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Open mike 26/07/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 26th, 2016 - 68 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

68 comments on “Open mike 26/07/2016 ”

  1. Paul 1

    The horrific attacks in Germany all have one thing in common

    The reality is that Germany has suffered a series of attacks which are equally worrying but which apparently have little in common. While more information will no doubt come out in the coming days, the causes of each case could so far be summed up as follows:

    Psychological instability mixed with neo-Nazi inspirations.
    Inspiration from Daesh.
    A record of violent behaviour.
    Suicidal tendencies with a link to Daesh.
    One factor in common, however, is that the attackers were all people who almost certainly felt marginalised within German society. Those responsible for the events in Ansbach, Reutlingen and Würzburg, meanwhile, also had an extra element in common – that they’d all previously lived in countries with recent histories of extremely violent conflict. But all four people had very real psychological issues, whether these were related to marginalisation or the horrors of war.

    Whenever there’s injustice, marginalisation, and/or indoctrination, there’s also desperation, anger, hatred, and/or mental torment. And violence is just one consequence of these feelings – whether it manifests itself as neo-Nazi attacks, Daesh-inspired attacks, or any other kind of attack.

    If Germany is to avoid another week like the one it’s just had, one action it can and must take is to pay much more attention to the psychological needs of the most vulnerable people in its society – no matter where they were born.


  2. Paul 2

    Assad the tyrant?

    Consider: Ukraine and Greece .. Iraq, Libya and Syria … Bolivia, Venezuela and a string of other nations whose policies displeased Washington and Wall Street. Great overarching narratives on the governance of these nations are built – prior to interventions overt or covert – on the back of dodgy evidence. By weight of repetition, and through the sober intonations of politicians and ‘impartial experts’, these narratives acquire the status of unassailable truth. I’ve heard experienced academics – men and women who routinely and rightly take their students to task for failing to substantiate assertions in their essays – trot out such unconsciously pro-imperialist views without a shred of evidence. I’ve had a seasoned and courageous leftwing activist tell me, when challenged to back up a claim that Assad is every bit as bad as ISIS, that she’d see if she could “dig something up” – then lose her temper when I said that smacked of looking for evidence to prop up an a priori conclusion. (Other than a link to Al Jazeera, its own source that splendid chap at Syrian Observatory, I’ve yet to hear back.) And I’ve had a Jewish friend tell me the dirt on Assad “can’t all be made up”. Lesser chaps than I might fall into the slough of despond when such as he – kinsman to folk who do know a thing or two about industrial scale smear – talk like this.

    in every instance where the west has put its military and financial weight behind unseating an alleged tyrant in the middle east the results have been: murderous chaos … privatisation … the destruction of welfare provision … fat profits not only for arms suppliers but Big Capital in general, aided by opportunist politicians – check Haliburton-Cheney, Clinton-ExxonMobil. In sum, those with most to gain by removing the ‘tyrant’ just happen to be those controlling the narrative on his tyranny. That doesn’t automatically invalidate the narrative but should make us suspicious. So why doesn’t it? Why do so many on the left and centre-left repeat and relay that narrative without troubling to do a bit of independent appraisal of the evidence? And, yes, I do know that some folk have jobs, kids and busy lives. Not everyone can sink hour on hour into investigating every single claim by billionaire media but what we can all do is make room for old fashioned scepticism and that perennially useful question, cui bono?


    • Garibaldi 2.1

      Excellent post – especially the link. I recommend everyone read it.

    • locus 2.2

      This opinion piece doesn’t absolve Assad. Nor does saying he’s not as bad as the rest add any justification for the atrocities that this war has led to, and that his regime has undoubtedly contributed to.

      Assad was asked to step down in 2011 by many world leaders shocked by him ordering military strikes that killed thousands of civilian protesters in cities around the country so he could snuff out the popular uprising. Remember Homs?

      China and Russia, voted against the UN resolution in 2012 that was led by Morocco requesting Assad step down to enable peaceful democratic transition. These two powers had a clear self interest to block this – and knew that the end game in doing so would be civil war.

      I am definitely not defending the Western powers involvement in all this, but it is absolutely reasonable to assume that had Assad stood down in 2012 all of this bloodshed and destruction might have been avoided.

      Any argument that Assad decided to stay on in power in order to stop Syria becoming a puppet state of the West is negated by the fact that it was already a puppet state of Russia and Assad had demonstrated he was quite willing to bomb civilians in order to retain pesonal power.

      The reality now, irrespective of the arguments surrounding the causes of the civil war, is that there are multiple Syrian factions (including Assad) waging a horrific war against one another, while other nations – none of whom have clean hands – provide money, weaponry and direct military support

      The tragedy of 5 years of war is evident to the world….. miilions of people displaced, families irreparably harmed, hundreds of thousands slaughtered – and mindless, amoral, unceasing bombing and destruction of their homes…. these pictures are too moving to describe:

      • Colonial Viper 2.2.1

        Any argument that Assad decided to stay on in power in order to stop Syria becoming a puppet state of the West is negated by the fact that it was already a puppet state of Russia and Assad had demonstrated he was quite willing to bomb civilians in order to retain pesonal power.

        Sorry mate, but NATO member Turkey, as well as France and the USA, have also been quite willing to bomb civilians in order to get their own political way in Syria.

        The west has ratcheted up pressure and sanctions on Assad for years in the hope that his country would spiral out of control and Israel + Saudi Arabia would win.

        A climate crisis (worst drought in 1200 years) provided the background of social instability that the western regime change programme could exploit.

        And exploit they did, by infiltrating thousands if jihadist terrorists, weapons and money into Syria in an illegal attempt to destroy the legal government of a foreign country.

        Bottom line is that had the west had its way, and Russia not defended their long time ally, the black flag of ISIS would now be flying over Damascus, and millions of women would now be living under Sharia law, and members of all ethnic and religious miniorities enslaved or beheaded.

        TL/DR the west needs to stop trying to get rid of secular heads of state in the ME and replacing them with head chopping, pilot burning, Christian slaying, Kurd killing Islamic fundamentalists.

        • locus

          so two wrongs make a right CV…

          I find it incredibly depressing that an increasing number of decent and I assume civilised people think it’s okay to go to extremes and take anything they don’t agree with as a means of justifying or excusing their ‘less evil’ version of a monster – not that your argument goes this far CV

          but frankly I find it absolutely terrifying that there is so much burgeoning emotionally driven support for out and out fascists

          what was it that John Stewart said.. something along the lines that ‘it’s fine to provide gymnastic arguments to support my lying, racist, despot – so long as he gets into power’

          • Colonial Viper

            so two wrongs make a right CV

            I don’t even know what this means in this context. The US/Turkey/Qatar/Saudi Arabia decided to try and replace Assad with ISIS. That wasn’t for the good of the Syrian people mind you, or protecting protestors, or democracy or whatever other BS PR they put out. That was for their own geopolitical rationales.

            The only reason the black flag of ISIS is not over Damascus right now is because the Russians had enough of the west and their mates sponsoring Islamic terrorism in the Middle East.

            Was Assad wrong to shoot hundreds of protestors? Yes. Was the west wrong in using that to justify a regime change effort by Islamist proxies which has now killed 400,000 Syrians. Yes.

            • locus

              Assad is more than guilty of murdering ‘hundreds’ – it was thousands of unarmed Syrians he murdered in the civil protests during 2011 –

              And Assad’s regime – amply supported by Russia and its allies – has killed hundreds of thousands of civilians during the 5 years since

              framing the massive number of people killed as “regime change effort” suggests blame for the shelling and bombing of cities, and monstrous war crimes inflicted on civilians for the past 5 years is all on the shoulders of the Islamists and those behid the ‘regime change effort’ – and that this destruction is somehow not also the result of Assad (with Russia’s support) fighting a war to retain absolute power and in Russia’s case to control access to a strategic port

              it still holds that if the Russians and Chinese had backed the UN resolution to get Assad to step down in 2012 this war might have been prevented, and if there had been a UN managed transition of power four years ago a humane democratic Syrian leader may have emerged to establish a stronger more unified force against ISIS…

              but this is all ifs

              your framing that the black flag of ISIS isn’t over Damascus because of the Russians suggests that you think they are saviours – and that you don’t believe they have equally sponsored terrorism in the Middle East

              let’s not kid ourselves, the great powers will continue to play dirty games in the dire politics of this region probably for hundreds of years to come… which is why it is imperative to expose them wherever we can, and hold them to account rather than picking sides or excusing dictatorial regimes

              let’s hope to heck that for at least a short while Russia and the US can work together once this war ends to help Syria rebuild, recover and establish democratic institutions – much as they did for Germany and Japan after WW2

    • DoublePlusGood 2.3

      Didn’t Assad use chemical weapons on civilian areas in Damascus? Seems pretty valid to have a bad opinion on him.

      • Colonial Viper 2.3.1


        No he didn’t.

        The chemical signatures of those weapons did not match those from Assad’s armoury.

        Basically, anti-Assad forces produced and used those chemical weapons as a false flag and almost got away with it.

        Russia presented the chemical analysis to Obama, and that is why Obama did not trigger his “red line” against Assad.

        Russia brokered the deal where Assad handed over all his chemical weapon stockpiles which were then destroyed.

    • Chooky 2.4

      +100 Paul …yes very good thought provoking article

  3. Paul 3

    Shock claim that US commander masterminded Turkey failed coup leads to torching of NATO base vicinity

    The situation in Turkey is now at the hysterical stage. Last night an area close to a US-NATO base in Turkey was set alight. Sabotage is suspected, though no one has claimed responsibility.

    However, it is likely the fire was begun as a direct result of claims in a pro-Government paper, Yeni Safak, that US commander John F Campbell (retired) was the architect of the coup attempt. If this allegation turns out to be true there will be major repercussions with regard to Turkey’s role in NATO and the entire Midle East region will be affected. If they turn out to be false, given that the paper is a mouthpiece of President Erdogan, US-Turkey relation will be seriously harmed.


    • AsleepWhileWalking 3.1

      That would be the “fake” coup that allowed Erdogan to massacre those on the list (kept so close it could be used within hours) of people who opposed the government.

      Now they have taken treasonous school children captive.

      • Colonial Viper 3.1.1

        Best explanation is that it was a real coup, but Erdogan got several hours notice (information from Russian intelligence), and let it happen after taking steps to ensure that it would fail.

        The coup plotters had to push their launch forward by several hours and only had a fraction of the forces they thought that they would have.

  4. Paul 4

    Email leak rocks Democrats

    Democrats in the United States have been scrambling to contain damaging revelations of an insider effort to hobble Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign, with the party boss abruptly announcing her resignation on the eve of the convention to officially nominate Hillary Clinton.


    • tc 4.1

      The democrats caught out being most undemocratic toward one of their own.

      Thing is they are mostly all owned by unseen corporate masters.

    • Colonial Viper 4.2

      They are trying to blame the email leak on Putin lol

      Now Snowden has chimed in: he says the NSA can use XKEYSCORE to definitively assess who did leak the emails.

      • AsleepWhileWalking 4.2.1

        Guccifer 2.0 claims responsibility. He is Romanian and no doubt offended the Democrats are spinning this into a Russian conspiracy.


        I’d avoid pissing off hackers Romanian or otherwise if I were them.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.2

        Which would account for the reference to two hacking groups with links to Moscow. Don’t forget to denounce that as establishment propaganda.

        • Colonial Viper

          Uh what?

          The NSA’s XKEYSCORE programme can definitively reveal where the email leaks came from.

          There doesn’t need to be any mystery or misinformation here.

    • Garibaldi 4.3

      I am disappointed that Bernie has fallen in behind Hilary. They must have something over him for him to have capitulated like that. Should be an interesting convention!

      • Adrian 4.3.1

        Yeah, it’s called Trump!.

      • Chooky 4.3.2

        +100 Garibaldi…why did Bernie fall in behind Clinton?…is he a phony?…he certainly doesn’t have the fight that Corbyn has …or courage of his convictions…and nor does Elisabeth Warren imo

        • Olwyn

          I have been told that candidates sign an agreement from the outset that they will support whoever is ultimately selected, and I don’t think Bernie is the type to break such an agreement. His stated aim is to change politics, and I think he will from now on concentrate on getting like-minded people into congress.

    • swordfish 4.4

      Interesting parallels with UK Labour. Claims in the Daily Telegraph that Labour Party General Secretary, Iain McNicol, tried to stitch things up to keep Corbyn off ballot …

      … McNicol as the UK’s answer to Debbie Wasserman Schultz.


      Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters have accused the head of the Labour Party of “subverting” internal rules and keeping legal advice “hidden” to effectively block him running for the leadership, legal papers have revealed.

      In documents seen by The Telegraph, Mr Corbyn’s backers claim Iain McNicol, Labour’s general secretary, went to “great lengths” to keep secret a crucial party board meeting about his future.

      They also accuse Mr McNicol of trying to “manufacture a situation whereby Jeremy Corbyn’s name will be omitted from the leadership ballot” despite being bound to remain impartial during the contest.

  5. b waghorn 5


    “There is no greater crime being perpetuated on future generations than that committed by those who deny climate change. The scientific consensus is so overwhelming that to argue against it is to perpetuate a dangerous fraud. Denial has become a yardstick by which intelligence can be tested. The term climate sceptic is now interchangeable with the term mindless fool.”

    Telling it like it is

    • Jenny 5.1

      Indeed. In opposing taking real meaningful government actions to combat climate change, claiming climate change does not exist, does not cut it anymore.

      Those who oppose taking real meaningful action to combat climate change take a much more subtle approach these days.

    • One Two 5.2

      Taking a position and verbalising it is not a crime, and never should be

      The wording and logic is wrong

      Think it through

      • McFlock 5.2.1

        Taking a position and verbalising it is not a crime, and never should be

        Yes, it often is and should be.
        “Taking a position and verbalising it” can describe fraud, incitement to violence, incitement to riot, conspiracy, obtaining credit by deception, blackmail, reckless endangerment, negligence, perjury, and a variety of other criminal offences.

        • One Two

          “There is no greater crime being perpetuated on future generations than that committed by those who deny climate change”

          Denial is not a crime!

          • McFlock

            Officer: you know who murdered that child
            Offender [lying]: no I do not

            That denial is a crime.

            Insurance company: do you have a history of heart disease?
            Offender [lying]: no I do not

            That denial is a crime.

            employee: have you used that coffee cup to hold cyanide?
            Offender [lying]: no I have not

            That denial is a crime.

            • One Two

              You can’t seriously be that big of a dolt…can you?

              The context, is so called climate change denial, which is not a crime

              No matter who claims it to be!

              • McFlock

                Actually, if I’m at all familiar with the research into climate change and I advise someone that, for example, they’ll be fine if they build an expensive home on beachfront property with the intention of selling it in twenty or fify years time, then I could well be charged with “causing loss by deception” under section240 of the Crimes Act 1961.

                • One Two

                  You genuinely are operating at a low frequency which explains your interpretations of ‘ actual knowledge’

                  Another option is that you’re a total dickhead, which is essentially one and the same

                  In case you do have a mental health problem, my apologies and I withdraw

                  Whatever your condition, stay off my comments as well

                  • McFlock

                    You’re not operating at a higher frequency, it’s just a mosquito buzzing around where your brain should be.

  6. locus 6

    A serious lapse of judgement by wikileaks dumping millions of private emails and personal information about all women voters in Turkey has potentially put thousands in extreme danger:

    We are talking about millions of women whose private, personal information has been dumped into the world, with nary an outcry. Their addresses are out there for every stalker, ex-partner, disapproving relative or random crazy to peruse as they wish. And let’s remember that, every year in Turkey, hundreds of women are murdered, most often by current or ex-husbands or boyfriends, and thousands of women leave their homes or go into hiding, seeking safety.


    • Colonial Viper 6.1

      great of the piece’s author to draw such huge publicity to the existence and location of these databases, as well as carefully describing their contents, for the sake of her own career. She even says that other news outlets did not really examine the leaked info in the detail she did, and missed presenting these facts.

      Now she’s let all the non IT savvy stalkers in the world know.

      Highly educated and highly stupid all at the same time.

  7. swordfish 7

    Coup Crumbling

    First of the 60 UK Labour frontbenchers who resigned en masse … asks to return.
    Sarah Champion, MP for Rotherham, is to rejoin the shadow cabinet less than a month after her dramatic resignation. On 28 June, in the aftermath of Brexit, she tweeted: “I have just stepped down from my shadow minister job, but not my responsibilities to my constituents, party or victims of abuse.”

    Champion now formally retracts her resignation and asks Corbyn to be reinstated as Shadow Home Office Minister. Welcomed back with open arms. Expected to be first of many returnees, now that the writing’s on the wall.

    As Left-Wing Activist / Corbyn-supporter, Aaaron Bastani tweeted:

    Champion, like much of party, was persuaded by arguments generated by instigators of coup: that Boris would be PM & call immediate election … Consciously created, exploited, dynamic of urgency. Many excellent MPs made decisions I think they now regret. Am told all welcome to return




  8. swordfish 8

    Trump post-Convention Poll Bounce

    Donald Trump comes out of his convention ahead of Hillary Clinton in the race for the White House, topping her 44% to 39% in a four-way matchup including Gary Johnson (9%) and Jill Stein (3%) and by three points in a two-way head-to-head, 48% to 45%. That latter finding represents a 6-point convention bounce for Trump … There hasn’t been a significant post-convention bounce in CNN’s polling since 2000 …

    … The new findings mark Trump’s best showing in a CNN/ORC Poll against Clinton since September 2015. Trump’s new edge rests largely on increased support among independents … Pre-convention, independents split 34% Clinton to 31% Trump, with sizable numbers behind Johnson (22%) and Stein (10%). Now, 46% say they back Trump, 28% Clinton, 15% Johnson and 4% Stein …

    … Beyond boosting his overall support, Trump’s favorability rating is also on the rise (46% of registered voters say they have a positive view, up from 39% pre-convention), while his advantage over Clinton on handling top issues climbs. He now holds double-digit margins over Clinton as more trusted on the economy and terrorism … (and has) … cut into Clinton’s edge on managing foreign policy (50% said they trusted her more, down from 57% pre-convention).

    The convention also helped Trump make strides in his personal image. A majority (52%) now say Trump is running for president for the good of the country rather than personal gain, just 44% say the same about Clinton. He’s increased the share who call him honest and trustworthy (from 38% to 43%), and who would be proud to have him as president (from 32% to 39%). And nearly half now say he’s in touch with the problems ordinary Americans face in their daily lives (46% say so, 37% did before the convention) …

    … Clinton’s ratings on these same measures took a hit, though in most cases her drop-off was not quite as large as Trump’s gain. Perhaps most troubling for the Clinton supporters gathering in Philadelphia this week: 68% now say Clinton is not honest and trustworthy, her worst rating on that measure in CNN/ORC polling.


    Most Recent 2016 Presidential Polls

    Polls released Monday July 25

    CNN/ORC Trump 48, Clinton 45 ……………………………………………… Trump +3
    CBS News Trump 44, Clinton 43 ……………………………………………… Trump +1
    Economist/YouGov Trump 42, Clinton 47 ………………………………. Clinton +5
    LA Times/USC Trump 45, Clinton 41 ……………………………………….. Trump +4
    CNN/ORC Clinton 39, Trump 44, Johnson 9, Stein 3 ………………… Trump +5
    Economist/YouGov Clinton 40, Trump 38, Johnson 5, Stein 3 …. Clinton +2
    CBS News Clinton 39, Trump 40, Johnson 12 …………………………… Trump +1

    • Colonial Viper 8.1

      The DNC Convention has not started smoothly with lots of anti-Clinton booing by pro-Sanders delegates.

      We also know that the convention is receiving a tonne of live media coverage.

      We also know that the general public is way more keen on Sanders than Clinton.

      Maybe the Democrats are going to find it hard to get a good bounce from their 4 day convention.

      • Sanders has tweeted, asking the maddies to tone it down.

        • Colonial Viper

          He’s not in charge of these people any more and I predict the volume is going to go up not down.

        • Colonial Viper

          Video of departing Democratic Party chair person Debbie Wasserman Schultz being booed down at a breakfast meeting of Florida’s Democratic convention voting delegates.

          Wasserman Schultz had to be escorted out of her own party’s breakfast event by security.

        • adam

          Good to see you using moderate and inclusive language, to try and not starting a flame war there te reo putake.

      • Olwyn 8.1.2

        I am not sure how reliable this is, but the claim is that Sanders will be “placed in nomination” at the DNC. I take it that such a move would be intended to show the strength of Bernie’s support base, thus weakening Hillary’s ability to get away with making only minor policy concessions. http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-speech-hot-mic-nomination/

      • Anne 8.1.3

        CV @ 8.1
        “I’m hoping the Democrats are going to find it hard to get a good bounce from their 4 day convention.”

        Fify. 🙄

        • Colonial Viper

          Hi Anne. There’s no way that I can be clearer than I have been that I think Trump would be a far better POTUS for NZ than Hillary Clinton.

          Less likely to go to guns against China and Russia in the Pacific. Will put the TPP into the shredder by lunch time. Won’t ask NZ troops to take part in “coalition” wars of regime change.

      • swordfish 8.1.4

        Just released Economist/YouGov Poll

        Suggests just over half of Sanders supporters who voted in the Democratic Primaries will support Clinton come Election Day. Just 5% say they will back Trump, but almost 40% are intending to back one of the minor candidates – Stein slightly ahead of Johnson.

        Poll probably conducted immediately prior to Debbie Wasserman Schultz revelations, though. May cut into that Clinton support.

        Sanders Supporters who voted in Dem Primaries
        Favourability towards Clinton
        Unfavourable … 58%
        Favourable ……. 42%
        (They’re overwhelmingly unfavourable to Trump and are more favourable to the Greens’ Jill Stein than other partisans. Will their antagonism towards Trump ultimately triumph over their anger at Clinton and see them holding their collective noses to tick Hillary ? Or have the latest revelations changed everything ?)

        Sanders Supporters who voted in Dem primaries
        Feelings about Clinton as Dem Candidate
        Enthusiastic ………………………………………… 8%
        Satisfied but not Enthusiastic ……………… 29%
        Dissatisfied but not Upset …………………… 34%
        Upset ………………………………………………….. 29%

        • Colonial Viper

          Not sure if you were the one put up a link to this…but I read that Bernie’s supporters may vote Clinton…but they are now for the most part passive voters.

          They aren’t going to campaign for Clinton, they aren’t going to push their friends and family to turn out on the day for Clinton, they might not even make it to a polling booth on the day if they get busy.

    • Colonial Viper 8.2

      Donald Trump is riding high in the polls, surging past Hillary Clinton to leads in all six of the latest national polls released since Saturday.

      That’s good news for Trump. Some wondered if the Republican National Convention last week might not give the Republican nominee the post-convention polling bump most presidential candidates get — but it’s looking like it did.

      The liberal media piece then spends several hundred words reassuring lefties why this isn’t really a big problem for Clinton and why 6 polls are just rogues.

      A fascinating read in intellectual self-deception.


  9. whispering kate 9

    Did anybody hear Merepeka Raukawa-Tait on TVNZ’s Breakfast 7.15 this morning. My God did she sock it to the Government about the moribund CYFS Department and the ineffective treatment of our young children. She basically said that if the Department cannot deliver and do their job it should be disbanded and allow others who can have “access to the front doors” of these vulnerable children, to do the job. It was in answer to the Government’s idea to have the police pay informants who witness abuse. The lady said it was a shocking indictment that they have to go as low as pay informants when they should be tackling the root of the problem – which of course we all know.

    What a hopeless Government we have. This lady was eloquent, to the point and didn’t waffle, and is wasted wherever she is and should be elevated to a role where she can really deliver on what she wants to see happen to these children. She is what our pollies should be, passionate and bloody determined that our littlies and older children should not have to put up with the shit that is happening in their lives. God bless her and I hope she is cherry picked for Government – not that I think such a great lady would want to soil her life by association with Government and the people in it. All power to her.

  10. Nck 10

    I wonder if the polls are just as fixed as the rest of the political crims….

  11. Andre 11

    Why Putin might be trying to mess with Clinton (besides being buddy-buddy with Trump)…


    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      How the war party establishment labels everyone that they do not like “Putin’s useful idiot”

      From Snowden to Trump to Tsipras to Jeremy Corbyn


      Let me remind people that Putin’s popularity in Russia is 80% to 85%.

      This compares to Hillary Clinton’s own 35% to 40% favourability rating in the US.

      And 55% unfavourable rating.

    • One Two 11.2

      Andre, move past it

      It’s not the reds under the bed

      The NSA are the world hackers!

      • Andre 11.2.1

        Putin is hardly a red under the bed, he’s one of the finest examples of the 0.001% using whatever means available to screw over everybody else for his own benefit. A perfect fit with Trump.

        • One Two

          Which makes either of them worse than Hillary, bankers [name the establishment], how?

          Andre, your comments don’t make sense and you seem to not identify bullshit when it’s in front of you

          Did you say you were American, or were raised there?

        • Slippery

          Let’s assume for a minute your US conspiracy theory is true, what if like dropping an attomic Bombs was an excuse to put an end to the war & that say if Russia did the hack then the ends justified the means – a bloodless move to avoid WWIII?, Hillary is not the Victim, she used her unsecured personal email server for her corrupt private deeds & for sharing classified information on a vunrable server, a 12yr old could have used A malware bomb that then sends a copy in her name to bypass DNC & Govt emailservers (bypassing security in place), sure she’s a digital native who compromised National Security but is innocent & snowden leaked classified info yet is the traitor? – did I get that right?

  12. adam 12

    Thought this was good, and timely. Also funny.

    • Garibaldi 12.1

      Yes – and our Labour Party hasn’t been left since 1984.Thanks Adam, I love that guy.

  13. Garibaldi 13

    From zerohedge.
    “Hillary Clinton is implicitly running on only two themes…..
    1) Trump is scary. I am not Trump.
    2)Things aren’t really bad. I’ll continue along the path we’ve been on.”
    If this is true then she will lose the election because a large majority think the country is headed in the wrong direction. She should have chosen Bernie !

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