build 10000 houses as they’ve just proven.
      • fisiani 11.3.1

        23 November 2012 at 7:03 pm

        Care to actually point out the maths of how an EXTRA 10,000 homes can be built in the 40 hours of a 48 week effective working year, bad weather not included. (PS Modular house erection erection does not equate to having a house fit for habitation.)

        Virtual Chocolate fish to the first delusionist to prove how it is possible.
        I will not accept answers such as ” The Hogwarts school of carpentry” or “300,000 migrant Oompaloompas” or ” there are 170,000 ‘builders’ unemployed”

        The only explanation of this mathematical brain fade is that someone has tried and succeeded in making Shearer look utterly incompetent. Perhaps it was just a decimal point in the wrong place.
        1000 houses would only take 130 minutes each to construct.
        100 would take 1300 minutes or 21.6 hours

        Don’t even get me started on the shonky cost calculations………..
        • PlanetOrphan 11.3.1.1

          23 November 2012 at 7:29 pm

          There’s a lot more than 10,000 construction workers in New Zealand Fisiani.
        • PlanetOrphan 11.3.1.2

          23 November 2012 at 7:41 pm

          157,000 at the moment.

          http://www.careers.govt.nz/default.aspx?id0=10104&id1=6684D868-9D45-4202-8265-027A28B38DEE
          • Draco T Bastard 11.3.1.2.1

            23 November 2012 at 7:49 pm

            Thanks, was looking but couldn’t find it.
            • Rogue Trooper 11.3.1.2.1.1

              23 November 2012 at 7:52 pm

              boldly going where no man has gone before
            • PlanetOrphan 11.3.1.2.1.2

              23 November 2012 at 7:59 pm

              Sweet, a breakdown of 2009 here …
              http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/lmr/construction-sector/summary.asp
        • Draco T Bastard 11.3.1.3

          23 November 2012 at 7:47 pm

          It takes two builders 8 weeks to build a 90m2 house (and that’s being generous). That’s two guys building 6 houses per year and we want 10,000 of them in one year. That means we need 1667 teams or 3334 builders.

          Now, we actually already have several thousand builders already and many are presently under-employed or unemployed (there’s a reason why builders rates have gone from $34/hour plus to $25/hour) so we will have some spare capacity and possibly even enough without training up more builders and there is that 170k people unemployed some of which would be more than happy to become builders. Remember, the plan is 100k over ten years but it doesn’t have to start out at 10,000 in the first year (it would be nice but probably impractical).

          As for the “shonky cost” well, personally, I think their being a little over generous myself especially if they go for medium or high density housing which they should do.

          Really, the only things that are shonky are the RWNJs and their attempts at maths.
          • Fisiani 11.3.1.3.1

            23 November 2012 at 8:27 pm

            Two magical superworkers who can do the foundations, framing, plastering plumbing electrics, roofing and painting decorating in eight weeks. Oompa Loompa Land
            I was hoping one of you would make a serious attempt .
            Come on guys. You cannot defend the indefensible.
            • PlanetOrphan 11.3.1.3.1.1

              23 November 2012 at 8:30 pm

              Explain 3,500 building consents per month in 2004 Fisiani….

              http://www.dbh.govt.nz/UserFiles/File/Sector%20info/key-indicator-reports/kir-construction.pdf
              (Page 2)

              The aim of KiwiBuilder is obviously to increase these numbers.

              And why oh why are the numbers of workers declining under Nationals Governance Fisiani?
              • Fisiani …

                23 November 2012 at 8:51 pm

                Explain 10,000 EXTRA completed homes and stop wasting time with the number of CONSENTS.
                • Fisiani …

                  23 November 2012 at 8:53 pm

                  Oh and your other canard.
                  There are more people employed in New Zealand than at any time in history.
                  • Draco T Bastard …

                    23 November 2012 at 9:15 pm

                    More people = more employed. There also happens to be the most people unemployed.

                    There’s a reason why such figures are stated a percentage – it’s because nominal counts are inaccurate.
                • PlanetOrphan …

                  23 November 2012 at 8:56 pm

                  Look Fisiani it’s obvious you’ve got a bone too grind with bloggs.

                  But 10,000 completed homes is a goal, give it a few years.
                  We are currently building 10,000+- homes a year, if it takes two years then so be it consents means “started”.

                  Labour want to increase this number by a few hundred to a thousand per month

                  I.E. GROWTH IN THE BUILDING INDUSTRY.

                  Instantaneous gratification only exists in the drug addicts mind.
            • KJT 11.3.1.3.1.2

              23 November 2012 at 9:09 pm

              Not to big a stretch considering a basic custom built 90 m sq. house can be done in 12 weeks with two men.
              We would always say 16 weeks, and usually take 14, not because the individual house took that long, but because we would have several on the go at once at different stages.

              Cookie cutter houses would be even faster once the builders had some practice.

              4 of us got a house for a TV show from foundations to roof in 10 days. Despite having to do a lot of demolition and working around bits of an old house.
              • Fisiani …

                23 November 2012 at 9:42 pm

                5 minutes ago the SUPER builders could knock it up in 8 weeks now its 16. You need to get your lines right. That doubles the number of Oompa Loompas
                • KJT …

                  23 November 2012 at 10:05 pm

                  Obviously you cannot read Fizzer. Or have any knowledge at all of building.

                  It is 14 to 16 weeks because we are working on several houses at once.

                  The average for one house is obviously much less.

                  And that is for bigger than 90 sq m custom builds.

                  The guys who put up the same design all the time are faster even than us “super builders”.
                  • Fisiani …

                    24 November 2012 at 7:39 am

                    And your ‘obviously’ means that a house really can be built every 13 minutes??????? Are you ‘aving a larf?
                    Please please make it the centerpiece of housing policy in 2014.
                    People may not be able to get to the polls due to laughing.
                    You cannot win an election without credibility.
                    Another “show me the money” moment.
                    • Draco T Bastard …

                      24 November 2012 at 7:52 am

                      I’ll spell it out really simply: Yes, we can as a matter of fact build a house every 13 minutes in NZ over and above the ones being built now (which is probably more than 1 every 13 minutes).
                    • felix …

                      24 November 2012 at 8:11 am

                      Fisi is the genius who thinks unemployment can’t be going up because ‘more people are employed than ever!’

                      It’s hard for most us to believe that he’s actually imagining two builders starting a house and 13 minutes later having it completed and moving on to the next one, but he has just admitted that he can’t grasp the concept of percentages so it’s not out of the question.
                    • Te Reo Putake …

                      24 November 2012 at 8:37 am

                      Poor old Fisi. Here’s an entire skyscraper being built in two weeks.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      24 November 2012 at 8:49 am

                      A skyscraper which could fit what…500 apartments? Built in 2 weeks…35 apartments per day say…WOW amazing what you can achieve when you put your mind and your brains to a problem. Instead of moaning that everything is just too hard.
                    • Te Reo Putake …

                      24 November 2012 at 9:02 am

                      Yep. amazing alright! The company’s next project is to construct the world’s tallest building. 220 floors, 838 metres, housing for 31,000 people. Ok, it’ll take a wee bit longer than the one in the video to put up …. a mere 90 days.
                    • PlanetOrphan …

                      24 November 2012 at 9:35 am

                      NZ is currently building 10,000+- homes a year Fisiani,
                      by your screwed up maths that is indeed one home every 13 minutes.
                • Draco T Bastard …

                  23 November 2012 at 10:29 pm

                  Even if we had to double the number of needed builders we could still do it. Really, building that number of extra houses every year is easy – barely even touching upon the total resources we have available as a country but you, and the other RWNJs, don’t want to hear that as it goes against the myth that’s been built up over the decades and centuries that we can’t afford to. It’s proof positive that the National Party and the economists that support them have NFI WTF they’re talking about or that they’re lying.
            • Draco T Bastard 11.3.1.3.1.3

              23 November 2012 at 9:20 pm

              Generally speaking, if we’ve got the builders then we’ve got the rest. The builders will be the ones on site full time from the moment building starts to it’s completion. In other words, you’ll need significantly less of the other workers and they will be in proportion to the number of builders.

              That said, there always seems to be a shortage of plumbers…
              • MrSmith …

                23 November 2012 at 11:01 pm

                Builders and I mean qualified shouldn’t pick up a hammer for less than $45, pay peanuts you get monkeys, monkeys build leaky houses, all these extra builders are going to come from where ? 8000 hrs to train a carpenter, 4 years, or are they going to come flooding back for $25 an hr yeah right.

                I hope Labour have the numbers to back this up and even if they do Shearer will never be able to remember then unless he writes them on the back of his hand.
                • felix …

                  24 November 2012 at 7:51 am

                  “8000 hrs to train a carpenter, 4 years…”

                  Yeah. Imagine how many we could’ve trained in the last four years if National gave a fuck about unemployment.
                • Draco T Bastard …

                  24 November 2012 at 8:01 am

                  Builders and I mean qualified shouldn’t pick up a hammer for less than $45

                  Considering how much legal work my nephew has been doing in regards to his building (You’d be amazed at the number of building contractors who don’t know the building code) I keep telling him he should be charging out at $120/hour. Nobody seems to want to pay that though and the most he’s got since 2k8 is $32/hour and that was on a single job. All the other times he’s either been unemployed or paid in the mid 20s and Chch actually pays less.
12. AAMC 12

    23 November 2012 at 4:13 pm

    A quick calculation on a bank calculator to look at the affordability of these *cheap* houses.

    $400,000 @ 5.25% for 25 years = $550.00 per week.

    This is not low income housing.
    • Te Reo Putake 12.1

      23 November 2012 at 4:19 pm

      Yes, you are right. But who’s talking about $400k being low income housing? I recall the nats saying $380k was ‘affordable’. Is that what you mean?
      • AAMC 12.1.1

        23 November 2012 at 4:30 pm

        Ah, sorry you’re right, Labour is talking roughly 300k. So that’s $415 per week. Same criticism applies.

        Fortunately I can now afford a mortgage, but with the arrival of my second child on a low income and a 160k mortgage, we could barely eat. Turned me into a decent vege gardener, but…
        • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1

          23 November 2012 at 4:33 pm

          Government should be able to do mortgages at 2.5% pa.
          • AAMC 12.1.1.1.1

            23 November 2012 at 4:55 pm

            Is the intention for the Govt rather than private sector banks to do the lending?

            Don’t want to assume / comment because it may be in their econ policy, just printed to read. But I’d like to see LVR’s, LVT as well as CGT and some re zoning to free up all the land banks, like Giltrap’s down Great North Rd, a lot of apartments could come onto the market if that land was developed, right in the middle of the city within walking distance of jobs, and the local retail / entertainment economy.

            I gather work is being done, pressure applied to RBNZ to address the capital flow which is chasing yield from our interest rates.
            • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.1.1

              23 November 2012 at 7:15 pm

              Is the intention for the Govt rather than private sector banks to do the lending?

              Hmmmm that would be a break from neoliberalism and banksterism so I doubt it.
    • David H 12.2

      23 November 2012 at 5:26 pm

      $550.00 a week? Thats more than I get a week to feed me my partner a 17 year old and a 18 month-er. Buy a house ? Tui Time. And this is why I say Shearer is just way out of touch with the real people.
      • Te Reo Putake 12.2.1

        23 November 2012 at 5:57 pm

        Except it’s not $550 a week, David.
         
        It’s $300 k, less deposit. So, say, 270k. Weekly payments of around $400. About what you’d pay for rent for a modest family home in that Auckland. And with land being cheaper in the provinces, that $270k might be $240k. Mortgage of $350 pw? That’s realistic for many young couples starting out, I would have thought.
        • Colonial Viper 12.2.1.1

          23 November 2012 at 6:04 pm

          It’s $300 k, less deposit. So, say, 270k.

          Govt could offer zero deposit terms.

          You’ll be hard pressed to find a single income working class family on $35K pa who has a $30K deposit.

          Maybe a double income working class family on $60K can manage it
          • Te Reo Putake 12.2.1.1.1

            23 November 2012 at 6:20 pm

            Well, yeah, but then you’d be hard pressed to find a single income working class family on $35K. WFF would lift the household income substantially. But, realistically, both parents need to be working, at least initially, to afford a mortgage. A big ask in the current economy and with a government opposed to a living wage. Hell, opposed to full employment altogether.
             
            Saving for the deposit does take years, but it is also evidence of the ability to budget that banks take into account when granting the mortgage. The banks will only lend to a point where the mortgage payment is the highest proportion of household expenditure. Can’t remember the exact cutoff, but I think the household is likely to need to bring in $800 pw to be granted a mortgage of around half that. So, maybe 40- 50k income and it becomes a runner at $350 – 400 pw payments. Any bankers out there? Can you shine a light on the actual percentages?
            • KJT 12.2.1.1.1.1

              23 November 2012 at 9:28 pm

              The point is increasing the supply of houses in the $300k range is also going to help the availability of rentals and houses in the cheaper ranges. Simple supply and demand.

              Helping anyone looking for a house.
              • weka …

                23 November 2012 at 9:45 pm

                why not just build cheaper houses?
                • MrSmith …

                  23 November 2012 at 11:11 pm

                  We tried that Weka, they are now called leacky homes and are now costing you and me mill/bill….of $$ and lets not forget earthquakes, so houses now will have to be stronger than ever and water tight, for a while, till we all forget, and start building cheap houses again in about 10 years, maybe 15 this time.
                  • Colonial Viper …

                    24 November 2012 at 9:10 am

                    Well, those houses weren’t actually “cheaper” to the buyer, they were just cheaper to the property developers because of corners cut, and it was the developers who walked away with the difference as profits.
                    • MrSmith …

                      24 November 2012 at 11:50 am

                      I really think property developers get a bad rap CV , the problems start with the the drawing of plans and what the council will and won’t allow. Some developers will get away with whatever the council lets them get away with and so they all start cheating to keep up, you could liken it to cycling.

                      “Developing is akin to playing Russian roulette. You can pull the trigger and draw a blank, although why you would want to I can’t imagine, but, because of the addiction factor, developers keep on doing so until sooner or later inevitably they draw the bullet.”
                      Bob Jones:
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      24 November 2012 at 11:58 am

                      Who lobbied for the council changes? Who lobbied for deregulation of the building industry (“self-regulation”)? Who manufactured, sold and profited from the fashionable new building materials which turned out to be rubbish?
13. joe90 13

    23 November 2012 at 4:20 pm

    sigh…

    ‏السيد مانكي
    @Sandmonkey

    My Father just sent me a text message telling me to not come back, that there is no law or judicial system to protect me now.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20451208

    Egypt’s President Mohammed Mursi has issued a declaration banning challenges to his decrees, laws and decisions.

    The declaration also says no court can dissolve the constituent assembly, which is drawing up a new constitution.

    President Mursi also sacked the chief prosecutor and ordered the retrial of people accused of attacking protesters when ex-President Mubarak held office.

    Egyptian opposition leader Mohammed ElBaradei accused Mr Mursi of acting like a “new pharaoh”.

    In a joint news conference held late on Thursday, Mr ElBaradai and other opposition figures described the declaration as a “coup against legitimacy” and called on Egyptians to take to the streets in protest.
    • Rogue Trooper 13.1

      23 November 2012 at 5:40 pm

      an interesting few lines of text
14. Paul 14

    23 November 2012 at 4:47 pm

    I hear Jane Clifton was on the Panel today and discussing the Labour Party conference last weekend.
    Did Jim Moira challenge her about a potential conflict of interest?
    • Anne 14.1

      23 November 2012 at 6:05 pm

      I tuned in briefly, recognised her voice, so tuned out. To my knowledge she wasn’t there – at least not on the conference floor. She wouldn’t have been far away though… waiting for yet more tid-bits from her new beau that she could then leak (on new beau’s behalf) to her journo pals.
15. gobsmacked 15

    23 November 2012 at 5:35 pm

    Key and Shearer are on Q & A this Sunday, TV One 9am …

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1211/S00502/qa-this-sunday.htm
16. Penny Bright 16

    23 November 2012 at 5:43 pm

    Seen this folks? 

    Can YOU help collect signatures on the SIGNATHON for a couple of hours over this weekend?

    Have YOU ‘switched off Mercury Energy’?
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    PRESS RELEASE: “The Switch Off Mercury Energy community group urges New Zealanders opposed to asset sales to support the nation-wide SIGNATHON this weekend!”  Switch Off Mercury Energy Spokesperson,  Penny Bright.

     

    This weekend, 24 -25 November 2012, there is a huge push all over New Zealand by the Keep Our Assets coalition to get the final 80,000 signatures required to help force a Citizens Initiated Referendum on the government’s proposed state asset sales. 

    At 300 places, from the top of the North Island to the bottom of the South Island, New Zealanders will have an opportunity to sign this petition, which asks the House of Representatives to hold an ‘indicative referendum’ on the following question:

    “Do you support the Government selling up to 49% of Meridian Energy, Mighty River Power, Genesis Power, Solid Energy and Air New Zealand?”

    
    

    This Signathon site has over 300 collection points .
    Those who can help collect signatures at any of these 300 collection points are encouraged to   sign on to the one that’s most convenient, and turn up at the location on the day.
    Those who  can’t make it to one of the Signathon collection points but still have a bit of time to collect signatures on the weekend are being encouraged to  download and print some petition forms for themselves.

    “National – who campaigned in the 2011 election on asset sales – has only 59 out of 121 MPs – which is not a majority.  No majority = no mandate for asset sales,” says  a Switch Off Mercury Energy Spokesperson,  Penny Bright.

     

    “National were dependent on the votes of ACT Leader John Banks, MP for Epsom and United Future Leader Peter Dunne, MP for Ohariu for the passing of the Mixed Ownership Model Act – which scraped through the House 61 votes  to  60.”

     

    “The Switch Off Mercury Energy community group calls on New Zealanders to consider backing  up your signatures for  this referendum against asset sales,  with further ‘people power’ action that will help stop the proposed sale of the first State-Owned electricity asset under the Mixed Ownership Act – Mighty River Power – by ‘switching off’ Mercury Energy.”

     

    Mercury Energy is 100% owned by Mighty River Power, which is the first publicly owned state asset the current National Government is trying to privatise. Originally intended to start in September this year, due to public pressure the Government has delayed the sale until March 2013.

     

    While delayed, asset sales have not stopped.  This Switch Off Mercury Energy campaign aims to stop the Government’s first asset sale plans by making Mighty River Power and unattractive investment.

     

    “Remember, ‘People power’ campaigns DO work!

     

    In 2008, Contact Energy (already privatised), increased electricity prices 12% and doubled their Directors’ fees.  After public outrage they lost over 40,000 customers within six months and their profit was cut in half!

     

    For more information, on how to ‘Switch Off Mercury Energy’ and recommendations for where to ‘switch’ :

     

    http://switchoffmercuryenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SOME-11-September-2012-Switch-off-leaflet6g.pdf  ” concludes Ms Bright.

     

     
17. Rogue Trooper 17

    23 November 2012 at 7:07 pm

    from the back of the hard copy from the fishpond

    “…a far more frightening work than any of the nightmare novels of George Orwell.With the logic(oooh)
    which is the great instrument of French thought, (Ellul) explores and attempts to prove the thesis that
    propaganda, whether the ends are demonstrably good or bad, is not only destructive to democracy, it is
    perhaps the most serious threat to humanity operating in the modern world.”-L.A Times

    “The theme of Propaganda (sans italicisezation) Achtung ma cherie, I digress, is quite simply
    that when our new technology encompasses any culture or society, the result is propaganda
    (don’t quote me on that.score)

    -Marshall McLuhan
    oh well, wheels have rolled on since then…

    -Pierrepoint
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierrepoint_(film).Tim,or was it pete? one of The Usual Suspects
    go figure
18. Rogue Trooper 18

    23 November 2012 at 7:10 pm

    pg.1

    It was a dark and stormy night, all through the house…”I’m Bored…zzzzzzzzzz.

    btw, lots of little bees carved or sculptered, here and there at St Matthews.boing
19. Draco T Bastard 19

    23 November 2012 at 7:57 pm

    Reading this article about data-centres and how much power they use when I noticed this passage:

    Companies also guard their technology for competitive reasons, said Michael Manos, a longtime industry executive. “All of those things play into each other to foster this closed, members-only kind of group,” he said.

    Yep, competition, keeping inefficiency high because people are chasing the almighty profit.
    • Rogue Trooper 19.1

      23 November 2012 at 8:04 pm

      Holy Schemozzle Batman.To the IBM cave….
20. Draco T Bastard 20

    23 November 2012 at 9:24 pm

    What Capitalists Want for Christmas

    A group of CEOs led by Macy’s Terry Lundgren calling itself the Fix the Debt coalition is hoping for a deficit-busting austerity budget this holiday season—not a program to create American jobs.

    Why? Because high unemployment “keeps their workers in check” by driving up competition for jobs, writes Lynn Stuart Parramore at AlterNet.

    And the party of business in NZ is?
    And their leader said?
21. geoff 21

    23 November 2012 at 10:19 pm

    Check this out:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10849297

    Grr. The only positive out of this is getting rid of Garner.

    Media and both sides of the political spectrum having a great time pissing up together.
    Just having a fucking laugh really eh?

    No wonder all of them are covertly against the democratisation of the labour party, their cosy little lifestyles would be completely fucked if the idea were to take hold across the political spectrum.

    Gawd I hope the leadership vote happens in Feb.
    • redfred 21.1

      24 November 2012 at 10:15 am

      Leadership vote, on that note it isn’t over; first shot back me thinks. I’m thinking of joining the party again.

      “a health sector source who worked closely with Cunliffe. He is the right type to lead New Zealand, she told the Herald , having character, brains, heart and being in “politics for all the right reasons”.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10849606

      How may polls due between now and Feb? Lets face it Shearer is going to sink back into obscurity, any media opportunities he gets he will fluff.

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