Open mike 25/05/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 25th, 2016 - 82 comments
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82 comments on “Open mike 25/05/2016”

  1. Paul 1

    Another day in John Key’s neo-liberal nightmare.
    We have become a cruel, ugly and selfish nation under his wretched leadership.

    Affordable housing search leaves children out in the cold

    Beneficiaries $417 million in debt to WINZ

    Winz pays $60k in motel bills for mother of eight

    Rents in City of Sails jump $20 a week to record high

    • dv 1.1

      Winz pays $60k in motel bills for mother of eight

      THAT was a LOAN.

      • Herodotus 1.1.1

        But from the herald we have this …
        Social Development Ministry housing chief Carl Crafar said the family was evicted from the house last July due to the meth contamination.
        “They are currently not eligible for a Housing NZ house, and have admitted to using meth in their past three Housing NZ properties,” he said.
        But Jane said the contamination occurred before she moved into the house three years earlier.
        “I have never used meth or cooked it in my life,” she said.
        Can someone out there help me ? Ministry said they have admitted to using and that is the reason they are not eligible, and yet they refute this.

        • Puckish Rogue

          Either he or she is telling porkies, if he can’t offer up proof then he’s lying, simple as that.

          • Draco T Bastard

            You do understand that you can’t prove a negative don’t you?

            • Puckish Rogue

              I would assume there’s some form of written communication or verbal communication (I delete nothing at work because you never know…), if there isn’t then he shouldn’t be making allegations like that

        • b waghorn

          Using meth shouldn’t be grounds for kicking someone out anyway , referring them to get help with their meth smoking should be the answer.

          • Puckish Rogue

            If its true that its three properties that’ve been affected then yes refer them to get help with meth smoking by all mean but remember that’s three families that now can’t use those houses

            Personally speaking if you’re a meth user then you shouldn’t be looking after/having more kids until you get clean

            • Psycho Milt

              Why can’t they use those houses? Someone’s smoked some toxic chemicals in them at some point – well, that used to happen multiple times a day in two thirds of NZ houses in the 1960s, and nobody felt like they couldn’t live in those houses. It’s a crock of shit.

              • Puckish Rogue



                Well fair enough for you but I’m thinking its better that people don’t live in P houses

                • framu

                  “The problem here, as toxicologists explained to the Science Media Centre back in March, is that residues from meth being smoked – as opposed to manufacture, which involves dangerous chemicals and real health risks – pose, at worst, a “minimal” risk of toxicity.”

                  from hard news

                  which links to these experts

                  The issues with a lab house are real and dangerous – the issues with a house thats just had it smoked in appear to be very low to non existent.

                  It appears that the health guidelines are only really concerned with high level lab contamination and have very little to say on residue from consumption

                  The whole issue is more a moral panic created by operators trying to ramp up business in an environment where theres no licensing, no oversight, inadequate regulations and theres no right of appeal (false positive test results)

                • Your links are about houses that have been used as meth labs. Those are indeed dangerous – houses in which someone might have smoked a pipe now and then, not so much.

            • b waghorn

              Your assuming all meth users are completely addicted and that any level of contamination is toxic to life.
              I think its just a useful diversion for this government s inability to deliver its brighter future.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Your assuming all meth users are completely addicted and that any level of contamination is toxic to life.

                – I just think being addicted to something like meth means you shouldn’t be in charge of kids

                – While not any contamination is toxic if (and at the moment its still if) what’s said is true and that’s three houses that’ve been contaminated then I wouldn’t be surprised if that was starting to affect the kids which, as far as I’m concerned, is child abuse

                – but that aside shouldn’t we, as a society, be erring on the side of caution anyway when its comes to kids safety?

                I think its just a useful diversion for this government s inability to deliver its brighter future

                – Probably not wrong there

                • b waghorn

                  ” I wouldn’t be surprised if that was starting to affect the kids which,as far I’m concerned, is child abuse ”

                  Going by that argument the kids of anyone who smokes tabbaco in the house or car with them is also a child abuser who should have their kids removed.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    I wouldn’t have a problem with that, if you’re deliberately harming your childs health then its child abuse.

                    • Molly

                      “…if you’re deliberately harming your childs health then its child abuse….”

                      Unfortunately, the solution to this is not as simple as removing the child. CYFS – who are struggling to create a safe environment for children in their care know this all too well.

                      While some children undoubtedly benefit from removal, many others struggle with the loss of family connection and the care that is offered is often piecemeal and fragmented.

                      As bwaghorn points out above, there are numerous incidents that can be considered “child abuse”. What about the teenage girl that is supported in her quest for plastic surgery at a young age, or those children brought up to think that poverty is the fault of the poor? Abuse is still abuse, even if it is not physical.

                      Child removal from a family is something to approach with caution, reserve and comprehensive support, not from some arbitrary perspective of abuse.

                    • I wouldn’t have a problem with that, if you’re deliberately harming your childs health then its child abuse.

                      Good job no-one thought that back when two-thirds of NZers were smokers, or we’d have run out of non-smoking foster parents in short order. And the cost of identifying and “decontaminating” all those filthy smokers’ houses – the government would still be paying off the debt now. At some point, you have to take the stick out of your arse and accept that not everyone achieves your own level of righteous propriety.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      So how many of those caregivers now have cancer or died from cancer or how about increased rates of cancer in kids in those households?

                    • Heaps among the people who were doing the smoking, fuck-all for anyone else.

                      Still, for the sake of argument: suppose the government were to accept your view that someone smoking tobacco in a house is child abuse and we should err on the side of caution. The smoking rate in NZ is still something like 20%, which means an enormous number of tenants need to be banned from state housing and evicted along with their kids so that their houses can be “decontaminated.” The country doesn’t have that many motels, let alone that much money to waste on loan sharking. Is there any point at which you might start to think “This is a really dumb idea?”

                • reason

                  What about the lead puckish ???


                  Now that is a poison ………………

                  Meth contamination seems to be more of a problem for scientists like Paula bennet, real estate agents and the meth cleaning company’s.

                  While meth labs are dangerous and toxic….. the presence of meth itself ….and at levels of 1 two millionth of a gram over 10 sq cms would pose zero health dangers…….,hopefully the meth scam leads to something being done about all the lead contaminated houses poisoning our kids and pets …….

                  “EFFECTS ON ADULTS

                  • Can damage the brain, affect fertility, increase the risk of miscarriage or stillbirth, and raise blood pressure. In pregnant women, lead can cross the placenta and damage the fetus. Also linked to anaemia, seizures, hearing loss, nausea, fatigue.
                  • Possible symptoms: headaches, irritability, aggressive behaviour, insomnia, abdominal pain, loss of appetite, constipation, anaemia.

                  • Lead-based paint peeling off or being unsafely removed from your house or a neighbour’s. Previous shoddy renovations.
                  • Soil and house dust.
                  • Food (lead particles can coat the skin of vegetables; wash before eating).
                  • Lead-painted toys or furniture, some Ayurvedic and Chinese herbal medicines.
                  • Pica: children eating dirt or paint.
                  • Hobbies: particularly indoor shooting and leadlighting.
                  • Drinking water from lead pipes.
                  EFFECTS ON CHILDREN

                  • Can be permanent and irreversible.
                  • Low levels are often undetected: no obvious symptoms. Child might be fatigued, irritable, losing weight, pale or weak.
                  • Can lead to learning disabilities, diminished IQ, behavioural problems, malformed bones, organ damage, hearing problems, slow growth.
                  • Very high levels can cause seizures, coma, death.
                  WHAT PARENTS CAN DO

                  • Take your child to a GP. Ask for a blood test if there is concern about lead exposure. Make sure siblings are tested if high levels are found.
                  • Frequently wash your child’s hands, toys, dummies.
                  • Test house dust and soil, as well as paint (on furniture and house surfaces).
                  • Never dry-sand lead paint or acrylic that may have lead paint underneath.
                  • Paint lead surfaces with acrylic. Discard contaminated carpets. Replace or cover contaminated soil.
                  • If working with lead, wash clothes separately and shower before cuddling kids.

              • Gangnam Style

                “I think its just a useful diversion for this government s inability to deliver its brighter future.” – Yes! C’mon Garner do an investigation into the meth testing business now you have gone social warrior & suddenly give a shit about the poor.

        • Sabine

          Quote: The Auckland woman with the $78,000 debt said she was evicted from her Housing New Zealand house after it was found to be contaminated with methamphetamine. Despite being cleared of drugs by a CYF investigation, the woman said she was blacklisted by Housing NZ, forcing the family into emergency accommodation. Quote End

          Someone is lying, its either the women, or CYF or Winz.

        • Anne

          “I needed help due to my falling into a deep depression due to what I was getting accused of,” she said.

          That comment suggests to me she is telling the truth. Anyone who has been through a situation where false allegations are leveled at them and their denials etc. are not believed, knows how devastating the consequences can be.

          “They are currently not eligible for a Housing NZ house, and have admitted to using meth in their past three Housing NZ properties,” he said.

          A convenient re-write of what really happened methinks. A typical Public Service track covering response if my former experiences are any indication – although not to do with Winz or Housing NZ.

        • alwyn

          I think the word you mean is “deny” rather than “refute”.
          Refute means
          “1.prove (a statement or theory) to be wrong or false; disprove”
          Her claim may be true but I can see no proof of the statement.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Your Prime Minister doesn’t know the difference either.

            • alwyn

              “Your Prime Minister”.
              I really think you should be saying “OUR Prime Minister”.
              Whether you like it or not, and assuming you are a New Zealander, he is your PM as well.

    • Chooky 1.2

      +100 Paul… re ‘Beneficiaries $417 million in debt to WINZ’

      USURY is what this jonkey nact government is about and it is contrary to what the founding values and principles of egalitarian New Zealand was all about…and it is a violation of Maori culture and heritage

      Definition of usury:

      …the action or practice of lending money at unreasonably high rates of interest.
      …”the medieval prohibition on usury”
      …synonyms: extortionate money lending, shylocking; informal loan-sharking
      archaic…interest at unreasonably high rates.

      A history of Usuary:

      Usury (/ˈjuːʒəri/[1][2]) is, today, the practice of making unethical or immoral monetary loans that unfairly enrich the lender. Originally, usury meant interest of any kind. A loan may be considered usurious because of excessive or abusive interest rates or other factors.
      Historically in Christian societies, and in many Islamic societies today, charging any interest at all can be considered usury.[3][4][5] Someone who practices usury can be called a usurer, but a more common term in contemporary English is loan shark.
      The term may be used in a moral sense—condemning taking advantage of others’ misfortunes—or in a legal sense where interest rates may be regulated by law.
      Historically, some cultures (e.g., Christianity in much of Medieval Europe, and Islam in many parts of the world today) have regarded charging any interest for loans as sinful.
      Some of the earliest known condemnations of usury come from the Vedic texts of India.[6]
      Similar condemnations are found in religious texts from Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (the term is riba in Arabic and ribbit in Hebrew).[7] At times, many nations from ancient China to ancient Greece to ancient Rome have outlawed loans with any interest. Though the Roman Empire eventually allowed loans with carefully restricted interest rates, the Christian church in medieval Europe banned the charging of interest at any rate (as well as charging a fee for the use of money, such as at a bureau de change)…

  2. Rodel 2

    Not a bad interview this morning,7.30ish by Susy F with the P.M..on the housing crisis (sorry-..’housing challenges’).
    She allowed him to waffle on sounding baffled, trying to evade answering, …. ‘the reality is ‘… ‘most New Zealanders’…. ‘of course the previous Labour government didn’t do a helluva lot.’….etc. etc. Little by Little he’s losing his grip.

    • Wyndham 2.1

      Yes Rodel.
      An amazing flow of largely meaningless drivel. Con-man extraordinaire. When will the good folk of this country see the man for what he is?
      Or should that be for what he isn’t?

      • Bearded Git 2.1.1

        Agreed Rodel and Wyndham. Key completely unfocused and rambling. Not for the first time. He was probably contemplating yesterday’s Reid Research poll showing his popularity at 36.7 where once this poll had him in the 60’s. It’s impossible to stick the teflon back on once it has flaked…..and he sounded flaky in that interview….Paul has posted the audio address below.

        • gangnam style

          Every second word Tolley said on RNZ on last nights Checkpoint was ‘meth lab meth lab meth lab’ (OK I exaggerate but she was repeating it over & over like a chant)

          • framu

            almost as if she was instructed

            notice how often nat MPs say that in regards to state housing?

          • Bearded Git

            Yes and on The Panel a few weeks ago an expert said in most cases all that needed to be done in “Meth Lab Houses” was wash the walls, carpets and curtains rather than the massive total recladding costing tens of $1000’s that is being done in most cases now-operators have turned this into a nice little earner while at the same time causing state houses to be out of service.

            My understanding is the “meth lab” houses represent a tiny fraction of state housing stock-any info on this out there?

            • Gangnam Style

              Also as a side note, it was on that Mihingarangi Forbes show last Sunday about Talleys workers being sacked for failing drug tests. Yet when this guy on the show got his own test done privately it came back clean so Talleys had to reinstate him. Who needs unions eh?

    • greywarshark 2.2


      • greywarshark 2.2.1

        When will the good folk of this country see….? I am beginning to wonder how many in this country are good folk. I am losing respect for fellow NZs who can happily go about their business finding sneers to belittle those suffering hardship and indignity.

        I guess it was the good folk that were off in their 4WDs without a care knowing they would be saved at great expense of money and time and sacrifice of others’ rest and family time. This while more ordinary people unable to afford such foolhardy outings, face demands from the gummint for huge amounts of money they don’t have, just for the necessities of life.

        And the government itself keeps being elected so it can go on making a hash of being responsible, planning for the country, enabling businesses that are good employers to flourish and employ locals, and what about government managing the economy prudently and intelligently.

        What do the ‘good folk’ think about this – ‘She’ll be right’ (I’m all right!). I think they are aliens come down amongst us. Try to recognise them and keep them at a distance, as you never know when their chests will break open and a new foul heart will ooze its way out to continue the species.

    • TC 2.3

      A decent interviewer would have dissected his dribble and wiped his face with it.

      Letting him wibble on exposes nothing new and lets him off the hook.

      She is ineffective as designed

      • Bearded Git 2.3.1

        I’d normally agree totally TC-Susie not up to the job-but this morning allowing him to dribble on (he couldn’t be stopped per the booted-out-of-house episode) kind of worked to show him up as the duplicitous [supply other adjectives here] character he is.

        • TC

          Thats not news though is it he does that all the time.

          However if she did a half decent job and didnt allow his scripted BS you increase the chance he puts his foot in it.

          Letting him ramble plays into nacts hands as hes perfected that years ago.

          • whispering kate

            She needed to shut off his microphone and then say “have you finally finished, can I now continue my question”. Some hope of that.

  3. b waghorn 3

    In the budget tomorrow will be lots of money to build flash hotels for wealthy tourists and SFA for people without homes

  4. adam 4

    If you interested on a different view on China – from the inside. Try this blog, some awesome resources. Very new, and is updated, when they can.

  5. Paul 5

    Suzie Ferguson shows that our PM doers not care for the nation’s most vulnerable citizens.
    “Isn’t it grotesque to dangling tax cuts while there are families living in motels and cars?”

    • Rodel 5.1

      Yes Paul. That was a good final question: Note the dodgy answer.
      “Isn’t it grotesque to dangling tax cuts while there are families living in motels and cars?”

  6. Tautoko Mangō Mata 6

    It is interesting to see that US is trying to kneecap the World Trade Dispute Settlement Body, no doubt so as to a means of introducing its own ISDS system through the back door via TPP and TTIP.
    “Greg Shaffer on the Appellate Body Reappointment Controversy”

    Now, the USTR has taken its most extreme step to date by proclaiming that it will block the reappointment of the South Korean judge Seung Wha Chang. (Appellate Body members are elected for a four-year term, renewable once). The reason given is not because Mr. Chang demonstrated a lack of judicial competence or independence. On the contrary, Mr. Chang is a former national judge who has a doctorate from Harvard Law School and is the endowed Nomura Visiting Professor of International Financial Systems there. Rather, the USTR opposes judge Wha Chang because he participated in decisions against the United States.
    The United States has a history of building and undermining international institutions. Following the horrors of WWI, an isolationist US Senate refused to ratify the Versailles Treaty, which drastically impaired the new Permanent Court of International Justice. Then, after the horrors of WWII, the Roosevelt administration spurred the creation of the United Nations and the International Court of Justice. Later, in the 1980s, the Reagan administration withdrew from recognizing the ICJ’s administration when the ICJ decided against it in the Nicaragua case, undermining that body.

    It takes decades to create international institutions, often built out of tragedy. They can be undone overnight. With the Transpacific Partnership uncertain, will President Obama’s legacy on trade be destroying the WTO?

    NZ should not ratify the TPP. It is a big mistake to be bound to the US.

  7. Chooky 7

    Suzie Ferguson indulges in a little unthinking USA anti Russia, anti Putin propaganda…and is complicit in blaming Russia for the shooting down of the Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 in July 2014 in Ukraine… This despite international evidence to the contrary

    ‘BBC shrugs off Kiev’s demand to say ‘Russian aggression’ instead of ‘civil war’ ‘

    ‘‘It remains our belief’: US insists rebels downed MH17 with BUK missile, ignores Dutch report’

  8. adam 8

    Oh my goodness. Samantha Bee gets a incredible interview with Frank Schaeffer, the guy who was instrumental in establishing the religious right in the USA, and around the world.

  9. Puckish Rogue 9

    So budget time…

    I’m not going to predict exactly what is in the budget (my contacts have gone cold ;-)) but what I will predict is that there’ll be something in there no ones expecting that will take the wind out of the oppositions sails

    This prediction is based on nothing more then the prior history of National doing something different and encroaching on the left side of politics

    • TC 9.1

      Repurposing labour policy as their own seems to be SOP.

    • b waghorn 9.2

      Yes there’s no doubt there will be , but instead of reporters seeing it as the opposition forcing the government to act, they’ll run around like giddy little twerps trying to embaress the opposition.

  10. Anne 10

    It had to happen:

    Helen Clark’s enemies are at it again. This time in New York. They can’t bear the thought of an ultra- intelligent and strong woman such as Helen Clark having that sort of power.

  11. Gangnam Style 11

    I was thinking the $1000 a week loan for motels was a good example of why the so called ‘public/private model’ of WINZ & HNZ is a load of shit & just adds to costs & wastes time.

  12. Rosie 12

    PM aint bovvered by his declining popularity and says he “slept like a baby”

    Don’t babies wake up in the night crying with a wet nappy?

    • joe90 12.1

      Bob Dole after his presidential flop – “I slept like a baby. I woke up every three hours and cried.”

      • Rosie 12.1.1

        Lols. Not a bad line for a Republican.

        Our PM might have also woken up in the middle of the night demanding a bottle.

        Maybe “slept like a log” would have been more suitable. Logs don’t cry and wet themselves.

  13. adam 13

    The forced privatisation of Public schools in Mexico. Government response to claims this is taking jobs and hurting education?? Firing anyone who opposes the so called reforms.

  14. adam 14

    OK last videos of the day.

    The Coup d’état in Brazil is being exposed slowly.

    And the coup leader is having his house protested, with the usual response from the right.

  15. Et Tu Brute 15

    This story isn’t going to go away anytime soon. In short; highly respected Rotorua journalist Phil Campbell fired off some question to Labour’s Rotorua LEC. He got a reasonable reply and would have left it at that. The candidate’s husband however jumped in and CCd Phil Campbell into a rant in which Phil Campbell was called a ‘nobody’.

    Maybe I am old fashioned but I don’t believe anybody is a nobody. As Phil Campbell said in his reply, nobodies vote. Nobodies can become somebodies. Everybody deserves that basic human dignity and respect of being a human being, not a nobody. And can you get more elitist by inference suggesting you, in contrast, are a somebody?

    When will Labour get serious about disciplining its candidates and sticking to its values? These closet rightists need to either get out of politics or join National. It is simply embarrassing to have them representing the party of the average worker.

    • joe90 15.1

      Yes, halfwit repeater repeating won’t go away.

      • Et Tu Brute 15.1.1

        You don’t think it is at all relevant?

        • Colonial Viper

          Poor political and media management at the local level.

          • Et Tu Brute

            Exactly. But that is why there are, or I believe there was, strong guidelines on public comment and interaction with the media and rules about bringing the party into disrepute.

            • joe90

              bringing the party into disrepute.

              If it was something particularly egregious, like, oh I don’t know, a personal relationship with a convicted criminal ratfucker or touching up little girl’s hair, I might give a fuck.

              • Et Tu Brute

                Well unlike you then I seem to have some standards for people I want to represent me.

  16. Draco T Bastard 16

    When myths of education become reality

    More recently Berliner, Glass and Associates produced a successor to the Berliner and Biddle publication entitled 50 Myths and Lies that Threaten America’s Public Schools – The Real Crisis in Education (2014). In the interim between the two works the influence of student testing has grown significantly and a plethora of vested interests has moved into the education space for ideological, political and financial reasons. Over three decades later the myths identified by Berliner, Biddle and subsequent writers have assumed the status of ‘facts’ in the eyes of many (Sahlberg, 2014), with additional myths/’facts’ added to the mix in a continuous, cumulative fashion, thereby adding to the strength and acceptance of the movement which, as will be seen, is thus self-fulfilling, with myth becoming reality.

    And this is what Charter Schools are for – to undermine and destroy public education so that the profiteers can make even more money from the public purse.

    • Ad 17.1

      Those shareholders had plenty of time to get alternative funding proposals together. They we commercially lazy for too long.

      I have little sympathy for farmer-investors who have had over a decade to force change and/or amalgamate with the other dominant players and/or persuade central government to amalgamate the industry together for meat, just as they did for dairy in the formation of Fonterra.

      Instead the Chinese stepped in, which means structural change for the meat industry is now permanently ruled out.

      The Chinese takeover has upsides as well as downsides.

  17. Gangnam Style 19

    This is when I first heard of Mike Sabin, was when he used to go on telly talking about the harm of P,


    SO there’s your National/Meth scare link from 2008. Does Methcon offer testing/cleaning services as well? I did read somewhere that basically there is only one tester in the whole country.

  18. Chooky 20

    Monsanto…those bastards

    (oops doesnt the ACT Party support Monsanto ?)

    • Ad 20.1

      Monsanto are going to get swallowed up by the German seeds multinational Bayer. They’re just holding out for something in the region of $130 per share.

  19. Enough is Enough 21

    Go Steven Adams

    Awesome result

    Much respect

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