I favour Wall as Cunliffe’s deputy – looking towards the politically disengaged and low income people. However, Ardern would be a preferable compromise as Deputy over Robertson. Robertson as deputy is a move to unite the caucus. Ardern has personal appeal (largely to the middleclasses, I suspect), plus could help to unite caucus factions.
I feel less secure on the Herald poll because Cunliffe and Ardern are both Auckland-based MPs, so they’re going to have much better name recognition from Herald readers.
(On the other hand, there’s probably a lot more Labour members in Auckland than in Wellington).
I also wonder how much there’s a youth/social media skew in Ardern’s favour. But she wouldn’t be the worst candidate!
Cunliffe and Ardern would rejuvenate the party. A major reshuffle would appeal to the younger voter. From a younger person in the last few days I have heard how grand dad and grandma the Labour party have been for about a decade.
I agree. Robertson is a beltway pollie as has been amply pointed out. For this reason he will struggle to gain full traction – just like Shearer failed to gain full traction. The fact he is gay I don’t think will be a problem, except for those people would never vote to the left anyway (the right wing harbours all such bigots as is well known). For most ordinary people the fact he is gay will be non problema.
Cunliffe and Adern would make a great combo. Adern is certainly an attractive woman and this will have a positive impact. I wonder if Little would also make a great no. 2 too.
Labour needs to think hard, accurately, discard the flotsam, don’t complicate things (difficult I know for lefties), and make solid sensible obvious decisions. If Cunliffe has the running already then listen to it.
Robertson, Little, Adern and others are all still relatively young and have plenty of time left to have a crack later. Give it to Cunliffe – I don’t think he wants to stand for the VTO Party anymore anyway…
Please don’t laugh at my ignorance – I have to ask, I hear this term beltway all the time but don’t know what it means.
What I fathom from the conversations is that a beltway politician is one that is ensconced cosily inside the machinery of their party. Are they are more connected to, or committed to the internal politics of the party than the people they seek to represent? I have no idea.
The term beltway also puts me in mind of a luggage carousel at an airport.
Silly US Washington DC term, where the governmental/capitol area is surrounded by a ring road of US highways.
Less literally, it is the political centre of a nation sometimes too inward looking and insular/isolated from the people and country the inhabitants are supposed to actually represent and govern.
As CV says, “Beltway” is a US term taken from the ring road/motorway that runs around (or as part) of Washington DC, which is called the “Beltway”.
As a side issue in his excellent blog post on Public Address on the aftermath of the passing of the GCSB Bill, Jon Stephenson raises the (in)appropriateness of its use in relation to Wellington and there is quite a bit of discussion in the comments on this. But Jon’s post is well worth reading for its main topic.
Ah! Thank you CV, phillip ure and veutoviper. That does make sense, I could have looked it up but it’s more interesting and the meaning has more depth when it comes from the knowledgeable ones who comment here.
I wonder if it is this ‘beltway’ style of politics that contributes to the disengagement of people from taking an interest in politics and ultimately from voting. They naturally feel disconnected from and resentful towards a system of governance that they perceive as disinterested in them as people. Not the only factor though. Apologies again for not keeping up…….
Thanks for the link vv. I had seen that in my browsings in recent days but will now pay attention.
Yes, lovely spring morning here in Wgtn, made even more spring like by the sound of bleating lambs over the back fence, and more enjoyable by the absence of quakes.
He was leading Labour into well deserved oblivion.
This opened up the possibility of a genuine fighting left movement emerging. In fact we are starting to see the beginnings of it now, as we always do after a few years of National.
I have no problems with Robertson. He would continue Shearer’s good work of removing the Labour Party barrier to building a left movement.
Cunliffe is a worry.
There is every chance he will rebuild confidence in Labour and we will end up in yet another cycle of hope and despair that will first see the destruction of left fightback momentum as people put their trust in social democrat politicians once again, then the ineveitable betrayal as a Labour led government sides with the ruling class as usual.
(re leftys’ concerns..this was trotters’ take from the daily blog yesterday..)
“..There can be no doubt as to which of these two most strongly represents the partyâs and the unionsâ desire for Labour to execute a decisive shift to the left. Since the onset of the Global Financial Crisis in 2008-09, David Cunliffe has steadily come to the view that the social democratic and labour parties of the West can no longer realistically subscribe to a business-as-usual approach to economic and social policy. Neoliberalism-lite, or free-market capitalism minus its jagged edges, is no longer a credible working model for parties of the centre-left.
The personal confidence (some would say arrogance) required to carry off such a departure from political and economic orthodoxy has, until now, weighed heavily against Cunliffeâs leadership prospects in the minds of his caucus colleagues.
The right-wing faction of the caucus certainly exploited this diffidence to slow the advance of their most dangerous ideological opponent. In the process they were greatly assisted by Grant Robertsonâs personal leadership ambitions.
Indeed, without the roadblock erected by Robertsonâs supporters – the right-wingers would not have been able to prevent Cunliffe taking the leadership in December 2011..”
I would like to buy into the narrative of Cunliffe as the great redeemer but to do so would be a triumph of hope over experience.
The problem is every Labour Prime Minister since Norman Kirk has held out such hope and promise prior to their election.
Each one of them has played an important part in starting and cementing in the neo liberal agenda, despite promising the opposite.
Why would we believe Cunliffe is any different?
He might be genuine but history informs us this is unlikely to be the case.
We are better off putting faith in ourselves and building strong left moverments than waiting for a great redeemer.
It would be ok to do both at the same time but once in power Labour does everything it can to neutralise or absorb left social and political movements.
lefty..i hear/understand what you are saying about past dashed-hopes..
..a personal-nadir of this ilk..was watching the clark-govt do s.f.a. for the poorest/victims of ruthenasia..
..for budget after budget..for nine long years..
(and all the while crying crocodile-tears justifying the expansion of middle-class-welfare/employer-subsidies..by crying ‘how hard’ middle-class couples were finding it tough’..(struggling on incomes those poorest would view as rivers of gold..)
..but the difference from then to now..is that the neo-lib-consensus that made labour/national tweeddle-dum and tweedle-dee..has been largely smashed..
..the green party is now a different animal from the one that was not so long ago eyelid-batting/skirt-lifting at key/national..
..and the mana party growing apace..(and of course labour should stand aside in those maori seats mana stand in..do a banks/epsom on national/key..)
..i see labour now also realising the old ways are gone/discredited..
..and that a return to the original reasons for the foundation of that party prevail again..
..and perhaps more importantly..a public that is so opposed to asst-sales/spooking-laws is also open to a new way of doing things..
..and as they say..timing is all..
..so all these circumstances/current-realities come together to make me (mildly)-optimistic that this time will be different from others…
..and if as trotter claims..cunnliffe has already rejected that neo-lib paradigm..
..he would seem best placed to take that role..
..whereas what must not be forgotten about robertson..
..was his all-too-recent dog-whistle to the right/current-elite-paradigm..
..that power-reform was all the reform any incoming labour govt would undertake..(!)
..just that craven/kowtowing-outburst should discount robertson..
..(he really is tweedle-dum in waiting..)
..and would perhaps further define that definition of robertson as ‘beltway’ –
Phillip Ure, while i admire your ‘faith’ i think it is somewhat misplaced, time of course will tell whether or not David Cunliffe can form a Labour Party into one that takes up where Norm Kirk’s Labour Government ended,
Through ‘rogernomics’,(to my shame i stuffed letterboxes to help that abysmal Government get elected), and through that long 9 years of the Clark Governments i clung to ‘faith’ that sooner or later Labour would see that the neo-liberal paradigm was the path not to salvation of the majority, but the road to poverty for 10% while those above them cowered in fear that they too might end up ‘down there’,
Until that is Helen Clarke uttered these words, ”If beneficiaries want to receive Working for Families payments they can get a job”,
That was my and Labour’s parting of the ways, i have no ‘faith’ whatsoever that Labour have actually changed one iota from that attitude, i have not seen nor heard one iota in a Cunliffe speech which would lead me to the belief that Cunliffe himself has resiled from the Clarke position,
My view is that even a Cunliffe lead Labour Party will show little compassion to the homeless and the poor and that any gains for the bottom 10-20-30% of New Zealand will have to be chiseled from Labour from the smaller coalition partners,
As far as the neo-liberal social and economic paradigm being smashed, i wish it were so, BUT, the number of people losing their employment in the past 12 months alone while company profits grow would tend to suggest that business as usual is the order of the day,
Faith you may have in a rejuvenated Labour Party, us that have lost that faith have now seen that only force, the force of coalition politics that will give Labour no choice but to take up a real Labour Government program at the point where the Government of Norm Kirk came to a sad and untimely end…
[lprent: If you want to quote people, then it pays you to link to it. Apart from anything else it makes this site liable for being sued if it is untrue (as I think it is in this case).
Normally I’d just zap the suspect quote and it is likely that whoever did it would face a long and arduous ban. I’m going to leave this one up on the basis that Helen is likely to talk to me first.
However I strongly suggest that you either find a link/source or state that you cannot. ]
That quote is deeply ingrained in the memory of a lot of those who gives a shit about the poor.
Beneficiaries don’t need to produce academic proof of the real life insults and denigration they have experienced at the hands of neo liberals like Clark to make them true.
I really don’t understand this stuck in the past mentality?
You don’t need to have faith. You just need to look at some of their proposed policies. Although there is now some doubt by certain critics, Labour is likely to implement a working for families type policy for beneficiaries. They have even said that Helen Clark was wrong not to include beneficiaries from the get go.
There is no doubt however that Labour will undo some of the damage National has caused to employment laws. Workers rights will be a hot topic when it comes to Labour’s policy development. Under a Labour government, wages are likely to increase and perhaps even match or overtake inflation for once.
Labour has a number of housing policies that could easily be enhanced to mean homelessness isn’t a reality for many New Zealanders (are there any stats on this?). Building an additional 10,000 houses per year, limiting the amount of property speculation and making it easier for average Kiwi families to purchase a house are all beneficial policies for the people of Aotearoa.
Although it was David Shearer saying it, either David Cunliffe or Grant Robertson as leader will implement a review and then replace the GCSB legislation. That change will assuredly mean an end to mass wholesale surveillance on Kiwis by the GCSB and their affiliate agencies.
Labour will also adopt some of the Greens environmental policies to ensure their coalition support. All of these things will move New Zealand away from the destructive neo-liberal paradigm and towards a more equal society. But hey, if you want to wallow in the past and blame Labour for the present situation bad12, go right ahead.
I really donât understand this stuck in the past mentality?
It is not wallowing in the past to remember the same promises being made by Labour in the past.
Or to have enough political nous to see what social democrat parties are doing/have recently done in other parts of the world.
We are not talking ancient history here, many New Zealanders have experienced the real live betrayals of Lange and Clark, both of whom looked like bright shiny beacons of hope compared with National at the time.
How many times does the same thing have to happen before people understand it probably going to happen again.
Ok then Jackel seeing as you have given me the invite to wallow in Labour’s past i will,
The Lange Government improves beneficiaries living standards by adding PAYE to benefit payments, you might like to think that that only effected beneficiaries way back then, but added to Nationals later attack of direct benefit cuts this simply leaves today’s beneficiaries around $40 a week worse off in today’s terms, wallow wallow,
The Clark Government refused to make WFF a universal benefit where all children could access such payments on an equal basis, as the recipients of benefits are a huge ‘churn’ today’s beneficiaries are not likely to have been in receipt of a benefit back in 2004 that could have been bolstered by WFF but in terms of income as a comparison with the rest of society today’s beneficiaries are negative up to another $60 a week, wallow wallow,
Yes even at the 2011 election Labour’s Annette King,(i took as an act of desperation at the time), even went so far as to say that beneficiaries would be included in WFW, She, (i assume having been counselled), a couple of days later qualified that inclusion with the words ”in time”,
So, as you say Labour and i know it was a mistake to not make WFF a universal benefit for children, i hope to hear David Cunliffe after He becomes leader of the Labour Party say just that in a future speech, and i don’t know if i will be more surprised if He doesn’t than if He does…
“..Yes even at the 2011 election Labourâs Annette King,(i took as an act of desperation at the time), even went so far as to say that beneficiaries would be included in WFW, She, (i assume having been counselled), a couple of days later qualified that inclusion with the words âin timeâ..
as i recall..the ‘promise was to include them at an incremental rate that would have seen parity reached/full payment..
..by 2018..?..
..yet i guess some in labour were puzzled at the apparant indifference from those labour had ignored for so long..at this largesse..
(puzzled we/they weren’t filling the streets..sobbing in gratitude..)
..and puzzled why how those they had ignored for so long..continued to ignore them in return..
..a large part of me fears that many in labour still have not learnt that lesson..
..and will advocate/argue for minimal/incremental-increases for the poorest/most suffering..at best..
bad..i totally agree with you it is the minor coalition parties that will be dragging labour to many of those needed policies/actions..(not necessarily any 30’s labour-rebirth/eruption from within..)
..so what is needed is a labour party not averse to being taken to that well..
..and going on their records/pronouncments to date..
..i see cunnliffe as being more willing to sup..than robertson..
..(but i wd hasten to add..that i don’t think i am looking at labour/anycoalition thru rose-tinted glasses..
..and i retain enough cynicism to brace myself to go and stand in the bitter/disappointment-corner..by early 2016..)
..(btw..my voting-arc to date is labour/greens/mana..)
Until that is Helen Clarke uttered these words, âIf beneficiaries want to receive Working for Families payments they can get a jobâ..
I don’t know who this Helen Clarke was. However I can’t remember Helen Clark saying that, nor do I think that it is likely that she would have said it.
The reason for not including beneficiaries in the WFF was pretty simple. WFF was structured as a tax credit – so think about that.
Beneficiaries pay very little tax so consequently the effect of a tax credit is 5/8th of piss all. Moreover it would be a lot easier to simply directly increase the payments to beneficiaries with kids and to make the housing supplements related to number of kids. Which is what I seem to remember happened.
Actually most beneficiaries pay the same tax rate as people who work. The subsequent rulings on this matter certainly didn’t view the amount of tax beneficiaries pay as being a valid reason for them to not be included in the scheme.
And Beneficiaries have the distinction of paying the most tax if they are working part time as well. For starters we are taxed at the secondary rate amd when we hit that much vaunted target of 80 bucks a week we get hammered even harder.
“Itâs a surprise that Douglas, Prebble, Caygill et al would bring in such a regressive tax. In 1986.”
Because it is an efficient tax.
The solution to the hight EMTRs that welfare recipients face is a guaranteed minimum income of $15,000 for everyone over 18. No means test. No abatement. No WINZ nightmare work tests.
yes, but of course a tax can be highly regressive AND efficient at the same time. Where again, this is another instance of the term “efficient” to do with caning the poorest.
As for your minimum guaranteed income idea, great idea, but its still a pipe dream, whereas the regressiveness of GST is very here and now.
“yes, but of course a tax can be highly regressive AND efficient at the same time. Where again, this is another instance of the term âefficientâ to do with caning the poorest.”
Oh fuck off Viper you moron. How is that basement flat?
If a tax is not efficient it won’t raise revenue without crimping growth.
We have one of the lowest GST rates in the world. Oh Brunei doesn’t have a GST. Doesn’t have a welfare system either.
Gosh LPrent i fall about in absolute horror at having mis-spelt a name, can i please be forgiven,(it’s not like you have 100% perfection or do you),
i well remember Clark saying exactly that or words to that effect, and have just spent the last hour trying to find a link to this which so far has not been successful, and will happily withdraw the comment i made above should i not be able to find a link,
Yes exactly if you want to specifically exclude the children of beneficiaries from gaining access to more money then you structure a benefit in such a way that those children cannot access it,(if children with parents earning $60,000 a year ‘needed’ this tax credit then the children of beneficiaries needed it a hell of a lot more, obviously that’s ‘only’ my opinion and please feel free to tell us all your opinion on that question),
”Beneficiaries pay very little tax” now that i would suggest is a ‘Tui Statement’, on one level you are correct, beneficiaries pay little tax because beneficiaries get paid sod all,
i don’t know what your income is Lprent, but consider your fixed costs and if you have ANY disposable income after that where it is your choice how you spend such disposable income or if you spend it at all,
As a % of income beneficiaries pay at least 27% of their total income on tax, both income and GST, if using tobacco products and/or petrol products that taxation rises dramatically to 27-35% of income, not much tax in dollar terms that may be, but as a % of income they are highly taxed,
”Housing supplements related to the number of kids” you remember that happening seems to me to be in the realm of me remembering Helen Clark telling beneficiaries that if they wanted Working for Families payments they should get a job,
Bet you will have as much trouble finding a link to that as i am to the Clark quote…
“..I donât know who this Helen Clarke was. However I canât remember Helen Clark saying that, nor do I think that it is likely that she would have said it. ..”
(if she didn’t utter those specific words..this is what she did..)
“..The reason for not including beneficiaries in the WFF was pretty simple. WFF was structured as a tax credit â so think about that…”
(um..!..sorry..!..what exactly should one think about that..?..
..and how does that defend/excuse in any way the thesis of the clark labour govts’ nine year record of studious ignoring of the needs of the poorest..?..)
“..Beneficiaries pay very little tax..”
(as others have noted..benificiaries pay an extra 15% tax on 100% of their incomes..(g.s.t..)..
..this n top of the p.a.y.e. tax already extracted/deducted from that pittance..
..not to mention benificiaries having the highest claw-back taxes of any group..85% on any income over $80..(that one shut up a rightwing friend of mine..)
“.. Moreover it would be a lot easier to simply directly increase the payments to beneficiaries with kids – and to make the housing supplements related to number of kids. Which is what I seem to remember happened..”
..as one who lived through it..what you mention as moves undertaken by labour..was directing a garden hose at a holocaust..
..and did diddly-squat to undo in any way what had been wrought by richardson/shipley et al..
..and anyway..whither the childless unemployed/sick..?
..during those nine years..
..it is the hallmark of that clark government..and the biggest stain on their record..
..that they not only ignored/stigmatised the poor themselves..for those nine long years..
..but in doing so they also prepared the ground so well for the likes of bennett..eh..?..to launch the current/ongoing pogrom/war on the poor..
..but coming back to the here and now..surely any hope for a real ‘new’ labour party to be accepted (and perhaps more importantly) believed – by the electorate/those they ignored for so long/the current non-voters..?
..there has to be a coherent renunciation of the neo-lib that came before…surely..?..and promises to repair..?
..much as david milliband has done in britain in the last 24 hrs..where he..in his arguments/promises of a living-wage from any incoming labour govt in britain..for all..
(are you listening..?..nz labour..?..a ‘living-wage..?..’for all’..(the formula to end/do away with the blight of poverty in nz one fell swoop..).
…milliband has apologised for the labour that came before..and has promised to to make amends..
“..Answering critics who said he needed to admit that the Labour government made mistakes â Miliband said its economic policies had been lop-sided â and it had got it wrong.
âWe have to change our economyâ he said.
âWe were going down the up escalator –
– putting money into tax credits â but building a low-wage economy.â
Labour should back demands for a national living wage that paid more than the minimum wage â he said.
âItâs a priority for us.
Itâs important because frankly itâs terrible that one of the richest countries in the world hasnât just a huge child poverty problem –
– but a growing child poverty problem –
– including for people who are in work.â
(once again..are you listening..?..nz labour..?..)
..it is the hallmark of that clark government..and the biggest stain on their record..
I have to disagree there. This issue barely rated a mention in the mainstream media when it was occurring. There was certainly no real analysis even though there was a protracted battle to try and change the decision to not include beneficiaries. Now I would struggle to find any mention of it at all even though the effects of such legislation are only just now really coming home to roost.
In many ways it is the same as National’s latest round of beneficiary bashing. There is simply no information available about all those thousands of predominantly young people who are being kicked off welfare and have no other income. Paula Bennett cannot even answer questions relating to the exact numbers involved…she just giggles instead FFS! We can only guess at how detrimental these policies will be on society.
Therefore the issue of Labour not implementing a WFF type policy for beneficiaries barely rates as a stain on the last Labour government…except for those who understand politics and go looking for information that is. However there is no doubt that if Labour could afford to subsidize businesses by paying middle class families a tax incentive for their low wages, they assuredly could have done more to alleviate the terrible rate of severe poverty in New Zealand. Let’s hope they have learnt from their mistakes.
WFF was structured as a tax credit â so think about that.
That’s a wee bit disingenuous, lprent. Working for Families wasn’t some bright-eyed all-loving scheme to help poor families which “just happened” to be limited by being structured as a tax cut. It was deliberately denied to beneficiary families in order to “incentivise” them into work.
It’s basically the single most abhorrent example of how the Labour Party’s thinking over the past decade has been about securing middle-class votes by promoting the idea of some poor people as “deserving” and others as scapegoats. Are children going to go hungry because their parents can’t find work following a global financial crisis? Who cares as long as we get re-elected!
Lolz Draco, i find comparative advantage a little too chinese for my limited intellect, funnily enough i am not trying to undermine David Cunliffe in my previous comments no matter what they appear to transmit,
David Cunliffe would seem to be the best candidate to assume the Labour leadership and become the next Prime Minister having defeated the Slippery little shyster currently masquerading in that position,
i do tho have the opinion that large sections of the Labour Party and by extension the Labour Caucus believe that the Green Party will simply enable any old government as a lapdog coalition partner much as the smaller partners in previous coalitions have, and the Green Party will have to work hard to bring about the social changes much needed in our society in effect having to chisel any gains for the lowest 30% of people in our society out of a possibly reluctant Labour,
i sat silently non-critical of the Clark government for most of it’s reign Hoping, i do not really see myself extending the benefit of that silence and Hope if a David Cunliffe Labour Government suddenly finds ‘reform’ to be too hard…
Lolz Draco, i find comparative advantage a little too chinese for my limited intellect, funnily enough i am not trying to undermine David Cunliffe in my previous comments no matter what they appear to transmit,
Neither was I, I was pointing out that David Cunliffe still believes in neo-liberalism – the same as Helen Clark obviously did.
It’s not – which is the problem. Almost all of our political parties won’t change the underlying system which is causing poverty in our country and destroying our environment.
It was first espoused along the lines of England has a comparative advantage in producing wool and cloth, while Portugal has a comparative advantage in producing grapes and wine.
England and Portugal should stick to what they are good at doing, and then trade with each other so that each can have cloth and wine.
(The start of a philosophy of globalised trade)
Comparative advantage is meaningless today because most goods traded do not rely on natural environmental and climactic conditions. You can build an iPad or a Ford Territory just as well in China as you can in the USA, for instance.
“Comparative advantage is meaningless today because most goods traded do not rely on natural environmental and climactic conditions. You can build an iPad or a Ford Territory just as well in China as you can in the USA, for instance.”
In addition, the massive growth of the financial economy means that the old theories of comparative advantage are largely bunk now. You can situate servers, trading desks and fibre optic cables most places in the world very easily, for instance. Financial centres and corporate ownership don’t have to be anywhere near where the raw materials, workers, or factories actually are.
Bottom line – “comparative advantage” theories are largely irrelevant.
And since the internet revolution, theories of comparative advantage have decreased in relevance even further.
The next multi-billion dollar Yahoo! or Google! could just as easily come out of Mumbai, Beijing, Perth, Auckland or Moscow.
Its well over time that economics updates many of its basic tenets, but given the fundamentalist nature of the discipline and its acolytes, it seems sadly unlikely.
It’s all a load of bollocks though as the benefits of comparative advantage are so tiny that interest rates above 0% turn the benefits of trade negative. Also, Absolute advantage, which is what C.V. first identifies and has a spat with srylands over, will always trump comparative advantage as well.
The problem then becomes that no country has any advantage over any other country in manufactured goods as all factories produced today are as efficient as all other factories – they’re designed that way. The fact that all factories are as efficient as all others also removes economies of scale from the equation – bigger factories no longer have the productivity advantage that they did in the 19th century.
The difference we see in prices are artificial and not a result of improved efficiencies. What all this means is that all countries could produce everything they require in their own borders cheaper than they could get anything through trade.
That leaves food but even there we don’t have any advantages. Kiwifruit can, and are, grown elsewhere. So are cows and, in fact, pretty much everything else we produce here. That’s why we, every now and then, get a few people who understand this complaining that China is importing our cows and know-how and they’re right. As soon as China does get those things our dairy industry is history as China happen to be a lot closer to our main market for such things – China.
Oh good, we can go back to growing our own food then.
Thanks CV and DtB for explaining.
The original comment about Cunliffe not resiling from Clark’s position, hence his belief in comparative advantage, was that re neoliberalism? (I originally read it as not resiling from the WFF position).
Right wasn’t that a f**king arduous little task, having asked the question of Google in a zillion different ways and read far too many links that my tired old eyes deserve to be punished with in any one session i can say that i hardly managed at all to find anything that Helen Clark was quoted as saying about Working for Families vis a vis Jobs and Beneficiaries,
This appears to be the clearest link and it is obscure, the publication is actually a news site for would be immigrants and appears to be aimed at Australians a Britons, but, a link it is,
Your link doesn’t work bad12. I think you’re probably looking for something like this Ministry of Social Development (RTF) document, which quotes Helen Clark saying:
The best form of social security is a job.
She made that statement in June 2008 specifically concerning WFF and at a time when the Child Poverty Action Group was taking the matter through the courts. Here’s CPAG’s comment on the judgment (PDF).
If that gets you there, click on 2004(in blue) and scroll down page to July,
”Big winners in budget are working families”,
Lolz the longer i look the ‘crankier’ my PC gets but it is there and it does quote Helen Clark on working for Families, ”You will be better of when you go to work”,
Also Micheal Cullen,” Working for families had three aims said Finance Minister Micheal Cullen, to reduce barriers to work, ensure people are better off working, and, ensure families are able to give their children the best start to life”,
i certainly didn’t here or see that particular quote from Helen Clark originally from this particular site but it’s the only one i can find that directly echos what i know she said…
Hey Bad. This is the best I could come up with on a quick trawl. However my memory is that at some time, probably in an interview situation, Clark said something more pithy and very similar to the words you paraphrased above at 9.56am:
“Speaking ahead of the hearing this morning, Prime Minister Helen Clark said today the in-work payment was there to ensure people were better off when they went to work.
“The best form of social security is a job,” she said on TV One’s Breakfast programme.
“We don’t want to do anything that would stop the movement of beneficiaries back to work.”
Lolz whoever you is your funny, but, probably about to make me a rather large TARGET,
Don’t let that stop you tho,and thanks for the link, Lolz i am pretty sure i heard it the way i have said it, probably on RadioNZ National but mods kindly asked for a link and the one i have provided is the closest to the quote i can come,
As my ‘new pa’ i won’t give you the task of trawling through RadioNZ’s archives trying to find where Helen Clark is quoted saying it, instead can you compile me a loud tape full of open laughter so i can play it continuously when David Cunliffe rids us of the current Slippery little shyster…
I would like to buy into the narrative of Cunliffe as the great redeemer
I haven’t seen that much of a “great redeemer” narrative – if you look at my post on Cunliffe yesterday & why I electorate vote him, you will see I have criticisms (of his centrism, and focus on economic growth, plus having said little on the need to restructure social security).
Cunliffe does seem to me to be the best the Labour caucus has to oppose, and hopefully dismiss, Key at the next election. He does express a strong critique of neoliberalism, but will have to see how that would carry into practice if he was PM.
I have real reservations about the current political positioning of parliamentary Labour, and will continue to party vote Green or Mana.
I’ve seen many other similar sentiments from others on TS.
Yes pathetic Jonolism from a tired press hack more interested in conducting interviews with Himself and drawing wrong conclusions, if Armstrong but brains weak had an iota of journalistic integrity He would have investigated the ‘unfathomable’ so as to at least enlighten Himself instead of attempting to soil Cunliffe with His piss weak denigration,
Topping Armstong but brains weak’s effort at Jonolism in today’s Herald tho was the winner of this weeks ‘Golden Turd’ for exceptional efforts in the promotion of Jonolism Fran O’Sullivan, awarded to those in the main stream of New Zealand media who having not a grain of truth simply make s**t up and smear these lies across the pages of their shoddy rags,
In today’s Herald O’Sullivan not only lies about the head of the Council of Trade Unions Helen Kelly, She, O’Sullivan openly slanders Her,
O’Sullivan’s claim that Helen Kelly has said that the Union Affiliates to the Labour Party will block vote in the upcoming leadership contest is simply wrong in fact, Helen Kelly has said that the union Affiliates will vote for the person they see as the best Labour leader in terms of ousting the current National Government,
Wrong in fact twice in one paragraph, O’Sullivan either has little knowledge of the Union Affiliates She has chosen to write of, or has simply chosen to print LIES,
It is virtually impossible for the Union Affiliates to Block Vote for the next leader of the Labour Party as some of the Affiliated Unions will have ALL their members having a vote each and some of the Affiliated Unions will have only delegates casting a vote after consulting the shop floor,
A well deserved ‘Golden Turd’ award goes to the Heralds Fran O’Sullivan who, the more she writes on any particular subject, the more inclined to stray into the realms of out-right bulls**t She becomes….
From Armstrong on Robertson: ” Gay, but not overtly so. Comes across instead as a Good Kiwi Bloke who likes a beer or two while chewing the political fat.”
Yes, Armstrong’s attempt to not critique Robertson and support him, exposes Armstrong’s biases – showing exactly where he gets his views on the Labour leadership – down the pub. It’s all about the relationship between such journos and the Labour Caucus right wing.
On mobile so no reply button, but at Vto I disagree entirely with the sentiment that only the right holds bigots. There aare large tracts of the religious Pacifica community which are deeply bigoted. From memory labours mp for mangere was stating as much last year. Plenty of bigots on both sides of the political devide im afraid….
There’s no question more bigots support political parties like National, Act and NZ First. Although some homophobes who support Labour might no longer with Grant Robertson leading, the LGBT community would likely identify and therefore support him. There are likely just as many swing voters in both camps (excuse the pun). Therefore I think there will be no more or less support for Robertson. His sexuality is quite simply not an issue and I’m somewhat disappointed the MSM is trying to make it one.
The other huge counter against Robertson is that he’s not had any actual experience in Government – around the Cabinet table. He’s only been in Parliament a few years – in Oppposition.
Labour cannot afford to experiment – as Jenny Michie has said – we need someone who knows the machinations around Govt departments, who’s had experience of how the top civil servants operate with Ministers trying to put through different policies., and who can really “foot” it with Key.
Cunliffe has all of that., Robertson is only halfway there.
Whoever takes the helm at labour I wish them the best – this is a chance to pull the team together to fight the horrible gnats and their destructive agenda – it can be done, it must be done.
WTF is this Coatsworth woman (who ever she is) saying that there can be no deals ie Cunliffe/Robertson, saying there HAS to be a US (What is the fascination with the fucking yanks?) style primary. (this has now put me off Labour politics for good) I thought we were going to have a clean out and new leaders put in.
But no it’s still the same ol’ same ol’ from those behind the scenes.
Holy frak, that’s not the intended important bit, its the “50,000 voting papers” which is the stunner!
By the way David H, why are you complaining about behind the scenes Labour stage direction when you are a supporter of getting a backroom deal cut and leaving members’ voices out of it completely?
David, Moira is the party President. She didn’t say the things you attribute to her and you clearly misunderstand what she actually did say; which is that the members want a say. It’s your proposition that is ‘same ol same ol’ and that is not the membership preference, by a long shot.
A series of well attended debates around the country will also have the positive effect of lifting Labour’s profile, energising the activist base and re-aquainting caucus with the people who put them in their jobs.
CV: the 50k includes union members. However, it’s up to each individual affililiate whether they ballot all members. Some will make the decision at delegate or executive level.
It also puts media attention on Labour for the next four weeks, where they can articulate their vision and lead the national conversation, rather than be reactive to the government’s policies.
My first impression was for a Cunliffe/Robertson ‘ticket’ to be put together as this to me would ‘seem’ the best leadership team for Labour both in terms of having the left/right factions ‘at the top table’, Cunliffe/Robertson are the Labour Party’s top 2 performers in the House, and, in terms of electorate appeal Cunliffe/Robertson are right up there,
*if the Stuff poll is to be taken notice of, dubious at best, Jacinda Adhern seems also have a high public profile*
Having said all that, it is right for the Party membership to expect, and be highly disappointed if the question of leadership is not put to the vote, it is after-all ‘their’ Party,
This in no way would preclude Cunliffe and Robertson putting together a ‘ticket’ to contest for the leadership and nor would it preclude the winner of a contest between Cunliffe and Robertson offering the Deputy position to the loser in such a contest,
It is tho obvious that the membership and affiliates will accept nothing less that a democratic election process to decide who the next leader of Labour and next Prime Minister will be…
Pray tell how did the Member for Wellington Central become the Member if He only came ‘third’ in his electorate,
If ‘various poll’s were to be the measure by which we are to judge this question of electoral appeal the Stuff Poll yesterday had Jacinda Adhern polling ahead of David Cunliffe as most favored Labour Party leader…
L, all good, i have also seen that elsewhere on the Standard used as a Robertson putdown, it’s hard to slap Grant round for that Party vote in Wellington,
Wellington is a hot bed of Green activism and IF there is to be a Green electorate MP in the upcoming or 2017 elections i would suggest it will be one of the Wellington Labour seats that falls,
Annette King’s numbers both in the electorate and party votes took a hammering last time round as well and much of that is found in the Green numbers out here in the electorate,
That’s MMP i guess, Labour as i have seen some on here comment cannot retreat to the belief that the Green’s are cannibalizing ‘their votes’ as it’s now a free-for-all where we are free to attempt to build the best coalition of the left possible…
Annette’s electorate vote remained very strong, with a 9000 majority. The party vote did horribly in Rongotai however, well under the NZ average for Labour.
Most of the party vote bleed went straight to the Greens (+7.2% on 2008)
While there is something to be said for having Ardern as a deputy during the electioneering phase, I just can’t see her being the low profile grafter doing the hard yards as a deputy leader. The extra votes may win the election for Labour sure, but in that case where margins are so thin, the Greens are going to be edgy cause if they go into coalition they will be really worried about the inevitable blowback coalition means for the lesser party and if they don’t Labour’s deputy leader will also be deputy PM.
In both cases the deputy leader must be a heads down bum sort of person who is happy to let the PM take the limelight while they look after the nuts & bolts.
If that sounds like a job that Ardern could happily fill, then fine, she should be deputy, but if you believe as I do that she would struggle to suppress her natural character fulfilling that role, then think again, because Labour winning and cocking it up completely, making mis-steps & unable to to get anything done competently would be much worse than not winning at all since it would likely presage another long term Tory domination of Aotearoa.
yeah right Michael Cullen never got up to anything in the Clark govt, except of course making sure Treasury stayed away from decisions they woulda cocked up plus he left the country in the healthiest financial state for about half a century.
Having an offsider like that is essential for an effective PM because it gives the boss distance, so when things turn to custard they can make political decisions free from the attempts of public servants to capture em. Having the deputy leader double as finance/treasury person is a proven model that works with MMP coalition governments.
are you sure you aren’t first-past-the-post thinking on that..?
..this upcoming govt will be the first real m.m.p-govt in our history..(in more a govt of equals..)
..and surely much of that (acknowledged) load shouldered by the deputy under f.p.p..
..will be taken up by/shared the coalition parties’ luminaries..?
..and anyway..while she is undoubtedly skilled..(and getting better at the job..going on q-time appearances..)..i argued ardern as deputy purely on the grounds of wider-electoral-appeal than anyone else mooted for the role….
..and help in re-taking ak for labour..
..and for helping win ak central back for labour..
..aside from those considerations..i am kinda agnostic on deputies..
..just as long as cunnliffe gets the leaders’-nod..
..’cos he is the only one..at this particular point..who is up to the job at hand..
..namely to stop key..and what he and his dead-eyed/zealot compatriots are doing to nz..
Thatâs what a Deputy Leader is. Your number two in case the number one isnât around.
Not really, except in the very short term. They’d take the placeholder reins between the death and a caucus meeting that will be called for after the death to select the new leader. They have to be selected as leader of the parliamentary caucus (because that has been their role).
With variations this is what happened in 1940 when Savage died, and in 1974 when Kirk died. That their deputies took on the role was more coincidence than anything else.
This isn’t the US, and the leaders of the party had not been selected in a vote by the public or even the members.
Now that there is a membership/affiliates vote as well, then I’d expect that much the same system continues. However rather than the shorter period to a caucus vote, it will be a longer period until all of the votes are counted. The case where it was shorter would be if there were only one candidate.
BTW: Even in the case of current prime minister, we have had the Gerry Brownlee running the country while both Key and English were out of the country. Bearing in mind the hash he is making of Christchurch, it is a damn good thing that they didn’t crash.
But what about being “Acting PM” when the Prime Minister is out of the country? I don’t see Ardern being given that responsibility with so much more experience and skill around her.
The Deputy Leader should be the person you think could do the job as Leader if the Leader isn’t there. That’s why Robertson is Deputy now, and why he will be Deputy behind Cunliffe in a few weeks.
Yes, but does an “acting PM” actually do anything that the PM wouldn’t have? Do they go and give important speeches or initiate new important policy? No. They’re simply there to hold the fort until the PM gets back. In the event of a natural disaster or other crisis, the PM would hot-foot it back from wherever they are anyway.
Probably the only thing that comes to mind an “acting PM” has ever done would be Bill English signing off to suppress that the GCSB had any involvement in Kim Dotcom while Key was off watching a baseball game, and clearly that had nothing to do with running the country.
Probably the only thing that comes to mind an âacting PMâ has ever done would be Bill English signing off to suppress that the GCSB had any involvement in Kim Dotcom while Key was off watching a baseball game, and clearly that had nothing to do with running the country.
Which is why I think that was done of the direct authorisation of Key. English has no actual role with the GCSB except what he does on Key’s behalf. The GCSB, like the military, police, and SIS if directly controlled by the “crown” and is not technically part of the government – except as far as the GG cedes authority and those organisations choose to accept it at an operational level.
Read the last Police Act for the clearest examples of that.
My fault for confusing the two roles. Leader of a parliamentary caucus =/= PM.
However it is a very limited role because the Acting PM (in all cases) is acting as a muppet for the PM. They do not get appointed to the role by the governor general and therefore do not gte given access to the powers of the crown that are given to the PM. Incidentally the English has much the same restraints.
And I have one word to say… Brownlee
(count your blessings)
But what about being âActing PMâ when the Prime Minister is out of the country? I donât see Ardern being given that responsibility with so much more experience and skill around her.
You’re assuming that Labour in government would get both the PM and Deputy PM roles. Depending on how the party vote turns out, it could very possibly be a Green co-leader (or two) in the Deputy seat.
If Labour wants an effective relationship with the Greens in the form of a coalition, they shouldn’t choose Andrew Little. His views on fossil fuels are completely opposite theirs, which could prove fatal in any future negotiations. Perhaps why you’re advocating for him in the first place BM?
Personally the way I see Labour going forwards is that it returns to it’s roots. that being the political voice for the trade union.
The left do not work well together it seems every one need to have their own little fiefdom, luckily with MMP you can do this and still make a mark politically on the NZ landscape.
The idea of Labour having to be a broad church is unnecessary these days, the left should consist of 3 political groups.
1 Labour – the trade unions
2. The Greens- environmentalists
3. The progressives – gay, liberal, chardonnay socialist, Cunliffe types,etc.
This whole under one umbrella approach does not work with the left and there’s no need for it in a MMP environment.
Cunliffe/Ardern. Brains, heart, safety, record, youth, geography, gender, sex appeal. The sewer rats will be sweating with terror.
Robertson who?
no brainer….eh….Indeed.
As for the Hels quote, who cares. Look no further than the sickening abolition of the Special Benefit: no need, no explanation, massive hammer to the most vulnerable.
Like the roof diddler cruelty, last last straw, no excuse, clean slate now or die.
It is not the poor who are the criminals here. They are people at the bottom being jackbooted even further down by the loathsome Marie Anoinette Paula Bennett. She and her soldiers both within and without WINZ (which is to say a minority of WINZ people) deserve a wrathful karma.
Xstasy – I note a particular comment you made either today or yesterday – please know that I am with the first person who responded. Unreserved aroha to you.
” A proposed law change to bring lobbying of MPs out of the shadows has been rejected by a parliamentary committee out of concern that it was too broad and would have discouraged constituents from engaging with politicians. Her bill would have created a public register for lobbyists and required them to follow a code of ethics drawn up by the Auditor-General and file quarterly returns.
It would be a criminal offence for unregistered corporate lobbyists, union members, or workers with non-government organisations to lobby MPs.”
” Committee chairwoman and Labour MP Ruth Dyson said: “If you’ve got a bunch of family members who aren’t being paid to provide care to their family, they should be able to lobby you. You wouldn’t want them to go through a registration process for having their views known.”
yes ruth, families are where the problems lie…. you all just want to protect the right of access by the little people.
Good to know after the GCSB bill has passed – It was implied on “The Nation” that spying on us will lead to higher Telco costs being passed on to consumers.
Has it been keeping you awake at night La! or did you suddenly just decide to have a crack at someone you didn’t like and hadn’t heard from for a while.
Can someone tell me, please, which unions are affiliated to the Labour Party and will therefore be able to vote for its leader?
Also, is it correct that the CTU is not affiliated to the Labour Party and has no formal connection? I want to put the facts right on Fran O’Sullivan’s comments section, not that it will make much difference to the trogs. But one must try – sigh.
The Labour Party was founded as the political arm of the trade union movement. While the formal ties between unions and the party have dwindled, there are still five unions that are directly affiliated to the party and pay affiliation fees. These unions are:
Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union (EPMU)
Service & Food Workers Union (SFWU)
Maritime Union of New Zealand (MUNZ)
New Zealand Dairy Workers Union (NZDWU)
New Zealand Meat & Related Trades Workers Union (NZMWU)
In addition, the president of the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions continues to speak at the Labour Party Annual Conference.[15]
Labor unions were born in violence a century ago and are once again the subject of acrimonious debate. At stake is a worker’s right to bargain collectively and the very existence of an American middle class.
This trailer is a first step in the exploration of why unions, seemingly needed as much as ever, have little relevance for today’s workers…
Thank you. I’ve been back to Fran O’Sullivan’s article and saw this:
Fran O’Sullivan: An earlier version of this column misinterpreted comments by CTU president Helen Kelly as indicating unions would block-vote their 20 per cent for one candidate only.” The error is regretted.
I don’t think they’re taking anymore comments at the moment.
The paradoxical implication is that the same psychological characteristics that enable male managers to rise to the top of the corporate or political ladder are actually responsible for their downfall. In other words, what it takes to get the job is not just different from, but also the reverse of, what it takes to do the job well. As a result, too many incompetent people are promoted to management jobs, and promoted over more competent people.
Unsurprisingly, the mythical image of a “leader” embodies many of the characteristics commonly found in personality disorders, such as narcissism (Steve Jobs or Vladimir Putin), psychopathy (fill in the name of your favorite despot here), histrionic (Richard Branson or Steve Ballmer) or Machiavellian (nearly any federal-level politician) personalities. The sad thing is not that these mythical figures are unrepresentative of the average manager, but that the average manager will fail precisely for having these characteristics.
And NZ managers are some of the worst in the world.
BTW, that link has a horrible ad popup, probably put there by one of those incompetent managers, that you have to close before you can read the page. You don’t have to read the advert though.
Jacinda Ardern comes across as very lightweight and eager to participate in photo ops, but showing little evidence that she has done the hard work her spokesperson role needs and deserves. I have no idea what he successes are, apart from restoring a small caravan. Given the obscenity of NAct policies and the vileness and thick headedness of Paula Bennett, she should have made far more impact. My conclusion is that she probably believes in the Tory bullshit about deserving and undeserving poor and is exactly the sort of person who should not be promoted. If Cunliffe wants to step back from Friedman, as he should, he’ll need a deputy who has shown a willingness to go against the consensus. For me, that is Louisa Wall.
One other thing – shittyhands can go and fuck himself. I’ll even arrange for a sympathetic doctor to provide a viagra script for him (Could be a she, but I’m doubtful. Libertarians are more gender challenged than any group except maybe NRL props). How does a Rand/Hayek acolyte get to come here and tell people they’re morons? Anyone that believes that shit has the intellect of a three year old that’s just learned that eating dogshit upsets people and therefore does it as often as possible.
can you please give us another lecture on why exporting NZ jobs and deciminating Kiwi industries is such a wonderful and proper thing? We haven’t seen enough of that over the last 30 years to understand what it all means.
“can you please give us another lecture on why exporting NZ jobs and deciminating Kiwi industries is such a wonderful and proper thing? We havenât seen enough of that over the last 30 years to understand what it all means.”
@srylands. Did you watch TV3 news tonight? A good article about a kiwi running a dairy farm in China….their production was 3 times higher than in NZ. You may want to do a bit more work on whether your understanding of “comparative advantage” still exists.
Why is US Homeland Security buying 1.6B rounds of ammo?
That’s 5 bullets for every man, woman and child in the USA. At the peak of the Iraq War, US forces were using roughly 6M bullets per month. This purchase order could keep a maximum Iraq War running for 25 years. At home, on US soil.
Its funny but some of the other websites i go based in the states would totally agree with you of course you probably wouldn’t agree with some other their other political viewpoints…
Well, I’d agree with the viewpoint that the power of government over its citizens needs to be very carefully constrained. A true democracy needs due process and the rule of law applied fairly to everyone.
The lobbying arm of the NRA, The Institute for Legislative Action and certainly no cheerleader for Obama, looks at the actual numbers and calls bullshit on the conspiracy theories.
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Back in 2016, the Portuguese government announced plans to stop burning coal by 2030. But progress has come much quicker, and they're now scheduled to close their last coal plant by the end of this year: The Sines coal plant in Portugal went offline at midnight yesterday evening (14 ...
The Sincerest Form Of Flattery: As anybody with the intestinal fortitude to brave the commentary threads of local news-sites, large and small, will attest, the number of Trump-supporting New Zealanders is really quite astounding. ITâS SO DIFFICULT to resist the temptation to be smug. From the distant perspective of New Zealand, ...
RNZ reports on continued arbitrariness on decisions at the border. British comedian Russell Howard is about to tour New Zealand and other acts allowed in through managed isolation this summer include drag queen RuPaul and musicians at Northern Bass in Mangawhai and the Bay Dreams festival. The vice-president of the ...
As families around the world mourn more than two million people dead from Covid-19, the Plan B academics and their PR industry collaborator continue to argue that the New Zealand government should stop focusing on our managed isolation and quarantine system and instead protect the elderly so that they can ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Jan 10, 2021 through Sat, Jan 16, 2021Editor's ChoiceNASA says 2020 tied for hottest year on record — here’s what you can do to helpPhoto by Michael Held on Unsplash ...
Health authorities in Norway are reporting some concerns about deaths in frail elderly after receiving their COVID-19 vaccine. Is this causally related to the vaccine? Probably not but here are the things to consider. According to the news there have been 23 deaths in Norway shortly after vaccine administration and ...
Happy New Year! No, experts are not concerned that â…one of New Zealandâs COIVD-1( vaccines will fail to protect the countryâ Here is why. But first I wish to issue an expletive about this journalism (First in Australia and then in NZ). It exhibits utter failure to actually truly consult ...
All nations have shadows; some acknowledge them. For others they shape their image in uncomfortable ways.The staunch Labour supporter was in despair at what her Rogernomics Government was doing. But she finished âat least, we got rid of Muldoonâ, a response which tells us that then, and today, oneâs views ...
Grigori GuitchountsIn November, Springer Nature, one of the world’s largest publishers of scientific journals, made an attention-grabbing announcement:Â More than 30 of its most prestigious journals, including the flagship Nature, will now allow authors to pay a fee of US$11,390 to make their papers freely available for anyone to read ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Gary Yohe, Henry Jacoby, Richard Richels, and Benjamin Santer Imagine a major climate change law passing the U.S. Congress unanimously? Don’t bother. It turns out that you don’t need to imagine it. Get this: The Global Change Research Act of 1990 was passed ...
âTheyâre here already! Youâre next! Youâre next! Youâre next!âWHO CAN FORGET the penultimate scene of the 1956 movie classic, Invasion of the Body Snatchers? The wild-eyed doctor, stumbling down the highway, trying desperately to warn his fellow citizens: âTheyâre here already! Youâre next! Youâre next! Youâre next!âOstensibly science-fiction, the movie ...
TheOneRing.Net has got its paws on the official synopsis of the upcoming Amazon Tolkien TV series. It’s a development that brings to mind the line about Sauron deliberately releasing Gollum from the dungeons of Barad-dĂ»r. Amazon knew exactly what they were doing here, in terms of drumming up publicity: ...
Since Dwight Eisenhowerâs inauguration in 1953, US presidents have joined an informal club intended to provide support - and occasionally rivalry - between those few who have been âleaders of the free worldâ. Donald Trump, elected on a promise to âdrain the swampâ and a constant mocker of his predecessors, ...
For over a decade commentators have noted the rise of a new brand of explicitly ideological politics throughout the world. By this they usually refer to the re-emergence of national populism and avowedly illiberal approaches to governance throughout the “advanced” democratic community, but they also extend the thought to the ...
The US House of Representatives has just impeached Donald Trump, giving him the dubious honour of being the only US President to be impeached twice. Ten Republicans voted for impeachement, making it the most bipartisan impeachment ever. The question now is whether the Senate will rise to the occasion, and ...
Tide of tidal data rises Having cast our own fate to include rising sea level, there's a degree of urgency in learning the history of mean sea level in any given spot, beyond idle curiosity. Sea level rise (SLR) isn't equal from one place to another and even at a particular ...
Well, some of those chickens sure came home bigly, didn’t they… and proceeded to shit all over the nice carpet in the Capitol. What we were seeing here are societal forces that have long had difficulty trying to reconcile people to the “idea” of America and the reality of ...
In the wake of Donald Trump's incitement of an assault on the US capitol, Twitter finally enforced its terms of service and suspended his account. They've since followed that up with action against prominent QAnon accounts and Trumpers, including in New Zealand. I'm not unhappy with this: Trump regularly violated ...
Peter S. Ross, University of British ColumbiaThe Arctic has long proven to be a barometer of the health of our planet. This remote part of the world faces unprecedented environmental assaults, as climate change and industrial chemicals threaten a way of life for Inuit and other Indigenous and northern ...
A growing public housing waiting list and continued increase of house prices must be urgently addressed by Government, Green Party Co-leader Marama Davidson said today. ...
A Waitomo-based Jobs for Nature project will keep up to ten people employed in the village as the tourism sector recovers post Covid-19 Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. âThis $500,000 project will save ten local jobs by deploying workers from Discover Waitomo into nature-based jobs. They will be undertaking local ...
Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw spoke yesterday with President Bidenâs Special Presidential Envoy for Climate John Kerry. âI was delighted to have the opportunity to speak with Mr. Kerry this morning about the urgency with which our governments must confront the climate emergency. I am grateful to him and ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Hon Nanaia Mahuta today announced three diplomatic appointments: Alana Hudson as Ambassador to Poland John Riley as Consul-General to Hong Kong Stephen Wong as Consul-General to Shanghai  Poland âNew Zealandâs relationship with Poland is built on enduring personal, economic and historical connections. Poland is also an important ...
Work begins today at Wainuiomata High School to ensure buildings and teaching spaces are fit for purpose, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says. The Minister joined principal Janette Melrose and board chair Lynda Koia to kick off demolition for the project, which is worth close to $40 million, as the site ...
A skilled and experienced group of people have been named as the newly established Oranga Tamariki Ministerial Advisory Board by Childrenâs Minister Kelvin Davis today. The Board will provide independent advice and assurance to the Minister for Children across three key areas of Oranga Tamariki: relationships with families, whÄnau, and ...
The green light for New Zealandâs first COVID-19 vaccine could be granted in just over a week, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said today. âWeâre making swift progress towards vaccinating New Zealanders against the virus, but weâre also absolutely committed to ensuring the vaccines are safe and effective,â Jacinda Ardern said. ...
The Minister for ACC is pleased to announce the appointment of three new members to join the Board of ACC on 1 February 2021. âAll three bring diverse skills and experience to provide strong governance oversight to lead the direction of ACCâ said Hon Carmel Sepuloni. Bella Takiari-Brame from Hamilton ...
The Government is investing $9 million to upgrade a significant community facility in Invercargill, creating economic stimulus and jobs, Infrastructure Minister Grant Robertson and Te Tai Tonga MP Rino Tirikatene have announced.  The grant for WaihĆpai RĆ«naka Inc to make improvements to Murihiku Marae comes from the $3 billion set ...
[Opening comments, welcome and thank you to Auckland University etc] It is a great pleasure to be here this afternoon to celebrate such an historic occasion - the entry into force of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. This is a moment many feared would never come, but ...
The Government is providing $3 million in one-off seed funding to help disabled people around New Zealand stay connected and access support in their communities, Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni announced today. The funding will allow disability service providers to develop digital and community-based solutions over the next two ...
Border workers in quarantine facilities will be offered voluntary daily COVID-19 saliva tests in addition to their regular weekly testing, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. This additional option will be rolled out at the Jet Park Quarantine facility in Auckland starting on Monday 25 January, and then to ...
The next steps in the Governmentâs ambitious firearms reform programme to include a three-month buy-back have been announced by Police Minister Poto Williams today. âThe last buy-back and amnesty was unprecedented for New Zealand and was successful in collecting 60,297 firearms, modifying a further 5,630 firearms, and collecting 299,837 prohibited ...
Upscaling work already underway to restore two iconic ecosystems will deliver jobs and a lasting legacy, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. Â âThe Jobs for Nature programme provides $1.25 billion over four years to offer employment opportunities for people whose livelihoods have been impacted by the COVID-19 recession. âTwo new projects ...
The Government has released its Public Housing Plan 2021-2024 which outlines the intention of where 8,000 additional public and transitional housing places announced in Budget 2020, will go. âThe Government is committed to continuing its public house build programme at pace and scale. The extra 8,000 homes â 6000 public ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has congratulated President Joe Biden on his inauguration as the 46th President of the United States of America. âI look forward to building a close relationship with President Biden and working with him on issues that matter to both our countries,â Jacinda Ardern said. âNew Zealand ...
A major investment to tackle wilding pines in Mt Richmond will create jobs and help protect the areaâs unique ecosystems, Biosecurity Minister Damien OâConnor says. The Mt Richmond Forest Park has unique ecosystems developed on mineral-rich geology, including taonga plant species found nowhere else in the country. âThese special plant ...
To further protect New Zealand from COVID-19, the Government is extending pre-departure testing to all passengers to New Zealand except from Australia, Antarctica and most Pacific Islands, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. âThe change will come into force for all flights arriving in New Zealand after 11:59pm (NZT) on Monday ...
Bay Conservation Cadets launched with first intake Supported with $3.5 million grant Part of $1.245b Jobs for Nature programme to accelerate recover from Covid Cadets will learn skills to protect and enhance environment Environment Minister David Parker today welcomed the first intake of cadets at the launch of the Bay ...
The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Mark Brown have announced passengers from the Cook Islands can resume quarantine-free travel into New Zealand from 21 January, enabling access to essential services such as health. âFollowing confirmation of the Cook Islandsâ COVID ...
Jobs for Nature funding is being made available to conservation groups and landowners to employ staff and contractors in a move aimed at boosting local biodiversity-focused projects, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan has announced. It is estimated some 400-plus jobs will be created with employment opportunities in ecology, restoration, trapping, ...
The Government has approved an exception class for 1000 international tertiary students, degree level and above, who began their study in New Zealand but were caught offshore when border restrictions began. The exception will allow students to return to New Zealand in stages from April 2021. âOur top priority continues ...
Todayâs deal between Meridian and Rio Tinto for the Tiwai smelter to remain open another four years provides time for a managed transition for Southland. âThe deal provides welcome certainty to the Southland community by protecting jobs and incomes as the region plans for the future. The Government is committed ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has appointed Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). The leader of each APEC economy appoints three private sector representatives to ABAC. ABAC provides advice to leaders annually on business priorities. âABAC helps ensure that APECâs work programme is informed by business community perspectives ...
The Governmentâs prudent fiscal management and strong policy programme in the face of the COVID-19 global pandemic have been acknowledged by the credit rating agency Fitch. Fitch has today affirmed New Zealandâs local currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook and foreign currency rating at AA with a positive ...
The Government is putting in place a suite of additional actions to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, including new emerging variants, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. âGiven the high rates of infection in many countries and evidence of the global spread of more transmissible variants, itâs clear that ...
$36 million of Government funding alongside councils and others for 19 projects Investment will clean up and protect waterways and create local jobs Boots on the ground expected in Q2 of 2021 Funding part of the Jobs for Nature policy package A package of 19 projects will help clean up ...
The commemoration of the 175th anniversary of the Battle of Ruapekapeka represents an opportunity for all New Zealanders to reflect on the role these conflicts have had in creating our modern nation, says Associate Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Kiri Allan. âThe Battle at Te Ruapekapeka PÄ, which took ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adam Dunn, Associate professor, University of Sydney The government is rolling out a new public information campaign this week to reassure the public about the safety of COVID-19 vaccines, which one expert has said âcouldnât be more crucialâ to people actually getting ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Therese O’Sullivan, Associate Professor, Edith Cowan University The COVID vaccine rollout has placed the issue of vaccination firmly in the spotlight. A successful rollout will depend on a variety of factors, one of which is vaccine acceptance. One potential hurdle to vaccine ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bernard Walker, Associate Professor in Organisations and Leadership, University of Canterbury Kiwis know what itâs like when life throws curveballs. Weâve had major quakes, floods, fires, an eruption, a terrorist attack and now a pandemic. In those situations, itâs the ability to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Irwin, Emeritus professor, Murdoch University While we continue to be occupied with the COVID pandemic, another life-threatening disease has emerged in northern Australia, one thatâs cause for considerable alarm for the millions of dog owners around the country. This disease â ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cath Ferguson, Academic, Edith Cowan University Almost half of Australian adults struggle with reading. Similar levels of struggling readers are reported in the United Kingdom and United States. This does not mean all struggling readers are illiterate. It means they often struggle ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Abbas Shieh, Assistant Professor of Urban Planning and Design, Islamic Azad University The industrial revolution transformed cities, resulting in places of residence and work becoming more distant than ever before. This spatial segregation is still largely embedded in the design of our ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ari Mattes, Lecturer in Communications and Media, University of Notre Dame Australia Review: Occupation: Rainfall, written and directed by Luke Sparke Historically, when a sequel to a film was greenlit, you could rest assured this was because the first film made a ...
Welcome to The Spinoff’s live updates for January 28, keeping you up to date with the latest local and international news. Reach me on stewart@thespinoff.co.nzOur members make The Spinoff happen! Every dollar contributed directly funds our editorial team – click here to learn more about how you can support us ...
Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Tourism suffers in the shadow of Covid-19, two new positive cases in Auckland confirmed, and National will contest the Māori electorates.The front page of the January 4 Greymouth Star carried grim tidings for several of the glacier towns on the ...
*This article first appeared on RNZ and is republished with permission. Two people who left managed isolation on January 15 have been confirmed as positive Covid-19 cases, with the Ministry of Health urging anyone who visited the same locations during the same time period as the infected pair in Auckland to ...
The watchlist of 'offensive or unreasonable' babies' names is to be reviewed, to include more names from other languages. Generations of the ÄȘhaka family have played a meaningful role in bringing Te Reo and stories of MÄori to our wider community. Archdeacon Sir KÄ«ngi Matutaera ÄȘhaka (Te AupĆuri, 1921-93) was known as the orator of ...
After Moroccoâs flagrant violation of the terms of the ceasefire in Western Sahara on Friday 13 November 2020 war broke out between the two sides. In the midst of this war Tauranga based Ballance Agri-Nutrients has decided to carry on importing phosphate ...
Nicholas Agar suggests that our handling of the pandemic could be partly down to our distinctive Treaty of Waitangi relationship, and MÄori ideas that enabled us to make it through without tens of thousands of deaths A mission for universities in the coming decade will be a deep understanding of the meaning ...
A young girl who once sent $5 to an embattled America's Cup team is now among the women on the water helping run the contest for the Auld Mug. As an eager and generous nine-year-old, Melanie Roberts posted a letter, with a $5 note, to OneAustraliaâs Americaâs Cup team. It was 1995, ...
At 5am today, cock’s crow, the embargo lifted on the Ockham New Zealand Book Awards longlist. Here are the books in the race, followed by thoughts from poetry editor Chris Tse and books editor Catherine Woulfe. A shortlist of four books in each category will be announced March 3, with ...
Ignoring those QR codes when you drop into the supermarket? Can’t be bothered when you grab a coffee? The people serving you notice, and you’re freaking them out.So far, New Zealanders’ use of the Covid-19 Tracer app has been notably woeful. Food industry workers who’ve watched streams of customers walk ...
Steve Braunias reveals the longlist of the 2021 Ockham New Zealand book awards Apart from one or two unfortunate omissions which cast doubt on the sanity and intellectual acumen of judges, especially the nobodies who judged this year's non-fiction, the longlist for the 2021 Ockham New Zealand book awards is ...
By Lulu Mark in Port Moresby Papua New Guineaâs biggest hospital is straining to provide medical services to the growing population of the capital Port Moresby â with an estimated growth rate of 3 percent annually, a medical executive says. Port Moresby General Hospital chief executive officer Dr Paki Molumi ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Nationals who attend Thursdayâs memorial service in Tweed Heads for Doug Anthony, who died last month aged 90, may muse on the contrast between the state of their party when he led it and now. ...
Returning to quarantine-free travel in 2021 doesn't just need a vaccine, but a way to check whether arriving passengers are actually immune to the virus. A smart Kiwi science start-up is working with a global biometrics giant to make that happen. A deal signed between Kiwi research and development company Orbis Diagnostics, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Caitlyn Forster, PhD Candidate, School of Life and Environmental Sciences, University of Sydney This summerâs wetter conditions have created great conditions for flowering plants. Flowers provide sweet nectar and protein-rich pollen, attracting many insects, including bees. Commercial honey bees are also thriving: ...
Lotto scratchie tickets featuring the pop band Six60 are being withdrawn after a public backlash. In a statement, Lotto NZ said there had been a mutual decision made with the band to remove the tickets from sale following the negative feedback, and it offered an apology. The band faced criticism, both ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Russell Dean Christopher Bicknell, Post-doctoral researcher in Palaeobiology , University of New England Shell-crushing predation was already in full swing half a billion years ago, as our new research published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B reveals. A hyena devouring ...
Vodafone has suspended advertising on the radio station amid calls for talkback host John Banks to be taken off air after yet another racist outburst. Alex Braae reports. In an alarming segment of talkback radio, former Auckland mayor John Banks endorsed the views of a caller who described Māori as a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Welch, Senior Lecturer, University of Auckland When a COVID-19 case was found in Northland last Sunday, Aotearoaâs second-longest period with no detected community case came to an end. ESR scientists worked late into Sunday night to obtain a whole genome sequence ...
He has the perfect moustache, an exceptional mullet, and he uses terms like ‘face hole’ on national TV. Who or what is Dr Joel Rindelaub?I was drawn in by the moustache, but it was the mullet that really kept me there. Watching TVNZ’s Breakfast yesterday morning I was fixated. Often, ...
Weâll never be royals with nearly a quarter of declined baby names featuring âRoyalâ in some form or another. Te Tari Taiwhenua Department of Internal Affairs has released the list of names declined in 2020 by the Registrar-General of Births, Deaths and ...
After a raft of inquiries delving into and recommending what should be done about the politically beleaguered Orangi Tamaraki, along with the briefing papers we suppose he has been given, we imagined Childrenâs Minister Kelvin Davis would have no more need for expert advice.   Wrong. He has ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vincent Ho, Senior Lecturer and clinical academic gastroenterologist, Western Sydney University Thereâs a common assumption men take longer than women to poo. People say so on Twitter, in memes, and elsewhereonline. But is that right? What could explain it? And if ...
Just as sexuality is a spectrum, so too is asexuality. In Ace of Hearts, members of New Zealand’s asexual community talk about the challenges and misconceptions of identifying as ace.First published November 17, 2020.Ace of Hearts is part of Frame, a series of short documentaries produced by Wrestler for The Spinoff.“A ...
Sam Brooks wasn’t allowed to watch kids TV as a kid. Now, as a 30 year old man, he watches it for the first time.My mother’s approach to parenting was unorthodox. I wrote weekly book reports on top of my actual homework, I did maths equations in Roman numerals and ...
Pacific Media Watch newsdesk More leading Indonesian figures have made racial slurs against Natalius Pigai, former chair of the National Human Rights Commission (Komnas HAM) â and all West Papuans, says United Liberation Movement of West Papua (ULMWP) interim president Benny Wenda. âSince the illegal Indonesian invasion in 1963, Indonesian ...
âThe Governmentâs failure to even conduct a standard cost-benefit analysis for the most expensive infrastructure project in New Zealandâs history is mind-bogglingly arrogant,â says New Zealand Taxpayersâ Union spokesman Louis Houlbrooke. âA ...
The Ministry of Health is today drawing backlash from the local New Zealand vaping industry following its release of proposed regulations for the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Act. Vaping Trade Association New Zealand (VTANZ) President, ...
Sophie Gilmour and Simon Day are joined by special guest Hugo Baird, co-owner of Grey Lynn’s Honey Bones and Lilian, to talk about opening new pub Hotel Ponsonby.Auckland is a city of many bars but few really good pubs – the kind of places you’d be just as comfortable going ...
The appointment of an advisory board for Oranga Tamariki is welcome and should be a step toward a total transformation of the care and protection system to a by MÄori, for MÄori approach, Childrenâs Commissioner Andrew Becroft said today. Minister ...
Taking control of your financial wellbeing can have cascading positive impacts for your life and it can also be fun. With the help of the team at Kiwi Wealth, we’ve compiled some simple tricks for balancing your books in 2021. There’s something about the beginning of a new year, especially after ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kris Gledhill, Professor of Law, Auckland University of Technology As we know, getting into New Zealand during the COVID-19 pandemic is difficult. There are practicalities, such as high airfare and managed isolation costs. And there are legal requirements, including pre-flight testing, mandatory ...
New Zealand faces the risk of a generation being locked out of the housing market unless land is freed up and more houses built, National Party leader Judith Collins says. ...
On Sunday, Stuff published a months-long investigation by Alison Mau detailing allegations of harassment and exploitation within the local music industry.The piece, ‘Music industry professionals demand change after speaking out about its dark side’, includes allegations of inappropriate behaviour and abuse of power by male artists, international acts and executives; ...
âThe Government is all at sea on timelines for Australia and New Zealandâs respective vaccine roll-outs, with the worst news coming from the mouth of Pfizer Australia CEO Anne Harris,â says ACT Leader David Seymour. âYesterday, under increasing ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Claire Higgins, Senior Research Fellow, Kaldor Centre for International Refugee Law, UNSW As a presidential candidate, Joe Biden promised the US would demonstrate âglobal leadership on refugeesâ. Once elected, he pledged to vastly increase refugee resettlement in the US. If history is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alex Baumann, Casual Academic, School of Social Sciences & Psychology, Western Sydney University Among the many hard truths exposed by COVID-19 is the huge disparity between the worldâs rich and poor. As economies went into freefall, the worldâs billionaires increased their already ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jan Lanicek, Senior Lecturer in Modern European History and Jewish History, UNSW On January 27 communities worldwide commemorate the liberation of Auschwitz â the largest complex of concentration camps and extermination centres during the Holocaust. This is the first year the International ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lorinda Cramer, Postdoctoral Research Associate, Australian Catholic University The summer break is over, marking a return to the office. For some, this ends almost a year of working from home in lockdown. Some analysts are predicting it might also mark an enduring ...
Welcome to The Spinoff’s live updates for January 27, keeping you up to date with the latest local and international news. Reach me on stewart@thespinoff.co.nzOur members make The Spinoff happen! Every dollar contributed directly funds our editorial team – click here to learn more about how you can support us ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexander Gillespie, Professor of Law, University of Waikato New Zealand has a strong history of protecting and promoting human rights at home and internationally, and prides itself on being an outspoken critic and global leader in this area. So, when the most ...
Good morning and welcome to the Bulletin. In today’s edition: Collins outlines the plan forward for National, no spread of Covid spotted yet in Northland, and students return for climate protest.In front of a Rotary Club at the Ellerslie Racecourse in Auckland, National leader Judith Collins yesterday set out her ...
*This articlefirst appeared on RNZ and is republished with permission. The tourism industry isn't holding its breath for a trans-Tasman travel bubble being in place after Australia temporarily closed its borders to New Zealand. New Zealanders could be waiting even longer for a full trans-Tasman bubble, with the ...
âââââââThe hurt caused by border closures is proving unsustainable for some of the country's 330 hotels, and they are closing their doors. ...
We continue our week-long examination of New Zealand writer Roderick Finlayson with an essay by Anahera Gildea on cultural appropriation Every night at 7pm sharp, my Irish Catholic father and his eight siblings would have to kneel on the carpet of the living room, facing the freshly polished nudity of ...
A Covid reset will force costly and inflexible cities to take a hard look at their planning systems, or people will vote with their feet. Broken urban planning systems make for misery even in the best of times. If land use and housing regulations prevent metropolitan areas from growing up or out as ...
Children's Minister Kelvin Davis will have independent eyes and ears across Oranga Tamariki over the next five months as the Government tries to change the work and practices of the ministry. The Government has created a MÄori-led watchdog to oversee how the children's ministry, Oranga Tamariki, deals with parents and ...
When an Auckland school classroom went up in flames in December last year, exploding asbestos over neighbouring houses, five separate government agencies were involved. Yet stressed residents dealing with the aftermath on their homes say the response felt chaotic and uncoordinated; even local MPs who got involved couldn't get the information they wanted. Hundreds of thousands of ...
The pandemic has accelerated the trend of doing our banking online instead of in person. This rapid digital embrace has, in turn, sped up the closure of many smaller bank branches. But, as Mark Jennings writes, there are new branches springing up with a different look and purpose. Aucklandâs Wynyard ...
Corrina Gage has represented New Zealand in a trio of water sports. But it's her love for waka ama - and the opportunities it gives paddlers from 5 to 85 - that keeps her racing and coaching around the world. Lake KarÄpiro is quiet and still now. But last week, it was all noise ...
Telling a Rotary Club audience that housing is a serious problem and they should care deeply about it landed flat but took some daring from the National leader, writes Justin Giovannetti.Judith Collins’ level of control over the National Party is still a question best answered by a shrug.Elevated to her ...
A gang turf war gripped the South Auckland suburb in late 2020, forcing schools to lock down and armed police to patrol the streets. Community leaders are now warning the cycle of violent retribution could continue in 2021, unless radical interventions are made.The violent altercations that loomed large in Ōtara ...
Auckland writer Olivia Hayfield* explains how she resurrected 16th-century playwright Christopher Marlowe to star in her new novel, Sister to Sister. Olivia Hayfield is a pen name. Real name: Sue Copsey. When I’m planning my modern retellings of historical tales, I read widely on the characters and see who leaps out at ...
i know that they are only online polls..(..with all those inherent qualifications to that result..)
..but both stuff and nz herald polls are showing cunnliffe ..closely followed by ardern ..having a clear lead..
(and robertson nowhere in sight..)
..which i would submit/repeat..that as far as electorate-appeal (i.e..winning!) is concerned..
..a cunnliffe/ardern ticket will be the one to get labour its’ best result..
phillip ure..
I favour Wall as Cunliffe’s deputy – looking towards the politically disengaged and low income people. However, Ardern would be a preferable compromise as Deputy over Robertson. Robertson as deputy is a move to unite the caucus. Ardern has personal appeal (largely to the middleclasses, I suspect), plus could help to unite caucus factions.
I feel less secure on the Herald poll because Cunliffe and Ardern are both Auckland-based MPs, so they’re going to have much better name recognition from Herald readers.
(On the other hand, there’s probably a lot more Labour members in Auckland than in Wellington).
I also wonder how much there’s a youth/social media skew in Ardern’s favour. But she wouldn’t be the worst candidate!
Cunliffe and Ardern would rejuvenate the party. A major reshuffle would appeal to the younger voter. From a younger person in the last few days I have heard how grand dad and grandma the Labour party have been for about a decade.
I agree. Robertson is a beltway pollie as has been amply pointed out. For this reason he will struggle to gain full traction – just like Shearer failed to gain full traction. The fact he is gay I don’t think will be a problem, except for those people would never vote to the left anyway (the right wing harbours all such bigots as is well known). For most ordinary people the fact he is gay will be non problema.
Cunliffe and Adern would make a great combo. Adern is certainly an attractive woman and this will have a positive impact. I wonder if Little would also make a great no. 2 too.
Labour needs to think hard, accurately, discard the flotsam, don’t complicate things (difficult I know for lefties), and make solid sensible obvious decisions. If Cunliffe has the running already then listen to it.
Robertson, Little, Adern and others are all still relatively young and have plenty of time left to have a crack later. Give it to Cunliffe – I don’t think he wants to stand for the VTO Party anymore anyway…
Please don’t laugh at my ignorance – I have to ask, I hear this term beltway all the time but don’t know what it means.
What I fathom from the conversations is that a beltway politician is one that is ensconced cosily inside the machinery of their party. Are they are more connected to, or committed to the internal politics of the party than the people they seek to represent? I have no idea.
The term beltway also puts me in mind of a luggage carousel at an airport.
Silly US Washington DC term, where the governmental/capitol area is surrounded by a ring road of US highways.
Less literally, it is the political centre of a nation sometimes too inward looking and insular/isolated from the people and country the inhabitants are supposed to actually represent and govern.
‘beltway’-definition:..
..cocktail parties @ farrars’..
phillip ure..
As CV says, “Beltway” is a US term taken from the ring road/motorway that runs around (or as part) of Washington DC, which is called the “Beltway”.
As a side issue in his excellent blog post on Public Address on the aftermath of the passing of the GCSB Bill, Jon Stephenson raises the (in)appropriateness of its use in relation to Wellington and there is quite a bit of discussion in the comments on this. But Jon’s post is well worth reading for its main topic.
http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-naked-inside-the-off-ramp/
PS – hope you are enjoying the beautiful morning here in Wellington – signs of spring indeed.
Ah! Thank you CV, phillip ure and veutoviper. That does make sense, I could have looked it up but it’s more interesting and the meaning has more depth when it comes from the knowledgeable ones who comment here.
I wonder if it is this ‘beltway’ style of politics that contributes to the disengagement of people from taking an interest in politics and ultimately from voting. They naturally feel disconnected from and resentful towards a system of governance that they perceive as disinterested in them as people. Not the only factor though. Apologies again for not keeping up…….
Thanks for the link vv. I had seen that in my browsings in recent days but will now pay attention.
Yes, lovely spring morning here in Wgtn, made even more spring like by the sound of bleating lambs over the back fence, and more enjoyable by the absence of quakes.
the right wing harbours all such bigots as is well known
… đ
i would add to the above..that the meme pushed by beltway/media etc of robertson having ‘the mongrel’ to take it to key..
..seems based in little fact/evidence..
..all i can say..from doing commentaries on q-time for some years now..
..is that i have seen little signs of this ‘mongrel’ from robertson..
..and in fact what i have seen..in those q-times – is robertson easily swatted away by the likes of ryall..(!)
..robertson..in his health-spokesperson role up againt ryall..had/showed not so much ‘mongrel’..
..as all the traction of a puppy trying to climb an oil-smeared window..
..whereas cunnliffe..(from those same q-time observations)..kinda operates like a surgeon..
..and deftly chops to pieces the arguments/fallacies of/from national..
..when cunliffe steps up to the mike..i kinda put the feet up/sit back/and enjoy the performance..he rarely fails/ed to deliver..
..and a final point i would make..is to urge those in labour who will decide this outcome..
..not to forget how important winning/taking back from national – auckland will be..
..and then ask yrslves..
..who is best positioned to do that for labour..?
..’beltway’-robertson..?.and whoever..?
…or ‘downtown’-cunnliffe..?..matched with ‘grey lynn’ ardern as his deputy-leader..?
(and in that deputy-leader role..ardern will likely claw back auckland central from national..the symbolism of which will be obvious..)
..it’s a bit of a no-brainer really..eh..?
..phillip ure..
John Armstrong: NZ Herald’s senior political journalist? – on David Cunliffe:
Great analysis that!
i looked at that one from armstrong in my early-morning sweep thru the herald..
..issued a derisory-laugh..
..and passed/moved on…
..phillip ure..
I am disappointed Shearer stood down.
He was leading Labour into well deserved oblivion.
This opened up the possibility of a genuine fighting left movement emerging. In fact we are starting to see the beginnings of it now, as we always do after a few years of National.
I have no problems with Robertson. He would continue Shearer’s good work of removing the Labour Party barrier to building a left movement.
Cunliffe is a worry.
There is every chance he will rebuild confidence in Labour and we will end up in yet another cycle of hope and despair that will first see the destruction of left fightback momentum as people put their trust in social democrat politicians once again, then the ineveitable betrayal as a Labour led government sides with the ruling class as usual.
(re leftys’ concerns..this was trotters’ take from the daily blog yesterday..)
“..There can be no doubt as to which of these two most strongly represents the partyâs and the unionsâ desire for Labour to execute a decisive shift to the left. Since the onset of the Global Financial Crisis in 2008-09, David Cunliffe has steadily come to the view that the social democratic and labour parties of the West can no longer realistically subscribe to a business-as-usual approach to economic and social policy. Neoliberalism-lite, or free-market capitalism minus its jagged edges, is no longer a credible working model for parties of the centre-left.
The personal confidence (some would say arrogance) required to carry off such a departure from political and economic orthodoxy has, until now, weighed heavily against Cunliffeâs leadership prospects in the minds of his caucus colleagues.
The right-wing faction of the caucus certainly exploited this diffidence to slow the advance of their most dangerous ideological opponent. In the process they were greatly assisted by Grant Robertsonâs personal leadership ambitions.
Indeed, without the roadblock erected by Robertsonâs supporters – the right-wingers would not have been able to prevent Cunliffe taking the leadership in December 2011..”
– See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/08/23/crossing-the-fault-line-making-the-case-for-a-cunliffe-robertson-unity-ticket/#sthash.VJnYGpiY.dpuf
phillip ure..
Phil
I would like to buy into the narrative of Cunliffe as the great redeemer but to do so would be a triumph of hope over experience.
The problem is every Labour Prime Minister since Norman Kirk has held out such hope and promise prior to their election.
Each one of them has played an important part in starting and cementing in the neo liberal agenda, despite promising the opposite.
Why would we believe Cunliffe is any different?
He might be genuine but history informs us this is unlikely to be the case.
We are better off putting faith in ourselves and building strong left moverments than waiting for a great redeemer.
It would be ok to do both at the same time but once in power Labour does everything it can to neutralise or absorb left social and political movements.
Do we really want to go through that again?
lefty..i hear/understand what you are saying about past dashed-hopes..
..a personal-nadir of this ilk..was watching the clark-govt do s.f.a. for the poorest/victims of ruthenasia..
..for budget after budget..for nine long years..
(and all the while crying crocodile-tears justifying the expansion of middle-class-welfare/employer-subsidies..by crying ‘how hard’ middle-class couples were finding it tough’..(struggling on incomes those poorest would view as rivers of gold..)
..but the difference from then to now..is that the neo-lib-consensus that made labour/national tweeddle-dum and tweedle-dee..has been largely smashed..
..the green party is now a different animal from the one that was not so long ago eyelid-batting/skirt-lifting at key/national..
..and the mana party growing apace..(and of course labour should stand aside in those maori seats mana stand in..do a banks/epsom on national/key..)
..i see labour now also realising the old ways are gone/discredited..
..and that a return to the original reasons for the foundation of that party prevail again..
..and perhaps more importantly..a public that is so opposed to asst-sales/spooking-laws is also open to a new way of doing things..
..and as they say..timing is all..
..so all these circumstances/current-realities come together to make me (mildly)-optimistic that this time will be different from others…
..and if as trotter claims..cunnliffe has already rejected that neo-lib paradigm..
..he would seem best placed to take that role..
..whereas what must not be forgotten about robertson..
..was his all-too-recent dog-whistle to the right/current-elite-paradigm..
..that power-reform was all the reform any incoming labour govt would undertake..(!)
..just that craven/kowtowing-outburst should discount robertson..
..(he really is tweedle-dum in waiting..)
..and would perhaps further define that definition of robertson as ‘beltway’ –
– that was requested further up the thread..
..phillip ure..
Phillip Ure, while i admire your ‘faith’ i think it is somewhat misplaced, time of course will tell whether or not David Cunliffe can form a Labour Party into one that takes up where Norm Kirk’s Labour Government ended,
Through ‘rogernomics’,(to my shame i stuffed letterboxes to help that abysmal Government get elected), and through that long 9 years of the Clark Governments i clung to ‘faith’ that sooner or later Labour would see that the neo-liberal paradigm was the path not to salvation of the majority, but the road to poverty for 10% while those above them cowered in fear that they too might end up ‘down there’,
Until that is Helen Clarke uttered these words, ”If beneficiaries want to receive Working for Families payments they can get a job”,
That was my and Labour’s parting of the ways, i have no ‘faith’ whatsoever that Labour have actually changed one iota from that attitude, i have not seen nor heard one iota in a Cunliffe speech which would lead me to the belief that Cunliffe himself has resiled from the Clarke position,
My view is that even a Cunliffe lead Labour Party will show little compassion to the homeless and the poor and that any gains for the bottom 10-20-30% of New Zealand will have to be chiseled from Labour from the smaller coalition partners,
As far as the neo-liberal social and economic paradigm being smashed, i wish it were so, BUT, the number of people losing their employment in the past 12 months alone while company profits grow would tend to suggest that business as usual is the order of the day,
Faith you may have in a rejuvenated Labour Party, us that have lost that faith have now seen that only force, the force of coalition politics that will give Labour no choice but to take up a real Labour Government program at the point where the Government of Norm Kirk came to a sad and untimely end…
[lprent: If you want to quote people, then it pays you to link to it. Apart from anything else it makes this site liable for being sued if it is untrue (as I think it is in this case).
Normally I’d just zap the suspect quote and it is likely that whoever did it would face a long and arduous ban. I’m going to leave this one up on the basis that Helen is likely to talk to me first.
However I strongly suggest that you either find a link/source or state that you cannot. ]
“Until that is Helen Clarke uttered these words, âIf beneficiaries want to receive Working for Families payments they can get a jobâ,”
Cite?
re ‘cite’..does it need to be cited te reo..?
..the (non)-actions of the clark govt spoke much louder/provide a better record of those words..
..eh..?
phillip ure..
Because I take against people who make shit up, Phil.
That quote is deeply ingrained in the memory of a lot of those who gives a shit about the poor.
Beneficiaries don’t need to produce academic proof of the real life insults and denigration they have experienced at the hands of neo liberals like Clark to make them true.
I really don’t understand this stuck in the past mentality?
You don’t need to have faith. You just need to look at some of their proposed policies. Although there is now some doubt by certain critics, Labour is likely to implement a working for families type policy for beneficiaries. They have even said that Helen Clark was wrong not to include beneficiaries from the get go.
There is no doubt however that Labour will undo some of the damage National has caused to employment laws. Workers rights will be a hot topic when it comes to Labour’s policy development. Under a Labour government, wages are likely to increase and perhaps even match or overtake inflation for once.
Labour has a number of housing policies that could easily be enhanced to mean homelessness isn’t a reality for many New Zealanders (are there any stats on this?). Building an additional 10,000 houses per year, limiting the amount of property speculation and making it easier for average Kiwi families to purchase a house are all beneficial policies for the people of Aotearoa.
Although it was David Shearer saying it, either David Cunliffe or Grant Robertson as leader will implement a review and then replace the GCSB legislation. That change will assuredly mean an end to mass wholesale surveillance on Kiwis by the GCSB and their affiliate agencies.
Labour will also adopt some of the Greens environmental policies to ensure their coalition support. All of these things will move New Zealand away from the destructive neo-liberal paradigm and towards a more equal society. But hey, if you want to wallow in the past and blame Labour for the present situation bad12, go right ahead.
It is not wallowing in the past to remember the same promises being made by Labour in the past.
Or to have enough political nous to see what social democrat parties are doing/have recently done in other parts of the world.
We are not talking ancient history here, many New Zealanders have experienced the real live betrayals of Lange and Clark, both of whom looked like bright shiny beacons of hope compared with National at the time.
How many times does the same thing have to happen before people understand it probably going to happen again.
Ok then Jackel seeing as you have given me the invite to wallow in Labour’s past i will,
The Lange Government improves beneficiaries living standards by adding PAYE to benefit payments, you might like to think that that only effected beneficiaries way back then, but added to Nationals later attack of direct benefit cuts this simply leaves today’s beneficiaries around $40 a week worse off in today’s terms, wallow wallow,
The Clark Government refused to make WFF a universal benefit where all children could access such payments on an equal basis, as the recipients of benefits are a huge ‘churn’ today’s beneficiaries are not likely to have been in receipt of a benefit back in 2004 that could have been bolstered by WFF but in terms of income as a comparison with the rest of society today’s beneficiaries are negative up to another $60 a week, wallow wallow,
Yes even at the 2011 election Labour’s Annette King,(i took as an act of desperation at the time), even went so far as to say that beneficiaries would be included in WFW, She, (i assume having been counselled), a couple of days later qualified that inclusion with the words ”in time”,
So, as you say Labour and i know it was a mistake to not make WFF a universal benefit for children, i hope to hear David Cunliffe after He becomes leader of the Labour Party say just that in a future speech, and i don’t know if i will be more surprised if He doesn’t than if He does…
Jackal would prefer all of us to embrace the deliberate political amnesia that NZ is so famous for.
You’re being a prat again CV.
bad said:..
“..Yes even at the 2011 election Labourâs Annette King,(i took as an act of desperation at the time), even went so far as to say that beneficiaries would be included in WFW, She, (i assume having been counselled), a couple of days later qualified that inclusion with the words âin timeâ..
as i recall..the ‘promise was to include them at an incremental rate that would have seen parity reached/full payment..
..by 2018..?..
..yet i guess some in labour were puzzled at the apparant indifference from those labour had ignored for so long..at this largesse..
(puzzled we/they weren’t filling the streets..sobbing in gratitude..)
..and puzzled why how those they had ignored for so long..continued to ignore them in return..
..a large part of me fears that many in labour still have not learnt that lesson..
..and will advocate/argue for minimal/incremental-increases for the poorest/most suffering..at best..
..phillip ure..
bad..i totally agree with you it is the minor coalition parties that will be dragging labour to many of those needed policies/actions..(not necessarily any 30’s labour-rebirth/eruption from within..)
..so what is needed is a labour party not averse to being taken to that well..
..and going on their records/pronouncments to date..
..i see cunnliffe as being more willing to sup..than robertson..
..(but i wd hasten to add..that i don’t think i am looking at labour/anycoalition thru rose-tinted glasses..
..and i retain enough cynicism to brace myself to go and stand in the bitter/disappointment-corner..by early 2016..)
..(btw..my voting-arc to date is labour/greens/mana..)
phillip ure..
I don’t know who this Helen Clarke was. However I can’t remember Helen Clark saying that, nor do I think that it is likely that she would have said it.
The reason for not including beneficiaries in the WFF was pretty simple. WFF was structured as a tax credit – so think about that.
Beneficiaries pay very little tax so consequently the effect of a tax credit is 5/8th of piss all. Moreover it would be a lot easier to simply directly increase the payments to beneficiaries with kids and to make the housing supplements related to number of kids. Which is what I seem to remember happened.
Actually most beneficiaries pay the same tax rate as people who work. The subsequent rulings on this matter certainly didn’t view the amount of tax beneficiaries pay as being a valid reason for them to not be included in the scheme.
Beneficiaries who spend their last dollar (ie all of them) pay 15% tax.
GST.
It’s a surprise that Douglas, Prebble, Caygill et al would bring in such a regressive tax. In 1986.
And Beneficiaries have the distinction of paying the most tax if they are working part time as well. For starters we are taxed at the secondary rate amd when we hit that much vaunted target of 80 bucks a week we get hammered even harder.
Colonial Viper âŠ
24 August 2013 at 12:22 pm
“Itâs a surprise that Douglas, Prebble, Caygill et al would bring in such a regressive tax. In 1986.”
Because it is an efficient tax.
The solution to the hight EMTRs that welfare recipients face is a guaranteed minimum income of $15,000 for everyone over 18. No means test. No abatement. No WINZ nightmare work tests.
@ aj:
likely rent makes up a large proportion of their spending, which is GST free.
Its ridiculous, I agree.
@shitlands
yes, but of course a tax can be highly regressive AND efficient at the same time. Where again, this is another instance of the term “efficient” to do with caning the poorest.
As for your minimum guaranteed income idea, great idea, but its still a pipe dream, whereas the regressiveness of GST is very here and now.
“yes, but of course a tax can be highly regressive AND efficient at the same time. Where again, this is another instance of the term âefficientâ to do with caning the poorest.”
Oh fuck off Viper you moron. How is that basement flat?
If a tax is not efficient it won’t raise revenue without crimping growth.
We have one of the lowest GST rates in the world. Oh Brunei doesn’t have a GST. Doesn’t have a welfare system either.
Crawl back to your hole.
“As for your minimum guaranteed income idea, great idea, but its still a pipe dream, ”
Viper you fucking moron. It is less of a pipe dream than any of the ideas I have seen snaking like shit from you.
Gosh LPrent i fall about in absolute horror at having mis-spelt a name, can i please be forgiven,(it’s not like you have 100% perfection or do you),
i well remember Clark saying exactly that or words to that effect, and have just spent the last hour trying to find a link to this which so far has not been successful, and will happily withdraw the comment i made above should i not be able to find a link,
Yes exactly if you want to specifically exclude the children of beneficiaries from gaining access to more money then you structure a benefit in such a way that those children cannot access it,(if children with parents earning $60,000 a year ‘needed’ this tax credit then the children of beneficiaries needed it a hell of a lot more, obviously that’s ‘only’ my opinion and please feel free to tell us all your opinion on that question),
”Beneficiaries pay very little tax” now that i would suggest is a ‘Tui Statement’, on one level you are correct, beneficiaries pay little tax because beneficiaries get paid sod all,
i don’t know what your income is Lprent, but consider your fixed costs and if you have ANY disposable income after that where it is your choice how you spend such disposable income or if you spend it at all,
As a % of income beneficiaries pay at least 27% of their total income on tax, both income and GST, if using tobacco products and/or petrol products that taxation rises dramatically to 27-35% of income, not much tax in dollar terms that may be, but as a % of income they are highly taxed,
”Housing supplements related to the number of kids” you remember that happening seems to me to be in the realm of me remembering Helen Clark telling beneficiaries that if they wanted Working for Families payments they should get a job,
Bet you will have as much trouble finding a link to that as i am to the Clark quote…
iprent said:..
“..I donât know who this Helen Clarke was. However I canât remember Helen Clark saying that, nor do I think that it is likely that she would have said it. ..”
(if she didn’t utter those specific words..this is what she did..)
“..The reason for not including beneficiaries in the WFF was pretty simple. WFF was structured as a tax credit â so think about that…”
(um..!..sorry..!..what exactly should one think about that..?..
..and how does that defend/excuse in any way the thesis of the clark labour govts’ nine year record of studious ignoring of the needs of the poorest..?..)
“..Beneficiaries pay very little tax..”
(as others have noted..benificiaries pay an extra 15% tax on 100% of their incomes..(g.s.t..)..
..this n top of the p.a.y.e. tax already extracted/deducted from that pittance..
..not to mention benificiaries having the highest claw-back taxes of any group..85% on any income over $80..(that one shut up a rightwing friend of mine..)
“.. Moreover it would be a lot easier to simply directly increase the payments to beneficiaries with kids – and to make the housing supplements related to number of kids. Which is what I seem to remember happened..”
..as one who lived through it..what you mention as moves undertaken by labour..was directing a garden hose at a holocaust..
..and did diddly-squat to undo in any way what had been wrought by richardson/shipley et al..
..and anyway..whither the childless unemployed/sick..?
..during those nine years..
..it is the hallmark of that clark government..and the biggest stain on their record..
..that they not only ignored/stigmatised the poor themselves..for those nine long years..
..but in doing so they also prepared the ground so well for the likes of bennett..eh..?..to launch the current/ongoing pogrom/war on the poor..
..but coming back to the here and now..surely any hope for a real ‘new’ labour party to be accepted (and perhaps more importantly) believed – by the electorate/those they ignored for so long/the current non-voters..?
..there has to be a coherent renunciation of the neo-lib that came before…surely..?..and promises to repair..?
..much as david milliband has done in britain in the last 24 hrs..where he..in his arguments/promises of a living-wage from any incoming labour govt in britain..for all..
(are you listening..?..nz labour..?..a ‘living-wage..?..’for all’..(the formula to end/do away with the blight of poverty in nz one fell swoop..).
…milliband has apologised for the labour that came before..and has promised to to make amends..
“..Answering critics who said he needed to admit that the Labour government made mistakes â Miliband said its economic policies had been lop-sided â and it had got it wrong.
âWe have to change our economyâ he said.
âWe were going down the up escalator –
– putting money into tax credits â but building a low-wage economy.â
Labour should back demands for a national living wage that paid more than the minimum wage â he said.
âItâs a priority for us.
Itâs important because frankly itâs terrible that one of the richest countries in the world hasnât just a huge child poverty problem –
– but a growing child poverty problem –
– including for people who are in work.â
(once again..are you listening..?..nz labour..?..)
..phillip ure…
phillip ure
I have to disagree there. This issue barely rated a mention in the mainstream media when it was occurring. There was certainly no real analysis even though there was a protracted battle to try and change the decision to not include beneficiaries. Now I would struggle to find any mention of it at all even though the effects of such legislation are only just now really coming home to roost.
In many ways it is the same as National’s latest round of beneficiary bashing. There is simply no information available about all those thousands of predominantly young people who are being kicked off welfare and have no other income. Paula Bennett cannot even answer questions relating to the exact numbers involved…she just giggles instead FFS! We can only guess at how detrimental these policies will be on society.
Therefore the issue of Labour not implementing a WFF type policy for beneficiaries barely rates as a stain on the last Labour government…except for those who understand politics and go looking for information that is. However there is no doubt that if Labour could afford to subsidize businesses by paying middle class families a tax incentive for their low wages, they assuredly could have done more to alleviate the terrible rate of severe poverty in New Zealand. Let’s hope they have learnt from their mistakes.
WFF was structured as a tax credit â so think about that.
That’s a wee bit disingenuous, lprent. Working for Families wasn’t some bright-eyed all-loving scheme to help poor families which “just happened” to be limited by being structured as a tax cut. It was deliberately denied to beneficiary families in order to “incentivise” them into work.
It’s basically the single most abhorrent example of how the Labour Party’s thinking over the past decade has been about securing middle-class votes by promoting the idea of some poor people as “deserving” and others as scapegoats. Are children going to go hungry because their parents can’t find work following a global financial crisis? Who cares as long as we get re-elected!
“It was deliberately denied to beneficiary families in order to âincentiviseâ them into work.”
Yep, and to demonstrate that Labour considered the beneficiary class needed incentivising.
If you search Red Alert you will find David Cunliffe, in response to me actually, saying that he believes in comparative advantage.
Lolz Draco, i find comparative advantage a little too chinese for my limited intellect, funnily enough i am not trying to undermine David Cunliffe in my previous comments no matter what they appear to transmit,
David Cunliffe would seem to be the best candidate to assume the Labour leadership and become the next Prime Minister having defeated the Slippery little shyster currently masquerading in that position,
i do tho have the opinion that large sections of the Labour Party and by extension the Labour Caucus believe that the Green Party will simply enable any old government as a lapdog coalition partner much as the smaller partners in previous coalitions have, and the Green Party will have to work hard to bring about the social changes much needed in our society in effect having to chisel any gains for the lowest 30% of people in our society out of a possibly reluctant Labour,
i sat silently non-critical of the Clark government for most of it’s reign Hoping, i do not really see myself extending the benefit of that silence and Hope if a David Cunliffe Labour Government suddenly finds ‘reform’ to be too hard…
Neither was I, I was pointing out that David Cunliffe still believes in neo-liberalism – the same as Helen Clark obviously did.
“If you search Red Alert you will find David Cunliffe, in response to me actually, saying that he believes in comparative advantage.”
I am sure that applies to all New Zealand political parties except the Greens, Mana, and NZ First.
How is that news?
It’s not – which is the problem. Almost all of our political parties won’t change the underlying system which is causing poverty in our country and destroying our environment.
What does ‘comparative advantage’ mean?
Its a very old economics idea.
It was first espoused along the lines of England has a comparative advantage in producing wool and cloth, while Portugal has a comparative advantage in producing grapes and wine.
England and Portugal should stick to what they are good at doing, and then trade with each other so that each can have cloth and wine.
(The start of a philosophy of globalised trade)
Comparative advantage is meaningless today because most goods traded do not rely on natural environmental and climactic conditions. You can build an iPad or a Ford Territory just as well in China as you can in the USA, for instance.
“Comparative advantage is meaningless today because most goods traded do not rely on natural environmental and climactic conditions. You can build an iPad or a Ford Territory just as well in China as you can in the USA, for instance.”
Bullshit
You can also make excellent wine and excellent cloth in at least three dozen different countries around the world.
The original theory of comparative advantage is mostly bunk now.
“The original theory of comparative advantage is mostly bunk now.”
Bullshit
In addition, the massive growth of the financial economy means that the old theories of comparative advantage are largely bunk now. You can situate servers, trading desks and fibre optic cables most places in the world very easily, for instance. Financial centres and corporate ownership don’t have to be anywhere near where the raw materials, workers, or factories actually are.
Bottom line – “comparative advantage” theories are largely irrelevant.
“Bottom line â âcomparative advantageâ theories are largely irrelevant.”
Bullshit. You really are a moron aren’t you?
And since the internet revolution, theories of comparative advantage have decreased in relevance even further.
The next multi-billion dollar Yahoo! or Google! could just as easily come out of Mumbai, Beijing, Perth, Auckland or Moscow.
Its well over time that economics updates many of its basic tenets, but given the fundamentalist nature of the discipline and its acolytes, it seems sadly unlikely.
“And since the internet revolution, theories of comparative advantage have decreased in relevance even further.”
Bullshit. New Zealand has comparative advantage in fuck all. Dairy will be our lot for the forseeable future. I wonder why?
Maybe Qatar will start a dairying industry now that comparative advantage is finished. They will be printing cows using 3D printers.
You really are a fucking moron aren’t you?
OK I will admit that NZ has a comparative advantage in dairy when compared to desert lands and to say the stony peaks of the Himalayas.
Is this an example of the brilliant insights of your outdated theory? Seems to be a bit mundane and prosaic.
Comparative Advantage
It’s all a load of bollocks though as the benefits of comparative advantage are so tiny that interest rates above 0% turn the benefits of trade negative. Also, Absolute advantage, which is what C.V. first identifies and has a spat with srylands over, will always trump comparative advantage as well.
The problem then becomes that no country has any advantage over any other country in manufactured goods as all factories produced today are as efficient as all other factories – they’re designed that way. The fact that all factories are as efficient as all others also removes economies of scale from the equation – bigger factories no longer have the productivity advantage that they did in the 19th century.
The difference we see in prices are artificial and not a result of improved efficiencies. What all this means is that all countries could produce everything they require in their own borders cheaper than they could get anything through trade.
That leaves food but even there we don’t have any advantages. Kiwifruit can, and are, grown elsewhere. So are cows and, in fact, pretty much everything else we produce here. That’s why we, every now and then, get a few people who understand this complaining that China is importing our cows and know-how and they’re right. As soon as China does get those things our dairy industry is history as China happen to be a lot closer to our main market for such things – China.
Oh good, we can go back to growing our own food then.
Thanks CV and DtB for explaining.
The original comment about Cunliffe not resiling from Clark’s position, hence his belief in comparative advantage, was that re neoliberalism? (I originally read it as not resiling from the WFF position).
LPrent, feel free to zap the quote as i am having trouble finding a link to Clark having said such,
i will keep looking and put the quote in another comment if i find a link to it…
Right wasn’t that a f**king arduous little task, having asked the question of Google in a zillion different ways and read far too many links that my tired old eyes deserve to be punished with in any one session i can say that i hardly managed at all to find anything that Helen Clark was quoted as saying about Working for Families vis a vis Jobs and Beneficiaries,
This appears to be the clearest link and it is obscure, the publication is actually a news site for would be immigrants and appears to be aimed at Australians a Britons, but, a link it is,
http://www.chineselessons.docutoasters.com>…>New Zealand outlook>2004
The message according to Prime Minister Helen Clark is: ”You will be better off when you go to work”
Micheal Cullen is quoted in the same article ”Working for Families has 3 aims”, one of the quoted aims, ”To reduce barriers to work”, unquote,
As many of my links have the stinks, Google= Consyl publishing & Publicity, the atrticle should be on the page…
Your link doesn’t work bad12. I think you’re probably looking for something like this Ministry of Social Development (RTF) document, which quotes Helen Clark saying:
She made that statement in June 2008 specifically concerning WFF and at a time when the Child Poverty Action Group was taking the matter through the courts. Here’s CPAG’s comment on the judgment (PDF).
Lolz thanks Jackal, Aaaaah it’s a PLOT, even the Google i gave now doesn’t take you there,
One more try and then i am giving up, apologizing and withdrawing the comment and off to spend the night sobbing into my little lace hanky,
http://www.chineselessons.docutoaster.com/newzealandoutlook/nzfeb045.HTML
If that gets you there, click on 2004(in blue) and scroll down page to July,
”Big winners in budget are working families”,
Lolz the longer i look the ‘crankier’ my PC gets but it is there and it does quote Helen Clark on working for Families, ”You will be better of when you go to work”,
Also Micheal Cullen,” Working for families had three aims said Finance Minister Micheal Cullen, to reduce barriers to work, ensure people are better off working, and, ensure families are able to give their children the best start to life”,
i certainly didn’t here or see that particular quote from Helen Clark originally from this particular site but it’s the only one i can find that directly echos what i know she said…
Hey Bad. This is the best I could come up with on a quick trawl. However my memory is that at some time, probably in an interview situation, Clark said something more pithy and very similar to the words you paraphrased above at 9.56am:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/469911/Families-policy-flawed-and-discriminatory
“Speaking ahead of the hearing this morning, Prime Minister Helen Clark said today the in-work payment was there to ensure people were better off when they went to work.
“The best form of social security is a job,” she said on TV One’s Breakfast programme.
“We don’t want to do anything that would stop the movement of beneficiaries back to work.”
Lolz whoever you is your funny, but, probably about to make me a rather large TARGET,
Don’t let that stop you tho,and thanks for the link, Lolz i am pretty sure i heard it the way i have said it, probably on RadioNZ National but mods kindly asked for a link and the one i have provided is the closest to the quote i can come,
As my ‘new pa’ i won’t give you the task of trawling through RadioNZ’s archives trying to find where Helen Clark is quoted saying it, instead can you compile me a loud tape full of open laughter so i can play it continuously when David Cunliffe rids us of the current Slippery little shyster…
I would like to buy into the narrative of Cunliffe as the great redeemer
I haven’t seen that much of a “great redeemer” narrative – if you look at my post on Cunliffe yesterday & why I electorate vote him, you will see I have criticisms (of his centrism, and focus on economic growth, plus having said little on the need to restructure social security).
Cunliffe does seem to me to be the best the Labour caucus has to oppose, and hopefully dismiss, Key at the next election. He does express a strong critique of neoliberalism, but will have to see how that would carry into practice if he was PM.
I have real reservations about the current political positioning of parliamentary Labour, and will continue to party vote Green or Mana.
I’ve seen many other similar sentiments from others on TS.
+1
Yes pathetic Jonolism from a tired press hack more interested in conducting interviews with Himself and drawing wrong conclusions, if Armstrong but brains weak had an iota of journalistic integrity He would have investigated the ‘unfathomable’ so as to at least enlighten Himself instead of attempting to soil Cunliffe with His piss weak denigration,
Topping Armstong but brains weak’s effort at Jonolism in today’s Herald tho was the winner of this weeks ‘Golden Turd’ for exceptional efforts in the promotion of Jonolism Fran O’Sullivan, awarded to those in the main stream of New Zealand media who having not a grain of truth simply make s**t up and smear these lies across the pages of their shoddy rags,
In today’s Herald O’Sullivan not only lies about the head of the Council of Trade Unions Helen Kelly, She, O’Sullivan openly slanders Her,
O’Sullivan’s claim that Helen Kelly has said that the Union Affiliates to the Labour Party will block vote in the upcoming leadership contest is simply wrong in fact, Helen Kelly has said that the union Affiliates will vote for the person they see as the best Labour leader in terms of ousting the current National Government,
Wrong in fact twice in one paragraph, O’Sullivan either has little knowledge of the Union Affiliates She has chosen to write of, or has simply chosen to print LIES,
It is virtually impossible for the Union Affiliates to Block Vote for the next leader of the Labour Party as some of the Affiliated Unions will have ALL their members having a vote each and some of the Affiliated Unions will have only delegates casting a vote after consulting the shop floor,
A well deserved ‘Golden Turd’ award goes to the Heralds Fran O’Sullivan who, the more she writes on any particular subject, the more inclined to stray into the realms of out-right bulls**t She becomes….
I hope you’ll point that out in the comments section under Fran O’Sullivan’s piece.
From Armstrong on Robertson: ” Gay, but not overtly so. Comes across instead as a Good Kiwi Bloke who likes a beer or two while chewing the political fat.”
Yes, Armstrong’s attempt to not critique Robertson and support him, exposes Armstrong’s biases – showing exactly where he gets his views on the Labour leadership – down the pub. It’s all about the relationship between such journos and the Labour Caucus right wing.
Agreed. An (un) subtle hint by Armstrong – and he’s back to his usual “Key is God” self near the end of his ‘opinion’ diatribe.
Spot on, Karol.
On mobile so no reply button, but at Vto I disagree entirely with the sentiment that only the right holds bigots. There aare large tracts of the religious Pacifica community which are deeply bigoted. From memory labours mp for mangere was stating as much last year. Plenty of bigots on both sides of the political devide im afraid….
There’s no question more bigots support political parties like National, Act and NZ First. Although some homophobes who support Labour might no longer with Grant Robertson leading, the LGBT community would likely identify and therefore support him. There are likely just as many swing voters in both camps (excuse the pun). Therefore I think there will be no more or less support for Robertson. His sexuality is quite simply not an issue and I’m somewhat disappointed the MSM is trying to make it one.
The other huge counter against Robertson is that he’s not had any actual experience in Government – around the Cabinet table. He’s only been in Parliament a few years – in Oppposition.
Labour cannot afford to experiment – as Jenny Michie has said – we need someone who knows the machinations around Govt departments, who’s had experience of how the top civil servants operate with Ministers trying to put through different policies., and who can really “foot” it with Key.
Cunliffe has all of that., Robertson is only halfway there.
For a caucus which chose to put in a leader with even less Parliamentary experience, your logic is probably a bridge too far.
Something to give you a buzz on a beautiful Saturday morning!
Well, if you have a warped sense of humour like mine.
Shearer’s resignation sung in opera style – found the link on Public Address.
http://t.co/rc77OzUxQc
Thanks for the link!
I look forward to the completed Opera; “Mango skin man on the road to obscurity” might be a good title.
Whoever takes the helm at labour I wish them the best – this is a chance to pull the team together to fight the horrible gnats and their destructive agenda – it can be done, it must be done.
History in the making: a summary of the legislative and administrative actions of New Zealand’s first Labour government during its first year of office
I got my hands on this interesting booklet recently and I thought I’d scan and upload it. It’s impressive how much they accomplished in just one year.
WTF is this Coatsworth woman (who ever she is) saying that there can be no deals ie Cunliffe/Robertson, saying there HAS to be a US (What is the fascination with the fucking yanks?) style primary. (this has now put me off Labour politics for good) I thought we were going to have a clean out and new leaders put in.
But no it’s still the same ol’ same ol’ from those behind the scenes.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9081515/Contenders-face-US-style-primary
Holy frak, that’s not the intended important bit, its the “50,000 voting papers” which is the stunner!
By the way David H, why are you complaining about behind the scenes Labour stage direction when you are a supporter of getting a backroom deal cut and leaving members’ voices out of it completely?
David, Moira is the party President. She didn’t say the things you attribute to her and you clearly misunderstand what she actually did say; which is that the members want a say. It’s your proposition that is ‘same ol same ol’ and that is not the membership preference, by a long shot.
A series of well attended debates around the country will also have the positive effect of lifting Labour’s profile, energising the activist base and re-aquainting caucus with the people who put them in their jobs.
CV: the 50k includes union members. However, it’s up to each individual affililiate whether they ballot all members. Some will make the decision at delegate or executive level.
It also puts media attention on Labour for the next four weeks, where they can articulate their vision and lead the national conversation, rather than be reactive to the government’s policies.
It really is the start of the campaign for 2014.
My first impression was for a Cunliffe/Robertson ‘ticket’ to be put together as this to me would ‘seem’ the best leadership team for Labour both in terms of having the left/right factions ‘at the top table’, Cunliffe/Robertson are the Labour Party’s top 2 performers in the House, and, in terms of electorate appeal Cunliffe/Robertson are right up there,
*if the Stuff poll is to be taken notice of, dubious at best, Jacinda Adhern seems also have a high public profile*
Having said all that, it is right for the Party membership to expect, and be highly disappointed if the question of leadership is not put to the vote, it is after-all ‘their’ Party,
This in no way would preclude Cunliffe and Robertson putting together a ‘ticket’ to contest for the leadership and nor would it preclude the winner of a contest between Cunliffe and Robertson offering the Deputy position to the loser in such a contest,
It is tho obvious that the membership and affiliates will accept nothing less that a democratic election process to decide who the next leader of Labour and next Prime Minister will be…
“in terms of electorate appeal Cunliffe/Robertson are right up there,”
How does Robertson have electorate appeal? Various polls show most NZers have never heard of him. He came third in his own electorate.
Pray tell how did the Member for Wellington Central become the Member if He only came ‘third’ in his electorate,
If ‘various poll’s were to be the measure by which we are to judge this question of electoral appeal the Stuff Poll yesterday had Jacinda Adhern polling ahead of David Cunliffe as most favored Labour Party leader…
Sorry, my mistake, repeating what others have said.
He won the electorate, but the party vote for labour in that electorate was behind National by ~5000 votes, and behind Greens by ~450.
L, all good, i have also seen that elsewhere on the Standard used as a Robertson putdown, it’s hard to slap Grant round for that Party vote in Wellington,
Wellington is a hot bed of Green activism and IF there is to be a Green electorate MP in the upcoming or 2017 elections i would suggest it will be one of the Wellington Labour seats that falls,
Annette King’s numbers both in the electorate and party votes took a hammering last time round as well and much of that is found in the Green numbers out here in the electorate,
That’s MMP i guess, Labour as i have seen some on here comment cannot retreat to the belief that the Green’s are cannibalizing ‘their votes’ as it’s now a free-for-all where we are free to attempt to build the best coalition of the left possible…
Annette’s electorate vote remained very strong, with a 9000 majority. The party vote did horribly in Rongotai however, well under the NZ average for Labour.
Most of the party vote bleed went straight to the Greens (+7.2% on 2008)
While there is something to be said for having Ardern as a deputy during the electioneering phase, I just can’t see her being the low profile grafter doing the hard yards as a deputy leader. The extra votes may win the election for Labour sure, but in that case where margins are so thin, the Greens are going to be edgy cause if they go into coalition they will be really worried about the inevitable blowback coalition means for the lesser party and if they don’t Labour’s deputy leader will also be deputy PM.
In both cases the deputy leader must be a heads down bum sort of person who is happy to let the PM take the limelight while they look after the nuts & bolts.
If that sounds like a job that Ardern could happily fill, then fine, she should be deputy, but if you believe as I do that she would struggle to suppress her natural character fulfilling that role, then think again, because Labour winning and cocking it up completely, making mis-steps & unable to to get anything done competently would be much worse than not winning at all since it would likely presage another long term Tory domination of Aotearoa.
It’s got to be Wall.
re ardern:..you don’t think you are inflating the power/importance/role of a deputy-leader post-election..?..(esp. in a coalition govt..?..)
..and re greens:..i’m not speaking from any insider knowledge or anything..
..but i would think the number/signifigance of ministerial-roles would mean more to the greens post-election..
..than a title for one of them…
..phillip ure..
yeah right Michael Cullen never got up to anything in the Clark govt, except of course making sure Treasury stayed away from decisions they woulda cocked up plus he left the country in the healthiest financial state for about half a century.
Having an offsider like that is essential for an effective PM because it gives the boss distance, so when things turn to custard they can make political decisions free from the attempts of public servants to capture em. Having the deputy leader double as finance/treasury person is a proven model that works with MMP coalition governments.
are you sure you aren’t first-past-the-post thinking on that..?
..this upcoming govt will be the first real m.m.p-govt in our history..(in more a govt of equals..)
..and surely much of that (acknowledged) load shouldered by the deputy under f.p.p..
..will be taken up by/shared the coalition parties’ luminaries..?
..and anyway..while she is undoubtedly skilled..(and getting better at the job..going on q-time appearances..)..i argued ardern as deputy purely on the grounds of wider-electoral-appeal than anyone else mooted for the role….
..and help in re-taking ak for labour..
..and for helping win ak central back for labour..
..aside from those considerations..i am kinda agnostic on deputies..
..just as long as cunnliffe gets the leaders’-nod..
..’cos he is the only one..at this particular point..who is up to the job at hand..
..namely to stop key..and what he and his dead-eyed/zealot compatriots are doing to nz..
..eh..?
phillip ure..
Why are people even considering Ardern as Deputy?
At 33 and having never won an electorate seat she is far less experienced or skilled than other potential Deputies.
And if something terrible happens to a Labour Prime Minister, Ardern takes over as PM?
That’s what a Deputy Leader is. Your number two in case the number one isn’t around.
Not really, except in the very short term. They’d take the placeholder reins between the death and a caucus meeting that will be called for after the death to select the new leader. They have to be selected as leader of the parliamentary caucus (because that has been their role).
With variations this is what happened in 1940 when Savage died, and in 1974 when Kirk died. That their deputies took on the role was more coincidence than anything else.
This isn’t the US, and the leaders of the party had not been selected in a vote by the public or even the members.
Now that there is a membership/affiliates vote as well, then I’d expect that much the same system continues. However rather than the shorter period to a caucus vote, it will be a longer period until all of the votes are counted. The case where it was shorter would be if there were only one candidate.
BTW: Even in the case of current prime minister, we have had the Gerry Brownlee running the country while both Key and English were out of the country. Bearing in mind the hash he is making of Christchurch, it is a damn good thing that they didn’t crash.
But what about being “Acting PM” when the Prime Minister is out of the country? I don’t see Ardern being given that responsibility with so much more experience and skill around her.
The Deputy Leader should be the person you think could do the job as Leader if the Leader isn’t there. That’s why Robertson is Deputy now, and why he will be Deputy behind Cunliffe in a few weeks.
Yes, but does an “acting PM” actually do anything that the PM wouldn’t have? Do they go and give important speeches or initiate new important policy? No. They’re simply there to hold the fort until the PM gets back. In the event of a natural disaster or other crisis, the PM would hot-foot it back from wherever they are anyway.
Probably the only thing that comes to mind an “acting PM” has ever done would be Bill English signing off to suppress that the GCSB had any involvement in Kim Dotcom while Key was off watching a baseball game, and clearly that had nothing to do with running the country.
Which is why I think that was done of the direct authorisation of Key. English has no actual role with the GCSB except what he does on Key’s behalf. The GCSB, like the military, police, and SIS if directly controlled by the “crown” and is not technically part of the government – except as far as the GG cedes authority and those organisations choose to accept it at an operational level.
Read the last Police Act for the clearest examples of that.
My fault for confusing the two roles. Leader of a parliamentary caucus =/= PM.
However it is a very limited role because the Acting PM (in all cases) is acting as a muppet for the PM. They do not get appointed to the role by the governor general and therefore do not gte given access to the powers of the crown that are given to the PM. Incidentally the English has much the same restraints.
And I have one word to say… Brownlee
(count your blessings)
Fair enough. Good chat.
But what about being âActing PMâ when the Prime Minister is out of the country? I donât see Ardern being given that responsibility with so much more experience and skill around her.
You’re assuming that Labour in government would get both the PM and Deputy PM roles. Depending on how the party vote turns out, it could very possibly be a Green co-leader (or two) in the Deputy seat.
Cunliffe/Jones. Robertson and others just don’t cut the mustard.
Andrew Little, the other two are far too divisive and factional.
If Labour wants an effective relationship with the Greens in the form of a coalition, they shouldn’t choose Andrew Little. His views on fossil fuels are completely opposite theirs, which could prove fatal in any future negotiations. Perhaps why you’re advocating for him in the first place BM?
Personally the way I see Labour going forwards is that it returns to it’s roots. that being the political voice for the trade union.
The left do not work well together it seems every one need to have their own little fiefdom, luckily with MMP you can do this and still make a mark politically on the NZ landscape.
The idea of Labour having to be a broad church is unnecessary these days, the left should consist of 3 political groups.
1 Labour – the trade unions
2. The Greens- environmentalists
3. The progressives – gay, liberal, chardonnay socialist, Cunliffe types,etc.
This whole under one umbrella approach does not work with the left and there’s no need for it in a MMP environment.
Question: Who decides who the deputy Leader will be?
The caucus.
Attention residents of the Ohariu Electorate, Be here tomorrow:
“No more Dunne deals” public meeting 2pm Sunday 25th August, Johnsonville Community Centre. Hosted by People’s Power Ohariu.
That’s all I know about it, just spotted a sign while out in the neighbourhood this morning.
Revisiting Robert Redford and Alan Pakula’s classic movie All The President’s Men forces us to ask the question: is Obama the new Nixon?
http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2013/08/nixon-obama-and-weight-of-paper.html
is Obama the new Nixon?
In terms of foreign policy and security No.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-23/the-secret-bromance-of-nixon-and-brezhnev.html
here Obama is the new bush.
In terms of domestic security Yes,but he exceeds it wanting to be the new Hoover
Totally copacetic Phil Ure.
Cunliffe/Ardern. Brains, heart, safety, record, youth, geography, gender, sex appeal. The sewer rats will be sweating with terror.
Robertson who?
no brainer….eh….Indeed.
As for the Hels quote, who cares. Look no further than the sickening abolition of the Special Benefit: no need, no explanation, massive hammer to the most vulnerable.
Like the roof diddler cruelty, last last straw, no excuse, clean slate now or die.
ak@18 – apropos your penultimate paragraph. This is the predictable result when peoples’ humanity is attacked so callously.
The facile disgustingly blind response is to say – “Ooh look they’re violent. They’re breaking the law…….”.
As exemplified by the words “national/crime” in the link, and these words at the foot of this Stuff article – “Next Crime Story”.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9083093/Welfare-staff-hit-abused
It is not the poor who are the criminals here. They are people at the bottom being jackbooted even further down by the loathsome Marie Anoinette Paula Bennett. She and her soldiers both within and without WINZ (which is to say a minority of WINZ people) deserve a wrathful karma.
Xstasy – I note a particular comment you made either today or yesterday – please know that I am with the first person who responded. Unreserved aroha to you.
bigots know no political ideology. did not oconnor bemoan the gaggle of gays in labour?
hardly showing a tolerance of different sexual orientations.
” Gay, but not overtly so. ” armstrong wtf
armstrong:..”..reactionary-apologist – but not overtly so..”
phillip ure..
The term Armstrong was striving for, but obviously isn’t cognisant of, is “straight-acting”.
Yet another bike term to me, L. In fact he means, actually I have nfi what he means apart from Robertson isn’t camp or effeminate.
“bike term”?
‘bike term’..
it’s something to do with those tight lycra shorts..
..whoar..!
..phillip ure..
” A proposed law change to bring lobbying of MPs out of the shadows has been rejected by a parliamentary committee out of concern that it was too broad and would have discouraged constituents from engaging with politicians. Her bill would have created a public register for lobbyists and required them to follow a code of ethics drawn up by the Auditor-General and file quarterly returns.
It would be a criminal offence for unregistered corporate lobbyists, union members, or workers with non-government organisations to lobby MPs.”
” Committee chairwoman and Labour MP Ruth Dyson said: “If you’ve got a bunch of family members who aren’t being paid to provide care to their family, they should be able to lobby you. You wouldn’t want them to go through a registration process for having their views known.”
yes ruth, families are where the problems lie…. you all just want to protect the right of access by the little people.
yea right
Good to know after the GCSB bill has passed – It was implied on “The Nation” that spying on us will lead to higher Telco costs being passed on to consumers.
Yeah we pay for the spying they do on us. Both through taxes and through increased indirect telco costs.
Also with a little help $$ from the US.
Indeed.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/23/nsa-prism-costs-tech-companies-paid
And just in-case you thought it couldn’t happen here http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2013/08/gcsb-receives-us-funding.html
I just realised I haven’t seen any of Morrissey’s strident ravings recently. Has he been banned?
Has it been keeping you awake at night La! or did you suddenly just decide to have a crack at someone you didn’t like and hadn’t heard from for a while.
The latter.
Can someone tell me, please, which unions are affiliated to the Labour Party and will therefore be able to vote for its leader?
Also, is it correct that the CTU is not affiliated to the Labour Party and has no formal connection? I want to put the facts right on Fran O’Sullivan’s comments section, not that it will make much difference to the trogs. But one must try – sigh.
EPMU…RMTU…SWFU…MWU…DWU…I think…there are probably others.
According to Wikipedia:
The Labour Party Election Guide lists these:
DWU
EPMU
MUNZ
MWU
RMTU
SFWU
With instructions on how they will each vote – in the Appendix A.
CTU = Council of Trade Unions so they probably don’t have a direct connection to Labour but some, if not all, of their member unions will.
Thank you. I’ve been back to Fran O’Sullivan’s article and saw this:
Fran O’Sullivan: An earlier version of this column misinterpreted comments by CTU president Helen Kelly as indicating unions would block-vote their 20 per cent for one candidate only.” The error is regretted.
I don’t think they’re taking anymore comments at the moment.
I was interested to know the answer anyway.
LOLZ, Fran is still wearing that ”Golden Turd” award…
While we’re spending time discussing leaders:
And NZ managers are some of the worst in the world.
BTW, that link has a horrible ad popup, probably put there by one of those incompetent managers, that you have to close before you can read the page. You don’t have to read the advert though.
Lolz, thanks for that DTB, i can now save my sensitive sensibilities from the ordeal…
Jacinda Ardern comes across as very lightweight and eager to participate in photo ops, but showing little evidence that she has done the hard work her spokesperson role needs and deserves. I have no idea what he successes are, apart from restoring a small caravan. Given the obscenity of NAct policies and the vileness and thick headedness of Paula Bennett, she should have made far more impact. My conclusion is that she probably believes in the Tory bullshit about deserving and undeserving poor and is exactly the sort of person who should not be promoted. If Cunliffe wants to step back from Friedman, as he should, he’ll need a deputy who has shown a willingness to go against the consensus. For me, that is Louisa Wall.
One other thing – shittyhands can go and fuck himself. I’ll even arrange for a sympathetic doctor to provide a viagra script for him (Could be a she, but I’m doubtful. Libertarians are more gender challenged than any group except maybe NRL props). How does a Rand/Hayek acolyte get to come here and tell people they’re morons? Anyone that believes that shit has the intellect of a three year old that’s just learned that eating dogshit upsets people and therefore does it as often as possible.
“one other thing â shittyhands can go and fuck himself. Iâll even arrange for a sympathetic doctor to provide a viagra script for him ”
I assume this is a reference to me?
Olsen – +1 to list – you can get fucked too. What a fool.
[RL: I could moderate you here and now; but in this instance I’m happy to leave you up as an object lesson.]
can you please give us another lecture on why exporting NZ jobs and deciminating Kiwi industries is such a wonderful and proper thing? We haven’t seen enough of that over the last 30 years to understand what it all means.
“can you please give us another lecture on why exporting NZ jobs and deciminating Kiwi industries is such a wonderful and proper thing? We havenât seen enough of that over the last 30 years to understand what it all means.”
It comes with WTO membership.
@srylands. Did you watch TV3 news tonight? A good article about a kiwi running a dairy farm in China….their production was 3 times higher than in NZ. You may want to do a bit more work on whether your understanding of “comparative advantage” still exists.
Why is US Homeland Security buying 1.6B rounds of ammo?
That’s 5 bullets for every man, woman and child in the USA. At the peak of the Iraq War, US forces were using roughly 6M bullets per month. This purchase order could keep a maximum Iraq War running for 25 years. At home, on US soil.
What is going on?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/
The most laughable suggestion I have read…they’re buying this many bullets because it’s ‘cheaper in bulk’.
Well obviously if it’s cheaper to buy 10,000 than 1,000 then by the time you’re buying 1.6 billion they’re all totally free. That’s logic.
Its funny but some of the other websites i go based in the states would totally agree with you of course you probably wouldn’t agree with some other their other political viewpoints…
Well, I’d agree with the viewpoint that the power of government over its citizens needs to be very carefully constrained. A true democracy needs due process and the rule of law applied fairly to everyone.
The lobbying arm of the NRA, The Institute for Legislative Action and certainly no cheerleader for Obama, looks at the actual numbers and calls bullshit on the conspiracy theories.
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2012/federal-law-enforcement-agencies-buy-ammunition.aspx
Forbes Magazine, which is not exactly a light weight publication, says that it is a 1.6B round order. The NRA accounts for just 450M rounds.