Open mike 24/09/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, September 24th, 2019 - 80 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

80 comments on “Open mike 24/09/2019 ”

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  1. Jimmy 1
    24 September 2019 at 9:44 am

    It will be interesting to see how this is handled by the CC council. Can't imagine the publicity is going to do Deon Swiggs chances of re-election much good.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116008780/christchurch-councillor-accused-of-inappropriate-texts-should-come-forward-says-deputy-mayor

    • Rosemary McDonald 1.1
      24 September 2019 at 10:29 am

      Oh dear. More accusations of inappropriate sexual behaviour aimed at a Labour Party member. Is this an indication that National are running scared and feel forced to plumb the depths for dirt…or does the Labour Party attract some with poor sexual manners. To be euphemistic.

      Bad look.

      • Pingau 1.1.1
        24 September 2019 at 10:49 am

        He is an independent candidate although he used to be a labour party member. Of the other 2 candidates in the central ward, one is People's Choice – Labour and the other is Independent Citizens (actually National but not upfront about it).

        He has been a good councillor and probably more left than right would be my impression. The mud will be thrown at labour no doubt because of Dalziel. I hope there will be some clarification about how this has been dealt with by council soon.

        Interesting timing though for the release of this information.

      • weka 1.1.2
        24 September 2019 at 11:06 am

        National are arseholes who've figured out their next Dirty Politics play.

        Labour like the rest of society aren't particularly good at dealing with rape culture. So even when shit is thrown at them that they don't deserve they're not on solid footing to deal with it.

        • Rob 1.1.2.1
          24 September 2019 at 6:59 pm

          Weka, you come across more angry that he has been caught and outed rather than being alarmed at what he has been doing . It reads like his behaviour is normal to you and that you are pissed that he is in trouble for it.

          I am sure that I will get banned as a result of this, but I don't care who has politicised the issue in your book because predators like this need to be outed.

          • weka 1.1.2.1.1
            24 September 2019 at 7:37 pm

            Don't know how you got that from my comment, which was about National and Labour not Swiggs. It was in response to Rosemary's comment which was likewise about National and Labour, and I had also read Pingau's comment that Swiggs isn't Labour. I haven't read the article, and don't know anything about the case.

            Context is everything. I find it better to ask people when their comment doesn't makes sense. Either you know my position on rape culture, in which case your comment is way off, or you don't and you decided to have a go instead of clarifying. /shrug.

        • patricia bremner 1.1.2.2
          24 September 2019 at 11:58 pm

          The National Party and friends called Jacinda's partner all sorts. Their accusations became so strident the Police had to declare there was "no issue they were investigating." That debacle sowed a seed IMO.

      • Dukeofurl 1.1.3
        24 September 2019 at 11:49 am

        Heres the 2016 CC election results

        Central Ward Councillor – Electing 1 Councillor

        Deon SWIGGS Independent – Let’s Get It Done ,1400

        Vicki TAHAU-PATON The People’s Choice – Labour, 1051

        Dora Roimata LANGSBURY Independent, 643

        Lindon (Boycey) BOYCE, 479

        So Swiggs was running against the Labour based Peoples Choice group

    • phillip ure 2.1
      24 September 2019 at 12:17 pm

      (there is some interesting discussion on this topic in this thread..)

      https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/09/22/lets-be-brutally-honest-those-vegan-protestors-are-right-and-why-confrontational-protests-are-the-future/

      oh..!..and chris trotter pops up – showing what a reactionary dickwad he is on this..he gets bounced in a suitable manner…

      • Incognito 2.1.1
        24 September 2019 at 12:36 pm

        Lovely ad lib ad hom there Phil, I have to give you credit for that one.

        • phillip ure 2.1.1.1
          24 September 2019 at 2:14 pm

          trotter usually tries to maintain an air of bemused superiority –

          but i have seen that crack – as with his jowls in a state of high vibration..

          his face an ever-deepening shade of purple..

          he said/spat out – with undoubted vehemence/sincerity:

          'i hate vegetarians..!'..

          (which may in itself – garner him a new fan – in the form of ‘the allen’..

          they could maybe form an anti-vegan coven…?..

          ..chants..?..incantations..?..)

          • The Al1en 2.1.1.1.1
            24 September 2019 at 2:22 pm

            Address the points, Philip, address the points. It's not about me, remember? It's about the bullshit Bradbury article, remember?

            Didn't take long for you to revert to type since you've been back, like how you use to make an early post and then spend all day attacking and sniding out against those who disagree with it.

            Like evolution, you appear in need of a bit of luck and ongoing incremental change.

            • marty mars 2.1.1.1.1.1
              24 September 2019 at 2:44 pm

              why are you following him around trying to get a rise from him – what''s up with that?

              • The Al1en …
                24 September 2019 at 2:51 pm

                Post 2.1.2 was my first and directly addressed the false premise proposed by the article Philip is peddling today.

                Answering and responding to the content of follow ups is how debate works.

                Why not just skip over if you've got nothing to add?

                • marty mars …
                  24 September 2019 at 2:56 pm

                  I think you're peeved cos he showed you up the other day lol – just funny cos you make a good straight man to his bent one.

          • Incognito 2.1.1.1.2
            24 September 2019 at 5:19 pm

            The reason why you don’t add much to the debate, IMO, is that you even when you don’t frame it from the outset you usually end up framing it as us vs. them. Once the exchange has become sufficiently polarized, it quickly turns into a willy-waving tit-for-tat contest with snide remarks and worse/worsening ad homs. You seem to think that you’re addressing the point(s) by attacking your adversary. Unfortunately, we’re all guilty of this but some more than others and on a more regular basis that it becomes an issue here on this site. You could use the following yard stick: does your reply still stand and make sense if it were in reply to a comment written by somebody else than the respective commenter you’re taking aim at? In other words, if the commenter(s) were to be completely anonymous, would it change your reply comment, yes or no?

            • phillip ure 2.1.1.1.2.1
              24 September 2019 at 6:30 pm

              the ratio of me pulling allens' leg vs. him continually insulting me – is kinda stark..(and it was an attempt at humour – guess it flopped..)

              has me wondering why are you saying this to me…

              because as one who is presenting ideas challenging to many – i take particular care to answer anything i am asked in as clear a manner as possible..

              and i don't engage in 'dick-waving' exercises..as you seem to claim..can you show me any examples of those..?

              and many here feel free to heap whatever abuse they like on me..

              with nary a word from you..eh..?

              (not that i expect/want that..)

              and suddenly you are on my case..again..?

              are you trying to wind something up..?

              'cos i ain't biting..eh..?

              save to note..really..?

              'you usually end up framing it as us vs. them'

              cd u plse translate that for me..?…who is 'us'..who is 'them'..

              'You seem to think that you’re addressing the point(s) by attacking your adversary. '..

              no..i take particular care to treat people with civility….and i can disagree with them one minute..and agree with them the next….that's 'cos i am replying to their ideas..not personally attacking them..

              and i'm sorry..i can't make head nor tail of the question you finish with..

              my bad..

              • Gabby …
                24 September 2019 at 6:42 pm

                Ure in a right state Philly.

              • Psycho Milt …
                24 September 2019 at 6:49 pm

                …has me wondering why are you saying this to me…

                That's exactly the problem, Phil. Instead of reading Incognito's clear description of why they're saying that to you and deciding to engage in a bit of self-reflection, you wonder how such injustice could possibly be visited upon a poor innocent like yourself. Very few other people will be wondering.

              • Incognito …
                24 September 2019 at 7:14 pm

                @ 2.1.1.1 you wrote:

                he said/spat out – with undoubted vehemence/sincerity:

                'i hate vegetarians..!'..

                (which may in itself – garner him a new fan – in the form of ‘the allen’..

                they could maybe form an anti-vegan coven…?..

                ..chants..?..incantations..?..)

                That “was an attempt at humour”? In that case, all I can say is that you are not a comedian.

                Flesh-eaters committing untold cruelty to animals vs. you? No?

                I would get no pleasure from winding you up but you do seem to bring it up a lot in your replies to me. No?

                You seem to be sliding back to your old form of commenting here and pointing this out to you is not trying to wind you up nor an ad hom. Maybe you could try to be more reflective than reflexive? No?

                My last question was a thought experiment. Let’s say I change the handle The Al1en into a different random 10-digit number each time, e.g. 8431794786, 5975488010, 1007827841, et cetera, i.e. you would not know the comments came from The Al1en, would you write the exact same replies or not? Yes?

                • The Al1en …
                  24 September 2019 at 7:22 pm

                  To be fair, Philip can't even bring himself to use my login name, which is sort of an act of deliberate disrespect and passive aggressive behaviour.

                  I personally don't find much issue with it, as I can see it for what it is, but it does make for extra work when having to search the site for comments and quotes etc.

                • phillip ure …
                  24 September 2019 at 8:10 pm

                  ' all I can say is that you are not a comedian.'

                  wow..!..harsh..!

                  and a judge of quality in humour…..eh..?

                  heh..!..that is funny in itself..

                  just to give me some context here..were/are you a fan of 'friends'..?

                  of rachels' bob – and..oh!..that ross..!..eh..?

                  and as i am arguing the case against eating animals – with people who are eating animals..i guess there must be an inherent/built-in me vs. them/you..how could it not be that way…?

                  and as i am arguing against neoliberalism – with people who are wedded to that blighted ideology – once more – built in me vs. them..once again – how can it not be like that..and what's more the question – what is the/any problem with that..?

                  and i still don't get yr 'thought experiment'..my eyes/mind glazes over when i attempt to read it..

                  (tho' – in my defence – i am quite toasted..maybe it will make more sense in the clarity of the morning)

                  • phillip ure …
                    24 September 2019 at 8:22 pm

                    at this very moment i am smoking a joint rolled from a bud so solid you could hammer in nails with it..

                    i wish i cd share it with you all..)

                  • Incognito …
                    24 September 2019 at 10:22 pm

                    I apologise, Phil, for being a tad harsh. Some of your comments are actually very funny.

                    Nah, I’m no judge as such of humour but some things appeal to my sense of humour and some don’t. Admittedly, many people don’t know how to take it.

                    I can’t stand Friends and even that ‘catchy’ tune makes me cringe.

                    You’re not alone in the us vs. them attitude, sadly, and it shows in discourse, sadly. Binary thinking trumps everything nowadays. It kills any chance of a mutually agreeable solution because by definition that is impossible. And it shows.

                    Forget the thought experiment; 10-digit random numbers was naff, I realise.

                    Sweet dreams, Phil.

              • marty mars …
                24 September 2019 at 7:26 pm

                phil you know how the game works here – I hope you continue to post here as I find your comments less irritating than many, mainly because you are coming from a good place imo

                • phillip ure …
                  24 September 2019 at 8:17 pm

                  @ mm..chrs 4 yr words..

                  but no..i don't 'know how the game is played here'..

                  it all seems somewhat random/subjective/inconsistant..

                  i am just here to argue ideas/for the animals/poor etc..

                  i don't personalise any of it..i think..

                  i don't 'dislike/hate' anyone here..

                  it is a contest of ideas to/for me..

                  that's it..

                  • marty mars …
                    24 September 2019 at 8:45 pm

                    it works here that the moderators moderate – their site, their rules – we fit in with them not the other way around

                    anyway that's my input to try and make the place a bit better – all the best

                    • Incognito …
                      24 September 2019 at 11:00 pm

                      Interesting comment there, Marty, but a little inaccurate IMO.

                      1. Moderators don’t own the site nor do they set the rules. The site is owned by a Trust (https://thestandard.org.nz/about/#who_are_you) and the rules are in the Site’s Policy (https://thestandard.org.nz/policy/).
                      2. Moderators interpret the rules to their best ability to ensure and encourage on-line behaviour that stimulates healthy debate.
                      3. The last time Phil got a Moderation note was on 13 Sep because he’d lost part of his cookies.
                      4. The last time Phil got actually moderated (but not banned) was on 18 Aug by me and he’s posted almost 400 comments since without moderator ‘interference’.
                      5. Moderating is about the last thing moderators want to be doing here, which is why they can get tetchy if they have to deal with too much of it.
                      6. If moderators screw up badly they can lose some or all of their rights here too; this has happened more than once.

                      HTH

                    • marty mars …
                      25 September 2019 at 7:35 am

                      my comment was to phil as commenters sometimes do – we help each other or try to as I stated in my comment – but fantastic to see you taking the time to create another learning experience for the newbies

                    • Incognito []
                      25 September 2019 at 7:43 am

                      🙂

      • The Al1en 2.1.2
        24 September 2019 at 12:47 pm

        As high density dairy and beef production is only fourth on the list of worst climate change contributors behind energy production, transport and construction, it's somewhat hypocritical for any veggo warrior to single out meat eaters when they drive, turn on their computers, and live in concrete structures and the like.

        It is, as always with them, about animals. Climate change is just a bandwagon that's been jumped on to serve their weird anti animal as food perspective. It doesn't follow that there aren't changes needed across all contributing sectors, there are, and working towards a local market only supply will greatly reduce dairy and beef pollutants in NZ.

        • phillip ure 2.1.2.1
          24 September 2019 at 2:22 pm

          'It is, as always with them, about animals.'

          (for me anyway) – you got it in one…

          • The Al1en 2.1.2.1.1
            24 September 2019 at 2:28 pm

            Which is why you are blind to animal husbandry continuing to exist when dealing to climate change.

            One trick pony with blinkers on.

            • phillip ure 2.1.2.1.1.1
              24 September 2019 at 2:41 pm

              as with yr new mate -trotter – you clearly don't get it..yet..

              how the ever-increasing pressures are going to so change the/this world you inhabit..

              climate-change + plant-based 'meats' = bye-bye animal-slavery…

              i don't need to make all those arguments again..but all those forces add up to an upcoming seachange in attitudes to the animal-extraction industries – and the eating of animals/animal-flesh..

              you remind me of those old-school ciggy-smokers – standing in public bar – puffing away – and declaring they'll never stop you enjoying a smoke – while your having a beer…!

              they''ll drag your ciggy from yer dead/cold hands..

              eh..?

              heh..!

              • The Al1en …
                24 September 2019 at 2:48 pm

                Pointless attack post, Philip. 🙄

                You don't need to make those arguments again because they're easily refutable. As stated already you've disqualified yourself from reasoned conversation about the emission effects of animal farming because of a very one sided view that prohibits any compromise and acceptance it will carry on through and after climate change.

          • marty mars 2.1.2.1.2
            24 September 2019 at 2:33 pm

            yep you have a kind heart phil – onya

        • phillip ure 2.1.2.2
          24 September 2019 at 6:40 pm

          @ allen..

          i wd refer you to the quote from the un in that link above..

          that ag causes 25% of emissions – and the animal factor in ag causes 80% of that 25%

          • The Al1en 2.1.2.2.1
            24 September 2019 at 7:18 pm

            I refer you back to post 2.1.2 and 2.1.2.1.1 and the unnumbered one which follows.

            Three other major drivers of global warming need urgent attention in order to halt and reverse the damages, and cutting exports and focusing on local market meat and dairy will cut down on climate pollutants, so no need to ever stop eating meat and drinking milk, though cutting back a bit will also have benefits.

            So it comes back to whether you can divorce yourself from your religious zeal, and accept people can and will be able to eat meat without being climate crims.

      • OnceWasTim 2.1.3
        24 September 2019 at 2:10 pm

        Yesterday @Phil, you were referencing Mr Trotter. Today you're calling him a dickwad. You need to be careful or you'll have people calling you "fair and balanced" and countless pearl clutchers will be calling for your head.

        We get what we deserve (in the fullness of time) I guess in this democracy (going forward).

        But rest assured…. it's all "best practice". [What! – you mean they're still practicing?]

        I'm afraid so. A good many of then are winging it.

  3. AB 3
    24 September 2019 at 10:06 am

    "Mood of the Boardroom" is out – Fran's hallmark contribution to contemporary idiocy. Time to democratise these centres of unaccountable private power.

  4. greywarshark 4
    24 September 2019 at 10:24 am

    There is an evil side of us that hopefully will never be allowed to rise and swamp our self control. But part of our education should be learning about bullying, how to avoid it, how to not drop into it when there is an opening to do so, why it happens, what emotions drive it, and what background of coarse behaviour sets a person up to fall into the pattern and break one's own moral boundaries. Could we do this type of psychological teaching as part of life skills that everybody does, what are our hidden human impulses?

    I have talked about Transaction Analysis and think it would be perfect for this – being non-religious, non cultish, just giving the basic tools for understanding of mind working and social interaction.

    It would prevent this:

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/399451/murdered-auckland-teen-was-bubbly-happy

    • Brigid 4.1
      24 September 2019 at 3:26 pm

      Being a proponent of Transactional Analysis you would understand the difference between the 'Parent' and the 'Adult' and which is most appropriate for any given social intercourse.

      Right?

  5. greywarshark 5
    24 September 2019 at 10:30 am

    No holiday highway this. Just an essential transport route that has to be redone for resilience in difficult weather and terrain. The Manawatu Gorge route is I hope going to be quickly changed, and a better road made for the future over the next years. As government says, it has had nine years of neglect (while National have been strutting like peacocks – and you know their weird, sharp cry). Good news Labour.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1909/S00198/green-light-for-manawatu-gorge-replacement-highway.htm

    • Dukeofurl 5.1
      24 September 2019 at 11:41 am

      The new route option was canned by National in 2010 as they wanted more money for the gold plated RONS instead. A cheaper choice of repairing the existing gorge route has turned out to massive waste of money

  6. phillip ure 6
    24 September 2019 at 10:33 am

    (and then there is this..)

    https://occupydemocrats.com/2019/09/22/pelosi-pens-open-letter-warning-new-stage-of-investigation-if-whistleblower-coverup-persists/

    (excerpt..)

    'On Sunday afternoon Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) released an unequivocal ultimatum to the Trump Administration to turn over an explosive whistleblower complaint about presidential misconduct or face a “whole new stage of investigation” in an otherwise collegial “Dear Colleague” open letter.

    Speaker Pelosi’s statement arrives less than forty-eight hours after the Wall Street Journal‘s bombshell report linking a July 25th phone call with the President of Ukraine to a complaint which the Trump-appointed Inspector General of the Intelligence Community (IGIC) determined is of “urgent concern” about American national security. An Occupy Democrats source familiar with the Speaker’s thinking says that today’s letter from her is “unprecedented” throughout her two terms leading the House of Representatives and her time in Congress.

    The serious ultimatum is aimed at Acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire, whom the Speaker demanded to comply with his mandatory duty to deliver the widely reported whistleblower complaint against Trump to House Intelligence panel Chairman Adam Schiff (D-CA) by this Thursday when he will appear in front of the committee for a nationally televised public hearing.'

    • Dukeofurl 6.1
      24 September 2019 at 11:52 am

      About time. Trump has walked a Crooked Mile his whole life and continued as President

      • phillip ure 6.1.1
        24 September 2019 at 12:26 pm

        yeah – going way back – you don't get to build skyscrapers in manhattan using undocumented/illegal-alien workers. – unless you are seriously mob-connected..

        'cos the teamsters union have a stranglehold on that construction sector – and the teamsters are the mob…

  7. Cinny 7
    24 September 2019 at 12:51 pm

    Hello Standardista's 🙂

    If you haven't seen this weeks episode of The Listening Post then I highly recommend taking 10min to check out their lead story. It's an excellent episode.

    Climate crisis: How mainstream media are part of the problem

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukKNAhk0XXs

    Full episode – https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/listeningpost/2019/09/covering-climate-media-seize-moment-190921064058274.html

  8. greywarshark 8
    24 September 2019 at 1:12 pm

    The time in the sun for retired Brits is over with Brexit? No no no they say. Costa Lotta was affordable for retirement. And the UK citizens living there say Spain has done more to protect them and their future than the UK. There is the thought of applying for Spanish citizenship.

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaIQ5Dku9_g
    .

    Corbyn's strategy analysed by Channel 4 News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_igLgAISuU
    22 Seot 2019 Brexit policy debate dominates Labour Party conference
    It's getting bitter and personal. The divisions over Brexit between the Leader Jeremy Corbyn and senior members of his shadow cabinet like Emily Thornberry and Tom Watson – have exploded into factional infighting and personal disputes.

    The loss of his policy chief Andrew Fisher was a blow to Mr Corbyn coming a day after he was forced to intervene to prevent Mr Watson being extinquished.

    Tomorrow the labour leadership will face a battle on the floor of the conference as it tries to force a compromise position on Brexit despite the call from many of the membership for a fully remain stance.

    23 September 2019 Corbyn wins crunch Labour conference Brexit vote – BBC News
    At the Labour conference the win was for – stay neutral till after the election and then have a referendum I think. That defeated the Remainers who want to campaign for it now. Taken on a show of hands which looked very folksy.

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iphj_56uOF4

    • Ad 8.1
      24 September 2019 at 4:57 pm

      Sure he did great last time but the electorate has way, way shifted now.

      Brexit has undone Labour even more than it has the Conservatives.

      Corbyn just doesn't have the polls to shift the Conservatives out of power unless he can show a united front with the Liberal Democrats as an alternative government in waiting.

    • Ad 8.2
      24 September 2019 at 4:57 pm

      Sure he did great last time but the electorate has way, way shifted now.

      Brexit has undone Labour even more than it has the Conservatives.

      Corbyn just doesn't have the polls to shift the Conservatives out of power unless he can show a united front with the Liberal Democrats as an alternative government in waiting.

  9. joe90 9
    24 September 2019 at 1:44 pm

    Read of the day; the right's efforts to change bullies into victims.

    Perhaps this is too flippant a dismissal. “Cancel culture,” after all, is a phrase deployed widely outside the world of comedy to describe an all consuming, social media-fueled climate of outrage—a dark cloud hanging over not only comics, but also a wide range of public figures and entities, some of whom where helpfully named by a New York Times piece last year, “Everyone is Canceled”:

    Bill Gates is canceled. Gwen Stefani and Erykah Badu are canceled. Despite his relatively strong play in the World Cup, Cristiano Ronaldo has been canceled. Taylor Swift is canceled and Common is canceled and, Wednesday, Antoni Porowski, a Queer Eye fan favorite was also canceled. Needless to say, Kanye West is canceled, too.

    […]

    The critics of cancel culture are plainly threatened not by a new and uniquely powerful kind of public criticism but by a new set of critics: young progressives, including many minorities and women who, largely through social media, have obtained a seat at the table where matters of justice and etiquette are debated and are banging it loudly to make up for lost time. The fact that jabs against cancel culture are typically jabs leftward, even as conservatives work diligently to cancel academics, activists, and companies they disfavor in both tweets and legislation, underscores this.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/155141/cancel-culture-con-dave-chappelle-shane-gillis

  10. J 10
    24 September 2019 at 2:12 pm

    Can someone help me with a question. There are experts on everything on this site. I've tried the Companies Office but all they say is ask a lawyer. That costs me a lot of money, and the information is not for me.

    All I want to know is 'when a motion is seconded,voted on and passed at an AGM is it legal, if it is not put in the company constitution?'

    Thank you. I hope I am not being too cheeky asking this.

    • Dukeofurl 10.1
      24 September 2019 at 2:30 pm

      Lots of large and medium sized lawyers firms have web sites where they 'might' discuss similar sorts of questions

      I dont know if this has your question but its an example of the method to use
      https://www.heskethhenry.co.nz/insights-opinion/
      You would also want to search for company law, AGM , resolutions and that sort of theing

      • J 10.1.1
        24 September 2019 at 3:14 pm

        Thank you very much Dukeofurl. I'll have a look.

        • In Vino 10.1.1.1
          24 September 2019 at 8:45 pm

          J – What kind of Motion are you talking about? If the motion is a proposed change to the Constitution (with due notice given) then yes, it must be written into the Constitution if passed. But a Motion about an ordinary policy decision has only to be written into the Minutes – not the Constitution.

          • J 10.1.1.1.1
            24 September 2019 at 10:01 pm

            Hi In Vino,

            This would be a motion at an AGM, for example, to change how many directors for a company and how many must be present at an AGM. Or, the company secretary must be a director as well. The only reason for not putting these past changes into the constitution was the legal cost involved to a non profit.

            Is there no legal standing for those AGM decisions voted on, passed and recorded in the Minutes? They have been accepted for many years.

            Now these fully voted on decisions are being considered irrelevant because these decisions don't suit a person's intentions.

            Can persons at an AGM arbitrarily just decide that these past decisions can be simply put aside or must they put a new motion in advance to members to be discussed and voted on at an upcoming AGM?

            Otherwise, any decisions made at an earlier meeting have no meaning I would have thought.
            Also, what would an 'ordinary policy decision' example be?

            Hope this makes sense. And thanks for your interest. J.

            • In Vino 10.1.1.1.1.1
              24 September 2019 at 11:37 pm

              I am no expert, but the motions you describe seem to me to be things that are written in the Constitution, and to change the Constitution, the Constitution itself normally specifies that notice of such a change must be given to all members by a specified time before the General Meeting (either Special or Annual) at which the change will be voted on. If the change is approved at that meeting, the Constitution must be altered accordingly.

              On the other hand, a General Meeting cannot decide on the spot to alter its Constitution without giving all members the required prior notice of that change. If this is what happened in your case, the motion would be invalid, and would not get written into the Constitution.

              If it is more complicated than that, I will be of no help to you.

              • J …
                25 September 2019 at 10:17 am

                Thank you very much for your help In Vino. I appreciate it from you and Dukeofurl.

                Where we've been tripped up I think is that at the time of each decision via an AGM, no attempt was made, over decades, to alter the Constitution because of the legal cost.

                So, it appears the daily guide for members and directors to run the Company is not legal, even though it was done through the correct process, and members agreed that was the future ruling, until a new AGM voted in a new rule.

                I liked the 'daily guide' because we didn't have to try and navigate the Constitution – a veritable minefield of conflicting statements!

                Now it's just scrapped and we apparently have no say. A very good lesson to be learned by me. Once again, thank you.

  11. Peter 11
    24 September 2019 at 2:22 pm

    Simon Bridges seems to think that by repeatedly saying "convicted child sex offender" in a clipped stern manner in questioning in the House that he will sound all serious and on a grave mission.

    To me he comes across as a drongo. When he is in the position of PM after the next election I guess he is to change the rules around Real Commissions to give Ministers control of them and specifics of their work and introduce full vetting of all family members of anyone appointed to any Royal Commission.

    In terms of thoroughness and consistency it seems reasonable given his attitude, full vetting of all family members of anyone appointed to any Government role should be done. Purely in the spirit of 'just in case' of course.

    • ianmac 11.1
      24 September 2019 at 3:23 pm

      One of the submitters to the Commission this morning on radio, aired her disappointment with the issue but was adamant that it should not become political football as the unscrupulous Bridges is doing. Even Bridges best fellow MPs must be disappointed with his creepy obsessions.

  12. The Al1en 12
    24 September 2019 at 3:18 pm

    Police arrest 13 people over multi-million dollar phone scam

    Good job. I've had calls like this, maybe 2 or 3 a month, for years. I usually just hang up when I hear they're from Spark (who isn't my provider anyway), but I did once, by a matter of seconds, save my old lady boss from giving access to her pc.

    People who prey on the vulnerable deserve all that's coming.

  14. Eco maori 14
    26 September 2019 at 8:36 am

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Stealing Eco Maori word.

    The ICC is correct our wildlife of Papatuanuku are suffering from Global Warming Our Pacific Cousin are feeling the brunt of Sealevels rapid riseing.

    Papatuanuku is not going to end in the next few decades what is can happen is we will reach a tipping point of no return with Our Climate warming that cannot be reversed.

    Its great that laws are being put in place to stop the shark insurance sale people selling shoddy policys. They make big promises sell a policy that chews all the funds in fees going straight into their pockets

    Instead of pouring putea into subsidys for regional travel we should fix the Rail lines to Te Tairawhiti to Hawksbay ECT. What the Airline should do is use less planes on their routes invest in low carbon aircraft and shear the seats on the same plane instead of flying massive planes on the same route half full. Ride shearing

    Its excellent to see Maori Music becoming popular in Aotearoa and around the Papatuanuku.

    Aotearoa most successful peace keeping mission in Bougainvillea Paupa New Guinea that is a cool story using aroha and waita is stead of the stick guns and bombs. There Wahine own the whenua Mana Wahine. Soldiers without guns move will be a eye-opening story. I have a m8 that lived and prawn fished there.

    Ka kite Ano

  15. Eco maori 15
    26 September 2019 at 11:37 am

    I say that shearing Our Papatuanuku wealth has to be achieved in order to mitergate Global Warming and Papatuanuku Change. We have the tools to help the poor common tangata of the Papatuanuku. Those tools are renewable energy for all the Tangata who don't have electricity in the year 2019 it's should not be like it is people starving whom have been forced to exploit anything just to survive. In a fair and just Papatuanuku this would not be the REALITY.

    Turning the tables: global poverty conference to be held in a slum

    Inaugural World Poverty Forum – dubbed ‘Davos with the poor’ – to take place in Kenya’s Kibera to ensure voices of poorest are heard

    Global development is supported by

    Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation

    The sun rises over the slum known as Kibera in Nairobi, Kenya

    A global conference on poverty is to take place in Africa’s largest slum in an effort to make sure the poorest get a voice.

    The inaugural World Poverty Forum will be announced on Wednesday in New York at the Decade of Action event taking place during UN general assembly week. It is already being dubbed as “Davos with the poor”

    Social entrepreneur Kennedy Odede, who was raised in the slum of Kibera, in the Kenyan capital, Nairobi, has founded the event to bring world leaders and policymakers together to “change the dynamic” of the way the big global issues are discussed. He said it was about making “worlds collide”.

    “It is high time that the policymakers come to us, the people and the communities who are doing great work on the ground,” he told the Guardian.

    “Meetings like Davos are all very well, to bring together world leaders, but there is no space for them to interact with the poor and with people doing the work in the communities. So this forum will fill this gap.”

    The forum is designed to tackle world poverty by reversing the often unequal power dynamics of development conferences, and will take place in January. It will be that rare example, said Odede, of a conference choosing its location to give a real voice to the poorest in finding solutions to their own problems.

    “We will have a 50/50 split of influential leaders and of community leaders from Kibera, from Africa, from India, from Brazil, who have been left out of the conversations for too long

    Ka kite Ano link below Kia Kaha to all the Poor tangata of the Papatuanuku.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/sep/25/global-poverty-conference-to-be-held-in-slum

  16. Eco maori 16
    26 September 2019 at 2:09 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

    https://youtu.be/hlfQVvsNLFk

  17. Eco maori 17
    26 September 2019 at 3:55 pm

    It's a excellent start to our journey to carbon neutral Papatuanuku economy's. But we will have to ramp up the efforts very quickly. I can see it happening the efforts put into getting climate change accepted has been Ginormous to get the messages out through the oil barons money of misinformation. I liken it to a huge mountain size ball that has taken all the good tangata efforts now to start it rolling in Our favour it is now unstoppable and will gather speed quite quickly whom ever gets in the way now will be squashed. Ma Te Wa.

    Tariff announcement 'great' but time running out

    New Zealand announces plans to remove tariffs on solar panels and wind turbines, but an expert warns other countries will need to embrace green technologies within nine years to reach zero carbon goals.

    New Zealand announces plans to remove tariffs on solar panels and wind turbines, but an expert warns other countries will need to embrace green technologies within nine years to reach zero carbon goals.

    New Zealand's move to abolish tariffs on environmental goods was a "great step", says the founder of a solar energy provider.

    But Solarcity's Andrew Booth, who will open Friday's climate protest in Nelson, plans to deliver a wider message that today's generation had failed the next by failing to act sooner on climate change .

    Booth said Jacinda Ardern's announcement at the United Nations of a deal with four other small countries, aimed at removing tariffs on goods like solar panels or wind turbines, would help create a level playing field for the technology and see a further decline in solar panel prices.

    "There aren't huge trade tariffs on solar panels in New Zealand, there's a small tariff that is applied at the exit point in China.

    "But I think you'll find … overall investment levels will accelerate and therefore the price of the technology will fall even more rapidly than it has so far," said Booth, a former international board director of Greenpeace.

    * Carbon emissions have been good for human life and longevity
    * As world leaders discussed climate, Australia's PM admired a 'smart Drive-Thru'
    * Jacinda Ardern's big day in the Big Apple

    The price of panels had dropped by over 300 per cent in the last 10 years, with the cost of importing a panel into New Zealand around $1.20 per watt five years ago, compared to an average landed price in New Zealand of around 28 cents US per watt now, he said.

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/116106648/tariff-announcement-great-but-time-running-out

  18. Eco maori 18
    26 September 2019 at 6:28 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Condolences to the whanau of the 9 year old girl who was lost in Tangaroa on the West Coast .

    I don't know how The biggest exporter of milk products in the Papatuanuku can not make a profit it has lost money heaps of times WTF.

    national up to their dirty tricks again

    I. Quite like the Late Show hosted by Steven just been to busy of late I did see Te Wahine Star of Empire its great to see The Empire show becoming so popular.

    Nice dusting of snow for the South Island last night we can feel the effects of that weather up here.

    Our Pacific Islands cosin are feeling the effects of Tangaroa level rise cause by Global warming now the evedince is right there before our eyes.

    Ka kite Ano

  19. Eco maori 19
    26 September 2019 at 6:52 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    So people who supplies services and products to Tangata Whenua trusts farms are ripping them off like the people selling expensive effluent system that are expensive to maintained they could have spent 20 % of the putea and built a system that needs maintenaning every 10 years that's Capitalism at its best like a mechanic charging for spark plugs for a old Wahines diesel waka.

    There you go Whanau Maori getting less of the Acc insurance system than the rest of the population Whanau if your injury make a Acc claim.

    Ka kite Ano

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