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Open mike 26/11/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:56 am, November 26th, 2013 - 188 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step right up to the mike …

188 comments on “Open mike 26/11/2013 ”

  1. Paul 1

    Anadarko has started drilling for oil off the coast of Raglan.
    Another nail in the coffin for New Zealand’s reputation as a leader in environmental matters.
    A sad day.

    • Chooky 1.1

      YEAH to Greenie Jeanette Fitzsimons!!!!! …..former Green Party Leader and Green activist and researcher….What a gem of a woman!…what a hero she is…out there on the deep seas fighting against unsafe oil drilling off the coast of New Zealand. She makes me proud to be a New Zealander and proud to be a woman!

      …..and also a big Yeah for Bunny McDairmaid( Greenpeace)!!!! …what a New Zealand hero she is! ….skipper of SV Tiama tracking the oil drilling ship Noble Bob Douglas



      What fabulous women environmentalists!

    • Wayne 1.2

      Totally agree with Paul!
      Unsure how a Government representing a country who has signed the Kyoto Protocol can stand up for deep sea drilling or any further drilling or extraction of fossil fuels which in turn create greenhouse gases.

      When Simon Bridge’s grandkids are running around with masks on to survive, he may see the error of his ways and thinking. Good for NZ? He is supposed to be an intelligent man, and I suspect far more educated than the role model John Key that he appears to idolise.
      The fact of the matter (quoting Simon), is that even with the stringent compliance necessary, New Zealand could not cope with an oil spill, and the events off Tauranga give evidence to the problems encountered and that was only small scale.
      This Government and subsequent governments, should be promoting and investing in alternative energy, do their homework (what they get paid for) and see the reality of the contributions people such as Kessler have given to the world.
      We could be World leaders yet again with inventing and promoting alternative energy sources.
      Time for present and forward Governments to stop and think about the decisions they are making, and stop focusing on the short term monetary gains.
      Global warming is happening, fossil fuels are contributing, let’s get behind positive steps to reduce fossil fuel extraction and hence useage and become part of the solution and not part of the problem.

      The argument of “did you drive your car today” is only a valid argument if alternate modes of transport were freely available. I am sure if alternative green fuels were available, they would be the peoples choice.
      So yes I agree…A sad day!

      • Rogue Trooper 1.2.1

        These are sad days indeed, and it benefits people to be real about that. It’s scraping the bottom of the barrel time, socio-politically speaking. Seen footage of the air pollution in large Asian cities, looks like Blade Runner (which is being remade) to me.

    • David H 2.1

      Stewie will have to repair his time machine, in some future episode.

      • phillip ure 2.1.1

        i hope so..i hope so..

        ..it has to be all just a bad dream/time-machine thing..

        ..brian is the show..

        ..i mean..if the writers are bored..kill off who brian calls ‘the fatman’..

        ..but not the dog..!

        ..phillip ure..

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2

      Family Guy is one of the reasons I no longer watch TV.

      • David H 2.2.1

        For me thats South Park what a load of rubbish that is But sorry Draco but FG is at least funny.

        • QoT

          You know, I have literally never before encountered someone who sees it that way around. You know what you get if you subtract all the “this is just like the time when I ___” randomness out of Family Guy? A less subversive version of All in the Family.

  2. Penny Bright 3

    FYI folks!

    It’s Tuesday 26 November 2013, about 7am and I’m about to get dressed, finish packing bag and get bus to 488 George St Sydney to attend a full day workshop at the Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference.

    Have trimmed over 700 ‘business’ (NOT) cards, ready to do ‘swapsies’ with as many of the fellow attendees as possible.


    Tonight is a net-working event, so it will be quite a big day.

    I have printed off copies of the request Lisa Prager and myself have made to the NZ Serious Fraud Office, requesting an investigation for alleged bribery and corruption by Mayor Len Brown and Sky City (Auckland), to discuss with anti-corruption experts and any Australian media who may be interested.

    (It seems that many people I’ve spoken to here are aware of the Auckland Mayor ‘sex scandal’.

    However, the fact that there was NO ‘due diligence’carried out by Auckland Council on the increased risk of money-laundering, arising from the NZ International Convention Centre (or – as I prefer to call it – the Sky City ‘money-laundering’ ) Act 2013, whilst on Mayor Len Brown’s ‘watch’, doesn’t appear to be so widely known, probably because of what seems to be effectively a mainstream media ‘blackout’ on this story?).

    Meant of course in a caring way 🙂

    If you would like to see a copy of this SFO complaint folks, you can check out http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz


    Penny Bright

    ‘Her Warship’ 😉

  3. David H 4

    It seems that the Anti finning legislation is just another Smoke and Mirrors load of bullshit from the Nats as it is going to be phased in, in 3 years. So much for conservation from the Nats.

    “Lost in the touchy-feel good images was the fine print: New Zealand’s intention to ban the practice is three years away and is only a proposal.

    Conservationists worried about the status of many of our 113 shark species say there is no justification for the phase-in and fear fishing industry proponents will use a consultation period to water down the plan.”

    • Naturesong 4.1

      The whole approach to managing New Zealand’s fisheries needs a rethink.

      From protecting all identified spawning areas to through to ensuring only New Zealander’s own and run the fishing boats. Dont get me started on longlines and bottom trawling.

      I see that cameras on fishing boats are to be phased in over the next 2 years to help combat dumping. Its a band aid.

      • phillip ure 4.1.1

        and from a vegan point of view..’don’t get me started’ on the similarities between the central nervous systems of fish and humans..

        ..and what the horrors for them of death from a hook thru the mouth..

        ..followed by suffocation and/or a head-bash..

        .. must be like..


        ..phillip ure..

        • Naturesong

          I’m ok with eating dead things, though these days I comsume very little meat. A result of the change in my eating habits when I was a vegetarian.

          I’m also of the belief that if you do not have the stomach to kill it, you should not eat it.
          So, I’ve killed and eaten possums, chickens, duck, rabbits, goat, and fish. It’s the butchering I find more troubling than actually ending the animals life.
          I’ve not killed a deer, pig, sheep or cow.

          I’d like to see study of food sources including trips to farms and freezing works as part of the curriculum for every secondary school student so they can at least make properly informed decisions about what they eat.

          • phillip ure


            ..i agree with yr last paragraph..

            ..and..so..yr ‘naturesong’ is a funeral dirge for the animals you eat..?

            ..and can i ask why you went veggo in the first place..?

            ..how long for..?

            …and why you resumed carnivorous ways..?

            ..just curious..eh..?

            ..phillip ure..

            • Naturesong

              I started eating mostly as a vegetarian when I was flatting with a couple of friends who were veges.
              At that time, I’d eat meat when I visited my parents or sometimes when I went out.

              I then turned full vegetarian when I shifted and started living with with what can only be described as a bunch of hippies.
              Intelligent, informed, artistic, curious and healthy both in mind and body. Wonderful people.
              It was the start of a great deal of learning for me, not only in food, but emotional health, group or tribal health.

              All up I lived as a vegetarian for about 6 years.

              I started eating meat again when I left New Zealand and lived in various places overseas. I found it difficult to maintain being a vegetarian as a single travelling person, though I did meet people along they way that managed it.
              Not eating meat for me was never a moral decision as it is with some people.

              Since I returned to New Zealand, I’ve not resumed a vegetarian lifestyle, and continue to eat meat about once per week.

          • chris73

            You probably won’t believe this but I agree with you

          • Murray Olsen

            I think we should eat a lot more possums. I tried it once and was vaguely impressed. It might be a good way of controlling their numbers and giving our native flora and fauna a bit more of a chance. I agree with you about trips to farms and meat works, especially battery hen factories and pig torture facilities. Dairy farms might be good as well, just to see the damage being done to the waterways.

        • Clashman

          I’m sure its only a matter of time until science gives us some ethical reasons not to be eating plants.
          Whatcha gonna do then?

          • Naturesong

            I don’t think the word ethics means what you think it does.

            • Clashman

              Really? I thought it meant something like – ” involving questions of right and wrong behavior : relating to ethics”
              Are you telling me vegans and vegetarians don’t consider eating meat as a question of right and wrong?

              • Naturesong

                Some vegetarians choose that path due to their moral or ethical outlook.

                However neither ethics nor morality are the result of empirical evidence or controlled experiments.

                • weka

                  Yet people claim that fish can’t feel pain (or animals can’t feel emotion) and use science to back that up. Some scientists support that using the scientific method.

          • yeshe

            Probably not have the same energy that I have now to reply to such an idiotic and useless comment by you, clashman.

        • Rosie

          Oh dear. Phillip I think of this often when I eat fish. I reached my 30th anniversary of being vego last year. (I turned vego when I was 14) but have started eating fish occasionally. It’s gives me a protein burst that I seem to need more as I get older.

          But what to do? The darlings suffer and we have a slack arse regulatory framework around marine protection, and I’m uncomfortable with being part of the problem It’s a quandary.

          • phillip ure

            @ rosie..

            “..But what to do? ..”

            can i suggest a (considered) vegan diet..?

            ..if still consuming cheese/dairy..these are ‘heavy’ foods for the body to process..

            ..avocado and peanut butter are good sources of protein..


            (link has lots of other protein-source information..)

            ..there is one culinary thing i have to give the americans credit for..

            ..the peanut butter and jam combination..

            ..a good quality bread (toasted..)..with a good quality (not sugar-drenched) jam..overlaid with a healthy dollop of (extra crunchy)peanut butter..

            ..washed down with hot tea..is a fast-food heaven..

            (and something weird is happening with me..i am getting urges to make (nut-laden) breads..and (not sugar drenched) jams..i dunno w.t.f. that is all about..)

            phillip ure..

            • Rosie

              Thanks phillip 🙂

              I did try vegan on and off for many of those years, it’s where my heart is at as far as the bovines are concerned (they are lovely animals) and for environmental reasons, but , oh! I have a terrible soft spot for cheese. Cheese and only cheese, out of all the variety of dairy products. Now days I try to avoid Fonterra products where possible and get goat cheese if I can ever afford it. About two thirds of my meals would be vegan.

              Peanut butter – yes, the PIC;s one on wholegrain toast in the morning is a goer but PB + jam, I did give that a go as a teen but it felt a bit too Elvis for my tastes.

              And avo’s. Regrettably they don’t agree with me. Regrettable because they are a great food and good in place of dairy fats.

              I guess where I am now is in the place of a lapsed vego (pescetarian I think the word is)trying to mitigate the environmental and ethical impact of dietary requirements. And thats before my brand boycotts begin! Thats another level of avoidance due to not consuming food from corporates who have a track record of labour rights abuses.

              (With apologies to TS readers for TMI)

              • and this one is a bit of a shocker for fans of the traditional kiwi-diet..

                ..esp xmas dinner edition..(death by butter..!..)


                (paula deen is an american celebrity chef..famous for her super-unhealthy recipies..

                ..(she fries creamed-rice..(!)..whoar..!.eh..?)

                ..it also has gifs..one of dean saying ‘please forgive me’..

                ..and as far as that traditional kiwi diet is concerned..it’s not that far from deen..

                ..have you read the edmonds cookbook lately..?

                ..’holy buckets of sugar and butter..!..batman..!’..

                ..phillip ure..

              • Belladonna

                Rosie, you get protein from most things you eat, plants are actually quite high in protein.
                No need to get it from animals at all. When did you last hear of someone in the western world suffering from protein deficiency? Cheese is hard to give up but you can buy vegan cheeses nowadays, some good, some not so good. I make cheeses from nuts, mainly cashews and they are delicious. Lots of recipes on google!

                • Rogue Trooper

                  Nuts are excellent, in particular walnuts. They are often provided in the diets of elderly people who are unable to eat large portions; contain most minerals etc.

        • weka

          “..and what the horrors for them of death from a hook thru the mouth..

          ..followed by suffocation and/or a head-bash..

          ..must be like..


          Probably similar to the small creatures that get half chopped by the harvesting machines and then die slowly in the fields of grains and beans that provide the food you eat.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2

        I see that cameras on fishing boats are to be phased in over the next 2 years to help combat dumping.

        And I can imagine just how faulty those cameras will end up being.

  4. Fisiani 5

    Trillions of dollars worth of oil and gas simply waiting to be extracted. Anadarko are prepared to spend 1 million dollars a day to look for this oil. They obviously believe it is there. They will drill for 70 days and may well draw a blank (90% chance). Such is life. If they do strike oil then we all win. On Waitangi Day we may discover that New Zealand is richer than it is today

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.1

      Or poorer. Depends on the costs, which do not figure in your analysis. A bit like those housing market models that do not allow for decreases in housing value.

    • Fisiani 5.2

      The protest flotilla (six tiny boats) have given up and are on the way back to port already. The High Court cannot stop a perfectly legal activity. Roll on Waitangi Day when we can all discover if we are wealthier.

      • Naturesong 5.2.1

        So, if they do discover oil.

        How much wealthier will we be?

        And given that there is a 1/20 chance of a spill, when there is a spill, how much wealthier will we be?

        • Fisiani

          The Cunliffe was trying to claim there was a 70% chance of spill. You are now trying to claim that there is just a 5% chance, That figure is not believable as it not the Norwegian UK or USA experience at all. The Gulf of Mexico is still cleanly producing loads of oil and profits to the USA.

          • Enough is Enough

            Not to the USA…to a small group of corporate scum only.

            Don’t be such a fool. The Arabs sell oil correctly. Silly old New Zealand and USA just give it away to corporate scum bags

          • Ennui

            Questions for all who object to drilling and petroleum exploration.

            Do you use an automobile?
            Do you intend to keep using an automobile?
            Do you use digital / electronic goods?
            Do you eat cheap packaged foods?

            I could carry on. If you want to stop it the only way is to stop consuming and using petrochemical products…which you will find pretty much impossible to do. We are all culpable, to change we need to embrace alternatives now, and cut our whole life expectations. If not, well we are fucked.

            • Naturesong

              I have an automobile and use it when public transport, walking and cycling is inconvenient. One of the main considerations when buying my house was so that walking, cycling and public transport was most convenient.
              So, I take the train to the city, use my bike or walk for shopping, and use my car when I go to the coromandel.

              Yes, I use digital / electronic goods. I’m quite keen to see oil subsidies and tax breaks redirected toward research in alternative materials.

              Very few of my foods are cheap.
              I bake my own bread and grow vegetables. When shopping I have a couple of bags I reuse.
              Unfortunately, so many things are wrapped in plastic these days, it’s very difficult to avoid.

            • McFlock

              That’s only half the equation.

              As Naturesong points out, existing in society without using oil (directly or indirectly) is pretty near impossible for us as individuals.

              But the very fact that oil companies are finding it commercially viable to drill so deep or mine crappy oil sands demonstrates that the “low hanging fruit” is running out, oil-wise. Refusing to endanger other industries and the environment by desperately drilling the last drops makes oil even more expensive, so R&D into fossil-fuel replacements becomes more commercially viable and accelerates the society-wide transition away from oil.

              We can’t stop using oil in our daily lives.
              We can try to stop drilling more of it, though.

              • Rogue Trooper

                it’s a case of +2 degrees, or +6 (no squiggly approx. key). 😛

              • infused

                It’s not impossible though, is it? So get started. Lead the way as the left like to say.

                • McFlock

                  I’m pretty sure it is impossible in this society, especially if someone’s on an average income.

                  But I certainly try to limit the amount of fossil fuels I am responsible for.

            • Draco T Bastard

              Yes, almost everything available today uses oil in its construction but most oil drilled is used for transport (69% to 97%).

              I’m not really against drilling for oil, I just think we should use it for better purposes than transport especially in NZ where it’s possible to produce enough electricity to power transport. We may have to get rid of private motor vehicles but that’s ok because they’re a massive waste of resources anyway.

          • Naturesong

            I had a feeling you would not engage honestly. You have 2 logical fallacies here; ad hominam where you cast David Cunliffe as economical with the truth, and then use that as a red herring to avoid adressing either of my points.

            David Cunliffe did not claim there was a 70% chance of a spill.
            He produced documentation that showed there was a 70% chance of a reportable incident
            Amy Adams put forward the strawman that he was talking about spills. I see you are repeating that willful and dishonest mis-interpretation.

            The incidence of spills in ultra-deep water (greater than 1500m) are about 1 in 19 (24 spills from 465 wells).

            So, back to the question.

            If oil is discovered, how much wealthier will we be?
            And when an oil spill happens, how much wealthier will we be?

            • Fisiani

              A spill of 50 -100 barrels of oil 100km off shore means diddly squat.

              • McFlock

                like your comments, fistiani.

                A spill of thousands of barrels means quite a lot.

                Your hero Key wants to gamble with over $15b in annual revenue from tourism and fisheries for the sake of a drilling rig that probably won’t match that in its operational life.

                • David H

                  Maybe thats the Nats plan, ruin the tourism industry and then the Bankers and other thieves, can come in and make us slaves to the rich in our own country.

              • Naturesong

                More diversion and red herrings.

                Please show us all where you get the idea that a spill off the coast of Raglan will magically stop once 100 barrels have been spilt?

                But first;

                If oil is discovered, how much wealthier will we be?
                And when an oil spill happens, how much wealthier will we be?

                • Fisiani

                  Your link to spills were spills of just over 50 barrels.
                  How much wealthier will we be? Just ask the citizens of the Arabian states with oil.
                  IF a tiny oil spill occurs not a cent less wealthier.

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    “How much wealthier will we be? Just ask the citizens of the Arabian states with oil.”

                    So not wealthier at all, unless we’re members of the elite? Good to know.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      That’s the bit that completely eludes the average RWNJs. They go on about how better off we will be and ignore the fact that it will only be the 1% at the top that will be better off.

                  • Naturesong

                    Spills less than 50 barrels were not included.

                    The document includes spills from 50 barrels up but to 4.9 million barrels.

                    However, we can only assess the likely hood of a spill with this data, not the extent of the damage. For that we would turn to modelling of what a spill would look like in our region of the world.

                    Andarko have refused to release the modelling, and only say

                    In the environmental impact assessment it last month lodged with the Environmental Protection Authority for its Taranaki operation, the company conceded a loss of well control would hold “significant impacts” for the environment, but stated this was “extremely unlikely”.

                    Now, comparing Saudi Oil to New Zealand.
                    More than 95% of all Saudi oil is produced on behalf of the Saudi Government by the parastatal giant Saudi Aramco.
                    So, they get to keep their oil, and being a leader in OPEC as well owning 18% of the worlds oil, they get it all on their own terms.
                    And were you aware that they are currently trying to diversify their economy. Why would they need to do that?

                    New Zealand on the other hand, with “Lets make a deal” Key ….
                    we get either;
                    5% AVR, that is 5% of the net revenues obtained from the sale of petroleum
                    20% APR, that is 20% of the accounting profit of petroleum production.

                    So, after the stuff is extracted shipped, processed or onsold, and the accountants go though it, we get royalties.
                    Whats the bet that the company makes an accounting loss, or ends up with token net revenues?
                    How much would you pay an accounting firm to ensure that happens?

                    Also, since there are enough known oil reserves in the world, that if we extracted them all and burnt the stuff, we’d literally cook ourselves. So, whatever oil was discovered, we cannot use all of it.

                    Oh, and for that pittance we assume all the risk of a spill, the cost of a clean up, the destruction of our fisheries, tourism, and Clean Green Image.
                    The image alone is valued in the region of 30B per year, every year.

                    So, again, how much wealthier will we be?

                    The wealth is not found in a polluting, dying industry.
                    The wealth is in clean energy solutions.

                  • Tracey

                    Are their wells owned by an overseas company?

          • Tracey

            when did he claim 70% chance of a spill? Link?

          • Murray Olsen

            Great to see all that profit for the US and A. How much more before they’ll be able to house all their people? It wouldn’t cost that much, there are plenty of empty houses. Maybe they could fuel buses to transport homeless people to the empty houses. Ah, the wonders of profit!

    • Draco T Bastard 5.3

      Trillions of dollars worth of oil and gas simply waiting to be extracted.

      As per normal the RWNJ fails to realise that the resource is more valuable than the electronic dollars.

      • Colonial Viper 5.3.1

        It’s bizarre isn’t it. It’s like collecting points from a pin ball machine.

      • McFlock 5.3.2

        As per normal the RWNJ fails to realise that the resource is more valuable than the electronic dollars.

        Worse than that, they can’t even figure out the value in electronic dollars.

        According to Wikipedia, NZ has oil reserves of 534 million barrels.
        At $1-200 per barrel, I make that $50-100bil.

        If the new deep sea exploration doubles NZ’s oil reserves, that’s maybe $200bil. “Trillions” my arse.

        Not just nowhere near “trillions”, but only ten or fifteen years worth of tourism income alone – income that even the existence of exploration can endanger, let alone a moderate spill.

        • Ennui

          The conversation we are having about wealth and dollars is totally redundant: who gives a flying fuck if the oil extraction ends up killing the planet how many $s you made?

          • weka


          • Colonial Viper

            We’re willing to sacrifice the NZ children and youth of today for the sake of trying to balance out electronic ledger entries.

            So I think that the ‘wrong’ ethos is very well established.

    • amirite 5.4

      With all of the 5% of the royalties. woohoo.

  5. Johnm 6

    As Xtasy has painstakingly pointed out this government has been taking advice from UK advisors on how to deal with the sick and disabled. It also is practising a sanctions regime on the unemployed which I believe is being copied from the UK system. Over there it’s all got to the level of persecution of Beneficiaries as soon as they slip up or rightly refuse to not do workfare.

    The extreme it’s got to over there is illustrated by this case :
    “Half-blind woman crippled with back pain killed herself after benefits bosses stopped her disability payments – following a TWO MINUTE assessment
    Jacqueline Harris, 53, was told she was fit to return to work
    Widow was partially sighted and only able to walk with the aid of sticks
    Christine Norman claims benefits ruling drove her sister to kill herself”


    And here in NZ:

    “Winz forces Hamilton family to prove sons still disabled
    ‘To have to prove this is silly’ ”

    The harassing condition is as follows one which is patently ludicrous: “Winz threatened to put a stop to disability payments for their two teenaged boys unless they could prove they still have their condition.”

    • Tracey 6.1

      Dyson did it oo. Under her regime my brother in law had to be retested, presumably winz thought there was a cure for cerebral palsy

  6. greywarbler 7

    This morning Steven Joyce was commenting on Government expecting enterprises to estimate their needs for revenue for a future year so they approximate better to the actual amount. He said that public or private should be able to forecast correctly. I was remembering how he had to bail out MediaWorks which seemed an example of how difficult this is to do.

    Tertiary educationals have had their buffer zone for repayment of over resourcing reduced from 3% to 1%. It must be hard to estimate right in this dynamic period of interesting times. So Government is squeezing these bodies for what reason? Trying to make provision of education harder? Along with a deep sense of distrust and distaste for any discipline other than an MBA with a PhD in how to extract millions of litres (dollars) from one lemon?

  7. CnrJoe 8

    U.S. Methane Study Says Emissions 50 Percent Higher Than EPA Estimates


    and according to my recent sums – in dairy cows alone – we/n.z have the a population of 1.3 billion people in terms of shit and piss

    1.3 billion

    • that is one seriously stat there..cnr joe..



      ..phillip ure..

    • ropata 8.2

      @CnrJoe… would be very interesting to see the detail of this statistic. And there’s nary a sewage pond to be seen throughout Southland. Just lots of rivers literally turning to shite

      • CnrJoe 8.2.1

        Sure thing
        1 dairy cow = 17-20 humans worth of shit
        1.26 million dairy cows in the Waikato = 17 million peoples worth of shit

        2012 – new zild dairy herd 6.5 million cows = 1.300 000 000 peoples worth of shit

        And farts. And piss

        For milk. MILK !
        Only counting dairy cows.

        Google it up

        • ropata


          Will Fonterra pay for the cleanup? Unlikely since National Inc. nobbled the democratically elected ECan and other boards are stacked, and the RMA is being ‘streamlined’

  8. Ennui 9

    Here we are all arguing the toss and anticipating the “Left” being in power! Reality check time. Heres’ real power (from http://www.theautomaticearth.com/whos-really-king-of-the-world-today/ )

    Well, if you thought you’d seen all the madness and absurdity that could possibly come out of the financial system by now, you are definitely being caught on the wrong flat foot as we speak. And there can be no doubt that much more of this will be revealed as we go along. Jamie Dimon renting Buckingham Palace to celebrate his $13 billion settlement with US regulators is just the beginning, though it’s a pretty clear statement of just how untouchable too big to fail policies have made Wall Street and the City feel. And they don’t feel that way for nothing, in every sense of the word, count on it.

    A Labour spokesman said this about the party at the Palace, which included appearances by the Royal Philharmonic and the English National Ballet: ““There is also the fact that this should be a special place. This is the home of the Queen. Where is it all going to end?“ Well, sir, maybe it’s time to wake up, because the new kings and queens of the world have taken over. And they intend to be loud and proud about it, like any group of conquerors throughout history ever did.

    Stands our little attempts at “democracy” well on end do you think?

  9. tricledrown 10

    Fishy if oil is found in large quantities our currency will sky rocket in value then all farming and other exporters will become uneconomic

    • Fisiani 10.1

      If oil is found in large quantities it would certainly raise the currency and make exporting difficult but not impossible. I have a Stressless recliner chair made in Norway for instance. It was expensive but absolute quality.The problem of being too affluent from oil riches could only arise under a National government. I for one would be happy to handle that crisis if and when it arises.

      • Tracey 10.1.1

        happy with 5% royalties or are you banging down National’s door urging them to truly follow Norway’s policy

      • Colonial Viper 10.1.2

        dutch disease

        plus NZ has proven totally incapable of managing our currency to a lower rate and thinks its OK to kill exporters to get cheap imported toys and fuel.

        • ropata

          If the price of gas went down I reckon we would see a big uptick in the local economy — it would be fantastic to be oil independent like Norway

          • Colonial Viper

            Energy is an effective tax on all activities and products in an economy. So you are right, but such an “uptick” is likely to make us more dependent on fossil fuels, not less, as we enjoyed another round of the good time ride.

          • Tracey

            wont anadarko send it all offshore? Like our best fruit and vegs, meat and seafood?

      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.3

        The problem of being too affluent from oil riches could only arise under a National government.


        The only people who would be able buy stuff would be the people getting the money and that won’t be 99% of the population. The only people National care about is the rich and they will do everything that they can to make them richer at our expense.

      • Murray Olsen 10.1.4

        Norwegians can make quality stuff because they train craftspeople. We used to, but now we have a service economy with people who would have done apprenticeships finding themselves on a minimum wage or a grudgingly paid pittance of a benefit. Apart from yachts, what do we still make? A high dollar when we sell milk powder and our most creative people have moved overseas is a disaster, but I suppose it’ll make the next lot of ministerial Beemers a bit cheaper.

        • Draco T Bastard


          That’s it exactly. We don’t have an economy any more, we have a financial roulette wheel.

  10. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 11

    See Cunners is not going to buy back MRP, Meridian and Air New Zealand shares. Maybe he is not as crazy as the Standardistas hope he is.

    • northshoreguynz 11.1

      But he’s not saying he won’t either. And markets hate uncertainty.

    • framu 11.2

      you do realise thats just key attempting to lay a very obvious trap?

      Do you support the PM goading the opposition to behave irresponsibly?
      Wasnt “show me the money” keys catch cry last time?
      Isnt this now “go on, say something before you do your due dilligence”?
      Did you spot that key claims its the oppositions money and not tax payer money?
      Isnt waiting to see the state of the books before you commit to spending tax payer money a good idea?

      Me – im less than impressed that our PM chose to use the media to engage in school yard taunts. Just how old is he? 12?

      • Draco T Bastard 11.2.1

        Isnt waiting to see the state of the books before you commit to spending tax payer money a good idea?

        The one thing that I’d like to see is the governments books open to everyone in real time.

        • framu

          heh – and in the computer age – is there any reason why this cant be done?

          Plenty of reasons why it wouldnt be done though

      • infused 11.2.2

        That he’s already fallen in to, because he’s a dumbass.

        • framu

          how exactly?

          all ive heard him say is “yeah nah – your just trying to trap me so you can call me a profligate communist”

    • alwyn 11.3

      Many of the Standardistas, as you name them, don’t want Cunliffe to BUY back the shares either.
      There have been many comments proposing that the shares should simply be cancelled, or taken back into state control with no compensation being paid at all.

      • Colonial Viper 11.3.1

        BTFD mate

        There have been many comments proposing that the shares should simply be cancelled, or taken back into state control with no compensation being paid at all.

        That’s not ideal and probably not necessary: you can just dilute the sons of bitches.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.3.2

        Damn right we do. Selling anybodies assets without their permission happens to be theft after all and receivers of stolen goods don’t get compensated.

      • infused 11.3.3

        yeah, lets see him try that.

    • CC 11.4

      Hope a new Government is not going to do a buy back – renationalisation without compensation makes much more sense since the assets belonged to the past and present taxpayers of New Zealand and not the Government. The salutary lesson might teach the greedies a valuable lesson that falls short of violent revolution. On second thoughts, the French peasants and their quaint revolutionary technology sounds far more exciting – especially since the wailing of the shareholders/ticket-clippers would be short lived.

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 11.4.1

        If he’s not willing to be so rash as to commit to buy them back, then I think expecting him to take them back without compensation is a recipe for disappointment.

        And CC, advocating murder of people you disagree with isn’t as hip as you think it is.

        • Rogue Trooper

          This is Hip pretty baby…

        • felix

          Murder, Gormy? lolz.

          We are all one, mate. All part of the greater whole.

          • ropata

            “This is not war; it is pest control!” http://youtu.be/vu6_IxkAHsI

          • The Gormless Fool Formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrel

            Yeah. Murder lolz. The funniest lolz there are. I laughed and laughed. Cracks you up too, I see Felix.

            • ropata

              Ever heard of hyperbole, Gormy?
              Are we allowed to discuss legal penalties for heinous crimes?

            • The Gormless Fool Formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrel

              Funnier than rape, ya reckon?

              • ropata

                A functional definition of a psychopath is a person who cannot feel empathy for fellow human beings or shame or remorse for their atrocities and acts of cruelty. However, non-compliance with their schemes with whatever level of courage one has at any moment and educating others as to the shit really going down on this planet is the only effective course. Like many species of vermin, and the mythical vampires that they are, they can only function in the dark.

                Sociopathic banksters won’t even get it when they’re waiting for their turn at the guillotine.

              • ropata

                Richard S. Fuld Jr. of Lehman Brothers said. “I take it as a personal failure to lose money,” On the morning of March 17, 2008, justice would declare he should have been headed to prison instead of to work.

                Richard Fuld, who early on that morning — at 5 a.m. — departed from his twelve-acre Greenwich estate with its twenty rooms, eight bedrooms, a tennis court, a squash court, and a pool house –one of five he owned—to be chauffer driven to deal with a possible run on banks and the bankruptcy of Bear Stearns, the smallest of Wall Street’s Big Five investment houses?

                Richard Fuld who, among past winners of Fed largesse and insider information soon to be scapegoat along with Ken Lewis, on that morning was headed “right onto North Street toward the winding and narrow Merritt Parkway, headed for Manhattan”…starring “ out the window in a fog at the rows of mansions owned by Wall Street executives and hedge fund impresarios,” as described by Andrew Sorkin in Too Big to Fail?

                Where “most of the homes had been bought for eight-figure sums and lavishly renovated during the second Gilded Age, which, unbeknownst to any of them, lest of all Fuld, was about to come to a crashing halt.”

                And where now, all but a handful in the financial sector, thanks to U.S. taxpayers and the ownership of a printing machine, are still enjoying, on the streets where they live, a financial sector share of corporate profits that has risen to a new peak in the $450 billion range, according to the U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of Economic Analysis?

                • Colonial Viper

                  Starving the masses while feeding the banking machine with free printed (by electronic key strokes) money.

            • felix

              Hi Gormy, the lolz was at you you fool.

              Crimes against humanity on a massive scale, the perpetuation of suffering and death, the oppression and subjugation of many for the profits of a few, none of this seems to register with you.

              This ongoing, systematic violence and bloodshed goes unremarked upon, while you damn near faint with shock at the thought of anyone violently resisting these horrors.

              Interesting moral compass you have there. Might want to get it re-calibrated though.

              • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                Someone’s compass needs recalibrating, I accept.

                CC advocates guillotining people who bought shares in Air New Zealand. The same people that James Henderson was so deeply concerned at having lost a few bucks the other day.

                I told him I thought that wasn’t as hip as he thought it was.

                I am pretty happy with where my moral compass is on this score.

                You might want to re-examine yours if you think that the privatising of 20% of the shares in an airline that you keep control of (and which the opposition planned to sell 10 years previously) is “ongoing, systematic violence and bloodshed” that requires beheadings.

                • tinfoilhat

                  Why is that someone many here deride as a RWNJ is talking sense while others are howling at the moon ?

                  • Rogue Trooper

                    Strange Days.

                  • ropata

                    Because if the top 1% continue their extreme greed and exploitation much longer then the number of people suffering under poverty and war will reach a critical mass, the fabric of society will fall apart, and no amount of money will save them from sharing in the misery they have created

                • felix

                  “You might want to re-examine yours if you think that the privatising of 20% of the shares in an airline that you keep control of (and which the opposition planned to sell 10 years previously) is “ongoing, systematic violence and bloodshed” that requires beheadings.”

                  Ah yes sorry Gormy, I forgot your rule about only looking at any given event in absolute isolation from every other event.

                  • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                    What is the reason shareholders in Air New Zealand are to be beheaded? Is it unrelated to their shareholding in Air New Zealand? Makes as much sense as anything else you’ve pronounced on this topic, I suppose.

  11. Sanctuary 13

    National’s full-on assault on democracy continues with an attempt to gut local democracy in Hawkes Bay in favour of a tiny , mayor plus nine member council for the entire Hawkes bay region. The autocratic and corporatist ambitions of Key and co know no bounds, they won’t be happy until the entire country is run by an unelected board of directors.

    Local government amalgamation is a hot button issue in Hawkes Bay. Napier Mayor Bill Dalton was elected on a specific anti-amalgamation platform. looks like this is going to send Stuart Nash to parliament as Labour MP for Napier for sure.


  12. Rogue Trooper 14

    Israel, Iran, and the Bomb

    Some, Israeli Concerns (other than being kept under a bushel regarding negotiations).
    -“the greatest diplomatic victory of the Islamic Republic since the Khomeini revolution”
    (and they have not forgotten Munich 😉 , or, have they).

    “[Israel]…”a rabid dog” pronounced Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, just the other day over a cup-of-cha.

    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      The Ayatollah’s comments are simply speaking to his local political base. Both this agreement, and the secret talks held with the US in the months leading up to it, would have needed the go ahead from the Ayatollah to have even occurred.

      As for Israel – to an outsider there is a lot of internal political pressure building up in that country, and also it’s spent too long delivering huge financial costs and political liabilities to the US for very little in return eg. Palestinian settlement situation getting worse not better.

    • Draco T Bastard 15.1

      The Americans insist that Iran does not have the “right to enrichment”. Iran insists that it does.

      Can Americans can read?

      Article IV
      1. Nothing in this Treaty shall be interpreted as affecting the inalienable right of all the Parties to the Treaty to develop research, production and use of nuclear energy for peaceful purposes without discrimination and in conformity with articles I and II of this Treaty.

      Fairly straight forward I would’ve thought.

  13. Rogue Trooper 17

    In-Alien Death Cult- Santa Muerte
    (“Alien technology and human stupidity, an unbeatable combination”- The Doctor).

  14. Colonial Viper 18

    Bryce Edwards gives Labour a clear path to eliminate the National backing Maori Party

    The future of the Maori Party in both Te Tai Hauauru and throughout the rest of the Maori seats might well depend on relations between the Labour and Mana parties. If those two parties end up agreeing to an accommodation pact in which Mana stands aside from five of the seven seats and Labour stands aside in Hone Harawira’s seat as well as Te Ururoa Flavell’s Waiariki seat, then the Maori Party might struggle to remain in Parliament.


    • Rogue Trooper 18.1

      ae, ka pai.

    • that makes much more sense than any deal with the maori party..

      ..who after election..could well turn around and support national..again..

      ..best to wipe them out..and be done with it..

      ..ensure a progressive govt..

      ..and start effecting some poverty-busting changes..

      ..i cannot think of single reason why such a lab/mana arrangement is not a good-deal..

      ..both battling to the death in those maori seats makes absolutely no sense for either..

      ..phillip ure..

      • ropata 18.2.1

        What happened to the Foreshore and Seabed issue anyway? Isn’t that the reason for the Maori Party to exist? Was a billion dollars for Whanau Ora a good investment?

  15. Tracey 19

    Please take some time to consider isgning this. None of us knows when we, a friend or other loved one, from illness, accident, or age may be disabled.

    The petition reads:

    “We, the undersigned, request the House of Representatives to urgently take all appropriate measures to ensure full access to public and commercial buildings for disabled people especially for new buildings in the Christchurch rebuild”

    For the Earthquake Disability Leadership Group this means equality in access and that all people, including those with disabilities are able to enter, exit and move through a building in the same way as everybody else does.

    The link to the online petition is https://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/we-request-the-government-urgently-take-all-appropriate-measures-to-ensure-full-access-to-public-and-commercial-buildings-for-disabled-people-especially-for-new-buildings-in-the-christchurch-rebuild

    • ropata 19.1

      Isn’t this already on the books?

      The Building Act 2004 and the Building Code require all buildings to which the public are admitted (whether for free or by charge) to have reasonable and adequate facilities for disabled people to visit, work, and carry out normal activities there. The Building Act and Building Code do not require access or facilities for disabled people in residential housing.

      The Department of Building and Housing administers the Act and regulations. Enforcement of the Act and regulations is carried out by territorial authorities, which issue building consents and code compliance certification for buildings that comply with the Act and regulations.

      The Building Act also references the New Zealand Standard NZS 4121 (the code of practice for design for access and use of buildings by persons with disabilities) as a compliance document for the requirements of disabled people’s access.


      • Tracey 19.1.1

        No, Joyce is taking the opportunity from the earthquake to save commercial developers money by not having to make their buildings accessible. It is intended to bring it in across NZ.

  16. Tracey 20

    New proposed ammendments to evidence act passed cabinet. BUT I wonder if they will change much.

    One is that victims willbe told in advance if their sexual history is going to come up. That may dissauade them from appearing and have the opposite effect.


    • Draco T Bastard 20.1

      The victims previous sexual history has no bearing upon their being raped. As such, it should be forbidden to bring it up in court or anywhere. In fact, there’s probably quite a bit that’s irrelevant to the allegation and should be banned from being asked – what the victim was wearing comes to mind as well.

      • Tracey 20.1.1

        I agree. The ONLY possible evidence that might be relevant is if she has been proven to be a liar about being reaped before BUT a defendants previous offending, even the same type of offending s not allowed in, so logically….

  17. Tell me fellow Standard contributors am I the only one to feel rather uncomfortably at the way the parole appeals for Ewen MacDonald was arrived,at.
    I do not for one minute think he is a very nice person but the fact is he was found not guilty.
    However the Serious sensible mob still seem to have a lot to say regarding this case.
    The police (may be influenced by the SS bunch ?) are not planning to investigate further ,yet there is one other person who is suspect and in my personal opinion there could be one other .

    • Rogue Trooper 21.1

      the results of his personality assessments do not make comforting reading. It’s not a long sentence relatively speaking.

      • Anne 21.1.1

        Interesting you brought up the Scott Guy murder case Pink Postman. Does anyone else feel curious about the obsession the MSM have with this particular murder? There have been many equally bizarre murder inquiries – some of them unsolved – that have not received anything like the media attention this one has. Am I being a little precious when I look at the following:

        1. Colour – white.
        2. Status – well to do country folk with a farming background.
        3. Good looking family.
        4 Seemingly well educated and articulate.
        4. National Party stalwarts.

        Counter that with a brown skinned or white working class victim. Probably equally as bright if not brighter, but without the status symbol and few opportunities to make something of themselves. Tough bickies. Sorry n’ all that, but we’re not all that interested.

    • Tracey 21.2

      he was not guilty of the murder of scott guy, he is in prison for his other acts. Which, on a pathological scale are pretty scarey.

      I was appalled recently to see a farmer who deliberately broke the tails of 150 cows got 8 months home detention. Cruelty o animals is wrong per se, but is frequently a harbinger of violence toward humans…

      MacDonald’s apparantly cavalier attitude may be on a list of behaviours of pathalogical folks…

  18. ghostrider888 22

    such a SHAME . 😎

  19. joe90 24

    No animals were harmed – a rather disturbing read.


  20. ropata 25

    Think that the US policy of Quantitative Easing is crazy? Then check out these graphs of China’s inconceivable, unsustainable, reality distorting capital injection into Chinese banks.

    In the past five years the total assets on US bank books have risen by a ‘paltry’ $2.1 trillion while over the same period, Chinese bank assets have exploded by an unprecedented $15.4 trillion hitting a gargantuan CNY147 trillion or an epic $24 trillion – some two and a half times the GDP of China!

    Putting the rate of change in perspective, while the Fed was actively pumping $85 billion per month into US banks for a total of $1 trillion each year, in just the trailing 12 months ended September 30, Chinese bank assets grew by a mind-blowing $3.6 trillion!

    So when you lose out on that purchase of a home to a Chinese buyer who bid 50% over asking sight unseen, with no intentions to ever move in, you will finally know why this is happening.

    • Rogue Trooper 25.1

      yes, I believe they’ve experienced property bubbles at home. The money moves on.

    • Draco T Bastard 25.2

      So when you lose out on that purchase of a home to a Chinese buyer who bid 50% over asking sight unseen, with no intentions to ever move in, you will finally know why this is happening.

      And that is why foreign ownership of NZ land and businesses need to be banned now. The way that things are going we will soon be serfs in our ow land as everything gets sold by the greedies for cash which is hot off the digital printing press.

  21. Matthew 26

    Hooton says Labour + Greens support at 49% in a private poll. https://twitter.com/MatthewHootonNZ/status/405180720651321344

    • bad12 26.1

      Where is the ‘spinner’ Hooten, i would like to know from which side of the spectrum the ‘private polling’ came,(where does this put National then, 39%???, i wasn’t expecting that until after the Christmas break when everyone has had a chance to stop and think)…

  22. greywarbler 27

    Slavoj Zizek commenting on that fat gutted shameful Mayor of Toronto. Rob Ford makes Boris Johnson look the height of human nobility.

    Zizek says that the left has put aside its traditional concerns and allowed politics to be parodied, become a fun show with people like Rob Ford, being outrageous, and still getting support from, and he uses the word, ‘cynical’ political supporters.
    Labour has focussed on gay rights and people’s rights too single-mindedly and disregarded its other concerns with a disastrous outcome.

    • McFlock 27.1

      Rob Ford’s left wing?

      Or is his refusal to resign somehow the fault of same-sex marriage?

      • greywarbler 27.1.1

        I know you can be relied on to see through the glass darkly when it comes to feminiism or rape culture or gay rights or something that you can possibly take umbrage or create contention about. Did you look and listen to the link. Why don’t you specify his comment so we know what you are on about.

        I think that the present bad situation for low income people with poor employment conditions, deteriorating everything might be what he had in mind when he said that Labour had failed to act to improve rights and the lives of all people which it says it is concerned about.

        • McFlock

          Did watch vid.
          It was rambling shit.

          Firstly, the left has not “put aside” traditional concerns. It has simply recognised that inequality and the alienation of the proletariat extend farther than the mere bank balance and rights of employees.

          Secondly, the Rob Fords of the world are not the fault of the left. At worst, they are the fault of a neolib culture which means that such folk (John Banks for example) hang on to the pay cheque when even thirty years ago a person would have had the sense of shame and dignity to resign. If anything they help the left, being obvious canker sores of the “fuck you” ruling class.

          And thirdly, if the more insecure members of “the left” concentrated on improving workers’ rights themselves rather than bitching that teh gayz and teh wimmins are getting too much attention, the world would be a better place in so many fucking ways.

          • greywarbler

            Firstly, the left has not “put aside” traditional concerns. It has simply recognised that inequality and the alienation of the proletariat extend farther than the mere bank balance and rights of employees.

            I think thoughtful left watchers consider that the focus of Labour has been on the far extensions of inequality and the nearer ones have been alienated.

            And Zizek being a poseur Bill. He is as full of interesting ideas and thinking as you are. And I have a lot of respect for you, though I do not agree with all your ideas.

    • ropata 27.2

      I was going to reply with a list of moral failings of the Right but realised that a mud slinging exercise would be futile. And I do agree that Labour in the past has given too much focus on identity politics at the expense of addressing the dramatically worsening socio economic inequality in NZ.

    • Bill 27.3

      Zizek is a poseur. End.

    • KJT 27.4

      Neo-liberals, of which the Labour party still has way too many for my liking, are OK about extending human rights, so long as they don’t don’t conflict with, their running off with, “the money”.

      Throwing progressives a few crumbs, like gay marriage, while they continue to burgle us.

      We, however, are capable of multitasking!
      There is no reason why we cannot address the rights of minorities, and other disadvantaged groups, along with the right to be free from poverty, and be fairly paid.

      For example. gay rights, women’s rights and workers rights are not mutually exclusive. They are all part and parcel of a fair and decent society.

  23. Ake ake ake 28

    Might catch Cunliffe on this side of the ditch tomorrow, which explains the “unavailable for comment” back in the Land of the Long White Cloud?


    But, despite the broad church blah blah blah thing, what’s up with Shane Jones? Is there something I am missing? Commentators – help?

    Labour deliberately or uncontrollably giving mixed messages?? Surely tactics and strategies are much better formulated with Cunliffe at the helm?

    Shane has been, is, and will be, in the wrong party as long as he is in Labour. Time for the caucus and party to take the next step in terms of real change from within.

    • Draco T Bastard 28.1

      Speaking on Maori TV’s Te Kaea tonight, Jones was outspoken about attempts to stop Anadarko from deep sea drilling and said the protesters should remember that the company had a statutory right to be there.

      Only if we, not the government, choose to extend them that right.

      “Protesters need to bear in mind we are buying oil out of the Gulf of Mexico and other far-flung places when we should be focusing on making an industry in our own country.”

      And the reason for that would be because our oil refinery doesn’t refine our oil.

      Yeah, I’d say that it was time for Shane Jones to wander off and join United Future where he could fully support National while saying that he isn’t.

  24. Tracey 29

    Ihave some malware adware stuff, you know that underlines stuff when you browse and if you hit it, it’s an ad… anyone got instructions for removal, that wont cost me?

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