Open mike 25/09/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, September 25th, 2019 - 196 comments
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196 comments on “Open mike 25/09/2019 ”

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  1. aom 1
    25 September 2019 at 7:32 am

    Here we go again: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116055224/jacinda-ardern-feted-abroad-but-emissions-trading-scheme-extension-in-trouble-at-home. The PM is trying to sell NZ agricultural products to the world by praising the progressive element of the farming sector who are working to reduce GH gasses in the production chain. Meanwhile, she is being stymied by naysayers, intransigents, vote grabbers and a media and opposition that depict her as a proxy sexual abuser.

    • MickeyBoyle 1.1
      25 September 2019 at 3:08 pm

      All good in defending Ardern, but are those commentators actually wrong?

      [lprent: Of course they’re wrong. While there are a lot of dimwits who subscribe to the great all-seeing dictator theory of management, I’ve never ever seen anyone ever managing it. You’d have to be a complete and utter fool to even think that.. This is probably about as close as you’re going to get to it.

      Now lets go back and actually hear your ‘opinion’ perhaps you could explain your theory on it so I can explain why I think that you’re wrong, query the source you parroted it from and spit on your intellect in robust debate. 

      However that will be a week away. Banned for a week so you can figure out the following.

      I see you try this standard troll tactic again, I will boot you off the site permanently. This site is here for your opinions, not for you to play dumbarse debating team / trolling tactical games on it.

      I don’t like trolls ]

  2. marty mars 2
    25 September 2019 at 7:56 am

    this whole Inquiry is like the shit they are investigating – so sad they are getting it wrong on such an important area. Time to walk the walk minister

    Internal Affairs Minister Tracey Martin has refused to express confidence in the leadership of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care, after it was revealed a convicted child sex offender was involved.

    …Since its establishment, the Royal Commission has been heavily criticised for how it is operating. That includes appointing a gang member into a key role, using survivors for trial or pilot interviews, claims chair Sir Anand Satyanand fell asleep while a survivor told their story and accusations commissioners shut down questions on potential conflicts of interest.

    Sir Anand announced last month he was stepping down from the job.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/399495/royal-commission-minister-s-confidence-has-been-shaken

    • greywarshark 2.1
      25 September 2019 at 9:54 am

      The gang member chosen is I understand someone who has faced up to his own misdeeds and understands the dynamic so is good value. Pity that many politicians who are guilty of bad actions of all sorts don't own up to them, and turn round and try to improve the situation for the people ane the country. People who declare themselves pure of all stain, have never moved from their easy chair.

      • marty mars 2.1.1
        25 September 2019 at 10:03 am

        It's pretty basic stuff imo – you don't get it.

        • greywarshark 2.1.1.1
          25 September 2019 at 10:12 am

          I am not sure that you do either. You are just so sure that you know it all there is no room for any other thought to circulate.

          • weka 2.1.1.1.1
            25 September 2019 at 10:23 am

            The problem here is the connection between gangs and sexual assault. It's not simply about whether the gang member has made amends, it's about whether the survivors feel safe. This should be the priority.

            In this case, complaints have been made about his current behaviour, so his 'good value' is undermined by that.

            • greywarshark 2.1.1.1.1.1
              25 September 2019 at 12:19 pm

              Edit:
              Uh-huh. Sounds as if his presence may be disturbing at present, and if a young woman has been attacked she isn't going to feel comfortable seeing a similar guy to the attacker in the panel or even in the room.

              However he would be useful in later discussions after the victims have given evidence and got some comfort from that. He would be invaluable to give background about the sexual behaviour that he has observed, and why and how it happens that way, and his opinions on improving the situation.

              I think NZ is embarrassed about sex and there should be discussions about it on a medical and social discussion level to try and get a balanced view about sexual matters. We need to think about it and progress, it is a public health thing, and we owe it to each other and our children to have clear guidelines that fit our modern world which seems to have past rigid attitudes and prudishness lingering. We need to respectfully treat the matter, as important to all for relationship health, and to mental health and understanding of our drives as humans.

              Do people generally know about the way that young people go about their first sexual experience? Is there open discussion about sexual matters, so basic to us all? What do girls think about it, what do boys? There should be discussions as part of sexual education at school, or run by Primary Health nurses, and should be in a mixed group with appropriate professionals or community leaders leading the discussion. There might be a model discussion videoed that parents could watch to see and understand the value of this.

              Guidelines for behaviour formed by agreement between the participants after discussion, would go a long way to preventing feelings of being pushed to participate and talking about the misunderstandings that could lead either gender to believe that it was okay to push ahead because it would be enjoyable in the end, or some such reason.

              I apologise to anyone who thinks that the whole matter should be screened off and the less said the better. I think that has led us to where we are now, just as I think that being obsessed with sex and talking about it a lot, casually, is also in appropriate. It should be a special personal thing, 'Not Given Lightly'. Balance is all.

              • weka …
                25 September 2019 at 12:55 pm

                Don't know what you are trying to say there, but the inquiry is about the state's responsibility for children in its care who were abused (sexually, physically, emotionally). This isn't about sex and sexuality, it's about abuse. That you conflate the two renders your opinion on what is appropriate in the inquiry irrelevant.

                There is a concept of trauma-informed or clinically-informed process. It exists because when put into practice it gives the best wellbeing outcomes for people who have been harmed. The inquiry has failed on that in a number of ways. The complaints against the gang member are about his behaviour and how that has affected the inquiry in a number of roles. His expertise can't trump that.

                With regard to the issue of women not trusting a gang member, the inquiry should have managed that so he wasn't in a role where that would be an issue. Again, trauma-informed process matters and creates better outcomes.

              • Treetop …
                27 September 2019 at 8:06 am

                I saw your comment and have thought about since it was made.

                Try and listen to Insight this Sunday just after 8am on RNZ. Part of the reason is cyber abuse and predatory tourists.

                Parents /grandparents needs to be educated on how to keep a child safe and a child needs to known what is grooming and what is unsafe contact from an adult.

                Governments need to take sexual exploitation seriously both online and tourism.

                I have not commented on the safety of adults.

                A complex subject.

          • marty mars 2.1.1.1.2
            25 September 2019 at 10:26 am

            I think you need to have a think about why this Inquiry is being set up in the first place – it is about the innocent victims abused and treated like shit – which apparently continues, in the form of the way this Inquiry is going, to date imo

            • greywarshark 2.1.1.1.2.1
              25 September 2019 at 12:27 pm

              Sorry marty mars – I do understand that I had suggested something inappropriate at the first. It seems the heariang should be divided into two – first the victims and then better approaches to ensure respect of both genders for each other's emotional nature. I have tried to explain how I feel that things could be done afterwards to lead to less of this sort of trauma happening in the future.

              • marty mars …
                25 September 2019 at 12:31 pm

                I'm sorry too – I know you are engaging with comments and working hard to put stuff up and debate it – I can be a bit 'shoot first ask questions later' type which is irritating I know.

    • Treetop 2.2
      25 September 2019 at 12:46 pm

      The purpose of the Royal Commission is to give a voice to the now adults who were children in social welfare care and in faith based care. To exclude anyone who is entitled to be there is to do them a disservice, example a convicted pedophile who was sexually assaulted while in social welfare care.

      The Royal Commission needs to establish what the outcome/impact is from an individual's experience of being mistreated and harmed.

      Everyone appearing before the Royal Commission need to feel secure about the process.

      There are some gaps in the Royal Commission which require immediate action.

      • marty mars 2.2.1
        25 September 2019 at 12:50 pm

        "The man was at gatherings around the meetings because he was with his partner, Mr Gibson said.

        Advisory group member Jane Stevens told Morning Report she was staggered the group was not informed and was feeling physically sick at the revelation.

        "That is probably one of the worst possible scenarios for people who've been through abuse. I'm horrified," she said.

        "I don't believe it's good enough for it to be treated as a learning, because I do feel re-victimised."

        From the link above

        • Treetop 2.2.1.1
          25 September 2019 at 12:53 pm

          I was not being specific.

          Did your hear what Sonja Cooper said on Morning Report?

          Read my last paragraph 2.2

          • marty mars 2.2.1.1.1
            25 September 2019 at 12:56 pm

            no I haven't

            I just wish the focus was REALLY on the victims and their trauma and not some process which may or may not be – but certainly will be traumatic.

            This abuse and terror is happening today in this country – it has to fucken stop.

            • Treetop 2.2.1.1.1.1
              25 September 2019 at 2:02 pm

              Many many people are going to feel the affects of the Royal Commission.

              Being accountable to a person (especially a child) for behaviour which was condoned and should never have been, is a starting point.

  3. phillip ure 3
    25 September 2019 at 8:46 am

    british labour party conference has just pledged to 'de-carbonise' britain by 2030..

    which makes that local carbon neutral by 2050 ambition – look kinda underwhelming..eh..?

  4. A 4
    25 September 2019 at 8:54 am

    Hey, just a repeat post from last night…if anyone else knows of a group of people pushing for the WEAG recommendations to be implemented can you pls let us know.

    I think for now we have given up on AAAP

  5. The Al1en 5
    25 September 2019 at 9:12 am

    So Hoskins and Garner think Greta is “hot air and the new Jacinda" and "over played her hand at the un" well that's all okay then 🙄

    Garner says if climate change is so bad, why aren't adults doing anything about it? Well wasn't that the point the kid was making?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12270668

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/duncan-garner-dramatic-greta-thunberg-sends-counterproductive-message.html

    What arseharts, the pair of them.

    • Hongi Ika 5.1
      25 September 2019 at 9:21 am

      Horeskin and Garner are Natzi paid shrills trying to destroy Jacinda's reputation by making these types of comparisons, the problem is the RWNJ's will start believing these guys as most New Zealanders are sheep who can not think for themselves and believe MSM ?

    • Hongi Ika 5.2
      25 September 2019 at 9:22 am

      Horeskin and Garner are not adults IMHO ?

    • gsays 5.3
      25 September 2019 at 9:23 am

      You can add Sean Plunkett to your list of backside bowler-hats.

    • Poission 5.4
      25 September 2019 at 9:38 am

      Greta says she is a very happy young girl,looking forward to a bright and wonderful future.

    • aom 5.5
      25 September 2019 at 9:58 am

      What deadbeats – beating up on a kid! No doubt they are put out because all their ranting and raving hasn't had a scratch of the influence of a 15 year old who quietly and respectfully sat outside the Swedish Parliament with a placard on Fridays.

      • marty mars 5.5.1
        25 September 2019 at 10:30 am

        yep they disgrace themselves so effortlessly – their behaviour shows why they need to go – bullythickshakes with the emphasis on thick

    • greywarshark 5.6
      25 September 2019 at 10:00 am

      What's new? Not worth the effort to write criticising the 'boys'.

      I suggest any outrage you feel uses energy that is precious that could be applied elsewhere. Wallowing in outrage is so satisfying but getting into the support works and the promotion of new ways and the thinking of who and what is being hurt by climate change and political maltreatment is ongoing hard labour.

  6. gsays 6
    25 September 2019 at 9:16 am

    RNZ are reporting the US Congress leader Nancy Pelosis have announced a formal investigation with a view to impeach the president.

    Apparently it is based on an anonymous whistleblower allegations, that link Trump personally gaining political favour, by having investigations in the Ukraine linking Biden to the baddies.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/399542/trump-ukraine-row-democrats-launch-trump-impeachment-inquiry

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4kTnP5VJ1k

    My very amateur hunch is that if this goes ahead, rather than sink trump, it will embolden him and strengthen his voter support. The Dems will think they have their trump card (boom boom!) and Trump can continue to Fake News!, obfuscate and fib.

    • Andre 6.1
      25 September 2019 at 9:43 am

      Yeah, it's quite the conundrum for the Dems.

      On one hand, Don of the Deadbrains has been in impeachable violation of his constitutional obligations from the moment of of his inauguration, and has been vigorously adding to his rap sheet ever since. He has made it abundantly clear he's quite happy to betray his country if he thinks there's personal benefit to be had. So if the Dems don't impeach him, they're basically surrendering their oversight and accountability obligations and the power of impeachment becomes meaningless. Also, there may be political benefit in publicising the wrongdoing that's been done and forcing Repugs into a yes or no vote.

      On the other hand, removing the Mango Mugabe from office via impeachment simply ain't gonna happen. There's an absolute minimum of 20 Repug senators that would have to vote for conviction. But watching what happened to Mark Sanford, Jeff Flake and the very few other elected Repugs that spoke against the mandarin manutang has dissolved whatever vestigial spines and principles they may have once possessed.

      Hell, even after a successful impeachment in the House, Moscow Mitch might just Garland the trial in the Senate and thereby spare Repug senators from having to even cast an uncomfortable vote. I certainly haven't yet seen any language in the constitution compelling the Senate to hold the trial, whereas the language requiring the Senate to consider Merrick Garland's nomination was quite clear, yet Moscow Mitch got away with just blowing off that constitutional obligation.

      So yeah, there's the risk that impeaching Hair Furor in the House without a conviction and removal from office by the Senate might be viewed by enough of the electorate as stupid partisan political games and backfire on the Dems.

      • greywarshark 6.1.1
        25 September 2019 at 10:08 am

        Andre

        That was beautifully written – a triumph of good political analysis in popular slang and malapropisms?

      • gsays 6.1.2
        25 September 2019 at 10:09 am

        Great analysis, Adrian. My reckons have a small % following this with enthusiasm, some thinking this will sink the Hysterical Hairdo and for the majority, it will barely register.

        BTW do you have a Trump name generator app? The Mango Mugabe caused an involuntary snort.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 6.1.3
        25 September 2019 at 11:29 am

        Great comment; informative and entertaining – particularly liked this, which might be more widely applicable:

        "… has dissolved whatever vestigial spines and principles they may have once possessed."

    • Anne 6.2
      25 September 2019 at 10:27 am

      It looks like the Dems may have evidence yet to be released:

      It appears that a lot of additional information about the Ukraine affair is about to come to light. The House intelligence committee has announced that the whistleblower wishes to testify, and could do so as early as this week, meaning that the public could soon learn the details of the allegations against Trump – and see what evidence there is.

      Oops: I can’t find the link address. It was a Guardian news item which appears to have disappeared or been incorporated into another story. Sorry.

      • marty mars 6.2.1
        25 September 2019 at 11:14 am

        yep – I can't imagine they have gone this way without some big gotchas – I don't think the teflon turnipturd will be bothered though – he just turns it around by lying

        • gsaysH 6.2.1.1
          25 September 2019 at 11:26 am

          Hi Marty, Anne, things like modern politics have less and less to do with evidence and truth. Witness the British Prime Minister illegally and unlawfully dissolving parliament.

          I don't doubt that there is damning evidence but that doesn't matter if the perception of the great unwashed differs from the narrative.

          eg CC is no problem because we have 'clean coal', I heard the president say so a few times.

          Equally, I have little faith in the Dems making hay from this.

          Akin to Hilary being a sure bet, she will win because she is experienced, it's her turn, she is a woman….

        • Anne 6.2.1.2
          25 September 2019 at 11:32 am

          Yes.

          Within 24 hrs of the "wonderful" (Trump's words) meeting with Ardern he has:

          1) Ruled out any tightening of gun laws in the US.

          2) Refused to sign the US up to the Christchurch Call and has made a speech at the UN denouncing the attempt by technological companies to curtail free speech.

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/399543/donald-trump-warns-about-social-media-platforms-acquiring-immense-power

    • McFlock 6.4
      25 September 2019 at 2:22 pm

      Worst case: the terms of the investigation are too narrow, charges go to Senate, and the repugs exonerate him. Re-election 2020.

      Best case: he gets investigated, it takes until november 2020 but the dirt getting exposed is so overwhelming that it scuppers his re-election bid. And then federal and state charges are laid January 2021. He spends the last years of his life shafting his lawyers' attempts to have him ruled incompetent to stand trial.

      Middle-worst case: senate convicts him, president pence gets elected as a spiritual cleanser.

      Middle case: whether or not he gets convicted or re-elected, New York State does him for tax fraud.

    • xanthe 6.5
      25 September 2019 at 5:04 pm

      I cant figure out what the dems think will happen here

      They cant seriously think impeachment will fly so it must be a set up for the next election. its just crazy,, this will solidify Trumps support

      The only rational explanation is that they are completely irrational

      It still hasn't occurred to them that they could use a democratic process to get the best candidate and then actually win on merit!…

      or is that idea just too radical

    • mauī 6.6
      25 September 2019 at 8:52 pm

      So after flailing round for 3 years the Dems think they've finally got their man by saying he's obstructing aid. Oh the irony! Let's see if this has opened the door for Iran, Venuezuela and N Korea to launch their own impeachment proceedings too lol.

      Giuliani seems to know what this is all about…

  7. Hongi Ika 7
    25 September 2019 at 9:23 am

    Horeskin and Garner are not adults IMHO ?

  8. greywarshark 8
    25 September 2019 at 9:51 am

    A lot of Maori men are in prison, but while a lot is made of the percentage to population, they are still a minority to pakeha and tauiwi extremely unpleasant criminals. Have a look at the s.itheads in this nasty murder case. Should these men when babies have been taken from their parents? What sort of parental methods result in adult outcomes who will never realise their potential to be a great, happy, admirable person? Would parental classes for both young people which would come connected to a fortnightly child assistance payment to them, get them on a positive line of child rearing and understanding how to cope and manage through stresses, and be co-operative.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/399497/murderers-told-victim-to-dig-his-own-grave

  9. mac1 9
    25 September 2019 at 10:01 am

    From the "I am not a believer in conspiracy" files.

    On Sunday I visited another town in my EV. While having it recharged at a public facility. I went for a walk with my wife for a block a way and went through a car yard I had visited two years ago while searching for an EV to buy. There were no staff as the yard was closed.

    Today on Facebook there is a specific ad on my Facebook Home page from the very car yard that I visited.

    Coincidence? It's a startling thing.

    Is there a possibility that facial recognition technology from a security camera is at play here? That my very basic cell phone is being tracked? That my car rego was noted when I drove past twenty minutes later? That my EV's electronic key in my pocket was somehow 'discovered'?

    Or is it just coincidence and some very targeted advertising based on my facebook activity and previous purchase? As the saying goes, coincidence occurs only when we can't see the levers and pulleys.

    I guess I am really asking for comment from wiser technology-savvy heads about how deep intrusion in our lives is based on tracking our personal information?

    • weka 9.1
      25 September 2019 at 10:19 am

      assuming you are in NZ I would guess it's either a semi-coincidence (based on targeted advertising from other activity), or it's your phone or credit card usage.

      If your phone is a smart phone you can turn location services off.

      FB will be using your IP address to target advertising, so if you have FB on your phone it will know your general area by how you connect to the internet.

      I don't know what happens with EVs, but it's worth checking if it's the EV's GPS. You could ask the manufacturer for details on what the tech is in your car and if it's connected to online services.

      I would be very surprised if this was facial recognition, we're not there yet in NZ afaik.

    • Adrian 9.2
      25 September 2019 at 10:42 am

      According to David Spiegelhalter in The Art Of Statistics there is no such thing as coincidence, its just a matter of mathematics. "Connected "people, the sort who talk to others a lot, and I know you are one mate, find more coincidences simply because they have a lot more information and contacts. Yes, it looks suspicious but as you say you have been online looking at EV sites, also you were in this specific town using cards etc which ramps up the coincidence possibilities. If you had not gone there would the pop up have happened the next day. Who knows ? . It may simply be the act of paying for the charge up in the vicinity and the webby thing did the rest.

      Its disturbing this bullshit which is why I have stared paying for everything with pebbles.

      So Mac1 if I don''t come back from the bar with my round on Friday night its because I've been thrown out on my arse.

    • mac1 9.3
      25 September 2019 at 11:13 am

      Thanks, Weka and Adrian. The EV's GPS still thinks it's in Japan. I’m in NZ as Adrian knows.

      My cell has a FB icon but I've never used it or set it up.

      I did get e-mail acknowledgements immediately of my use of public chargers but would FB know that? That charger also accessed my bank account and was my only credit card use on that trip.

      So as you say, Adrian, it might be a webby thing……. perhaps I should adopt your payment method using the asparagus coming out of my ears at the moment.

      • gsays 9.3.1
        25 September 2019 at 12:40 pm

        When I return to work after 3 days off, I am often prompted to offer a review of my hospitality place of work. I have put it down to the location tracker jobbie in my Whoarewe phone.

        This in no way makes me think we are under-survielled and spied upon excessively.

      • xanthe 9.3.2
        25 September 2019 at 3:17 pm

        you dont use google maps?

      • weka 9.3.3
        25 September 2019 at 3:45 pm

        you can delete FB off your phone.

        "I did get e-mail acknowledgements immediately of my use of public chargers but would FB know that?"

        Was that a gmail account?

        Might want to check the TOS for the charger.

      • lprent 9.3.4
        25 September 2019 at 4:02 pm

        Location services and the apple equivalent is a generic facility on your cell phone. I haven't looked at it too recently, but it uses GPS, wifi, cell towers, and even near field or blue tooth to try to increase the accuracy of its fix – especially when you are indoors and the GPS signal sucks.

        It is also something that quite a lot of apps access, everything from google maps to various other systems that read location information and sell it directly or indirectly to advertisers.

    • Cricklewood 9.4
      25 September 2019 at 2:55 pm

      If it's capable a 3g net connection google will be following you around. Need to turn that off, also downloaded any apps? Plenty of them capture location data and sell it back for advertising purposes.

    • A 9.5
      25 September 2019 at 3:22 pm

      Hi there,

      Yep they use all of the things you mentioned. Sometimes car yards/shops use beacons which push messages to your phone (if you have this enabled and didn't realise you could turn it off it would freak you out).

      • weka 9.5.1
        25 September 2019 at 3:43 pm

        who is using face recognition that they sell to FB?

      • joe90 9.5.2
        25 September 2019 at 4:04 pm

        I'll be watching you
        Every move you make
        Every step you take
        I'll be watching you

        Bluetooth beacons, however, can track your location accurately from a range of inches to about 50 meters. They use little energy, and they work well indoors. That has made them popular among companies that want precise tracking inside a store.

        Most people aren’t aware they are being watched with beacons, but the “beacosystem” tracks millions of people every day. Beacons are placed at airports, malls, subways, buses, taxis, sporting arenas, gyms, hotels, hospitals, music festivals, cinemas and museums, and even on billboards.

        https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluetooth-wireless-tracking-privacy.html

        • weka 9.5.2.1
          25 September 2019 at 4:27 pm

          paywalled out for this month. Are the beacons the bluetooth tracking or something separate?

          • joe90 9.5.2.1.1
            25 September 2019 at 4:38 pm

            Alternative link to the article.

            http://archive.li/6sbMl

            The beacons connect with your phone to gather data.

            The Guardian Firewall team has discovered that a growing number of iOS apps have been used to covertly collect precise location histories from tens of millions of mobile devices, using packaged code provided by data monetization firms. In many cases, the packaged tracking code may run at all times, constantly sending user GPS coordinates and other information.

            In order to gain initial access to precise data from the mobile device’s GPS sensors, the apps usually present a plausible justification relevant to the app in the Location Services permission dialog, often with little or no mention of the fact that location data will be shared with third-party entities for purposes unrelated to app operation.

            All location data monetization firms listed on this page collect one or more of the following data points:

            • Bluetooth LE Beacon Data
            • GPS Longitude and Latitude
            • Wi-Fi SSID (Network Name) and BSSID (Network MAC Address)

            In addition, some firms also collect the following types of less sensitive device information:

            • Accelerometer Information (X-axis, Y-axis, Z-axis)
            • Advertising Identifier (IDFA)
            • Battery Charge Percentage and Status (Battery or USB Charger)
            • Cellular Network MCC/MNC
            • Cellular Network Name
            • GPS Altitude and/or Speed
            • Timestamps for departure/arrival to a location

            https://guardianapp.com/research/ios-app-location-report-sep2018/

    • lprent 9.6
      25 September 2019 at 3:57 pm

      Most likely to be location services on your cellphone is turned on.

  10. greywarshark 10
    25 September 2019 at 10:17 am

    The Australian government, along with the RW of Australians, will steal the gold fillings from our teeth if they find they need them.

    At present we are defending the manuka honey business that we have been working to build.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/399537/millions-poured-to-ensure-manuka-honey-is-a-nz-only-product

  11. greywarshark 11
    25 September 2019 at 10:21 am

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/399398/tractor-protest-farmers-concerned-by-rush-of-reforms

    The protest took place in the township of Ruawai, at the northern end of Kaipara Harbour.

    Between 120 and 150 farmers turned up, most of them by tractor.

    They said a suite of measures, zero carbon legislation, the latest water plan and the Billion Trees Programme could force some of them off their land.

    The Mayor of Kaipara, Jason Smith, said it was a quiet protest but with a strong message.

    "They weren't tooting horns, there was no loud noise, people were standing around in solidarity, just being concerned (about the future)," Dr Smith said.

    Another Dr Smith!

    • David Mac 11.1
      25 September 2019 at 10:33 am

      The Kaipara Harbour is NZ's largest by area. There are many acres of farmland surrounding it and it's tributaries. As more pressure comes to bear against farmers adjacent to waterways, I think the Kaipara region will become a hotbed of discontent.

      I think the strongest protest they could mount would revolve around showcasing farmers that are going the extra enviro mile. We all support those guys.

      • greywarshark 11.1.1
        25 September 2019 at 11:10 am

        Edit
        We do indeed, and should be helping others up by their bootstraps. All is not won though as i have heard of farmers watching their stock eat down the greenery, flaxes, and then stepping past it to get to the stream. So vigilance is required for effectiveness even once measures to remediate pollution are taken.

        I understand that Kaipara has had a lot of run off into the estuary? So it is in farmers interest to keep their top soil, and also to keep the estuary water in good health, because I think it is a place for growing spat as a business? Isn't that also where they had the great sewerage fixing bill? It seems there is a lot to do, so just getting together to protest would be not being real men. Getting together to form working groups helping each other for the good of the whole, as well as to meet the government requirements that have been needed for probably two decades or longer. The problems have not shown up suddenly, out of the blue.

        And not to be overlooked is the effect of sea rise. I think that it is flat around Kaipara, so the farmers can huddle around a map showing projections of where the sea will rise and how it will affect them. Perhaps dredging and building up sand and mud dunes on which they could plant mangrove or such that would be good fish spawning cover for young fish. That would help to take some of the brunt of waves in storms.

        They might get help on their streams from the Environment River Patrol Aotearoa NZ which Milan Ruka has been behind. He has been doing more stuff than the farmers about water and environment health and might have some tips.

  12. greywarshark 12
    25 September 2019 at 10:38 am

    I've thought of a word to describe some of the regular commenters here – CAN'T (Carpers and Negative Controllers) and they attempt to shut down discussion, either deliberately or in the nit-picking way they treat others comments.

    While it may not be ad hominem comment, it is slanted to give the commenter the feeling that their comment from their mind has nothing to say of relevance and therefore the person is mindless, ignorant, and for many people this is the same as an ad hominem in its effect. Obsessed people may continue to arise despite, but for those concerned for a wider discussion covering all topics it is greatly disheartening.

    The reply to the comment will not build on it adding more background, it will not simply correct a mistake. The comment will be dumped on as wrongly quoted, the syntax is wrong, some figures wrong and so the whole comment is useless to consider, and it shows a mind uninformed and with nothing to add to the superior understanding of the person who responds. Wrong, wrong, wrong, so buzz off you inferior person. That's the message and the end result to many, while the lords, mainly I think, of the internet roll on flattening the poppies who might otherwise have got tall before they were attacked.

    In other words the message is 'You 'Can't' say anything of importance or helpful – why bother.'

    • David Mac 12.1
      25 September 2019 at 11:01 am

      I try to put my comments to the table test before clicking Submit Comment.

      'Would I use the same words if I was sitting across the table from the person I'm responding to?'

      I wonder if people that feel the need to dominate and seed confrontation in a discussion on an anon message board lead somewhat different lives in the real world.

      • greywarshark 12.1.1
        25 September 2019 at 11:25 am

        I wonder. But I get concerned at the lack of participation in this blog from lefties. I wonder if they lose heart. Times are tough and work hours or making do is demanding. But learning while you are going is not wasted time and just raising a query and some ideas and getting response is heartening. If the response is a sneer not. If it is a little query about meaning or the need to put source, or show opinion one way and quote okay. But encouragement is primary rather than scholastic lessons or entrenched opinion coming down on you.

        There are some great people out there so those who seem to want to dominate, go schtum. Let it pass, ask for more info. Try to love other people's reaching up for understanding, communication, togetherness. There are some people who I am very wary of, anyone who tries to love and trust all others is unwise, but let's try to find How to get There…?

        • weka 12.1.1.1
          25 September 2019 at 12:01 pm

          I replied to your question about comment formatting here https://thestandard.org.nz/the-climate-action-momentum/#comment-1656997

        • gsays 12.1.1.2
          25 September 2019 at 12:45 pm

          "There are some people who I am very wary of, anyone who tries to love and trust all others is unwise,…"

          I am curious, why do you think it is unwise to try and love all?

          So often I find, first needing to understand the other before I can hope to be understood by them.

          • greywarshark 12.1.1.2.1
            25 September 2019 at 12:53 pm

            Since i read about the Exclusive Brethren leader who commented that a young man who was suicidal over the split between the cult and his family, would be better off dead, should take rat poison, I thought that I can't trust these people. And there were other features of their behaviour which when understood showed they can never be trusted and that applies to a number of cults.

            Going round being kind to all without wariness, is being naive sorry gsays – and over time you will find they often understand you very well and prefer to remain obscure themselves.

            You are starting to sound like a flower child from hippy times. I think loving all is OTT, trying to have goodwill to all with wariness is good, and helping where you can be kind and being friendly. When you find who to trust, and know the small number that you will ever understand the heart of, then love them. Just don't throw it away like tissues or easy tears, it is precious, there isn't a lot of the real thing around.

            • gsays 12.1.1.2.1.1
              25 September 2019 at 7:35 pm

              ahh.. conditional love.

              • greywarshark …
                25 September 2019 at 9:04 pm

                Love for those who deserve it, good will for those who deserve it, patient tolerance, disdain or disgust for those gone off track or beyond redemption. That says it I think. No need to hang social dictionary tags on it.

        • Gabby 12.1.1.3
          25 September 2019 at 8:49 pm

          That's some pretty pecksniffian stuff there grayzy.

      • lprent 12.1.2
        25 September 2019 at 4:43 pm

        I wonder if people that feel the need to dominate and seed confrontation in a discussion on an anon message board lead somewhat different lives in the real world.

        Not usually, however that is mostly because I tend to avoid arguing with people outside of online. It is obvious when you look at what happens on these kinds of forums.

        Arguing or even discussing things with other people often means that you need to be somewhat on a level playing field to get anything out of it. But conversations are usually one to few in real-life.

        Now I’m an extreme case. I have always had a really capacious memory, lots of CPU cycles, and a habit of thinking a lot about everything. Plus I have been continuously on the ‘social’ nets in some form or another since the mid-1980s BBSes and 90s usenet and have no interest in TV, sport, gossip and anything else that is essentially repetitive. And I never bother to compete or dominate with anyone – it is too easy to just leave them holding a some sinking island while I move on to something that is of interest to me. Plus I’m too damn arrogant to be concerned about what anyone else thinks of me.

        Which makes it rare for me to find someone who has anything that interesting or new to me. Which also means that there isn’t that much to argue about except work.

        But social networks and especially ones like this, you’re effectively talking to thousands of people at once with a bit of a lag. Yesterday on this site with a quiet day there were 2,784 distinct humans visited and read various posts and comments. 9,978 over the last 7 days**.

        That gives a much larger selection of people who can provide the grist for interesting disagreements. It is also self-selecting for people who can argue.

        So on here, even if I wasn’t having to moderate, my behaviour would change compared to IRL and has ever since I joined argument forums. I learn a hell of a lot just reading these forums. It is also why I’m also willing to expend time stomping on people who try to dilute the good arguments of a robust debate. The returns make it worthwhile.

        //————

        ** there will be some inaccuracy in that due to people not using cookies or having different ‘identities’ on different systems. However when I analysed it a while ago, the maximum inaccuracy on users was less than 10%. Some of them are single reads from search engines. However that is well less than 30% of all of the users. Something like 40% of users read the site multiple times per week.

        • weka 12.1.2.1
          25 September 2019 at 4:55 pm

          Is the 40% return users over the long term, or just the period you are looking at (eg a week)?

          "2,784 distinct humans visited and read various posts"

          Is the Unique Views, Users, Page Views, or something else?

          • lprent 12.1.2.1.1
            25 September 2019 at 8:59 pm

            That is the long-term average for a week.

            humans == Unique Users (at least as far as google can see).

            You can see this in the analytics summary in the dashboard. But reminds me that I'm on holiday for 5 days starting tonight. Google analytics coming your way.

            • weka 12.1.2.1.1.1
              25 September 2019 at 10:35 pm

              Sweet!

              The graph I'm looking at has Unique Views or Users (not Unique Users). Which one are you looking at?

              • weka …
                25 September 2019 at 10:36 pm

                hmm, ok, it's the Users then I think. Unique views might be some Users looking more than once.

              • lprent …
                26 September 2019 at 8:19 am

                Yep. You have to look at how google collects the information about users.

                If you look in the cookies on your system, you'll find tracking cookies from google and others. These come in if you're on gmail or logged in on chrome or any number of other things.

                What they also do is to allow google analytics to track user patterns. They do this by allocating a analytics number to everyone.

                You should have access to analytics now. If you look under Audience / User Explorer you can see the anonymised data looking at individual user stats. That gives a better idea of how it is done.

                • weka …
                  26 September 2019 at 10:13 am

                  😎 That should keep me busy.

                  • lprent …
                    26 September 2019 at 11:47 am

                    That is just play… 🙂

                    Just don't let it interfere with the serious business of writing posts. 🙁

                    yes

                    • weka …
                      26 September 2019 at 12:31 pm

                      lol, ok.

                      So many posts up today!

                    • lprent []
                      26 September 2019 at 12:49 pm

                      Yep. That happens.

                      I’m having a 5 day weekend to do some outstanding work at home. Procrastinating on working on web code rather than my favoured hard-core code inevitably results in me becoming more blog-active…

                      Oh well the weekend boss is dragging me off to lunch, so I’d expect that there will be an expectation of less blog and more work on her site.

        • sumsuch 12.1.2.2
          26 September 2019 at 12:30 am

          You're a strange man, lprent. Though magisterial about computer shit. For which I thank you.

          • lprent 12.1.2.2.1
            26 September 2019 at 8:12 am

            I'd agree and I have known this for many years.

            • sumsuch 12.1.2.2.1.1
              27 September 2019 at 11:04 pm

              Hope you're well. I just aren't for the Labour Party. Since you know when. When they combined with the strong. When I logically knew them to be in the wrong. In my young age.

  14. greywarshark 14
    25 September 2019 at 11:01 am

    This academic gets his points across well and is interesting on Brit and the unlawful decision against Boorish's pro-rogueing.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018714767/supreme-court-biggest-constitutional-mic-drop-in-50-yrs

    The British Supreme Court has ruled that the decision by the British prime minister Boris Johnson to prorogue or suspend parliament for five-weeks was unlawful. Dr Dean Knight is the co-director of the New Zealand Centre of Public Law at Victoria University and spoke to Corin Dann about the case from London.

  15. marty mars 15
    25 September 2019 at 11:05 am

    A good read and nuance regarding trudeau. Worth noting for our progressives here I'd say

    Progressives must get better at calling out double standards instead of constantly being manipulated by them. However, we must take a critical look at selective outrage in liberal circles, too. Trudeau’s blackface photos are awful; there is no way you could look away from them. But there has been a lot of looking away by some progressives regarding Trudeau’s problematic policies and less in-your-face bigotry. Trudeau has defended arms sales to Saudi Arabia, one of the world’s worst human rights violators. He has approved an oil pipeline expansion opposed by many environmental and Indigenous groups. He has publicly belittled Indigenous activists. He has violated ethics laws. He has avoided questions about whether a Liberal government would comply with a human rights tribunal ruling ordering compensation for First Nations children.

    Trudeau is no monster; he has spent the past few years upholding refugee rights in Canada and should be commended for it. But he has also spent years basking in a progressive image he doesn’t deserve. For too long, too many people have given him too many passes, preferring to focus on his feelgood soundbites rather than interrogate his less-than-feelgood actions. But the current controversy has made the poster boy of progressivism’s ugly side impossible to ignore.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/24/trudeau-blackface-photos-awful-so-many-policies-arwa-mahdawi

    • Drowsy M. Kram 15.1
      25 September 2019 at 12:19 pm

      This comment on Mahdawi's opinion article offers an interesting point of view. As I read it I found myself thinking about the political and public reaction to Metiria Turei's 2017 admission of benefit fraud some 25 years earlier at ~22 years of age – NZ lost an excellent MP over that.

      I'm not comparing Trudeau to Turei (there are so many differences), but the effects of self-destructive tendencies in the progressive left are worth reflecting on before going full tilt, IMHO.

      "At times, it really surprises me how we have any progressive governments at all. The right cheerfully conducts itself with a lack of shame, self awareness and responsibility. The left subjects itself to a neurotic level of self scrutiny and as each historical mistake or social faux pas comes to light, the evil perpetrator is fed to the howling wolves of Twitter. In other words, rightwingers have no need to undermine the left when the left is quite capable of kicking itself in the balls.

      Does this mean we stop holding people to account? No – its only through being aware of our flaws that we improve as people. What is *desperately* needed is proportionality and the capacity to forgive. If we keep nailing leftwing politicians up every time they make a mistake then the right will continue to get louder and stronger because they have something the left doesn't – unity. And unity wins votes."

      • marty mars 15.1.1
        25 September 2019 at 12:38 pm

        I found this paragraph in the article to be telling

        The right gets incredibly worked up about social justice issues when there is an opportunity to use them for political gain. Just look at the bad-faith way in which US Republicans have weaponised antisemitism to attack Ilhan Omar and curtail criticism of the Israeli government, while ignoring or even stoking antisemitism in their own ranks. Look at how outraged about sexual harassment Donald Trump got when the person accused of it was the Democratic senator Al Franken. You almost have to admire the right for being so shamelessly hypocritical.

        For me the left reflexive defensive cos someone is a 'good' person or done 'good things' is the real problem. Own it, accept it, try to change it and then get on with it. Defend it or blame the others for being worse and other tactics really do feed the right. They don't need feeding – they need starving and you do that by sorting shit out fast and you do that imo by owning it, being a grown up and doing something about it and then moving on.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 15.1.1.1
          25 September 2019 at 1:36 pm

          "Own it, accept it, try to change it and then get on with it." – good advice, and I wonder what more Trudeau could do now to address the hurt and allay concerns about the choices he made some years before becoming a politician.

          Could Canada do better than Trudeau as PM – yes (IMHO). But will they?

  16. Peter 16
    25 September 2019 at 11:08 am

    Hats off to Simon Bridges. I admire the consistency with which he depicts himself as the village idiot and the certainty he has that the rest of us are too.

    The news just had him as saying Tracey Martin should have been more hands on in the Royal Commission into historical abuse in state care.

    I must admit my disappointment that he hasn't called for the resignation of Jacinda Ardern over the situation which has arisen with the Commission. Oh well, maybe tomorrow or when she gets back in the country he'll be singing that tune.

    • David Mac 16.1
      25 September 2019 at 11:34 am

      The whipping Bridges has been receiving from all quarters must be taking a toll. The most confident of battlers eventually gets driven to stepping aside.

      Bridges' repeated deadpan delivery of the same answered question in the house yesterday was the work of a broken man.

      Martin answered his 'What are you doing about a pedo on the board?' question straight out of the gate.

      "You're a lawyer, you know it's illegal for an MP to have any influence over a Royal Commission."

      On and on Bridges went with his prepared supps. I thought Martin was masterful…mistressful?? The temptation to say "I've already answered that." must of been strong. She went into the rare circumstances under which an MP could influence the Royal Enquiry. She had obviously studied the situation closely.

      Still Bridges ground on with questions she had answered in finite detail.

      I guess they're stuck with him for the 2020 election but crikey.

      One of his Bridges' bridge promises has come true. The new Taipa bridge will be open in the next month or so and it's looking great. They have also hopefully solved issues with the largest school in the district flooding. The guys that built it will move onto the Kaeo bridge, that was always their intention. I see Robertson has begun calling the Kaeo job a Labour party win. Gosh they're amusing the way they all try to pin their brand on the wins, anyone's win.

      https://www.dealsonwheels.co.nz/trucks/news/1908/new-bridge-brings-benefits-to-taipa

  17. Philip Ferguson 17
    25 September 2019 at 1:09 pm

    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/09/24/iconic-feminists-to-speak-at-new-zealand-event/

    Canadian feminist Meghan Murphy is coming to New Zealand and will be speaking at the Feminism2020 event in Wellington on November 13th along with Dr Holly Lawford-Smith, Dr Melissa Derby, and SUFW spokeswoman Ani O’Brien. These are the feminists they don’t want you to hear. Banned, deplatformed, censored, and harassed, nonetheless these are women on the frontline of feminism.

    • Sacha 19.1
      25 September 2019 at 1:38 pm

      Ta. She really understood the role of the UN well, compared with the buffoon who spoke earlier.

      Ms Ardern spoke of the need for countries to work together to combat crises like the 15 March terror attack. "Experiences in recent years should lead us to all question whether any of us ever truly operate in isolation anymore."

      …

      In contrast, Mr Trump's speech was a celebration of unbridled nationalism.

      "Wise leaders always put the good of their own people and their own country first," he said. "The future does not belong to globalists. It belongs to patriots."

      …

      "If you want democracy, hold on to your sovereignty. And if you want peace, love your nation."

      We have always been at war with Eurasia..

  20. Sacha 20
    25 September 2019 at 2:21 pm

    To head off a flood of Press Council complaints about bias, The Harold rushes out a response by one of its travel writers to another's most recent silly rantings: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12270749

    Mike Hosking's latest effort "Hyperbole and hot air – Greta Thunberg's the new Jacinda" was a bit much, even for him. It read as though he was trying to comfort himself with nonsense instead of fact – exactly what he's accusing Greta of doing, ironically enough.

    …

    I won't mince words; you are on the wrong side of history and you are wrong.

    • Dukeofurl 20.1
      25 September 2019 at 2:30 pm

      Media Council doesnt review bias in Opinion columns. They are .. well opinions but rely on a 'foundation of fact' which means no easily provable lies.

      Neither are they expected to provide balance for opinions

  21. Dukeofurl 21
    25 September 2019 at 2:40 pm

    Twyford has torn strips off the bumblers in Treasury who botched the financial numbers in a report on Road infrastructure spending

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116076628/phil-twyford-hits-back-at-treasury-for-misleading-wrong-briefings-that-leave-out-billions-of-spending

    "Twyford says the claim the Government was missing $3.8 billion of new transport projects had "no factual basis"

    It seems that Treasury was writing reports based on wishful thinking from NZ National

    "Treasury has been left with egg on its face for the second time this year after Transport Minister Phil Twyford slammed the ministry for missing out billions of dollars from its calculations.

    • Sacha 21.1
      25 September 2019 at 4:51 pm

      Based on wishful thinking from the Infrastructure Council, I read somewhere. Can just imagine the neolibs in Treasury giving it a free pass cos not govt.

    • Ad 21.2
      25 September 2019 at 7:04 pm

      In part it's Twyford's own fault. He failed to clear out NZTA's Board or refresh its objectives as a Board. Instead he presumed that tilting the NLTP would be sufficient.

      Also he forgot to clean out Ministry of Transport, who have guided him about as poorly as it's possible for a Ministry to do so. This is one of the results. Another is the entire regulatory debacle. Another is the light rail strategy disaster and light rail procurement mess.

      But the suspicion I have is that Robertson decided to kick Twyford while he was down – ready to be reshuffled – and get another of Robertson's wieners replacing him in Cabinet.

    • greywarshark 22.1
      25 September 2019 at 4:16 pm

      ACC chair Dame Paula Rebstock said the record deficit was an accounting measure, and in its day to day dealings the corporation had a cash surplus of $570 million.

      "The cash operating surplus demonstrates ACC's robust funding structure that enables the scheme to withstand volatility, including falling interest rates."

      She said the deficit would not affect ACC's ability to pay claims and it's too early to say what effect it might have on levies, which would be set by the middle of next year….

      However, Dame Paula said in the medium term levies would have to rise to cover increasing costs such as medical treatments and rehabilitation.

      ACC had a record 2 million claims in the past year, which adds to the financial demands on its funds.

      The value of its outstanding claims liability (OCL) rose by $10.8b because of the fall in interest rates to $53b. ACC operates on the basis of having to cover the lifetime cost of all claims already made, and extends that out 100 years to 2119. (Should that be 3119? And why ahead so long, pay as we go plus have some reserves, would be practical but not pure enough for Treasury no doubt.)

      • The Al1en 22.1.1
        25 September 2019 at 4:21 pm

        ACC operates on the basis of having to cover the lifetime cost of all claims already made, and extends that out 100 years to 2119. (Should that be 3119?

        No

      • Dukeofurl 22.1.2
        25 September 2019 at 4:28 pm

        Next year is 2020, so 100 yrs later is 2119. No need add another 1000 yrs.

        Seems to me to be silly to go out 100 yrs , 50 yrs should be fine for almost all claimants and the few after that are inconsequential in terms of their reserves of $43.8 bill.

        An increase of $5 bill this year alone- not sure why thay should highlight the 'balance sheet future costs'

      • Sacha 22.1.3
        25 September 2019 at 4:56 pm

        Crikey, 100 years?

        Labour kept ACC on its full pre-funding trajectory after 1999 partly to build a handy nest egg they could plunder just like the Nats have, but the main reason Shipley et al made the shift in the first place was to prepare for privatisation. Sadly for English, Joyce and chums the Aussie insurance industry were not keen enough in 2009.

        Returning the scheme to annual pay-as-you-go instead would remove the prospect.

  23. Ad 23
    25 September 2019 at 3:45 pm

    I'm looking forward to Air New Zealand being regulated by the Commerce Commission as a monopoly on most New Zealand domestic routes, now that Jetstar is pulling out.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12270903

    It needs a lot more that Shane Jones to actually regulate price from a company that totally dominates one entire sector of the country. It's akin to every New Zealand motorway being tolled with no alternative route, and no one to hold them to legally hold them to account for the price they charge or how often you're allowed to drive on it.

    Or maybe the government can provide stronger scrutiny as the major shareholder.

    Or something.

    • greywarshark 23.1
      25 September 2019 at 4:06 pm

      +100

      • greywarshark 23.1.1
        25 September 2019 at 4:43 pm

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/399566/jetstar-to-pull-out-of-regional-flying-in-nz-at-end-of-november

        Government as usual hasn't the guts to run it's commercial businesses for the advantage of the whole country. There will be an opportunity to charge more for the main flights and subsidise to some extent the regions. And Jetstar shouldn't get the red carpet if they want to come here and get some of the cream.

        Finance Minister Grant Robertson said it was a shame to lose airline competition in the regions, but the government won't be telling Air New Zealand not to raise its prices.

        Mr Robertson was hopeful another airline would emerge.

        "We've had times in the past in New Zealand where we haven't had other operators on those regional routes and we'll have to see whether another one emerges but those decisions are entirely for Air New Zealand to make," he said.

        "Clearly there's an expectation from New Zealanders that there are fair prices paid, and we'll keep an eye on that."

  24. greywarshark 24
    25 September 2019 at 4:34 pm

    62 year old man abducts and sexually violates a 16 year old girl. There is a frame around his face from a CCTV picturte. Would that be for facial recognition tech?

    I haven't heard lately of any 62 year old woman abducting a teenage boy and sexually violating him. Seems that it is time we had a better approach to enable people to sort out their sex urges without invading someone else's self and respect. There have been some teachers however, so it's not quite black and white.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/399589/police-hunt-man-after-teenager-abducted-and-sexually-violated

    • The Al1en 24.1
      25 September 2019 at 4:37 pm

      ” Seems that it is time we had a better approach to enable people to sort out their sex urges without invading someone else’s self and respect.”

      What do you suggest?

      • greywarshark 24.1.1
        25 September 2019 at 4:40 pm

        Don't know at present what do you suggest.

        • The Al1en 24.1.1.1
          25 September 2019 at 4:52 pm

          Thought you might have some ideas seeing as you were the one who bought it up like you knew what you were talking about, so apart from precogs and precrime units like in Minority report, or chemical castration for all men and mandatory bromide in our tea just in case, unless you're on a sex offender list where you can be monitored and directed accordingly, there's not really much else you can do for individuals apart from keep pushing the message not to do it and punish those who do, is there?

          • Sabine 24.1.1.1.1
            25 September 2019 at 7:10 pm

            there's not really much else you can do for individuals apart from keep pushing the message not to do it and punish those who do, is there?

            and in the 'punish those who do' is where we fail utterly . We do not treat this particular crime as the crime it is. 'their sex urges' – heck of an urge there.

            is that when i steal a car i have uncontrolled 'drive urges'?

            • In Vino 24.1.1.1.1.1
              25 September 2019 at 7:37 pm

              I agree, Sabine. When I saw Al1en's comment, I thought it askew with that standard punishment bit. Punishment (known as negative reinforcement in the 60s when I was training to be a teacher) works (in my experience) only in the shallowest way for activities to which people are NOT emotionally inclined at a deep level, in which case punishment does next to nothing.

              I always liked the film 'A Clockwork Orange' because it deals with this issue.. but gives no solution.

              So what are the options if punishment fails?

              • Sabine …
                25 September 2019 at 7:41 pm

                a truly novel approach.

                throw the darn law book at them, lock em up – no matter how bright their future – and keep them locked up until time served.

                or else lets stop with the pretense that we are a nation of laws and simply abolish all laws as there will always be offenders and really what can be done?

                • Poission …
                  25 September 2019 at 7:50 pm

                  Isocrates in Areopagiticus, (some 25 centuries ago) suggested that excess laws was a sign of poor government.

                  Written laws do not increase virtue, but quotidian customs. Most men tend to take up the customs as moral of the place in which they were brought up. More so, it is evident that where there is a large number of defined laws, it is a signal that the state is badly governed. There are cases in which men try to build barriers against delinquency decreeing large numbers of norms. But well-governed men do not need to fill the porticos with written laws, but simply fix justice in the spirits, and those poorly educated will try to break the laws accurately produced. By contrast, well-educated men will be in good disposition to respect even the simplest codes.

          • greywarshark 24.1.1.1.2
            26 September 2019 at 10:54 pm

            You are so wet Allen always spoiling for an argument. I show example, express concern and say something should be done. And that starts you off with a demand that I delineate a policy to deal with it. Are you becoming an ambush troll I hope not? Well I have given you something to bother about – I have spelt your pseudo wrongly. What's your cunning plan?

            • The Al1en 24.1.1.1.2.1
              26 September 2019 at 11:42 pm

              To be honest, the way you write leaves me bemused, and often I'm left thinking wtf is that all about, not to mention thoughts about quality over quantity. Tell you what, if you're responding to me in future, I'd consider it a courtesy if you'd make your arguments and points in plain English and help me out a bit. Though it has to be said, to completely shoot it down, in the exchange here you haven’t once given examples of how to deal with the issue you yourself raised, in fact you answered “Don’t know at present”. If you’re going to lie, at least look at the previous posts first.

              As for not using my chosen login name correctly, well, that's just a failing on your part you wilfully advertise to the membership here. I don't mind that at all. 😉

  26. Eco maori 26
    27 September 2019 at 8:23 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Check We are stuffing there future so Our Rangatahi deserve to vote to protect their future but I say move the goal post a bit closer and go for 17 years old to vote.

    That is a great discription of Aotearoa Prime Minister she is genuine and is using her Mana to make other tangata lives better.

    More putea being invested into our Rangatahi sports programme is great I hope some of that putea get to the Regions.

    Tutai shonkys only minute on the Papatuanuku stage was the golf game.

    Our change to a green future will boost our Papatuanuku economy and leave Our futures A Clean and Green environment we all know that's a bit had for unintelligent people to Grasp?????????.

    Great interview Rangatahi don't worry about the neanderthal they will be rolled into our history books.

    The idea of Rangatahi being able to vote has just started. Opinions will change I have seen polls change quite rapidly on some subjects

    Yes our farmers are putting them selves under a lot pressure they are isolated with no one to talk to. I tau toko this big barbecue initiative to help farmers who are on a low at the minute Ma Te Wa thing will get better that's the way of life ups and downs tangata just have to stay look for the positive side of every situation Ka kaha.

    Ka kite Ano

  27. Eco maori 27
    27 September 2019 at 3:21 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

    https://youtu.be/Z0lufcRgZlA

  28. Eco maori 28
    27 September 2019 at 6:29 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    That's is a huge Strike for Our Climate in Aotearoa Ka pai Ka kaha keep up the good mahi

    Shaun Eco Maori won't be flying any time soon not until air travel has cleaned up there act.

    Wow that's a big drop for NZ post yes online shopping is takeing off for them it's replaceing posted letters.

    The Takia promise of our Aotearoa quest leaving behind only foot prints and not rubbish is great everyone knows they have to get on the Clean and Green WAKA or they will sink.

    Ka kite Ano

  29. Eco maori 29
    27 September 2019 at 6:46 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Our Strikes for Our Climate makes Eco Maori so proud. It is a emergency Our way of living has to change we are only on Papatuanuku for a very small finite time it's not on that our generation is making such a big mess that it will make living in the future extremely hard for the common poor tangata to live a healthy life. The climate change deniers are making out that mitergateing Global warming will make Tawhirimate fall on Our heads YEA RIGHT mitergateing global warming will be the best thing for us all.

    Ka kite Ano

  31. Eco maori 31
    28 September 2019 at 10:14 am

    I….Eco Maori tipuna new this Phenomenon people power is stronger than people in power he made a Haka

    Te tangata Te tangata its the people that count in Te Papatuanuku

    Climate crisis: 6 million people join latest wave of global protests

    Week of strikes and demonstrations is ‘only the beginning’, say organisers

    Young climate protesters in Lisbon, Portugal

    Six million people have taken to the streets over the past week, uniting across timezones, cultures and generations to demand urgent action on the escalating ecological emergency

    “This week was a demonstration of the power of our movement,” said a spokesperson for the FridaysForFuture group which has helped coordinate the demonstrations. “People power is more powerful than the people in power. It was the biggest ever climate mobilisation, and it’s only the beginning. The momentum is on our side and we are not going anywhere

    The day of protests began in New Zealand, where an open letter was delivered to parliament on Friday morning calling on the government to declare a climate emergency – following the lead of numerous councils around the country

    On Friday there were huge protests in Italy – where more than 1 million people were reported to have taken part – Spain, the Netherlands and New Zealand, where more than 3.5% of the country’s population joined the demonstrations.

    Organisers said they were expecting more people to join as the day progressed. High turnouts were expected in Canada, where Greta Thunberg – who kickstarted the school strike movement with a solo protest in Sweden 12 months ago – was due to join demonstrators in Montreal.

    May Boeve from 350.org, which has helped organise the demonstrations, said: “We will keep fighting until the politicians stop ignoring the science, and the fossil fuel companies are held responsible for their crimes against our future, as they should have been decades ago.”

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/27/climate-crisis-6-million-people-join-latest-wave-of-worldwide-protests

  32. Eco maori 32
    28 September 2019 at 6:25 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub

    Condolences to the whanau who lost their pepi to a idiot on a dirt bike in Palmerston North. Dirt bike should be only riden on farms or tracks.

    A big scrub fire near Queens Town let's hope they can get it under control before to much damage is caused.

    That's good that the girl has been found whom got swept out to Tangaroa while white baiting.

    Cool Aotearoa first Tamariki building academy that's innovation at its best from Our Government Ka pai.

    War is for idiots.

    Ka kite Ano

  33. Eco maori 33
    28 September 2019 at 6:48 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Condolences to Careys whanau for their loss of their mother.

    There you go people not respecting Tangaroa mokopuna by driving heavy machinery over them to gather mussels spat

    FOMA is a awesome initiative way to encourage Maori tangata to get into business It takes a lot of courage to make the leap into business in Aotearoa for tangata whenua as some will try and put us off our mission of building a moanga for Te mokopuna.

    Ngāti pikiao culture is looking strong that is great for mokopuna to carry on with their culturel identity kia kaha.

    Ka kite Ano

  35. Eco maori 35
    29 September 2019 at 12:16 pm

    Ka pai to the Papatuanuku waka free day that is what everyone can do to easily drop our Carbon footprint walk and ride a bike for smaller journeys. I don't burn nowhere as much carbon as I use to. I have plans to lower my carbon footprint even more Ma Te Wa.

    Pollutionwatch: how does World Car-free Day affect emissions?

    Though air quality appeared to improve, measuring the precise impact of car-less days is difficult

    People walk on the Champs Élysées during World Car-free Day in Paris.

    Last Sunday peace and tranquillity descended on city centres across the world as many went car-free for the day.

    This annual event started in the UK, in Bath, in 1994 with a road closure and street party for the Environmental Transport Association’s Green Transport Week. In 1997 it spread to France with En Ville Sans Ma Voiture (In Town Without My Car) in La Rochelle, and by 2007 it spanned 2,000 cities in 35 countries Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/26/pollutionwatch-how-does-world-car-free-day-affect-emissions

  36. Eco maori 36
    29 September 2019 at 12:43 pm

    Ka pai to the people who are backing Wahine and giving them opportunity to have clean and green energy in their own whare. Mana Wahine. I have also read that whaine are making sure that there retirement savings is invest in companies that care for our future generations environment Wahine toa

    Jaipur, India (CNN Business)India is trying to bring electricity to hundreds of millions of its citizens who live off the grid. And it's trying to ensure that the power comes from clean and renewable sources.

    Frontier Markets is helping to achieve both those goals in the Western desert state of Rajasthan, selling solar-powered products to hundreds of villages. The company is thriving by turning its customers into salespeople.

    The company employs women to sell products like lamps, stoves, and even TVs that run on solar power through a program called Solar Sahelis (Solar Friends). Each woman is in charge of selling products to hundreds of rural households

    We learned that while the customer — the person paying for the product — was a man, the person using the product was a woman," Frontier Markets CEO Ajaita Shah said in an interview with CNN Business. "In fact, 70% of our users were women and that is when we realized that in order to properly serve the right households needs, women had to be at the center of that value chain," she added.

    Shah founded Frontier Markets in 2011, with the goal of providing clean energy to millions of rural Indians while also giving women a source of employment and income. The goals encapsulate some of India's most urgent issues.

    The government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi has made rural electrification a big priority, announcing last year that 100% of the country's villages now have access to power. But the government considers a village electrified if just 10% of its houses are on the grid, meaning over 200 million people still don't have access to electricity.

    The Modi government has also set aggressive targets to increase solar energy capacity, and it has succeeded in going from less than four gigawatts in 2015 to nearly 30 gigawatts — about 8% of India's total energy capability. The government wants to increase that to 100 gigawatts by 2022.

    The 3,000 women that Shah employs have helped to provide energy to more than half a million village houses in Rajasthan, she said. The women communicate the benefits of clean energy to rural households, but also help Frontier Markets understand the kind of innovations that those households need most, she added.

    Another pressing need that Frontier Markets is helping to solve is getting more women into work. Only 22% of India's workforce is female, according to the latest data from the World Bank, one of the lowest rates in the world. India lags behind countries such as Sudan, El Salvador and Afghanistan.

    "As India starts growing and moving and changing and evolving, especially with the digital revolution, women are still being left behind," Shah said. "It's really important for us to continuously invest in our women's skills and their education to be able to catch up."

    Ajaita Shah founded Frontier Markets in 2011.ka kite Ano link below.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/01/business/india-solar-frontier-markets/index.html

  37. Eco maori 37
    29 September 2019 at 6:51 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Te atea college is a great organisation that has helped tangata whenua get greater education its sad that they are facing problems I hope they can sort it out and keep the school open.

    Kamo school is having problems to we need to taonga all our Maori based education centres.

    Te tangata whenua of Alask are going to get a ap to help keep their culture going strong its a great way to use social media to help keep their historical culture Mana Ka kaha.

    Yes there was a big celebration in Japan this Rugby World Cup is quite exciting

    Ka kite Ano

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