Open mike 24/07/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, July 24th, 2019 - 38 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

38 comments on “Open mike 24/07/2019”

  1. Andre 1

    What big wind energy really looks like, for scale:

    https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/23/ge-renewable-energy-unveils-12-megawatt-haliade-x-offshore-wind-nacelle/

    Each blade is 107m long. A380 total wingspan is 80m, 747s vary from 60 to 68m.

    Stick these babies in the Manukau harbour, and from Titirangi Village you'd be looking at the hub pretty much on the level, and from the top of Mt Atkinson you'd still be looking quite a way up to the top of the blade sweep.

    • Molly 1.1

      Good article and comments.

      I'm unsure if your comment means you are onboard with this as a generation method.  For me, there is a beauty in recognising what some would perceive as 'visual pollution' is the reality of the total impact it has on the environment in terms of operation.

      • Andre 1.1.1

        I'm totally onboard with wind energy. I'd be totally happy with having a bunch of them in the Manukau in front of my house (won't happen until they solve the problem of the rotating blades interfering with some aircraft instruments).

        I wish we were building the actual turbines here in NZ. We've got a bunch of people with most of the skill base needed to build the blades and there's enough windfarms consented that would keep a fairly decent size factory busy. Sadly there's only been one serious attempt at building them here. That was Windflow Technology. They never took off for a bunch of reasons, some engineering, some management, some market reasons.

        Another little factoid of interest to some, when it's operating at capacity, one of those 12MW turbines would power around 15,000 NZ homes. It would probably get around 60% capacity factor here in NZ, so realistically as a year-round average it would cover the power needs of around 9000 NZ homes.

        • Molly 1.1.1.1

          In the comments someone calculates that the output is calculated at 64% for that 16,000 figure, so it might be even better than the 9,000 estimate you have.

          Several years ago, Genesis proposed,and was initially granted a resource consent for – an offshore wind farm here in Franklin.  Was really disappointed – but not surprised – when the Awhitu wind farm project was put aside.

          There were a lot of emotive and dismissive articles in the local news, and this area is particularly conservative.  The discussion was hijacked almost from the beginning.  This area is lacking environmental awareness or forward thinking.  I'm always in admiration of those here, who continue despite pushback from local noteworthies and the authorities.

          • Andre 1.1.1.1.1

            In New Zealand we use quite a lot more electricity per capita than the Netherlands does. Dunno if that's because we do a lot more residential heating because of crap building standards, or the Dutch use more gas, or we've got more electricity-intensive industry that gets rolled into the figures I see, or something else.

            Yeah I remember those stories about the fears that the flickering shadows from the Awhitu proposal would frighten the horses. These days alleged illnesses from wind turbines are frequently cited as examples of the nocebo effect. That seem to magically go away as soon as there's some financial benefit to those affected.

            Chances are pretty good something like the Awhitu proposal will eventually get built. Electricity demand was flat or even declining slightly when it was a big issue. But when the demand comes back, Awhitu is such a good site it's going to be worthwhile for a generator to go through the pain of dealing with the local reactionaries. That there's now a lot more history and evidence to counter the scare stories should help.

            • McFlock 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Similar NIMBYism killed plans for three turbines on the outskirts of Dunedin a few years ago.

        • Andrew 1.1.1.2

          Agreed but the main reason was that the CEO of windflow was almighty and would not change the design and he took a fat salary each month. I was related to one of the engineers their and she was so frustrated as at first the design was great but that was 10 years ago and he refused to change. 

  2. johnm 2

    Crash Course in NEOLIBERALISM

    Today we're discussing the history and core tenets of neoliberalism. I run through the origins of the theory, its implementation in the 1970's-80's, the role of the state, financialization, and just the overall effect neoliberalism has had on society.

  3. mauī 3

    Catherine Delahunty,

    “Prime Minister, this event at Ihumātao is your moment to step up to all your rhetoric at Waitangi”

    https://twitter.com/greencatherine/status/1153525809707008000

  4. esoteric pineapples 4

    The Coming Economic Crash — And How to Stop It –  Elizabeth Warren

    "Household debt. A generation of stagnant wages and rising costs for basics like housing, child care, and education have forced American families to take on more debt than ever before. The student debt load has “more than doubled since the financial crisis.” American credit card debt matches its 2008 peak. Auto loan debt is the highest it has ever been since we started tracking it nearly 20 years ago, and a record 7 million Americans are behind on their auto loans — many of which have similar abusive characteristics as pre-crash subprime mortgages. 71 million American adults — more than 30% of the adults in the country — already have debts in collection. Families may be able to afford these debt payments now, but an increase in interest rates or a slowdown in income could plunge families over a cliff.

    Corporate debt. Corporations are also deeply in debt. Leveraged lending — lending to companies that are already seriously in debt — has jumped by40% since Trump took office, spreading “systemic risk” throughout our financial system. These high-risk loans now make up a quarter of all American business loans, and they look a lot like the pre-2008 subprime mortgages: poorly-underwritten loans with minimal protections that are then packaged and sold to investors. I’ve warned regulators about my concerns — which experts share — but their tepid response shows they haven’t learned the lessons of the last crisis.

    Manufacturing recession. Despite Trump’s promises of a manufacturing “renaissance,” the country is now in a manufacturing recession. The Federal Reserve just reported that the manufacturing sector had a second straight quarter of decline, falling below Wall Street’s expectations. And for the first time ever, the average hourly wage for manufacturing workers has dropped below the national average.

    The administration may breach the debt ceiling in September, leading to economic turmoil that top economists say would be “more catastrophic” than the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008. Trump’s trade war with China threatens American manufacturing and has already hurt American companies that investors think of as “industry bellwethers,” while feedingan all-time economic slowdown in China that could have dramatic ripple effects on the American economy. And Trump is goading the U.K. toward a no-deal Brexit, which even his own administration acknowledges would have “immediate and significant spillover effects” to our economy.

    The financial markets agree that there is a serious risk of downturn in the near future. The U.S. Treasury yield curve — a barometer for market confidence — normally slopes upwards because investors demand higher yields for bonds with longer maturities. But this March, it inverted for the first time since 2007, signaling that investors are so worried that things are going to get worse that they’d rather lock in lower rates for the future today than risk long-term rates going even lower. The curve has inverted before each and every recession in the past half century — with only one false signal.

    And experts agree. In a recent survey of nearly 300 business economists, three-quarters expect a recession by the end of 2021 — with more than halfthinking it’ll come by the end of 2020.

    https://medium.com/@teamwarren/the-coming-economic-crash-and-how-to-stop-it-355703da148b

  5. Molly 5

    I haven't noticed this being discussed on TS before, but if this is the case – that we are buying $9 million worth of weapons from companies servicing the IDF – should we?

    Not that I am in favour of excessive military spending – but are we in a place where we can only source weaponry from those who operate such dehumanising policies and actions, as the IDF do?

    I would hate to think that we are in any way supporting a regime that has systematically broken international law and violated human rights as a normal code of conduct.  By making this purchase, are we allowing a further $9 million to be spent on continuation of this behaviour?

    I understand that we are dealing with a private company, but one that has developed technology that is tested and used on the Palestinian population. And supply chain transparency and accountability is a debateable issue, as regards responsibility. But surely, we are better than this.

    • Sam 5.1

      Well then let's not downplay our own assassination programmes. The government has assassinated 20 odd woman and children in Afghanistan. Those are the ones we know of, and through 5i'z we've been painting targets for Obamas drone policy since 2009. Over 90% of all casualties are civilians, that's a lot of murder. I say that because state violence is very real, Isreal isn't the only country that does it, every country does it. So society is hugely inconsistent on what violence it deems moral or immoral. For sure there are people in New Zealand that show solidarity with Palastinians and West Papuans it's just they don't occupy any meaningful positions in the economy that could actually make a difference. 

      • Molly 5.1.1

        Yes, not going to do that.   I have family and friends in the armed forces, and know the the changes brought by the civilisation project, and influx of UK officers has made the situation for them worse.

        Our Defence Force, used to do a lot of good work in reconstruction and community aid, which doesn't seem to be as common nowadays.  However, we seem to have increased exercises with our 5 eyes comrades.

        It is a public responsibility to keep pressure on our politicians not to send our troops where they are not protecting human rights, of any citizen – not just NZers.

        In this particular case, I would not like NZ to contribute to further harm in Palestine by providing the funds in this admittedly horizontal way.

        • Sam 5.1.1.1

          Yeah, but that's not what the NZDF is for. To explain properly what NZDF is for would do against Facebooks community standards. We are given these pretty messages of hamnatarian relief missions because commercial interests can not support or sustain the primary mission of NZDF. Y'know what ism trying to say, I hope. In other words is there such thing as a tame tiger? No, the tiger just acts on its own instincts. NZDF isn't meant to be moral or immoral. I can't quite articulate what I'm trying to say so to be more precise, NZDF requires certain tools at certain prices and they have to be able to go outside of normal moral instincts to get them because New Zealand can not produce it ourselves.

  6. marty mars 6

    Kia kaha to all holding the line at Ihu Mātao!

  7. greywarshark 7

    The Green Party leaves a dusty footprint on their clean record.   They made a silly mistake in public – how can smart people be caught with their trousers down like that?    Is the answer – they aren't smart people!

    However on reading more I find that both Labour and National have done it. So then who sets the standard at an appropriate level and can take the high ground??

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/green-party-pull-ad-mocking-simon-bridges-accent-after-heavy-criticism-online-lowered-tone-debate

    A Green Party video that mocked National leader Simon Bridges' accent has been pulled after drawing heavy criticism online.

    The ad was pulled just two hours after being uploaded to Twitter this afternoon. …

    Both Labour and National have recently released attack ads of their own.

    The Prime Minister was asked about Labour Party advertisements, one which showed Mr Bridges' interview on RNZ on the interim climate change report. 

    "Simon Bridges has talked a big game on climate change, but when push comes to shove, he won't back the action that's needed," Labour wrote on Facebook.

    It later released a statement titled, "You can't trust National on the environment". 

    • solkta 7.1

      mocked National leader Simon Bridges' accent

      This should read "appears to mock" as an intent to mock his accent has not been established. Shaw said that this was not his intention and concern about this was why he pulled the ad. The thing here is that you can't really do his accent without appearing to mock it. He sounds like he is mocking himself when he talks. 

      • marty mars 7.1.1

        shaw's not the person to be doing mocking of others

        • greywarshark 7.1.1.1

          Sounds a bit of a mock-up and muck-up all in together.   However that is the sort of thing that a comedian might aim for, but not for the Greens to try.  

          I think it went out on Twitter.   The Greens can't afford to be making jokes or satirising anybody; gaze into the abyss and find it looking back at you stuff.  Greens have serious things to do – they should forbid any of their people to have anything to do with Twitter, either for the Party or for their personal personas.    It is just too dangerous for fired up people with agendas they feel strongly about.   Twitter is a loaded gun;  it's too easy to shoot yourself in the foot.

    • Gabby 7.2

      To claim they were ridiculing the way Slick speaks, you'd have to agree that he sounds ridiculous greysie. If you don't think he sounds ridiculous, then the imitation wouldn't would it.

      • Psycho Milt 7.2.1

        I've pondered that myself – if a fairly good imitation of his voice can be called "mocking" him, what does that say about the way he speaks?

        • greywarshark 7.2.1.1

          Maybe it was the Greens firing rubber bullets at Soimon but they can still damage.    We who vote Green don't want them shooting themselves in the foot with anything.

  8. adam 8

    Glad people holding politicians to account 



  9. ianmac 9

    A snippet on Q+A on Monday showed a "small Business owner" saying she had no confidence because of the changes to Government rules for business operations. 

    It occurred to me that it begs a question. "What are theses changes of rules which cause the loss of confidence?" Anyone know?

    • Rapunzel 9.1

      It begs another question in my mind "what is a 'small' business", it can be anyone from someone walking poodles to a one man band with a specific service that turns over a couple of hundred thousand a year to eeverything in between. Some are GST registered and some quite legally are not, some even take cash for jobs – hairdressers at home. Many smaller and varied entities claim certain "costs" but are eligilble, I am pretty sure, for a tax "top-up" as a "wokring family.

      A lot of these so-called small businesses for various reasons inclding the way they structure staff and "costs" are on the receiving end from IRD and other tax payers and have nothing to complain about but they will.

      • Rapunzel 9.1.1

        Further to that where does that particular "small" business woman fit with this "big" business idea, I've always seen "business" as a means to an ends and can see exactly, having used the model of ten hours a day four days a week or it's myriad of apllications, why the four day week or work from home is fianlly getting traction.

        In regard for children's welfare and simple effect of school holidays reducing traffic volumes the "future of work" must be considered and planned for now, just like this.

        Sleepyhead's $1 billion dream venture – staff homes

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12252196

        • greywarshark 9.1.1.1

          Q & A where – tv?   I don't watch it.   But I ask what where why and how etc.   What does the b.o. do?   How small – probably fits micro, one person and not even a partnership?   Define reporter please.   Exactly what changes?   It is so vague that it doesn't warrant reporting – I think it is just another beat-up or smear on Labour.    LoS.

          • Rapunzel 9.1.1.1.1

            On TV, it would have been Monday night and while I did not see it I can imagine – the beat-ups continue often leading to a waste of time and money.

            I am getting the sense that NZers in the main are over it, most have, or have a lot to do with, young NZers heading towards the "workforce". Personally I would push and push for them to look towards "trades" unless they have a particular love of something that really needs "higher training". All most people want is an occupation that sustains them and their families and some cash on the top to follow pursuits they enjoy. Times to say goodbye to the useless middlemen and timewasters.

        • joe90 9.1.1.2

          Sleepyhead's $1 billion dream venture – staff homes

          Obligatory.

          You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
          Another day older and deeper in debt
          Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
          I owe my soul to the company store

          • Rapunzel 9.1.1.2.1

            Yeah maybe but it may well be, particualrly for the coming times, a good idea whose time has come again – historically this was common and still is in farming sectors and similar.

            Brother Ltd relocated to Tauranga and I understand brought many staff with them. Sure they sorted out their own housing but that was in a market with prices increasing at the time so in some ways they were and are – given that Tauranga doesn't have a lot of industry just building more houses – just as tied to their employment as a lot of people.

            I wonder if the staff view it as negative or positive?

  10. Poission 10

    Solving Aucklands housing and space constraints, relocation.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/business/sleepyheads-1b-dream-mega-sites-staff-home-plan

  11. Pete 11

    Have more poll results come out this morning? Simon Bridges in the House today is performing as if that is the case.

    • Rapunzel 11.1

      Which version is it "useless" or "shouty"? Shouty is how people towards the "right" (I say "towards" as I am often labelled a "lefty" for some unknown reason) have been since the election for everyday NZers I think it is wearing thin now.

      • Gabby 11.1.1

        Browneye made a bit of an arse of himself. He may have hearing impairment of course, in which case you'd think he'd  be a bit less trenchant.

        • Rapunzel 11.1.1.1

          Might watch the replay later, totally forgot they were "back in the house" as far as I'm concerned nagative (oh look my 'typo' is a new word – nagative I like it) people deserve to squirm, particularly if they were part of or lead to a problem and have no inventive, practical options that they will hold themselves to.

          I think a lot of the online "nagativity" has had its day and it on the way out except for a few hardliners.

  12. greywarshark 12

    Flights cancelled due to fog again.   International ones have not been.  This happened yesterday as well.

    The fog appears to be coming a regular problem.    And we need to have use of our airlines around NZ while they are still running.    We have needs to meet and further there are international visitors who have to reach their exit terminal.

    I hope Local Government is sharing anecdotes and expertise about this.    Perhaps there can be extra equipment and protocols that will allow aircraft to fly safely through the fog.  

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/395095/flights-cancelled-delayed-due-to-fog-in-auckland

  13. greywarshark 13

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/395134/fundraising-drive-launched-for-gloriavale-leavers

    Gloriavale situations will likely occur more as times get really tough.   This is just one variety – father being asked to leave and women stay with children is a new one on me.    If women go they may have 10 children, and be very uncertain of what to do 'outside'.    

    We need some instruction on philosophy in schools, thinking about what our culture is built on etc.   Religion should not be taught, but be talked about – why do we have it etc.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Swiss tax agreement tightens net
    Opportunities to dodge tax are shrinking with the completion of a new tax agreement with Switzerland, Revenue Minister Stuart Nash announced today. Mr Nash and the Swiss Ambassador David Vogelsanger have today signed documents to update the double tax agreement (DTA). The previous DTA was signed in 1980. “Double tax ...
    2 weeks ago