I favour Wall as Cunliffe’s deputy – looking towards the politically disengaged and low income people. However, Ardern would be a preferable compromise as Deputy over Robertson. Robertson as deputy is a move to unite the caucus. Ardern has personal appeal (largely to the middleclasses, I suspect), plus could help to unite caucus factions.
I feel less secure on the Herald poll because Cunliffe and Ardern are both Auckland-based MPs, so they’re going to have much better name recognition from Herald readers.
(On the other hand, there’s probably a lot more Labour members in Auckland than in Wellington).
I also wonder how much there’s a youth/social media skew in Ardern’s favour. But she wouldn’t be the worst candidate!
Cunliffe and Ardern would rejuvenate the party. A major reshuffle would appeal to the younger voter. From a younger person in the last few days I have heard how grand dad and grandma the Labour party have been for about a decade.
I agree. Robertson is a beltway pollie as has been amply pointed out. For this reason he will struggle to gain full traction – just like Shearer failed to gain full traction. The fact he is gay I don’t think will be a problem, except for those people would never vote to the left anyway (the right wing harbours all such bigots as is well known). For most ordinary people the fact he is gay will be non problema.
Cunliffe and Adern would make a great combo. Adern is certainly an attractive woman and this will have a positive impact. I wonder if Little would also make a great no. 2 too.
Labour needs to think hard, accurately, discard the flotsam, don’t complicate things (difficult I know for lefties), and make solid sensible obvious decisions. If Cunliffe has the running already then listen to it.
Robertson, Little, Adern and others are all still relatively young and have plenty of time left to have a crack later. Give it to Cunliffe – I don’t think he wants to stand for the VTO Party anymore anyway…
Please don’t laugh at my ignorance – I have to ask, I hear this term beltway all the time but don’t know what it means.
What I fathom from the conversations is that a beltway politician is one that is ensconced cosily inside the machinery of their party. Are they are more connected to, or committed to the internal politics of the party than the people they seek to represent? I have no idea.
The term beltway also puts me in mind of a luggage carousel at an airport.
Silly US Washington DC term, where the governmental/capitol area is surrounded by a ring road of US highways.
Less literally, it is the political centre of a nation sometimes too inward looking and insular/isolated from the people and country the inhabitants are supposed to actually represent and govern.
As CV says, “Beltway” is a US term taken from the ring road/motorway that runs around (or as part) of Washington DC, which is called the “Beltway”.
As a side issue in his excellent blog post on Public Address on the aftermath of the passing of the GCSB Bill, Jon Stephenson raises the (in)appropriateness of its use in relation to Wellington and there is quite a bit of discussion in the comments on this. But Jon’s post is well worth reading for its main topic.
Ah! Thank you CV, phillip ure and veutoviper. That does make sense, I could have looked it up but it’s more interesting and the meaning has more depth when it comes from the knowledgeable ones who comment here.
I wonder if it is this ‘beltway’ style of politics that contributes to the disengagement of people from taking an interest in politics and ultimately from voting. They naturally feel disconnected from and resentful towards a system of governance that they perceive as disinterested in them as people. Not the only factor though. Apologies again for not keeping up…….
Thanks for the link vv. I had seen that in my browsings in recent days but will now pay attention.
Yes, lovely spring morning here in Wgtn, made even more spring like by the sound of bleating lambs over the back fence, and more enjoyable by the absence of quakes.
He was leading Labour into well deserved oblivion.
This opened up the possibility of a genuine fighting left movement emerging. In fact we are starting to see the beginnings of it now, as we always do after a few years of National.
I have no problems with Robertson. He would continue Shearer’s good work of removing the Labour Party barrier to building a left movement.
Cunliffe is a worry.
There is every chance he will rebuild confidence in Labour and we will end up in yet another cycle of hope and despair that will first see the destruction of left fightback momentum as people put their trust in social democrat politicians once again, then the ineveitable betrayal as a Labour led government sides with the ruling class as usual.
(re leftys’ concerns..this was trotters’ take from the daily blog yesterday..)
“..There can be no doubt as to which of these two most strongly represents the partyâs and the unionsâ desire for Labour to execute a decisive shift to the left. Since the onset of the Global Financial Crisis in 2008-09, David Cunliffe has steadily come to the view that the social democratic and labour parties of the West can no longer realistically subscribe to a business-as-usual approach to economic and social policy. Neoliberalism-lite, or free-market capitalism minus its jagged edges, is no longer a credible working model for parties of the centre-left.
The personal confidence (some would say arrogance) required to carry off such a departure from political and economic orthodoxy has, until now, weighed heavily against Cunliffeâs leadership prospects in the minds of his caucus colleagues.
The right-wing faction of the caucus certainly exploited this diffidence to slow the advance of their most dangerous ideological opponent. In the process they were greatly assisted by Grant Robertsonâs personal leadership ambitions.
Indeed, without the roadblock erected by Robertsonâs supporters – the right-wingers would not have been able to prevent Cunliffe taking the leadership in December 2011..”
I would like to buy into the narrative of Cunliffe as the great redeemer but to do so would be a triumph of hope over experience.
The problem is every Labour Prime Minister since Norman Kirk has held out such hope and promise prior to their election.
Each one of them has played an important part in starting and cementing in the neo liberal agenda, despite promising the opposite.
Why would we believe Cunliffe is any different?
He might be genuine but history informs us this is unlikely to be the case.
We are better off putting faith in ourselves and building strong left moverments than waiting for a great redeemer.
It would be ok to do both at the same time but once in power Labour does everything it can to neutralise or absorb left social and political movements.
lefty..i hear/understand what you are saying about past dashed-hopes..
..a personal-nadir of this ilk..was watching the clark-govt do s.f.a. for the poorest/victims of ruthenasia..
..for budget after budget..for nine long years..
(and all the while crying crocodile-tears justifying the expansion of middle-class-welfare/employer-subsidies..by crying ‘how hard’ middle-class couples were finding it tough’..(struggling on incomes those poorest would view as rivers of gold..)
..but the difference from then to now..is that the neo-lib-consensus that made labour/national tweeddle-dum and tweedle-dee..has been largely smashed..
..the green party is now a different animal from the one that was not so long ago eyelid-batting/skirt-lifting at key/national..
..and the mana party growing apace..(and of course labour should stand aside in those maori seats mana stand in..do a banks/epsom on national/key..)
..i see labour now also realising the old ways are gone/discredited..
..and that a return to the original reasons for the foundation of that party prevail again..
..and perhaps more importantly..a public that is so opposed to asst-sales/spooking-laws is also open to a new way of doing things..
..and as they say..timing is all..
..so all these circumstances/current-realities come together to make me (mildly)-optimistic that this time will be different from others…
..and if as trotter claims..cunnliffe has already rejected that neo-lib paradigm..
..he would seem best placed to take that role..
..whereas what must not be forgotten about robertson..
..was his all-too-recent dog-whistle to the right/current-elite-paradigm..
..that power-reform was all the reform any incoming labour govt would undertake..(!)
..just that craven/kowtowing-outburst should discount robertson..
..(he really is tweedle-dum in waiting..)
..and would perhaps further define that definition of robertson as ‘beltway’ –
Phillip Ure, while i admire your ‘faith’ i think it is somewhat misplaced, time of course will tell whether or not David Cunliffe can form a Labour Party into one that takes up where Norm Kirk’s Labour Government ended,
Through ‘rogernomics’,(to my shame i stuffed letterboxes to help that abysmal Government get elected), and through that long 9 years of the Clark Governments i clung to ‘faith’ that sooner or later Labour would see that the neo-liberal paradigm was the path not to salvation of the majority, but the road to poverty for 10% while those above them cowered in fear that they too might end up ‘down there’,
Until that is Helen Clarke uttered these words, ”If beneficiaries want to receive Working for Families payments they can get a job”,
That was my and Labour’s parting of the ways, i have no ‘faith’ whatsoever that Labour have actually changed one iota from that attitude, i have not seen nor heard one iota in a Cunliffe speech which would lead me to the belief that Cunliffe himself has resiled from the Clarke position,
My view is that even a Cunliffe lead Labour Party will show little compassion to the homeless and the poor and that any gains for the bottom 10-20-30% of New Zealand will have to be chiseled from Labour from the smaller coalition partners,
As far as the neo-liberal social and economic paradigm being smashed, i wish it were so, BUT, the number of people losing their employment in the past 12 months alone while company profits grow would tend to suggest that business as usual is the order of the day,
Faith you may have in a rejuvenated Labour Party, us that have lost that faith have now seen that only force, the force of coalition politics that will give Labour no choice but to take up a real Labour Government program at the point where the Government of Norm Kirk came to a sad and untimely end…
[lprent: If you want to quote people, then it pays you to link to it. Apart from anything else it makes this site liable for being sued if it is untrue (as I think it is in this case).
Normally I’d just zap the suspect quote and it is likely that whoever did it would face a long and arduous ban. I’m going to leave this one up on the basis that Helen is likely to talk to me first.
However I strongly suggest that you either find a link/source or state that you cannot. ]
That quote is deeply ingrained in the memory of a lot of those who gives a shit about the poor.
Beneficiaries don’t need to produce academic proof of the real life insults and denigration they have experienced at the hands of neo liberals like Clark to make them true.
I really don’t understand this stuck in the past mentality?
You don’t need to have faith. You just need to look at some of their proposed policies. Although there is now some doubt by certain critics, Labour is likely to implement a working for families type policy for beneficiaries. They have even said that Helen Clark was wrong not to include beneficiaries from the get go.
There is no doubt however that Labour will undo some of the damage National has caused to employment laws. Workers rights will be a hot topic when it comes to Labour’s policy development. Under a Labour government, wages are likely to increase and perhaps even match or overtake inflation for once.
Labour has a number of housing policies that could easily be enhanced to mean homelessness isn’t a reality for many New Zealanders (are there any stats on this?). Building an additional 10,000 houses per year, limiting the amount of property speculation and making it easier for average Kiwi families to purchase a house are all beneficial policies for the people of Aotearoa.
Although it was David Shearer saying it, either David Cunliffe or Grant Robertson as leader will implement a review and then replace the GCSB legislation. That change will assuredly mean an end to mass wholesale surveillance on Kiwis by the GCSB and their affiliate agencies.
Labour will also adopt some of the Greens environmental policies to ensure their coalition support. All of these things will move New Zealand away from the destructive neo-liberal paradigm and towards a more equal society. But hey, if you want to wallow in the past and blame Labour for the present situation bad12, go right ahead.
I really donât understand this stuck in the past mentality?
It is not wallowing in the past to remember the same promises being made by Labour in the past.
Or to have enough political nous to see what social democrat parties are doing/have recently done in other parts of the world.
We are not talking ancient history here, many New Zealanders have experienced the real live betrayals of Lange and Clark, both of whom looked like bright shiny beacons of hope compared with National at the time.
How many times does the same thing have to happen before people understand it probably going to happen again.
Ok then Jackel seeing as you have given me the invite to wallow in Labour’s past i will,
The Lange Government improves beneficiaries living standards by adding PAYE to benefit payments, you might like to think that that only effected beneficiaries way back then, but added to Nationals later attack of direct benefit cuts this simply leaves today’s beneficiaries around $40 a week worse off in today’s terms, wallow wallow,
The Clark Government refused to make WFF a universal benefit where all children could access such payments on an equal basis, as the recipients of benefits are a huge ‘churn’ today’s beneficiaries are not likely to have been in receipt of a benefit back in 2004 that could have been bolstered by WFF but in terms of income as a comparison with the rest of society today’s beneficiaries are negative up to another $60 a week, wallow wallow,
Yes even at the 2011 election Labour’s Annette King,(i took as an act of desperation at the time), even went so far as to say that beneficiaries would be included in WFW, She, (i assume having been counselled), a couple of days later qualified that inclusion with the words ”in time”,
So, as you say Labour and i know it was a mistake to not make WFF a universal benefit for children, i hope to hear David Cunliffe after He becomes leader of the Labour Party say just that in a future speech, and i don’t know if i will be more surprised if He doesn’t than if He does…
“..Yes even at the 2011 election Labourâs Annette King,(i took as an act of desperation at the time), even went so far as to say that beneficiaries would be included in WFW, She, (i assume having been counselled), a couple of days later qualified that inclusion with the words âin timeâ..
as i recall..the ‘promise was to include them at an incremental rate that would have seen parity reached/full payment..
..by 2018..?..
..yet i guess some in labour were puzzled at the apparant indifference from those labour had ignored for so long..at this largesse..
(puzzled we/they weren’t filling the streets..sobbing in gratitude..)
..and puzzled why how those they had ignored for so long..continued to ignore them in return..
..a large part of me fears that many in labour still have not learnt that lesson..
..and will advocate/argue for minimal/incremental-increases for the poorest/most suffering..at best..
bad..i totally agree with you it is the minor coalition parties that will be dragging labour to many of those needed policies/actions..(not necessarily any 30’s labour-rebirth/eruption from within..)
..so what is needed is a labour party not averse to being taken to that well..
..and going on their records/pronouncments to date..
..i see cunnliffe as being more willing to sup..than robertson..
..(but i wd hasten to add..that i don’t think i am looking at labour/anycoalition thru rose-tinted glasses..
..and i retain enough cynicism to brace myself to go and stand in the bitter/disappointment-corner..by early 2016..)
..(btw..my voting-arc to date is labour/greens/mana..)
Until that is Helen Clarke uttered these words, âIf beneficiaries want to receive Working for Families payments they can get a jobâ..
I don’t know who this Helen Clarke was. However I can’t remember Helen Clark saying that, nor do I think that it is likely that she would have said it.
The reason for not including beneficiaries in the WFF was pretty simple. WFF was structured as a tax credit – so think about that.
Beneficiaries pay very little tax so consequently the effect of a tax credit is 5/8th of piss all. Moreover it would be a lot easier to simply directly increase the payments to beneficiaries with kids and to make the housing supplements related to number of kids. Which is what I seem to remember happened.
Actually most beneficiaries pay the same tax rate as people who work. The subsequent rulings on this matter certainly didn’t view the amount of tax beneficiaries pay as being a valid reason for them to not be included in the scheme.
And Beneficiaries have the distinction of paying the most tax if they are working part time as well. For starters we are taxed at the secondary rate amd when we hit that much vaunted target of 80 bucks a week we get hammered even harder.
“Itâs a surprise that Douglas, Prebble, Caygill et al would bring in such a regressive tax. In 1986.”
Because it is an efficient tax.
The solution to the hight EMTRs that welfare recipients face is a guaranteed minimum income of $15,000 for everyone over 18. No means test. No abatement. No WINZ nightmare work tests.
yes, but of course a tax can be highly regressive AND efficient at the same time. Where again, this is another instance of the term “efficient” to do with caning the poorest.
As for your minimum guaranteed income idea, great idea, but its still a pipe dream, whereas the regressiveness of GST is very here and now.
“yes, but of course a tax can be highly regressive AND efficient at the same time. Where again, this is another instance of the term âefficientâ to do with caning the poorest.”
Oh fuck off Viper you moron. How is that basement flat?
If a tax is not efficient it won’t raise revenue without crimping growth.
We have one of the lowest GST rates in the world. Oh Brunei doesn’t have a GST. Doesn’t have a welfare system either.
Gosh LPrent i fall about in absolute horror at having mis-spelt a name, can i please be forgiven,(it’s not like you have 100% perfection or do you),
i well remember Clark saying exactly that or words to that effect, and have just spent the last hour trying to find a link to this which so far has not been successful, and will happily withdraw the comment i made above should i not be able to find a link,
Yes exactly if you want to specifically exclude the children of beneficiaries from gaining access to more money then you structure a benefit in such a way that those children cannot access it,(if children with parents earning $60,000 a year ‘needed’ this tax credit then the children of beneficiaries needed it a hell of a lot more, obviously that’s ‘only’ my opinion and please feel free to tell us all your opinion on that question),
”Beneficiaries pay very little tax” now that i would suggest is a ‘Tui Statement’, on one level you are correct, beneficiaries pay little tax because beneficiaries get paid sod all,
i don’t know what your income is Lprent, but consider your fixed costs and if you have ANY disposable income after that where it is your choice how you spend such disposable income or if you spend it at all,
As a % of income beneficiaries pay at least 27% of their total income on tax, both income and GST, if using tobacco products and/or petrol products that taxation rises dramatically to 27-35% of income, not much tax in dollar terms that may be, but as a % of income they are highly taxed,
”Housing supplements related to the number of kids” you remember that happening seems to me to be in the realm of me remembering Helen Clark telling beneficiaries that if they wanted Working for Families payments they should get a job,
Bet you will have as much trouble finding a link to that as i am to the Clark quote…
“..I donât know who this Helen Clarke was. However I canât remember Helen Clark saying that, nor do I think that it is likely that she would have said it. ..”
(if she didn’t utter those specific words..this is what she did..)
“..The reason for not including beneficiaries in the WFF was pretty simple. WFF was structured as a tax credit â so think about that…”
(um..!..sorry..!..what exactly should one think about that..?..
..and how does that defend/excuse in any way the thesis of the clark labour govts’ nine year record of studious ignoring of the needs of the poorest..?..)
“..Beneficiaries pay very little tax..”
(as others have noted..benificiaries pay an extra 15% tax on 100% of their incomes..(g.s.t..)..
..this n top of the p.a.y.e. tax already extracted/deducted from that pittance..
..not to mention benificiaries having the highest claw-back taxes of any group..85% on any income over $80..(that one shut up a rightwing friend of mine..)
“.. Moreover it would be a lot easier to simply directly increase the payments to beneficiaries with kids – and to make the housing supplements related to number of kids. Which is what I seem to remember happened..”
..as one who lived through it..what you mention as moves undertaken by labour..was directing a garden hose at a holocaust..
..and did diddly-squat to undo in any way what had been wrought by richardson/shipley et al..
..and anyway..whither the childless unemployed/sick..?
..during those nine years..
..it is the hallmark of that clark government..and the biggest stain on their record..
..that they not only ignored/stigmatised the poor themselves..for those nine long years..
..but in doing so they also prepared the ground so well for the likes of bennett..eh..?..to launch the current/ongoing pogrom/war on the poor..
..but coming back to the here and now..surely any hope for a real ‘new’ labour party to be accepted (and perhaps more importantly) believed – by the electorate/those they ignored for so long/the current non-voters..?
..there has to be a coherent renunciation of the neo-lib that came before…surely..?..and promises to repair..?
..much as david milliband has done in britain in the last 24 hrs..where he..in his arguments/promises of a living-wage from any incoming labour govt in britain..for all..
(are you listening..?..nz labour..?..a ‘living-wage..?..’for all’..(the formula to end/do away with the blight of poverty in nz one fell swoop..).
…milliband has apologised for the labour that came before..and has promised to to make amends..
“..Answering critics who said he needed to admit that the Labour government made mistakes â Miliband said its economic policies had been lop-sided â and it had got it wrong.
âWe have to change our economyâ he said.
âWe were going down the up escalator –
– putting money into tax credits â but building a low-wage economy.â
Labour should back demands for a national living wage that paid more than the minimum wage â he said.
âItâs a priority for us.
Itâs important because frankly itâs terrible that one of the richest countries in the world hasnât just a huge child poverty problem –
– but a growing child poverty problem –
– including for people who are in work.â
(once again..are you listening..?..nz labour..?..)
..it is the hallmark of that clark government..and the biggest stain on their record..
I have to disagree there. This issue barely rated a mention in the mainstream media when it was occurring. There was certainly no real analysis even though there was a protracted battle to try and change the decision to not include beneficiaries. Now I would struggle to find any mention of it at all even though the effects of such legislation are only just now really coming home to roost.
In many ways it is the same as National’s latest round of beneficiary bashing. There is simply no information available about all those thousands of predominantly young people who are being kicked off welfare and have no other income. Paula Bennett cannot even answer questions relating to the exact numbers involved…she just giggles instead FFS! We can only guess at how detrimental these policies will be on society.
Therefore the issue of Labour not implementing a WFF type policy for beneficiaries barely rates as a stain on the last Labour government…except for those who understand politics and go looking for information that is. However there is no doubt that if Labour could afford to subsidize businesses by paying middle class families a tax incentive for their low wages, they assuredly could have done more to alleviate the terrible rate of severe poverty in New Zealand. Let’s hope they have learnt from their mistakes.
WFF was structured as a tax credit â so think about that.
That’s a wee bit disingenuous, lprent. Working for Families wasn’t some bright-eyed all-loving scheme to help poor families which “just happened” to be limited by being structured as a tax cut. It was deliberately denied to beneficiary families in order to “incentivise” them into work.
It’s basically the single most abhorrent example of how the Labour Party’s thinking over the past decade has been about securing middle-class votes by promoting the idea of some poor people as “deserving” and others as scapegoats. Are children going to go hungry because their parents can’t find work following a global financial crisis? Who cares as long as we get re-elected!
Lolz Draco, i find comparative advantage a little too chinese for my limited intellect, funnily enough i am not trying to undermine David Cunliffe in my previous comments no matter what they appear to transmit,
David Cunliffe would seem to be the best candidate to assume the Labour leadership and become the next Prime Minister having defeated the Slippery little shyster currently masquerading in that position,
i do tho have the opinion that large sections of the Labour Party and by extension the Labour Caucus believe that the Green Party will simply enable any old government as a lapdog coalition partner much as the smaller partners in previous coalitions have, and the Green Party will have to work hard to bring about the social changes much needed in our society in effect having to chisel any gains for the lowest 30% of people in our society out of a possibly reluctant Labour,
i sat silently non-critical of the Clark government for most of it’s reign Hoping, i do not really see myself extending the benefit of that silence and Hope if a David Cunliffe Labour Government suddenly finds ‘reform’ to be too hard…
Lolz Draco, i find comparative advantage a little too chinese for my limited intellect, funnily enough i am not trying to undermine David Cunliffe in my previous comments no matter what they appear to transmit,
Neither was I, I was pointing out that David Cunliffe still believes in neo-liberalism – the same as Helen Clark obviously did.
It’s not – which is the problem. Almost all of our political parties won’t change the underlying system which is causing poverty in our country and destroying our environment.
It was first espoused along the lines of England has a comparative advantage in producing wool and cloth, while Portugal has a comparative advantage in producing grapes and wine.
England and Portugal should stick to what they are good at doing, and then trade with each other so that each can have cloth and wine.
(The start of a philosophy of globalised trade)
Comparative advantage is meaningless today because most goods traded do not rely on natural environmental and climactic conditions. You can build an iPad or a Ford Territory just as well in China as you can in the USA, for instance.
“Comparative advantage is meaningless today because most goods traded do not rely on natural environmental and climactic conditions. You can build an iPad or a Ford Territory just as well in China as you can in the USA, for instance.”
In addition, the massive growth of the financial economy means that the old theories of comparative advantage are largely bunk now. You can situate servers, trading desks and fibre optic cables most places in the world very easily, for instance. Financial centres and corporate ownership don’t have to be anywhere near where the raw materials, workers, or factories actually are.
Bottom line – “comparative advantage” theories are largely irrelevant.
And since the internet revolution, theories of comparative advantage have decreased in relevance even further.
The next multi-billion dollar Yahoo! or Google! could just as easily come out of Mumbai, Beijing, Perth, Auckland or Moscow.
Its well over time that economics updates many of its basic tenets, but given the fundamentalist nature of the discipline and its acolytes, it seems sadly unlikely.
It’s all a load of bollocks though as the benefits of comparative advantage are so tiny that interest rates above 0% turn the benefits of trade negative. Also, Absolute advantage, which is what C.V. first identifies and has a spat with srylands over, will always trump comparative advantage as well.
The problem then becomes that no country has any advantage over any other country in manufactured goods as all factories produced today are as efficient as all other factories – they’re designed that way. The fact that all factories are as efficient as all others also removes economies of scale from the equation – bigger factories no longer have the productivity advantage that they did in the 19th century.
The difference we see in prices are artificial and not a result of improved efficiencies. What all this means is that all countries could produce everything they require in their own borders cheaper than they could get anything through trade.
That leaves food but even there we don’t have any advantages. Kiwifruit can, and are, grown elsewhere. So are cows and, in fact, pretty much everything else we produce here. That’s why we, every now and then, get a few people who understand this complaining that China is importing our cows and know-how and they’re right. As soon as China does get those things our dairy industry is history as China happen to be a lot closer to our main market for such things – China.
Oh good, we can go back to growing our own food then.
Thanks CV and DtB for explaining.
The original comment about Cunliffe not resiling from Clark’s position, hence his belief in comparative advantage, was that re neoliberalism? (I originally read it as not resiling from the WFF position).
Right wasn’t that a f**king arduous little task, having asked the question of Google in a zillion different ways and read far too many links that my tired old eyes deserve to be punished with in any one session i can say that i hardly managed at all to find anything that Helen Clark was quoted as saying about Working for Families vis a vis Jobs and Beneficiaries,
This appears to be the clearest link and it is obscure, the publication is actually a news site for would be immigrants and appears to be aimed at Australians a Britons, but, a link it is,
Your link doesn’t work bad12. I think you’re probably looking for something like this Ministry of Social Development (RTF) document, which quotes Helen Clark saying:
The best form of social security is a job.
She made that statement in June 2008 specifically concerning WFF and at a time when the Child Poverty Action Group was taking the matter through the courts. Here’s CPAG’s comment on the judgment (PDF).
If that gets you there, click on 2004(in blue) and scroll down page to July,
”Big winners in budget are working families”,
Lolz the longer i look the ‘crankier’ my PC gets but it is there and it does quote Helen Clark on working for Families, ”You will be better of when you go to work”,
Also Micheal Cullen,” Working for families had three aims said Finance Minister Micheal Cullen, to reduce barriers to work, ensure people are better off working, and, ensure families are able to give their children the best start to life”,
i certainly didn’t here or see that particular quote from Helen Clark originally from this particular site but it’s the only one i can find that directly echos what i know she said…
Hey Bad. This is the best I could come up with on a quick trawl. However my memory is that at some time, probably in an interview situation, Clark said something more pithy and very similar to the words you paraphrased above at 9.56am:
“Speaking ahead of the hearing this morning, Prime Minister Helen Clark said today the in-work payment was there to ensure people were better off when they went to work.
“The best form of social security is a job,” she said on TV One’s Breakfast programme.
“We don’t want to do anything that would stop the movement of beneficiaries back to work.”
Lolz whoever you is your funny, but, probably about to make me a rather large TARGET,
Don’t let that stop you tho,and thanks for the link, Lolz i am pretty sure i heard it the way i have said it, probably on RadioNZ National but mods kindly asked for a link and the one i have provided is the closest to the quote i can come,
As my ‘new pa’ i won’t give you the task of trawling through RadioNZ’s archives trying to find where Helen Clark is quoted saying it, instead can you compile me a loud tape full of open laughter so i can play it continuously when David Cunliffe rids us of the current Slippery little shyster…
I would like to buy into the narrative of Cunliffe as the great redeemer
I haven’t seen that much of a “great redeemer” narrative – if you look at my post on Cunliffe yesterday & why I electorate vote him, you will see I have criticisms (of his centrism, and focus on economic growth, plus having said little on the need to restructure social security).
Cunliffe does seem to me to be the best the Labour caucus has to oppose, and hopefully dismiss, Key at the next election. He does express a strong critique of neoliberalism, but will have to see how that would carry into practice if he was PM.
I have real reservations about the current political positioning of parliamentary Labour, and will continue to party vote Green or Mana.
I’ve seen many other similar sentiments from others on TS.
Yes pathetic Jonolism from a tired press hack more interested in conducting interviews with Himself and drawing wrong conclusions, if Armstrong but brains weak had an iota of journalistic integrity He would have investigated the ‘unfathomable’ so as to at least enlighten Himself instead of attempting to soil Cunliffe with His piss weak denigration,
Topping Armstong but brains weak’s effort at Jonolism in today’s Herald tho was the winner of this weeks ‘Golden Turd’ for exceptional efforts in the promotion of Jonolism Fran O’Sullivan, awarded to those in the main stream of New Zealand media who having not a grain of truth simply make s**t up and smear these lies across the pages of their shoddy rags,
In today’s Herald O’Sullivan not only lies about the head of the Council of Trade Unions Helen Kelly, She, O’Sullivan openly slanders Her,
O’Sullivan’s claim that Helen Kelly has said that the Union Affiliates to the Labour Party will block vote in the upcoming leadership contest is simply wrong in fact, Helen Kelly has said that the union Affiliates will vote for the person they see as the best Labour leader in terms of ousting the current National Government,
Wrong in fact twice in one paragraph, O’Sullivan either has little knowledge of the Union Affiliates She has chosen to write of, or has simply chosen to print LIES,
It is virtually impossible for the Union Affiliates to Block Vote for the next leader of the Labour Party as some of the Affiliated Unions will have ALL their members having a vote each and some of the Affiliated Unions will have only delegates casting a vote after consulting the shop floor,
A well deserved ‘Golden Turd’ award goes to the Heralds Fran O’Sullivan who, the more she writes on any particular subject, the more inclined to stray into the realms of out-right bulls**t She becomes….
From Armstrong on Robertson: ” Gay, but not overtly so. Comes across instead as a Good Kiwi Bloke who likes a beer or two while chewing the political fat.”
Yes, Armstrong’s attempt to not critique Robertson and support him, exposes Armstrong’s biases – showing exactly where he gets his views on the Labour leadership – down the pub. It’s all about the relationship between such journos and the Labour Caucus right wing.
On mobile so no reply button, but at Vto I disagree entirely with the sentiment that only the right holds bigots. There aare large tracts of the religious Pacifica community which are deeply bigoted. From memory labours mp for mangere was stating as much last year. Plenty of bigots on both sides of the political devide im afraid….
There’s no question more bigots support political parties like National, Act and NZ First. Although some homophobes who support Labour might no longer with Grant Robertson leading, the LGBT community would likely identify and therefore support him. There are likely just as many swing voters in both camps (excuse the pun). Therefore I think there will be no more or less support for Robertson. His sexuality is quite simply not an issue and I’m somewhat disappointed the MSM is trying to make it one.
The other huge counter against Robertson is that he’s not had any actual experience in Government – around the Cabinet table. He’s only been in Parliament a few years – in Oppposition.
Labour cannot afford to experiment – as Jenny Michie has said – we need someone who knows the machinations around Govt departments, who’s had experience of how the top civil servants operate with Ministers trying to put through different policies., and who can really “foot” it with Key.
Cunliffe has all of that., Robertson is only halfway there.
Whoever takes the helm at labour I wish them the best – this is a chance to pull the team together to fight the horrible gnats and their destructive agenda – it can be done, it must be done.
WTF is this Coatsworth woman (who ever she is) saying that there can be no deals ie Cunliffe/Robertson, saying there HAS to be a US (What is the fascination with the fucking yanks?) style primary. (this has now put me off Labour politics for good) I thought we were going to have a clean out and new leaders put in.
But no it’s still the same ol’ same ol’ from those behind the scenes.
Holy frak, that’s not the intended important bit, its the “50,000 voting papers” which is the stunner!
By the way David H, why are you complaining about behind the scenes Labour stage direction when you are a supporter of getting a backroom deal cut and leaving members’ voices out of it completely?
David, Moira is the party President. She didn’t say the things you attribute to her and you clearly misunderstand what she actually did say; which is that the members want a say. It’s your proposition that is ‘same ol same ol’ and that is not the membership preference, by a long shot.
A series of well attended debates around the country will also have the positive effect of lifting Labour’s profile, energising the activist base and re-aquainting caucus with the people who put them in their jobs.
CV: the 50k includes union members. However, it’s up to each individual affililiate whether they ballot all members. Some will make the decision at delegate or executive level.
It also puts media attention on Labour for the next four weeks, where they can articulate their vision and lead the national conversation, rather than be reactive to the government’s policies.
My first impression was for a Cunliffe/Robertson ‘ticket’ to be put together as this to me would ‘seem’ the best leadership team for Labour both in terms of having the left/right factions ‘at the top table’, Cunliffe/Robertson are the Labour Party’s top 2 performers in the House, and, in terms of electorate appeal Cunliffe/Robertson are right up there,
*if the Stuff poll is to be taken notice of, dubious at best, Jacinda Adhern seems also have a high public profile*
Having said all that, it is right for the Party membership to expect, and be highly disappointed if the question of leadership is not put to the vote, it is after-all ‘their’ Party,
This in no way would preclude Cunliffe and Robertson putting together a ‘ticket’ to contest for the leadership and nor would it preclude the winner of a contest between Cunliffe and Robertson offering the Deputy position to the loser in such a contest,
It is tho obvious that the membership and affiliates will accept nothing less that a democratic election process to decide who the next leader of Labour and next Prime Minister will be…
Pray tell how did the Member for Wellington Central become the Member if He only came ‘third’ in his electorate,
If ‘various poll’s were to be the measure by which we are to judge this question of electoral appeal the Stuff Poll yesterday had Jacinda Adhern polling ahead of David Cunliffe as most favored Labour Party leader…
L, all good, i have also seen that elsewhere on the Standard used as a Robertson putdown, it’s hard to slap Grant round for that Party vote in Wellington,
Wellington is a hot bed of Green activism and IF there is to be a Green electorate MP in the upcoming or 2017 elections i would suggest it will be one of the Wellington Labour seats that falls,
Annette King’s numbers both in the electorate and party votes took a hammering last time round as well and much of that is found in the Green numbers out here in the electorate,
That’s MMP i guess, Labour as i have seen some on here comment cannot retreat to the belief that the Green’s are cannibalizing ‘their votes’ as it’s now a free-for-all where we are free to attempt to build the best coalition of the left possible…
Annette’s electorate vote remained very strong, with a 9000 majority. The party vote did horribly in Rongotai however, well under the NZ average for Labour.
Most of the party vote bleed went straight to the Greens (+7.2% on 2008)
While there is something to be said for having Ardern as a deputy during the electioneering phase, I just can’t see her being the low profile grafter doing the hard yards as a deputy leader. The extra votes may win the election for Labour sure, but in that case where margins are so thin, the Greens are going to be edgy cause if they go into coalition they will be really worried about the inevitable blowback coalition means for the lesser party and if they don’t Labour’s deputy leader will also be deputy PM.
In both cases the deputy leader must be a heads down bum sort of person who is happy to let the PM take the limelight while they look after the nuts & bolts.
If that sounds like a job that Ardern could happily fill, then fine, she should be deputy, but if you believe as I do that she would struggle to suppress her natural character fulfilling that role, then think again, because Labour winning and cocking it up completely, making mis-steps & unable to to get anything done competently would be much worse than not winning at all since it would likely presage another long term Tory domination of Aotearoa.
yeah right Michael Cullen never got up to anything in the Clark govt, except of course making sure Treasury stayed away from decisions they woulda cocked up plus he left the country in the healthiest financial state for about half a century.
Having an offsider like that is essential for an effective PM because it gives the boss distance, so when things turn to custard they can make political decisions free from the attempts of public servants to capture em. Having the deputy leader double as finance/treasury person is a proven model that works with MMP coalition governments.
are you sure you aren’t first-past-the-post thinking on that..?
..this upcoming govt will be the first real m.m.p-govt in our history..(in more a govt of equals..)
..and surely much of that (acknowledged) load shouldered by the deputy under f.p.p..
..will be taken up by/shared the coalition parties’ luminaries..?
..and anyway..while she is undoubtedly skilled..(and getting better at the job..going on q-time appearances..)..i argued ardern as deputy purely on the grounds of wider-electoral-appeal than anyone else mooted for the role….
..and help in re-taking ak for labour..
..and for helping win ak central back for labour..
..aside from those considerations..i am kinda agnostic on deputies..
..just as long as cunnliffe gets the leaders’-nod..
..’cos he is the only one..at this particular point..who is up to the job at hand..
..namely to stop key..and what he and his dead-eyed/zealot compatriots are doing to nz..
Thatâs what a Deputy Leader is. Your number two in case the number one isnât around.
Not really, except in the very short term. They’d take the placeholder reins between the death and a caucus meeting that will be called for after the death to select the new leader. They have to be selected as leader of the parliamentary caucus (because that has been their role).
With variations this is what happened in 1940 when Savage died, and in 1974 when Kirk died. That their deputies took on the role was more coincidence than anything else.
This isn’t the US, and the leaders of the party had not been selected in a vote by the public or even the members.
Now that there is a membership/affiliates vote as well, then I’d expect that much the same system continues. However rather than the shorter period to a caucus vote, it will be a longer period until all of the votes are counted. The case where it was shorter would be if there were only one candidate.
BTW: Even in the case of current prime minister, we have had the Gerry Brownlee running the country while both Key and English were out of the country. Bearing in mind the hash he is making of Christchurch, it is a damn good thing that they didn’t crash.
But what about being “Acting PM” when the Prime Minister is out of the country? I don’t see Ardern being given that responsibility with so much more experience and skill around her.
The Deputy Leader should be the person you think could do the job as Leader if the Leader isn’t there. That’s why Robertson is Deputy now, and why he will be Deputy behind Cunliffe in a few weeks.
Yes, but does an “acting PM” actually do anything that the PM wouldn’t have? Do they go and give important speeches or initiate new important policy? No. They’re simply there to hold the fort until the PM gets back. In the event of a natural disaster or other crisis, the PM would hot-foot it back from wherever they are anyway.
Probably the only thing that comes to mind an “acting PM” has ever done would be Bill English signing off to suppress that the GCSB had any involvement in Kim Dotcom while Key was off watching a baseball game, and clearly that had nothing to do with running the country.
Probably the only thing that comes to mind an âacting PMâ has ever done would be Bill English signing off to suppress that the GCSB had any involvement in Kim Dotcom while Key was off watching a baseball game, and clearly that had nothing to do with running the country.
Which is why I think that was done of the direct authorisation of Key. English has no actual role with the GCSB except what he does on Key’s behalf. The GCSB, like the military, police, and SIS if directly controlled by the “crown” and is not technically part of the government – except as far as the GG cedes authority and those organisations choose to accept it at an operational level.
Read the last Police Act for the clearest examples of that.
My fault for confusing the two roles. Leader of a parliamentary caucus =/= PM.
However it is a very limited role because the Acting PM (in all cases) is acting as a muppet for the PM. They do not get appointed to the role by the governor general and therefore do not gte given access to the powers of the crown that are given to the PM. Incidentally the English has much the same restraints.
And I have one word to say… Brownlee
(count your blessings)
But what about being âActing PMâ when the Prime Minister is out of the country? I donât see Ardern being given that responsibility with so much more experience and skill around her.
You’re assuming that Labour in government would get both the PM and Deputy PM roles. Depending on how the party vote turns out, it could very possibly be a Green co-leader (or two) in the Deputy seat.
If Labour wants an effective relationship with the Greens in the form of a coalition, they shouldn’t choose Andrew Little. His views on fossil fuels are completely opposite theirs, which could prove fatal in any future negotiations. Perhaps why you’re advocating for him in the first place BM?
Personally the way I see Labour going forwards is that it returns to it’s roots. that being the political voice for the trade union.
The left do not work well together it seems every one need to have their own little fiefdom, luckily with MMP you can do this and still make a mark politically on the NZ landscape.
The idea of Labour having to be a broad church is unnecessary these days, the left should consist of 3 political groups.
1 Labour – the trade unions
2. The Greens- environmentalists
3. The progressives – gay, liberal, chardonnay socialist, Cunliffe types,etc.
This whole under one umbrella approach does not work with the left and there’s no need for it in a MMP environment.
Cunliffe/Ardern. Brains, heart, safety, record, youth, geography, gender, sex appeal. The sewer rats will be sweating with terror.
Robertson who?
no brainer….eh….Indeed.
As for the Hels quote, who cares. Look no further than the sickening abolition of the Special Benefit: no need, no explanation, massive hammer to the most vulnerable.
Like the roof diddler cruelty, last last straw, no excuse, clean slate now or die.
It is not the poor who are the criminals here. They are people at the bottom being jackbooted even further down by the loathsome Marie Anoinette Paula Bennett. She and her soldiers both within and without WINZ (which is to say a minority of WINZ people) deserve a wrathful karma.
Xstasy – I note a particular comment you made either today or yesterday – please know that I am with the first person who responded. Unreserved aroha to you.
” A proposed law change to bring lobbying of MPs out of the shadows has been rejected by a parliamentary committee out of concern that it was too broad and would have discouraged constituents from engaging with politicians. Her bill would have created a public register for lobbyists and required them to follow a code of ethics drawn up by the Auditor-General and file quarterly returns.
It would be a criminal offence for unregistered corporate lobbyists, union members, or workers with non-government organisations to lobby MPs.”
” Committee chairwoman and Labour MP Ruth Dyson said: “If you’ve got a bunch of family members who aren’t being paid to provide care to their family, they should be able to lobby you. You wouldn’t want them to go through a registration process for having their views known.”
yes ruth, families are where the problems lie…. you all just want to protect the right of access by the little people.
Good to know after the GCSB bill has passed – It was implied on “The Nation” that spying on us will lead to higher Telco costs being passed on to consumers.
Has it been keeping you awake at night La! or did you suddenly just decide to have a crack at someone you didn’t like and hadn’t heard from for a while.
Can someone tell me, please, which unions are affiliated to the Labour Party and will therefore be able to vote for its leader?
Also, is it correct that the CTU is not affiliated to the Labour Party and has no formal connection? I want to put the facts right on Fran O’Sullivan’s comments section, not that it will make much difference to the trogs. But one must try – sigh.
The Labour Party was founded as the political arm of the trade union movement. While the formal ties between unions and the party have dwindled, there are still five unions that are directly affiliated to the party and pay affiliation fees. These unions are:
Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union (EPMU)
Service & Food Workers Union (SFWU)
Maritime Union of New Zealand (MUNZ)
New Zealand Dairy Workers Union (NZDWU)
New Zealand Meat & Related Trades Workers Union (NZMWU)
In addition, the president of the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions continues to speak at the Labour Party Annual Conference.[15]
Labor unions were born in violence a century ago and are once again the subject of acrimonious debate. At stake is a worker’s right to bargain collectively and the very existence of an American middle class.
This trailer is a first step in the exploration of why unions, seemingly needed as much as ever, have little relevance for today’s workers…
Thank you. I’ve been back to Fran O’Sullivan’s article and saw this:
Fran O’Sullivan: An earlier version of this column misinterpreted comments by CTU president Helen Kelly as indicating unions would block-vote their 20 per cent for one candidate only.” The error is regretted.
I don’t think they’re taking anymore comments at the moment.
The paradoxical implication is that the same psychological characteristics that enable male managers to rise to the top of the corporate or political ladder are actually responsible for their downfall. In other words, what it takes to get the job is not just different from, but also the reverse of, what it takes to do the job well. As a result, too many incompetent people are promoted to management jobs, and promoted over more competent people.
Unsurprisingly, the mythical image of a “leader” embodies many of the characteristics commonly found in personality disorders, such as narcissism (Steve Jobs or Vladimir Putin), psychopathy (fill in the name of your favorite despot here), histrionic (Richard Branson or Steve Ballmer) or Machiavellian (nearly any federal-level politician) personalities. The sad thing is not that these mythical figures are unrepresentative of the average manager, but that the average manager will fail precisely for having these characteristics.
And NZ managers are some of the worst in the world.
BTW, that link has a horrible ad popup, probably put there by one of those incompetent managers, that you have to close before you can read the page. You don’t have to read the advert though.
Jacinda Ardern comes across as very lightweight and eager to participate in photo ops, but showing little evidence that she has done the hard work her spokesperson role needs and deserves. I have no idea what he successes are, apart from restoring a small caravan. Given the obscenity of NAct policies and the vileness and thick headedness of Paula Bennett, she should have made far more impact. My conclusion is that she probably believes in the Tory bullshit about deserving and undeserving poor and is exactly the sort of person who should not be promoted. If Cunliffe wants to step back from Friedman, as he should, he’ll need a deputy who has shown a willingness to go against the consensus. For me, that is Louisa Wall.
One other thing – shittyhands can go and fuck himself. I’ll even arrange for a sympathetic doctor to provide a viagra script for him (Could be a she, but I’m doubtful. Libertarians are more gender challenged than any group except maybe NRL props). How does a Rand/Hayek acolyte get to come here and tell people they’re morons? Anyone that believes that shit has the intellect of a three year old that’s just learned that eating dogshit upsets people and therefore does it as often as possible.
can you please give us another lecture on why exporting NZ jobs and deciminating Kiwi industries is such a wonderful and proper thing? We haven’t seen enough of that over the last 30 years to understand what it all means.
“can you please give us another lecture on why exporting NZ jobs and deciminating Kiwi industries is such a wonderful and proper thing? We havenât seen enough of that over the last 30 years to understand what it all means.”
@srylands. Did you watch TV3 news tonight? A good article about a kiwi running a dairy farm in China….their production was 3 times higher than in NZ. You may want to do a bit more work on whether your understanding of “comparative advantage” still exists.
Why is US Homeland Security buying 1.6B rounds of ammo?
That’s 5 bullets for every man, woman and child in the USA. At the peak of the Iraq War, US forces were using roughly 6M bullets per month. This purchase order could keep a maximum Iraq War running for 25 years. At home, on US soil.
Its funny but some of the other websites i go based in the states would totally agree with you of course you probably wouldn’t agree with some other their other political viewpoints…
Well, I’d agree with the viewpoint that the power of government over its citizens needs to be very carefully constrained. A true democracy needs due process and the rule of law applied fairly to everyone.
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If you are confused, check with the sunCarry a compass to help you alongYour feet are going to be on the groundYour head is there to move you aroundSo, stand in the place where you liveSongwriters: Bill Berry / Michael Mills / Michael Stipe / Peter Buck.Hot in the CityYesterday, ...
Shane Jones announced today he would be contracting out his thinking to a smarter younger person.Reclining on his chaise longue with a mouth full of oysters and Kina he told reporters:Clearly I have become a has-been, a palimpsest, an epigone, a bloviating fossil. I find myself saying such things as: ...
Warning: This post contains references to sexual assaultOn Saturday, I spent far too long editing a video on Tim Jago, the ACT Party President and criminal, who has given up his fight for name suppression after 2 years. He voluntarily gave up just in time for what will be a ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park from the Gigafact team in collaboration with members from our team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is global warming ...
Our low-investment, low-wage, migration-led and housing-market-driven political economy has delivered poorer productivity growth than the rest of the OECD, and our performance since Covid has been particularly poor. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate and poverty this ...
..Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.As far as major government announcements go, a Three Ministers Event is Big. It can signify a major policy development or something has gone Very Well, or an absolute Clusterf**k. When Three Ministers assemble ...
One of those blasts from the past. Peter Dunne – originally neoliberal Labour, then leader of various parties that sought to work with both big parties (generally National) – has taken to calling ...
Completed reads for January: I Am Legend, by Richard Matheson The Black Spider, by Jeremias Gotthelf The Spider and the Fly (poem), by Mary Howitt A Noiseless Patient Spider (poem), by Walt Whitman August Heat, by W.F. Harvey Charlotte’s Web, by E.B. White The Shrinking Man, by Richard Matheson ...
Do its Property Right Provisions Make Sense?Last week I pointed out that it is uninformed to argue that the New Zealandâs apparently poor economic performance can be traced only to poor regulations. Even were there evidence they had some impact, there are other factors. Of course, we should seek to ...
Richard Wagstaff It was incredibly jarring to hear the hubris from the Prime Minister during his recent state of the nation address. I had just spent close to a week working though the stories and thoughts shared with us by nearly 2000 working people as part of our annual Mood ...
Odd fact about the Broadcasting Standards Authority: for the last few years, they’ve only been upholding about 5% of complaints. Why? I think there’s a range of reasons. Generally responsible broadcasters. Dumb complaints. Complaints brought under the wrong standard. Greater adherence to broadcasters’ rights to freedom of expression in the ...
And I said, "Mama, mama, mama, why am I so alone"'Cause I can't go outside, I'm scared I might not make it homeWell I'm alive, I'm alive, but I'm sinking inIf there's anyone at home at your place, darlingWhy don't you invite me in?Don't try to feed me'Cause I've been ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ star is on the rise, having just added the Energy, Local Government and Revenue portfolios to his responsibilities - but there is nothing ambitious about the Government’s new climate targets. Photo: SuppliedLong stories short, the top six things in our political economy around housing, climate ...
It may have been a short week but there’s been no shortage of things that caught our attention. Here is some of the most interesting. This week in Greater Auckland On Tuesday Matt took a look at public transport ridership in 2024 On Thursday Connor asked some questions ...
The East Is Red: Journalists and commentators are referring to the sudden and disruptive arrival of DeepSeek as a second âSputnik momentâ. (Sputnik being the name given by the godless communists of the Soviet Union to the worldâs first artificial satellite which, to the consternation and dismay of the Americans, ...
Hi,Back on inauguration day we launched a ridiculous RFK Jr. “brain worms” tee on the Webworm store, and I told you I’d be throwing my profits over to Mutual Aid LA and Rainbow Youth New Zealand. Just to show I am not full of shit, here are the receipts. I ...
The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with regular and special guests, including: on the week in geopolitics, including the latest from Donald Trump over Gaza and Ukraine.Health expert and author David Galler ...
In an uncompromising paper Treasury has basically told the Government that its plan for a third medical school at Waikato University is a waste of money. Furthermore, the country cannot afford it. That advice was released this week by the Treasury under the Official Information Act. And it comes as ...
Back in November, He Pou a Rangi provided the government with formal advice on the domestic contribution to our next Paris target. Not what the target should be, but what we could realistically achieve, by domestic action alone, without resorting to offshore mitigation. Their answer was startling: depending on exactly ...
Photo by Mauricio Fanfa on UnsplashKia oraCome and join us for our weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm today.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream for our chat about the week’s news with myself , plus regular guest David Patman and ...
I don't like to spend all my time complaining about our government, so let me complain about the media first.Senior journalistic Herald person Thomas Coughlan reported that Treasury replied yeah nah, wrong bro to Luxon's claim that our benighted little country has been in recession for three years.His excitement rose ...
Back in 2022, when the government was consulting internally about proactive release of cabinet papers, the SIS opposed it. The basis of their opposition was the "mosaic effect" - people being able to piece together individual pieces of innocuous public information in a way which supposedly harms "national security" (effectively: ...
With The Stroke Of A Pen:Populism, especially right-wing populism, invests all the power of an electoral/parliamentary majority in a single political leader because it no longer trusts the bona fides of the sprawling political class among whom power is traditionally dispersed. Populism eschews traditional politics, because, among populists, traditional politics ...
I’ve spent the last week writing a fairly substantial review of a recent book (“Australia’s Pandemic Exceptionalism: How we crushed the curve but lost the race”) by a couple of Australian academic economists on Australia’s pandemic policies and experiences. For all its limitations, there isn’t anything similar in New Zealand. ...
Mr Mojo Rising: Economic growth is possible, Christopher Luxon reassures us, but only under a government that is willing to get out of the way and let those with drive and ambition get on with it.ABOUT TWELVE KILOMETRES from the farm on the North Otago coast where I grew up stands ...
You're nearly a good laughAlmost a jokerWith your head down in the pig binSaying, 'Keep on digging.'Pig stain on your fat chinWhat do you hope to findDown in the pig mine?You're nearly a laughYou're nearly a laughBut you're really a crySongwriter: Roger Waters.NZ First - Kiwi Battlers.Say what you like ...
This is a re-post from the Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler Climate denial is dead. Renewable energy denial is here. As “alternative facts” become the norm, it’s worth looking at what actual facts tell us about how renewable energy sources like solar and wind are lowering the price of electricity. As ...
SIR GEOFFREY PALMER is worried about democracy. In his Newsroom website post of 27 January 2025 he asserts that âthe future of democracy across the world now seems to be in question.â Following a year of important electoral contests across the world, culminating in Donald Trumpâs emphatic recapture of the ...
The Government hasnât stopped talking about growth since the Prime Minister made his âyesâ speech at the Auckland Chamber of Commerce last week. But so far, the measures announced would seem hardly likely to suddenly pitch New Zealand into the fast-growth East Asian league. The digital nomad announcement hardly deserved ...
It's election year for Wellington City Council and for the Regional Council. What have the progressive councillors achieved over the last couple of years. What were the blocks and failures? What's with the targeting of the mayor and city council by the Post and by central government? Why does the ...
Someone defames you anonymously online. Can you find out who it is? Maybe. There are legal avenues to seek a court order that an internet host reveal the identity of the person. One of them is called a Norwich Pharmacal order, but as Hugh Tomlinson KC points out, it only ...
The results of the 2025 Mood of the Workforce survey have been released, with working people revealing deep concerns regarding their work lives, housing, health care, and perceptions of the coalition government in Aotearoa New Zealand.Christopher Luxon has signalled that National may campaign on asset sales in the next election, ...
Te Whatu Ora Chief Executive Margie Apa leaving her job four months early is another symptom of this governmentâs failure to deliver healthcare for New Zealanders. ...
The Green Party is calling for the Prime Minister to show leadership and be unequivocal about Aotearoa New Zealandâs opposition to a proposal by the US President to remove Palestinians from Gaza. ...
The latest unemployment figures reveal that job losses are hitting MÄori and Pacific people especially hard, with MÄori unemployment reaching a staggering 9.7% for the December 2024 quarter and Pasifika unemployment reaching 10.5%. ...
Waitangi 2025: Waitangi Day must be community and not politically driven - Shane Jones Our originating document, the Treaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between MÄori and the British Crown. Initially inked by NgÄ Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. ...
Despite being confronted every day with people in genuine need being stopped from accessing emergency housing â National still wonât commit to building more public houses. ...
The Green Party says the Government is giving up on growing the countryâs public housing stock, despite overwhelming evidence that we need more affordable houses to solve the housing crisis. ...
Before any thoughts of the New Year and what lies ahead could even be contemplated, New Zealand reeled with the tragedy of Senior Sergeant Lyn Fleming losing her life. For over 38 years she had faithfully served as a front-line Police officer. Working alongside her was Senior Sergeant Adam Ramsay ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson will return to politics at Waitangi on Monday the 3rd of February where she will hold a stand up with fellow co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick. ...
Te PÄti MÄori is appalled by the government's blatant mishandling of the school lunch programme. David Seymourâs âcost-savingâ measures have left tamariki across Aotearoa with unidentifiable meals, causing distress and outrage among parents and communities alike. âWhatâs the difference between providing inedible food, and providing no food at all?â Said ...
The Government is doubling down on outdated and volatile fossil fuels, showing how shortsighted and destructive their policies are for working New Zealanders. ...
Green Party MP Steve Abel this morning joined Coromandel locals in Waihi to condemn new mining plans announced by Shane Jones in the pit of the townâs Australian-owned Gold mine. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to strengthen its just-announced 2030-2035 Nationally Determined Contribution (NDC) under the Paris Agreement and address its woeful lack of commitment to climate security. ...
Today marks a historic moment for Taranaki iwi with the passing of the Te Pire Whakatupua mĆ Te KÄhui Tupua/Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill in Parliament. "Today, we stand together as descendants of Taranaki, and our tĆ«puna, Taranaki Maunga, is now formally acknowledged by the law as a living tĆ«puna. ...
Labour is relieved to see Childrenâs Minister Karen Chhour has woken up to reality and reversed her governmentâs terrible decisions to cut funding from frontline service providers â temporarily. ...
It is the first week of David Seymourâs school lunch programme and already social media reports are circulating of revolting meals, late deliveries, and mislabelled packaging. ...
The Green Party says that with no-cause evictions returning from today, the move to allow landlords to end tenancies without reason plunges renters, and particularly families who rent, into insecurity and stress. ...
The Governmentâs move to increase speed limits substantially on dozens of stretches of rural and often undivided highways will result in more serious harm. ...
In her first announcement as Economic Growth Minister, Nicola Willis chose to loosen restrictions for digital nomads from other countries, rather than focus on everyday Kiwis. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to stand firm and work with allies to progress climate action as Donald Trump signals his intent to pull out of the Paris Climate Accords once again. ...
The Governmentâs commitment to get New Zealandâs roads back on track is delivering strong results, with around 98 per cent of potholes on state highways repaired within 24 hours of identification every month since targets were introduced, Transport Minister Chris Bishop says. âIncreasing productivity to help rebuild our economy is ...
The former Cadbury factory will be the site of the Inpatient Building for the new Dunedin Hospital and Health Minister Simeon Brown says actions have been taken to get the cost overruns under control. âToday I am giving the people of Dunedin certainty that we will build the new Dunedin ...
From today, Plunket in WhÄngarei will be offering childhood immunisations â the first of up to 27 sites nationwide, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. The investment of $1 million into the pilot, announced in October 2024, was made possible due to the Governmentâs record $16.68 billion investment in health. It ...
New Zealandâs strong commitment to the rights of disabled people has continued with the response to an important United Nations report, Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston has announced. Of the 63 concluding observations of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD), 47 will be progressed ...
Resources Minister Shane Jones has launched New Zealandâs national Minerals Strategy and Critical Minerals List, documents that lay a strategic and enduring path for the mineral sector, with the aim of doubling exports to $3 billion by 2035. Mr Jones released the documents, which present the Coalition Governmentâs transformative vision ...
Firstly I want to thank OceanaGold for hosting our event today. Your operation at Waihi is impressive. I want to acknowledge local MP Scott Simpson, local government dignitaries, community stakeholders and all of you who have gathered here today. Itâs a privilege to welcome you to the launch of the ...
Racing Minister, Winston Peters has announced the Government is preparing public consultation on GST policy proposals which would make the New Zealand racing industry more competitive. âThe racing industry makes an important economic contribution. New Zealand thoroughbreds are in demand overseas as racehorses and for breeding. The domestic thoroughbred industry ...
Business confidence remains very high and shows the economy is on track to improve, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis says. âThe latest ANZ Business Outlook survey, released yesterday, shows business confidence and expected own activity are âstill both very highâ.â The survey reports business confidence fell eight points to +54 ...
Enabling works have begun this week on an expanded radiology unit at Hawkeâs Bay Fallen Soldiersâ Memorial Hospital which will double CT scanning capacity in Hawkeâs Bay to ensure more locals can benefit from access to timely, quality healthcare, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. This investment of $29.3m in the ...
The Government has today announced New Zealandâs second international climate target under the Paris Agreement, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand will reduce emissions by 51 to 55 per cent compared to 2005 levels, by 2035. âWe have worked hard to set a target that is both ambitious ...
Nine years of negotiations between the Crown and iwi of Taranaki have concluded following Te Pire Whakatupua mĆ Te KÄhui Tupua/the Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill passing its third reading in Parliament today, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. âThis Bill addresses the historical grievances endured by the eight iwi ...
As schools start back for 2025, there will be a relentless focus on teaching the basics brilliantly so all Kiwi kids grow up with the knowledge, skills and competencies needed to grow the New Zealand of the future, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. âA world-leading education system is a key ...
Housing Minister Chris Bishop and Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson have welcomed KÄinga Oraâs decision to re-open its tender for carpets to allow wool carpet suppliers to bid. âIn 2024 KÄinga Ora issued requests for tender (RFTs) seeking bids from suppliers to carpet their properties,â Mr Bishop says. âAs part ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today visited Otahuhu College where the new school lunch programme has served up healthy lunches to students in the first days of the school year. âAs schools open in 2025, the programme will deliver nutritious meals to around 242,000 students, every school day. On ...
Minister for Children Karen Chhour has intervened in Oranga Tamarikiâs review of social service provider contracts to ensure Barnardos can continue to deliver its 0800 Whatâs Up hotline. âWhen I found out about the potential impact to this service, I asked Oranga Tamariki for an explanation. Based on the information ...
A bill to make revenue collection on imported and exported goods fairer and more effective had its first reading in Parliament, Customs Minister Casey Costello said today. âThe Customs (Levies and Other Matters) Amendment Bill modernises the way in which Customs can recover the costs of services that are needed ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Department of Internal Affairs [the Department] has achieved significant progress in completing applications for New Zealand citizenship. âDecember 2024 saw the Department complete 5,661 citizenship applications, the most for any month in 2024. This is a 54 per cent increase compared ...
Reversals to Labourâs blanket speed limit reductions begin tonight and will be in place by 1 July, says Minister of Transport Chris Bishop. âThe previous government was obsessed with slowing New Zealanders down by imposing illogical and untargeted speed limit reductions on state highways and local roads. âNational campaigned on ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis has announced Budget 2025 â the Growth Budget - will be delivered on Thursday 22 May. âThis yearâs Budget will drive forward the Governmentâs plan to grow our economy to improve the incomes of New Zealanders now and in the years ahead. âBudget 2025 will build ...
For the Government, 2025 will bring a relentless focus on unleashing the growth we need to lift incomes, strengthen local businesses and create opportunity. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today laid out the Governmentâs growth agenda in his Statement to Parliament. âJust over a year ago this Government was elected by ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour welcomes students back to school with a call to raise attendance from last year. âThe Government encourages all students to attend school every day because there is a clear connection between being present at school and setting yourself up for a bright future,â says Mr ...
The Government is relaxing visitor visa requirements to allow tourists to work remotely while visiting New Zealand, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis, Immigration Minister Erica Stanford and Tourism Minister Louise Upston say. âThe change is part of the Governmentâs plan to unlock New Zealandâs potential by shifting the country onto ...
The opening of KÄinga Oraâs development of 134 homes in Epuni, Lower Hutt will provide much-needed social housing for Hutt families, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. âIâve been a strong advocate for social housing on KÄinga Oraâs Epuni site ever since the old earthquake-prone housing was demolished in 2015. I ...
Trade and Investment Minister Todd McClay will travel to Australia today for meetings with Australian Trade Minister, Senator Don Farrell, and the Australia New Zealand Leadership Forum (ANZLF). Mr McClay recently hosted Minister Farrell in Rotorua for the annual Closer Economic Relations (CER) Trade Ministersâ meeting, where ANZLF presented on ...
A new monthly podiatry clinic has been launched today in Wairoa and will bring a much-needed service closer to home for the Wairoa community, Health Minister Simeon Brown says.âHealth New Zealand has been successful in securing a podiatrist until the end of June this year to meet the needs of ...
The Judicial Conduct Commissioner has recommended a Judicial Conduct Panel be established to inquire into and report on the alleged conduct of acting District Court Judge Ema Aitken in an incident last November, Attorney-General Judith Collins said today. âI referred the matter of Judge Aitkenâs alleged conduct during an incident ...
Students who need extra help with maths are set to benefit from a targeted acceleration programme that will give them more confidence in the classroom, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. âLast year, significant numbers of students did not meet the foundational literacy and numeracy level required to gain NCEA. To ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced three new diplomatic appointments. âOur diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealandâs interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,â Mr Peters says. âIt is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and ...
Ki te kahore he whakakitenga, ka ngaro te Iwi â without a vision, the people will perish. The Government has achieved its target to reduce the number of households in emergency housing motels by 75 per cent five years early, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. The number of households ...
The opening of Palmerston Northâs biggest social housing development will have a significant impact for whÄnau in need of safe, warm, dry housing, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. The minister visited the development today at North Street where a total of 50 two, three, and four-bedroom homes plus a ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced the new membership of the Public Advisory Committee on Disarmament and Arms Control (PACDAC), who will serve for a three-year term. âThe Committee brings together wide-ranging expertise relevant to disarmament. We have made six new appointments to the Committee and reappointed two existing members ...
Ka nui te mihi kia koutou. Kia ora, good morning, talofa, malo e lelei, bula vinaka, da jia hao, namaste, sat sri akal, assalamu alaikum. Itâs so great to be here and Iâm ready and pumped for 2025. Can I start by acknowledging: Simon Bridges â CEO of the Auckland ...
The Government has unveiled a bold new initiative to position New Zealand as a premier destination for foreign direct investment (FDI) that will create higher paying jobs and grow the economy. âInvest New Zealand will streamline the investment process and provide tailored support to foreign investors, to increase capital investment ...
Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins today announced the largest reset of the New Zealand science system in more than 30 years with reforms which will boost the economy and benefit the sector. âThe reforms will maximise the value of the $1.2 billion in government funding that goes into ...
Turbocharging New Zealandâs economic growth is the key to brighter days ahead for all Kiwis, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. In the Prime Ministerâs State of the Nation Speech in Auckland today, Christopher Luxon laid out the path to the prosperity that will affect all aspects of New Zealandersâ lives. ...
The latest set of accounts show the Government has successfully checked the runaway growth of public spending, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. âIn the previous governmentâs final five months in office, public spending was almost 10 per cent higher than for the same period the previous year. âThat is completely ...
The Governmentâs welfare reforms are delivering results with the number of people moving off benefits into work increasing year-on-year for six straight months. âThere are positive signs that our welfare reset and the return consequences for job seekers who don't fulfil their obligations to prepare for or find a job ...
Jon Kroll and Aimee McCammon have been appointed to the New Zealand Film Commission Board, Arts Minister Paul Goldsmith says. âI am delighted to appoint these two new board members who will bring a wealth of industry, governance, and commercial experience to the Film Commission. âJon Kroll has been an ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis has hailed a drop in the domestic component of inflation, saying it increases the prospect of mortgage rate reductions and a lower cost of living for Kiwi households. Stats NZ reported today that inflation was 2.2 per cent in the year to December, the second consecutive ...
Two new appointed members and one reappointed member of the Employment Relations Authority have been announced by Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden today. âIâm pleased to announce the new appointed members Helen van Druten and Matthew Piper to the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) and welcome them to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christine McCarthy, Senior Lecturer in Interior Architecture, Te Herenga Waka â Victoria University of Wellington Interior of Auckland South Men’s Prison.Getty Images Prisons are not colourful places. Typically, they are grey or some variation of a monochrome colour scheme. But increasingly, ...
FICTION1Tree of Nourishment (KÄwai 2) by Monty Soutar (David Bateman, $39.99)Interesting to note that the author of the biggest-selling New Zealand novel in Waitangi Week is MÄori (NgÄti Porou, NgÄti Awa, NgÄi Tai, and NgÄti Kahungunu).2 KÄwai: For Such a Time as This (KÄwai 1) by Monty Soutar (David ...
Remembering the renowned New Zealand writer, who died on February 5, 2025. The Stopover When the trout rise like compassion It is worth watching when the hinds come down from the hills with a new message it will be as well to listen. â Brian Turner Poet, environmentalist, sportsman, journalist, ...
Survivors can choose to have former High Court judge Paul Davison assess their individual claims to tailor payments to their personal circumstances. ...
Are we too modest when it comes to celebrating our putrid plant life?Sheâs beauty. Sheâs grace. She smells like a decaying corpse and lurks in the backrooms of Auckland Zoo, wallowing tragically in a bucket. In recent weeks an Australian corpse plant named Putricia has captured the noses and ...
Politicians from the coalition government received a frosty reception at Waitangi this year, but MÄori Development Minister Tama Potaka says the pĆwhiri that received so much attention was just one part of many events throughout the week. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jenny Allen, Postdoctoral research associate, Griffith University A humpback whale mother and calf on the New Caledonian breeding grounds.Mark Quintin All known human languages display a surprising pattern: the most frequent word in a language is twice as frequent as ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Justin Keogh, Associate Dean of Research, Faculty of Health Sciences and Medicine, Bond University Jordan Mailata is an Australian-born NFL star who plays for the Philadelphia Eagles as an offensive left tackle. This position favours very tall, heavy and strong athletes who ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nigel Tucker, Research Associate in Environment and Sustainability, James Cook University TREAT volunteers planting treesTREAT Like ferns and the tides, community conservation groups come and go. Many achieve their goal. Volunteers restore a local wetland or protect a patch of urban ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Karyn Healy, Honorary Principal Research Fellow in Psychology, The University of Queensland Rawpixel.com/Shutterstock The start of the school year means new classes, routines, after-school activities and sometimes even a new school. This can be a really exciting time for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kerrie Sadiq, Professor of Taxation, QUT Business School, and ARC Future Fellow, Queensland University of Technology The Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) released a discussion paper this week on investment tax breaks. The study looks at whether tax incentives, such as instant ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Naomi Zouwer, Visual Artist and Lecturer in Teacher Education, University of Canberra Galleries and art museums can be intimidating and alienating even for adults. Imagine it from a childâs point of view. Stern security guards in uniforms stationed the doors, bags checked, ...
The clock is ticking in the great chain chase. 2025 is an election year in New Zealand. Not the general variation, obviously, but the local form. If youâre thinking of running, nominations open in just five months, and your chances are good â about 50% across the various races; in ...
Political aspects of Waitangi week may be moved in 2026, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell for The Bulletin.To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. Celebration and on-the-ground politics For the third year in a row, I have returned from Waitangi full of food and deep regrets about not ...
Arriving at Ćnuku Marae, it was easy to see why Prime Minister Christopher Luxon chose the venue to mark Waitangi Day.Kayakers paddled around Akaroa Harbour under clear blue skies, with the marae barely a stoneâs throw from the shore.Luxonâs decision to skip traditional events at the Waitangi Treaty Grounds this ...
Thanks to increased operating costs and new fare structures, many public transport users in Auckland are now paying more for trains, buses and ferries. Shanti Mathias explains whatâs behind the changes. Schools are back around the country, but in Auckland, kids arenât the only ones to have returned to a ...
In a special Waitangi edition of Gone By Lunchtime, Ätea editor Liam RÄtana and politics reporter Lyric Waiwiri-Smith recap a politically charged few days at the Treaty Grounds. Our Waitangi 2025 coverage is possible because of the 13,000-plus Spinoff members who regularly pay to support our work. If you arenât a member ...
Analysis: Waitangi Day belongs to MÄori first, as mana motuhake and tino rangatiratanga take centre stage.Our Waitangi 2025 coverage is possible because of the 13,000-plus Spinoff members who regularly pay to support our work. If you arenât a member yet, now is the time.Walking around the treaty grounds, te reo MÄori ...
Chart 1: An unfortunate starting pointComment: Far from fighting fit, the economy limps into 2025 carrying some baggage. Two years of rolling recessions have left per capita output 4.8 percent below the 2022 peak. Thatâs as at September. The December quarter is looking flattish.A return to growth beckons this year. ...
Val Smith reckons if you knew her in her 20s, sheâd be the last woman youâd imagine taking up lawn bowls.Yet here she is, three decades later, retiring from the international game after playing an astounding 667 internationals for the BlackJacks.One of the true greats in New Zealand bowls history, ...
If you want to be a famous sport writer in New Zealand, you probably shouldn’t specialise in football.The beautiful game usually takes a back seat here … but that could all be changing.With two teams now in the Australian football league, vocal and growing crowds, and some fantastic players looking ...
Analysis: The international rules-based order has come under increasing stress and strain over the last decade and looks likely to continue on the same rocky path for the foreseeable future. In the Pacific, political tensions and competition between powerful states â the United States and its allies, and China â ...
Analysis: Growth trumps everything was the message from Prime Minister Christopher Luxonâs recent state of the nation address. His declaration came on the heels of similar announcements calling for growth at all costs from the new president of the USA and from many other world leaders. As usual news media ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The battle to contain antisemitism in Australia finds both sides of politics embracing measures theyâd otherwise abhor. Spectacularly, the government capitulated this week to include mandatory minimum sentences of between one and six years ...
i know that they are only online polls..(..with all those inherent qualifications to that result..)
..but both stuff and nz herald polls are showing cunnliffe ..closely followed by ardern ..having a clear lead..
(and robertson nowhere in sight..)
..which i would submit/repeat..that as far as electorate-appeal (i.e..winning!) is concerned..
..a cunnliffe/ardern ticket will be the one to get labour its’ best result..
phillip ure..
I favour Wall as Cunliffe’s deputy – looking towards the politically disengaged and low income people. However, Ardern would be a preferable compromise as Deputy over Robertson. Robertson as deputy is a move to unite the caucus. Ardern has personal appeal (largely to the middleclasses, I suspect), plus could help to unite caucus factions.
I feel less secure on the Herald poll because Cunliffe and Ardern are both Auckland-based MPs, so they’re going to have much better name recognition from Herald readers.
(On the other hand, there’s probably a lot more Labour members in Auckland than in Wellington).
I also wonder how much there’s a youth/social media skew in Ardern’s favour. But she wouldn’t be the worst candidate!
Cunliffe and Ardern would rejuvenate the party. A major reshuffle would appeal to the younger voter. From a younger person in the last few days I have heard how grand dad and grandma the Labour party have been for about a decade.
I agree. Robertson is a beltway pollie as has been amply pointed out. For this reason he will struggle to gain full traction – just like Shearer failed to gain full traction. The fact he is gay I don’t think will be a problem, except for those people would never vote to the left anyway (the right wing harbours all such bigots as is well known). For most ordinary people the fact he is gay will be non problema.
Cunliffe and Adern would make a great combo. Adern is certainly an attractive woman and this will have a positive impact. I wonder if Little would also make a great no. 2 too.
Labour needs to think hard, accurately, discard the flotsam, don’t complicate things (difficult I know for lefties), and make solid sensible obvious decisions. If Cunliffe has the running already then listen to it.
Robertson, Little, Adern and others are all still relatively young and have plenty of time left to have a crack later. Give it to Cunliffe – I don’t think he wants to stand for the VTO Party anymore anyway…
Please don’t laugh at my ignorance – I have to ask, I hear this term beltway all the time but don’t know what it means.
What I fathom from the conversations is that a beltway politician is one that is ensconced cosily inside the machinery of their party. Are they are more connected to, or committed to the internal politics of the party than the people they seek to represent? I have no idea.
The term beltway also puts me in mind of a luggage carousel at an airport.
Silly US Washington DC term, where the governmental/capitol area is surrounded by a ring road of US highways.
Less literally, it is the political centre of a nation sometimes too inward looking and insular/isolated from the people and country the inhabitants are supposed to actually represent and govern.
‘beltway’-definition:..
..cocktail parties @ farrars’..
phillip ure..
As CV says, “Beltway” is a US term taken from the ring road/motorway that runs around (or as part) of Washington DC, which is called the “Beltway”.
As a side issue in his excellent blog post on Public Address on the aftermath of the passing of the GCSB Bill, Jon Stephenson raises the (in)appropriateness of its use in relation to Wellington and there is quite a bit of discussion in the comments on this. But Jon’s post is well worth reading for its main topic.
http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-naked-inside-the-off-ramp/
PS – hope you are enjoying the beautiful morning here in Wellington – signs of spring indeed.
Ah! Thank you CV, phillip ure and veutoviper. That does make sense, I could have looked it up but it’s more interesting and the meaning has more depth when it comes from the knowledgeable ones who comment here.
I wonder if it is this ‘beltway’ style of politics that contributes to the disengagement of people from taking an interest in politics and ultimately from voting. They naturally feel disconnected from and resentful towards a system of governance that they perceive as disinterested in them as people. Not the only factor though. Apologies again for not keeping up…….
Thanks for the link vv. I had seen that in my browsings in recent days but will now pay attention.
Yes, lovely spring morning here in Wgtn, made even more spring like by the sound of bleating lambs over the back fence, and more enjoyable by the absence of quakes.
the right wing harbours all such bigots as is well known
… đ
i would add to the above..that the meme pushed by beltway/media etc of robertson having ‘the mongrel’ to take it to key..
..seems based in little fact/evidence..
..all i can say..from doing commentaries on q-time for some years now..
..is that i have seen little signs of this ‘mongrel’ from robertson..
..and in fact what i have seen..in those q-times – is robertson easily swatted away by the likes of ryall..(!)
..robertson..in his health-spokesperson role up againt ryall..had/showed not so much ‘mongrel’..
..as all the traction of a puppy trying to climb an oil-smeared window..
..whereas cunnliffe..(from those same q-time observations)..kinda operates like a surgeon..
..and deftly chops to pieces the arguments/fallacies of/from national..
..when cunliffe steps up to the mike..i kinda put the feet up/sit back/and enjoy the performance..he rarely fails/ed to deliver..
..and a final point i would make..is to urge those in labour who will decide this outcome..
..not to forget how important winning/taking back from national – auckland will be..
..and then ask yrslves..
..who is best positioned to do that for labour..?
..’beltway’-robertson..?.and whoever..?
…or ‘downtown’-cunnliffe..?..matched with ‘grey lynn’ ardern as his deputy-leader..?
(and in that deputy-leader role..ardern will likely claw back auckland central from national..the symbolism of which will be obvious..)
..it’s a bit of a no-brainer really..eh..?
..phillip ure..
John Armstrong: NZ Herald’s senior political journalist? – on David Cunliffe:
Great analysis that!
i looked at that one from armstrong in my early-morning sweep thru the herald..
..issued a derisory-laugh..
..and passed/moved on…
..phillip ure..
I am disappointed Shearer stood down.
He was leading Labour into well deserved oblivion.
This opened up the possibility of a genuine fighting left movement emerging. In fact we are starting to see the beginnings of it now, as we always do after a few years of National.
I have no problems with Robertson. He would continue Shearer’s good work of removing the Labour Party barrier to building a left movement.
Cunliffe is a worry.
There is every chance he will rebuild confidence in Labour and we will end up in yet another cycle of hope and despair that will first see the destruction of left fightback momentum as people put their trust in social democrat politicians once again, then the ineveitable betrayal as a Labour led government sides with the ruling class as usual.
(re leftys’ concerns..this was trotters’ take from the daily blog yesterday..)
“..There can be no doubt as to which of these two most strongly represents the partyâs and the unionsâ desire for Labour to execute a decisive shift to the left. Since the onset of the Global Financial Crisis in 2008-09, David Cunliffe has steadily come to the view that the social democratic and labour parties of the West can no longer realistically subscribe to a business-as-usual approach to economic and social policy. Neoliberalism-lite, or free-market capitalism minus its jagged edges, is no longer a credible working model for parties of the centre-left.
The personal confidence (some would say arrogance) required to carry off such a departure from political and economic orthodoxy has, until now, weighed heavily against Cunliffeâs leadership prospects in the minds of his caucus colleagues.
The right-wing faction of the caucus certainly exploited this diffidence to slow the advance of their most dangerous ideological opponent. In the process they were greatly assisted by Grant Robertsonâs personal leadership ambitions.
Indeed, without the roadblock erected by Robertsonâs supporters – the right-wingers would not have been able to prevent Cunliffe taking the leadership in December 2011..”
– See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/08/23/crossing-the-fault-line-making-the-case-for-a-cunliffe-robertson-unity-ticket/#sthash.VJnYGpiY.dpuf
phillip ure..
Phil
I would like to buy into the narrative of Cunliffe as the great redeemer but to do so would be a triumph of hope over experience.
The problem is every Labour Prime Minister since Norman Kirk has held out such hope and promise prior to their election.
Each one of them has played an important part in starting and cementing in the neo liberal agenda, despite promising the opposite.
Why would we believe Cunliffe is any different?
He might be genuine but history informs us this is unlikely to be the case.
We are better off putting faith in ourselves and building strong left moverments than waiting for a great redeemer.
It would be ok to do both at the same time but once in power Labour does everything it can to neutralise or absorb left social and political movements.
Do we really want to go through that again?
lefty..i hear/understand what you are saying about past dashed-hopes..
..a personal-nadir of this ilk..was watching the clark-govt do s.f.a. for the poorest/victims of ruthenasia..
..for budget after budget..for nine long years..
(and all the while crying crocodile-tears justifying the expansion of middle-class-welfare/employer-subsidies..by crying ‘how hard’ middle-class couples were finding it tough’..(struggling on incomes those poorest would view as rivers of gold..)
..but the difference from then to now..is that the neo-lib-consensus that made labour/national tweeddle-dum and tweedle-dee..has been largely smashed..
..the green party is now a different animal from the one that was not so long ago eyelid-batting/skirt-lifting at key/national..
..and the mana party growing apace..(and of course labour should stand aside in those maori seats mana stand in..do a banks/epsom on national/key..)
..i see labour now also realising the old ways are gone/discredited..
..and that a return to the original reasons for the foundation of that party prevail again..
..and perhaps more importantly..a public that is so opposed to asst-sales/spooking-laws is also open to a new way of doing things..
..and as they say..timing is all..
..so all these circumstances/current-realities come together to make me (mildly)-optimistic that this time will be different from others…
..and if as trotter claims..cunnliffe has already rejected that neo-lib paradigm..
..he would seem best placed to take that role..
..whereas what must not be forgotten about robertson..
..was his all-too-recent dog-whistle to the right/current-elite-paradigm..
..that power-reform was all the reform any incoming labour govt would undertake..(!)
..just that craven/kowtowing-outburst should discount robertson..
..(he really is tweedle-dum in waiting..)
..and would perhaps further define that definition of robertson as ‘beltway’ –
– that was requested further up the thread..
..phillip ure..
Phillip Ure, while i admire your ‘faith’ i think it is somewhat misplaced, time of course will tell whether or not David Cunliffe can form a Labour Party into one that takes up where Norm Kirk’s Labour Government ended,
Through ‘rogernomics’,(to my shame i stuffed letterboxes to help that abysmal Government get elected), and through that long 9 years of the Clark Governments i clung to ‘faith’ that sooner or later Labour would see that the neo-liberal paradigm was the path not to salvation of the majority, but the road to poverty for 10% while those above them cowered in fear that they too might end up ‘down there’,
Until that is Helen Clarke uttered these words, ”If beneficiaries want to receive Working for Families payments they can get a job”,
That was my and Labour’s parting of the ways, i have no ‘faith’ whatsoever that Labour have actually changed one iota from that attitude, i have not seen nor heard one iota in a Cunliffe speech which would lead me to the belief that Cunliffe himself has resiled from the Clarke position,
My view is that even a Cunliffe lead Labour Party will show little compassion to the homeless and the poor and that any gains for the bottom 10-20-30% of New Zealand will have to be chiseled from Labour from the smaller coalition partners,
As far as the neo-liberal social and economic paradigm being smashed, i wish it were so, BUT, the number of people losing their employment in the past 12 months alone while company profits grow would tend to suggest that business as usual is the order of the day,
Faith you may have in a rejuvenated Labour Party, us that have lost that faith have now seen that only force, the force of coalition politics that will give Labour no choice but to take up a real Labour Government program at the point where the Government of Norm Kirk came to a sad and untimely end…
[lprent: If you want to quote people, then it pays you to link to it. Apart from anything else it makes this site liable for being sued if it is untrue (as I think it is in this case).
Normally I’d just zap the suspect quote and it is likely that whoever did it would face a long and arduous ban. I’m going to leave this one up on the basis that Helen is likely to talk to me first.
However I strongly suggest that you either find a link/source or state that you cannot. ]
“Until that is Helen Clarke uttered these words, âIf beneficiaries want to receive Working for Families payments they can get a jobâ,”
Cite?
re ‘cite’..does it need to be cited te reo..?
..the (non)-actions of the clark govt spoke much louder/provide a better record of those words..
..eh..?
phillip ure..
Because I take against people who make shit up, Phil.
That quote is deeply ingrained in the memory of a lot of those who gives a shit about the poor.
Beneficiaries don’t need to produce academic proof of the real life insults and denigration they have experienced at the hands of neo liberals like Clark to make them true.
I really don’t understand this stuck in the past mentality?
You don’t need to have faith. You just need to look at some of their proposed policies. Although there is now some doubt by certain critics, Labour is likely to implement a working for families type policy for beneficiaries. They have even said that Helen Clark was wrong not to include beneficiaries from the get go.
There is no doubt however that Labour will undo some of the damage National has caused to employment laws. Workers rights will be a hot topic when it comes to Labour’s policy development. Under a Labour government, wages are likely to increase and perhaps even match or overtake inflation for once.
Labour has a number of housing policies that could easily be enhanced to mean homelessness isn’t a reality for many New Zealanders (are there any stats on this?). Building an additional 10,000 houses per year, limiting the amount of property speculation and making it easier for average Kiwi families to purchase a house are all beneficial policies for the people of Aotearoa.
Although it was David Shearer saying it, either David Cunliffe or Grant Robertson as leader will implement a review and then replace the GCSB legislation. That change will assuredly mean an end to mass wholesale surveillance on Kiwis by the GCSB and their affiliate agencies.
Labour will also adopt some of the Greens environmental policies to ensure their coalition support. All of these things will move New Zealand away from the destructive neo-liberal paradigm and towards a more equal society. But hey, if you want to wallow in the past and blame Labour for the present situation bad12, go right ahead.
It is not wallowing in the past to remember the same promises being made by Labour in the past.
Or to have enough political nous to see what social democrat parties are doing/have recently done in other parts of the world.
We are not talking ancient history here, many New Zealanders have experienced the real live betrayals of Lange and Clark, both of whom looked like bright shiny beacons of hope compared with National at the time.
How many times does the same thing have to happen before people understand it probably going to happen again.
Ok then Jackel seeing as you have given me the invite to wallow in Labour’s past i will,
The Lange Government improves beneficiaries living standards by adding PAYE to benefit payments, you might like to think that that only effected beneficiaries way back then, but added to Nationals later attack of direct benefit cuts this simply leaves today’s beneficiaries around $40 a week worse off in today’s terms, wallow wallow,
The Clark Government refused to make WFF a universal benefit where all children could access such payments on an equal basis, as the recipients of benefits are a huge ‘churn’ today’s beneficiaries are not likely to have been in receipt of a benefit back in 2004 that could have been bolstered by WFF but in terms of income as a comparison with the rest of society today’s beneficiaries are negative up to another $60 a week, wallow wallow,
Yes even at the 2011 election Labour’s Annette King,(i took as an act of desperation at the time), even went so far as to say that beneficiaries would be included in WFW, She, (i assume having been counselled), a couple of days later qualified that inclusion with the words ”in time”,
So, as you say Labour and i know it was a mistake to not make WFF a universal benefit for children, i hope to hear David Cunliffe after He becomes leader of the Labour Party say just that in a future speech, and i don’t know if i will be more surprised if He doesn’t than if He does…
Jackal would prefer all of us to embrace the deliberate political amnesia that NZ is so famous for.
You’re being a prat again CV.
bad said:..
“..Yes even at the 2011 election Labourâs Annette King,(i took as an act of desperation at the time), even went so far as to say that beneficiaries would be included in WFW, She, (i assume having been counselled), a couple of days later qualified that inclusion with the words âin timeâ..
as i recall..the ‘promise was to include them at an incremental rate that would have seen parity reached/full payment..
..by 2018..?..
..yet i guess some in labour were puzzled at the apparant indifference from those labour had ignored for so long..at this largesse..
(puzzled we/they weren’t filling the streets..sobbing in gratitude..)
..and puzzled why how those they had ignored for so long..continued to ignore them in return..
..a large part of me fears that many in labour still have not learnt that lesson..
..and will advocate/argue for minimal/incremental-increases for the poorest/most suffering..at best..
..phillip ure..
bad..i totally agree with you it is the minor coalition parties that will be dragging labour to many of those needed policies/actions..(not necessarily any 30’s labour-rebirth/eruption from within..)
..so what is needed is a labour party not averse to being taken to that well..
..and going on their records/pronouncments to date..
..i see cunnliffe as being more willing to sup..than robertson..
..(but i wd hasten to add..that i don’t think i am looking at labour/anycoalition thru rose-tinted glasses..
..and i retain enough cynicism to brace myself to go and stand in the bitter/disappointment-corner..by early 2016..)
..(btw..my voting-arc to date is labour/greens/mana..)
phillip ure..
I don’t know who this Helen Clarke was. However I can’t remember Helen Clark saying that, nor do I think that it is likely that she would have said it.
The reason for not including beneficiaries in the WFF was pretty simple. WFF was structured as a tax credit – so think about that.
Beneficiaries pay very little tax so consequently the effect of a tax credit is 5/8th of piss all. Moreover it would be a lot easier to simply directly increase the payments to beneficiaries with kids and to make the housing supplements related to number of kids. Which is what I seem to remember happened.
Actually most beneficiaries pay the same tax rate as people who work. The subsequent rulings on this matter certainly didn’t view the amount of tax beneficiaries pay as being a valid reason for them to not be included in the scheme.
Beneficiaries who spend their last dollar (ie all of them) pay 15% tax.
GST.
It’s a surprise that Douglas, Prebble, Caygill et al would bring in such a regressive tax. In 1986.
And Beneficiaries have the distinction of paying the most tax if they are working part time as well. For starters we are taxed at the secondary rate amd when we hit that much vaunted target of 80 bucks a week we get hammered even harder.
Colonial Viper âŠ
24 August 2013 at 12:22 pm
“Itâs a surprise that Douglas, Prebble, Caygill et al would bring in such a regressive tax. In 1986.”
Because it is an efficient tax.
The solution to the hight EMTRs that welfare recipients face is a guaranteed minimum income of $15,000 for everyone over 18. No means test. No abatement. No WINZ nightmare work tests.
@ aj:
likely rent makes up a large proportion of their spending, which is GST free.
Its ridiculous, I agree.
@shitlands
yes, but of course a tax can be highly regressive AND efficient at the same time. Where again, this is another instance of the term “efficient” to do with caning the poorest.
As for your minimum guaranteed income idea, great idea, but its still a pipe dream, whereas the regressiveness of GST is very here and now.
“yes, but of course a tax can be highly regressive AND efficient at the same time. Where again, this is another instance of the term âefficientâ to do with caning the poorest.”
Oh fuck off Viper you moron. How is that basement flat?
If a tax is not efficient it won’t raise revenue without crimping growth.
We have one of the lowest GST rates in the world. Oh Brunei doesn’t have a GST. Doesn’t have a welfare system either.
Crawl back to your hole.
“As for your minimum guaranteed income idea, great idea, but its still a pipe dream, ”
Viper you fucking moron. It is less of a pipe dream than any of the ideas I have seen snaking like shit from you.
Gosh LPrent i fall about in absolute horror at having mis-spelt a name, can i please be forgiven,(it’s not like you have 100% perfection or do you),
i well remember Clark saying exactly that or words to that effect, and have just spent the last hour trying to find a link to this which so far has not been successful, and will happily withdraw the comment i made above should i not be able to find a link,
Yes exactly if you want to specifically exclude the children of beneficiaries from gaining access to more money then you structure a benefit in such a way that those children cannot access it,(if children with parents earning $60,000 a year ‘needed’ this tax credit then the children of beneficiaries needed it a hell of a lot more, obviously that’s ‘only’ my opinion and please feel free to tell us all your opinion on that question),
”Beneficiaries pay very little tax” now that i would suggest is a ‘Tui Statement’, on one level you are correct, beneficiaries pay little tax because beneficiaries get paid sod all,
i don’t know what your income is Lprent, but consider your fixed costs and if you have ANY disposable income after that where it is your choice how you spend such disposable income or if you spend it at all,
As a % of income beneficiaries pay at least 27% of their total income on tax, both income and GST, if using tobacco products and/or petrol products that taxation rises dramatically to 27-35% of income, not much tax in dollar terms that may be, but as a % of income they are highly taxed,
”Housing supplements related to the number of kids” you remember that happening seems to me to be in the realm of me remembering Helen Clark telling beneficiaries that if they wanted Working for Families payments they should get a job,
Bet you will have as much trouble finding a link to that as i am to the Clark quote…
iprent said:..
“..I donât know who this Helen Clarke was. However I canât remember Helen Clark saying that, nor do I think that it is likely that she would have said it. ..”
(if she didn’t utter those specific words..this is what she did..)
“..The reason for not including beneficiaries in the WFF was pretty simple. WFF was structured as a tax credit â so think about that…”
(um..!..sorry..!..what exactly should one think about that..?..
..and how does that defend/excuse in any way the thesis of the clark labour govts’ nine year record of studious ignoring of the needs of the poorest..?..)
“..Beneficiaries pay very little tax..”
(as others have noted..benificiaries pay an extra 15% tax on 100% of their incomes..(g.s.t..)..
..this n top of the p.a.y.e. tax already extracted/deducted from that pittance..
..not to mention benificiaries having the highest claw-back taxes of any group..85% on any income over $80..(that one shut up a rightwing friend of mine..)
“.. Moreover it would be a lot easier to simply directly increase the payments to beneficiaries with kids – and to make the housing supplements related to number of kids. Which is what I seem to remember happened..”
..as one who lived through it..what you mention as moves undertaken by labour..was directing a garden hose at a holocaust..
..and did diddly-squat to undo in any way what had been wrought by richardson/shipley et al..
..and anyway..whither the childless unemployed/sick..?
..during those nine years..
..it is the hallmark of that clark government..and the biggest stain on their record..
..that they not only ignored/stigmatised the poor themselves..for those nine long years..
..but in doing so they also prepared the ground so well for the likes of bennett..eh..?..to launch the current/ongoing pogrom/war on the poor..
..but coming back to the here and now..surely any hope for a real ‘new’ labour party to be accepted (and perhaps more importantly) believed – by the electorate/those they ignored for so long/the current non-voters..?
..there has to be a coherent renunciation of the neo-lib that came before…surely..?..and promises to repair..?
..much as david milliband has done in britain in the last 24 hrs..where he..in his arguments/promises of a living-wage from any incoming labour govt in britain..for all..
(are you listening..?..nz labour..?..a ‘living-wage..?..’for all’..(the formula to end/do away with the blight of poverty in nz one fell swoop..).
…milliband has apologised for the labour that came before..and has promised to to make amends..
“..Answering critics who said he needed to admit that the Labour government made mistakes â Miliband said its economic policies had been lop-sided â and it had got it wrong.
âWe have to change our economyâ he said.
âWe were going down the up escalator –
– putting money into tax credits â but building a low-wage economy.â
Labour should back demands for a national living wage that paid more than the minimum wage â he said.
âItâs a priority for us.
Itâs important because frankly itâs terrible that one of the richest countries in the world hasnât just a huge child poverty problem –
– but a growing child poverty problem –
– including for people who are in work.â
(once again..are you listening..?..nz labour..?..)
..phillip ure…
phillip ure
I have to disagree there. This issue barely rated a mention in the mainstream media when it was occurring. There was certainly no real analysis even though there was a protracted battle to try and change the decision to not include beneficiaries. Now I would struggle to find any mention of it at all even though the effects of such legislation are only just now really coming home to roost.
In many ways it is the same as National’s latest round of beneficiary bashing. There is simply no information available about all those thousands of predominantly young people who are being kicked off welfare and have no other income. Paula Bennett cannot even answer questions relating to the exact numbers involved…she just giggles instead FFS! We can only guess at how detrimental these policies will be on society.
Therefore the issue of Labour not implementing a WFF type policy for beneficiaries barely rates as a stain on the last Labour government…except for those who understand politics and go looking for information that is. However there is no doubt that if Labour could afford to subsidize businesses by paying middle class families a tax incentive for their low wages, they assuredly could have done more to alleviate the terrible rate of severe poverty in New Zealand. Let’s hope they have learnt from their mistakes.
WFF was structured as a tax credit â so think about that.
That’s a wee bit disingenuous, lprent. Working for Families wasn’t some bright-eyed all-loving scheme to help poor families which “just happened” to be limited by being structured as a tax cut. It was deliberately denied to beneficiary families in order to “incentivise” them into work.
It’s basically the single most abhorrent example of how the Labour Party’s thinking over the past decade has been about securing middle-class votes by promoting the idea of some poor people as “deserving” and others as scapegoats. Are children going to go hungry because their parents can’t find work following a global financial crisis? Who cares as long as we get re-elected!
“It was deliberately denied to beneficiary families in order to âincentiviseâ them into work.”
Yep, and to demonstrate that Labour considered the beneficiary class needed incentivising.
If you search Red Alert you will find David Cunliffe, in response to me actually, saying that he believes in comparative advantage.
Lolz Draco, i find comparative advantage a little too chinese for my limited intellect, funnily enough i am not trying to undermine David Cunliffe in my previous comments no matter what they appear to transmit,
David Cunliffe would seem to be the best candidate to assume the Labour leadership and become the next Prime Minister having defeated the Slippery little shyster currently masquerading in that position,
i do tho have the opinion that large sections of the Labour Party and by extension the Labour Caucus believe that the Green Party will simply enable any old government as a lapdog coalition partner much as the smaller partners in previous coalitions have, and the Green Party will have to work hard to bring about the social changes much needed in our society in effect having to chisel any gains for the lowest 30% of people in our society out of a possibly reluctant Labour,
i sat silently non-critical of the Clark government for most of it’s reign Hoping, i do not really see myself extending the benefit of that silence and Hope if a David Cunliffe Labour Government suddenly finds ‘reform’ to be too hard…
Neither was I, I was pointing out that David Cunliffe still believes in neo-liberalism – the same as Helen Clark obviously did.
“If you search Red Alert you will find David Cunliffe, in response to me actually, saying that he believes in comparative advantage.”
I am sure that applies to all New Zealand political parties except the Greens, Mana, and NZ First.
How is that news?
It’s not – which is the problem. Almost all of our political parties won’t change the underlying system which is causing poverty in our country and destroying our environment.
What does ‘comparative advantage’ mean?
Its a very old economics idea.
It was first espoused along the lines of England has a comparative advantage in producing wool and cloth, while Portugal has a comparative advantage in producing grapes and wine.
England and Portugal should stick to what they are good at doing, and then trade with each other so that each can have cloth and wine.
(The start of a philosophy of globalised trade)
Comparative advantage is meaningless today because most goods traded do not rely on natural environmental and climactic conditions. You can build an iPad or a Ford Territory just as well in China as you can in the USA, for instance.
“Comparative advantage is meaningless today because most goods traded do not rely on natural environmental and climactic conditions. You can build an iPad or a Ford Territory just as well in China as you can in the USA, for instance.”
Bullshit
You can also make excellent wine and excellent cloth in at least three dozen different countries around the world.
The original theory of comparative advantage is mostly bunk now.
“The original theory of comparative advantage is mostly bunk now.”
Bullshit
In addition, the massive growth of the financial economy means that the old theories of comparative advantage are largely bunk now. You can situate servers, trading desks and fibre optic cables most places in the world very easily, for instance. Financial centres and corporate ownership don’t have to be anywhere near where the raw materials, workers, or factories actually are.
Bottom line – “comparative advantage” theories are largely irrelevant.
“Bottom line â âcomparative advantageâ theories are largely irrelevant.”
Bullshit. You really are a moron aren’t you?
And since the internet revolution, theories of comparative advantage have decreased in relevance even further.
The next multi-billion dollar Yahoo! or Google! could just as easily come out of Mumbai, Beijing, Perth, Auckland or Moscow.
Its well over time that economics updates many of its basic tenets, but given the fundamentalist nature of the discipline and its acolytes, it seems sadly unlikely.
“And since the internet revolution, theories of comparative advantage have decreased in relevance even further.”
Bullshit. New Zealand has comparative advantage in fuck all. Dairy will be our lot for the forseeable future. I wonder why?
Maybe Qatar will start a dairying industry now that comparative advantage is finished. They will be printing cows using 3D printers.
You really are a fucking moron aren’t you?
OK I will admit that NZ has a comparative advantage in dairy when compared to desert lands and to say the stony peaks of the Himalayas.
Is this an example of the brilliant insights of your outdated theory? Seems to be a bit mundane and prosaic.
Comparative Advantage
It’s all a load of bollocks though as the benefits of comparative advantage are so tiny that interest rates above 0% turn the benefits of trade negative. Also, Absolute advantage, which is what C.V. first identifies and has a spat with srylands over, will always trump comparative advantage as well.
The problem then becomes that no country has any advantage over any other country in manufactured goods as all factories produced today are as efficient as all other factories – they’re designed that way. The fact that all factories are as efficient as all others also removes economies of scale from the equation – bigger factories no longer have the productivity advantage that they did in the 19th century.
The difference we see in prices are artificial and not a result of improved efficiencies. What all this means is that all countries could produce everything they require in their own borders cheaper than they could get anything through trade.
That leaves food but even there we don’t have any advantages. Kiwifruit can, and are, grown elsewhere. So are cows and, in fact, pretty much everything else we produce here. That’s why we, every now and then, get a few people who understand this complaining that China is importing our cows and know-how and they’re right. As soon as China does get those things our dairy industry is history as China happen to be a lot closer to our main market for such things – China.
Oh good, we can go back to growing our own food then.
Thanks CV and DtB for explaining.
The original comment about Cunliffe not resiling from Clark’s position, hence his belief in comparative advantage, was that re neoliberalism? (I originally read it as not resiling from the WFF position).
LPrent, feel free to zap the quote as i am having trouble finding a link to Clark having said such,
i will keep looking and put the quote in another comment if i find a link to it…
Right wasn’t that a f**king arduous little task, having asked the question of Google in a zillion different ways and read far too many links that my tired old eyes deserve to be punished with in any one session i can say that i hardly managed at all to find anything that Helen Clark was quoted as saying about Working for Families vis a vis Jobs and Beneficiaries,
This appears to be the clearest link and it is obscure, the publication is actually a news site for would be immigrants and appears to be aimed at Australians a Britons, but, a link it is,
http://www.chineselessons.docutoasters.com>…>New Zealand outlook>2004
The message according to Prime Minister Helen Clark is: ”You will be better off when you go to work”
Micheal Cullen is quoted in the same article ”Working for Families has 3 aims”, one of the quoted aims, ”To reduce barriers to work”, unquote,
As many of my links have the stinks, Google= Consyl publishing & Publicity, the atrticle should be on the page…
Your link doesn’t work bad12. I think you’re probably looking for something like this Ministry of Social Development (RTF) document, which quotes Helen Clark saying:
She made that statement in June 2008 specifically concerning WFF and at a time when the Child Poverty Action Group was taking the matter through the courts. Here’s CPAG’s comment on the judgment (PDF).
Lolz thanks Jackal, Aaaaah it’s a PLOT, even the Google i gave now doesn’t take you there,
One more try and then i am giving up, apologizing and withdrawing the comment and off to spend the night sobbing into my little lace hanky,
http://www.chineselessons.docutoaster.com/newzealandoutlook/nzfeb045.HTML
If that gets you there, click on 2004(in blue) and scroll down page to July,
”Big winners in budget are working families”,
Lolz the longer i look the ‘crankier’ my PC gets but it is there and it does quote Helen Clark on working for Families, ”You will be better of when you go to work”,
Also Micheal Cullen,” Working for families had three aims said Finance Minister Micheal Cullen, to reduce barriers to work, ensure people are better off working, and, ensure families are able to give their children the best start to life”,
i certainly didn’t here or see that particular quote from Helen Clark originally from this particular site but it’s the only one i can find that directly echos what i know she said…
Hey Bad. This is the best I could come up with on a quick trawl. However my memory is that at some time, probably in an interview situation, Clark said something more pithy and very similar to the words you paraphrased above at 9.56am:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/469911/Families-policy-flawed-and-discriminatory
“Speaking ahead of the hearing this morning, Prime Minister Helen Clark said today the in-work payment was there to ensure people were better off when they went to work.
“The best form of social security is a job,” she said on TV One’s Breakfast programme.
“We don’t want to do anything that would stop the movement of beneficiaries back to work.”
Lolz whoever you is your funny, but, probably about to make me a rather large TARGET,
Don’t let that stop you tho,and thanks for the link, Lolz i am pretty sure i heard it the way i have said it, probably on RadioNZ National but mods kindly asked for a link and the one i have provided is the closest to the quote i can come,
As my ‘new pa’ i won’t give you the task of trawling through RadioNZ’s archives trying to find where Helen Clark is quoted saying it, instead can you compile me a loud tape full of open laughter so i can play it continuously when David Cunliffe rids us of the current Slippery little shyster…
I would like to buy into the narrative of Cunliffe as the great redeemer
I haven’t seen that much of a “great redeemer” narrative – if you look at my post on Cunliffe yesterday & why I electorate vote him, you will see I have criticisms (of his centrism, and focus on economic growth, plus having said little on the need to restructure social security).
Cunliffe does seem to me to be the best the Labour caucus has to oppose, and hopefully dismiss, Key at the next election. He does express a strong critique of neoliberalism, but will have to see how that would carry into practice if he was PM.
I have real reservations about the current political positioning of parliamentary Labour, and will continue to party vote Green or Mana.
I’ve seen many other similar sentiments from others on TS.
+1
Yes pathetic Jonolism from a tired press hack more interested in conducting interviews with Himself and drawing wrong conclusions, if Armstrong but brains weak had an iota of journalistic integrity He would have investigated the ‘unfathomable’ so as to at least enlighten Himself instead of attempting to soil Cunliffe with His piss weak denigration,
Topping Armstong but brains weak’s effort at Jonolism in today’s Herald tho was the winner of this weeks ‘Golden Turd’ for exceptional efforts in the promotion of Jonolism Fran O’Sullivan, awarded to those in the main stream of New Zealand media who having not a grain of truth simply make s**t up and smear these lies across the pages of their shoddy rags,
In today’s Herald O’Sullivan not only lies about the head of the Council of Trade Unions Helen Kelly, She, O’Sullivan openly slanders Her,
O’Sullivan’s claim that Helen Kelly has said that the Union Affiliates to the Labour Party will block vote in the upcoming leadership contest is simply wrong in fact, Helen Kelly has said that the union Affiliates will vote for the person they see as the best Labour leader in terms of ousting the current National Government,
Wrong in fact twice in one paragraph, O’Sullivan either has little knowledge of the Union Affiliates She has chosen to write of, or has simply chosen to print LIES,
It is virtually impossible for the Union Affiliates to Block Vote for the next leader of the Labour Party as some of the Affiliated Unions will have ALL their members having a vote each and some of the Affiliated Unions will have only delegates casting a vote after consulting the shop floor,
A well deserved ‘Golden Turd’ award goes to the Heralds Fran O’Sullivan who, the more she writes on any particular subject, the more inclined to stray into the realms of out-right bulls**t She becomes….
I hope you’ll point that out in the comments section under Fran O’Sullivan’s piece.
From Armstrong on Robertson: ” Gay, but not overtly so. Comes across instead as a Good Kiwi Bloke who likes a beer or two while chewing the political fat.”
Yes, Armstrong’s attempt to not critique Robertson and support him, exposes Armstrong’s biases – showing exactly where he gets his views on the Labour leadership – down the pub. It’s all about the relationship between such journos and the Labour Caucus right wing.
Agreed. An (un) subtle hint by Armstrong – and he’s back to his usual “Key is God” self near the end of his ‘opinion’ diatribe.
Spot on, Karol.
On mobile so no reply button, but at Vto I disagree entirely with the sentiment that only the right holds bigots. There aare large tracts of the religious Pacifica community which are deeply bigoted. From memory labours mp for mangere was stating as much last year. Plenty of bigots on both sides of the political devide im afraid….
There’s no question more bigots support political parties like National, Act and NZ First. Although some homophobes who support Labour might no longer with Grant Robertson leading, the LGBT community would likely identify and therefore support him. There are likely just as many swing voters in both camps (excuse the pun). Therefore I think there will be no more or less support for Robertson. His sexuality is quite simply not an issue and I’m somewhat disappointed the MSM is trying to make it one.
The other huge counter against Robertson is that he’s not had any actual experience in Government – around the Cabinet table. He’s only been in Parliament a few years – in Oppposition.
Labour cannot afford to experiment – as Jenny Michie has said – we need someone who knows the machinations around Govt departments, who’s had experience of how the top civil servants operate with Ministers trying to put through different policies., and who can really “foot” it with Key.
Cunliffe has all of that., Robertson is only halfway there.
For a caucus which chose to put in a leader with even less Parliamentary experience, your logic is probably a bridge too far.
Something to give you a buzz on a beautiful Saturday morning!
Well, if you have a warped sense of humour like mine.
Shearer’s resignation sung in opera style – found the link on Public Address.
http://t.co/rc77OzUxQc
Thanks for the link!
I look forward to the completed Opera; “Mango skin man on the road to obscurity” might be a good title.
Whoever takes the helm at labour I wish them the best – this is a chance to pull the team together to fight the horrible gnats and their destructive agenda – it can be done, it must be done.
History in the making: a summary of the legislative and administrative actions of New Zealand’s first Labour government during its first year of office
I got my hands on this interesting booklet recently and I thought I’d scan and upload it. It’s impressive how much they accomplished in just one year.
WTF is this Coatsworth woman (who ever she is) saying that there can be no deals ie Cunliffe/Robertson, saying there HAS to be a US (What is the fascination with the fucking yanks?) style primary. (this has now put me off Labour politics for good) I thought we were going to have a clean out and new leaders put in.
But no it’s still the same ol’ same ol’ from those behind the scenes.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9081515/Contenders-face-US-style-primary
Holy frak, that’s not the intended important bit, its the “50,000 voting papers” which is the stunner!
By the way David H, why are you complaining about behind the scenes Labour stage direction when you are a supporter of getting a backroom deal cut and leaving members’ voices out of it completely?
David, Moira is the party President. She didn’t say the things you attribute to her and you clearly misunderstand what she actually did say; which is that the members want a say. It’s your proposition that is ‘same ol same ol’ and that is not the membership preference, by a long shot.
A series of well attended debates around the country will also have the positive effect of lifting Labour’s profile, energising the activist base and re-aquainting caucus with the people who put them in their jobs.
CV: the 50k includes union members. However, it’s up to each individual affililiate whether they ballot all members. Some will make the decision at delegate or executive level.
It also puts media attention on Labour for the next four weeks, where they can articulate their vision and lead the national conversation, rather than be reactive to the government’s policies.
It really is the start of the campaign for 2014.
My first impression was for a Cunliffe/Robertson ‘ticket’ to be put together as this to me would ‘seem’ the best leadership team for Labour both in terms of having the left/right factions ‘at the top table’, Cunliffe/Robertson are the Labour Party’s top 2 performers in the House, and, in terms of electorate appeal Cunliffe/Robertson are right up there,
*if the Stuff poll is to be taken notice of, dubious at best, Jacinda Adhern seems also have a high public profile*
Having said all that, it is right for the Party membership to expect, and be highly disappointed if the question of leadership is not put to the vote, it is after-all ‘their’ Party,
This in no way would preclude Cunliffe and Robertson putting together a ‘ticket’ to contest for the leadership and nor would it preclude the winner of a contest between Cunliffe and Robertson offering the Deputy position to the loser in such a contest,
It is tho obvious that the membership and affiliates will accept nothing less that a democratic election process to decide who the next leader of Labour and next Prime Minister will be…
“in terms of electorate appeal Cunliffe/Robertson are right up there,”
How does Robertson have electorate appeal? Various polls show most NZers have never heard of him. He came third in his own electorate.
Pray tell how did the Member for Wellington Central become the Member if He only came ‘third’ in his electorate,
If ‘various poll’s were to be the measure by which we are to judge this question of electoral appeal the Stuff Poll yesterday had Jacinda Adhern polling ahead of David Cunliffe as most favored Labour Party leader…
Sorry, my mistake, repeating what others have said.
He won the electorate, but the party vote for labour in that electorate was behind National by ~5000 votes, and behind Greens by ~450.
L, all good, i have also seen that elsewhere on the Standard used as a Robertson putdown, it’s hard to slap Grant round for that Party vote in Wellington,
Wellington is a hot bed of Green activism and IF there is to be a Green electorate MP in the upcoming or 2017 elections i would suggest it will be one of the Wellington Labour seats that falls,
Annette King’s numbers both in the electorate and party votes took a hammering last time round as well and much of that is found in the Green numbers out here in the electorate,
That’s MMP i guess, Labour as i have seen some on here comment cannot retreat to the belief that the Green’s are cannibalizing ‘their votes’ as it’s now a free-for-all where we are free to attempt to build the best coalition of the left possible…
Annette’s electorate vote remained very strong, with a 9000 majority. The party vote did horribly in Rongotai however, well under the NZ average for Labour.
Most of the party vote bleed went straight to the Greens (+7.2% on 2008)
While there is something to be said for having Ardern as a deputy during the electioneering phase, I just can’t see her being the low profile grafter doing the hard yards as a deputy leader. The extra votes may win the election for Labour sure, but in that case where margins are so thin, the Greens are going to be edgy cause if they go into coalition they will be really worried about the inevitable blowback coalition means for the lesser party and if they don’t Labour’s deputy leader will also be deputy PM.
In both cases the deputy leader must be a heads down bum sort of person who is happy to let the PM take the limelight while they look after the nuts & bolts.
If that sounds like a job that Ardern could happily fill, then fine, she should be deputy, but if you believe as I do that she would struggle to suppress her natural character fulfilling that role, then think again, because Labour winning and cocking it up completely, making mis-steps & unable to to get anything done competently would be much worse than not winning at all since it would likely presage another long term Tory domination of Aotearoa.
It’s got to be Wall.
re ardern:..you don’t think you are inflating the power/importance/role of a deputy-leader post-election..?..(esp. in a coalition govt..?..)
..and re greens:..i’m not speaking from any insider knowledge or anything..
..but i would think the number/signifigance of ministerial-roles would mean more to the greens post-election..
..than a title for one of them…
..phillip ure..
yeah right Michael Cullen never got up to anything in the Clark govt, except of course making sure Treasury stayed away from decisions they woulda cocked up plus he left the country in the healthiest financial state for about half a century.
Having an offsider like that is essential for an effective PM because it gives the boss distance, so when things turn to custard they can make political decisions free from the attempts of public servants to capture em. Having the deputy leader double as finance/treasury person is a proven model that works with MMP coalition governments.
are you sure you aren’t first-past-the-post thinking on that..?
..this upcoming govt will be the first real m.m.p-govt in our history..(in more a govt of equals..)
..and surely much of that (acknowledged) load shouldered by the deputy under f.p.p..
..will be taken up by/shared the coalition parties’ luminaries..?
..and anyway..while she is undoubtedly skilled..(and getting better at the job..going on q-time appearances..)..i argued ardern as deputy purely on the grounds of wider-electoral-appeal than anyone else mooted for the role….
..and help in re-taking ak for labour..
..and for helping win ak central back for labour..
..aside from those considerations..i am kinda agnostic on deputies..
..just as long as cunnliffe gets the leaders’-nod..
..’cos he is the only one..at this particular point..who is up to the job at hand..
..namely to stop key..and what he and his dead-eyed/zealot compatriots are doing to nz..
..eh..?
phillip ure..
Why are people even considering Ardern as Deputy?
At 33 and having never won an electorate seat she is far less experienced or skilled than other potential Deputies.
And if something terrible happens to a Labour Prime Minister, Ardern takes over as PM?
That’s what a Deputy Leader is. Your number two in case the number one isn’t around.
Not really, except in the very short term. They’d take the placeholder reins between the death and a caucus meeting that will be called for after the death to select the new leader. They have to be selected as leader of the parliamentary caucus (because that has been their role).
With variations this is what happened in 1940 when Savage died, and in 1974 when Kirk died. That their deputies took on the role was more coincidence than anything else.
This isn’t the US, and the leaders of the party had not been selected in a vote by the public or even the members.
Now that there is a membership/affiliates vote as well, then I’d expect that much the same system continues. However rather than the shorter period to a caucus vote, it will be a longer period until all of the votes are counted. The case where it was shorter would be if there were only one candidate.
BTW: Even in the case of current prime minister, we have had the Gerry Brownlee running the country while both Key and English were out of the country. Bearing in mind the hash he is making of Christchurch, it is a damn good thing that they didn’t crash.
But what about being “Acting PM” when the Prime Minister is out of the country? I don’t see Ardern being given that responsibility with so much more experience and skill around her.
The Deputy Leader should be the person you think could do the job as Leader if the Leader isn’t there. That’s why Robertson is Deputy now, and why he will be Deputy behind Cunliffe in a few weeks.
Yes, but does an “acting PM” actually do anything that the PM wouldn’t have? Do they go and give important speeches or initiate new important policy? No. They’re simply there to hold the fort until the PM gets back. In the event of a natural disaster or other crisis, the PM would hot-foot it back from wherever they are anyway.
Probably the only thing that comes to mind an “acting PM” has ever done would be Bill English signing off to suppress that the GCSB had any involvement in Kim Dotcom while Key was off watching a baseball game, and clearly that had nothing to do with running the country.
Which is why I think that was done of the direct authorisation of Key. English has no actual role with the GCSB except what he does on Key’s behalf. The GCSB, like the military, police, and SIS if directly controlled by the “crown” and is not technically part of the government – except as far as the GG cedes authority and those organisations choose to accept it at an operational level.
Read the last Police Act for the clearest examples of that.
My fault for confusing the two roles. Leader of a parliamentary caucus =/= PM.
However it is a very limited role because the Acting PM (in all cases) is acting as a muppet for the PM. They do not get appointed to the role by the governor general and therefore do not gte given access to the powers of the crown that are given to the PM. Incidentally the English has much the same restraints.
And I have one word to say… Brownlee
(count your blessings)
Fair enough. Good chat.
But what about being âActing PMâ when the Prime Minister is out of the country? I donât see Ardern being given that responsibility with so much more experience and skill around her.
You’re assuming that Labour in government would get both the PM and Deputy PM roles. Depending on how the party vote turns out, it could very possibly be a Green co-leader (or two) in the Deputy seat.
Cunliffe/Jones. Robertson and others just don’t cut the mustard.
Andrew Little, the other two are far too divisive and factional.
If Labour wants an effective relationship with the Greens in the form of a coalition, they shouldn’t choose Andrew Little. His views on fossil fuels are completely opposite theirs, which could prove fatal in any future negotiations. Perhaps why you’re advocating for him in the first place BM?
Personally the way I see Labour going forwards is that it returns to it’s roots. that being the political voice for the trade union.
The left do not work well together it seems every one need to have their own little fiefdom, luckily with MMP you can do this and still make a mark politically on the NZ landscape.
The idea of Labour having to be a broad church is unnecessary these days, the left should consist of 3 political groups.
1 Labour – the trade unions
2. The Greens- environmentalists
3. The progressives – gay, liberal, chardonnay socialist, Cunliffe types,etc.
This whole under one umbrella approach does not work with the left and there’s no need for it in a MMP environment.
Question: Who decides who the deputy Leader will be?
The caucus.
Attention residents of the Ohariu Electorate, Be here tomorrow:
“No more Dunne deals” public meeting 2pm Sunday 25th August, Johnsonville Community Centre. Hosted by People’s Power Ohariu.
That’s all I know about it, just spotted a sign while out in the neighbourhood this morning.
Revisiting Robert Redford and Alan Pakula’s classic movie All The President’s Men forces us to ask the question: is Obama the new Nixon?
http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2013/08/nixon-obama-and-weight-of-paper.html
is Obama the new Nixon?
In terms of foreign policy and security No.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-23/the-secret-bromance-of-nixon-and-brezhnev.html
here Obama is the new bush.
In terms of domestic security Yes,but he exceeds it wanting to be the new Hoover
Totally copacetic Phil Ure.
Cunliffe/Ardern. Brains, heart, safety, record, youth, geography, gender, sex appeal. The sewer rats will be sweating with terror.
Robertson who?
no brainer….eh….Indeed.
As for the Hels quote, who cares. Look no further than the sickening abolition of the Special Benefit: no need, no explanation, massive hammer to the most vulnerable.
Like the roof diddler cruelty, last last straw, no excuse, clean slate now or die.
ak@18 – apropos your penultimate paragraph. This is the predictable result when peoples’ humanity is attacked so callously.
The facile disgustingly blind response is to say – “Ooh look they’re violent. They’re breaking the law…….”.
As exemplified by the words “national/crime” in the link, and these words at the foot of this Stuff article – “Next Crime Story”.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9083093/Welfare-staff-hit-abused
It is not the poor who are the criminals here. They are people at the bottom being jackbooted even further down by the loathsome Marie Anoinette Paula Bennett. She and her soldiers both within and without WINZ (which is to say a minority of WINZ people) deserve a wrathful karma.
Xstasy – I note a particular comment you made either today or yesterday – please know that I am with the first person who responded. Unreserved aroha to you.
bigots know no political ideology. did not oconnor bemoan the gaggle of gays in labour?
hardly showing a tolerance of different sexual orientations.
” Gay, but not overtly so. ” armstrong wtf
armstrong:..”..reactionary-apologist – but not overtly so..”
phillip ure..
The term Armstrong was striving for, but obviously isn’t cognisant of, is “straight-acting”.
Yet another bike term to me, L. In fact he means, actually I have nfi what he means apart from Robertson isn’t camp or effeminate.
“bike term”?
‘bike term’..
it’s something to do with those tight lycra shorts..
..whoar..!
..phillip ure..
” A proposed law change to bring lobbying of MPs out of the shadows has been rejected by a parliamentary committee out of concern that it was too broad and would have discouraged constituents from engaging with politicians. Her bill would have created a public register for lobbyists and required them to follow a code of ethics drawn up by the Auditor-General and file quarterly returns.
It would be a criminal offence for unregistered corporate lobbyists, union members, or workers with non-government organisations to lobby MPs.”
” Committee chairwoman and Labour MP Ruth Dyson said: “If you’ve got a bunch of family members who aren’t being paid to provide care to their family, they should be able to lobby you. You wouldn’t want them to go through a registration process for having their views known.”
yes ruth, families are where the problems lie…. you all just want to protect the right of access by the little people.
yea right
Good to know after the GCSB bill has passed – It was implied on “The Nation” that spying on us will lead to higher Telco costs being passed on to consumers.
Yeah we pay for the spying they do on us. Both through taxes and through increased indirect telco costs.
Also with a little help $$ from the US.
Indeed.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/23/nsa-prism-costs-tech-companies-paid
And just in-case you thought it couldn’t happen here http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2013/08/gcsb-receives-us-funding.html
I just realised I haven’t seen any of Morrissey’s strident ravings recently. Has he been banned?
Has it been keeping you awake at night La! or did you suddenly just decide to have a crack at someone you didn’t like and hadn’t heard from for a while.
The latter.
Can someone tell me, please, which unions are affiliated to the Labour Party and will therefore be able to vote for its leader?
Also, is it correct that the CTU is not affiliated to the Labour Party and has no formal connection? I want to put the facts right on Fran O’Sullivan’s comments section, not that it will make much difference to the trogs. But one must try – sigh.
EPMU…RMTU…SWFU…MWU…DWU…I think…there are probably others.
According to Wikipedia:
The Labour Party Election Guide lists these:
DWU
EPMU
MUNZ
MWU
RMTU
SFWU
With instructions on how they will each vote – in the Appendix A.
CTU = Council of Trade Unions so they probably don’t have a direct connection to Labour but some, if not all, of their member unions will.
Thank you. I’ve been back to Fran O’Sullivan’s article and saw this:
Fran O’Sullivan: An earlier version of this column misinterpreted comments by CTU president Helen Kelly as indicating unions would block-vote their 20 per cent for one candidate only.” The error is regretted.
I don’t think they’re taking anymore comments at the moment.
I was interested to know the answer anyway.
LOLZ, Fran is still wearing that ”Golden Turd” award…
While we’re spending time discussing leaders:
And NZ managers are some of the worst in the world.
BTW, that link has a horrible ad popup, probably put there by one of those incompetent managers, that you have to close before you can read the page. You don’t have to read the advert though.
Lolz, thanks for that DTB, i can now save my sensitive sensibilities from the ordeal…
Jacinda Ardern comes across as very lightweight and eager to participate in photo ops, but showing little evidence that she has done the hard work her spokesperson role needs and deserves. I have no idea what he successes are, apart from restoring a small caravan. Given the obscenity of NAct policies and the vileness and thick headedness of Paula Bennett, she should have made far more impact. My conclusion is that she probably believes in the Tory bullshit about deserving and undeserving poor and is exactly the sort of person who should not be promoted. If Cunliffe wants to step back from Friedman, as he should, he’ll need a deputy who has shown a willingness to go against the consensus. For me, that is Louisa Wall.
One other thing – shittyhands can go and fuck himself. I’ll even arrange for a sympathetic doctor to provide a viagra script for him (Could be a she, but I’m doubtful. Libertarians are more gender challenged than any group except maybe NRL props). How does a Rand/Hayek acolyte get to come here and tell people they’re morons? Anyone that believes that shit has the intellect of a three year old that’s just learned that eating dogshit upsets people and therefore does it as often as possible.
“one other thing â shittyhands can go and fuck himself. Iâll even arrange for a sympathetic doctor to provide a viagra script for him ”
I assume this is a reference to me?
Olsen – +1 to list – you can get fucked too. What a fool.
[RL: I could moderate you here and now; but in this instance I’m happy to leave you up as an object lesson.]
can you please give us another lecture on why exporting NZ jobs and deciminating Kiwi industries is such a wonderful and proper thing? We haven’t seen enough of that over the last 30 years to understand what it all means.
“can you please give us another lecture on why exporting NZ jobs and deciminating Kiwi industries is such a wonderful and proper thing? We havenât seen enough of that over the last 30 years to understand what it all means.”
It comes with WTO membership.
@srylands. Did you watch TV3 news tonight? A good article about a kiwi running a dairy farm in China….their production was 3 times higher than in NZ. You may want to do a bit more work on whether your understanding of “comparative advantage” still exists.
Why is US Homeland Security buying 1.6B rounds of ammo?
That’s 5 bullets for every man, woman and child in the USA. At the peak of the Iraq War, US forces were using roughly 6M bullets per month. This purchase order could keep a maximum Iraq War running for 25 years. At home, on US soil.
What is going on?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/
The most laughable suggestion I have read…they’re buying this many bullets because it’s ‘cheaper in bulk’.
Well obviously if it’s cheaper to buy 10,000 than 1,000 then by the time you’re buying 1.6 billion they’re all totally free. That’s logic.
Its funny but some of the other websites i go based in the states would totally agree with you of course you probably wouldn’t agree with some other their other political viewpoints…
Well, I’d agree with the viewpoint that the power of government over its citizens needs to be very carefully constrained. A true democracy needs due process and the rule of law applied fairly to everyone.
The lobbying arm of the NRA, The Institute for Legislative Action and certainly no cheerleader for Obama, looks at the actual numbers and calls bullshit on the conspiracy theories.
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2012/federal-law-enforcement-agencies-buy-ammunition.aspx
Forbes Magazine, which is not exactly a light weight publication, says that it is a 1.6B round order. The NRA accounts for just 450M rounds.