Open mike 26/07/2019

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1. Andre 1

   26 July 2019 at 7:21 am

   Oh dear. Details matter …

   https://www.vox.com/2019/7/25/8930035/trump-altered-presidential-seal
   • Andre 1.1

     26 July 2019 at 9:08 am

     Infantroopen … lawmarkers … and in the replies, today's greatest observation: "Trump's ass looks like a pet door for Lindsey Graham"

     https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1154422075345526785?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1154452456425713665&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffpost.com%2Fentry%2Ftrump-mark-esper-infantroopen_n_5d39ed47e4b020cd99505d05
   • Poission 1.2

     26 July 2019 at 12:20 pm

     Oh dear the fix is on.

     https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1154444505090629633

     Here are five disturbing findings from my research, which adheres, I believe, to the highest possible scientific standards inall respects:1.In 2016, biased search results generated by Google’s search algorithml ikely impacted undecided voters in a way that gave at least 2.6 million votes to Hillary Clinton(whom I supported). I know this because I preserved more than 13,000 election-related searches conducted by a diverse group of Americans on Google, Bing, and Yahoo in the weeks leading up to the election, and Google search results –which dominate search in the U.S. and worldwide –were significantly biased in favor of Secretary Clinton in all 10 positions on the first page of search results in both blue states and red states. I know the number of votes that shifted because Ihave conducted dozens of controlled experiments in the U.S. and other countries that measure precisely how opinions and votes shift when search results favor one candidate, cause, or company. I call this shift “SEME” –the Search Engine Manipulation Effect. My first scientific paper on SEME was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences(PNAS) in 2015 (https://is.gd/p0li8V)(Epstein & Robertson, 2015a) and has since been accessed or downloaded from PNAS’s website more than 200,000 times. SEME has also been replicated by a research team at one of the Max Planck Institutes in Germany

     https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Epstein%20Testimony.pdf
     • francesca 1.2.1

       26 July 2019 at 3:50 pm

       Uh oh Poission , that kind of news does not give comfort to righteous Democrat minds

       And for that reason I think you'll find that the Russians directed that research.Google is as pure as the driven snow
2. A 2

   26 July 2019 at 7:22 am

   The story of Bitcoin

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCi3X3AbgT4

   From TDV newsletter:

   The plot goes like this…

   Abandoned at birth by his father Satoshi Nakamoto, Bitcoin searches for his life's purpose. With the help of some friends, Bitcoin rises from total obscurity to become a Batman–esque hero of the people who fights against the corrupt banking system that oppresses everyone.

   In the pilot episode, Bitcoin awakens to a chaotic world following the 2008 financial crisis. With only a few words to his young child, Satoshi disappears, leaving Bitcoin with more questions than answers. Fortunately, a benevolent ice cream truck owner (Jones) takes Bitcoin under his wing in a search to find his father.
   • Andre 2.1

     26 July 2019 at 7:28 am

     Bitcoin is the ultimate example of something whose only value is that a few people delude themselves that it has value. In tangible terms, it's purely a certificate of gratuitously wasted electricity.
     • A 2.1.1

       26 July 2019 at 9:39 am

       Meh. Currency is what you make it.

       Reasons to use bitcoin #93 Everyone should have a Swiss Bank Account in their pocket

       https://www.reasonstousebitcoin.com/shop/t-shirt/reason-93/
       • roblogic 2.1.1.1

         26 July 2019 at 10:08 am

         Cryptocurrency is a vapourware ponzi scheme, it *will* burn you sooner or later

         The Wild West Of Crypto Hacks
     • greywarshark 2.1.2

       26 July 2019 at 2:05 pm

       Our present financial system is the ultimate example of something whose only value is that a few people [in pivotal positions manipulate it and in the confidence in its value by many] assure themselves that it has value.
       • Andre 2.1.2.1

         26 July 2019 at 2:16 pm

         In the end, the value of a state-issued currency is made tangible by that state having powers of compulsion over its citizens. So in that sense, yes, the backing is utterly reliant on the confidence of its citizens. That confidence can be lost, Zimbabwe and Venezuela being notable recent examples. But it takes a fairly cataclysmic societal upheaval to decimate the value of a state-issued currencly. Whereas a ponzi-scheme con game like crypto-currency could collapse from something as ephemeral as the next shiny economics-fashion idea coming along.
         • greywarshark 2.1.2.1.1

           26 July 2019 at 3:01 pm

           Your point is made…but 'the next shiny economics-fashion idea coming along' sounds just the idea of having a floating currency as the remarkable idea brought by the emissary from the Finsec riding on his magic wand that solved the problem of states trying to hold a stable currency against those who doubted its equivalency. So we decide on the unstable currency dependent on the 'next shiny idea' of the Alex's out there.

           Alex cartoon Telegraph Peattie & Taylor
3. Jenny - How to Get there? 3

   26 July 2019 at 7:27 am

   Syria Speaks

   Tonight Auckland

   Think you are an expert on Syria?

   Think that the Assad regime is an anti-imperialist bastion?

   Don't think that the Syian people have any right to defend themselves from a monstrous tyranny?

   Think again?

   Hear Syrians give their side of the story

   The Peace Place

   22 Emily Place

   7pm

   This Hui originally organised for the 15th of June, the anniversary of the start of the revolution against the Assad dynastic regime.

   Despite the online death threats against this event this event.

   Show the fascists that we will not be cowed.
   • reason 3.1

     26 July 2019 at 4:29 pm

     Remember to put a good work in for the christians

     And in their persecution and murder of Christians and Yazidis in Iraq and Syria, Isis – which included Muslims from around the world – may not have been specifically aided by the local population; but while Arabs tried to protect their neighbours, others systematically looted their homes and property after Isis had slaughtered or deported the owners. https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/holocaust-armenia-genocide-shoah-nazi-germany-turkey-ottoman-a9020601.html

     And Don't hold back on fascist fighting …. 32 secs

     If anybody deserves a holocaust …it would have to be those fascists …. 1min 32 secs :0

     Peace be with you …

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULtNYSUqYHw
     • Jenny - How to Get there? 3.1.1

       28 July 2019 at 11:33 am

       Hi Reason, hardly a credible source.

       A regime huckster putting words in the mouths of his opponents.

       Putting words in the mouths of others, hardly amounts to giving a balanced account.

       Allah must never forgive anyone who shows mercy towards the Alawites, screams the opposition activists of Syria”

       Faisal Qasim

       From this beginning Faisal Qasim goes on to demolish the sectarian straw man argument of his own creation.

       Despite Syria being a majority Sunni Muslim country, (and naturally the make up of the majority of the opposition reflect this reality). there have been and are Alawites and Christians who have been in the opposition even in leading positions.

       Fadwa Soliman the famed Actress and political activist from Homs who became the most nationally recognised face of the opposition was from a notable Alawite family.

       Homs was completely destroyed and depopulated by the regime's genocidal aerial bombardment. To escape this aerial genocide Fadwa Soliman along with tens of thousands of other citizens of Homs was forced to flee the rebel city and become a refugee.

       Fadwa Soliman died in exile in France in 2017.

       Reason, to finish, will ask you one simple question, it is a question I have always asked regime apologists like yourself.

       I have lost track of the number of times I have asked it. And not once since I first posed it, have I ever received a single response from you, or any of the other pro-regime apologists who infest this site

       To expose the intellectual dishonesty and cowardice of regime apologists like yourself Reason, I will again ask this question and challenge you to give an answer.

       Who did this?

       And is it not evidence of genocide?

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=mt3gR4BUPmQ
       • reason 3.1.1.1

         29 July 2019 at 3:36 pm

         Jenny … … the video part of my post . was just a loon having a rave …. about killing fascists … he calls them Alawites … you call the Assadists … Same people.

         You ignored in Wayne Mapp like fashion … the serious part of my post

         And in their persecution and murder of Christians and Yazidis in Iraq and Syria,,,,,

         Homs … “Christians to Beirut, Alawites to their graves!”

         Mother Agnes-Mariam, who is of Palestinian and Lebanese descent, is on an international tour and is due to visit Britain. She believes that opposition fighters have driven out 80,000 Christians from the Homs region alone https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-plight-of-syrias-christians-we-left-homs-because-they-were-trying-to-kill-us-8274710.html

         Amnesty International have stated that Raqqa was the worst example of total destruction and indifferent killing of civilians in either Iraq or Syria …. done by your fascist fighters … the good guys.

         I've already told you who started it .,.. who is to blame … so your being dishonest yet again.

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB3B-SSXKII&fbclid=IwAR0w0kpsITcJU8YHbJ1AeKElSa8eFJIjRHlkAY5w6sxvUoh6woN9z-p2CPs
         • Jenny - How to Get there? 3.1.1.1.1

           30 July 2019 at 12:07 am

           the video part of my post . was just a loon having a rave …. about killing fascists … he calls them Alawites … you call the Assadists … Same people.

           Reason

           Indeed he was a loon, just as you say. Faisal Qasim a sort of Arabic shock jock whose show has had 'guests' brawling in front of the cameras. Qasim had been criticised in the past for his habit of hand picking such unrepresentative loons to make his straw man arguments.

           In this case a man who lives in Lebanon unknown in Syria, representative of no group or organisation in Syria or Lebanon, or anywhere else who makes no claim of being connected to any group or organisation and who speaks for nobody but himself. A 'loon' quite happy no doubt with his appearance fee to spout his lunacy.

           I am sure you could find some loon like this in Lebanon if you specifically went and looked for them.

           On another note. I have never used the term Assadist which I consider trite.

           Putting words in other people’s mouths is lazy and dishonest.
           • reason 3.1.1.1.1.1

             30 July 2019 at 11:55 am

             Jenny …. "Putting words in other people’s mouths is lazy and dishonest."

             It is actually you reason, who is calling to kill more.

             In your comment above you are of course alluding to Idlib.

             lazy, dishonest …and forgetful in your case jenny.
       • Jenny - How to Get there? 3.1.1.2

         30 July 2019 at 12:32 am

         I notice Reason that just like every other Assad apologist before you, you haven't answered the question.

         Why is that?

         Do you think it is a trick question?

         I am sure you can argue all day long about false flags and crisis actors and faked videos and the rebels gassing their own people to make the Assad regime look bad.

         But it is hard to make such arguments in the face of evidence of a whole city destroyed.

         As I said your refusal to answer this simple question exposes the intellectual dishonesty and cowardice of regime apologists like yourself.

         So I will ask you again, and defy you to answer

         Who did this?

         And is it not evidence of genocide?

         https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=mt3gR4BUPmQ
4. marty mars 4

   26 July 2019 at 7:57 am

   The truth is we know what we have to do and we can't do it, yet. They are killing us all for money – get that? money – a figment of our imagination.

   These 10 companies produced 54.5 million tonnes of CO2 – more than two thirds of NZ's total emissions. Combined, they produced an estimated 54.5 million tonnes of greenhouse gases, roughly two-thirds of the national total.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/114431409/nzs-biggest-greenhouse-gas-emitters-and-their-struggle-to-pollute-less
   • vto 4.1

     26 July 2019 at 9:20 am

     That is very clearly put marty mars, but of course such a statement can be as easily applied to the person in the old toyota corolla or the new suv who whizzes past those of us on the road who walk everywhere …

     or had the fireplace going last night …

     aren't we all complicit by way of our daily actions?
   • Sacha 4.2

     26 July 2019 at 9:23 am

     Interesting how many of them are Energy sector companies.
     • Andre 4.2.1

       26 July 2019 at 9:44 am

       In the case of the fuel companies, it's because the emissions are attributed to the company, not to the fuel buyer that actually burns it and emits the CO2.
       • bwaghorn 4.2.1.1

         26 July 2019 at 10:09 am

         The same goes for the ag sector. Farmers get blamed instead of the people eating the meat and vegies ,cheese and milk etc
         • Andre 4.2.1.1.1

           26 July 2019 at 10:16 am

           The difference is the ag sector actually does the emitting, much more than the final consumer. Well, if you exclude the bean-eating vegans, that is.
5. A 5

   26 July 2019 at 9:41 am

   🙁 The most common sharks that are killed for squalene are…Basking sharks, Soupfin sharks, Bluntnose sixgill sharks.

   https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2018/07/sharks-news-cosmetics-squalene-health/
   • greywarshark 5.1

     26 July 2019 at 11:46 am

     Old cars must have a lesser carbon footprint than new because the making and materials would probably be amortised over say ten years, and then be about nil, only running and fuel costs then, and recycled parts often – so a lot of good can come from old cars.

     Our lives and the economy have been built around oil-driven cars. What would it have been like if the steam-driven cars had succeeded? There would have been a contest for water, but most of what was used would have come down in rain somewhere wouldn't it?

     The Stanley Steamer may have been the answer, killed off by better funded more aggressive Ford. The motor manufacturers had the bit between the teeth, figuratively, and didn't like anyone introducing different ideas to the public, even shatter-proof safety glass, note Tucker.

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Tucker
     .
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucker_48

     https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a30105/an-ultra-rare-3-million-tucker-48-was-discovered-in-an-ohio-barn/
     Preston Tucker's car company was responsible for 51 cars being built. Of those, we know that 47 "Tucker '48s" have survived and we know where all of them are.

     Another inventive gasoline-driven car maker. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Duryea

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Motor_Carriage_Company
     (Twins Francis E. Stanley (1849–1918) and Freelan O. Stanley (1849–1940) founded the company)

     The Stanley Motor Carriage Company was an American manufacturer of steam-engine vehicles; it operated from 1902 to 1924. The cars made by the company were colloquially called Stanley Steamers, although several different models were produced.

     The Stanleys had earlier developed improved dry plate photographic plates. They sold that invention to a chap called Eastman!
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Edgar_Stanley
6. Peter 6

   26 July 2019 at 9:53 am

   Ah, Boris Becker's bollocks!

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUx3UjX7h6c
   • ianmac 6.1

     26 July 2019 at 10:15 am

     Stark relief. Huh.
     • greywarshark 6.1.1

       26 July 2019 at 2:24 pm

       It would be hard to dislike Jonathan Pie as he always presents my point of view in technicolour.

       Then the selection that came up after his rant showed Stephen Fry – I am not sure whether he is for or against Brexit, but I would be likely to vote for him if there were just the two – Johnson and Fry for choice. And Fry's make chocolate too don't they – a winning name then. He is more fun than Boorish. And I think he said that his family was Hungarian, so you get diversity straight away to match and perhaps top Boris – Boris has Turkish delight as his sweet spot I think.

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7FbQSp5caA
       • ianmac 6.1.1.1

         26 July 2019 at 3:53 pm

         Thanks Grey. What makes it more fun, is that those bits were probably unscripted. What a clever chapStephen is. There was a set where he took the hypocrisy of the church to task. Bowled 'em all for a duck.
         • greywarshark 6.1.1.1.1

           26 July 2019 at 4:32 pm

           Clever, funny and possibly principled too. Though that should not be held against him if sizing him up for a politician! Got to have a larf occasionally.
   • alwyn 6.2

     26 July 2019 at 10:24 am

     What did poor old Boris Becker do to be connected to this?

     His personal life may have been just as turbulent as that of the other Boris but I hardly think he is responsible for Brexit. Let's just remember him as a really great tennis player.
7. Rosemary McDonald 7

   26 July 2019 at 10:15 am

   It is Official.

   The Coalition of Kindness gives not a shit about disability.

   The fact that disabled New Zealanders are neglected and abused (sometimes to death) under the care of Ministry of Health providers matters not.

   The recent announcement regarding the end of discrimination of family carers providing assessed supports was nothing but a PR stunt that failed to convince commenters here on the day, and it is now confirmed by our state broadcaster that the numbers simply don't add up.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/395170/new-families-joining-funded-family-care-scheme-may-miss-out-on-fair-pay

   And to confirm exactly where disability sits on the list of priorities…

   https://www.hpa.org.nz/news/new-delegations-for-the-associate-ministers-of-health-announced

   New delegations for the associate Ministers of Health have been announced and responsibility for the Health Promotion Agency/Te Hiringa Hauora (HPA) has shifted from Hon Jenny Salesa to Hon Peeni Henare.

   The full list of responsibilities is:

   Associate Minister of Health: Hon Peeni Henare

   Responsibility for policy and service delivery realting to:

   • Māori health equity
   • the Health Promotion Agency
   • blood and organ donation (including the New Zealand Blood Service)
   • diabetes
   • other initiatives as agreed from time to time.

   Associate Minister of Health: Hon Jenny Salesa

   Reponsibility for policy and service delivery relating to:

   • Pacific health equity
   • problem gambling
   • healthy school environments
   • health of older people
   • tobacco
   • ethics committees
   • special patients
   • the Health Quality and Safety Commission
   • HealthCERT and quality assurances (including Radiation Safety)
   • Disability Support Services
   • other initiatives as agreed from time to time.

   Associate Minister of Health: Hon Julie Anne Genter

   Responsibility for policy and service delivery relating to the following areas (with the exeption of remuneration issues, which are retained by the Minister of Health):

   • climate change and health
   • population health (built environments)
   • women's health (including maternity services, breast and cervical cancer screening, and the health aspects of abortion)
   • sexual health
   • family and sexual violence
   • public health (including immunisation, but excluding drinking water)
   • other initiatives as agreed from time to time.

   I despair. I really do.

   I would sincerely love to hear from the loyal Coalition Flagwavers on this issue…
   • stunned mullet 7.1

     26 July 2019 at 10:48 am

     Stay strong Rosemary, don't let the bastards get you down.
   • Kay 7.2

     26 July 2019 at 1:07 pm

     I would sincerely love to hear from the loyal Coalition Flagwavers on this issue…

     So would I but let's not hold our breath waiting. Disabled persons in NZ are now officially at the bottom of the food chain. I would go as far as to say below hardened violent criminals for the simple reason that they don't get ignored by politicians and the media, especially at election time. We just don't exist.
     • Rosemary McDonald 7.2.1

       26 July 2019 at 1:37 pm

       Let's see how many of them vote for the EOLC Bill. I can actually envisage some of them spinning it that allowing the sick and disabled the choice is upholding human rights.

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2kV83nPWnM
       • One Two 7.2.1.1

         26 July 2019 at 3:04 pm

         It's the only way such voting could be spun…

         All so very progressive.

         Gotta wonder what the issues are which will mobilise the mainstream…
   • One Two 7.3

     26 July 2019 at 2:58 pm

     Too hard basket…don't care….something more sinister…combination…

     The eugenics folks didn't hide.
     • Rosemary McDonald 7.3.1

       26 July 2019 at 3:40 pm

       I suspect a number of psycho/sociopaths on the list of ministerial advisors.
       • Kay 7.3.1.1

         26 July 2019 at 3:57 pm

         Isn't that a job requirement?
         • Rosemary McDonald 7.3.1.1.1

           26 July 2019 at 4:31 pm

           
       • One Two 7.3.1.2

         26 July 2019 at 5:02 pm

         Treatment of vulnerable human beings around the place , home and abroad should not be accepted.

         As you say, the EOL vote will expose them…

         To what end it would matter remains to be seen…

         This govt were always going to let many people down…predictably.

         So long as the darkness is in control…little of nothing meaningful is going to change…
   • McFlock 7.4

     26 July 2019 at 3:10 pm

     Disability seems to be listed under Jenny Salesa's list of responsibilities.

     As for not adding up, the $22.8M.p.a. seems to be slightly under the halfway point of Easton's projection of costs including the new families ($19.4-27.8M.p.a.). Which is reasonable for a budget allocation.

     Needs assessments do need an overhaul, though. Vote Green to get it done.
     • Rosemary McDonald 7.4.1

       26 July 2019 at 3:38 pm

       Disability is at the bottom of the list of Jenny Salesa's responsibilities.

       The new allocation of funding is only just enough to raise the hourly rate of those already being paid under the discriminatory Funded Family Care.

       Those of us who could conceivably paid for the assessed supports we are providing will have to settle for a mere fraction of what has been allocated.

       Had I the time McFlock I'd point you in the direction of numerous reports generated with government funding that describe only to clearly the legion of failings of the NASC assessment process. As if it is accurate to describe it as a "process" as that implies some sort of plan, or consistency, or structure.

       Call Hanlon, because I still can't decide.

       (I did vote Green)
       • McFlock 7.4.1.1

         26 July 2019 at 4:12 pm

         Disability is at the bottom of the list of Jenny Salesa's responsibilities.

         The list of portfolios is not necessarily hierarchical. That is your assumption.

         The new allocation of funding is only just enough to raise the hourly rate of those already being paid under the discriminatory Funded Family Care.

         [edit] argh shit yeah fair call the allocation is enough to cover existing recipients.

         Although I still think the assumption that any additional recipients from the new rule won’t be covered is a rough call.
         • Rosemary McDonald 7.4.1.1.1

           26 July 2019 at 4:38 pm

           Brian Easton is not overly optimistic, and I'll take his word over that of some overpaid spindoctor.

           For a few brief moments there McFlock those Miserly of Health bureaucrats and their tamed Ministers had most of the people fooled with their bullshit.
           • McFlock 7.4.1.1.1.1

             26 July 2019 at 4:41 pm

             Well, until people are actually turned down for funding it's all just speculation. And if it happens that there is a shortfall, you and the Greens will lobby to get more funding allocated and backpaid, no?
             • Rosemary McDonald …

               26 July 2019 at 6:36 pm

               Well, until people are actually turned down for funding it's all just speculation.

               Well, McFlock…why do you think that the local building inspector has to sign off on the foundations of a building before the walls and roof can go up?

               In fact, if they did allow the build to proceed with dodgy foundations they'd be liable, surely?

               (Or maybe not, since accountability is a dirty word these days.)

               My initial optimism that Sunday (Sunday?! to make a major announcement on a bleeding Sunday!…who does that???) was subdued by the knowledge that repeated Ministers from successive governments have been totally and utterly impotent in the face of the often malevolence shown by the Ministry of Health towards disabled people who choose (or have no other option) to have a family member providing their assessed supports. And the MOH bureaucrats have a particular level of contempt towards family carers.

               Putting this right could be ridiculously simple once the longstanding issue of inadequate and inconsistent NASC assessments has been sorted.

               But this government is too chickenshit to demand that the Ministry of Health DSS makes this work an absolute priority.

               Or/and this government truly do believe that disability support deserves it's place and the bottom of the Jenny Salesa's list of responsibilities.
               • McFlock …

                 26 July 2019 at 6:49 pm

                 Building inspectors don't assume that the place will fall down before they receive the plans.

                 But they're the wrong functionary in the building analogy, anyway. People build a new home aim for a value of say $500,000. But that's just an estimate. They'll try to bring it in on budget, but if it comes out to be more expensive, there's usually a certain leeway in their cost estimate to absorb a bit more expense. It might be $497k, but they might push to $580k or more.

                 What they don't do is get all dismayed about the project because the plans costed out the dwelling but the driveway isn't included. They will ask about the cost of that detail, but it's not a portent of project doom.
                 • Rosemary McDonald …

                   26 July 2019 at 7:30 pm

                   McFlock. I can see this is not your particular area of knowledge or expertise so I'll try and explain.

                   The Ministry of Health Disability Support Services has this database (called SOCRATES) they set up back in…2007 or so.. which in 2013 was finally persuaded to regurgitate some actual, well,data.

                   Up until then, and Brian Easton (blessings upon him and his kin) made mention of this in his 2008 brief of evidence to the Human Rights Review Tribunal for Atkinson, actual numbers of people enrolled with each area NASC were sketchy to say the least.

                   Those enrolled who had high and very high support needs (as assessed by the NASC) they could only make the wildest of guesses.

                   The numbers with high and very high support needs who were costing the Ministry NOTHING to support because an unpaid family carer was doing those tasks unpaid, they had very little idea…but…strangely enough by the time Crown Law had done their work, their economist's guestimate ($17-593 million) the upper figure of (and why don't we round that up) $600 million is the one that stuck. Big, scary costings based on guesses of what the actual numbers were.

                   Easton was much closer, and until I get a reply back from MOH DSS as to where the number "640" originated (if you haven't been keeping up that is the number of extra family carers Ardern has promised to pay) I won't be able to be more accurate in my estimates.

                   But looking at the data from Socrates, it could very well be that of the MOH DSS clients wanting or needing family to provide some or all of their assessed supports 640 extra might not be far off the mark.

                   It would be much easier if Socrates actually kept count of not only the Support Needs Allocation for the MOH DSS clients but also the actual funding used by each client. Because, believe it or not, it doesn't. Or so they claim.

                   So, McFlock…what I'm trying to get through to you ( and anyone else even remotely concerned that I am damning the Ministry and its tamed Ministers presumptively) that this is well on the way to being yet another Ministry of Health Disability Support Services cock up. And while they just might fool some with their brilliant impression of a virgin on his wedding night floundering around in the dark, they are not fooling me.

                   They have the data and they have the numbers and they will have a very good idea of how much it is going to cost to bring about justice.

                   So either the ministry advisors are misleading the government and setting them up to look like numpties with their Sunday afternoon announcements, or, the Ministers, including Ardern, are well aware it simply wasn't going to float but thought we were all (including Easton) too thick to notice.

                   And seriously McFlock…you'd wait until the keys were handed over to draw attention to the fault in the slab?
                   • McFlock …

                     26 July 2019 at 8:24 pm

                     Look, I get the "fifteen times bitten, I know what to expect" routine.

                     But if all those 640 families get one full time support allocation at the top pay rate, the system will run out of funding in months. If it's part time funding at lower scales on average, the current funding might actually be adequate. If funding isn't adequate, it'll likely run out just before the election – which would almost guarantee a quick boost.

                     This is why I prefer "pretense of kindness" governments. They at least have to back it up if they get too specific.

                     I'd wait until the slab was poured before assuming there's a fault.
8. greywarshark 8

   26 July 2019 at 1:13 pm

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12253024
   Only 75 Auckland homes sold to overseas buyers in past 3 months; Chinese activity collapses

   Home transfers to overseas people in Central Auckland peaked at 321 transfers (22 per cent) in the June 2018 quarter, shortly before the Overseas Investment Amendment Act 2018 was passed, restricting the sale of residential land.

   Of these, 153 homes were transferred to overseas people with Chinese tax residency in the June 2018 quarter – falling to 48 in the June 2019 quarter.

   Across New Zealand, there were 183 home transfers to people who didn't hold NZ citizenship or a resident visa in the June 2019 quarter versus 1116 in the same quarter last year. Total home transfers numbered 37,695 and of those 0.5 per cent went to overseas buyers. A year earlier, total home transfers numbered 39,627 and 2.8 per cent went to overseas buyers.

   A ban on foreign buyers took effect from October 22 last year and prevents most people who don't hold NZ citizenship or a resident visa from buying residential property in New Zealand.

   Under the revamped act, there are exemptions for those who buy new apartments in certain developments, who add to New Zealand's housing supply, and for Australian and Singaporean citizens.
9. greywarshark 9

   26 July 2019 at 1:30 pm

   A bunch of gripes about royalty – Prince Charles doesn't sit up and beg like one of his Mother's corgis might. It hasn't always been good to host royalty, as noted from past centuries. Prince Charles is not PC about his duties to visit, smile at the peeps and now sends trucks carrying the entire bedroom suite including orthopaedic bed for himself and Camilla. If he has to put himself about the nation, he is an old man, and he tries to do it to his standard of comfort not that of the hosts, and probably has learned that from past experience.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12014916 Prince Charles to visit New Zealand: Here's his remarkable travel demands revealed.

   I wonder what The Don demands?
   • Andre 9.1

     26 July 2019 at 1:37 pm

     I wonder what The Don demands?

     Waterworks displays. Allegedly.
     • greywarshark 9.1.1

       26 July 2019 at 1:40 pm

       The mind boggles…
       • Andre 9.1.1.1

         26 July 2019 at 1:56 pm

         And spanking. Using a rolled-up magazine with his face on the cover. Allegedly.
10. greywarshark 10

    26 July 2019 at 1:55 pm

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1907/S00146/uncertainty-for-codemark-future-after-certifier-departures.htm

    Phil Pennington, Reporter

    The country's leading building product assurance scheme is in disarray after another major company pulled out of it.

    The CodeMark review questions competency and technical expertise of companies that issue certificates.

    The government's CodeMark scheme provides product approvals that cannot be challenged by councils during building consenting, but the scheme has now lost three of its seven certifiers, and these three have issued almost 70 percent of all certificates.

    The latest to go is also the biggest, CertMark of Queensland, which issued 63 certificates, or a third of the total 183 CodeMarks.

    It's a blow that the Building Industry Federation, which represents thousands of products suppliers, believes might prove fatal.

    (This reflects that under neolib government is unable to keep control of its projects, its services, how they are run, whether they get value for money, etc.)

    I heard a report on the Provincial Growth Fund this morning. One of its objects was to get work for NZs unemployed (get the nevvies off the couch) yet by the time it gets contracted out in frequent iterations, the gummint don't know what's going on.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/395273/locals-getting-jobs-through-pgf-not-tracked-by-officials

    Sectors like forestry, which have been allocated funding through the PGF, have already indicated they want to hire more migrant workers to meet their obligations.

    RNZ also requested under the OIA the number of migrant workers being employed in these jobs through the fund, but the Provincial Development Unit (PDU) does not keep these figures.

    PDU head Robert Pigou said they did not monitor who were actually getting the jobs once the money got to those projects.

    "We don't keep track and the contracts don't require applicants to provide us with the details of where they're getting their workforce from.

    "In many cases the applicants might be a local organisations like the district council and they would then go and contract with a third party."

    Bloody neolib is not working well for citizens. However I did hear Michael Bassett waffling on this morning as head of Auckland Chamber of Commerce. M. Bassett is one of the Hounds that ushered in the neolib system and sold the stupid Unionists down the river as redundant munters of our small economy. Adopting the fancy new USA economic system was just what the wealthy ordered, giving them the chance for a plutocratic lifestyle in a peasant farmer country, that would always be struggling but why should they be held down by our size and isolation?
    • Sacha 10.1

      26 July 2019 at 7:49 pm

      Michael *Barnett*, different guy than the evil one who screwed local govt law.
      • greywarshark 10.1.1

        26 July 2019 at 9:08 pm

        Oh. The name – and I jumped 'that high'. I'll settle down now.
11. Rosemary McDonald 11

    26 July 2019 at 2:15 pm

    Another happy clappy Coalition Grand Announcement that withers more than a little under close scrutiny from those at the coalface.

    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-plan-and-funding-strengthen-learning-support

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12252962

    Principals fear Government learning support plan lacks long-term funding…

    Auckland Primary Principals' Association president Heath McNeil said while the intent of the action plan was important, many of its goals were "we wills" subject to getting more funding down the line.

    We've got boards of trustees now that are forced into topping up ministry funding by tens of thousands, in some cases hundreds of thousands, every year out of their operational budgets … We've just had a significant number of our students with needs have teacher aide funding cuts, pretty drastic ones, in the last three months."

    McNeil points to other aims of the action plan, including reducing waiting times for early intervention.

    "But the timeframe for that is six-and-a-half years with no real targets," he said.

    Read the Action Plan here…https://conversation.education.govt.nz/assets/DLSAP/Learning-Support-Action-Plan.PDF

    God forbid we give these New Zealanders any senses of security.

    SSDD
12. greywarshark 12

    26 July 2019 at 3:13 pm

    I have a cunning plan. Pig disease in China – African Swine Flu (is that racist?) – is decimating their herds, flocks, whatever. Apparently it has been spread by feeding them meat scraps.

    We used to feed pigs from the whey of our milk. Why don't we start doing that again and have pig meat that is 100% pure of ASF? At the same time we reduce the bloody factory dairy farms carrying stock numbers by a certain amount each year for the next three years. Then we will have a dynamic duo of healthy cows and pigs, and less disease from stacked stock with no room to move and live their normal lives.

    Our frenzied dash after every dollar has led us to have cramped quarters in our own sour pens. A healthy appreciation of what life is about for animals and ourselves, the superior species, may be the saving of us for healthy real food. I can see the dreamy ads quite now, and if they are based on truth for once, we will be winners.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/395298/untreatable-pig-disease-puts-pressure-on-pork-industry
13. greywarshark 13

    26 July 2019 at 4:19 pm

    How are our Kiwis getting on in Oz or perhaps Oz's concentration camps?

    26/7/2019 The victims of Australia's deportation policy – they're Kiwis https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=12252700

    A pattern of repeated representations from senior NZ politicians to their Australian counterparts about this issue is emerging.

    Deportations a growing source of tension
    The Australian and New Zealand governments have been at odds over this issue since the legislation changes were introduced in 2014…
    But this harsh deportation policy isn't the only issue creating strain in the relationship. New Zealand's offer to resettle refugees imprisoned in Australian offshore detention centres has been refused a number of times, most recently last week.

    Morrison's apparent lack of willingness to take Ardern's concerns about deporting New Zealand offenders more seriously confirms a noticeable hardening in Australia's approach…

    Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton: "where people are sexually offending against children, for example, we've had a big push to try to deport those paedophiles."
    Fair enough, most Australians may think.

    But Dutton's remarks are highly misleading. The overwhelming majority of the people being deported are not paedophiles.
    In fact, many people being deported from Australia under the "character test" have extensive family ties in Australia and have spent very little time in New Zealand, having arrived in Australia as children.

    Losing contact with family
    Deportees we've interviewed for as-yet unpublished research* had experienced significant trauma because of this process, and a common theme in our research is grief from the loss of contact with children and other loved ones.
    Stories of families being torn apart and children being raised by only one parent were particularly distressing for them to recount.

    *Professor Patrick Keyzer heads La Trobe University's law school. Dave Martin is a PhD candidate, La Trobe University

    This is what we thought in 2016.

    2/8/2016 https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/82670283/kiwis-biggest-group-being-held-in-australian-detention-centres–new-report
    Locking Kiwis up in Australian detention centres and sending them back across the ditch could be part of a policy to "purify" the country, says Labour MP Kelvin Davis.

    (Sounds nasty N..i behaviour from the Australian government. Not all Australians adopt this vicious mentality to NZs thank goodness.)

    There were hopes for a change of government, and a show of principled behaviour, fairness and having a heart but the Australians have one approach for their citizens and apparently a prejudice against NZs which is totally unjustified, considering how we have been disadvantaged as a country from their government actions.
    .

    12/5/2019 https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/112551906/13-15-focus-oz-election-what-would-a-labor-government-mean-for-kiwis- Kiwis living in Australia hopeful for change of government so they get a better deal

    27/2/2019 https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/383475/special-treatment-considered-for-kiwis-in-australian-immigration-appeals

    17/1/2019 https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/01/more-than-100-kiwis-in-hunger-strike-at-australian-detention-centres.html

    3/1/2019 https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/01/kiwis-in-australian-detention-centres-face-being-moved-from-families-lawyer.html

    15/10/2018 https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/15-10-2018/tasman-deathtrap-the-brutal-human-toll-of-australias-deportation-policy/ (This feature was made possible thanks to reader contributions via the Spinoff Longform Fund. Click here to support our investigative journalism.)

    As the number of deportees has mounted, so too has the death toll. In the past three years, at least four New Zealand citizens have died in Australian custody or immediately following deportation, and researchers believe there are almost certainly more. The New Zealand government has no estimate of the total number of deaths, and Minister of Justice Andrew Little says his office is powerless to force a change in Australian law. “We don’t have any control over what the Australians do. We don’t have a great deal of leverage.”

    Advocates in both countries say Australia’s actions are in direct contravention of United Nations conventions against torture, and in several cases even children have been locked in isolation or detained with adults, forcing tense political standoffs.

    More than 15,000 New Zealand citizens are expected to be deported in the next ten years; a flood of exiles, many with no connection to this country, never allowed to go home.

    3/9/2018 https://www.magic.co.nz/home/archivedtalk/on-demand/the-am-show/2018/09/the–easy–solution-to-kiwis-in-detention-centres—go-home—-j.html ('Go home' – Jason Morrison)

    6/4/2018 https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/australian-government-finally-reveals-number-kiwis-locked-up-christmas-island-detention-centre

    25/9/2015 Key: Nearly 200 Kiwis in Australian detention centres https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11518766
14. greywarshark 14

    26 July 2019 at 4:40 pm

    National cut back on training for young mothers and other young people, so the vocational training institutions have to cut back. Then we can blame them when there are no trained people for jobs and we just have to – sob, sob – get immigrant labour in. A race to the bottom for NZ Inc. Will the last person out please turn off the light. Oh don't worry the light fitting has gone phut already.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/395296/weltec-and-whitireia-to-cut-up-to-70-teaching-jobs
15. Obtrectator 15

    26 July 2019 at 5:07 pm

    I'm breaking my recent resolution not to return to The Standard because this particular subject is too important to leave unremarked. I can't post this item where it really belongs (The Guardian) because they're so snowed under lately with BTL comments, they have to close them off within about 5 minutes of the OP's piece going up.

    Anyway, refer to the following:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/25/power-brexit-boris-johnson-radical-conservative-party

    I'm starting to see some ominous parallels with the 1917 Russian revolution. We have here a group that barely commands a majority in its own party (think: Bolsheviks v Mensheviks), but which knows exactly what it wants, concentrates relentlessly on its objectives, and is in the process of seizing a degree of power unprecedented in modern Britain. Like Lenin, they have realised that a small, active, tightly focused organisation is going to be more effective than a larger, diffuse one whose members don't have common goals.

    The timing from their point of view couldn't be better – Parliament in recess for the next six weeks, so nothing to hold this Executive to account till early September. I predict we will see in that period a huge spate of activity by Cabinet and the ministries and departments of state. It will all be within the bounds – just – of existing legislation, but hitherto accepted agreements about what is "done" and "not done" will be ripped to shreds, just as we've been seeing in the USA.

    There'll be no need to formally control the press because Rupert "Moloch" will do it for them and pump out endless propaganda about the necessity for it all. And then, shortly after Parliament resumes, they'll engineer some single-issue "crisis" and call a general election in search of a formal mandate to resolve it – and, by-the-by, cement their grip on what remains of the country.

    Deluded fantasy on my part? Oh I hope so, I do hope so.
    • greywarshark 15.1

      26 July 2019 at 6:20 pm

      Yes Obi Knobi. Boris isn't as silly as he looks I think. As you say it's a worry.

      And why don't you want to comment here? That would be interesting to know – or do you feel there isn't freedom of speech and thought allowed here to talk about it? I think it is important to say. What have you got to lose? I am sorry in advance, if I have offended you.
      • Obtrectator 15.1.1

        29 July 2019 at 10:22 pm

        I'm not offended, Grey. I just got sick and tired of seeing about 90% of BTL comments devoted to petty point-scoring and denigration of anyone who didn't happen to share the particular point of view of the poster. I'd better things to do with my time than wading through that sort of drivel.
16. greywarshark 16

    26 July 2019 at 6:16 pm

    This would be such a good idea. Can't someone adopt this poor little overlooked idea and give it a good secure home properly funded.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/394741/more-residential-homes-could-stop-oranga-tamariki-uplifts

    Vulnerable mothers desperately need access to more residential homes so they can keep their babies instead of watching them being taken into state care, an Insight investigation has found.

    Last year, 281 babies were taken from their mothers within three months of birth, up from 247 in 2016…

    But there are only five residential homes nationwide that offer a safe environment for women and their babies and support mothers to be good parents.

    These homes can only offer 24 places for vulnerable mothers and their children at any one time.

    Does anyone think this is the right way to support new families, and treat parents and children who should be encouraged to bond and build the security and continuity that keeps children happy and trusting in parents?

    Moving into a residential home was not an option for Mel*, who ended up in a Women's Refuge safe house at the start of this year, after another hiding from her ex-partner.

    (Mel protests against Oranga Tamariki uplifts after her children were taken into state care. Photo: RNZ / Leigh Marama McLachlan)

    She spent the week there before Oranga Tamariki took her one-year-old and three-month-old daughters over safety issues.

    "I was compliant with Oranga Tamariki through that whole week, going into meetings," Mel said.

    "That Friday they told me to come into the office at 5pm, when they had closed. They threw a bit of paper at me saying, 'You've got a minute to say goodbye to your kids'.
17. McFlock 17

    26 July 2019 at 6:58 pm

    Ministry of education doesn't want to make the Land wars a compulsory part of the NZ curriculum.

    This seems… odd. It seems to be more a bureaucratic bias against prescriptive curruculae rather than intentional suppression (although suppression will be the outcome).

    I always figured that there were basics that needed to be taught, and that was dictated by the ministry so local nutbars couldn't teach utter bullshit. Apparently I luckily just went ot a progressive school that taught physics, evolution, and some aspects of colonisation (rather than just the bible, intelligent design, and a flat earth with no history outside of europe).
    • Sacha 17.1

      26 July 2019 at 7:53 pm

      "Mar 30 2016"
      • McFlock 17.1.1

        26 July 2019 at 8:14 pm

        Fuck. That'll teach me to take news off FB lol.
        • Sacha 17.1.1.1

          26 July 2019 at 8:30 pm

          Seems to be a lot of that going around this year. Been caught out myself.
          • McFlock 17.1.1.1.1

            26 July 2019 at 8:46 pm

            All credit to Stuff, they seem to periodically report someone raising the issue.

            Here's Hipkins repeating the "no" last year.

            It does seem weird to me that there isn't at least some minimum requirement of coveragewithin the curriculum – does the science curriculum require teachers to teach the basic equations like "F=ma", or is that all just traditionally done out of the kindness of teachers' hearts?

            Shit, I'll be sounding like a baby boomer soon…
18. Eco Maori 18

    27 July 2019 at 6:27 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    That idiot who drove a roller and smashed other people cars with it needs his head read something wrong up there .

    This Government is talking to the whenua protesters Ma te wa.

    Simon ain't plastic like shonky is .

    Can't all the customers of Wallis group just separate the pork out of there meat waste and find a new market for there waste pork no drama there I say.

    There is more to trees and plant life than people know or believe The Kauri stump being kept alive by other trees giving it vital nutrients very interesting.

    Ka kite ano
19. Eco Maori 19

    27 July 2019 at 6:46 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    This Government is trying to figure out a solution to the whenua protesters problems the last lot would have tried to shut it down to many tangata whenua there now to . It is a difacult thing to get to the bottom of who is correct in the whenua issue . My tipuna had a Maori Land court case that lasted 40 years and still it's not sorted the correct owners only got 5 shears out of 500 the shears went to the crowns stool pigeon Eco Maori is going to be re starting that case Ma Te Wa.

    Ka kite ano
20. Eco maori 20

    28 July 2019 at 7:18 am

    https://youtu.be/qQfetkoGrpU
21. Eco maori 21

    28 July 2019 at 11:21 am

    Some Eco Maori music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/w5tWYmIOWGk
22. Eco maori 22

    28 July 2019 at 6:30 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    national scrapped the cancer agency and now they are trying to capitalize on their own MESS Paddy.

    Eco Maori thinks all the help that our Pacific cousins can get from Aotearoa and China is needed to help them cope with climate change.Its cool that our government is investing in saving that rear bird .

    Donna mahi is good for the wairua its sad that the system has a age discrimination I think its should change to encourage the elderly get mahi.

    Alex it was freezing in bayview Hawksbay yesterday morning and today but where Eco Maori resides Te Ra was shining bright and warm also Te Ra had my solar powered system running strong.

    Ka kite ano
23. Eco maori 23

    28 July 2019 at 6:46 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Paina you lost your voice I did a few months ago it took about 2 months to come back it was sad times for Eco Maori.

    Rania Smith te tangata knows the TRUTH about the historical significance of Ihumatoo.

    I agree that tangata whenua need to have a bigger hand in the stakes of tamariki in the states care. I have made a few statements that to care for someone correctly one has to have aroha for that person so Maori need to be included in the care of these poorest tamariki.

    I tau toko the Hawaiian who are protesting that 30 meter high telescope on their sacred mountain they have every right to sue That is what will stop that telescope being built but like tangata whenua O Aotearoa they will have limited resources.

    Ka kite ano
24. Eco maori 24

    28 July 2019 at 7:01 pm

    Piripi that group of Native American and Canadian tribes paddling together looks like Tangata Whenua O Aotearoa waka paddlers awesome.
25. Eco maori 25

    29 July 2019 at 8:25 am

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    You two national supporters love any story that is negative about our Labour lead Coalition Governments Aotearoa economy is fine when compared to other countries and whats happening around Papatuanuku

    Sorry about you been robbed point your finger at your national m8 they made the poor people poorer hence more robberies.

    Chris the disabled people needs of access ramps needs to be catered for by these organizations. We have a hard time getting transportation for one of our love ones whom is disabled.

    I can see this canser drug issue being privately pushed buy the Big drug companies. Talking about doubling Pharmacs budget the drug companies will be rubbing their hands together thinking about their PROFITS they are going to get from this campaign. Its all about Te mone .

    I disagree a business man like shonky only set the country up for the wealthy people hence we have a major housing crisis thanks to shonky a run down health system and education system the roads were ignored he was cutting all the state organizations budgets hence the big mess our Coalition Government has to clean up.

    Ka kite ano
26. Eco maori 26

    29 July 2019 at 2:19 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/eJlN9jdQFSc
27. Eco maori 27

    29 July 2019 at 6:30 pm

    Kia ora Newshub.

    Measles has been quite prominent in Aotearoa as of late the prisoner's who have measles its been a problem Papatuanuku wide.

    Condolences to the people who lost their loveones in the Korean nightclub bar balcony accident.

    All the best in your new journey of retiring from international Polo you made Aotearoa shine bright with your starlight Sir Mark Tod Im sure you will have heaps of other things to keep you busy.

    I would rather live with kiore that be a kiore .

    Mike I know what that is like my machinery being tampered with my machinery has strange things happen like my Eco Maori Truck having lose nuts on the ball joints tyers going down for no logical reason I know all those ball joints nuts were tight because I changed the ball joints my self guessing who the tamper is.

    Ka kite ano
28. Eco maori 28

    29 July 2019 at 6:50 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Condolences to the whanau who lost love ones in the Kiangroa Bay of plenty car and truck crash.

    Its good to see that time have changed now Tangata Whenua O Aotearoa is commanding more respect and we are receiving it .

    At Winston my whanau were Mana whenua and still we didn't get our correct shears in our whenua.

    Thats a awesome knitted flag that te Wahine made I Eco Maori is a suporter for equality for Wahine.

    Some people need to learn not to bite the hands that care for them the most or would Tangata Whenua O Aotearoa prefer to have a government like national making common people lives very hard to paddle there waka te waka is actually going backwards with a national government be careful Whanau we might get burned by your actions.

    Ka kite ano

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