Open mike 27/02/2021

125 comments on “Open mike 27/02/2021 ”

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1. KSaysHi 1

   27 February 2021 at 7:38 am

   Serpentza latest on of 2022 Winter Olympics.. I agree, I agree I agree.

   With every government afraid to offend China the best option is the tourists and to a lesser extent athletes.
2. KJT 2

   27 February 2021 at 8:17 am

   The battery invented 120 years before its time – BBC Future
   • Sabine 2.1

     27 February 2021 at 8:24 am

     we had electric cars well before Elon Musk showed up to be the worlds saviour.

     https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-car-history-2017-5?r=AU&IR=T#the-electric-car-burst-onto-the-scene-in-the-late-1800s-and-early-1900s-1

     But then gasoline came along and ………..

     In 1899 and 1900, electric vehicles outsold all other types of cars. In fact, 28 percent of all 4,192 cars produced in the US in 1900 were electric, according to the American Census. And the total value of electric cars sold was more than gasoline and steam powered cars combined that year.
   • RedLogix 2.2

     27 February 2021 at 9:09 am

     I looked hard at Ni-Fe batteries but while they do have the potential for a remarkably long life cycle, they do have other fundamental limitations that mean they've been generally overshadowed by lithium chemistries for good reason. But I agree they have an interesting history and are deserved more success than they met with.

     It's quite astonishing just how many various types of battery are being researched at the moment, and it's not at all clear which or any of them will rise to commercial success. You only have to have one significant weakness in the entire product system for it to be a show-stopper – not an easy challenge to overcome.

     https://www.rpc.com.au/solar-news/161/disadvantages-of-nickel-iron-batteries.html
3. Muttonbird 3

   27 February 2021 at 9:33 am

   Landlords being landlords. Aren't they so hard done by?

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/renting/124342557/landlords-undeterred-by-warning-bad-tenants-lists-could-break-the-law
4. Muttonbird 4

   27 February 2021 at 10:07 am

   The myth of the ethical property investor

   I can understand the temptation to buy more rental properties. Owning property grows savings and is relatively secure with strong backing from government, which doesn’t want house prices to fall. The cycle of disadvantage is fed by the cycle of advantage. I’ve found myself in the cycle of advantage, and now my dilemma is what to do.

   This landlord is conflicted. Not conflicted enough to sell his two rentals it seems, but at least he is considering it.

   He makes the good point that property investors such as himself are complicit in the widening of social inequality by denying families the ability to generate wealth on their own.

   In effect landlords are stealing from poor people.

   Twice in fact, first they remove the opportunity for low income families to increase intergenerational social, financial, and geographical security. And second by reaping and keeping un-redistributed tax free income gain.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/124358100/the-myth-of-the-ethical-property-investor
   • RedLogix 4.1

     27 February 2021 at 10:29 am

     In effect landlords are stealing from poor people.

     And at the same time providing them with a home, an activity that generates relatively little net income. Indeed the mere existence of the now defunct LAQC tax smoothing structure is proof that many landlords subsidised their tenants from their own PAYE income for many years.

     Not very good thieves really.

     All the gains in the current market come from the capital growth, and in this they are absolutely no different to anyone else who owns property.
     • Muttonbird 4.1.1

       27 February 2021 at 10:42 am

       You spectacularly missed the point as usual. By providing them with a home you deny them the opportunity to own their own.
       • RedLogix 4.1.1.1

         27 February 2021 at 11:20 am

         And if the excellent event these same poor people did wind up owning a home, and seeing the same capital gains … would this make them thieves too?

         Or maybe you’re looking in all the wrong places for the root cause.
         • Muttonbird 4.1.1.1.1

           27 February 2021 at 11:39 am

           No because part of the solution is to remove the ability of people such as yourself to accumulate such massive (in your own words) untaxed gains.

           This is about improving intergenerational societal stability which we know improves the lives of all. Most of that is to ensure everyone, or at least as many as possible, is able to access wealth which clearly isn't happening at he moment.

           Funny sort of progressive which seeks to deny this as a goal.

           As for the root cause, well perhaps this is difficult to find, but that is no excuse to hide behind it’s obscurity while enjoying the benefits.
           • Ad 4.1.1.1.1.1

             27 February 2021 at 1:10 pm

             Even if the gains were taxed more than they are, NZ houses would still be one of the most popular asset classes to invest in. Places to rent are in high demand – so investing in them is obvious.

             I can't currently see a policy combination by any kind of NZ Government involving either Labour or National that would make other assets such as shares or business ownership to be more attractive than home ownership.

             Of course Robertson will bring in the 10 year Bright Line test in his announcements next week. Plus stop being able to trade off income and interest. Plus go after property-owning trusts with no charitable purpose.

             Woods and Parker I'd expect will do the supply side announcements later.

             But to choose to sell up one or two of ones' houses and find something far more attractive – well that would require a spectacularly innovative economy with outstanding returns where risk is reasonable and the rate of return is at least as good as property.

             There aren't that many countries similar to ours that are like that.
             • Pat …

               27 February 2021 at 2:18 pm

               The Gov. could of course stop underwriting the property market, provide an alternative investment option, and restrict the flow of capital into housing WHILE providing the infrastructure and regulatory environment needed to encourage the required housing.
               • Ad …

                 27 February 2021 at 3:12 pm

                 Your comment is a sentence consisting of a set of abstract nouns with no policy grounding whatsoever.

                 It is not the job of government to 'provide an alternative investment option'. Markets do that.

                 What specific policies is the Minister of Finance likely to announce next week? He's given plenty of clues for you.
                 • Pat …

                   27 February 2021 at 4:40 pm

                   “Your comment is a sentence consisting of a set of abstract nouns with no policy grounding whatsoever ”

                   They are only abstract nouns if you have no idea

                   “It is not the job of government to ‘provide an alternative investment option’. Markets do that”

                   It used to be the job of government, until the con that markets were best took hold…and the markets are broken.

                   “What specific policies is the Minister of Finance likely to announce next week? He’s given plenty of clues for you.”

                   Thats the big question…sadly, to date the clues (rhetoric) don’t match the actions or rather, inactions
                   • Ad …

                     27 February 2021 at 5:04 pm

                     The government doesn't owe you an asset class.

                     The government doesn't 'make an investment option' for you.

                     Whatever historical fantasy you live in disappeared about 50 years ago. Wake up.

                     The policies that will be delivered are will signalled for this coming week. It's called a budget and comes around at the same time every year.
                 • McFlock …

                   27 February 2021 at 4:58 pm

                   Markets quite blatantly haven't been doing that for housing for years.
                   • Ad …

                     27 February 2021 at 5:05 pm

                     That's true for non-owners.
                   • McFlock …

                     27 February 2021 at 5:30 pm

                     So the government should step in.

                     Owning your own home isn't about an "asset class" or capital gains. Those are related to owning things.

                     But owning your home is about security. Stability. Self determination.
                 • Pat …

                   27 February 2021 at 7:38 pm

                   "I can't currently see a policy combination by any kind of NZ Government involving either Labour or National that would make other assets such as shares or business ownership to be more attractive than home ownership."

                   27 February 2021 at 1:10 pm

                   You cant see because you apparently dont know what to look for

                   27 February 2021 at 2:18 pm

                   the answer is staring everyone in the face….reject neo-liberalism.
               • mikesh …

                 27 February 2021 at 11:30 pm

                 The government should put a stop to the creation, out of nothing, of credit by the privately owned banks.
                 • Pat …

                   28 February 2021 at 8:24 am

                   They could but I suspect it wont occur until after the crash…the opportunity to nationalise the banks was avoided post 2008/9 however , so perhaps not. There is speculation that individual accounts with central banks is the future.
             • Muttonbird …

               27 February 2021 at 3:24 pm

               There a rumour, not from a reliable source unfortunately, that it'll be 20 years bright line and rents frozen then linked to CPI.

               Looking forward to it.
               • RedLogix …

                 27 February 2021 at 7:53 pm

                 Bright line test ? Don't care – I never intend to sell. And everyone else will just hold off selling until the deadline expires, meaning fewer homes for sale and a sellers market.

                 And if rents are frozen to levels below the cost of property ownership this will directly lead to a shortage of rentals. You may think this a good thing – until the day you need to move.

                 Interesting how all the things you want, all work against the people you claim to be helping. This is because problem you’re trying to fix has relatively little to do with the split between renting and owning – and the quite different question of the balance between people who want a home and the number available – and their price,
                 • Muttonbird …

                   27 February 2021 at 8:17 pm

                   Of course the benefit will not happen overnight even though you assume that's what all this is about.

                   A longer bright line test will capture tax on gains that is simply pocketed right now. This can be used to fund the local and national infrastructure required to develop properly because despite what you say, you cannot just magically build homes without means to get people to and from work and without decent local amenities. To load those costs onto new builds and developers means the cost of building goes up.

                   Another important point is while behaviours are being changed around property investing, which is a long process, security of tenure is hugely important and itself a step toward that change in behaviour. A longer bright line does mean less rental flipping as you've pointed out. Probably the only thing you got right.

                   And managed rents linked to the CPI means that returns can't fall below the cost of property ownership unless you are an over leveraged speculative investor or an incredible bad one. Once again, tenants should have to pay for the size of a cowboy's mortgage.

                   Interesting how whenever anyone goes near tenancy reform you start getting hot and bothered.
                   • mikesh …

                     27 February 2021 at 11:39 pm

                     A capital gain does not really increase the community's aggregate income, because the seller's gain is offset buy the buyers loss
             • Stuart Munro …

               27 February 2021 at 11:22 pm

               I can't currently see a policy combination by any kind of NZ Government involving either Labour or National that would make other assets such as shares or business ownership

               These balances are necessarily complex – but a relatively low cost measure would be legislating to improve the integrity of the NZSE. As it stands, low level investors would be wise to leave it the hell alone. Key of course did nothing to protect the equity of small investors. A stock market is not supposed to be a casino – it ought to reward productive investment and discourage all but the most statistically anomalous speculators. Been a long time since it operated in that fashion however.
           • Drowsy M. Kram 4.1.1.1.1.2

             27 February 2021 at 2:46 pm

             MB. Government is about maintaining and, where possible, improving quality of life (join the queue) with a view to stability/sustainability. Perhaps there should be a MP quota drawn from those 10% of NZers who have accumulated a collective $13 billion debt; debt that might be a barrier to becoming an MP.

             And maybe such a quota would foster greater political recognition and understanding of the need for transformative resilience to improve "intergenerational societal stability" (nice phrase that).

             Foster transformation

             Despite 25 years of extraordinary progress in human and social development, with a reduction in poverty, higher education standards, employment growth, rising incomes and increased longevity for hundreds of millions, Mr. Akram pointed out that “today, 26 people own half the world’s wealth”.

             And todays crisis has shone a stark light on existing vulnerabilities and inequalities. 

             “We need to foster transformative resilience by choosing policies that tackles high and rising inequality…[and] policies that empower people and communities to become more resilient and offer multiple opportunities for decent work and social and economic transformation”, the ECOSOC President stated.

             You can’t talk about disaster risk reduction without talking about inequality

             Time for transformative resilience: the COVID-19 emergency

             Towards transformative resilience: community, neighbourhood and system responses during the COVID-19 pandemic

             ‘Building Back Better’: Youth, Risk and Resilience in the coronavirus (COVID-19) Pandemic

             The Transformative Potential of Resilience Thinking: How It Could Transform Unsustainable Economic Rationalities

             Strengths and weaknesses of the 100 Resilient Cities Initiative in Southern Europe: Rome and Athens’ experiences

             In the following sections, the profiles of the two selected cities as well as the main common challenges they have to face have been briefly outlined. In detail, besides some general information related to their administrative demographic and morphological features, the main environmental and social criticalities (such as land take, soil sealing, population aging; etc.) as well as the main shocks and stresses the two cities suffered in the last years have been described in order to highlight why Rome and Athens can be considered as paradigmatic examples of the two main facets of “new urban question” (Secchi 2013): the impacts of climate change and the growing social inequalities.
       • mikesh 4.1.1.2

         27 February 2021 at 11:17 pm

         Not everybody who rents actually wants to own a house. but the trouble is that there are too many landlords for this relatively small market. A further problem is that many are mortgaged to the hilt and are able to avoid paying tax on their net income because the interest deductibility rort gobbles up their "book" profit.
   • KSaysHi 4.2

     27 February 2021 at 10:37 am

     Would have thought it's a govt responsibility to ensure opportunities for low income earners. Clickbait targeting frustrated renters.
     • Muttonbird 4.2.1

       27 February 2021 at 10:45 am

       It's a govt responsibility to ensure opportunities for low income earners.

       Great idea.
   • AB 4.3

     27 February 2021 at 10:53 am

     I think it would be better to call it an unethical system, rather than attribute it to unethical people. If we do that, the case for changing it is more easily made, and it doesn't get people's backs up. Plus it doesn't trigger long threads on TS where the usual suspects repeat the same arguments over and over…
     • Muttonbird 4.3.1

       27 February 2021 at 10:59 am

       Interesting, but can a system have ethics? People have good ethics or they don't and clearly in the case of property investors, they don't.

       JA infers as much here when she basically says 'people are bad and if you try stop them they become worse'

       "But, of course, whenever you're looking at what you could do to try and adjust people's decision-making, you've also got to keep in mind that, you know, simple ideas of caps and things, people can re-orientate the way they structure their investments to hide some of these issues. So it does become quite tricky.

       https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/02/property-investors-making-it-so-much-worse-for-others-in-overheated-housing-market-jacinda-ardern.html
       • AB 4.3.1.1

         27 February 2021 at 11:23 am

         I don't think you can readily change people's minds or behaviour by telling them how bad they are. And many landlords and investors will be ordinary people like you and me, who are making quite rational financial decisions – given the way the system is set up.
         • Muttonbird 4.3.1.1.1

           27 February 2021 at 11:43 am

           Yes, we are taught greed is good and most do not for a moment accept their actions aren't good for society as a whole.
           • greywarshark 4.3.1.1.1.1

             27 February 2021 at 12:30 pm

             Stuff recent article – only available through Reddit so far!

             Nearly 80 per cent of landlords own just one property, data shows

             So controls on the other 20% ir seek actual number over two rental properties, and then tailor demands, control the rack–renters who should be dealt to and surveilled, and charge levies that pay for inspections on houses, and a call centre for people struggling to get repairs, have a livable house with decent services.
     • greywarshark 4.3.2

       27 February 2021 at 1:23 pm

       AB – Huic Sapientia Vinum and further – in Vino Veritas etc.
     • Ad 4.3.3

       27 February 2021 at 3:14 pm

       It's an immoral world, let alone an unethical 'system'.
5. Anker 5

   27 February 2021 at 10:32 am

   • Completely agree re landlords. Good to know at least one is conflicted.
   • as posted previously I could easily afford a rental, but I hate the idea that I am depriving first home buyers. If I did buy something it would be to help family.

   on a different note I see a 501 who killed two women in Australia has just been charged with sexual assault and sent to jail for 16 years.

   for the legal types amongst us surely NZ can change our law to prevent these people being shipped here. 2000 and counting……Oz isn’t going to drop their policy, we need to take responsibility and do whatever we can do to halt it…..but maybe there is nothing we can do?
   • Muttonbird 5.1

     27 February 2021 at 11:59 am

     There'll be a point when Australia realise that the consequences of their policy outweigh the benefits.

     That will be when they have damaged the trans-Tasman relationship badly enough for it to begin to affect them negatively.

     Eventually they'll have to decide whether it is worth it.
6. greywarshark 6

   27 February 2021 at 11:48 am

   Looking at how we are going with our Covid19 responses and controls.

   Gordon Campbell on Werewolf published on Scoop has had a look at the Ministry of Health and saliva testing and updates in a thoughtful and balanced way.

   https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2102/S00112/on-the-rivals-for-the-covid-saliva-testing-dollar.htm
7. Brigid 7

   27 February 2021 at 12:34 pm

   https://en.mehrnews.com/news/170404/Russian-FM-condemns-US-airstrike-in-Syria

   "Earlier, Russian senator Vladimir Dzhabarov, First Deputy Chair of the Federation Council Committee on Foreign Affairs, warned such actions could lead to a major conflict and that Syria has advanced weapons, including the S-300, and that Americans should be very careful."
   • McFlock 7.1

     27 February 2021 at 5:04 pm

     In other words, "if you bomb Iran's proxy that our proxy is letting live there, we might let our proxy shoot down your jets because our shit is cooler than your shit".

     It's kind of nice to be back watching the old dance again, rather than everyone being in uncharted geopolitical territory.
8. Muttonbird 8

   27 February 2021 at 12:52 pm

   Tangaru Turia, 34, was six months old when he left New Zealand, living in Australia until he was deported in 2017. Turia was shot dead by police while "brandishing" a shotgun.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/papatoetoe-police-shooting-the-501-killed-four-years-from-deportation-to-death-and-his-final-words-to-his-son/EHZ6P47JNADQ7D35B3NGWPEOQQ/
   • Peter chch 8.1

     27 February 2021 at 1:17 pm

     Well I guess now both Australia and NZ are better places. Harsh, but true. I have zero sympathy for people who did what he was doing in Australia (and doubtlessly here too).
     • Muttonbird 8.1.1

       27 February 2021 at 1:33 pm

       Are his kids better off? Y’know the ones he was trying to stay in touch with via FaceTime?

       Did you read the article? Mental health issues for some time. Sure, he got kicked out for domestic violence. The article doesn't say what other convictions he had there but don't let that stop you speculating.

       The point is Australia exacerbated an already serious situation in the worst possible way for people in both countries, and especially for his young family.

       Whatever chance at rehabilitation he had went out the window with Scott Morrison’s deportation policy.
       • Peter chch 8.1.1.1

         27 February 2021 at 1:52 pm

         We really do not know if his children are better off or not, but quite possibly they are.

         And no, I am not speculating about other convictions. Just do a Google search for his Australian time. Yeah, mental health issues but that's what his lifestyle in Australia invariably leads to.

         Rehabilitation is really a little late, and how many ever truly rehabilitate? Drug rehabs are incredibly ineffective. Very sad for his family I know, but I well understand yhe desire of Australia to shift out their problems.
         • Muttonbird 8.1.1.1.1

           27 February 2021 at 2:25 pm

           Of course you do. Shifting and ignoring problems is how a lot people operate.

           This policy is not sustainable though because as Jacinda Ardern says, it is corrosive. By definition, corrosion ends in destruction.
     • greywarshark 8.1.2

       27 February 2021 at 1:55 pm

       Trigger-happy people are dangerous, guns shoot people and males get high on guns more than females. Police tried the careful approach to a guman in Aramoana and lost out.

       There has to be a better program for these 'lost boys' sent away from home by the sleazy-peazy Australian government wanting to slide out of their failures to integrate people. We are much the same here, but we haven't the option to pass the parcel. So let's have a sensible program, and give them something to ground them here, ability to turn their lives around and have a regular earning job and still keep in touch with there. Perhaps if the rehab was successful some returnees could help in working with our crims here on the basis 'If I can remake my life so can you'. And bring in a visa system so we can keep track of what goes from here to there and vice versa. It would help if we knew how much vice is travelling over the Tasman!

       We would be wise to remember the reign of the 1970's drug ring and name Mr Asia who was Marty Johnstone, our well-educated drug thug along with his compatriots who graduated from NZ to bigger things in Australia. Our hands aren't completely clean. This from journalist Pat Booth, the Nicky Hager of that time. https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/manukau-courier/opinion/2163928/Mr-Asia-the-real-inside-story

       Interesting how someone can be found to give a crim a good report. 'Rude but Harmless' WTF. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3727751/Rude-but-harmless-the-real-Mr-Asia

       Johnstone killed on Clark's orders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Clark_(drug_smuggler)#Career
     • McFlock 8.1.3

       27 February 2021 at 5:13 pm

       Harsh and fucked up, more like.
     • Morrissey 8.1.4

       27 February 2021 at 6:52 pm

       You are not only ignorant, you're disgusting.
   • McFlock 8.2

     27 February 2021 at 5:09 pm

     Trying to live in a strange land while having auditory hallucinations constantly harrassing you for years? Jesus.

     This guy was failed by governments on both sides of the Tasman.
     • Muttonbird 8.2.1

       27 February 2021 at 5:52 pm

       Yep. Add to that not being able to see your kids, forever.

       Now he is dead.
       • Peter chch 8.2.1.1

         27 February 2021 at 10:09 pm

         Better him than his numerous victims. He has only himself to blame, unlike his victims.

         501 for very very good reasons. Good ridinance.
         • Muttonbird 8.2.1.1.1

           27 February 2021 at 10:29 pm

           Are you trying and convicting him for murders he hasn't committed?

           Quite the Nostradamus, aren't you.
           • Morrissey 8.2.1.1.1.1

             27 February 2021 at 10:32 pm

             He's no Nostradamus. He's something far more malevolent, and ugly.
             • Muttonbird …

               27 February 2021 at 10:39 pm

               You can take the man out of Christchurch…
               • Morrissey …

                 27 February 2021 at 10:40 pm

                 I know a lot of people from Christchurch. Not one of them is as nasty and ignorant as this fellow.
                 • Incognito …

                   27 February 2021 at 10:43 pm

                   Can Muttonbird and you please drop the ad homs, thanks.
                   • Morrissey …

                     27 February 2021 at 10:45 pm

                     Sure. No problem.
                   • Incognito []

                     27 February 2021 at 10:48 pm

                     Ta

                     Stay safe and well.
               • Incognito …

                 27 February 2021 at 10:40 pm

                 Can Morrissey and you please drop the ad homs, thanks.
                 • Muttonbird …

                   27 February 2021 at 10:44 pm

                   Ok. Just want to say,

                   Good ridinance.
         • McFlock 8.2.1.1.2

           27 February 2021 at 11:31 pm

           Seems to be a fair chance that untreated (or unsuccessfully treated) mental health issues didn't help the matter, but I doubt anyone will be clamouring for a review into his care.
9. Incognito 9

   27 February 2021 at 1:16 pm

   Despite all the dirt-digging attempts, they found nothing but that wasn’t really the point, was it?

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/437256/visa-for-green-mp-s-partner-like-any-other-immigration-nz-says
   • roy cartland 9.1

     27 February 2021 at 1:27 pm

     That story has been on the news for a week or more, and it's still as boring as ever.

     And shouldn't a politician want to get back to work earlier than most, given he's on the public dime? I know I would.
   • Muttonbird 9.2

     27 February 2021 at 1:35 pm

     I think that backfired spectacularly on Bishop and National.

     Once it was known he had family health issues over there you'd think they'd lay off but no, double down on the mean-spirited attack was the answer.
     • Incognito 9.2.1

       27 February 2021 at 2:29 pm

       Bishop is a busy boy, but he has to keep up with the other busy bad boy Bridges, who apparently only listens to his wife [how sweet].

       Bishop is still gunning for Mallard and there is the reoccurring Motion of No Confidence in the House.

       https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/124376188/chris-bishop-asks-for-defamation-claim-document-to-check-trevor-mallards-veracity

       National is as shambolic as ever and ACT ill gain a few more seats at the next Election, if this continues.
       • woodart 9.2.1.1

         27 February 2021 at 3:20 pm

         nats are stuck in the past. even the women in the nats are old white men in disguise. crusher has tried to turn into cushla, but bridges and bishop havent read the memo. you would have thought that bridges would have learnt from last years disaster, when his attack and negativety led to his dumping by his own troops. possibly bridges is the sort of person who CANT learn, and is condemed to repeat the same mistakes over and over. bishop should be young enough to learn, but possibly his inbuilt arrogance will also stop him from learning.
     • Peter 9.2.2

       27 February 2021 at 3:52 pm

       Did it backfire on Bishop and National? They had a moment in the sun feeding their supporters and the anti-Labour brigade. It had those groups energised and frothing at the mouth. All good. It's the sort style of ignorant energy which lives on and nourishes cretins.
       • Muttonbird 9.2.2.1

         27 February 2021 at 3:58 pm

         It is incredible that in the post Key years National have settled on this; Collins, Bishop, Bridges, Mitchell, and Goodfellow. A callous and evil hive of desperados.

         Not much of a clear-out, was it.
   • alwyn 9.3

     27 February 2021 at 1:57 pm

     "Immigration New Zealand is standing by its decision to grant a visa to the partner of Green MP Ricardo Menéndez March and says the application was treated "like any other".

     Why am I reminded of the immortal response of Mandy Rice0Davies when she was told that Lord Astor had denied having an affair with her? The words she used are generally quoted as "Well he would, wouldn't he".

     The same seems likely from the Immigration Department if they were asked whether they had done anything unusual, regardless of what they might have done.

     It was also, according to Bob Woodward when talking about Donald Trump's reaction to complaints about his actions with women, also Trump's line.

     "When accused of sexual assault or other misdeeds by women, President Trump says you've got to "deny, deny, deny," according to Bob"

     Who knows what happened.
     • Incognito 9.3.1

       27 February 2021 at 2:14 pm

       

       You’re as predictable as an old broken record or an old dog that starts drooling upon hearing a certain whistle, hence the term.

       Do you know many times you have mentioned good old Mandy here since 2012?

       Just as the others, you don’t care at all about “what happened”, it just provides you with a nice opportunistic pivot point that you simply cannot resist. I had you in mind with my comment and you did not disappoint.

       Of course, you did not address one single point in the link, as I expected too.

       Woof woof Bye
     • Ad 9.3.2

       27 February 2021 at 3:18 pm

       Ricardo is getting a pass this time. After this, all bets are off.
     • woodart 9.3.3

       27 February 2021 at 3:23 pm

       the fact that there is no evidence of misconduct is evidence of misconduct eh alwhinge? do you buy your tinhats singly or in lots of ten?
       • Barfly 9.3.3.1

         27 February 2021 at 3:32 pm

         Recycle your pie dishes !
     • Peter 9.3.4

       27 February 2021 at 3:54 pm

       Yeah, who knows what happened, but bugger it, we've picked the tree, we've got the rope, let's do it eh.

       Jesus wept.
       • alwyn 9.3.4.1

         27 February 2021 at 7:00 pm

         I wonder if the families of these, genuinely critical, workers were "invited to apply for a visa"?

         PM Ardern tells Faafoi to look at 'anything more we can do' to reunite critical migrant health workers with families (msn.com)

         I do rather expect not. Still a pal for a Green MP is both essential and needs to get in promptly,
         • Drowsy M. Kram 9.3.4.1.1

           27 February 2021 at 7:37 pm

           Still a pal for a Green MP is both essential and needs to get in promptly,

           What were you trying to say alwyn? Did you run out of time?

           Green MP Ricardo Menéndez March turned down for special exemption for MIQ place

           Scuzzy behaviour from Collins imho, but it’s in her nature.

           Addendum: This column was drafted before the events involving Andrew Falloon and Iain Lees-Galloway. It has not been rewritten.. However, I must add this. The column tries hard to be fair towards Judith Collins; after all it is really about wider issues than her. But the way she dealt with the Lees-Galloway allegations was inappropriate. She was right to pass her knowledge on to Jacinda Ardern, as the prime minister had done to her over Falloon. She was wrong to announce she had done so (on morning radio) before the Prime Minister had publicly dealt with the information. In contrast Ardern waited until Collins had made her Falloon announcement before explaining her involvement. Collins’ timing has the hallmarks of a Whale Oil counterpuncher. It does not promise a clean election.
           • alwyn 9.3.4.1.1.1

             27 February 2021 at 8:36 pm

             No I wasn't talking about him getting into the MIQ facility.

             I was talking about him having been invited to apply for an immigration visa.

             "Menéndez March's partner was invited to apply for a visa on December 3 last year and a six-month visa was granted on January 11."

             "Immigration NZ head Greg Patchell said he would look into it, telling Stanford: "In the situation you've described… it probably wouldn't meet the criteria."

             The of course Immigration decided that everything was fine

             https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/02/green-mp-ricardo-men-ndez-march-cleared-of-doubt-over-partner-s-visa-by-immigration-nz.html
             • Incognito …

               27 February 2021 at 8:49 pm

               You’re so tedious

               One receives an invitation after a preliminary assessment has been made. It is a formality using formal language.

               For the legal context: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2009/0051/32.0/DLM1440722.html
             • Drowsy M. Kram …

               27 February 2021 at 11:40 pm

               Still a pal for a Green MP is both essential and needs to get in promptly,

               So you were referring to a Green MP's partner – why not just say that, pal?
               • alwyn …

                 27 February 2021 at 11:57 pm

                 And there was I thinking they were friends.

                 Does Senor March only regard it as a business relationship, as in "They were partners in the law firm"? How unromantic.
                 • McFlock …

                   28 February 2021 at 12:21 am

                   Nobody gives a damn what you think about their relationship. It was good enough for immigration NZ, so it's unimportant if you are unable to get your head around two guys being in a romantic relationship.
                 • Drowsy M. Kram …

                   28 February 2021 at 11:22 am

                   And there was I thinking they were friends.

                   Is that you, Senor Banks? Well howdy, partner

                   Apparently you're having some 'difficulty' with the meaning of the word 'partner' in context – now why might that be?

                   Mind you, kudos to The Herald for that sly "green tick" – seems to me that "green light" would have been the more natural choice.
         • Incognito 9.3.4.1.2

           27 February 2021 at 8:39 pm

           Still a pal for a Green MP is both essential and needs to get in promptly, [sic]

           As usual, you’re making up BS and you’re now just trolling. You’ve also twisted the quoted text “the partner of Green MP Ricardo Menéndez March” in your own comment @ 9.3 to “a pal for a Green MP”. Your narrative is pathetic. Get a hobby, soon!
10. greywarshark 10

    27 February 2021 at 2:12 pm

    Monday thoughts: My Food Bag's offer is food for thought …
    http://www.stuff.co.nz › business › opinion-analysis › monday-t…
    My Food Bag plans to sell up to 185 million shares, valuing the company at just under $450 million. In terms of … 15/02/2021

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/my-food-bag-seeks-up-to-342m-in-ipo-sets-march-5-date-for-dual-listing/H4KS4GW5NFNE5F35JY3LBLML5Y/
    Companies Office records show the Waterman Fund 3LP owns 70 per cent of the company having invested in October 2016.
    Co-founders Cecilia Robinson and her husband James own 10.8 per cent, as does Theresa Gattung. Interests associated with Nadia Lim own 5.4 per cent.
    My Food Bag says more than 10,000 customers and team members have registered to receive a priority allocation in the IPO. Australian investors were also targeted.

    There is money in supplying the hard-working middle and upper class with profits to be made. And there is some advance in government assisting with food at schools for hard-p0ressed parents.

    There are these – Feeding over 30,000 hungry children every week at school being helped by KidsCan and others. https://www.kidscan.org.nz/our-work/food-for-kids

    and – Free lunches for school kids, Government announces | Stuff.co …www.stuff.co.nz › national › politics › free-lunches-for-sc…
    29/08/2019 — Jacinda Ardern announces initiative that will see kids at 30 schools … is rolling this school lunch programme out to the kids in New Zealand …

    and

    PM Jacinda Ardern serves up first of many free school lunches …www.rnz.co.nz › news › national › pm-jacinda-ardern-s…
    20/02/2020 — Thousands of children have begun receiving a free lunch on every day of the … Official figures show one in 10 children in New Zealand live in material … The $45 million free school lunch programme is one of 75 initiatives …
    • Ad 10.1

      27 February 2021 at 3:17 pm

      Not everyone has the time to make a dinner from scratch.

      MyFoodBag is one of many that are making it more competitive to avoid takeaways.
    • David 10.2

      27 February 2021 at 4:05 pm

      Private business makes money selling food. Shock, horror. How dare they!
11. greywarshark 11

    27 February 2021 at 8:00 pm

    What a pathetic response. Simple minded D. stating the obvious, can't think beyond it and so proud of a thought that he/she has to write in and show us. The point is that private business can be built on the good incomes that people at the higher salary range can afford, and it could be said it is being built on the deficit of the wages being paid to the strugglers. Why wouldn't private business be built on their needs. Because they can't afford this type of food because they don't get paid enough.

    Aristocrats and peasants again!! We had been working hard in society to help the lower income people to get education skills and a happy place in society. So D. got that!

    And Ad you show a crack in your understanding of society's needs again. The takeaway shops are micro businesses that some people get into to provide for their family and work hard for themselves. The shutting down of NZ busin ess by Labour free marketers striding forward like Greek heroes, not, leaves pople searching for a place to fit into the NZ economy, so poorly run that extremes of inflation are not registered in official statistics on which so much of our microeconomic measures are based. I go to a number of takeaways and support such people, and they are glad to see me.
12. RedLogix 12

    27 February 2021 at 8:01 pm

    I don't know how to recommend this enough – if you have the time that is. A deep dive into the ways the big tech social media companies are fucking us up. It won't be everyone's taste, but I found it pretty special:
13. greywarshark 13

    27 February 2021 at 8:02 pm

    Luxon showing Labour Right attitudes – perhaps the kinder face of Gnashional from Collins? The bad cop – good cop ploy?

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/437289/social-media-criticism-of-family-caught-up-in-covid-19-outbreak-unhelpful-mp-says

    Health officials have discovered that two – now-positive – cases of one family went to work and visited a vape store when they were supposed to be isolating at home.

    The family also hosted a private home viewing.

    Botany MP Christopher Luxon said would-be critics should focus their efforts on keeping the virus at bay.

    "We don't know the full facts of the situation, that's really the government and the health officials that will be aware of all of those.
    • Muttonbird 13.1

      27 February 2021 at 9:06 pm

      I'm surprised there wasn't more wrap around for this family or why they weren't in managed isolation.

      Or if they were casual contacts and told to self isolate, why they didn’t.

      Could cost Auckland a lot…

      …and it has. Seven days at level 3.
    • Poission 13.2

      27 February 2021 at 9:23 pm

      The facts are they should have been in isolation, no exceptions,no excuses.
      • RosieLee 13.2.1

        27 February 2021 at 9:43 pm

        Name them, shame them and prosecute them.
      • Anne 13.2.2

        27 February 2021 at 9:47 pm

        It transpires the young man went to a doctor who gave him a Covid test and he then went on to a gym. How's that for stupidity. It is becoming clear there is a group of young people who cannot be trusted to do the right thing.

        Someone needs to be made an example of, in the hope it brings these idiots to their senses.
        • Poission 13.2.2.1

          27 February 2021 at 10:03 pm

          The Dr would have reminded the person of their statutory responsibilities (being a contact plus)

          As there are now a number of self isolation breaches,the AK cordon zone exemption for permitted travel needs to be very restricted,which may include flight constraints (including mps)
14. georgecom 14

    27 February 2021 at 9:38 pm

    collective responsibility, we all do the right thing to ensure the benefit of all. When one person doesn't do the right thing they place everyone at risk. I think Ardern is being too easy on the people who have failed to do the right thing. My view of them is a whole lot less charitable. Act like a clown or a dick and we are all at risk, a week of level 3 risk. And yes, maybe there were reasons why people felt compelled for the need to go to work. Self isolating might have cost some people money. Well the week of level 3 is going to cost a whole lot more people money. Sure, it can be tough isolating. It's going to be tough for the employers and employees now having a week or reduced or no income. Pretty simple, if you are told to isolate do it rather than be an arse.
    • RosieLee 14.1

      27 February 2021 at 9:44 pm

      Name them, shame them and prosecute them.
      • Forget now 14.1.1

        27 February 2021 at 10:18 pm

        To what end, Rosielee? I think Ardern had the correct line about not increasing barriers to testing:

        we still need an environment where people will speak, come forward and be tested and if people are afraid and they are shamed and vilified, they won't."

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/437321/covid-19-auckland-back-to-alert-level-three-after-new-community-cases-revealed
      • georgecom 14.1.2

        27 February 2021 at 10:25 pm

        unless there are mitigating circumstances that meant the non isolators were totally unaware and genuinely ignorant, then a visit from the police is probably in order and a pretty strong message about doing the right thing. make it crystal clear for the people that no one is impressed.
        • Anne 14.1.2.1

          27 February 2021 at 10:39 pm

          Spot on georgecom. A visit from the police. Read the riot act. Tell them what isolation means and if they're caught doing it again they're going to be in big trouble. The only language some people understand.
        • Gabby 14.1.2.2

          28 February 2021 at 10:31 am

          Depending on the family dynamic, it's possible h was told to get his arse in to work no ifs no buts.
          • georgecom 14.1.2.2.1

            28 February 2021 at 12:46 pm

            and the gym rang the person and told them to get their arse down for a workout, no ifs no buts?
    • Muttonbird 14.2

      27 February 2021 at 9:45 pm

      The new case went to the GP in the afternoon yesterday for a Covid test – they went to the gym after that.

      
      • Treetop 14.2.1

        27 February 2021 at 10:21 pm

        I am not surprised at all that the situation regarding Covid is what it is. Since Tuesday Covid has been unravelling due to who could be infectious.

        Someone text me yesterday, the government better pray they get lucky again.

        Our luck has not held, due to the importance of isolating and being clear on why it must be done.

        Testing is important as well, had today's case not have gone for a test we would be none the wiser.

        See what the genome sequencing finds.
      • Morrissey 14.2.2

        27 February 2021 at 10:37 pm

        The new case went to the GP in the afternoon yesterday for a Covid test – they [sic] went to the gym after that.

        CORRECTION: he went to the gym after that.
        • Treetop 14.2.2.1

          27 February 2021 at 10:55 pm

          There are a lot of locations of interest whenever there is a community case and foolish to think that the rest of the country is not immune.

          Going to the gym cannot be erased, it can only be contact traced.

          I am going to bed I cannot tell the difference between Muttonbird and Morrissey.
          • Morrissey 14.2.2.1.1

            27 February 2021 at 11:00 pm

            I am going to bed I cannot tell the difference between Muttonbird and Morrissey.

            Contrary to popular opinion, I am not running Muttonbird as a sock-puppet. He may have been to visit moi at Chez Breen, but that is something we can neither confirm nor deny.
15. Ad 15

    27 February 2021 at 9:59 pm

    Hang in there Aucklanders.

    Great week to get fit!
    • Incognito 15.1

      27 February 2021 at 10:39 pm

      A whole lot of people can’t go to the gym because one person went to the gym with his nasal swab still firmly lodged in his brain
16. Muttonbird 16

    27 February 2021 at 10:00 pm

    You don't know their story.

    – Papatoetoe High School principal

    We do know their story. They are a family of dangerous idiots.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/02/covid-19-papatoetoe-high-school-principal-defends-community-case-who-breached-rules-to-work-at-kfc.html
    • georgecom 16.1

      27 February 2021 at 10:22 pm

      "You don't know their story, you don't know what it's like to be a person unless you've walked in their shoes.

      "We don't know whether the teenagers have to go to work because they're the only income-earners in the family, we don't know if there's any other truma that the family's experience – we don't know any of that stuff.

      sure, financial pressures might be telling. I am sure many business owners in Auckland will be feeling that this week. I am sure many of the people who had to isolate from Kmart and KFC were feeling financial pressures. Simple fact really though, the "traumas" a family might have been "experiencing" is now going to be "trauma" a great many more people are forced to "experience".
17. Anker 17

    27 February 2021 at 10:35 pm

    • Not a lot of sympathy for people who break the rules. Maybe charge them, with heavy name suppression as we don’t want vigilantes.

    only excuse is if the kfc person was desperate for the money. But the 21 year old going to the gym ffs. Maybe should be made to watch interviews with people whose businesses are on the edge because of the shift of levels. Lots of them
    • Muttonbird 17.1

      27 February 2021 at 10:43 pm

      There's support money available from MSD. Health/govt services should have walked them through them application it if they were incapable of doing it themselves.
      • Herodotus 17.1.1

        27 February 2021 at 10:55 pm

        MSD should have been IMO contacted all Papatoetoe High School families when the school closed and all families were to be tested and isolate (I have not read that they did), with what support is available and contact number/emails on contacting staff to assist any and all queries. And the govt making it as easy as possible for any financial assistance and fast tracking all payments to ease any financial stress. Then family members hopefully would not feel inclined to jeopardise being in level 1. As our PM said it is not their fault (Don't agree totally with her there e.g. Gym goer etc)
      • McFlock 17.1.2

        27 February 2021 at 11:27 pm

        Well, the government shouldn't need covid to proactively go out and offer money to people who might need it, or help them with applications.
18. joe90 18

    27 February 2021 at 11:52 pm

    Those wacky conservatives and their runes

    /

    Having worked with Norse and Elder Futhark iconography for years, I’m quite alert to the glyph shapes and their associations in the modern world and history.

    So, why is the #CPAC2021 stage an Odal rune, and specifically one with serifs (or wings) that was used by the SS? pic.twitter.com/gc4HhtGA3n

    — Hami (@hami) February 26, 2021

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/2/26/2018354/-Why-the-Odal-Othala-Rune-Used-By-CPAC-is-100-Explicitly-a-Nazi-Symbol
    • McFlock 18.1

      28 February 2021 at 12:24 am

      Sigh.
19. Jester 19

    28 February 2021 at 1:06 am

    So some idiot gets his covid test and then decides to go the gym without waiting for the results!

    Video of Papatoetoe next week:

    Fuel Air Bomb _ Outbreak 1995 720p – YouTube

    But in all seriousness, I do hope the police go round and have some stern words with them. They need to know that because of them Auckland is now at level 2 and how much it will cost businesses/people.
    • McFlock 19.1

      28 February 2021 at 1:31 am

      That was such a shit movie. Contagion was much better.
      • Jester 19.1.1

        28 February 2021 at 1:58 am

        I thought it was pretty good for 1995. But, yes Contagion is better IMO too.
20. Eco Maori 20

    28 February 2021 at 12:59 pm
21. Eco Maori 21

    1 March 2021 at 11:18 am

    Wow marked cop car are swarming around me
22. Eco Maori 22

    1 March 2021 at 11:51 am
23. Eco Maori 23

    1 March 2021 at 2:24 pm

    The biggest gang in NZ has their undies in A knot whanau must be because my last waiata rings TRUE.

    Ka kite Ano

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