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Open mike 25/10/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 25th, 2021 - 38 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

38 comments on “Open mike 25/10/2021 ”

  1. Ad 1

    That Electricity Authority review into the wholesale electricity market and spot prices comes out on Wednesday. At some point the Minister of Energy will have to respond.

    Presumably no Minister is expecting a recommendation that the state will require Meridian to divest the Manapouri generation system.

    Presumably no Minister will suggest that Manapouri is such a powerful risk in the Southland economy that the state itself should buy it, in order to gain control over that risk (and opportunity!)

    Presumably no Minister will suggest that the Electricity Authority should be screwed up and thrown away because is just an ideologically driven tool of an absurd form of usurous capitalism that obviously doesn't keep the lights on, nor encourage Transpower or key generators to keep the lights on.

    Presumably no Minister would have the imagination to re-accrete electricity supply governance away from "market" ideologues.

    Presumably no Minister would use the moment of the climate crisis negotiations to announce that it will put Transpower, Manapouri, its 51% stake in key generators, and the ownership of the new 'battery dam' into a new state entity that would drive line and generation costs down and national security up.

    I'll wait until Wednesday's report release, but I'm not holding my breath.

    • Foreign waka 1.1

      Meridian Energy, Genesis Energy and Mercury Energy are 51% majority owned by the Government. Contact and Trustpower are 100% publicly traded companies.

      I think this means the Government (all of us) own 51% of Meridian, Genesis and Mercury. A lot of Kiwis invested in Mercury when the shares came to the market.

      If the Government really wants to make a difference, than Power, Food and Rates should not have GST put on it. For 51% of power and especially on rates, its a tax on the tax. Don't call it a fee or any other eccentric name, its a tax on the tax.

      Here is my prediction: the government will increase GST if re elected. Because someone has to repay all the billions and if wont be the Corporations that took a large slice of the 16 Billions and made a runner. Power prices will not get any lower, neither will rates. Quite the opposite.

      • Ed1 1.1.1

        Dividends from the 51% owned companies are a return on investment to all shareholders. I don't see it as a tax on tax at all – could you explain?

  2. I like your 'presumables' much better than many peoples' 'reckons', ad.
    Real, constructive ‘socialism’ from this government?

    We can but live in hope, but like you, I'm not holding my breath.

  3. Dennis Frank 3

    Phillida Bunkle examines hidden agendas in the memoirs of Margaret Wilson: Margaret Wilson's apparently boring book Activism, Feminism, Politics and Parliament is actually a story of friendship betrayed and cool revenge. https://www.newsroom.co.nz/readingroom/book-of-the-week-margaret-wilsons-revenge

    “History will be kind to me – for I will write it” – Sir Winston Churchill

    Phillida, herself a distinguished feminist and Alliance MP, doesn't just present a book review – her lengthy dissertation on the nexus of feminist politics, neoliberalism, and the Labour Party ought to be required reading for history students!

    Those in search of an honest account of how the great political battle of our lifetimes changed an energetic and intelligent feminist deeply committed to the welfare of workers will be enthralled.

    Wilson has an outstanding record of achievement. She was not only the first woman Dean of a New Zealand law school but also first woman President of the New Zealand Labour Party, first woman Attorney General, and first woman Speaker of the House of Representatives.

    She also served on the Board of the Reserve Bank. Somehow Wilson also fitted in an impressive parliamentary career as a Minister for Labour, Commerce, Treaty Negotiations, The Parliamentary Service, and Associate Minister of Justice with responsibilities for both the Courts and for Corrections.

    At 16, cancer entailed the amputation of a leg above the knee leaving her with excruciating lifelong pain periodically exacerbated by ulceration from her prosthesis. It took a severely disciplined mind to accept her disability and determine that it was “part of me…but did not define me”.

    Pain isolates. It cannot be shared. Wilson developed an air of guarded solitariness.

    I think that last point warrants an essay in itself. Interesting how the loner can sometimes play a key role in the group. I've played it. Eisenhower famously said Patton was better inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in. Patton directed the tank charge that routed the Wehrmacht after D-Day. Few can win battles at the top end like that. Lesson for Labour: keep your feisty dissidents on board if you can!

    • alwyn 3.1

      " Eisenhower famously said Patton was better inside the tent pissing out than outside pissing in"

      I'll wager you can't find any record of Eisenhower saying that. It was said by Johnson about Edgar Hoover but he was a couple of Presidents after Ike.

      I'm afraid that your comment about her Parliamentary career is equally fallacious. Her performance with Treaty Settlements was pretty much zero. Cullen had to be put into the job before anything at all was achieved. She was, as a Parliamentarian, a total failure. Some people are like that. They have great careers before entering Parliament and then are total failures once they reach the house. Marion Hobbs was another example.

      • Dennis Frank 3.1.1

        Interesting. I've seen that Eisenhower quote in more than one book in the past but since Google can't confirm it you may be right.

        Re "your comment about her Parliamentary career", that was actually a quote from Bunkle as indicated by the quote mark & inset…

        I'm agnostic re her parliamentary career but perhaps she served as Speaker for several years due to being a "total failure"? Fairly normal for the parliamentary Speaker to at least simulate such, even when not actually exhibiting such, regardless of which party appointed them (Hunt probably exception to that rule).

        • alwyn

          "that was actually a quote from Bunkle". Yes of course it is. Sorry to attribute it to you.

          I think that Wilson was put into the Speaker's job because she had, I suspect, been talked into going into Parliament by Helen Clark with the promise of a senior job. When being a Cabinet Minister didn't work out being Speaker was the one position that had the status but not the work of a Minister.

  4. dv 4

    My mother caused problems with neighbors over tv being too loud.

    She had a hearing test, and found she was partially deaf!!!

    Hearing aid sorted it.

    I wonder if that is the issue with his case.

    The offending property in Avondale's Eastdale Rd has amassed a staggering 72 noise complaints to Auckland Council since the female tenant moved in in March.


  5. dv 5

    Re the set shooting.

    Surely the assistant dirrector must be charged with some offence relating to the death.

    WHY can't they have an electronic device in the gun that sends a signal to the camera when the gun is fired to record a gun shot?

    Why was there live ammunition any where near the set?

    Apparently there were previous complaints

    A crew member in the US says she raised safety concerns in the past about the assistant director who authorities say unwittingly handed actor Alec Baldwin the prop gun that killed a cinematographer on a New Mexico film set.

    Crew member Maggie Goll said in a statement that she filed an internal complaint with the executive producers of Hulu’s Into the Dark series in 2019 over concerns about assistant director Dave Halls' behaviour on set.

    Goll said in an email on Sunday (local time) that Halls disregarded safety protocols for weaponsand pyrotechnics and tried to continue filming after a crew member had “slipped into a diabetic fugue state”.


  6. Dennis Frank 6

    Guardian has an interesting report on substantial ethnic divisions within the Inuit, involving a significant territorial claim.

    Under Canada’s constitution, Indigenous groups have the right to self-govern and enter into negotiations with the federal government over land claims…

    Two years ago, the NunatuKavut community council [NCC] signed a memorandum of understanding with Canada’s federal government that established their Inuit identity, effectively laying the groundwork for myriad benefits and paving the way for future negotiations over land claims. Controversially, their claimed territory lies outside the borders of Inuit Nunangat.

    Canada’s largest Inuit organization has rejected the claims as “fraudulent” and in a recent letter called on the prime minister, Justin Trudeau, to halt all negotiations with the group. The escalating row has raised thorny questions over identity, ancestry – and who speaks for Indigenous peoples.

    The 6,000 members of NCC live in the rocky, coastal region of southern Labrador. While most have lost their connection to the Inuktitut language, they nonetheless claim a strong cultural tie to the region, defined by cultural protocols, an emphasis on kinship ties and a deep connection to the land, said Debbie Martin, a professor at Dalhousie University and a member of the NunatuKavut. “I’ve studied and tried to understand why our people have never had their rights recognized,” she said, adding that residents have “never wavered in their deep and lasting ancestral ties to the territory”.

    But the two Indigenous groups in the area, the Nunatsiavut government and the Innu Nation, both reject NunatuKavut’s claim… Obed said his concern was not with any one individual’s claim to Inuit ancestry. Instead, he worried that NunatuKavut identifies as an Inuit collective – even though no other Inuit organization has validated those claims.

    “We are quite concerned about the ability for a newly formed collective to then demand rights and compensation and overlapping claims for areas that have been identified Inuit lands under modern treaties,” said Obed, who represents more than 65,000 Inuit in Canada.


    So if indigenous people won't recognise other indigenous people as being such, we have a task for govt to undertake, I guess, and/or the courts.

    there is no formal arbiter in Canada over who is rightfully granted Indigenous status as a collective, and who gets to speak for those groups.

  7. garibaldi 7

    Here we go again.

    Todays headline on al Jazeera news……Israel to build 1300 new West Bank settler homes. Israeli Housing Minister Zeev Elkin says 'strengthening Jewish presence in the West Bank is essential to 'Zionist vision'.’

    Why ,Why, Why does the World continually cower to the bloody Zionists? Why can’t the good Jews in this world stop them? Why can’t the USA contain them at all?

    • Probably part of a deal that got the latest even-more-right-wing-than-Bibi lot elected.

      The 2 state solution is dead. The Palestinians should call their bluff and ask for a one state solution called Israel-Palestine, with equal rights for all.

  8. joe90 8

    Farrier deep-dives the local looniverse.


    • Ross 8.1

      You get the feeling that David is preaching to the converted. That's a shame because a more nuanced approach might have produced something more meaningful and insightful.

      He uses the c-word without explanation. A conspiracy is a "secret plot by two or more powerful actors".

      “Conspiracy theories” are attempts to explain the ultimate causes of significant social and political events and circumstances with claims of secret plots by two or more powerful actors. … It is important for scholars to define what they mean by “conspiracy theorist” and “conspiracy theory” because—by signalling irrationality—these terms can neutralize valid concerns and delegitimize people. … Politicians sometimes use these terms to deflect criticism because it turns the conversation back onto the accuser rather than the accused.

      It's not at all obvious that David's actors are all conspiracy theorists. Some of them may believe in secret plots by powerful actors, but I'm more inclined to think they simply disagree with the prevailing orthodoxy.

      The associate editor of the British Medical Journal, Peter Doshi, has suggested that the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine might be as low as 19% (although he seems to think it's unlikely to be that low). I suppose he could be a conspiracy theorist, but if you read his critiques, you will see he is nothing of the sort. He is simply taking Pfizer to task for the quality of information that the company has released, or not released.

      One can oppose the prevailing orthodoxy without being a conspiracy theorist.




      • joe90 8.1.1

        If any of the conspiratorial loons profiled had the creds of someone like Doshi, you may have a point.


        • Shanreagh

          Agree Joe90. One boss I had who had a high public profile called them 'Nutters' and we had a series of Nutters files. They had nothing like the reach then hey have now with the internet.

          I saw this from the American Psychologists Assn


          Ross, I don't think it is the ideas so much. Many people understand and accept a forward thinker. Acceptance also is easier when they use accepted modes and ways of reasoning to get their message across. Obviously this works for people who can think critically.

          Then a fellow poster on another board has offered this up as a bit of a point of difference and it is all about the company you keep when you join one of these groups.

          'One of the many ways to know you are on the wrong side of an issue, look around, at your compatriots, do they seem more than a bit…off.

          Are they raving at all? Permanently sad? Confused perhaps, more than is reasonable. Key point there, do they understand "reasonable" as a general concept?

          Do they lack basic skills in rational and/or sceptical thinking. Do they feel the need to play old videos of their former "greatness" before saying what it is they may have to say? (I watched one, a tragedy in slow mo) Are they concerned with "the devil" and it's earthly representatives on a regular, say weekly, schedule?

          Elvis? Hitler? Communists? … the FBI!"

          So when you look at the Loony list, the reading above and the APA link you will see that these people are not the forward thinkers or questioners, mostly they are mired in the past or in cahoots with other fringes, often far right (with this present lot) links. The loony lot that invaded a MB I frequent, followers of Liz Gunn, are now calling to 'rise up' and similar phrasing. Now that is taken directly from the playbook / memes of similar groups in the US.

          • Ross

            I take your point, but am not completely convinced.

            You might be too young to remember but some doctors once promoted smoking as a healthy option, and that it really was OK to put lead in petrol. Also, it was once thought that asking young children suggestive and leading questions was acceptable because asking such questions was necessary to obtain disclosures of abuse. We know the dangers of each.

            Experts have testified in court with devastating effect. Sally Clark’s case is tragic, wrongly convicted after an expert wrongly claimed that the probability of two babies dying from natural causes in an affluent family were 1 in 73 million.



            • Shanreagh

              At my age (70) it seems very, or mildly flattering (mustn't get too carried away!) to have the possibility of being 'too young to remember……'

              I do remember the anti smoking campaign from a very young age, urging my very occasionally smoking father not to smoke and of course remember the change to unleaded petrol. The people who urged these changes I would not class as conspiracy theorists.

              My point is that I don't think that many of the scientists or the people you are putting up are what they would call conspiracy thinkers.

              The recovered memory people I was sceptical about all along and thought they were conspiracy thinkers (would not have called them that at the time) from the time these court cases came about. That the Courts were taken in by so-called experts is horrifying. NZ then though was a place where generally experts, and possibly overseas experts, were not openly challenged but revered in some circles. Our Emperor has no clothes' senses were not as opened as they are now.

              The Sally Clark case is tragic. The anti people in her case mmmmm don't know if I'd class them as conspiracy thinkers. Or just plain wrong. Scientists advising while not keeping an open mind. Just plain wrong like the people in the 'Unfortunate Experiment.' Perhaps not actuated by actual individual malice but unable to see that at the end of their medical reckons/ideas/views was a person. And of course a degree of 'you cannot question me as I know more than you do in my field' or 'I am senior to you'. Hence the growth in ethics and more rigorous peer review.

              Conspiracy thinkers are very different. There is a degree of general nuttiness, singlemindedness and OTT fervour. You cannot reason with them. By the time they get to the evangelising stage they are well-involved and know all the play-book responses. Thye usually have a track record of misinterpreting the science or at worst manipulating the science. Thye are fast moving and if you do tackle them you will no get a considered response. More along the lines 'so you are happy for people to be raped by having the vaccine'. By the time you've picked yourself off the floor and you've spluttered coffee all over the place, then got out all the info to try to demolish the argument they moved on and you will get a responses urging you in caps 'TO THINK"

              Some of the conspiracy thinkers in NZ have been involved in 'shock. horror' let's manipulate the statistics and the public for years. They float from issue to issue.

              The colleague from another board said

              'One of the many ways to know you are on the wrong side of an issue, look around, at your compatriots, do they seem more than a bit…off.'

              You can flip this around and put yourself in as a member of any of these groups to assess their validity.

  9. Anker 9


    Response to Margaret Atwood exercising her right to free speech. She’s an elderly lady for gods sake

    • Sabine 9.1

      well, what was Margaret thinking?

      Every times these 'Trans rights Activists' show their faces it becomes more and more clear that maybe this has got nothing to do with Trans rights at all, but rather is more a free for all bog standard Misogyny hiding its ugly face behind a call to diversity and inclusivity of men being women to the extend where women either submit to being bullshitted or they get threatened with all sorts of sexual violence, and frankly, what screams more 'I am a women' then threatening someone with rape, murder and the forced sucking of Lady dick, or ass.

      • francesca 9.1.1

        Agree. the male style misogyny is very telling. Do these men want to be women in order to trash them in some way.The womanface version of blackface.I think they would dearly love to take women's reproductive alchemy for their own too. There's a coarse vaudeville parody of womanhood with these hostile aggressive transwomen .Something other going on that's not a tender longing to be the other sex at all.

  10. Dennis Frank 10

    On One News just now a reporter named Laura was telling us that some folk are using the identity of others to get jabs for them. Of course, there's always irrational people in the community but if this is an actual trend, the authorities will have to watch it carefully.

    That's because irrational behaviour itself can easily snowball in a pressure situation. People aren't thinking clearly and may be trying to create the false impression to boost numbers up to 90% so that restrictions will ease. Jeez, what next?? 😒

  11. Andre 11

    Just in case anyone was wondering, the new case breakdown for last week was:

    there were 311 eligible but unvaccinated new cases, there were 30 eligible but unvaccinated new hospitalisations. Cumulative totals in August outbreak are 1443 cases, 168 hospitalisations

    there were 139 new cases in under 12s (ineligible for vax), and one new hospitalisation of an under 12. Cumulative totals in August outbreak are 541 cases, 8 hospitalisations

    there were 60 new cases that had received one dose less than 14 days before being reported as a case, there were 6 new hospitalisations in that group. Cumulative totals in August outbreak are 205 cases, 25 hospitalisations

    there were 99 new cases that had received one dose more than 14 days before being reported as a case, there were 4 new hospitalisations in that group. Cumulative totals in August outbreak are 290 cases, 17 hospitalisations

    there were 29 new cases that had received their second dose less than 14 days before being reported as a case, there were 2 new hospitalisations in that group. Cumulative totals in August outbreak are 66 cases, 3 hospitalisations

    there were 45 new cases that had received their second dose more than 14 days before being reported as a case, and zero new hospitalisations in that group. Cumulative totals in August outbreak are 136 cases, 3 hospitalisations

    data from:https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics

    I haven't yet found where the MoH publishes all the past week-by-week info, so I'm just taking a photo every week to get the weekly new cases.

    It's kinda stark, the difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated rates. Especially now that strong majorities have been vaccinated, even in the DHB areas where the cases are occurring.

    • chris T 11.1

      "there were 311 eligible but unvaccinated new cases, there were 30 eligible but unvaccinated new hospitalisations. Cumulative totals in August outbreak are 1443 cases, 168 hospitalisations"

      "there were 45 new cases that had received their second dose more than 14 days before being reported as a case, and zero new hospitalisations in that group. Cumulative totals in August outbreak are 136 cases, 3 hospitalisations"

      Kind of telling really……(He says having put off his second because I am a wimp and not doing it till this Friday 🙂

      3 weeks and should be sweet, unless catch it earlier.

      Think those stats should be put on a t-shirt and waved in front of vax hesitant peoples faces.

      • Andre 11.1.1

        I'll let you in on a secret:

        I've had somewhere around 80 vaccinations in my life. In my life, getting vaccinated is just what you do when you might get exposed to a disease and there's a vaccine for it. Vaccination is just a normal routine every-year part of my life.

        I'm still an abject craven coward when it comes to actually getting one. At least part of it is I fully expect to feel like shit for a day or three afterwards.

        • chris T

          Yeah. Have decided it is just one of those "Chris. Bite the bullet. Man up. You might feel crap for a day or so. Get over yourself!" things. Lol

          • mac1

            Join the three million fully vaxxed, Chris T. Welcome aboard. Felt a bit jaded going up a hill after the second dose- nothing worse than that. Could have been lack of condition, too….

      • Patricia Bremner 11.1.2

        Good for you Chris T .smiley Buy yourself a treat to have when you feel A1 again.

    • Poission 11.2

      Its updated daily,for fully vaccinated the rate if infection vs total population has increased from 4.65 to over 5%,what is concerning is the rate of infection with the partially vaccinated at around 20% suggesting that some are relaxing health constraints.

      • Andre 11.2.1

        The vaccinated/unvaccinated case breakdowns have only been updated weekly, unlike most of the other data on that page which is mostly updated daily.

        Sorry, I can't make heads nor tails of what you're trying to say with the rest of your comment.

        • Poission

          The rate of infection with the partially vaccinated is around 20% of all cases.The questions that arise are

          Are they relaxing the new social norms (thinking they are protected)? such as expanding their social contacts etc,

          and will the rate of infection in a partially vaccinated increase the risk of breakthrough infection?

          • McFlock

            I suspect you might be overworking the numbers.

            These numbers aren't perfectly precise, they are essentially approximations: false positives and negatives in the tests, record keeping or injection errors in the vaccination status, and so on. A shift of 0.5% in distribution could just be today's tally had a different community sample testing positive. Tomorrow it might shift back 0.1%. It doesn't necessarily reflect a change in exposure or efficacy.

            The most vulnerable group remains the unvaccinated. Cross the other bridges if the confidence intervals call them unusually high.

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