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Open mike 24/01/2010

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 24th, 2010 - 18 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Topics of interest, announcements, general discussion. The usual rules apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

18 comments on “Open mike 24/01/2010 ”

  1. Santi 1

    What has happenned between Farrar and Hooton?
    The latter just wrote an article in the NBR accusing Farrrar’s Curia company of getting rich through government contracts. Crony capitalism?

    It could explain why Farrar never opposes anything that National does. He is a good lackey and servant of his Beehive master.

    • IrishBill 1.1

      Hmm. I may have to buy a copy of NBR. For the record none of the Standard writers I know have anything to do with UMR. In fact I’ve previously recommended Labour find a new company for its focus group testing.

      • BLiP 1.1.1

        Not worth the money, mate. The comment comes towards the end of a typical Hooton piece of verbal onanism about missed economic opportunities over the last decade and the need for this government to, basically, grow a pair and do what he says. The one interesting point he makes is that the polling companies have made a fortune off the politicians as each party prefers polling to policy implementation.

        A mindset has developed in the political and media class that good policy is necessarily anathema to good politics. If anything, it is embedded even more deeply in the Key Government than it was in Helen Clark’s.

        Labour’s pollsters at UMR and National’s at Curia have become rich but at the expense of everyone else.

        . . . and so on.

  2. Dave Farrar has been a National Party guy since forever. IIRC he used to work in Parliament in Bolger’s office when Bolger was PM. That said, Farrar isn’t an extremist…..which isn’t to say he isn’t painfully one-eyed most of the time.

  3. gitmo 3

    Not often I’m left speechless


    Can someone please reassure me that the jakarta globe is actually just a piss take along the lines of the Sunday sport in the UK and that Mahathir Mohamad is not actually Trav in disguise.

    • felix 3.1


      “If they can make Avatar, they can make anything”

      I generally stay away from the topic if I can as I don’t find most of the discussion particularly useful, but I’ve got to say that of all the arguments suggesting the presence of shenanigans on 11/9 (yeah that’s right), some of which hold more water than others, this has to be the most demented, delusional, downright dumb bit of reasoning I’ve heard.

      That assclown musta been horrified when Star Wars was released eh?

      • gitmo 3.1.1

        Have a read of the comments at the bottom….. makes some of our trolling look very mild, I almost peed my pants laughing at some of the commentary.

        • travellerev


          The truth movement generally stays well clear of remarks such as made by Mr Mahathir.

          All we want is a new and independent investigation as to why three steel framed buildings could collapse into a pyroclastic flow at freefall speed hours after two of them were hit by two planes.

          We would also like to have an investigation into why Nano thermite (Only produced in a high security military facility in the US) was present in several unconnected and well documented samples of WTC dust, who had access to the buildings and would have been in a position to place the explosives in the buildings and why after all the alleged failings on that fateful day not a single person has been held responsible for this gross example of incompetence.

          In other words, rather than theorise we have questions based on evidence which if anything disproves the official “theory”.

          Not unreasonable, wouldn’t you say?

          Especially since the identity of the “alleged” hijackers had been established more than a year before the attacks.

          Why? Because as a result of the attacks two wars were started, millions of people perished, Civil liberties were eroded and because to date we have not had a single shred of evidence that the official story is true.

          Why discuss it on blogs and on the streets to this day?

          Because unless we as a people as these questions and demand answers from our leaders we will continue to be dragged into wars with people who have done us no harm and just want to be left alone, soldiers will keep killing and dying, first responders will be left with no help and we will see a further erosion of our liberties and basic human rights, progress into fascism and descent into a suffering this word has never seen before.

          And by the way Gitmo, thanks for openly admitting that you are trolling. Next time perhaps you will be so kind as to actually open some of the links to find out what’s out there.

    • bill 3.2

      Bear in mind that Mahathir Mohamad is a very unpopular guy with Washington and pro-western leaders throughout the region.

      While I’m not saying that he didn’t say those things, I’m very suspicious. The ‘local media’ that is quoted from and claimed as the original source of all the quoted text is not named for instance, so no checking veracity or context. And there is every reason for some to do a hatchet job on this guy.

  4. Jim in Tokyo 4

    Compare and contrast!

    Remarkable how different the discourses regarding tax reform across the Tasman are: “The report opens with a chapter that explains that while the tax system is performing well, it will be severely tested by the ageing population and a growing shortage of workers.”

    Proposals may include jacking up mineral royalties or imposing a 40% resource tax on mining profit.

    Also of note – looks like the Henry review may propose leaving the corporate rate alone, as “the global financial crisis had blunted the prospect of overseas tax competition.”

    • Descendant Of Smith 4.1

      There seems to be a complete lack of planning around the aging population in this country. Although Labour made provision for the super payments they are also guilty.

      Given the baby boomers start turning 65 this year I would have thought there had been much more discourse and research about aspects such as:

      1. Do we we to start training people up to provide care and from when
      2. Is there a need for increased residential care , particularly in small towns
      3. Is it likely that people who have moved to the cities to work will return to the provinces to retire
      4. What type of jobs are people intending to retire from and when – sequencing seems quite important to plan training and work force needs
      5. Instead of building little enclaves on the outskirts of town are we better off building retirement areas close to town and bulldozing older rental properties
      6. What will we do with our stock of 3 and 4 bedroom homes
      7. Do we need some employment polices that may allow people longer at a reduced productivity rate
      8. How many of are young skilled people will be in demand from other OECD countries with the same problem
      9. What will happen 20 – 30 years later when these people will be dead.

      and lots lots more.

      The cynic in me says that the reason there isn’t this discourse and planning is that the corporates don’t want it. It’s reduce tax, maximise profit, rape and pillage the country and abandon NZ when it all becomes too much. I don’t actually believe that but I struggle to see why there is such a lack of planning at either government or council level

      The thing is is that the aging population is going to happen regardless of economic or environmental conditions, government policy, business capability or anything else you care to name. It’s pretty much an immovable object.

      • prism 4.1.1

        Good questions. Time to get started on this subject but NZ politicians like unavoidable deadlines to prompt serious social policy. Our motto – She’ll be right will carry us through. Wait until the situation is near critical. (Don’t ever let us get nuclear power plants). At the end of the day we can always cut down on social services for those in difficult circumstances like they do in India and the USA then we can allocate money to the more socially acceptable ageing population.

        (I understand in USA there are low-cost living townships of people in straitened circumstances. Hail the enlightened, educated modern state and its principles and see the rise of the wild west and the rule of the gun.)

      • mickysavage 4.1.2

        There seems to be a complete lack of planning around the aging population in this country. Although Labour made provision for the super payments they are also guilty.

        Well they did introduce the Cullen Fund, Kiwisaver and paid off crown debt. And back in the 1970s there was the Douglas super fund, possibly the last good thing that he did but it was important.

        Labour had a plan and talked about the issues. This current bunch do not have the foggiest.

        • Draco T Bastard

          The present bunch will leave it to market failure and then say that the disaster that the community will have to deal with wasn’t their fault.

        • Steve Withers

          Have to agree with you, MS. But it’s probably worthwhile noting that they are representative of the people who vote for them: “not the foggiest”….and full of belief, preconceptions that are supposed to substitute for thought and evidence.

  5. Draco T Bastard 5

    The Costs of Community
    Secret Handshakes

    More generally, of course, that’s what happened to community in America. The suburbanization of the country after the Second World War has many aspects, but one of the most important was a deliberate flight from community. A great many people who had grown up in compact urban neighborhoods or small towns fled to the anonymity of the suburbs just as quickly as they could, because in their eyes, the costs of community made it more of a burden than a benefit.

    I’ve quoted a paragraph from the second link but both are about the same thing. The costs that are a part of living within a community. Community does cost and it costs a lot but we can’t without it. None of us, individually, are strong enough to stand alone. It is only through community that we are able to prosper at all. Our community, ATM, is the entire country and it costs to run a country. Continued tax decreases won’t bring more prosperity – it will bring collapse as essential community services disappear due to lack of funding.

    • RedLogix 5.1

      I keep forgetting that Greer is one of the ‘must reads’. Now properly bookmarked… tnx.

  6. prism 6

    That Greer article on Community handshakes DTB is right on. Very thought-making – I have been thinking all this time that surely we would soon get back to a better balanced community which runs better and more peacefully because I thought this is what everyone says they want.

    But that bit about gazing our the window and shuffling (away) from real needs of people in community and real action is a fact that I’ve noticed borer-chewing at the structure of healthy society. Borer can go on for quite a while hardly noticed, but their small attacks have to be dealt with eventually before they spoil the strength of the house. Community good can be warmly discussed but public money spending is what raises the passions and response of general citizens.

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