Open mike 26/08/2014

221 comments on “Open mike 26/08/2014 ”

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1. North 1

   26 August 2014 at 6:37 am

   Bring it on soldier !

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11314137

   “Mr Mitchell said the narrative in Dirty Politics was completely false, and he was considering legal action”.
   • Not a PS Staffer 1.1

     26 August 2014 at 8:43 am

     Not a PS Staffer 9.3
     26 October 2013 at 11:06 am
     Mark Mitchell, MP for North Shore, is a former NZ Policeman who..

     “launched an international business career which included the start-up of my own company specialising in hostage rescue, supply chain security and risk management. Working closely with the World Economic Forum, I helped to establish Logistic Emergency Response Teams…. ”
     see http://www.markmitchell.co.nz/mark-mitchell-profile.html

     Mitchell’s father-in-law Frank Gill was a National Party North Shore MP as well as being a minister and ambasador to Washington.
     Mitchell is a well integrated into the National Party real power structures. Mitchell is also well integrated into the Special Services network, the Police and the Intelligence Services.

     Mark Mitchell knew about the Len Brown affair because there was a professional project to displace Len that went beyond the Palino/Slater/Wewege amateurs.
     • Anne 1.1.1

       26 August 2014 at 9:19 am

       Mark Mitchell’s father in law was a leery leech! Followed me around the Debating Chamber gallery many years ago. I was not impressed. Insisted on being called Air Commodore Gill. Struck me as lacking in any intellectual skills. Sounds like Mark Mitchell would have been a fine fit with his father-in-law.
       • Rodel 1.1.1.1

         26 August 2014 at 10:58 am

         I believe in Wellington they called the father in law , ‘Air corridor Gill’ aptly.
         • Once Was Tim 1.1.1.1.1

           26 August 2014 at 1:50 pm

           They did, and for good reason
       • swordfish 1.1.1.2

         26 August 2014 at 1:20 pm

         Gill was unofficial leader of the morally conservative wing of the party during the Muldoon years.
   • Pete 1.2

     26 August 2014 at 8:58 am

     Somebody should explain to him what discovery is
     • North 1.2.1

       26 August 2014 at 9:57 am

       Beautiful Pete ! Mitchell probably reads “Discovery” as some sort of Remuera tractor.
   • Pascals bookie 1.3

     26 August 2014 at 9:17 am

     Mitchell won’t sue Hager. This is just pre-relection deflection. There is nothing stopping him telling his lawyers to get cracking on it right now if he was serious. He is not serious, and like with Collins, this case will not see court.

     There will, I suspect, be other cases that do see court. But not this one.
     • Tracey 1.3.1

       26 August 2014 at 1:44 pm

       Hager has been careful to state things like

       The emails show… And then tells you what the emails said.

       u
2. crocodill 2

   26 August 2014 at 7:07 am

   As a staunch supporter of the Left, I am becoming increasingly concerned about the dangerous gaps in policy.

   Last night I didn’t sleep a wink. Not one party I could call as being from the political Left (Parties that truly care what happens to people) had any mention of one of the most important details of Health and economic development policy on their websites. Over on the Right party sites, they are neck deep in satirical logical fallacies, it’s easy to tell what they really mean, but on the Left, nothing. How would a left coalition government help those in need of Cognitive Dissonance? It’s not 1968 anymore, telling people you’ll do your best if nothing comes up and to put their trust in Good Faith just doesn’t cut it.

   You know what happened the other day? I went to find my car and there was this awful stink. It was so bad I thought I’d run over a hedgehog on the way into work. You know what it was? One of those Street Lifestylers wedged between my front bumper and the pipes running along the wall of the building. It was trying to keep warm no doubt. Well someone paid for that heat and he stole it. Why don’t they just hang out in cafes like everyone else if he’s that bad off. God, I hate people who don’t do what’s right. Had to get the parking attendant to roll it away. Reality is becoming so much more difficult to ignore under successive governments and ignoring my growing unease just isn’t on. The next Left government really needs to act.
3. Paul 3

   26 August 2014 at 7:36 am

   Awful interview by Espiner on RNZ.
   Proof the media will not discuss policies and usual wants to talk polls etc….
   Now we’ve read Dirty Politics, we know the agenda.
   • mickysavage 3.1

     26 August 2014 at 7:46 am

     Yep a shocker.
     • Tigger 3.1.1

       26 August 2014 at 7:55 am

       My only hope now – personal stuff from WhaleDump. The fight has to get dirty to drag them back in.
       • Stephanie Rodgers 3.1.1.1

         26 August 2014 at 8:47 am

         I just don’t know if personal stuff will have impact, or if it devalues the whole project. Hager’s been very careful to stick to the issues which show how the right has been manipulating the media and attacking its opponents, and we’ve already seen blowback like “well aren’t you doing exactly the same thing using hacked emails.”

         If it gets personal it’s much, much easier for the right to brush it off by saying “see, the left are just as bad, this is politics as normal.”
         • Tracey 3.1.1.1.1

           26 August 2014 at 1:48 pm

           given the nats current penchant for using tobacco companies to train some of its young candidates, whaledump on carrick gragam and slater might be edifying for some
       • phillip ure 3.1.1.2

         26 August 2014 at 8:50 am

         @ tigger..

         ..i am wanting to see the extent/depth of the links with mainstream media..

         ..i intend to ask hager about that at his public meeting on wed nite..

         (the other dump i want to see is the slater/ede one..

         ..that’s where it gets taken directly to key..)
   • Olwyn 3.2

     26 August 2014 at 8:39 am

     Unbelievable! This no doubt was his attempt at “balance” after the roasting he gave the PM a week or so ago. But shouting 25% six times in a minute, and saying things like “I put it to you that nobody like you” is not the stuff of tough interviews – it is just a shallow and silly attack.
   • Pete 3.3

     26 August 2014 at 9:06 am

     It’s a gotcha question. If Cunliffe answered “Sure, lots of people like me” he’d sound full of himself, if he said “Not enough like me” he’d sound hopeless. It’s like asking when someone stopped beating their wife.
     • Draco T Bastard 3.3.1

       26 August 2014 at 10:06 am

       I’m pretty sure that Espiner knows exactly what a loaded question is.
       • Tracey 3.3.1.1

         26 August 2014 at 1:52 pm

         did he ask key if he was lying in 2011 or last week?
       • TheContrarian 3.3.1.2

         26 August 2014 at 2:30 pm

         Espiner might but you certainly don’t Draco
4. Belladonna 4

   26 August 2014 at 7:53 am

   I heard that also, quite disgusting. Espiner needs to be looking for another job. Something more suited to his abilities.
   • Ffloyd 4.1

     26 August 2014 at 9:42 am

     He has abilities????
     • Belladonna 4.1.1

       26 August 2014 at 9:46 am

       I did think he could clean toilets but nah, that is an honest job – he wouldn’t be qualified.
5. Awww 5

   26 August 2014 at 8:07 am

   Lots and lots of news articles on The Book today including these two

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/10417726/The-hacker-revealed
   http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/25/dirty-politics-new-zealands-own-house-of-cards-is-collapsing
   • karol 5.1

     26 August 2014 at 8:15 am

     Thanks for the Guardian link. Interesting that the author says it has exposed in NZ, the way politics and the media play out across many countries.
     • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1

       26 August 2014 at 10:16 am

       Without a central leaker, Hager would have no book. He salutes their bravery. “We mustn’t fall for the idea that whistleblowers are doing something wrong. They are the natural reaction to undemocratic government.”

       QFT

       And that, to, is something that the National Party and their sycophants don’t want people to consider. It’s why they parrot the line that things were stolen which is just more of the manipulation that Dirty Politics shows so well.
       • Tracey 5.1.1.1

         26 August 2014 at 1:54 pm

         plus one
     • swordfish 5.1.2

       26 August 2014 at 1:46 pm

       Author of the Guardian article is Antony Loewenstein – one of the Australian Jewish community’s leading and most trenchant critics of Israel. Wrote My Israel Question (an excellent analysis of, amongst other things, the Zionist/”Pro”-Israeli excesses of sections of the Aussie Jewish community – particularly its lobby-groups) and co-founded Independent Australian Jewish Voices. He’s paid a substantial personal price over the years for his courage and integrity.
       • Chooky 5.1.2.1

         26 August 2014 at 8:07 pm

         +100…these decent people give us hope for humanity
   • yeshe 5.2

     26 August 2014 at 9:35 am

     Awww .. thx, the Stuff link has excellent info about Whaledump. So Rawshark it is then, and our hacker does seem to be a man. Interesting comment that his motive, when fully understood, will point directly at him, and only him.

     It’s a must read for many here.

     But OUCH ! comment from someone under the Guardian article ..

     ‘NZ is the new Uruguay – a once prosperous nation now increasingly a relatively impoverished but scenic backwater’ .
   • ianmac 5.3

     26 August 2014 at 9:35 am

     Yes Awww Thanks for the Guardian link. The writer says that the dirty tricks happen all round the world and this expose is very timely. Niky has reached the World. And John Key has plummeted to the bowels of the World.
6. tricledrown 6

   26 August 2014 at 8:11 am

   Mother of dead west coaster Slater defamed said it was most likely one of his friends was most likely the hacker!
   And she was going to sue Camoron Slater!
   • Awww 6.1

     26 August 2014 at 8:21 am

     Any legal action against Slater is cause for celebration!
     • Chooky 6.1.1

       26 August 2014 at 8:08 pm

       +100
   • Enough is Enough 6.2

     26 August 2014 at 8:52 am

     Sue him for what?
     • tricledrown 6.2.1

       26 August 2014 at 9:01 am

       Defamation hope his 3rd strike earns him some time behind bars!
       For the 2x convicted crim!
       • Vinscreen Viper 6.2.1.1

         26 August 2014 at 9:30 am

         Sorry but that wouldn’t run. At Common Law you can’t defame the dead as reputation is a personal right which can only be defended in person.
         • Ffloyd 6.2.1.1.1

           26 August 2014 at 9:44 am

           Didn’t he also abuse her?
           • Vinscreen Viper 6.2.1.1.1.1

             26 August 2014 at 10:10 am

             …

             All I’m aware of is the ‘feral’ comment about the dead man which has been reported in the press. I haven’t looked at Slater’s original remarks as I’d rather sort through used lavatory paper looking for re-usable sheets.

             I’d think it unlikely, though. Establishing defamation is a pretty high bar. Frankly I doubt even Slater’s comment about Judd Hall as ‘feral’ would be legally defamatory in the way that, say, calling him a fraudster or paedophile would be.

             Some folk might even regard it as complimentary.

             (Sorry, reply to tricledrown below.)
             • alwyn …

               26 August 2014 at 11:55 am

               “Some folk might even regard it as complimentary”

               The woman herself, in the morning report interview said as much about the phrase “feral” and said that a lot of people on the coast were quite happy with such a description. I’m not sure whether she specifically included herself in the group but she didn’t seem to find it offensive.
               Surprised me. I would have found it so.
         • tricledrown 6.2.1.1.2

           26 August 2014 at 9:50 am

           Vinscreen Viper is their anything Slater can be charged with!
           Now Key Can’t call this a left wing conspiracy theory anymore!
   • Rosie 6.3

     26 August 2014 at 9:45 am

     There was some speculation amongst a few of us last week about the identity of the hacker and thought it may be a classmate, friend or partner of Judd Hall’s – remember Nicky Hager said the motivation for the hacking wasn’t political.

     Jo(e?) Hall, Judd’s Mum , said she hoped that Key would apologise for his connection with Slater when he visited the West Coast today. I think she might be mistaken, assuming that Key has some scruples.

     Here’s the thing West Coast Tasman voters. In 2011 you gave your party vote to National, with National receiving the highest amount of party votes. On 20th September turn your backs on this party that has done nothing for you and whose leader stood by the one who mocked the death of one of your sons.

     Make “zero party votes for National” your goal in 2014.
     • Chooky 6.3.1

       26 August 2014 at 8:10 pm

       +100
7. xtasy 7

   26 August 2014 at 8:12 am

   Lest we forget, what this present NatACT government has done to us!!!

   While much attention has recently been given to the nasty “black ops” activities by a blogger by the name of Cameron Slater (aka “Whaleoil”) and certain senior staff in the Prime Minister’s Office, same as by Judith Collins and a few others, we must not forget what else happened over recent years, and for what Social Development Minister Paula Bennett has been responsible for. Here is a selection of news and other sources re her nasty “welfare reforms” and her own hypocrisy:

   “Why Paula Bennett Is Not Fit To Be A Minister”, BE Media, 29 July 2009
   http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/07/why-paula-bennett-is-not-fit-to-be-a-minister/

   “Some welfare reforms do breach rights, says Bennett”, NZ Herald, 25 March 2010:
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10634153

   “Social Development Minister Paula Bennett admits that part of her welfare reforms breach the Bill of Rights Act but says it would not bother most people.” “And Attorney-General Chris Finlayson denies he deliberately withheld his report advising that part of the Government’s welfare plans breach the Bill of Rights Act. He puts the delay in its presentation to Parliament as an “administrative error”.”

   “Human Rights Commission comes out against Paula Bennett..”, Tumeke, 20 May 2010
   http://tumeke.blogspot.co.nz/2010/05/human-rights-commission-comes-out.html

   “OPEN LETTER TO: Hon Paula Bennett, Minister Of Social Development and Peseta-Sam Lotu-Liga”, CPAG, 12 April 2012
   http://www.cpag.org.nz/news/open-letter-to-paula-bennett-peseta-sam-lotu/

   Paula Bennett on Wikipedia:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Bennett

   “In July 2009, Bennett released the benefit details of two beneficiaries, Natasha Fuller and Jennifer Johnston, who had criticised the Government’s policy of getting rid of the Training Initiative Allowance (TIA). She said she believed she had “implied consent” for the release of the information.” “There has also been considerable criticism of Bennett for abolishing the TIA. Both Fuller and Labour MP Charles Chauvel said that they would make complaints to the privacy commissioner and Schroff, respectively.”

   “The Privacy Commission investigated Bennett’s actions after receiving a complaint. In late 2010, Privacy Commissioner Marie Shroff closed her investigation into the privacy complaint and referred the matter to the Director of Human Rights Proceedings for the Human Rights Commission, Robert Hesketh. On 15 August 2012, Hesketh announced the resolution of the complaint under the Privacy Act against Bennett, saying, “On the basis of the Minister’s letter to me, I have agreed to close my file. The matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of all parties.”[30] In her letter to Hesketh, Bennett wrote: “I have on previous occasions expressed to you through my counsel and to Ms Fuller, when I met with her in person, my regret at the personal cost that this incident has caused Ms Fuller. The purpose of this letter is to formally convey that.”

   “As you know, I took the view that it was appropriate for me to respond to some of Ms Fuller’s comments in order to provide what I considered to be information relevant to the public debate that was taking place at the time. I acknowledge that you consider that I was wrong to do so and that this resulted in a breach of Ms Fuller’s privacy.” “As you also know, I do not accept that view.”

   Other reports:
   “The Achilles Heel of National’s welfare reforms”, CPAG, 02 March 2012
   http://www.cpag.org.nz/topics/social-security/

   “Welfare group warns thousands will suffer after changes”, NZ Herald, 15 July 2013
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10898243

   “Welfare now has health warning”, NZ Herald, 16 July 2013
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10898616

   “Job hunting replaces focus on welfare benefits”, NZ Herald, 16 July 2013
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10898601

   “Welfare Reform – New Zealand Association of Social Workers”, 19 July 2013
   http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1307/S00237/welfare-reform-new-zealand-association-of-social-workers.htm

   Some of the results we know about:
   “Record numbers struggling to make ends meet”, 04 Nov. 2013
   http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/article/?id=34699

   “Don’t copy our welfare cuts, New Zealand experts warn Australia”, The Guardian, 03 June 2014
   http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/03/dont-copy-our-welfare-cuts-new-zealand-experts-warn-australia

   “How is Government evaluating its welfare reforms, and why aren’t we allowed to know?”, M. Fletcher, Public Address, 29 June 2014
   http://publicaddress.net/speaker/how-is-government-evaluating-its-welfare/

   VOTE WISELY on 20 September 2014!
   • Chooky 7.1

     26 August 2014 at 8:11 pm

     @ xtasy….which Left party are you voting for ?…and why?…because this may affect my vote ie I may vote the way you suggest
     • xtasy 7.1.1

       26 August 2014 at 10:33 pm

       Chooky, I am most likely to give the Greens my party vote, although I cannot agree with some of their policies. They do though seem to offer the best deal to those dependent on WINZ, and actually want to bring in a kind of universal basic income, by replacing the present Social Security Act with new law. That basic income would be topped up, and it seems they are prepared to ensure people get enough to live from, whether they care for children, are disabled, studying or whatever else.

       See their policy:
       https://home.greens.org.nz/
       https://home.greens.org.nz/policy/income-support-policy
       https://home.greens.org.nz/policylist
       https://home.greens.org.nz/policysummary/disability-policy-summary

       Like with all parties, they list much aspirational stuff, but I trust them more than Labour, certainly when it comes to social security. Question will be how much they can push for when negotiating with Labour to form a government, but I have reservations re Internet Mana, as they will most likely not be such an important player, and may not even be needed for a government. Also I have some concerns about Dotcom’s involvement, and how many in the public perceive them.

       Labour have got some interesting social policy too now, but they really do much more for those able to work, and in some ways they seem only moderately caring for the unemployed sick and disabled. Work is their mantra for many social ills, a bit like the National Party, just not as unfair and harsh.

       But take a look at all left of centre parties’ policies, I just stated my thoughts.
       • Chooky 7.1.1.1

         26 August 2014 at 10:52 pm

         @xtasy…thanks!….that is good to hear about the Greens because i was going to Party vote for them anyway …you just confirm my intended vote ..I have a brother with a handicap and who is on a disability benefit….so i will make sure that he knows your arguments and research too… Generally he votes Labour…but he may like to consider the Greens this time.

         Maybe you could turn this into a Post?….so a lot more people get to see your research, arguments and hear your perspective on this very important party policy issue.
         • xtasy 7.1.1.1.1

           26 August 2014 at 11:03 pm

           I am not going to turn stuff into a post, although this “comment” above is the size of one. Over the coming days and weeks I will present a bit more of stuff that I have saved, that I can find by Google search, and that will remind people of what the Nats under Key and Bennett have done to harm and harass so many.

           I will also endeavour to present a bit more on Dr Bratt and so forth. A few good comments on Open Mike will be read by many, I am sure.
           • Chooky 7.1.1.1.1.1

             26 August 2014 at 11:11 pm

             well i think many beneficiaries and those who support them do need some guidance on which parties have the BEST policies for them and why….or at least a personal perspective from the coal face to spark off their thinking on which party to vote for

             ….you could always maybe circulate it in a post on the Daily Blog as well?
8. Awww 8

   26 August 2014 at 8:20 am

   Just placed a reserve on Dirty Politics at the library. I am number 63 in the queue and there are 10 copies available for loan….so much for the public not being interested.
   • Belladonna 8.1

     26 August 2014 at 8:36 am

     I ordered it from my library and was no. 320 in the queue. Let’s hope a lot of undecided voters read the book and vote accordingly.
     • yeshe 8.1.1

       26 August 2014 at 9:40 am

       you can maybe ask on here for a loan copy from someone .. I can’t help as I have the kindle version on my computer. but asking is worth a try. (And to maintain mutual anonymity, make a new gmail account and post it for someone to contact you. I did it when book first came out, and had it all arranged .. but then ebook was available.)

       #320 is a long way down and the election is close !
       • Rosie 8.1.1.1

         26 August 2014 at 9:53 am

         Good idea yeshe. We could have a Standardista Dirty Politics library. I’m in Wellington and more than happy to lend my copy. This book is essential reading for all NZer’s of any political colour. (principled National voters would be disgusted at the depths their party has sunk to)

         I can’t afford to buy books these days (my days collecting of books came to an abrupt end when financial circumstances changed!) but used the grocery money to get my copy. Well worth having baked beans on toast two meals in a row as a consequence!
         • yeshe 8.1.1.1.1

           26 August 2014 at 10:35 am

           😀 @rosie

           and did you see the Stuff link at #5 ? most interesting indeed from the whaledump hacker.
           • Rosie 8.1.1.1.1.1

             26 August 2014 at 11:45 am

             Yes! Rawshark! So just playing catch up, the hacker and whaledump are the same person?

             Great Guardian article too, from Awww’s link.
             • yeshe …

               26 August 2014 at 1:11 pm

               maybe not the same person, but same intent !! And more ….

               I see the Pike River families are planning a silent protest at Key this afternoon with Jo Hall ( Judd’s mother) hopeful of an apology from Key .. well, at least she’s going to make it plain it is what she expects.

               (oops .. just saw your previous post on same subject, sorry)
         • anker 8.1.1.1.2

           26 August 2014 at 10:47 am

           Happy to loan out my copy too.

           Any thoughts how we could make this work? I am in Wellington.

           Anyone who would like to read it, message me and maybe we can arrange a meeting point.
           • yeshe 8.1.1.1.2.1

             26 August 2014 at 10:54 am

             What I did last week — I created a new gmail account, with a family name .. then I posted that email addy on here for the poster to contact me, which he did. I don’t know if his name was real or not ! Good luck …
             • Kiwiri …

               26 August 2014 at 11:07 am

               How about creating Standardista Virtual Library Hubs? That way we can get copies to each other, and save money by minimising on the postage.
             • outofbed …

               26 August 2014 at 6:45 pm

               yes it was
               • yeshe …

                 26 August 2014 at 7:25 pm

                 😀 thanks again …
           • Rosie 8.1.1.1.2.2

             26 August 2014 at 11:56 am

             I’d suggest, if it were ok with Lynn, that if a person requested to borrow a book, that Lynn could forward the “issuer’s” email address to the “borrower”. This would perhaps mean there would a be a list on this site with commenters/issuers and their areas, that borrowers could select from. Borrower x see’s that issuer y in Tauranga has a copy of The Book they can lend. They get in touch via email and arrange collection or postage.

             There needs to be an element of trust in doing this, but I feel more comfortable with option than yeshe’s one below. (Could you get spammed by crazies?)

             Depends on whether Lynn and or authors have the time to muck around supplying emails.
             • lprent …

               26 August 2014 at 12:54 pm

               There is a problem with the privacy policy. I will have a look around for a private messaging facility for the site.
               • Rosie …

                 26 August 2014 at 1:07 pm

                 Oh yes, I see. Thank you.
                 • yeshe …

                   26 August 2014 at 1:13 pm

                   much better than my idea which worked solely as a one off ! Thanks Lynn.
             • nadis …

               26 August 2014 at 1:12 pm

               or you could just strip out the DRM form a purchased copy from amazon and share that, takes less than 3 minutes to do. After all, information should be free and copyright is an outdated concept enforced by the fascist lackeys of corporates. If it wasn’t against the law (and I respect the property rights of the Standard), I’d a post a link to it here. Wouldn’t surprise me however if its not already on Mega.
               • yeshe …

                 26 August 2014 at 1:16 pm

                 nadis, nadis, nadis. oh dear.
               • weka …

                 26 August 2014 at 10:08 pm

                 “or you could just strip out the DRM form a purchased copy from amazon and share that, takes less than 3 minutes to do.”

                 How? I had a look online simply so I could open the book in something other than kindle which doesn’t support page numbering (doh!). The couple of online and download apps I tried couldn’t rip the book.
         • outofbed 8.1.1.1.3

           26 August 2014 at 6:44 pm

           I have a copy for loan
       • AnnetteH 8.1.1.2

         26 August 2014 at 4:58 pm

         I have said I would never again post on TS, but in this case, I’m willing to make an exception. I will lend my copy. Contact me at “borrowdp [at] hmamail.com”
     • Ffloyd 8.1.2

       26 August 2014 at 9:45 am

       Maybe you can borrow key’s copy?
       • yeshe 8.1.2.1

         26 August 2014 at 10:38 am

         well it would be brand new and untouched by human hand !!
     • alwyn 8.1.3

       26 August 2014 at 11:58 am

       How long does your library loan books for? I would assume that it is a week so only 3 more people will get each book before the election.
       I imagine the number on the list will go to zero on 21 September.
9. Ffloyd 9

   26 August 2014 at 8:21 am

   Didn’t hear it but heard my husband abusing the radio when he heard it. Didn’t blame him when he told me about guyons incisive, in depth interview of Cumliffe. I think DC should just send ‘The Office’ next time. Trying to get a decent interview from guyon is just a waste of time for David. Who says to ANYONE “I put it to you that nobody likes you” Well guyon, you are universally disliked , you could be better but you choose daily to show yourself up as a biased, boring lazy interviewer. And your voice is barely distinguishable from Susie’s
10. Rich 10

    26 August 2014 at 8:39 am

    Nothing terribly surprises me anymore, but I have to admit that the NZ Herald is challenging that.

    Today in the Herald there’s two puff pieces on National and none on Labour. Worse we get this in one of the puff pieces on National;

    “National has goodies in reserve
    Labour is reaching the bottom of the pork barrel with its remaining election campaign spending promises curbed by Treasury’s forecasts last week of lower tax take.”

    That’s the bit that everybody sees on the website.

    The other puff piece, and the bit that everybody sees is;

    “Housing plan: Winners and losers
    National’s proposed home loan subsidies could help many young people into their first homes – although experts warn that the extra money will also push up house price”

    Labour’s budget is presented as an ‘alternative’ budget.

    There’s a story in the Money section titled;

    “How to “Labour-proof” your portfolio”.

    I cannot see how it is possible to maintain a democracy under these conditions.
    • grumpystilskin 10.1

      26 August 2014 at 8:58 am

      “I cannot see how it is possible to maintain a democracy under these conditions.”
      Only the illusion of democracy remains, soon as you understand that it makes sense.
      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 10:23 am

        +1

        The 4th Labour government sold our democracy out to neo-liberalism and a return to feudalism.
      • left for dead 10.1.2

        26 August 2014 at 11:49 am

        Modern democracy,is just the freedom to do as you are told.re read (Secrets,Lies and Democracy)Noam Chomsky
        • left for dead 10.1.2.1

          26 August 2014 at 11:50 am

          I’ll loan a copy to the standard library.
11. phillip ure 11

    26 August 2014 at 8:56 am

    do i have to say/point out again what a rightwing-toad/dweeb rawdon christie is..?
    • North 11.1

      26 August 2014 at 9:54 am

      Rawdie’s bloody thick as well. Just not up to it. Watch the uneasy pause, the shamble, the momentary ‘just sucked a lemon’ mouth when he gets a challenging response to whatever facile question/assertion he’s put/made.

      Followed by eyes averted, semi-smile recovery. “W-e-e-l-l-l-l……nevertheless……”
      • phillip ure 11.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 10:13 am

        he’s like that person who stands right behind the bully…

        ..remove the bully..he squeals and runs away…
12. felix 12

    26 August 2014 at 9:02 am

    Anyone catch that clip on telly this weekend where Slater said he would be involved in politics long after Key had left the scene?

    And in a moment of supreme zen weirdness he said he had “met and dealt with” every PM from Muldoon onward?

    How old is he? 40? If so, he reckons he was dealing with Muldoon when he was 10, and with Lange when he was 11. And he goes on telly and squints into the camera and says this as if it’s real.

    Jesus, this is the fucking spoon Key got to help him run the country.
    • karol 12.1

      26 August 2014 at 9:10 am

      Slater is 43.

      Some bold claims there at the link. Well, I guess he never had to put them into practice because he wasn’t voted in.
      • felix 12.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 7:44 pm

        Conflicts of Interest
        Nil disclosed

        Bit rich, eh? Lied about his address, too.
    • TheContrarian 12.2

      26 August 2014 at 9:23 am

      “And in a moment of supreme zen weirdness he said he had “met and dealt with” every PM from Muldoon onward?”

      He may not referring to dealing PM’s while they were still in office. Which would still probably discount Muldoon.
      • felix 12.2.1

        26 August 2014 at 7:41 pm

        I don’t doubt that a few important figures patted him on the head as a child, but “dealt with”, that’s just lolzworthy.

        He deals with Key. We know this to be true.

        I suspect he has had dealings with Shipley, as she is an important part of the cartel that Key and Collins are involved in. All post-PM though.

        I can’t think of any other PM who would be likely to give him the time of day, in or out of office.
    • tricledrown 12.3

      26 August 2014 at 9:39 am

      Remember his father was the president of the National party for years so dinner party’s bbq’s etc no doubt Camoron would have met and been influenced by National Party insiders he is a credit to all of them!
      • Anne 12.3.1

        26 August 2014 at 8:00 pm

        Prior to becoming the Nat Party president, he was the chairman of the all important Auckland National Division going back to the 1970s. Wee Cameron would have been the recipient of a lot of head patting from National Party senior figures as he grew up. Perhaps his head sustained a bit of damage in the process.
13. North 13

    26 August 2014 at 9:06 am

    Doesn’t take Guyon long to revert to type, viz. snooty little clipped-tones toff, barely suppressing the alter ego of ‘Headmaster GodKey’ sans smirk lurking within. Michelle-Boag-on-steroids Ferguson equally unfit for RNZ Morning Report.

    How unartful are these media lads and lassies when the only route to the guts of matters is their anger at being personally affronted ? As for example the “Is it OK ?” episode Guyon with TheGodKey last week.
    • Tiger Mountain 13.1

      26 August 2014 at 9:24 am

      no, Guyon is not ok, ever
      • phillip ure 13.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 10:10 am

        never has been..
    • CnrJoe 13.2

      26 August 2014 at 9:26 am

      Still had my heart thumping that did. Is it ok? Is it ok? Is it ok?
      25% 25% 25% 25% – not so much
14. just saying 14

    26 August 2014 at 9:44 am

    An outstanding blog by Giovanni Tiso this morning.
    I would have left a message congratulating him, but couldn’t figure out the new comments configuration on his site. So I’ll say it here: Bravo!

    http://bat-bean-beam.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/the-jane-clifton-continuum.html
    • phillip ure 14.1

      26 August 2014 at 9:55 am

      really..?..he is a defender of josie pagani..?

      ..you like that..?
      • just saying 14.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 9:58 am

        Read it again.
        • phillip ure 14.1.1.1

          26 August 2014 at 10:04 am

          no thanks..
          • joe90 14.1.1.1.1

            26 August 2014 at 10:26 am

            You should.
            /

            Posted by Giovanni Tiso at 11:59 PM ShareThis
            Labels: Interpolations, satire
            • RedLogix 14.1.1.1.1.1

              26 August 2014 at 10:31 am

              Yes – quite subtle satire at that.

              (Will confess to having to read it several times …)
              • just saying …

                26 August 2014 at 11:29 am

                Just shows how inured we are to these kinds of arguments.

                My particular bugbear is the false equivalence arguments where some nobody getting kicked unconscious in a gutter equals one Person Who Matters feeling insulted by a criticism about their behaviour. And we see these kinds of false equivalences and unequal treatment according to status all the time in the media because the bias it reflects is so ingrained – in a large part by the media itself in an obscene vicious circle with public opinion.

                A beneficiary is vilified for not being able to make ends meet on a benefit set at a rate which makes doing so impossible, while in the same issue of the paper a Remuera couple who lost money in a collapsed finance company gets a sympathy piece and their “give a little” page which is up to $50,000 of donations is advertised because they might have to sell their house and buy something more affordable.

                And who has been deliberately creating and maintaining these circles?
                • Olwyn …

                  26 August 2014 at 11:57 am

                  I agree, and this election has shown up the assumptions associated with inequality like no other. A National Party ad that verges on self parody, and could almost double as an ad for a posh private school. The hounding and demeaning of every representative on the left, while the PM, who really is accountable, is allowed to alter the meaning of words, and refuse to answer questions with impunity. Debate seems to have descended to the level of sixth form bitchery with the “aspirational” dominating the common room and the remainder cast as flea-bags. I am all but waiting for some lip-glossed, right leaning, TV presenter to shout, “You can’t say that to me, because I’m a TV presenter and I’m beautiful!”
    • Ad 14.2

      26 August 2014 at 12:13 pm

      Most complete sardonic riff I’ve seen since dealing with a teenage daughter.

      Excellent work Tiso.
15. phillip ure 15

    26 August 2014 at 9:45 am

    just found this…it is very cool..!

    ..a simple online way to make yr own gifs..

    ..you just have to upload a pic..

    ..i am looking forward to some good key/slater ones from you all..

    http://www.wired.com/2014/08/revist-link/
16. joe90 16

    26 August 2014 at 9:57 am

    Dame Anne Salmond: Royal commission of inquiry needed to clean up NZ’s dirty politics.

    .

    The Dirty Politics saga cuts to the heart of political life in New Zealand. Over the past 10 years there has been an insidious shift in the way that government works, with increasingly autocratic, arrogant ministers taking away the levers of power from citizens and civil servants.

    The independence of the civil service has been eroded, with ministers routinely interfering in operational decisions. Last year, the Law Society felt impelled to report to the United Nations that Parliament had been used to pass a succession of acts that strip away rights, freedoms and protections from citizens, in breach of the Bill of Rights. Ministerial accountability has become a farce.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11314367
17. Puckish Rogue 17

    26 August 2014 at 10:16 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/60852283/French-government-resigns-PM-to-form-new-government

    • Another socialist government down the toilet, at least we have centrist in NZ
    • Bearded Git 17.1

      26 August 2014 at 10:45 am

      Centrist? Has the election already happened and Key been turfed out while I was in the shower?

      You seem to have fallen for Whalesludge’s spin Puckish.
      • Puckish Rogue 17.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 11:53 am

        Oh please Keys center right at best (Labour-lite at worst)
        • Draco T Bastard 17.1.1.1

          26 August 2014 at 12:03 pm

          Key is radical RWJN and what he really wants is a return to feudalism as proven by his sales of our assets against our will.
          • Puckish Rogue 17.1.1.1.1

            26 August 2014 at 12:26 pm

            Lets see, John Key didn’t sell any assets as the controlling share is still held by the government whereas Labour sold 100% of the assets (and also a lot more then National ever did)

            National strengthened the overseas investment rules (which were woeful under Labour) and yes more land was sold under Labour then has been sold under National

            Also hes stated no more asset sales this term, its still legal to join a union and promoting free healthcare to under 13s

            Yes hes a RWNJ and wants us to return to feudalism
            • Draco T Bastard 17.1.1.1.1.1

              26 August 2014 at 7:17 pm

              1. Do we still own 100% of our power stations? No? Assets sold. And, due to the laws in NZ that prevent the majority shareholder from doing anything to decrease returns to minor shareholders means that we no longer have any control either
              2. Chances are National only did that because knew that they wouldn’t get away with doing what they actually wanted.
              3. Which means he’ll just sell them next term
              4. Yep, that’s what selling state assets is.
              • Herodotus …

                26 August 2014 at 7:32 pm

                Dear DTB and labour are going to sell housing nz land as part of kiwibuild. Funny how it is ok to sell nz state assets when we do it. A great opportunity lost as the land could be better used IMHO for new state houses. Then we have today in the herald 40m2 houses on 119m2 sections at a bargin $339k , is this what affordable housing has become we the voter should be demanding that state land esp within Auckland be used to build state houses, and also help to reduce the govt housing subsidy paid to land lords.
                • Murray Olsen …

                  27 August 2014 at 2:04 am

                  I don’t think it’s OK at all. I’m not impressed one bit by Labour’s housing policy. We need more state houses, and for many reasons. A good building program would provide training, employment, push prices down and have a follow on effect on private rents.
      • adam 17.1.2

        26 August 2014 at 11:57 am

        PR can’t tell what is right or wrong any more Bearded Git. He just makes assumptions and expects people to worship him.
    • Draco T Bastard 17.2

      26 August 2014 at 12:01 pm

      Just capitalism, in general, collapsing.

      And in a few weeks we’ll be able to say See, another conservative government down the toilet.
18. Bearded Git 18

    26 August 2014 at 10:16 am

    And Dirty Politics continues to erode National’s credibility here:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11314137
    • Bearded Git 18.1

      26 August 2014 at 10:56 am

      More than a third of voters may change their vote over Dirty Politics. Game changer.

      “The shadow of ‘Dirty Politics’ still hangs over the campaign. John Key is not answering questions about the book on the trail anymore. He is trying to draw a line under it in the hope it has not damaged his and National’s position too badly. National’s internal polling is said to show the book’s revelations are not resonating with the public.
      However, TVNZ’s Vote Compass survey found the book had affected 36% of the 13,913 voters who took the online poll, who said it may change their vote to varying degrees”

      And on another issue National is on the wrong side of:

      “A 3News Reid Research poll released last night showed 77% of voters believed there should be stricter controls on foreign ownership and 20% said there should not be stricter controls”

      Read about both issues here:

      http://www.interest.co.nz/news/71637/poll-shows-most-want-foreign-buying-limits-survey-finds-over-third-say-dirty-politics-wil
      • yeshe 18.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 11:17 am

        my favourite from the link .. thx BG .. good to be reminded this is all we need …

        “The knife-edge nature of the electoral mathematics of MMP mean a loss of 2-3% support from National would be enough to put its re-election in doubt, and it is already going into the election with opinion poll support around 2-3% lower than in the lead-up to the 2011 election, which it won by less than 10,000 votes.”

        And what a bloody costly 10,000 votes.
      • tricledrown 18.1.2

        27 August 2014 at 12:26 am

        Key cannot blame it on left wing conspiracy theorists any more!
        Cameron Slater and Conman Key have to take Personal Responsibility for their self made mess!
        Key can’t even blame dotcom!
        Key is now trying to mumble his way round the massive mess of his own creation!
        Key sounds like a lying little school boy!
19. Enough is Enough 19

    26 August 2014 at 10:29 am

    I see DPF is having a wee cry about nasty song written about his idol.

    Diddums.

    If you declare a war on the poor this is what you should expect to receive.
    • Rosie 19.1

      26 August 2014 at 10:34 am

      Which particular song? There’s quite a few anti Key songs!
      • Enough is Enough 19.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 10:43 am

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10422676/Song-threatens-to-kill-Key
        • Rosie 19.1.1.1

          26 August 2014 at 11:31 am

          Whoa! Didn’t know this one. There’s no mincing of words there. A bit edgy, I must admit but then again they weren’t” listened to” in 2011 (Listen to us) so the resentment edged up another notch. What does Farrar expect, the boys choir praising Key?

          Excellent bass line. Quite uncomfortable with the threatening reference to fucking Key’s daughter though.

          http://www.undertheradar.co.nz/news/8630/Listen-Peace—Kill-The-PM.utr
          • Peter Matthews 19.1.1.1.1

            26 August 2014 at 11:54 am

            Does that mean you are comfortable with the threatening reference to killing him? Political leanings aside, surely this is nothing but unacceptable?
            • Rosie 19.1.1.1.1.1

              26 August 2014 at 12:13 pm

              It’s a bit shocking Peter but then again a) it’s not going to happen b)I’ve listened to music all my life so am familiar with violent anti authority expressions and c) this view sums up my sentiments perfectly:

              “………….. I don’t have to like it. I understand why its happening. When your suppress people and their voice it breaks through and it is not pretty as it would have been if you let them have a say in the first place.”

              • anker @24 11.16am

              My main concern is with Key’s daughter being threatened. She has nothing to do with the running of the country and the threat sounds rather rapey to me. Myself I don’t like or dislike the lyrics (but like the melody) but I wouldn’t play it when people are around at my house, even guests that feel just as angry towards Key as @peace do.
              • adam …

                26 August 2014 at 1:01 pm

                I’ve listened a few times, and I agree Rosie that bit about Key’s daughter shocked me. Then listening through a few times, I think it’s a bragging attempt, and a pick up line – sad I know. It’s not that unusual for hip-hop artist – to do these brags. I think they deliberately made this section of the song shocking, but he does a vocal twist at end – to introduce himself and make it apparent who he talking to.

                That said, they use shock a lot in their songs, and sexist language. Here for the other tunes.

                http://www.atpeace.co.nz/#hear
              • adam …

                26 August 2014 at 2:14 pm

                @peace comment on Facebook.

                *Now that I have your attention, may I remind you that

                130,000 ELIGIBLE PEOPLE UNDER 25 HAVE NOT YET ENROLLED.

                The current PM does not care about these people. He does not care about the growing gap between the rich and the poor in our country. He does not care about the native people of our country. He does not care about the planet we depend upon to survive, the living organism that we as humans are a functioning part of. He does not care about the right we should all have to an education. He only cares about him and his friends.

                I do not want to literally kill this man. I do not wish to have sexual relations with anybody related to him. Let’s not pretend a silly little song ever changed anything. Last I seen famine was still going pretty strong since ‘Heal The World’ came out. It’s just a song. No different from Thatcher era punk. Anyone ever heard “Maggie you’re a cunt”..?

                What’s important is that we ENROL TO VOTE so that we have a chance to select someone to represent us who understands the concept of empathy.

                I’m fed up with this dude. But if you want to vote for him, that’s your choice. Personally, I’m voting Greens but you can vote for whoever you like. You can choose between a whole bunch of different people who represent a whole bunch of different ideologies. That’s the beauty of the political system in NZ.

                Please respect my right to express my disappointment for the leader of our country.*

                Read more: http://www.undertheradar.co.nz/news/8630/Listen-Peace—Kill-The-PM.utr#ixzz3BSbNh9A2
                • Rosie …

                  26 August 2014 at 3:59 pm

                  Thats a well written statement. Clarifies the violent intent (none) and expands on the message.

                  I get what you’re saying adam re the boasting/ bragging and have heard it plenty of times in songs. Get’s a bit eye rolly though, as a woman hearing it. Thanks for sharing other tunes. I’ve made a mental note to have a listen when I get a chance.
                  • Puckish Rogue …

                    26 August 2014 at 4:08 pm

                    Amazing what you can convince yourself of when you really, really want to
                    • Rosie …

                      26 August 2014 at 4:25 pm

                      🙄
    • Puckish Rogue 19.2

      26 August 2014 at 11:55 am

      “If you declare a war on the poor this is what you should expect to receive.”

      • and you can justify any action as long as you make up an excuse for it
      • Enough is Enough 19.2.1

        26 August 2014 at 12:00 pm

        If I poke you in the eye repeatedly for 6 years then yeah I will expect you to turn around and say something nasty to me
        • nadis 19.2.1.1

          26 August 2014 at 12:22 pm

          [deleted]

          [lprent: Too far. Read the policy again. ]
          • Puckish Rogue 19.2.1.1.1

            26 August 2014 at 12:45 pm

            ?
          • nadis 19.2.1.1.2

            26 August 2014 at 1:15 pm

            Why too far? It was just a metaphor for what I think Laila Harre’s policies will do to my small business.

            Will you also delete any links on this site to the song? Or can I put a link here to the comment I have made hosted elsewhere?
            • adam 19.2.1.1.2.1

              26 August 2014 at 1:35 pm

              I run a small business and none of the IMP policies worry me at all. I’m more worried about the mismanagement by national and the old boys clubs with infest national, and some could say labour.

              This is not capitalism, in capitalism you got to take the hits and gains. The highs and the lows. This is profit taking and a mad rush to get the last of the resources.
              • Rich …

                26 August 2014 at 1:38 pm

                Ditto. I don’t know why any small business owner would ever vote for National and that includes any family farmers that may be left.
                • Colonial Viper …

                  26 August 2014 at 2:37 pm

                  Yep. It seems the Left have a bit of impression management and communication to the small business sector catch up with. Policies which make the life of small business owners simpler and give our customers more disposable income is all good for SMEs.
                • Puckish Rogue …

                  26 August 2014 at 2:49 pm

                  Because more then likely the Greens would come in as well and the Greens are wanting to implement more costs over water rights so why would farmers vote for more costs?
                  • thatguynz …

                    26 August 2014 at 4:11 pm

                    Why would we vote to subsidise the costs that the farmers incur?
                    • Puckish Rogue …

                      26 August 2014 at 4:15 pm

                      Not the question asked
                    • adam …

                      26 August 2014 at 4:20 pm

                      PR you bugger all/never answer questions – so it’s a bit rich for you to say that.
                    • Rich …

                      26 August 2014 at 9:37 pm

                      I don’t think it’s really helpful to label all farmers along those lines.
                  • dv …

                    26 August 2014 at 4:40 pm

                    PR

                    Current debt
                    86,024,914,094

                    Current Interest bill (@2%)
                    1,720,497,995
                  • Draco T Bastard …

                    26 August 2014 at 7:23 pm

                    Because they keep going on about user pays and personal responsibility.

                    Unless you’re accusing them of being hypocrites that is.
                  • Rich …

                    26 August 2014 at 9:36 pm

                    The Greens need to be listened to along with everyone else. They after all represent a larger % of the electorate than National do.
20. dv 20

    26 August 2014 at 10:51 am

    Interesting From NBR
    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/assange-help-dotcom-drop-his-sept-15-bombshell-key-ck-161400

    Kim Dotcom has told OneNews the big international name who will play a role in the bombshell he’ll drop on the prime minister: WikiLeaks founder and fugitive Julian Assange, who’s holed up in Ecuador’s London embassy, is set to take part in a pre-election attack on John Key.

    “I can give you a hint. Someone who is currently locked up in an embassy might be on a live video link,” Mr Dotcom said.

    Mr Dotcom had warned something big will come out on September 15, just five days from the election.

    He has already hired journalist Glen Greenwald, who made public the Edward Snowdon leaks. Now the addition of Mr Assange confirms the September 15 event will be about New Zealand’s spying.

    Asked will September 15 do more damage to Mr Key than the Dirty Politics book has, Mr Dotcom told OneNews: “I think so.”
    • Bearded Git 20.1

      26 August 2014 at 10:59 am

      Nice post dv. Well this and Dirty Politics (see my post above) should see Key spending much more time at his Hawaii mansion in the near future.
      • Rich 20.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 11:32 am

        I’d prefer if we organised his accommodation.
        • Kiwiri 20.1.1.1

          26 August 2014 at 11:35 am

          And perhaps a direct message will be read out from Edward Snowden?
        • Colonial Viper 20.1.1.2

          26 August 2014 at 2:19 pm

          lol, at Her Majesty’s pleasure
    • weka 20.2

      26 August 2014 at 10:24 pm

      KDC said that thing during the IMP launch about how he didn’t like the German PM so hacked his credit rating to zero, and there is another PM he doesn’t like. Makes me uncomfortable, when he talks about what he wants and likes etc, instead of talking about the general good. Still too much ego and I’m just glad he’s not gunning for someone on the left (this could just as easily be about a Labour govt as a NACT one).
      • RedLogix 20.2.1

        26 August 2014 at 10:31 pm

        While I understand how KDC’s actions fall outside of healthy political action – it’s also why IMP is the dark horse in this election.

        Increasingly young people are no longer interested in conventionally sanctioned political actions. They increasingly see the entire system as compromised at best – irredeemably corrupted at worst.

        For them this kind of direct action, redolent of the “V” and “Anonymous” memes, holds far more appeal.
        • weka 20.2.1.1

          26 August 2014 at 10:44 pm

          Agreed, IMP are effective in what they do. I think I will just keep expressing my discomfit about KDC himself, because as bad as things are now we still have many good things to lose.

          Am also getting sick of the whole “we’re fucked” as youth slogan thing. We do have choices, and more choices this election than ever. I really wish people would get over the idea that voting is about getting what one wants. It’s not, it’s about moving us towards a better place, or even just a place where it’s easier to do the real work of effecting change. I’ve never been able to vote for a party that represents me well, but that hasn’t stopped me from seeing the value in voting. All power to IMP, I hope they do really well, but I still think that we should be encouraging people to vote because it’s a form of power irrespective of whether there is a cool party to vote for or not (and it’s not like back in the FPP dark ages when I would have had to be voting Labour at this point 😉
          • RedLogix 20.2.1.1.1

            26 August 2014 at 10:52 pm

            Yeah – and it’s worth keeping in mind that a lot of real change comes from radicals outside of the system who over time learn to work effectively within it.

            On the other hand the “we’re fucked” thing will need to find a legitimate political outlet sooner or later. Preferably sooner – and if KDC is the vehicle then so be it. No-one else seems to have put their hand up.
            • Colonial Viper 20.2.1.1.1.1

              26 August 2014 at 11:12 pm

              Yeah – and it’s worth keeping in mind that a lot of real change comes from radicals outside of the system who over time learn to work effectively within it.

              or alternatively, pressure from radicals and mass movements which choose to never compromise sufficiently to become part of the establishment – but who by doing so effectively force those within the establishment to take those radical viewpoints into account. A historical example of this was FDR’s New Deal. Without massive pressure from workers and socialist movements – including riots and dozens of strikers killed – FDR would never have passed the New Deal. As a conciliatory figure trying to protect the future of capitalism, he had to.
21. yeshe 21

    26 August 2014 at 11:00 am

    Update on TPPA meetings through the country … so vital to our survival.

    http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=2af728ed394d2e3c92f383cd5&id=9a51057c49&e=0663fc3518
    • Kiwiri 21.1

      26 August 2014 at 11:08 am

      Thanks. This deserves a post of its own asap to let many others know.
      • yeshe 21.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 11:34 am

        @LPrent please ? thx
        • Kiwiri 21.1.1.1

          26 August 2014 at 12:03 pm

          Can include also the fact that TPPA is another attempt at resurrecting the MAI that was roundly rejected back in 1998. Laila Harre has pointed out to the role of online opposition in defeating the MAI and we can do it again [on video online that I viewed recently and I would be happy if someone can find it].

          Worth referring to Bryan Gould’s piece in December last year which refers to the MAI-TPPA connection:

          “Speak up – we can resist the powerful”
          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11167682

          And this from:
          http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/33828/resisting-multilateralism

          “Part of a protest march moves through Wellington in 1998, on its way to Parliament. The Multilateral Agreement on Investment (MAI) was proposed by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), of which New Zealand is a member. The MAI was intended to provide a framework for international investment based on highly liberalised national investment controls and improved investment protection, with effective dispute settlement procedures, open to non-OECD countries. The proposal provoked vehement opposition internationally. Those opposed argued the MAI favoured big business and was being imposed without adequate consultation. In the end, the initiative collapsed.”
          • greywarbler 21.1.1.1.1

            26 August 2014 at 10:38 pm

            Thanks Kiwiri for bringing those links forward.
22. anker 22

    26 August 2014 at 11:02 am

    EiE @19.1.1. Don’t like the song. Not the way to go.

    On another note did anyone see, has anyone noticed David Fisher, about his relationship with Slater. Don’t have the link at hand. I wonder how many more we are going to see like this coming out of the word work.
    • Enough is Enough 22.1

      26 August 2014 at 11:06 am

      You don’t have to like it. It is mildly distasteful. However it a direct consequence of Key’s war on the poor.

      Key and DPF can’t behave like they do and then cry when these things happen.
      • Peter Matthews 22.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 12:02 pm

        In what world is a song about killing somebody “mildly distasteful”? It is completely disgusting and shouldn’t be defended.
        • Colonial Viper 22.1.1.1

          26 August 2014 at 2:21 pm

          It’s just a song. It won’t appeal to middle NZ sensibilities. And it’s not helpful for unpoisoning our politics. But Neoliberal policies are actually killing tens of thousands in NZ before their due time and we all accept that.
      • Karen 22.1.2

        26 August 2014 at 12:41 pm

        No, it isn’t mildly distasteful. It is way, way worse than that and sentiments encouraging rape and violence should not be considered justifiable by anybody professing to be left wing. I loathe John Key and fear for the future of NZ if he gets reelected. This song is more likely to get him sympathy at a time that those who thought he was great are beginning to ask questions. Really dumb.
        • felix 22.1.2.1

          26 August 2014 at 7:55 pm

          “…sentiments encouraging rape…”

          Care to point that out please?
        • karol 22.1.2.2

          26 August 2014 at 8:25 pm

          I inwardly groan when I see a leftie express the anger in terms of violence or killing political opponents (in a country like NZ that isn’t a war zone). I don’t think it’a helpful to the left at all.
          • felix 22.1.2.2.1

            26 August 2014 at 8:32 pm

            Probably not helpful at all.

            But as far as I know @peace aren’t speaking for “the left” as as artists have no responsibility to do so.
            • karol 22.1.2.2.1.1

              26 August 2014 at 8:36 pm

              Fair enough. Whoever does it, not something I support.

              I’m for the means of political protest and the underlying values expressed are important.
              • felix …

                26 August 2014 at 8:44 pm

                As I see it, stuff like this just shows the depth of antipathy that exists among young people toward Key in particular and this govt in general.

                None of this sentiment is ever picked up in the polls, and the political commentariat seem to have missed it, but it exists and it is building.
                • adam …

                  26 August 2014 at 8:51 pm

                  It’s because they either don’t want it to turn up in the polls – or they hoping they bury their heads long enough it will go away.

                  But just stop and talk to the young people, they are pissed off. They see what’s happening, they are not stupid. I talk to young mum’s and dads on a regular basis – they feel the future is going to be absolute hell for their kids. – I think they are right.

                  Funny how pollsters don’t ask that question.
                • karol …

                  26 August 2014 at 9:04 pm

                  I agree it shows the depth of anger. But I worry about what will replace it when the anger is expressed in the language of violence.

                  Not keen on bringing Key’s daughter into it either.

                  I’m glad to hear there are a lot of young people angry with the government and state of our society.
                  • felix …

                    26 August 2014 at 9:29 pm

                    “I worry about what will replace it when the anger is expressed in the language of violence.”

                    Yeah it’s a worry alright. But it’s also entirely predictable considering the violence this govt and those they represent have inflicted on large segments of the populace.
                  • RedLogix …

                    26 August 2014 at 9:45 pm

                    This is a really important conversation. We’ve seen a generation of young people alienated from the political process – and that is never a stable condition.

                    Sooner or later something or someone will trigger that instability – and this small country may see consequences from our deepest nightmares.

                    It’s why the left must keep campaigning hard to get these people back voting.
                  • CnrJoe …

                    27 August 2014 at 5:54 am

                    Oh poor key and sophie
                    Key himself draws his kids into it. I’ll try and hunt it out but there’s the time Key had been bailed up about some shares – tranzrail? – and he quipped ‘ I even offered them to Max and he didn’t want them..’
                    • CnrJoe …

                      27 August 2014 at 6:08 am

                      Here it is
                      http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/key-admits-sloppy-share-management-3367436
    • Rosie 22.2

      26 August 2014 at 11:39 am

      The article linked on karol’s post perhaps anker? It’s an excellent article. Shines a light on a topic, their relationship with sources, that no other journalists, most likely for a myriad of reasons, have not been able or will not to raise.
23. greywarbler 23

    26 August 2014 at 11:14 am

    Rod Oram on Radionz on housing policies at moment, National first then Labour. Good as usual.

    Says that a big change will be needed from the trend to build expensive homes as being more profitable. He talks about the building sector needing to have sort of templates to design and build cheaper homes. If we had an active government, there would be model houses designed for country-wide use, for cost and materials and practicality designed by people using their specialist knowledge for the benefit of NZs. A Buildings department would be a good idea. I think we have something of that nature that is prevented from being the needed guide by some ill-advised ideology.
24. anker 24

    26 August 2014 at 11:16 am

    EiE @ 22.1 Yep that is true. I don’t have to like it. I understand why its happening. When your suppress people and their voice it breaks through and it is not pretty as it would have been if you let them have a say in the first place.
25. yeshe 25

    26 August 2014 at 11:32 am

    as rare as hens’ teeth .. apology from Plunket to Gower ? must have been a very big mess ….

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10424397/Plunket-apologises-over-Gower-ambush
    • Kiwiri 25.1

      26 August 2014 at 12:08 pm

      The state of NZ’s broadcasters: when those reporting the news are making news.
    • North 25.2

      26 August 2014 at 3:33 pm

      As ratshit ridiculous and plainly unprofessional as Gower can be in the visual medium Plunket comes across as the overbearing, hectoring bully in the talkback context. One for Gower here. Neither however approach the master of the universe chappie coining himself “Well Oi’ll Bee Fooked”.
26. adam 26

    26 August 2014 at 12:13 pm

    I’m loving all the moralising over this song in the comments.

    By the way anger young men. Hip-hop and violent.

    So for the squeamish – avoid.

    http://www.undertheradar.co.nz/news/8630/Listen-Peace—Kill-The-PM.utr
    • Rosie 26.1

      26 August 2014 at 12:47 pm

      Indeed. See the discussion going on above, starting at #19
27. joe90 27

    26 August 2014 at 1:13 pm

    The scum involved in #dirtypolitics were/are only a phone call removed from sinister shit like this.

    The National Security Agency is secretly providing data to nearly two dozen U.S. government agencies with a “Google-like” search engine built to share more than 850 billion records about phone calls, emails, cellphone locations, and internet chats, according to classified documents obtained by The Intercept.

    The documents provide the first definitive evidence that the NSA has for years made massive amounts of surveillance data directly accessible to domestic law enforcement agencies. Planning documents for ICREACH, as the search engine is called, cite the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Drug Enforcement Administration as key participants.

    ICREACH contains information on the private communications of foreigners and, it appears, millions of records on American citizens who have not been accused of any wrongdoing. Details about its existence are contained in the archive of materials provided to The Intercept by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden.

    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/08/25/icreach-nsa-cia-secret-google-crisscross-proton/
    • Rich 27.1

      26 August 2014 at 1:32 pm

      An even better one linked from there;

      http://www.popehat.com/2013/12/23/burn-the-fucking-system-to-the-ground/
28. yeshe 28

    26 August 2014 at 2:10 pm

    So the hacker explains today that when the motivation is understood, and it’s not political, it will point directly and specifically to the hacker.

    maybe there are several out there with reason to do it … just as an example … from 2012 ..

    http://laudafinem.com/tag/debbie-brown/

    Be warned .. it has a very large and unflattering image of Slater ….

    Toujours, cherchez la femme !
    • Colonial Viper 28.1

      26 August 2014 at 2:26 pm

      lol!
    • yeshe 28.2

      26 August 2014 at 2:38 pm

      and this published online, dated today … lots in there I don’t personally understand, but the machinations seem deep and acidly corrosive. Have we just been been surfing on a cesspit this whole time ? Eeew.

      http://laudafinem.com/category/lauda-finem-investigates/
    • Te Reo Putake 28.3

      26 August 2014 at 4:45 pm

      Your warning shouldn’t be about the photo of Slater, yeshe, but about the misogyny and racism of the person who wrote the article. Pathetic stuff.
      • yeshe 28.3.1

        26 August 2014 at 5:11 pm

        agree 100% . the whole thing is abhorrent.
    • Murray Olsen 28.4

      27 August 2014 at 2:35 am

      That laudafinem blog has a very sleazy style. That article is very distasteful.
29. Puckish Rogue 29

    26 August 2014 at 3:03 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10424702/Man-admits-defacing-National-Party-billboards?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    • What is it with Green members and defacing National hoardings and generally being idiots? They do know we live in a democracy right?
    • McFlock 29.1

      26 August 2014 at 3:06 pm

      nothing in that article about him being a green member.

      Has the SIS been conveniently declassifying files about government opponents again?
      • Puckish Rogue 29.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 3:21 pm

        Nope I utilised my mad hacking skillz and got access from a source that must remain confidental
        – http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/green_party_activist_guilty_of_defacing_national_billboards.html
        • McFlock 29.1.1.1

          26 August 2014 at 3:26 pm

          ah, more traditional right-wing stalkerising.
          Tell me, did farrar base the alleged green-connection on stolen membership records, or simply because the guy turned up to a protest?
          • Puckish Rogue 29.1.1.1.1

            26 August 2014 at 3:38 pm

            I think he based it more on what the guy put on his own facebook page however I concede it may have been put there by a vengeful SIS in an effort to make the drop kick look bad
            • McFlock 29.1.1.1.1.1

              26 August 2014 at 5:31 pm

              yes, because whenever I see someone in the court news I need to see what posts on their facebook page can be twisted for my purposes 🙄 #rightwingstalkers

              protip: not everyone who says “fuck john key” is a “green party activist”.
        • felix 29.1.1.2

          26 August 2014 at 8:20 pm

          Hey PR, was it you who – a week or so before #hagerbook – was here bragging that the dirty tricks crew have one story/smear to release every day until the election?

          How’s that working out?
          • Chooky 29.1.1.2.1

            26 August 2014 at 11:13 pm

            lol
30. phillip ure 30

    26 August 2014 at 3:07 pm

    i just sat in ak library and speed-read ‘dirty politics’..

    .whoar..!

    ..it’s even worse than you think it’s gonna be..

    ..and farrar giving himself groin-stretch trying to step away from the mess..?

    ..and furiously washing his hands at the same time..?

    ..utter bullshit..!

    ..his little head is bobbing away in there..alongside slater/lusk/ede/hooton/bhatnagar..

    ..david ‘dirty politics’ farrar..
31. Stiff little finger 31

    26 August 2014 at 3:11 pm

    EiE
    I guess you support the “Roast Busters” then?
    You dickhead.
32. CnrJoe 32

    26 August 2014 at 6:09 pm

    Wow

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/20147237/failed-national-candidate-wants-rogue-elements-kicked-out
    • Weepus beard 32.1

      26 August 2014 at 6:51 pm

      This shit has got to end. So many questions like that from Brent Robinson going unanswered. He quite categorically states that Mitchell told him he had hired Lusk and Slater to do the dirty work. Now Mitchell is denying ever having spoken to Robinson about it.

      This guy Mitchell is an ex mercenary, the worst type of hired thug you can get. What do the good people of Rodney think? More needs to be made of this story including some effing journos door-stepping Mitchell.
33. philj 33

    26 August 2014 at 6:15 pm

    xox
    Present at Oxfam Climate Change Debate in Wellington. VUW. Rutherford house. Greens present,Labour present, NZFirst present. National absent. The worlds under serious threat. National , no show. Incredible.
34. Chooky 34

    26 August 2014 at 7:57 pm

    Hack Attack! Anonymous strikes at Israeli govt over Gaza

    http://rt.com/news/182520-anonymous-attack-israeli-government/
35. vto 35

    26 August 2014 at 8:07 pm

    David Farrar cries that he can’t understand why the hate shown towards people like him in this election.

    John Key cries the same.

    They are as ignorant as the policies and attitudes of theirs which cause the hate. So fucking ignorant.
    • felix 35.1

      26 August 2014 at 8:17 pm

      Funny eh? Seems that the narrow constraints of polite political discourse conducted by a handful of utterly conflicted and well-heeled insiders has somehow completely misread the depth of the disgust and contempt this govt inspires in many, many people.
      • adam 35.1.1

        26 August 2014 at 8:46 pm

        It’s been there for a while, I think people feel they can express it now.
        • felix 35.1.1.1

          26 August 2014 at 9:29 pm

          Yep.
36. vto 36

    26 August 2014 at 8:15 pm

    John Key failed to distance himself from Slater even when he was on the West Coast and face to face with the mother of the young man over whose death Slater danced for joy and talked with Key about. Key had nothing to say to her and Key stood with Slater. Says it all.

    Key is nothing but scum.

    Slater can go to hell.
    • McFlock 36.1

      26 August 2014 at 9:04 pm

      Slater can go to hell.

      I don’t believe in hell, but even if I were as amoral and insecure as slater, I’d still want to hedge my bets a bit more than he has 🙂
37. Ergo Robertina 37

    26 August 2014 at 9:27 pm

    Interesting that Labour’s David Parker (at the debate in Queenstown tonight) argues against ‘low value’ immigration on the basis the modern economy has a diminishing need for labour, yet he is intent on pushing the age of Super out, increasing the labour pool.
    • Murray Olsen 37.1

      27 August 2014 at 2:46 am

      That just goes to show that he’s an unreconstructed Rogernome at heart. If the left lose this time, I think he will be at least as responsible as any individual.
38. tricledrown 38

    26 August 2014 at 11:53 pm

    Ergo compulsory Kiwisaver will allow people to retire at 65 still ,!
39. nadis 39

    27 August 2014 at 12:15 am

    Weka. Use caliber to manage your books. It’s pretty much an iTunes equivalent for ebooks. Apparently there are addins for it that you can find on the interweb that automatically perform various tasks. Depending on the task u want to automate, just Google for it.
    • weka 39.1

      27 August 2014 at 12:27 am

      do you mean Calibre? I already use that, but it can’t read the Kindle version of Dirty Politics. Once imported into Calibre, it will prompt Kindle to open and show the book there instead. Like I said, I tried various ripping options and none of them could get past the DRM, so I’m curious how you think it can be ripped easily within a few minutes.

      Edit: ah ok, I see what you mean. There is a Kindleunpackit addon that creates a new file that can be read in Calibre and presumably ripped to PDF etc. cheers.
40. nadis 40

    27 August 2014 at 6:38 am

    Weka. Don’t over complicate things. Just Google caliber drm.

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1. All Antennae - No Compass « The Standard The Standard: posted on 27 August 2014 at 7:25 am

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