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Open mike 24/07/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 24th, 2013 - 176 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

176 comments on “Open mike 24/07/2013 ”

  1. Jenny 1

    There has been a lots of reports recently about how the oceans have been acting as a heat sink for all the excess heat in the atmosphere caused by global warming. This heat sink effect has slowed the rise in temperature of the atmosphere. But what has been the affect in the oceans?

    Warmer water holds less oxygen. The tropics are actually extreme environments for fish. Though tropical waters support many brilliant and exotic species, When it comes to actual biomass. The biomass density of the tropics are not anything like the huge marine biomass supported by the oxygen rich cold waters of the temperate and polar regions.

    A study carried out by the Fisheries Centre, University of British Columbia and published in the prestigious Nature magazine, has revealed that fish are on the move, away from warmer waters, to colder waters.

    French Scientist Daniel Pauly, project leader for the study is interviewed by Kathryn Ryan.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2563045/fish-move-as-oceans-warm

    In the past the problem of overfishing has been addressed by all sorts of complicated international agreements and treaties. But the movement of fish stocks is creating all sorts of political problems for the management of fisheries which could see the collapse of all previous agreements.
    In the North Atlantic, between Norway and Iceland for example, there was an agreement to share the mackerel fishery, in what was called a “straddling stock” fishery. What happened was that the mackerel moved into the waters of Iceland and the sharing agreement didn’t apply anymore. (8:00 minutes)

    It looks likely that this kind of thing will happen more and more. This is creating a temptation to tear up all international agreements over fish stock management and strip mine the fishery before it moves to your neighbors territory.

    In West Africa. In Senegal the fishery is moving to the north and into the waters of Mauritania. The temptation for Senegal is to take as much as they can before they lose it.

    The management of global fish stocks are being affected.

    In the North Pacific the stock of pollock, (which is the biggest fishery in the world). The US Alaskan pollock fishery is moving gradually towards Russia. (9:00 minutes)

    The question is, What will the US do, when their fishery moves into the waters of another country, and a political rival at that?

    Some fish of course, are so adapted to their local environment, salinity, certain types of reef, or food source, of a certain kind, that they can’t move, these sorts of fisheries are just simply in decline. (7:00 minutes in.)

    Many fish species will not make the change. In the tropics fisheries are moving away and won’t be replaced. As with other, effects of climate change, sea level rise, and storm surges, the cruelty of climate change will impact many people in the third world already hard hit by the other effects of climate change particularly hard.

    Of course as well as absorbing the excess heat, the seas have also been absorbing a lot of the excess CO2, leading to acidification of the oceans. But that is a whole other kettle of fish.

    • tc 1.1

      In gwyn dyers book ‘climate wars’ he details the department of the US govt, created under bush the elder i think, that runs scenarios on the land version of this which would see huge population shift across borders in search of workable land and food.

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

        And the US response? A massive homeland security apparatus.

        • AmaKiwi 1.1.1.1

          The CIA has said for some time that climate change is the greatest threat to stability (i.e., no wars). Of course, whether that filters down into constructive political action is a roll of the dice.

  2. Jenny 2

    As is my habit I don’t like to just lay out the problem. Though it may get me into trouble, I like to suggest solutions.

    Climate Change is not something that will happen in the far future. It is happening now.

    As we begin to witness the destruction and cruelties visited by climate change.

    New Zealand has a role to play, maybe a major one.

    The problems are obvious the need to act is immediate.

    This requires leadership. As in 1939 as the world witnessed the cruelties visited by fascism. It required just one island country to stand up and say, “no more”. “We will fight”.

    In France which had one of biggest armies in Europe and would have well been able to stop the Nazis. There was not that same leadership. French Prime MinisterPetain who had been a military hero in the First world war, capitulated to the Nazis without a fight.

    We are a global witness to the cruelties visited by climate change. We need a Churchill and not a Petain. We don’t need a leader who was a hero in the UN but is now a silent calculating political collaborator with the supporters of climate change. Preparing to surrender over deep sea oil drilling and major coal mine expansion.

    To face the threat of climate change the country needs a Churchill not a Petain. Could David Cunliffe be that Churchill?

    Maybe.

    So far David Cunliffe is the only Labour parliamentarian to properly address the threat posed by climate change.

    http://www.labour.org.nz/news/speech-the-dolphin-and-the-dole-queue

    Like Churchill, Cunliffe has been banished to the back seats for his pains.

    He should not let this silence him.

    The leader is not the one who has the title, the leader is the one who gives the lead.

    If he wants to lead, he needs to show it. David Cunliffe needs to start speaking out now on the biggest threat humanity has faced since fascism.

    Churchill spent 10 years in the wilderness. He never shut up about the dangers of fascism. Hopefully Cunliffe will only spend months on the back benches. But he needs to start speaking up now.

    Responding to the lack of leadership at the top of his party, Winstone Churchill led from the back benches, David Cunliffe should start doing the same.

    Cunliffe should not see his demotion from official leadership position as a setbback but as an opportunity to speak freely.

    “Churchill’s efforts through the wilderness years had shown the importance of independent voices in a highly controlled political environment” (p8). Churchill, through his position, was able to bring concerns into the public arena that might otherwise have been drowned out in the mood of appeasement and pacifism of 1930s Britain.

    Sir Martin Gilbert The Wilderness Years

    (Dumped into moderation again, I see. I wonder if the censor will let me out?)

    • Jenny 2.1

      (Dumped into moderation again, I see. I wonder if the censor will let me out?)

      Jenny

      So far it seems not. Oh well. Off to work. It is raining and dreary. I hope the rest of my day goes better and the censor has relented by the time I get back.

      For those interested. The comment held back, is on leadership and climate change.

      • karol 2.1.1

        Censorship? You kid yourself about the responses of a machine.

        • Agneya 2.1.1.1

          Jenny, I think it is the amount of coffee you drink in the morning – it is hard to compete and puts us – mere mortals – in the shade.

          Who was it that said brevity is the soul of wit ?

          • Puddleglum 2.1.1.1.1

            Polonius in Hamlet – giving advice to Hamlet.

            The irony is that Polonius was in the midst of a long exposition.

            He [the character] had other good quotes: “Neither a lender nor a borrower be”; “To thine own self be true”.

      • mickysavage 2.1.2

        Jenny the use of the word that describes the ruling party in Germany during the second world war causes the machine to dump you into moderation.

    • Chooky 2.2

      + 1 Jenny Thanks

      Cunliffe is the only one with the intellect and the integrity

    • AmaKiwi 2.3

      Climate change wars date back to 1967, probably much earlier.

      Israeli government documents have been released that show the June 1967 Six Day War had been in the planning stages for years. Its goal was to control the Jordan River, Israel’s source of fresh water.

      The Golan Heights are the source of the Jordan. Taking the West bank from Jordan gave them control of both sides of the river.

      At the time there tons of propaganda about how the Arabs were threatening Israel and theirs were preventive first strikes. All pure b.s. It was planned as a war to secure water. They achieved their objective.

  3. Saarbo 3

    “It is understood Mr Shearer had been looking for a suitable political adviser for some time, and asked Mold to return because of concerns Labour was struggling with its political management since her departure.”

    Excerpt from Claire Trevett this morning.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10902145

    Has David Shearer got a mirror. “Labour was struggling with its political management since her departure….” This stubborn fool fails to have the self awareness that he is fucking up the hopes of the Left of getting rid of this abysmal John Key government. Clearly National have 3 strategies for growth 1) Earthquakes 2) Dairy farming (Commodities, no control) 3)Now they seem to have added Auckland Housing (this should eventually create a bubble that NZ managed to avoid in the first GFC).

    You have to admit that although Shearer is absolutely hopeless he must be mentally tough because if I’d read as much criticism about myself has he has had to endure, I would be balling my eyes out lying in the fetal position. He is either mentally tough or he has John Keys narcissism and self confidence without his political ability…

    • Lanthanide 3.1

      “he must be mentally tough”

      All politicians are made of stern stuff, they have to be, because they’re never going to please everyone all the time.

      Also, he probably just doesn’t read any of it; he claims not to read blogs remember.

    • hush minx 3.2

      Actually I think they were struggling while she was still there too… 2011 result and all.

    • Bearded Git 3.3

      I know its a crappy Herald online poll but even so 71% of people say that changing Shearer’s chief of staff won’t make any difference. (Today’s NZH)

    • Draco T Bastard 3.4

      This stubborn fool fails to have the self awareness that he is fucking up the hopes of the Left of getting rid of this abysmal John Key government.

      Actually, he’s not – the people who still support Labour are. Yes, Shearer isn’t changing Labour but it’s the continued support for the party that keeps Shearer there.

      Clearly National have 3 strategies for growth

      4) Dig up and sell our scarce energy resources ASAP

  4. vto 4

    John Key is at his lying best again, saying yesterday on morning tele regarding the Chch and Wgtn earthquakes and buildings ……. “akshully, if you look at Christchurch and the building code, the vast majority of buildings came through it well”

    John Key is a lying pig.

    In Christchurch CBD about 80% of the buildings have come down. That leaves 20% that have come through it well, far from a “vast majority”.

    He just keeps making shit up as he goes. And the dipshits on the tele and radio keep letting him get away with these lies. They are useless.

    • Rosie 4.1

      vto, that statement of Key’s is just plain offensive. What do your fellow Cantabrian’s think of him?

      Every time he addresses the nation with what is meant to be soothing sounds and reflective thoughts on life changing disaster (Pike River, CHCH earthquakes) he’s so insincere that he makes me want to vomit.

      And recently when he spoke about the 6.5 here in Wellington, and Marlborough his face was saying “I couldn’t give a flying fuck, and Wellington, you’d be better off slipping into the sea anyway, your city is dying” and all that came out of his mouth was blah blah blah.

      Man, I really wanted to throw a brick at the tele.

      • vto 4.1.1

        What do Cantabrians think of him? If you are in the west and blue-voting areas you will think he is grand. Your houses tiny wee cracks got repaired first (while the worst ones waited), your roads and infrastructure are fine, your house value is rising and there is employment coming out your ears.

        If you are in the east you have simply given up completely on him and this government. Key doesn’t even come into ti anymore – the vote decision is already made for these people. The arsehole is gone-burger

      • David H 4.1.2

        Buy a Kiddies stuffed brick, it’s quite soothing to throw it at the TV. if your lucky it will have sound effects ie glass breaking.

      • Anne 4.1.3

        Man, I really wanted to throw a brick at the tele.

        Man, in my dreams I really want to throw a brick at Key. A large one with very sharp edges. 🙂

        [lprent: Don’t care if it is in your dreams or not – keep your more violent fantasies to yourself. 😈 ]

    • Lanthanide 4.2

      Um, he’s actually right, vto.

      The point of the building code is to save lives during an earthquake. We had two serious collapses, and lots of deaths from masonry and facades that didn’t meet the building code. It seems that the two buildings that collapsed didn’t properly meet the building code…

      After everyone has evacuated safely, the building has done it’s job.

      • felix 4.2.1

        That’s bullshit.

        If your house had been knocked down would you say it had “come through it well”?

        • Lanthanide 4.2.1.1

          If I had happened to be in it at the time, I’d be glad it didn’t collapse on my head, yes.

          • Colonial Viper 4.2.1.1.1

            Ideally the building remains structurally sound, even after a 6.5 magnitude.

      • vto 4.2.2

        Um, that’s not what he was referring to Lanthanide.

        That buildings stayed upright and allowed people to escape as per the building code is not the same matter as John Key stating that most buildings came through it well i.e. they are useable and safe post-earthquake. 80% of Chch CBD buildings are down because they are no longer useable or safe.

        John Key plastered a deception on the country as it nervously looks at every single building in the land.

        Hope all those building owners are out there securing their facades and verandahs today ……….

        • Lanthanide 4.2.2.1

          You’re saying John Key is deliberately deceiving everyone by claiming that buildings performed well in the sense that they didn’t fall over, when it is really quite obvious that a lot of buildings did fall over.

          My suggestion is:
          1. Key is conflating the idea of performing well as in not killing people with performing well as in not falling over.
          2. Key is an idiot to do the above.

          Don’t ascribe to malice that which is easily attributed to incompetence.

          • vto 4.2.2.1.1

            To Key I ascribe incompetence, slackness and malice. In equal proportions.

          • Puddleglum 4.2.2.1.2

            Don’t ascribe to malice that which is easily attributed to incompetence.

            I think that’s generally a good rule of thumb but it does overlook the fact that much incompetence is the result of malice/disdain/complacency (over the interests of others)/negligence (of the interests of others)/etc.

            The distinction is not that sharp. And that’s why people can say something misleading while claiming no deliberate lying.

            • felix 4.2.2.1.2.1

              Exactly.

              I can’t believe people are still falling for Key’s style of non-specific lying.

      • Tracey 4.2.3

        The building code is performance based. IF buildings have performed tot he minimum standards of A to G or however many there are, then the Code has not “worked” rather the building has “performed” tot he minimum requirements of the Code.

        People need to stop viewing codes and laws as setting the maximum standard of behaviour, it’s setting the minimum and people can construct buildings in excess of that if they choose. Strange in commercial buildings they rarely do.

        • vto 4.2.3.1

          There is a lot of construction in Christchurch that is in excess of code going on. It is driven by owners who do not want to have to deal with it all again – they want a building that will handle a quake and be useable again. These parts of a building are relatively small and easy to take above code.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.2.3.1.1

            It is driven by owners who do not want to have to deal with it all again

            And a lot of them probably decided that after the quake and not before it. Beforehand they would have been building to minimum code and probably taking shortcuts to save money.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.2.3.2

          People need to stop viewing codes and laws as setting the maximum standard of behaviour, it’s setting the minimum and people can construct buildings in excess of that if they choose. Strange in commercial buildings they rarely do.

          Which is why standards should be set at present maximum capabilities and increase as capabilities do.

    • quokka 4.3

      My sentiments, exactly.

    • Tim 4.4

      yep but remember vto, Gerry Brownlee always had a scorched Earth policy – turn it into a carpark and start again. Demolish demolish demolish to a level ground – then get the developers in.

      You’ll remember a couple of places were sacrosanct (eg the Arts Centre). Other than that – knock it ALL down – start again (City first).

      None of ya try and preserve any sort of history (such as demolish to safe level and let something evolve where its on safe turf). He’d probably have let Fulton Hogan tarseal the lot if he could have got a reasonable price and his insurance mates had seen an earn it it all.

      I wonder what’s he going to try and do with Wellington now. The approach won;t work here.

    • RedLogix 4.5

      akshully, if you look at Christchurch and the building code, the vast majority of buildings came through it well

      Well that’s fair enough insofar as the vast majority of buildings did not collapse and kill their occupants in the face of extremely large ground accelerations. Well beyond what the codes required and what they largely achieved. I’d call that “coming through it well”. The same quake in most other cities around the world would have resulted a death toll in the 10’s of thousands.

      Of course you are also right that huge numbers of buildings were damaged beyond economic repair. That’s a related but largely different issue. No building code anywhere required or anticipated that.

      The real problem has been the failure of the EQC, originally set up in 1945 in the wake of a number of major quakes, Napier, Buller, Masterton. The lesson learnt from this experience was that the private insurance industry is inherently unable to cope with events of this scale. A lesson subsequent governments proceeded to completely forget.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.5.1

        Governments seem real good at forgetting lessons learned from the past if doing so benefits their corporate benefactors.

    • democracy 4.6

      Yeah mate its about time someone took the little shit out the back for a good thrashing, thats about what he deserves

  5. felix 5

    “Future King of New Zealand”?

    Get fucked John Key, you don’t even belong here yourself.

    • drevil 5.1

      Why not, number 2 ?

    • Tracey 5.2

      And he couldn’t help himself be a smarmy prick by welcoming the “future king of New Zealand”: yesterday.

      Where did our child of an Austrian immigrant get such royalist sycophancy from?

      • scotty 5.2.1

        The realisation that 50mil just dosent cut it in the circles ,Sir John Key wants to move in.

        • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.1

          I never got a clear answer on this, its NZ$50M, or is it US$50M?

          If its the former its a bit weak, if its the latter, its maybe middling

      • Winston Smith 5.2.2

        Why shouldn’t he? Hes a born and bred NZer as much as anyone here and if thats how he thinks then thats his choice, don’t like then wait another 4 years and you’ll be able to change it.

        • Santi 5.2.2.1

          4 years? 4 long, long years? I despair.
          I’m counting on David Shearer to be the next PM. Go David, go.

          • Colonial Viper 5.2.2.1.1

            I really love your optimistic outlook on life.

            • McFlock 5.2.2.1.1.1

              Santi would be saying the same thing about cunliffe if the vote had gone the other way. Anything to make the chicken littles flutter and squawk in a delightful way…

              • Santi

                No, McFlock, I wouldn’t.
                I know David Shearer is the leader who will make victory possible next year. More time and eloquence is all he needs. I just know.

                • I congratulate you. Your wall of sarcasm is impenetrable. You haven’t let it slip in ages.

                • Tim

                  Christ Santi!!! it’s almost like the hero worship is getting to sugar-daddy level

                  • North

                    Skanky is a broken record – can see him/her guffawing his/her tits off every time the same masterSTROKE is delivered – “I just LOVE David Shearer ” – (thinks……) “Ha……fucked them up again…….my cunning plan is working !”

                    Yawn yawn Skanky.

        • Tracey 5.2.2.2

          He even remembered the prince on the lawn with a buzzy bee but cant for the life of himself recall if he was pro or anti springbok tour…

          I just wondered how a child of his background became so royalist

          • Draco T Bastard 5.2.2.2.1

            It’s the basic authoritarianism in him. Authoritarians look up to people with titles such as King and Queen. I read an article many years ago about how surprisingly much USians were in awe of the British royal family – this was especially noted in richer families. The richer families were even going out and buying British titles.

    • Tigger 5.3

      +1. He’d better hope he gets that knighthood before there’s a change in government.

    • bad12 5.4

      The sickening rush of fawning over this birth of one who will spend a life of luxury paid for off of the backs of the working people of Britain has my TV on the endangered species list,

      At the least there should be ‘naming rights’ given to the people who will pay for this ones life long idyll of excess by dint of the luck of being born into that particular family,

      For the Princely(spit) little fella i pick the name Sponge, arise Sir Sponge to take your un-earned place of wealth and fame paid for off of the backs of British labor…

      • BM 5.4.1

        You may find this interesting

        The True Cost of the Royal Family Explained:

        • bad12 5.4.1.1

          So what???, does the average unemployed Brit get 40 million pound a year, free world travel and various other perks,

          Shove the whole bludging lot of them into some flats in the tower blocks of an English housing estate and pay them all the dole,

          The Soprano’s of great Britain living off of the proceeds of the families previous crimes is as kind as what i can get…

          • Colonial Viper 5.4.1.1.1

            Sorry, but if you had the people of the UK vote on your proposal, it would be defeated 3:1.

          • Brett Dale 5.4.1.1.2

            Dont follow the royals at all, dont care either way, but arent the two boys in the military.

            • felix 5.4.1.1.2.1

              There better be more to this story Brett. Come on, don’t leave us hanging.

              • I mean they’re not just hanging around the palace, eating big chicken wings, cutting their wifes heads off, like the old days.

                Arent they actually working, like I said I dont follow the royals much.

                But i wouldnt like to be one, to have no privacy etc etc.

    • King Kong 5.5

      Right on Felix. Fucking Jews, eh?

      (I presume thats what you were referring to when you said John Key doesn’t belong here. I can’t think of any other reason)

      • tricledrown 5.5.1

        Primitive Primate Bullying again John Key is an atheist by his own admission!
        Felix is saying is Key got his hand up from our welfare state (which is a reflection of kiwis caring and sharing team playing egalitarian society)!
        Now after taking all the advantages of our society he is in charge of helping destroy our heritage!
        Hitlers mother was a jew as well as Austrian!

      • Tracey 5.5.2

        Why do you presume that and why would you even be thinking it?

        • felix 5.5.2.1

          I love it when bigots out themselves by assuming everyone thinks they way they do.

          Why does KK think it makes sense to say someone doesn’t belong here if they’re Jewish?

          Is Key actually Jewish? Does it matter? Does anyone (apart from n@zis) care if he is?

          What a strange thing for a monkey to be concerned with.

          • tinfoilhat 5.5.2.1.1

            I don’t like Key’s politics either but I don’t know what you meant by your comment about him not belonging here ?

            Perhaps you should clarify to calm the baboon down.

            • felix 5.5.2.1.1.1

              I’m not responsible for the emotions of baboons.

              As for not belonging, I mean he doesn’t appear to share the values usually credited to the NZ way of life (broad though they may be.)

              He left this country as soon as he could, and only came back to live in a walled palace. He leaves whenever he has the chance and spends as much time overseas as he can in the places he feels at more at home.

              When he is here – and this is the important bit – he spends his time trying to transform NZ into a place more like those places he has chosen to spend most of his life.

              He continually negotiates away our independence and sovereignty in favour of the interests of foreign and international capital.

              He is not on our side of anything. His needs are not our needs. His problems are not our problems. His goals are not our goals.

              That’s what I mean. Alternately I could have just meant he’s a Jew.

              • King Kong

                See, there you go. It may have taken 24 hours but you thought of something in the end.

                • felix

                  🙄 It wasn’t me who leapt to the conclusion that Jews don’t belong in NZ you horrible bigot.

                  I was never in any doubt about what I said, and I’m still in no doubt that you won’t understand it.

      • felix 5.5.3

        KK I’m not surprised you can’t think of any other reason. You stopped at the reason that makes sense to you.

        It’s not one that even crossed my mind.

        • King Kong 5.5.3.1

          From your original bile spit, one could only assume that the reason that you thought the Royals didn’t belong here was because they are British thus it was a natural inference to believe that your objection to John Key being here was race based as well.

          • Te Reo Putake 5.5.3.1.1

            Being Jewish isn’t a racial characteristic. Silly Monkey.

          • felix 5.5.3.1.2

            “From your original bile spit, one could only assume that the reason that you thought the Royals didn’t belong here was because they are British”

            If you were a complete thickie – which seems to be the case – that might well be the only reason you could come up with.

            “thus it was a natural inference to believe that your objection to John Key being here was race based as well.

            Yes, that piece of idiocy follows perfectly from your first piece of idiocy. Doesn’t make it true though.

            Have an apple.

            • King Kong 5.5.3.1.2.1

              I notice you still haven’t mentioned what it was you were basing your eviction order on yet.

              Just saying.

              • McFlock

                Did you belong in New York, monkeyboy? No. Because you trashed the place. Even if you’d been born in the NYC zoo, you’d still have trashed the place. You obviously didn’t belong there.

              • felix

                “I notice you still haven’t mentioned what it was you were basing your eviction order on yet.

                Just saying.”

                Ah, I love it. “I didn’t understand anything you said so I assumed you were thinking like me (a racist idiot) and worked backward from there.”

                Fucking moron.

          • North 5.5.3.1.3

            KonKing @ 5.5.3.1 – specious, criminally specious. You thick or something ?

    • Enough is Enough 5.6

      why not?

      You are beginning to sound like the sewer did in ’06-’08 re Clark

    • AmaKiwi 5.7

      Key doesn’t want to be King. That would mean it would have to retire in this backwater hick country.

  6. Tracey 6

    Did anyone else see the tweet alleging that Fairfax had banned its reporters from writing about Professor Wade’s visit to NZ?

    http://fearfactsexposed.wordpress.com/2013/07/21/fairfax-bans-reporters-from-covering-inequality/

    I googled stuff.co.nz just now (I admit that is not a very scientific analysis of the veracity of the claim) and just found the reporting on English and the finger pointing.

    • David H 6.1

      I Emailed the Editor about it And he said it was Untrue. So I did comment that I then expected to see an honest critique of Professor Wades Lectures/Speeches. And to that, there was no reply, and I haven’t seen anything anywhere else either, maybe I’m not looking in the right places.

      • Tracey 6.1.1

        I hear you. I guess there’s just so many more inter sting things to report on…

      • Rosie 6.1.2

        Good on you David H. Though I’m not surprised you didn’t hear back from the stuffed editor, and your second point. They come across as quite arrogant if challenged or questioned about their ‘work’. Thanks for the tip about the non destructive brick!

        • David H 6.1.2.1

          Hi Rosie. My Pleasure, if you cant get a brick I do know they make a Hammer with the sound effects, My son gets annoyed when I pinch it to hit the TV with, but he’s learning that when ever Key is on TV, bang there goes his little Hammer.

  7. bad12 7

    Have just had a read of the Mana Party Housing Policy being put forward by John Minto, it ticks all the boxes with policy to drive out of the housing market all the Speculators/Investors which is where fully 50% of present ‘demand’ in the Auckland housing market lies,

    Along with such moves which would guarantee a large reduction on the demand side of ‘the market’ Mana is also proposing ‘fixing’ the amount of rent that can be charged on any particular dwelling,along with having the building of 20,000 Council owned rental units well under way in the first term of a Mana Mayoralty,

    As far as a comprehensive housing policy goes,(there’s a lot more of it than i have mentioned above), this so far from all political party’s on a national level would be the most comprehensive and ensure affordable rental accommodation for all those unable to ever afford home ownership,

    i hope the Mana candidate John Minto does well in the Auckland Mayoralty contest, although i would have to stretch my imagination by an extreme extent,(unfortunately), to suggest that He could triumph in this contest,

    Mana tho has recently broached the 1% party vote to figure in the Roy Morgan Poll and i am now re-considering where my party vote will go in 2014 as 1.2% of the party vote may be all that Mana need to gain another MP via their party list…

    • Santi 7.1

      Minto will be lucky to get 500 votes. He has no hope at all. None whatsoever.
      I’m afraid your vote will be wasted.

      • bad12 7.1.1

        i am afraid that as usual you don’t have a clue what your talking about, have i suggested anywhere that i will be voting in the Auckland Mayoral elections,

        i would have to be really ‘spethul’ should i be allowed to do such as you obviously havn’t noticed that i reside in Wellington,

        i would pick John Minto gaining 2-3000 votes in the Auckland Mayoral election and a lot of extra publicity for the Mana Party simply by dint of having stood in that particular contest,

        The Mana Party’s share of the party vote after the recent by election in Parekura’s old stomping ground has risen to 1% and the Auckland Mayoral election will raise their profile further, thus a strong campaign by John Minto may just be the impetus at the 2014 election to push Mana over 1.2% of the party vote and allow Minto to enter the Parliament on the Mana Party list…

        • Santi 7.1.1.1

          I was referring to your vote in the next general election. Minto is a no-show with little chance.
          That’s democracy: go ahead and waste your vote. New Zealand will thank you.

          • bad12 7.1.1.1.1

            Nice ‘slither’ sideways, i wont bother making any accusation that your a liar, support of Slippery the current Prime Minister tho is tantamount to an admission…

      • tricledrown 7.1.2

        Santi you are a great motivator of the left.Minto is a firebrand personality at least he bring issues to the fore while he may not get many votes other candidates will benefit from his activism!

      • Tracey 7.1.3

        um, by your “logic” anyone who doesn’t vote for the “winning team” has wasted their vote? Do you really see the future of our country as a game to be won and lost. Your na-na-na-na-na attitude is scarey.

      • North 7.1.4

        Skanky @ 7.1……..you want a sizeable wager on that 500 votes thing you just tossed out re Minto…….let me see, $3K ? Even money ?

        No you say ? Oh OK then. That was just a figure of speech to convey you don’t fancy Minto’s chances ?

        Right you are ! Entirely permissible !

        A valid device which just by happenchance has saved you performing and me reading the perennial troll wank – “Fuck……I just LOVE David Shearer !

        [lprent: I got tired of that meme. ]

    • David H 7.2

      So in other words we can just wait with baited breath for the attacks to start, similar to the attacks on the Greens, and Labour.

    • David H 7.3

      A good point, here in the Otaki electorate there is a dearth of votable stock I have absolutely no clue who even sat here in 08, I just ticked the usual red boxes. Well not this time, Maybe a mp vote Legalise Cannabis, and Party vote Mana. I do like what they are saying on a wide range of things.

      • bad12 7.3.1

        i am picking the 2014 election to be as ‘tight’ as 2011, it may well come down to 1 or 2 MP’s and i also pick the Maori Party not to be present in the next Parliament,

        My heart says i should stick with the Green Party, BUT, my head says that if Mana can maintain it’s 1% of polling in the Roy Morgan into 2014 AND the Green Party holds it’s present level of support then a vote for Mana is DEFINTELY NOT wasted,

        It will only take 1.2% of support for Mana to gain a list MP off of the back of Hone Harawira holding onto Te Tai Tokerau AND, i pick Te Ururoa Flavell’s Waiariki seat to be 50/50 between Labour and the Mana Party,

        To me the numbers say there is a good chance of having in the next Parliament a 3 seat bloc of Mana Party MP’s and a ‘strategic’ party vote or two for that party could be the difference in who forms the next Government…

        • marty mars 7.3.1.1

          Good stuff bad.

          I think Mana are poised well at this stage of the cycle. The key will be to overcome the innate fear that some have that it is a narrow focus party and sadly I think that fear comes from people’s personal prejudice and distrust (because they believe the memes, think they know the history of this country and have bought into the othering of Māori). I’m hopeful that that will be overcome for many because the truth is that poverty and deprivation can, and do, affect anyone regardless of their supposed ‘colour’. Equality, leadership and principles are what we need and those qualities are human qualities not based upon ethnicity.

          • bad12 7.3.1.1.1

            Aha, i am not sure of the strength of Mana in Wellington, among young Maori i know that the Maori Party ‘sellout’ has retarded their political development,

            i will, this afternoon after i have done my stint in the garden have a look online with a view to offering Mana a bit of on the ground support going into 2014…

        • Augustus 7.3.1.2

          You might be right about the support level of Mana, but could you see Shearer forming a working relationship with Mana? I can’t. He’d rather coalesce with National. In fact I can see that coming quite easily if there is no other majority (one that doesn’t include Mana).

          • Colonial Viper 7.3.1.2.1

            Ahh, its been a long time since we had a Grand Coalition ruling the nation. No more need for elections after that.

            • McFlock 7.3.1.2.1.1

              Well, while CV’s winning an emmy for melodrama, anyone recall reading about forbes & coates?

              Opened the way for Labour in the first place.

          • McFlock 7.3.1.2.2

            If you think labour could “coalesce with national”, they’ve a much bigger identity issue than shearer. And I don’t just mean a couple of other mps in caucus.

          • Lefty 7.3.1.2.3

            There are plenty of people in Mana that would be totally opposed to their party doing any sort of a deal with the right wing Labour Party under any circumstances simply because there is no reason to suppose a Labour government would be an improvement on the present lot.

            Unless you count having a nicer flavour of rhetoric and murmuring sweet nothings to the people at the bottom as they put the boot into them as being an improvement.

            Thats unless they are different to every Labour govt since 1984 of course.

          • bad12 7.3.1.2.4

            Augustus, i will assume you are a National Party voter,(Lolz if so i expect your next comment to be along the lines of a ‘wasted vote’),

            Mana has and does support Labour in it’s voting pattern in the House, until today when i read the Mana Party housing policy i had yet to see Mana proposing anything much that was not Labour policy until 1984 and is Green party policy at present,

            Mana have no time as far as i can ascertain for grandiose neo-housing schemes that target pathways for the children of today’s middle class to climb upon the ‘property ladder’ thus becoming tomorrow part of what has caused the housing un-affordability of today,

            Mana appear to favor the housing solution that stood our parents in good stead and provided affordable housing to a generation of kiwi-kids,(including Slippery the Prime minister), HousingNZ rentals rented to tenants on the basis of the most Need and not the most Greed,

            These are the 3 policy areas i would expect a strengthened Mana party to base it’s negotiations with Labour upon after the 2014 election,

            (1), 5000 new state houses a year for every year of coalition with Labour,

            (2), The ‘living wage’ to be achieved in the first term of such a coalition, and, a rise in that living wage to be negotiated every year after that,

            (3), the children of beneficiaries to be included in the working for families tax scheme and/or a comprehensive food in schools program,

            That’s hardly an over the top wish list, to me it’s simply practical workable socialism which as it’s grown into being middle class along with it’s voter base Labour seems to have forgotten,

            LOLZ, the Labour Party in coalition with National, your wet dream is it???…

  8. AsleepWhileWalking 8

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8956951/Fight-to-bring-premature-baby-Lily-home

    Short explaination is that a baby was born premmy (just 27 weeks!) in China.
    – her parents are not allowed to visit more than once a day
    – parents pay for all her needs (I assume that means doctors as well…Dr’s in China are cheaper, but they are not free!)
    – they don’t speak Chinese so I imagine this is very distressing
    – they are asking for donations to get her flown home.
    – baby is a girl. Will this mean she is given lower priority? I don’t know.

    Can you help? My heart really goes out to them.

    • You_Fool 8.1

      Worse than that, it will take the NZ embassy 2 months (!) to process the documentation for this NZ Citizen to be allowed into NZ. There is no reason for this, bring her back, get her treated here where the family is and sort out the details later.

    • Tracey 8.2

      oh, we have far more important things on our minds, like what to call a baby in a country half a world away…

  9. Anthony Blomfield 9

    How to FIX NEW ZEALAND

    Remove GST number 1

    Gert rid of resource Management Act and all by laws by lunch time.

    Remove Building permit by requirement

    Sell Off all Government SOES

    Sell all Road, Land owned by Govt

    Volunteer Tax System to pay for a basic Volunteer Welfare System

    Write Constitution

    Allow any Currency by LAw ( Recommend Aussie Dollar as Default)

    Allow any and all immigration except Violent Criminal offenders

    Army / Police/ paid by basic Goverment Fees,

    Allow for civilians to form Private Government from their own Collective and organise their own tax’s and international agreements and treaties.

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      How to visionlessly FUCK NZ and turn it into New Orleans by property rort bulletpoint

      fify

      • Anthony Blomfield 9.1.1

        Colonial Viper. Well I do believe it would all Help New Zealand my self

        alas that is what I would want for the country.

        But it seems majority does not so I have the beautiful freedom to move to Beautiful America.

        • framu 9.1.1.1

          “Gert rid of …all by laws by lunch time. ”

          cool – so you happy if i come round, steal all your stuff and then maybe a bit of casual murder?

          didnt think that particular bullshit session through very much did you

          your (ahem) “fix” is so full of holes that its actually pathetic

        • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.2

          so I have the beautiful freedom to move to Beautiful America.

          The freedom of the plutocrats. 49 million on food stamps and rising

          when you say “beautiful”, you must be talking about some gated compound in San Diego with private armed security guards

          good luck to you

          • AmaKiwi 9.1.1.2.1

            1 out of every 100 adult Americans will sleep in prison tonight (and every night).

            Anthony Bloomfield, are you white and rich?

    • bad12 9.2

      LOLZ, bring on the doctor in charge, the ‘fix’ in the states pyschiatric institution obviously didn’t ‘stick’ for this particular individual,

      It’s above comment makes me wonder if i havn’t been viewing the efficacy of electric shock therapy all these years from an errant perspective,

      It would be entirely inappropriate for me to suggest that ‘it’ be given a couple of nails and directed to the nearest wall socket…

      • King Kong 9.2.1

        Its only as mental as the wank fest autonomous collective that you chaps espouse

        [lprent: Yes we do pride ourselves on being independent. I am glad that you understand that at least.

        But we know that slavish little mouthpieces for the great coalition of the stupid like yourself would view autonomy as being something to denigrate.

        In other words you would have been particularly moronic today. However your cellphone or tablet is more intelligent than the monkey trying to “run” it. ]

        • bad12 9.2.1.1

          Your abuse is undeserving of any reply other than to point out that your next ‘banning’ is long overdue,

          Keep it up to make it happen and make us all just that little bit more happy…

    • Santi 9.3

      All excellent suggestions. Motion passed.

      • Colonial Viper 9.3.1

        All excellent suggestions. Bowel motion passed.

        fify

        • McFlock 9.3.1.1

          lol

          • AmaKiwi 9.3.1.1.1

            Hey, Santi, nice to see you back again.

            Since you have been telling us what a great leader Shearer is to lead Labour to victory, I want to make my recommendations for National.

            Gerry Brownlee is the ideal replacement when Key retires. To smash Labour’s grip on so many Maori voters and get lots of women’s votes, put Hekia Parata as deputy. If not Hekia, try Anne Tolley. Anne is fantastic! I guarantee you she will be a great vote getter.

    • Rosie 9.4

      What a packet of assorted nuts you have produced there Mr Blomfield. You do have some voting options though. Maybe the Libertarian Party if they’re still around, ACT comes to mind. On the other hand if you want to see GST gone, as I do, you can always vote Mana, but somehow I don’t think it will be your style.

      http://mana.net.nz/policy/

      • Anthony Blomfield 9.4.1

        Hey thanks Rosie.

        I was a member of Act for a while, Friends are Libertarian.

        Sure was a glimmer of hope there when Don Brash was in.

        But um nah – I feel voting is just supporting the system.

        So sweet asse have fun- burgers

        Truth Is Corporates will rule the world real soon but you guys will think it was on ‘Your Terms”

        Not really a even playing field.

        • Rosie 9.4.1.1

          Truth is corporate’s DO rule the world Anthony and it is purely on their terms alone and no one elses. We’re already there.

        • Colonial Viper 9.4.1.2

          Corporates won’t rule the world, most corporates are dying on the vine. Sears, International Harvester. As the population is impoverished so are all real businesses.

          Truth Is Corporates will rule the world real soon but you guys will think it was on ‘Your Terms”

          So you’re an authoritarian fascist. Figures.

      • Santi 9.4.2

        It does not say much about your sanity, Rosie.
        What woman in control of her own faculties would ever vote Mana, the party of the hopeless loser, the violent Harawhira? No way, Jose.

        • Rosie 9.4.2.1

          Lol you panties. Where did you see me say I was voting Mana? It was my suggestion to the commenter above seeing as he wants to see GST abolished, but as I suspected it wasn’t his style.

          I’m a Green voter but I like Mana too, so who knows, by next year I might even end up voting for them. Anything can happen.

          And my faculties are doing just fine thanks. Not sure about yours though, thinking that Shearer is safe (at 11.1)

          • Santi 9.4.2.1.1

            Not only safe, but without doubt the Labour leader at the next election, who will lead to victory. The Labour Caucus will see to it.

            As per the Greens, their radical influence has damaged David S. Norman was too close, but wait over the coming weeks for the efforts to distance Labour from the Green Party. It will pay off.

            [lprent: Yes we all know after weeks of it that one of the nuttiest of the RWNJ’s is purportedly David Shearers biggest supporter on this site, and that you have the ability to repeat yourself endlessly like a small child. However I’m bored with this trolling now – it has long since degenerated into astroturfing.

            If I see you even hint at it again then you won’t be commenting here until AFTER the election. Now I realise this will cramp your style a bit because you will now have to think and even imagine on every comment how I could possibly construe it as a RWNJ supporting David Shearer because they want another government of the right. But that was why I let this go on for so long. It is going to be amusing seeing how good your atrophied imagination can regenerate… 😈 ]

    • Tim 9.5

      A better option (just as a start) would be to repeal every piece of legislation since October 2008. Then begin from there.
      Oh – hang on …. ONE News – YOUR news has just started. I’ll get back to you. I need a laugh

  10. Santi 10

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10902041
    On the way to recovery since changes were needed. The next polls will reflect the impact of the new team behind the Labour leader David Shearer.

  11. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 11

    Danyl is smart:

    http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/more-noise/

    • Santi 11.1

      “Labour are losing votes to National, and they’ve lost them during the period of time in which the GCSB bill was introduced and the Sky-City deal signed off. They should be winning, not losing. Shearer has responded by replacing his Chief of Staff with Fran Mold, his former press secretary, and Labour’s MPs are leaking to the gallery that his leadership is under threat if he doesn’t reverse this downward trend.”

      An incomplete analysis.
      David S.’s staff change will reverse the trend and lead to shore up his position. He is safe.

  12. Chooky 12

    Reply Santi

    He might feel safe , except that a lot of New Zealanders won’t vote for him , no matter what his support staff….(See Chris Trotter on Shearer’s massive PR and media campaign build up…way more than Cunliffe’s and way more than any other Labour MPs….makes you suspicious.)

    It is not that Shearer lacks support…..It is that he is not up to inspiring the ordinary NZ voter to vote for him….

    The only Labour leader who can face Key in the ring and beat him is David Cunliffe…..

    The rank and file Labour members should rise up and demand a real democratic grassroots vote on the leadership of the Labour Party. It is their party …not David Shearer’s..

    (.And the Labour Party does not belong to any of the other Rogernom failures, plotters or ‘boy’s club’ contender, wanna bes…

  13. karol 13

    Key says it’s not a matter of a U-Turn of convenience, courting Peters, but a matter of principle – because, according to Mr Slippery, Kiwis don’t want a Labour-Green government.

    Meanwhile Peters is playing hard to get.

    • gobsmacked 13.1

      What’s so sad is not that Key is behaving entirely in character (principles? ha!) but that so many people believed him before … and will now perform gymnastics to justify his lies now.

      Got to go, got a million quotes to dig up from the last 5 years …

  14. chrissy 14

    So key is all over the news. Being spoonfed by P. . rick Gower. In the street looking like a …….world leader….not! Telling NZ what he thinks they should be thinking. One thing about it, he’s certainly getting uglier. And Shearer gets a to speak for about 5 seconds. We all know that who is in the news the most, especially always in a positive light is the one getting the most traction in peoples minds. It happened in the last election and will happen again in the next election unless Labour can get decent honest coverage. I don’t necessarily think that Cunliffe is the answer. It’s bad enough key shouting and screaming in Parliament without Labour lowering themselves to keys level.
    I read that the Maori translation for John is Hone. So that would be HoneKey

  15. lenore 15

    so 24 million for the novapay debacle and 38 million for that strange boat race….hmmm what could this country do with 62 million?????? oh yes then we have that money spent on private schools especially special ed funding so that rich kids get help with their exams that others don’t….feeling incrediably pissed off @#$%^^&&

    • Anne 15.1

      TV3 @9:30pm tonight:

      Helen Clark – Road to Power (Part One).

      Note: It takes a privately owned TV station to produce a documentary about one of our most famous NZers (and former PM) while the state sponsored station ignores her completely in favour of dumbed down crap and mock current affairs programmes fronted by ego-stroking Nat. Party biased half-wits.

    • left of right 15.2

      Something about living within ones means nothing about it applying to all nzers lenore

  16. The Gormless Fool Formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrel 16

    I will be watching something called Devious Maids on TV2 at 9:30 tonight. I encourage you all to do likewise.

  17. The Gormless Fool Formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrel 17

    I will be watching something called Devious Maids on TV2 at 9:30 tonight. I encourage you all to do likewise.

  18. left of right 18

    I know what Key does when hes quietly pissed , he gets a rubberband and sees how far he can stretch it and when he gets sober he’ll lie that he was doing something else

  19. left of right 19

    To win the next election Labour will have to stick the boot into national everyday because that is what it will take to get rid of 5yrs of fascism which is what this national govt is

    • The Gormless Fool Formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrel 19.1

      Dick.

      • King Kong 19.1.1

        +6″

        • tricledrown 19.1.1.1

          KK always reverting to primitive instincts!
          civilized behavior has passed a Neanderthal like completely by!
          Given your size King Kong that makes you the worlds biggest Dick!

  20. Draco T Bastard 20

    I keep hearing, from both Labour and National, that imported workers don’t take away work from NZers but in Christchurch:

    A major construction company involved in the Christchurch rebuild says it uses migrant workers because they are cheaper than local builders.

    That’s exactly the purpose of the imported workers. Apparently, having to pay NZ workers enough to cover their costs is too much.

    • Alanz 20.1

      Better to pay NZ workers and keep the money going round within the system, ‘trickling down’ or expanding the multiplier effect in the country, than to pay imported workers and have money draining out of NZ.

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