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Open mike 26/02/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:54 am, February 26th, 2015 - 268 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

268 comments on “Open mike 26/02/2015 ”

  1. idlegus 1

    oh my goodness, as i clutch my pearls, cunliffe has been caught using a cell phone in his car, front page news, end of the world, obviously the police to media hotline is redhot!

    • did you miss the ‘brighton’ story..?

    • mickysavage 1.2

      Yep why investigate possible corruption when they can investigate a talking on the cellphone minor infringement. This story is sourced from Slater as is the picture of the dating site. You would have to wonder at how he “stumbled” on it and I wonder who put it up.

      Meanwhile there was a significant development in the Donghua Liu story and questions of when Woodhouse met him to discuss immigration policy and the relationship with the timing of his donation to the National Party.

      But of course talking on a cellphone is more serious …

      • idlegus 1.2.1

        reckon, i don’t believe the chinese dating site for a second, thats gotta be a set up that any idiot can see through, …well most idiots i guess.

    • Northsider 1.3

      The Nats are smarting after the Donghua Liu story hit John Key.

      Key is rattled: it showed in his bad tempered performance in Parliament yesterday.

    • Clemgeopin 1.4

      He should have known better than to do that.

      However, is there more than meets the eye in this story? The stuff article had me wondering about a few aspects in the story.


      * It says a motorist made the complaint and the complaint said Cunliffe was driving ‘erratically’ which Cunliffe has denied.

      Because of the nature of the complaint, I am curious to know WHO the complainant was. Was it a set up ? Was this complainant deliberately following Cunliffe? Was he or one of the accomplices themselves instigate the whole episode? How come the media came to know about this incident promptly? Did the police leak the information or was it the minister of police? Was this to distract the news away from the various messes that the government is in? Is this all part of dirty politics? Something is fishy here.

      * The report also strangely said this:

      “he admitted he had “made a cellphone call or two” in hands-free mode and had been given an infringement notice. He was fined $80 by a police officer, NZME reported”

      If it was in ‘hands-free mode’ as the report says, was that illegal?

      • b waghorn 1.4.1

        Yep it reeks of a set up to me how they just happened to find a witness to comment on his driving.

      • Northsider 1.4.2

        It definitely is black-ops work.
        Cunliffe certainly didn’t call the media!
        Had the person following being an ordinary Joe and called Police, because of concerns about his driving, then the matter should be a private matter between Cunliffe and the Police.
        If the person is a Nat lackie who followed Cunliife from Parliament in his hire car (he is an Auckland MP) and called the Police then that person would be the source for the Media. Why then did the Police confirm? Is that their normal procedure? No.
        This news story required cooperation from both the snitch/lackie and the police.
        Dirty Politics continues.

        • Redbaiter

          Its the left who always encourage narking and denouncements. You reap what you sow.

          • McFlock

            cite pls. CF:the greasy cetacean

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              Slater is a leftie for the purposes of Bedwetter’s feeble stories.

            • Redbaiter

              East German Stasi had 189000 informers study says.

              I never nark or inform on anyone for that very reason.

              • Colonial Rawshark

                Fuck the Stasi, the American driven FVEY apparatus turned on each of us is four or five orders of magnitude more powerful than what the Stasi could ever manage.

                I never nark or inform on anyone for that very reason.

                You clearly don’t Facebook, email, call or txt your friends and family then.

              • Draco T Bastard

                I never nark or inform on anyone for that very reason.

                So, what you’re saying is that if you see a crime or an injustice happening you’re not going to do anything about it? That would probably explain your support of Key and his lies.

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  This kind of phenomena will increase as trust in the activities and motivations of the authorities decrease.

                  BTW In know that it’s obvious to you, but the authorities aren’t really interested in correcting “injustice.”

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    Don’t need authority to point out an injustice and to try and remove it from society if it’s systemic.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      You already see it in many areas of the world – including western ones. People seeking justice outside of the official system when they know or feel that the official system has no interest in delivering justice.

                • Redbaiter

                  Crimes against life or property are a different matter, but I will not report people for arbitrary offences such as exceeding drink driving limits, speeding, talking on their cellphone, any of that stuff. Its just divisive left wing shit that eventually corrodes a country and you end up like East Germany above.

                  And please stop saying I support Key.

                  When Little takes power, you may be able to say to most of the other dipshits on Kiwiblog et al that you didn’t see them complaining when Key was doing it, but you won’t be able to say that about me.

                  Here is just one example.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    Crimes against life or property are a different matter, but I will not report peopel for arbitrary offence ssuch as exceeding drink driving limits, sopeeding, talking on their cellphone. any of that shit.

                    You managed to contradict yourself in the same sentence. The reason why we have speed and drink drive limits and rules against driving while using the cell phone is because it kills people and often not the person doing the really stupid thing. In other words, these things are crimes against life.

                    In fact, as it stands I’d say that there’s enough evidence to say that capitalism itself is a crime against life as it continues to destroy the environment in its drive for profit but I’m sure that we will never see you call for capitalism to be abolished because of that crime.

                    • Redbaiter

                      No it does not. Take the drink driving limit. A person can exceed that limit and drive home every night of their life and never hit or kill or maim anyone. Its an arbitrary amount that has no real relationship to the committing of an offence.

                      If a person crashes into someone and kills or maims them, and they have been drinking, and the drinking is proved to be an influence, then charge them and make sure the sentence is punitive enough to discourage them and others from taking the risk.

                      You do not make criminals out of innocent people. Set up roadblocks and carry out suspicionless searches. That is another characteristic of left wing tyranny. It begins small and gets bigger. As in East Germany under the Stasi.

                      Don’t any of you Leftists know anything of history?

                    • McFlock

                      Translation: redbaiter refuses to report violations of laws he is too stupid to understand…

              • lprent

                The Stasi were just carrying on the great tradition of Himmler and the earlier brownshirts, A mass informer society.

                The spanish fascists were the same for longer.

          • Colonial Rawshark

            What Bullshit. Dirty Politics is an organised programme of media dirt designed to attack Labour and distract from National Government incompetence and misdeeds at key junctures.

      • McFlock 1.4.3

        says in the article that using a handheld phone was illegal. My understanding is that handsfree is legal.

        Doesn’t actually say whether the infringement was for the phone or, say, failing to indicate a lane change.

        • Pasupial

          The ODT has (in a reprint of the NZH article):

          Asked whether he was driving dangerously, Mr Cunliffe said: “I always indicate if I think I am approximate to traffic. I may have changed lanes, but I do not believe I was driving erratically at any point.”


          Fuck that shit! You should always indicate before you change lanes whether you think anyone else in nearby or not. Cunliffe sounds like someone trying to excuse pointing a gun at a crowd by claiming he didn’t think it was loaded.

          I’m saying this as someone who thought that Cunliffe had better ideas than any other leader in Labour in decades. Little may turn out to be a more effective leader due to less caucus hostility, but I’m yet to be impressed (though still early days).

          Also; Clemgeopin, the quote in the ODT (haven’t looked at Stuff yet) is:

          Mr Cunliffe said the phone was on “hands-free” mode and he “didn’t realise it was an offence”, though he clarified that he was holding the phone with one hand. He was fined $80 by a police officer.

          Even with a genuine legal hands-free set-up; research demonstrates that phone calls are a distraction to driving competence. Simply using the loudspeaker mode on a normal cellphone would surely be even worse. Not quite as idiotic as txtng while driving though.

          Is the timing of media release suspicious? Hell yes. Should that excuse an MP ignoring the law for personal convenience? Fuck no!

          • McFlock

            lol ah, so he had it on speakerphone.

            Amazing the mileage on an $80 traffic ticket, though…

          • mickysavage

            Wouldn’t you be more worried about more serious offending? Like indecent assaults on children?

          • Clemgeopin

            I entirely agree with you. If Cunliffe broke the law, he should be ticketed and pay the fine. No issue about that. He should know better.

            My issue is about the aspects I have mentioned connected with the news reports in our media, such has HOW and WHY and by WHOM did this leak take place and became public knowledge. Is it legal and fair to do so? Was the police or the minister or the PM involved in this leak of privacy? Have no other MPs ever broken a traffic rule and fined? If any do exist, have all those cases too been exposed in the media?

            The stuff link I posted is still as it was in the morning I think. I have now read your ODT link.

            I wish our MSM, the journalists, the political commentators are fairer, show more integrity and professionalism and delve deep into HEAPS of other important issues such as the truth and cost behind the Iraq armed deployment, electronic surveillance of all, the Lu donation truth, the bio security inefficiency, the dirty politics, black ops operations, the truth about the Charter schools, the $50,000/day or so spent on a social Welfare Ministry’s CEO visit somewhere, the 43K review cost we have to pay for Brownlee jumping over the security gate without being charged etc just as a few examples

            They don’t seem to hold the National Party Ministers and their MPs to the same degree of minute scrutiny as they do for Labour. Something is just not right.

  2. factoids:..

    1)..america has only not been at war..for 21 yrs out of the 237 since the founding of the country..

    (‘if not them..who..?’..eh..?..)

    2)..when national took power there were 40,000 nz’ers on the minimum wage..

    ..there are now 160,000 nz’ers on the minimum wage..

    ..(well done john key/the tories..!..eh..?..)

    3)..in a country that once had no homeless…

    ..there are now over 30,000 nz’ers ‘sleeping-rough’..

    ..(well done both national and labour..!..eh..?..)

    4)..alcohol is 114 times more dangerous than cannabis..

    5)..cunnliffe has a new nickname..it is the name he is known as on a chinese dating-site..

    ..meet ‘brighton’…

    • and if you see cunnliffe out and about..

      ..can i suggest u call out to him:..’brighton..!..is that you..?’…

    • oh..!..i almost forgot..!

      ..we ‘can’t afford’ to do anything about poverty/homelessness..

      ..but we can afford to spend $65 million to be spear-carriers for the psycopathic/war-mongering fucken americans..

    • Hutty 2.3

      Morning Phil, where did you get the info for your second fact? It is interesting…

      • phillip ure 2.3.1

        morena hutty..

        ..from q-time @ parliament yesterday…

        ..and that’s not even going near the abomination that is zero hours-contracts..

        • Hutty

          Do you know whose speech/speaking it was in? Cheers

          • phillip ure

            don’t quote me..but i think question 4..

            ..(parliamentary website has full-transcript..u shd b able find it there..)

            • Draco T Bastard

              You mentioned it, you find it.

            • McFlock

              I’ve looked at question time for yesterday, and can’t find it, phil.

              There was one mention of the average wage in regards to benefit levels, and joyce made a passing reference to the starting out wage, but I can’t find anything close to what you mentioned.

              • oh well..i don’t make things up..it was said..

                ..(n.b..i am not making the claim..i am reporting what i heard..)

                ..and if ball-busting over it..surely labour dept stats wd help you..?

                • McFlock

                  Hang on, so now I need to find evidence to support an assertion that you can’t show ever existed?

                  Whatever you “heard”, it wasn’t where you claim it was said. So at best you’re mistaken about where it was said, at worst you made it up, and the middle ground is that you simply heard wrong.

                  And you get pissy when people like wayne and northshoredoc just plain ignore you most of the time…

                  • i am possibly mistaken about where i heard it..(i spend my days in a sea of information..)

                    ..but i definitely heard it..

                    ..and if that isn’t good enough for you..

                    ..that’s tough-bikkies..eh..?

                    ..and yep..! northshoredoc just won’t answer about the freebies he gets from big-pharma..(‘conferences’ in exotic-locales being just one..eh doc..?..)

                    ..and ‘wayne’ has been nowhere near general debate since i asked him about the war-crimes committed by nz soldiers (handing prisoners over to be tortured) while he was minister of defence..

                    ..(war-crimes he initially denied..then he just ran to his fox-hole..

                    ..where he has remained ever since..)

                    i wd like to ask him those questions again..and hopefully get a straight answer from him..

                    • Hutty

                      In recent articles on the Minimum wage increases over the last two years:

                      In April 2014, the min wage rose to $14.25, CTU economist Bill Rosenberg said “…More than 100,000 people were on or close to the new minimum wage…”


                      However on this years rise to $14.75, Helen Kelly said “…Helen Kelly said over 300,000 workers were on or near the minimum wage.”


                      Seems hard to believe that an extra 200,000 people are ‘on or near’ the min wage in just a year. Suppose it depends on far ‘near’ is from the minimum wage.

                    • freedom

                      Phil, after a lot of reading, your point number 2 does not appear in the transcripts of Parliament for this past week, so if you do happen to remember who/when it was said, just let us know and perhaps we can search the videos for it but I’m not going to do that without a bit more detail.

                      Seeing as you eventually have admitted you may have misheard or mistakenly assigned the source to question time, why all the animosity? No one was having a go at you, (apart from draco of course but isn’t that what you two do for fun ?)

                      Asking for more details is something you do all time, so maybe….

                    • McFlock

                      ..and ‘wayne’ has been nowhere near general debate since i asked him about the war-crimes committed by nz soldiers (handing prisoners over to be tortured) while he was minister of defence..


                      Wayne’s been commenting regularly, just not to you. In fact, I definitely remember correcting you on that claim before, I just can’t remember where. Oh, I know, rather than expecting you to do my work for me, I’ll do the search myself: oh look, it was a week and a half ago. So now I have reason to doubt your memory of what was said on any particular topic, rather than just where it was said.

                      The fact that you are quite probably delusional is most likely the reason you will not get what you want from folk like wayne or northshoredoc – no matter what they say, even if they are in the right you will merely “hear” what you have already decided to hear and go off on a rabid, unintelligible tangent.

                    • @ freedom..no..i did not mishear..i did not say i misheard..

                      ..i am very certain about what i heard..

                      ..i said i was not sure where i heard it..

                      …but it was yesterday..

                    • @ flock..

                      ..’wayne’ has not been back to where i can ask him..the general debate..

                      ..asking him where he appeared..wd have been clear thread-disruption..

                      ..i presume yr links are not general-debate..?

                    • McFlock


                      I disappeared for a wee while to search @wayne.

                      How long have you been carrying this torch? Because I’ve got some bad news for you, phil: wayne seems to have commented on an open mike once, in late 2013. And you missed your opportunity to righteously challenge him – for shame.

                      That single comment is what stands between you and your “back” being complete bullshit.

                      It seems it might not be all about you…

                    • northshoredoc

                      “and yep..! northshoredoc just won’t answer about the freebies he gets from big-pharma..(‘conferences’ in exotic-locales being just one..eh doc..?..)”

                      Already answered this a couple of times during your previous diatribes Phil, perhaps you were otherwise engaged or it has slipped your memory.

                    • remind us all..doc..

                    • northshoredoc

                      That’s what the search engine on the site is for phil.

                    • oh..!..u r so coy on this subject..aren’t you..?

                      ..why is that..?

                      ..from memory u said these holidays (sorry..!.’conventions’..) in exotic locales..

                      ..were part of yr ongoing ‘training’..?

                      ..is that correct..?

                      ..and the lobbying/wh.y. from big-pharma reps has absolutely no influences on yr prescribing..eh..?..

                    • northshoredoc

                      “….. from memory ….”

                      I thought this thread had offered some confirmation that you should not rely on your memory.

                    • u duck and weave like a sweating tory politician..

                      ..don’t you..?

                    • northshoredoc

                      @phil…. no…..eh

                    • ‘no’..that you are not ducking and weaving like a sweating tory politician..?

                      ..or ..’no’..that u won’t talk about yr ongoing relationship with big-pharma..?

                      ..btw..when is yr next paid-for-by-drug-company-holiday..(sorry..!..medical-conference..) scheduled..?

                      ..and which exciting/exotic locale will it be in..?

                    • Yes that’s right Phil I’m currently sunning myself in Jamaica – all expenses paid by multinational pharmaceutical companies all in return for changing all my patients onto their drugs once I return to NZ.

                      They are flying me back via Mars where their hypnotoad overlords will be further indoctrinating me.

                    • astonishing how you seem to so blissfully deny the well-documented phenomenon of the influence big-pharma has over doctors-prescribing..

                      ..and the ‘bribes’ that are given to doctors to achieve those ends..

                      ..are you denying this internationally recognised fact/evil..?

                      (and maybe not jamaica..but wanaka is nice this time of yr..eh..?..)

                      i will try again to ask you the question:..what/where was the last ‘conference’ you went to..?

                      ..and what financial-assistance did you receive from big-pharma to attend..?

                      ..and when/where is the next one..?

                    • northshoredoc

                      Melbourne …. and no.

                      ….and not playing this game anymore all your questions have been answered …in all honestly it’s probably more useful trying to have an online conversation with one of your deceased canines than trying to engage with yourself….eh ?

                    • and how much financial assistance from big-pharma did you get to attend..?

                      ..and a slur/slag around my recently deceased 16 yr old dog..?

                      ..that i am still seriously grieving over..?

                      ..really putting the ass/arse in ‘class’..

                      .aren’t you..?..eh..?

                      ..you fucken shabby piece of crap….

                      and yes..readers here can see yr evasions..

                      ..and we all know you are just another big-pharma tool…

                      ..pimping their poisonous shit for them…

                      ..bought/owned by them..

                      ..the hypocratic-oath..eh..?

                      ..you clearly live by it..

                    • Northshoredoc


                      “..and a slur/slag around my recently deceased 16 yr old dog..?

                      ..that i am still seriously grieving over..?”

                      Perhaps you should’ve had the dear old thing stuffed and mounted next to your computer ….. then you could commune with it rather than typing your ellipsis loaded diatribes……….eh ?

                    • do you usually hit the turps on a friday nite..?

                      ..is that where u get yr bravado from..?

                      ..and you wouldn’t say that to my fucken face..wd u..?

                      ..u gutless piece of shite…

                      ..and u a north shore doctor…eh..?

                      ..flying the flag for the profession..eh..?

                    • that’s a definition of cowardice..isn’t it..?

                      ..saying something hiding behind a nom de plume..

                      ..that you wd not say to that persons’ face..

                      ..and be assured..

                      ..i wd love to question you about yr big-pharma links..

                      ..face to face..

                      ..but/bet u wouldn’t like that..wd u..?

                    • northshoredoc


                      Oh dear, what’s with all the ellipsoidal abuse……….eh ?

                      I thought you didn’t dislike anyone…….eh ?

                      …. and here’s me thinking that all that pot was supposed to mellow you out…eh ?

                      ….hopefully I never have to have your mug in front of me…if your incoherent tosh on this site is anything to go by……your gobbledegook in person must be completely intelligible dribble……eh.

                      Poor old pooch having to put up with a human like you, wouldn’t surprise me if the poor old dear gave up the ghost after listening to your rambling on another pot fuelled afternoon………….eh ?

                    • McFlock

                      Actually, avoiding being stalked by deranged stoners is a very good example of why some people prefer to use pseudonyms.

                    • a bit more of that piss-bravery in you..eh..?

                      ..and you don’t like yr doctor-infallibility being questioned/laughed at..do ya..

                      ..ya fucken pill-pusher..

                  • TheContrarian

                    Standard Phil – this happens daily.

                    “I heard something but can’t find any evidence of it but I know I heard it so get fucked and go find the info the supports it.”

                    • “.. this happens daily. ..

                      ..care to cite/link to..oh..!..let’s say just two of these ‘daily occurances’..?

                      ..you bullshit-artist you..

                    • TheContrarian

                      Why should I have to cite anything to you?

                    • @ contrarian..

                      ..maybe not to prove you are a total bullshit artist..’daily occurance’..

                      ..but ok..’total bullshit-artist’ can/will stand..

                      ..your call..

                    • McFlock

                      So if you refuse to cite, we should trust you, but when someone else refuses to cite, they’re total bullshit artists.

                      Fish, meet barrel. You’ll be happy there for a while, no troubles.

                • This is the most recent report I can find:


                  It claims 54,000 are on the minimum wage. However, the figure quoted in the previous year’s report was 80K, so they may have changed the recording mechanism. Also, firms are advised to pay marginally more than the minimum so that their workers are less likely to get assistance from MBIE if they need it (they are required to help minimum wage workers, but not necessarily minimum +10c per hour workers).

                  The effect of raising the minimum also sweeps up groups of workers who used to be above minimum, but who have not kept pace due to not getting annual rises. So that 54,000 probably rose in 2013/14.

                  However, I can’t see how even the 80,000 figure quoted in 2012 could become 160,000 a couple of years later.

                  Having said that, Phil’s point remains; under National more workers are on the bare minimum. Not only that, many are on 90 day fire at will contracts, zero hour arrangements and the like, so certainty of employment has also diminished.

                  “We would love to see wages drop.” John Key, 2008.

    • David H 2.4

      His name is Cunliffe NOT CuNNliffe FFS it’s in the papers enough

      • phillip ure 2.4.1

        u get todays’ pedant-award..

        ..i mean..who cares..?..

        ..and anyway..i much prefer his chinese-dating-site name…


        ..and i shall call him ‘brighton’ from here on in..

        ..u ok with that spelling..?

  3. saveNZ 3

    Gosh that is more exciting that TV1 expose a few weeks ago that Cadbury were reducing their bar size!

    I almost forgot in the excitement, that John Key is sending our troops into an illegal war in Iraq without UN or Security Council approval.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1

      I almost forgot in the excitement, that John Key is sending our troops into an illegal war in Iraq without UN or Security Council approval.

      As our assistance has been requested the UN doesn’t come into it. Of course, the fact that the government was talking about going before the request came does indicate that we would have gone with or without the Iraqi request.

      • Colonial Rawshark 3.1.1

        Our assistance was requested by the Shia side of the sectarian Parliament, and no official paperwork drawn up around it. It’s very minimal cover for our intervention in a civil war.

        • Draco T Bastard

          I got the distinct impression that the request from Iraq was done at the behest of the USA to give a cover for their invasion that they weren’t going to get any other way.

          • Colonial Rawshark

            Pretty much – I think your conclusion makes sense. And I think the USA already checked in with John Key to ensure that our answer would indeed be “yes.”

  4. Paul 4

    The rich praise the rich.
    Importing massive amounts of sweatshop produce, building big boxes that close down other retail and destroy town centres, create lousy low paid work.
    Yes Tindall really did make life better for thousands of NZers.
    The shareholders of the Warehoise.
    It’s like the Walmart family being awarded in the US


    • tc 4.1

      Yup and team tindall have been acquiring other niche kiwi etailers etc to ensure the empire of crap continues to prosper. The many brands one owner strategy you see in logistics, booze, dairy products etc.

      I only shop at red shed when I don’t expect my purchase to be well made or have longevity but hey that’s the world we live in….never mind the quality feel the width.

    • i know..!..i am still gathering my (gobsmacked) thoughts over that one..

      ..and not to mention the third world slave-workers/children he made his money off/thru..

      ..and you are right..it wd be like america making walton american-of-the-year..

    • Molly 4.3

      Posted the link to Auckland Conversations last week on the topic of housing, and the introduction to the event was full of praise for Stephen Tindall (who attended) and the Warehouse. (Youth & Community Economic Development – David Turner)

      I haven’t heard Len Brown speak in public for a while, and was not impressed. Very sycophantic to business overall, and Tindall and the Warehouse specifically on this occasion. I had to only listen with moderate attention to this lovefest, and so could look at these guys and ponder whether their egos are so fragile they must constantly puff each other up at every opportunity:
      “Like me, like me, – I like you – d’ya like me…?”

      The Warehouse has some form of school to work programme, called “Red Shirts in Schools”. If you are interested in seeing the disaster that can be if not managed properly – go and have a look at some the Academy schools in the US. Particularly in areas that are struggling.

      The feature speaker, David Turner was – by contrast – much more interesting to listen to.

      He spoke of the success of the Swiss system which provides long-term and extensive work business relationships to students, and the experience and effort that goes into ensuring apprenticeships and students have a good fit. This includes a vast resource of independent career counselors and a “three strikes and your in” understanding. That is, businesses are aware that some students who have had no prior experience in industry will require three placements before they have the skills and knowledge to be ready to participate.

      He also said that businesses meet regularly to discuss the progress of their “apprenticeships” and keep up with the progress of students that have moved on to other placements. While there is some degree of financial strategy, they recognise they are contributing to the common good. When was the last time we heard that phrase in NZ in the same sentence as business?

      He also suggested that he believed that fundamentally business owners in Switzerland got involved in these programmes because of their humanity.
      And for the RWNJ reading this, the word is not synonymous with public relations.

      Without being undiplomatic, he stated that the business relationships in Australia – where he is from – is not set up to do this kind of support, and until it is, it is likely that repeats of past exploitation of young people would happen. He said he was unqualified to comment on NZ, but if business networks were similar it would have to undergo a big change.

      Almost worth listening to Len Brown’s valentine at the beginning – to hear the words business, humanity and common good linked together.

      (Unfortunately, Len Brown left after his introduction – so missed an opportunity for a bit of education himself.)

  5. saveNZ 5

    Really good stuff on
    Including Cash for Questions in UK,

    followed by Money laundering from the National party donations,

    Greens actually spent more money on the election than Labour (again Labour not listening on the moral issues here so missing out on votes and donations),

    GCSB’s obsession with “network security” (which, thanks to Snowden, we now know means “making sure people don’t plug the backdoors we use”) is killing research and driving tech companies out of the country.

    SIS’s slow vetting procedures appear to have interfered with the establishment of IGIS’s office and their recruitment of staff. Vetting is their core function, but apparently it still takes months.
    IGIS currently has an own-motion inquiry into the SIS underway “which arose from the regular inspection of intelligence warrants [and] is the first Inspector-General inquiry into the “propriety” of particular activities of an intelligence and security agency”. Which sounds as if SIS are abusing their powers. Unfortunately, as its “operational”, all the details are classified, and we’ll only be getting a summary at the end of it. Its unclear whether the victims of any SIS impropriety will be informed of the violation of their rights so they may take legal action against the spies.
    Because they’d only been in the role for seven weeks, the IGIS can not certify that GCSB and SIS are complying with their legislation.

    So, it turns out that Sky City’s surprise “cost overrun” on their crony-deal convention centre was their plan all along, and that the government knew about it from the beginning:

    Well worth reading!

  6. freedom 6

    Here is an article on a crucial aspect of the Iraq conflict that is not getting discussed but is most certainly going to play an ever increasing role in the (re)establishment of a stable Iraq nation.

    Iran has always had a hands on influence in many parts of Iraq but appears to be strengthening its presence. As there is little information on this area of the political situation in Iraq, we have no way to know the veracity of the claims, but that can be said of most aspects of this conflict.

    I adapted the map to show where “behind the wire” puts our troops

    View post on imgur.com

    • freedom 6.1

      “Here is an article on a crucial aspect of the Iraq conflict that is not getting discussed..”
      I should have said …discussed in the mainstream public arena and the MSM news services…

  7. Tautoko Mangō Mata 7

    “Canada’s electronic surveillance agency is covertly monitoring vast amounts of Canadians’ emails as part of a sweeping domestic cybersecurity operation, according to top-secret documents.”

    Bet the GCSB is doing the same. What are Palintir here for, now?

  8. i am caught on the horns of a moral dilemma..

    ..i have been offered (much-needed) ‘dirty money’..

    ..the facts of the matter are that i have a hellish job keeping up with the costs etc. of running whoar..+ life..on the dole..

    ..(i actually went totally ‘dark’ on tues…pre-paid electricity ran out sooner than expected..and no money to top it up..that was an interesting 24hrs….)

    ..and i have received an offer to host some paid-content..for an online gambling casino…

    ..what to do..?..

    ..while loathing how the gambling-industry exploits the weakest..

    ..i am not actually opposed to people having the right to throw their money away in whatever stupid way they choose…

    ..aarrgghh..!..those horns are sharp..!

    • vto 8.1

      hee hee classic dilemma mr ure… whatcha gonna do? Firstly, don’t worry about electricity it is entirely over-rated unless you have a freezer full of food. I know a few who stay off the grid and it works fine…. biggest problem likely to be punching out the daily squawk online.

      so, to be or not to be – whether tis nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to take arms against a sea of struggles…..

      you know what you are going to do – you are just temporarily weakened by the devil of temptation.

    • Chooky 8.2

      don’t do it!…its the beginning of the end…and you will lose credibility…the great thing about this site is that it is classy and clean ….has no tacky or amoral or immoral ads

      • phillip ure 8.2.1

        chooky..i am talking about whoar..not here..

        ..’y’know..!..that ‘cartoony-site’ you make sure you stay well away from..?

        • Chooky

          i know that…if you start advertising gambling that makes it worse…even although i dont look at it

        • Anne

          Agree with trp below. It’s well and good to maintain principles and decency – all for it – but you’ve got to live Phil. The constant worry about having no money (been there) means you can’t be much help to anybody let alone yourself. Go for it.

    • Well, that explains why you didn’t comment on my post on Tuesday, Phil!

      For my tuppenceworth, I think you should put the ads up. I don’t see it as a moral compromise or lowering your site’s credibility. It’s just not that kind of website, it’s a news aggregator, not a forum for philosophical discussion. Unlike dope, casino’s are legal, though I wish the situation was reversed.

      Use the money to get a regular power account (pre-pay is a total rip off) and maybe think about solar, if that’s possible where you live.

      • phillip ure 8.3.1

        “.. and maybe think about solar..”

        i’ll do that after i’ve got the pony all sorted out..eh..?..

        ..and i am well aware glo-bug pre-pay is a total gouge..

        .the power company forced me onto it..against my will/protestations..

        ..(their reason..?..my payments were not always on the day..(tho’ i note my power had never been disconnected..the bills were paid..)

        ..this is one of the ways the poorest get fucked over…

        ..and here’s another one…!

        ..fucken animal control..and the fascist bitches (yes..!..i meant to say that..!..stick yer fucken p.c..!..) that drive around in those red vans..

        a few months ago..they came to my house..having received a complaint that my dogs weren’t registered..

        ..my old dog had been registered..but it had expired..and the little one wasn’t..

        ..i pointed out that it wasn’t deliberate..more an outcome of poverty..

        ..(and i noted that the old-dog was on her death-legs..was nearly gone..(she died about three weeks later..)

        ..and this meant nothing..despite this fascist-bitch agreeing that yes..she was clearly near the end..

        ..so i went and borrowed the money to get both dogs registered..

        ..and then..here is the kicker..!

        ..as well as these two horror-shows talking to me in a way they would never address say..a gang-member..?

        ..(the true mark of the coward-bully..the careful selection of who they will fuck over..)

        ..i maintained politeness..(with great difficulty..)

        ..and then..two weeks later..hand-delivered to my letterbox..

        ..two tickets..back-dated..for $300 each..for having unregistered dogs…

        ..(a malicious afterthought..?..it was never mentioned to me..)

        ..i was unable to pay that $600 fine..

        ..so it has worked its’ way thru the system..

        ..and i have just been told it + the requisite penalties – will be taken from my benefit..

        ..(so that was over $1,000 ..that they screwed me for..seems fair..?..eh..?..).

        ..i see in the media that there will be an inquiry into animal-services auckland..and how they operate..after allegations of cruelty by their officers..

        ..i would like to give evidence to that inquiry..

        ..about what would seem to be their ‘normal-practices’..

        ..because if these pieces of human excrement did this to me..

        ..you can bet that is what they are doing to everyone,..

        (except gang-members..!..of course..!..)

        • Chooky

          …sounds pretty bad alright!….and for many a dog or pet companion is crucial for emotional health when you are down and out ( the people who enforce these rules male or female have to be callous…no other person could do the job)

          ….maybe yu or others should keep a poverty diary somewhere on line….so people can see in detail what a hard struggle it is…even in New Zealand

          I have some idea because i was brought up by a solo parent, who had a professional job, but it was still a struggle ….and i also have a very well educated professional friend who has a long term chronic health problem and is invalided in a state house which could be sold out from under him

          ….the day to day worry and grind of poverty and living on benefits should be chronicalled for all to see in dairy form…maybe 7 people each take a day of the week?

          (btw…where is Xtasy these days ?)

          • Molly

            +1 on xtasy. Was wondering the same thing just the other day. Would like to hear from them again.

        • Skinny

          Things sound a tad grim sorry to hear Phil, however your a stoic chap and harvest
          time is near, just remember to give the taxman his share and all will be fine. Take the money from whoever is trying to scam your morals.

          I would rather dog owners were registered, I think its sucks they fine you on your own property. Caught in public would be inline with cars. You don’t get fined for having an unregistered car on your property only in public.

          Maybe we could fund raise for you, say if you had a wash, a short back and sides, a shave and if you get a real job a hold it we could top up your pay.

    • TheContrarian 8.4

      Have you looked at applying for jobs in your area? Works for me

      • b waghorn 8.4.1

        …. fucking work
        ……..it’s oppression is work

        …..enslavement I tell ya

        ….for whoars sake s

  9. AsleepWhileWalking 9

    Hot war on it’s way

    Another Vital JB-SFC
    By Turd Ferguson | Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 8:46 am

    I cannot emphasize strongly enough how critically important it is for you to listen to these weekly Ukraine discussions and last night’s episode was no different. Please make the time to give this a thorough listen.

    Among the topics covered last evening:

    – The inside details of the peace negotiations held last week in Minsk
    – A thorough summary of the devastating UAF retreat from Debaltsevo
    -The increasing possibility of a coup to depose Ukraine president Poroshenko (and it is this possibility and aftermath that has me most concerned right now)
    -The ongoing demonization of Russia and Putin by the war parties of the west

  10. freedom 10

    Any bets on what the MPs’ salary numbers will look like by the end of the day ?


    “After the last round of wage rises, authority chairman John Errington warned the gulf between Cabinet ministers and top executives was growing and would be addressed in the next determination.”

    Will the Ministerial Salary break the $300,000 mark ? Or will it slip in at $295,000
    (allowances taking it closer to $350k+ of course )

    + I’m picking the base MP rate to hit $155,000

    • and when you think of the incompetent clowns pulling down $300 grand..

      (we’re looking at you..!..foss-the-hapless..!..and the minister with the faraway-eyes..!..)

    • vto 10.2

      ” the gulf between Cabinet ministers and top executives”

      I read this line and just about threw up…. a Minister occupies a wholly different role in society than a ceo, different responsibilities, different obligations, different purposes, different organisations, different people, different powers…….

      there is no comparison

      shit of the horse

      • Draco T Bastard 10.2.1

        And, of course, the employers of MPs don’t get a say in how much we should pay them. I think this should be determined by referendum.

    • Colonial Rawshark 10.3

      The senators of Rome sit back in their luxurious bubble while the serfs in the provinces slowly starve.

      • phillip ure 10.3.1

        doing the commentaries on q-time means i see the disconnect between how people are suffering..

        ..and how these fucken clowns spend their days point-scoring against each other..

        ..seemingly oblivious to the shit so many nz’ers are going thru..

        ..(and it is not just the fucken tories..!..it is also the useless arse-wipes in give-the-poorest-fuck-all!/no way will we legalise cannabis!..mine/drill/spying on nz’ers’is ok with us!..

        ..fucken labour..!

        ..the disconnect is the size of cook straight..

      • rawshark-yeshe 10.3.2

        and we know many of them are truly fiddling …

    • Chch_Chiquita 10.4

      I wonder if Bill English is going to say no thank you since he is so concerned about the growing debt and the need to cut government expenses.

      It will be interesting to see if any MP is going to say no thank you.

      • freedom 10.4.1

        The PM has answered with the usual pathetic line ‘i don’t want it but my hands are tied’

  11. dv 11

    If the ministers and MP are not paid a good salary how will you get competent managers?

    Oh but wait……

  12. freedom 12

    How soon before we see a law like this? 🙁
    Pesky damn science folk and all their facts pfft who needs that sort of hassle when you are trying to make some bloody money!
    Here’s hoping the veto promise is kept.

    • Molly 12.1

      Just put down the book Science for Sale – by David L Lewis, a microbiologist who previously worked for the EPA in the 1990’s.

      Don’t agree with all his scientific positions – at the end he makes statements about climate change that are not founded in any studies – but the history he outlines about his employment with EPA, and his treatment is very interesting.

      Also, he studied the likelihood of infection from endoscopes, and attempted to have the accepted sterilisation of the equipment improved, as current practices not only did not remove all infectious material, practitioners were not even following that.

      He suggests that most ethical scientists left or were pushed out in the early 1990s.

      Perhaps never before have science and private industry collaborated in search of material gains to the extent that they do now. Consumers are becoming unwitting, and in some cases unwilling, test subjects in experiments carried out by government officials working with private industry. The products they sell may change, but their objective stays the same, which is to make a killing without anyone finding out how many people they kill. To this end, government and industry manipulate science to promote nonexistent benefits and create the illusion of safety. On the other hand, scientists who publish valid data in the public interest are incresingly at risk of having their careers ended and reputations destroyed.”

      • freedom 12.1.1

        The revolving door of corporate execs and government panels is as dangerous as it is extraordinary. Thanks for the tip, will see if the local library has it/can get it in.

        • Molly

          I have it from the Auckland City libraries, so it’ll be back in circulation there in the next week or so…

    • Draco T Bastard 12.2

      Business don’t like science as it gets in the way of them doing whatever they want. Same can be said of some politicians who only do the bidding of business anyway.

      • aerobubble 12.2.1

        Women are more likely to be religious and so vote more conservatively. Power, money, are harder to obtain for women. So of course conservatives pander to companies and individuals who like them want to stifle change. And hey who wants change. But everyone who loathes change also wants to chase profits and wealth where it enriches themselves, so its not about companies or theists being anti-science, its about hypocrisy, taking the bounty of science and using the wealth created to shout how loathsome science is. You see the history of conservativismis the history of hypocritical lying two faced anti freedom,anti american, anti anything that gets in their way. imho its stupidity but others would call it a opportunity to scare the begeezous out of their comfort fantasies.
        Climate change,banking collapses, economics of oil peak, its all revenge on the stupid, and they deserve to have truth spoken to them.

  13. Gosman 13

    For those of you who have argued the Greeks achieved what they wanted during the recent negotiations here is a reality check


    Viva la revolution indeed.

  14. vto 14

    So it seems to be that muslims do not accept responsibility for jihadists, despite some/many suggesting that they should shoulder more of the responsibility because they share the same religion. And those that do suggest they are more responsible have been pilloried and even fired – evidence the crazy pastor down south http://www.anglicantaonga.org.nz/Features/Extra/Apology

    On a few occasions on here last year it was strongly suggested, and accepted by many, that men should shoulder more of the responsibility for the actions of rapists because they share the same gender.

    These two things don’t add up it seems. The cogs don’t mesh, the standards vary, the eyes refuse to see, the mind refuse to think ….

    Cunliffe is also an example of this confused, mixed-up and wrong-headed thinking, when he apologised for being a man. If he was also a muslim would he have apologised for being a muslim?

    So who is right? Both propositions cannot be right.

    • weka 14.1

      “On a few occasions on here last year it was strongly suggested, and accepted by many, that men should shoulder more of the responsibility for the actions of rapists because they share the same gender.”

      That’s not how I would put it. I would say that men have a particular responsibility that women don’t because its men’s business (how men relate in the world). And I would say that women have been shouldering the burden way more than is ok because in the past men haven’t been taking their responsibilities seriously. So it’s more about evening up the load.

      And by men, I mean men collectively. Obviously it varies hugely when it comes to individuals. But essentially we have rape culture, it’s not enough to say that that’s soley about men who rape, it’s about the things that promote rape, and of course men as a class have huge influence on that, including in ways that women don’t.

      tl;dr, women are already doing the work, when are men going to step up.

      • gsays 14.1.1

        hi weka,
        to be blunt, your comments , to me, are reminiscent of the statement (forgive me i do not recall who said it) “all men are rapists” from the ’80s.

        “women are already doing the work, when are men going to step up.”
        who are raising these men who are doing the raping?

        • weka

          to be blunt, your comments , to me, are reminiscent of the statement (forgive me i do not recall who said it) “all men are rapists” from the ’80s.

          Which means that you truly don’t understand what I meant 🙂

          (the statement “all men are rapists” is by a fictional character in a novel by Marilyn French. In order to understand why the character said that, you really need to look at it in context. It’s not what you think it is).

          “women are already doing the work, when are men going to step up.”
          who are raising these men who are doing the raping?

          Presumably their parents. Are you suggesting that men rape because of their upbringing?

          My statement about women doing the work refers to the women that have been doing the anti-rape work for decades (eg Rape Crisis). Where are the men’s organisations doing this work?

          • gsays

            hi weka,
            perhaps you are right, i may have got the wrong end of the stick about your comment.

            re the all men are rapists, i do recall that line being used (it may have been by a spokesperson from womens refuge) and getting repeated in the media, causing a stir, both because of the provocative nature of the comment and also how it was defended.
            it was in a climate where peter ellis was able to be convicted in the chch civic creche case.

            i am suggesting that men rape partly because of their upbringings, and i feel it is a lack of parents as opposed to a parent contributes to this.
            (a male in the household showing respect to women).

            to the best of my knowledge there are a few male groups (manline, court appointed anger management groups), all running on a tenuous shoestring budget. relying on goodwill of volunteers, much like rape crisis, i suspect.

            i would also point to groups like scouts and sports teams where civics, self esteem, cooperation are encouraged in our boys/young men.

    • weka 14.2

      “So it seems to be that muslims do not accept responsibility for jihadists, despite some/many suggesting that they should shoulder more of the responsibility because they share the same religion.”

      I think you are confusing responsibility and blame (which also explains your views in gender). I see Muslims being responsible when their communities work towards reducing fundamentalism. Men can do the same in reducing rape culture. That’s a different thing than Muslims being to blame for jihadists or men being to blame for individual rapists.

      The bishop in your link appears to be blaming individuals for other individuals’ actions over which they have no control. He also appears judgemental (Jews should have learned lessons from the holocaust) and hypocritical (why aren’t individual Muslims doing more to prevent their fundamentalists). Hard to tell from such a short article though.

      Cunliffe didn’t apologise for being a man. He apologised for the fact that domestic/sexual violence against women is overwhemingly done by men. And then he told men to wake up and man up and start doing the right things.

      There is not contradiction between all these things. The bishop was blaming individuals for things outside of their control. Everyone else is saying x, y, z isn’t ok, let’s work collectively to change that.

  15. ianmac 15

    Mike Hosking must be a wonderful chap. It says so at the “disclaimer” at the bottom of his applause for his hero Key.
    ” Mike’s insightfulness and knowledge makes him one of New Zealand’s most successful broadcasters.”

  16. grumpystilskin 16

    Mike Hosking is just another schoolyard loudmouth, it says more about the people that actually listen to his rantings/opinions then what comes out of his mouth.
    He’s not credible and only has his presenter/commentator status because people higher up think he’ll attract viewers/listeners to their medium. More punters = more cash in advertising. I’d rather listen to commentators like Rod Oram / Dame Anne Salmond , at least they are credible, can back opinions with researched facts and are not in it for the show.
    Mmm, seem to have my grumpy hat on today, again..
    Just finding the media more and more disappointing these days and getting sick of pointing out inconsistencies / false truths to friends. Like asking people if they know the full “I’m ashamed to be a man” quote when they bring it up. Once they realise what he actually said in context, opinions change very quickly.

  17. my little scooter-dog really really loves porridge…(loaded with fruit etc..)

    ..and he is just getting all waggy…saying ‘thanks..!’..

  18. Draco T Bastard 18

    World’s first grid-connected wave power station switched on in Australia

    After more than a decade of testing and demonstrations, Australian company Carnegie Wave Energy has switched on a pilot project that has begun feeding wave-generated electricity into a local WA grid.

    “This is the first array of wave power generators to be connected to an electricity grid in Australia and worldwide,” said Ivor Frischknecht, CEO of the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, in a statement. The Agency has provided $13 million of the $32 million project.

    More renewable energy successfully connected to the grid. Will be interesting to see how this goes.

    Not also that that project was only possible due to government support.

  19. One Anonymous Bloke 19

    Creationism in New Zealand schools.

    Xians, this is why people don’t trust you: telling lies to four year old children is bearing false witness.

    • adam 19.1

      Still think if they going to do this. I should have the opportunity to teach Atheism in schools.

      I even have a name for the programme.

      Children positivity classes – God is dead, and I killed him.

      • marty mars 19.1.1

        if there is no god then how could you have killed him?

        • Clemgeopin

          huum, tricky question that!

          Let me guess:

          God created everything, including adam (this one, but that one too).

          When adam got some ‘education’ and reasoning ‘power’, he became cleverer than God and stronger than God and killed him easily without bullets, just with his own powerful thoughts! Cool ye? God of course disappeared from adam’s life while adam was still alive.

          But, (there is always a but! ask PG)

          God did not really kick the bugger(strike out!) bucket at all. Having been rejected, He waited patiently for adam to die too, hoping to meet the poor soul once again someday sometime somewhere somehow.

          just saying….

        • Draco T Bastard

          Easy. You point out that god was only ever an incorrect belief system that has now been replaced by actual research and facts.

          • marty mars

            lol – actual research and facts eh – what disproves god?

            • Draco T Bastard

              Disproving the beliefs that surround the god phenomenon. The existence or not of god(s) is immaterial to the human condition.

              • I would have thought that one was even harder and well beyond ‘easy’ if it could be achieved at all.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  No, it’s easy – we’ve already done it after all. The problem is that some people refuse to believe.

                  • Colonial Rawshark

                    Materialists, measurementalists and the acolytes of scientism have always been such a self righteous bunch, in my experience. Forever wanting to force their own beliefs on to others, looking down on those heathen who refuse to adopt the faith, insisting that their way of looking at the universe and all the rich phenomena within it is the one and only way, and declaring knowledge from all other sources and especially from prophets without PhDs false and misleading.

                    Wow, that makes me think that you lot have a heck of a lot in common with the fundamentalist Christians. You guys should get together and compare notes.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Would you prefer to build a house using measured strengths or just believing that a 4×2 is strong enough to hold up a skyscraper?

                      Once we have things measured then they’re no longer beliefs. That’s the point. And at that point if you don’t accept them then you’re being delusional.

                      I have no faith in PhDs. What I do is accept the facts that the research has shown. Creationism has nothing to back it, no research and no observable data. In fact, the observable data precludes Creationism and many other items of faith within religious doctrine.

                      and declaring knowledge from all other sources and especially from prophets without PhDs false and misleading.

                      What other sources of gaining quantifiable knowledge are available?

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Once we have things measured then they’re no longer beliefs. That’s the point. And at that point if you don’t accept them then you’re being delusional.

                      Ahhhh, the delightful certainty of the measurementalist. (I made the term up myself, it’s actually an offshoot of the managerialism which has plagued western civilisation for the last 20 years).

                      So, according to your statement, once you have successfully measured something it is transmogrified and becomes sanctified in the faith as a known “fact”.

                      Such a fascinating belief system you have.

                      What other sources of gaining quantifiable knowledge are available?

                      You are treading close to heresy here! Do you dare imply that there are types of knowledge which cannot be quantified (measured)???

                    • Chooky

                      +100 CR

                    • It is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful [as a babelfish] could have evolved purely by chance that some have chosen to see it as the final proof of the NON-existence of God. The argument goes something like this:

                      “I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.”

                      “But,” says Man, “the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don’t. QED”

                      “Oh dear,” says God, “I hadn’t thought of that,” and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

                      “Oh, that was easy,” says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

                    • Clemgeopin []

                      But, if he gets killed on a zebra crossing, it proves that God does not exist because zebra crossings are definitely meant to stop people dying on zebra crossings.

            • TheContrarian

              “what disproves god”

              It isn’t about disproving god, god must be proved. Not the other way round.

                • TheContrarian

                  Burden of proof. The burden rests on the person making the positive assertion not the negative.

                  • Well you need to take that up with draco – he said, “Easy. You point out that god was only ever an incorrect belief system that has now been replaced by actual research and facts.”

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Take it up with me. The person making the extraordinary claim: that a god-creature exists in the form they assert (as opposed to the ones people from other countries propose), has to provide the evidence.

                      Actually, they don’t. unless they foist the performance upon children

                      When they demand the right to child victims, the crimes act provides the solution. Strangle the last priest with the entrails of the last homeopathist.

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      Fuck that. Why should someone from a different belief system have to satisfy the tenets of your belief system to be seen as valid.

                      What children should be taught, and what they will rarely be taught, is how to critically and creatively think about things beyond the realms of materialism and logic.

                      Strangle the last priest with the entrails of the last homeopathist.


                      By the way, its science and technology which is losing credibility in the world right now, not homeopathy.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke


                      Says an anti-science conspiracy theorist.

                    • TheContrarian

                      “By the way, its science and technology which is losing credibility in the world right now, not homeopathy.”

                      Bahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahha! Homeopathy is complete horseshit

                  • McFlock

                    Just as the complex mechanism of a watch requires a magician to hit it with a mallet, so too the complex nature of the universe requires a roll of multicoloured handkerchieves to surreptitiously unravel…

                    • lol but where did that watch and handkerchiefs (never would have believed that that was how you spell that word but there you go) come from. Anyway my original comment was about the killing god bit – I’m struggling to engage with this stuff tbh

                    • TheContrarian

                      This might help

                    • McFlock

                      The horologist is the watch’s god…

                      Existential kicking-around is fun, but largely pointless (other than as a logical exercise). I generally figure that if I wait a few decades (hopefully that long) I’ll find out either way, or not (as the case may be) 🙂

                    • Clemgeopin []

                      In the meantime, good to live a good, kind and ethical life anyway.

              • Clemgeopin

                ” god must be proved”

                Only upon your dead body, like the saying goes. Until then, it is for each one to believe or not whatever one thinks or feels is ‘true’.

                Is science the most powerful thing in the universe?

                Anyway, as an aside, I have a plan for my dead body and science.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Most powerful? Doubt it.

                  Most curious and inquisitive? Probably.

                  • Clemgeopin

                    Science is great. But no one, including Science, can ever in this life ‘PROVE’ or ‘DISPROVE’ there is a God, if there is a God, who is more powerful and the most powerful of all. Transcending dimensions, if you believe in the scientific theories of dimensions. Beyond the realm of known physics and science.

                    As an aside, for the curious:

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Oh you could prove it alright, if only you had evidence of one, (just one) phenomenon with no possibility of rational explanation.

                      Sixty thousand years, no evidence. Does that make deist mumbo-pocus less credible than 9/11 conspiracy theories much?

                    • Clemgeopin []

                      May be, by definition of divine and God, you shouldn’t expect any such worldly explanation or proof because God by definition transcends our dimension, reasoning, brain power, science and he/she/it is not of this world. So one has to have faith or a sense of life, soul, God, ethics, morals, conscience….or not.

                      Is human evolution complete?

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      OAB, why should anyone bother to submit to you types and categories of evidence that your personal belief system finds acceptable and valid?

                      How is it that your personal belief system led you to be so totally incurious and close minded? Is this really how science and technology advanced so far over the last 500 years of western civilisation?

                      How is it that someone like you knows so much better and so much more confidently than scientific geniuses like Einstein and Newton?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Well, Einstein’s work superceded Newton’s, and when he said “God does not play dice”, he was wrong, as delayed choice quantum erasure demonstrates.

                      That said, it’s pretty clear from your comment that you haven’t the first idea what I’m talking about. Again. Thus you twist my words into a new shape all your own.

                      In the first place I’m not asking you to submit evidence. I couldn’t give a toss about the brainless witterings of an anti-science fundie.

                      Secondly, I’m simply observing that if all phenomena are explicable by “natural” causes, there’s no room for miracles, and your sky fairy is just as bound by universal laws as the rest of us.

                      As for incurious, fuck off Tat.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Clem, there are masses of things that are “beyond the realm of known physics and science.”

                      Some, like out-of-body experiences, are replicable and as yet unexplained. Others, like dark matter, are areas of pure conjecture arising from observed phenomena.

                      This is called “the god of the gaps” – asserting that deity exists in the unknown, and then finding that the unknown keeps getting smaller.

                      Transcendental experiences lead deists to assert deity, and yet some of the oldest books in the world explain such things as evidence that everything is connected, and urge us to “trust in our senses”, while explicitly denying the existence of gods.

                      Meanwhile, religion is an accident of birth. Perhaps I’d be more accepting had I been born a Viking.

        • McFlock

          With my “logical paradox disruptor cannon”.

      • weka 19.1.2

        “Children positivity classes – God is dead, and I killed him.”

        Attaboy, get in with the fundamentalism while they’re so impressionable.

    • marty mars 19.2

      This one was disturbing

      The girl’s mother, who did not wish to be named because she feared further exclusion for her daughter, said frustrations boiled over when she saw the school’s Christian Religious Education (CRE) volunteer approach her daughter and other young children before school.

      It was understood he worked nearby and would come onto school grounds during break times to speak to children about religious matters.

      The girl said he approached her and other children “often” and spoke to them about God, heaven and angels.


  20. The Murphey 20

    The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) makes recommendations for
    routine vaccination of adults in the United States



    Q. How much control could the pharmaceutical companies and those behind them gain from a medical dictatorship ?

  21. adam 21

    Interesting stuff in Holland.

    Student protesters – showing some defiance.


  22. fail newkeyland

    “While we welcome the New Zealand government’s engagement with the Universal Periodic Review (UPR) process, the rejection of key recommendations to address social inequality is deeply concerning,” said Amanda Brydon, Advocacy Manager at Amnesty International New Zealand.

    “Unfortunately New Zealand has failed to show the world and our own people that the Government is willing to close the gap when it comes to human rights protection in our own country.”

    The Government accepted 121 of the recommendations made by States during New Zealand’s review process in January and rejected 34.

    Of the 34 that were rejected, a significant number offered specific advice on strengthening New Zealand’s legal protection of economic, social and cultural rights that would guide genuine solutions to addressing New Zealand’s poor performance on issues such as child poverty.

    New Zealand has one of the highest rates of relative child poverty in the developed world, with children frequently missing out on meals, getting sick with third-world diseases, living in poor housing conditions, underachieving at school and feeling marginalised in their communities.

    “Unfortunately, despite commitments to do so, the Government isn’t doing its utmost to address this, as by accepting some recommendations while rejecting others they are simply taking a band aid approach,” said Amanda Brydon.


    fix our issues up here before making worse issues for others.

  23. b waghorn 23

    Shit I’m in the wrong job I got $15 a week extra this year ..

    • Colonial Rawshark 23.1

      It’s because they deserve it….right???

      • b waghorn 23.1.1

        It’s a tuff job no doubt but they seem to get pretty big raises fairly often, I’d have a crack for 100k . not sure which party would have me though.:-)
        I notice our leader is making a bit of political hay going round saying he doesn’t want it but can’t do anything about it , funny he seems to be able to change laws when it suits him.

  24. Draco T Bastard 24

    Steve Keen: Rethinking Economics at the London School of Economics

  25. strange in a stranger land

    give the kid an overdose, pump his stomach and the charge the parents for the pumping ffs

    Graeme Dagg has also revealed he had to pay to save his son’s life because the mishap happened in a private hospital — which meant he was billed for pumping his son’s stomach.


    • McFlock 25.1

      yeah that seems a bit like a panelbeater smashing your windscreen and charging you for the new one…

      • greywarshark 25.1.1

        No McFlock it has to be more personal and intimate than that. It’s like a hospital that amputated your leg wrongly, and then charged you for the surgery and the legal counsel they needed to answer your complaint.

        The mother said she commented on the size of the syringe for the little boy, you would have thought it would have prompted a check by the nurse who was either distracted, rushing, or robotic. 85 mils instead of, appropriate for the child/s weight, a tenth or a hundredth of that.

        • McFlock

          Just putting one aspect of it it in more identifiable terms. Frankly, I’m intrigued that he was billed for the cost of their misconduct, in addition to being concerned that the misconduct occurred in the first place.

          I’ve no idea what it’s like to have a limb amputated, correct one or otherwise.

    • Draco T Bastard 25.2

      The bit that concerns me in that article is this:

      His son was supposed to be given 8.5mg of codeine before the operation, but he was given 85mg after both a nurse and senior nurse misread the prescription.

      The nurses discussed that it was a large dose but neither checked with the anaesthetist.

      The report also criticised the legibility and comprehensiveness of the anaesthetist’s documentation.

      Which tends to indicate that they were using hand-written documentation and that is just not acceptable. Some peoples handwriting is just simply unreadable and so we need to remove that from the equation.

      • dv 25.2.1

        >>T he nurses discussed that it was a large dose but neither checked with the anaesthetist.

        I wonder if there was a feeling of we mustn’t appear stupid by the nurses?

        And won’t ACC cover the expense as it was a medical mistake?

      • millsy 25.2.2

        If unsure, ask. I wonder why they didn’t? Only takes 5 mins to confirm a dose…

  26. aerobubble 26

    How to rid NZ of pests, rodents etc, drugs that irreparable cause rodents to miscarry would lead to a aging pop who could not reproduce.

  27. Philip Ferguson 27

    While Key talks about the Iraq deployment being the ‘price of the club’, it will be ordinary people in Iraq who pay that price not people like him or his kids (can anyone imagine Max or Stephanie Key on the frontline?)

    Veteran anti-imperialist activist Don Franks on the deployment:

  28. Draco T Bastard 28

    The General Theory of Employment by J Keynes

    It’s a shorter, more easily read version of The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money

    • Skinny 29.1

      I was disappointed by the much talked about Shaw. What was with the shiny suit, more fitting for the ACT party, the fit was terrible. This guy is a non event and should be kept to making Norman’s morning coffee. It will be the Nat/Greens if this guy is made co leader.

      • phillip ure 29.1.1

        i am aware he is a rightwinger..and dresses/looks like a young-tory-spiv..(think simon bridges..)

        ..and wd leap at the chance of a coalition with the tories…

        ..(and that if he did that..it wd cause the green party to implode..)

        ..and that he is most probably the most rightwing green party member in the country..

        ..i am not endorsing him..

        ..just pointing out that he was competent in his questioning of joyce..(who doesn’t usually divert from serial-sneering at any questioners..)

        ..and that it is likely a two-horse race between him and hague..

        ..(but if you watched the encounter between shaw and joyce..and thought shaw didn’t do ok..

        ..yr ideological-lenses are clearly affecting yr judgement-calls..)

        • Skinny

          I just think it was average at best, considering he wants to be leader. The other bloke has better creds although mollyhawk Hughes still fancies his chances.

          • phillip ure

            i agree that dr no should get it..

            ..and hughes has the unfortunate-blessing/curse of a young/baby-face..

            ..and as one similarly cursed/blessed i can tell him he can console himself with the fact he will appreciate that more and more..the older he gets..(heh..!)

            ..when all the craggy-faced ones are looking like shit..he won’t..

            ..but as for gravitas..?..nah..!..

            ..he always seems so ‘perky’..

            ..and he does try just a little bit too much/hard..

        • greywarshark

          @ In vino

        • Chooky

          i was very impressed with Shaw’s end of year speech to parliament ….is he really, really a right winger?

          ….I mean can Shaw be more right wing and wissey wussy than the Little Labour Party putting in Shearer instead of Norman or Metiria Turei on the spy committee …..and taking paid advice from right wing journalist David Cohen?…pot calling kettle black?

          ….really what is needed for the Green Party is someone with the charisma and abilities of Shaw to sock it to John Key Nactional…Shaw does have this ability

          …it has to be proven Shaw is a right winger and worse than the Labour Party before he is discounted imo…where is the proof ? I say…or is it just a smear campaign against someone with considerable ability who really can stick it to both Nactional and Little Labour ?

      • Ad 29.1.2

        Shaw is getting extremely experienced help from strong and longtime right activists.
        Shaw might want to post here to prove such fears wrong.

        • Chooky

          +100 Ad….yes I for one would be very interested to see Shaw’s real colours flying from the mast…he must come clean as to where he stands if he expects to get the Green vote for co-leadership…and he must be held to account to be true to his word

          …sometimes people who come from the right of the spectrum ( either by birth or education privilege or profession position) are nevertheless true democrats and Lefties eg Tony Benn ….so it does not pay to right them off without evidence…the Greens need the best and truest person for the job



        • Chooky

          @ Ad re your statement: “Shaw is getting extremely experienced help from strong and longtime right activists”

          ….where is the EVIDENCE?!

          ….we have evidence Little and Labour got paid advice/help from right wing journalist David Cohen…the same journalist who dissed and smeared Hone Harawira?

  29. mary_a 30

    Did anyone else notice in Parliament yesterday, when Key was questioned about the Lui donation dinner, he said he was there in his capacity as leader of the National Party! Wearing another hat again, other than that of PM!

    Key gets caught out time and time again, yet nothing happens to him! Who or what is protecting him?

    When is this SOB going to trip up?

    • Clemgeopin 30.1

      ,i>”when Key was questioned about the Liu donation dinner, he said he was there in his capacity as leader of the National Party!”

      Yeah right!

      If any one, any one at all, believes that Liu invited Key as the leader of National party and not because he is Prime Minister, then such a person is not only an idiot, but a stupid idiot.

      And is Liu such a nice innocent man that he would invite Key and his little boy Ross, to eat some dumplings and stuff, without having any ulterior dodgy motives like cash for favours? If yes, he should be knighted if not cannonaded as our very first Saint of Aotearoa NZ, along with Key and Jamie. Three in one, like the three way handshake for the troty. Cool bananas!

  30. Draco T Bastard 31

    The Phantom Underclass

    There’s a reason the Conservatives and their allies in the reactionary press invoke this phantom of the ‘underclass’. They are wrong, but not, as is often said, ‘out of touch’.

    That article mentions a study that shows that even poor people think that there are people who are work shy. The study couldn’t find these work shy people though.

  31. Morrissey 32

    Right wingers going batshit crazy on Twitter in 1936;
    Sean Hannity & co. freaking out about Triumph des Willens‘ Oscar loss

    Salon, February 23, 1936


    Divisive film Triumph des Willens took home a single Academy Award on Sunday night. Naturally, Sean Hannity and others were quick to come up with their reasons why this movie, which is about their favorite politician, did not nab top honors: “liberal Hollywood.”

    Hannity took to Twitter to share this “hot take.” Here were the right’s reactions to Triumph des Willens‘ loss:

    Sean Hannity: Triumph des Willens snubbed by liberal hwood Predictable. #CluelessOscars
    6:07 PM – 23 Feb 1936

    Terri Green @TerriGreenUSA
    Hey @TheAcademy from Americans all over this county you know who won at the Box Office? Triumph des Willens
    6:12 PM – 23 Feb 1936

    Ernesto @Liberty4480
    #Oscars1936 snub of #TriumphDesWillens is as bad as giving #wilson #NobelPeacePrize. Not surprised w #Hollywood #liberalbias #tcot #p2
    6:12 PM – 23 Feb 1936

    Brandon Morse @TheBrandonMorse
    Don’t worry about #TriumphDesWillens not winning an Oscar folks. It already won the award for best MUTHA FUCKIN MONAY! #Oscars1936
    7:17 PM – 23 Feb 1936

    Spencer Hawes ✔ @spencerhawes00
    Triumph des willens got absolutely robbed imho. Incredible story of an even more incredible man. #RIPHorstWessel
    6:10 PM – 23 Feb 1936


    Triumph des Willens (1935) – Triumph of the Will

  32. what is barker whining about..?

    ..he helmed the biggest-choke in nz sporting-history..

    • Skinny 33.1

      He sure did. This taxpayer gravy train has to stop. $100 million feeds a lot of kids. How on earth kiwi’s are easily conned is beyond me, the egotistical captains of industry must be laughing their heads off.

    • b waghorn 33.2

      Bullshit they were out walleted the yanks did shit to there boat that was’nt covered under the rules , the fact that the holders w
      right the rules is problem.

  33. cricko 34

    Hi Phillip Ure,

    Your opinion may carry some weight if you were to become a productive member of our society.

    How many years now have you been sucking on the public tit ?

    When did you last do an honest days work and receive a pay check ?

    C’mon Phil, tell us, what year was it when you were last paid for honest work ?

    • Cricko, we live in a society predicated on a unchanging pool of the unemployed that keeps wages down, workers subservient and poverty permanent. The real question isn’t about Phil, it’s about you. If you’re that fucken clever, why don’t you offer Phil a job?

      • cricko 34.1.1

        Hi te reo putake,

        I’m personaly not in a position to offer Phil Ure a job.

        However, people must apply for a job in order to be offered a job.

        Thats the way it normaly works.

        A bludger who sits on his arse, pontificates upon the shortfalls of others, and is happy to believe that his fellow citizens owe him, is never likely to apply for a job.

        Ask your mate Phillip Ure what year was it when he last even applied for a job.

        Get my point ?

        • te reo putake

          Nope. You’re pointless. I think there is a lot to be said about the dignity of work, but equally, I have no problem with those who aren’t, or can’t, be a model worker. Phil annoys me regularly, but I have more respect for him than I’ll ever have for you.

          • cricko

            What have I done to earn your disrespect ?

            What has Phil Ure done to earn your respect?

            How do you feel about those who could work but don’t and choose to be bludgers, just because they can ?

            Do they have your respect ?

            • te reo putake

              There’s a search function up on the right hand side. Enter ‘cricko’ and you’ll see why you haven’t earned my respect. Phil ‘works’, just not for someone else and (unless he’s taken the casino’s coin 😉 ) not for profit. From what little I know of him, I think he probably could do a ‘job’, but I know nothing about his circumstances, where he lives, what job options there are in his community.

              Phil seems to me to very capable of holding down a job, but everything I know about how WINZ are geared to punishment these days suggests to me that there must be valid reasons why that’s not an option.

              If you want to stand in judgement, then more fool you.

        • b waghorn

          You’re assuming all people are put together the same and can deal with getting up in the morn to go do something that in a lot of cases is drudgery
          I give Mr Ure a bit of stick on occasion but the world is a richer place with people in it that refuse to bow down to the norm.
          I’d rather a few of my tax dollars go to him than fucking sky city.

          • cricko

            b waghorn
            You can’t be serious.

            So, if tomorrow I decide I can’t deal with going to work any longer to support my family because it’s just drudgery.

            Then thats OK with you and you’ll pay for me and my family because I make the world a richer place ?

            How can I get in contact with you, because I’ve had a gutsfull of working. And I hate Sky City,

            • b waghorn

              Your a bit of a twister of words I doubt people decide they can’t deal with stuff .

            • greywarshark

              Everyone has something useful to do in society. For you it is working at some job that you can manage. For somebody else it is coping with an chronic illness and working when there is work available that that person can do. If they are using their brain to think and communicate information that is helpful to society, then that could be the best thing that they can do.

              You obviously have trouble understanding how society works and how people’s
              needs and abilities differ and you want simple answers, so stick to doing simple jobs that you can manage.

        • Colonial Rawshark

          Jobs are way overrated.

          People should be supported to do worthwhile work, for themselves, for their communities, and for NZ however.

    • Saarbo 34.2

      WTF is a “pay check”?

      • Colonial Rawshark 34.2.1

        It’s a fucking Americanism is what it is, like “full spectrum dominance” and “total information awareness” and all the other lovely things they’ve brought to the language.

      • cricko 34.2.2

        Ok, I meant pay ‘cheque’

        Big point scored by Saarbo,
        maybe the first ever.

        Well done Saarbo.
        Your as smart as a tack.

        Huge win.
        Bet it made your week.

        • Colonial Rawshark

          Since when did becoming a wage slave become such a point of pride???

        • gsays

          hey cricko,
          can i reccomend a couple of looks on you tube at guy standings lectures.

          he highlights (amongst other things) how tories see the monetary system as rewarding ‘good’ people and punishing’bad’ people.
          ie if you have money you are ok.

          he also points at the lack of empathy or compassion that right wing folk show.

          also the need for a ubi ( an idea supported by hard right folk such as milton friedman).

          please have a look, its ok to be a tory, honest.

    • Chooky 34.3

      phillip is a very productive member of society …it is just that he doesn’t get enough money for it…we need a UBI


    • Skinny 34.4

      Oh piss off there isn’t enough work to go around, what with slave import labour, zero hours work. Obviously Phil is making a sacrifice so others can at least say they are working to idiots like you. Thanks Phil.

      • phillip ure 34.4.1

        i hafta say i am humbled by the words of support from all..chrs..

        ..(and i wanta know how the hell can i lay into waghorn again..?

        ..when he/she has said something both intelligent and civilised..

        ..he/she has messed with my assumptions..)

  34. i am watching top gear..

    st petersburg is a very cool looking city…

  35. a heads-up for david mitchell fans (old and new..)

    ..he is on a new show on tvone @ 10 pm..

    ..called ‘was it something i said?’…

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