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Open mike 24/04/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 24th, 2016 - 92 comments
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92 comments on “Open mike 24/04/2016 ”

  1. Penny Bright 1

    Seen this?

    “Investigative Journalism: Why Bernie may have actually won New York

    Even after Tuesday’s voting debacle, many have assumed that even without election-day mishaps, Hillary Clinton would have won New York. Fairly reasonable, right? After all, it was a decisive sixteen-point win in her home state.

    Not so fast; I’m going to present a series of facts that should lead the rational observer to be suspicious of these results.

    Before we begin, I want you to know that I am a staunch Sanders supporter; therefore, I will do my best to remove my “Bernie bias” from the equation (please join me in keeping a close eye on my personal beliefs, lest they color my analysis or cause me to omit relevant counter-evidence).

    We’re going to examine the situation using a device called Occam’s razor, which essentially says to choose the simplest theory that covers all of the bases.

    Let’s look at what we know.
    … ”

    Penny Bright
    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

    • Jenny 1.1

      “With human beings, perception is e everything”

      or in this case the creation of misperception

      …..there is a misperception, which has spread since Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver appeared on MSNBC last night. Numerous reports quoted Weaver and suggested the campaign plans to upend the will of voters and flip superdelegates to win the Democratic presidential nomination at the convention in July.

      However, what Bump, Walsh, and others seem to misunderstand is Weaver made his comments under the presumption that neither Clinton nor Sanders will meet the 2,383 pledged delegate threshold needed to clinch the nomination before the convention. Both candidates will need to make cases to superdelegates to clinch the nomination.


      • Ad 1.1.1


        The Sanders supporters are just starting to go through their five stages of grief.

        • adam

          Questions in and around corruption, and Ad reaches for the cheap shot.

          Questions around money buying elections – and Ad decides this is not an issue – and goes for a cheap shot.

          Ever thought you just parrot the establishment media Ad? -Ever thought you were a weak individual who only good at the, cheap shot?

          • weka

            Cheap and nasty shot.

            • Reddelusion

              Just because it hurts your delicate feelings it does not make it wrong The left now have a propensity to blame every loss and or poll result on corruption, the media and or the voters, never looking at there own inadequacies and that joe public just doesn’t want to buy their Kool Aid

              • weka

                What does your comment have to do with mine or Adam’s or Ads? Or are you just jumping on the back of them to whine about lefties?

              • Jenny

                “Just because it hurts your delicate feelings it does not make it wrong The left now have a propensity to blame every loss and or poll result on corruption…” Reddelusion

                Reddelusion if you had read my comment and attached link, you would have seen that it is the Right that are claiming that Sanders is acting undemocratically, for daring to presume that he can lobby super delegates at the Democratic Convention in July. A tactic it seems is only permitted to born to rule establishment figures.

        • Penny Bright

          It ain’t over till it’s over …..

          Penny Bright
          2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

          • Reddelusion

            Or to [deleted]

            [Only warning. Not fucking acceptable. Don’t go down that track again.] – Bill

  2. Dialey 3

    Is smugness the problem with the left? A long read in The Vox analysing the alienation of the liberal left from the ‘red neck’ working class they used to represent. http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
    I know I’m guilty of many of the examples the writer gives, as are so many of the commentatators of all of the left wing blogs. Maybe we need to change our attitudes and not underestimate the size of the chasm that has to crossed if we want to gain the reins of government ever again

    • Tinfoilhat 3.1

      Thanks for that – a challenging article.

    • Ad 3.2

      A really annoying article.
      Typical leftie self-loathing.

      Worth a debate though.

    • Katipo 3.3

      Think the problems of the left have a lot to do with the consumer driven neolib world we now live in. Working class organisations have lost their influence while the workers now toil away for ever increasing hours for stagnated wages, they simply don’t have the conditions, resources or luxury of time to formulate any cohesive response.


      • Draco T Bastard 3.3.1


      • Draco T Bastard 3.3.2

        One thing that I’ve noted over the last couple of years is that the people we need the least, the people who could be so easily replaced, these people are paid the most. And the inverse of course – the people we need the most are paid the least.

        Summed up here:

        Pay matters. How much you earn can determine your lifestyle, where you can afford to live, and your aspirations and status. But to what extent does what we get paid confer ‘worth’?

      • Draco T Bastard 3.3.3

        Quoting article:

        What makes all this especially shocking is that it’s happening in a capitalist system, a system founded on capitalist values like efficiency and productivity. While politicians endlessly stress the need to downsize government, they remain largely silent as the number of bullshit jobs goes right on growing. This results in scenarios where, on the one hand, governments cut back on useful jobs in sectors like healthcare, education, and infrastructure – resulting in unemployment – while on the other investing millions in the unemployment industry of training and surveillance whose effectiveness has long been disproven.

        Sounds about right.

      • weka 3.3.4

        Garbage men should earn more than bankers, but part of the problem is that garbage men will always earn more than cleaners and rest home workers. Traditional socialist movements lost many politicised women to feminism in the 70s because women were still being expected to make cups of tea and lie on their backs as their main role in the movement, and to put their own agenda and political needs aside until after the revolution.

        That’s a generalisation, and not intended to render invisible all the socialist women who have done good work, nor the fact that not all of the traditional left was so biased. From the feminist side, women were talking about why they left those movements and committed to feminist politics instead. It’s hard to see how those women would go back, esp when there is still a strong stream of thought on the left that denigrates human rights issues (so called identity politics) and basically tells everyone that their needs can wait until after the revolution.

        Likewise other people who don’t see class as the overarching issue that should take precedence over all others.

        I do agree there is a big problem for the left though, in that the party political is now run by the middle classes. Plus the neoliberal capture.

      • Reddelusion 3.3.5

        another way to look at it rather than rolling out the stock lefty Neo liberal bollocks is that they can’t be bothered as most are happy enough and just getting on with it in the 21st century. This is to the disgust of the old liberal elite lefty institution (e.g. Academics, unions, labour) that are loosing their power base trying to create misery that is not there to manufacture victims to form a constituency for their own self interest, wealth and power

    • joe90 3.4

      If the author of Twitterature World’s Greatest Books in 20 tweets says so…..

    • rhinocrates 3.5

      That smugness is one of the reasons I gave up on Russell Brown and his Public Address cronies. I have a Christian friend who spent years in Ethiopia working with victims of leprosy, war and rape at great psychological cost to herself and when I told them about her, they simply ridiculed her faith. I don’t forgive them for that, but then I’m not a Christian.

      • weka 3.5.1

        I’ve seen similar happen on ts too. I think it’s more about the fundamentalist atheists than class.

      • In Vino 3.5.2

        Not quite fair… I too am an atheist, but would not have used ridicule to diminish what your friend did. (Unless I thought it very funny and witty at the time…) I hope would not have diminished it at all.
        The problem is that many people are desperately trying to justify the stance they have taken, and in conversation do not have time to consider where others are coming from.

        It is all part of aging and becoming a grumpy old person. I know.. I think I have been there, but I can’t quite remember.

    • Bill 3.6

      How many generations ago did the idea gain traction, that by voting in a given party – Labour in most of the English speaking world – that things would get better as society embarked on an ever upward trajectory of improvement that would eventually deliver (remember this?) a world based on socialist principles?

      The left said that was never going to happen, because parliament could never be a route to socialism. Nevertheless, enough people were blindsided, improvements flowed to many for a time, and parliamentary statism became synonymous with ‘the left’…at the same time as the left was being systematically marginalised and its thoughts and vision eradicated from the consciousness of the population at large.

      And now we’re in a cul-de-sac.

      Statism cannot deliver. Markets cannot deliver. They’ve ‘done their dash’ and it’s all decline from now on in. Meanwhile, society at large has largely lost the vision and inspiration that used to inform and drive a substantial proportion of the people within it. What we have now is the spectacle of a shrinking faux left, flailing around trying to convince itself that it has something to offer…that its state bound, bastardised version of left vision and thought continues to carry any water. It’s got nothing.

      Only those fortunate enough to be from families that were ‘lifted up’ and who have so far, not been dashed back down, are keen to perpetuate the myth of ‘progress’ by some supposedly ‘left’ parliamentary party fiddling with the art of chrematistics. (Google it). But growing numbers of people, staring back into a quality of life they imagine to be not a million miles away from the shite their great grandparents might have had to endure, just aren’t buying it any more.

      Those people don’t need to be convinced that they should stick the course because things will work out. It’s the still comfortable liberals who need to be convinced that a wrong step was taken; that despite their current well being, failure to back track and get off the path we’re on is going to end in nothing but tears.

      You doubt that? Then look around you.

      The natural world is saying that you can’t have the life that you have. The natural world is saying that you can’t preserve it or build on it. We can’t fool the natural world, and the natural world is essentially saying that time’s up.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.6.1

        The natural world is saying that you can’t have the life that you have. The natural world is saying that you can’t preserve it or build on it. We can’t fool the natural world, and the natural world is essentially saying that time’s up.

        Gaia doesn’t negotiate and doesn’t take prisoners.

        • Bill

          Yeah well. Neither do basic physics and chemistry – law of thermo-dynamics and all of that jazz.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.6.2


        Aristotle established the fundamental difference between economics and chrematistics. The accumulation of money itself is an unnatural activity that dehumanizes those who practice it. Like Plato, he condemns the accumulation of wealth. Trade exchanges money for goods and usury creates money from money. The merchant does not produce anything: both are reprehensible from the standpoint of their philosophical ethics.

        According to Aristotle, the “necessary” chrematistic economy is licit if the sale of goods is made directly between the producer and buyer at the right price; it does not generate a value-added product. By contrast, it is illicit if the producer purchases for resale to consumers for a higher price, generating added value. The money must be only a medium of exchange and measure of value.

        In other words, according to two of the greatest thinkers of all time – capitalism is unethical and reprehensible.

        • In Vino

          Before Capitalism, Goethe in Faust Part 1 described the human condition. I cannot remember exactly now, but the image is of mankind leaping into the air like a grasshopper, only to find his nose buried in a pile of dung when he comes back down.
          It appears that nothing has changed, despite all our supposed advances.

    • Reddelusion 3.7

      This quote from article says it all

      “The trouble is that stupid hicks don’t know what’s good for them. They’re getting conned by right-wingers and tent revivalists until they believe all the lies that’ve made them so wrong. They don’t know any better. That’s why they’re voting against their own self-interest.”

  3. save NZ 4

    Very good article questioning what we are gaining from our bizarre immigration experiment over the last 15 years in which our non-citizen immigration programme is already one of the largest (per capita) in the world and immigration in Auckland will increase nearly 10% the Auckland population in just National term of government) but over 15 years have gained no economic gains in the tradable sector. But Steven Joyce’s answer is to increase immigration.


    “A reader pointed me to an article on the NBR website in which Science and Innovation Minister [isn’t there something wrong when we even have a government “innovation minister?] was quoted as telling a business audience yesterday that:

    more migration is the only way to bridge the current skills gap for ICT companies in New Zealand.

    “That’s one of the reasons I’m leery of calls to halt immigration – apart from the fact there’s not much reason to because of the economic gains,” he said.

    In the last fifteen years, we have had huge waves of immigration, under both governments, and yet there is not the slightest evidence of economic gains accruing to the New Zealand population as a whole. Tradables sector production per capita has gone nowhere in fifteen years, productivity growth has been lousy, and there is no sign of any progress at all towards meeting Mr Joyce’s own governments (well-intentioned but flawed) exports target.

    And yet the Minister’s answer is even more immigration.”

    • RedBaronCV 4.1

      GDP per head remains static or lowers.
      A lot of ICT gaps have been filled and now the wages are just being lowered. $50000 five years ago, $35000 now.

      The actual skills shortage list that immigration has for jobs that cannot be filled easily, is not large.
      Our points based cutoff lets in skilled people (although there can be a mismatch between their job level description and the local equivalent) who want a job (not to start a company) in the local market.

      The investment category should be removed. I believe Canada did it.
      Where are all the new modern cutting edge factories providing great local jobs and keeping profits local. – I don’t see them – no investment there.
      But plenty in property and political donations – they look like more trouble than they are worth…

    • Draco T Bastard 4.2

      The only way to increase our nations capability in anything is more R&D. As a small nation with huge resources we should have about 25% of our working populace in R&D and probably more. Instead we’re pushing the Bullshit Jobs for all their worth which is nothing.

      Expecting to be able to benefit from imported the skills when those imported skills are then constrained by failed managers is nothing more than vain hope.

      We need to decrease some other sectors as well. Farming comes to mind. Trade isn’t benefiting us as instead of encouraging development the economy it actually forces stagnation. Pushes us to produce more of the same rather than allowing increased productivity to increase the diversity of our economy. The end result is what’s just happened to our farmers with the collapse in milk solid prices.

      • Psycho Milt 4.2.1

        As a small nation with huge resources we should have about 25% of our working populace in R&D and probably more. Instead we’re pushing the Bullshit Jobs for all their worth which is nothing.

        For a case study, see the current destruction of AgResearch at the hands of Joyce-appointed examples of just how bad NZ’s managers are. I can only assume the mismanagement in this case is intentional, so Joyce can later claim that AgResearch is dysfunctional and needs to be privatised or absorbed into other research centres.

        • save NZ

          Speaking of destruction, Paula Bennet has talked about R&D for climate change research AFTER the Natz have just fired a whole load of scientists. They really are idiots.

  4. North 5

    From jonolist Heather Duplicitous Talons…….a risible twist on Nat harpy Michelle Boag’s perennial claim that the housing crisis is largely down to first home buyers refusing to contemplate other than Remuera and St Mary’s Bay.


    Let’s say the millenials do embrace Otara for other than rental investment. Where do the poor people go once they’re shunted out of Otara Heather ? You’ll help them throw up some tents down Meremere way will you Heather ? Idiotic perpetual smirk ‘couldn’t actually give a fuck’ wee jonolist you.

    • maui 5.1

      So much offensiveness in that its hard to know where to begin. Shes quickly becoming the heralds star reporter. The end bit where she says Otara can be recolonised by the rich and renamed Ostentatious Heights is pretty sickening.

      • Olwyn 5.1.1

        So much offensiveness in that its hard to know where to begin… The bit that strikes me is her assumption that people have no attachment to an area – that everyone else is a slightly-worse-off version of herself, with grandiose aspirations and no attachment to anywhere. Here’s a fact: In 2009, someone I know, after getting outbid by property developers a few times on $350,000-$420,000 family sized rundown houses in the Newton-Arch Hill area decided they had to make two moves out, not one, to escape their influence, and did so.

        That is how recently the whole of central Auckland became too good for ordinary mortals, some of whom have been part of that community for generations. A large group of people, from an ever widening area, simply HATE seeing the HDPA class arrive, and look upon improved facilities with fear and suspicion rather than delighted anticipation. It will not be long before people will be happier to see a gang setting up headquarters in their area, than a bunch of HDPA-types deeming it NZ’s latest answer to Tuscany/Manhattan/Paris/you-name-it.

        • weka

          I’m so glad I haven’t read that article.

          If there is one central tennet of neoliberalism it’s that there’s no such thing as community. So people having to move is simply a matter of economics.

          I know that transport costs are a big issue for people too, both in accessing jobs, but also where families are split and children are under shared care. It’s all very well to say that people can move across town but what if they then can’t afford the petrol to pick their kids up? Never mind, all hail the neoliberal machine where everyone else serves Heather Duplicitous’ class.

    • OneTrack 5.2

      The permanently unemployed could be moved to free Housing NZ homes in the provinces. Houses for everyone and reinvigoration of smaller communities.

      • weka 5.2.1

        Your use of grammar and tense in that statement says it all.

        Once you’ve thought about the ethical issues in people being moved, have a think about the effect on existing communities and families. What about kids that are under shared care arrangements? Or solo parents taht are dependent on friends and families for support?

        I think there are huge issues with the numbers of people that want to live in Auckland, but suggesting they can be moved isn’t a useful starting point.

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 5.2.2

        Just skip the house and go back to institutions and poor houses.

        Anyway surely you are more likely to get this:

        Houses for everyone and re-invigoration of smaller communities.

        if you move the rich people out to the small communities – logic would dictate this as much more sensible.

        They could take their businesses with them, there would be less demand for housing in Auckland, local small businesses would get spin-off work from the successful businesses these rich people can build and develop. They wouldn’t need million dollar salaries and lower paid workers could get more.

        So yeah campaign for the rich to move out to the provinces – after all it’s the rich that are our saviours.

      • Tricledrown 5.2.3

        Most state houses in the provinces have been sold off

  5. dave 6

    Where to Invade Next is out

    the school cafeteria in France makes an interesting contrast to new Zealand in fact a lot of whats in the film does the full film is out if you look for it.

  6. save NZ 7

    You have to ask, why the hell are we not importing immigrants who actually create NEW businesses that Create NEW job for KIWIS and export and the criteria is to make a profit?

    Instead we seem to be importing migrants for internal jobs like Chefs and IT workers and wanting immigrants to invest in Auckland property in an already overheated market and P importers.

    Likewise companies here, who’s sole purpose is to take what they can, and then move to the cheapest Labour market.

    For example GameLoft based in Parnell, which by it’s own admission employs only 30% Kiwis and 70% non Kiwis, has received $600,000 in grants, but employees complained of excessive hours. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10875615

    An insider who worked there has alleged they are now moving to Nigeria for cheaper Labour. Many of the migrants they have imported are now alledgedly on the NZ dole queue.

    Game over: NZ’s largest gaming studio to shut

    New Zealand’s largest video gaming studio is closing down and 150 people are losing their jobs.

    Gameloft is a French-owned company which was set up in Auckland ten years ago.


    • dave 7.1

      we are importing immigrates to help bilingenglishl cook the books as there inst much of anything in the economy

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1


        To build and develop the economy then we actually need to build and develop the economy – not hope that someone else will do it for us.

  7. Sanctary 8

    So just talking to this guy from Florida, how about this as a policy. First generation to attend university (defined as grandparents and parents) all fees free and a living allowance paid…

  8. Tricledrown 9

    Exclusive Bretheren found to be extreme child abusers.
    Not a good look for National Party.

  9. Hami Shearlie 10

    Anyone hear Paula Bennett on Q and A this morning – she was talking about climate change and said in the conversation “that’s all hyperbole” (she pronounced it hyper-bowl) – not the best educated woman out there – only outdone by Rodney Hide who years ago talked about a cacophony (he pronounced it “cakka-phoney”) Nice to hear something funny for a change with all the terrible stuff going on!

    • MARY_A 10.1

      Thanks Hami Shearlie (10) … 🙂

      So nice to know our politicians (and ex politicians), those who make the rules and laws, by which we should live, are not the brightest stars in the sky! Well I think we knew that didn’t we? It’s just sometimes they confirm our suspicions regarding their ignorance and stupidity with their ridiculous utterances!

      Geeze where do we get them from?

    • Heather Grimwood 10.2

      To Hami Shearlie at 10: I must have switched Paula Bennet off before that ‘blue’ in pronunciation because the shame I felt that a person with her portfolio could be so unlearned on the subject, indicated the garden more demanding of my time and general well-being! Thank you for providing a wry smile, though surely this Minister has had ample time since becoming our official face on climate change to have attained a real understanding of the issues. I grieve, and because rain ( though welcome ) has arrived, the garden solution no longer possible.

    • miravox 10.3

      As much as I dislike the politics of Paula Bennett, mispronounced word could be because the person is smart enough to read an understand the words, and use them correctly, but may have never heard them. It’s is not necessarily a case of ignorance, but a case of unfamiliarity with the sound of the word.

      Belittling formal education/intellectual heritage is close to calling a person unintelligent. A dangerous assumption, in my experience.

  10. Penny Bright 12

    Seems that a push for PPPs is underway – seen this?

    30 years of research into PPPs – which show why they don’t work?


    PSI released the new report on 18 March 2015 at the “SDGs for Workers”, a Parallel Event sponsored by Global Unions at the NGO CSW Forum during the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women (UNCSW).

    The report assesses the PPP experience in both industrialised and developing countries and contains a combination of 30 years of research by David Hall, former Director of Public Services International Research Unit (PSIRU) University of Greenwich, UK.

    The many case studies analysed, from United Kingdom to Chile, show that PPPs have failed to live up to their promise. In most cases, they are an expensive and inefficient way of financing infrastructure and services, since they conceal public borrowing, while providing long-term state guarantees for profits to private companies.

    The author proposes a public alternative to this system, in which national and local governments can continue to develop infrastructure by using public finance for investment, and public sector organisations to deliver the service.

    “Public services are massive pools of potential corporate profit, and PPPs serve to access them. The ‘clients’ are captive, the services are often monopoly,” comments David Boys, Deputy General Secretary of PSI.

    “This paper provides a synthesis of many years of research, and should be used by union activists, concerned citizens, but also by policy makers around the world.”

    Penny Bright
    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

  11. greywarshark 13

    Sacha mentioned Action Station as being an alternative to political parties. I guess there are some other people like me who haven’t heard about it yet. It sounds promising to be involved with while we wait for Labour to get over its sad case of sleeping sickness.

    We could join in this, and also support our favourite leftie party, and others which are fighting to forge a name for themselves as being honest workers for the people. We are still allowed this freedom, to have multi-interests, and not just board the train and travel the line to wherever.

    ActionStation is an independent, member-led not-for-profit organisation representing over 100,000 Kiwis holding power to account, standing for a fair society, healthy environment & economic fairness.

    Their latest campaign was on freshwater standards.

    • Skinny 13.1

      There not up to it is the problem.

      • greywarshark 13.1.1

        I don’t know much about ActionStation. When I looked them up I liked the look of their web page, nice design. Everyone has to start somewhere. But they are lacking something you think? I just don’t feel confident that enough is happening on the political scene. If there is too much of a void a hologram of Trump might beam over and dazzle us with hijinks.

  12. AsleepWhileWalking 14

    Keiser Report: Secret of TTIP and TPP(A)

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dHZEjJbz0c&w=560&h=315%5D

    • AsleepWhileWalking 14.1

      Japanese President wants to hold back on ratification of TPPA due to fear of voter backlash

      • Bill 14.1.1

        Meanwhile, Obama went undercover for the Brexit crowd in the UK by stating that should the UK opt to leave the EU, then they wouldn’t get to be party to TTIP. Not only that, but the UK would go to the back of the queue as far as ‘negotiating’ any free trade deals with the US was concerned.

        Oh. But then, along with the Clinton, pointed out that the US wanted the UK to remain in Europe to act as leverage for the US in Europe.

        I don’t know why I used ‘but’ for that second statement. Be an economically crushed vassal of the US of A situated on the geographical fringes of Europe, or…well, there is no ‘or’. Apparently those two things are just what the ordinary people of the UK always wanted…I mean, it must be, innit?

  13. For those of you interested in what Bill Black, a man who put over a thousand bankers in jail and who travels around the globe to educate entire Governments about why Control fraud is such a pervasive, hideous form of fraud, has to say about putting a Merrill Lynch banker on the board of Guardians of the Cullen fund and John Key making New Zealand into a secrecy haven also known as a tax haven here is the link to Vinny Eastwood’s show with Bill Black, recorded last WednesdayVinnie Eastwood’s show with Bill Black In the first half Vinny interviews Bill about his work and his past victories over banking fraud. I have the opportunity to ask Bill a ton of questions pertaining to New Zealand in the second hour! Conclusion? John Key is a banker fraudster who should be in jail like his Icelandic colleagues and the Cullen fund is f&*ked!

  14. North 16

    Wow…….this one’s pre-nup’ would be a bastard !


    Herald online’s really cracked a threshhold though…….anything more than cereal, rice, bread…….you’re a wastrel !

  15. Paul 18

    Another silly silly article trying to tell people if you only worked harder and saved harder, they can afford a house in Auckland.
    Luckily most people don’t believe a word the Herald says anymore.


  16. Gangnam Style 19

    “Buying your own house is so hard now it seems, that the @nzherald considers it front page news when someone can afford one.” A pearler from the Twitterverse.

  17. whispering kate 20

    Methinks the tide is beginning to turn with the middle classes, here in Auckland at least. I see from the series of articles in the Herald about the housing situation that some of our middle class people are now housing half of their children in their spare bedrooms and kids in their mid-twenties to thirties at that along with their spouses/partners and professionally educated as well, because they cannot afford a down payment on a house. So even with a professional education and joint salaries they still cannot manage a down payment because of high rents and so they are back living with Mum and Dad. Can see this going down like a lead balloon when Mum and Dad want to kick back and go on a overseas trip.

    Some of the parents are paying for the down payment/deposit, others are buying land for their kids and its taking a dent in their retirement savings. The rot is setting in, a lot of people on this site have said it will have to be the middle classes being affected by the housing crisis here for the tide to turn. Let’s hope and pray this happens and they see what a complete shambles the Auckland market has been turned into by not having good effective restraints on overseas buyers having carte blanche here to buy up our housing stock.

    Some parents may have to, in the end, gift over one or two of their rented properties to the kids and miss out on the income from them. Then we will see them starting to “complain” in a big way. Happy days folks.

    • weka 20.1

      It’s not that long ago when it was normal for people to live in extended family situations. In fact it’s been the norm for most of human history. I know we’ve lost the knack of it, but I don’t see people having to share housing with family as the end of the world, or even necessarily a negative.

      Add to that that the size of housing and expectations around everyone having their own space is not realistic in an age of climate change and resource depletion.

      I have a lot of sympathy for the people who are struggling to pay rent or mortgage, because having a home is central to wellbeing. But it’s hard to feel sorry for the middle classes who are struggling because they are treating home ownership as an investment. I was fortunate to buy and eventually sell a house at a time when it worked financially but I was never under the illusion that it was anything other than a crock of shit that we all pay for and some more than others.

      There’s a lot of bitching between the boomers and their offspring generation but I’d take it more seriously if I saw them being also concerned for people who can’t find a place to live, or who are struggling to have a meaningful life because their housing costs suck up so much of their income. Because let’s not forget that most of the people complaining about the difficulties of home ownership would in a flash buy and sell a house as an investment if they could.

      I really think that we are at the end of the age of privilege, and I hope that the Gen Y wake up to this and start looking at creative solutions to working with what we’ve got. We should be looking at new models of co-housing, sharing land etc and stepping out of the millieu that says buying a home and saving for retirement is the best thing, because it’s all going to fall over in their life times anyway.

      • whispering kate 20.1.1

        I understand Weka completely, but I feel that the tide will turn now as its the Middle Classes which keep voting in this Government and they are starting to feel the effects. I fully agree that we should help our families out and in my own circumstances that is we are doing, giving one of ours a helping hand, the only difference is we have never voted for National and do not condone what they have done to this country. As Bomber over on the Daily Blog says, once the Middle Classes start to bitch and whinge then we may see the tide turn. In the end it will be a battle between the 1% and the rest of us, Middle Classes included. If that’s what it takes, it can’t come soon enough.

  18. greywarshark 21

    Here is another example of our not-wonderful running of our country under free market, low regulation, trust business to know whats best. system failure.
    This from Northland Age

    Federated Farmers Arable Industry Group is watching with interest the increasing tonnage of supplementary feeds being imported.
    This, at a time, when there is leftover maize and cereal feed grain which could be consumed by these sectors for an equally competitive price.

    Maize harvest has begun in the North Island and in many cases they have had an exceptional growing season but the low dairy payout and cheap price of palm kernel expeller have meant they don’t have a home for the product.
    Some, meanwhile, are burning the maize in the paddock and writing the season off.

    Imported feeds risk bringing in new weeds, pests and diseases. While New Zealand has import health standards to try to manage these risks, sometimes things slip through the cracks. (Latest is something called velvet leaf, looks a bit like bindweed.)

    • weka 21.1

      Velvet leaf came in with imported fodder beet seed. Looks like fodder beet is a newish crop desired by dairy farmers. Don’t know why NZ can’t grow its own seed.

      Neoliberal, market knows best, system failure, exactly.



      • greywarshark 21.1.1

        The fodder beet bit interested me too. I think it was fodder beet developed to withstand Roundup that was involved in a large number of cow deaths. Those beets had concentrated toxins in the leaves due to some climatic effect.

        So that raises the questions – why are beets being more used, why is the seed imported, do all farmers understand the proper use of it and the times the animals need to be withheld from it, are they taking a risk on using it and then claiming on insurance if it turns out badly, is it something to lay on the now shown as unprofitable over-stocking with non-grass extra feed method?

        Are farmers being sold a sick system that is rebounding on them?

        (And about imported stuff there was a piece in The Press about searching for the entry point of black grass that is being found in the middle of paddocks, and is not wanted. A little para says it has nothing to do with the roadside drop of tainted seed from trucks carting it to and from the big agricultural importing companies. The plants are growing too far away to result from any dropped seed at roadsides. But weeds are those plants that have amazing reproductive powers and they find ways to get around. A cover up for our big corporates making money from modern industrial farming-with warnings ‘contains collateral damage’?)

        • weka

          The roundup ready issue was with swedes. Both happened inSouthland.

          The politics of who controls the world’s seed stores is a major issue for NZ food security. Lots of good work has been done on preserving NZ’s seed banks but if we had a hard crash I think we’d be struggling.

          Same old shit. This is why I place relocalisation so high in political priorities. The sooner we get the stuff that matters out of the hands of the greedy people the better all round.

  19. greywarshark 22

    Just another bit on velvet leaf piece earlier that raises questions for the country. That is whether subsidies are good for farmers and the country in certain situations like this. If the MPI is called will they charge the farmer? If so they may not be called and not get to know the extent of the infestation.

    MPI will make arrangements for removing the plants, inspect the rest of the crop to ensure there are no more plants and then together with FAR, DairyNZ have developed a farm management plan to manage the velvetleaf to prevent it being moved around the farm or out the gate.

    Better to help the farmer and we bear the cost. Better not to allow this Lazy Maisey government free market leave everything to business no regulation contract out stuff to continue. It isn’t working for us. And remember contractors work to rule, in a different way to unionists, but it is still damaging to the country to have people tied to set parameters who must ignore matters outside their contract that need investigation or attention, because they are not being paid to do so.

  20. Bea Brown 23

    Well said Miravox. I find it unpleasant when people mock the pronunciation or spelling of others as a sign of their own intellectual superiority – which it rarely is. Some towering geniuses have been rotten spellers.
    Whatever we think of her politics, Paula Bennett has an impressive career after starting as a young solo mum, going to university and rising in the political ranks where she has had some demanding roles. It doesn’t help to ridicule successful women and often verges on misogyny.
    However I did have to laugh at Mihi Forbes this morning on Radio NZ talking about the first ‘calvary’ charge in a NZ battle. She said it over and over again so it was clearly an unfamiliar word for her despite radio and TV announcing being the profession she is supposedly trained for.

    • Anne 23.1

      Try to remember to hit the reply button in future Bea Brown then your comment will come up beneath – or closely beneath – the person you are replying to.

      As for your fit of pique over a few grins concerning Bennett’s mispronunciation:

      Ms Bennett has done well but to describe her as having had an impressive career is over the top given she just happened to be in the right place at the right time and… knew the right people. Her actual qualifications have been attained by many, many thousands of young NZers – lots of them in far more straitened circumstances than herself. In fact from what I’ve heard… she may have been a solo mum but her situation was never straitened.

      More important is her language in respect of Climate Change matters. She has a very superficial understanding of the subject -if she has even that – and that is deeply disturbing for a Minister of Climate Change! There is also historical evidence of her spiteful, bullying behaviour towards anyone who dares to cross her, so I personally don’t mind people having a giggle or two over a mispronounced word. Not a big deal in the scheme of things.

      • Bea Brown 23.1.1

        ‘fit of pique’;’in the right place at the right time and… knew the right people’; ‘she may have been a solo mum but her situation was never straitened’; ‘very superficial understanding of the subject’; ‘spiteful, bullying’.

        • weka

          You really are in the wrong place of you want to praise Bennett and not have people disagree with you.

          • Bea Brown

            So we have to show unalloyed hatred?
            That goes way beyond disagreement.
            What does that remind me of?
            Two legs good four legs bad…

            And I love the notion of degrees of solo motherhood.

            • McFlock

              Nope. We don’t have to do a damned thing.

              But if you share your opinion, don’t be surprised when others share theirs.

              You might think it’s just sloganeering, others might feel that the minister responsible for social welfare has not just overseen increased hardship and degradation of those who need help from society, but has in several instances denied people the assistance that she herself received when she walked, however fleetingly, in their shoes.

              Personally I have nothing but contempt for the person.

            • weka

              You said something. Someone disagreed with it. You don’t like that someone disagreed with you. I’m just pointing out that that won’t work on this site, esp if the disagreement is over Paula Bennett. You might want to read the site policy too, top of the page.

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