Open mike 27/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:20 am, August 27th, 2014 - 251 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

251 comments on “Open mike 27/08/2014”

  1. Awww 1

    Have payments to Slater been reported as income to the IRD?

    • Rosie 1.1

      Lol, exactly what I was wondering as I was reading about the invoices he issued to Facilitate. Easy grubby money, plenty of it to.

    • Lanthanide 1.2

      Hopefully the IRD will do an investigation. But I doubt we’ll find out publicly as it’s not really in the public interest.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1

        Oh, I think at this point in time it is in the public interest. Dirty Politics has thrown it in there.

        • Lanthanide 1.2.1.1

          If there was wrongdoing found, then I’m sure that would be reported, as such tax evasion cases generally are. But up until then, it’s not really the public’s business.

          • Rodel 1.2.1.1.1

            So suddenly Paula Bennet & Company views on benefit frauds and others view on tax evasion..is no longer a matter of public interest or public business? funny how things change.

    • NickS 1.3

      What’s to bet the slug was also pulling a benefit at the same time…

  2. Raa 2

    Re. ‘Kill the PM’ song not worth a response – Key
    https://tvnz.co.nz/vote-2014-news/kill-pm-song-not-worth-response-key-6064653

    .. do we have a Luskian agent provocateur in our midst ?

    It would not be the first time.

    • tricledrown 2.1

      We need a hacker to look into Lusk and his continuing dirty tricks

      • disturbed 2.1.1

        +++++100% someone’s still an operative, seems like to me.

        • yeshe 2.1.1.1

          watch clutha/southland I reckon, and is it Hutt ? … big tobacco’s Nat boys …. they are Lusk’s future. God forbid they should be ours.

          • McFlock 2.1.1.1.1

            trouble is that even despite that cluthasouthland is a safe seat. But hopefully liz craig will get enough to put some worries in the minds of nat powerbrokers.

    • emergency mike 2.2

      Weird tho, David Farrar reckons that ‘the left’ has to ‘respond’ to it pronto.

  3. Paul 3

    Biased media reporting with the usual personality driven comments (as opposed to the issues discussed) by Fairfax Media.
    I guess that’s what you get if you’re owned by a large overseas mining corporation.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/10427022/The-slick-and-the-dead-calm

    • Hanswurst 3.1

      It’s particularly interesting in light of the article “Mine blast rings on in PM’s ears” in the Herald, which makes a day in Key’s campaign sound like a fairly poorly organised and fruitless affair. The difference is, of course, that it doesn’t imply that that sort of thing would never happen to Cunliffe.

      • Bob 3.1.1

        “it doesn’t imply that that sort of thing would never happen to Cunliffe” As shown by his omnishambles of a housing policy re-release today!
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10430104/Homes-still-out-of-reach-under-Labour

        “Twyford could not point out one of the properties he was talking about, saying they were scattered through the development.

        The party could also not say how many $360,000 homes would be built.

        Cunliffe and Twyford brought Auckland couple Jordy Leigh, 20 and Harrison Smith, 20, to support their policy.

        With a joint income of $75,000, under Labour’s plan their mortgage repayments would be $577 a week, compared with $777 under National. If interest rates remained at 8 per cent, they would save nearly $150,000 in interest and more than $110,000 on their mortgage principal.

        However, Leigh, an EPMU union member, said their first home would still be out of reach even under Labour.”

  4. http://whoar.co.nz/2014/legalizing-weed-is-%E2%80%98a-security-issue-says-uruguayan-president-comment-the-cheapest-weed-in-the-world/

    (ed:..a fascinating aspect of what has been done in uruguay..

    ..is that to ensure the removal of criminal-elements entirely from the market..

    ..mujica has mandated that the govt-grown/supplied cannabis in uruguay –

    • will be sold at a fixed price of $2 per gram…)

    (if you wd rather not read my comment on this..you can go directly to source..

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/21/mujica-weed-security-_n_5698413.html?utm_hp_ref=latino-voices )

    • adam 4.1

      And Phillip – Colorado is still there right? It hasn’t blown up or anything? The world is still turning? Indeed society has not collapsed, while the world slowly brings back weed to normality.

      But no – lets keep it in the hands of gangs – then introduce more law and order policies which undermine civil rights.

      • phillip ure 4.1.1

        then there is that latest herald digi-poll..

        ..showing that only just under 20% want things to continue as they are..

        ..but the politicians still all run from it..

        ..is 80% not enough of a mandate for them..?

        ..are they hanging tough for 100%..?

        • adam 4.1.1.1

          But, then they can’t have their racist laws Philip.

          Or help out their mates who own the private prisons.

  5. Ad 5

    The electricity policy re-launch was helpful, but what Labour really needs this week is a faster response to Key’s election-launch housing initiative. Housing policy needs to be matched in the media against housing policy.

    • Wreckingball 5.1

      Possibly the worst of Labour’s policies. What was funny was at the retirement function of a particular electricity boss the other day, he spent 5 minutes plastering Labour’s policy with Parker in the room. You should have seen his face. Absolute gold.

      • Ad 5.1.1

        And now right on cue Cunliffe gets back into the game with housing.
        $360,000 for your first house, humble though it may be.
        100,000 new homes for New Zealand.

        This is the closest to middle class aspirational policy.
        Go you good things.

  6. Ad 6

    Anyone detect a winner out of last nights Queenstown Radio Live economic debate?

  7. Belladonna 7

    Russel Norman impressed me the most. He came across as convincing and went a long way to showing the Greens to be a responsible party and not ‘loonies’ when it comes to finance as the nats and the media love to portray them.

    • tc 7.1

      Yes and the MSM regurgitate the instability themes around that bad bad ‘left’ when greens/labour were a very stable coalition in their own right last time out. More inconveniently ignored facts.

    • ScottGN 7.2

      I just bumped into Russel Norman in Queenstown. It was a pleasure to shake his hand and wish him and the Greens well for the election.

    • yeshe 7.3

      @belladonna .. did you see the offers yesterday to loan you Dirty Politics ? fyi .. go back to your library reference ..

      • Belladonna 7.3.1

        @ yeshe
        I have decided after watching The Hollow Men and the Frost/Nixon dvds my blood pressure mightn’t be up to more Dirty Politics just now. I will read it, probably after the election, by which time I will either be in a told you so/smug frame of mind or very depressed. Appreciated your suggestions though.

        • yeshe 7.3.1.1

          that’s a heavy diet of filthy you’ve been on, I understand. take best care down there .. the offers are always there if you want …

    • Bearded Git 7.4

      Russel talked to a packed meeting in Wanaka yesterday. The Force is with the Greens; not putting a foot wrong.

      Watch for increasing attacks on them from the Nats. Oops I forgot, their attack dogs have been muzzled.

      • ScottGN 7.4.1

        I reckon National’s election campaign is really starting to unravel. They are playing defence on a lot of fronts now and attack is looking less likely as we head into the last bit of the campaign.

  8. Saarbo 8

    Have heard from a very good source that if the Fonterra auction stays where it is, then the Fonterra payout will be around $5 per KGMS, perhaps under, which would mean many farmers would be forced off their farms. Most farmers would be losing money. Its a drop of just under $6b in export receipts…our so called “Rock Star” economy has gone, big time.

    This doesn’t seem to be making much noise in the media, although Bernard hickey did mention on RNZ The Panel last Friday.

    • disturbed 8.1

      ++++++100%

    • felix 8.2

      Funny isn’t it? The govt that owns the companies that essentially determine the price of milk powder is the same govt that owns the companies that buy up the farms when the price of milk powder drops.

      Sure, they overpay for a few years but considering most of it went into improving the farms they end up owning, I’d say it was money well spent.

  9. Penny Bright 9

    Had GREAT day yesterday out in the Helensville electorate.

    Got an overwhelmingly positive response from shop keepers in Kumeu / Huapai and have posters up all over the place.

    They’re advertising the Public Meeting I’ve called for Saturday 30 August in the Helensville War Memorial Hall (49 Commercial Rd) from 2pm – 5pm.

    ‘Stop corruption and dirty politics!’

    Myself and fellow anti- corruption ‘Public Watchdog / whistleblower’ Grace Haden will be exposing corruption at local and central government level which has NOT (yet) had mainstream media coverage and – more importantly – be putting forward simple, straightforward policies to STOP ‘white collar’ crime, corruption, ‘corporate welfare’ and ‘dirty politics’.

    This Public Meeting is being organised mainly for the benefit of the voting public residing in the Helensville electorate.

    Unfortunately, the timing does clash with the march being organised in Auckland starting at 1pm.

    My fault – when checking the availability of this Helensville Hall – only Friday night and Saturday were free, and I chose Saturday without double- checking other events.

    However, in my view, what’s being discussed in Helensville at this meeting will complement concerns that will be expressed in marches in main centres all over New Zealand this Saturday.

    What’s making this Public Meeting somewhat different is that I have invited all political parties who were represented at the Helensville candidates meeting held at the Kumeu Baptist Church on 11 August 2014, to have 5 minutes each to put forward their policies on these issues.

    Representatives of all political parties who chose to attend are welcome to bring their political advertising material with them.

    Local papers are/ have advertised this meeting.

    It should be FUN!

    Cheers

    Penny Bright

  10. wyndham 10

    Is Judith Collins living in some fantasy denial world ?

    Today she is claiming that the Privacy Commissioner has completely exonerated her from guilt in revealing Mr. Pleasant’s personal contact details to Slater. In fact she claimed this more than once.

  11. North 11

    Judith Collins – liar. Unrepentant liar. Demonstrably unfit to be a member of parliament even, let alone a minister.

  12. yeshe 12

    morning laugh .. Paula Benefit, fighting back some years earlier … really Paula ?

    and if you don’t already visit this website, you are missing some fine humour …

    https://www.facebook.com/StandDownJohnKey

  13. Rodel 13

    New Zealand’s own Cirque du Soleil -or is it Disney Land?

    Slater-Lusk-Williams- Farrar-Key-Collins-Rankin-Jamiwhite-Colin( aka Sue) Craig and now good old Tama Iti.The list goes on.

    David Cunliffe and his colleagues seem awfully normal and genuine in comparison.Even Winston (nearly).

    • nadis 13.1

      Tame Iti

      Shame he only has a relatively low list ranking. I would love to see him in parliament.

  14. aucklanders interested shd note that nicky hager is giving a public talk @ the hall on the cnr dominion rd and balmoral rd @ 7.30 2nite..

    ..and real political junkies can do a twofer..

    ..’cos you can have face-to-face questioning of green mp’s from 5 pm – 6.30 @ the alleluya cafe in st kevins arcade on k rd…

    ..and then you can pop down the road for hager..

    ..(..mmm!!..politics-o.d..!..)

    ..i have some questions for hague re pot..

    ..and for mathers re the vivisectors..

  15. i just tried something i had only read about before..

    ..(xtra-crunchy) peanut butter and banana on toast..(connons wholemeal..aficianados will nod in agreement..)

    ..and i hafta say..

    ..i’ll be going back there again..

    ..the lingering aftertaste is particularly piquant..

    • yeshe 15.1

      ’bout time Phillip ! 😀

      • phillip ure 15.1.1

        that’s what i’m feeling about the matter too..

        ..i am being quite harsh on myself here..for my laggardness on such an important/life-affirming experience..

    • tricledrown 15.2

      Philip your liver kidneys heart arteries veins duodenum will be wishing you had rejected the high fat high salt peanut butter !
      + your cannabis intake being as “high” as you claim your kidneys will be over loaded and your liver will be getting scared!
      Everything in moderation just. Because you are vegan it doesn’t mean your any healthier!
      Avocada and banana would be healthier and much nicer tasting do try.
      You have given up other addictions your physiological addiction to Dope seem’s not to bother you no drug is completely safe!

      • phillip ure 15.2.1

        but tricle..!..it’s one of the few vices i have left..!

        ..leave me be with my pot and my peanut butter..!

        ..and on the plus side for all those organs you cited..

        ..t don’t eat meat/animal-fats/cheese..

        ..i don’t drink alcohol..i exercise..

        ..so..y’know..!

        ..(and i agree..avo/banana is up there..)

        ..and something that may have purists screaming:..have you tried hummus on tomato-based pasta dishes yet..?

        ..oohh!!!…that lifts them to a whole new level..

      • phillip ure 15.2.2

        “.. your cannabis intake being as “high” as you claim..”

        sheesh..!..i wish…!

        ..compared to packing multi-layers grass/hashish chillums of days of yore..

        ..my consumption now is almost homeopathic-dose sized..

        • left for dead 15.2.2.1

          hashish chillums ,… Hav’nt heard that word in a while,oh the memorys.

          • phillip ure 15.2.2.1.1

            a good/well-packed/layered-one shd last 30-40 mins..

            ..and should be able to floor a room full of people…

            ..to have most of them all feet-up…

            ..and only the real drug-pigs left still battling on..(ahem..!..)

            ..the young folks now with their..’but it’s hydroponic!’..?

            ..meh..!..they don’t know what a good toasting is..

    • Puckish Rogue 15.3

      I had bacon and eggs on toast last night, quite delicious so you should try it

      • phillip ure 15.3.1

        there you see on display..the wit/innovation of those on the right..

        ..i wonder how p.r.s’ organs are holding up..?..under onslaughts like that..?

        ..whoar..!

        ..’holy pig-fat-denialist..!..batman..!’..

        • Puckish Rogue 15.3.1.1

          Well according to the bloods I had done recently I’m in fine fettle (well everything they tested is in the right range) but if it helps both the bacon and eggs were free-range and the bread was brown

          • phillip ure 15.3.1.1.1

            y’know what the marker is for high-quality bread..?

            ..how long it takes to toast..

            ..connons wholemeal has to be as long as possible on my toaster..

            ..and then some more..a 12 out of ten..

            ..whereas brown supermarket -bread is nearing burnt with one sixth of that toasting-time..

            ..a 2/10..

            ..that’s ‘cos there is so much air in it..

            ..and air doesn’t take long to toast..

            • Rosie 15.3.1.1.1.1

              It’s Breadman Bakery organic rye sourdough from chch for me. All the way!

            • Pukish Rogue 15.3.1.1.1.2

              You really think I buy cheap bread?

              • as you are a rightwing/neo-lib-ratbag..

                ..one for whom the current system runs..

                ..probably not..

                ..that’s only for the poor-folks..eh..?

                ..the ‘losers’..in yr paradigm of choice..

                • Pukish Rogue

                  Wow assumption much?

                  • oh no..!..are you like one of those sad cases you wd see clustering around rich actites..like flies around shit..?

                    ..that most tragic of individuals..the ‘poor’-rightie..?

                    ..dear me..!..what a life of dislocation/serial-humiliations that must be..

                    ..you wd need good quality bread..

            • ScottGN 15.3.1.1.1.3

              I thought it was all the sugar they stick in the cheap stuff that makes it toast quick? Vogel’s is my pick of the commercial loaves but mostly I buy European Bakery here in Queenstown. A very good sourdough and at $4.60 a loaf it’s a bargain too.

              • sugar + air..?

                ..and it’s interesting how over the last 5-6 yrs most breads have gone vegan…

                (..and ya/we didn’t even notice..didya/we..?..)

                ..vogels is notable for being such a hold-out on that..

                ..one of the few still using dairy in their bread….

                .

          • yeshe 15.3.1.1.2

            yes it all ‘helps’, but nothing helps the pig who was dead. I’ve always pondered the missing moment I cannot find anywhere in the universe where ‘dead body’ suddenly becomes ‘fresh meat’.

  16. yeshe 16

    Can some journalist out there please ask the National Party if Jason Ede remains on their payroll ?

    How very black ops is his disappearance. Someone must be paying him a veritable fortune to remain completely hidden until well after the election.

    His absence seems the biggest proof of all.

    • Chooky 16.1

      +100…would love to see a profile on him….is he working for an agency/govt outside New Zealand?

      • bad politics 16.1.1

        I re watched The Hollowmen last night, & Ede is in the footage talking to Richard Long, so he has been on the payroll for a while it seems.

        • Chooky 16.1.1.1

          thanks…had better watch that…he is the invisible man in this whole recent saga…so the man to watch for

  17. Chooky 17

    ‘Cunliffe vs Key – first leaders debate: what does winning & losing look like?’

    By Martyn Bradbury / August 27, 2014

    “The first leaders debate happens this Thursday, 7pm on TV One. I have been invited to be part of the Green Party’s ‘Green Room’ to commentate on the debate as it happens so I will be live tweeting my thoughts during that, but before we get to there, let’s look at what winning and losing looks like for Key and Cunliffe…

  18. Rosie 18

    Maori TV kicked off with it’s Maori electorate candidates debates on Monday night. First up was Te Tai Tonga. It was a little lacklustre with the exception of the most fine, sharp and fabulous Georgina Beyer (IMP).

    What stood out was the polls, and how opposite the results were for Maori TV compared to the poll results we hear about all the time. 43% of Te Tai Tonga voters would give their party vote to Labour while 17% would give their party vote to National:

    https://www.maoritelevision.com/news/politics/kowhiri-14-labour-ahead-polls-te-tai-tonga

    Throughout the programme street interviews were conducted. Overwhelmingly people wanted this government out. There was one man supportive of the Key Government but even then he didn’t sound he was that convinced of what he was saying.

    Not for the first time I thought about how overlooked the Maori view and experience is in our mainstream media. After watching Maori TV for a bit and switching back to TV1 and 3 you get the feeling that those chanels are aiming their programmes at a mono culture, and what a dull pasty culture it is they promote.

    • @ rosie..

      ..aye..!

      ..the docos they show are invariably of a very high quality..(tues nites..whoar..!)..

      ..and so so much more..

      ..if i was told i cd only have one channel..i’d pick maori tv..

      ..and pakeha that don’t dip into maori tv..

      ..really are restricting their vision..

      • phillip ure 18.1.1

        the difference in styles of the political shows are stark too..

        ..native affairs is a reasoned dialogue..

        ..where guests are allowed to say their piece..

        ..as opposed to the sneering/combative/cynical/gotcha!-bullshit routinely served up by the usual suspects on pakeha tv..

        ..native affairs seems to believe in letting the audience make their own minds up..

        ..as opposed to having some clown going in there primed to trip-up the guests..and to drive the agenda/content of any interview..(you know who you are..)

        ..and thus showing total disrespect to those they are meant to be there to serve..

        ..the audience..

        ..in the main the audience leaves those mainstream encounters..none the wiser..

        ..which behooves who..exactly..?

      • Rosie 18.1.2

        Maori TV is always a breath of fresh air compared to the other channels. Yes, great doco’s! High standards all round, and brought to the viewer with heart, flair and integrity.

        The other channels are really lacking by comparison.

        During the last election I abandoned TV 1 and 3 for election coverage all together in favour of the down to earth feisty debates and discourse on Maori. Putting the “reality” into TV!

        This election campaign is different from 2011 however and I will give the leaders debate on TV 1 a go on Thursday. Hoping that DC will own it 🙂 (Thanks for the heads up Chooky)

    • Chooky 18.2

      +100 Rosie …agree!…”After watching Maori TV for a bit and switching back to TV1 and 3 you get the feeling that those chanels are aiming their programmes at a mono culture, and what a dull pasty culture it is they promote.”

      and the “fine, sharp and fabulous Georgina Beyer”….I have always been a fan of hers too

    • yeshe 18.3

      +100% Rosie. I love Maori TV and most especially Mihingarangi Forbes … she does to political TV what Nigella does to chocolate — with an incisive intellect. Always watch it, and it seems it is the last media spot with any integrity. No wonder some pollies want it excised from our screens.

      And Marae is always worth a look on TV1 .. some fine reporting on issues that don’t make the front page of MSM .. but they should.

      And good luck tonight with your meeting … Duplicitous Dunne — Done and Dusted !

      • Chooky 18.3.1

        “Duplicitous Dunne — Done and Dusted !”…i am drinking a glass of champagne on the night on that!

        • Rosie 18.3.1.1

          Me too Chooky! I’m sure there will be glasses raised all over the country if Dunne goes!

      • Rosie 18.3.2

        Hi yeshe. Do you mean the ‘future of the public service’ talk that Virginia Andersen is hosting? I won’t be in attendance at that one but will be at the first of the candidates meeting next Monday night.

        Dunne and dusted indeed! I’m getting anxious and impatient for this election to be over.

        And yes, Jamie Whyte is one of those pollies who would like to see Maori TV gone. Remember that painful interview…….. Oh my goodness. +1 to your words on Mihingarangi Forbes.

        • adam 18.3.2.1

          I got my partner to watch that Jamie Whyte interview over the weekend Rosie, and it was worse watching him on a third viewing. He not only looked like a fish out of water, but you have to wonder if he was on something. The glossy eyes, the slightly slurred speech, the inability to put logical connections together. And the slow, very slow reactions to Ms Forbes questions was just odd.

          I’m all for the legalisation of weed, but man, hitting that stuff before being interviewed by the consummate professional Mihingarangi Forbes, would just be foolish.

          • Rosie 18.3.2.1.1

            Lols. I put his strange performance down to nerves and discomfort at being in the presence of a woman who is capable of exposing his faulty logic for all it’s worth.

            Your suggestion is much more interesting though. Could be something in mind alts theory. When John Campbell went to the home of him and his wife the other day they were drinking bubbly in the middle of the day. Probably not just “sparkling wine” either probably the real deal champagne.

          • left for dead 18.3.2.1.2

            That happens to anyone who drinks though the day,whats his policy on pot.?

        • yeshe 18.3.2.2

          @rosie .. oops, made a mistake about the meeting … here’s to next week then !

    • Draco T Bastard 18.4

      After watching Maori TV for a bit and switching back to TV1 and 3 you get the feeling that those chanels are aiming their programmes at a mono culture, and what a dull pasty culture it is they promote.

      IMO, it’s closer to a lack of culture that they promote. Everything’s the same and everything’s Americanised.

  19. nadis 19

    The lack of traction by Mana is interesting. 6%?

    Is there any poll data for Te Tai Tokerau?

    • marty mars 19.1

      6% is not a lack of traction it is a demonstration of traction.

      • Chooky 19.1.1

        +100 Marty Mars….seems like a good traction result to me

        …and apparently a high proportion of Maori also support Winston Peters… so I heard I think on Morning Report yesterday…although I cant find the statistics

        maybe there needs to be an analysis Post on the Maori vote ?

    • Rosie 19.2

      Thats over double the other polls nadis! Don’t know about poll data for Te Tai Tokerau. I imagine that will be available on the night they cover that electorate. I’m really interested to see what in happening in Waiariki…………….

      • nadis 19.2.1

        6% in a Maori seat? About a third of National support? Underwhelming………

        3% support for IMP in the general electorate is orders of magnitude more impressive than 6% in a Maori seat.

        Does Tame Iti throwing in with Maori change the outlook for Mana? I guess it would in BOP/East coast, what about in the other regions?

        • Rosie 19.2.1.1

          That poll result was just for starters for one electorate. On completion of the debates there may be a more comprehensive result. As for the IMP polling at 3%, yes I agree that has more of an impact in the general seats than 6% in the Maori, but it IS interesting……….And how realistic is that 3% ish polling in the general seats anyway? Could be much higher in reality for all we know.

          I’m going to wait till I hear more about Tame Iti’s joining the Maori Party list before I speculate too much. I am a bit worried though – he carries much mana and influence, and yes in those regions you mention, in particular.

          The polls on last nights Te Tai Tonga election coverage showed that the vast majority don’t support the Maori party in a coalition with National. This is of no comfort though. If the Maori Party do retain their seats they will just go with the Nats again, if the Nats have the numbers. As Tame said last night on 3 News “best to be at the table” which is the philosophy of the party. Could be a spanner in the works………….

          • weka 19.2.1.1.1

            Very disappointing about Iti. Still, it’s a timely reminder that Māori have their own politics and they don’t match Pākehā ones, or even make sense to the mainstream.

        • McFlock 19.2.1.2

          Given that Mana’s centre of support is at the other end of the country, it’s not so bad as all that.

  20. adam 20

    I think it’s come to a point that any Christian who votes for national is no longer in touch with what it means to be a Christian. The hate and conceit that national now attack the poor is more than unseemly, it is an attack at core Christian beliefs.

    Thomas Aquinas wrote “Greed is a sin against God, just as all mortal sins, in as much as man condemns things eternal for the sake of temporal things.”

    “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach the Gospel to the poor, to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.” – Luke 4:18–19

    For any Christians who want to take a look further at this, please read these wonderful papers. From the Gospel Manifesto 2014.

    http://presbyterian.org.nz/speaking-out/resources-for-speaking-out/discussion-papers/gospel-manifesto-2014

    • Chooky 20.1

      +100…yes agree adam…no REAL CHRISTIAN would vote NACTIONAL!

      • Pukish Rogue 20.1.1

        You’ve highlighted the major failing of the left, the belief that people can be pigeon-holed into groups and those groups must vote a certain way therefore you get amazement when people designated into a group go against what they’re “supposed” to do

        • NickS 20.1.1.1

          🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

          Yes, because that’s so totes not a general failing of most people 🙄

          • Puckish Rogue 20.1.1.1.1

            Not really, the left believe Maori, Polynesians, the working class must all vote for the left and if they dare say otherwise the left act like they’ve committed an act of betrayal

            • The Mad Butchers probably the best example

            Rather then accept that people have individual views and act accordingly…

            • NickS 20.1.1.1.1.1

              🙄

              Yes, because you don’t get multiple cases of people on the right saying the same thing, assuming that people similar to “them” must vote the way they do. Albeit I’m more versed in US examples, but it’s fucking universal human behaviour stemming from ye olde tribalism. I see it every time I bother going through the forums on steam for games, or any cultural stuff such as movies and music, the assumption that just because “I” like/dislike it and “I” maps to all these other people, they should like/dislike it as well.

              But hey, why bother dealing with reality when you can slag off the left and try and score points oh brainless one?

              • adam

                NickS, PR lives in the world of assumption. He can’t tell the difference between a theological argument and political one. He thinks his propaganda infused thoughts are of his own free will. For PR the world is best defined by, the left is always wrong.

                But worst of all, PR is an broken record of sad one liners from the 80’s.

            • Rodel 20.1.1.1.1.2

              PR
              In the party votes of the last election 31323 or 84% of Maori votes went to Labour and a mere 5894 or 16% wanted National. More than five times as many voted for Labour.

              The ‘act of betrayal’ you mention was committed by the rightfully elected Maori Party members who wrongfully went against the wishes of their own people and colluded with National and ACT.

              It’s nothing to do with what the left believe- It’s what the voters believe- or should have faith that when they cast their vote it will be taken seriously.

    • Ad 20.2

      Lovely resource; thank you from my Christian soul.

  21. Puckish Rogue 21

    I don’t suppose anyones interested in knowing about Hagers lies but if you are:

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/exclusive-another-hager-fisher-lie-exposed/

    You lot might be interested

    • Chooky 21.1

      God NO!….who would go looking on whaleoil?….the oil contamination is toxic and awful!

      • Puckish Rogue 21.1.1

        Also helps when you only want one side of the story as well eh you should look though its full OIA documents and stuff

      • Rosie 21.1.2

        Exactly Chooky. What an absurd suggestion by Pukey. As if anyone wants to hear what that lying, toxic, evil, scheming bag of slime has to say. How Pukey can support Slater is beyond me.

        • Chooky 21.1.2.1

          Pukey needs to get off the cooking sherry ….drink some fine single malt whiskey and VOTE CUNLIFFE!

        • Pukish Rogue 21.1.2.2

          I know its a forlorn hope but why not see what hes put up and make up your own mind rather then take as gospel what Hager says (the reason being of course that it suits the lefts narrative to believe what Hager says and to disregard anything Slater says)

          • Chooky 21.1.2.2.1

            Pukey you really are getting desperate if you want me to read what is on THAT site!

            • Pukish Rogue 21.1.2.2.1.1

              Getting the other side of the story? Yeah crazy though huh

              • McFlock

                why bother seeing what a degenerate, compulsive liar-for hire has to say? It’s worthless – any similarity with reality can only be purely coincidental.

              • Chooky

                Pukey once I went there half by mistake to check something out….and guess what? ….i was repelled 10 feet backwards across the room….such was my horror at what i saw !

                ….I dont want to go there again!…it is not good for the health or the spirit…or the soul !

                …LIFE is BEAUTIFUL ( but not on Whaleoil)

          • McFlock 21.1.2.2.2

            puckish,

            If you need to whine and beg, you’re a fucking useless linkwhore.

            • weka 21.1.2.2.2.1

              “If you need to whine and beg, you’re a fucking useless linkwhore.”

              But if he gets paid it’s probably still worth it 🙂

          • Draco T Bastard 21.1.2.2.3

            The person at the centre of National’s Dirty Tricks and Lies campaign puts up a post exclaiming that the person who caught him in his lies with evidence is lying?

            Yeah, I think you’re the one with a problem – pure gullibility.

            • blue leopard 21.1.2.2.3.1

              +1 DTB

              It is on a par with the media going to ask the PM about a book that posits National are conducting dirty politics in a manner that allows the PM to retain a ‘nice-guy’ persona -that it deliberately separates him from the dirt – allows for ‘plausible deniability’.

              ….Then, when the PM predictably responds ‘no nuffink to do with me, I am not connected in any way. I am not responsible, I am merely the Prime Minister of this country – the head of the GCSB I might add…. it was my office, those who work under me….my office that is…not me… or someone else……Labour…I mean the left, yes it was the left’s fault. Nope, not me. I wasn’t there, I don’t remember, I didn’t read it, I didn’t, see, hear or say nuffink, in fact… I know nothing. I am Mr Nice Guy….remember….Wanna beer?…. and palease can-we-move-right-along-to-some-real-issues-now…like singing my praises, discussing how fractured the Labour party is and how they need a new leader, like we used to (oh those where the days my friend) and what a great and united team I lead ….cough….nixt quistion please?”

              Why does it still astonish me?

      • Naki man 21.1.3

        That comment from someone who visits toxic Bummer Bradburys frothing sewer,
        you have to be joking.

        • Chooky 21.1.3.1

          Martyn is a lovely boy …I know his Mother

          ( you dont know what you are talking about Naki man !…I bet you are a friend of Judith’s)

          ‘Crusher Collins caught out lying about Privacy Commissioner – is this her last, last, last chance again?’

          By Martyn Bradbury / August 27, 2014

          “Is Judith lying about being cleared by the Privacy Commissioner to denigrate a public servant part of her last, last, last chance or is this a new last, last, last chance?…

          • Naki man 21.1.3.1.1

            Cooky you need to stop drinking from Bummers frothing sewer it has poisoned your mind.
            I don’t know Crusher and Bummers mother might be a nice lady but that doesn’t stop her son from being a toxic twat.

            • Chooky 21.1.3.1.1.1

              lol…Naki man …this is why i go over to Martyn Bradbury’s the other side….for up to date considered political analysis ( you should try it)

              ‘A Matter of Whether John Key is Credible’

              By Selwyn Manning / August 23, 2014

              In reality, John Key is the last man standing, he speaks directly to the reasonably minded New Zealand voter. From this platform they will be asked to judge for themselves whether their Prime Minister is credible… or not. Game on, or game over, they will be the judge.

              [deleted]

              [lprent: Copyright violation and just bad manners choking the comments feed with someone elses thoughts..

              Next time I see one of these I will just coin toss twice to see how long your ban will be. 1 day, 1 week, 6 months or a year? While I am sure that they probably won’t mind at TDB, it is bad practise and bad manners to dump whole posts on another site. A para on why you think it is important. A few quoted teaser paras. A link. That is what the net is for,

              This is your only warning. ]

              • Chooky

                derrrh…i thought that had gone into a black hole…now it has reappeared with a dire warning!

                …note I always reference anything I put here very carefully …so i very much doubt “copyright violation”…as you say over on TDB they “probably won’t mind” their post came in this direction

                but “bad practice and bad manners”…well I guess I will take a break

                • lprent

                  If you link to it and sell it,then people will click the link.

                  This site is for your thoughts, not somewhere else.

                • karol

                  Actually, I understood that it is a copyright violation to post the whole of someone’s article somewhere else, even if referenced. That’s why in our posts we only use extracts from news articles and other blogs. Posting the whole thing can mean people not going to the other sites to read it.

                  I did point out the usual practice to you a couple of days ago when you posted another whole TDB post.

                  Apart from anything else, I’d already read the whole of that post on TDB a couple of days previously. Posting the whole post just disrupts the flow of discussion. I’d have been more interested in reading your response to the post, and why it was relevant to the TS discussion.

                  Edit: NZ yahoo answers. Best answer:

                  Is is copyright infringement to copy & paste a news article on facebook?
                  Even if you give the link to the place you got it from, and you clearly state that you didn’t write it yourself?
                  […]
                  the owner of the article MUST give you permission, not the persons company they work for, not there boss, the person that wrote it must give you consent.

                  • Chooky

                    …actually I was going to edit it…cut it back and make a comment.

                    ( I often edit and make comments right up until the last minute…sometimes i even delete the whole contribution all together, which was quite a possablity in this case because i was reacting to provocation )

                    i hadnt finished with it!….but before i could do anything more it disappeared into a black hole…much to my surprise!…I presumed I had been edited off the board!..,Surveilled….Censored

                    Interesting….such sensitivity

                    …and as regarding “violating copyright”….I am sure Selwyn Manning would like the widest possible dissemination…it may even encourage people to check out the website he contributes to…this can only be a good thing imo

        • Rodel 21.1.3.2

          NM
          “toxic Bummer Bradburys frothing sewer,”
          Boy you must have salivated when you invented that charming and oh so clever phrase.(needs an apostrophe though).

    • Weepus beard 21.2

      Another OIA out to Slater in record time. Looks like he’s still being looked after by Judith Collins.

    • Lanthanide 21.3

      Very first comment points out that the whole thing is a diversion by Slater. Poor showing.

    • Tony's ego 21.4

      Ah, Puckish Rogue. Living proof that you really can fool some of the people all of the time.

    • NickS 21.5

      🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

      Posts link from known scumbag and lair for hire, who despite claiming Hager is lying still hasn’t filed a defamation suit in light of the negative impact of Hager’s Dirty Politics on Slater’s [insert correct word here, ‘Nick can’t recall the right word :herpderp:].

      • Puckish Rogue 21.5.1

        Yeah who needs the other side of the story when you can just have Hagers opinion

        • RedLogix 21.5.1.1

          … and a pile of documents from the National Party itself.

          (Besides Slater has terminally disqualified himself from having an opinion.)

        • karol 21.5.1.2

          Hager’s book is the other side of the story to the one that has been dished up to us regularly in the MSM for the last few years.

        • NickS 21.5.1.3

          Which so far hasn’t been refuted my any reliable source.

          And again, if Hager was lying, why hasn’t Slater et al filed for defamation of character? NZ defamation law, while not perfect, is still quite clear in such a case as this and yet Slater hasn’t bothered with it despite protesting that Hager is lying.

          Of course, given you history, evidently such a point is far too hard for you :smug:

          • Naki man 21.5.1.3.1

            Hager was careful to says things like “in my opinion” rather than state something as fact so he could cover his arse and not get sued

            • NickS 21.5.1.3.1.1

              🙄

              It doesn’t work that way numpty, you can still get sued for putting forth an opinion if can be shown to false and cause damage.

              I can haz non-idiot right wingers for once?

            • McFlock 21.5.1.3.1.2

              what about all the emails he quoted?
              Were those faked?

            • North 21.5.1.3.1.3

              If you had half a brain NakiMoan you’d know that perfunctorily prefacing an actionable defamation with the words “in my opinion” is on its own meaningless as a defence.

              When will you absorb that the words Hager published are not his words ? They are the words of your fellow foul old ‘masters of the universe’.

    • Murray Olsen 21.6

      What a load of shit. He is lying about what Hager wrote, and the Whalespew Army, who hang like ticks from his scrotum, are lapping it up. Hager has made it clear that Gusher did not arrange for the prisoner transfer. It was someone else, probably high up in Corrections. In itself this is very worrying.

      I cannot get over how thick and deluded the Whalespew army actually are. How do they remember to breathe?

  22. joe90 22

    Well said Mr Bennett.

    .

    .
    OPINION: The National Party advertisement shows a sleek, expensive, racing hull manned by a team of handsome heroes, in smart, expensive, blue uniforms.

    The opposition are seen as dumpy persons clad in motley red or green, muddling about in an unseaworthy little tub.

    Good, clean, pre-election fun- poking perhaps, but sadly it betrays a condescending attitude much more divisive and scornful of New Zealand society than the presumed bickering in the opposition’s boat.

    There is no excuse for such class arrogance. Success, we are persuaded, lies with the golden youth of our nation, the sort of affluent young athletes who row as a hobby.

    Proud as we are of our Olympic champions, they are not the average Kiwi.

    A better nautical image for Aotea-Roa might be a double- hulled Polynesian canoe, a waka hourua, each hull separate but bound together, ensuring stability and a shared destination through negotiation and collaboration.

    Crew could wear red and green in puerile political symbolism, but I would much prefer to show distinctive Maori, Samoan, Indian, European and Asian faces to truly represent our multicultural society. Rite, ko te rite! Rite, ko te rite! Tiaia, a tiaia. Toki hika toki! Altogether, altogether now.

    ARTHUR BENNETT

    Hastings

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/letters-to-the-editor/10427870/Better-nautical-imagery-available

    • nadis 22.1

      Except its not about a “better nautical image for Aotea-Roa”. It’s actually called political advertising for the National Party. Next thing Arthur will be criticising Weet-bix and Gillette commercials.

      • joe90 22.1.1

        (︶︹︺)

        • vto 22.1.1.1

          I agree with that letter writer joe90. The ad inadvertently reinforces all that is wrong with the current government and the attitudes of its people.

          It suggests that you need to be one of them to be a “winner” and that if you are not one of them then you are a “loser”. It splits the population. It is not inclusive. It is negative. It is spiteful.

          It is nasty.

          It is Dirty politics writ large.

          The National Party type people will still not be able to see this – they have become soaked in their own indoctrination. No wonder they are surprised by the hatred being shown towards them right now – they are blinkered fools suffering under the obesity of their greed and selfishness.

          • Weepus beard 22.1.1.1.1

            Agree that it splits the population. This has crept into NZ society since the National party took office. and is the reason for the bitterness in this campaign.

            John Key constantly reinforces this with policy: assets sales taking something once owned by everyone and selling it cheap to “winners”. He also does it with comments such as calling a 93% rejection by the primary teachers union as a “stunt” intimating they are “losers”.

            • vto 22.1.1.1.1.1

              Yep, absolutely…

              … and reinforced by Key’s outrageous refusal to condemn Slater.

              Key exemplifies all that is wrong with this portion of the New Zealand population and the attitude it leads. Key is 100% Pure Toxicity.

        • nadis 22.1.1.2

          looks like a sumo wrestler having a nap…..

    • tricledrown 22.2

      Nationals ad =Skullduggery

  23. Te Reo Putake 23

    Trelise Cooper does the right thing:

    APOLOGY

    I unreservedly apologise and regret any offence I have caused through using Native American Head Dress in my catwalk show.

    I genuinely respect and honour all cultures, races and religions.
    It was never my intention to disrespect another culture.

    It is my hope that through my mistake and ignorance, like me, people now know and are aware of the Sacredness of the head dress to Native Americans.

    To those who I have offended, I sincerely apologise.

    Dame Trelise Cooper

    • yeshe 23.1

      The right thing to apologise, yes. But what a surprising shame she didn’t know enough not to do it in the first place.

      • Lanthanide 23.1.1

        It basically would have been something along the lines of “Look at those headdresses! They’re great! I’ve never seen them in fashion before so this would be a new innovative thing I could do!”.

        Of course she didn’t stop to find out why they hadn’t been in fashion before.

        • weka 23.1.1.1

          They have been used in fashion before, and other designers have been slammed for it. It’s hard to believe that Trelise Cooper was unaware of this. Her apology seems genuine enough albeit pretty white priviliged, although as someone on twitter pointed out, even the apologies are recycled.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 23.1.1.1.1

            Her “apology” isn’t an apology, it’s an insult to anyone who thinks Cooper’s actions are unwise. I’m not offended by her actions, they just lower my opinion of her, such as it is. The faux apology lowers it further.

            If she were sincere she’d apologise for something she did (‘I’m sorry I employed a crass racist stereotype’, for example), not the imagined pain in other people’s minds.

          • Chooky 23.1.1.1.2

            well I guess it is similar to the French using the moko and Maori tattoos as a fashion statement…not necessarily inherently racist or to give offense…in fact a mark of admiration and fascination for an ethnic and exotic art form…but ignorance shown of the real proscribed spiritual and cultural significance

            imo ….where it is used with a full understanding and in defiance of the proscribed cultural specialness… then it becomes lack of respect, insulting and appropriation….and possibly racist

            …what about Maori design?…is it legitimate for non Maori to use this ?…koru, Hei matua, tiki,manaia, toki, roimata, kowhaiwhai?…..or swamp kauri treasured by the Maori for Maori sculpture?…or pounamu?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 23.2

      It isn’t an apology.

      She isn’t responsible for the thoughts, feelings nor the “offence” of others, she’s responsible for her own behaviour.

      • crocodill 23.2.1

        As with all things internet, the answer is yes, no, and maybe.

        “”This is appalling offensive cultural appropriation,” said Morgan Ashworth.”

        I agree, except not with the appalling, or the necessarily offensive, as OAB points out.

        “”Utterly shameful, racist and ignorant,” commented Lisa Cullimore Ryder.”

        Not shameful or racist, but somewhat ignorant.

        “People were similarly outraged on Twitter, brandishing Ms Cooper as ‘offensive’ and ‘racist’.”

        Not definitively, I would guess her not to be racist at all, but to prove it would require testing not often done on victims of the Online Politically Correct crowd. How would we prove that the electrical impulses of Trelise Cooper’s brain would light up in the same places when shown a small mouse or insect, for example, or the picture of a Native American? Not the kind of testing that can be done from a seat in front of a PC monitor.

        Prejudice is alive and well though, and malice, and ignorance, and ignorance mixed with privilege, social status or celebrity worship, and that will find targets of convenience as required and cause horrific damage to people. She may not be entirely responsible for the feelings of others, but offense is triggered by external factors, so she’s not entirely blameless either. More a case of stepping in a turd and unwittingly walking it into a neighbour’s house because she didn’t know about what’s in farm paddocks, than purposely scooping it up and wiping it on their face with glee.

        If she was American (Native or not) there would be contexts where it could be neither racism or appropriation. Since she is Kiwi, she has learned the hard way to be a bit more mindful.

        • weka 23.2.1.1

          There are different kinds of racism. That she was unaware of what she was doing doesn’t stop her from being racist. It’s pretty simple – appropriating culture applies across the board. If you don’t get that then that’s racist.

          • tinfoilhat 23.2.1.1.1

            I think you’re applying the wrong terminology, what she did may certainly have been unthinking and culturally insensitive, I disagree that is was racist according to what I understand is the meaning of the word.

            ‘The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.’

            • weka 23.2.1.1.1.1

              That’s one definition, there are others too.

              • tinfoilhat

                Can you enlighten me, I’m always interested in how the use and meaning of language evolves over time.

                • weka

                  google ‘institutional racism’, that will give an overview of how racism plays out within structures that is different from the personal belief racism you referred to. You could try googling something like ‘racism 101’ or ‘anti-racism’ too, probably will take you to US discussion on racism, but you could try ‘anti-racism’ +nz. Reading writing on decolonisation in NZ is pretty enlightening as well. Sorry, am a bit brain fried tonight to dig up some direct links.

                  In the case of Cooper, I think her white privilege prevents her from making a proper apology. It’s likely she doesn’t get the depth of her ignorance yet. She most likely doesn’t hold thoughts of white people are superior to Indians, but her world view will be supporting idea about race and ethnicity that are deeply entrenched in society and have huge negative impacts on people of ethnicities that aren’t the dominant culture. We can call the cultural insensitivity, but I think it goes far beyond a personal failing to understand a mistake.

                  I was heartened by the overwhelming number of people that took her to task on twitter compared to those that couldn’t see what the fuss was about. The cynic in my wonders how much of her apology was generated by fear of negative feedback. She needs to go steps further.

      • weka 23.2.2

        “It isn’t an apology.

        She isn’t responsible for the thoughts, feelings nor the “offence” of others, she’s responsible for her own behaviour.”

        I cringe whenever I read statements like “I genuinely respect and honour all cultures, races and religions.”

        Obviously not.

        • Chooky 23.2.2.1

          she should have put her models in the Pope’s head gear…and in the Pope’s dress and jewellery ….until that old Queen changes Vatican contraceptive law and Vatican sexist law against women ….a fashion statement should be made ….imo

          • tinfoilhat 23.2.2.1.1

            How about in a muslim or hindu religious garb ?

            …… or does your righteous bigotry stop at the catholic church ?

            • Chooky 23.2.2.1.1.1

              it stops where religious institutionalised sexism and racism and bigotry stops…generally found in patriarchal monotheism ( i am with Richard Dawkins on this)

              • tinfoilhat

                OK, it just seems strange that you always seem to target christianity (most often Catholicism with your diatribes.

                • Chooky

                  i dont target Christianity as such …only where it involves institutionalised and systemmatic sexism , racism and abuse

  24. Naki man 24

    I see that bottom feeding scum Tom Scott is doing his best to promote a rape culture in our country
    I hope is charged and convicted.

    • vto 24.1

      And then along comes Naki man highlighting all that is muddleheaded….

      Scott does not promote a culture, he reflects a culture. A culture generated and fostered by the likes of you and your politics.

  25. Naki man 25

    VTO You are an apologist for scum. You know nothing about my politics, Scott is promoting rape culture and threatening to kill. This type of behaviour would only be acceptable to a mutton head like yourself.

    [RL: Take it up with Mr Scott. You are in completely the wrong place.]

    • vto 25.1

      John Key is scum.

      John Key stands beside Cameron Slater.

      John Key is scum.

      Think fool think

  26. mickysavage 26

    There is a Reid Research poll out tonight. The Conservatives appear to have breached the embargo by claiming they are at 4.6%. If this is the result it will be very interesting to see who has seeped support. My pick is National, some right wingers with morals have fled elsewhere.

    If this was the result on election night and they do not win a seat I would be very pleased.

    National must be scratching its head right now …

    • Tracey 26.1

      Explains why until today Colin Craig has remained silent… he wanted to wait to see if he became a contender for national to throw him a seat…

    • Karen 26.2

      Over at Pundit Tim Watkins is hinting that there may be a smallish decline for National but nothing dramatic:
      http://pundit.co.nz/content/if-this-was-labour-wed-be-calling-it-a-mess

      My hope is that both NZ First and the Conservatives get 4.9%. I am not convinced that Winston won’t go with National to “clean them up.” If Te Ururoa Flavell and David Seymour win their seats, that will just make things more difficult for National to work with NZ First however.

      • nadis 26.2.1

        Karen – you need to understand how MMP works. NZF and Conservatives getting 4.9% is actually a fantastic outcome for National. Assume the following vote:

        Nats 46%
        Lab 30%
        Greens 10%
        IMP 4% (but win 1 an electorate seat)
        United Future 0% (but win 1 electorate seat)
        Maori Party 1% (but win one elctorate seat)
        ACT 0% (but win one electorte seat)
        NZF and UF get 4.5% each and no electorate seat

        On that vote, there would be 123 seats in parliament.

        Of the 120 electorate seats National would have 61.
        Labour: 40
        greens 13
        imp 6

        plus 3 overhang seats for ACT, UF and MP.

        You need 62 seats to govern, Nats + Act + UF = 63.

        The short version is this:

        Overhang seats will likely only occur on the right.
        Overhang seats on the right obviously favour national.
        Wasted vote (ie NZF and CP in my example) favour National as long as their vote is greater than Lab+ Greens.
        Low voter turn out favours national.

        I don’t have a really strong political axe to grind either way and you can make valid arguments for different outcomes than I suggest above, but fundamentally, if you want a left government the only high percentage way to make that happen is to have Labour + Greens > say 48% and even then it isnt assured due to at least 3 maybe as many as 4 or 5 overhang seats on the right. I sense that the higher IMP get in the polls, the more middle voters will leak away from Labour and the Greens. To the right, IMP fulfills the same role as ACT does for the left. A bogeyman that hurts the centre right or centre left respectively. Act drives soft nats away while the left prospers, IMP drives soft centre left voters away while the right prospers.

        • Karen 26.2.1.1

          Ah, but if the Conservatives get 4.9% and NZFirst the same the National Party will not be getting 46% – more likely it will be around 40%

          • nadis 26.2.1.1.1

            not based on the TV3 poll tonight which is very similar to the example I used. NZF and CP get 10.9% and Nats still 45% not the 40 % you suggest.. An alternative headline for the poll would be “Labour support decimated.”

            Decimated in the true sense of the word – 1 in 10 labour voters has left the building on this poll. While the headlines focus on the drop in Nat support and the close balance on seats, Labour support was down more in absolute terms (-2.6 vs 2.5) and in relative terms almost twice the loss of support.

    • ScottGN 26.3

      Gower confirms this on TV3’s news page. He also says the Hager book has given the election campaign “a good shake” whatever that means.

    • weka 26.4

      Bomber has a post up about Craig and Peters cannabilising each others votes and both failing to make the threshold 😀

  27. Tracey 27

    Some stuff NOT included in Hager’s book, relating to Carrick Graham

    “he material Rawshark supplied to this paper supports Hager’s conclusions Whale Oil was paid by Facilitate Communications boss Carrick Graham to run disguised attacks against the rivals of Facilitate clients. But Slater denied he provided cash for comment.

    “I’m not being paid to write blog posts about people. I’ve done nothing wrong or illegal and somehow I’m the enemy and the crook who breached everyone’s privacy is a hero?”

    Graham, a long-term friend of Slater who has attracted controversy for his work for the tobacco industry, this week refused to discuss “that particular book”. “I don’t talk about who I work with, who my clients are or what I do with them. I run a private company and that’s what it is,” he said.

    Although some of the material has been covered in Dirty Politics, significant chunks refer to matters yet to be reported. Hager concluded a nexus existed between Slater, Graham and Food and Grocery Council chief executive Katherine Rich, that was used to surreptitiously attack opponents of corporate members of the council. New evidence shows:

    An email from Slater in January 2014 in which the blogger wrote “December hits coin” and invoiced Facilitate Communication $6555.

    A series of emails the same month from Graham to Slater, headed “Hit” and sometimes including “KR,” including draft posts savagely critical of council members’ commercial rivals or political opponents. Shortly afterwards Slater posted articles – nearly identical to Graham’s draft – on Whale Oil.

    An unreported email exchange between Graham, Slater and Rich discussing the political leanings of the Generation Zero climate-change lobby group, concluding with Graham saying: “That’s our job. They’re on the target list.”
    Scoop.co.nz

    • Flipnz 27.2

      “I don’t talk about who I work with, who my clients are or what I do with them. I run a private company and that’s what it is,” he said.

      A private company messing in public affairs.

      • Tracey 27.2.1

        Of course, just like the right squeal about government staying out of business… and Key talked sternly to AIrNZ over domestic airfares at election time letting people think he was trying to get them lowered when he was shaking their hands on a profit well got and hopefully his blind trust has shares…

        Government out of business is never followed by business out of government.

        • dv 27.2.1.1

          AND what about the Power prices!!!!

        • Flipnz 27.2.1.2

          The reality is that they are inseparable. Though that was probably once thought about church and state.

          In a democracy government has to govern business.

          Ideally business should be kept out of government though the opposite seems to be the trend.

  28. Minarch 28

    Will ‘Dirty Politics’ Bring Down New Zealand’s Prime Minister? VICE NEWS

    Just one month until the New Zealand election and the country’s ruling party is feeling nuclear-level media fallout from a book written using hacked information. Political parties are trying to get policies out amid a media storm caused by ugly revelations in Dirty Politics, authored by internationally renowned investigative journalist Nicky Hager. The 138-page book was released almost two weeks ago and focusses around the long-armed attack strategies used by the National party to belittle their political opponents while retaining a smiling facade

    http://www.vice.com/en_au/read/the-new-zealand-hacker-who-may-bring-down-the-prime-minister

  29. the voter 29

    ISNT the history of NZ just great the biggest fishery in the world and we fuck our country with Dairying cause the Asians and the Russians have stolen OUR FISH and now the Asians want to own us completely Fuck em
    REALITY CHECK GIVE US BACK OUR COUNTRY

  30. aerobubble 30

    Three strikes binds the hands of Judges. A libertarian however wants to be able to put their case before the judge, influence them. So the howler that ACT are libertarian is a joke. Three strikes is automatic state interference in the courts. Its wrong, its authoritarianism.

  31. Puckish Rogue 31

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/labours_latest_billboard.html

    • Its rare when a politician says the truth but its maybe a tad too honest for an election campaign…
    • ScottGN 33.1

      I always like it when you feel it necessary to repost the link PR. It’s means everybody sensibly decided to ignore the crap you put up in the first place.

  32. Puckish Rogue 34

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/labour-cutting-jobs-next-wait/

    • Its rare to have a politician be honest and truthful, he should be applauded 😉
  33. Rosie 35

    Right! Fess up thieves!

    Who nicked our fabulous “Hey Peter! We don’t want a ‘willing seller’ MP for Ohariu” sign we had up at the intersection of Perth St and Ngaio Gorge Road in Ngaio?

    Looks like this one but with the above wording on it:

    http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=61648

    Show some respect and leave our signs where they are. We don’t go around pulling down Nat and UF signs and expect others to play fair too. Like you thief, we have a right to express our political voice, and you try to deny us that voice.

    Those signs are a labour of love, taking about 3 hours each to make. We are a community based group and don’t have wads of $$$ to get sign writers to provide a limitless supply of billboards. If you care about people having a right to express their collective views do the decent thing and return our sign to where it was.

  34. Gosman 36

    Went to a NZEI organised event for Hutt South last night. Almost got Trevor to admit that Labour agrees with the Greens 40% proposed top tax rate. That should please some of you guys ;-).

    • Enough is Enough 36.1

      The only way to push Labour where they wants to go is return a strong Green party.

  35. Paul 37

    The National Party running polls through its friends in the media at Fairfax
    Are you in favour of tax cuts?
    65% say no.

  36. weka 38

    GP encouraging people to early vote. Political strategy or getting people out to vote?

  37. Guesting 39

    On page 25 of Dirty Politics. Feeling retrospectively trolled by monikers Mr_Blobby, Cullen’s Sidekick, etc, and anyone who used the hyperbole from Whale Oil site.

    Is there a glossary of the hyperbole from WO I can refer to, so I can spend my time ignoring such sock puppet trolls?

  38. Ad 40

    Easily 200 people in central Auckland at a transport debate with Brownlee, Twyford, Genter, Act, NZFirst.

    Very civil and respectful.

    Organised by Campaign For Better Transport and TransportBlog so not a huge number of votes to be changed here.

    Brownlee says next harbour crossing starts 2025.

    • Tracey 40.1

      Thanks Ad

      Any discussion of backtracking by Govt on date for contribution to rail loop?

  39. RedBaronCV 41

    Meet the candidate evenings. Where abouts are the wellington ones advertised?

  40. greywarbler 42

    @ Rich
    Connecting to a previous comment on the advantages of small states forming associations, started off with mention of Scotland.

    Open mike 24/08/2014

    There was an interesting talk on Luxembourg and how it keeps its position although such a small state. It was in a talk by Jules Older a Yankiwi based in California.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/nights
    Little Luxembourg ( 20′ 38″ )
    19:12 ‘Dr Digital’ a.k.a Jules Older on how Luxembourg has not let it’s relative smallness be a disadvantage in becoming a successful nation (and what New Zealand could learn from this).

  41. Rich 43

    This is interesting;

    If you start at 3:00 and take special notice of 3:09-3:13, Collins and Key.

    (why could I not post this on the Collins thread?)

  42. Rich 44

    I’ve tried to post up a link to a you tube video about 3 times. It won’t post, but if I post the same post again it says that I’ve already posted it.

    Is there a problem with you tube links?

  43. disturbed 45

    Nadis the Nat’s spinner buggered up his/her crappy poll predictions again, why do we even read that shit.

    Paddy has left taking the power 20th at this rate, so go cry in your martini Nadis.

    Winston’s back, and wont go with you evil mate Gonekey.

  44. nadis 46

    Grey warbler. If we wanted to be successful like Luxembourg we would need to set up a banking sector that circumvented anti money laundering laws laws.

  45. nadis 47

    Grey warbler. If we wanted to be successful like Luxembourg we would need to set up a banking sector that circumvented anti money laundering laws laws.

    • greywarbler 47.1

      @nadis
      There was more to Luxembourg’s success as a country than money laundering, though that has been important, and possibly still is though lessening. Did you listen to the whole radio interview? I put up the link so that we could find out things that we didn’t know, or think we know, already.

  46. nadis 48

    Disturbed. Apt name given your obvious lack of mental ability. I’m hardly a Nat spinner and wasn’t making poll predictions. I was merely illustrating how the vagaries of mmp van throw up some counterintuitive effects that can be helpful to either side, but given where overhang seats are likely to be will generally favourite the right. If that’s too intellectual for you I apologize.

  47. millsy 49

    Well, that went well didnt it?

    We now are now a few redneck votes away from Garth McVicar being in Parliament.

    • Tracey 49.1

      I KNOW!

      BUT Colin wont go into government with people who lie and cheat like Key and Collins, will he?

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    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

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