Open Mike 24/04/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 24th, 2018 - 142 comments
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142 comments on “Open Mike 24/04/2018 ”

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  1. AsleepWhileWalking 1
    24 April 2018 at 6:27 am

    Man with 3 pregnant partners – fails to inform immigration of this (but he is wealthy so apparently that’s OK)

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12037904

    He has done a few multi-million dollar developments in New Zealand, including retirement villages,” Delamere said.

    Delamere said the man had “many” children but could not say how many.

    Of the two other women, who the Herald understands are also from China, one holds a residence visa and the other is on a guardianship visa.

    • savenz 1.1
      24 April 2018 at 7:53 am

      Shocking, doesn’t even know how many children he has! I guess that’s ok because NZ is there to support them and his other partners and pay their medical and social welfare costs and build more schools… but he build a retirement village (most of them rip people off) and is wealthy. No wonder a shortage of midwives when you have 3 women concurrently carrying your offspring and ‘good character’ being less important than government ideology – then they complain why the Natz have so many voters – just wait 18 years and there will be even more change!

      • savenz 1.1.1
        24 April 2018 at 8:06 am

        As for the Guardianship visa, sounds like one of the women must be pretty young… time for the government to stop handing our citizenship and residency like lollies, our health care and social services can’t take much more – especially if we are getting into concubine type arrangements with multiple women having kids concurrently in NZ hospitals and going to NZ schools.

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 1.1.2
        24 April 2018 at 1:56 pm

        This is a classic extreme right wing rant. Immigrants coming in and taking all the medical budgets and living on social welfare, clogging up our school systems.

        • savenz 1.1.2.1
          24 April 2018 at 3:10 pm

          I think the right wing rant is, hopeless drugged Kiwis, let us get superior cheaper labour, build our retirement villages and luxury hotels (and fill them up, profits, profits) and the social system will provide. You’re behind the times there, Tuppence, your thinking the back 80 years before widespread cheap airlines and easy tax havens… world’s moved on on how to exploit labour and other people.

          • savenz 1.1.2.1.1
            24 April 2018 at 3:35 pm

            Another pressing problem for right wingers and luxury developers is that you have no idea how difficult it is to get $30 million for a home in Queenstown for example if you ban foreign buyers! The market is going to collapse overnight! Lucky the Queenstown Mayor is asking for an exception for Queenstown and there is plenty of lawyers ready for fight for their foreign buyer and richer interests.

    • Tamati Tautuhi 1.2
      24 April 2018 at 8:38 am

      …. so where supporting Chinese immigrants with multiple partners and children also, we really are a soft touch ?

      Thank God we have a “Rockstar Economy” to hand out all this welfare ?

      • savenz 1.2.1
        24 April 2018 at 9:42 am

        Don’t forget the aged parents too. For every migrant couple 4 aged parents can come into NZ, and I guess if you have multiple partners and marriage split ups and can get new wives into NZ, the amount of parents eligible keeps going up!

        Even the Natz had to eventually change the rules to 10 years before migrant parents got free everything, because so many migrants were ‘abandoned’ by their sponsors (aka kids) and had to go on welfare as well as being a quote Mr Woodhouse, “burden on the health services that are considerably higher than other people of that age who are eligible for New Zealand public health services.”

        Even with the new rules 10 years is nothing when people can live to 100 years old and can get a pension, health care, Gold card with free travel, and it costs $1000 a week in a rest home, which might go on for years,, especially since we seem to be attracting National loving migrants that have few morals, abandon their parents, have multiple children to multiple partners concurrently, etc etc.

        This is just from 2016 so the figures and costs will just be increasing and I think thats just the 10 million in costs before they get the free care as residents which will be millions if not billions over a lifetime more … no wonder there is no money to fix mouldy Middlemore for Kiwi kids who are going to grow up without a stable house, decent hospital to go to, high student debt and a low wage job, with higher taxes to pay for all the ‘aged folks’ that the government deliberately gave free care to while abandoning it’s own people and taxpayers and turning their backs on them when they are growing up, while milking the first student loan generation for more taxes!

        Migrants’ parents cost NZ ‘tens of millions’
        https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/315435/migrants'-parents-cost-nz-'tens-of-millions‘

        The government needs to clean up their immigration act. Our government should not even allow aged parents in as residents with free care on the NZ taxpayer and remove the ability for kids to be used as a reason for residency.

        Migrant family members should not get citizenship or residency – they could just get a visa to stay with family and the person has to have FULL insurance for all their health care and social service needs the entire time they are here, just like Kiwis have to, if they travel overseas.

        Only those on refugee visa should be eligible for free care.

    • Gabby 1.3
      24 April 2018 at 11:05 am

      Now there’s a fellow who knows how to colonise.

      • savenz 1.3.1
        24 April 2018 at 11:44 am

        Saw a documentary about OZ quite a while ago, and their category for immigration was that the person has to employ 2 native Australian citizens and they had to have a profit on a business of over $50k per year for 5 years to qualify for residency.

        In NZ we seem to want the complete opposite and to get as many people coming in and adding family members needing social welfare and health services, as possible. With creative accounting you can be as rich as crocus but not a profit in sight.

        Probably the only reason they noticed this man’s activities was that the pregnant women went on benefits.

        I guess that’s why they have 30% higher wages over in Australia!

  2. Sacha 2
    24 April 2018 at 7:19 am

    A study in conspiracy belief, which some have noted connects many recent US shooters:
    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kg8j3/conspiracy-theorists-just-want-to-feel-special

    “Belief in conspiracies can serve to set oneself apart from the ignorant masses—a self-serving boast about one’s exclusive knowledge. Adherence to conspiracy theory might not always be the result of some perceived lack of control, but rather a deep-seated need for uniqueness.”

    • Andre 2.1
      24 April 2018 at 7:32 am

      Conspiracy theorists are kind of like modern-day Schrodinger’s cats. They exist in a weird state of quantum superposition where they are simultaneously the most skeptical of all people and the most gullible.

      • Ed 2.1.1
        24 April 2018 at 7:38 am

        The Term “Conspiracy Theory” Was Invented by the CIA In Order To Prevent Disbelief of Official Government Stories.
        And people who regurgitate the term help authoritarian governments.

        https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/08/24/the-term-conspiracy-theory-was-invented-by-the-cia-in-order-to-prevent-disbelief-of-official-government-stories/

        • Sacha 2.1.1.1
          24 April 2018 at 7:45 am

          It’s a conspiracy!

          • Ed 2.1.1.1.1
            24 April 2018 at 9:03 am

            ‘The act of two or more persons, called conspirators, working secretly to obtain some goal, usually understood with negative connotations.’

            https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/conspiracy

            • McFlock 2.1.1.1.1.1
              24 April 2018 at 1:17 pm

              And the word “theory” would be in the sense of “unproven conjecture”, no?

          • Morrissey 2.1.1.1.2
            24 April 2018 at 10:14 am

            Sacha, do you think that the invasion and destruction of Iraq in 2003 just happened? You don’t think that a small group of politicians and their fanatical advisers didn’t conspire to commit that crime?

            Do you think that stating that these criminals conspired to commit this crime is just a paranoid fantasy?

        • James 2.1.1.2
          24 April 2018 at 8:58 am

          “The Term “Conspiracy Theory” Was Invented by the CIA ”

          Oh Ed

          The irony in your post is simply the funniest thing I have read all week.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.3
          24 April 2018 at 10:59 am

          The Term “Conspiracy Theory” Was Invented by the CIA In Order To Prevent Disbelief of Official Government Stories.

          True but that doesn’t make the term false.

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 2.1.1.4
          24 April 2018 at 2:00 pm

          You’ve reached peak crazy. Conspiracy theories about the CIA et al are actually just a conspiracy theory.

        • joe90 2.1.1.5
          24 April 2018 at 3:51 pm

          Dude’s gone to the trouble of debunking the claptrap Robert’s dishes up to gullible fuckwits.

          History of the Term “Conspiracy Theory”

          The term “conspiracy theory” is used to describe any theory that attempts to characterize observed events as the result of some secret conspiracy. The term is often used dismissively, implying that the theory is implausible.

          Although conspiracy theories (particularly aimed at Jews and Bankers) date back hundreds of years, the earliest usage of “conspiracy theory” do not always have this connotation, although the theories are quite often dismissed in other ways. Usually it’s simply a way of identifying the theory from other theories – as in “the theory that happens to have a conspiracy”

          The first usage I could find was from 1870, The Journal of mental science: Volume 16 – Page 14

          The theory of Dr. Sankey as to the manner in which these injuries to the chest occurred in asylums deserved our careful attention. It was at least more plausible that the conspiracy theory of Mr. Charles Beade, and the precautionary measure suggested by Dr. Sankey of using a padded waistcoat in recent cases of mania with general paralysis—in which mental condition nearly all these cases under discussion were—seemed to him of practical value.

          https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-the-cia-invented-the-term-conspiracy-theory-in-1967-in-use-for-70-years-prior.t960/

          • Ed 2.1.1.5.1
            24 April 2018 at 4:00 pm

            I know you despise Russia.

          • McFlock 2.1.1.5.2
            24 April 2018 at 4:22 pm

            yup, and the OED has an example from 1909.

            As well as a 1964 New statesman article using the term “conspiracy theorists”:

            1964 New Statesman 1 May 694/2 Conspiracy theorists will be disappointed by the absence of a dogmatic introduction.

            How times fail to change lol

        • mauī 2.1.1.6
          24 April 2018 at 10:01 pm

          You are right Ed. Pilger, Hager, Parry, Bartlett, Roberts – all conspiracy theorists because they don’t tow the company line. What a sad state of affairs.

      • One Two 2.1.2
        24 April 2018 at 9:10 am

        Most skeptical…most gullible…

        Black White
        Yes No
        On Off
        1 0

        Spectrums, Andre…

        You comment seems to have missed that…

      • tracey 2.1.3
        24 April 2018 at 10:31 am

        And they enable people with evidence based coverup assertions to be dismissed. We see this every time Hager releases a book.

        I watched The Post over the weekend and was minded how far the 4th Estate has moved from its purpose.

        Key and others have successfully shut peoples eyes to the evidence Hager produces to back his assertions with a simple ” looney conspiracy theorist”.

        • Andre 2.1.3.1
          24 April 2018 at 10:57 am

          Yep, those out on the fringes do real damage that way.

          As do those who refuse to acknowledge the parts of the mainstream media that still function reasonably effectively. The likes of Matt Nippert come to mind.

          • tracey 2.1.3.1.1
            24 April 2018 at 11:12 am

            Agree not all msm is stuffed up but the paucity of genuine both side non cut and paste party press releases makes it too easy to spot the ones doing a great job.

    • One Two 2.2
      24 April 2018 at 9:01 am

      Still running others down, Sacha…

      You’re special too…just like everyone else…

      • Ed 2.2.1
        24 April 2018 at 9:11 am

        Shooting the messenger is another way to shut down debate and dissent.

      • solkta 2.2.2
        24 April 2018 at 9:13 am

        So conspiracy theorists should not have their ideas and possible reasons for holding those ideas critiqued? Is it only those with right wing views who deserve to be scrutinised?

        • One Two 2.2.2.1
          24 April 2018 at 9:58 am

          Who’s suggesting that?

          • solkta 2.2.2.1.1
            24 April 2018 at 10:04 am

            Sacha posted a link about a conspiracy belief study and you responded with an accusation of “running others down”.

            • One Two 2.2.2.1.1.1
              24 April 2018 at 10:47 am

              Sacha is essentially taking aim at a group of people, by dismissing them with a link to a [whatever] study…

              In recent times Sacha has applauded bans, asked for bans and requested others withhold sympathy for Penny Bright…

              The link and insinuation is to run others down down…

              Bitterness…

              • Sacha …
                24 April 2018 at 11:01 am

                get another hobby phil.

              • Tuppence Shrewsbury …
                24 April 2018 at 2:03 pm

                Is the study part of the conspiracy about conspiracy theories?

                could big academia really be running the show with big government the product of it’s out put from elite universities? But that would mean those selected would have to been malleable at high school to be susceptible for recruitment to these elite secret organisations.

                It probably started all the way back with big academia. The kindergarten teachers control it all, we just think they’re on low pay. but really, they are pre selecting the global elites for the next generations.

            • Sacha 2.2.2.1.1.2
              24 April 2018 at 11:06 am

              The context I encountered it in, as mentioned, was about what connects the right-wing white men who go on shooting rampages in the US.

              It’s like observing that children who torture animals tend to commit violence against people as adults. Useful if acted upon.

  3. Ffloyd 3
    24 April 2018 at 8:00 am

    What s the deal with these attacks on Gayford? See the Derp is having a go now. What a thoroughly unpleasant person she is. Obviously Jacinda is not giving them much to hammer her on . I was shocked to see another sad desparate attack on CG so soon after that distinctly odd one from Deborah whatshername. On their way out and they know it. Sounds like they are team tagging. Wish there was still the facility to COMMENT on these cowardly mutterings.

    • dv 3.1
      24 April 2018 at 8:11 am

      Headline in Herald

      Deborah Hill Cone column criticising Clarke Gayford divides New Zealand
      While many were opposed to the opinions expressed in the column, a SMALL PROPORTION threw their weight behind Hill Cone, suggesting he was “lapping up” the attention.

      I suppose technically a SMALL PROPORTION is divided!!! BUT hardly justifies the headline.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12038073

    • AB 3.2
      24 April 2018 at 8:37 am

      When was the last time a Prime Ministerial spouse was attacked for the sort of person they were?
      Answer: Peter Davis
      Very different personalities Gayford and Davis but the similarities are:
      Labour PMs
      Male spouses
      Not conventional, conservative alpha males from business, finance, law etc. so in the minds of right wing commentators they are simply the ‘wrong sort’ of people to be associated with power.
      We are likely to see more of it. If sex can be brought into it then watch out – remember the insinuations that Davis was gay?
      It really is a fight to the death when you offend power and privilege.

      • mauī 3.2.1
        24 April 2018 at 8:58 am

        Gayford is popular, likeable and extroverted though otherwise he wouldn’t have had numerous tv jobs, while Davis was easy to bully due to his quiet personality.

        The Harold has gone down the track of attacking someone popular and likeable. I think they’ve totally lost it.

        • Incognito 3.2.1.1
          24 April 2018 at 9:12 am

          It was never about Peter Davis, it was about Helen Clark who was PM at the time.

          Similarly, it is not about Clarke Gayford but about Jacinda Ardern, who’s the current PM.

          It is not in the public interest and therefore some manufacture public interest and lo and behold the public is very interested. Good for some …

          Every piece that gets written, every word that is uttered about this feeds it and gives it more oxygen. Defending it is in some ways the worst thing that one can do; it is catch 22.

          If the Government were to propose major tax changes, for example, it would knock it out of the ring and out of the limelight (away from the public attention). However, this would be bad politics and a weak attempt to regain control of the news cycle and media narrative.

          Give them the death stare!

          • Rosemary McDonald 3.2.1.1.1
            24 April 2018 at 10:12 am

            My partner and I very nearly disappeared down a rabbit hole a couple of weeks ago while in conversation with a seemingly fairly ‘normal’ Kiwi van dweller.
            From general conversation about lack of enforcement of agrochemical regulations by territorial authorities the korero turned rapidly to assertions that our PM and her beloved are both ‘trannies, and the pregnancy a total fiction.

            We have the occasional very odd conversation, being somewhat transient and part of a community that resides in the margins, but this raised our eyebrows.
            And this person was truly sincere…and allowed to wander the world without the supervision they so clearly need.

            We retired early, arose before dawn and folded our tent and fled.

            No point whatsoever in engaging with these people.

            • tracey 3.2.1.1.1.1
              24 April 2018 at 10:19 am

              Sadly we know that once a rumour hits mainstream, it s veracity is irrelevant.

              I spent years listening to my brother refer to our then PM as Alan Clarke. About how close she was to “Heather”. About Peter’s sexuality. We think we live in an enlightened country but still some of the first things done to lessen someone in our eyes is to impune their sexuality.

              I doubt this is where the Gayford rumour is going but this is SO dirty politics

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                24 April 2018 at 10:37 am

                A neighbour used to rant interminably about Aunty Helen and her beloved…along similar lines.

                What is it with that?

                Concentrate on what matters….their performance as an elected representative.

                All else is irrelevant.

                Having said that…it behooves our elected representatives to assiduously avoid all engagement with the media that is not work related.

                • tracey …
                  24 April 2018 at 10:41 am

                  Agree with your last comment. 100%

                  I mean Eagleston (?)) seemingly would do anything for Key, at times way over the line but I never heard a single person suggrst the PM had a sham marriage to cover his relationship with him?

            • Carolyn_Nth 3.2.1.1.1.2
              24 April 2018 at 10:51 am

              I’ve seen one of these rumours on the web -it includes TV-ism, man-whoring for jobs, hard drugs – and in a post that connects this somehow with some Russian-Jewish global conspiracy.

              So OTT that it’s not really credible – but I guess some people, unfortunately, will buy into it.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                24 April 2018 at 11:06 am

                So OTT that it’s not really credible – but I guess some people, unfortunately, will buy into it.

                It’s not credible and so it must be true seems to be such people’s thinking.

            • mauī 3.2.1.1.1.3
              24 April 2018 at 11:33 am

              From general conversation about lack of enforcement of agrochemical regulations by territorial authorities the korero turned rapidly to assertions that our PM and her beloved are both ‘trannies, and the pregnancy a total fiction.

              Did they make any mention of the Anderson’s Bay Peninsula branch of the Labour Party too? 😉 lol sorry couldn’t resist.

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                24 April 2018 at 12:28 pm

                We very adroitly terminated the conversation before it moved on to this person’s experience as an alien abductee…probably amounts to the same thing?

          • greywarshark 3.2.1.1.2
            24 April 2018 at 11:21 am

            Cheer up all. Incognito says give them the death stare. So watch Eddie Izzard, a trannie par excellence, do his death star canteen bit, it will give you a weak laugh and strengthen you enough to stagger away and face these smiling assassins so prevalent.
            Lord Vader gives you:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv5iEK-IEzw

            More food oriented Izzard:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZVjKlBCvhg
            Followed by 6 minutes of populist historical political
            comment!

        • Stuart Munro 3.2.1.2
          24 April 2018 at 9:20 am

          Gayford is much more dangerous to the Herald narrative than they had initially supposed – he’s a media presence with a degree of popularity. They recognize in him the kind of public connection for which Key had to confess pissing in the shower and endure prison rape jokes.

          • veutoviper 3.2.1.2.1
            24 April 2018 at 12:01 pm

            Gayford is also currently a writer for the Herald – a weekly column in the Travel section. So what the hell are the Herald* up to allowing one of their writers to diss another in this way?

            More detail in my comment here – https://thestandard.org.nz/bottom-feeding-fish/#comment-1478090

            * Or is it a case of one being a writer for the Herald and the other for the Herald on Sunday; or both for the Herald on Sunday?

            Will check that detail …

            • Kaya3 3.2.1.2.1.1
              24 April 2018 at 12:51 pm

              It’s nothing so sinister, it’s simply clickbait and it seems to be working. It is all the Herald has to offer. Don’t even read it. Nonsensical rag.

          • Tamati Tautuhi 3.2.1.2.2
            25 April 2018 at 6:54 am

            Similar to the relationship Key had with Ritchie McCaw and the All Blacks ?

        • Ed 3.2.1.3
          24 April 2018 at 9:24 am

          The Herald have gone on full attack this week.

          duplicity said Jacinda was like Trump.
          Hill Con(e) attacks Clarke.
          Soper says Jacinda ’s unusual.

          All are tools and paid puppets writing dirt to keep their beastly jobs.

      • Ffloyd 3.2.2
        24 April 2018 at 9:07 am

        I wonder how long it will be before they start bringing up Clarke’s exes. That’s what bottom feeders do. They rise to the top and become scum. All the whole hiding behind the ‘no comments ‘ position. Cowards as well.

        • tracey 3.2.2.1
          24 April 2018 at 10:22 am

          And if any exes are being offered money for stories? Thing is we will never know thevtruth of any assertions but Dirty Politics and subsequent enactment by Joyce et al has surely taught us the truth is irrelevant, once it is out there as long as 50% believe it, Nats are winning.

        • greywarshark 3.2.2.2
          24 April 2018 at 10:33 am

          Ffloyd
          Clever – bottom feeders rise to the top and become scum.
          Should be taught in schools – a great example of physics and political science all in one. Learning practical detail like this would be better for an alert informed citizenry.

      • patricia bremner 3.2.3
        24 April 2018 at 9:32 am

        Yes, there have been hints of “Tradeau and Ardern” in a few small minds.

    • Tamati Tautuhi 3.3
      24 April 2018 at 8:40 am

      Right they can’t deliver the hits on Jacaranda so they are going to attack her family “Dirty Politics 101”.

      • ianmac 3.4.1
        24 April 2018 at 9:39 am

        Wondered too.
        “1.used as a substitute for speech regarded as meaningless or stupid, or to comment on a foolish or stupid action.
        “Lower tax rates and far lower job creation. Derp”

      • Jilly Bee 3.4.2
        24 April 2018 at 11:34 am

        Ed, I’m fairly sure it’s a play on Heather du Plessis Allan’s name – eminently suitable I reckon.

        • Ffloyd 3.4.2.1
          25 April 2018 at 10:02 am

          Yes Jilly Bee. Came out of my inability to ever remember her name properly. Hence Derp. Looked it up and got definition as shown above by ianmac. Also is a slang term for ‘stupid action or stupid person”. Both are a good fit for HEathER. GEDDIT? 2ES!

  4. Tony Veitch (not etc) 4
    24 April 2018 at 8:27 am

    Just been having a chuckle over a passage in the book, ‘Reilly, Ace of Spies’ by Robin Bruce Lockhart. Russia, 1918.

    “. . . and Boyce had spent a considerable sum for some correspondence which seemed to prove conclusively that the Bolsheviks were in secret liaison with the German High Command and that the British War Cabinet’s belief that Lenin and Trotsky were German agents was correct. When Reilly examined this correspondence with Hill, he discovered that although the letters purported to come from different parts of Russia, they were all typed on the same typewriter. As the whole correspondence was obviously faked, Reilly suggested to Boyce that he should re-sell it to the Americans. Boyce did so. Mr. Sissons of the U.S. mission in Petrograd paid a very large sum for the documents and Boyce made a profit on the deal.”

    The American seem to have an affinity for ‘fake news’ even back at the beginning of last century! Or perhaps that they were fws then and still today?

  5. Reality 5
    24 April 2018 at 9:21 am

    HDPA and DHC(with an e – and how utterly feeble is a comment like that) show themselves up to be sour nasty types with little joy or humour in their lives.

    The spouses photo would have been taken by an official photographer who saw the opportunity for something a bit different which most people would look at with a smile on their face rather than a scowl like these two sad commentators.

  6. patricia bremner 6
    24 April 2018 at 9:36 am

    “Bottom feeders”…. guess who lost most face? LOL LOL

  7. Sacha 7
    24 April 2018 at 11:44 am

    Finland cans its guaranteed income trial, reverts to previous welfare system: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/23/finland-to-end-basic-income-trial-after-two-years

  8. Draco T Bastard 8
    24 April 2018 at 12:47 pm

    Why the problem is economics, not economists

    It’s monolithic all the way down
    The uncritical acceptance of one methodology begins with undergraduate economics education. Rethinking Economics conducted a curriculum review of 174 modules at 7 Russell Group universities – rightly or wrongly considered the ‘top’ universities in the UK – and we found that the uncritical acceptance of one type of economics begins with education. Under 10% of modules even mentioned anything other than mainstream or ‘neoclassical’ economics; in econometrics, over 90% of modules devoted more than two-thirds of their lectures to linear regression. Only 24% of exam questions required critical or independent thinking (i.e. were open-ended); this dropped to 8% if you only counted the compulsory macro and micro modules that form the core of economics education.

    We have previously called this ‘indoctrination’, and while this may seem dramatic the dictionary definition of indoctrination is to “teach a person or set of people to accept a set of beliefs uncritically”, which we think adequately characterises the results of the review, as well as our own experience and many widely used economics textbooks. Given this education, it is no wonder that economists remain wedded to the fundamental precepts of choice models and linear regression no matter where they turn their attention. By putting the method first, the implicit assumption becomes that answering a question using this framework is prima facie interesting, and critical evaluation of these tools against others is made unthinkable.

    Which actually tells me that the problem is economists getting economics wrong.

    No wonder the whole worlds fucked after listening to them for the last 200+ years.

    • satty 8.1
      24 April 2018 at 12:57 pm

      At the moment, I’m reading “Growth Delusion” by David Pilling. We clearly follow the wrong path only considering GDP without seriously questioning the methodology and numbers behind GDP. You can completely destroy life, society, environment and everything… on short term it’s all fantastic for the GDP growth.

    • KJT 8.2
      25 April 2018 at 10:37 am

      Economists. Todays version of chicken entrials.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1
        25 April 2018 at 10:57 am

        Economists would be fine – if they were actually studying the economy rather than trying to predict human behaviour. The economy is physical, the actual reality within which we live and human behaviour needs to exist within that reality and so our nature should not become an excuse to try to exist outside of it.

        Nature bats last, doesn’t negotiate and doesn’t take prisoners.

  9. Tuppence Shrewsbury 9
    24 April 2018 at 4:28 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/103249836/middlemore-hospital-what-really-went-down-between-health-minister-and-counties-manukau-dhb

    Looks like middlemore isn’t the crises the national party was supposed to have left it as. Quelle Horreur! dirty politcs from the left on this issue

    • McFlock 9.1
      24 April 2018 at 4:40 pm

      So if the board member thinks it’s a beat up, what was clark told about? 123 million unicorn farts?

    • Stuart Munro 9.2
      24 April 2018 at 4:45 pm

      Nothing DP about it – they circulated reports instead of fixing things – it’s an old trick for staying within budget, but not calculated to endear one to a new employer.

    • chris73 9.3
      24 April 2018 at 4:48 pm

      Let me see if I can explain. Its dirty politics if the right do it but if the left do it…well the left don’t it so its not dirty politics and even if the left did do it (which of course they don’t) its only because the right do it and thus the left are forced to doing it to level the playing field but as already mentioned they don’t do it, ever

      • McFlock 9.3.1
        24 April 2018 at 5:09 pm

        What exaclty is “dirty” here – is a pretend-independent blogger feeding outright lies to a quietly partisan but less rabid blogger who feeds the lies to partisan reporters for partisan media to duly report as the lies are being discussed?

        Or are ministers and officials merely disagreeing publicly about how dilapidated hospital buildings are, and when they were told?

        Your moral compass is showing…

      • Drowsy M. Kram 9.3.2
        24 April 2018 at 6:10 pm

        In NZ, dirty politics has spawned one popular book: “Dirty Politics – How attack politics is poisoning New Zealand’s political environment” (2014).

        National, painted and tainted ‘dirty’, still trying to whitewash themselves by (more) muck-racking – good luck!

        Maybe the absence of a well-researched book summarising dirty politics originating from left-leaning NZ governments is due to the lack of enough real dirt to make a good story. Or maybe it’s just a matter of time until the left ‘catch up’ – hope not.

    • joe90 9.4
      24 April 2018 at 5:29 pm

      National didn’t give a rats about a hospital with shit all over the shop because, surplus….

      Timeline

      • 2012 – Large cladding panel falls off the Scott Building. Checks reveal weathertightness problems and leaking. Leaks also fund at Manukau SuperClinic

      • 2013 – Leaks found at Kidz First

      • 2014 – Leaks found at McIndoe Building

      • 2016 – Leaking issues outlined to Ministry of Health, according to DHB

      • Mid-2016 Auditor-General’s report shows Counties Manukau reporting it had 89 per cent life left in its buildings

      • 2017 – Sewage and sanitation problems are again raised with the board

      • Feb 2017 – Treasury rates Counties Manukau among top half of DHBs for repairs and maintenance

      • Mid-2017 – DHB commissions first overall expert appraisal of buildings

      • Nov 2017 – Independent surveyor Alexander and Co report for DHB outlines problems with buildings

      • November 22 – DHB Strategic Assessment Case sets out $123m worth of work across multiple buildings. That amount is now known to be an underestimate.

      • Feb 21, 2018 – Counties Manukau DHB appears before health select committee. No mention of specific problems are raised.

      • March 13 – David Clark visits Middlemore, where he says he was told about rot, mould and sewage in Scott Building but no other buildings.

      • March 20 (circa) – Government approves additional $11.5m towards repairs in Scott Building

      • March 22 – RNZ reports based on OIA that four hospital buildings are full of rot and mould. Health Minister David Clark says he knew about only one, the Scott

      • March 23 – Former Health Minister Jonathan Coleman says he was not briefed about extent of problems at Middlemore. Clark says he expects DHB to outline plan for managing the issues. Email from Gloria Johnson to board members say documents handed to Clark and his adviser “spells out succinctly the scale and nature of the facilities issues”

      • March 27 – DHB says it did not do repairs because Coleman wanted it to stay in surplus

      • March 28 – DHB confirms report of sewage leaks in Scott Building

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12036681

  10. Ed 10
    24 April 2018 at 5:23 pm

    For those of you who, like me, want to hear an alternative narrative to that presented by the western corporate media, here is George Galloway’s most recent radio show.

    It is worth listening alone for the interview with Peter Hitchens, which starts right at the start of the show ( after 30 seconds.)

    And if you don’t want to hear what independent journalists like Hitchens say, scroll by.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuyYlCq7Oro

  12. OnceWasTim 12
    24 April 2018 at 5:33 pm

    @ Anne, Tracey, Spikyboy and Patricia Bremner
    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-23-04-2018/#comment-1477869
    (Yesterday’s Open Mike)

    I hear on tonight’s Checkpoint, RNZ are following up on the issue.
    Once again though, ‘officials’ appear to have given a bullshit response in defense of their continued use of T&C – I’d thought the government had made their position pretty bloody clear.

    My position is that there is evidence of a degree of ‘pushback’ by senior public servants against the coalition government’s policies.
    I’m waiting a bit longer to see what happens.
    Naturally enough, some senior public servants are eagre to preserve the status quo = going completely against the coalition governments intentions to make change – as they’re entitled to do.
    Hopefully the SSC is also watching very closely.
    As far as I know, Iain Lees-Galloway, Carmel Sepuloni and couple of others have made it pretty bloody clear what their expectations of Ministry ‘officials’ are. Some of the officials appear to be a bit slow in getting the message.

    If there’s a way of contacting you in confidence @ Tracy, I’ll definitely do so.

    • OnceWasTim 12.1
      24 April 2018 at 5:53 pm

      “Naturally enough, some senior public servants are eagre to preserve the status quo = going completely against the coalition governments intentions to make change – as they’re entitled to do.”
      Of course I mean the government is entitled to make change – they have the mandate. Senior PS ‘officials’ (supposedly being as ‘impartial’ as @ Wayne has suggested), are obliged to implement the change

  13. Morrissey 13
    24 April 2018 at 5:47 pm

    Israel shoots to kill as the Gaza ghetto resists its destruction

    Yet to hear a statement from Boris Johnson or Theresa May, those great moralists, about this….

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/04/23/israel-shoots-to-kill-as-the-the-gaza-ghetto-resists-its-destruction/

  14. Morrissey 14
    24 April 2018 at 5:55 pm

    PETITION:
    Remove Ian Smith from Sky Rugby commentary team.

    Ian Smith should be removed from the commentary box because he has no idea what he’s talking about. I can’t handle his stupidity anymore. There must be thousands of people more qualified to commentate test rugby than him.

  15. Penny Bright 15
    24 April 2018 at 7:46 pm

    I have been granted the interim injunction, and stopped the sale of my home.

    In the Minute of Woodhouse J

    “[6] In consequence, there are the following orders:

    (a) Pending further order of the Court, the respondent shall take no steps, or no further steps, to effect sale of the applicant’s property at 86A School Road, Kingsland.

    …”

    Penny Bright

    • Cinny 15.1
      24 April 2018 at 7:51 pm

      Really pleased for you Penny, big hugs.

    • Sacha 15.2
      24 April 2018 at 7:53 pm

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/355857/penny-bright-given-brief-reprieve-over-forced-home-sale

      “A High Court judge has granted a short term interim injuction, giving Ms Bright three more days to prepare her case seeking a halt to the sale.”

    • savenz 15.3
      24 April 2018 at 9:30 pm

      Good news Penny.

      Although I was thinking if worse comes to worse a little tent outside Auckland council or Mr Town’s residence, might make them think twice about selling rate payers houses in the future. So pleased it does not come to that.

      We have enough homeless and disempowered people, already.

      Oh, just read Sacha’s post, 3 days is not long, hoping for a longer term outcome for you to keep your house. Good luck!

      • Penny Bright 15.3.1
        25 April 2018 at 1:56 am

        Sacha should focus on what the JUDGE said – not what Radio NZ said?

        • Sacha 15.3.1.1
          25 April 2018 at 6:15 am

          Happy to read a link to the full judgement. I’ve provided one for RNZ’s reading of it.

        • veutoviper 15.3.1.2
          25 April 2018 at 6:29 am

          Did the judge not indicate any timescale for the interim injunction,Penny?

          Really pleased for you, by the way.

    • Tamati Tautuhi 15.4
      25 April 2018 at 6:59 am

      When are Auckland Council going to disclose their spending details, the books should be open to all ratepayers as we are stakeholders in Auckland Council ?

      • savenz 15.4.1
        25 April 2018 at 8:43 am

        Yep, I think the entire budget each year including payments to all the contractors/third parties should be made public each year. I’m sure that will throw up some interesting information.

        Rates used to be quite a small bill for home owners. Now it’s more likely to be in your top 4 most expensive bills you have to pay each month.

        I hope that the new government looks into whether it is better to abandon the COO structures. We have Auckland Transport that seems to be a basket case which take up 53% from rates of their $1.345 billion dollar annual budget. Not only does it not work very well, we now have a to pay fuel tax on top of that. What’s next, poll tax to prop them up? Ports of Auckland are terrible employers with employment rulings against them and apparently ok to steal the harbour. Wastewater is still not separated, but wait, more money is the problem, not their lack of planning between resource consenting and wastewater.

        If we can see where all the money goes in fine detail, it can shed some light on what’s going wrong, such as why the dig up the roads and footpaths continually, and is it a good idea to speculate on Westgate malls? How do people get around with zero public transport in parts of the supercity? Is charging $10 for a HOP card and the ridiculous way to get a child HOP a good idea? Why is it taking over $200,000 in legal fees to defend CEO Steven Town’s alleged defamation of Penny Bright? Is it price gouging from the lawyers?

        No doubt nobody in power would be keen for full transparency, but then if there is full transparency, won’t that shut the critics up if it’s all above board as well as make people trust Labour more.

        There are too many scandals with public figures on the trough.

        I don’t agree with Phil Goff’s ideology, but I do think he is an honest man in terms of money and maybe he could lead the councillors to actually properly open up the books in minute detail so that the stakeholders aka rate payers have full access. We all know the CEO and executives will not be for it.

        This would also keep out the more dishonest contractors and suppliers from dealing with council, and that would be a good thing.

        • KJT 15.4.1.1
          25 April 2018 at 10:48 am

          Any public contracts and services should be totally transparent at all times. Not just three yearly.
          Firms undertaking contracts for public entities, us, have no right to cower behind “commercial sensitivity”, to hide from those paying the bills.

        • KJT 15.4.1.2
          25 April 2018 at 10:50 am

          Why are rate payers paying Town’s court costs?

  16. eco maori 16
    25 April 2018 at 8:39 am

    Good morning people the moko is taking her first steps and the sun is shining .
    The trolls can not take a chink out of Jacinda so the target Clarke well they are wasting there time I can see he is a good man he could be like that Other famous Clarke and they won’t be able to take a chink out of him.
    Lets get this strait I treat all people with respect if they treat me the same and just because one person makes a statement about me doesn’t mean it is true I respect the police I don’t respect these sandflies that are exclusive brethren who think they have the right to cast there judgement on US Maori cultured tangata .They use there money and influence to distort the course of justice there members avoid jail and they justify this by implying that the members whom have had the course justice distorted for there mistakes are shunned from there church what a load of———being ostracized is nothing compeared to going to jail for one they have no record of jail time they are not locked in jail caged like an animal . It is accepted right in frount of OUR eyes that this behavior is OK for the few WTF this makes a mockery of the whole system there is more bad things that these people get up to Eco Maori will reveal this in good time .
    So I don’t hate all police .Every move the sandflies make reveals that my hunches are right Ana to kai Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 16.1
      25 April 2018 at 1:12 pm

      I can not pronounce Te reo properly my self my wife laughs at my attemts I can pronounce words that I used when I was young but with my spelling problem my attempts a pronouncing Te reo are not very good .So Eco Maori says lay off the coach if he knows he mite pronounce the name wrong well so be it let him use what he wants to get what he means across to the audience Ana to kai ka kite ano.

      • eco maori 16.1.1
        25 April 2018 at 6:45 pm

        Newshub well you already know my view on ANZAC it mite not be the popular view but I care about te tangata and Ngati Porou both had big losses in World War 1 and 2 the 1 percent start War while the Tommy fight and die in these wars and in New Zealand the Tommy were mostly Maori enough said.
        Amazon is the future of retail everyone better change or get left in its wake they cut out the middle man this is going to happen in all industrys .
        Come on you don’t trip up the mokopunas .
        It will be a good game of League tonight .
        Ka kite ano P.S you can not see me through the camera lol

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