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Open mike 27/07/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 27th, 2013 - 110 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

110 comments on “Open mike 27/07/2013”

  1. Jenny 1

    (I swear she gets up early to write comments on OpenMike).

    lprent

    I get up early to go to work.

    If you want to stop working people commenting on your Open Mike in the morning, Lynn you only need move the start time to 8am.

    • QoT 1.1

      God, your victim complex is boring. It’s not about the start time. It’s about you consistently whacking a great big pre-typed “if Labour doesn’t do exactly what I say it will be Armageddon” comment at the top of the page. I know it turns me off reading the rest of the thread, and I’m sure it does to others too.

      (Ditto Morrissey. You two do understand that blogs are free to create, right? I recommend WordPress but I know others favour Blogger.)

      • weka 1.1.1

        +1000

        ‘Cept why bother with a blog and building readership when you can hijack someone else’s?

      • Pasupial 1.1.2

        @ QOT

        I made much the same observation re: Jenny & Morrissey’s jostling for pole position, over on Lprent’s Jono post. But the way you say it is so much pithier.

        The blog creation may be free, but the time isn’t – I honestly don’t know how you manage it!

      • Morrissey 1.1.3

        Ditto Morrissey.
        Hmmmm. A quick search reveals that the last time I was first to post on Open Mike was two weeks ago. Hardly enough to spark an appearance before the Monopolies Commission.

        You two do understand that blogs are free to create, right? I recommend WordPress but I know others favour Blogger.
        What? You’re trying to tell us to form our own blogs? Does the term “fragmentation” mean anything to you?

        Anyway, I’m far too lazy to start a blog.

    • James 2.1

      why – Just because it is a woman that is the subject of the article?

      Hell – was it sexist when Clarke did the same thing (although a lot more photoshop in her one).

      If it was a Maori – would you be calling racist?

      Or perhaps – it was just an article.

      • Rosetinted 2.1.1

        James
        The point you made – it was just an article – is very relevant. Because writing a whole article for serious publication about how people, and particularly women, look (as compared to some ephemeral social standard) is one of the annoying ways that publications have of avoiding talking about the worth and achievements of women politicians or dignitaries.

        By concentrating on style and trivia, judging politicians on style and trivia, publications avoid thinking or writing or revealing the important story and the important issues are n society.

        Some of us here have been complaining about the NZ Listener going down this trivia road plus concentrating on the issues of the self-interested social climbing middle classes.

  2. karol 3

    I am in agreement with many things Trotter says in his posts, but this….?

    I was interested in the quote that begins the article:

    “THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN the two main parties,” said the late Bruce Jesson, “is that National governs for capitalists, and Labour governs for Capitalism.”

    Seeing that the article focuses on Shane Jones, I was expecting this to be highly critical of a Labour Party/Caucus that ensures capitalism survives, and to be especially critical of Shane Jones’ support of it, but …. no…. just the opposite.

    Trotter seems to be in praise of Jones focusing on “jobs” over the environment, and thereby (allegedly) separating Labour from the Greens. Trotter ends the article:

    t’s difficult to think of a sharper contrast between Labour’s view of the environment and the Greens’. When Mr Jones’ uses the word he is not thinking of the unspoilt sands of the East Coast or the dense bush of Northland. In his mind he sees the bleak urban environments of Tamaki Makaurau and Porirua: a world without decent housing; without steady employment; without hope.

    Labour makes capitalism work not in the interests of capitalists – but for the sake of their victims.

    Say what? Jones has of late seemed to me to be more in support of business and capitalism than the plight of struggling workers.

    • millsy 3.1

      Our national parks are under threat. If Jones and others had their way, they would be strip mined.

    • JK 3.2

      I agree with you Karol. Jones also dissed his own people from the Far North in that same Fairfax News item – because they don’t agree with mineral extraction (by overseas owned companies) happening in their rohe. I can’t understand Trotter : would have thought he’d see through the rightwing pretensions of Jones ! Instead he seems to be helping him (Jones) bolster his own made-up image.

    • Olwyn 3.3

      Given that the latest round of angst is said to have arisen among the Labour Party right, I take Trotter to be talking up the local-jobs-and-industry right, of which he sees Jones as being a member, over the lap-dog-to-international-finance right.

    • Bearded Git 3.4

      Trotter writes superbly but can be way off-line sometimes. For instance his insistence that National has a mandate for asset sales. And he also seems to be in thrall to John Key’s charm-to me it’s so easy to see behind that jokey smile. He (Trotter) is an old-fashioned labourite who has never really come to grips with the rise of the Greens.

      • Colonial Viper 3.4.1

        Let’s all remember that Trotter was also one of the biggest proponents of David Shearer in the very early days, and look at how that has turned out for the rest of us.

    • Saarbo 3.5

      Agree Karol, it seemed to be providing a positive message about Shane Jones. I really enjoy reading Chris Trotter BUT I dont know how anyone can be supportive of Shane Jones, he is not only an idiot and disgrace I think he is the most over rated MP in the Labour caucus. I have just enjoyed listening to Kim Hill making her views on Shane Jones clear in her interview with Ngahuia Te Awekotuku (Worth Listening to). Shane Jones should be turfed out when Shearer gets the boot.

    • Murray Olsen 3.6

      Whenever I find myself agreeing with anything Trotter has written, I read it more carefully. Apart from the fact that he can spout opposing views from one week to the next, he is almost inevitably an apologist for the “pragmatism” of the Labour front bench. This piece is Waitakere man to a t – saying that the interests of workers are opposed to the environment, but somehow in synch with those of Shane Jones’s capitalist mates. If Shane Jones has any interest in the downtrodden of Tamaki Makaurau or Porirua, it’s probably as cheap labour on Sealord’s boats.

  3. Ed 4

    Two recent events made me think about how our government is reducing services:

    First I spoke to an elderly lady who had fallen and cracked a rib. She was taken to the public hospital, but as there would be a 4 hour wait she was recommended to go to a commercial after-hours service (this was on a Sunday). Her ACC claim was accepted, but she received a bill for $58 from the after hours company. They explained that the bill had been reduced due to the ACC “subsidy” – from $88 down to $58.

    Second some time ago I had a free hearing test from a “National Hearing Care Clinic”. They wrote to me recently saying “The level of funding that the government via ACC provides Kiwis who have sustained a hering loss through injury or work place noise exposure has been drastically reduced since 2011. In light of this significant change I have been forced to to take the very difficult decision to close a number of our National Hearing Care clinics.”

    So much for compensation – ACC is regarded by National as a “free” insurance scheme which needs to be phased out – it seems that all benefits are now to be regarded as becoming a partial subsidy for costs incurred through accidents . . .

    What they could not achieve through privatisation they are attempting to achieve by ignoring the intent of the legislation and reducing benefits . . .

    • DavidC 4.1

      Ed its not a new thing. My Son tore his knee open about 10 years ago, took him to AandE and was told that is would be a LONG wait as they were dealing with a car wreck. The lady at A and E phoned ahead to a doctors surgery and we went there but it cost a LOT. 28 stiches I think tho!

  4. millsy 5

    So iwi are getting an exemption from having to reflag their FCVs.

    Which is disgusting. Though, the whole idea of iwi prefering to use FCV’s to harvest their quota and not bothering to to build their own fishing fleet and give their people gainful employment is absolutely digusting.

    They should have their quote taken from them without compensation and given to people who are willing to employ New Zealand fishing crews.

    • Cricklewood 5.1

      Its a rare day when i agree with Millsy but in this case he’s spot on. If the only way to make the quota viable is to use slave labour the fish are best left in the sea.

    • karol 5.2

      What are FCVs?

      • Cricklewood 5.2.1

        Foreign charter vessels. Basically run down dangerous boats flagged to countries with no rules around safety labour etc. They are often crewed by people who have paid a fortune to a broker for the job which is far removed from that promised. Not to mention there methods etc are far from desirable

        • Cricklewood 5.2.1.1

          Roughly speaking if you had say a million dollars worth of quota it might cost 900000 to catch it using a nz flagged vessel and properly paid crew. Or you can hire a fcv to catch your quota for 600000 ie more profit for the quota holder. As with any job as most here well know if your doing it cheap the first to bare the brunt are th employees terms and conditions. Not to mention dubious methods including high grading and fish dumping

    • Foreign Waka 5.3

      This is nothing new and has been practiced for a long time now. Any discussion about it was suppressed in NZ but not overseas. You can imagine how well that looks when Kiwis voice their concern on environmental and humanitarian issues. No one will say anything, but everybody is thinking the same.

    • bad12 5.4

      Yes while i have long been a vehement supporter of Maori having specific fishing quota for a resource that has from the time the first Maori set foot on these lands been both an immediate source of food and a much traded resource both between Maori and Maori and Maori and Pakeha i also believe that Maori settled for far less of the fish quota than they deserved,

      What has to be understood is that because of the various allocations of quota it is totally uneconomic for the Iwi to all operate and own fishing craft capable of actually catching this quota along with the infrastructure to further process these fish,

      The ‘catch’ we speak of here is not from the inshore fishery where small fishing boats can be put to sea on a daily basis and return with the catch that afternoon or night, what is being discussed here is deep sea fishing where the ships are at sea for weeks on end thus it is impossible for the myriad of small tribes with a small amount of quota to envisage owning sea going vessels worth many 10’s of millions of dollars,

      Having said all of that i am not happy with the current ‘means’ of using foreign chartered vessels with dubious, to say the least, labour practices to catch and process these many small quota of fish,

      Equally i am unamused at your ‘colonial response’ wishing for such quota to be recolonized by the State, the way forward for Iwi with an uneconomic amount of quota in my opinion lies in those Iwi pooling the quota and then investigating the fishing of this quota off of a deep sea vessel crewed by New Zealand sourced labour which they would all own as shareholding Iwi,

      How long it will take for these Iwi to re-organize their fishing interests i do not know, but, they should be given the time to do so….

      • DavidC 5.4.1

        New rules come into effect in 2016, isnt that long enough?

        No one is saying that Iwi cant rent out the quota only that the boats must follow NZ labour rules and laws.

        I think this is the first time ever I have agreed with Millsy! 🙂

        Evidently, Iwi have threatened to re-open treaty negs and seek a further $300Mil if they cannot use slave ships to do the fishing. What the fuck?

      • Cricklewood 5.4.2

        How’s that different to; ice got a really small forestry block so i need the feeling crew to work extra long hours in dangerous conditions for low or no wages so i can profit. Just because foreign nationals bear the brunt doesn’t make it acceptable. It must stop now

    • DavidC 5.5

      Why Iwi dont train and employ Maori youth for this work is beyond me.

      Is it just that the fatcats at the top dont really give a rats arse?

      • Draco T Bastard 5.5.1

        The Māori elite have taken the lessons of capitalism to heart.

        • Molly 5.5.1.1

          Annette Sykes gave a lecture on the appropriation of capitalism ideas by “elite” Maori, and from memory it talks about the fallacy of iwi success being measured by neoliberal values.
          2010 Bruce Jesson Lecture: The Politics of the Brown Table

          She speaks of how often this success comes at the expense of tikanga, especially kaitiakitikanga that guides decision making and choices.

  5. Morrissey 7

    Humbug Corner

    No. 20: NEVIL GIBSON

    The NBR editor thinks New Zealanders should admire the people on his paper’s “Rich List”….

    RACHEL SMALLEY: What this shows is that the rich are getting richer.
    NEVIL BREIVIK GIBSON: [long pause to indicate seriousness] Well, everybody’s getting richer.
    RACHEL SMALLEY: Really?
    NEVIL BREIVIK GIBSON: [long pause] Yeah.

    —TV3 Firstline, Friday 26 July 2013, 6:56 a.m.

    Humbug Corner is dedicated to gathering, and highlighting, the most striking examples of faux solicitude, insincere apologies, and particularly stupid recycling of official canards. It is produced by the Insincerity Project®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.

    More humbugs, mostly half-witted….
    No. 19 Byron Bentley: “He is a great guy, a good man … very caring…”
    No. 18 Rachel Smalley: “…heartbreak all over NSW as Queensland wins the deciding State of Origin!”
    No. 17 Jay Carney: ““He is not a human rights activist, he is not a dissident.”
    No. 16 Barack Obama: “I wish Muslims across America & around the world a month blessed with the joys of family, peace & understanding.”

    Open mike 11/07/2013


    No.15 John Key: “They know this is an issue of national security…”
    No. 14 Charles Saatchi: “I abhor violence of any kind against women…”

    No. 13 Toyota New Zealand: “The more Kiwis that lean, the more motivated our ETNZ crew will be to win.”

    No. 12 Pem Bird: “We’re there to do the business of advancing our people.”

    No.11 Whenua Patuwai: “They’re my brothers and to see one of them goes [sic]—it’s tough.”

    No. 10 [REMOVED]
    

No. 9 [REMOVED]



    No. 8 Barack Obama: “…people standing up for what’s right…yearning for justice and dignity…”


No. 7 Barack Obama: “Nelson Mandela is my personal hero…”
    

No. 6 John Key: “Yeah well the Greens’ answer to everything is rail, isn’t it.”
    No.5 Dr. Rodney Syme: “If you want good, open, honest practice, you have to make it transparent.”



    No. 4 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton’s… integrity beyond reproach…such great character…”
    


No. 3 Dean Lonergan: “Y’ know what? The only people who will mock them are people who are dwarfists.”
    


No. 2 Peter Dunne: “What a load of drivel and sanctimonious humbug…”
    




No. 1 Dominic Bowden: “It’s okay to be speechless.”



    • muzza 7.1

      “Everybody’s getting richer”

      Yup, as we annihilate the natural habitat around us, that provides the life sustaining and supporting properties so vital to all life on earth, you keep counting the 1’s and 0’s Gibson!

      Fool!

  6. Dv 8

    Any one else concerned about the touch and go credit cards.

    I asked my bank if I could put a $0 limit on the touch and go part of the card BUT they said they couldn’t, it was only in the control of the cc company.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/8970775/Hi-tech-criminals-target-cards

    A YouTube clip shows an American electronic security expert demonstrating how easy it is to harvest credit card details from a passerby in a shopping mall with the $100 credit card scanner, and cloning the details on to an electronic hotel key which he then uses to pay for a meal.

    In NZ
    Mr Castle became concerned for consumers when he tried a new mobile contactless eftpos scanner at his Frankton business about a month ago.

    As he wandered among staff with the new scanner he was able to debit $2 from each of their cards by waving the machine at them.

    “We tried putting our cards in our pockets and it still worked,” Mr Castle said.

    • muzza 8.1

      It’s just another reason to reject the use of cards, or any banking company that will not supply cards with some degree of security.

      These RFID bank cards were long since known to have no security features and be prone to fraud, that is how they were designed.

      The question is, why would the companies involved, produce such insecure cards!

    • weka 8.2

      What’s a touch and go credit card?

      • Arfamo 8.2.1

        They’re advertising to push them on telly at the moment – clever ad that makes someone paying in cash look bad holding up a moving line of customers by waiting for change. Card with a pre-loaded amount that you simply touch to a reader and it debits the charge for your coffee etc.

        • David H 8.2.1.1

          Bad tech, Old Tech. Discriminatory Tech. Money is bad Credit is good. Therefore everyone should live life on Credit, so the Banks/CC companies can get theirs by clipping the ticket every time you use the card. Then the Bank wins again when you are in so much debt, they hammer you with HUGE fees, then take everything of material value that you own. I wonder, how long it will be before Banks want you to do slave labour to pay off your Credit Card debts?

      • bad12 8.2.2

        New tech, apparently the user just need wave the card or swipe it at the reading apparatus and the deduction from their account is made without the use of a PIN number,

        LOLZ, from what i read you can walk through a crowd of people with a card scanner and even if they have their card in their pocket deduct money from them,

        These new cards are supposed to save time for the users, they sure as hell by the sound of them, save lots of time for the scammers…

        • weka 8.2.2.1

          Ok, but are they a credit card like visa with an extra function, or are they a separate card altogether? Can you just buy them and load them, or are they connected to a bank account?

          A big part of Cory Doctorow’s futuristic novel about teenagers taking on the NSA (and winnning!) was how the kids exploited ‘touch and go’ cards using scanners. The cards by that time were being used for things like public transport too.

          It’s a good read on future tech that is here now. http://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/

          • karol 8.2.2.1.1

            Nope just an ordinary credit card. My bank switched to tap and go for Mastercard credit cards a couple of years ago. I complained and asked if I could opt out. Answer, no. There’s no way to switch off the tap and go function. I asked if I could switch to another card. I was told they had one a=other card that didn’t have that function (a visa one I think)..

            But when I went into my branch to arrange it, I was told Visa would be going tap and go before too long, as would all credit cards.

            I expressed my disapproval to my bank, was told others had complained, but clearly they aren’t listening or don’t care.

            Does wrapping cards or wallets in foil work? The article mentions a metal sleeve that protects them.

            • McFlock 8.2.2.1.1.1

              foil works. I suspect the easiest way to remove tha tap&go function is to us a hole punch to break the foil aerial inside the card. But you might need to buy a replacement card if it stuffs the entire thing.

              • karol

                Well, foil i is for the time being.

                I just checked. <ASB still has a Visa card that does not have the marvelous, miraculous “contactless” function.

                I may do another check into changing my card. All but the first Visa option have the contactless feature.

                  • weka

                    The National Bank insisted that the last time my cc got replaced that the new one had a chip in it. Is the chip the thing that gets swiped/allows the data transfer?

                    • karol

                      I think so. My cc has that little square at one end that I put into the EFTPOS machines (rather than swipe it down the side). I think that square is where the offending chip is located.

                      I tried googling National Bank of NZ and kept getting ANZ.

                      It looks like ANZ credit & debit cards have the contactless feature for purchases under $80.00. And they have the little squares where the chip is.

                      I’ve never actually used the contactless feature – always use a pin, even for payments under $80.00.

                    • lprent []

                      I tried googling National Bank of NZ and kept getting ANZ.

                      ANZ brought National bank several years ago. Bit unfortunate as I’d gone to the National Bank to get away from the ANZ

                    • weka

                      Thanks Karol. They still put the chip in the machine, but it gets processed without the PIN.

                      Can’t remember what the issue was re teh PIN, something to do with being able to access cash out on credit (which is dangerous for low income people IMO).

                      ANZ took over the National Bank last year.

                    • Herodotus

                      As I commented before as the bank has now transferred the burden of responsibility of who incurs any cost regarding mis use/ fraud of these cards. then the cost of using credit cards should also reduce as now the card owner has to wear an increase of cost of fraud instead of the bank, saving banks plenty. But alas the savings are never passed back.
                      Just waiting for the 1st example on fair go/ Campbell or 7 shape of someone who has suffered being scammed as their card has been read as they walk thru a shopping centre doing nothing wrong. Banks = all care and no responsibility.

    • Tim 8.3

      yes I am (concerned), and I avoid carrying them where possible. Years ago, my son and I sat at Wgtn Airport with a bunch of home built electronics and a laptop – he being a bit of a nerd at the time. The results blew me away.
      I’m not all that keen on the new passports either, and other new technology where there is increasing danger of the onus being placed on the holder. Sometimes there is technology for the sake of technology, rather than introducing some substantially new benefit. (e.g. what’s the big deal in a ‘swipe’ versus a ‘nudge’ – SFA

      • Herodotus (CV Supporter) 8.3.1

        As we “card holders” are constantly being told that we are liable for not taking reasonable precautions in protecting our pin numbers and not using obvious numbers e.g. birthdays, phone numbers. How will the banks now weasel out of not covering fraudulent transactions with this buy and wave scenario.
        I held on as long as possible from having only a signing authority for use of my card, as if anyone took money out they were committing fraud and that the responsibility was on the bank to protect loss of their money, now with pin numbers the burden of responsibility was transferred from the banks to me. Wonder with this scanning how we are to protect ourselves ? Or as there is no ability then are we not then talking all reasonable care and it is the banks problem as we are using a tool they have supplied.

        • weka 8.3.1.1

          When I got my new chipped card I was told I had to have a PIN (didn’t want one). They were adamant that it was compulsory to use. None of the retailers where I live make me use the PIN though, I just put it through the same way as I always did. Weird.

    • Murray Olsen 8.4

      I found out my EFTPOS card will do debits without the PIN last night. I’d never noticed it before, and it’s not something I asked for. I’ll be trying to change it on Monday. If it were practically possible, I’d do everything with cash anyway.

    • QoT 8.5

      I figured this was a massive risk as soon as I heard about the concept. And I’m no tech-y person.

      The ads are fucking obnoxious, too – I can’t imagine how they got through the approval process given the rather obvious “don’t stop and think, sheeple, just keep consuming and walking through your life like automatons” subtext.

  7. CC 9

    The way forward is becoming clearer – John Pilger’s latest article: http://johnpilger.com/articles/how-we-are-impoverished-gentrified-and-silenced-and-what-to-do-about-it.

    What if 50 000 marched to, then trashed Waihopai?

  8. CC 10

    The way forward is becoming clearer – John Pilger’s latest article: http://johnpilger.com/articles/how-we-are-impoverished-gentrified-and-silenced-and-what-to-do-about-it.

    What if 50 000 marched to – then trashed Waihopai?

    • Santi 10.1

      You will be lucky if 50 (fitfy, five zero) march.

      • weka 10.1.1

        Santi, how many people did you predict would be at the Stop the GCSB meeting? And how many turned up?

      • Paul 10.1.2

        Do you ever have anything constructive to say?

        • weka 10.1.2.1

          Santi is the standard’s pet astroturfer at the moment. They gets paid to come here and undermine the left. They hardly ever say anything that isn’t serving that agenda, which I guess makes them not very good at their job.

      • Morrissey 10.1.3

        You will be lucky if 50 (fitfy, five zero) march.

        Santi, even if the public had been so demoralized that there were fewer than fifty people prepared to march against it—there will of course be many more than that, as I’m sure you realize—would that mean that their cause is wrong? Public opinion on this snooping legislation is overwhelmingly opposed to what the government is doing; do you think it is appropriate for our elected representatives—whether National, ACT, NZ First or Labour—to flout the public will so brazenly?

      • bad12 10.1.4

        LOLZ it only took 3 last time, that’s three, 03…

    • Morrissey 10.2

      Thanks for posting that, CC. As so often with Pilger, this is brilliant, insightful—and uplifting, despite its grim subject matter.

      I particularly like this paragraph, which should be read and meditated on by all supporters of state repression, from David Letterman to Jim Mora to Populuxe1….

      How long can the British watch the uprisings across the world and do little apart from mourn the long-dead Labour Party? The Edward Snowden revelations show the infrastructure of a police state emerging in Europe, especially Britain. Yet, people are more aware than ever before; and governments fear popular resistance – which is why truth-tellers are isolated, smeared and pursued.

      • aj 10.2.1

        +1

        And his closing sentence – from perhaps the greatest political poem ever ‘The Masque of Anarchy’ to remind us of past sacrifice.

        ‘Rise like Lions after slumber
        In unvanquishable number –
        Shake your chains to earth like dew
        Which in sleep had fallen on you –
        Ye are many – they are few.’

  9. Jenny 11

    Labour goes into damage control.

    An unnamed “Labour spokesman”, (I wonder who). Tries to put the toothpaste back in the tube after David Shearer’s appalling performance on Thursday night in Mt. Albert

    the party would commission a review of the legislation and implement any changes that came out of that although the new law would remain in place until that process was completed.

    Anonymous Labour Party ‘spokesman’

    “The situation is at is has always been – Labour has committed to, when it gets in Government, to having a full and independent enquiry into the intelligence services . . . and any changes will flow out of that,” the (anonymous) spokesman said.

    The comments come following a meeting in Auckland last night attended by a number of prominent New Zealanders including New Zealander of the Year Dame Anne Salmond and retired Court of Appeal Judge Ted Thomas as well as internet entrepreneur Kim Dotcom.

    MICHAEL FOX AND SARAH HARVEY for stuff.co.nz

    • Pascal's bookie 11.1

      🙄

      • weka 11.1.1

        Yep.

        Maybe we could try not feeding her today?

        • Veutoviper 11.1.1.1

          Agreed – besides she is well out of date. I posted that Stuff article here yesterday – almost 24 hours ago – as well as the earlier Herald article which referred specifically to Shearer’s statements on holding a wide review asap after the election if Labour get into power.

    • bad12 11.2

      i watched David Shearer las night on the TV news clearly state that Labour will hold a review of the security services and the Legislation,

      When the review is complete then Labour will rewrite the Legislation, if Labour simply scrapped whatever legislation was in place when it becomes the Government that will simply leave a ‘black hole’ within which the security services will be not be bound by any legislation,

      i can only assume that the ‘full review’ being promised by the Labour leader will also call for public submissions and due consideration will be given to such in writing new legislation governing the security services,

      What interest me is what Party you belong to, Labour by any chance…

      • Murray Olsen 11.2.1

        Surely it is the legislation which allows the GCSB to act, so that if it were repealed they wouldn’t be able to do anything beyond what normal citizens can do? I think Shearer is being very disingenuous talking about black holes.

    • lprent 11.3

      Don’t get too silly Jenny. Why don’t you use the net to figure out Labour’s policy rather than simply trying to do a jono and invent the story..

      Try this for instance – a google query for “site:labour.org.nz GCSB”
      https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=site%3Awww.labour.org.nz+GCSB&oq=site%3Awww.labour.org.nz+GCSB

      Dunne deal won’t restore confidence in GCSB | New Zealand Labour
      http://www.labour.org.nz/news/dunne-deal-won’t-restore-confidence-in-gcsb‎
      5 days ago – John Key’s last minute deal with Peter Dunne to secure a one vote majority for the GCSB bill won’t be enough to restore public confidence in …

      Telecoms join chorus against GCSB bill | New Zealand Labour
      http://www.labour.org.nz/news/telecoms-join-chorus-against-gcsb-bill‎
      Jun 26, 2013 – John Key must explain why the GCSB needs expanded powers to spy on New Zealand citizens when major telecommunications companies …

      Band-aid bill no answer to GCSB woes | New Zealand Labour
      http://www.labour.org.nz/news/band-aid-bill-no-answer-to-gcsb-woes‎
      May 6, 2013 – Under legislation tabled this afternoon, the GCSB will be allowed to assist the SIS, Police and Defence Force to spy on New Zealand citizens …

      Auditor General must investigate Key’s handling of GCSB appointment
      http://www.labour.org.nz/…/auditor-general-must-investigate-key’s-handling-o…‎
      Apr 4, 2013 – The only democratic oversight of the GCSB comes from the Prime Minister – and his story about Ian Fletcher’s appointment is changing daily.

      GCSB files show Key’s Dotcom tale unravelling | New Zealand Labour
      http://www.labour.org.nz/news/gcsb-files-show-key’s-dotcom-tale-unravelling‎
      GCSB files show Key’s Dotcom tale unravelling. David Shearer | Wednesday, October 3, 2012 – 13:22. John Key’s story that he knew nothing about his spy …

      GCSB needs more than another internal review | New Zealand Labour
      http://www.labour.org.nz/news/gcsb-needs-more-than-another-internal-review‎
      Oct 1, 2012 – The Government’s decision to start a second internal investigation into the GCSB’s actions, just days after the original was condemned as a …

      GCSB report proves need for independent review of intelligence …
      http://www.labour.org.nz/…/gcsb-report-proves-need-for-independent-review-…‎
      Apr 9, 2013 – Revelations about the extent of potential problems at the GCSB proves there is an urgent need for a wide-ranging independent review of all of …

      [PDF]
      View a list of legal privileged documents.
      http://www.labour.org.nz/sites/labour.org.nz/…/20130321_GRobertson_List.p…‎
      Mar 21, 2013 – 19/12/11 Internal GCSB email (part privileged) Legal Advice. 19/12/11 Compliance advice Legal Advice. 20/02/12 Internal GCSB email Legal …

      Did spies catch Key on tape on Dotcom? | New Zealand Labour
      http://www.labour.org.nz/news/did-spies-catch-key-on-tape-on-dotcom‎
      Oct 11, 2012 – “I’m calling on GCSB to confirm whether that audio-visual material still exists. … I have also today made a request to the GCSB under the Official …

      [PDF]
      You can view David Shearer’s letter to the Prime … – Labour Party
      http://www.labour.org.nz/sites/…/20120928_Request_for_Inquiry_letter.pdf‎
      Sep 27, 2012 – particular issue of the failings of the GCSB and its unlawful interception of information in the case of Kim Dotcom. However, I consider that this …

      and about a 1000 more links in Labour’s own site. Since the “anonymous” spokesman just repeated what David Shearer has been saying for almost a year now, it is hardly news (and he was likely to either be David or one of his press secs repeating).

      You really should learn to read more widely (and to use a search engine)

  10. Sable 12

    Edward Snowden can breathe a sigh of relief, he wont be tortured if he returns to the USA. If America is such a democratic country why would this have even come up an issue?. Full story here:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-tells-russia-we-wont-torture-edward-snowden-if-he-is-extradited-home-8734490.html

    • Jenny 12.1

      “I am not a crook”

      Richard Nixon

      The fact that he had to say it, condemned him in the eyes of millions and for all time.

    • David H 12.2

      We won’t torture him. BUT we will stick him into an 8×10′ cell, with some thug that kills and eats people, and we won’t come to his saftey when the usual nastiness runs it’s course in the Prison at night.
      \
      Torture?? Who Us?

    • Murray Olsen 12.3

      Is democratic really the world you want here? A majority can vote for some pretty foul stuff. Look at our government, for example.

  11. AsleepWhileWalking 13

    In today’s WTF MSD!? piece, an Australian consultant was paid in excess of $400,000 by the Family Commission. Dispite MSD’s preclusion to spending any money at all and playing up how the system is protecting taxpayers from those naughty bene’s milking the system of money to which they are not entitled, the minister has, “absolute confidence in management at the commission”.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8970559/Commission-rapped-for-411-000-consultant

  12. Rosetinted 14

    The closing date of the Constitution Conversation for submissions, ie 31 July. I copied some links to the site to help get information and background which can help in deciding on a submission. We don’t want a Constitution Con.
    I put them up on Friday’s Open Mike and carry them forward so they don’t get overlooked.

    CONSTITUTIONAL CONVERSATION 2013 – SUBMIT, SUBMIT
    See Constitutional Conversation advertisement above and check out all you need to know.
    Please send your submission by 5pm 31 July 2013.

    Get thinking with a quiz on each of five Topics.
    1 The Constitution http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/store/doc/NZC_QuizSheet.doc
    2 The Bill of Rights http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/store/doc/BOR_QuizSheet.doc
    3 The Treaty of Waitangi http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/store/doc/TOW_QuizSheet.doc
    4 Maori Representation http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/store/doc/MOR_QuizSheet.doc
    5 Electoral Matters http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/store/doc/ELM_QuizSheet.doc

  13. Boadicea 15

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Cunliffe-takes-mic-at-anti-GCSB-meeting/tabid/370/articleID/306521/Default.aspx

    I hear that Sheaert will take the Mike at the Auckland meeting at 2.00. He will have Cunliffe on stage with him. Smart. That is how to respond to TV3’s latest distortion piece.

  14. yeshe 16

    More proof that this gubmint can’t do sums at all … an Australian expert on what Sky City have really gotten away with .. Joyce and Shonkey are COMPLETELY USELESS.

    It says Sky City will recoup all of its costs within 3 years !!!! Dammit, Shonkey can’t even do very well with what he is supposed to be good at ! Oh please, let something prevent the passage of this onerous bill.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8970513/A-licence-to-print-money

    • Draco T Bastard 16.1

      More proof that this gubmint can’t do sums at all … an Australian expert on what Sky City have really gotten away with .. Joyce and Shonkey are COMPLETELY USELESS.

      Depends upon how you look at it. They’re doping great for their rich mates and the multi-national corporations but they’re screwing over the rest of NZ to do it. Of course, that was their entire purpose all along.

  15. joe90 17

    Seems there’s an awful lot more to worry about than a lake at the North Pole.

    A sudden methane burp in the Arctic could set the world back a colossal $60 trillion.

    Billions of tonnes of the greenhouse gas methane are trapped just below the surface of the East Siberian Arctic shelf. Melting means the area is poised to deliver a giant gaseous belch at any moment  – one that could bring global warming forward 35 years and cost the equivalent of almost a year’s global GDP.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23923-huge-methane-belch-in-arctic-could-cost-60-trillion.html#.UfMcuNLfBrM

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v499/n7459/full/499401a.html

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/earth-insight/2013/jul/24/arctic-ice-free-methane-economy-catastrophe

    • notwoniceuh 18.1

      conflicting details between the stuff and herald articles. stuff doesn’t mention the images of hitler and john key or the gas cylinders in the back of the jeep. methinks this is fairfax censorship at work.

  16. Draco T Bastard 19

    How to be a rogue superpower

    All of this adds up to a new version of deterrence thinking in which a potential whistleblower should know that he or she will experience a lifetime of suffering for leaking anything; in which those, even in the highest reaches of government, who consider speaking to journalists on classified subjects should know that their calls could be monitored and their whispers criminalised; and in which the media should know that reporting on such subjects is not a healthy activity.

    I’ve read The Handmaid’s Tale and as time passes what it describes is coming ever closer to reality.

  17. logie97 20

    I wonder if Joky Hen will be able to remember 2013 in 20 years time.

    Q: What were you doing when many of your fellow countryfolk were concerned about the dismantling of the welfare state that you were so much a beneficiary of, dodgy convention centre deals, spying on the citizenry?

    A: Oh, umm well I don’t remember achsully. I was Prime Minister at the time, but never really got involved with the minutiae – can’t remember names or who I met. A lot of my associates and friends seemed to get plum jobs though. Ah shtrange that … mmm. I can’t remember achshully.
    Oh I remember I had a rerrly bad cold while meeting a nice Korean lady. Nah, but in answer to your question … 2013 mmmm no sorry cant remember. Don’t think it was an important year.

  18. Typical Kiwi 21

    Security experts to test phone anti-theft locks

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10900115

    40% of all robberies in NY and 50% in San Francisco were phone related.

    175 million phones purchased in the last year in the states and almost 1 in three were stolen.

    I do not think that the proposed GCSB legislation is going to be able to track the user of a stolen phone and an innocent person will be incriminated.

    • weka 21.1

      I do not think they care. It’s pretty easy to sacrifice a few individuals when the whole nation is at risk (aka when the whole nation needs to be controlled for their own good).

  19. Colonial Viper 22

    Shearer on Q&A tomorrow morning. Don’t miss it.

    • Alanz 22.1

      Looking forward to him waxing eloquent, sounding smart and sharp as the PM-in-waiting.

  20. Colonial Viper 23

    His typical media performance is gradually improving. But his political judgement and personal value system is still a total black box.

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