- Date published:
6:00 am, July 26th, 2018 - 89 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:
Open mike is your post.
For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).
Step up to the mike …
I don’t hold out much hope for a positive response from nurses to the current offer from DHBs.
Even the language from the state is dodgy.
Talking about asking the ministry about 500 extra nurses and moving forward the final ‘step’ for senior nurses.
500 extra nurses is nowhere near enough to get patient safety to a reasonable level.
For a lot of nurses the sticking point isn’t the wage rise, it is the dangerous understanding.
Pay parity in December next year is about 15 months too late.
People talk about Labour talking up pay rises, but I get the impression the Nurses union leadership has had a total overshoot on setting expectations as well.
the Nurses union leadership has had a total overshoot on setting expectations as well.
Not so much the union I suspect but a bunch of vociferous activists playing politics with the rank and file and setting the bar way higher than they know the Lab led govt. is able to immediately provide. There are other negotiations set to begin whose claims are equally as valid as the nurses.
What gets up your nose about activists, surely one of the base tennents of left wing thought. The rank and file are not easily lead, why would anyone expect us to now accept an offer that is the same as that rejected three times. Yes, negotiations of other groups has begun, they may have equal validity, but one of the base arguments Nurses make is to re-establish parity with Teachers, this offer comes nowhere near that and considering teachers have rejected 14% we are likely to be even further behind.
To link safe staffing to a wage negotiation is ridiculous, its not the employees responsibility to work for less to provide for more staff, the reason hopitals are short staffed is because nurses dont exist to fill the vacancies, its a simple matter of supply and demand. Reduced supply, high demand equals high remuneration in any other occupation.
You claim: why would anyone expect us to now accept an offer that is the same as that rejected three times.
Here is your own chief negotiator on the subject;
Suggest you listen to the Checkpoint item yesterday evening:
NZNO has recommended that the offer be accepted three times, no matter how you look at it a pig dressed in a suit is still a pig dressed in a suit.
Your response is an insult to your union negotiators who have been clearly working their guts out on your behalf. Hopefully it is not the majority mindset of the nurses, and they will follow the sensible course of action and acknowledge reality by accepting the latest offer.
Your response is an insult to hard working nurses who overwhelmingly supported rejecting all the previous DHB offers.
Union negotiators are clearly out of touch with their members, thus are wasting time dragging out this process accepting offers the majority of their members have so far rejected.
The union is my employee, i pay $20 per pay in fees to provide a salary that i can never achieve.
What is it with you, dont like a few uppitty women, the concept of servitude is long gone.
And that is the problem. Until you and others like you get it into your head that we are the union and we need to work together for all of us unions will be weak and toothless. The teeth or the power are the members. The unions are there to organise not magically draw agreements out of a hat.
Wouldn’t be the first time union leadership has appeared to be just a wee bit too chummy with the bosses Anny.
Kia kaha. The union REPRESENTS it’s members. The union or reps don’t decide for the members, the members decide. There IS enough money imo. Nurses should be paid a lot more.
The Union’s continued recommended acceptance of unsatisfactory offers in this dispute is unnecessarily dragging out the process, thus is counterproductive to members resolve.
Just up on rnz.
Chief activist, Danni Wilkinson are recommending the nurses turn down the latest offer. Why am I not surprised.
If this offer is turned down then don’t be surprised if the nurses end up with nothing and we will know who to blame.
So labour are proposing cuts to public services as funding won’t keep up with demand.
Isn’t that why they were voted in? To increase public service spending to match demand so it isn’t run into the ground
Well, if the nurses do reject the latest offer, that will be a real test for the government. If unionists get a sense they can just keep rejecting offers in the expectation that they will always get a better offer from the government, then that is what they will do.
However, for the government there will come a time when they say “enough is enough, we are not going any further.”
I suspect that this point has now been reached with the nurse pay negotiations.
So in that event, if the nurses say “no” to the current offer, and then they go on strike the government will just say, “you already have our best offer, we are not changing it even you do go on strike.”
We shall see.
What’s wrong with that?
We need more nurses and isn’t supply and demand what you believe in?
I think your analysis is correct Wayne. There is only so much the govt. of the day will take in situations like this. Go too far and the nurses could end up the losers.
It is not abnormal for demands to be met on an incremental basis and over a relatively short period of time. Given this present situation goes well beyond the nurses then it is inevitable there will need to be some flexibility on the part of the individual sectors when they enter their negotiations. The nurses union seems to have recognised this reality, but some of their members have yet to catch up.
“Go too far and the nurses could end up the losers.”
Nurses have nothing to lose. The DHB won’t offer anything less than what has already been offered.
In fact, accepting this offer will result in the public becoming the losers as more experienced nurses head offshore compounding the local shortfall, putting patient safety at further risk.
I would blame people with an attitude like yours.
The ‘reporting mechanisms’ involve a committee, paperwork….
All extra work, for an overworked staff, to tell administrators and bureaucrats what they have been told for the last 5 or so years.
500extra nurses when 1500 extra is the minimum.
I am curious Anne, why are you so anti this workforce requests?
You are correct that the nurses should not be expected to accept lower wages to enable more staff and as you note any parity with teachers is likely to be immediately lost.
The issue of inequality and unliveable income however cannot be resolved by simply increasing the wages of the low/’lower paid as nothing is surer to fuel an inflationary spiral as the relativity effect spreads to the productive sector. Both ends of the remuneration equation need to be addressed culminating in a more compressed remuneration band for ALL occupations and the logical way to achieve it is through progressive taxation with the loopholes closed. Unfortunately the coalition have closed this option off (and National have an ideology that moves in the opposite direction) and in terms of the nurses dispute it is not their concern but at some point in the not too distant future some gov will have to take this bull by the horns and probably as a component of a complete redesign of our economy which may well include UBI, life long education, retirement and god knows what else.(whatever happened with ‘the future of work’ commission ?)
Id like to think that the perfect time to address all these issues would be as we attempt to transition to a carbon neutral economy but thats probably too much to hope for as nobody, especially our politicians appears to have either a long term view nor the planning ability.
In the old days teachers got free tertiary study and then were bonded to become ‘teachers’ in NZ for a period of time. Might be time to think about this as well as all the other issues facing essential workers in the face, of rising population and less people wanting to become an essential worker aka nurse or teacher when you can do a law degree for example and earn $200+ p/h even better an environmental lawyer selling out at $500+ p/h, or Barry Hart types on $1000p/h … sadly a nation top heavy full of lawyers fighting each other might fuel another crisis… especially when they go to hospital and find not enough nurses or doctors to treat them… no police officers… no teachers… no paramedics… no social workers… etc
There are numerous graduate positions outside the public sector that pay equally poorly or worse, the problem is not solved by bonding in a few areas (and that can have a deterrent effect on entry uptake) and nor is recruitment from offshore any sort of panacea…the issues are structural and wont be solved by tinkering around the edges. The previous gov (and the one before to a lesser degree) attempted to control the inflationary impact by keeping settlements negative in real terms and covering shortfalls through immigration (along with its wage chilling effect)…we are seeing the results of that policy prescription …it is not a long term option though it can be effective for a period…that period is well and truly used up.
When successive governments and economists have moulded NZ into a low wage, high expenses economy then offer’s on paper for essential worker’s don’t exactly reflect the reality of the actual wage vs what standard of living they provide.
Nurses deserve every dollar they get. I think the circa $26 p/h as a starting wage for a registered nurse after a 3 year degree is too low.
Especially when the hospital CEO’s can be on circa $600,000 p/a…
The balance is wrong between pay rates in NZ, we need to even out the inequality of wages between the different staff running hospitals.
Likewise the pay rates between bus drivers and Auckland Transport Executives which probably have a similar discrepancy, while still the mantra is to keep those earning the least and in the coal face, earning as low a wage as possible and that is where the perceived savings should be.
It seems to be a mantra of the left that New Zealand is a low wage economy, the assertion seemingly being we are much worse than other comparable countries in that regard.
But I don’t think that really holds up.
New Zealand GDP is the middle of the OECD, a little bit lower than UK, France and Germany (around 10% lower). Australia and Canada are about 25% higher. Wages and salaries for government employees such as nurses, teachers, police officers in each of the nations I have mentioned, broadly reflect these differences in GDP.
For instance in the UK, qualified nurses start on 22,000 pounds or around $44,000. In Australia it seems to be around $50,000 for new nursing graduates. New Zealand is not put to shame by these figures. In fact we may be relatively better.
So New Zealand is not a particularly low wage economy. In relative terms we are about the same (or even better) as countries we typically compare ourselves to.
I appreciate that Auckland housing poses a particular problem with median house prices of around $810,00. Median house prices in Sydney are $1,150,000, so quite a bit higher. In London the median is 471,000 pounds or around $1,000,000. Also higher than Auckland, but there is a London allowance on most public sector salaries.
“It seems to be a mantra of the left that New Zealand is a low wage economy, ”
Ackshually, it was Bill English who was boasting about our low wage economy.
It should read… It seems to be the mantra of some on the left…
Not all lefties subscribe to that hypothesis. We’re not a low wage economy and never have been and most people know it. What has happened in NZ is that wage/salary inequalities have developed over a long period of time under both blue and red governments, and their needs to be adjustments put in place to bring people on a level playing field again.
Gosh, this is getting serious. I’ve agreed with Wayne twice today. 😯
Re the Avery incubators.
They seem to be capsule supplied with heat, air, and stuff for the newborn.
What are the tech issues that make them so hard to design and build?
It’s getting internationally-recognised quality certification that takes the effort – mountains of testing and paperwork.
Agreed @ Andrew Little. Although maybe Australia is our “oldest” mate, but is no longer actually our “best” mate (except on ANZAC or Melbourne Cup day).
Depends. In politics, just as in a personal friendship, sometimes calling out your mate will just annoy them, especially if it is seen as “lecture”. And it is on a policy that they entirely control.
Jacinda certainly found out that over Manus Island, which is why she never refers to it anymore. She was tackling them on an issue that is pretty serious for them. And as such, they made it perfectly plain to her not to keep raising it if she wanted a reasonable relationship with their PM.
Ah OK. Kind of like me calling out a mate who has a policy of beating his wife when she doesn’t behave the way he wants. I should mind my own business.
It gets to a point where some friends might not be worth having
I would have thought its more like being an annoying vegan that keeps telling other people what to eat
An annoying vegan who keeps telling other people not to eat babies puckers.
Well meat is murder to some I suppose
Well baby meat almost certainly is pucky.
But its sooooooo tender, it just melts in the mouth
‘A pig is a highly intelligent mammal, and its fatty hairless body resembles that of a human. It cries from pain similar to humans, its’ babies are extremely similar to human babies. Most fire fighters also do not eat pig, this is because when a pig’s flesh is burnt is smells much that same as human flesh does when it burns, I would assume it tastes the same as well.’
Why don’t you take your sick shit and shove it puckwit. Seedy creep.
Hey its part of my culture buddy, take your elitist viewpoint elsewhere
Perversity 101. Yeah your culture has a lot to answer for.
You can’t shame me with your narrow -minded middle class world view
Yes the flesh eaters have been spoilt – I just think your physical personal pleasuring to the suffering of animals is sadistic but hey I get it is essential for you so ALL good. One day a reckoning will come.
Yes. Yes it will.
‘Stanford professor Paul Ehrlich made headlines last month when he told journalists that overpopulation and resource scarcity would eventually drive hungry humans to cannibalism.’
Yep OWTim exactly correct. Wayne won’t get that – seems some people like to pretend nothing is wrong and then usually they cry the biggest tears and sobs when the shit goes down. Fake all the way through.
Specially when your best mate’s a bit of a thug right wayney?
The mateship thing between the two countries is now horseshit.
We rely on Australia for so much both explicitly and implicitly.
They also own a huge chunk of our economy.
We’re lucky we don’t get asked hard questions like Taiwan does.
Which may still happen.
Sounds like you’re setting us up to adopt the Aussie dollar or have them install a military base here. Apparently this globalism thing is still thriving…
I would rather initiate a hard conversation about where we are going as a relationship between the two countries than sit on my hands and moan about how the world isn’t fair.
So yes, let’s talk currency.
Let’s talk about easy dual citizenship.
Let’s talk military bases.
Let’s talk Federation.
Because if we don’t start talking about the kind of things that would persuade the Australian government to stop screwing us over as they will continue to do, it’s going to get worse very fast.
I know where you can see where global trade instability and the rapid breakdown of most multilateral orders is going to leave us.
Or lets talk about 4 degrees of warming and ask how Australia’s domestic food security will hold up under that stress.
And what they might do under those circumstances if NZ still had food security due to a more favourable geographic location.
The last thing you’d want to do is assume that Australians are any form of ‘mates’.
Ad is correct; – and how owns our banks now – that have screwed us to the hilt?
We don’t just rely on Australia… Australia owns NZ. They could crash our economy any time they like.
They could, and if the fabulous trio had their way, they probably would. Not too dissimilar to the motherland cutting us adrift a few decades ago. (now they’re near to grovelling as Brexit looms)
Are we still here?
And only if we continue to subscribe to the neo-liberal economic framework.
NZ has had (and is increasingly having) a kind of masochistic relationship with Australia.
Beat me Beat me! Please! Beat me.
Friends (under their current junta that’s lasted near a decade?) I think not. Though Wayne and other fossils will be going phuff phuff phuff phuff on Q+A and NewShub Nation, and even here on TS. Let’s not upset the Australians.
Remember the apples @Wayne?
Given the history, I’m struggling to understand how many of them still have any credibility (or in the okker mind, any Credlin)
“The mateship thing between the two countries is now horseshit.”
But then my experience(s) of Australia (bearing in mind I once actually held an Australian passport) are that the WASPS have always had a need to find the ‘other’.
It makes them feel better, and rational beings
Those bloody Abbos have always been a problem (notice how they have stolen a paternalistic “closing the gaps” programme)
In the 60s and 70s interstate rivalry was worse than it was between Australia and NZ. In some cases, Kiwis were welcomed because they were somehow better than those from other states. There were actually policed borders between NSW and Victoria that checked the car for fruit and contraband.
And whilst at college, there was no end of hearing about bloody Greckos, Spiks and Ities.
Now they’ve been ‘assimilated into okker culcha’ and learned the Aussie way and get a fair suck of the sav, it became about bloody Ayshuns over-running Queensland and Lebboes in NSW, no matter that many were born there.
It’s not really surprising that all they’ve got left are the Kiwi criminals (code for Murrays really), or those bloody progressives at the ABC in Melbourne. OR maybe even the ‘poorer’ states like Tassie and South Straya who won’t pay their way. And get in behind Norfolk Island!
No denying it’s getting worse – whether its the authoritarian trio of Dutton, Cormann and Morrison, running Fortress Australia, or Credlin News (Skoi Newz Stray-ya) pumping out shit and sports results 24 hours a day like the Okker version of Fox.
I had a lucky escape. I almost moved back in 2010
Dutton has a mouth like a prolapsing sphincter. And he’s a deeply unpleasant human being.
The 4th Reich of the Liberal Party (and others) are full of shit, and more and more egged on by Credlin TV, with guest stars like the finger pointing Rowan Deane
On the one hand they strut around telling everybody that Australia is a ‘diverse Nation built on immigration’, then on the other, like Daleks screaming Assimilate! Assimilate! Assimilate! You must be just like us! Assimilate! Assimilate!
Unfortunately, some of it has rubbed of on the NuZull gNatz
Lamprey by face, lamprey by nature.
That’s the fanciest way of calling someone an arsehole I’ve heard.
Progressive-Leftists 1 Hate Speech Coalition 0
Speaking from his gut and life experience, Te Reo Putake said it;
“There’s No Such Thing as Free Speech”
For those of a more legal bent, Villainesse makes the same point, ‘there is no such thing as free speech in an unequal society’.
Our post British Imperialist majority white, capitalist settler society has specifically designed it that way.
“Free speech is designed to protect privilege”
Villainesse – July 19, 2018
Crypto-Fascists 1 New Zealand 0
There’s No Such Thing as Free Speech
There is a solid suppression of ‘free speech’ in NZ today beginning in 2008 by National..
Not a good day for Mr Goff
Doesn’t seem to have had anything to do with Goff – at least he wasn’t mentioned in the article specifically.
And it doesn’t seem to go far enough but I think that ‘far enough’ needs to be addressed by the law-makers in central government.
IMO, any and all research done by or for the government should be released (put on a website for free viewing by anybody) within 7 days of completion.
Remembering the work of Niraz Saied
‘They killed my love’
Farar Nijjar & Linah Alsaafin – July 19, 2018
“What does Niraz Saied’s death tell us about ourselves?”
Abir Kopty – July 18, 2018
Don’t ya know, folk only give a rats about Palestinians being murdered when it’s Israel doing the murdering.
Die FB, die!
Matt Lauer’s purchase of a high country station has riled many about access. Lauer’s belief is that those wanting to traverse the station just have to phone and check that it is OK. That seems fair but the nearest DOC station are not allowed to give out the phone number of the station and even if you have the number an answer phone at the station does not have a call back. The station is managed by the previous owners whose history has been to obstruct those wanting to traverse.
So is Lauer the problem or is it his manager? Or is the OIO?
All three plus the government. We simply shouldn’t allow offshore owners.
I wish people would get the fact he brought the lease.
Not the actual physical thing
Good questions, ianmac. And a good summary of the latest from last night’s Checkpoint and this morning’s Morning Report.
Here is an article on the RNZ website updated at midday today with links to the various interviews on Morning Report.
I get the feeling that there is more to run on this issue.
Ideologically, I agree with Draco on overseas owners, but real life is seldom that simple. As Chris T says, he bought the lease, not the actual physical property; and it is just not feasible to just cancel all existing overseas ownerships whether of actual properties or leaseholds.
* One thing I really like about the RNZ website is that when they run an article on a subject, the page also lists and provides links to directly related stories/articles in the right hand column – rather than lists/links to unrelated but current issues.
“and it is just not feasible to just cancel all existing overseas ownerships whether of actual properties or leaseholds.”
It is perfectly feasible to say that no future transfers can go to overseas owners. Over time all foreign-owned land would return to NZ citizen ownership.
I see the English are stockpiling foods and drugs for the probable crash-out Brexit.
Is their high commission here accepting donations anywhere? is there a drop off point?
I’ve read about the massive increase in users of food banks due to Tory austerity campaign. I never imagined that their government would now want to access food banks to care for the population post 29 March 2019.
The workings of government are beyond imaginings. Some of them can hardly lie straight in their beds at night.
When one looks at the behaviour of governments over the last 30 years, it is apparent that the present model of democracy needs its tubes cleaned out, and spark plugs changed to enable us to move towards a harsher environment in the very near future, of which we are getting regular dress rehearsals.
How they can still fart about with worrying about simple legislation when their minds should be on major matters, is beyond ordinary working minds. Quick get on with setting reasonable and ethical rules about drugs like marijuana, and illness, and extending life unreasonably, and euthanasia, and building residences to last for at least forty years with minor repairs, and encouraging colourful, cheerful groups of tiny houses in intentional communities with services guaranteed, and perhaps local money systems that can be an ajunct to the national one.
And start the Nadia Lim food plan system so you can stop wandering off into what to have for dinner. Leave more time to think about the big things and then the small ones like people down the road going out of their minds that are deteriorating from drugs and embedded sadness and emotional and physical hunger.
This is so sad.
This should be seen for what it is.
A vile playing of the race card by a desperate Blairite right that loathes Corbyn and will stoop to the lowest possible dirty tricks to attack him, and seeks to wedge the left with the most vile accusations possible.
A demand by Quislings in the British Labour party that Britain’s middle eastern foreign policy be decided in Washington and Tel Aviv.
An attempt by right wing, pro-Israel and anti-Corbyn Labour MPs to straight jacket any future left wing Labour government’s ability to criticise Israel, and yes – a proper left wing government WILL be a threat to policies of Netanyahu and his cronies.
The British people should not allow their foreign policy to be set by the racist and apartheid regime currently ruling in Tel Aviv.
It is so sad that the charge of anti-semitism has been cheapened and reduced to a partisan political position by a UK Jewish lobby in the U.K. that now equates criticism of the Zionist state with anti-semitism.
I just realised the date today.
Happy Birthday to Jacinda Ardern.
What a lot has happened since her last birthday.
lol apparently the aryan agitators are still coming to NZ. I guess the freeze peach crowd pulled out too soon.
What a debacle.
Surprise, surprise – NOT.
Just a great big PR exercise from start to finish.
People just jumped to conclusions yesterday when the court decision etc came out; whereas Pellowes made it clear yesterday that they would probably still be coming even if just as tourists.
Here is the link to my comment yesterday afternoon pointing this out over on TRP’s post – https://thestandard.org.nz/hate-speech-coalition-cans-canadians-crusade/#comment-1506704
I did not believe for one moment that they were not still looking for a venue – or had not already found one. And keeping the venue secret is just a repeat of their tactics in Melbourne which of course just heightened the intrigue and publicity etc.
For anyone who wants to “keep checkiing the website” as suggested by Pellowes, here is the link to the Axiomatic website used for the current tour. Venues already done have been Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide with Sydney and Brisbane to come this Sat and Sun. Southern and Molyneux were due to come to Auckland on Aug 3, but whether that will remain the date does not seem to have been stated yet.
Update – Auckland Aug 3 has just re-popped up on the website. Was not there five minutes ago.
I don’t recall this condition being stated on the website a few weeks ago.
” 1. The precise venues in each city will be advised via SMS or email to ticket holders only 24 hours prior to each event. “
Phil Goff might want to consider sending them an invoice for all the free publicity he sent their way
Oh, they would have found something else to scream victimhood about.
“I guess the freeze peach crowd pulled out too soon”
This is how it’s done.
The notorious Marianne Ny gave Sweden a terrible reputation. Here, by
contrast, is a young Swedish woman who actually has integrity and courage.
Good Morning Newshub Duncan its like anything to much of most things is bad for you.
Drinking to much alcohol is bad for you it will kill you. We need to change the way we use this drug limit the access that the mokopunas have to this drug teach them that its not cool to or intelligent to binge drink teach the that a couple of drinks is ok but 10 is not. When we do this our bad stats associated with this drug will decline .
Ka kite ano
The sandflys have come up with some farcical reason to step up there attempts to intimidate Eco Maori I say bring it on muppets there is a lot of positive thing’s happening to our society because of these red necks bulling behavior . Ana to kai
Some te tangata whenua that have climbed quite high on there ladders of life in Aotearoa some kaumatua .
I see these people are in total denial of the wrong’s that are and have been dished out to tangata whenua by this system . They use words like don’t blame any one but yourself or get off your ass and go to work there plenty of work out there . There are jobs out there but when you work them the job and wages puts one in a worse position than before you started working these low wage jobs .
Because these people think tangata whenua are being treated fairly YEA RIGHT. I call for all the younger tangata whenua to step up and become the new Leaders for tangata whenua .
The evedince is out there on the propaganda some people are waging against tangata whenua MANA .
Ka kite ano P.S some one should conduct a study on the media and compare the positive and negative story’s about tangata whenua
I’m at the Rotorua hospital at the minute and te tangata Wairua are really good every one is smiling and in a good mood. It’s a stark change from about 12 months ago this shows ECO MAORI that our left coalition government te people government is doing a great job you know te tangata are much happier now. I will have more to say on the last great moves our Coalition Government has made in the last couple of days. Ka kite ano
Good evening Newshub All’s well with my whano just a little scare .
Josephs those blue nose you caught were big they are one of the sweetest fish in Tangaroa raw fish Pacific style with coconut cream its the best for that Kia kaha .
Global warming is here and now those British mp looked like they were hot lol.
Ka kite ano P.S I will go fishing with Matt one day
The Crowd Goes Wild James and Wairangi yes we got some good sports on this weekend .
The boxing is going to be awsome go Joe I will be chairing for you I use to eat fish raw straight out of tangaroa Scampi was the sweetest to Eco Maori raw . Well when one has worked for 100 hours straight on the deck you will eat anything Your old man enjoyed that fishing trip the last time I went out my son was doing what your m8 did crook as lol .
I see Horouta Wahine have been cleaning up at the Tai Waka Papatuanuku races Kia kaha wahine Ka kite ano World