Open mike 25/12/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 25th, 2012 - 69 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

69 comments on “Open mike 25/12/2012”

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  1. Morrissey 1
    25 December 2012 at 7:17 am

    A Merry Christmas to all Students of Comedy and Comedians

    That bloke in Auckland who’s had his name suppressed, Jimmy Savile, Sacha Baron Cohen….2012 has been the Year of Reassessment of the Comedian.

    Thanks to everyone who read about and debated the issue of Sacha Baron Cohen’s monstrous behaviour—even if you raged, obfuscated or indignantly denied that your favorite comedian was a moral imbecile. For many of you, having had to think for the first time about the politics of laughter, it wasn’t a pleasant experience. You may still insist that Baron Cohen’s behaviour was simply fun, or ironic, or “edgy” or “pushing the envelope”, but from now on you’ll also have that nagging doubt, called a conscience, in your mind when—if—you watch Bruno again.

    And you SHOULD watch it again if you want. Please don’t feel bad if you watch a video of Bruno or Borat or The Dictator from now on; they’re funny and you have my blessing if you fall about laughing as you watch them. Only from now on, perhaps, you’ll be a tad more aware of what is happening when he interviews that poor fellow captioned “Terrorist group leader, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade”, and just what Baron Cohen and his producers were quite deliberately doing.

    Coming up after the Holiday break: WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT SEINFELD.

    • Populuxe1 1.1
      25 December 2012 at 10:23 am

      “Coming up after the Holiday break: WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT SEINFELD.”

      Why? Because he’s Jewish? I don’t find him funny, but that doesn’t seem to be what your agenda is. I’m surprised you haven’t rehashed the whole Woody Allen incest thing. What next? Blood libel? Merry goddam Christmas to you too.

      • Morrissey 1.1.1
        27 December 2012 at 7:33 pm

        Because he’s Jewish?

        No, we need to have a critical look at Seinfeld because he’s a nasty ideologue with a particularly objectionable modus operandi.

        I don’t find him funny,

        Well, I do. I find Sacha Baron Cohen funny too, most of the time. And Bob Hope. But they are (or were) all shills for some unconscionably evil enterprises.

        …but that doesn’t seem to be what your agenda is.

        Our analysis incorporates some study of their comedy routines, naturally, but our agenda is of course to encourage people to engage critically with the material they watch, and think about why they are laughing at official victims (in the Occupied Territories) or sneering callously at the down and out on the streets of American cities.

        I’ve refrained from commenting on a line and a half of wild and choleric ranting by Populuxe1, where he riffs insanely about “incest” and “blood libel”.

  2. AwakeWhileSleeping 2
    25 December 2012 at 8:06 am

    Borat was awful and I couldn’t watch the hurt inflicted upon other innocent people for the entire film. I think I watched the first 10 minutes before leaving in disgust. I found it as entertaining as watching animals being tourtured. When Bruno came out I didn’t bother…some of the Dictator material I found funny but after Borat I only watched short clips on youtube.

    Seinfeld!? Oi vey! I liked Seinfeld. Looking forward to a new prospective in the new year to grow my mind. Politics of comedy is intellectually stimulating.

    Merry Christmas and joy to you in 2013 Morrissey.

  3. karol 3
    25 December 2012 at 8:33 am

    Will Hutton on the Bankster scam that made banksters rich, at the expense of the majority of us.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/23/banking-reform-ubs?CMP=twt_gu

    All their divisions that trade interest rate derivatives on their own account report huge profits running into billions. Where does that profit come from?

    The answer is it comes largely from you and me. Global banking, intertwined with the global financial services and asset-management industry, has emerged as a tax on the world economy, generating much activity and lending that has not been needed, but whose purpose is to make those who work in it very rich.

    • vto 3.1
      25 December 2012 at 1:27 pm

      If there was ever an area of our system that needs attacking, dismantling and re-setting it is the banking sector.

      It has indeed become nothing but a taxer, a rentier, a do-nothing waste of space draining our daily toil from us before it even hits our wallets.

      Tha banking system is inorganic evil.

      • vto 3.1.1
        25 December 2012 at 1:48 pm

        It is entirely feasible to have a system of credit without the destruction that comes from interest. Interest needs to be peeled off from credit, amongst more.

        • weka 3.1.1.1
          25 December 2012 at 2:42 pm

          Got an example vto?

          • vto 3.1.1.1.1
            25 December 2012 at 3:18 pm

            Well no, it was just my minds creation, but I have a lot of faith in those… It would go like this – zero percent interest rates, which is almost the case already.

            But of course that too doesn’t quite resolve the issue, which is credit’s reach into society to such an extent that it becomes part of the fabric. Best example of this being the housing market. Housing values are to the level they are entirely due to the issue of credit (interest bearing or otherwise, virtually, following the logic). If interest rates were zero housing values would probably stay right up of course, but who would waste time issuing credit if that ws the case? Perhaps government or some other non-profit or joint-between-stakes approach. The urge to keep issuing credit due to its profitable nature needs to be taken out.

            The only problem with removing the right ot issue credit (print money) from private banks and placing it elsewhere is that, humans being humans, we will find some way to work it to an advantage. Of course if it was placed with a government type organisation then the urge to use it for political advantage (rather than private profit advantage as now) is smack in the face. The disadvantages with this are probably greater than if it remained with private, given the power resting with government.

            Methinks I need to read more on it and do more thinking but one thing is sure and, using the example above, keeping house values high surely advantages private banks only and I fail to see the use in this, especially when other areas are bereft of funds (those funds being our daily toil). I mean, imagine if instead of one third of your working toiling week going to pay for your roof, it was only one quarter or one tenth……. not hard to see the results.

            There is no advantage to high capital values. All it does is require people to take on debt. I like Foodstuffs approach when it comes to buying and selling New Worlds and PaknSaves and hmmm four squares. etc. What they do is require the sale of any of their supermarkets to be at a multiple of one years earnings (as I recall..), and be to an approved operator through their system. What this does it focus attention on revenue and income instead of capital. This means owners get ownership easier and without silly cripping debt. And this is the right approach – hence their success.

            Our current obsession with capital over revenue is destructive. The banking system prefers an obssession with capital of course.

            bit of a ramble but full belly and sleepy christmas eyes …

            • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1.1
              25 December 2012 at 4:34 pm

              Of course if it was placed with a government type organisation then the urge to use it for political advantage (rather than private profit advantage as now) is smack in the face. The disadvantages with this are probably greater than if it remained with private, given the power resting with government.

              Unless you make government democratic rather than hierarchical thus having it being one person one vote for the creation and use of that money.

              Our current obsession with capital over revenue is destructive.

              It’s a it more complex than that. What we have is a requirement to get the capital (money) back plus revenue. What we need to do is change it so that money used to build something productive (power stations, telecommunications, high tech fab plant) doesn’t need to produce a monetary return or even pay for itself. What it provides is all that’s required.

  4. karol 4
    25 December 2012 at 8:46 am

    A new report on temperatures recorded over time in West Antarctica concludes the area has been warming faster than previously thought:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/24/science/earth/west-antarctica-warming-faster-than-thought-study-finds.html?_r=0

    • RedLogix 4.1
      25 December 2012 at 9:26 am

      Very interesting karol. Yet while this is disturbing in itself, the most dramatic threat in West Antarctica is not so much the surface and air termperatures … but the sea temperatures.

      What most people don’t really grasp is that the WAIS (West Antarctic Ice Shelf) is grounded well below sea-level. This means that if warm water gets between the base of the glacier and the bed-rock it can be broken up very rapidly.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Antarctic_Ice_Sheet

      Back in 2009 I posted this:

      Worse still Naish and his colleagues are now faced with clear evidence that the WAIS does not necessarily melt in a linear fashion, rather it is prone to highly unstable events that could lead to massive breakups, potentially adding up to 3.2m of average sea level rise in quite short periods of time. And due to the way the earth’s gravitational field works, that average rise would not be distributed evenly over the earth’s surface; in some places like North America the rise could be up to 4.0m…within our, or our children’s, lifetimes.

      Unassailable Evidence

      That’s 3-4m within a decade.

      More info:

      http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wcc.110/pdf

  5. Jenny 5
    25 December 2012 at 9:18 am

    For their down playing of climate change and their willingness to be part of an administration that will allow the <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escarpment_Mine_Project<Massive Opencast, (Escarpment) coal mine at Denniston to proceed.

    The Green Party get awarded the Lump of Coal.

    Give a Lump of Coal for Christmas

    Traditionally lumps of coal was the gift given to children who have been naughty. In the past several years this holiday tradition has taken on a bit of a twist, with people giving lumps of coal to each other for fun or as a way of indicating displeasure.

    Children (and pets) may be given lumps of coal from their parents or their teachers to indicate that they’ve been misbehaving. Coal lumps may be given to bosses, colleagues and politicians anonymously to indicate frustration, disapproval or anger over the job they are doing.

    While Green Party leaders may be lauded by both Labour and National and their allies in the MSM and the unions for their “acceptance of the realities of coalition government”, their “responsibility” and their “pragmatism” and their prioritising of jobs and economics over the environment……

    It is for this ‘pragmatic’ behaviour, (in reality a sick sell out), that the Green Party get my lump of coal in their stocking this Christmas mourning.

    • RedLogix 5.1
      25 December 2012 at 9:33 am

      At the same time Jenny if a Labour/Green govt were to get into power and then attempt to de-carbonise the NZ economy by 10% in 2015, and each year thereafter… they would be thrown out in the 2017 election. If not sooner by massive protests in the streets.

      The New Zealand public is not yet ready for this. If they were they would be demanding action even from this current government.

      That is the problem. Not the Green Party.

      • Jenny 5.1.1
        25 December 2012 at 10:03 am

        I call bullshit on this.

        Twenty thousands marched to stop mining on conservation land. There are dozens of environmental groups in existence and being set up.

        Many thousands in this country have protested for nuclear free and anti aparthied and anti war.

        Where is the political will for the massive protests and pressure you claim are in support of doing nothing, to come from?

        The only political pressure to continue with the fossil fuel economy is coming from the fossil fuel and roading lobbies themselves. Obviously this lobby has intimidated the Greens. I suppose with all their money and power this lobby will try and drum up some sort of fake mass opposition movement. But so far there is no sign of it.

        The Greens are being frightened by shadows.

        You say that the New Zealand public is not ready for this. I say that through cowardice and ignorance of New Zealand history no lead is being given by those who should be giving it.

        As long as there is no lead being given, what can people do, other than what they are doing now, in their small groups?

        • RedLogix 5.1.1.1
          25 December 2012 at 10:31 am

          What do you think you are achieving by being confrontational with me?

          Yes change is happening. Yes there are groups who are doing fantastic work and I hugely respect the time and energy they are putting into it. Eventually it will bring results.

          But the fact is that de-carbonising the New Zealand economy will have a real, direct impact on how we live our lives. The large majority of ordinary people are, for a whole bunch of reasons, some better than others … are simply not emotionally ready for that change.

          And right now any political party that seriously challenged that fact would be slaughtered by the media. Hell look at the hammering we got for simply passing a law to stop adults from assaulting children. The S59 Reform was the turning point that let John Key into power… what hope if we try and take their cars and toys away from them before they are willing to let them go?

          Quit attacking your allies. Really. What I’m looking for is less emotional noise and some hard sense about how to deal with this constructively.

          • Jenny 5.1.1.1.1
            25 December 2012 at 4:23 pm

            Maybe it is not New Zealanders “who are simply not emotionally ready”, but the Greens.

            If you want some hard sense about how to deal with this then you have openly and strongly demand the actions that are required.

            The Green Party policy is no new coal mines. This is a realistic policy. Globally coal extraction and use has been identified as the number 1 cause of climate change. Taking a hard line against the coal industry is what is required.

            But instead the Green Party are prepared to ditch their principle of no new coal mines for cabinet positions.

            • weka 5.1.1.1.1.1
              25 December 2012 at 5:26 pm

              “But instead the Green Party are prepared to ditch their principle of no new coal mines for cabinet positions.”

              Liar.

        • weka 5.1.1.2
          25 December 2012 at 10:32 am

          “Obviously this lobby has intimidated the Greens. ”

          [citation needed]

          • Jenny 5.1.1.2.1
            25 December 2012 at 3:44 pm

            What else could it be?

            • Jenny 5.1.1.2.1.1
              25 December 2012 at 4:10 pm

              Why are the Green Party shying away from raising Climate Change?

              Is it cowardice?

              Is it intimidation?

              Is it lack of faith in New Zealanders?

              Is it corruption?

              • RedLogix …
                25 December 2012 at 5:08 pm

                The simplest explanation will do.

                How about when Russel Norman mentioned ‘printing money’ a short while ago (another word for the quantitative easing that numerous other Western nations have been doing flat out for the last 5 years or so) … and the media instantly jump on him as ‘crazy, irresponsible, extremist and generally loopy’?

                Now imagine if he came out and said that in 2015 New Zealand was going to shut down it’s carbon use by 10%? Or more because National had delayed acting?

                The Greens would be crucified by the John Armstrongs and Fran O’Sullivan’s of the media. It would be used constantly all through the election campaign as a massive stick to beat them with.

                And the point of loosing another election in 2014 is?

            • weka 5.1.1.2.1.2
              25 December 2012 at 5:24 pm

              “What else could it be?”

              You’re being disingenuous Jenny. We’ve had plenty of conversations about what else it could be. See also RL’s comment.

              At least you are admitting that you are making this shit up.

              There is a world of difference between the following two statements:

              “Obviously this lobby has intimidated the Greens.”

              “I don’t understand the Green’s strategy and I’m worried that they will make too many compromises on CC issues if they become part of govt”

              The fact that you use the former, even when you know that it is a lie, tells us alot about your motivations.

        • bad12 5.1.1.3
          25 December 2012 at 12:45 pm

          When, and only when, the middle class see pictures on their TVs of waves breaking upon the tarmac of Wellington Airport and rolling through the departure lounge will they be snapped out of their comfort zone long enough to ‘demand’ action,

          The Green Party is only 10-11% of the vote and therefor can hardly DICTATE to the wider electorate that action has to occur now,(even if the consensus of science says it must),

          Unless you suggest a 1 party Green state any such actions where the majority are being dictated to against it’s will would collapse the vote of any coalition that the Greens were part of at the following election and the Tories would just reverse whatever changes the Greens had made,

          I should cop some flak for this, BUT, the future of the planet does not rely upon whether the Denniston plateau is mined or remains un-mined, the same amount of carbon WILL be produced to the atmosphere by whomever the coal is to be sold to whether that coal comes from Denniston or somewhere else in the world,

          My view is that the Greens should walk away from Kyoto, impose a carbon tax and spend that into the economy planting trees everywhere until such time as there are no more places to plant those trees or the amount of trees planted makes New Zealand a carbon neutral country, secondly a portion of such a tax should be set aside for research into technology’s which reduce carbon emission and technology’s which are capable of capturing and storing carbon already present in the atmosphere,

          As a Green Party member i am insulted by your use of the word ‘cowardice’ in reference to the Green Party and would ask you, what would you rather have a Green Party that gets done what is possible with regards the climate and social justice. or a Green Party that in Government for the first time commits electoral suicide…

          • Jenny 5.1.1.3.1
            25 December 2012 at 4:56 pm

            …..the future of the planet does not rely upon whether the Denniston plateau is mined or remains un-mined, the same amount of carbon WILL be produced to the atmosphere by whomever the coal is to be sold to whether that coal comes from Denniston or somewhere else in the world

            @bad12

            This is not the point.

            New Zealand produces 0.2% of green house gases. (This is from all sources agriculture included.) If New Zealand were to stop all emissions tomorrow, it would have little quantitive impact.

            New Zealand’s biggest contribution to stopping global warming can only be qualitative.

            http://www.pmcsa.org.nz/climate-change/

            “New Zealand is a small emitter by world standards – only emitting some 0.2% of global green house gases. So anything we do as a nation will have little impact on the climate – our impact will be symbolic, moral, and political”

            Sir Peter Gluckman Chief Science adviser to the Prime Minister

            A nationwide ban on coal mining and coal use, is the needed symbolic stand that Sir Peter Gluckman is talking about. Grabbing the world’s attention, inspiring millions to demand the same thing from their governments.

            Coal must be phased out, and soon.

            Stopping coal is the minimum that must be done to stop worldwide catastrophe.

            Stopping the Denniston open cast coal mine is a necessary first step on the way to that larger goal of stopping all coal mining.

            And is it really that hard?

            The mining and use of asbestos has been banned worldwide. It can be argued that the death and destruction from continuing to mine and burn coal will dwarf that caused by asbestos.

            • bad12 5.1.1.3.1.1
              25 December 2012 at 5:41 pm

              Jenny, but it IS the point, China, India, and the US to name 3 are country’s who use coal as an integral part of their economy’s, and crowd power in all 3 economy’s is sadly lacking to have that use banned,

              We can as a country only proceed so far and as i point out above, i would prefer that we walk away from Kyoto and instead resort to a carbon tax to be used to plant trees of sufficient number so as to get us as an economy as close to being carbon neutral as possible, along with a like investment in research to find technology’s which are capable of capturing carbon emissions at source and research into a means of mas carbon capture from the atmosphere, that is the best example we can show the world,

              So as you have not seen fit to answer my question on whether or not you favor a suicidal Green presence in the next or any future Government i suppose i have to take your lack of reply as assent in that is what you favor,

              Simply because what you continue to propose is electoral suicide for the Greens…

      • Bill 5.1.2
        25 December 2012 at 10:31 am

        Have to partially disagree Red. I think the NZ public actually is ready and with just a little info and understanding, I believe they can be motivated to protest and pressure for action to be taken by government.

        To get action from above, it’s always been necessary to apply pressure from below.

        I think that’s where we’re at. Consider the general reaction in comments to the couple of posts I’ve put up so far on global warming. Just a couple of years back, I suspect those posts would have met with howls of derision.

        And we have a simple scientific fact to focus peoples’ minds and it’s not one you need a degree to grasp and/or explain. 4 degrees = impossible future. And the 4 degreesfigure isn’t coming from individual scientists or whatever, but from the World Bank and the International Energy Authority….very conservative institutions.

        I’m hopeful

        • RedLogix 5.1.2.1
          25 December 2012 at 10:38 am

          OK … but among the people I’m working with and meet; there is silence. Either they simply don’t want to know, or they suspect the truth and really don’t want to confront it.

          This is reflected in how the media has almost completely stopped talking about it as well.

          This is fear-driven behaviour. We won’t get the co-operation needed from the mass of people globally unless we can get them to confront that fear openly.

          I’m sure it can be done; it might even happen a lot sooner and faster than any of us imagine. But right now we’re at more of a ‘sticking point’ than a ‘tipping’ one.

          • weka 5.1.2.1.1
            25 December 2012 at 11:01 am

            People need (at least) these three things:

            – the skills and support to deal with the fear and cognitive dissonance. I see very little work being done on this in NZ.

            – information and a way of getting involved that allows them to take positive action that may save their children and grandchildren’s lives. Transition Towns and allied movements are leading the way on this. Everywhere in NZ now has some kind of positive action that can be done at an individual level.

            – information about CC that doesn’t tell them we’re all fuckd and going to die. That information needs to be presented at a lay person’s level. If the MSM media aren’t doing this, then how else can it be done?

          • Bill 5.1.2.1.2
            25 December 2012 at 11:06 am

            It’s true that there is a lot of silence. But silence is easily broken. And I know some people have devoted their energies to the act of avoidance…because it’s too scary or whatever.

            But I also know that other people are really receptive and just waiting for some nascent form of protest to form that they would then join in with.

            And when I’m done with these posts I know my energies are going to be focussed on helping to bring that opportunity about. And I know I have a shit hot talent for instigating grass/flax roots activism/protest – just I’ve been in ‘retired’ mode for several years.

            So maybe (putting aside the fact that I don’t think you live in these parts and that I wouldn’t know you from a bar of soap if you walked right up to me) we’ll get to say ‘hello’ out on the streets sometime in the New Year 😉

          • Draco T Bastard 5.1.2.1.3
            25 December 2012 at 1:36 pm

            I suppose that depends upon where you think the sticking point is. From what I can make out it’s more with the politicians and business than with the people.

            • weka 5.1.2.1.3.1
              25 December 2012 at 2:35 pm

              Politicians and business people are always going to try and maintain the status quo. Important change gets led by the people. Enough people want something to change, and do something about it, politicians and business follows.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                25 December 2012 at 4:40 pm

                But that’s just it, they [politicians] don’t or, at least, most of them don’t. They seem to think that they’re there to lead the way rather than being representatives.

          • Jenny 5.1.2.1.4
            25 December 2012 at 5:12 pm

            … but among the people I’m working with and meet; there is silence. Either they simply don’t want to know, or they suspect the truth and really don’t want to confront it.

            This is reflected in how the media has almost completely stopped talking about it as well.

            Redlogix

            Exactly, this is why a strong lead on this issue at this time is vital. And why the Green Party decision to stop giving that lead at this time will prove to be a fatal mistake.

        • weka 5.1.2.2
          25 December 2012 at 10:43 am

          I partially agree, I think people are more ready now than they were. I just don’t think the Green Party should be leading the charge any more than they already are. Their experience over many elections now is that it is very easy for their floating voters to get scared off at election time. Either by MSM or NACT fearmongering, or by people not understanding MMP and voting for Labour to prevent NACT winning. The next election is crucial. I don’t think the GP should be risking anything at this point in time. Once they are in govt they may up the ante on CC.

          Instead, what we need is NGO action, from grassroots all the way through to corporate/business. Jenny is right about one thing, we need leadership. But we also need mass involvement at the community level. The 350 campaign some years ago mobilised alot of people, esp those no engaged in traditional political activism. What happened to that energy and action?

          I completely agree with what you said in the If thread – we need information that people can assimilate and work with rather than the ‘we’re all fucked and humanity is going extinct’ argument. The posts you’ve been doing on Anderson’s work strike a good balance: this is a very serious situation AND we are still able to do something so let’s do it.

        • karol 5.1.2.3
          25 December 2012 at 10:55 am

          To get action from above, it’s always been necessary to apply pressure from below.

          Agreed – and on all the pressing issues; climate, peak resources, poverty, sustainable economics, closing the inequality gap, measuring success in terms of activities that benefit society not any old economic activity, adequate social security, etc.

        • muzza 5.1.2.4
          25 December 2012 at 8:37 pm

          Merry Christmas Bill

          World Bank and the International Energy Authority….very conservative institutions

          Why on earth would you be hopeful about anything which was pushed by either of these two entities Bill?

          People are definitely not going to get what they ask for, and sooner than later, they will be yet again wondering how it went to far against what they imagined the solutions looked like!

          • Bill 5.1.2.4.1
            25 December 2012 at 9:10 pm

            Why on earth would you be hopeful about anything which was pushed by either of these two entities Bill?

            I’m not. But the fact that they are (rightly or wrongly is beside the point here) generally regarded as authoratative sources of information…and given their conservatism too…their latest prognoses on AGW serve as useful reference points.

    • weka 5.2
      25 December 2012 at 10:29 am

      Telling lies again Jenny? Please present some evidence that the GP supports mining of the Dennistion Plateau. And that evidence will have to concretely refute what the GP have on their own website.

      http://www.greens.org.nz/searchresults?search=denniston

      “BOOS and jeers from about 150 protestors greeted Prime Minister John Key as he entered Bathurst Resources’ new Wellington offices late yesterday.

      Mr Key was there to meet the management of the Australian mining company which is planning New Zealand’s biggest open cast mine on the West Coast. The PM and Energy and Resources Minister Phil Heatley were confronted by a crowd of environmental activists and Green Party MPs rallying against coal mining.

      National MP Simon Bridges and Labour’s West Coast MP Damien O’Conner had both slipped in to the building prior to the Prime Minister’s arrival. The Bathurst mine proposal is for the Denniston Plateau in the West Coast.

      The proposed mine site is on public conservation land near the largest current opencast mining operation in New Zealand, State-owned Solid Energy’s Stockton coal mine.
      Green Party Conservation spokesperson Eugenie Sage expressed her disappointment following the Prime Minister’s remarks in the House of Parliament that the Denniston mine could proceed due to historical consent.

      “It’s disappointing that the Prime Minister doesn’t seem to realise that the Conservation Minister still has an access application to consider,” Ms Sage said.

      “Coming here today is sending a strong signal to the Department of Conservation and the minister that the government will be approving this mine.””

      http://www.newswire.co.nz/2012/03/prime-minister-mines-boos-jeers-on-street/

      I guess what this really means is that the GP are lying through their teeth to get the votes and then intend to reneg on that once in govt and support the mining of the plateau 🙄

      You can’t have it both ways Jenny. You want the GP to protest things to do with CC, but when they do, you tell lies about them.

      • Jenny 5.2.1
        25 December 2012 at 4:06 pm

        I have never said that the Green Party are “against” mining the Denniston Plateau. I have said that the Green Party are prepared to bargain this away to get cabinet positions.

        This is something that you don’t deny.

        It is entirely possible to be against something, and still do the opposite.

        If the Green Party really wanted to stop Denniston they should immediately release a press statement now that they will not be part of any administration either National or Labour that let it proceed.

        This would certainly give the investors and shareholders at Bathurst Resources pause for thought, before ploughing any more money into developing this mine.

        • weka 5.2.1.1
          25 December 2012 at 5:17 pm

          “I have said that the Green Party are prepared to bargain this away to get cabinet positions.”

          Please show some evidence for that statement.

        • Polish Pride 5.2.1.2
          25 December 2012 at 5:30 pm

          The few politicians that I’ve spoken too have confirmed that it is only the top 4-5 cabinet ministers including the PM that get to effect any real change (with the exception of private members bills of course). The rest are just warming the bench and making up the numbers in the hope that one day they will be in the top 5. Perhaps the greens have realised this and have made a judgement call to let denniston go through so they can effect greater change with cabinet positions.. possibly even legislation to stop or at least phase out coal mining altogether amongst other things.

          • weka 5.2.1.2.1
            25 December 2012 at 5:38 pm

            Maybe they have PP. But your wondering out loud is different than Jenny telling lies about the GP by stating opinion as fact. She’s just making it up.

            Myself, I doubt that any decisions have been made at this stage. I also think that the GP has the potential to change MMP and how coalition govts form. No idea if they will though. Much depends on how many votes they get. It’s a long time until the next election.

            • Jenny 5.2.1.2.1.1
              26 December 2012 at 5:30 pm

              You are either deliberately making stuff up about what I have said or not said. Or do you just misunderstand it?

              • felixviper …
                26 December 2012 at 5:40 pm

                I think weka is being more than fair in pointing out your deductive leaps.

                When you say the greens have or haven’t issued a press release containing a specific hypothetical statement, that’s a verifiable fact.

                When you ascribe a motive as to why they have or haven’t issued this specific hypothetical statement, you’re making stuff up.

              • weka …
                27 December 2012 at 9:08 am

                What felix said.

                Jenny, anytime you want to produce ANY evidence that what you say about the GP is true, fine by me.

    • JK 5.3
      25 December 2012 at 7:22 pm

      Where did you get/hear this information from ? The wikipedia link is not working so I couldn’t verify it there, and I cannot find anything on the Green Party website about them downplaying either climate change or the Denniston mining effects. Please clarify.

  6. The Al1en 6
    25 December 2012 at 9:34 am

    Solo mums, I love you all the most.
    You have the most important job of all, and often have to do it under a barrage of criticism.
    Just remember “you only need a dick to run the country, it only takes a mother to raise a son.”

    What ever you do, don’t take Paula’s pills unless you want to.
    If my old girl had been coerced into stopping at one or two, I wouldn’t be 3 of 5.
    I’m just a dreamer, but you could have an Einstein, Hawkins, Dr Barnardos or Florence Nightingale, and let’s face it, they can’t get here soon enough. So make love, not Paula’s day. Get any stick at WINZ and we’ll come down and contracept their mouths.

    Track 9 @ http://www.al1en.org

    Alpha 1

    I hear what they say and I know that it’s rough. It beats you down.
    Every night on the news when the going gets tough. They put you down.
    You know solo mum, down my road, it’s all right. You aint so bad.
    You’re not on your own Alpha one, 3 of 5. Born Alpha tribe.

    Lift your head up little sister. Lift your face up to the son.
    Don’t let anyone say you’re shit, love. Make them always prove you’re wrong.
    Take that flower by the hand, love. And then you’ve got to make him understand.
    He’s got to stand up for all the sisters if he wants to be an Alpha man.

    I know what they say and I know that it’s wrong. But they wheel you out.
    Every night on the news when they’ve done something wrong. Appease the crowd.
    You know solo mum, on my road, we’re all right. We aint so bad.
    You’re not on your own Alpha one, 3 of 5. with your Alpha pride.

    Keep your head up pretty sister. Hold your face up to the sun.
    We don’t let anyone say we’re shit, love. We don’t ever let anyone say we’re wrong.
    Take the flower by his hand, love. Teach him how to grow up strong.
    You only need a dick to run the country. You only need a mother to raise a son.

  7. bad12 7
    25 December 2012 at 3:12 pm

    Merry Christmas to Te Pati Maori, i have had cause to ponder today just what it would take for the once promising Maori Party to come to it’s senses,

    The loss of both Sharple’s and Flavell’s seats in 2014 should just about do it…

  8. Populuxe1 8
    25 December 2012 at 4:14 pm

    Little birds tell me that Tony Ryall is to be the new minister for education. Quelle surprise.

    • Northshoreguynz 8.1
      25 December 2012 at 5:12 pm

      Mmmm, now that will be interesting. Who gets health?

      • karol 8.1.1
        25 December 2012 at 5:27 pm

        Return of Nick Smith?

        • bad12 8.1.1.1
          25 December 2012 at 9:06 pm

          The Carter’s in or out of the Parliament confuse me,but, the current one with the back-woodsy type portfolio that i cannot remember the name of and who is said to be the next Speaker of the House,

          I think Nick Smith is going to pick up Carter’s portfolio when they drag Him back from Siberia for a vodka laced rehabilitation, it’s thought that Carters portfolio is so obscure,(it must be if i can’t remember what it is). that even Smith is unlikely to make a hash of it, but hats off to Nick i bet it don’t take him long to do so…

    • bad12 8.2
      25 December 2012 at 5:25 pm

      Do you mean the little bird on the TV news the other night, me thinks that Slippery will keep His word on Hekia remaining right where she is,(that’s cause for definite surprise),

      I cannot see anyone in Nationals line-up capable of doing the job Ryall has with the Health portfolio have and Hekia is doing one hell of a good job destroying the peace of mind of the Education sector which is what i believe the outcome sought by Slippery’s National Government really is,

      Wreck the ability of the sector to function properly, destroy any individual schools ability to budget properly with NO-NO-Pay and across the field ‘they’ are halfway to replacing the Boards with hand picked Commissioners,

      Hell the Bizness sector has probably been in Slippery’s ear about just how expensive it is to set up a charter school and why should they have to when there are 1000’s of schools out there just ripe for a negative take-over from the charter schools mob…

      • Populuxe1 8.2.1
        25 December 2012 at 6:09 pm

        No, my little birds perch considerably closer to power than the media

        • Populuxe1 8.2.1.1
          25 December 2012 at 6:20 pm

          The words “break the unions” were uttered

          • Puddleglum 8.2.1.1.1
            27 December 2012 at 12:31 pm

            Tony Ryall should remember that all political careers end in failure.

            If he succeeded in ‘breaking the unions’ in education then that would amount to the most radical ‘reform’ of the education sector achieved by any government. So much for this being a ‘centrist’ government.

            It would also lead to the crumbling of what has been a consistently high quality state education system and leave the door wide open to the overall educational quality reductions that come from privatising mass education (e.g., would one ‘provider’ ever share its ‘successful’ educational IP with another? If so, why? Markets inevitably create distortions in social systems of cooperation. :-)).

            I say this simply because the collective values of the teaching profession, as currently supported through a unionised workforce, are part of what is needed to produce quality public education. Those values are not the foundation of mass private education.

            So, if you are correct in that intention, Ryall’s appointment as education minister would either be a disaster for his career or a disaster for public education. If I were Ryall I would not want the former – for obvious reasons – and I also wouldn’t want the latter.

            Why would he wish to go down in history as the minister who undermined public education and initiated a decline in educational attainment in New Zealand’s children? The so-called ‘tail’ would inevitably lengthen significantly. (And don’t get me onto supposed high level ‘accountability’ measures to ensure schools/children ‘achieve’ – they would be laughable if they weren’t so dangerous.)

            (WYSIWYG doesn’t seem to appear as an option anymore for me.)

        • bad12 8.2.1.2
          25 December 2012 at 6:20 pm

          Sure it is, your little bird probably watched the same news item on TV3 as what i did…

          • Populuxe1 8.2.1.2.1
            25 December 2012 at 7:12 pm

            You are both incorrect and tiresome.

            • bad12 8.2.1.2.1.1
              25 December 2012 at 7:23 pm

              24 hours ago TV3 news was saying exactly the same as what you are about the future prospects of Hekia,

              Perhaps you could ask your ‘little birdy’ to be a lot less tardy in the future, after all what’s the point of having a ‘little birdy’ if they are beaten by the MSM in breaking the latest gossip…

              • RedLogix …
                25 December 2012 at 7:56 pm

                Well I’m inclined to take pop at his word. Nothing wrong with having scuttlebutt arrive from several independent sources….

              • Populuxe1 …
                25 December 2012 at 7:57 pm

                The media were speculating, quite accurately as it happens. I wasn’t. You seem to have the impression I was trying to impress you. mate, I wouldn’t [deleted]. [ B – Be nice 😉 ]

  9. Rogue Trooper 9
    25 December 2012 at 7:27 pm

    i read the other day, trees are not being replanted in our country as fast as they are being harvested.

    -Ent (whistle)
    (and that is not the Kaka’s fault either)

    🙂

  10. Crimson Nile 10
    25 December 2012 at 10:08 pm

    “Consumptionomics”

    This was just on National Radio. Worth while checking out, right now.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/writers/audio/2541235/chandran-nair-consumptionomics.asx

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