Open Mike 27/06/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 27th, 2018 - 145 comments
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145 comments on “Open Mike 27/06/2018 ”

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  1. Ed 1
    27 June 2018 at 6:48 am

    Blair Ensor, Stuff’s Auckland editor, nails it in this tweet.

    ‘Sobering.’

    “Every time you sit down to a plant-based meal instead of an animal-based meal, you save about 280 gallons of water and protect anywhere from 12 to 50 square feet of land from deforestation, overgrazing, and pesticide and fertilizer pollution.”

    https://www.thoughtco.com/important-things-to-do-for-the-environment-1203550

    • Baba Yaga 1.1
      27 June 2018 at 7:37 am

      Yeah but just think of the thick juicy steak you’re missing out on.

      • mauī 1.1.1
        27 June 2018 at 7:48 am

        I think you’re incorrect there, Ed feasts on baby Yagyu steaks most mornings.

      • marty mars 1.1.2
        27 June 2018 at 7:51 am

        “Yeah but just think of the thick juicy steak you’re missing out on.”

        ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

        did you think of that original wit yourself numbnuts?

      • solkta 1.1.3
        27 June 2018 at 8:00 am

        Just think of the ethics consciousness and critical thinking that you are missing out on. Oh wait, you can’t.

        • Baba Yaga 1.1.3.1
          27 June 2018 at 4:23 pm

          ‘Ethics consciousness’? Spare me your lecture. Animals provide humans with food. Yummy food.

          • Ed 1.1.3.1.1
            27 June 2018 at 8:44 pm

            98% of that food is provided through industrial factory farming, a process that causes untold suffering and cruelty to animals.
            Why don’t you do just a tiny bit of research?

            Psychopaths care just as little about humans.
            As long as that thing they buy is cheap, who cares if it’s made by a slave or a child in wretched conditions?

            Just as long as the meat is yummy and the clothes are cool, eh?

            • Baba Yaga 1.1.3.1.1.1
              28 June 2018 at 11:26 am

              “98% of that food is provided through industrial factory farming, a process that causes untold suffering and cruelty to animals.”

              Cite? And nothing from the sandal wearing brigade. Sound, scientific research only.

      • Ankerawshark 1.1.4
        27 June 2018 at 8:03 am

        Just think of how much you are reducing your risk of bowel cancer by not eating the steak (if you are too selfish to think about your impact on the planet)

      • Gabby 1.1.5
        27 June 2018 at 12:18 pm

        Yeah but imagine fitting into a single seat again babby gagga.

    • marty mars 1.2
      27 June 2018 at 7:49 am

      and

      Scientists have long studied the impact of food production on climate change. For example, one recent study found that substituting beans for beef could slash greenhouse gas emissions. Another recommended substituting meat with edible insects, such as crickets and mealworms. But those were focused only on humans.

      Okin’s computations were based on the number of pets in the United States, and the ingredients in market-leading pet foods. He found that the nation’s dogs and cats eat about 25 percent of the total calories derived from animals in this country. If the nation’s 163 million pooches and kitties formed their own nation, it would rank fifth in global meat consumption, behind Russia, Brazil, the United States and China, Okin says.

      https://www.popsci.com/cat-dog-pet-food-environmental-impact

    • Wayne 1.3
      27 June 2018 at 8:24 am

      Most cattle and sheep country in NZ is not suitable for crops, so you have saved nothing at all by eating a plant based meal.

      • AsleepWhileWalking 1.3.1
        27 June 2018 at 8:33 am

        Please excuse my suburban ignorance of farming and plants in general, but surely it grows grass?

        • Wayne 1.3.1.1
          27 June 2018 at 8:38 am

          Hmm, yes our hill country does grow grass, which the beef and sheep eat. But I presume you are not suggesting we eat grass, (aside from the fact the land is too steep for it to be harvested anyway).

          • Robert Guyton 1.3.1.1.1
            27 June 2018 at 3:10 pm

            Our hill country grows grass because its varied tree and shrub, vine and herb natural vegetation was cleared in order to grow … grass. Replacing that grass with a new variation of the trees and shrubs etc. that can support humans would be a very good idea, Imo.

        • Puckish Rogue 1.3.1.2
          27 June 2018 at 8:39 am

          My take on it is that for a farmer to grow crops on a scale needed to make some money they’d need mostly flat land needing little in the way of conversion whereas theres a helluva lot of high country, hilly country that just wouldn’t be economically viable to go from sheep,beef, diary etc to cropping

          However I’m a suburbanite as well so I might be completely off the mark

          • Gosman 1.3.1.2.1
            27 June 2018 at 9:28 am

            I believe you are on the mark and that would be why hillsides that are cultivated in places in Asia are terraced. I am interested to see if the Greens want to terrace our hill country farms.

            • Puckish Rogue 1.3.1.2.1.1
              27 June 2018 at 9:45 am

              I’d like to hear a farmers take on this (bwaghorn maybe) but imagine trying to get some of those huge farm machines on the side of a hill, would not be cheap or fun I’d be betting

              • bwaghorn …
                27 June 2018 at 11:29 am

                Dairy has pushed sheep and beef into the hills in the last twenty years . Used to be a lot of s/b on flatland down south.
                Manuka of late and pines for the last 30 years is pushing s/b out of the steeper terrain.
                Interestingly even though ewe numbers have halved in 50 years we still export about the same amount of lamb .
                Now if only the greenies brought the fantastic renewable fire proof product that wool is we would be sweet.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  27 June 2018 at 11:39 am

                  Thanks for the reply and would you mind if i picked your brain a little bit more because I’d like your opinion on this:

                  I’m thinking it wouldn’t be economical to get the infrastructure set up for planting crops on NZs hillsides because it would take more roads to be built to get the machinery to the crops plus the machinery itself would be another massive undertaking due to the amounts of crops needed to make any money

                  But because I’m a townie I’m assuming there’d be more costs involved that I haven’t even considered (more fertiliser maybe or even less money for crops because of increased demand?) so is there anything else?

                  • bwaghorn …
                    27 June 2018 at 11:49 am

                    Some sheep cockiess do what dubbed spray and pray ie spray the pasture then aerial spread swedes and kale seed . Then pray for rain at the right time in the right amount . It would be a bugger to harvest .
                    Like you say it would be a huge undertaking to try for a harvestable crop . Other than pines and as we are seeing that’s not that great when harvested in a high rain fall environment.
                    Any way must away it’s Brazilian day for some of the girls

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      27 June 2018 at 11:51 am

                      Cheers for that

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      27 June 2018 at 2:43 pm

                      “It would be a bugger to harvest” – best send hoofed animals up there then, to carefully extract those swedes without damaging the soil…hang on!

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      27 June 2018 at 2:47 pm

                      More likely would eat the swedes 🙂

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      27 June 2018 at 2:57 pm

                      You wouldn’t want to eat the modern “wooden” swedes – the old Doon Majors are/were delicious. You’d also want to avoid the herbicide tolerant swedes that killed and maimed hundreds of dairy cattle when it was planted in the South in recent times.

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      27 June 2018 at 3:05 pm

                      Coming from Southland I bow to your greater knowledge of swedes 🙂

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    27 June 2018 at 2:50 pm

                    If there were villages nearby, the planting and harvest would provide employment for the villagers. Why harvest with huge machines? Simpler machines could efficiently and with regard to soil conservation, be utilised by the villagers. It depends upon what “crops” you are talking about; perhaps defining that would help the discussion; tree crops? Planting can effectively be done by hand, as can many harvests. If the crops were diverse, many tasks would need to be done to manage them and people are the best “tools” for multitasking like that. Who wouldn’t love to live in a village in the hills, with your family and friends, planting and harvesting a range of annual, biennial and perennial crops seasonally that could be sold locally, regionally, nationally and internationally (in that order) to create healthy, satisfying lives for those who love life outside of the city 🙂

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      27 June 2018 at 2:58 pm

                      Well since the thread was talking about eating I was more referencing crops for eating, replacing sheep and beef and that

                      “Who wouldn’t love to live in a village in the hills, with your family and friends, planting and harvesting a range of annual, biennial and perennial crops seasonally that could be sold locally, regionally, nationally and internationally (in that order) to create healthy, satisfying lives for those who love life outside of the city”

                      It sounds like a great idea for those that’re into it but I’m guessing the price for said vegetables would massively increase and put the prices even more out of reach for poorer people

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      27 June 2018 at 3:07 pm

                      Crops for eating? Hazel nuts, walnuts, sweet chestnuts, almonds, apples, pears, plums, apricots, peaches, gooseberries, currants, blueberries, cranberries, raspberries, strawberries, grapes, Yukon, artichokes, potatoes, ulluco, cardoon, rhubarb, beets, turnips, pumpkins…should I go on? Why would the price of veggies go up for those growing them? If city folk had to pay a fair price for their vegetables and fruits, why is that a concern? Grown without poisons sprays, their health would be far better, saving them a small fortune in medical bills and saving employers a great deal with regard down-time through sickness.

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      27 June 2018 at 3:54 pm

                      ‘Why would the price of veggies go up for those growing them?’
                      – Supply and demand, unless you can match the current growing production there’ll less produce and if theres less supply the demand is greater (I’m sure you already know this 😉 )

                      ‘If city folk had to pay a fair price for their vegetables and fruits, why is that a concern?’

                      – As I’ve been told numerous times on this site poor people can’t afford to eat fresh fruit and vegetables as it is so by paying a fair price you’re pricing poor people out of eating healthy (shame on you Robert)

                      ‘Grown without poisons sprays, their health would be far better, saving them a small fortune in medical bills and saving employers a great deal with regard down-time through sickness.’

                      – Debatable

                • Robert Guyton …
                  27 June 2018 at 2:55 pm

                  Wool is wonderful, most greenies would agree 🙂
                  It’s been underrated here and abroad since the introduction of synthetic (oil based) fibres (nylon carpets etc.) but the saving has been a false one – our throwaway habits are biting us back harder and harder as time goes by – disposing of a pure wool carpet, if ever you needed to (you shouldn’t, if you took care of it in the way it should be cared for – as a treasure) is simple – it’s organic and can be returned to the soil to the soil’s benefit; nylon carpets, not so much (to understate the problem)

            • Robert Guyton 1.3.1.2.1.2
              27 June 2018 at 3:00 pm

              I recommend terracing. You don’t need machines for a productive terraced landscape, you need people; know of any people who would like to live where they work, grow their food where they live, socialise and play among their carefully tended garden beds? Sounds awful doesn’t it (where’s the nearest cafe? Burger King?)

              • Puckish Rogue …
                27 June 2018 at 3:07 pm

                All on the living wage I’m guessing?

                • Robert Guyton …
                  27 June 2018 at 3:15 pm

                  Much of their needs would be met locally, Pucky: food and drink for starters. Employment too. Social needs, familial needs. Spiritual needs. What else is there 🙂 Jet-skiis would probably be out of the question, oh the anguish, but having your grandparents about to look after the grand kids would compensate the petrolhead father for his loss. There’s a whole world of possibility to be explored with this model, but I suspect you’re already dismissing it (as Gosman will) as “commie-talk”. Sadly, such brackish thinking is killing innovation and creativity, Imo.

                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    27 June 2018 at 3:18 pm

                    I won’t dismiss it as all in fact i can’t wait to see you start up a local model and you can let us know how it goes 🙂

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      27 June 2018 at 3:47 pm

                      Already started here, Pucky; local organic food cooperative, community forest garden, a string of community heritage apple orchards, annual fruit tree sales, harvest festival, organic gardener’s group, permaculture hui (coming) mid winter “earth craft” “round the mountain” delivery link (in gestation) and so on and so on…I’m happy to describe these things further, but there might not be the interest. But for now, I’m off to the climate change meeting.

                  • mauī …
                    1 July 2018 at 9:45 pm

                    Very interesting reading your comments in this section of the thread RG. Thanks, quite the vision!

              • mauī …
                1 July 2018 at 9:51 pm

                Terracing already largely achieved by Shrek and his comrades,
                https://photoseek.photoshelter.com/image/I00001bt__8ZqPDA

      • mauī 1.3.2
        27 June 2018 at 9:02 am

        Yes there are so, so many stories from the old timers about how farming in New Zealand was like “trying to farm on the surface of the moon” or “in the middle of the sinai desert!” That is of course why there was a rush to chop or burn down the native forests that had laid down millenia of some of the most infertile, toxic inorganic hummus onto the already 100% bedrock that makes up New Zealand soil if you can call it that. No wonder they had such a hard time. We were just lucky historically we found a way to farm round boulders otherwise we would have no agriculture at all here, the Moeraki boulders being the last surviving boulder farm.

      • SaveNZ 1.3.3
        27 June 2018 at 9:29 am

        We can grow trees, Manuka….Pines…

        That is where it could have helped farmers if there were proper Carbon trading credits.

      • marty mars 1.3.4
        27 June 2018 at 9:34 am

        Pretty ignorant comment Wayne – like duh

      • Gabby 1.3.5
        27 June 2018 at 4:31 pm

        Except the soil and shitloads of water maybe wayney.

      • cleangreen 1.3.6
        27 June 2018 at 8:10 pm

        Wayne;

        Our ‘changing climate’ will render all our country as ‘not suitable for crops’ in the future sunshine.

        • Ed 1.3.6.1
          27 June 2018 at 8:50 pm

          It appears Wayne knows as much about climate change as he does about Afghanistan….

      • Ed 1.3.7
        27 June 2018 at 8:47 pm

        You don’t appear to be very informed on the subject….
        Heard of trees?
        Erosion?
        Polluted waterways?

        We should be abandoning farming animals and planting trees.

  2. Ed 2
    27 June 2018 at 6:52 am

    Some interesting tweets here on the state of the CBD in Christchurch.
    Is it dying?

    https://twitter.com/NikkyD77/status/1009618929965125632

    • SaveNZ 2.1
      27 June 2018 at 9:31 am

      Weird. Maybe the charms of Brownlee’s rebuild of the centre acting as a repellant?

  3. Jenny 3
    27 June 2018 at 7:04 am

    ‘

    “Visit Borneo before it’s too late”

    KIM BLACK – June 26, 2018, Stuff.co.nz

    Get there before Fonterra does

    Fonterra linked to massive rain forest destruction

    Nick Young – 25 June 2018, Greenpeace

  4. Robert Guyton 4
    27 June 2018 at 7:43 am

    Getting my head around methane emitted from farms and the claims by the farming industry and it’s cheerleaders (Wayne 🙂 that it’s not a problem because it only lasts a short while (10 years!) then converts back to CO2 and water, both of which are reabsorbed by the farm’s pasture – well, look at an analogy that focuses on the period when the harmful gas is “briefly” in the air – imagine if the methane was a avicide – killed birds instantly, thereafter 10 minutes, converted back to CO2 and was reabsorbed by the pasture. The farming industry would argue, it’s a cyclic process, all the gas reverts to pasture and therefore there is a balance; farming’s contributing no more than it takes, forgetting that for 10 devastating minutes; every moment of the day, as the gas is being released constantly, birds are dying; falling from the sky. The methane argument equates with this hypothetical scenario; methane is vastly more “warming” to our atmosphere than CO2 is and while it reverts back to CO2, it’s harm is done over the 10 years it is in the air.
    I’d appreciate any critique of my explanation, should anyone be interested. I’m off to James Shaw’s Zero Carbon Bill community consultation tonight and there will be farmers there, pushing their “methane should be exempted” line.

    • dv 4.1
      27 June 2018 at 8:39 am

      lasts a short while (10 years!) then converts back to CO2 and water, both of which are reabsorbed

      BUT during that 10 years more methane is added by increasing cow nos.
      The postulated ‘steady’ state would only work if cow nos were stable or decreasing, and there would still be the warming from the methane in the atmosphere

    • Pat 4.2
      27 June 2018 at 9:28 am

      A critique?…..not so much, rather an observation or two, for what its worth.

      Atmospheric methane levels have over doubled since pre industrial times …if we accept that methane levels (flows) were in balance then the world needs to reduce methane output by approx half.

      Livestock changes have been dramatic in NZ since the 1990s. The reduction of sheep numbers (from 70 million to 30 million) has largely offset ( in methane terms) the increase in dairy numbers in the same period (from 7 to 10 million)…beef cattle /deer numbers have been static.
      Given sheep produce around 30 litres a day methane, and cattle 200 we have increased methane output in the ag sector by approx 13% over that timeframe….from 3 b l/pd to 3.4 b l/pd.

      Livestock emissions account for around 20% of methane emissions worldwide.

      My suspicion is the increase in atmospheric methane is driven largely by the numerical increase in livestock numbers worldwide ( to feed an increasing population) and gas production, another significant contributor.

      In terms of farming in NZ there are many environmental problems caused by our current farming practices but would suggest methane emissions is not top of the list….although its not to be ignored.

    • Bill 4.3
      27 June 2018 at 10:17 am

      I know I’m just repeating myself here, but if government committed to reducing CO2 emissions in line with what current scientific knowledge demands (zero from energy by the 2040s), then methane and whatever else can be exempted or anythinged, because their levels will drop substantially as a natural or inevitable consequence of serious action on CO2.

      The bit that appears to be being missed in the whole red herring argument about methane, is that whether exempted or not, the government obviously intends to continue burning fossil apace.

      That’s against every international accord signed by NZ, where CO2 emission reductions were going to be set according to our scientific knowledge.

    • patricia bremner 4.4
      27 June 2018 at 1:58 pm

      Robert, Thanks from someone who would like to have attended. Rug up xx
      Perhaps you can report back?

    • corodale 4.5
      29 June 2018 at 5:41 am

      To be smart, we should give them right to produce methane, but off-set with low nitrate farming requirement to serve greater ecosystem health.

  5. The Chairman 5
    27 June 2018 at 8:18 am

    Winston Peters claims industrial action is looming because Unions know this Government will listen.

    However, it seems to me industrial action is looming because this Government isn’t listening thus isn’t succumbing to Union demands.  

    Additionally, isn’t it interesting how Peters never pointed to fiscal constraints and the need to maintain a surplus when the billion dollars for foreign aid was announced. But when NZ employees seek a pay rise he becomes Scrooge.

    • Puckish Rogue 5.1
      27 June 2018 at 8:35 am

      If I had the power to choose (at the next election) between National getting back into power or Winston removed from political power for good I’d choose removing Winston, even if that meant a Labour/Green coalition

      • The Chairman 5.1.1
        27 June 2018 at 8:44 am

        I’m picking Winston is over. With his support of the TPP and putting foreign aid first, he’s gone against NZF’s reason for being.

        • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1.1
          27 June 2018 at 8:50 am

          Yeah it’s now known that a vote for Winston is a vote for Labour so his left leaning voters will be weighing up between voting Labour, Greens or Winston and his right leaning have either National or Act

        • saveNZ 5.1.1.2
          27 June 2018 at 9:54 am

          Yep, gone quiet on immigration too. Saying that I have a soft spot for Whinny which although have never voted for him, I like his style, aka he at least can stylishly stand up Duncan Garner and say F you to MSM.

          In spite of being a lawyer he understands the pitfalls of having everything about litigation and a country full of banks and lawyers is not exactly gonna be productive or innovative… or a nice place to live.

          that is the problem with our current Ponzi scheme, we have not really concentrated of future production and some sort of future strategy, dirty agriculture and tourism driving up carbon is never going to last forever, instead of being ahead of the curve, NZ has gone for the quick and dirty profits for a few individuals while helping destroy the industry which could easily be future proofed with some positive action, for the rest.

          Selling off our country and assets for peanuts, creating poverty with low wage economy and deregulation and ripping people off while worstening the level of quality from food to construction with cheap hires, cash and trafficked staff and bad degrees, eventually comes to a sickly end when we run out of disposable money and people are too scared to eat out or hire a contractor or buy an apartment as they have been ripped off too many times and normal businesses are competing with fake businesses for immigration scams.

          • The Chairman 5.1.1.2.1
            27 June 2018 at 10:36 am

            People either hate him or love him. Personally, I have a bit of time for him. He’s supposedly meant to stand against the negatives you highlighted. But like others, I’m disappointed in some of his decisions of late.

            He has many years of political experience and that will be a loss.

            • cleangreen 5.1.1.2.1.1
              27 June 2018 at 8:18 pm

              Nice view chairman;
              ‘He has many years of political experience’

              And you are right;

              Winston has many ways to swing a cat now.

              So dont count him or NZF out here, as he does make ‘Large surprises that even the once over-confident National party found out’ – thouight they had him boxed too.

              They learned and we are not counting Winston out or NZF.

              • corodale …
                29 June 2018 at 5:47 am

                Winnie will shine in a global financial melt-down. He will make the boldest calls, and set the scene for the next election.

    • Wayne 5.2
      27 June 2018 at 8:40 am

      But the unions presumably do think the govt will weaken, otherwise why go on strike.

      • The Chairman 5.2.1
        27 June 2018 at 8:48 am

        Going on strike is a last resort. Thus, they’d only be doing it because the Government isn’t weakening.

        • Puckish Rogue 5.2.1.1
          27 June 2018 at 8:54 am

          Well there didn’t seem to be as many strikes under National and National certainly wasn’t weak when it came to unions

          • The Chairman 5.2.1.1.1
            27 June 2018 at 9:08 am

            Indeed. The Unions have been biting the bullet. Which has resulted in this boiling over with the Unions now deciding (in numbers) enough is enough, it’s time to stand their ground.

            • Puckish Rogue 5.2.1.1.1.1
              27 June 2018 at 9:12 am

              Presumably because, as Wayne states, they think present government will cave in whereas the previous government wouldn’t

              • The Chairman …
                27 June 2018 at 9:40 am

                My understanding is it’s due to deteriorating conditions that have been building up over the years, thus worsening morale. Hence, a larger number are now willing to take a stronger stance. So it’s more to do with pressure building up over time and not solely due to the change of Government.

                Of course, they will be hoping strike action will force the Government to cave.

                However, the Government will be twice the fools to let it go that far if they were willing to cave from the outset. And it’s the fact the Government isn’t listening and succumbing to their demands that is forcing them to strike in the first place.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  27 June 2018 at 9:48 am

                  This happening six months into a new government but i’m assuming the pressure or difficulties isn’t that much different from a year or even two years ago

                  Just seems a tad coincidental thats its happening, now, under a Labour-led government thats more positive towards unions than a National government that is less positive

                  • The Chairman …
                    27 June 2018 at 9:59 am

                    If this Labour-led Government was more positive towards Unions, Unions wouldn’t be resorting to industrial action.

                    This happening six months into a new Government is just the timing contracts are up for renegotiation.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    27 June 2018 at 11:00 am

                    This happening six months into a new government but i’m assuming the pressure or difficulties isn’t that much different from a year or even two years ago

                    Then you’d be assuming wrong.

                    • cleangreen …
                      27 June 2018 at 8:21 pm

                      Yes Draco;

                      ‘A day in politics is a long time’ – and Winston know’s this better than anyone else arouind parliament.

            • Gosman 5.2.1.1.1.2
              27 June 2018 at 9:30 am

              Then the Unions are politically foolish. It would serve them much better long term to make life difficult for a National led government than a Labour one. Most people are not going to see the nuance you write about and will just make a link that Labour equals more strikes.

              • The Chairman …
                27 June 2018 at 9:51 am

                Regardless if it were a National Government, I think we’d be seeing the same thing. As I’ve explained above, this boiling over now is more to do with the timing, resulting from years of insufficient progress. People have just had enough and are now starting to stand their ground.

      • ankerawshark 5.2.2
        27 June 2018 at 12:22 pm

        Wayne due you think nurses should be paid what they are asking for?

        If not why not?

        How do their salaries c/p with say a politicians, who doesn’t have to train or qualify for the job?

  6. SaveNZ 6
    27 June 2018 at 8:32 am

    When the troughers bite the hand that trough’s them

    Westgate developer sues Auckland Council for $33 million

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/105031410/westgate-developer-sues-auckland-council-for-33-million

    Another PPP going down the toilet in litigation after under delivering so the lawyers get to lose more ratepayer money on the spoils of another failed venture.

    Nobody goes to Westgate because when you are deliberately developing a low wage economy and people spend all their money on mortgages, rents, insurances, power, rates, transport and water , combined with the worst urban design possible from the 1980’s aka a large mall filled with franchise stores and surrounded by highways, it’s not really a pull to go to…

    BTW, is the Westgate the McDonalds that sold those Sundae’s with the pills and the police are now involved…. other issues might be people not going there are when you get ripped off or have your health endangered by a franchise store that seems to have gone haywire with bad staff doing weird shit, you don’t go back!

    Also the rents are now so high for commercial real estate, that most businesses can’t survive.

    • Ad 6.1
      27 June 2018 at 10:05 am

      And pretty stark when you compare the state+private masterplanned development at Hobsonville just a few kilometers down the road.

      Hobsonville Land Company has now grown into HLC which is the largest and most progressive home-and-community building in Auckland. And it is about to acquire powers to acquire and control land under statute as an Urban Development Agency.

      Westgate is by a long way Waitakere Council’s worst set of decisions, making a town centre even more devoid of life and opportunity than Albany. And it will take even longer to fix than the several billion needed over the past two decades to turn Manukau town centre into something livable.

      • saveNZ 6.1.1
        27 June 2018 at 1:47 pm

        HLC???? These are the private developers that promised affordable housing at Tamaki – 400 by this year but sadly there link says

        SORRY – WE COULD NOT FIND THAT!
        Please try using the navigation or the search above.

        But there is ones for $863,000, so affordable, so much hope for the state house tenants living in hotels and now condemned homes is the new way to house them!

        https://www.creatingcommunities.co.nz/homes

        For a self proclaimed Labour man, Ad, I’m not sure you are doing a good job at convincing people with your blindness for the free market profiting from the state as being a good thing.

        • Ad 6.1.1.1
          27 June 2018 at 1:59 pm

          Tamaki is a different entity:

          https://www.tamakiregeneration.co.nz/

          For a self-proclaimed Labour man, my advice to you or anyone is:

          Expect neither the state nor the private sector to deliver everything for you. If you can’t scrape together your Kiwisaver, your collective savings, your relatives, and your banks to get a deposit to own something in Auckland, then you will not be owning in Auckland.

          The best this government will do in three years is cool the market down, subsidise incomes, make houses, stop further foreign ownership of existing houses, and make real estate less attractive to landlords.

          The rest is up to you.

      • saveNZ 6.1.2
        27 June 2018 at 1:53 pm

        Hobsenville HLC

        Average price looks to be around $800,000+

        https://hobsonvillepoint.co.nz/assets/Uploads/Precinct-Price-List-June-22-2018.pdf

        Sounds like an affordable disaster – not something to be crowed about.

        Prior to all the council and government intervention driving up the prices, you could buy a 3 bedroom house for $350,000 around there and a studio apartment in the city for $160k.

        • Ad 6.1.2.1
          27 June 2018 at 2:03 pm

          It’s the best masterplanned community in Auckland. No, not everyone will afford it. But $800,000+ is an average place in Auckland. You can find cheaper, but then, you get what you pay for.

          So people want to live there.

          If you are expecting state houses in Hobsonville, check back in your records and you will see that the local MP at the time John Key objected so strongly that all state housing was stripped out of the job.

          • saveNZ 6.1.2.1.1
            27 June 2018 at 2:14 pm

            Yep only takes 1 hour and 4 minutes by public transport including your walk of 80 minutes return which is more than 2 hours commute and $75 for transport.

            Hobsonville Point Road, Hobsonville to Queen Street, Auckland Central
            Thursday 28 June
            Departs at 7:38 am
            1hr 4min
            HOBS HOP $7.50

            • Ad 6.1.2.1.1.1
              27 June 2018 at 2:19 pm

              If you are so foolish as to work in the middle of Auckland’s CBD while living on the periphery of Auckland at Hobsonville, then you’re on a reasonable income and may as well take the ferry at $10 a shot; timetable and fares from Hobsonville wharf below:

              https://www.fullers.co.nz/timetables-and-fares/?from=AUCK&to=HOBS

              • saveNZ …
                27 June 2018 at 4:32 pm

                Yep that lovely 44 minute walk return to get to the ferry (no public transport options according to AT planner) and then that 35 minute journey by ferry, so I guess that is 44 minute walk and total transit time of around 2 hours but costs you $100 per week in ferry costs…

                Also why does AT planner not plan for Ferries in their travel planner, more Moranic IT… no doubt costing a fortune to get a D- grade IT service missing vital info.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.2
      27 June 2018 at 11:07 am

      Sounds like the capitalists took the risk that they say they’re so good at and are now demanding that local government guarantee their expected returns.

    • Gabby 6.3
      27 June 2018 at 11:50 am

      Sounds like they might have got the teensiest bit shafted by Aucky Transport savy.

  7. SaveNZ 7
    27 June 2018 at 9:33 am

    Marine plastic: Hundreds of fragments in dead seabirds

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44579422

  8. SaveNZ 8
    27 June 2018 at 10:04 am

    I remember reading something about the cultural revolution in China, Mao told everybody to kill the birds because they ate the crops, so they killed all the birds and then the bugs didn’t have the birds left to eat them and ate the crops and they started to starve…

    It would be easy to just ban plastic. Would help NZ as we produce wood and they could go back to paper bags!

    Doesn’t even seem to be on their radar. Too late to tax plastic bags as the oceans are already full, it’s a full ban they need!

    The earth aint gonna end if they ban plastic bags (I think Germany did years ago), but the earth might end if they don’t ban them!

    • indiana 8.1
      27 June 2018 at 10:10 am

      What is the carbon footprint of a paper processing plant, let alone the environmental impact?

      • saveNZ 8.1.1
        27 June 2018 at 1:55 pm

        Probably a lot less than all the plastic made from oil that does not decay and currently polluting and killing the ocean.

        At least the tree producing the paper used to produce oxygen and decays!

      • Ed 8.1.2
        27 June 2018 at 8:54 pm

        Do your own research.

    • Puckish Rogue 8.2
      27 June 2018 at 10:23 am

      There you go (its also on youtube)

      http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/10/four-pests-campaign/

      Don’t worry Draco I’m sure it wasn’t really communism to blame though 🙂

    • marty mars 8.3
      27 June 2018 at 10:38 am

      Hemp and flax are proven products and industries and could replace a lot of plastic – just like they did in yesteryear.

      • bwaghorn 8.3.1
        27 June 2018 at 11:40 am

        Might be the sort of large scale cropping that could help cocked transition away from milking cows .

        • marty mars 8.3.1.1
          27 June 2018 at 11:46 am

          Exactly mate.

          That is the dream that my hemp growing friends and I have – good for everyone.

          • saveNZ 8.3.1.1.1
            27 June 2018 at 2:01 pm

            Also making products out of flax could be a goer! Doesn’t have the ‘stigma’ of the hemp and is incredibly strong. Grows like a weed too.

            That is where the northland money should be going, innovation using NZ products like flax to make alternate packaging options.

            We need to aim a lot bigger, look at companies like Huhtamaki, a global multinational Finnish company that does packaging.

            The next thing is clearly biodegradable packaging!

            Fonterra could be leading the world by having flax based milk cartons/packaging etc, but nope instead troughing at executive level and polluting the environment to boot while waiting to go out of business with their lazy pathetic management approach.

      • One Two 8.3.2
        27 June 2018 at 2:22 pm

        Hemp could literally ‘save the world’…

        The history of how chemical companies conspired to eradicate hemp production and use is interesting…

        NZ should be leading the world with ‘green’…

        • Hongi Ika 8.3.2.1
          27 June 2018 at 4:14 pm

          Too backward in this country and we have to have the approval of the USA b4 we are allowed to do anything.

    • Alan 9.1
      27 June 2018 at 1:15 pm

      waiting for the vitriolic outrage against this corrupt, immigrant loving, kiwi hating government…….

      • Puckish Rogue 9.1.1
        27 June 2018 at 1:19 pm

        Its ok because at least they’re “trying” 🙂

        • marty mars 9.1.1.1
          27 June 2018 at 1:31 pm

          Filling your hot water bottles with hate to tide you through the long, long winter of no-power-no mates-no nothing opposition is a good idea righties – winter is here.

          • Puckish Rogue 9.1.1.1.1
            27 June 2018 at 2:46 pm

            “long, long winter of no-power”

            Don’t tell me Labours going to try and re nationalise the power as well…

            • marty mars 9.1.1.1.1.1
              27 June 2018 at 3:42 pm

              Lol yep a long, long time before the hoofs touch the levers of power again – so good – two legs good, four legs bad… 😁

    • saveNZ 9.2
      27 June 2018 at 2:06 pm

      @PR – have to agree they are clueless.

      • Puckish Rogue 9.2.1
        27 June 2018 at 2:52 pm

        I’m actually less interested in the policies and more interested in how the msm will go about reporting this

    • Draco T Bastard 9.3
      27 June 2018 at 3:30 pm

      Fucken morons. Going the cheap and easy route rather than the sustainable route of developing our economy and the people already here.

      Much better to train those already here and do the R&D so that we don’t need another 30,000 people.

    • Herodotus 9.4
      27 June 2018 at 3:47 pm

      Where is the training and up skilling the domestic workforce, where is the pay back from the sector to cater for tradesman for the future ??
      And this
      https://www.labour.org.nz/immigration
      Residential construction firms could hire a skilled tradesperson on a three-year work visa without having to meet the Labour Market Test if they pay a living wage and take on an apprentice for each overseas worker they hire. The number of places will be limited to 1,000 to 1,500 at a given time, which we expect will be additional to the construction work visas issued under the existing rules.
      Some in the industry could see this coming, but no one was wanting to keep labour honest. Enough to almost make you vote ACT :-(, at least you know what you will be getting !!!

  11. Siobhan 11
    27 June 2018 at 3:02 pm

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez defeats fourth-ranking House Democrat Joe Crowley in massive upset…ha ha..maybe all is not lost! And she did it not on corporate money…but a genuine grass roots movement.

    To me, this is the interesting and important story, not Trumps latest tweet.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/26/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-beats-high-ranking-house-democrat-joe-crowley.html

  13. mac1 13
    27 June 2018 at 4:02 pm

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/06/low-income-families-feeling-more-hopeful-under-labour-government-expert.html

    Even if some business folk are talking down the economy and therefore their returns, poorer folk are feeling more hopeful.

    I rejoice in that.

    The expert in the article does argue that the later start date in 2018 means that people entitled to the Winter warmth payment can’t get the extra money to heat their houses in the post winter solstice freeze before July 1.

    I’m not sure that is the case as electricity can be consumed ahead of payment. In other words, unless the power is provided on a prepaid system, keep warm now using some power guaranteed to be paid by the winter warmth payment from July 1.

    I am a little concerned that recipients of the payment might not have been made aware of the possibility of a little forward consumption before payment and thereby keeping warm in the freeze before July 1.

  14. Draco T Bastard 14
    27 June 2018 at 4:12 pm

    Star Trek science fiction now reality

  15. Draco T Bastard 15
    27 June 2018 at 4:33 pm

    Social Credit Press Release

    There is more money for nurses !
    Media Release 24.06.2018
    From: Chris Leitch, Leader

    Finance Minister Grant Robertson’s claim that any new pay offer to nurses “would have to be made using funds already allocated, as there’s no more” is nonsense, according to new Social Credit Party Leader, Chris Leitch.

    Mr Robertson’s understanding of how the money system works is patently paper thin, and he’s relying on what advisers in Treasury, who have been sourced from the private banking industry, are telling him.

    Just like his predecessor Bill English, he puts paying $4,500,000,000 dollars every year unnecessarily to the private banks the government has borrowed from, ahead of decent pay for doctors and nurses and decent health care for Kiwis.

    He could solve the nurses strike overnight if he understood anything about Labour Party history, and took a leaf out of Michael Joseph Savage’s book.

    Labour’s first Prime Minister used the Reserve Bank to create the credit necessary to rebuild the nation.
    5,000 houses were built by 1939, and 30,000 by 1949, financed by Reserve Bank credit.

    The European Central Bank is creating credit at the rate of $35 billion Euros per month, through its quantitative easing programme, without any sign of inflation, so there’s no reason the Reserve Bank here couldn’t fund our government in a similar way.

    That would give him $4.5 billion dollars every year to spend on New Zealanders instead.

    Putting bankers ahead of doctors and nurses shows that Labour’s economic policies are no different from National’s.

    • One Two 15.1
      27 June 2018 at 6:19 pm

      http://www.group30.org/members

      Draco, meet those who are driving the cashless society you crave…

      Check out their backgrounds…some of the names should ring alarm bells immediately…all are deeply involved/conflicted with the private tech companies which nobody has voted for to control every aspect of their lives…

      • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1
        27 June 2018 at 8:35 pm

        I doubt that their pushing the cashless system that I advocate. I doubt if they’re looking to stop the private banks from creating money which is at the base of my system.

  16. mac1 16
    27 June 2018 at 4:35 pm

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/06/religious-leaders-fear-upcoming-blood-moon-could-signal-end-of-world.html

    And people wonder why some voters go for National?

    Personally, I’m putting my investment money into eggs because there’s going to be a lot of egg on a lot of faces in a short time.

    If I’m wrong, then, good people, we’re all going together anyway, and all our eggs will be scrambled. 🙂

    • ianmac 16.1
      27 June 2018 at 4:58 pm

      Every so often the End of The World is declared by some religious groups. They rise very early to watch the sun rise on The End perhaps from the top of a hill.
      We cynics wondered what they thought/felt on the way back down again when another day began.
      Maybe it is a means of bonding the group with increased faith in the Leader?

  17. Ad 17
    27 June 2018 at 4:54 pm

    It can be done, occasionally.

    A strong-left 28-year old latina Democrat candidate rolls a dead-set Dem rock, gets a waterslide into a Congress seat.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ocasio-wins-primary-democratic-nomination-congress-crowley_us_5b21a084e4b0bbb7a0e46ccd

    “This is not an end, this is the beginning. This is the beginning because the message that we sent the world tonight is that it’s not OK to put donors before your community,” Ocasio-Cortez told her supporters Tuesday night.

  18. Eco Maori 18
    28 June 2018 at 6:42 am

    Good morning The AM Show Was Black Ice part of the reasons for that big Accident in Taranaki.
    I believe that fluoride in our drinking water is good when my children we young the eldest teeth was looking a bad so I gave them fluid tablets after a bit of research the 3 younger ones have good teeth so I have seen it with my own eyes the benefits of fluoride in children diet. Ka kite ano

  19. Eco Maori 19
    28 June 2018 at 7:44 am

    Here we go I sure ECO MAORI has stated that sir shonky was all about his 00.1 wealth m8s and here’s more evidence of national looking after there rich m8s
    Link below.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/105059172/sir-john-key-lobbied-government-for-overseas-buyers-ban-exemption Ka kite ano

  20. Eco Maori 20
    28 June 2018 at 7:55 am

    There is no need to minupulate the above links story like national and there trolls