Open Mike 27/08/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 27th, 2018 - 117 comments
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117 comments on “Open Mike 27/08/2018”

  1. reason 1

    1MDB… one of the largest worldwide theft and corruption cases ….involving Malaysian politicians and their relatives … with core involvement from enablers like New Zealand lawyers … and other dodgy hanger ons.

    although it involves some of the same players,… it is not to be confused with the corrupt malaysian timber companies operating here in NZ.

    1MDB — $7 Billion US raised by Goldman sachs with a high over the top commission …. Malaysian people on the hook and obliged to repay this $7Billion

    $3.5 Billion siphoned from fund. NZ involvement.

    A Malaysian State prosecutor investigating this fraud murdered and found in a barrel …. encased in concrete

    The thefts have resulted in The largest seizure in US history … $1 Billion …

    The Swiss Govt has prosecuted their involved banks.

    Back in Malaysia .. their attorny general cleared their PM

    In Nz high court judge Justice Togood …. …. cited Cayman island case law … wtf? … and allowed a NZ rearguard action on behalf of the real owners … the crooks … of a NZ vehicle …

    ..
    Our media ran Dirty politics cover and silence when John key set NZ up as a tax haven ,,, leaving the public confused when Key was personally named by the panama papers whistle-blower

    Now they keep the volume down quiet as the consequences get exposed….

    1MDB is just one compartment in a very long NZ train wreck

    Judith Collins bullshits and bluffs on the behalf of the biggest criminals in the world … more than willing to keep running Keys laundromat legacy.

    The dishonest side of Judith has been called out by a reporter I much admire …Clare Rewcastle Brown … Her decency seems to magnify the ugliness which Collins represents. -http://www.sarawakreport.org/2017/07/australia-and-new-zealand-slide-from-their-responsibilities-over-mass-corruption-and-malaysia/

    “The government minister responsible appears to believe the whole episode provides a grand excuse for New Zealand’s regulators to pat themselves on the back rather than hang their heads in shame over years of harbouring thousands of crooked accounts:

    “Revenue Minister Judith Collins said the drop in trust numbers was not surprising and it shouldn’t be assumed that was because many had been handling the proceeds of illegitimate activities. “There is a much heavier compliance burden under the new regime with more disclosure required than ever before.”.. she said, adding New Zealand now had a “world class regime”.[Stuff NZ]

    Who believes that – after all, how burndensome is it to write down your own name?

    Nor is this system yet ‘world class’. The New Zealand Government have notably refused to extend to the full transparency that would actually be expected of a benchmark regime i.e. an open register where journalists and others could cross reference potentially illegal activity.

    This means that, for example, Sarawak Report is unable to inform Malaysians whether Jho Low and his family are one of the few to have re-registered their trust in New Zealand. They may have done so. After all, in the end they got what they wanted from the courts despite being fully exposed in the process.”

    She also has good reporting on Malaysian timber companies …. another criminal can of worms with NZ involvement .

    • greywarshark 1.1

      Thanks Reason. That’s a day’s reading and thinking – it’s big. This is our world though, the lure of unlimited spending money through the injudicious exchange of papers or communications is a wealth virus that has addled many brains.

      The pollies, players and super-wealthy should have their brains investigated as capital accretion seems to be like ‘concretion’ in the brain. It seems a new form of dementia, and so much more dangerous than the mix of paranoia, suspicion and negativity that seems to afflict many dementia victims. They don’t seem to have their happy buttons pushed and go round smiling at everyone and wishing them well. The wealth ones don’t care if others die. Is it super-psychopathy?

      • cleangreen 1.1.1

        Great stuff Reason.

        Malasian crooks now own a part of the timber trade in the Gisborne district.

        They have ow musseled in on the large company that was a public forest there and now is screwing the locals to extract all the timber out of the region and have blocked supply to a new local producer trying to stop the company from getting logs to mill at their plant so they are real crooks.

    • SaveNZ 1.2

      Excellent video link to watch.

      The world should be paying countries with rainforests to preserve them and an income for the climate credits. Not the screwed up system we seem to have that is rewarding polluters and letting government criminals destroy not only their own citizens lives but also the climate and environment, while the rest of the world watches and does nothing or contributes by buying palm oil products and rainforest logs.

      Even worse these deforesters are predators to their own people and the countries like NZ and Canada that allow them to launder the money through wink wink property or gambling for example are just as much to blame.

      Don’t see the lengths that NZ government has gone to, to try to get Dotcom for money laundering being made to more deserving causes like corrupt government officials, instead NZ seems to be saying, “yes please, we love foreign investment and give zero percent tax havens to non residents or gambling $500 million here is no problem”.

  2. corodale 2

    Good to see NZ and Malaysia maintaining close business relations. Friendly military relations too, good for both lands.

    Big deals in Malaysians during the Astrom Energy acquisitions by General Electric. Enough money to pay for those two planes to crash. GE ‘n’ friends controlling tech.

    • reason 2.1

      Our military and police also enjoy training and special relationships with Indonesia … part of our natural partnership no doubt …. are they TPPA buddies like Malaysia is ???

      .
      …. ” New Zealand has a formal agreement with Indonesian police that allows better cooperation between our police forces in combating transnational crime.”

      Oppenheimer : The women workers desperately needed a union. This Belgian multinational spray of herbicide was dissolving their livers and killing them in their 40s, but they were afraid to organize a union that they so desperately needed because their parents and grandparents had been in a strong plantation workers union and had been killed for it, so they were accused of being communist sympathizers.”

      NZ Govt === “Indonesia is one of the most populous countries in the world and has gone through rapid economic growth since democracy was restored in 1998. There are many opportunities for New Zealand exporters in Indonesia that are supported by AANZFTA – our free trade agreement with the ASEAN countries. ”

      Oppenheimer “Could you go and find out if my mother was killed? She disappeared 40 years ago, but we never knew what happened.” I would go on these terrible missions on behalf of the survivors, and find out that not only could I get information on how people died, but I could find out in general how the killings had happened, which is something no one had known about before. The perpetrators were boastful. I didn’t have to lure them to open up. I simply asked these men, “What did you do for a living?” In minutes, they would open up and boast about what they had done. It dawned on me that I had walked into Germany 40 years after the Holocaust, and found the Nazis still in power. I realized this was a horrible, but not extraordinary situation, in the sense that everything we buy is made in places like this.”

      GE …. Fukushima
      Westinghouse …. Bataan Nuclear Power Plant … which sits atop a geological fault-line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Nuclear_Power_Plant

      https://aecnewstoday.com/2016/resurrecting-another-marcos-era-ghost-a-bad-idea-bataan-nuclear-power-plant/

      • greywarshark 2.1.1

        Interesting (frightening) to see the hard-line leaders getting back in, and looking as if they want to go Back to the Future. Philippines looking back to Marcos and dodgy nuclear. Brazil has an ardent follower of the past dictatorship standing for election. Trump in America. British Conservatives willing to go ahead with Brexit and munt the country, dividing it from Europe which it had joined in the uneasy but working relationship which is a prevention of WW2 rerun. They are withdrawing towards Dickensian conditions. Hungary and another European country hard-line, getting towards fascism.

        As times get tougher the people in many countries who think no harder than those who voted in Trump (or Clinton perhaps, neither of them being what was required – in a country with a huge population!).

        https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/05/brazil_bring_back_the_generals_or_something_like_that.html
        Brazil: Bring back the generals, or something like that
        By Silvio Canto, Jr.
        Not long ago, Brazil was run by a military junta. Then came a democracy, the expansion of the central government, crony capitalism, and corruption. All of a sudden, one of the largest-GDP nations in the world looks as dysfunctional as any other.

        So what do you do when elected leaders can’t keep the streets safe or give you economic growth?

        Some Brazilians are yearning for law and order or “el hombre fuerte,” which is a syndrome all over the pages of Latin American history.

        • reason 2.1.1.1

          Thanks for the comments greywarshark, SaveNZ, corodale …. there was a surge of criminality in the 1980’s …. coincidentally around the time john key was setting up multiple Deutsche vehicles in NZ…. https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/individual/search?q=john+key&advancedPanel=false&mode=advanced

          “Without understanding offshore, we will never understand the history of the modern world.

          Poverty in Africa? Offshore is at the heart of the matter. Industrial-scale corruption and the wholesale subversion of governments by criminalised interests, across the developing world? Offshore is central to the story, every time. The systematic looting of the former Soviet Union and the merging of the nuclear-armed country’s intelligence apparatus with organized crime, is a story that unfolds substantially in London and its offshore satellites. Saddam Hussein used tax havens to buttress his power, as does North Korea’s Kim Jong-Il today. Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi’s strange hold over Italian politics is very much an offshore tale. The Elf Affair, Europe’s biggest ever corruption scandal, had secrecy jurisdictions at its core. Arms smuggling to terrorist organisations? The growth of mafia empires? Offshore. You can only fit about $1 million into a briefcase: without offshore, the illegal drugs trade would be a fraction of its size.”

          When watching this doco on the bankrupting and exploitation of Argentina …. it was revealed their rich kleptocracy / oligarchs had $400 Billion stashed offshore ….

          I’m sure NZ will be helping the rich crooks of Argentina keep their country poor.

          John key worked hard on nationals laundry legacy … Judith Collins and others are it’s present day staunch defenders …. she should be finished in Politics …. if we had a decent or balanced media.

      • veutoviper 2.1.2

        Hi reason, good post. I haven’t had a chance to read in depth as yet but have bookmarked this for this evening.

        Re trade etc with Malaysia and Indonesia, Indonesia is not part of the CP-TPP but NZ has considerable trade arrangements with them through other agreements in place and others under negotiation currently.

        MFAT have a very good website on all of this worth checking – regardless of whether or not you agree with CPTPP, etc as it is full of information. (And no . I don’t work for them etc. LOL. Just have some interest/past background in this area.)

        There are two parts of particular use re trade etc. One is the actual Trade section; and the other is the Countries and Regions section which gives a wider overview of NZ’s relationships with each country.

        Some links:

        https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/trade/
        https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/trade/free-trade-agreements/
        https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/trade/our-work-with-apec/
        https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/trade/nz-inc-strategies/

        https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/countries-and-regions/
        https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/countries-and-regions/south-east-asia/malaysia/
        https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/countries-and-regions/south-east-asia/indonesia/

        A recent addition to the Trade section is the following detailed link as a result of the recent Trade for All initiative announced by the Govt to provide greater input from the public etc into our trade policy etc
        https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/trade/nz-trade-policy/how-do-we-consult-on-free-trade-agreements/

        Cheers

    • scotty 3.1

      Jacinda and The All Blacks.
      Both at the top of their game – with the opposition left grasping in their dust.

      • Puckish Rogue 3.1.1

        I can’t remember who said it but it someone once said something along the lines of once someone is elected its a countdown to when they’re defeated

        Unless they go out on top like Sir John Key did, Jacinda has followed a lot of what Sir John did, will she also go out on her own terms as well?

        • McFlock 3.1.1.1

          John Key bailed because he knew the election was lost and he wasn’t sure that Labour would give him a feudal-era title.

          • Puckish Rogue 3.1.1.1.1

            He had foresight whereas Helen Clark tried to hold on for one election, got dumped and then flew the coop

            Better to go out on your own terms than someone elses

            • McFlock 3.1.1.1.1.1

              That’s not really the attitude one should have in a democracy. Public office isn’t private enterprise, it’s a public service.

              Hang around until the public no longer want your service.

          • Chris T 3.1.1.1.2

            Bit of a stretch

            He was going against Little

            Up until the end of last year and Ardern rocking up Labour thought they would lose the election

            • McFlock 3.1.1.1.2.1

              Well, it was doubtful, but the real worry peaked when Little left.

              Key knew that the nats were on an all or nothing deal, and “all” couldn’t be relied on. And he really wanted to be called a “sir” – an insecurity common in the shallower tories.

          • adam 3.1.1.1.3

            McFlock you’re a wee bit off the mark, you might want to ask Wiri…

            • McFlock 3.1.1.1.3.1

              I’ll start by asking “who’s Wiri?”

              • adam

                Wiri in NZ tory politics. How many are there, and why would I say it in connection with key?

                • McFlock

                  Fuck if I know. The name doesn’t ring any immediate bells, I’ve given up wondering why some people say any damned thing whatsoever, and I’m primarily trying to fix SQL code at the moment.

                  You’re welcome to make an explicit statement.

                  • adam

                    No I’m not. Hink – look at my response to marty mars just below.

                    • McFlock

                      Dude, I’m in Dunedin. What the fuck would I know about Ngāti Porou gossip?

                      Maybe, if you can’t be explicit, then keep it to yourself. Life would be easier for everyone else.

                    • adam

                      If your in Dunedin, ask Bill when you see him next.

                    • McFlock

                      🙄

                      To clarify – when I next bump into bill in the supermarket, I should ask him about a rumour about why key ditched the job? It’s not something I’ll lose sleep over, thanks.

                    • marty mars

                      invite him round for dinner 🙂

                    • McFlock

                      very few people are game enough to come to my place for dinner. I live in filth. But… some people like that.

          • cleangreen 3.1.1.1.4

            100% Mc Flock, ++++++

        • bwaghorn 3.1.1.2

          Key quit because he new the nats needed nzf to get in and he knew that wasn’t going to happen as Winstons hates him for 9 years of dirty politics against him from team key .

          • marty mars 3.1.1.2.1

            Key left to make money. End. Of. Story. He’s the least team player there is. It’s all about John.

            • adam 3.1.1.2.1.1

              I agree marty mars, key is all about key, and he’s cupidity is out of hand. That said, do you have any Ngāti Porou whanau marty mars? If so, you might want to ask them about why John left.

            • bwaghorn 3.1.1.2.1.2

              You don’t unner stand the old boys club or the right wing way do you .
              ” John old boy we think you need to step aside , what and how many directorships would you like to slide into as our way of saying thanks . ‘

              • marty mars

                yes he left to make money which is what you said too in agreement with me isn’t it?

    • mauī 3.2

      There are those who are respectful and humble, and then there’s Key.
      https://thespinoff.co.nz/features/26-10-2015/picture-special-when-john-key-met-the-all-blacks/

      • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1

        Putting all that aside the three way handshake happened when Richard went to shake Johns hand and that other knob gobbler stuck his hand out and got in the way

        • Macro 3.2.1.1

          and that other knob gobbler
          Who are you inferring is a knob gobbler? Sir John or Richie?

          • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1.1.1

            Whoever that other guy was, some neville no one

            • Robert Guyton 3.2.1.1.1.1

              Neville Chamberlain – that’s what they used to call John Key over on Kiwiblog; Neville Chamberlain…was that him?

            • Macro 3.2.1.1.1.2

              Sorry – but you used the word “other” in your comment
              “and that other knob gobbler”
              doesn’t that imply more than one?
              So who is the other one?

              • Puckish Rogue

                Poor writing on my part, there was only one attention seeking glory hound in that particular threesome and it wasn’t Sir John or Sir Richard

        • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1.2

          Having re-read what i posted can everyone please substitute attention seeking glory hound for knob gobbler

          Theres nothing negative about knob gobbling and it shouldn’t be used as an insult

          Cheers

        • McFlock 3.2.1.3

          The dude who just handed McCaw the rugby world cup, you mean?

          It was actually McCaw who screwed the pooch on that one: basic protocol is that if someone gives you an award, especially in manlyman activities, you take the item in your left hand and shake hands with the person who gave it to you with the right.

          You don’t take the award and immediately go to shake someone else’s hand. Can’t blame the other guy – Key was behind him.

          • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1.3.1

            While I agree, in principle, with what you say, he’s Richard and therefore above reproach

          • mauī 3.2.1.3.2

            Yes but if there’s some numpty in your direct line of sight who’s trying to talk to you as someone else is presenting you with the trophy then you’re likely to be distracted. After successfully distracting, if said numpty thrusts his hand out like he is the one who has just presented the trophy…

            • McFlock 3.2.1.3.2.1

              I think the difference between key and a real statesman is in how he decided on the threeway after a bit of flapping.

    • The Chairman 3.3

      “Typical politician, always trying to get some reflected glory”

      I used to cringe when Key did it and it’s just as sickening when Jacinda does it.

      Attempting to extend ones popularity by being seen associating with high profile athletes and entertainers reeks of desperation.

      • Robert Guyton 3.3.1

        “sickening”?
        Those All Blacks, reflecting in Jacinda’s glory; I don’t find that sickening; it’s quite understandable really.

        • The Chairman 3.3.1.1

          No surprises a cheerleader such as yourself would see it that way, Robert.

          • mauī 3.3.1.1.1

            No, cheerleading from the Greens towards the AB’s though. Waiting for your effusive praise lol.

            • The Chairman 3.3.1.1.1.1

              Indeed, maui. And for that, they have it (my praise). So there you go.

              But they still aren’t doing enough to help the poor, while dumping additional costs upon them.

              • Muttonbird

                What are these costs? Are you still banging on about the cost of dumping rubbish?

                Any other examples of the Greens waging war on the poor?

                • The Chairman

                  “Are you still banging on about the cost of dumping rubbish? “

                  Dead right I am. It will be inflationary, thus hurt the poor the hardest.

                  Most businesses generate waste and as usual, additional costs incurred tend to be passed on.

                  As I’ve previously explained (several days ago) we are about to embark on a major transition, which the Greens will be largely leading (as Shaw is climate minister). And as such, are championing new environmental related charges. Such as significantly increasing tip fees and the proposed feebate scheme to incentivise the uptake of low emissions vehicles, which the cost of both will hit the poor the hardest.

                  These are merely two of a suite of changes that collectively will be as big as the reforms of the 80’s and 90’s that created a lot of pain and hardship, which we’ve yet to overcome. And like the reforms of the 80’s and 90’s, there is going to be a cost transitioning to a greener economy. Without protection, the poor will disproportionately carry the burden.

                  NZIER modelling on behalf of the Ministry for the Environment shows the impact of domestic climate action would be felt more strongly (more than twice as affected, on a relative basis, than those households with an average income) by lower income households.

                  The dilemma the Greens now face is they’ve made environmental wins but failed to get through their policies (such as tax and welfare) that would have protected the poor from the full cost of these environmental wins. Fueling the divide within the party.

                  So while the leadership are gleefully trumpeting their environmental wins it seems they are oblivious to salt they themselves are pouring onto the wound.

                  The Greens are more than just an environmental party. Therefore, instead of trumpeting their wins (further pouring salt onto the wound of those that feel the poor have been overlooked) I’d rather hear how they plan to restore the balance in what they stand for.

                  Perhaps Shaw can find a way to provide protection via his climate budget? Especially seeing as many of the additional costs the poor are about to face are going to be environmentally related and delivered by the Greens.

      • Kevin 3.3.2

        At least it was done in better taste.

        She wasn’t sitting there in the changing room, legs spread, necking a Heini and telling Keiran about when she did the accounts for the First XV when at high school, like Key did.

        • Robert Guyton 3.3.2.1

          Agreed, Kevin and I didn’t know, till then, that Key was a dwarf !!!
          Felt a bit of compassion, I have to say…

          • Morrissey 3.3.2.1.1

            It doesn’t matter that Key was shorter than most of those footballers. Many great men, as well as lesser ones like Key, have been short in stature. The problem with Key was that he was a moral pygmy.

            • OnceWasTim 3.3.2.1.1.1

              Compounded by his being an intellectual pigmy, but with an ego the size of bus and glands that secreted enough slime for his entire enterage of worshippers to slip along for the ride.

          • greywarshark 3.3.2.1.2

            Is anyone going to comment on the important issue that The Chairman being anti-left so always ready to shaft the government has managed to fit into this long winded discussion about another slippery politician. I wish when I put up an idea that people would read it and made a comment on how it would be viable for our problems or not. Trouble is they tend to be long and go into explanations so are trying on those with 20 second attention spans.

            So The Chairman poses at 3.3…..:
            But they still aren’t doing enough to help the poor, while dumping additional costs upon them.

            I think he means Labour. Or perhaps Greens. Never let a chance go by to bite their tales eh terrible terrier.

            • The Chairman 3.3.2.1.2.1

              Although I was having a snipe at the Greens for not doing enough for the poor while dumping additional costs upon them, how does standing up for the poor make me anti-left?

              And why did you have a snipe at me and not the Greens for dumping additional costs upon the poor?

              The left I belong to stand up for the poor, what kind of lefty are you?

            • The Chairman 3.3.2.1.2.2

              I’d also be interested in hearing your thoughts on this (link below) grey.

              Open Mike 27/08/2018

        • Puckish Rogue 3.3.2.2

          Shame, she could have added it to her CV 🙂

    • reason 3.4

      Its actually what the headline suggests TC

      “All Blacks coach Steve Hansen lauds his ‘special’ team to Jacinda Ardern ”

      “”When you think about the All Blacks and the brand it’s important we represent New Zealand really well, she leads our country, we respect her immensely, and it’s important she gets to know the people representing the country in the black shirt.”

      Although politicians politicizing sport is shit behavior from either side, imo …..I doubt she’d be telling the players how to stick their money in creative vehicles …. so they can skip out on paying tax in NZ …

      I suspect Key probably did that… especially when he got pissed. and wanted to show off.

      • Puckish Rogue 3.4.1

        “I suspect Key probably did that… especially when he got pissed. and wanted to show off.”

        Well being a close and personal friend of Sir John I can confirm he didn’t, so there 🙂

        • reason 3.4.1.1

          … ” Well being a close and personal friend of Sir John I can confirm he didn’t, so there ”

          Drunk on Tui’s ….Pucksucker ?

          You just posted a Tui movement …. not a moment 😉

          Steinlagers the official drink … try that … see if it makes you more truthful :0

      • The Chairman 3.4.2

        Shame the All Black’s success isn’t reflected in our national success. And having a PM in the changing room won’t improve our standing. Although, it did give the All Black’s coach an opportunity to hit the Government up for money.

        • reason 3.4.2.1

          The All Blacks success is based on a game stuff all countries take seriously …. ie they have thin or pathetic domestic competitions … we have have a rugby union players factory

          And if the Aussies had one code of football to concentrate on …. ie if their best players were not playing league and Aussie rules …. their team would have a similar win loss record against us as their cricket team.

          Rugby union is a failed international sport…..that is the context for the greatness of the all-blacks.

          • Morrissey 3.4.2.1.1

            The All Blacks success is based on a game stuff all countries take seriously

            More countries take rugby seriously than any other sport, except soccer.

            …. ie they have thin or pathetic domestic competitions…

            You obviously haven’t watched English, Welsh or French domestic rugby.

            … we have have a rugby union players factory

            So does France. So does England.

            And if the Aussies had one code of football to concentrate on …. ie if their best players were not playing league and Aussie rules …. their team would have a similar win loss record against us as their cricket team.

            Their “best” players? There is no one in either Aussie Rules or in Rugby League that is as good as Will Genia or David Pocock. There is no substance to this bizarre “theory” (if that’s the word for something to which so little thought has been applied) that there is a vast pool of untapped talent that would sweep away all opposition. In 2002 New Zealand finished ahead of the United States in the Basketball World Championship; all of America’s overwhelming talent didn’t mean it could put a decent team on the court.

            Rugby union is a failed international sport

            Au contraire, it is immensely popular. Only its sibling sport, soccer, is more popular and draws bigger crowds.

            …..that is the context for the greatness of the all-blacks.

            Sorry, but that’s nonsense. Of course there is much wrong with rugby, and it suffers from some of the most ridiculous over-hyping in sports or indeed any other endeavour—-especially that God-awful “World in Union” dirge. But your comments are unfair and horribly disrespectful, and show a very limited knowledge of the sport.

            • reason 3.4.2.1.1.1

              Rugby is a game of organized violence …. re-known for spinal injuries, knee reconstructions and concussions …. dwarfed by soccer in england, france and most other places .

              It has a long history of association with apartheid … the national party … and New Zealand breweries ….

              I’m well over it.

              …. having played the game ….. I’ve found far more pleasure and satisfaction engaging in music and dancing….

              I know which culture would be for better for NZ …. and it aint rugby culture.

              • Morrissey

                Rugby is a game of organized violence …. re-known [sic] for spinal injuries, knee reconstructions and concussions ….

                True. Very exaggerated, but true to a point. It’s also, of course, renowned for its speed, excitement, and beauty, and because it is often such a wonderful spectacle—which is why it is so popular.

                dwarfed by soccer in england, france and most other places .

                Now your lack of knowledge is really doing you, and us, a disservice. Rugby internationals in England consistently outdraw all other sports events. When the Millennium Stadium was being built in Cardiff, Wales had to relocate; the Welsh team played at Wembley at the same time England played at another London venue, Twickenham. Both stadia were simultaneously packed out. And in France, Rugby has always been known as the beautiful game, and it’s been immensely popular since the 1950s.

                It has a long history of association with apartheid … the national party … and New Zealand breweries ….

                All true, sadly. It also has a long history of association with working people, the Labour Party (as we saw on Saturday night) and many other vices besides alcohol.

                I’m well over it.

                Oh, so that explains the sourness. I’ve felt the same way about a few girls at odd times in my life. Passion can take many forms, including disillusionment and anger.

                …. having played the game ….. I’ve found far more pleasure and satisfaction engaging in music and dancing….

                Not sure about music, but surely you were able to appreciate the affinities that rugby football has with dancing?

                I know which culture would be for better for NZ …. and it aint rugby culture.

                If by getting rid of “rugby culture”, you mean getting rid of cheats like Richie McCaw, arrogant bastards like Steve Hansen and Grant Fox, and morons like those untermenschen who attacked John Hart’s horse at Addington in 1999, I agree with you. But what exactly do you mean by “rugby culture”?

                • reason

                  What is rugby culture ??,..

                  It’s the elevation of a non-important game elevated into national significance … to the point idiots compare it to the achievements of our nation.

                  It overlaps with police culture and national party culture.

                  .. its male dominated and ran amuck on Hamilton streets, when the last apartheid team from south africa toured here … to help National / rob muldoon win another election. … ‘We won, you lost, eat that’- Cec Blazey

                  ..if your a player its ‘smash em’ make them feel it and steamroll them into the mud ‘ .. after playing you support the club by drinking piss over their bar.

                  If your a non player but a fan ….its ‘come around lets get pissed and watch the game’.

                  Its also wet bus ticket treatment for all the bar assaults, drunk driving and domestic violence and general poor treatment of females that some rugby players get up to … because their special and we can’t hurt their rugby careers.

                  Dance culture is nothing like the underlying violence in rugby culture … perhaps because more females dance than males ?….. and you don’t try to smash em.

                  Music is creative ……….

                  Do you think rugby culture perhaps has something to do with NZ winning the world cup in domestic violence Morrissey ?…. or just a coincindence.

                  A google search of ‘the beautiful game’ brings up a page about soccor / football…. rugby does not make googles front page cut …silly french.

                  A google search of rugby tv ratings in austrailia brings up this from 2017 … “Rugby’s woes in Australia have been further emphasised by poor TV ratings for last weekend’s Bledisloe Cup test.

                  The All Blacks win over the Wallabies in Sydney was watched by just 371,000 metro free-to-air viewers across the Tasman.” …. ” It rated just ninth in free-to-air programmes, being beaten by three news bulletins, two AFL games, and episodes of Father Brown, Shetland and Gardening Australia.”

                  Finally test matches aside …. club rugby is dwarfed in england by soccor / football …. reflected in the payment salerys of players.

                • G’day, Moz. We had a discussion about the strength of rugger in France a couple of years ago. At the time, I provided attendance stats that showed that rugby crowds were, on average, smaller than those for second division football games.

                  This isn’t surprising because rugby is not followed nation wide. There are significant pockets of support in the south (both coasts and in the rural heartland) but the game has never taken off in the major urban areas.

                  Pre-war, rugby league dominated French egg chasing, but the right wing Vichy government banned the 13 man game in favour of the more elitist union. Hopefully, with the Catalan Dragons winning the Challenge Cup a few days ago, the balance may tip back toward the workers’ code.

          • Gabby 3.4.2.1.2

            Be fair reasy, Rules is for males who would otherwise play netball, they’re all knees and elbows.

    • North 3.5

      Oh you’re such an old sour puss PR……you’re forgiven though. I remember puking at the cringeworthy three hand scrum from Jonty ‘Regular Joker’ Key and indeed shitting malodorously when the great wanker donned ‘The Jersey’ for the cover of a rugby mag’. Which embarrassing ridiculousness wasn’t missed by Jerome Kaino and one or two others in the background…..taking the piss hard they were.

  3. SaveNZ 4

    No wonder NZ is developing so many problems like housing, transport and health and problems with trafficking in the Hawkes Bay! Immigration can’t even afford to deport people. As for wanting up to 3 people to accompany deportations, that is crazy from the airlines and just a money making venture as well as more people are coming from further afar.

    Maybe the NZ government having better arrival criteria like we used to, aka people having to prove they have the means to stay here and stopping people coming in, in the first place is the way to go.

    From the emails.

    “Should we locate [redacted target] as Shandy suggested we will have a whip around and run a couple of raffles,” investigator David Yandall joked in an email about the orders.”

    “No one was to be deported unless they were named on a list created by Immigration management when the funding shortfall was discovered in January.

    On the list were 22 inmates due to be released from prison, 48 alleged criminals and 14 individuals whose refugee claims had been rejected.

    It would cost $564,883 to deport all of them.”

    “The impact we have been having particularly in the Bay of Plenty with the unlawful Indian population will quickly revert once we reduce our activity.”

    Instead of finding and deporting illegal migrants, compliance staff were told to focus on “voluntary departures” – where overstayers are asked to leave at their own expense – debt recovery, and serving deportation papers.

    Immigration New Zealand budget blowout kept overstayers in NZ

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12111595

    • OnceWasTim 4.1

      “No wonder NZ is developing so many problems like housing, transport and health and problems with trafficking in the Hawkes Bay! Immigration can’t even afford to deport people. As for wanting up to 3 people to accompany deportations, that is crazy from the airlines and just a money making venture as well as more people are coming from further afar.”

      It’s a situation they brought on themselves @ SaveNZ.

      Until quite recently, they were encouraging all and sundry to become immigration consultants/agents – even promoted on their own website.

      Education agents could become immigration advisors, Labour Hire companies could become advisors. One-man-band Security companies could become agents.
      Depending on the supposed ‘skill shortages’ on the current list, nothing to stop bloody hair-dressing/beauty firms to become agents who could advertise their wares offshore, all in the knowledge that there was fuck all oversight (from the likes of IAA and others).

      Now (well actually for the now past several years), we see the results of shady PTEs; Filipino construction workers earning less than minimum wage; the cheapening of standards across the board.
      It was all supposedly ‘best practice’ based on lessons that should have be learned by offshore jurisdictions, and in some cases were, but that were copied here anyway in the great ‘business of immigration’.

      So once the entire fuckup has been allowed to fester for a decade, what’s the solution? Blame the victims of exploitation – most of whom only want to recoup the money they’ve been ripped, and deport – but try and get them to pay for it.

      And who are these geniuses?
      They’d be the ones that thought it OK to completely under-resource the likes of NZQA, and IAA, INZ and the Labour Inspectorate. (Close down offices and automate – for example.)

      It’s a situation that NZ’s past policy has caused, and one that the geniuses now continues to try and shift the blame onto its victims.
      No amount of inexperienced, short term contract staff, labour inspectors getting around in stab-proof vests, ministerial spin-meisters, demographic spreadsheets, targeting and unconscious bias et al is going to fix.
      IT may improve when responsible ministers in the new coalition government begin to realise they’ve been led up the garden path

  4. SaveNZ 5

    Wise advice.

    NZ companies “too competitive”

    New Zealand businesses are being urged to put competition aside and look to collaboration to help “weather the storm” of global economic disruption.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/university-of-auckland/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504296&objectid=12112982

    • greywarshark 5.1

      It is good that academics are there to help state the obvous and show that there are different ways of getting to the goal.

      But businesses that collaborate can form a cabal which is not regarded as good.
      They can become a monopoly which is not regarded as good.l
      That is why government doing a lot is not regarded as good.

      Yet the new word in the business world is ‘disruption’ which quickly makes products redundant and that is regarded as good.
      People have to constantly replace stuff that has become redundant and this is regarded as good.
      This produces a lot of waste and businesses even regard that as good, because then a business can do the job of moving the waste, to a poor country for a free which helps that poor country in some way, so that is regarded as good.

      We have hospitality entities needing staff who are trained in Queenstown and up north. They can’t get them because the training of young people to work in industry was to be done by the Industry Training Oorganisation or such – ITO.
      And that was regarded as good. However it hasn’t worked has it..

      Making a number of industries centred on houses which are a needed resource by all, and upping the demand through increased immigration was regarded as good.
      The by-product of rocketing house prices because of lower supply than demand was for people, even with families, not being able to find somewhere to live.
      But that was assisted with government filling the gap with accommodation subsidies which helped to inflate the whole housing market. Not at all good.

      Now industries and services can’t give employment to workers who are trained, or want to be, because there is no affordable accommodation. Not good.

      So industry has to follow its own new idea and bring disruption to this problem.
      They provide buses for workers from nearby towns who have accommodation but no jobs nearby, and they can include accommodation for workers in their business plan. That’s good. Business thinking for itself, not expecting all aspects needed to fall from the sky. Cargo cult thinking.

      If thoughtful, trained, experienced professionals and academics can keep feeding usefukl ideas with anecdotes and examples maybe something will trickle through to the concrete-conservatives in business and government. Also to business commentators with a brain not soaked with alcohol and/or promises of delightful holidays with the in-group ful of hubris about their own notoriety or position, many of whom just may be up for shares in new money-making concerns. Insider knowledge goes with the territory.

      With any luck, more new ideas of how to manage business sustainably will enter NZs heads and may filter down to pollies and those political advisors who have a large investment in their continuing salaries in keeping the present disastrous system, plugged, repaired, covered up and generally growing like bindweed above and below ground. So hard to eradicate, and so smothering of needed land and crops resource.

    • cleangreen 5.2

      100% ++++ SaveNZ.

      Labour need to ‘wean themselves’ off the old tired National policies now, and think there own real origional policies.

  5. Puckish Rogue 6

    So I’m trawling through youtube this weekend and I found some things that might appeal to posters on here.

    This is pretty funny, its a conservative (conservative not alt-right, he’s pretty clear on that) youtuber confronting a keyboard warrior and it goes pretty much how you think it’ll go:

    This next one is quite chilling, he talks with a journalist and posints out all the inaccuracies and the framing in her story and her response is telling and also makes you question what else the MSM get up to:

    • KJT 6.1

      My own experience of news articles, where I have personal knowledge, is that “journalists” have only nodding acquaintance with fact.
      Right wing ones, like most on TV, being the worst.

      • Puckish Rogue 6.1.1

        Well this journalist is very left wing but Steven goes through point by point the inaccuracies and her biases in her article and her response is quite telling

        The keyboard warrior one is just plain funny

  6. The Girl on the Karori Bus 7

    The Wheels on the Bus (Wellington version, 2018)

    The wheels of the bus go round and round
    Round and round, round and round
    The wheels of the bus go round and round
    All day long.

    The passengers on the bus go grumble, grumble, grumble
    Grumble, grumble, grumble, grumble, grumble, grumble
    The passengers on the bus go grumble, grumble, grumble
    All day long.

    The drivers of the bus go mutter, mutter, mutter,
    Mutter, mutter, mutter, mutter, mutter, mutter
    The drivers of the bus go mutter, mutter, mutter
    All day long.

    The owners of the bus go suck it up
    Suck it up, suck it up
    The owners of the bus go suck it up
    All day long

    The Regional Council goes don’t blame us
    Don’t blame us, don’t blame us
    The Regional Council goes don’t blame us
    All day long

    The voters on the bus go just you wait
    Just you wait, just you wait
    The voters on the bus go just you wait
    All day long

    • Graeme 8.1

      Putting my tourist retailer hat on I can see where they are comming from.

      We’re not anywhere near that footcount, so the crowding isn’t an issue, but we’ve lost a bit of stock through selfies, so once that starts they get close personal service.

      In a pre social media age we had a very eclectic shop in Arrowtown that would have been interesting in today’s world. Retail in tourist areas is now a free “experience” to be recorded for all. Unfortunately this doesn’t bring much return for the retailer. Good to see someone finding a solution.

  7. This scum farmer should have his farm confiscated.

    “A $34,000 fine handed down to a North Canterbury farmer… Scott Rutherford also faces additional costs of remediating land after he cleared about 70 hectares of the braided Waiau River, which despite being on his property title, was not permitted under the Resource Management Act. He did so despite knowing he did not have a resource consent in place.”

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/the-press/106553853/fine-for-north-canterbury-farmer-who-cleared-70ha-of-braided-riverbed-for-commercial-gain

    • McFlock 9.1

      Those fines need to be increased. Prick was making a commercial decision.

    • Herodotus 9.2

      He has 2 full years to remediate, with the works requiring to be complete in the middle of Winter !!
      I imagine he will also have to apply for a Resource Consent for the works ?
      To protect the council should not a caveat or some other notification be placed on the title, to ensure that the works are performed ?
      His past actions display some contempt to me of what Jan Scott Rutherford thinks of the system, so we need to protect the council from non performance.

    • North 9.3

      $34,000 is a piss-arse fine in the Resource Management Act scheme of things. Judge down Queenstown way on circuit ?

  8. Kay 10

    @Veutoviper re your off-topic question in the leaky Natz thread.
    I did make it to the Kilbirnie bus meeting yesterday but only lasted about 20 minutes.I’m having problems with sensory overload right now and it was a bit much to handle, so can’t provide a full report sorry.

    But it was good to see what I estimated to be over 200 people there (media says 300). I left just after Chris Laidlaw began speaking, and the jeering had pretty much begun as soon as it was obvious he was just repeating the same old talking points we’ve already heard ad nauseum and the token apology. Said extreme jeering & heckling seemed to be just a few individuals initially but it was pretty obvious even from what I was there for that most people aren’t prepared to hear out an organisation (GRWC) that continues to show nothing but contempt and definitely no desire to fix the situation. Personally, I’m not at all surprised that on the subject of Wellington buses even normally nice polite people have given up being nice and polite when it’s become painfully obvious that all our pre-change consultations were ignored outright and thousands of complaints since July 15th have been effectively ignored.

    I was standing outside the hall for a while having a chat with a very interesting chap about the situation and we were both listening to the noise from inside getting louder and louder so I can only imagine what was going down in there. About the same time a group of about 20 people walked out, not seeming very impressed with the way things were going but I can only speculate.

    I said in a previous comment about this that for once, politicians have managed to unite the entire citizenry. It will be very interesting to see whose names show up on the ballot papers next year…

    • veutoviper 10.1

      Thanks so much, Kay. And no need for apologies. I would not have been able to cope with that either for the same reason (sensory overload). So good on you for at least getting there. Well done. I really could not face it, which is quite the opposite to a few years ago.

      I am actually making slow ‘bit by bit’ progress on the issues of a group I am representing through working with a couple of Metlink contacts I have managed to contact, working with them on a cooperative rather than a combative basis so will continue with that.

      I actually found it interesting that Paul Eagle now Rongotai MP rather than Southern Ward WCC Councillor organised the meeting rather than either the Regional Council councillors or the WCC councillors. Good on him. As you say it will be interesting to see whose names are on the local government ballot papers next year! LOL.

      Kia kaha

      • greywarshark 10.1.1

        It is possible that Regional Councils are getting too far back from the people in the large area they have governance over.

        In the inner city the City Council has just introduced parking fares for weekends but i can’t see any map showing a circle route for the CBD. There used to be one that was really cheap and frequent but now there is only mention off a Hop on-off guided tour which takes away the low cost and convenience for no advantage at all to the independent visitor.

        Google:
        Home – Hop on Hop off | Guided Tours Wellington
        https://hoponhopoff.co.nz/
        A great guided tour and Wellington’s 11 best hop-off stops … Tours depart and finish from the city i-SITE Visitor Centre bus stop at 101 Wakefield St, starting at,, …

        The Mayor I think was making much of the extra $30-40 per annum? for ratepayers as a result of stopping free parking in the city. What a clot, and surrounded by similar. Wellington needs to bring people into the city. It is always promoting itself; it doesn’t want its centre to diminish. The hotels offer low rates in the weekends when the pollies and staff are off home to encourage people to come in.

        And this petty, small-minded geek is giving a small gift to ratepayers and businesses that used to pay a levy to cover parking. It will be a poisoned chalice. Any business that moaned about costs is one of the free-riders that won’t support their area. There are a lot of those in NZ, who won’t pay levies to ensure promotion and advertising for the locality and region, keeping them all in the public consciousness.

        • greywarshark 10.1.1.1

          The neo lib scheme of retendering for services every few years seeking to save money (and using the old cliche’, ‘cut out the fat’) and accepting low tenders has led to the sacrifice of Wellington (and others) bus drivers conditions and wages. To make a profit, drivers’ wages and conditions must be sliced and diced.

          Lefties will want to support Wellington bus drivers in their efforts to prevent being shafted by the Wellington Regional Authority with a petition against their miserly methods and lack of respect for bus drivers in their part of the bus service.

          Thank You Driver
          On a bus anywhere in the Wellington region, you hear it all the time – “thank you, driver” – as passengers get off at their stop. We say it because we appreciate our bus service – a good bus network and great drivers make a huge contribution to the life of our cities.

          But, for something that is so important, we’re treating the people who drive us poorly.

          Greater Wellington Regional Council has re-contracted many of the region’s routes to a new provider – Tranzit. Most drivers on these routes have lost their jobs, those who have got work with Tranzit are facing much worse terms and conditions. And Tranzit are refusing to negotiate with their union. Meanwhile Wellington’s bus service is in chaos because of this, and the regional council is pretending it’s not their problem.

          Let’s hold the regional council to account and make them fix the damage they’ve done. Please sign and say thank you driver!

          There is a very informative post on TS now about Wellington public transport and a faithful union member Chris Morley, who has just died of cancer.

          Remembering Chris Morley


          And the sign up for the petition is there.

          I have just today watched the film Celia about Celia Lashlie who died early. These twosacrificial people working for a better way and smaintaining or improving sandards of life both die of cancer. I think this tells us a story that we need to acknowledge.. Honour them in death, support and stand with them in life.

    • veutoviper 10.2

      Kay,

      PS – did you see The Wheels of the Bus (wellington Version, 2018) above at 7?

      Brilliant! ROFL.

  9. cleangreen 11

    Now the ‘concrete trucks’ are going on strike;

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1808/S00842/concrete-truck-drivers-strike-in-auckland.htm

    Good!!!! – that means less trucks cramming our narrow single lane roads with danger.

  10. Jenny 12

    The dirtiest of dirty politics. As practiced by the dirtiest lowlifes.

    Tenants ‘ironically’ like letting fees – landlords

    A group representing property investors says renters like letting fees, because paying them gives them an advantage over other potential tenants.

    Property investors, the speculative scum, most responsible for unaffordable housing. Claim renters are like them, in that they also enjoy getting an advantage over others worse off than themselves.

    These people should be ashamed to show their faces in public, that they do, astonishes me for their lack of self knowledge.

  11. Morrissey 13

    Max Keiser interviews Frankie Boyle (well worth watching!)

    This is from 2013, but it’s still highly relevant, as well as entertaining. Some thoughtful comments about Scottish independence, tame comedians (the English equivalents of our own Jeremy Elwood, Mike King and Andrew Clay) and racist politicians….

    FRANKIE BOYLE: Does Boris Johnson look like he’s capable of leading a country? He couldn’t lead anyone through a revolving door. He’s a bouncy castle with Alzheimer’s.

    At about the 7:30 mark, Max Keiser says: “Now, you have a visitor in Scotland. Donald Trump has shown up….”

  12. eco moari 14

    Good evening the Am Show There you go Duncan the price of food will rise because of Global Warming it is the poor that will suffer because of this phenomenon that is happening in Britain now .
    I’m a grandparent so when my mokopuna need money I give it .It was different for the tamariki I let the wife handle that I made them all pay board when they started full time work this teaches them to pay bill’s .
    We can not keep burning carbon if we want to leave te mokopuna’s a healthy Papatuanuku environment the way I see it we are guardians of Papatuanuku our main focus should be to leave the world in a better state for the Mokopunas its logical.
    The word’s of Senator John McCain are very good words I thank him for his vision to have them told at this time ka pai .
    The business in Aotearoa will be fine Aotearoa is one of the easy country’s in the world to set up a run a business and the government making a goal of becoming carbon neutral will help Exporters get a premium for there products by making OUR clean and green story true .
    Paddy the Pike River mine out come will please the whano of the people who were lost in that tragedy good work Paddy.
    Ka kite ano

  13. eco moari 15

    Other country’s have to hold these people in Myanmar’s accountable for there action’s this a religious raciest extermination that is not acceptable in the year 2018 The power’s that Be need to step up and make a stand against this it can not be ignored OR it becomes the new norm of Papatuanuku Many thanks to the United Nations for voicing the disgust at the way these people are being treated link below Ka kite ano

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/27/myanmars-military-accused-of-genocide-by-damning-un-report

    https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/27/technology/myanmar-army-facebook/index.html

  14. eco moari 16

    In the last six month I have seen six move and music Star’s having problem’s with alcohol once one turn’s into a alcoholic it is a hard drug for some people to control the habit they are always grumpy till they have a drink I can see these people easy as it is better to educate mokopunas about the bad affects of alcohol so they will learn to be moderate drinkers and don’t leave drinks unattended don’t go drinking with people you don’t trust your drinks could get spiked you could end up in the—— Kia kaha ka kite ano link below

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12114816

  15. eco moari 17

    Good evening Newshub Its been a long road for Bernie Monk to get to were he’s at now Paddy kia kaha .
    Well I’m not getting into that debate of Chelse Manning visit .
    I say that the cat ban in Omaui is a ka pai move look at all the beautiful bird’s there cat’s won’t go extinct but a lot of our bird’s are on that list.
    It.s awsome that people are able to be placed in a safe house instead of sleeping on the street ka pai .
    Ka kite ano P.S Jane Fonda is a good lefty socialist leader

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