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Open Mike 24/11/2018

Written By: - Date published: 5:59 am, November 24th, 2018 - 168 comments
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168 comments on “Open Mike 24/11/2018 ”

  1. WeTheBleeple 1

    We are living in incredible times. The best and worst of humanity presents itself to us on a daily basis. We are often concentrated on the worst of it.

    Here’s good news. Yes, I’m repeating from daily review, where it was overlooked/ignored/posted too late/who cares its done now.


    I volunteer for a new liver, and a Jamieson’s and Dry.

    • AB 1.1

      Awesome. We can be wage slaves and debt serfs for 100 years rather than a mere 40.

      • SpaceMonkey 1.1.1

        No… only the super rich will be able to afford it. The wage slaves and serfs will find they have organs that are saleable.

    • SaveNZ 1.2

      Just when you think neoliberalism can not get any worse….

      Recommend this series “Altered Carbon”… when the rich don’t die… when the tortured once dead and can be bought back to life to be tortured again and again … on Netflicks and probably other places. Worthwhile binge viewing.

      Altered Carbon.


      • SaveNZ 1.2.1

        Identity politics gone too far…

        Santa banned from NZ Santa Parade for saying only men can play Santa – people about to lose their shit in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1


        (Hope Santa takes them to court for unfair dismissal if they sack long standing Santa)

        • James

          it’s stuff like this that will bring around the end of this PC bullshit.

        • Cinny

          Dang that’s stupid as.

          Santa is a male, a female santa is just wrong, that’s why there is Mrs Claus.

        • McFlock

          The deal-breaker was probably more relegating women to “little skirts and tops”

          • Cinny

            O.O dirty old man, ewwwww.

            In that case, that particular santa is not needed, not ever, anywhere.

            • McFlock

              The funny thing is that once Santa’s suited up with the padding and the beard, nobody gives a shit who’s inside it. It’s a jolly jape etc whomever plays it.

              But TDB and the media focus on the suit, not the guy’s comments like: “We employ Santa’s Little Helpers, and they wear a little skirt and top … but I wouldn’t put a guy in a skirt and top — right?”

              I always thought the helpers with in cheap tunics and green tights regardless of gender, but I guess folks do things differently these days…

              • Cinny

                Yes that was really interesting, because it’s exactly what I was hearing on the wireless yesterday, all about the suit.

                Nada about the pervy words, re wearing a little skirt and a top.

                Sheez, I got played/brainwashed/narrative twisted by the media.

                Thanks McFlock for the bigger picture, much appreciated.

      • WeTheBleeple 1.2.2

        I wondered if you folks could get a medical breakthrough like this and turn it into a negative. Shame on you. Last time I checked we had a health system albeit slightly battered. Once the patent is lost from the procedures (is it 20 x years still?) this will become common. And we (hospitals) will be able to buy an organ incubator.

        Not all future scenarios are Dystopian.

        If you want to see how creepy the rich could be go no further than modern style vampirism.

        The blood plasma of young and healthy individuals is transplanted to older less healthy individuals.

        The procedure and results are controversial, but have not stopped the practice gaining traction.


        Billionaires keeping teens in the basement of their island mansions for a fresh blood supply. If you really want to play invent a conspiracy 😉

    • JanM 1.3

      How can you bear to ruin a Jamieson’s with dry???

    • Gabby 1.4

      And every weekend you volunteer to sluice out the drunk tank, you get to keep your new liver.

    • Tricledrown 1.5

      Suicidal people will be rejected sorry for leaving you dejected.

    • WeTheBleeple 2.1

      That sounds really good the huge issue being growing large volumes of the particular species. Saltwater aquaponic ventures have had success with various seaweeds over time it might be worth pulling those researchers/entrepreneurs in on this.

      The reduced feeding won’t go down well with farmers.

      My approach would be to selectively breed the homoacetogen bacteria to operate in lower hydrogen environments thus competing with methanogenic bacteria. This would stop a portion of the substrates for methane becoming methane, instead building short chain fatty acids for milk and meat production.

      Government funding welcome.

    • Robert Guyton 2.2

      The dairy industry might like to study research done on kelp that shows huge losses to coastal beds due to the “quality ” of river water that emerges near those beds. Land use is poisoning the kelp beds. Maybe if the rivers were clean, the kelp beds would recover then we could harvest them and feed them to cows and the cows could…oh…hang on…

      • WeTheBleeple 2.2.1

        Yep, that pollution is why I called growing the kelp a huge issue.

        My (partial) solution to bovine methane gives more for less, replacing methane with production. The microbes might be inoculated with the kelp to deal methane a double whammy.

        The pollution has multiple inputs, many from agriculture: tilling (and subsequent loss of soil structure and compaction), erosion, NPK, cattle effluent.

        I’m working on an article on water retention now, I’ll need to stress how slowing/retaining water loss slows/retains nutrient and topsoil losses too.

        I sense trouble on the horizon as big oil moves in on our power supplies and turns NZ into a fertiliser factory. re: 8 rivers. I need more info but it seems to be keen on maintaining much of the status quo aka burning gas to start a process, pumping CO2 back into wells in the hopes of replenishing hydrocarbons, and maintaining their stranglehold on agriculture and power supply.

        As I, and no doubt many others, predicted: big oil has no intention of letting go of power. They’ll only move when they can keep control.

      • greywarshark 2.2.2

        Every time that I heard people decrying river water reaching the sea as ‘going to waste’ I thought why doesn’t anyone mention that whole species have evolved to live in that slightly saline mix, and there must be some result on the coastline from river water changing.

        And here is one the kelp beds are affected. And the thinking of those people, probably farmers, might change now as they understand it wasn’t going to waste. Give them the suggestion of Robert G and they will adapt to this new thinking and understanding.

        Don’t overwork those brains you people. I am starting to see a new source of energy feeding into The Standard pipeline. Of course some may call it
        ‘fertiliser’ but they wouldn’t know the difference between a drop in pollution from a long drop.

        • WeTheBleeple

          Estuarine systems are the most productive in the world. When relatively intact anyway. After Charles retrofit his wetlands as a natural fish farm – you could walk on the fish waiting to be let in…

          The sand flats used to be wall to wall shellfish…

    • DJ Ward 2.4

      Thanks for the information John.

      Seaweed has been an interesting subject in farming for many years. This stuffs not news to me but it’s great to hear they have made progress in finding a solution to a major problem looking for a viable solution.

      I’ve always supported the idea of creating artificial reefs and like environments as a way of employing prison populations, community service, etc.
      Such environments would not only provide a seaweed farming enviroment, paying for the reefs developement costs, and offsetting prisoner costs, but create more high diversity Eco systems.

  2. cleangreen 4

    Chris Trotter raises salient points here that translate into our everyday life; is worth a read.


    “How quickly people forget.”

    Yes for sure. – Chris said; “How quickly people forget.”

    This labour coalition is certainly forgetting their promises made “To be inclusive” (and give us all a voice to be heard.) as they repeatedly promised.

    We will not be so forgetful come the next election will we just?

    This labour coalition will be punished for their ‘forgetfulness too!!!!!.

    Our own HB/Gisborne groups are very disappointed as the Labour Minister of Transport is also very ‘forgetful’ as he has since being chosen as our new ‘Minister of transport received 60 emails from our NGO requesting his ‘indulgence’ in “advocating for us” and requests to meet with us and only once has Phil Twyford ever responded!!!!!!!!

    That was after our letter to him of “congratulations to him on 25th October 2017 for him becoming our new minister of transport”.

    Since then a year ago, after another 59 emails were sent to him requesting a meeting with him, he has apparently “been to busy to bother with our groups since then”

    So yes Labour are being foolish here and caviller, and forgetful as they promised to be a Government that would be “inclusive” – yeah right!!!!!

    Roll around 2020 then so we can show our voice at the voting booth, then these Ministers might awaken from their slumber as they are shown the door if they don’t wake up from their slumber.i!!!

    • SaveNZ 4.1

      In the old days ALL politicians seem to answer every piece of correspondence they received. Sad that they feel they can cut their constituents and the public out by not bothering to reply, and then probably wonder why less people bother voting or don’t vote for them anymore.

      • JanM 4.1.1

        They didn’t answer them themselves – they got sent to the appropriate government department to write

        • cleangreen


          I sent three letters to Helen Clark and her Ministers and she answered all three of them and in the last letter Helen even added 26 words in hand writing!!!!!

          So no to that JanM

          In the old Labour Government of 1999 to 2008 all the ministers we wrote to actually answered our emails fully most of the time.

          But now this labour Government just ignore our HB/Gisborne constituents as through they don’t care any more now to advocate for them.

          Roll around 2020 for revenge!!!!!!.

          • SaveNZ

            I wrote to David Lange and got signed reply… maybe a recent lazy responses by politicians, too busy cozying up for money and donations and now apparently public who are not about to donate some cash, are not worth it….

            • greywarshark

              Well Cleangreen you can try another tack. Get onto Ms Ardern and get the Minister of Transport portfolio transferred to someone else.

              Phil Twyford before the election had:
              Phil was elected to Parliament for the Labour Party in 2008. In Opposition, he held the portfolios of Housing, Transport, Auckland Issues, and Disarmament and
              Arms Control.

              It might have been convenient for him to hang onto the major issues that he had fronted while in Opposition. But housing is really important and I think has become a very hot topic over the other hot topics.

              So who? What about Shane Jones as Minister and Clare Curran as Associate. Shane has a lot on but has force and energy. Clare is keen to get on with things and as long as she worked in with Shane could get a lot done. Those with negative opinions should state who they would like, and look at what their roles are now, and why they would be good.!

              Twyford has been for four years a union organiser and journalist after leaving university. That brought him into touching the working class but what work experience? There is very poor detail of background for NZ politicians. How we are to know whether they are the Right Stuff I don’t know. There is a lot of guff about their interests and intentions and visions blah blah.

              He is good at managing having been a founding member of Oxfam here andthen going to Washington with them. Reminds me of David Shearer’s profile. Job overseas in world political agencies doing aid; shoe-in NZ.

              He has been involved with NZ Labour since 2003. And ran for the North Shore seat in 2005. An ambitious, coming man. He is 55 years born 1963.

              He once told a reporter that he looked up to Michael Cullen’s brand of “old-fashioned Keynesianism”. ?

              • cleangreen

                greywarshark 100% to you.

                Our NGO committee has already suggested this tack but as Secretary yesterday I was given the task of slapping a Official Information Act request on lazy Mr Twyford for him to supply our committee with all emails received and if any were not read or responded to (over 60) that we had sent him from 25th October 2017 till yesterday 23rd November 2018 so we shall see what excuse he had to ignore all but the first email we first sent on 25th October 2017 congratulating him on becoming our new ‘Minister of transport’, so now we will keep you posted on whether he does front up and explain why yesterday’s email to him was sent back as “not read” and we were deply offended there meaning he has ignored our long association with Labour since 19999 during Helen Clark’s excellent government.

                If Phil Twyford is to busy to handle the Transport portfolio and reply to groups requesting he be our ‘advocate’ in transport matters then he needs to give his transport portfolio up to a competent minister who will give rail and road matters his/hers best efforts to bring rail to all provinces.

                We did ask Phil twyford in February 2018 to ask the “transport select committee” to restore the portfolio for a ‘Minister of rail’ again.

                We all now own the rail and when last we had owned the rail we had a minister of rail so we need one now.

                Phil Twyford is waning on the transport portfolio we feel and has lost his mojo since Jacinda took the air transport portfolio off him so this is where we now are sadly.

                • James

                  With you sending him over 60 emails in that time he prob just has you down as a nuisance and they are auto deleted.

                  • Tricledrown

                    Stalker spamming James.

                  • cleangreen

                    James you are a dumb arse aren’t you just?.

                    After our committee received Twyford’s first and only response to our congratulations letter, his two following responses we sought in our responses/enquirers to his letter were not forthcoming.

                    So if you get a letter from anyone do you not respond to them?

                    We see no evidence of that do we?

                    We did warrant a reply to questions raised in ‘his only letter to our Committee’ and Twyford did never respond to our reply to his letter.

                    That was a big show of a lack of respect to any constituent as everyone had to right to a reply to a letter sent from the Minister don’t they?

                    Trickledrown is right james; – you are ‘Stalker spamming’ James.

    • Dennis Frank 4.2

      Trotter’s first commenter made a good point: “this situation illustrates the downside of identity politics taking primacy over class and power relationships, and the enervating effect of both post modernist and neo liberal philosophy on clearly identifying who are the oppressors in society”.

      The rainbow community divided over whether to exclude or include is amusing, eh? Inclusion was their political imperative for so long: flipping to exclusion is sensible when the excluded are the wrong kind of humans. So validity on both sides…

      • Dennis Frank 4.2.1

        Another commenter writes “I may be a straight white male, but I have total sympathy for my fellow New Zealanders in the LGBTQI community.” Just about every time you look, that community seems to have grown another letter into its name. Emergence of such organic diversity is a sign of vitality in evolution.

      • greywarshark 4.2.2

        I was thinking how people who have been passed over, oppressed, behave when they get some power. Are they generous to others, grateful that at last their time has come, and look on the sunny side?

        Did Paula Bennett want to support other sole parents when she arose to prominence?
        Did womens libbers ensure that all women got decent wages and conditions when they won improvements? Or did the middle class women utilise the opportunities to rise in the world of business and then look down on other ‘unsatisfactory’ women?
        On a wider stage, does Israel seem determined to treat the Palestinians as fairly as possible, while at the same time staring Arabs with invasionary ideas down?

        Gay pride Cissy something reminds me of Paula Bennett, making the most of power, and being forthright and uncompromising, when the gay community have won so many concessions they should be happy and building bridges to further improvements.

        • Dennis Frank

          Yes, it’s a syndrome. Human nature to morph into a different person in a different context. The old saying `power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely’ is relevant. Just as a general rule.

          Basically, it’s a test of character: to what extent does someone remain true to original political motivations? Are they serious about representing those they identified with at the start, or will they abandon them? Reminds us of the moral dimension of leadership, usually conspicuous by its absence in our era.

    • Gabby 4.3

      He gets it cleany – morechoochoomorechoochoomorechoochoochoo.

    • Tricledrown 4.4

      60 emails That looks more like stalking abuse from obsessive nutjobs!
      Write a letter most govt ministers work 16 hr days 7 days a week. To demand time is unreasonable. Why not try the green spokesperson instead of haranguing minister.

  3. Observer Tokoroa 5

    Simon – A sick man

    The Trolls have tied their necks to the mad caucus of Simon Bridges. They don’t realise he will trample all over his own Party with his Lies and his hatred of the ordinary New Zealand man and woman.

    He, has given his neck to the Chinese Government and Donors. He has allowed Paula Bennett to deny there is a crisis in housing, when even The Herald shouted out in 2017 – Don’t be so dumb Bennett. Don’t be so dumb Billy English.

    For me the stupidity of the Trolls – I include Farrar, Hooten , James, BM and Mrs Boag , Judith Collins – is demonstrated by greed for Oil and Gas. Also their demand to allow Farmers to poison every stream and river in New Zealand.

    Oil is Lethal, as is Gas. It Pollutes our Air. Diesel Fuel is highly Carcinogenic. So is Petroleum. So is Gas.

    Water is essential to all living creatures. Nitrate saturation of our streams and rivers is a crime. It will not be long before Farmers and Industry who pollute our water will be imprisoned for long Sentences.

    People such as the Greens. who give our clean water away to their friends will also find themselves in prison. We simply cannot afford Troll stupidity.

    NZ is Not for Sale. Bye Bye National

    • SaveNZ 5.1

      He’s a pretty communist

      (of course I think the CCP has reinvented the concept of communism, probably quite a different version than the original manifesto, that comrades like Simon, Phil, Judith and many other NZ politicans can profit from).

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1

        of course I think the CCP has reinvented the concept of communism

        They seem to have reinvented it as capitalism.

        • Gabby

          They’re Fordists draccy.

        • SaveNZ

          maybe it’s communcapitalistism

          totalitarianism is still a good description of many powers.

        • millsy

          Though, had USSR and its vassals adopted the Chinese model rather the gangster capitalism and reactionary conservatism in place now, a whole of of people would be better off.

        • Tricledrown

          CCP hasn’t reinvented capitalism it’s a command and Control capitalism with central planning.
          Allowing China to make changes quickly which Democratically elected economies let economies flounder and yield to to many influences and influences.
          China can react quickly when money printing is required they do it. Currency changes the same dumping to gain market share same again, protection of markets they do it as the Dairy industry knows all to well. Stock Piling raw materials China does it.
          Other economies may have to wait several or more electoral cycles.
          Those who disagree with policies disappear harvested for body parts if they are lucky.

    • James 5.2

      So much stupidity in one post so let’s start with just one point:

      How will the greens find themselves in prison ?

      Are you suggesting they have been breaking laws ?

      • SaveNZ 5.2.1

        Maybe crimes against stupidity, when there is public loss of amenity through gross stupidity.

        It was legal for the tobacco, asbestos and so forth, later on, they had to pay big fines, same will hopefully happen with all these people siphoning from the aquifers for profit and those that allowed it.

  4. Adrian Thornton 6

    Pretty much everybody is pointing fingers at Trump and tut tut about his outright support for the Saudis , while at the same time pretty much everybody will carry on trading and doing business with the Saudis…and of course it is not as if everybody didn’t already know about the Saudi’s long and bloody history of human rights abuses including the hanging and beheading and even crucifying of it’s own citizens regularly…the hypocrisy is so stark it is almost farce…

    ‘Saudi Arabia seeks death penalty against female human rights activist’

    ‘Saudi Arabia Rejects Human-Rights Criticism, Then Crucifies Someone’

    ‘Sri Lankan maid Rizana Nafeek beheaded in Saudi Arabia – BBC News’

    …and it is not as if we will curtail any of our own US$412.67 Million trade with Saudi Arabia any time soon..

    No, all Trump is exposing in broad daylight is that there is no room for morals or ethical considerations when the political ideology that guides your counties every decisions is constant and unending growth…wether that means USA first, or NZ first, the final decision will be the same…the only real difference is that bitter pill is sold to Kiwi’s in a more pragmatic way.

    So maybe we should be saving our finger pointing and tut tutting for someone a little more closely to home…whats that old saying about backyards…

    You could argue that Trump is at the very least the most honest of them all?

    • SaveNZ 6.1

      Good points Adrian Thornton

      Maybe Trump is hated more for exposing what other government’s are also doing, but not putting a marketing spin on it.

      Lets see how soon, business will be ‘bought back’ into the fold…

      Or will other governments and international bodies and business actually do something meaningful and take a moral stand?

      Mass hypocrisy seems to be on the rise.

      At least the Natz were always clear they would sell their soul for a $ and remember their Saudi sheep deal, it’s more incompetence that let them down than greed on their botched bribes.

      • Adrian Thornton 6.1.1

        @SaveNZ, yeh this is my main problem with Labour NZ, watching them “putting a marketing spin” on Liberalism that IMO is worse than the ‘harder’ (but at least more honest) National version of it, it leaves citizens with no real political choice but this free market economic liberalist ideology…which means as a country, you will end up trading any and all moral and ethical positions or stands that your country might have thought it stood or stands for, to the invisible hand of competition economics.

        And if you haven’t sold out that moral/ethical stand today…you can be sure someone will offer you just the right price for you to forget it tomorrow…everything is apparently for sale in our bright new free market gig economy.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.2

      No, all Trump is exposing in broad daylight is that there is no room for morals or ethical considerations when the political ideology that guides your counties every decisions is constant and unending growth…wether that means USA first, or NZ first, the final decision will be the same…the only real difference is that bitter pill is sold to Kiwi’s in a more pragmatic way.

      True but its not USA first or NZ first but rich people first. They’re really the only ones who benefit from the present round of globalisation. Same as happened in the 19th century round as well now that I think about it.

      The present system is all about making the rich richer. To achieve that, though, everyone else must become poorer. That’s just accounting.

      • Adrian Thornton 6.2.1

        “True but its not USA first or NZ first but rich people first. They’re really the only ones who benefit from the present round of globalisation. Same as happened in the 19th century round as well now that I think about it.”

        I agree with you there, but one big difference is that now a huge part of the population has also caught the disease of greed, either by trading houses or stocks or whatever, and when you let that greed genie out of the bottle it seems like it will be hard to squash back in, so unfortunately now many of our fellow citizens buy into this greedy liberal ideology, even though it is obviously destroying us all, including them and their families.
        Greed is a extremely powerful part of the human psyche that liberalism (I think) originally unleashed by dumb mistake, but now is cynically tapping into…stopping it will be very difficult.

  5. greywarshark 7

    Do people here agree with this attitude prevailing in NZ? This is what I encountered in Daily Review 23/11.

    As we age our tendency to hark back to our halycon formative years increases. We pine for the ways things used to be. We all have a soft spot for the music we listened to as 15-25 year olds.

    Reading the posts of the older contributors to this blog an international observer could easily deduce that of the 198 countries in the world we are living in the biggest shit-hole of all.

    No child had their legs blown off in NZ today, nobody starved to death, nobody was imprisoned for life for criticizing the government.

    We don’t know how lucky we are.

    This describes an attitude which I have been arguing against for years, and I think that most people writing on The Standard also do not agree with it. How come this can pop up still, like a stainless steel coated shield againstour considered human values and what I thought the left basically thinks, and The Declaration of the Rights of Man ushered in.

    And a thinkpiece from The Guardian on the matter.

    • cleangreen 7.1


      As elders we all want to see a real solid ‘equal redistribution of our ‘commonwealth to all NZders not just a few.’

      Now that the pendulum has swung wildly to the right; – where many of us are poor elders are stripped with no increase in living costs, – that are climbing every day, we are now among the ‘working and unemployed poor in NZ.

      In the 1950’s there was a solid ‘safety net’ around the elders income but that has gone now.

    • Craig H 7.2

      It’s important to keep perspective on these matters, but I agree that it should not be used to dismiss valid concerns.

      • greywarshark 7.2.1

        Thanks Craig H
        I was just watching a bit of a video where politics was being satirised and then breaking into real critiques and the guy was saying that the left was splitting into narrow silos so that there could be no movement from the road to utopia, basically.

        So keeping perspective as you suggest seems to be what we need, and also not to have the competitive darts approach where the small circle in the middle is the only one to bother about.

  6. Observer Tokoroa 8

    We take it for Granted

    The Police Force is a must. We cannot do without it. Day and night it is putting itself in danger because Families are being abused; Druggies are acting up like zombies; Motorists are pretending they can drive; and the town is awash with alcohol and anger.

    Some misfits and crims like to throw abuse at the men and women of the Police Force.

    But normal people are glad of Police Bravery and Support.

    I think that Gay people thankfully, are well accepted in the community these days- and accepted as naturally normal citizens.

    Parades are an opportunity for people to honour the Bravery and the Service of our Police. They are so worthy of that.

    • greywarshark 8.1

      Police are not always good. Gay people are not always perfect. We need to see around any disagreement, not be idealistic.

      Police are being run less as a community organisation, and the military-style authoritarianism taken precedence. And they have been encouraged to reduce crime by going around looking for it, stopping people as they go about their business who are questioned as to their rights to be there and to see whether they may be breaking some law.

      The way that convicted law breakers are treated is not for rehabilitation and being found jobs and organisations that will help against recidivism. That is how crime is reduced. Police are being loaded with the job of decreasing crime, and that makes them too prominent in everybody’s life. They deserve better lives and jobs and if government was intelligent and determined to follow better methods the police would not be in their invidious position.

  7. greywarshark 9

    Is our political term too short to achieve climate change action? An ex political leader says that the cycle of re-election is a distracting feature thinking about appealing to the people who may not be willing to face whatever is their likely future that the politicians are supposed to be improving.

    That came up in an interview this morning between Kim Hill and Mary Robinson
    talking about climate change and what is needed to help the planet from going out of balance.

    The former president of Ireland, Mary Robinson, has turned her energy to the fight against climate change. She has set up The Mary Robinson Foundation – Climate Justice which focuses on the struggle to secure justice for people who are vulnerable to the impacts of climate change and who are usually forgotten – the poor, the disempowered and the marginalised. She has also released a series of podcasts with comedian Maeve Higgins, Mothers of Invention, which tells the stories of women all over the world driving climate solutions. She joins Kim to talk about her new book, Climate Justice: Hope, Resilience, and the Fight for a Sustainable Future, in which she argues that grassroots activists offer hope in the face of climate change.

    Look on RNZ site after 10am for audio.

    • cleangreen 9.1


      Good points in all that.

      While we are discussing the ‘health of our communities’ where is the labour coalition government’s new bill called “Health and well being bill” at today ,does anyone know????


      The Government’s commitment to a broad agenda of wellbeing has been reinforced by the intention to reinstate the requirement on local government to promote the social, economic, environmental and cultural wellbeing of communities.
      There is a shared role for central and local government when it comes to wellbeing. Local government plays a key and important role in community development.
      The four wellbeing domains – social, economic, environmental and cultural- have recently been reintroduced into the Purpose clause of the Local Government Act.

    • WeTheBleeple 9.2

      If we called a war footing, doesn’t that cancel out elections?

  8. Observer Tokoroa 10

    Hi Greywarshark

    I enjoy your research and thought. Excellent.

    In regard to Crime, it seems that children raised in dysfunctional homes are in great danger of not having literacy or numeracy and enter into a life of crime and recidivism.

    So, From very early on there has to be a high level of intervention in those homes – with focus on the children.

    Although we often say that Maori are the main prisoners, Pakeha are not all that far behind them in number.

    The Raising of Young is the prime duty of adults.

    • DJ Ward 10.1

      With focus on the children?

      If the parents issues are not being addressed how does it improve the children’s lives. If the parents are improved doesn’t that result in improvement for the child. If the parents remain dysfunctional then the foundation of improving the child’s outcome remains rotten.

      Services move on and the children’s enviroment is possibly worse as the parents are punished by ideology portrayed as “best interests of the child”

    • greywarshark 10.2

      Hi Observer I can see you are thinking deeply.

      Remembered from my studies on social policy, a government that really cares about FAMILIES not just carrying on about children, and wants to advance the welfare and self-sufficiency and socialisation of the poor and their children, puts a lot of attention in working ALONGSIDE parents. They would have parents bring their children to school, and while their children are young give the parents all the information, support and reward needed to keep a positive move upward and onward when the support can be lessened. The object is to build knowledge, practicality, confidence and pride in parents and then make sure that they can move out of a downward-pushing location and lifestyle.

      The peer group pressure can be punishing, and breaking the location and relationship cycle can be very freeing. When the parents and children are doing reasonably well, then there is the possibility of incentives and apprenticeships for the children. Then if parents on benefits are not scraped to the bone by supertax clawbacks by ‘Welfare’ (note changed slightly ‘farewell’) on every extra $ earned over the benefits they are on the path away from poverty and dependency.
      And then fare well, would be an appropriate goodbye to people going from the benefit roles.

      But you might not realise Observer, that there is a pleasure for many to beat up on poor people and lay the problems of society at their feet as if caused by them. When in fact, they are sufferers of mean policies that don’t meet their needs, and give them opportunities to prepare for life at the right time.

      The best time is when children are growing, in the womb, toddling, becoming themselves when they are under FIVE, and helping all parents then, and not piling hate and despising thoughts on parents for being parents, FGS would change everything. But first you have to get policy out of the hands of haters of children and misers with no caring for others in their fingertips. Too many people like children only when they are behaving like well-schooled circus dogs, there for people’s entertainment ‘Oh how sweet, what a cute little chap’!

  9. NZJester 11

    I was just reading this RNZ article
    Previous government had ‘shocking attitude’ to vehicle safety

    While reading it I was reminded of all the other cases where the previous National Governments lax attitude to enforcing the laws put in to protect people has either cost lives and or seen people badly injured.

    Unsafe vehicles on our roads was just a small part of how their lax attitude to enforcing laws and letting businesses self-regulate has left devastation in their wake.

    The Pike River mine tragedy and deaths of forestry workers are another two that come to mind.

    I think if someone was to compile a list of names of people who have died due to the previous National Government not enforcing rules, weakening rules, and allowing business to self-regulate it would be a substantial list.

    Then there is also the hidden harm they caused by cutting back in funding to the health sector, allowing our rivers and streams to be polluted, and failing to find soloutions to help tackle climate change. Those would have caused deaths too that will not be as easy to pin on their lax management.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      I think if someone was to compile a list of names of people who have died due to the previous National Government not enforcing rules, weakening rules, and allowing business to self-regulate it would be a substantial list.

      And something that needs to be done with appropriate charges laid on that previous government.

      It is wrong that a government can can cause deaths through negligence and not be held accountable for them.

      • cleangreen 11.1.1

        100% Draco,

        National caused the “Leaky homes issue to didn’t they?

        This now has spread over to large buildings like Middle more hospital now and others so many to even count all that was clad with that ‘substandard’ siding material fro Australian company ‘Hardies’ right?

        And they called our builders “cowboys”????

        national are the bloody cowboys like “Maurice Williamson” right?

      • Tricledrown 11.1.2

        One area National belatedly did was new tough Health and Safety laws.
        But they underfunded Mobie deliberately relying on self regulation rather than preventive inspectors!

    • Ad 11.2

      You are dead right and it is a very big story to go in to.

      NZTA is the most powerful agency in the government and it has had no effective oversight for nearly a decade.

      The new Labour-appointed Chair Michael Stiassny is a total pit bull in a meat truck, and the Chief Executive is so shit it’s like listening to one of the Undead.

      Nearly 50% staff turnover in 2017 and close to 35% already this year.

      This is an organization in really serious trouble.

      The government should now expect questions in the House about how much contracting out all the investigations and prosecutions out to Meredith Connell is actually costing the taxpayer.

      I suspect this is going to take a bit of a legislative shift in the second quarter of next year to make MOT an effective controller of NZTA. Currently NZTA is an out of control monolith.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.2.1

        The government should now expect questions in the House about how much contracting out all the investigations and prosecutions out to Meredith Connell is actually costing the taxpayer.

        Yes. The corruption that’s been found in the NZTA is a great reason why we should have kept the MoW and why we should bring it back.

        Outsourcing government work invites such corruption.

        • Ad

          Not corruption in any legal sense.

          Just politically directed laziness.

          • Draco T Bastard


            Pretty sure that counts as corruption in a ‘legal sense’. If it doesn’t then we seriously need to improve the quality of our anti-corruption law.

            • Ad

              Not NZTA itself; contracted agencies.

              More to come in the MoT review.

              • cleangreen

                Yes Draco,

                The media was always referring NZTA as “The Transport agency” –

                No that its incorrect.

                NZTA is only a (RCA) or Road Controlling Authority”

                Ministry of Transport is the “Principal Transport Government Advisory Agency” for all transport matters including road, rail, shipping, and air.

                I wished the media would for once get the facts right.


                About the Ministry of Transport
                Last updated on: 14/08/2018

                The Ministry of Transport is the government’s principal transport adviser. The majority of our work is in providing policy advice and support to Ministers.

                Through our advice we aim to:

                improve the overall performance of the transport system
                improve the performance of transport Crown entities
                achieve better value for money for the government from its investment in the transport system.
                We help the government give effect to its policy by supporting the development of legislation, regulations and rules. We also manage and account for funds invested in transport.

                The Ministry represents New Zealand’s interests internationally, particularly in aviation and maritime.

                We work with Crown entities
                We assist the government in its relationship with the transport Crown entities to ensure they are effectively governed, and are accountable for their performance and monitoring arrangements for transport sector Crown entities.

                Visit the Transport Sector Functions page for more information

                We work with local government authorities
                Local government authorities own, maintain and develop New Zealand’s local road network and perform important regulatory functions. Regional councils (and unitary authorities) are required to develop regional land transport strategies that guide the decision-making of local councils. In the Auckland region, the Auckland Transport carries out these functions. Some local authorities own seaports and airports, or share ownership with the Crown.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Well, ok.

                My point still stands. We get this corruption because of outsourcing government service to private enterprise who are incentivised not to do the work properly to make a bigger profit.

                • Tricledrown

                  The truck safety issue is another area which Ken Shirley Nationals back door funder has allowed most of our trucking industry to run dangerously unsafe trucks Buses trailers on our roads the extent of this deliberate over site shows how easily corrupt able National is. Not to mention the CCP The Exclusive Brethren (Simon no nothing accepting bribes) /Catholic Church (Bill English side lining their systematic abuse) Tories corrupt to the core bending to the highest bidders.

                  • cleangreen

                    100% Tricledrown.

                    Truckies were given a free ride ‘wet bus ticket’ here as always.

                    Note; – that NZTA as ‘safety police over our public railway’ are very strict on rail safety rules even with private rail companies leasing rail for tourism events, unlike seeing that NZTA are slack over shoddy private operators of truck haulage safety rules it appears.

        • greywarshark



          This is what you get when you employ businessmen and businesswomen! to head government agencies. There used to be big fusses made about double-dipping.
          Then it only got called for people like Julian Assange.

          I think one of the CEOs of the social welfare department used to be ceo of a shipping agency. He introduced a priority phone calling set up. Then I guess he could take it all the way to saying we will return your call in a week as you are regarded as low priority. Of course that is just making fun, they wouldn’t think of returning a call. Or the recipient wouldn’t answer fast enough, three rings and you’re out!

          With business, you pay more so they can run an efficient organisation attending to only what is important and make a profit from that. On a chart of their customer and action there would be crossed lines in the middle and a dead spot near the intersection full of people who weren’t important.

      • cleangreen 11.2.2

        1000% Ad.

        Yes we agree fully that MInistry of transport (MoT) needs to be beefed up to take control of NZTA as it is a runaway agency that has no principals at all and it tried to roll over MoT in 2014 so yes do this Minster of transport if he is listening.

        see my comment about the NZTA on . reply to Draco about NZTA.

  10. Draco T Bastard 12

    Five countries hold 70% of world’s last wildernesses, map reveals

    The paper comes after the team of scientists produced data in 2016 that charted the planet’s remaining terrestrial wilderness and in 2018 examined which parts of the world’s oceans remained free from the damaging impacts of human activity.

    They found that more than 77% of land – excluding Antarctica – and 87% of oceans had been modified by human intervention.

    We’re not included in those five as our land has been fully modified by humanity. Most of it flipped over to the destruction of farming.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 12.1

      Thanks Draco; that an important ‘comment’ in the journal Nature.

      “Global conservation policy must stop the disappearance of Earth’s few intact ecosystems, warn James E. M. Watson, James R. Allan and colleagues.”

      NZ, regrettably, has negligible true terrestrial wilderness (mining in national parks, anyone?), but creeps into the top ten in a list of (total; terrestrial and marine) wildest countries, thanks to an extended marine environment.

      At #9, NZ is between ‘terrestrial wilds’ China (#8) and Algeria (#10).

      France (#6) and Kiribati (#7) also make the list solely for their marine wilds.


  11. cleangreen 13

    This is significant good on Nania Mahuta. – well done.


    Local governance for community well-being
    With the reintroduction of the four well-beings and commitment to a Wellbeing Budget 2019, there is an opportunity to harness local government’s strengths and proximity to its communities and explore how central and local government can align its well-being objectives, frameworks and measures.

    This programme will focus on how our two levels of government can and should work together to deliver intergenerational well-being, and on the future role of local governance in New Zealand in strengthening local democracy, instilling greater trust and confidence in local governance and supporting regional growth. It will explore what settings, conditions and resources are required to support local government in this work.


    ‘It’s important to initiate the conversation about how Central and Local Government can contribute, enhance and support the types of expectations that communities seek around environmental stewardship, urban planning and place-making, public services and amenities, housing and community development and intergenerational wellbeing,” said Nanaia Mahuta.

    20th November 2018.

    20 NOVEMBER 2018
    Wellbeing and Water – a necessary conversation with Local Government


    Local Government
    The Government has announced plans to initiate a strategic conversation with Local Government about community well-being and proposals to overhaul the regulation of water. Led by the Minister of Local Government Nanaia Mahuta, the multi-agency Three Waters Review has been investigating the state and performance of New Zealand’s drinking water, wastewater and storm water systems.
    “Equally important is the need to engage our Councils and Central Government in what we can do collaboratively to enhance wellbeing through regional growth, strengthening the role of our communities and engaging the potential of our young people – essential to that will be the challenge of our waters infrastructure,” said the Hon Nanaia Mahuta.

    • Ad 13.1

      They tried multiple bottom line accountability in the previous local government legislation two decades ago and it didn’t work.

      Nanaia is talking talk about water entity amalgamated but theres no sign of it. So far it’s just statements.

  12. cleangreen 15

    Full support for carpet worker going out on strike.

    Workers at Godfrey Hirst carpets have downed tools for the Living Wage – First Union

    As those plastic (Nylon) carpets you are exposed to are toxic and dangerous to work with as they out-gas some very toxic chemicals,

    I was working in a building in Canada when they bought 5 acres of nylon carpeting into the 12 storey un-ventilated building I was working in at the time and laid the carpet down while we were working there.

    In six moths time 40 workers including me was permanently damaged from the chemicals they out-gas such as, butadiene, and styrene, TDI, formaldehyde and toluene, to name a few including the chemicals used when they sprayed the carpets with flame and bug deterrents.

    Labour Canada did a sampling of the ‘air quality’ and said we should not have been exposed to these chemicals.


    Nylon carpet workers in US studies suffer from early cancers and death now.

    Wool carpets are safer, so you need money for dangerous workplaces.

  13. Poission 16

    HVDC cook strait link down for repairs.


    3 cents a megawatt in the south island.

    $630-650 mw in AK wlg.


  14. Dirty farmers let us all down. Come on and pull your bloody socks up.

    … Of the more than 230 high risk dairy farms inspected by the Waikato Regional Council since the beginning of July, 69 were found be significantly non-compliant. Those 69 farms included some which were significantly non-compliant from the previous season…

    … There is no more time or patience for excuses such as faulty irrigators, broken down pumps or burst pipes. A faulty speedometer will not excuse a speeding tick or a stopped watch excuse a parking ticket…


    • DJ Ward 17.1

      For most farms early autumn to late June is when workers can get to take time off. Workers often work 7 days a week. My partner gets a 3 day weekend once a month if she is lucky. She only stopped working when her contractions started in the shed, and was back at work only days after giving birth to our children.

      This year nobody got time off as significant fencing, drain maintenance etc projects had to be done to be compliant to new rules and be permitted to supply.

      Amongst the bad actors are people who don’t deserve to be tarred with someone else’s brush.

      • marty mars 17.1.1

        That’s the point of the article. Try reading eh.

        Excuses don’t cut it – stop the shit and protect the waterways – that’s it really.

        • DJ Ward

          That’s the point they are. There is only so many hours in the day. We have made significant investment, and sacrificed in improving things. Our money, and definately not yours because you invest nothing in solutions.

          Bad actors within the industry are being exposed.

          Try writing about city waterways and see what reality you can discover.

          • marty mars

            Fuck off noddy. I’ve milked and I know the truth of that business.

            Dirty farmers are killing our country with their greed and selfish desire for more money. Good farmers need to step up instead of bleating and blaming others. Take responsibility for your bad apples.

            • DJ Ward

              It must have been a long time ago then, because you’ve said nothing about what is happening now.

              If you don’t like us making money or making a profit, don’t ask for our taxes. Because we get virtualy nothing in return for the taxes we pay.

              • I posted a whole article up and responded to your comments. You seem to struggle to understand what you are reading. My suggestion is read it twice before responding thus saving you embarrasment.

                • DJ Ward

                  I did read it, and have taken your advice in case I made a mistake and read it again.

                  “To their credit it is now the careful and responsible dairy farmers…”
                  Which was my point.

                  “Dirty farmers let us all down. Come on and pull your bloody socks up.”
                  Which is what I was responding too.
                  In hindsight I may have misinterpreted that.
                  Generalisations are fraught with misinterpreted responses, something I make a mistake in doing myself.

                  • marty mars

                    “An inspirational short film showcasing New Zealand farmers leading the way with regenerative techniques to save our rivers from pollution and contamination. ”

                • Dennis Frank

                  I agree that Tom O’Connor has put up a significant report. A 30% delinquency rate in Waikato is big news, good on you for the link. I wonder if he’s a farmer, or someone who works in compliance management.

                  Perhaps DJW is commenting on the general situation. A Fed Farmers chappie a while back put the nationwide non-compliance rate around 10%. So the real issue is why failure to comply is so much higher in Waikato.

              • Draco T Bastard

                1. Farmers don’t pay taxes
                2. They get: Roads, trains, aircraft, educated workers, power, bailouts by government when their mismanagement brings about failure, etcetera

                All for the low price of nothing.

                • DJ Ward

                  Obviously farmers get some back like schooling, police, military etc.

                  The farm pays large rates, but get no services. No water, sewerage, rubbish collection or roading services. We have a council owned drain through the property that they are responsible for. They refuse to maintain it so we have to pay for a big digger to clean it as it blocks up going under a main road flooding the farm.

                  The owners husband who was super healthy never using the health system had a off farm accident resulting in a degenerative brain injury. He required 24 hours specialist care the 74 year old wife couldn’t provide. Due to assets she paid $5,000 per month over a year until his death.

                  Aircraft. We just hired one to do some work. $17,000 plus GS Tax.
                  Trains. Fonteras use of Rail is probably one of the only profitable parts of the network.
                  Power? The taxpayer provides power? You should see our bill. The power company pays tax on profits from us. The farm was subject to the public works act with towers built on it so you can have power.
                  Bailouts? Never seen one of those.
                  Roads? We have a State highway boundary but they are for connecting cities, plus we pay vehicle taxes for that.
                  Education. Nobody has a tertiary education, most leaving at 15. (Exclude me as I’m not personely involved with the farm) It’s 20km to get to kindy, and they closed the local school about 6 years ago, no bus services for the local kids.
                  Other governments services are levied.
                  We protect blocks of Native forest on private land without reward.
                  Provide access to the property to a community group to hold festivals, and free summer holiday camping for families.
                  Every worker pays for what they get with income tax. Helping to raise a total of 6 kids with nobody getting WFF or accommodation supplements.
                  Down chain our production creates jobs and taxes.

                  So blah blah, farmers are bludgers, blah blah.

                  Your link went they pay no tax. Firstly Nash is a bigger dropkick than Kelvin and that’s saying something. Secondly it went farmers only payed $26million in a cherry picked bad year except we excluded this other group of farmers who paid $1.8 billion in tax, ingnored GST, support businesses, income taxes, and the taxes earned by the 15 times income multiplier past the gate for what we make.

                  Yep farmers are bad. City living bludgers having babies for are living are good. I get it.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    Check the finances some time:

                    For all the visual thinkers out there, here’s a chart of government spending per person in New Zealand’s five most populous regions. Aucklanders get less spending per capita than the other large regions. This reflects the city’s young demographics – more workers, fewer pensioners – as well as the economies of scale enabled by larger, denser places.

                    Really, look at that graph. The cities have been subsidising farms for decades.

                    You’re really spouting the BS today:

                    5. Most of the people on welfare are unmarried mothers – many of them teenagers – who have extra children so that they can get more money

                    This is a hoary old myth that combines the resentment of beneficiaries in general, with prurient resentment of the sexy young having too much sex. In fact, the US and New Zealand evidence is that young people are having less sex, later than their parents’ generation.

                    The Salvation Army’s recently published State of the Nation report contains similar positive findings for New Zealand :

                    Teenage pregnancies and abortions have fallen during 2009, which is perhaps welcome news that there are fewer unplanned pregnancies. The number of 11–14 year olds giving birth or having an abortion dropped from 122 in 2008, to 108 in 2009….Although this decline is on a very small base, this number of pregnancies is the lowest in at least eight years. For older teenagers aged 15-19 years old, there was a 10% decline in the rate of pregnancies between 2008 and 2009

                    Such figures help contradict Key’s scaremongering use of the young as a pretext for welfare reform. More to the point, the NZ figures on DPB recipients do not bear out Key’s specific assertion about ‘significant numbers of very young women going onto the DPB and staying there for a lifetime.”

                    In fact, only 3.1 % of those on the DPB are under 20 years of age – and that figure has barely flickered since 2005, when the figure was 2.9 %. Put another way, 97% of the people on the DPB are NOT the ‘very young women’ of Key’s lurid imagination. There are in fact, significantly more people on the DPB over 55 years of age (5.6%) than there are ‘very young women’ receiving this benefit.

                    The vast bulk of DPB recipients (nearly 75%) are what you would expect : they are aged between 25 and 54. Some 61% of them are caring for children six years or under – a figure that, again, has barely changed since 2005. Nearly half are caring for two or more dependent children.

                    Many of these women are caring for children alone because of a marriage breakdown, which is rarely a lifestyle choice. They have not only borne the opportunity cost of foregoing career opportunities to raise a family but are also now doing the bulk of the parenting alone and – if one can believe the child support payment figures – very often without the financial support that is due to them. Even so, more DPB recipients are engaged in part-time work (16%) than those on the dole. Far from being left at home to look after their children in ways that low income workers cannot, people on the DPB have since last September, faced a regime of work tesing.

                    These are the women that the WWG and the Key government want to stigmatise? Even Paula Bennett’s own department doesn’t believe the real problem here is a lack of personal motivation, or an absence of strong incentives. The Social Development Department’s December fact sheet on the DPB blames the economy instead :

                    The number of clients receiving a Domestic Purposes Benefit at the end of December decreased from 106,000 to 98,000 between 2005 and 2007, then increased to reach 113,000 in 2010. This pattern reflects changes in economic conditions. (My emphasis.)

                    One further crucial piece of evidence shows there is no social or economic crisis in the country’s current DPB figures. The ratio of those on the DPB – if taken as a percentage of the working age population – was actually lower in December 2010 (at just over 4%) than it was when National left office in 2000, when the figure was heading for 5%.
                    You’re talking out your arse.

              • Graeme

                “It must have been a long time ago then, because you’ve said nothing about what is happening now.”

                Maybe you should read your own posts….

                ” Workers often work 7 days a week. My partner gets a 3 day weekend once a month if she is lucky. She only stopped working when her contractions started in the shed, and was back at work only days after giving birth to our children.

                This year nobody got time off as significant fencing, drain maintenance etc projects had to be done to be compliant to new rules and be permitted to supply.”

                So your business needed 30% more staff, at least, in order to be able to meet the demands you placed on it. Or you are over stocked by 30%. In any business that’s a recipe for things to turn to shit. But that’s farming.

                • DJ Ward

                  It’s private enterprise, not a Union. We get screwed at every turn. We even have to register our cows and pay a yearly fee as permission for them to live. We made a profit of $40,000 last year, plus the owners profit. We could employ someone else but then there would be no profit. They choose to work hard instead.

                  • Graeme

                    Labour is a resource like every other in a business. Generally the managers of that business will have the same attitudes to the allocation and use of those varied resources. If you are willing to accept a 30% over-use of labour, which is actually yourself and family, then it is reasonable to assume that you are just as prepared to to overuse other resources as well, like your stock and the environment . And probably to a much greater extent than 30% since it’s not coming out of your hide.

                    Are you starting to see what’s wrong here?

                    If most farmers are in the same position as you, since you say that you are one of the good ones, the industry is in serious trouble and there must be some serious basket cases out there.

                    • DJ Ward

                      No they’re not overstocked, the numbers have been fine tuned for the farm so the animals are at peak health and we can cope with drought. No they do not overwork 30%. That was 100% a one off due to a out of the blue rule change for fencing and ramp design rule changes plus council incompetence in managing there drain destroying a bridge we had to replace at our cost. This year they will overwork 0%. But who knows what farming haters will create as rule changes this year.

                      You are not permitted to overuse anything, cow numbers are limited by rules, so is fertiliser use. We don’t irrigate.

                      People who overstock get burnt with calving rates and go bust.

                    • Graeme

                      If it’s the waterway fencing requirement, that was signalled about 3 years ago, and was supposed to only affect 20% of farms, the rest either being fenced already, or not having waterways (which would be very few). So it was left to the last minute and the Council wasn’t able to process the consent in time. Not sure that the incompetence is entirely in the council’s court.

                      If you are having to work 7 days a week, by definition you are 30% understaffed, 5/7 = 0.71, so only 71% staffed. You need more staff before you kill someone, probably yourself.

                  • greywarshark

                    So belong to the business class, just don’t complain to the left and the workers. You are on the end of a string that big business holds and so are we but you seem to think you deserve better. Any new business has to work hard before it can make a profit you know. Workers who want to go into business have to mortgage their houses and then give up having time off. And that may be for three years of living on the smell of an oily rag and perhaps hiring or renting while the money gets sucked into the business.

                    Karl Marx thinking about the range of income between wealthy and poor spent time analysing how it works. You are not poor but soon could be if anything goes wrong. Marx called your class the petite bourgeoisie.

                    Petite bourgeoisie – also petty bourgeoisie, is a French term (sometimes derogatory) referring to a social class comprising semi-autonomous peasantry and small-scale merchants whose politico-economic ideological stance in times of socioeconomic stability is determined by reflecting that of a haute (“high”) bourgeoisie, with which the petite bourgeoisie seeks to identify itself and whose bourgeois morality it strives to imitate.[1]

                    And an interesting piece of theory –
                    He [Wilhelm Reich] claimed that the middle classes were a hotbed for political reaction due to their reliance on the patriarchal family (according to Reich, small businesses are often self-exploiting enterprises of families headed by the father, whose morality binds the family together in their somewhat precarious economic position) and the sexual repression that underlies it.[5]

                    • DJ Ward

                      We don’t own the business. My partner manages it. So she got none of that profit. We are a working class family. I’m a blue collar worker, who is part time due to illness but otherwise a stay at home parent. Labour is supposed to fight for my family. But what are we? Scum that needs labelling?

                      I grew up in poverty. I had to take custody of my brother when I was 19. Worked minimum wage for years living in a caravan.
                      Is that right wing enough for you.

                      I tell you what since you clearly know your subject.

                      What happens if all these horrible farms and horrible capitalist pigs all gave up. Every one of them closing there buisinesses tommorow. All seeing the error of their ways and bowing to Marxist Socialism.

                    • Cinny

                      Far out djward, take a breath.

                      Who is your local MP?

                      And are you the same djward from kiwiblog?

                      Do you not get working for families?

                      How about that healthy homes, insulation?

                      EDIT… The Listening Post is about to start….. epic information once a week at this time, here’s the link


                    • DJ Ward

                      Do I get the business subsidy WFF. We are on the limit. We got it in the first year when I had to stop working, but I got head hunted with a offer understanding of my illness and do a little bit of contract work taking us just over.

                      Am I from kiwiblog. No I’m from somewhere else. I have been politicaly active for 25 years, mostly in the last 5. I am not affiliated with any political party. Labour, National, greens, etc are irrelevant to me. Politically speaking I am a green capitalist. However I dedicated my life to Men’s Rights Advocacy until my death.

      • greywarshark 17.1.2

        DJ Ward
        Please don’t complain to us because we are drawing national structural problems to everyone’s attention. If it is your farm presumably you knew what you were getting into, If you were sharemilkers we have been reading for years about the hard time they have getting their own farms. I remember one man died and his wife said he’d died from overwork. The owner had kept building up his own herd beyond the expected cattle numbers, and the worker trying to look after them and build his own up to viable levels had gone under.

        If you have bitten off more than you can chew and can’t manage to keep up as the conditions have become serious and climate change is dumping its forces on you, perhaps you should face up to reality and give up. The problems we have now have been building over the years and being ignored. Don’t blame us and imply we are mean and unfeeling because of your difficulties. The early pioneers had to go through hell some of them, and we thinking people never wanted to see others be reduced to the same disastrous regimes.

        Look to the shits who got us into the present treadmill that is our economy and give them a tongue lashing. They will laugh at you, but at least you will be directing your ire at the people who are at fault.

        • cleangreen

          100% correct greywarshark.

        • DJ Ward

          No I was pointing out that not all farmers are dirty farmers.

          We knew exactly what we were getting into.

          She started with nothing, worked harder than you ever have to get the opportunity. She has a dream, she fought for it. When she got the opportunity she worked damn hard to make things work. The assets she has created from nothing because of hard work will set her up for the rest of her life. She will own her own farm in the not too distant future as a family Buisiness.

          Labour celebrates Jacinda and her achievements. I’ll call crap on that.

          My partner is the real feminism, the real worker, the person that’s earned my respect. Labour makes her the enemy. Labour makes me the enemy.

          What the hell are you thinking to believe citizens like us should be hated.

          I know perfectly well were societies problems began and they are not where you think they are.

  15. joe90 18

    20 year old Native American Allen Salway on why Thanksgiving is a painful reminder of a sanatised past.

    In 1637 the Pequot Massacre took place, when over 700 Native men, women and children were slaughtered in what’s now known as Mystic, Connecticut. The following day, the governor declared a day of thanksgiving and held a feast to celebrate their victories in battle. Thirty-nine years later in Massachusetts, the colonists declared a “day of public celebration and thanksgiving” saying, “there now scarce remains a name or family of them [Natives] but are either slain, captivated or fled,” right after the slaughtering of a tribe including the beheading of Wampanoag chief Metacom (which remained on display for 24 years after King Philip’s war). It was not until 1863 that Abraham Lincoln officially declared it a national holiday, in the same year the Sioux were being removed from Minnesota, during which the bounty for a Sioux scalp was $25.


  16. marty mars 19

    Good to see action.

    We’ve been advised that strike action has ceased following negotiations between Go Bus and First Union to reach a satisfactory outcome. First Union has agreed to lift its strike notice against Go Bus, and in return Go Bus will immediately lift the Lock Out notice that had been issued against 69 First Union members, who will now return to their duties from today.

    Both parties have agreed to work collaboratively with all funding parties to improve driver’s wages and cease all industrial action in the interim.

    Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu and Waikato-Tainui worked closely with their respective commercial entities to find a solution to the impasse. Rukumoana Schaafhausen, Chair of TeArataura, the Executive of Waikato Tainui says, “as mana whenua in the rohe, I am pleased that the Waikato Regional Council and Hamilton City Council have worked with Go Bus and First Union to find a resolution. Waikato-Tainui, and Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu are committed to ensuring the drivers of Go Bus receive fair remuneration for the work they do in our communities.”

    Lisa Tumahai, Kaiwhakahaere of Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu said, “whilst it was disappointing that Go Bus negotiations with First Union ended up with industrial action, we are strong advocates for the living wage and our focus was to ensure that there is a solution, for the drivers of Go Bus and their whānau.”


    • Ad 19.1

      Great to see union pressure working on the Maori owners, and a public commitment by them to the living wage.

      Would be good to see some union commentary on developments.

      • marty mars 19.1.1

        The union pressure was not helpful imo and the orchestrated media campaign was poor form. This was a combination of groups WORKING TOGETHER not being divisive – learn this ffs.

        • Ad

          You are saying the bus companies would have paid their workers a living wage if there had been no union pressure?

          • marty mars

            wow Is that what you think I’m saying???

            Are you a member of a union?

            • Ad


              It was poor form that the workers were not paid properly in the first place, and it took union intervention and media pressure to get the workers recognition. That’s how it works.

          • greywarshark

            It seems that Go Bus is the employer and supposed to be managing the company. The Maori entities are separate as bus owners I think.

            Did First Union approach the Maori bodies explaining their concerns.? They really needed to go over their bosses heads, to the master company. Go Bus managers could hardly do this, it wasn’t an option for them, it wouldn’t have been in their contract to run back to the owners when there were problems. Go Bus would have been following standard procedure applied in NZ now, get as much out of the workforce for as little moolah as possible.

            • Ad

              The union applied pressure to their employers.
              That’s what the legislation allows for.

              The media picked up on it.

              And it’s working.

              • greywarshark

                But marty mars noticed what you haven’t mentioned in your precis, that there was an outcry against the Maori owners who have contracted the bus company. That is what mm is responding to, the Maori owners being called out as at fault. As you say Ad, the union pressured their employers.

                The person who blackened the Maori holding companies,
                owners is guilty of spreading simple-minded racist criticisms from a too-open flapping mouth,.

                • Ad

                  It’s really OK to hold Maori corporations to account. Whether the public should expect any more or the same from Maori corporations as any other corporate because it is a Maori corporation is a really interesting debate, but a bit philosophical to me.

                  I do see that it would be hard to have that debate about the accountability of Maori corporations without the more conservative end of the political spectrum to coming in boots and all. Which would not be useful.

                  Since unions and worker representation generally is so weak in New Zealand I’m personally glad to see any union pressure working.

                  • greywarshark

                    I guess we are all a bit crooked Ad. A majority of NZs have supported governments that won’t do the right thing for decades. Why start pointing all your fingers at Maori corporates if they are more RW than you think they should be. There are plenty of other entities for each finger if you are looking to blame.

                    It really is more on a par with all the white wealthy with their fingers on the tips of the levers that go down to their pliant eager CEOs and managers amassing their own assets. That is a different kettle of fish and structural.

                    • marty mars

                      Yes ad forgets that this is actually an IWI organisation NOT a corporate. The subtleties of that will be lost on ad but for Iwi members it means a lot, like everything.

                    • Ad

                      There’s no shield either under law or in our society from criticism of a corporate entity – no matter where they are from. And there’s only one owner being pointed at here, by Maori owners themselves as the quote at 19 shows.

                      There’s a whole post by itself on why Maori-owned corporate entities might have different accountabilities to any other corporation, but like I said it’s pretty philosophical.

                      Meantime, GoBus is owned by a particular bunch, and as the quote given at 19 points out, it is the Maori Chiefs and Runanga executives themselves who are fronting that corporation. And good on them.

                    • Ad

                      Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu is the sole Trustee of the Ngāi Tahu Charitable Trust which in turn owns and operates Ngāi Tahu Holdings Corporation Ltd.

                      Similar to Te Arataura for Tanui Holdings.

                      Plenty of others use such tax efficient structures.
                      Nothing wrong with it.

                    • marty mars

                      What has that to do with anything?

                      The Iwi is an organisation for Iwi members which also has corporate and commercial arms – big deal, you can read a website.

                      The accountabilities of the Iwi organisation are to Iwi members.

                      It’s pretty basic stuff – I surprised you are struggling with this neophyte level of understanding – maybe you’re not as bright as you think you are.

                    • greywarshark

                      marty mars
                      Are you saying that unions need to go direct to iwi members if the drivers want a fair deal? The problem with making systems work is that if something is everybody’s responsibility, then nobody feels they personally must do something.

                      So iwi appoint somebody to act on their behalf so they don’t have to be consulted about everything and spend much of their time in meetings and discussions and getting briefed on the facts.

                      Pointing out who are the participants in Maori organisations doesn’t indicate how those organisations set up their paths to decision making. Those paths, and the quality and fairness of the decisions made are of importance in this discussion.

        • Gabby

          Sure looks like it worked marty.

          • marty mars

            good then maybe the bashing of iwi will stop but i doubt that favorite sport of tauiwi will go away soon.

          • McFlock

            Looks to me like the union struck for a living wage, gobus did a lockout, and now everyone’s back to work and the owners would really love to pay drivers fairly but haven’t actually committed to it.

            How is that a win?

            • Ad

              There is no strike action any more and people are talking – and the corporation has set a really clear expectation in public. That’s not a total win but it’s great start.

              • McFlock

                It’s basically the situation that existed before the strike was announced – everyone’s in work, and gee willickers we’d love to give you more money sometime whenever we can afford it ourselves…

      • Cinny 19.1.2

        the Maori owners.

    • patricia bremner 19.2

      Now that is people power. They have to DO what they say and not try lip service.

      We need to support participating employers employees and unions working towards providing a living wage.

      We need to avoid the contracting out to the lowest tender!!
      These are often achieved through low pay and poor maintenance of old buses.

  17. Sabine 20

    Not sure if anyone ever saw this movie, but as always with the good stuff, it might get lost in the mediocre flood.

    la belle verte

    a french movie about how things could be, how they were, still are, bref, a very french movie.
    superb acting by all without exception
    it is subtitled, it is suitable for 3-99+ years of age


    enjoy a rainy day:)

  18. joe90 21


    There's been a lot of talk about the missionary killed by the natives of North Sentinel Island. They're probably so aggressive because of this weirdo, Maurice Vidal Portman. So here's a big thread about this creep and some facts from my decade-long obsession with the island. pic.twitter.com/rfOVjfU2ZY— Respectable Lawyer (@RespectableLaw) November 23, 2018


    • greywarshark 21.1

      Thanks Joe90 Knowledge of deep history explains much but then still doesn’t explain how what happened could happen. Are we mad all the time with noticeable peaks, or do we go through cycles?

      When you look up King Leopold of Belgium and go into what the bastard did in the Congo, and what Africa has had to put up with from whites, and rom each other, you need to wash your mind out. So I suggest that everyone sit down and slow their minds and read the quaint Alexander McCall Smith stories about Botswana and the No 1 Ladies Detective Agency set there. The stories are good, and slow, and he brings philosophical matters into them that he develops interestingly. And they leave one feeling better about Africa, and make a change from hearing about the travesty of civilisation so often told.

      You could buy a copy for buy now $60 on Trademe – of 1993 book by Auckland historian Dick Scott, Would A Good Man Die? Niue Island, New Zealand and the late Mr Larsen – about NZs shame at playing colonial master and the way that NZs paid no attention to the treatment of the islanders and then bloodthirstily wanted them punished by hanging.
      Story on NZ Herald.

    • WeTheBleeple 21.2

      I tried to bring good christian teachings to my village.

      Things like not being racist and sexist.

      Their eyes killed me with arrows. Their barbs never stopped.

  19. cleangreen 23

    No Ad, refer to Ad 13.1

    Water is only one of four tenants they are placing inside the new “Local governance for community well-being policy” do you see that?


    “With the reintroduction of the four well-beings and commitment to a Wellbeing Budget 2019″,

    Wellbeig is a large target we can use to point to our deep held serious environmental issues”.

    We see this as a win.

    Local governance for community well-being
    “With the reintroduction of the four well-beings and commitment to a Wellbeing Budget 2019”, there is an opportunity to harness local government’s strengths and proximity to its communities and explore how central and local government can align its well-being objectives, frameworks and measures.

  20. Sabine 24

    there is something going on in France and else where in europe

    le mouvement gilet jaune……

    gilet jaune = the hiz viz vest one has to have in the car at all times, unless worn.

    It is a european wide strike, and last count was about 3 million people on strike across Potugal, France, Italia, Germany, Hungry and Bulgary according to these guys here https://www.facebook.com/ResistanceNice

    not quite sure if it is a spontanious uprising of people or the beginning of a general strike across europe, but its been going on for a while now and at least in france it seems to start having an impact.


    • Cinny 24.1

      Sabine, is it the full price for France, that some there are striking about?

      Saw this piece on the news the other day….

      Protests against soaring fuel prices in Reunion Island have shut down much of the French territory.

      The government cancelled all flights, closed schools and suspended public transport.

      Several police personnel and protesters were injured and more than 100 people have been arrested.

      Demonstrators on the island in the Indian Ocean say it’s about much more than the cost of filling up the tank.


      • Sabine 24.1.1

        I think we can not really just put it on one thing. The taxes on gasoline are literally just the last drop. I am not sure if you could classify a strike or an uprising.

        when we are forced to give up the treats of civilization we will not do so quietly. 🙂 it is peaceful atm, to there is that.

  21. Draco T Bastard 25

    Watch: London police knock over moped thieves to reduce crime (Auto-play video the effing morons)

    Knocking moped thieves off their bikes, even during high-speed chases, is the newest “hardline” strategy to reduce moped crime in London.

    A “tactical contact” approach will now be used by Scotland Yard officers, according to Commander Amanda Pearson, who said it was necessary to stop dangerous chases and arrest suspects.

    I’m in two minds about it.

    It’s dangerous and may hurt someone.

    The crims have probably already hurt several people.

    • Chris T 25.1

      Was the same really

      Thought it was pretty full on at first, but then thought how many elderly, kids, generally vulnerable people they have sent sprawling.

    • WeTheBleeple 25.2

      This ‘(Auto-play video the effing morons)’

      What do you mean?

      • Draco T Bastard 25.2.1

        Page has auto play videos. It even automatically goes on to the next.

        This chews up bandwidth which is a concern for limited bandwidth plans/devises and can make a lot of irritating noise if you’re not expecting it.

  22. joe90 26

    The Base … rings a bell….

    A neo-Nazi who goes by the alias Norman Spear has launched a project to unify online fascists and link that vast coalition of individuals into a network training new soldiers for a so-called forthcoming “race war.”

    Spear, who claims to be an Iraq and Afghan war veteran, is a self-proclaimed white nationalist with a significant online following. His latest act involves bringing neo-Nazis together, regardless of affiliation and ideology, into a militant fascist umbrella organization. His tool for doing this? A social network he calls “The Base,” which is already organizing across the US and abroad, specifically geared toward partaking in terrorism.


  23. cleangreen 27

    I heard on bbc news;


    Truckies and farmers in France want diesel tax dropped!!!!!

    So it appears that they want to keep using ‘dirty diesel to pollute planet’ eh?


  24. eco maori 28

    Kia ora R&R I totally agree with that statement we need to go back to reusable glass bottles for all liquid products that’s what we did 30 od years ago.
    Glass and aluminum are good choices
    Consumer products are that cheap and unreliable the only last 3 to 5 years and you throw it away and buy a new one.
    Yes the plastic bag banning single use super market bag’s is just the start to changing our use of plastic or and waste all waste needs to be minimized.
    Ka kite ano P.S really good topic there is a lot of good information on what one can recycle the time seem out.

  25. eco maori 29

    Kia ora The Hui It is a shame that Kura has been treated badly buy the police who only admit they are wrong went one has spent thousands of dollars in court or else Kura would have a criminal charges.
    Wow thats higher than % of Maori In Jail the amount of Maori Tamariki in the state care are 70 % what a mess those poor tamariki .Thanks to Ngai tahu for taking a leading role in looking after there tamariki in state care Mana Wahine ka pai.
    The Toi Whenua whano are classic example of how the state have rode roughshod over Te tangata whenua human rights its good that the government has apologized to the guys and whano for been taken off there father and put into state abuse/care just because there mother died ka pai Ka kite ano

  26. eco maori 30

    Eco Maori has thought about the Kura case on The hui this morning and the conclusion I come to is the other driver was at fault and that the cop who did the investigation had links to the driver of the Peugeot an played his cover card for his M8
    1 The way they treat maori deep down south I have experienced this phobia to maori every time I have been there and had anything to do with these European people down south it has had a negative out come for Eco Maori.
    2 The other Car in the crash was a Peugeot no many maori drive these cars not enough room for the Mokopunas.
    3 Why did the Cop wait till 5 days before the statute of limitations was up before he laid charges against Kura ?????. So there would be no chance of charging / investigating the other driver of the Peugeot in the accident by the time Kura got the correct ruling of not being the main cause of the accident .
    5 What must be most worrying however are the retrospective powers John Key has rammed through Parliament to give the cops massive search and surveillance powers that allow them to bug legally privileged conversations, break into your house and plant spy cameras without you knowing, warrantless search orders and they can trigger these powers by linking 3 people who know each other.

    Remember, this is the same Police force who are forcing companies to hand over information about you without you knowing, and then those companies punish you for it.{ Banks }

    We are becoming less of a democratic state and more a functioning Police state.
    6https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/77844567/police-officers-convicted-of-52-crimes-in-three-years Coverups-copouts will be a good read to shine a light on this topic ANA TO KAI Ka kite ano links below




  27. eco maori 31

    Ka pai

    All Blacks captain Kieran Read leads the haka. Credits: Sky Sports

    For the first time in his career, captain Kieran Read has had the privilege of leading the All Blacks’ haka before their match against Italy in Rome.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2018/11/all-blacks-vs-italy-why-kieran-read-led-the-ka-mate-haka.html He is a good leader Ka kite ano

  28. eco maori 32

    I see our Australian cousin can see past the ————- propaganda served up by the liberals neo in the Victorian state elections Ka pai I know that Labour has pushed to mitigate Human Caused Climate Change .

    Labor has won a stunning victory in Victoria, with the premier, Daniel Andrews, saying voters have rejected “fear and division”.
    The Liberal leader, Matthew Guy, says it’s time for “unity” within his party, amid claims of internal strife that are said to have plagued its campaign.
    The Greens had a disappointing night following a disastrous campaign.

    And with that, I will leave you. link below.

  29. eco maori 33

    Dont let the carbon baron make a mess of our grandchildrens future ka kite ano.

  30. eco maori 34

    Hopefully Labour will win the national elections in may in Australia some one going to be lonely Ka kite ano.

  31. eco maori 35

    The Democrat capitalist are running scare of all the Democrat /Socialist who got elected during there American midterm elections Kia kaha minority cultures and Mana wahine .
    Why do I say the capitalist are scared well they are trying to float a toilet that has already sunk because of all the stuff that is weighing down her toilet I see they are trying to float tony blair toilet to desperate fools they gave Berni Sanders a true Socialist a under arm bowl to clear the way for shillary and even now they can not see the WRITING ON THE WALL that to win the next American president election they have to embrace the socialist don’t be scare we will treat you better than you have treated us we are socialist we care about Equality and a future for the Grandchildren.
    If the Democrats want to win they have to work with each other and not against each other the goals are the same slow climate change the socialist will have ladys vote youth vote and minority cultures vote join them all together and you will have a unstoppable force for good .links below
    Ka kite ano

    https://www.euronews.com/2018/11/23/hillary-clinton-tells-europe-to-get-a-hold-on-migration-to-halt-rise-in-populism she is trying to educate Europe she was part of cause of the refuge crisis around Papatuanuku

  32. eco maori 36

    The neo Liberal capitalist of the world have a vale of bribes lies and money covering our Australians cousins eyes .The Australians have all these huge carbon exporting company’s .Senate inquiry told zero tax or royalties paid on Australia’s biggest new gas projects the Australian environment is going to degrade all for what to make ultra wealthy people even more billions and in the process turn our grandchildren future into a mess
    Woodside applies to build big-polluting LNG plant – with no emissions plan
    Western Australian Browse project could emit more than 200m tonnes of CO2
    “It’s incredible to think the state government would consider a further expansion of what is an incredibly dirty source of gas at a time when the federal Labor party is proposing ambitious climate targets,” he said. “Fracking and LNG developments are going to put those targets out of reach.” lucky Eco Maori skims through the comments on story’s that interest me as I would never have seen this story that has a cloak of money hiding the facts on big carbon paying very little tax.



  33. eco maori 37

    Kia ora Newshub yes education is need on man made weed its a poison if we educate people about all the harm it does they will be less likely to us the crap.
    Wow thats heaps of rain in Auckland in one hour 30mls and its heading this way .
    That was brave alright Robert Nickle fighting to save 60.000 refugees against huge odds good story its cool that they confirmed there efforts.
    O no not the cheating American Palino team is himself first and for most that toilet has sunk.
    Ka kite ano P.S I posted a few post today

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