Open mike 26/05/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:35 am, May 26th, 2014 - 226 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

226 comments on “Open mike 26/05/2014”

  1. Paul 1

    Espiner arrives and all of a sudden Key feels ok to turn up at RNZ again after turning down interview after interview in the past.Maybe that’s because RNZ invite him on now to discuss polls that go well. Starting to feel like the cosy chats Hosking and Lush have with Key every Monday morning.
    I’ll just wait and see if they invite him on for a poor poll or a difficult topic…and if he arrives.
    Is this really what our taxes should be paid for?

    • Olwyn 1.1

      Indeed. This morning I heard Key breezily proclaim that this election would offer a choice between the centre right and far left. Naturally enough, this claim went unchallenged.

      • Chooky 1.1.1

        I cant stand the unctuousness of Espiner’s voice and his slimy attitudes to those he considers to be in authority ….I almost turn Morning Report off!.

        …why on earth did they take Simon Mercep off the job?…he was much more in the Geoff Robinson mould…fairer, more upstanding, more professional, not afraid to ask the hard questions of either side

        Morning Report has become John Key’s and NACT’s mouthpiece

        • fender 1.1.1.1

          “…why on earth did they take Simon Mercep off the job?…he was much more in the Geoff Robinson mould…fairer, more upstanding, more professional, not afraid to ask the hard questions of either side”

          +1 Chooky

          They’ve really stuffed things up, and I think Mora is better suited to the magazine style afternoon role. His one hour Panel slot seems disjointed as a result.

          • Ron 1.1.1.1.1

            Leave Simon on afternoons. Surely Mora is on his way out. he cannot survive on 1 hour per day so how long before he has gone.
            As for breakfast just ignore it and catch up with Mary on Checkpoint she is so much better than anyone else on Radio NZ

        • Saarbo 1.1.1.2

          +1 Chooky,

          That Richard Griffin has timed putting his people in perfectly. Espiner is a light weight, ideal material for national party spinners to manipulate. I cant understand what RNZ are doing, I actually quite enjoyed Mora in the arvo’s, while Mercep’s was a much more skilled interviewer than light weight Espiner (His voice changes noticeably when he interviews politicians from the Left and the Right). They should just put Suzie Ferguson with Simon Mercep, bring back Mora to the afternoons and tell Espiner to piss off.

        • Roger 1.1.1.3

          Listening to Simon Mercep on the radio is like listening to someone chairing a meeting of chartered accountants….

          Everything carefully articulated and proper…

          Clinically devoid of passion… engagement… and ultimately anything of interest.

          And now they’ve bumped Jim Mora, who can convincingly feign interest in a washing machine manual, and given poor Simon an entire afternoon.

          A Machiavellian plot by John Key to kill intelligent radio completely.

      • Bearded Git 1.1.2

        Yep Olwyn Espiner is biased-but we knew that before he got the job.

        RNZ really should be lambasted for failing Journalism 101 and not allowing a reply to Key at all times.

        Meanwhile it is “17 weeks” because that sounds closer than “4 months” and it is a FPP “20 point gap” rather than a 1.5% gap if you look at Roy Morgan and think MMP.

        The only good news is the phrase “Labour-Green block” is gaining currency. Standardistas please repeat ad infinitum.

        Labour-Green block Labour-Green block Labour-Green block Labour-Green block Labour-Green block Labour-Green block Labour-Green block Labour-Green blockLabour-Green block Labour-Green block Labour-Green block Labour-Green block Labour-Green block Labour-Green block Labour-Green block Labour-Green block

        • Tracey 1.1.2.1

          I listened to both cunliffe and key this morning. I was interested to hear after the interviews, in the next news bulletins, that Key had said an outright victory for one party was rare. He didn’t say that at all. He said the polls move a bit and it would be tight. So the editorial news department, hearing the same interview I and others heard, still managed to attribute something to Key that he didn’t actually say. I don’t know whether it is lazy or incompetent.

          • Skinny 1.1.2.1.1

            Key/Joyce and their spin merchants know that the Left will be doing their level best to get the vote out. So Cunliffe is wisely framing the ‘Left Bloc’ are pretty much on level terms, even if that isn’t quite true on the current polling with NACT having a 10 % buffer zone. This may cause National a snub at the polling booths from people who have become disillusioned. That could be for any amount of reasons like our asset sales, spying legislation, donation rorts, Collins, reduced fishing quota.

            When this group see National galloping away in the polls they feel justifiable in giving Key the bird by not voting at all.

        • Olwyn 1.1.2.2

          I agree Bearded Git. The “Labour-Green block” gives a truer picture in an MMP environment. The bulk of the left vote is split between Labour and the Greens, whereas National’s buddies poll very low, leaving them with the bulk of votes on the right. The “don’t knows” rarely get a mention, and a fair number of them will be undecided as to whether they will vote for Labour or the Greens, rather than whether they will vote left or right.

        • Gosman 1.1.2.3

          That serves National’s interests as much as it serves hard core leftists like yourself.

      • MaxFletcher 1.1.3

        Labour far-left? Riiiight

        • Tracey 1.1.3.1

          act = centre right apparently…

          • The Lone Haranguer 1.1.3.1.1

            I think they represent the right bit of centre right.

            But that said, you guys all go on about NACT like the ACT portion still has a heartbeat, and that it will still be alive and kicking after the September election. I dont think any voters take ACT seriously anymore.

            • Murray Olsen 1.1.3.1.1.1

              Personally, I use NAct to show how National puts so many ACT policies into action. That’s why ACT has pretty much disappeared. John Howard did it with Pauline Hansen,

      • Gosman 1.1.4

        It is a political line. Labour and the Greens do it when members of their party get interviewed. It isn’t challenged because most people see it for what it is and it would take too long to disect.

        • Olwyn 1.1.4.1

          It used to be usual for interviewers on RNZ to ask interviewees to defend extreme statements. In those days, Mr Key rarely made an appearance, but he seems rather more comfortable with Guyon Espiner. So comfortable that he sometimes forgets he is PM and leader of the National Party, and talks as if he himself was a political commentator, endorsing National and damning Labour from an “objective” position.

          • Gosman 1.1.4.1.1

            Let’s analyse then if he was questioned on how it would go. The interviwer would ask John Key why he thinks Labour and the Greens are hard left. Mr Key would argue they are anti business via their position on free trade and opposition to mining and want to increase the size of the State as well as intervene in the market directly via reforms such as the proposed electricity price reforms.Then there would be a discussion over whether this makes them hard left or not. Considering this is mainly a subjective viewpoint it would largely come down to Mr Key stating that in his opinion those policies are hard left.

            • framu 1.1.4.1.1.1

              well no shit sherlock

              but the point is, is that whatever the fuck key spews out of his mouth is repeated as truth NOT opinion

              If key said that labour are hard left, and then a jorno pointed out that key is likely engaging in a bit of framing to try and paint his opponent in a bad light and then discussed the fact that some of nats policies are a) borrowed from labour in the first place, or B) quite hard right and unpopular, we might have a sensible news report – but thats not what happens is it.

              • Gosman

                The fact that Key is engaged in framing an opponent should be a given to anybody with half a brain. It is no different to Labour attempting to frame National as only interested in benefitting it’s wealthy maters. Do you want journalists to state to Cunliffe everytime he brings this up that he is engaging in political framing as well because you shouldn’t just expect this to be applied to one side of the political spectrum

                • framu

                  how many times does a statement by key get turned into a headline thereby becoming the main thrust of the story?

                  thats the bit where the obvious framing by anyone gets lost

                  “but the point is, is that whatever the fuck key spews out of his mouth is repeated as truth NOT opinion”

                  and its not about my side or your side – pull your head out of your arse – its about people who call themselves journalists actually being lazy repeaters

          • The Lone Haranguer 1.1.4.1.2

            All Governments (left and right) have a life cycle and in NZ its between 3-9 years.

            Generally in the first term all the radio jockeys suck up to the new ministers (hey a parliamentary press secretary makes more than a junior reporter so dont knock it) and then eventually the combined failures overwhelm the Government and the tide goes out, the press sets on them, and the new team come in and the cycle starts again.

            There were many of us who felt that the press gave Clark an armchair ride for way too long, just like many of you feel the same about Keys armchair ride. But just as the press set upon Clarks government (nanny state anyone?), so they will eventually turn on Keys just the same.

            Winning an election is more about timing than it is about policy. (sad but true I suspect) That 800,000 potential voters decided to play on the computer games (or whatever) rather than vote suggests that thers a big disconnect between those in political parties and the average voters.

      • fisiani 1.1.5

        Why would such a claim be challenged? It’s not a claim it’s a statement of fact. Are you implying that Labour and Greens and Mana are of the Centre?

        • Olwyn 1.1.5.1

          A fact??? Calling them hard left is a judgement that is open to question – hardly a fact.

          • fisiani 1.1.5.1.1

            Are you denying they (Lab/Green/Mana) are hard left, ie have not moved away from the centre?

            • Olwyn 1.1.5.1.1.1

              I don’t think that the centre is a fixed, or even clear, position. And I think that political parties, when they are doing their jobs, try to drag the centre, by which I mean the majority, their way. But it is a quite stretch to call any of the main political parties in NZ “hard” left. If a party started promising to ban private property, seize the farms and turn them into collectives, imprison the bankers and property developers, etc, then you might have a case for calling them “hard left.”

            • KJT 1.1.5.1.1.2

              Joke. They are presently somewhat to the right of the Holyoak Government, or even Muldoon’s.

              The Greens could have worked comfortably with National, in the days when National party politicians worked for New Zealanders, instead of corporate bribes after leaving parliament.

            • phillip ure 1.1.5.1.1.3

              if you look at any international ideological spectrum..

              ..you will see that you can barely slide a cigarette-paper inbetween national and labour..

              ..they haven’t been called tweedledee and tweedledum for years….for nothing.

              ..(tho’ i concede this current asset-stripping bunch of bastards might have widened that gap a tad..)

              …and the greens are very close to labour..

              ..and mana a bit further down the track..

            • Murray Olsen 1.1.5.1.1.4

              Labour is centre right, Greens are centre-left, and Mana are moderate left, by any reasonable objective measures. Can you deny that?

        • North 1.1.5.2

          You truly are a fuckwit FizzyAnus. Back under your rock please.

    • ianmac 1.2

      MR Espiner will be standing for National in which electorate? He is after all their main spokesman and an avid supporter of Mr Key.

      • Bearded Git 1.2.1

        Yes I loved Espiners question this morning “Is Labour’s vote in danger of collapsing”. Talk about leading the witness. Meanwhile Labour’s vote is polling 10 to 15 percent higher than they got at the last election.

        • ianmac 1.2.1.1

          It makes me wonder who decided on Morning Report’s Menu. Weather. Murder. Weather.Violence. Cricket. Cricket. Cricket. A plug for the Key Government. Cricket. Sport. A chummy chat with Key. The blurb a few weeks ago was that the presenters would have greater imput for the program.
          I wonder who?

          • greywarbler 1.2.1.1.1

            And RNZ is going to find and generate more of its own news. That apparently means asking USA violence victims or NZ violence victims sympathetically how they feel, and does it make their neighbourhood feel unsafe etc etc ‘How do you feel about this. Well…’ 30 seconds on this.

            Meanwhile the world turns and big things happen to little people and vice versa, but we don’t get the chance to hear about such news because we are allocated the role of holding the hand of a sick or dying patient, that poor little figure lying diminished there is – New Zealand-Aotearoa. We are its hospice, unable to save it from the ravaging effects of small doses of poison being dripped in continuously.

            Try this analogy for Radionz present news management philosophy –
            Münchausen syndrome is a psychiatric factitious disorder wherein those affected feign disease, illness, or psychological trauma to draw attention, sympathy, or reassurance to themselves. It is also sometimes known as hospital addiction syndrome….
            Thanks Wikipedia

          • Gosman 1.2.1.1.2

            Amazing how the right has infiltrated and managed to pervert a state run broadcaster. Makes you wonder if the dangers of having one outweigh any potential benefits. You might be better suited to set up your own left leaning broadcaster.

            • Macro 1.2.1.1.2.1

              That is why the Standard is here now Gosman or are you still unaware of that fact.
              And yes it has been done before in the past.
              And maybe you might look into the appointment of Nat cronies to NZ Air and Griffen as the boss of RNZ and ponder a little more as to why the left are more than a little upset as to the current bias on Radio NZ. A media that is supposed to be UNBIASED.

              • Gosman

                Funnily many on the right think RNZ National is biased to the left. I think that is generally indicative of a balanced broadcaster myself.

                The issue though is if a State broadcaster can be so easily manipulated by the government so that it’s editorial policy favours one side of the political spectrum over another without the opposition so much as demanding a review let alone full blown equiry in to this abuse of power then is it worth having one.

                • Macro

                  “The issue though is if a State broadcaster can be so easily manipulated by the government so that it’s editorial policy favours one side of the political spectrum over another without the opposition so much as demanding a review let alone full blown equiry in to this abuse of power then is it worth having one.”

                  This has been explained by others here today. The sad fact is this corrupt gov’t has done just that. Given large amounts to Right wing radio and TV. Cut back on funding to the state broadcaster. Scrapped the charters that were supposed to ensure balanced commentary and programming. Appointed their mates to oversee the gradual move towards right wing commentary. It’s insidious and the general population who live their lives in their own little cocoons don’t see it until it is too late.

                  The propaganda machine is now well entrenched.

                  • bad12

                    Yes, i would like whoever is responsible for the ”Broadcasting portfolio” across all the Opposition parties to have a robust dig in among the Government books to see exactly what happened to the 40 million dollar loan given to the network which runs TV3 and a number of radio stations by the current ‘Wing-nut’ Government,

                    Have they perchance bothered to repay this loan???…

        • Anne 1.2.1.2

          Labour’s vote at the last election was 27.5% BG. I don’t think they’ve reached 37+% since the 2011 election.

          • Gosman 1.2.1.2.1

            I think it was 10-15% of the amount of vote Labout got which would have been 2.5 to 4.5 % increase. That t6akes them to early 30% territory which is still above where they are now admittedly.

            • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.2.1.1

              Labour vote collapsed between 2005 and 2008 elections, dropping 7 points from 41% to 34%. It then dropped another full ~7 points to 27.5% in 2011. That’s a horrific fall in just two elections.

              Labour should congratulate itself on a job well done if it can return to 34% – 35% levels this election. That in itself is still a big ask.

          • Bearded Git 1.2.1.2.2

            Sorry Anne I didn’t explain it very well. I was talking about percentages on percentages like this:

            27.5+2.75=30.25 (Labour’s vote up 10%)
            27.5+4.12=31.62 (Labour’s vote up 15%)

            Labour has been polling mostly in the 30-32% range recently, though my prediction for the election remains Nats 42-43% Lab/Gr/ManaIp 49%.

            It just gets to me when they talk about Labour’s vote collapsing (Hooton hinted about it again this morning) when the facts show the opposite.

            • Anne 1.2.1.2.2.1

              Thanks BG.

            • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.2.2.2

              Very reassuring BG but what happens when you take the baseline from Helen Clark 2005 @ 41%, which was not that long ago.

              • Bearded Git

                Yes CV but I think you would agree that the Green vote is now consistently bigger since issues such as GW and water quality have gained traction.

                It’s MMP:

                Then: 41+6=47%
                Now: 33+11+5=49% (Where 5 is ManaInet)

    • Anne 1.3

      The more professional, experienced and fair-minded they are… the less likely Key will agree to be interviewed by them. Our best and brightest journalists rarely get to confront Key in formal interview situations. He’s been advised to steer clear of them because they are the people most likely to expose him for being a lying, cheating wheeler-dealer, who thinks nothing of hood-winking and betraying the very people he is supposed to be supporting – the NZ voters.

    • Will@Welly 1.4

      Don’t blame the messengers – Guyon Espiner or Susie Ferguson. Look further up the ‘food chain’, Paul Thompson and the real ‘king maker’ Richard Griffin.
      Yes both presenters maybe right-wing, but they can only get away with what they are saying with the say-so of those above.
      Sadly, National Radio is turning into a mouth piece for an arse of a Government.

      • Macro 1.4.1

        QFT

      • Colonial Viper 1.4.2

        You should’ve heard the lovely Shane Jones soft interview on National Radio last night. Gosh what an angel at heart, a real diamond in the rough.

      • Gosman 1.4.3

        Where’s the opposition on this gross abuse of State broiadcasting resources then? Why have I yet to hear from any opposition politican demanding an equiry or at least banging on about it how our democratic freedoms are being abused?

        • framu 1.4.3.1

          how many times are you going to repeat those lines today timewaster?

          are you on a “per use” royalty or something?

  2. (this vid..4 mins..is about how the canadian federal govt. has totally taken over the production/supply of the natural pain-killer..medical-marijuana..

    ..and the benefits to all from this move..)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/business/international/when-cannabis-goes-corporate.html?ref=business&_r=0

  3. Sanctuary 3

    Two great articles on why the left can’t ignore the growing disenchantment of the working class precariat as expressed via populist right wing parties like UKIP and the collaboration between the corporate media and the mainstream political establishment to do just that.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/23/ukip-success-local-elections-two-party-system-crisis

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/07/media-failure-ukip-democracy-national-conversation?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      Yep. And Chris Hedges makes one more observation – if the political parties on the Economic Left and the Social Liberal Left do not listen to and act on the anger and concerns of the mainstream, not only will those Left parties be abandoned in favour of ones which do listen and respond (eg Tea Party or UKIP), but at the same time the values espoused by the Economic Left and the Social Liberal Left will be resoundingly rejected.

      And that’s a bad road to go down.

  4. exitlane 4

    why has the MSM in NZ ignored the story that Afghanistan may be the Nation which has been subject to the mass collection of the content of all mobile calls by the NSA and possibly other Five Eyes partners such as GCSB?

    Greenwald has released documents showing the Bahamas is the other

    The HuffPost has covered it in the USA but mostly a media black out there too

    http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/archive/segment/537fb2e4fe34443f720002e1

    http://wikileaks.org/WikiLeaks-statement-on-the-mass.html

    Since when has the possibility that a whole Nation’s citizens have had the content of the calls recorded – not news?

  5. Tracey 5

    John key signalling a referendum on the rma. He and acr want to remove the environment as number one priority to economy. He cant put it through parliament because the MP and chamelon peter dunne want things as they are…

    Chance for peter dunne to gett a cuppa in ohariu if he changes his mind?

  6. fambo 6

    I heard Shane Jones saying on National Radio this morning that he put Labour’s needs before that of Maori. For someone who enjoyed nine years of good earnings and a great pension thanks to Labour, and someone who is now out of Parliament, he sure knows how to keep on putting the boot into his own party.

    • JK 6.1

      Yeah, he really was in the wrong Party, Fambo. I’m not sure he’s totally woken up to that yet, but it wasn’t surprising that in the gallery listening to his final speech in Parliament there was Roger Douglas and Richard Prebble. Jones should have been an ACT boy !

    • Tracey 6.2

      did you read his alleged chat with Hone over the weekend?

    • infused 6.3

      Well maybe Labour needs it? Sounds like a lot of delusional people in there.

    • greywarbler 6.4

      I heard Shane I think it was Sunday. He sounded so humble and really won my heart. He can really present himself as a likeable guy with great ability, and appeal to the general population. Unfortunately that is one persona only, and there is the other where he knows all, doesn’t listen and won’t follow a game plan.

      And he really wanted to be PM and thought he could do it wll. No doubt he could, if he could just keep his head together. But he just can’t keep his two identities from sparring. And who would know which one was winning each morning as he started work.

      • Will@Welly 6.4.1

        Shane, reading ‘the sermon on the mount’ via video conferencing, one eye on one screen, the other on another, watching a much more ‘earthy’ happening! Ah, the Jones boy, just too easily distracted.

  7. felix 7

    Did we ever get a full record of the “teapot tapes”?

    Trying to remember what was said about the “other fellow” they described as “very strange” and we assumed they were talking about Brash…

    • karol 7.2

      Jackal here.

      Banks: I think that after the election with Catherine…
      Key: Yeah, she’s good.
      Banks: Don Nicolson, and Steve Whittington, the four of us, we can completely restructure and rebuild this party.
      Key: That’s right. And she’s good actually. She’s…I reckon she’ll have quite a bit of female appeal.
      Banks: Yeah.
      Key: Yeah, that’s where you’ll…
      Banks: He’s a strange fellow, the other fellow isn’t he?
      Key: Mmmm! Oh, yeah! Yeah, no, no, we’ve been down that road! That is why when they rang me in the UK I never ever thought of this, you know, 15 percent we’d have a snap election…
      [quiet mumbling]
      Banks: I didn’t know. I didn’t know.

      And then there’s this:

      Banks: I think the Labour Party have um have given up on Epsom.
      Key: Oh, yeah.
      Banks: He’s a horrible fellow, that candidate. Nasty, nasty.
      Key: He is, ooh, nasty. They’re a nasty party in a lot of ways.
      Banks: Yeah, well, you know they’ve been putting stuff in letterboxes about me. Shocking stuff.
      Key: Yes, that’s nasty. That’s what they do, they play the person the whole time. We never do that stuff.
      Banks: And John, I think the important thing is the [] politics, the policies, [] I’ve learned that the long term experience is never any value with them…

      Key and his mate Slater – what do they say now?

      • Tracey 7.2.1

        omg, so key actually believes the shit he says????

        • infused 7.2.1.1

          You mean the same shit that still goes on to this day from the Labour party? Yes, I’m pretty sure he does.

          • Tracey 7.2.1.1.1

            are you using your phone in class?

            • infused 7.2.1.1.1.1

              You’re trying to call me out when you post constantly throughout the day. Maybe you should get a job.

              • Tracey

                i was calling you out for being puerile

              • bad12

                🙄 maybe Infused you should just shut the fucking thing, your yapper that is, your defecation this morning is simply a diversion from the topic being discussed without even adding an ounce of proof or context in your attempted slur of Labour,

                More ‘wing-nut’ rubbish ruining the conversation…

      • Anne 7.2.2

        …they’ve been putting stuff in letterboxes about me. Shocking stuff.

        It turned out it was some idiot who thought he was being clever and, from memory, he apologised for his action. The Labour Party had nothing to do with it.

        • Tracey 7.2.2.1

          I found the stuff banks put in my letterbox about himself quite shocking.

        • Draco T Bastard 7.2.2.2

          I thought he was complaining about the notices that had been put up that quoted him in his full bigoted glory.

          • Tracey 7.2.2.2.1

            lunchtime? Warning. The linked thread includes lots of posts from pg.

        • Blue 7.2.2.3

          Of course not Anne, Labour never do their own dirty work. Pure as the driven snow eh? For example they would never send their President overseas to gather dirt on the opposition, having run out of ideas, would they? “People in glass houses….”.

          • framu 7.2.2.3.1

            … shouldnt throw stones

            ahem..

            throat slitting
            jackets
            suasages
            zip it
            conspiracy theorists
            david farrar
            whale oil

            we can go on

          • Anne 7.2.2.3.2

            You can scream yourself blue Blue, but Labour knew nothing about it. End of story.

            Of course a double dealing traitorous PM who would sell the shirt off his grandmother’s back if he thought he could get away with it… that’s good. Just what the doctor ordered.
            Now get back to your natural home – sleaze-bag Slater’s blog.

  8. Tracey 8

    Green party is continuing shining the light onto the Charter Schools experiment

    ““The existing five charter schools are already set to cost $9 million more than was budgeted last year and the Government is keeping secret how much it is planning to spent on the entire next round of new schools.

    “The total amount being spent on the current round of charters is now $26 million over their first four years ”

    And many on the right tell us constantly that the answer to education and other problems is not to just “throw money at it”, and yet there seems to be alot of money thrown at these schools in return for their success…

    also see 2013 MIn of Ed paper to cabinet

    http://www.minedu.govt.nz/~/media/MinEdu/Files/TheMinistry/PartnershipSchools/SecondApplication/EdReportAnnualApplicationRounds.pdf

  9. bad12 9

    Cinnamon, a spice we do not include enough in our diet???, during periods of human history the spice Cinnnamon was valued more than Gold,

    In a conversation the other day discussing diets and high blood sugar levels with a neighbor where the topic was the fruit/vege diet brings with it an added dose of sugar even from the humble potato my neighbor suggested one means of cutting sugar intake was to replace Sugar in the cup of tea with Cinnamon,

    Sounds a bit of a horror doesn’t it, and we ended the conversation joking about how far i could throw a large mug of Cinnamon/tea vis a vis the distance to His kitchen window,

    This morning tho while i warmed up the fast failing laptop i thought OK lets try a spoon of Cinnamon in the first cuppa of the day, while i Googled ”the health benefits of Cinnamon” and Bingo both ways, i put way too much Cinnamon in that first cup of tea which resulted in the last slurp being a bit dire, but, taste OK???, you bet, and the Google???, try this,

    http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=68

    The Google is: Ground Cinnamon-the worlds healthiest foods.

    This tastes Nice!!!, in a big mug, flat teaspoon of everyday ground coffee,(i’m a cheapskate so its budget brand), quarter teaspoon of everyday Cinnamon, quarter teaspoon raw sugar, low fat milk to taste, boiling water,

    Read the link,(or if as usual my link is stink), Google up the health benefits of Cinnamon while you drink it….

    • greywarbler 9.1

      What’s that chai tea bad 12? It has spices in it don’t know if includes cinnamon. How does that show up healthwise?

      • bad12 9.1.1

        Google is your friend, you tell me…

        • greywarbler 9.1.1.1

          Why don’t you. I thought you were interested.

          • bad12 9.1.1.1.1

            Why don’t i greywarbler, that might have something to do with the fact that i aint in any way your fucking serf here to do as you bid,

            i am interested in ‘health issues’ in general as we face an increasingly aging population with government’s in the age of tax cutting having to increasingly find ”novel” means to deny people access to all but the most basic of health care,

            What might keep us from actually needing to access that health care then becomes of more interest to me which is why after having read for 2 hours about the herb Cinnamon this morning i have spent time highlighting it’s many benefits,(with the link supplied also linking to that which supports the propositions expounded),

            As a side issue which i was planning on linking to tomorrow i also had reason to look at Coffee and that products health benefits or lack of them,

            The result of that ‘look’ and the health benefits of Coffee/Cinnamon and reducing Sugar content in the daily coffee by the amount of Cinnamon included in the cup of coffee i will probably ‘link’ to tomorrow…

            • greywarbler 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Cheer up bad 12 go and be bad tempered to someone else.

              • bad12

                i would tell you at this point greywarbler to fuck off, but, apparently its agin the rules so i won’t,

                You FAIL miserably in your remote diagnosis of my mood, i’ve been having a good day which in between bouts of commenting has also included finishing the last square meter of the kitchens yearly ‘wash-down’,

                In the vein of numerous incremental gains it takes me a full week to wash the whole kitchen in the Mansion, one of the oldest State Houses still doing exactly what it was built to do after 70 odd years despite the ravages of Wellington’s weather and the obscenities directed in the same direction by various Tory Governments,

                Its the least i can do for the ”Stately” old dear that i am the temporary custodian of which has in my opinion ‘bettered’ my life in ways too complex to list as a comment,

                Thinking of which, i must have a word with the case manager with a view to compiling a history of all those down through the decades that this particular piece of ‘State intervention’ has bettered with her shelter…

                • greywarbler

                  No thanks for the interchange bad 12 I won’t bother to attempt any comment with you again, you are a disappointment.

                  • bad12

                    Now that greywarbler is Laugh Out Loud material, how many times have you now taken to your prissy little (expletive deleted) ”i am not talking with you ever again” whine during our exchanges here,

                    Grow up as a comment is probably wasted upon you, but, grow up you come across as either a 4 year old or a severely retarded adult…

    • Tracey 9.2

      Cinnamon on toast with butter, go on, you won’t regret it

      • bad12 9.2.1

        Lolz Tracey, no can do, Butter along with Cheese are no longer part of the diet for me, i had toasted sandwiches for dinner last night,

        The toast is cooked in the toaster and a good lashing of Guacamole is added to both slices, the filling: finely diced onion, sliced tomato, sliced mushroom fried in soy oil, and an egg fired the same,

        That’s my crash diet dinner two days a week for dinner, two toasted sandwiches as above along with a piece of fruit,(the other five days of the week i eat a full dinner usually containing fish and four or five veg along with breakfast of a couple of pieces of toast and Guacamole, lunch on non-diet days is usually a small tin of sardines drained of the soy oil or tomato sauce they are packed in with the addition 3 tablespoons of (naughty)Coconut cream and a large dash of thick peanut sauce (yum),and a piece of fruit,

        Works a treat too, my Fat/Blood count is el perfecto from the last blood test, and i have lost around 20 kilos since Christmas with the current diet as above taking off a kilo a week(with the ability to stop the weight loss at will),

        My next blood test is in mid-July and i am now planning, after having read the info about Cinnamon to include that spice in my Tea/Coffee to see if that can get my slightly high blood sugar levels onto the correct numbers,(if what i read this morning is in any way correct then that should be a ‘given’)…

    • karol 9.3

      Very good with my home mixed breakfast – nuts, seeds, etc. and some plain unsweetened yogurt. I have it daily.

      • bad12 9.3.1

        Lolz Karol, my previous alcoholism, extremely bad diet and propensity to indulge in acts with other males of the species which involved the removal of significant pieces of each other’s DNA in my youth have rendered me nearly edentate,

        Nuts and seeds round here have to be beaten into a flour to enable eating,(usually in my sauces)…

        • Will@Welly 9.3.1.1

          Bad – try sprinkling cinnamon over sliced/mashed banana in toasted sandwiches. For a little bit more flavor, a light spreading of your favourite diabetic jam first, then putting the banana and cinnamon on top. Cheers.

          • bad12 9.3.1.1.1

            Yum Willy&Welly, a good one from the look into Cinnamon this morning was ”cut a banana in half down its length, sprinkle the exposed ‘meat’ with Cinnamon, wrap in tinfoil and bake in the oven 150–180C for 30 minutes”, skin and all the recipe says,

            Diabetic jam???, where do you find this, jams of any sort along with butter, margarine, and cheese have since Christmas been banished from the diet…

            • Will@Welly 9.3.1.1.1.1

              Most supermarkets have them – expensive – sorry. There are strawberry, apricot and I think one other flavor. Around $4.50 – $5.00 a jar. Foodstuffs stock them. You have to look, Countdown should have them, I’m pretty sure the brand name is ‘Diabetics’.
              Another brand, found on the net, based in Blenheim is Yok’n’Al. They have a list of stores around New Zealand that stock their products.

            • James Thrace 9.3.1.1.1.2

              bad12 – coconut sugar is a recommended substitute. With a much lower GI, it’s a worthwhile sugar replacement.

              Otherwise try growing some stevia and using the leaves as a sweetener – our conditions are perfect for growing it from Christchurch upwards.

              • bad12

                James Thrace, at the risk of sounding completely dumb, what’s GI,???,

                Sugar tho is still sugar, while some sugars, both Glucose and Fructose are necessary for us to function properly it is more the correct intake, ie: amount, that is the question,AND, the bodies ability to produce and process insulin correctly is the BIG question on the other side of Sugar intake, ie: on both sides of that question a medical diagnosis of type 2 Diabetes can be arrived at,

                Stevia, now there’s something new, i will write that one down for a ‘look’, what does it taste like???…

                • Tracey

                  you can get stevia in many forms. I use it as a sugat substite in baking. It has a more bitter taste than sigar. But if a recipe called for four tblspns of sugar i will do 3 stevia, 1 sugar. No one notices.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Only glucose is necessary for the body. Fructose is often metabolically unhelpful and is not needed.

                  Table sugar contains one part glucose and one part fructose.

                  • bad12

                    That’s a bold assertion CV, to believe that ALL fructose is bad would require a person to cease to eat most fruits and most vegetables,

                    Here’s the debate from the pro-Fructose side:
                    http://www.foodnavigator.com/…/sugar-debate-farctose-may-be-healthy-after-all

                    And the same from the anti-Fructose side:
                    http://www.health.harvard.edu/…/is-fructose-bad-for-you-201104262425

                    Heres a list of the % of fructose in fruit/veg/nuts/grains/etc
                    http://www.familywellness.com/fructose-in-fruit-veggies-nuts-seeds-legumes-grains/

                    Limiting yourself to foods low in fructose isn’t quite a sentence of Mung Beans and Lentils but severely limit the diet it would,

                    There is a Question??? of how the body deals with different Fructose infused foods in different ways, ie: the Fructose in an Apple as opposed to the Fructose in a can of Coke,

                    Once i have the diet that delivers me the perfect numbers via more than 2 blood tests i will then be ready to move on to the Liver, its ability to store sugars as fats(bad), and a natural means of removing such fats if there is one,

                    My rule of thumb at the moment is to try and avoid ALL foods that have had sugars of ANY sort added to them as a manufacturing process,

                    As in the good fats/bad fats debate i believe that Fructose has a use in our diet in the delivery of some vitamins and minerals and it is not a case of ALL fructose is bad, more a case of finding the correct amount of Fructose in the diet that the bodies various functions can process…

                • James Thrace

                  Hi bad12

                  GI is Glycaemic Index which basically states the lower the GI, the better the food. The lower the GI, the more of that food you should eat.

                  High GI foods include white bread, sugar (98 GI!) and Watermelon, bananas, potatos (in fact, quite a lot of fruit and vegetables tend to have higher GIs)

                  Lower GI – Rice, Quinoa, kumara

                  Glycaemic Index relates to the absorption of sugar into the bloodstream over time. The faster it’s absorbed, the higher the GI. Fruit tends to rate higher due to the naturally occurring fructose which is better for the body to process than straight glucose.
                  Glucose is typically unhelpfully labelled as such, when really it should relate to the metabolic conversion of fructose into a ready energy source for the brain which is the largest organ requiring glucose.

                  From here

                  “On the GI index, the slower a carbohydrate containing food is turned to sugar the better and the lower the GI score will be. Here’s a very general scale…

                  • A GI of 70 or more is considered high
                  • A GI of 56 to 69 is considered medium
                  • A GI of 55 or less is considered low

                  The theory behind the Glycemic Index is simply to minimize insulin-related problems by identifying and avoiding foods that spike blood sugar levels. This sounds simple and reasonable enough. But things aren’t always as simple as they seem.”

                  Hope that helps.

          • Tracey 9.3.1.1.2

            yeeeeeees @ banana and cinnamon

            • North 9.3.1.1.2.1

              Very interested in your food thing Bad. And what comes over as a lovely passion. Congratulations from a bit of a foodie on this end though still not onto the ‘health’ number, yet. Still trying to perfect curried sausages from those el-cheapo bags of 20 pre-cooked texture pods. Any ideas ?

              As my contribution to the pool of knowledge here’s a tip you mightn’t know. Thickening agent. Forget cornflour. Potato starch cheap as from chinese grocery shops. Advantage – on reheating it thickens up again beautifully whereas once allowed to go cold cornflour unattractively watery.

              Tell me you care and I’ll give you my microwave bread and butter (and anything leftover not savoury) pudding recipe. It’s a winner ! Sorry…..didn’t read your sugar thing above.

    • Rosie 9.4

      bad, cinnamon is awesome. I went through a cinnamon buzz a few years back, it’s a fabulous spice. Favourite use however was on the “sometimes” food list. Make an apple or any fruit crumble using heaps of cinnamon in the crumble. (You could probably substitute the butter for almond oil in the crumble too)

      I’ve known several Indian people who really adore it, it’s used in Ayurvedic medicine, as well as cooking.

      Be aware that cheap brands can sometimes be cut with cassia to reduce the cost.. A good thing to do is to visit a Indian grocery store and buy cinnamon quills. They are pricier than powdered but the quills in the Indian stores are cheaper than the one at the supermarket.

      Grind the quills in a heavy duty pestle and mortar. If one isn’t handy, I wonder whether popping the quills in a thick plastic bag and smashing them with something heavy might work? Whole spices retain their flavour and aroma and any medicinal properties better than when they are ground. You get these benefits if you grind them as you need them.

      • bad12 9.4.1

        Rosie, i have used Cinnamon sparingly in the past and haven’t been all that enamored in the taste, however, after the discussion i had with a neighbor about its inclusion in the morning cup of tea i decided this morning to at least try it,(without Sugar), and it removes the bitterness from un-sugared tea quite neatly,

        In a large mug of coffee i am using a small quarter spoon of Cinnamon with a small quarter spoon of raw sugar along with milk, works well as far as taste goes, AND, from what i read this morning the Cinnamon will directly boost the bodies ability to process the Sugar without having it stored as fat or binding at the DNA level and making a mess of the basics,

        Lolz, hell if was up to me i would still be piling two full teaspoons of Sugar into the mug but as i am enjoying being a ”toothless old fart” i am looking at the means of extending the piece of string that is what i see as the extent of my miserable existence upon the planet as long as possible,

        Actually if i had of realized ‘diet’ was so interesting,(to me anyway), i would have got into it years ago…

        • Rosie 9.4.1.1

          GI = Glycemic Index. (as per your querie to James Thrace).Those wanting to keep an eye on their blood sugar levels, sometimes to look to foods that have a lower GI level, meaning the sugars within the foods are released more slowly into the blood stream. Sounds like what you’ve been doing for some time anyway with your changes you’ve made

          Yeah, I’ve read that cinnamon helps boost and “warm” the metabolism thus enhancing weight loss efforts (er, note to self there…..)among other things which I forget, so maybe I should actually read your link.

          And a miserable existence? Really? Don’t tell me you don’t chuckle away to yourself when you get the better of one of TS’s regular RW nut bars………………? Some joy perhaps? 🙂

          • bad12 9.4.1.1.1

            Lolz Rosie thanks for the heads up on the GI question, yep, am certainly ”on the case” of the Triglyceride equation,

            This is my Hba1C result from January, 68, complete about face turning the diet on its head while ditching both the Statins and the Metaformin, April?, 43, ”this result indicates excellent control”,(Lolz what the Doc didn’t get told was i had ditched the heart and diabetes meds well befor that blood test),

            Now the ‘quest’ is to find a steady state with a Hba1C of 40 in subsequent tests with a diet that i can live with long term,

            Ah my miserable existence, self depreciation is an art i am expert at, ”my miserable existence” is a very mild form of it, Lolz, i would suggest that the average person being privvy to some of the conversations concerning ”self” around here would belie,ve that at the least they had stumbled upon a convention of manic depressives,

            Far from it, the ability to expose the worst aspects of ones ”self” to the laughter of other’s not only grows the ability to be immune to the intentional denigration of other’s, it also sharpens the ability to dish it out if necessary…

            • Rosie 9.4.1.1.1.1

              Re your last two paragraphs, maybe, or maybe not, I am relating. A workmate (in the days when I had workmates) once said to me “You sometimes talk yourself down, is that a defensive mechanism to protect yourself from criticism?” I replied “I get in there before any one else can and I’ll always do it better than anyone else”.

              Luckily that person got the humour (coming from the Samoan humour perspective, sometimes more human than the Palagi) of it but I did see that aspects of the way I was going about was self deprecation was a bit unhealthy and now I only do it in a way that doesn’t freak others out, and gives me a bit of break too. Just speaking for myself of course.

              Keep up the good work, with the health and with the RWNJ’s. It’s sharp work and makes me smile.

              • bad12

                Yeah of course Rosie, the bouts of extreme self depreciation around here are definitely the province of firm friends and include us poking the sharp stick at our own (various) ethnicity’s,

                Someone not a friend would be inviting a DNA removal contest should they be so presumptive as to engage in personal denigration of the kind practiced among friends…

  10. Tracey 10

    The Coal Coalition network has put out a report. While many will disagree without reading and some will disagree having read it, the onus is now on them to come up with different data.

    http://coalactionnetworkaotearoa.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/jobs_after_coal_may2104_lowres.pdf

    A couple of interesting observations/findings include

    “New Zealand’s coal mining communities generally have fewer full time jobs and lower per capita income than their surrounding region or district…”

    ‘“Our research shows there are only 1259 jobs in coal mining in New Zealand.”

    Meanwhile in Taranaki 5 drilling rigs, operating 24 hours per day have been granted resource consent, strange given Mr jkey wants a referendum cos the RMA isn’t working for “the economy”. The drilling will be within 600 metres of a school, so the drilling company has stated the school won’t be affected… apart fromt he dust and the noise and the 56 trucks per day…. The neighbours aint thrilled either with 24 hour drilling and rigs “lit up like christmas trees”.

    Still to NACT this is just more bags of skin getting in the way of business…

    Compare to the reaction of the good citizens of Mt Eden, Epsom, St Heliers, Tamaki, Kohi and Remuera when the Auckland unitary plan suggested apartments up to 5 levels high? They said, unanimously, “sure, if it helps the economy and the bags of skin that cant find housing…” They didn’t flood the media with their rage at their house prices dropping and their peace and quiet being spoiled, they didn’t mass letter write objecting to the unitary polan. Oh wait…

  11. aerobubble 11

    Putin concerned at Prince’s thought crime. Concerned
    that the Prince compared his Crimea annexation, in semi-private
    discussion with a Holocaust survivor, to Hitler’s invasion of
    the Sudaten Land. Hilarious. Putin on hearing the Princes
    remarks, thinks to himself, what would Hitler say, and then
    says it.

    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      Comparing Putin with Hitler was plain silly in so many ways. Putin, diplomatic as ever, said on a TV interview that he didn’t think it was the kind of comment that a monarch should be making.

      And the reality is, that the fascists are the ones now ruling in Kiev, and by the way, the western powers are just fine with that.

      • Tracey 11.1.1

        do you know if the un or nato offerred to send in peacekeepers to oversea the election?

        • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1

          I have a feeling that the UN or similar NGO may have observers on the ground; a NATO presence at polling stations would not be seen as a neutral presence however.

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      That’s a ridiculous piece of nonsense non-analysis, almost from start to finish. Basically the writer is commenting on a fictional interpretation of events, forcing on an ideological narrative and in fact appears more concerned with how things are labelled in the mass media than with any reality around the case, the perp or the victims.

      The way the writer tries to categorise this event as “extremism” is also bullshit. School killings are a weekly event in the USA and in fact has now become the norm to the extent that shootings where only one or two students are killed are barely reported any more.

      Bad writing, from a breathtakingly angry and prejudiced person, who doesn’t even appear to respect key facts around the case.

      • Tracey 12.1.1

        is the writer a feminist per chance?

        • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1

          Don’t know. But bad, prejudiced writing is bad prejudiced writing. The facts are 7 people dead including the shooter.

          5 male deaths 2 female deaths. And he killed his room mates first. They were all male.

          • Tracey 12.1.1.1.1

            did you read the article?

          • miravox 12.1.1.1.2

            Collateral damage, CV.

            Misogyny can kill men too – Time to take it seriously.

            • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.2.1

              I bet you didn’t read about the extreme difficulty this individual had getting along with everybody male and female, nor the psychological/behavioural diagnosis that he had been extensively treated for.

            • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.2.2

              Or that he had brought criminal charges against his (male) flatmates earlier in the year before killing them more recently.

              And I love how you refer to the male victims as a sort of second class “collateral damage” and how the author in a similar vein refers to the male victims as “bystander” victims.

              5 out of the 7 deaths were male. That doesn’t fit the narrative you want to frame but there it is.

              • Tracey

                so if an islamic extremist suicide bomber kills more muslims than other denominations its not religious extremism cv?

                • Colonial Viper

                  If only 2 out of the 7 people killed by the hypothetical suicide bomb were Catholic, and 5 were Muslim and other religions, I would say that anyone calling it anti-Catholic extremism was ignoring most of the facts.

                  The campus killer had a lot of hate and anger. He also suffered from a longstanding psychological/mental health condition and had major trouble relating to both males and females.

              • Miravox

                I don’t consider the men second class damage, simply not the main targets and no more or less important than the main targets of a murderous rage.

                And yes, I had read about his other problems.

          • Tracey 12.1.1.1.3

            yea you do know. if you read the article.

            • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.3.1

              I paid attention to her analysis, not the identity politics labelling. Then I did my own background research and found out a whole lot of important facts about the case which had not been included in her analysis. But again, they didn’t fit the narrative of her piece so they were no doubt just put aside as “bystander” facts.

    • joe90 12.2

      We Hunted The Mammoth for an insight into the hate driving mens rights nut jobs.

      (triggers)

      http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/

  12. Marius 13

    Sean Plunket has Radio Live cornered from 9 to 12. This morning his show is about what kind of tattoo he should get and screaming down and ranting at anyone that dares to even go near rubbishing anything pro National.

    Plunket to caller expressing an opinion contrary to his own: ‘well we’ll just let the callers decided that shall we’.
    Caller: ‘what am I?’.

    He really is better suited to Game of Thrones competitions.

    How about a nice tattoo of an egg and cheese burger on your chest, Sean.

    • Gosman 13.1

      Serious question here. Why don’t a bunch of lefties get together and start your own radio station? You can start small and build up slowly. Begin with community based radio and then maybe purchase your own freqency. There will even be potential corporate sponsorship available from left leaning businesses like Les Mills. I suspect it is much easier to bemoan the perceived right wing bias in the media than it is to do anything practical to challenge it though.

      • Colonial Viper 13.1.1

        And actually that is a good idea Gosman; I think karol and others were discussing the possibility last year. From what I understand something could be done for $25K initial capital plus lots of volunteer effort…

      • karol 13.1.2

        We had some good community TV going – Triangle, Stratos, etc. That was building up well, and included some very good left wing views, and other views. What happened to that?

        • Colonial Viper 13.1.2.1

          The Left didn’t build infrastructure and organisation that was resilient to a change in government is what happened.

          And its not like having a Tory government come in down the track is an unplannable event.

          • bad12 13.1.2.1.1

            Yep CV, nail hammer head is in your comment, here’s what’s not included in a leftist radio/tv network plan,

            The ongoing funding, the money, given the electoral cycles its easy for the next round of ‘Wing-nut’ Government to simply strangle the money supply OR as they have done to RadioNZ National geld it by changing the management,

            A possible solution, a lump sum investment from a Government of the left into a non-Government Trust sufficiently robust so as to make from investment enough monies to enable the funding of at least a nation-wide radio broadcaster tasked with providing a contrary view to that of the mainstream media,

            The problem with such media previously, in my opinion ”way to Dry” for most other than us more immersed in the daily political discourse,

            Looking at lighter radio stations success would suggest that a shorter political message need be developed for such a network interspersed with aspects of more ”popular” radio content…

            • Colonial Viper 13.1.2.1.1.1

              Now you’re talking…robust, sustainable, community owned assets and funding is where this needs to go.

              I call it Tory-Proofing. And the Left are not good at it.

              Example – the previous Labour Government thought that Channel 7 would carry on the public broadcasting tradition on TV while also cleverly keeping TVNZ fully commercial. Of course, all National had to do was turn off the spigot one year and Channel 7 was dead and buried, leaving us with the pro-profit corporate structure for TVNZ that Labour did nothing about.

              Oh yeah apart from the TVNZ Charter – another totally non-Tory proof measure which was gotten rid of in 3 seconds with a snap of National’s fingers.

              • bad12

                Yep CV, by-pass the annual need for a budget from Government by an initial lump sum into an ”investment trust” of such robustness to deliver the monies needed every year to run the tv/radio station while not eating into the initial capital investment,

                Gift the same trust enough bandwidth on the relevant radio/tv spectrum and viola we have a sustainable ”model”,

                We could all then have a real god ”conversation” surrounding ”content”…

            • Gosman 13.1.2.1.1.2

              That’s your problem right there. You want government to provide the funding for your little project. Any funding from government will come with a certain amount of strings attached. That means a future government will be able to cut funding and/or interfere with the editorial position of the organisation if they don’t like it’s political bent. The answer to this is quite simple. Use your own funding.

              • bad12

                FAIL Gosman, ‘Wing-nuts like you do not ”own” all of Government funding and the ”model” i propose requires no ongoing funding from Government,

                The ”investment trust” model ensures that there need be no ongoing funding from a ”wing-nut” Government to cut off…

                • Gosman

                  The fund is still owned by the State at some level. The people appointed to manage the fund will be government appointees and therefore subject to government influence. There is also nothing stopping a future government simply abolishing the fund and bringing the organisation back under direct control of the government.

                  • framu

                    “therefore subject to government influence”

                    if youve got evidence of this maybe you should contact the police – its a very serious accusation

                  • vto

                    you talk of water theft in Canterbury, asshole in so many ways

                  • North

                    Get away with your corrupt, meddle, interfere, threaten, bully, Tory ways Gooseman.

      • Will@Welly 13.1.3

        The ZB network was owned by the people of New Zealand until it was sold off. Everytime something in the public realm looks like being a success, National, or pseudo Act politicians come along and flog it off.
        So Gosman, stop showing your complete ignorance.

        • Colonial Viper 13.1.3.1

          So design it so that it can’t be sold off. Or that there are massive electoral costs to selling it off.

        • Gosman 13.1.3.2

          Own it yourselves and then you won’t have the risk that some government will come along and sell it off.

          • Will@Welly 13.1.3.2.1

            Yes but because it was taxpayer owned – i.e. you and me, the mum’s and dad’s – we were under the belief that we did own it. And we were never consulted on the selling of many of these agencies.
            There never was any mandate!

            • Gosman 13.1.3.2.1.1

              We only own it in the sense that the government of the day has overall control and we as citizens have a say in the government of the day. This means how that control is exercised is dependent on what the government wants. I support a government which divests itself of most of it’s commercial activities. This would potentially include selling assets in public broadcasters. The question then becomes why does your view of keeping the assets trump my view that they should be disposed of if the government of the day is democratically elected with support from people like me.

              • Will@Welly

                A lot of these enterprises, assets were built up using the taxes of hard working kiwis, using the initiatives of those employed by the various agencies. Then when a lot of these businesses are returning a profit, successive rightwing governments in the past few years have sold them off. Invariably the price gained does not cover the costs associated with the outlay, so the taxpayer losses big-time. What sort of an ass does that? Someone looking for a ‘pay-day’ after politics? And what is so wrong with having a proper referendum on something so vital as asset sales? Did you work on the hydro dams, or build the transmission lines, or build any of the other infrastructure? Or do you sit in an office, bleating about how great John Key is? Is that the best you’ve got?

                • Gosman

                  Was their a referendum when the BNZ was nationalised in the 1940’s, or when KiwiRail was renationalised ,or when the majority of shares in Air NZ was bought by the state? Why only have a referendum when assets are sold and not when they are bought by the State>

                  • Will@Welly

                    BNZ -wartime expediency. Kiwirail/Air NZ – both on the verge of collapse, run down. Originally both set up by taxpayers funds, set up in the National interests.

                    • Gosman

                      Wartime expediency??? Pretty flimsy excuse considering it was actioned in 1945 at the very end of the Second World war.

                      Regardless of the supposed urgency behind renationalising Air NZ or KiwiRail I don’t remember being consulted about it before it happened which is what you expect if the assets are sold.

                      Even taking that in to account I also don’t remember being asked whether the State should set up a State run bank called Kiwibank either.

                    • KJT

                      We did have a referendum on selling State assets.

                      I seem to remember an overwhelming majority against.

                      There is an appropriate word for those who sell our property, when the majority of the owners do not want them to…………….

                      Receivers of stolen property are liable to have it returned to the owners without compensation.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Gosh who here was consulted on paying out SCF bondholders a billion dollars in tax payers funds?

                      Not me.

                    • Gosman

                      Not unless you want your economy to tank.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Wartime expediency??? Pretty flimsy excuse considering it was actioned in 1945 at the very end of the Second World war.

                      I guess its nice in retrospect to be able to tell exactly when the war would end, right? Making your criticism pretty flimsy in itself.

                    • Gosman

                      Pretty sure in 1945 it was clear that the war was coming to an end. Both Germany and Japan were well and truly on their last legs militarily.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Not unless you want your economy to tank.

                      Ahhh more capitalist threats, the usual. Still, investors were informed at the time that there was a political risk so it’s not like they didn’t price that into their investment decision.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Pretty sure in 1945 it was clear that the war was coming to an end. Both Germany and Japan were well and truly on their last legs militarily.

                      Using that benefit of hindsight again? Very handy tool for policy makers. No one knew at that stage that the USA had nuclear weapons for starters, nor a thousand other facts that you can now find on wikipedia or the History Channel.

                    • minarch

                      planned for execution in oct 1945

                      VJ day is August 14/15

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

                      The war ending in 45 definitely wasnt a foregone conclusion

                  • bad12

                    Referendum Gosman are provoked by a suitably robust petition to the sitting Government, if ‘Wing-nuts’ wanted a referendum on re-nationalization of a particular asset they should have got off of their lazy little A’s and petitioned the Government of the day to hold one…

                    • Gosman

                      You agree then that you don’t need a referendum if you sell state assets. Some people just like to have them. Good oh.

                    • framu

                      no gossamer – your putting words into peoples mouths

                    • bad12

                      What Gosman does is also known as Masturbating in writing a special skill possessed by most ‘Wing-nuts’…

      • framu 13.1.4

        serious question here – why dont we just expect and require a basic level of objective professionalism from the media?

        no bullshit, no distractions, leave those goal posts alone – do you think its acceptable for trained professionals to act like they got kicked out of the first year of journo school?

        • Gosman 13.1.4.1

          The trouble is the very fact of determining if the media is biased or not is subjective. Take the Campbell live ‘expose’ of the issues around the GCSB last week. Most leftists here seemed to think it was great investigative journalism, whereas most right wingers I know of thought is was conspiratorial nonsense lacking any real substance, rehashed the known facts, and presented in a overly emotive manner (e.g. with the use of the mood music throughout). Unless you got buy in from both sides of the political spectrum it is unlikely you can ensure balance to any major degree.

          • framu 13.1.4.1.1

            yeah nice try – the issue was this was it not?

            ” and screaming down and ranting at anyone that dares to even go near rubbishing anything pro National.”

            stop distracting

            do you support this from people who are meant to be paid professionals or not?

            do you consider this to be the hallmarks of experienced considered journalism?

            is it in any way even remotely close to the drivel your spouting above?

      • Bearded Git 13.1.5

        That is not a serious question Gosman.

        It’s like the dumb argument the landowners put forward when development is declined in Outstanding Natural Landscape where they say “Why don’t the greenies buy the land if they want it protected.”

    • North 13.2

      Increasingly Plonkit is a bullying fuck ! Not even essentially a principled right winger. Just an overbearing, bullying fuck. With the power of the kill button and the legions of moral flea callers he knows are just champing at the bit to suck his arse. Fuck him and his nothing contribution to anything !

  13. Marius 14

    Anyone attempting to start a radio station that isn’t right leaning might be in imminent danger of receiving a drone strike.
    P.s. drone = Plunket, Espiner, you etc

  14. how about john banks..?

    ..and that cerumen-munching..?

    …eh..?

    ..whoar..!

    • karol 15.1

      A commenter on open mike pointed it out at the time.

      TV3 has been summoned to court. Is this censorship? Or is the footage prejudicial to Banks while on trial?

      • Poission 15.1.1

        It will be troublesome for the torys,that Banks has expressed himself as a Whig (albeit an earwhig)

      • Tracey 15.1.2

        well tv3 does do the tabloid thing… Often in their headlines is something meaningless about some celebrity type, so this would fit that bill.

      • Clemgeopin 15.1.3

        Here is the video. Watch towards the end at 2:00 minutes:
        WARNING: Don’t watch if you are squeamish, feeling sick or eating meals.

        http://www.3news.co.nz/John-Banks-police-interview-played-to-court/tabid/309/articleID/345312/Default.aspx

        • bad12 15.1.3.1

          Lolz, that is hilarious, specially done in that setting by John ‘the soon to be Anonymous’ Banks,

          The bloke is a natural to star in the next remake of Planet of the Apes, i should imagine that a whole posse of ‘like minds’ from the ACT Party if dropped onto Mars would have no more dietary requirements than each others bodily wastes,

          The fact that this particular cabbage can be elected to various high office positions has me worried tho about the long term survival of our species…

          • Clemgeopin 15.1.3.1.1

            I literally laughed out loud! Very funny! You are on a roll today. Seems like the comedic goddess has kissed your literary brain today.

            • bad12 15.1.3.1.1.1

              Thank the gods for that, i thought as i got to the ”comeddic goddess kissed your” of another entirely different anatomical feature altogether,

              Must be all that coffee and cinnamon with less sugar than normal…

          • Ben Adam 15.1.3.1.2

            That Banks video in the previous link done gone burgers. Stuff news reported it is on YouTube. I searched and Oh là là, found it! Eureka, Eureka! Here it is!

    • Rosie 15.2

      Yeah. Ugh, I was trying to eat dinner during that close up of Banks picking, investigating and then nomming his earwax.

      Wondered what the consequences would be for TV3, and now they have reaped them.

      It was a funny stunt though………..

  15. Naki man 17

    Cheesy earwax, disgusting

    • North 17.1

      Well done Wylie J !

      About time someone told those ‘masters of the universe’ TV3 News wankers where to get off. Wouldn’t have liked to have been them before the judge. Bet they didn’t try the sneery ‘we can do what we like ‘cos we’re newshounds and we own what the people may know……’ smartarse stuff.

      As much as Banks is an arsehole……let him suffer derision for what really matters. Complete absence of public ethics.

      Note however how they can turn. Daresay they’ll be off the acceptable patron list at Marie Antoines-ette Greasy Spoon in ParNelly.

    • Clemgeopin 17.2

      ?? @ Naki man, want to know if your ‘cheesy earwax’ comment is meant for my post below to which you are replying. Is it?

      Just enjoy:
      http://sfglobe.com/?id=463

  16. Tracey 18

    Just had an ear out for a documentary about goering where many of his us army guards were interviewed. Many of the guards asked him for his autograph and many accepted momentoes from him, many made from solid gold.

  17. Tracey 19

    The greens made their education policy announcement last week and today it is their insulation policy.

    Even audrey young concedes that the previous scheme to insulate homes national and the greens, even if the nats are too petty to give credit where it is due. Anyway the nats are cutting the scheme and the greens are not. 200,000 more homes and a specific policy for christchurch, Warming Up Christchurch

    https://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/greens-announce-60m-investment-warming-christchurch-homes

    • Colonial Viper 19.1

      Last insulation scheme was a nice little sop to middle class homeowners and property investors; this time the Greens have added in the rental WOF policy so they have listened and improved.

  18. Tracey 20

    turns out the govt was using smoke and mirrors over the auckland city rail loop. well according to that well known hard left organisation, pricewaterhousecoopers anyway

    “Last year, Prime Minister John Key said the Government would bring forward the project from 2030 to 2020, or earlier if the set targets were met.

    These were that rail patronage was on track to hit 20 million trips well before 2020 and if central city employment increased by 25 per cent.

    The PWC report said the rail patronage target was technically achievable, but was not likely to show up until after full rail electrification in 2015 and 2016.

    The Government’s employment target is “practically unachievable” because of the constraints on spare office space and new office buildings coming on stream prior to 2017 when the targets would be reviewed to make an early start on the rail link.

    The report recommended new rail targets in line with current growth of 800,000 new rail trips per year and post rail electrification of 1.5 million new rail trips.

    New employment growth targets should be based on declining vacancy rates of existing office space and sufficient new office space to meet forecast employment growth by 2021.

    • bad12 20.1

      On the subject of the Auckland ‘rail-loop’ i just heard that (expletive deleted) Michelle Boag in high screech on RadioNZ National claiming that one of the Trusts set up when that (expletive deleted) Max whats-his-face ripped apart all the electricity lines companies has Billions of dollars in it while only paying out a few hundred a year to people by dint of where in Auckland they live, AND, why should Her rates go to pay for the Auckland rail-loop,

      Typical fucking Tory thief, why should she pay a few dollars more in rates when there’s somebody else’s money that could be neatly ripped off instead,

      i see RED…

  19. Rosie 21

    Just completed a Colmar Brunton online survey, on behalf of Victoria Uni, to gather views of welfare fraud Vs. tax evasion. The survey comprises of pro or anti tax and welfare fraud statements. The participant clicks on a range of options from strongly disagree to strongly agree.

    The statements (some of which looked like they had come out of the mouths of SSLands, BM etc) made me think of the moral orientation of those that have strong views either way on these topics.

    One interesting theory we studied in Psych was Kohlberg’s theory of moral development, some of you may be familiar with this idea. There are 3 levels of development containing two sub levels each, ranging from one: preconventional: obedience and punishment orientation, conventional, social norms and good girl/boy orientations, up to three: post conventional: Universal ethical principles orientation.

    Quite often the arguments on here between right and left are really moral ones: The right typically argue at the punishment(most basic) level and the left typically argue the social contract and universal ethical principles (most developed).

    The corruption we’ve seen lately within our government is being justified by Key and co at the most basic preconventional level – and what is behind that is “we can get away with it” ie, the Natz have poor moral development! No news flash there though, we all know that, but it’s interesting to have a theory to explain behaviours and attitudes.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg's_stages_of_moral_development

  20. Tracey 22

    oh michelle also wants more prisons but not near her homes and doesnt want 3 to 5 level apartments in her neighbourhood and can afford to pay parking in the city… cant everyone

  21. North 23

    Morrissey……..where are you ?

    Thought about you today as I listened to Michelle and Brian on Mora being their usual besties with their unspoken “lah lah lah” misapprehension that there’s ample cake out there for the eating.

    M ‘n’ B who between them know ALL the power people. “Shall we discuss Brian and Judy’s ongoing quest for a new house – staying in the area Brian ?” – (Mora). “Mmmm……well…… David and Karen are just round the corner” – (Brian). “Much grander place than yours Brian, ho ho ho” – (Michelle to her bestie – mock chidingly).

    Michelle stridently denouncing Rudman of The Herlad for the leftie he apparently is (indulged with silence from all). Brian laconically reminding himself he’s meant to be a Labour voter.

    They remind me of “Waiting For God” those two old anachronisms. I’m sure Morrissey could make more of these comfortable plus wonderful people than I can.

    Get on back here Mo’ !

  22. Tinshed 24

    I get that there is a huge ideological difference between National and Labour. There are many areas of the Government’s current neo-liberal policies that can be vigorously debated and contested. While I am probably on the wrong side of that debate from many of the commentators here, I get that there is a genuine debate to be had. But I find it utterly despicable that the leader of the Labour Party should play the Peters/Farange-lite version of the anti-foreign, anti-immigrant demagogue. There is no argument here: immigration is a good thing. We are, or were, all immigrants at one time or other. Playing the anti-immigrant card is a new low in my view. And please don’t tell me it is out of genuine concern for rising house prices. It is pandering to NZ First voters or worse. Shame, utterly shameful.

    • mickysavage 24.1

      Did you actually see the clip on TV3? There was no dog whistle. What Cunliffe said was “It would take 80 percent of our housing supply just to accommodate this year’s migrants – and National is doing nothing” along with “[w]e reckon immigration should be at a steady moderate level – that’s where our housing, our schools and our hospitals can cope.” Sounds perfectly sensible to me. Do you think there should be no limit on immigration?

      • Tinshed 24.1.1

        Yes I did see the item on TV3. You ask, “Do you think there should be no limit on immigration?”. That is such a straw man argument that it barely rates a riposte but I’ll fall into the trap anyway. No government has ever, ever had a “limitless” immigration policy and no-one has ever, ever advocated such a thing. Sheesh.

        My point is that the richness and diversity of New Zealand is due to its immigrant populations and that we should encourage and celebrate immigration and those that wish to settle here. Not “limitless” immigration because that is an absurdity. But I genuinely do not attribute any of New Zealand’s economic ills or distortions to the number of immigrants we have. And Labour is better than to suggest so.

        • Colonial Viper 24.1.1.1

          Frankly, no one seems to be having a serious conversation about the strategic immigration needs of this nation. If we can’t provide a decent standard of living, housing and employment for native born NZers then commonsense says that we would need good reason to bring in even more people. And that’s even before Kiwis in Oz start flooding back.

        • Draco T Bastard 24.1.1.2

          No government has ever, ever had a “limitless” immigration policy and no-one has ever, ever advocated such a thing.

          You’re right about the former, wrong on the latter.

          But I genuinely do not attribute any of New Zealand’s economic ills or distortions to the number of immigrants we have.

          [citation needed]

          • TheContrarian 24.1.1.2.1

            Draco’s policy on immigration seems like it is straight from UKIP’s policy booklet

    • North 24.2

      Thank you Mr Passive/Aggressive Tinshed…..losing it at the end. Who says there is NO argument here, on ANY front, re immigration. ? You ? Wow ! I’m impressed. You talk in ridiculous absolutes. Suggestive that as one on the other side of the neoliberal debate (as you acknowledge), you indulge your essential wont, viz. to lash from your high horse, those not with the neoliberal agenda. Fuck off with your high dudgeon. Unclutch your pearls baby !

      I wouldn’t be so quick to claim the absolute wonders of immigration regardless of context were I you. The first wave raped Maori, literally nearly to death. You reckon the execution of that immigration was unquestionably a wonderful thing ? Don’t bother answering. That was all ‘different’ yeah I know.

  23. Disraeli Gladstone 25

    I think I’m going to Party Vote Green.

    Because where the fuck else is a social liberal meant to vote when Labour are dog-whistling on immigration, National are like a yo-yo between liberal conservatism and hard-right economics and Mana is going to hook up with a convicted venture capitalist?

    Even the Greens aren’t entirely clear of the whole toxic bashing on immigrants, but they’re the least worst.

    Will be by far the most left-wing economically I’ve voted, though.

    • Kiwiri 25.1

      “I think I’m going to Party Vote Green.”

      How about the following to help crystallise the thinking into action?

      Maintain universal New Zealand Superannuation for all New Zealanders 65 years and older, adjusted annually in accordance with movement in the Consumer Price Index, and within the constraints that:

      a. The rate for a couple cannot fall below 65% of the average ordinary time weekly earnings (after the deduction of standard tax and the earner premium payable on those earnings) as determined by the Department of Statistics.

      b. The rate for a couple cannot exceed 72.5 % of the average ordinary time weekly earnings (after the deduction of standard tax and the earner premium payable on those earnings) as determined by the Department of Statistics.

      c. The rate for a single person living alone is 65% of the rate for a couple.

      d. The rate for a single person not living alone is 60% of that for a couple.

      https://www.greens.org.nz/policy/income-support-policy

    • Jebus 25.2

      Oh FFS, really? Paddy Gower beats up a story and calls ‘dog whistle’ and you don’t have a whiff of suspicion?

      Piece was clearly edited to suite Gower’s story. This is how 3 News operates. Get with the programme.

  24. joe90 26

    Beyond the reach of working people courtesy of a global real estate market.

    .

    .
    The globalization of real estate upends some of our basic assumptions about housing prices. We expect them to reflect local fundamentals—above all, how much people earn. In a truly global market, that may not be the case. If there are enough rich people in China who want property in Vancouver, prices can float out of reach of the people who actually live and work there. So just because prices look out of whack doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a bubble. Instead, wealthy foreigners are rationally overpaying, in order to protect themselves against risk at home. And the possibility of losing a little money if prices subside won’t deter them. Yan says, “If the choice is between losing ten to twenty per cent in Vancouver versus potentially losing a hundred per cent in Beijing or Tehran, then people are still going to be buying in Vancouver.”

    […]

    One option would be to severely restrict foreign ownership, but that’s politically difficult, and not great for a city’s economy. It might make more sense if the Vancouvers of the world simply charged foreign buyers a premium for the privilege of owning there. “We’re one of the places where people seem to want to park their cash, and there aren’t that many of those places,” Yan says. “So let’s raise the parking fees.” As for the rest of us, we’d better get used to being tenants.

    http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2014/05/26/140526ta_talk_surowiecki

  25. small thing 27

    Did you know the National Party has underwritten Birth Deaths and Marriages or they own your soul , would you to think so if you believed all their arrogant BS
    So dont be surprised if the apathy about voting is not entirely people not caring or are satisfied with the way things are, elections cost money and your life force so basically the razzmatazz of electioneering just serves those who get paid too much for what they do when if the money was spent on our kids we might get better value
    All thats needed is a notice in the paper and the parties to fund themselves you know sticking to good business practice to get an election done it would save a lot of money
    Just an out of it thought and Americans cant spell

  26. the voter 28

    Get a life Key and stop fucking with our intelligence you smuck WE DONT NEED you drying out our afternoon radio by telling us who should run the NATIONAL RADIO program
    Anyway Bomber should get a shot at it or is that up to the GCSB now who gets the job or is it Goebbels rising from the grave to run our entertainment

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