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Open mike 24/03/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:45 am, March 24th, 2014 - 171 comments
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openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

171 comments on “Open mike 24/03/2014 ”

  1. amirite 1

    Another sycophantic article in Shonkey’s Daily Rag today:


    • Tigger 1.1

      He needs some new material, those are awful.

    • Paul 1.2

      You beat me to it.
      As Chomsky said.
      “Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media.”
      The Herald ..paid puppet and poodle of corporate interests.

    • Rosie 1.3


      “You can now convert New Zealand dollars into renminbi, if you are of such a mind to do so. So, life after politics, I might go back to the foreign exchange markets and smack around the renminbi. Maybe not.”

      Well, thats always been on the cards hasn’t it. Probably not joking about that one. With a good effort from the the Left and the voting public his wish may be granted after 20th September.

  2. Rosie 2

    phillip ure. You do know I was joking about the “phil n’ bad” show don’t you? You went and put on an evening show last night! I told you I was busy with Charlie Brooker!

    bad12: glad you finally got that wind up toy you wanted as a child 🙂

    • well..you’ll probably be pleased to know that the show is over..

      • Rosie 2.1.1

        for how long?…………………

      • Chooky 2.1.2

        Hi Phil and bad 12 …I always enjoy reading your comments( together or individually)…very entertaining and informative…feel blinded by your knowledge and eloquence too…so keep going as far as i am concerned ( keep the show going!)

        btw Phil….there was a programme yesterday on Buddhism and drugs which you may be interested in…someone said drug addicts are often very sensitive intelligent people who use drugs to cope with the everyday rough reality of this world ….anyway I thought of you as i listened and just in case you didnt hear it


        SUNDAY, 23 MARCH 2014
        NavachittaMany very successful addiction recovery programmes begin from a foundation in faith or spirituality. This can prove to be a barrier for non-believers. Justin explores an alternative option: recovering from addiction with help from the Buddha.
        Navachitta is an ordained member of the Triratna Buddhist Community and leads the Buddhist Recovery Network at the Auckland Buddhist Centre.
        Photo: Navachitta, courtesy of the Auckland Buddhist Centre.

        Spiritual Outlook for 23 March 2014 ( 24′ 45″ )
        17:06 In Spiritual Outlook this week; recovering from addiction with help from the Buddha.

        • phillip ure

          yeah chooky..i heard it..

          .and wd recommend people listen to it on the rnz website..

          ..it was one of the more intelligent commentaries i have heard..on that topic..

          • Chooky

            …interesting interview….first time I have become aware of this doctor…he deserves to be heard!…anyone who tries to shut him up is sus imo


            • Naturesong

              Dr Andrew Wakefield does seem to have blotted his copybook though. On 24 May 2010 he was struck off the United Kingdom medical register.

              That said, I would tend to err on the side of caution and ensure that any vaccinations to my children (should I produce any) be administered separately rather than as a combined injection.

              • Chooky

                @Naturesong…that is what he wanted …separate vaccinations…and an open hearing

                …is it true for example that vaccinating companies were given indemnity from prosecution if there were side effects by the British government?…is it true that vaccinations that had been discontinued other countries ( Canada , Japan)because of side effects eg meningitis ….were used in Britain?…(and against the recommendations of the vaccinating company!)……is it true that they were then discontinued due to the same side effects in Britain and then shipped off to Brazil?….where there was subsequently an epidemic of meningitis?

                struck off by the UK medical register?….this raises a lot of questions in my mind…why?…was pressure brought to bear by the British Govt?..eg. .it does not necessarily mean Dr Wakefield “blotted his copybook”…it may mean the UK medical establishment blotted their copy book!…..eg.we all know that the British govt under Tony Blair blotted its copybook over the reasons for the war in Iraq

                Time will tell on this issue and the truth will out eventually with more REAL scientific knowledge about vaccination and the human immune system…and side effects and long term effects…In the meantime I am keeping an open mind and i am very suspicious of zealots who wish to close it on the likes of Andrew Wakefield.

                Personally if I had my time again I would listen to my doctor and NOT get my kids vaccinated

              • miravox

                I saw a doco on him – must have been around 2001-02 in the UK. It detailed his poor research practices – was exposed by his student assistant.

                The doco also detailed his patent/trademark or some such for a single vaccine rather than the MMR triple as a reason for him discrediting the MMR vaccine. The man should be in prison rather than (at the time) making a fortune on the medical conference circuit in the US. A fraud and the very person who, for me, established the idea of that bad research practice and pharma fraud can exist (I should maybe thank him, but won’t – he’s caused way too much damage). Strange that some holistic healing people are followers. They have a false prophet and should read up about the fraudulent research. Getting hold of the doco that exposed him would be well worth their time, imo

                /end rant

                • Chooky

                  …well according to him …if you have watched the utube above ….that is false that he wanted to set up his own vaccination company……he was discredited and framed by a journalist with no medical background…there were a number of lies put about by that journalist….certainly Wakefield is far better educated as a specialist in bowel problems than many of his so -called critics…and it would seem some of his colleagues were also highly trained.

                  ….it is a topsy turvey old world , particularly where big business gets involved in health and there are billions to be made with a captive compliant recipient population

                  No not just “holist healing people” who have an open mind on the efficacy of all vaccinations……ordinary medical doctors as well….so not so strange after-all…

                  • miravox

                    info about the original documentary here

                    His vaccination company? Yeah he’s spent long time scamming for his share of pharma profits

                    • Chooky

                      how do you know the original documentary is not some govt paid hack journalist make up?( Wakefield denies those accusations)

                      .. there was a lot of shit discrediting those British scientists who opposed the war in Iraq too

                      …and scientists who pointed out the dangers of the cigarette industry


                      ……..have you watched the link i put up to hear Wakefield’s side of the story….?

                    • northshoredoc

                      Wakefield is guilty of scientific fraud and falsifying the medical reports of children.

                      ‘Aided and abetted by useful idiots in the media, by British newspapers and other media that sensationalized the story, and the antivaccine movement, which hailed Wakefield as a hero, Wakefield managed to drive MMR vaccination rates in the U.K. below the level of herd immunity, from 93% to 75% (and as low as 50% in some parts of London). As a result Wakefield has been frequently sarcastically “thanked” for his leadership role in bringing the measles back to the U.K. to the point where, fourteen years after measles had been declared under control in the U.K., it was in 2008 declared endemic again.”

                    • miravox

                      Have i seen his rebuttal? Yes. Plus I’m not new to this story. , I first saw and read of it more than 10 years ago while living in the Uk. I remember the fear from parents and was there when the story of falsified research broke. Have you read/watched the original expose? If not, where is your open mind? Have you seen the invasive medical tests he put those kids through?

                      Sorry for being blunt but seriously you are doing the cause of questioning conventional medical practise a complete disservice by promoting this man. Do yourself a favour and find someone more credible. he was very much the establishment at the time and has been thoroughly discredited by great investigative journalism, not some government plot.

            • northshoredoc

              Andrew Wakefield is guilty of scientific fraud and falsifying the medical reports of children.

            • McFlock


              Wakefield is literally the only guy on the planet to make a link between a particular vaccine and autism.

              Is focus of global anti-vac crowd and associated nutbars.

              Gets denounced as a fraud with a barrow to push.

              You hear from anti-vac crowd about vaccines being bad .

              You suddenly discover Wakefield (really? Only now?).

              Wakefield reinforces your belief that vaccines are bad.

              Wakefield is credible to you because “big pharma” must be conspiring against him, because why else would he be called a fraud?

              • Chooky

                @ McFlock

                Yes NOW is the first time i have discovered Wakefield …believe it or not!…and as you are questioning my integrity….I wasnt actually hunting for Wakefield or anything on vaccinations…..rather how to help an elderly person cope with MRSA …this led me to Dr Mercola’s site where I saw the Wakefield interview

                ….and quite frankly I find Wakefield credible!….he doesn’t reinforce my opinion that ALL vaccines are “bad”, as you suggest ….but that an OPEN MIND mind must be kept on vaccines…especially side effects and long term effects…and especially as it is a multi-billion dollar business….and especially as pressure is being applied to all parents to vaccinate their children for the ‘good of herd immunity’

                …once upon a time i would have thought the anti-vaccine “Crowd” were the ones with a bee- in- their- bonnet….but no longer !….Believe it or not my interest in this issue has been piqued by the attitudes of some people on this site …who I believe do not have an open mind at all…but who have a vested interest in the vaccination industry and are rather nasty when their beliefs are challenged…i dont like your insinuations!

                • McFlock

                  I wasn’t questioning your integrity, merely your competence.

                  • northshoredoc

                    There’s no question as to their competence.

                  • Chooky


                    hopefully people will watch this interview from beginning to end and make up their own minds where they stand based on the evidence…and particularly if they have children


                    • McFlock


                      That demonstration of your complete comprehension incompetence merely underlines the idiocy of anyone who takes their medical advice from you.
                      Have fun..

                    • northshoredoc

                      “…..hopefully people will watch this interview from beginning to end and make up their own minds where they stand based on the evidence…and particularly if they have children..”

                      Hopefully people will also look at the credentials of the two persons in the video you link to.



                    • miravox

                      “hopefully people will watch this interview from beginning to end and make up their own minds where they stand based on the evidence”

                      Hopefully people will also click in the links describing the investigation into the work of Mr Wakefield and the fall-out from it.

                      To repeat…


                      I watched your video, will you read my link?

                      If you want to talk about close-minded – then the former Dr Wakefield is just the ticket. He got research results that didn’t match his research question so created fraudulent results. Why? professional arrogance? unshakeable belief in his hypothesis? As he says, it was nothing to do with his tie up with class-action lawsuits or his alternative patent that he denies he wanted to make a pharma fortune from

                      Chooky, you find this man credible:

                      His research assistant didn’t find him credible and was so concerned he blew the whistle at the risk of his own research and medical career

                      A high court judge didn’t find Wakefield credible when he refused to allow him to gag the investigation

                      The Times didn’t find him credible when they reviewed and printed the investigation

                      Channel 4 didn’t find him credible when it aired the documentary exposing him

                      The Lancet didn’t find him credible, however much the editors wanted to, when it embarrassingly retracted his research articles

                      The Medical Council didn’t find him credible when it struck him off

                      His business partner didn’t find him credible when he renounced Wakefield’s work and withdrew from their shared business activities

                      Ben Goldacre didn’t when he used Wakefield’s research as a case in point for his chapter in his book ‘Bad Science’ detailing public health scares due to media reporting of bad research (Goldsmith is an equal opportunity critic – his 2012 book is Bad Pharma).

                      However you find him credible. This is beyond my ability to understand*

                      *and I do understand perfectly well that people can have their credibility ruined by the powers that be – Dr David Kelly the most obvious of among many, imo – Wakefield is not fit to be considered in the same space of injustice.

                    • Chooky

                      @Mirovax…read your links……and you find Brian Deer the ( non medically trained) journalist credible?!…two of your three links are are to Brian Deer’s home site !

                      ….yes I do find Andrew Wakefield ( a bowel specialist…with 5+ 8 years medical training ) credible as does Dr Mercola ( whom I also find credible)…and I find what Wakefield has to say is very different from what he is accused of…i also know he is up against a multi- billion dollar business

                      ….more importantly i dont find blanket vaccinations of whole populations for common childhood viruses credible ( nor do many others and not a few doctors)…especially when they are in combined jabs like MMR and especially when they often dont last long and especially when they give the little kid the very thing they are supposed to be protecting them from eg serious mumps after getting the MMR vaccination and bad whooping cough which went on for weeks if not months after getting the whooping cough vaccination ( but then again I am a mere parent, so i am probably “incompetent” and my observations fraudulent …or worse I am a liar like Dr. Wakefield)

                      ….i also think it entirely credible that meningitis outbreaks have been a consequence of the mumps component of MMR vaccinations( there were no meningitis outbreaks when i was a kid nor any autism that i remember)…. and entirely credible that autism can be linked to gut problems which can cause neurological problems….if some medical specialists want to question the MMR /measles vaccine and investigate its side effects on the gut, based on the reports of parents then this is fine by me!

                      conclusion: think carefully about vaccinations and be very careful about the doctor you choose….but thankfully some are fantastic…i just wish i had listened to mine

                    • miravox

                      I am absolutely not getting into a vaccination debate with you. As a mere parent I stand with the list of people who find Mr Wakefield’s assertions not credible.

                      Brian Deer’s links are used because he led the research!

                      Once again, especially if you have read up on the investigation, I simply do not understand how you can use this man as a credible face for asserting your view on vaccinations. As per my comments above – you’d be best to find someone else without the history. This is all I was attempting to communicate.

                      To quote you…

                      it is a topsy turvey old world , particularly where big business gets involved in health and there are billions to be made with a captive compliant recipient population

                      This applies to Mr Wakefield and his ‘research’ – in spades.

                    • Chooky

                      @ mirovax

                      I really cant be bothered continuing with this discussion, because it would seem i am arguing with people who have made up their minds …also I am no expert ( as McFlock and Northshoredoctor have kindly pointed out)

                      …but it would seem that Dr Andrew Wakefield is not the only medical expert.. or for that matter legal expert or biochemistry expert with very serious concerns about the multi billion dollar vaccine industry in cahoots with governments which is injuring children ( that is an understatement)

                      …Wakefield is just one of many critics ! …so the attacks made on him to discredit him, unrelentingly, by you and others on this site are rather pointless imo….given the evidence in this recent film…..which is very very sobering


                      ‘Silent Epidemic- Untold Story of Vaccines” (October 2013)

                    • northshoredoc

                      “EVERY NEW PARENT SHOULD WATCH THIS!”

                      ‘Silent Epidemic- Untold Story of Vaccines” (October 2013)”

                      Only if they are also aware of the producers credentials.


                      And the main interviewees credentials.


                    • Chooky


                      …pretty damning nevertheless and choc full of experts ….from immunologists to lawyers to biochemists to medics to medical journalists ….and with reference to the media which is frequently into disinformation and cover up ….also reference to the editor of a prestigious New England (?) medical journal who has resigned because she says a medical research publishing which has integrity has become impossible (surely you are not suggesting all these experts are phoney?)

                      …how can you discount these experts!?….really !…..the word contempt is beginning to come to mind….

                      imo this scandal has the potential to disastrously bring down the credibility of the medical profession

                    • locus

                      @ Chooky

                      you absolutely must read this


                    • northshoredoc


                      “…how can you discount these experts!?….really !…..the word contempt is beginning to come to mind….”

                      Because they are proven frauds who prey on the frightened and uneducated with misleading, selective and on occasion downright fraudulent information.

                      “imo this scandal has the potential to disastrously bring down the credibility of the medical profession”

                      Well, in my opinion frauds such as those you repeatedly rely upon for your information are the ones who bring down the credibility of the medical and other associated professions through their disgraceful behaviour.

                      Chooky I’m pretty sure everyone who has read your comments on immunisation can see where you sympathies lie, however as you have commented you are by no means an expert in the area of medicine or immunisation. I would encourage everyone to approach the question of vaccination with an open mind and see where the bulk of the expert opinion lies.

                      Meanwhile the Auckland measles outbreak continues with those unvaccinated students at WBHS having to be excluded from school for another couple of weeks.


    • bad12 2.2

      Lolz Rosie, i think the spring was faulty at the point of manufacture, or, did i really wind it up too much???…

      • Rosie 2.2.1

        lets find out bad………………The next episode seems to be on hold due to production issues.

        • bad12

          Lolz Rosie, is Phillip ‘simpering’, have to go on hold for a while myself this morning, a little bit of face to face politicing is calling…

  3. Tigger 3

    Government Minister has extra marital affair with lobbyist who works for business that has had easy regulatory ride from this administration. Key clearly doesn’t know as he’s kicked out Worth for similar. Hope he finds out before the press decide to out it.

    • karol 3.1

      I do love a mystery. Gonna give us any clues to work from?

      • Tigger 3.1.1

        I’d love to shout it to the Sky, Karol, but I haven’t got hard evidence and said Minister would simply deny it. I couldn’t care about the sex, it’s the sex with a lobbyist who is getting a free ride (pun intended) that feels , well it feels like justice isn’t being done.

        • Tracey

          how do you know if you have no hard evidence?

        • bad12

          Tigger, if you havn’t got ‘hard evidence’ but ‘know’ something is happening that has obviously lead to conflicts of interest then why don’t you do the logical thing and play sleuth, a good camera helps, to obtain the evidence,

          Other than that what you say is to be tossed in the ‘not another one’ draw as bullshit…

    • Naturesong 3.2

      Ouch, I suspect John Key may regret opening up that top drawer of his.

      When you decide to play that sort of dirty politics you really need to know where all the bodies are buried, not just those of your opponent.

    • Tracey 3.3

      just name him if you are so sure.

      • Tigger 3.3.1

        ‘Him’? That’s a sexist assumption, Tracey.

        • Tracey

          Are you saying the two parties are women?

          • Stephanie Rodgers

            There’s some funny logic happening here: the original comment is about a government minister having an affair. Tracey says “name him”. Tigger says that’s a sexist assumption, Tracey says “are you saying the two parties are women?”

            This only makes sense if you assume Tracey thinks all business lobbyists are women.

            Or, if “name him” referred to the lobbyist, Tracey thinks all government ministers are women. Or only men can have affairs, and always have affairs with women? I’m well confused.

        • felix

          Tigger, is the Minister a rural or urban MP?

  4. bad12 4

    Some info gleaned from the Herald online,(aka the National Party disinformation service), it appears that it is not only politicians of the left that have a close relationship with Kim DotCom,

    National’s Tau Henare is said to have tweeted Dotcom Happy Birthday to one of DotCom’s kids, of equal if not more interest would seem to be the fact that Henare is also another National MP that has been given the ”see ya later’, (having been well rewarded for His waka jump to National from NZFirst’), from the Party as Slippery the Prime Minister attempts to fill Nationals Benches with a majority of ‘yesmen and women’,

    Henare is said to be overseas and is taking a week off to consider His future, which just might be code for ‘considering whether to hump His carpet-bag over to the the DotCom camp…

    • bad12 4.1

      As an afterthought, you can see how this might work for DotCom, IF Henare walked from National now and didn’t resign from the Parliament he could in theory become the first DotCom MP,

      This may be revealing as to who else DotCom has talked too, any of them who consider themselves, as cannon fodder, to be likely to feature too low down on the Party list to get back into the Parliament in their current Parties could choose within the next six months to jump to the Cross Benches in the guise of a DotCom MP,

      This would fit the hand into the glove if it looks like DotCom might be about to get deported befor the 2014 election IF he had the 4 or 5 MP’s willing to do ‘the jump’ anything could happen,

      Pure conjecture of course, but, such conjecture fits the current information,(true or false),that is out in the public arena now…

      • just saying 4.1.1

        In the best case scenario, Dot Com puts together a cross-party pressure group on matters related to privacy, internet freedom and civil liberties.

        But Tau is a boot-camp authoritarian imo, so something doesn’t fit.

        • greywarbler

          Are they allowed to waka jump like that? I thought that legislation had closed that down some time ago.

          And Tau Henare is I think an ambitious man, for himself, and would probably fit into the ethos of Dotcom very well.

          • bad12

            greywarbler, IF my memory serves me correctly, and it doesn’t always do me such service,blame the occasional bout of concussion over the years, i believe the waka jumping Legislation had a sunset clause written into it which means that it has now expired,

            Horan having been given the kick from NZFirst being an example…

            • Watching

              bad12 – technical question?

              Did Horan do a weka jump or was he kicked out of his party.
              So if the weka jumping legislation was still current would it have applied to Horan?

              • bad12

                Watching, now your stretching my knowledge, Horan definitely got the bums rush outta NZFirst by Winston Peters,(i have some interesting tit-bits to impart on this little fracas at a later date),

                As far as the waka jumping Legislation goes i am pretty sure that it died after having a sunset clause installed at the time it became Law,

                i will tho have a dig later and see if my recollection is correct, first tho, being an ancient old fart, in body functioning ability, not years, an afternoon siesta is called for as i got up early this morning and the blood sugar levels are to a certain extent kept balanced by plenty of sleep,(a passable excuse at the least don’t you think)…

                • bad12

                  Watching, here you go, definitely was a sunset clause in the Waka-jumping Legislation,

                  Quite an interesting story that, remembers Alamein Kopu to us all,(pay attention Hone), the Alliance MP who jumped ship and gave Her support to National,

                  The point being that should Hone form this touted alliance with DotCom He is going to have to be pretty sure of the credentials of any DotCom candidates He takes into the Parliament or risk an Alamein Kopu types situation developing,

                  As i was hunting out this article i came across one from Farrar at His branch of the sewer which gave a hint that in early 2013 National were talking of reviving the waka jumping Legislation,

                  my nose is far too sensitive for me to subject it to anything as ugly as kiwiblog so i didn’t ‘click on’ the article for a read,

                  It did tho make me wonder, was there a Palace coup brewing in National in early 2013 that was put down befor it came to a head, perhaps it was just Slippery being in some way offended by Horan having got the boot from NZFirst,(perhaps He didn’t like the idea that Horan’s vote went to the Greens while Horan disappeared to presumably go surfing or commune with His constituents at the TAB, which might have given more than one National MP a glitter in the eye imagining the baubles He or She could wrench outta the PM’s hands with a quick bolt to the Cross Benches)…

                  • srylands

                    “my nose is far too sensitive for me to subject it to anything as ugly as kiwiblog so i didn’t ‘click on’ the article for a read,”

                    I assume you are being ironic? You are the epitome of ugly!

                    • bad12

                      Only to the likes of wads of scum like you SSLands…

                    • Murray Olsen

                      Ugly is hungry kids with third world diseases. A few obscene phrases which aptly describe the foulness known as SSLands is poetry. I’m not surprised your foppish sensibilities can’t tell the difference.

        • bad12

          Don’t disagree with you on your analysis of Henare, just saying, But, ‘desperate needs call for desperate deeds’ would be the impetus for both Henare and DotCom,

          Remembering all the time that my comment we are addressing is simple speculation…

        • tricledrown

          The jack boots and Gerry Brownlee.
          I know Nuthink.

  5. Rosie 5

    For those of you wanting to unseat Dunne this election, you may be interested in attending this talk hosted by Wellington Workers’ Educational Association:

    “How Not To Be Dunne Over Again This Election!”

    This Wednesday, 26th March at St John’s conference centre on the corner of Willis and Dixon streets, Wellington, 5.30 – 6.30pm. Speaker John Maynard.

    This year is Dunne’s 30th anniversary of holding the seat of Ohariu. Given the damage he’s done with his one precious vote in these last two terms, it’s high time he went, don’t you think?!

    And for those interested in the benefits of a UBI there is a talk on at the same time the following Wednesday by Perce Harpham “Reducing inequality via a Universal Basic Income”.

    • Chooky 5.1

      thanx Rosie…unfortunately i cant go …but hope it goes well!

      • greywarbler 5.1.1

        Dunne-deal and his roost. Some facts about him for others like me who have heard of this magnificent creature that rivals a peacock in his splendour. I looked up the various wikipedia entries describing Peter Dunne and his political doings.

        The electorate has had boundary changes. Dunne held Ohariu as Labour MP 1984-1993 then stayed on when it became Onslow 1993-2008. In 1994 Dunne resigned from Labour and became an independent, then started the Future NZ Party. But in 1995 Dunne joined a group under the United NZ which joined National in coalition. In 1996 all other United candidates lost their seats and only Dunne remained in parliament. Then in 2002 Dunne’s United united with a new Future NZ. (Are you following all this, I’m trying to be clear.)

        In the 2002 election (this from the United Future Wikipedia page): The uplift in United Future support during the last two weeks of the campaign caught many commentators by surprise and drew votes away from National, Labour and the Green parties, who were engaged in a public squabble over genetic engineering. (I notice the dismissive word “squabble” over the strong discussion on the important new science of genetic engineering.)
        Dunne as United Future candidate unexpectedly drew many votes after a strong showing in a televised debate (did the worm turn) and got 6.9% party vote and agreed to support the Labour Party. This continued in 2005 which surprised some as, During the election campaign Dunne and National Party leader Don Brash publicly sat outside an Epsom café over a cup of tea as a demonstration to the electorate that Dunne could co-operate with National.

        In the last two elections United has dropped sharply in its Party Vote and only Dunne has retained his seat. The columns show that for election year 2008 there were 51 electorate contenders and 30 on the list, dropping to 20 and 17 for the next. Their Party Vote has gone from 20,497 to 13,443 at 0.60%.
        2008 51 / 30 1 20,497 0.87%
        2011 20 / 17 1 13,443 0.60%

        In 2011 Dunne only received 672 Party Votes in his own electorate but personally had a 5.97% rise to to 14,357. But Labour was close with Charles Chauvel at 12,965 a rise of 4.89%. Charles resigned in March 2013 to work in the U.N.)
        National was up in the Party Vote to 49.60% and Greens had risen too to 14.42%.
        The man is a chameleon or maybe a gecko which I believe have remarkable suction pads on their feet that enable them to resist the pull of gravity and walk effortlessly across ceilings.

        Ohariu demographics –
        The new electorate contains the section of Wellington City between Crofton Downs and southern Tawa, including Ngaio, Khandallah, Johnsonville and Newlands. The rest of the electorate consists of Lower Hutt’s hill suburbs of Korokoro, Maungaraki and Normandale. Ōhariu is one of 11 electorate names to include a macron, for the first time.

        Both Ohariu-Belmont and Ōhariu are young and wealthy; it has the largest number of 30-49 year-olds in the country, and the second highest number of families earning between $70,000 and $100,000 per year. 69% of its population is New Zealand European, 14% Asian and 8% Māori.[1]

        And following on from that note on salaries in the Ohariu electorate, I’ll slip in some interesting data from the census that The Herald published about rises in income.
        A Herald analysis of the income figures show a 90 per cent rise in people earning between $70,001 and $100,000 – from 125,115 to 238,212 – and a 40 per cent increase in those bringing home between $50,000 and $70,000.
        Of those earning more than $100,000 41 per cent live in Auckland, 19 per cent in Wellington and 12 per cent in Christchurch.
        Women are a fifth more likely to have a degree than men, but women’s incomes lag behind men’s because women are still more likely to do more unpaid child-minding….
        The number of women on six-figure salaries has doubled from 22,824 to 45,294 since the 2006 Census….
        While the median wage – Men earn $36,500 and women $23,100, according to the median income figures, up from $31,500 and $19,100 respectively.


        • bad12

          Lolz warbler, i like your analogy likening Dunne to a gecko, its so He can scurry effortlessly around the toilet bowl without getting His ‘hairdo’ wet…

        • Rosie

          Thats right Warbly.

          The boundaries are however on the move and have yet to be confirmed. Ohariu will lose the Lower Hutt hill suburbs you mention and gain the wealthy city suburb of Wadestown.

          The other thing, despite Ohariu “being young and wealthy” (probably more so in the suburbs of Ngaio and Khandallah) is that there is also a great deal of poverty in the Ohariu electorate. Dunne, who has said he won’t support Hone Harawira’s “feed the kids” bill has so far failed to acknowledge that we have had two new food charities set up business in the electorate. One is (from memory) Kiwi Community Assistance based in Tawa who distribute food parcels and donated clothing and blankets and sadly, a food bank has opened up in Newlands – not that far from his office.

          You’re right. He is indeed a chameleon, changing his colours to blend in with the next wave to come along to personally advance his standing and security in the electorate. He has a following here of dull non thinking conservatives (sorry, lol, can’t back that up, just my obs) and manages to get a story about his little local efforts in the community newspaper most weeks.Its a cosy sleepy arrangement.

          He only got in by 1392 votes last time, as you point out above. Those votes went to the Green candidate. I would suggest to those Green supporters (of which I have party voted previously) to take a deep breath, vote for the Labour candidate, Virginia Anderson and do it for the country! Yes!

          We can do it! We need voters on board and we can end Dunne’s reign!

          • Watching

            Not sure if you should take what happen in 2011 as applying to 2014, as:

            Katrina Shanks chased the electorate vote quite hard as her days as a list MP were numbered. This pissed off the Nats & we know what happen next.
            In 2011 the Nats were going to win by a landslide (so the polls said), the the Nats voters became sloppy in Ohariu & departed from the script. In 2014 every vote counts & Ohariu/Dunne will be crucial for a Nats win – so expect a significant movement of former Shanks votes back to Dunne.
            In 2011 Labour had a high profile candidate in Chauvel, never heard of Anderson.
            I assume that Wadestown pool of voters will be following the Dunne electorate & Nats List voting script. If they lived in Auckland I guess they would be Epsom voters.

            I wouldn’t be surprised if Dunne margin is 2000plus on Sept 20th

            • Rosie

              ” In 2014 every vote counts & Ohariu/Dunne will be crucial for a Nats win – so expect a significant movement of former Shanks votes back to Dunne.”

              I absolutely agree Watching and I do expect that those who want a National coalition to retain power, to back Dunne. I’m also aware that we have lost our high profile Labour candidate. I also have made the same assumptions about the Wadestown voters but am hoping than in an alternative universe those hills are alive with the the cries of chardonnay socialists.

              You are giving voice to my unspoken fears – I’d rather you didn’t!

              In saying hat, that doesn’t mean that those of us who are determined to see Dunne out shouldn’t go F- ing hard out in the mean time. You may also be aware that Ohariu voted 67% NO in the asset sales referendum. I think that could be seen as an indication of how the electorate are feeling let down by Dunne – They shouldn’t have expected anything better but sometimes folks learn the hard way

              • greywarbler

                A chance to repeat my favourite quote:
                By three methods we may learn wisdom:
                First, by reflection, which is noblest;
                Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
                and third by experience, which is the bitterest.

                And bitter it will be if we get No.3.

          • greywarbler

            Rosie good picture of what’s happening in your area. And yes it would be a good strategic move to move him on. The Greens would survive and it is no use sticking to rigid practices when there is greater need. I mean that normally I think support yur own Party, but when there is a chance to push the ejector seat button, it’s worth the entry price.

            I believe that this sort of career politician good ole’ boy is very common in the USA in one of their houses at least. I think I am against career politicians but for some experience in life first, and then a limit on how many cycles one can serve for within 20 years say. Otherwise you end up with people who used to ride penny farthings to work.

            • Rosie

              Warbs, the image of Peter Dunne on a penny farthing whizzing down the Ngauranga Gorge, on his way to work came to mind. He does have the bow tie! Mind you, those Victorian gents had a different type of tie didn’t they? This one does:


              Seriously though, I do think that given the importance of removing Dunne from his seat, that during campaign time Cunliffe should come to our electorate and do a speech, along side our new candidate. That would get people talking and voting would it not!?

              • greywarbler

                He looks like the sort of man we could do with. Firm of purpose, strikes a good pose, looks a straight shooter, good jawline, ready to take on the world and uncowed by the mighty beast beside him. Looks full of vim and vigour, whether that would be applied wisely I wouldn’t know – he looks too young to have achieved wisdom. But a change from someone, who sorry to say, is an old hack.

        • Tracey

          dont tell srylands he thinks the current system brings prosperity and equity.

    • Akldnut 5.2

      Rosie do you know Perce Harpham is coming north? I would be really interested in going if he was giving a presentation in Auckland.

      • Rosie 5.2.1

        Hi Akldnut. I’m afraid I can’t answer your question.I think it’s just a regional event, put on by the local WEA. I see on the WEA website there is a Waitakere group so maybe you could ask them if they have anyone speaking soon on this topic:


    • Bearded Git 5.3

      The mantra should be Problem Gambling Foundation, Problem Gambling Foundation….

      • karol 5.3.1

        Interesting Herald Editorial on this – basically the government went the extra mile to assure that they had given the process of reviewing the funding to people that aren’t part of the government – they went so far to ensure this, as to raise the question of it being done deliberately to ensure the PGF was silenced in a way that government couldn’t be blamed for it.

        Try as the Opposition might to blame the Key Government, a careful trail of bureaucratic process has been laid, one that leads away from the Beehive.

        Then this bit:

        As that minister, Peter Dunne, said in reply to criticism from the Greens, Labour and the Public Service Association, the ministry “went beyond the requirements of best practice”. Which could well confirm the critics in their cynicism. They know and the electorate knows public servants can pick up on political winds, anticipate their masters’ prejudices and move to consider them. Not always to meet them, but to find a way for the political within the strict machinery of the state.

  6. Ad 6

    Site authors take note:

    Newspaper Publishers’ Association editorial director Rick Neville, who chairs the Press Council’s executive committee, said most publishers felt the time had come to strengthen the Press Council’s authority, and to extend its coverage to handle complaints against digital media, including bloggers.

    • Pete 6.1

      I was going to raise that. Are there any benefits to bloggers joining the Press Council? I know Cameron Slater will be wanting to get that veneer of legitimacy, but aside from an ego trip does it offer any protection or advantages?

      • Naturesong 6.1.1

        I hope he applies and is accepted.

        Anyone interested in running a book for the date he gets struck off? 😈

        • greywarbler

          What is the minimum bid? How does it work? And what does the winner do with the money – I suggest donate it to The Standard. It would still be fun to participate, pure sport with no personal profit resulting.

    • bad12 7.1

      i wouldn’t have called that a ‘horrible’ picture of Laws, more like a ‘diseased’ portrait of Laws…

  7. bad12 8

    Ha-ha-ha, Mike Williams on the Mike and Matty show, ”Shane Jones is a potential Prime Minister in an election or two”,

    At such a point i am leaving, even if i have to swim…

    • geoff 8.1

      Not the first time Mike Williams has sung Shane’s praises.

      Now Hooton bringing out his anti-labour spin. Labelling Labour’s wood policy as crony-capitalists.

      At least Mike is defending Labour.

      Ooo now matthew’s voice getting shrill….heee hee

      haha classic

      • phillip ure 8.1.1

        williams was a total booster of jones during that leadership race..

        .(.and about the only one..)

        ..and i’m still waiting for an apology from him for his role in that poor-bashing/neo/lib/environment-fucking-over clark -labour regime..

        ..the man is an irrelevant fucken clown..

        ..’i agree with matty..’..

        • Anne

          williams was a total booster of jones during that leadership race.

          Wrong. He went on public record as voting for David Cunliffe.

          All he did was note that Shane is a born orator with a good sense of humour.

          • phillip ure

            i am sorry anne..you are incorrect..

            ..the record will show williams was for jones until just before the end..

            ..when he switched to cunnliffe..

            ..i viewed that at the time as a craven effort to be ‘on the right side’ at the end..

            ..nothing more..

            ..(and how farcical is his current claim that ‘jones cd b pm in an election or two’..?..

            ..the man is fucken delusional..)

            • bad12

              A link to some evidence that supports your assertion Phillip would be helpful…

            • Tracey

              Not true I heard him on natrad at the beginning of the leadership contest and he picked cunliffe

          • bad12

            Anne, a link to some evidence that supports your assertion would be helpful…

  8. Bill 9

    Surprise, surprise, surprise.

    After examining 72 academic studies involving more than 600,000 participants, the study, funded by the (British Heart) foundation, found that saturated fat consumption was not associated with coronary disease risk. This assessment echoed a review in 2010 that concluded “there is no convincing evidence that saturated fat causes heart disease”.

    The article winds up with some basic common sense.

    The crucial phrase “avoid processed food” appears nowhere in government nutritional guidelines, yet this is the most concise way to sum up in practical terms what is wholesome and healthy to eat.

    But hey…keep on with the marg and the prepacked, processed to hell gunk, (Still avoiding eggs?) and hunt down all those wee heart ticks and exclamations of low this and low that.


    • geoff 9.1

      All of this points to the inability to make good measurements in medicine.

    • Ergo Robertina 9.2

      Thanks Bill. An excellent read.
      Where is the apology from science and governments?
      Maybe once they give up dissembling over what’s left of the crumbling low fat diet consensus, but only if we hold them to account.
      Science and naïve government food faddism of the last 30 years hyped processed fats instead of the animal fats that sustained us for centuries. It’s been deadly and ruined the lives of millions with obesity. It gave sugar and excess carbs a free pass, and loaded our systems with awful processed fats that were also horrible to eat.
      Another great example of why we should always follow our own instincts on eating and health care rather than official advice, where it takes 30 years and counting for irrefutable ‘evidence’ to arrive.
      Also this, from the article:

      ‘In line with the contention that foods containing animal fats are harmful, we have also been instructed to restrict our intake of red meat. But crucial facts have been lost in this simplistic red-hazed debate. The weak epidemiological evidence that appears to implicate red meat does not separate well-reared, unprocessed meat from the factory farmed, heavily processed equivalent that contains a cocktail of chemical additives, preservatives and so on. Meanwhile, no government authority has bothered to tell us that lamb, beef and game from free-range, grass-fed animals is a top source of conjugated linoleic acid, the micronutrient that reduces our risk of cancer, obesity and diabetes.’

    • greywarbler 9.3

      The Heart Association sells its ticks to food manufacturers, in the USA anyway. Moral hazard there. And the NZ Government gets sponsorship from food producers for its dietary brochures. So very objective – not.

    • bad12 9.4

      Lolz, Interesting, but to be remembered most of us do not have access to free range unmolested by humans red meat,

      Beef and sheep in this country are molested by the humans pumping stuff into them all at an early age, and, who hasn’t heard of water or something else? being pumped into meat by butchers and supermarkets to make the stuff last a bit longer in the chillers,

      i have just hit the 3 month mark of a high fish,high veg,high fruit diet, no meat,(except the odd bacon and egg burger),at least halved the sugar intake and swapped to multi grain bread and brown rice, psychologically i feel good and my recovery time, in breathing, from physical exertion is far faster than previously,

      Remember tho, you got tobacco use causes half of its users to die of cancers and heart disease from these very same people,

      i do not recommend anyone start puffing on that particular weed, but, i would suggest that given enough time this alarmist mantra brought to you by the anti-smoking fanatics will be proven to be an absolute can of male bovine defecation….

      • Rosie 9.4.1

        Good to hear that the new food tricks are going well…………….did you ever find those tonzu vego sausages at new world Miramar or at the commonsense organic store in Kilbrinie? (They are 80 cents cheaper at the organic store than than at NW)

        As to Bill’s comment, thats not surprising at all. I remember attending a seminar on “The cholesterol juggernaut” back in 2000 where the researcher discussed another cause of heart disease – tiny tears in the arteries caused by damage from homocysteine, an amino acid found in processed red meat. These little tears trap cholesterol which of course famously causes “blocks the arteries”. Without the tears, even the “bad” cholesterol can flow through. (This was almost 15 years ago and just my memory I’m going so don’t take it for gospel)

        They talked about the additional effects of trans fatty acids found in margarine and refined cooking oils. They reckoned that Indian people had less heart disease when ghee, their traditional clarified butter was used in cooking compared to when it was replaced with cheaper mass produced refined vegetable oil. The English seminar presenter was definitely a fan of cooking with lard!

        Personally, I enjoy using quite a bit of unrefined olive oil in my food prep and cooking but also like the odd bit of butter (in mashed potatoes!)

        • bad12

          Yeah thanks Rosie, i found them in the Kilbirnie health food store, while for me there was nothing really wrong with them something in my wee pea brain didn’t quite take to them so i ended up feeding half the packet i did buy to the garden,

          i can’t quite put my finger on why i didnt take to them, they tasted alright but in a way sort of tasted of nothing, anyway, i dropped that idea in favor of fish,(bugger the mercury),and things are going great on the dietary front,(down to 97 kilo),

          The proof of the pudding as the saying goes, will be the results of the next Count Dracula test in mid April when i see how the numbers are for cholesterol and blood sugar,

          Fonterror having cranked up the prices of both butter and cheese i have again banned them from my shopping trolley, the replacement for butter/cheese on my toast is now Guacamole which has plenty of veg oil in it to soften the toast a bit…

          • Rosie

            I’m a bit over them myself. I now use the vego saus for backup when theres nothing else and tend to use quite a bit of Zing brand tomato sauce.
            Good on you for your efforts and getting results. I need to take a leaf out of your book!

  9. Mary 10

    This is interesting:


    Those bloody citizens! Always got their hands out. And guess who has to pay? Yes, us, the taxpayers!

    • Naturesong 10.1

      Quelle Horreur!

      ACC actually doing their job?

      I’m off outside to make sure the sky isn’t falling!

      Anyone know if sports clubs pay an ACC levy?

      • greywarbler 10.1.1

        There was something done about sports paying levies – I don’t know about now. And whether they get a reduced rate if they aren’t always turning up with head injuries.

  10. aerobubble 11

    Hooten loses plot again. Warner Brother law changes hurt local independent contractors. This according to Hooten is much better than Cunliffes forestry policy that helps contractors, forestry businesses and the whole country (wood framed homes).

    Labour did movie deals, has Hooten forgotten. It wasn’t the dealing with a industry that was the problem, its National choosing winners under the deal. Its not correct to say changes in government policy doesn’t make some loses and some winners, its that the policy harm NZ and kiwis while giving foreign interest a sweet deal. We all know that after the Warner deal the production industies took a big hit, shedding staff, because the deal wasn’t about helping the industry, it was about Key desperate weakness in needing to get a Hobbit deal as Clark had. Its was all about how high Key could piss up the wall, as high as Clark.

    What’s worse though is Hooten pre-empted the issue just as the program was coming to an end and so left the rather nasty taste, leaving both Williams and the presenter without a chance to introduce balance. Warner Brothers scored an own goal globally by harming unionists here and sending the message that Warner was anti-union worldwide, just so creepy Key could get another hit for term neo-liberal and smash employee and contractor bargain power.

    • Skinny 11.1

      I might as while give Hooton some more information since he is ‘so’ unoriginal r.e. Shane Jones/NZF.

      How long is it before Winston Peters announces he will stand in the electorate seat of Whangarei?
      Thanks for your kind offer of wanting me to stand for your new independent political party Mr Horan, however I can’t support party votes to your party that need to go to the Left, thanks all the same bud I’m honoured to be considered 🙂

      • Skinny 11.1.1

        *well (sorry not much of an editor)
        Since Peters sister Lynette Stewart lost in a very close selection meeting yesterday to the tough as nails, street fighting justice lawyer Kelly Ellis, now allows Winnie an in to swipe this seat right under the Nats noses!

  11. greywarbler 12

    An item on a failed builder in The Weekend Press ‘Alarm as builder folds.’ Very young, only 29, builder from the Far North starts business in Christchurch where all the money and work is. Has problems argues with insurers doesn’t pay contractors houses don’t get built. Says he hasn’t got the money to finish. (One supplier said, he told my staff they could use his house in Bali anytime.)

    Police have been asked to investigate NZ Premium Construction which has been put into liquidation by its shareholders Craig Johnson and wife Eva Johnson. They have come a cropper, though they tried to trade through. I think they probably bit off more than they could chew.

    Another young ambitious cowboy builder, perhaps following in the footsteps of those others who built the leaky houses. He is following the same shonky operation.. Eight days before his liquidation, Johnson formed another company called NZ Premium Construction 2014. He was initial director and shareholder but has now resigned and replaced by Auckland accountant Fergus Cleaver. Then the company’s name was changed to Kwik Management a few days later.

    This has got to stop. This being the ability to set up companies so easily. NZ is known apparently as being a know-nothing lot who will let you set up just about any legal entity, quick and easy. We cannot allow people to use our system to facilitate con men who aren’t interested in being reliable businesspeople to advance themselves at others expense!

    Especially builders! Used car salesmen always had a favoured place in wry comedy, but should be replaced by builders, some of these slimy NZ builders take the cake, and your bread as well.

    • aerobubble 12.1

      But its a National policy to make it easy for people to lose their shirts. Older investors, sandy silty foundations, mine inspections… ..the list of losers makes National core supporters feel like superheros, the call to power brigade, the Randian front line.

    • bad12 12.2

      greywarbler, yeah i have touched on a similar but definitely related problem a number of times, last week it was one of National’s own MP’s that had been bit by the ability of someone in a dispute being able to escape payment of monies ordered by an adjudication because befor it got that far the company named had shifted everything into another company and such orders are not attached to the material owners/benefactors of the company befor the adjudicator,

      We read a lot about this or that person having won an employment dispute and a company being ordered to cough up an amount of dollars as compensation, what we do not hear about is that a lot of these, usually small employers have other companies basically sitting as shells on the shelf,

      As soon as these people get wind of an impending employment dispute they simply fold the company at the heart of the dispute doing a paper transfer of all assets into one of the entities they have ready sitting and waiting,and thus, avoid having to pay a cent to the offended against employee,

      It’s a problem right across the adjudication/tribunals system which need be changed so that all orders are for the named company but also attache to the owner/material beneficiary of the company named…

      • greywarbler 12.2.1

        bad12 That’s important. Didn’t know that. It has seemed to me that there are wormholes in National’s legal space. Everything they do needs to be surveilled for them.
        Worms good in my garden, bad in politics and law.

        • bad12

          greywarbler, Pike River springs to mind as to just how far up the food chain the current Laws allow avoidance of responsibility to occur,

          it aint rocket science, company law should require the company to provide a name/names of the material owner or beneficiary of the company to whom all orders from an Adjudication/Tribunal should attach/apply,

          If that means X company has to list 100,000 shareholders well then so be it, but, as the Law now stands, if i as a citizen have an order made against me by an Adjudicator/Tribunal and refuse to pay in the end the Court will simply order such monies taken from either my wages or benefit,

          The same rule should be applied to the material owner/beneficiaries of any company where those given an order of compensation by a Adjudication/Tribunal process should be able to apply to the court to have that order enforced against those registered as the owner/material beneficiaries of a company,

          In essence, the current Law as it stands simply allows/encourages those hiding behind a company name to pervert the course of justice and such people are knowingly and willfully doing so…

  12. Scott 13

    More evidence that our Minister of Culture and Heritage doesn’t understand culture and heritage:

  13. tricledrown 14

    Naturesong some sports such as rugby soccer(football) netball pay ACC as part of their membership fees.
    But skiers and outdoor pursuitists don’t.
    Some outdoors persuits like skiing have a high and expensive injury rate.

    • Naturesong 14.1

      That was my understanding as well.

      So the stuff article referenced by Mary is being loose with the truth.

      This appears to be an editorial decision by Stuff to undermine the primary function of ACC (no fault cover).
      ACC are an easy target due to changes in funding levels put in place by National, as well as the numerous well documented failures to deliver their statutorily required services.

    • nadis 14.2

      you’re wrong tricledown. Sports clubs of any sort don’t pay levies. Sports injuries are funded out of the earners account, which comes out of your wages/salary of you are employed or the non-earners account (funded by the govt) if you’re not.


      • Naturesong 14.2.1

        Cheers for that Nadis.

        Easy fix would be to include ACC levies in high risk sports membership fees then.

        • nadis

          Yeah, rugby and skiing in particular get a very, very easy ride from ACC. Mind you so do accidents in the home. The ACC argument is that people who have those injuries are generally paying levies elsewhere, but there is very little incentive for most individuals to moderate risky behaviour. We could retain all the good things about a no fault system by spreading the fee burden to risky activities, i.e., a couple of bucks on a ski pass, a levy on sports clubs etc.

          thee other thing should be to take non-residents out of the coverage. Most tourists who are visiting more than NZ would likely come here with travel insurance, but have an accident and claim on ACC instead of their insurance. Madness from a NZ fiscal point of view.

          • McFlock

            I would have thought that the incentive to moderate risky behaviour was pain and injury.

            As for treating tourists, make it a component of the visa/immigration fees if that’s such an issue.

            • felix

              “I would have thought that the incentive to moderate risky behaviour was pain and injury.”

              I don’t understand how a rational self-interested consumer/taxpayer should account for this “pain and injury” as you call it.

              Can it be expressed as a unit of currency?

              • McFlock

                It does seem to have an exchange rate: offering the pain and injury that can be extracted from a pointy stick is generally exchanged for “all the money in the till”.

            • nadis

              Have you ever been or known a young male?

              • McFlock

                As opposed to one for whom paying a nominal insurance levy (or, for that matter, HP agreement, car loan, or traffic ticket) would make more of a difference? Is that what you meant by “incentive for most individuals to moderate risky behaviour”? And, for that matter, are “young males” what you meant by “most individuals”? Because they’re only a few hundred thousand out of 4 million.

              • felix

                Err, you seem to be implying that young males are so reckless and careless that the fear of pain, injury (even death, presumably) has no effect on their decision to engage in risky behaviour.

                However you also seem to be implying that some sort of monetary incentive will have an effect on the same decision.

                I’m sorry Dave, I can’t do that.

              • McFlock

                you might find this ACC stats calculator useful.

  14. thechangeling 15

    If ‘all is well’ in New Zealand, (as the Dominion Post editorial asserts 19/3/14,) why are there more than 150,000+ people looking for a job and another 350,000 people under-unemployed? If that isn’t a crisis, I don’t know what is. A dearth of employment opportunities here is making life permanently grim for hundreds of thousands of people.
    Child poverty is rising, home ownership is decreasing quickly, because employment availability and security is being compromised by free trade agreements that remove jobs, investment, and the flow on effects of wealth circulation that instead heads offshore.
    Add to that the latest attacks on collective bargaining which is guaranteed to lower wages and salaries and employment security even further and we’re heading into a third world scenario.
    If you vote National, you truly need your head examined because the only people that are safe from their policies are multi- millionaires. Everybody else is extremely vulnerable.

  15. lprent 16

    Some software at the server had a problem and made all web server instances fall over (another fallover hole to fix damnit!)

    I have it back running and I think it should be ok now.

    Just taking the backup servers offline again. I’ll leave one running just in case.

  16. Tiger Mountain 17

    oh well our national role models have moved on from pissing on the pub carpet (Mills), car stomping in the UK (you know who it was) and partner bashing (various) to pilling out; there is no depression in Noo Zeeeeland.

  17. tricledrown 18

    Nadis google sports clubs and ACC payment the Soccer club I used to play for was charged $45 per year per player as part of our fee’s.

    • nadis 18.1

      I suspect that was some type of private medical insurance or physio payment scheme, or if you are a professional i.e., you then pay a levy on your wages. The only time a club has to pay ACC levies is as part of their payroll for staff, not for players.

  18. freedom 19

    Having an odd site issue: This a.m. was fine but all afternoon I am getting the ” Hello world” page when trying to access TS on my desktop via tethered phone.

    This post was done direct from phone.

    Will check in later for any advice, thanks.

  19. freedom 20

    See lprent’s post now. Never mind 😎

  20. karol 21

    Damn. I have been recently getting sliding ads on firefox, even though I use adblocker etc. I was mainly getting it on news sites over the last week or so.

    Suddenly, I’m getting them on TS – just started in the last hour or so. They slide across the screen from the right and bottom simultaneously. To read anything I have to click on the 2 sliders separately.

    How do I stop it?

  21. captain hook 22

    trend micro does the trick.

  22. Stuart Munro 23

    The Bank of England has kindly produced this paper for those of us trying to explain to RWNJ trolls that Green monetary policy is on the whole a lot sounder than the Gnat’s:

  23. lprent 24

    Ok, found and fixed the problem with the fall over server. Option inside apache2 configuration file that got upgraded. I must have hit merge – something it did badly.

  24. greywarbler 25

    It seems that it is the Indian Ocean that was the end for MH370 flight. I wonder if there was a fire. In one of the articles that was mentioned, and does happen from overheated tyres, insufficiently inflated, or the lithium batteries said to be on board. If there is a fire then it is difficult to use an oxygen mask because it feeds it. There is a smoke mask that copes for some minutes. If the plane was set on auto pilot then it would fly on itself until it ran out of fuel.

    Wikipedia has a simple graphic that shows the possible two corridors and if the plane was aiming for the large airport on Malaysia but couldn’t get down, then it could have just kept going on the Indian Ocean route. But then wouldn’t that have shown up on their radar at the airport. I don’t understand all the aspects to this.

    A comment from last week from an ex pilot that’s informative.

    http://news.yahoo.com/flight-missing-plane-ended-indian-ocean-malaysian-pm-141026301.html – shows all area

    Here’s a very full report from the Mail on line from about a week ago.

    • KJT 25.1

      Air traffic control radar is not primary radar. It works off a transponder signal from the aircraft.
      More like ships AIS, than normal radar.

      If the transponder signal disappears, because of a fire, power loss or deliberately switched off, then the aircraft goes “off the radar”. Controllers would have to switch to “primary radar” backups.

      They had some trouble locating a plane that crashed in forest in, I seem to remember, Belgium, because they lost track of it when the transponder stopped working.

      Power loss would be unusual as there is an auxiliary generator of some kind to keep power on essential systems, even if all the engines fail..

      A possibility is that everyone on board was asphyxiated from a fire or cabin pressure loss.

      I did consider they may have lost navigation systems as well as pother electronics and simply got lost. Extremely unlikely these days however.
      It was the likely cause of many of the plane disappearances in the past. Like the so called “mysteries” of the Bermuda Triangle. The Erubus crash, primary cause, was a miss-programming of navigation co-ordinates.

      • greywarbler 25.1.1

        Thanks KJT this piece from a former pilot brings up that point. He seems to have a plausible theory.

        Malaysian military radar (which is a primary radar, meaning the plane is tracked by reflection rather than by transponder interrogation response) has tracked the plane on a southwesterly course back across the Malay Peninsula into the Strait of Malacca….

        When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles

        For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations… (He also mentions the possibility of a tyre fire.)

        Once going, a tire fire would produce horrific, incapacitating smoke. Yes, pilots have access to oxygen masks, but this is a no-no with fire. Most have access to a smoke hood with a filter, but this will last only a few minutes depending on the smoke level. (I used to carry one in my flight bag, and I still carry one in my briefcase when I fly.)

        What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. You will find it along that route–looking elsewhere is pointless.

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