Open mike 25/01/2025

Written By: - Date published: 9:42 am, January 25th, 2025 - 35 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

35 comments on “Open mike 25/01/2025 ”

  1. gsays 1

    Because there is a fair bit of angst at the moment here is a ray of joy from a gorgeous morning in the 'Tu.

    Usually a bit of a downer ("…crushed like a bug in the ground..let down and hanging around…") Toots and crew turn it into an upbeat Jamaican Dancehall number.

  2. Dennis Frank 2

    Australia's govt is allocating a $2 billion subsidy to Green aluminium – following our govt subsidy, in which context, Rio Tinto signed

    20-year power deals with Meridian, Contact and Mercury… most of the alumina converted into aluminium by Tiwai is shipped from Rio Tinto’s Yarwun and Queensland Alumina refineries, processed in New Zealand and then sent offshore. The company sought assurances about carbon subsidies from government that could be worth $46m a year before signing the 20-year power deals. It is unclear what this subsidy will work out to in practice, with Climate Change Minister Simon Watts declining to release the indicative figure In August last year.

    Climate campaign group Don’t Subsidise Pollution worked out the total value of the subsidy could be $2 billion between now and 2050.

    It also bought out Sumitomo Chemical Company’s 20.64 percent stake in New Zealand Aluminium Smelters in November last year.

    https://newsroom.co.nz/2025/01/23/albaneses-aluminium-grant-shows-globalisation-tide-going-out-jones-says/

    So we're past peak globalisation, and the DSP campaigners figure $2 billion, which matches Albanese's subsidy nicely, even if one spans 11 years and the other 25.

    Great to see those eco-warriors are so wealthy they bought a fifth of the smelter corp, making a serious substantial investment in Green capitalism!

    • Ad 2.1

      We got very close to green steel at BlueSteel Glenbrook with a grant that would have taken them off coal and onto electricity.

      Great Green+Labour initiative killed by National.

    • weka 2.2

      green aluminium, haven't heard something this nonsensical in a while.

      • Dennis Frank 2.2.1

        Yeah, my inner sceptic had a similar reaction. However in politics we must always be open to opportunities for leveraging our influence. Industry simulating going Green via greenwash was a big trend for a decade or two so mainstreamers inevitably coalesce on the learning curve to authenticity – even if it takes them too long…

  3. Obtrectator 3

    Big article in the Post today about how we may be stumbling our way to a surveillance society. The print edition covers half a broadsheet page, and although the former Green MP's spot of bother at Pak 'n' Save is recounted yet again, they at least refrain from printing her photo.

    Encouraging? Actually, no. On turning up the online version to get the link below, you've guessed it – still another picture. But at least this time there's also one of that snaky bastard Molloy.

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/business/360555683/fears-over-growing-private-surveillance-systems

  4. tWig 4

    A call to arms for the leftish wing article from Peter Hyman, who advised both Starmer and Blair, 'How you can beat populism". Sorry, I was able to read this on my phone, but can't on the library PC without registering.

    It makes some great observations on moving past culture wars baiting by the right and how critical it is to have inspiring alternatives to lw centre governments. This theme is quite common at TS, and Hyman gets to the heart of it.

    Interestingly, a google search of Hyman articles brings up didly-squat on the first page, whereas a phone search using duckduckagogo pulled up several interesting reads by Hyman along the same lines. Censoring algorithms?

    • Incognito 4.1

      Censoring algorithms?

      No, more likely it’s tailored to your search history; not everything is ‘censoring’ and this is one of the many overused words in contemporary discourse that displays the lazy ignorance of the user as well as of the recipient/consumer.

  5. Incognito 5

    Brian Easton undermines David Seymour’s baseless rhetoric for the proposed Regulatory Standards Bill and, implicitly, at the same time Christopher Luxon’s simplistic use of the growth mantra. Good read from the TS Media feeds section.

    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/how-important-is-regulation-to-economic-performance

    • Tony Veitch 5.1

      We could have a bigger economy if we were willing to have filthy air and a lot more injured workers, but that’s not a trade-off we want to make.’

      But it is a trade-off ACT (and NZF and Natz) appear willing to make.

  6. Macro 6

    ooops was a response to tWig above – answered by Incognito

    can't on the library PC without registering.

    then

    Interestingly, a google search of Hyman articles brings up didly-squat on the first page, whereas a phone search using duckduckagogo pulled up several interesting reads by Hyman along the same lines. Censoring algorithms?

    If you were using the library PC for your search you will get an entirely different response to that of your phone, because that PC will be used by multiple users. Search engines align their responses to a users search according to the users web history.

  7. Incognito 7

    Arguments against extreme individualism do not argue for extreme collectivism, however. When these different human capacities are taken to extremes, they end up in very similar places, it seems.

    https://newsroom.co.nz/2025/01/21/anne-salmond-hayeks-bastards/ [comment by Anne Salmond: 23/01/2025 at 11:43 am]

    This begs the question, is there a sweet spot or only some messy ‘centre’ area around and across we (humankind and human societies) oscillate (non-randomly) with no (evolutionary) end in sight. Carl Jung theorised about dualism and the process of integration and transition that’s by no means easy and guaranteed of a successful outcome, on an individual level. It always seems to me that ACToids and (other) disciples of Hayek are stuck in the first stage of separation from the collective.

  8. Kay 8

    Seymour clearly thinks he is an asset to New Zealand.

    Can we flog him off to the highest bidder?

  9. Adrian 9

    How’s the economy going then, Nicky No-Boats ?. If this story is subsequently found to be true in a few months when the the stats are revealed, an acquaintance in Nelson told me last night that a fuel tanker on its Chch to Nelson service station delivery run went back to Chch half full because Nelson demand so far this January is 38% down on last year. I find that hard to believe. but when I also hear stories from hospo and accomodation contacts, ( our small business services hospo in the upper South ) it may well be not so surprising. So how to completely fuck up a small economy eh. These Masters of the Universe must be good for something so maybe it’s just fuck-up after fuck-up.

  10. Dennis Frank 10

    Magical thinking only works in politics via replication, so Lux has to do his chatterbox thing on it:

    Growth, said Christopher Luxon yesterday. Growth, growth, growth. Growth “unlocked”, he said. Growth “unleashed”. Growth “supercharged” and “turbocharged”. In a speech to the Auckland Business Chamber he used the word so many times – 43 – I feared a beanstalk might spontaneously sprout from the lush blue curtains of the Cordis ballroom and burst through the turquoise chandeliers. https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/24-01-2025/luxon-launches-year-of-growth-with-a-war-on-nojo

    As a political strategy, it relies on supply and demand: if he demands growth using his 43x multiplier motormouth, bystanders will immediately start supplying it. Cause and effect – a relation well-known to conservatives.

    Even those lying around on the sand will have the growth meme bouncing around in their heads like a mexican jumping bean: "Any minute now I will leap up & start growing."

  11. Adrian 11

    Luxon never has any idea about what he speaks about. During the election campaign at aNational supporter owned Marlborough vineyard he was publicly rebuked by the owner/ manager when Luxon said Marlborough was going to double its production capacity under his government. He was told very directly that the future goal was quality not quantity as most of the usable land was in production and the water allocation was strictly governed to assure conservation in dryer years. Basicly, he’s a bloody idiot.

    • Mike the Lefty 11.1

      The way he suavely promised to lower the cost of living for everyone at the last election, something he knew he couldn't (and didn't want to..) deliver and has still not been seriously challenged about it makes me feel that our media has the memory of a goldfish.

  12. Dennis Frank 12

    Climate and Nature Bill killed by UK Labour: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8xqv1l4qxno

    The government won a motion, by 120 votes to seven, to end debate of the bill, meaning it will not return to the House of Commons until July and is unlikely to become law. The Climate and Nature Bill had been proposed by Liberal Democrat MP Roz Savage – she said she would not push for a vote on the bill itself – she agreed to work with ministers to find a way forward.

    Green Party leader Carla Denyer said she was disappointed by the agreement and urged the government to "give us real commitments". Denyer told MPs Savage had agreed not to push for a vote "it seems, for just a meeting with the secretary of state for energy and net zero… with an agreement to work together but with no specific commitments". In reply Savage said she had been an environment campaigner for 20 years and had "tried placard waving" but now wanted to "take a policy approach".

    "As the third party, the only way we can do that is by working with the government."

    To make political progress, one must extend consensus. Protestors evade that constraint due to believing their task is to protest – not to co-create a better world.

    The House of Commons is an elected body consisting of 650 members of Parliament (MPs), 523 of which were too lazy to show up for the vote. Yet I doubt evidence will stop you believing in democracy. Habit rules forever.

    A Downing Street spokesperson said: "The UK already has a well-developed legislative framework with legally binding targets, including the Climate Change Act 2008 and the Carbon Budgets."

    The bill would have required the environment secretary to create and implement a strategy – with annual targets – to reduce its carbon dioxide emissions and reverse the degradation of nature. The strategy would be formulated in collaboration with a citizens' assembly – a group made up of members of the public. The bill also called for a more joined-up approach between tackling climate change and nature loss.

    Savage acknowledged that the UK had already signed up to "various international commitments" but said her bill aimed to close the "ambition gap between what is needed and what is promised, and the delivery gap between what is promised and what is actually happening".

    To her credit, the Lib-Dem advocate was trying to make real progress. Most politicians prefer a simulation (much easier) since you can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, which is all that democracy requires.

    Before becoming an MP, Savage rowed across the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian oceans to raise awareness of marine pollution.

    Heroic, huh? Quite a tiring way to raise awareness. Oodles of enterprise though.

    The bill also had support from two Conservative backbenchers, Sir Roger Gale and Simon Hoare, but the party's frontbench spokesman Andrew Bowie opposed it, specifically objecting to the role of the citizens' assembly. He said a government minister would be "legally bound" to follow proposals of the assembly's "unelected and unaccountable" members.

    Dumb bugger got that wrong, I reckon. Participatory democracy is a method of influence: the micro consensus informs the macro. Legislators get better law done.

    https://www.complexconversations.nz/citizens-assembly/ https://www.zerohour.uk/climate-and-nature-bill/

  13. Tony Veitch 13

    Is Trump mad, or bad – or a bit of both?

    Richard Murphy asks the question. An interesting analysis. 9 mins long.

    [deleted]

    • Macro 13.1

      Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it.

      William Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham 1770

      Trump never was very stable – a conscription dodger, a tax evader, a money launderer, a convicted felon, and amongst many other things, an habitual liar. And to top it all off, a mean spirited megalomaniac.

    • Tony Veitch 13.2

      Oops, I've done it again – linked to my email account – which is not at all interesting.

      Could a moderator please delete?

      This is the correct link!

    • Incognito 13.3

      done

    • Dennis Frank 13.4

      Bit of both. Animal cunning made him a bit of a hero to some, as a market player. Bankruptcies are seen as a rite of passage in yank culture, bit like coming off a bike when you're a kid morphing into coming off a motorbike & surviving later on. Street cred comes when you show you're back riding again. Then there's the warping effect of NYC business culture & surviving while becoming a key player in that social niche.

      Accounts of his family role (I've assimilated a bunch) indicate narcissism sourced in routine put-downs starting in the family matrix (his dad) – before he became heir to the empire. Whilst the madness is often evident, the delusionality often reflects his cultural niche in the overall matrix. Democracy selects leaders due to inherent traits, capacity to use power, tribal resonance etc. His demeanour since winning re-election has been most informative.

      As is his horoscope (map of birth potential) since he gave us reliable birth data. I was doing political astrology from mid-late '80s (still look at whatever major event has accurate timing attached). Someone selected to ultimate power by fate has configurations in their natal chart that correlate/explain why, but each is unique in complexity so an interpreter cannot generalise on the topic. Artistry kicks in at that point, yet empirical learning from each case study is still wise. I did mention once before onsite here a natal affliction of Trump's. A planet rising at birth is always auspicious (promoting identity) but in the 12th, square the meridian, it means that he's his own worst enemy. He has classic strength indicators too, as one would expect…

  14. Joe90 14

    Wtf is wrong with this prick.

    /

    A proposal to scrap the requirement for early childhood education (ECE) centres to keep immunisation records has been labelled a “health risk” by critics, but Regulation Minister David Seymour says it’s “putting a cost on centres with no benefit”.

    https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/360557306/proposal-scrap-ece-immunisation-records-irresponsible-critics-say

    • Macro 14.1

      Power corrupts. We have regulations around child care for a good reason. We do not need any more Minnie Deans. Yes an extreme example – but it was because of that, the regulations came into being in the first place.

    • tWig 14.2

      Not content with sccoping up Nat's racists, Seymour's going after NZF's anti-vaxxers.

      • joe90 14.2.1

        Or he's engaging in a tRumpian effort to deliberately destroy the nation’s health and science infrastructure.

  15. Stephen D 15

    All ECE should be free and under the auspices of the MoEd.

  16. Muttonbird 16

    Mental stuff from right wing, National Party aligned, NZME journalist, Fran O'sullivan:

    It's RWNJ bingo; 'pro-abortion lobby', 'woke virus', 'loss of trust in media', 'left-wing claims', 'biological reality', 'erasure of sex', 'definition of a woman!'

    This cloistered cow literally begs the media to go easy on the coalition, complaining:

    In my view, it contributes to a loss of trust in media – particularly among those who have an appreciation for the challenges Governments and businesses face in a fast-changing world.

    I cannot remember her giving the same consideration to the previous government, one which didn't tank the economy like this one has.

    Fran's column is a desperate diatribe which proves she is wholey partisan and biased herself, something she has the chutzpah to accuse the rest of her colleagues of.

    Next team meeting at the Herald should be interesting. I hope she gets fired.

    https://archive.is/2mOM3

    • Muttonbird 16.1

      She referenced by name, first and last, Simeon Brown, Christopher Luxon, Elon Musk, Donald Trump, Benjamin Netanyahu, Winston Peters, Javier Milei, Giogia Meloni, Nayib Bukele, and Viktor Orban…

      … but couldn't muster the same reverence for Chris Hipkins, who was only referred to as the Opposition leader.

      Fran O'sullivan is a turd that needs to be flushed.

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